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Open mike 16/07/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 16th, 2020 - 96 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

96 comments on “Open mike 16/07/2020 ”

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  1. ScottGN 1
    16 July 2020 at 6:21 am

    The Herald is reporting that Nikki Kaye is quitting at the election. It’s not very surprising, her tenure as Deputy Leader has been a total disaster, I don’t know why the commentators go so easy on her really.

    The Woodhouse camp (if there is one) is now spinning that he wanted to fess up about the Boag leaks on the Wednesday but Kaye and Adams told him to stay quiet; they were going to deal with it. No wonder Collins could only shift him sideways. How long before Adams re-resigns?

    The Herald also reports that the party was trying to dissuade Kaye from making a rash decision. Not, you’d have to think for Kaye’s benefit, but rather because the party can see a swathe of urban, fairly liberal voters leaving with her.

    Even before this shift fight Kaye’s grip on Auckland Central was probably slipping. It seems more likely now to go back to Labour.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/video.cfm?c_id=1&gal_cid=1&gallery_id=222072

  2. ScottGN 2
    16 July 2020 at 6:49 am

    I thought the PM’s response to the National Party’s leadership travails yesterday was spot on. “I’m just focussed on getting NZ through the pandemic and don’t have time for politics” etc.

    It neatly reminded everyone that, at this time of crisis, the Nats are only concerned with themselves. And it clearly got Collins all riled up. We all know she hates being ignored more than anything else. She accused the PM of being ‘woke’ (whatever that meant, presumably she just thinks it’s an easy way to denigrate someone) and ‘warned’ Ardern not to ignore her. And issued the good old ‘I’ll debate you anywhere, anytime challenge’ that Opposition Leaders love. Gonna be great fun if this is how easy it is to get Collins all worked up.

    • Dennis Frank 2.1
      16 July 2020 at 6:59 am

      She accused the PM of being ‘woke’ (whatever that meant

      She may have googled it, eh?

      By the late 2010s, woke had been adopted as a more generic slang term broadly associated with left-wing politics, socially liberal causes, feminism, LGBT activism, and cultural issues (with the terms woke culture and woke politics also being used). It has been the subject of memes, ironic usage and criticism. Its widespread use since 2014 is a result of the Black Lives Matter movement.

      I've been anticipating the emergence of woke 2.0 (brown lives matter), 3.0 (yellow lives matter) and 4.0 (red lives matter) for a while – but it seems that those other US ethnicities remain reluctant to awaken.

    • Peter 2.2
      16 July 2020 at 7:05 am

      The leadership will be up with the play what with everyone parachuting . Collins sometimes has problems getting to the airport though. She purposefully goes in the opposite direction and tells us she was going to the airport.

      And Gerry? He actually gets to the airport, ploughs through places he shouldn't be, bullshits his way through it and months later a report comes out showing his story was bullshit.

  3. Dennis Frank 3
    16 July 2020 at 7:22 am

    Chris Trotter: "Judith Collins scares me." http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2020/07/the-judith-collins-led-national-party.html

    "The election of Collins as National’s leader renders Labour’s broad-brush strategy politically untenable."

    But hey, bland is good, right? Well, Labour will try to cling to that notion but the battle for mainstreamers is more likely to be won by messaging that suits the crisis. Chris is right but the lag until Labour strategists realise that is the thing to watch for.

    All of Collins’ cruel humour will be unleashed on Labour’s lesser vessels. Social media will be flooded with painfully funny memes and attack videos.

    Yeah but Labour's preference for selecting mediocre candidates deserves an appropriate response – as long as the critique is fair and accurate, voters will credit National.

    If the Prime Minister can parry Collins’ attacks by making the voters laugh at her, then the Opposition’s strategy will fail. Rather than become angry or defensive in the face of Collins’ jibes, Jacinda needs to make fun of the thinking behind her criticisms.

    Damn right! JA can ace JC via this method. But it presumes JC will use flawed rightist framing. Framing to win centrists (as she should) makes her a hard target to hit.

    If Jacinda is able to embarrass her opponent severely, then there is every chance Collins will reveal her dark side. That would be “Game Over”.

    Correct. JC is vulnerable to any trigger that activates her dark side. Force her to adopt a partisan stance. Centrists will shift away from her.

    The second way to counter Collins’ attack-lines is for Labour to give Jacinda a comprehensive and popular recovery package to defend.

    We've already been waiting months for that. If Labour have actually done the intellectual work, they may be saving it for a timely campaign release.

    Confronted with a whole host of critical policy choices (most particularly on the future shape and direction of the New Zealand economy) Labour has proved itself woefully indecisive. In almost every circumstance, the party simply defaults to the orthodox Treasury line.

    Yeah. Allowing that perception to embed in the public mind is a mistake. Labour folk just point the polls and say `no problem'. Until the lead evaporates…

    • OnceWasTim 3.1
      16 July 2020 at 10:34 am

      I really like the bit where he says:

      " With the right rejecting her as too left, and the left dismissing her as too right, she has fallen repeatedly between the two STOOLS."

      Even if the Right stool is a hell of a lot more smelly these days

    • Drowsy M. Kram 3.2
      16 July 2020 at 11:31 am

      "Yeah but Labour's preference for selecting mediocre candidates deserves an appropriate response – as long as the critique is fair and accurate, voters will credit National." – more fun (and much easier) to snipe opine than lead, eh Dennis? Remind you of anyone?

  4. OnceWasTim 4
    16 July 2020 at 7:33 am

    Hungry and scared in Hawkes Bay

    Hungry and scared in Hawkes Bay

    newsroom.co.nz/hungry-and-scared-in-hawkes-bay

    Bizzniss as usual:
    " I have complete faith in my officials "

    "He noted that Brown was initially assigned the case as the RSE labour inspector for the Hawkes Bay region, but that he was re-assigned after a copy of the tape recording was presented to MBIE" ……. and anyway, it's not as if he called them "Scum" on social media.

    Bizzniss as usual.
    " I have complete faith in my officials "

    "He noted that Brown was initially assigned the case as the RSE labour inspector for the Hawkes Bay region, but that he was re-assigned after a copy of the tape recording was presented to MBIE" ……. and anyway, it's not as if he called them "Scum" on social media.

      • OnceWasTim 4.1.1
        16 July 2020 at 8:04 am

        There's history there @ Rosemary and elsewhere! And people remain in their positions.

        I freely admit I have quaint old ideas though like:

        public servants acting ethically; not having (or maintaining) conflicts if interests; respecting people's privacy; not thinking it OK to get people like T&C to spy on people carrying out their legitimate business; not trying to create their own little police forces; treating their worker-bees with respect and without bullying; actually doing the frikken job they're supposed to be doing; not leaking private information in order to advance their own agendas; etc.

        It doesn't seem that much to ask considering those responsible are well-remunerated, but you know – call me old-fashioned possum

        • greywarshark 4.1.1.1
          16 July 2020 at 2:13 pm

          When in government yet keeping close to business it is hard to decide whose interests you are serving, and it is possible to jump in and out of government, a bit like hopskotch.

          This Solomons Island thing is born of desperation surely.
          Around 600 Solomon Island workers are recruited each year work in horticulture and viticulture industries in regions across the country.

          Roselyn Givi and Janet Meimana are among 75 Solomon Island women recruited to pick blueberries in the Bay this year.
          Janet hails from Isobel Island in the outer provinces of the Solomon’s archipelago.

          After 2014’s Cyclone Ita washed away their family’s crops, Janet’s RSE earnings became vital for feeding her family and rebuilding her family’s home.

          “We send money back home to help our families because on the island they are short of food, she says.

          We no doubt count employing PI people for seasonal labour as aid to the Islands. I believe that has been so in the past. Where there has been tornadoes, tsunamis etc we should be providing long term aid such as special raised beds for growing important food crops and imported good compost and help to create more of their own compost.

          Also each family that would like to come to NZ and pick should be on a list, grouped within larger extended families, and then each area would be sure to have someone earning that could help that area. Some would come regularly, and some would be rotated. At present it sounds like the old closed-union style where people could never get to get employment because of family preferences.

          Treat people fairly, with input from them, not like colonials striding around being the big manager over a subject workforce.

          • OnceWasTim 4.1.1.1.1
            16 July 2020 at 3:44 pm

            "Treat people fairly, with input from them, not like colonials striding around being the big manager over a subject workforce"

            Exactery!

            My problem is that this sort of thing is not limited to the incident reported on by Newsroom. The people involved in this example have form. (All three). And it's all come about by bad policy and advice in the first place.

        • OnceWasTim 4.1.1.2
          17 July 2020 at 12:01 am

          Episode 2:

          https://www.newsroom.co.nz/alleged-assault-of-hawkes-bay-seasonal-worker

          While the assault needs to be proven, the conflicts of interest and all the other crap are obvious.

          It's possible (hopefully) more people will come forward now that many are starting to realise there's nothing to lose (they've already lost almost everything)

          "I have complete faith in my officials"

      • Gabby 4.1.2
        16 July 2020 at 1:48 pm

        Twiddleford and Lazy Galloway will be all over this, OR it's anoprashnilmadda.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.2
      16 July 2020 at 2:01 pm

      That's capitalism. The kinder, nicer face of serfdom.

  5. Andre 5
    16 July 2020 at 8:05 am

    Here's a good explainer on the difference between "herd immunity" that is achieved by vaccination prior to an infectiousness disease coming into a population, and how many people get infected when a completely new infectious disease gets introduced into a population that has never had it before and nobody is immune.

    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/health/medical/herd-immunity-a-misunderstanding/ar-BB16Mnkm?li=BBqdg4K&ocid=mailsignout

    tl;dr For something like SARS-CoV-2 where on average one infection passes it on to two others (R0 = 2), if more than half the population (more than 1 – 1/R0) are immune due to vaccination (or prior exposure), then the outbreak dies out naturally very quickly because the very few infectious people out loose don’t encounter enough susceptible people to sustain an increasing chain of transmission. So a vulnerable person has a very low chance of ever encountering an infectious person and getting infected.

    Whereas with a new infectious disease causing an epidemic, at the moment the "herd immunity" proportion of people achieve immunity, there are still many people wandering around in an infectious state. So anyone that is not immune has a much higher probability of encountering someone infectious and getting infected. So the epidemic won't die out until a much higher proportion of people get infected – up around 90% or more even for something with relatively low infectiousness like SARS-CoV-2.

    • SPC 5.1
      16 July 2020 at 10:22 am

      One little thing, they ignore the little detail that during this pandemic those people get a mild illness may not have immunity from getting it again and spreading it again.

    • Editractor 5.2
      16 July 2020 at 12:38 pm

      Throw evolutionary epidemiology into the mix and we really are still largely in the dark over SARS-CoV-2 .

      https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(20)30847-2. pdf

      Remove the space before “pdf” and copy the link if you want to follow it. For me the pdf was being automatically loaded in a pdf reader inside the comment, which was too small to read.

  6. Rosemary McDonald 6
    16 July 2020 at 8:23 am

    While all seem to be strangely obsessed with commenting from the sidelines as the Shit Ship National sinks beneath the waves, the Child Poverty Action Group releases a report calling for the Nationalisation of Early Childhood Education….free market principals are just not producing the positive outcomes for 'consumers'.

    https://www.cpag.org.nz/news/

    "Private for-profit providers are less likely to provide quality services across a range of indicators, including staff qualifications, workloads and retention, teacher-to-child ratios, and cultural responsiveness," they say.

    "Despite New Zealand being internationally lauded for its high rates of ECE participation, attending a poor quality ECE service is potentially worse than not attending ECE at all.

    "Rather than propping up the existing system – whereby ECE is treated as an investment opportunity, not a public good – the Government should be looking to nationalise ECE provision in its response to Covid-19."

    Surprisingly (to me) is that one of the recommendations is that the minimum per child area be increased….

    Despite ample evidence of the importance of layout and space of ECE environments for children’s learning,48NZ falls behind international recommendations of best practice. Research suggests that indoor requirements should be between 3.25 and 5 metres squared per child, and outdoor space between 7 and 25 metres squared per child.50At present, NZ regulations specify that licensed centres must have a minimum of2.5 metres squared per child indoors, and 5 metres squared per child outdoors.49Regulations were changed in 2008 to reduce the space-per-child requirements, which some have attributed to commercial pressure on the MoE.

    I had heard rumours that some ECE centres were cramming them in like battery hens…but to think this is actually legal, and that those minimum space requirement were lowered in 2008…was this prior to the election that Labour lost?

    In the meantime Natrad has been running articles featuring ECE owners bemoaning the fact that attendance (and profits?) have fallen markedly post Lockdown.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/421187/early-childhood-centres-face-closures-as-enrolments-dwindle-after-lockdown

    About 40,000 children – 20 percent of under-fives – have not returned to early learning after lockdown, the Early Childhood Council says.

    With fewer enrolments, centres get less income and some have too few children to be sustainable.

    Darius Singh of Chrysalis Early Learning Centres in Auckland and Tauranga said up to 5 percent of children might normally be away during winter because of sickness, but about 30 percent were now not coming in.

    This may not be a bad thing. Old fashioned that I am, I do believe that parents and grandparents (and other close whanau) are the best people to care for babies and toddlers and prepare them for the battleground that is School. And they don't need to do this alone…https://www.greatpotentials.org.nz/home-based-pre-school-education

    • greywarshark 6.1
      16 July 2020 at 1:56 pm

      Rosemary yes

    • Draco T Bastard 6.2
      16 July 2020 at 2:55 pm

      Old fashioned that I am, I do believe that parents and grandparents (and other close whanau) are the best people to care for babies and toddlers and prepare them for the battleground that is School.

      Parents and grand-parents are probably the worst for preparing kids for anything as they, mostly, subconsciously teach what they learned at that age. Unless they've consciously gone out and learned and internalised what the research tells us then they're just going to teach the same bad habits to the children that they learned as children.

      ECE is the better option but not privatised as they cut corners so as to boost profits especially as competition heats up.

  7. gsays 7
    16 July 2020 at 8:31 am

    Just starting to compile an election cycle playlist.

    First up a dedication to Amy Adams:

  8. Tricledrown 8
    16 July 2020 at 8:46 am

    Shane Reti making an idiot of himself already RNZ saying we should be managing our returning people in isolation /quarantine like Australia .

    Really then he goes on to say we should be bringing in overseas students.

    Really from which country .

    Then an epidemiologist came on afterwards an said it wasn't a good idea.

    How many times have we has National saying we need to open the borders and Australia were doing a better job.

    • SPC 8.1
      16 July 2020 at 10:04 am

      I have no objection to foreign students coming in, BUT

      1. residents and citizens who want back in have priority and essential skilled workers have priority to managed isolation/quarantine.

      2. we have housing (returning Kiwis) and work availability limitations so cannot take the numbers of students on the terms we did before.

      For mine we have first obligation to masters students and doctorate students here in 2019, then second to year 3 students of 2019. We would have to ban them from working here (they would have to borrow in their home country for study and living costs). This would reduce takers down to the level we could house in student hostels (quarantine in this accommodation in 2021 pre student year start).

      • OnceWasTim 8.1.1
        16 July 2020 at 4:41 pm

        Generally agree BUT!

        it's probably high time we thought about the whole idea of citizenship/residency and what it means – especially now that it's become yet another commodity to be traded,

        You can have an immigrant that commits his/her entire life to a new economy/society, contributes in every way we'd expect of the next man/woman – often not being able to vote after being resident knocking a decade.

        Meanwhile, you can have a true blue Koiwoi, whose chosen a life overseas. And now that the shit has hit the fan – naturally enough, they want to come "HOME". That Koiwoi might be the likes of someone that often posts on here with all His eternal wisdon from across the ditch (an economic refugee – the likes of a Dutton would render illigitimate); or the likes of a Thiel who will be flying in on whichever selection of passports He considers best to suit His purpose.

        The combinations and permutations are endless,

        But wha wha wha, I only ever meant to go overseas to earn a better crust so I could come back to NuZull to invest my wealth in my "Home".

    • Just Is 8.2
      16 July 2020 at 10:08 am

      Reti is an idiot

      He speakith with fork tounge.

    • SPC 8.3
      16 July 2020 at 10:32 am

      I also favour an aspect of the Oz regime

      All those in the first week should be confined to their room – keeping the first week intake and the second week intake separate is important.

      I would however go further

      1. Week 2 day 8, day 9, day 10, day 11 day 12 day 13 and day 14 would be allowed out of their rooms at different times.

      2. Staff would required to maintain social distancing while off duty (because of the risk of being infected and spreading in the community). And pay them extra (and also future paid leave – post 2 week self isolation, a month off). It's money well spent.

  9. lprent 9
    16 July 2020 at 9:29 am

    Looks like jetpack had a timeout on the site whilst doing an update this morning.

  10. Just Is 10
    16 July 2020 at 10:05 am

    Hoskings loses defamation case from Tamahere, had to publicly apologise on Air and pay an undisclosed sum to Tamahere, for which he donated directly to the Maori Party.

    The money was paid by Hoskings employer.

    Couldn't provide link as the the remainder of the story was behind a paywall, sorry.

    But good news for Justice.

    • Gabby 10.1
      16 July 2020 at 12:09 pm

      Surely Horeskin wouldn't let someone pay rather than taking responsibility for his actions, surely. Will he get someone to apologise on his behalf as well?

  11. RedLogix 11
    16 July 2020 at 10:34 am

    An interesting update on some common assumptions:

    More than 20 countries will see their populations halve by the end of the century, with the world population peaking in 2064 before facing decline.

    Even more interestingly is that we are heading into a demographic inversion, an era when there are more older people than younger. This is totally unmapped territory for the human race, we've never been here before and none of our economic models are calibrated for it.

    As fertility falls and life expectancy increases worldwide, the number of children under five is forecast to decline by more than 40 per cent, from 681 million in 2017 to 401 million in 2100, the study found.

    At the other end of the spectrum, 2.37 billion people — more than a quarter of the global population — will be over 65 years old by then.

    Those over 80 will balloon from about 140 million today to 866 million. Sharp declines in the number and proportion of the working-age population will also pose huge challenges in many countries.

    It's not clear that either capitalism or socialism (or any of the 'isms) are going to work in this new world, at least not in their current formulations.

    • SPC 11.1
      16 July 2020 at 11:04 am

      All pre pandemic thinking (old people at risk) …

      and with no awareness of the risk of super bugs (antibiotics into Chinese pigs still) on the ability of hospitals to provide old people with new knees hips etc.

      Global warming impact on old age health … nothing …

      Sure contracpetion and education reduce the amount of children women have, but egg storage and looser rules about surrogacy may mitigate that.

    • Robert Guyton 11.2
      16 July 2020 at 11:10 am

      Yes, RedLogix – that's super-interesting and not surprising (to me). What's forming ahead for us humans? It can't be described (imo). Exciting times.

    • RedBaronCV 11.3
      16 July 2020 at 11:31 am

      Frankly it's not the "being old" that matters it's being too frail and needing care.Keeping older people in work, even if only part week , does a lot to mitigate these demographics.

      We should even now be actively trying to keep people producing, their health and education is a sunk cost so get all the benefits we can from them.

      • gsays 11.3.1
        16 July 2020 at 12:39 pm

        Maybe not work as such but volunteering.

        Most community groups are screaming for help.

        If not front line tasks then possibly support roles or back office duties: bookkeeping, marketing, promotional work.

        • Sabine 11.3.1.1
          16 July 2020 at 1:24 pm

          all that work and no pay.

          how are the dear olds to keep themselves in housing with a running heater and three sandwiches a day?

          Oh that is something else, right for that they can stay a few hours in a line at the local Winz office.

          Back office work should be paid work.

        • RedBaronCV 11.3.1.2
          17 July 2020 at 12:04 am

          Why not paid work. Most of them are not gaga yet. Just hanging out on the standard making typo's

    • woodart 11.4
      16 July 2020 at 12:07 pm

      japan has been going through this for 20 yrs. aging and static,or shrinking population, leads to lower consumer consumption. a sustainable economy and environment is being forced on them.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.5
      16 July 2020 at 5:24 pm

      That was projected back in 1972 in Limits to Growth.

  12. Peter 12
    16 July 2020 at 10:40 am

    Hosking:

    "I partially admire Muller. It takes real courage to so openly admit defeat and walk. Mind you, it's an astonishing lack of awareness of your own inabilities to not be able to see that you are not up for it in the first place, if it only takes 50-odd days to fall on your sword.

    Me:

    I admire Muller. It takes real courage to put yourself out there and stand for Parliament. And to stand as leader of a political party. It takes some sort of courage to so openly admit defeat and walk.

    I admire Mike Hosking. It's an astonishing awareness of your own abilities and lack of them which sees you not put yourself out there and stand for Parliament. Or stand to be leader of a political party. Being able to see that you are not up for it takes some awareness.

    I just wish he'd shut the fuck up about those who have the courage to try to do something constructive about what they believe in.

    Hosking could fall onto swords for 50 odd days or be pushed onto 50 of them he'd still come up without the awareness that the least of the MPs in their contribution to our society is of exponentially more value to us than him and his sad offerings.

  13. joe90 13
    16 July 2020 at 11:16 am

    Somewhere, there's a Reichstag on fire …

  14. Pat 14
    16 July 2020 at 11:22 am

    a completely bizarre news conference….world has gone mad.

    • Red Blooded One 14.1
      16 July 2020 at 11:49 am

      OMG, so Trumpiun, "I spoke to all members, gosh it was a long night" All about her. Who gives a Monkey's f**k Judith if you had a long night, it's the job you wanted, you don't think the PM hasn't had a few late nights in the last few years. Oh and by the way Judith, your already dog whistling to the Far-Right, (Woke, nothing wrong with being white, etc) tells the world your obvious allegiances. The doubling down on Nasty National is well on track.

      • Chris 14.1.1
        16 July 2020 at 1:16 pm

        No idiot MPs behind her pulling stupid faces. Is that deliberate or because nobody wants to be seen supporting her?

        • Red Blooded One 14.1.1.1
          16 July 2020 at 1:23 pm

          yes I've never seen a group of people look more like hostages than that first Press Conference. lol

  15. RedBaronCV 15
    16 July 2020 at 11:54 am

    Stuff meant to be above this sort of clickbait.

    Henry Cooke failing to point out that national is a policy free zone too or even worse that if in power they do stuff that they have never even mentioned. Also portrays Jacinda's refusal to comment on the Nact drama's as "being above the election".

    There's plenty of sharp analysis they could do but this isn't it.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300057912/jacinda-ardern-looks-to-stay-above-electoral-politics–and-judith-collins

    • weka 15.1
      16 July 2020 at 12:29 pm

      Looks like solid analysis to me. While I understand JA's strategy around 'we're the safe and competent govt who will be reelected', telling the electorate she's not really thinking about the election is kind of alarming.

      That National have been light on policy doesn't mean it's ok for any party to be incl Labour. Cooke is saying Collins will refocus Nat back on policy and that Labour will have to do this too. These seems right to me. I assume Labour intend to release policy as we get closer to the election, and also that they've had a lot on their plate so it makes sense that there would be delays. But a policy light election would not serve NZ at this time.

      • RedBaronCV 15.1.1
        16 July 2020 at 12:35 pm

        I wonder if after the last election Labour will hang off until after National releases policy in an area. Then they can attack and release their own. Much as nat did last time.

        But since what we get from the Nats in power rarely resembles any policy they may release pre election do we gain anything from it

        I still feel – without examing sources – that refusing to discuss Nats drama’s has been twisted out of shape.

        • weka 15.1.1.1
          16 July 2020 at 12:39 pm

          it will certainly be interesting to see how different parties campaign this year, given the disruption from the pandemic.

          I'm glad our election is well ahead of the US one, but I expect Collins to use whatever Trumpian politics she can to increase Nat's vote. It's not going to be pretty.

  16. mauī 16
    16 July 2020 at 12:40 pm

    The disarray in National is a godsend for the new New Zealand new Sustainable new Party led by Vernon Tava.

    Come in Vern… Don't fade away into obscurity… Lots of soft right wing voters to suck up. If you want to get over 5%, this is your time! 😆

  17. greywarshark 17
    16 July 2020 at 1:10 pm

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/421331/harvesters-fear-for-industry-as-temporary-workers-visa-expiration-looms

    Can Labour get onto this right away and recruit reliable and fit people and pay them decently with pocket money on the job, and main income covering family costs (so doesn't get scooped up by predatory drug sellers).They should have good warm accommodation, good meals, good transport to and from, and guaranteed good income support between jobs and break time off with families if they have to travel away to fill jobs? Give the good, reliable ones special standing so that they will be available next season.

    Could unions widen their interest in the working and non-working lower income members of society and also try to facilitate people into work by providing an employment agency, under their umbrella which would help workers organise themselves to fill vacancies, and have regular work along with transport and accommodation, and keep themselves working throughout the year. The state is supposed to be helping with this, but the news about WINZ treatment does not sound like good service for those needing employment.

    Labour could facilitate this by helping with training, and ensuring reasonable conditions, and decent financial support between jobs. The emphasis these days seems to be on computer skills being highly regarded, yet in reality the employers appreciate people who are fit, capable, stick to the task and do it competently and reliably. Why can't a workforce doing physical work earn gold stars and be highly regarded for matching the above criteria?

  18. Peter chch 18
    16 July 2020 at 1:14 pm

    and some people still believe the NZ Police are not corrupt:

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/122151285/fresh-probe-launched-into-top-cop-simon-felthams-speeding

    And how does it take 'several months' to even 'investigate' whether or not he was speeding? That in itself is a corruption of process.

    If the Police are losing respect, they have only themselves to blame.

  19. Muttonbird 19
    16 July 2020 at 1:23 pm

    Yesterday on Ryan Bridge's radio show Judith Collins had a mini-meltdown because Jacinda Ardern apparently hadn't acknowledged, to her satisfaction, Collins' climbing over of bodies and rise to power.

    Ryan Bridge must not have believed how easily he was able to excite Judith, much like the way a dog owner rattles the lead to say it's 'walkies'.

    Anyway, today JA paid tribute to Kaye. I hope it was deliberately pointed, along with being a nice thing to do.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12348495

  20. greywarshark 20
    16 July 2020 at 1:38 pm

    https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=2694860513

    Very nice pencil drawing of PM Jacinda and fellow Covid-19 slayer Chief Executive, Ministry of Health Ashley Bloomfield – for up on a wall in pride of place as was Michael Savage!

    • Herodotus 20.1
      16 July 2020 at 3:42 pm

      MJS white New Zealand and sinophobia attitudes, when viewed in today’s environment could tarnish the gravitas that he is viewed by some. Hint he doesn’t endear himself to all ethnicities.

      Perhaps it may make some to view those historic figures and their achievements in context of their time, place and social forms.

      • greywarshark 20.1.1
        17 July 2020 at 7:32 pm

        Jeez it must be great to be perfect and never be accused of copping someone's sensibilities. That will be a big value for tech speak – you will speak normally into a box and it will filter out your words to something that cannot offend anybody. Save lots of hazzle, that's hassle and razzle dazzle mixed; ie the sort of world that we try to survive in today. It's a jungle out here.

  21. Muttonbird 21
    16 July 2020 at 3:02 pm

    Covid-19 coronavirus: Victoria's outbreak surges to grim high of 317 new cases

    This would be New Zealand by November under a National-led government.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12348584

    • Draco T Bastard 21.1
      16 July 2020 at 3:22 pm

      Pretty much. National will open up the borders so that their funders can make higher profits while not caring about the damage that they will do to the people.

      But, then, that's what National always does in one way or another.

      • Stunned Mullet 21.1.1
        16 July 2020 at 4:21 pm

        What is the current opposition position on the borders ?

        • Gabby 21.1.1.1
          16 July 2020 at 4:31 pm

          Dog In a Manger position I believe is the yoga term.

        • Draco T Bastard 21.1.1.2
          16 July 2020 at 5:17 pm

          I haven't heard them changing from open them up as fast as possible while ignoring how bad things are getting for those places that they want to open up to.

          • Stunned Mullet 21.1.1.2.1
            16 July 2020 at 6:02 pm

            Where were they saying that have you got a link ?

            • Drowsy M. Kram 21.1.1.2.1.1
              16 July 2020 at 6:24 pm

              May not be what you’re after – best I could do with a quick Google.

              "NZ should open borders to countries with Covid – Muller"
              https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/nz-should-open-borders-countries-covid-muller

            • Incognito 21.1.1.2.1.2
              16 July 2020 at 9:56 pm

              Have you tried the revamped National website? It’s a treasure trove of what National wants this Government to do or not do pronto.

              • Stunned Mullet …
                16 July 2020 at 10:36 pm

                I thought it was usual practice at this site that when one makes a claim such as….

                Pretty much. National will open up the borders so that their funders can make higher profits while not caring about the damage that they will do to the people.

                that they provide a link supporting that assertion. A quick search on google suggests that the assertion by the commenters is incorrect.

                https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12348318

                • Incognito …
                  16 July 2020 at 11:25 pm

                  As you know, National changes their stand on the border situation more often than a puber changes undies. For the latest updates, visit NP website, Twitter, or FB accounts.

                  • stunned mullet …
                    17 July 2020 at 8:03 am

                    Congratulations you have equalled gabby in the unctuous twattery stakes.

                    Perhaps with a little more effort you'll reach Morrissey's heights.

                    • Incognito …
                      17 July 2020 at 3:06 pm

                      I’ll do just about anything to avoid you from being expelled from TS because of your own smart-arsery, but I won’t do that.

    • Enough is Enough 21.2
      16 July 2020 at 3:37 pm

      Isn't the Victorian government Labor?

  22. anker 22
    16 July 2020 at 4:11 pm

    Biggest lol today a comment on the National Party's FB feed. "Its official. More MP's have abandoned National than returnees have absconded from isolation

    Lol

  23. outofbed 23
    16 July 2020 at 4:23 pm

    So been out in Wellington and just heard the real reason Todd Muller resigned. OMG

    Out of respect for both parties and their families I won't repeat the names here.

    But did Judith blackmail them ? That is the question

    • Andre 23.1
      16 July 2020 at 4:39 pm

      You're such a tease.

      • outofbed 23.1.1
        16 July 2020 at 4:46 pm

        Ok If I must. Todd has being going to AA regularly and he doesn't drink 🙂

        • Red Blooded One 23.1.1.1
          16 July 2020 at 5:34 pm

          I don't think it's fair the ongoing attacks of Clarke rumours and I think we should keep away from that sort of thing. If there are real reasons (facts) to announce, go for it, and announce it, I'll be just as interested as anyone, otherwise it's just gossip.

  24. Gabby 24
    16 July 2020 at 4:53 pm

    Wallace tackling the big issues today. Tickling. Fucksake.

  25. OnceWasTim 25
    16 July 2020 at 4:58 pm

    Just by the way @ Mozza:

    Did today's The Panel cause any sort of trauma? I thought it was rather gorgeous despite all the "Ha ha ha's" and really deep thought. I'll lay awake tonight thinking about it.

    I persevered listening to it all while you were probably taking down every word to use against the participants in future (just because I don't have a life).

    Just be careful ya don't denigrate MY Queen of the media (Kim Hill) or you'll have me to answer to – in this space going forward

  26. Peter 26
    16 July 2020 at 5:27 pm

    Gerry Brownlee was brilliant in his RNZ interview this afternoon. (He asked at one stage if it was an interrogation.)

    He was brilliant because he was doing an impression of an arrogant arsehole. He carried it off wonderfully.

    • ScottGN 26.1
      16 July 2020 at 5:32 pm

      He let Lisa sidetrack him into talking about the failures of the Christchurch rebuild which was a lovely example of how political baggage can weigh you down.

    • Red Blooded One 26.2
      16 July 2020 at 5:38 pm

      Was just listening, lucky she wasn't standing at the top of stairs, his defensive bullying won't make him many media friends. except Hoskings, maybe.

    • Pat 26.3
      16 July 2020 at 5:51 pm

      It was standard Brownlee and the way hes dealt with interviews for years….it hasnt held his career back to date so theres no reason to expect it will suddenly begin to now.

      He appeals to a certain cohort

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilam_(New_Zealand_electorate)

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