TSmithfield asked how was peace possible when Russia does things like this ?
I responded by saying we have apparently come to an easy accomodation with allies who do things far more egregious than this:examples given, and somehow a peace was found.
Result? very predictable cries about "whataboutism" Frankly guys, that is worn out and lacking any kind of credible argument
Once again you will shriek Russian propaganda!! when I post this next link
Even if it is true that the Ukrainians shot down a Russian missile (how dreadful of them), how does that change anything?
After all, the Russians were targeting the Ukrainian power grid in this attack, amongst other things. That sort of action in the freezing conditions now prevailing in Ukraine could even have a worse effect in terms of human suffering.
The Russians are very aware of the suffering they are likely to cause one way or another with this sort of behaviour targeting civilian infrastructure. So, in no way does anything you say justify the Russian action.
The fact that you cite RT just confirms our suspicions about you.
Yes Jenny , its hugely profitable, I've made 3000 roubles a month at least, and have a time share in fabulous dachas in Crimea.There's never any difficulty getting the money sent over either, it comes packed in those Russian dolls
Oh the stories I could tell you !Dancing with Putin at my wedding, the fun!,the singing! the barbecues at the Kremlin, the chess games with Lavrov !
And no one has ever found me out (but there are those who've had their dark suspicions!)
Whether or not you work for a Russian troll farm, or not is irrelevant really. The way you slurp up to the Russian war machine, the effect is the same.
Well let's face it. Your continued appeasement for Russian atrocities does sound very much like the mantra of a useful idiot (and I use those words carefully as I was well aquainted with one in the 1960's who pestered my father relentlessly with Soviet propaganda). I know how they operated and what their belief systems were. They were totally down the rabbit hole of Soviet lies and misinformation regularly sent to them from the Russian consulate as it was then.
My father was the President of a Union for over 20 years so they were particularly keen to get him on their side and ferment trouble. They didn't like the fact that he ignored them, and instead the Union was able to gain very good pay rates and working conditions for the members of his union without the need for constant strikes and stop works. On one occasion a National Party MP was heard to say in the House how appalled he was that these workers were earning almost as much as he!
If only those pesky Ukrainians would see just how benign and helpful these continued bombardments form Russia are, and stop trying to shoot them down. Everything would be much so much better.
It says a lot about you that you can brush off the horror of this situation with some sort of wierd whataboutism justification of it.
But, putting that aside, why would the people of Ukraine be the slightest bit interested in doing any sort of peace deal with Russia when Russia behaves like this? Especially since the horror of this situation will likely just motivate the west to supply more and heavier weapons to Ukraine, thus increasing the likelihood of a Ukrainian victory.
If you really want to see a peaceful resolution to this conflict then you should be condemning this sort of behaviour not excusing it.
Likewise, the siege of Constantinople in 1451 was a particularly brutal affair.
And what about those nasty Romans sowing salt on the ruins of Carthage in 145BCE – there are plenty of examples which can be used to excuse present day barbarity.
Peace is possible .,it has to be .Vietnam has apparently forgiven the genocidal assaults of the Vietnam war, or as they call it , the Resistance war against America
In the face of our own barbarity, it seems we forgive and forget very easily
Where is the consistency?
Why aren’t we arming the Palestinians and applying sanctions to Israel, not that I would recommend that
War is disgusting, and should be avoided at all costs, peace agreements implemented, but there are precious few anti war activists left anywhere in the west , not when so many livelihoods are dependent on war and other people get to do the bloodshedding
What I don't condemn is people wanting to defend their country, homes, and families against unwarranted agression from larger nations. So, in this case, I condemn war by condemning Russia.
But, I guess you will just say the Russians are acting in "self defence" or that the US did it therefore Russia can do it, or something equally inane.
Further to that, "condemning war" in the way that you would have it in this conflict would mean allowing the Russian army to roll in with its tanks uncontested and Ukraine capitulating in order to avoid war.
I've already said it .The war could have been prevented .The Minsk peace agreements signed between the LPR, DPR, and Ukraine was a path to peace, but as Poroshenko boasted, there was never any intention of implementing it , and the plan was to take Donbas by force
Then you have no understanding of why there is such tension between the eastern provinces (formerly Russian territory which Ukraine expanded into under Lenin in the 20's)mainly orthodox and culturally Russian , and the western parts, where you are more likely to encounter monuments to Nazi collaborators like Bandera , and more likely to belong to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church
and the western parts, where you are more likely to encounter monuments to Nazi collaborators like Bandera , and more likely to belong to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church
Your modus operandi is to go around and round in circles repeating the same nonsense that has already been debunked many times.
It has already been pointed out on numerous occasions that the far right only got around 2% of the vote in the last Ukrainian election. So, it obviously isn't much more of a problem than most countries.
If you are really that vexed about Nazis, then you should be really worried about Nazis in Russia. Especially as it appears Putin has been trying to manipulate them for his own ends, as the article points out.
From the link:
“What has received less coverage is the Putin regime’s own record of collaboration with far-right extremists.”
So, it looks more like a continuation of Russian agression following the annexation of Crimea than anything else.
Does the name Igor Girkin mean anything to you. Pity about that Malaysian passenger plane that was shot down. But I guess you would blame the Ukrainians for that as well.
Yes, Igor Girkin aka Strelkov, a nationalist and a nutter, banned from eastern Ukraine by Putin,and ever since a strident critic of Putin , because he thinks Putin is a softie and appeaser of the west.
He has only become critical of Putin over recent times. And was actually quite popular prior to the downing of the Malaysian plane which was terminal for his career.
From the previous link:
While leading a group of separatist militants into Ukraine in the 2014 Siege of Sloviansk, Girkin gained influence and attention, being appointed to the position of Minister of Defense in the Donetsk People's Republic, a puppet state of Russia.[4][5][6]
groan the Dresden and Tokyo attacks were 80 years ago now, Korea three quarters of a century ago and Rolling Thunder for all it's tonnage of bombs dropped was not an area bombing offensive. This sort of tedious whatabboutism is mired in a miserable ignorance of the last eighty years.
The thing is, targets like Dresden and Tokyo (and Hamburg) were attacked using incendiaries for the simple reason the attackers couldn't hit the particular but they could hit the general. In other words, the Allied night bombers could find, hit and set fire to a city easily but they couldn't hit a specific target within the city at all. The US bombing of Vietnam COULD hit specific targets, which is why the Vietnamese didn't bother to claim the Americans were engaging in indiscriminate terror attacks on civilians.
Western military thought no longer embraces area bombing because it doesn't work. It is wasteful of resources and it doesn't achieve it's supposed primary goal – the destruction of the enemies means and will to fight. A primary military consideration is are the means conmensurate with the ways and the ends? The UK devoted between 35-40% of it's total wartime output in WW2 to the construction of lavishly equipped heavy bombers, yet this force was frightfully vulnerable German nightfighters right to the end of the war and the heavy losses in bomber crews were inflicted on the best and brightest young men of the era. So, area bombing cost the UK more than it did Germany. Now that isn't to say such bombing doesn't achieve secondary objectives. The use of area bombing forces the enemy to disperse their industry, which is disruptive. It forces the diversion of resources into air defenses (in WW2 the Germans deployed thousands of large AA guns, fighters etc etc and air defense consumed almost all the output of Germany's electronics industry). Finally, the way the ends were achieved have ultimately become an issue. While area bombing has some justification, it is morally questionable, to say the least. Bombing civilians because otherwise you'd have all this expensive stuff sitting around doing not much is as bad morally and it is bad militarily.
Ultimately, the big lesson of WW2 was what WORKED was using strategic bombing to achieve a specific strategic aim. Thus, the "transport plan", or the attacks on the German canal system, or were the Americans would send 1000 USAAF heavy bombers (escorted by 1000 Mustang and Thunderbolt fighters) to carry out precision daylight bombing of vital targets as "bait" to force the Germans to send up their fighters, were they were engaged in a huge battle of attrition that the United States was always going to win handily via the application of Lanchester's equation. That is why now the west relies on precision guided weapons. Why would you bomb an entire city with 1000 bombers when all you want to do is destroy a tank factory?
The thread of logic that links Russia's missile attacks on the Ukraine with area bombing is the Russians are now no longer particularly interested in hitting the target they are aiming their wildly inaccurate Kh-22 and S300 missiles at. Just like destroying anything of military significance was a bonus of area bombing rather than the aim, so Russia regards actually hitting something they aim at and causing a militarily significant outcome as a bonus. The aim is an airborne expression of splenetic state terrorism at the temerity of the Ukrainians to resist and a brutal and cruel desire to inflict suffering on the Ukrainian civilian population.
The thing is, Western powers learnt from area bombing. It didn't work, it was wasteful, it was morally wrong in retrospect. They don't do it anymore. Russia, it seems, is not interested in these insights. They've learnt nothing and forgotten nothing from the human catastrophes of the mid 20th century.
The Western powers learnt not to area bomb? Or do you mean aerial?
You seem a bit lacking in some key understandings when it comes to being informed on what you are pontificating on about.
Any degree of comprehensive general knowledge should be familiar with the term area bombing. Here is the entry in Wikipedia. Avail yourself of some new knowledge.
"If you think the US has any morality whatsoever in its foreign policy …"morally wrong in retrospect"… come on , there's not really a discussion here…" Francesca
I don't think US foreign policy has any morality whatsoever. From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli, and everything in between, the nature and the crimes of American imperialism are well documented.
Every imperialism is racist and genocidal, it is the very nature of imperialism.
Biden calls the Russian Federation imperialist. Putin calls the U.S imperialist. What they both have in common is that they both don't want it known that they are both imperialists.
All imperialists are racist, how else can they claim they have the right to invade and take over and run other people's countries unless they believe those people are inferior.
All imperialists are genocidal, how else can can an imperialist nation put down an insurgent people, who refuse to submit. As one US general once said in Vietnam 'We had to destroy the village to save it"
Genocide is destroying the village to save it writ large
If the Russian imperialists did take their cue from the American imperialists, the student has become the master.
What the horrors of Syria and Chechnya can tell us about Russia’s tactics in Ukraine
Russia is bringing the deadly tactics used in Chechnya and Syria to Ukraine’s cities.
Abdulkafi Alhamdo remembers the day he asked his wife to take their infant daughter out of Aleppo. “I told her to take my daughter through the [humanitarian] corridor just to stay alive,” Alhamdo said. “I thought this was the last time I would see them, the last time I would kiss my daughter. I remember my daughter was holding my knees and crying. Perhaps she knew something.”…..
…..the tactics on display in Ukraine are “a clear attempt by the Russian military to do exactly what they did in Syria, and certainly what they did in Grozny: a mass shelling campaign to instill fear, terror, destruction, chaos and to create conditions in which the civilian population flees en masse, then creating conditions in which eventually, even the largest urban territories will end up falling under their control.”………
The Grozny model
After 20 days of heavy artillery shelling of the city center — sometimes at a rate of 4,000 rounds an hour — the Russian military eventually took Grozny on Jan. 20, 2005.
The heavy bombardment of Grozny “worked” in one sense. The Russians took the city. But Mogulof and other observers believe it may have made the Chechens more resolved to fight back. “It’s mechanized terrorism,” ….
……The air assault killed tens of thousands of civilians and left Grozny in ruins. The United Nations called it “the most destroyed city on earth.” …..
Aleppo —“a kind of hell”
….In 2015, Russian forces began an intervention in Syria on Assad’s behalf, using air power to tip the balance in his favor. In Aleppo, the rebel-held territories were completely encircled in mid-2016, leaving 250,000 people under siege and subject to heavy Russian airstrikes. The Russian and Syrian militaries were both accused of war crimes, including deliberately targeting medical facilities, using indiscriminate weapons such as cluster munitions and attempting to starve the city’s population……
"The thing is, Western powers learnt from area bombing. It didn't work, it was wasteful, it was morally wrong in retrospect"
Indeed, have three of four volumes of "The Strategic Air Offensive against Germany 1939-1945" by Sir Charles Webster and Noble Frankland published 1961 which was biffed out of Whenuapai Station Library – RNZAF Command and Staff College Library Book with CANCELLED stamped inside which examines and discusses this very subject.
Vol I issued once in 1995 Vol II issued thrice in 1962; 1972 & 1992 No Vol III and Vol IV issued once in 1976.
One wonders why it is not still a standard text for study!
BTW written in pencil on flyleaf is: Total Price Set of 4 Vols 9 pounds and four shillings. Do hope they got their moneys worth out of them …..
Would love to find Vol III and only paid $12 for the three.
You really love giving me a dose of Dysentery don't you?
Why don't you read up on Russia's guarantees that it signed under the Lisbon Protocol & Budapest Memorandum when Ukraine gave up its Strategic Wpns at the end of the Cold War for Starters.
Then go back to the 1917 through 1925 when the USSR signed a similar Peace Treaty in 1920 or 22 from memory where Russia kept Eastern Ukraine along the Dnipro River. Which it violated in 1925 leading to Holodomor under Stalin.
Then read up what Stalin did to Ukraine after Russia booted the Germans out & it could've a lot more worse if Khrushchev quietly squash some of Stalin Orders.
The Ukrainian's do not & will not trust Russia for the next 1k yrs no matter what what Peace Treaty they sign because Russia can not be Bloody Trust to keep their Bloody Word & will not Negotiate in Good Faith!
Why do you think Finland & Sweden decided to give up their Long Standing Neutrality FFS!!!
Respect to you too Francesca really enjoyed your comments today answering one an all with quiet aplomb inspite of the hubbub very well done and exactly the kind of diplomacy lacking in the general debate imo .
Gotta say it reminds me of a memorable scene from ' One flew over the cuckoos nest ' though …hope you can guess which one !!
There will be no peace, the Russians think they are winning (or at the very least have to win). Well the leadership think they are.
You get the Russian goal is on the West of Ukraine so they will keep going till they have all their strategic points occupied.
Peace might be discussed when the Russians have lost 500,000 troops. Might, they seem hell bent on self genocide at the moment – through throwing away the last generation who could save them as a people. Those who survive this mess are going to be totally FUBAR.
I want this war over, but the idiots are in charge so I see it lasting till the last Russian is left going "can I go home now"
Mr. Sensible kindly gives us a master class in demolishing your own argument in the first two paragraphs of a rather ill thought out opinion piece…
"…The suggestion that the national capital should be shifted from Wellington to Hamilton, on the spurious grounds that the majority of our population lives north of Te Awamutu, is as ludicrous as it would be disastrous.
One of Wellington’s great advantages remains its centrality – as true today as it was in 1865. Indeed, Wellington’s only real competitor in that regard is Nelson…"
Centrality? Over three-quarters of New Zealand's population live in the North Island, with half living north of Lake Rotorua, and one-third of the total population living in the Auckland Region. On the basis of "centrality" surely the Tron is a fantastic idea? I guess he means GEOGRAPHIC centrality – in which case the US should move it's capital to Belle Fourche, South Dakota or the UK should move it's capital to Lancashire – or how about moving the Australian capital to somewhere in the middle of the Simpson desert?
Peter Dunne is a pompous old fool who spouts nonsense.
Irrespective of the pompous prats argument. I hope it carries some sway.
The last thing we need north of Rotorua is that lot. We've got enough idiots of our own up here. It's becoming increasingly harder to fly under the radar these days.
I've always thought that Wellington was a ridiculous place for parliament, it's when not if that place gets leveled by a whopper earthquke(very scientific terminology)
Christchurch would be my pick , Auckland throws its weight around enough with out letting the seat of power any near them
“The busy summer holiday period has highlighted just what an appalling state much of our roading network is in,” Transporting New Zealand chief executive Nick Leggett said.
“It’s not just about road maintenance. We also need the Government to recommit to new roading capacity to ease the strain on our existing network.”
In October 2018 Leggett was appointed the CEO of the Road Transport Forum,[24] a lobby group which promotes and the interests of the trucking road freight industry.[25]
Hi BG. Its an absolute no-brainer. Sadly the NO brainers : think Nat Simeon Brown etc… are getting the media attention. And of course the totally vested interest lobbyists as in Nick Leggett in my link.
IMO KiwiRail…are not really NZ Rail proponents..or even Rail friendly. I really feel Labour should get with re nationalising NZ Rail .And maybe some changes within at the same time (to get a real focus on Rail)
It's never been about protecting Russian speaking people, NATO, or about "'nazis".
It's always been about the eradication of the Ukrainian presence and identity to facilitate a genocidal land grab.
.
Over the next four days, the Kherson Regional Art Museum was cleaned out, witnesses said, with Russian forces “bustling about like insects,” porters wheeling out thousands of paintings, soldiers hastily wrapping them in sheets, art experts barking out orders and packing material flying everywhere.
“They were loading such masterpieces, which there are no more in the world, as if they were garbage,” said the museum’s longtime director, Alina Dotsenko, who recently returned from exile, recounting what employees and witnesses had told her.
When she came back to the museum in early November and grasped how much had been stolen, she said, “I almost lost my mind.”
Kherson. Mariupol. Melitopol. Kakhovsky. Museums of art, history and antiquities.
As Russia has ravaged Ukraine with deadly missile strikes and brutal atrocities on civilians, it has also looted the nation’s cultural institutions of some of the most important and intensely protected contributions of Ukraine and its forebears going back thousands of years.
International art experts say the plundering may be the single biggest collective art heist since the Nazis pillaged Europe in World War II.
Looting is as old as war. So the pearl clutching is a bit rich for someone who supports the war.
The reality is war produces animals out of all who fight them.
But as your a huge supporter of keeping this war going joe90, you have to face up to the reality of the ugly as well: Rape, Looting, Killing of prisoners, and Mass murder of civilians is going to keep happening as long as this war keeps going. Both sides are going to do it.
No one has a monopoly on doing evil shit in war.
We just have to wait until at least 1/2 a million Russian soldiers are dead, before we can get around to peace talks.
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Building your own computer can be a rewarding and cost-effective way to get a high-performance machine tailored to your specific needs. However, it also requires careful planning and execution, and one of the most important factors to consider is the time it will take. The exact time it takes to ...
Sleep mode is a power-saving state that allows your computer to quickly resume operation without having to boot up from scratch. This can be useful if you need to step away from your computer for a short period of time but don’t want to shut it down completely. There are ...
Introduction Computer-Assisted Translation (CAT) has revolutionized the field of translation by harnessing the power of technology to assist human translators in their work. This innovative approach combines specialized software with human expertise to improve the efficiency, accuracy, and consistency of translations. In this comprehensive article, we will delve into the ...
In today’s digital age, mobile devices have become an indispensable part of our daily lives. Among the vast array of portable computing options available, iPads and tablet computers stand out as two prominent contenders. While both offer similar functionalities, there are subtle yet significant differences between these two devices. This ...
A computer is an electronic device that can be programmed to carry out a set of instructions. The basic components of a computer are the processor, memory, storage, input devices, and output devices. The Processor The processor, also known as the central processing unit (CPU), is the brain of the ...
Voice Memos is a convenient app on your iPhone that allows you to quickly record and store audio snippets. These recordings can be useful for a variety of purposes, such as taking notes, capturing ideas, or recording interviews. While you can listen to your voice memos on your iPhone, you ...
Laptop screens are essential for interacting with our devices and accessing information. However, when lines appear on the screen, it can be frustrating and disrupt productivity. Understanding the underlying causes of these lines is crucial for finding effective solutions. Types of Screen Lines Horizontal lines: Also known as scan ...
Right-clicking is a common and essential computer operation that allows users to access additional options and settings. While most desktop computers have dedicated right-click buttons on their mice, laptops often do not have these buttons due to space limitations. This article will provide a comprehensive guide on how to right-click ...
Powering up and shutting down your ASUS laptop is an essential task for any laptop user. Locating the power button can sometimes be a hassle, especially if you’re new to ASUS laptops. This article will provide a comprehensive guide on where to find the power button on different ASUS laptop ...
Dell laptops are renowned for their reliability, performance, and versatility. Whether you’re a student, a professional, or just someone who needs a reliable computing device, a Dell laptop can meet your needs. However, if you’re new to Dell laptops, you may be wondering how to get started. In this comprehensive ...
Two-thirds of the country think that “New Zealand’s economy is rigged to advantage the rich and powerful”. They also believe that “New Zealand needs a strong leader to take the country back from the rich and powerful”. These are just two of a handful of stunning new survey results released ...
In today’s digital world, screenshots have become an indispensable tool for communication and documentation. Whether you need to capture an important email, preserve a website page, or share an error message, screenshots allow you to quickly and easily preserve digital information. If you’re an Asus laptop user, there are several ...
A factory reset restores your Gateway laptop to its original factory settings, erasing all data, apps, and personalizations. This can be necessary to resolve software issues, remove viruses, or prepare your laptop for sale or transfer. Here’s a step-by-step guide on how to factory reset your Gateway laptop: Method 1: ...
“You talking about me?”The neoliberal denigration of the past was nowhere more unrelenting than in its depiction of the public service. The Post Office and the Railways were held up as being both irremediably inefficient and scandalously over-manned. Playwright Roger Hall’s “Glide Time” caricatures were presented as accurate depictions of ...
Roger Partridge writes – When the Coalition Government took office last October, it inherited a country on a precipice. With persistent inflation, decades of insipid productivity growth and crises in healthcare, education, housing and law and order, it is no exaggeration to suggest New Zealand’s first-world status was ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – In 2022, the Curriculum Centre at the Ministry of Education employed 308 staff, according to an Official Information Request. Earlier this week it was announced 202 of those staff were being cut. When you look up “The New Zealand Curriculum” on the Ministry of ...
Chris Bishop’s bill has stirred up a hornets nest of opposition. Photo: Lynn Grieveson for The KākāTL;DR: The six things that stood out to me in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, poverty and climate from the last day included:A crescendo of opposition to the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill is ...
Monday left me brokenTuesday, I was through with hopingWednesday, my empty arms were openThursday, waiting for love, waiting for loveThe end of another week that left many of us asking WTF? What on earth has NZ gotten itself into and how on earth could people have voluntarily signed up for ...
Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.State of humanity, 20242024, it feels, keeps presenting us with ever more challenges, ever more dismay.Do you give up yet? It seems to ask.No? How about this? Or this?How about this?Full story Share ...
Determining the hardest sport in the world is a subjective matter, as the difficulty level can vary depending on individual abilities, physical attributes, and experience. However, based on various factors including physical demands, technical skills, mental fortitude, and overall accomplishment, here is an exploration of some of the most challenging ...
The allure of sport transcends age, culture, and geographical boundaries. It captivates hearts, ignites passions, and provides unparalleled entertainment. Behind the spectacle, however, lies a fascinating world of financial investment and expenditure. Among the vast array of competitive pursuits, one question looms large: which sport carries the hefty title of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
The Government’s newly announced review of methane emissions reduction targets hints at its desire to delay Aotearoa New Zealand’s urgent transition to a climate safe future, the Green Party said. ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
ACT's Rural Communities and Veterans spokesman Mark Cameron responds to cancellations and protests of ANZAC Day commemorations in Wellington. He says, "These pitiful attempts to detract from ANZAC Day are not at all indicative of the feelings of mainstream ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meighen McCrae, Associate Professor of Strategic & Defence Studies, Australian National University American and Australian stretcher bearers working together near the front line during the Battle of Hamel in 1918.Australian War Memorial While the AUKUS alliance is new, the Australian-American partnership ...
Pōneke based peace activists staged a silent protest at the ANZAC day service to highlight New Zealand’s complicity in war and genocide, and urge the government to take concrete steps to stop the genocide in Palestine. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Magdalena M.E. Bunbury, Postdoctoral Researcher, James Cook University Burial with a horse at the Rákóczifalva site, Hungary (8th century AD).Sándor Hegedűs, Hungarian National Museum, CC BY How do we understand past societies? For centuries, our main sources of information have been ...
Amanda Thompson doesn’t really do Anzac Day. But what she does do is remember the people she knew who had a lifetime to remember stuff they didn’t really want to, because of a war they didn’t ask for. And she does make Anzac biscuits.First published in 2021.All my ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kathryn Willis, Postdoctoral Researcher, CSIRO Xavier Boulenger/Shutterstock In the two decades to 2019, global plastic production doubled. By 2040, plastic manufacturing and processing could consume as much as 20% of global oil production and use up 15% of the annual carbon ...
With our collective remembrance, and steadfast belief in our common humanity, we strengthen our hope and resolve to do what we can to foster dialogue and understanding, and to heal divisions in our pursuit of peace. ...
Principal reasons for the opposition is the loss of the public’s democratic right to have “a fair say” and the vital need for a government free from corruption, said Casey Cravens of Dunedin, president of the New Zealand Federation of Freshwater ...
Never mind the scoreboard – in the 2000 Bledisloe Cup decider, the real trans-Tasman battle was won before kickoff.First published in 2016. The dawn of the new millennium was a dark time for the All Blacks. Their final game pre-Y2K was a 22-18 loss to South Africa in the ...
I’m on the wrong side of 40, I never pursued creative work and now my job is killing my soul. Help! Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nzDear Hera,May I start with the least original conversation opener you’re likely to hear around the motu at the moment, particularly in Wellington: ...
“Never again - No AUKUS” was the message of the wreath laid at this morning’s national ANZAC Day commemorative service at Pukeahu National War Memorial Park this morning by the Stop AUKUS group. ...
Until this month, Auckland swimmer Hazel Ouwehand had never met a qualifying time in an Olympic event for a New Zealand team, even as a junior. Now she’s very likely off to the Paris Olympics after swimming well under the qualifying standard in the 100m butterfly twice – both in ...
While Anzac Day has experienced a resurgence in recent years, our other day of remembrance has slowly faded from view.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand. Original illustrations by Hope McConnell.First published in 2022.The high school’s head girl and ...
Australian and New Zealand volunteers fought together in the Waikato War, yet still its place in the Anzac tradition is unacknowledged by our defence forces or Returned Services Association.First published in 2018.When I was a boy cub I attended Anzac Day services in the South Auckland suburb of ...
A poem by Wellington writer Tayi Tibble.Hoki Mai She kisses him goodbye with her eyes still wet and alight from their last swim in the Awatere river. At the train station celebration, she leads the Kapa Haka but her voice keeps breaking under and over itself like waves. ...
A poem from Bill Manhire’s 2017 book of verse Some Things to Place in a Coffin.My World War I Poem Inside each trench, the sound of prayer. Inside each prayer, the sound of digging. Image courtesy of Auckland War Memorial Museum. ...
There are three books I have wolfed down in one sitting over the last two years. Colleen Maria Lenihan’s gorgeous and sad debut Kōhine, Noelle McCarthy’s memoir Grand about becoming her mother and then unbecoming her, and now Hine Toa, a staunch yet gentle self-portrait by living legend Ngāhuia te ...
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Asia Pacific Report Students and activist staff at Australia’s University of Sydney (USyd) have set up a Gaza solidarity encampment in support of Palestinians and similar student-led protests in the United States. The camp was pitched as mass graves, crippled hospitals, thousands of civilian deaths and the near-total destruction of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James B. Dorey, Lecturer in Biological Sciences, University of Wollongong Australian teddy bear bees are cute and fluffy, but get a look at that massive (unbarbed) stinger! James Dorey Photography Most of us have been stung by a bee and we ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jen Roberts, Senior Lecturer, School of Humanities and Social Inquiry, University of Wollongong Aussie~mobs/FlickrVictor Farr, a private in the 1st Infantry Battalion, was among the first to land at Anzac Cove just before dawn on April 25 1915. Victor Farr ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Moore, Senior Research Associate, School of Ecosystem and Forest Sciences, The University of Melbourne Gregory Moore I had the good fortune to care for the sugar gum at The University of Melbourne’s Burnley Gardens in Victoria where I worked for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachel Ong ViforJ, ARC Future Fellow & Professor of Economics, Curtin University Just when we think the price of rentals could not get any worse, this week’s Rental Affordability Snapshot by Anglicare has revealed low-income Australians are facing a housing crisis like ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meighen McCrae, Associate Professor of Strategic & Defence Studies, Australian National University American and Australian stretcher bearers working together near the front line during the Battle of Hamel in 1918.Australian War Memorial While the AUKUS alliance is new, the Australian-American partnership ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tracey Holmes, Professorial Fellow in Sport, University of Canberra When the news broke last weekend that 23 Chinese swimmers had tested positive to a banned drug in early 2021 and were allowed to compete at the Tokyo Olympic Games six months later ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cally Jetta, Senior Lecturer and Academic Lead; College for First Nations, University of Southern Queensland Australian War MemorialAboriginal and Torres Strait Islander readers are advised this article contains names and images of deceased people, as well as sensitive historical information ...
RNZ News Melissa Lee has been ousted from New Zealand’s coalition cabinet and stripped of the Media portfolio, and Penny Simmonds has lost the Disability Issues portfolio in a reshuffle. Climate Change and Revenue Minister Simon Watts will take Lee’s spot in cabinet. Simmonds was a minister outside of cabinet. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Lindenmayer, Professor, Fenner School of Environment and Society, Australian National University laurello/Shutterstock Some reports and popular books, such as Bill Gammage’s Biggest Estate on Earth, have argued that extensive areas of Australia’s forests were kept open through frequent burning by ...
Analysis - Christopher Luxon framing the demotion of two ministers as the portfolios getting "too complex" is a charitable way of saying they weren't up to the job. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra With Jim Chalmers’s third budget on May 14, Australians will be looking for some more cost-of-living relief – beyond the tax cuts – although they have been warned extra measures will be modest. As ...
Analysis: Melissa Lee has lost the media portfolio and her spot in Cabinet after multiple failed attempts to find solutions for a media industry in crisis. On Wednesday, the Prime Minister announced Lee would be losing her spot in Cabinet along with her media and communications ministerial portfolio. The job ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Simon Wilmot, Senior Lecturer, Film, Deakin University Among the many Australian who served during the second world war, there is a small group of people whose stories remain largely untold. These are the Muslim men and women who, while small in number, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kelly Saunders, PhD Candidate, University of Canberra There has been much analysis and praise of Justice Michael Lee’s recent judgement in Bruce Lehrmann’s defamation case against Channel Ten. Many people were openly relieved to read Lee’s “forensic” and “nuanced” application of law ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kathy Gibbs, Program Director for the Bachelor of Education, Griffith University zEdward_Indy/Shutterstock Around one in 20 people has attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). It’s one of the most common neurodevelopmental disorders in childhood and often continues into adulthood. ADHD is diagnosed ...
The Fairer Future coalition of anti-poverty groups say Whaikaha must be properly funded going forward, and that to argue that poor financial management of the new Ministry is a red herring by the Prime Minister. ...
The Taxpayers’ Union is today congratulating Hon. Paul Goldsmith on his appointment as Minister for Media and Communications and urges him to rule out state intervention in the private media sector. ...
Asia Pacific Report The West Papuan resistance OPM leader has condemned Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and US President Joe Biden, accusing their countries of “six decades of treachery” over Papuan independence. The open letter was released today by OPM chairman Jeffrey P Bomanak on the eve of ANZAC Day ...
Welcome to The Spinoff Books Confessional, in which we get to know the reading habits and quirks of New Zealanders at large. This week: writer and one of Time Magazine’s 100 most influential people of 2024, Lauren Groff.The book I wish I’d writtenIf I wish I’d written a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Fechner, Research Fellow, Social Marketing, Griffith University mavo/Shutterstock Imagine having dinner at a restaurant. The menu offers plant-based meat alternatives made mostly from vegetables, mushrooms, legumes and wheat that mimic meat in taste, texture and smell. Despite being given that ...
“Three Strikes is a dead-end policy proposed by a dead-end government. The Three Strikes law ignores the causes of crime, instead just brutalising people already crushed by the cost of living.” ...
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How is peace with Russia possible when they do this sort of thing?
Dunno.
What are the precedents?
Dresden firebombing killing 25,000 people in WW2 ,perpetrated by joint US/UK airforce
Tokyo napalm firebombing killing 100,000 in single night , perpetrated by the USairforce in WW2
Napalm bombing in Vietnam
Ditto Korea, reducing the Koreans in the north to living underground
More recently Raqqa 1,600 civilians killed
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/coalition-strikes-killed-1600-civilians-raqqa-report/story?id=62629765
Mosul
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2017/04/bombed-in-their-homes-civilians-in-mosul-blame-reckless-coalition-forces/
How can we bear to consider these people our allies?
By practising selective morality aka calculating where our economic interests lie
What about your whataboutism?
This is a despicable attack by Russia and whatabouting doesn't make it any less so.
TSmithfield asked how was peace possible when Russia does things like this ?
I responded by saying we have apparently come to an easy accomodation with allies who do things far more egregious than this:examples given, and somehow a peace was found.
Result? very predictable cries about "whataboutism" Frankly guys, that is worn out and lacking any kind of credible argument
Once again you will shriek Russian propaganda!! when I post this next link
https://www.rt.com/russia/569890-ukraine-missile-fell-dnepr/
Even if it is true that the Ukrainians shot down a Russian missile (how dreadful of them), how does that change anything?
After all, the Russians were targeting the Ukrainian power grid in this attack, amongst other things. That sort of action in the freezing conditions now prevailing in Ukraine could even have a worse effect in terms of human suffering.
The Russians are very aware of the suffering they are likely to cause one way or another with this sort of behaviour targeting civilian infrastructure. So, in no way does anything you say justify the Russian action.
The fact that you cite RT just confirms our suspicions about you.
Oh Smithfield !
I did have a laugh at the idea of "our" suspicions
OK then. I will ask you directly
Are you employed by a troll factory?
Yes or No
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw6Jy5MeLZo&t=2s&ab_channel=NBCNews
Yes Jenny , its hugely profitable, I've made 3000 roubles a month at least, and have a time share in fabulous dachas in Crimea.There's never any difficulty getting the money sent over either, it comes packed in those Russian dolls
Oh the stories I could tell you !Dancing with Putin at my wedding, the fun!,the singing! the barbecues at the Kremlin, the chess games with Lavrov !
And no one has ever found me out (but there are those who've had their dark suspicions!)
Until now!
Clever Jenny!
Yes or No
"Many a true word is spoken in jest" James Joyce
Whether or not you work for a Russian troll farm, or not is irrelevant really. The way you slurp up to the Russian war machine, the effect is the same.
Well let's face it. Your continued appeasement for Russian atrocities does sound very much like the mantra of a useful idiot (and I use those words carefully as I was well aquainted with one in the 1960's who pestered my father relentlessly with Soviet propaganda). I know how they operated and what their belief systems were. They were totally down the rabbit hole of Soviet lies and misinformation regularly sent to them from the Russian consulate as it was then.
My father was the President of a Union for over 20 years so they were particularly keen to get him on their side and ferment trouble. They didn't like the fact that he ignored them, and instead the Union was able to gain very good pay rates and working conditions for the members of his union without the need for constant strikes and stop works. On one occasion a National Party MP was heard to say in the House how appalled he was that these workers were earning almost as much as he!
If only those pesky Ukrainians would see just how benign and helpful these continued bombardments form Russia are, and stop trying to shoot them down. Everything would be much so much better.
Like Russia murdering = moral, west murdering = immoral. Got it.
It says a lot about you that you can brush off the horror of this situation with some sort of wierd whataboutism justification of it.
But, putting that aside, why would the people of Ukraine be the slightest bit interested in doing any sort of peace deal with Russia when Russia behaves like this? Especially since the horror of this situation will likely just motivate the west to supply more and heavier weapons to Ukraine, thus increasing the likelihood of a Ukrainian victory.
If you really want to see a peaceful resolution to this conflict then you should be condemning this sort of behaviour not excusing it.
Quite right, Fransesca.
Likewise, the siege of Constantinople in 1451 was a particularly brutal affair.
And what about those nasty Romans sowing salt on the ruins of Carthage in 145BCE – there are plenty of examples which can be used to excuse present day barbarity.
But it still remains barbarity!
Once again , you miss the point
Peace is possible .,it has to be .Vietnam has apparently forgiven the genocidal assaults of the Vietnam war, or as they call it , the Resistance war against America
In the face of our own barbarity, it seems we forgive and forget very easily
Where is the consistency?
Why aren’t we arming the Palestinians and applying sanctions to Israel, not that I would recommend that
War is disgusting, and should be avoided at all costs, peace agreements implemented, but there are precious few anti war activists left anywhere in the west , not when so many livelihoods are dependent on war and other people get to do the bloodshedding
Anything is "possible''. But this sort of action by the Russians makes peace a much more difficult outcome to achieve.
So, as I said before, if you really want to see a peaceful resolution to this conflict, you should be condemning this sort of action.
Do you condemn it?
So, as I said before, I condemn war , because this is the sort of barbaric shit that happens in war .(see numerous examples I have given)
Do you condemn war?
Of course I condemn "war''.
What I don't condemn is people wanting to defend their country, homes, and families against unwarranted agression from larger nations. So, in this case, I condemn war by condemning Russia.
But, I guess you will just say the Russians are acting in "self defence" or that the US did it therefore Russia can do it, or something equally inane.
Further to that, "condemning war" in the way that you would have it in this conflict would mean allowing the Russian army to roll in with its tanks uncontested and Ukraine capitulating in order to avoid war.
Am I correct in that interpretation?
No , you're not
I've already said it .The war could have been prevented .The Minsk peace agreements signed between the LPR, DPR, and Ukraine was a path to peace, but as Poroshenko boasted, there was never any intention of implementing it , and the plan was to take Donbas by force
No negotiations , no compromise
Well then , you would approve the Donbas people of resisting attack by Western Ukraine , since 2014, only I've never heard that from you
"…Well then , you would approve the Donbas people of resisting attack by Western Ukraine , since 2014, only I've never heard that from you…"
A bizarre statement. Where is this "Western Ukraine" you speak? I can't find it on a map.
The Donbas is legally part of the Ukraine, like Crimea.
Then you have no understanding of why there is such tension between the eastern provinces (formerly Russian territory which Ukraine expanded into under Lenin in the 20's)mainly orthodox and culturally Russian , and the western parts, where you are more likely to encounter monuments to Nazi collaborators like Bandera , and more likely to belong to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church
Here is a small primer for you
https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-divided-over-legacy-of-nazi-fighters/
Your modus operandi is to go around and round in circles repeating the same nonsense that has already been debunked many times.
It has already been pointed out on numerous occasions that the far right only got around 2% of the vote in the last Ukrainian election. So, it obviously isn't much more of a problem than most countries.
If you are really that vexed about Nazis, then you should be really worried about Nazis in Russia. Especially as it appears Putin has been trying to manipulate them for his own ends, as the article points out.
From the link:
“What has received less coverage is the Putin regime’s own record of collaboration with far-right extremists.”
It is not at all clear who was attacking who in that conflict, especially considering it wasn't only rebel Ukrainians involved. But also, large numbers of Russians, including Russian special forces.
So, it looks more like a continuation of Russian agression following the annexation of Crimea than anything else.
Does the name Igor Girkin mean anything to you. Pity about that Malaysian passenger plane that was shot down. But I guess you would blame the Ukrainians for that as well.
Yes, Igor Girkin aka Strelkov, a nationalist and a nutter, banned from eastern Ukraine by Putin,and ever since a strident critic of Putin , because he thinks Putin is a softie and appeaser of the west.
You're really drifting here
You obviously didn't read the link very well.
He has only become critical of Putin over recent times. And was actually quite popular prior to the downing of the Malaysian plane which was terminal for his career.
From the previous link:
"Peace is possible .,it has to be .Vietnam has apparently forgiven the genocidal assaults of the Vietnam war,…." Francesca.
Only when and after the US imperialists were driven out.
Did you forget that part?
groan the Dresden and Tokyo attacks were 80 years ago now, Korea three quarters of a century ago and Rolling Thunder for all it's tonnage of bombs dropped was not an area bombing offensive. This sort of tedious whatabboutism is mired in a miserable ignorance of the last eighty years.
The thing is, targets like Dresden and Tokyo (and Hamburg) were attacked using incendiaries for the simple reason the attackers couldn't hit the particular but they could hit the general. In other words, the Allied night bombers could find, hit and set fire to a city easily but they couldn't hit a specific target within the city at all. The US bombing of Vietnam COULD hit specific targets, which is why the Vietnamese didn't bother to claim the Americans were engaging in indiscriminate terror attacks on civilians.
Western military thought no longer embraces area bombing because it doesn't work. It is wasteful of resources and it doesn't achieve it's supposed primary goal – the destruction of the enemies means and will to fight. A primary military consideration is are the means conmensurate with the ways and the ends? The UK devoted between 35-40% of it's total wartime output in WW2 to the construction of lavishly equipped heavy bombers, yet this force was frightfully vulnerable German nightfighters right to the end of the war and the heavy losses in bomber crews were inflicted on the best and brightest young men of the era. So, area bombing cost the UK more than it did Germany. Now that isn't to say such bombing doesn't achieve secondary objectives. The use of area bombing forces the enemy to disperse their industry, which is disruptive. It forces the diversion of resources into air defenses (in WW2 the Germans deployed thousands of large AA guns, fighters etc etc and air defense consumed almost all the output of Germany's electronics industry). Finally, the way the ends were achieved have ultimately become an issue. While area bombing has some justification, it is morally questionable, to say the least. Bombing civilians because otherwise you'd have all this expensive stuff sitting around doing not much is as bad morally and it is bad militarily.
Ultimately, the big lesson of WW2 was what WORKED was using strategic bombing to achieve a specific strategic aim. Thus, the "transport plan", or the attacks on the German canal system, or were the Americans would send 1000 USAAF heavy bombers (escorted by 1000 Mustang and Thunderbolt fighters) to carry out precision daylight bombing of vital targets as "bait" to force the Germans to send up their fighters, were they were engaged in a huge battle of attrition that the United States was always going to win handily via the application of Lanchester's equation. That is why now the west relies on precision guided weapons. Why would you bomb an entire city with 1000 bombers when all you want to do is destroy a tank factory?
The thread of logic that links Russia's missile attacks on the Ukraine with area bombing is the Russians are now no longer particularly interested in hitting the target they are aiming their wildly inaccurate Kh-22 and S300 missiles at. Just like destroying anything of military significance was a bonus of area bombing rather than the aim, so Russia regards actually hitting something they aim at and causing a militarily significant outcome as a bonus. The aim is an airborne expression of splenetic state terrorism at the temerity of the Ukrainians to resist and a brutal and cruel desire to inflict suffering on the Ukrainian civilian population.
The thing is, Western powers learnt from area bombing. It didn't work, it was wasteful, it was morally wrong in retrospect. They don't do it anymore. Russia, it seems, is not interested in these insights. They've learnt nothing and forgotten nothing from the human catastrophes of the mid 20th century.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
The Western powers learnt not to area bomb?Or do you mean aerial?
What planet are you on ?
Iraq, Libya,Syria, Somalia,Afghanistan,Vietnam, Laos,Cambodia,Serbia.
And from the Progressive
https://progressive.org/latest/usa-bombs-drop-benjamin-davies-220112/
If you think the US has any morality whatsoever in its foreign policy …"morally wrong in retrospect"… come on , there's not really a discussion here
The Western powers learnt not to area bomb? Or do you mean aerial?
You seem a bit lacking in some key understandings when it comes to being informed on what you are pontificating on about.
Any degree of comprehensive general knowledge should be familiar with the term area bombing. Here is the entry in Wikipedia. Avail yourself of some new knowledge.
Thanks, I did know, I just couldn't believe you thought the US had given up bombing residential areas , urban areas
I repeat Mosul, Raqqa
"If you think the US has any morality whatsoever in its foreign policy …"morally wrong in retrospect"… come on , there's not really a discussion here…" Francesca
I don't think US foreign policy has any morality whatsoever. From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli, and everything in between, the nature and the crimes of American imperialism are well documented.
Every imperialism is racist and genocidal, it is the very nature of imperialism.
Biden calls the Russian Federation imperialist. Putin calls the U.S imperialist. What they both have in common is that they both don't want it known that they are both imperialists.
All imperialists are racist, how else can they claim they have the right to invade and take over and run other people's countries unless they believe those people are inferior.
All imperialists are genocidal, how else can can an imperialist nation put down an insurgent people, who refuse to submit. As one US general once said in Vietnam 'We had to destroy the village to save it"
Genocide is destroying the village to save it writ large
If the Russian imperialists did take their cue from the American imperialists, the student has become the master.
"The thing is, Western powers learnt from area bombing. It didn't work, it was wasteful, it was morally wrong in retrospect"
Indeed, have three of four volumes of "The Strategic Air Offensive against Germany 1939-1945" by Sir Charles Webster and Noble Frankland published 1961 which was biffed out of Whenuapai Station Library – RNZAF Command and Staff College Library Book with CANCELLED stamped inside which examines and discusses this very subject.
Vol I issued once in 1995 Vol II issued thrice in 1962; 1972 & 1992 No Vol III and Vol IV issued once in 1976.
One wonders why it is not still a standard text for study!
BTW written in pencil on flyleaf is: Total Price Set of 4 Vols 9 pounds and four shillings. Do hope they got their moneys worth out of them …..
Would love to find Vol III and only paid $12 for the three.
FFS,
You really love giving me a dose of Dysentery don't you?
Why don't you read up on Russia's guarantees that it signed under the Lisbon Protocol & Budapest Memorandum when Ukraine gave up its Strategic Wpns at the end of the Cold War for Starters.
Then go back to the 1917 through 1925 when the USSR signed a similar Peace Treaty in 1920 or 22 from memory where Russia kept Eastern Ukraine along the Dnipro River. Which it violated in 1925 leading to Holodomor under Stalin.
Then read up what Stalin did to Ukraine after Russia booted the Germans out & it could've a lot more worse if Khrushchev quietly squash some of Stalin Orders.
The Ukrainian's do not & will not trust Russia for the next 1k yrs no matter what what Peace Treaty they sign because Russia can not be Bloody Trust to keep their Bloody Word & will not Negotiate in Good Faith!
Why do you think Finland & Sweden decided to give up their Long Standing Neutrality FFS!!!
Because they no longer Bloody Trust Russia FFS!!!
I think we'll let you have the last word Scud.Probably the only one amongst us who's been in the thick of it
Respect
To obtain some understanding – if this is what you aim for – read Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder – of what both Stalin and Hitler did to Ukraine.
The Ukrainians, for damn good reason, will never trust the Russians!
Respect to you too Francesca really enjoyed your comments today answering one an all with quiet aplomb inspite of the hubbub very well done and exactly the kind of diplomacy lacking in the general debate imo .
Gotta say it reminds me of a memorable scene from ' One flew over the cuckoos nest ' though …hope you can guess which one !!
regards
Cheers Weston !
I appreciate it
There will be no peace, the Russians think they are winning (or at the very least have to win). Well the leadership think they are.
You get the Russian goal is on the West of Ukraine so they will keep going till they have all their strategic points occupied.
Peace might be discussed when the Russians have lost 500,000 troops. Might, they seem hell bent on self genocide at the moment – through throwing away the last generation who could save them as a people. Those who survive this mess are going to be totally FUBAR.
I want this war over, but the idiots are in charge so I see it lasting till the last Russian is left going "can I go home now"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Fju9o8BVJ8
Mr. Sensible kindly gives us a master class in demolishing your own argument in the first two paragraphs of a rather ill thought out opinion piece…
"…The suggestion that the national capital should be shifted from Wellington to Hamilton, on the spurious grounds that the majority of our population lives north of Te Awamutu, is as ludicrous as it would be disastrous.
One of Wellington’s great advantages remains its centrality – as true today as it was in 1865. Indeed, Wellington’s only real competitor in that regard is Nelson…"
Centrality? Over three-quarters of New Zealand's population live in the North Island, with half living north of Lake Rotorua, and one-third of the total population living in the Auckland Region. On the basis of "centrality" surely the Tron is a fantastic idea? I guess he means GEOGRAPHIC centrality – in which case the US should move it's capital to Belle Fourche, South Dakota or the UK should move it's capital to Lancashire – or how about moving the Australian capital to somewhere in the middle of the Simpson desert?
Peter Dunne is a pompous old fool who spouts nonsense.
Irrespective of the pompous prats argument. I hope it carries some sway.
The last thing we need north of Rotorua is that lot. We've got enough idiots of our own up here. It's becoming increasingly harder to fly under the radar these days.
I've always thought that Wellington was a ridiculous place for parliament, it's when not if that place gets leveled by a whopper earthquke(very scientific terminology)
Christchurch would be my pick , Auckland throws its weight around enough with out letting the seat of power any near them
Would hazzard a guess that Christchurch – nay the entire South Island – would not want them and make that quite plain
No. Too conservative and lacking real diversity.
Hmmm. Nick …Leggett. Who he?
Aha….
So…apart from being a Nat…he also represents a major cause of the road damage problem. Egg.
Yep. Follow the dollars pretty much always demonstrates the validity of these guys statements.
It always amazes me how many "ceo's" of this or that lobby group there are in every sphere of our society.
Once again, follow the dollars. Cynicism is my new mantra.
Agreed Psyc.
I have posted a couple of times before on TS how trucks cause almost 1000 (one thousand) times the damage to roads compared with a family saloon.
Invest in rail is the obvious way out
Hi BG. Its an absolute no-brainer. Sadly the NO brainers : think Nat Simeon Brown etc… are getting the media attention. And of course the totally vested interest lobbyists as in Nick Leggett in my link.
IMO KiwiRail…are not really NZ Rail proponents..or even Rail friendly. I really feel Labour should get with re nationalising NZ Rail .And maybe some changes within at the same time (to get a real focus on Rail)
Youve probably seen these, but..
Also I have always kept this ..Rail…but also Coastal Shipping ! (FYI its a PDF..but very useful : )
He used to be the Labour mayor of Porirua. “Insert imprecation here.”
It's never been about protecting Russian speaking people, NATO, or about "'nazis".
It's always been about the eradication of the Ukrainian presence and identity to facilitate a genocidal land grab.
.
Over the next four days, the Kherson Regional Art Museum was cleaned out, witnesses said, with Russian forces “bustling about like insects,” porters wheeling out thousands of paintings, soldiers hastily wrapping them in sheets, art experts barking out orders and packing material flying everywhere.
“They were loading such masterpieces, which there are no more in the world, as if they were garbage,” said the museum’s longtime director, Alina Dotsenko, who recently returned from exile, recounting what employees and witnesses had told her.
When she came back to the museum in early November and grasped how much had been stolen, she said, “I almost lost my mind.”
Kherson. Mariupol. Melitopol. Kakhovsky. Museums of art, history and antiquities.
As Russia has ravaged Ukraine with deadly missile strikes and brutal atrocities on civilians, it has also looted the nation’s cultural institutions of some of the most important and intensely protected contributions of Ukraine and its forebears going back thousands of years.
International art experts say the plundering may be the single biggest collective art heist since the Nazis pillaged Europe in World War II.
https://archive.li/kriwg (nyt)
Looting is as old as war. So the pearl clutching is a bit rich for someone who supports the war.
The reality is war produces animals out of all who fight them.
But as your a huge supporter of keeping this war going joe90, you have to face up to the reality of the ugly as well: Rape, Looting, Killing of prisoners, and Mass murder of civilians is going to keep happening as long as this war keeps going. Both sides are going to do it.
No one has a monopoly on doing evil shit in war.
We just have to wait until at least 1/2 a million Russian soldiers are dead, before we can get around to peace talks.