Two differing accounts of the missile strike on Poland. Whether this missile strayed off course or was a deliberate attack on a Nato country, CNN reports it was concurrent with a "Wave of missile strikes" on Ukraine.
Two deaths reported in Polish border town, as a wave of Russian missiles hit Ukraine
…..they landed in the NATO member’s territory roughly the same time as Russia launched its biggest wave of missile attacks on Ukrainian cities in more than a month……
I don't have to guess what details will follow: Going on their past MO Russia will accuse Ukraine of staging the attack on Poland to try and bring Nato into the war.
I don't think Russia would have any interest in firing missiles at Poland so, either they were intended for Ukraine but Russia's aim was not accurate, or it was a "false flag" move by Ukraine, though for what purpose is unclear.
Accident or not on the part of Russia, NATO, or Poland directly, has little choice but to make a strong response to this situation because otherwise Russia will see it as a green light to keep targeting Nato countries.
I agree that the NATO response probably won't be a direct military response at this stage.
But there will have to be a credible strong response that is sufficient to deter Russia from doing that again.
Ukraine probably will get better weapons now as a result of this. I think they should get the long range ATACM missiles they have been asking for for ages. This will allow them to target the Russian air bases and launch sites the Russians are using for these attacks. Thus, further protect Ukraine, and NATO countries as well.
Ukraine has previously called for a free fly zone over at least a part of Ukraine. With this attack on a NATO member country, a free fly zone over the Western half of Ukraine bordering Poland and Moldova, makes a lot of sense.
……Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy virtually addressed the United States Congress on March 16, 2022, and, as widely expected, requested additional U.S. military assistance for Ukraine.
Zelenskyy also asked for the U.S. to create a no-fly zone over some portion, or potentially all, of Ukraine.
“Russia has turned the Ukrainian sky into a source of death for thousands of people. Russian troops have already fired nearly 1,000 missiles at Ukraine, countless bombs. They use drones to kill us with precision. This is a terror Europe has not seen for 80 years,” said Zelenskyy, delivering the first virtual address by a foreign leader to Congress….
…..“Is this a lot to ask, to create a no fly zone over Ukraine to save people? Is this too much to ask? A humanitarian non-fly zone, so that Russia would not be able to terrorize our free cities,” Zelenskyy continued.
Zelenskyy paused during his address to play a video documenting the war in Ukraine. That video ended with the words, “close the skies over Ukraine.”
Not much point to a no-fly zone as the Ukrainians effectively have that now. In fact, in some areas, the Ukrainian airforce has been dominant. So, a nofly zone would simply penalise the Ukrainians.
Russian planes hardly dare go into Ukrainian air-space due to the bristilling air defence. The missiles tend to be fired by Russian planes outside of Ukrainian air space.
I think what they need to be supplied is longer-range precision missiles such as ATACMs so they can take out the missiles before they are even launched. This would mean targeting Russian air bases and the like.
If the missiles can be taken out before launch, that reduces the risk of Russian missiles to Nato countries as well.
I felt for the war porn aficionados today, waking to news Russia had bombed Poland. At their keyboards, typing one handed, only to end the day with Biden pouring cold water on the idea.
Three U.S. officials said preliminary assessments suggested the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian one amid the crushing salvo against Ukraine’s electrical infrastructure Tuesday. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.
Though out of range for direct fire from Russian territory, there are many S300s in Belarus, which for a long time was the chief manufacturing centre for them. And Russia has used S300 missiles on ground targets before.
Having failed militarily, Russia would love to prise Ukraine away from its allies and supporters by creating an incident.
A while ago there was talk of how hard it is to get positive messages through in a world of highly partisan politics, disinformation, and the usual problems of gotcha media going for cheap shots and false balance . . .
I suspect we get a lot of news and comment through the internet; leaving aside the faults of official media, we now have many websites that peddle personal opinions that are at times extreme. The following is a list of sites that I collected over a few days of websites that appear to cover political issues to at least some extent. They include what appear to be a return of dirty tricks, to deliberately deceptive sites, to those expressing extreme or even deranged opinions from authors that appear to have fallen down a rabbit hole. I tried to decide where each lay on a scale or -10 for negative views of the current government, to +10 for those consistently positive about the current government. I have not included Facebook of other "social media," and I may have missed some that are worth looking at – I certainly hope there are other sites with high positive or good balance like The Standard!
Although it is an 'interesting' list it is duplicated (!?) and I can't see the alleged ranking from −10 to +10 for views on the current Government in it!?
I would not encourage this sort of comments, also because they need to be released manually from the Spam trap.
Early last week my SO arrived home home from work rather distressed after a row with the boss over refusing to attend a regional meeting. Turns out one of the traveling attendees was covid positive and today three of the local staff attending have tested positive. One, for the third time, and there will probably be more.
Unlikely to be reported in our usual media, so you may be unaware of the incident at the Let Women Speak rally, in New York on Monday 14 November.
Now the format for a Let Women Speak rally, is that the organiser – Kellie Jay Keen – turns up with a microphone and sound system and basically emcees an open mike, for women that want to talk. There's little curating of who speaks, if any. It is purely an event to encourage women to speak up on the impact on women's rights of legislative and policy changes. You can view previous rallies on the livestream of KJK's Youtube channel:
KJK was invited to the US, and took the format over there, and arranged rallies in public spaces – such as in front of New York town hall. A couple of events had to be cancelled due to the threats made to the women. Security was hired, and then unevidenced criticism was made that security was right-wing and aligned with fascists.
Each event was advertised by Gender Ideology Activists as a hate event, and and open invitations were issued for people to turn up and do anything they considered necessary to address that hate.
The perpetually oppressed never stop to consider that they are not stopped from marching by women (Brisbane this last weeekend) – but they are appalled at the idea of women publicly expressing their opinions, or gathering.
So, what happened in New York?
Due to the aggressive nature of the gender ideology proponents, many women, including KJK were unable to get to the event to speak.
Belissa Cohen – a LGB activist posted this video that gives some insight into what is happening with these activists:
From the left, the topless three are notable for:
1. A good example of autogynephilia – a man so preoccupied with his hormone induced breast growth, he is indulging in his sexual arousal in public with no awareness of the protest around him, apart from the opportunity it gives him for exhibitionism;
2. A trans-identified female – complete with double mastectomy scars, demonstrating a hatred for women by calling out to them either "bleeders" or "breeders". There are several videos of this group and one is of this woman declaring that she didn't want to be a woman, and how she is a boy who loves testosterone. (NB. Testosterone is a powerful drug – with euphoric effects for some). This woman was also a child model from the age of ten, which may have affected her experience of what female is, and how it is represented;
3. The last contender has been identified as a prominent and feted trans-identified male. Employed also as a model and mentor of LGBTQ+ people, he spent much of the protest spitting on people he found objectionable (women) and declaring he was going to beat their asses, bitch.
I'm always interested to hear (from those who refrain from scrolling past) the updated excuses for why 1 and 3 are vulnerable, and why women should unquestioningly make space for them in women's single-sex spaces and provisions.
And also why men can't just hold safe spaces in their own single-sex spaces for their trans-identified brothers.
"Indecent exposure is a crime, and the laws are in place to deal with this, no matter the gender identity of the criminal."
Apparently baring your breasts in NYC is not indecent exposure. Spitting at people might be however. Breasts don't bother me much, TBH, the thought of someone's saliva has more to be concerned about in this day and age, don't you think?
"Yes, there are bad trans people. There are bad gay people and bad cishet people."
I don't disagree – apart from the cishet – I don't follow this belief so the term is nonsensical. You might have just stated the obvious, some people are bad.
Did you miss the part when I said that No. 3 was a well-known and profiled activist and mentor?
So not a random idiot, a promoted spokeperson for the community.
"You need to remember that the teachers who offended that Dilworth were all cisgender men."
Why do you assume I have forgotten?
Is it because you "forget" that all transwomen are men?
No comment on the antagonism shown by the non-rally attendees only?
Or the public display of the often denied aspect of autogynephilia?
Or the fear and hate directed at women who are gathering to speak their opinions in a public space?
Thanks for providing yet another example of redirection and totally ignoring the content of the issue at hand.
I don't think we should be tarring all transgender people with the same brush.
Who do you think is doing that? I'm not seeing anyone here doing that. I wouldn't even tar all AGP with the same brush.
You need to remember that the teachers who offended that Dilworth were all cisgender men.
So close and yet still not quite getting it. Yes, most people who sexually offend are male. This is exactly why we have female only spaces. It doesn't mean all men, or even most, are sexual offenders, it means that if we stop thinking about men for a minute and look at this from the perspective of women, we see that the most straight forward way of protecting women from the high rates of sexual assault and harrassment by men is to arrange society so that women have female only spaces.
I've not seen any evidence that trans women or other trans-identified males sexually offend at a lower rate than the general male population. Again, this doesn't mean all or even most TW are sexual offenders. It means that when we consider the safety of women, we should consider males of whatever gender identity as the class that women need protecting from.
The safety of TW can be addressed likewise, without removing the safety of women.
"Cishet" displays your fealty to Gender Ideology. Humans are not divided into 2 categories based on a supposed relationship with their sexed bodies. Forced division without approval or permission is insulting and oppressive.
"cis" or "cisgender" is another term for virtually everyone.
Invented largely for political reasons within Queer Theory & Gender Studies … it seeks to massively exaggerate the size of the trans community while inherently downplaying the relevance of biological sex.
For Gender ideologues, cisgender means that one's "gender identity" and "sex assigned at birth" (as opposed to biological sex) match up.
"Sex assigned at birth" is seen as an act of power, indeed of deliberate violence … so, specifying "sex assigned at birth" instead of biological sex allows these activists to maintain the Queer Theory dogmas that (1) sex itself is socially constructed and that (2) sex categorisation is illegitimatelyimposed on new-born babies by Doctors, Parents & others who supposedly possess sociopolitical power … (rather than biological sex being a simple fact of human reality).
In other words, they're total fantasists (in the same way that Critical Theory / Woke ideologues are in general) … and very controlling, demanding, authoritarian fantasists at that.
Obviously we aren't but the trans movement has been infiltrated by violent and misogynistic men who are using it to get away with stuff. Self ID laws and the like have not taken this into account.
at this stage I wouldn't say infiltrated so much as welcomed with open arms. Left wing men defacto arguing that rape of women in prison is an acceptable price to pay for keeping TW safe. Left wing women saying that rape survivors need to manage their triggers better when males come into their single sex spaces. It's not like the evidence hasn't been there, presented by the pariah feminists. Even before self ID. The choices were made to put aside the concerns of women, and make the changes anyway.
#1 and #3 in other vids, it took me a while to figure out exactly the problem here (because we know that women use nudity as part of protest). What they look like to me are men who want the right to masturbate in public. Any conversation about trans women's rights that doesn't included discussion of AGP is a fail.
#2, the trans man is someone presumably who hates their female body to the extent that they had their breasts removed to make their life tolerable. Society needs to stop and consider if people with such degrees of mental distress should be driving policy and social change.
on reflection, it's not simply the right to masturbate in public, it's the right to do so at women they hate. I'm struggling to think of worse public expression of misogyny than that video.
That the police didn't intervene is both astounding and scary in its implications. Haven't looked at NY indecency laws.
Last time I checked men going shirtless was not considered public nudity. I don't think failing to invent a crime is really a good basis for police criticism here.
The NYPD seemed to respond appropriately throughout the day, calling in special operations unit to disperse the crowd and providing human barriers between the small group of women and the crowd.
It's always a judgment call on the day. I don't think they did much that can be genuinely criticised.
did you miss the bit in my comments where I differentiated between nudity and obscenity? In this case, public self pleasuring sexually is an act that involves others without their consent. I don't know if indecency laws cover what that man is doing, as I said in my comment.
And of course, we know that women don't generally behave like this, and that there are hefty societal and physical risk pressures that prevent women from having the freedom to be in public topless.
There’s also the issue of what would happen to the police of they reacted to the men as if they were men. But I’m guessing there is no topless law in NY for either men or women.
"What they look like to me are men who want the right to masturbate in public."
Another regular activist who attended yesterday (with previous record of doxxing women), might confirm your suspicions.
(I know many here might not believe it, but I don't post the most contentious pictures or videos I come across, I posted the one above because of the role the third one has in the community, while publicly threatening women with violence).
The following video from the same event, posted by a women's right activist (not one I particularly agree with) with a AGP enjoying the simulation of masturbation maybe a bit too much at the end:
Was interesting to note how the different cultures responded to the same format. Really noticeable distinctions between the women speaking at the UK events and the US ones.
Along this train of thought, while I was looking into the issues of consent and the mixed messages regarding intimate relationships from many of the LGBTQ+ support organisations, I watched part of a programme about transgender people finding love.
I didn't watch it all, there was a featured piece about a well-known transgender teenage dream couple that had finally split up after promoting their transgender identities and relationship status during their teenage years. It turned out that there was little or no physical intimacy, and that their relationship was more performative than personal.
However, there was a particularly memorable young trans-identified male, who had been supported during their transition by a close male friend over the years. They had finally got the courage to directly ask their supportive male friend, now that they had finished their transition, whether they could take their friendship to a personal relationship.
The response was immediate and definite: it was better if they kept their connection to friendship only.
A couple of thoughts struck me when I watched this segment, and saw the change in demeanour of the young trans-identified man:
What if – this young man was one of the many gay teenagers who had developed a crush on their heterosexual close friend? What if both the personal homosexuality and unrequited nature of that crush, were avoided by the promise of becoming a woman, and therefore a possible romantic partner of the afore mentioned crush?
The friend – unwittingly supporting that notion by his support of a female gender identity – and all the transitional changes made, but whose heterosexual orientation meant that despite it all – he was not ever going to be an intimate relationship option.
It was quite devastating to watch. A good friend of mine, related his long-time crush on his best friend as the catalyst for realising his sexual orientation. I wonder how the young gay men in similar situations are doing now.
Some of the vitriol displayed at events might come from the realisation of the failure to deliver on the unspoken promises of full recognition alluded to in public policy and legislation, and what is experienced at individual personal level.
Thanks Molly. Your question “why women should make space for these people” is bang on. I am afraid I could only watch so much of the (exhibitionist, likely autogynophile) person waving their breast around.
I'm probably a bit jaded, but the antics of the AGP struck me as someone particularly unskilled in the handling of breasts in a sexually stimulating way. I figure, at least he inflicts that lack of expertise only on himself and not anybody else.
He is in multiple videos of the day and the reality is – his behaviour never gets any better.
"Nelson’s counsel, Glenn Dixon, said his client, a transgender woman, had been in Spring Hill Prison but was now incarcerated in Auckland Women’s Prison. There, she felt safer and was motivated to engage in drug and alcohol rehabilitative programmes, as well as a business and creativity course.
Prior to the restaurant incident, Nelson had been arrested on other charges as well as a subsequent breach of bail. She had been evicted from her bail address, and had soon afterwards made the decision to go to the restaurant, where the assaults happened."
Prior to the restaurant incident, Nelson had been arrested on other charges as well as a subsequent breach of bail. She had been evicted from her bail address, and had soon afterwards made the decision to go to the restaurant, where the assaults happened.
Nelson was “an extraordinarily complex person, one of the most complex that this counsel has experienced”, Dixon said.
We really need a specialised unit for trans people.
Relieved to see Stuff reporting on the gender transition so it's clear they are male.
As the court was told, she now prefers to go by the name Pandora Electra
Wake up people on the left. The gender ideology movement is not progressive at all. It's harming women and its prioritizing men like Nelson over vulnerable women prisoners.
"Very complex" may be an understatement. There is a high incident of co-morbidity with other psychological conditions among today's self identified male trans people. The trans identified men in British prisons are far more likely (over 40%) to be there for sex related offences than the rest of the male prison population.
It is not just men in women's prisons and other spaces – it is the worst kind of men in women's spaces.
it's also possible that societal factors like transphobia, homophobia, and sanctions against effeminate behaviour in men may mean it's more likely that trans women and TIMs end up doing sex work. In the same way that we see sexual abuse and poverty makes it more likely for women to end up doing sex work.
I'd also like to know how that plays out with AGP men and violence. Pity No Debate means we won't be getting much good research for a while.
My thesis here is that patriarchal conditioning and conditions create violence in TIMs like it does with other men. Different dynamics.
As Molly said, why aren't men making male spaces safer?
Because these people do not want to be safe in male spaces or third spaces. They want to be in womens spaces, as women.
Male spaces and bathrooms are no more and no less dangerous for transpeople then female spaces. I mean self ID opens the door to all men, at all times, to all female spaces and thus the same men that were feared by transpeople in the male spaces will now have access to them in the female spaces. Its bs. They want access to female spaces because they want to be women, and they can only be fully women if they get to play the full game, women sports, women awards, women jobs, women rape counseling, women breastfeeding, woman everything, nothing less will do. Ditto for Transmen, they want to be men. And the rest of the population has to go along with it by hook or by crook.
But a few people will profit of this regressive misery covered in kindness, it will set women – adult human female – set back into the 1700 and further back even – removed from public record and medical texts, denial of the labour of their body, and it for sure will teach women – human born female of all ages – their place in society.
Don't you think that our future as the large gamete producers is bright and rosy?
If you think that the prisons in NZ are so dangeorus you should voice your concern with the MP who looks after Corrections. It is up to government to regulate and then assure the safety of all prisoners who are held in the care of government.
Incarcerated women are not body shields.
How many women would need to get harmed in prison by men – who may or may not be transwomen – for you to consider the safety of women?
"If you think that the prisons in NZ are so dangeorus you should voice your concern with the MP who looks after Corrections."
I dont think the government gives a shit about the safety of our prisoners, regardless of biological sex, gender identity or sexual orientation. For the past 20-30 years, both parties have imported US penal policies into this country, which is bascially stick prisoners in a cage and watch while they tear each other apart. This is largely due to the lobbying of the likes of Garth McVicar and Norm Withers, both of whom actively condone the rape and shanking of weaker prisoners by the strong ones as that is part of the 'punishment' factor of prisons.
And yet you like the government seem to have no fuck to give about safety of women in prisons.
Men – irrespective of their self identification should never be locked up in prison with women. And to do so, is to show that absolutly no regards for the wellbeing and the safety – from rape and pregnancy – of the women is given. But then maybe the rape of a woman – human born female – is acceptable to some on the left in order to protect a male from male violence that seems to be state sanctioned and / or permitted.
A transgender inmate at Christchurch Women's Prison is being held in isolation while facing several allegations from fellow inmates, including one of sexual assault.
Below is the prisoner you are insisting on placing with females with nowhere to run:
Nelson quickly targeted another worker, a female who was later revealed to be Nelson’s ex-girlfriend. He slashed her in the face and stabbed her in the upper back, causing her to suffer a punctured lung. Despite her horrific injuries, the woman managed to run out of the building and flee for help at a nearby gas station.
I note that Putin and his supporters now view the war in Ukraine as a war for 'traditional values' against 'western decadance' (LGBTQ) with some pro Russian supporters wanting an open alliance between Orthodox Christian, Confucian Chinese and Wahabist Islam in some kind of 'Holy War'.
It is starting to look like the missile strikes on Poland may have been due to stray Ukrainian air defence missiles, or a Russian missile deflected by air defence.
So, that part may be an accident.
What wasn't an accident was oil supplies to both Hungary and Slovakia (NATO members) were cut due to Russia hitting infrastructure in Ukraine that is used for the piping of oil through to those countries. So, perhaps at least an indirect attack on Nato.
The EU and NATO need to make sure that this doesn't blow up out of hand. As much as I dislike Putin, I don't think it is worth turning Europe into a radioactive wasteland just to get one up on him.
Time to make a submission on the proposal on restricting agricultural emissions is running out. This is an opportunity to make sure we as a country do what is necessary to meet our international obligations as well as incentivising more environmentally friendly agricultural practices which will benefit us all:
Submissions close this Friday 18 November and the Green Party has put together a submission guide with background information and key points to make it easy for you to have your say.
We have the opportunity to become the first country in the world to tackle agricultural emissions at the source, but we need to push the Government to act, and not cave to agribusiness.
Right now, every submission counts.
Your submission can be as detailed or simple as you have time for.
The BAU TINA agribusinesses will be making submissions, we can outnumber theirs and send a message that will strengthen the Governments resolve. Nature, and the future, need us to advocate for them.
National later U-turned on that remark, clarifying that Luxon misspoke and had not intended to U-turn on that particular policy. He was in fact talking about the clean car standard, an emissions standard for vehicle importers.
National opposed that policy too, meaning Luxon has still U-turned on a policy today – just not the policy he said he was U-turning on.
Not a performance of a leader who is confident of wandering far from his script at all. Not a word or an aside that wasn’t scripted. Also shows his handlers lack of confidence.
The most racist, homophobic, transphobic, mysoginost, religious fundamentalist, anti abortion, anti union, anti welfare president in US history. The guy must be stopped. At all costs.
Agree with that – an authoritarian narcissist who periodically and unconvincingly pretends to be a religious fundamentalist, because it's politically expedient to do so.
Luxon is an interesting counterpoint to that – someone who is a religious fundamentalist but pretends not to be, because it's politically expedient to do so.
Says something about the two different political cultures I guess.
Mostly an attempt to delay the inevitable indictments coming his way. The Jan 6 committee will have to speed up their final report and recommendations with the House going GoP next year, but even some Repugnants possess principles. DoJ indictment still in the offing (even if a candidate) wrt mishandling of secret files.
Dems could run a puppy dog against him and win – he still doesn't understand that he is not as popular with the majority as he thinks he is – only the deluded.
This is not how change happens. Never has been. Never will be.
With disagreement even over the conference cover statement, 'Carried to Hell in a Handcart', might be a more efficient mode of transport to take us to the apocalypse than this *shemozzle.
Climate negotiations are in disarray as COP27 enters its second week
Talks in Sharm El Sheikh, Egypt, are running well behind schedule, with discussions on key areas such as loss and damage at a political impasse
This article has been viewed 247 times in the last 3 hours.
15 November 2022
…..behind-the-scenes negotiations are in disarray, with talks running well behind schedule….
……talks on the cover text – a political agreement traditionally struck at the end of a UN climate conference – are still in the very early stages.
Tory Whanau may be in trouble with the Greens. According to HDA, all the best jobs in council have gone to her mates. I don't know whether that's true, but nepotism is a Maori speciality.
''Wellington mayor Tory Whanau, whose independent campaign was endorsed by the Greens, has decided she will not renew her party membership, the Herald understands.
The key reason behind the move is so she can work more productively with councillors without a formal tie to a political party – but it could also ruffle feathers among those in the Green Party who helped her win the election.
Whanau has now spent almost six weeks in the city’s top job after she romped home with a convincing majority of 17,751 votes over the incumbent.
It was clear Whanau had a sense of which way the tide was turning a couple of weeks before election day, but such a strong majority certainly came as a surprise.
On the campaign trail, Whanau pitched herself as someone who could cross the political spectrum and bring people together. She pointed to her experience negotiating with New Zealand First when she was the Green Party’s chief of staff as an example of this.
Green Party councillor Laurie Foon is the deputy mayor, while two Labour councillors and one Green councillor will chair the council’s three big committees.
First-term Motukairangi Eastern Ward councillor Tim Brown told Newstalk ZB Wellington Mornings host Nick Mills he felt “slightly disconcerted” about the appointments.
It’s because they share her [Whanau’s] views, which I think is a good reason on her part, but of course means that the independent candidates sitting around the table are looking at the equation and thinking well if we don’t share her views, we’re going to be excluded.”
[Take a month off. You don’t seem to know what nepotism is and you simply indulged in baseless Māori bashing – Incognito]
It's common. Many problems of Maori v Maori rotates around people being appointed to some position, but other Maori saying they shouldn't be appointed because they belong to the wrong tribe, or have the wrong whakapapa. I said at the time, Auckland and Wellington councils would encounter problems.
You need to add more than your trite uncalled for comment.
How is Mark Mitchell? What else has he been up to? Is he backing Nicola Willis for leader or is he going himself? He didn’t say on the radio but I figured you’d know.
Mark Mitchell would be most worrying as National Partty leader. The guy would, in the words of Trotter, liberate the police, and police the liberals.
His desire to bring about US-style policing is well documented. I would imagine that Maori would be gunned down left right and centre by cops if he is allowed anywhere near cabiney.
You don’t give Kiwi cops much credit, do you? I’m pretty sure that for that to happen you’d need US cops with a US mind-set in a US context here in Aotearoa – New Zealand.
Waiting for a post: Luxon: Chicken Little or an Egg? on the clean car fleet. Polluters must meet their costs or we are paying them to do so. We’re picking up fossil awards while our neighbors in and outside NZ are seeing their property below water. The clean car work is not nearly enough, but it’s a basic step. Polluters must pay.
" Instead of free and universal provision, he wants people to go crawling to WINZ, with all the added pain and suffering that entails. Weirdly, he thinks that this isn't a deterrent – which I guess tells us either that he has never dealt with them, or that nine years on an MP's salary and six on a deputy prime minister's has destroyed all memory of it (and WINZ has got massively worse since Grant was a student) "
He said he did not think the fact the grants had to be applied for through Work and Income would deter people from applying for them.
"For low-income people, I'm sure the opportunity to be able to get the support for [dental care] is something that they will take up."
That sounds like someone who is totally out of touch.
I detest the National party but before you have a crack at them Greg what about your Labour party and their failures to their own people they solicit votes from then look the other way.
Now back to the RMA and Nationals policy failure's.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
year in extra funding and any additional investment needed to be weighed against other priorities in the health sector.
Instead of free and universal provision, he wants people to go crawling to WINZ, with all the added pain and suffering that entails. Weirdly, he thinks that this isn't a deterrent – which I guess tells us either that he has never dealt with them, or that nine years on an MP's salary and six on a deputy prime minister's has destroyed all memory of it (and WINZ has got massively worse since Grant was a student).
" "Going straight to universal dental care right away would be well over a billion dollars a year of extra funding, we have to weigh that up against the other things that are needed in the health system."
And Grant has ruled out a windfall tax that could pay for universal care and much more.
National is not in government but Grant and Jacinda are !
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
[looks like you’re also insisting on being modded for diversion trolling. This is your warning – Incognito]
There’s a first for everything. If you continue the efforts of a notorious diversion troll who had been warned and modded then, for all intents and purposes, I consider you also a diversion troll and will treat you as such.
You are free to say what you feel you have to say but you don’t have carte blanche to say it wherever (and however) you feel like here. You may also want to tone down on the personal snides when you ‘call out Labour’.
" You are free to say what you feel you have to say but you don’t have carte blanche to say it wherever (and however) you feel like here "
No you have that power Incognito by the way you and others decide what is acceptable on this site.
Its called freedom of expression which the government has not banned yet and I am not talking about anything illegal or malicious but the Standard has just has to look at the growing list of people driven out by being banned because they said something the moderators disagreed with.
The TDB has a number of contributors who are on topic and and aren't afraid to call the National party out while also revealing the increasing poverty and hardship still being experienced under Labour and their fiddling with statistics.
Personal snides ? you mean the attack on Chris Trotter on this site ?
I take it then that's acceptable if its one of your main contributors , or Lyn's
put down's against some of the correspondents who contribute here.
Addressing and correcting the very many points in your comment feels like cleaning the Augean stables. Suffice to say, as long as one adheres to this site’s Policy and takes heed of Moderator notes one can enjoy the generous freedom of commenting on TS to their heart’s content.
I hope this will help and I also hope you don’t draw unnecessary attention to yourself.
Good dental health, has such a positive effect on other health issues.
And the dental care offered by the school system is much less consistent or frequent than it was back in the 70s when every primary school had it's own dental clinic and nurse.
It would have been a good preventative health measure, and the cost of dental care is high or unaffordable for those with few discretionary funds.
Yes. I think it's the cost factor which has just driven it up out of reach of many middle-class (let alone working-class) kiwis.
I don't know what the answer is to this. Some of it is the bells-and-whistles (x-rays, etc.), which may improve the dental care – but all the equipment costs an arm-and-a-leg and has to be amortized across all of the patients. Some of it is the high cost of training, and then of staffing and operating dental surgeries.
I'd like to see a very low-cost, basic dental care option. Fillings (quick and cheap), extraction (if necessary), cleaning & scaling [which always sounds painful]. And conversations with the dentist which include what you can afford – rather than starting out with 'you need 5 crowns, at 1.5 K each'
I know that school dental care was massively backed up before Covid (my son missed the last 3 annual checkups at his school – because they simply prioritized kids who they felt were more likely to have issues). And, of course, virtually no preventive dental work was done over the last 2 years with Covid. Now the dental checks have started up again, but they are so far behind, I don't think they have any hope of catching up – and are suffering from the same staffing shortages that every other aspect of medicine is coping with.
And, if your kid needs braces (not just cosmetic, if there are misaligned or overlapping teeth, without straightening you're in for a life of heightened risk of dental decay) – you're talking 7K plus (which is completely out of reach of many families).
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Mike Grimshaw writes – The recent announcement of the University Advisory Group, chaired by Sir Peter Gluckman, makes very clear where the Government’s focus and priorities lie. The remit of the Advisory Group is that Group members will consider challenges and opportunities for improvement in the university sector including: ...
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Rob MacCullough writes – Pundits from the left and the right are arguing that National’s Fast Track Bill that is designed to speed up infrastructure decisions could end up becoming mired in a cesspool of corruption. Political commentator ...
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Swabbing mixed breed baby chicks to test for avian influenzaUh oh. Bird flu – often deadly to humans – is not only being transmitted from infected birds to dairy cows, but is now travelling between dairy cows. As of last Friday, Bloomberg News reports, there were 32 American dairy herds ...
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What is it with the mining industry? Its not enough for them to pillage the earth - they apparently can't even be bothered getting resource consent to do so: The proponent behind a major mine near the Clutha River had already been undertaking activity in the area without a ...
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Buzz from the Beehive Reactions to news of the government’s readiness to make urgent changes to “the resource management system” through a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) suggest a balanced approach is being taken. The Taxpayers’ Union says the proposed changes don’t go far enough. Greenpeace says ...
I’m starting to wonder if Anna Burns-Francis might be the best political interviewer we’ve got. That might sound unlikely to you, it came as a bit of a surprise to me.Jack Tame can be excellent, but has some pretty average days. I like Rebecca Wright on Newshub, she asks good ...
Chris Trotter writes – Willie Jackson is said to be planning a “media summit” to discuss “the state of the media and how to protect Fourth Estate Journalism”. Not only does the Editor of The Daily Blog, Martyn Bradbury, think this is a good idea, but he has also ...
Graeme Edgeler writes – This morning [April 21], the Wellington High Court is hearing a judicial review brought by Hon. Karen Chhour, the Minister for Children, against a decision of the Waitangi Tribunal. This is unusual, judicial reviews are much more likely to brought against ministers, rather than ...
Both of Parliament’s watchdogs have now ripped into the Government’s Fast-track Approvals Bill. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāMy pick of the six newsey things to know from Aotearoa’s political economy and beyond on the morning of Tuesday, April 23 are:The Lead: The Auditor General,John Ryan, has joined the ...
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The infrastructure industry yesterday issued a “hurry up” message to the Government, telling it to get cracking on developing a pipeline of infrastructure projects.The hiatus around the change of Government has seen some major projects cancelled and others delayed, and there is uncertainty about what will happen with the new ...
Hi,Over the weekend I revisited a podcast I really adore, Dead Eyes. It’s about a guy who got fired from Band of Brothers over two decades ago because Tom Hanks said he had “dead eyes”.If you don’t recall — 2001’s Band of Brothers was part of the emerging trend of ...
Buzz from the Beehive The 180 or so recipients of letters from the Government telling them how to submit infrastructure projects for “fast track” consideration includes some whose project applications previously have been rejected by the courts. News media were quick to feature these in their reports after RMA Reform Minister Chris ...
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Calling all journalists, academics, planners, lawyers, political activists, environmentalists, and other members of the public who believe that the relationships between vested interests and politicians need to be scrutinised. We need to work together to make sure that the new Fast-Track Approvals Bill – currently being pushed through by the ...
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Bryce Edwards writes- The ability of the private sector to quickly establish major new projects making use of the urban and natural environment is to be supercharged by the new National-led Government. Yesterday it introduced to Parliament one of its most significant reforms, the Fast Track Approvals Bill. ...
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Sunday was a lazy day. I started watching Jack Tame on Q&A, the interviews are usually good for something to write about. Saying the things that the politicians won’t, but are quite possibly thinking. Things that are true and need to be extracted from between the lines.As you might know ...
In our Weekly Roundup last week we covered news from Auckland Transport that the WX1 Western Express is going to get an upgrade next year with double decker electric buses. As part of the announcement, AT also said “Since we introduced the WX1 Western Express last November we have seen ...
TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to April 29 include:PM Christopher Luxon is scheduled to hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4 pm today. Stats NZ releases its statutory report on Census 2023 tomorrow.Finance Minister Nicola Willis delivers a pre-Budget speech at ...
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The ability of the private sector to quickly establish major new projects making use of the urban and natural environment is to be supercharged by the new National-led Government. Yesterday it introduced to Parliament one of its most significant reforms, the Fast Track Approvals Bill. The Government says this will ...
This is a column to say thank you. So many of have been in touch since Mum died to say so many kind and thoughtful things. You’re wonderful, all of you. You’ve asked how we’re doing, how Dad’s doing. A little more realisation each day, of the irretrievable finality of ...
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The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
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The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
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A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
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The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
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New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
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The Government must commit to the Maitai School building project for students with high and complex needs, to ensure disabled students from the top of the South Island have somewhere to learn. ...
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Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
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Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
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In the latest barrage of Russian missile strikes on Ukraine, two have hit Poland, killing two people.
https://twitter.com/ywnreporter/status/1592582175798743041
Interesting times.
Well, maybe it'll all be over by Christmas after all.
Another story here.
‘
Two differing accounts of the missile strike on Poland. Whether this missile strayed off course or was a deliberate attack on a Nato country, CNN reports it was concurrent with a "Wave of missile strikes" on Ukraine.
Unattributed RT report denies that the missile that landed in Poland came from the missile strikes launched against Ukraine at the same time.
I don't have to guess what details will follow: Going on their past MO Russia will accuse Ukraine of staging the attack on Poland to try and bring Nato into the war.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-s-lavrov-says-syria-chemical-weapons-attack-was-staged-n865686
I don't think Russia would have any interest in firing missiles at Poland so, either they were intended for Ukraine but Russia's aim was not accurate, or it was a "false flag" move by Ukraine, though for what purpose is unclear.
Always ask, who profits.
Funny how this has happened just at the time US military high command is suggesting its time for negotiation for peace.
They must have some interest in firing missiles, they've fired a lot of them.
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/05/ukraine-war-fact-russia-has-fired-off-more-than-1100-missiles/
… at Poland …
Googles "size of Polish army"
Googles "NATO membership".
As Poland is in NATO, you might also google "size of NATO countries armies"
Accident or not on the part of Russia, NATO, or Poland directly, has little choice but to make a strong response to this situation because otherwise Russia will see it as a green light to keep targeting Nato countries.
NATO has an escalation ladder so no WW3, yet.
https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1592598256512798720
I agree that the NATO response probably won't be a direct military response at this stage.
But there will have to be a credible strong response that is sufficient to deter Russia from doing that again.
Ukraine probably will get better weapons now as a result of this. I think they should get the long range ATACM missiles they have been asking for for ages. This will allow them to target the Russian air bases and launch sites the Russians are using for these attacks. Thus, further protect Ukraine, and NATO countries as well.
Biden and co won't want to be in the books about how the war started. I reckon top end air defence systems rather than long range missiles.
Close the sky
Ukraine has previously called for a free fly zone over at least a part of Ukraine. With this attack on a NATO member country, a free fly zone over the Western half of Ukraine bordering Poland and Moldova, makes a lot of sense.
Not much point to a no-fly zone as the Ukrainians effectively have that now. In fact, in some areas, the Ukrainian airforce has been dominant. So, a nofly zone would simply penalise the Ukrainians.
Russian planes hardly dare go into Ukrainian air-space due to the bristilling air defence. The missiles tend to be fired by Russian planes outside of Ukrainian air space.
I think what they need to be supplied is longer-range precision missiles such as ATACMs so they can take out the missiles before they are even launched. This would mean targeting Russian air bases and the like.
If the missiles can be taken out before launch, that reduces the risk of Russian missiles to Nato countries as well.
One missile – plausible accident.
Two?
Guess we need to know the exact pedigree of the missiles, as to their accuracy, track record, etc.
They'll know.
https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1592596493252591617
It appears to be remains of a UKR S300 intercept of a Russian cruise missile over Livi in Western Ukraine.
At best, it will a be an Article 4 response from NATO. No need for the Poles to go to Article 5 in the NATO Charter.
Likelihood of more calls to close Western Ukraine Airspace, would be my assumption atm.
NATO/Poland are full of shit if they're saying the missiles were definitely fired by Russia
I felt for the war porn aficionados today, waking to news Russia had bombed Poland. At their keyboards, typing one handed, only to end the day with Biden pouring cold water on the idea.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/missile-that-landed-in-poland-may-have-been-fired-by-ukrainian-forces-against-an-incoming-russian-one-say-u-s-officials/ar-AA14asoY
Indeed
Now that we know it was Ukrainian missiles…..
Not with certainty.
Though out of range for direct fire from Russian territory, there are many S300s in Belarus, which for a long time was the chief manufacturing centre for them. And Russia has used S300 missiles on ground targets before.
Having failed militarily, Russia would love to prise Ukraine away from its allies and supporters by creating an incident.
"Keep?" targeting NATO countries?
A while ago there was talk of how hard it is to get positive messages through in a world of highly partisan politics, disinformation, and the usual problems of gotcha media going for cheap shots and false balance . . .
I suspect we get a lot of news and comment through the internet; leaving aside the faults of official media, we now have many websites that peddle personal opinions that are at times extreme. The following is a list of sites that I collected over a few days of websites that appear to cover political issues to at least some extent. They include what appear to be a return of dirty tricks, to deliberately deceptive sites, to those expressing extreme or even deranged opinions from authors that appear to have fallen down a rabbit hole. I tried to decide where each lay on a scale or -10 for negative views of the current government, to +10 for those consistently positive about the current government. I have not included Facebook of other "social media," and I may have missed some that are worth looking at – I certainly hope there are other sites with high positive or good balance like The Standard!
@mods – linkspam?
Although it is an 'interesting' list it is duplicated (!?) and I can't see the alleged ranking from −10 to +10 for views on the current Government in it!?
I would not encourage this sort of comments, also because they need to be released manually from the Spam trap.
Duplicated and no ranking, only clickable links. Hence my diagnosis.
I think it was done with good intentions but let down by poor execution.
Early last week my SO arrived home home from work rather distressed after a row with the boss over refusing to attend a regional meeting. Turns out one of the traveling attendees was covid positive and today three of the local staff attending have tested positive. One, for the third time, and there will probably be more.
#filthy
That's no good. Expect we will hear more similar stories over coming weeks. Yet this govt spurned expert advice about masking. https://www.newsroom.co.nz/pro/cabinet-overrode-health-advice-to-retain-masks
Yet masking didn't stop or curtail our explosion of Covid back in March did it?
Some Scandinavian countries, dropped masks altogether about a year ago. There are competing versions of expert advice.
What are you basing that conclusion on? And the advice in question is from our own local pandemic experts, not overseas academics or suchlike.
"4 shots for summer" may be the next advertising campaign to keep us safe.
For those interested, an excellent Youtube interview with the author of this RUSI piece on the Ukraine airwar.
TLDR – the early phase of this war crippled the Ukrainian airforce as it was forced to engage the Russians at a considerable disadvantage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYDnspMWdaM
Unlikely to be reported in our usual media, so you may be unaware of the incident at the Let Women Speak rally, in New York on Monday 14 November.
Now the format for a Let Women Speak rally, is that the organiser – Kellie Jay Keen – turns up with a microphone and sound system and basically emcees an open mike, for women that want to talk. There's little curating of who speaks, if any. It is purely an event to encourage women to speak up on the impact on women's rights of legislative and policy changes. You can view previous rallies on the livestream of KJK's Youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/KellieJayKeen/streams
KJK was invited to the US, and took the format over there, and arranged rallies in public spaces – such as in front of New York town hall. A couple of events had to be cancelled due to the threats made to the women. Security was hired, and then unevidenced criticism was made that security was right-wing and aligned with fascists.
Each event was advertised by Gender Ideology Activists as a hate event, and and open invitations were issued for people to turn up and do anything they considered necessary to address that hate.
The perpetually oppressed never stop to consider that they are not stopped from marching by women (Brisbane this last weeekend) – but they are appalled at the idea of women publicly expressing their opinions, or gathering.
So, what happened in New York?
Due to the aggressive nature of the gender ideology proponents, many women, including KJK were unable to get to the event to speak.
Belissa Cohen – a LGB activist posted this video that gives some insight into what is happening with these activists:
From the left, the topless three are notable for:
1. A good example of autogynephilia – a man so preoccupied with his hormone induced breast growth, he is indulging in his sexual arousal in public with no awareness of the protest around him, apart from the opportunity it gives him for exhibitionism;
2. A trans-identified female – complete with double mastectomy scars, demonstrating a hatred for women by calling out to them either "bleeders" or "breeders". There are several videos of this group and one is of this woman declaring that she didn't want to be a woman, and how she is a boy who loves testosterone. (NB. Testosterone is a powerful drug – with euphoric effects for some). This woman was also a child model from the age of ten, which may have affected her experience of what female is, and how it is represented;
3. The last contender has been identified as a prominent and feted trans-identified male. Employed also as a model and mentor of LGBTQ+ people, he spent much of the protest spitting on people he found objectionable (women) and declaring he was going to beat their asses, bitch.
I'm always interested to hear (from those who refrain from scrolling past) the updated excuses for why 1 and 3 are vulnerable, and why women should unquestioningly make space for them in women's single-sex spaces and provisions.
And also why men can't just hold safe spaces in their own single-sex spaces for their trans-identified brothers.
https://twitter.com/BelissaCohen/status/1592544726955487233?s=20&t=xr4_-7QXnpe2EC0Fo6DlTw
Indecent exposure is a crime, and the laws are in place to deal with this, no matter the gender identity of the criminal.
Yes, there are bad trans people. There are bad gay people and bad cishet people.
I don't think we should be tarring all transgender people with the same brush.
You need to remember that the teachers who offended that Dilworth were all cisgender men.
"Indecent exposure is a crime, and the laws are in place to deal with this, no matter the gender identity of the criminal."
Apparently baring your breasts in NYC is not indecent exposure. Spitting at people might be however. Breasts don't bother me much, TBH, the thought of someone's saliva has more to be concerned about in this day and age, don't you think?
"Yes, there are bad trans people. There are bad gay people and bad cishet people."
I don't disagree – apart from the cishet – I don't follow this belief so the term is nonsensical. You might have just stated the obvious, some people are bad.
Did you miss the part when I said that No. 3 was a well-known and profiled activist and mentor?
So not a random idiot, a promoted spokeperson for the community.
"You need to remember that the teachers who offended that Dilworth were all cisgender men."
Why do you assume I have forgotten?
Is it because you "forget" that all transwomen are men?
No comment on the antagonism shown by the non-rally attendees only?
Or the public display of the often denied aspect of autogynephilia?
Or the fear and hate directed at women who are gathering to speak their opinions in a public space?
Thanks for providing yet another example of redirection and totally ignoring the content of the issue at hand.
I knew you wouldn't let me down, millsy.
Who do you think is doing that? I'm not seeing anyone here doing that. I wouldn't even tar all AGP with the same brush.
So close and yet still not quite getting it. Yes, most people who sexually offend are male. This is exactly why we have female only spaces. It doesn't mean all men, or even most, are sexual offenders, it means that if we stop thinking about men for a minute and look at this from the perspective of women, we see that the most straight forward way of protecting women from the high rates of sexual assault and harrassment by men is to arrange society so that women have female only spaces.
I've not seen any evidence that trans women or other trans-identified males sexually offend at a lower rate than the general male population. Again, this doesn't mean all or even most TW are sexual offenders. It means that when we consider the safety of women, we should consider males of whatever gender identity as the class that women need protecting from.
The safety of TW can be addressed likewise, without removing the safety of women.
"Cishet" displays your fealty to Gender Ideology. Humans are not divided into 2 categories based on a supposed relationship with their sexed bodies. Forced division without approval or permission is insulting and oppressive.
.
"cis" or "cisgender" is another term for virtually everyone.
Invented largely for political reasons within Queer Theory & Gender Studies … it seeks to massively exaggerate the size of the trans community while inherently downplaying the relevance of biological sex.
For Gender ideologues, cisgender means that one's "gender identity" and "sex assigned at birth" (as opposed to biological sex) match up.
"Sex assigned at birth" is seen as an act of power, indeed of deliberate violence … so, specifying "sex assigned at birth" instead of biological sex allows these activists to maintain the Queer Theory dogmas that (1) sex itself is socially constructed and that (2) sex categorisation is illegitimately imposed on new-born babies by Doctors, Parents & others who supposedly possess sociopolitical power … (rather than biological sex being a simple fact of human reality).
In other words, they're total fantasists (in the same way that Critical Theory / Woke ideologues are in general) … and very controlling, demanding, authoritarian fantasists at that.
Obviously we aren't but the trans movement has been infiltrated by violent and misogynistic men who are using it to get away with stuff. Self ID laws and the like have not taken this into account.
at this stage I wouldn't say infiltrated so much as welcomed with open arms. Left wing men defacto arguing that rape of women in prison is an acceptable price to pay for keeping TW safe. Left wing women saying that rape survivors need to manage their triggers better when males come into their single sex spaces. It's not like the evidence hasn't been there, presented by the pariah feminists. Even before self ID. The choices were made to put aside the concerns of women, and make the changes anyway.
Weka you are right. I was being too kind.
very good comment Molly.
I would add a couple of points.
#1 and #3 in other vids, it took me a while to figure out exactly the problem here (because we know that women use nudity as part of protest). What they look like to me are men who want the right to masturbate in public. Any conversation about trans women's rights that doesn't included discussion of AGP is a fail.
#2, the trans man is someone presumably who hates their female body to the extent that they had their breasts removed to make their life tolerable. Society needs to stop and consider if people with such degrees of mental distress should be driving policy and social change.
on reflection, it's not simply the right to masturbate in public, it's the right to do so at women they hate. I'm struggling to think of worse public expression of misogyny than that video.
That the police didn't intervene is both astounding and scary in its implications. Haven't looked at NY indecency laws.
Last time I checked men going shirtless was not considered public nudity. I don't think failing to invent a crime is really a good basis for police criticism here.
The NYPD seemed to respond appropriately throughout the day, calling in special operations unit to disperse the crowd and providing human barriers between the small group of women and the crowd.
It's always a judgment call on the day. I don't think they did much that can be genuinely criticised.
did you miss the bit in my comments where I differentiated between nudity and obscenity? In this case, public self pleasuring sexually is an act that involves others without their consent. I don't know if indecency laws cover what that man is doing, as I said in my comment.
And of course, we know that women don't generally behave like this, and that there are hefty societal and physical risk pressures that prevent women from having the freedom to be in public topless.
There’s also the issue of what would happen to the police of they reacted to the men as if they were men. But I’m guessing there is no topless law in NY for either men or women.
"What they look like to me are men who want the right to masturbate in public."
Another regular activist who attended yesterday (with previous record of doxxing women), might confirm your suspicions.
(I know many here might not believe it, but I don't post the most contentious pictures or videos I come across, I posted the one above because of the role the third one has in the community, while publicly threatening women with violence).
The following video from the same event, posted by a women's right activist (not one I particularly agree with) with a AGP enjoying the simulation of masturbation maybe a bit too much at the end:
https://twitter.com/StandingforXX/status/1592318236628221953?s=20&t=x5CuKlkN0eksd20w87CU-A
Was interesting to note how the different cultures responded to the same format. Really noticeable distinctions between the women speaking at the UK events and the US ones.
it's the visual on the ground equivalent of 'suck my trans dick'.
For those not familiar with the online version,
https://terfisaslur.com/
Along this train of thought, while I was looking into the issues of consent and the mixed messages regarding intimate relationships from many of the LGBTQ+ support organisations, I watched part of a programme about transgender people finding love.
I didn't watch it all, there was a featured piece about a well-known transgender teenage dream couple that had finally split up after promoting their transgender identities and relationship status during their teenage years. It turned out that there was little or no physical intimacy, and that their relationship was more performative than personal.
However, there was a particularly memorable young trans-identified male, who had been supported during their transition by a close male friend over the years. They had finally got the courage to directly ask their supportive male friend, now that they had finished their transition, whether they could take their friendship to a personal relationship.
The response was immediate and definite: it was better if they kept their connection to friendship only.
A couple of thoughts struck me when I watched this segment, and saw the change in demeanour of the young trans-identified man:
What if – this young man was one of the many gay teenagers who had developed a crush on their heterosexual close friend? What if both the personal homosexuality and unrequited nature of that crush, were avoided by the promise of becoming a woman, and therefore a possible romantic partner of the afore mentioned crush?
The friend – unwittingly supporting that notion by his support of a female gender identity – and all the transitional changes made, but whose heterosexual orientation meant that despite it all – he was not ever going to be an intimate relationship option.
It was quite devastating to watch. A good friend of mine, related his long-time crush on his best friend as the catalyst for realising his sexual orientation. I wonder how the young gay men in similar situations are doing now.
Some of the vitriol displayed at events might come from the realisation of the failure to deliver on the unspoken promises of full recognition alluded to in public policy and legislation, and what is experienced at individual personal level.
I'm probably a bit jaded, but the antics of the AGP struck me as someone particularly unskilled in the handling of breasts in a sexually stimulating way. I figure, at least he inflicts that lack of expertise only on himself and not anybody else.
He is in multiple videos of the day and the reality is – his behaviour never gets any better.
Often used as an excuse for bad behaviour. And just the sort of person you want in a woman's prison.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/130471744/restaurant-triple-stabber-jailed-for-nine-years-and-three-months
Yes. Saw that and despaired:
I'm sure they do feel safer. Sorry women.
We really need a specialised unit for trans people.
Relieved to see Stuff reporting on the gender transition so it's clear they are male.
Of course.
Wake up people on the left. The gender ideology movement is not progressive at all. It's harming women and its prioritizing men like Nelson over vulnerable women prisoners.
"Very complex" may be an understatement. There is a high incident of co-morbidity with other psychological conditions among today's self identified male trans people. The trans identified men in British prisons are far more likely (over 40%) to be there for sex related offences than the rest of the male prison population.
It is not just men in women's prisons and other spaces – it is the worst kind of men in women's spaces.
it's also possible that societal factors like transphobia, homophobia, and sanctions against effeminate behaviour in men may mean it's more likely that trans women and TIMs end up doing sex work. In the same way that we see sexual abuse and poverty makes it more likely for women to end up doing sex work.
I'd also like to know how that plays out with AGP men and violence. Pity No Debate means we won't be getting much good research for a while.
My thesis here is that patriarchal conditioning and conditions create violence in TIMs like it does with other men. Different dynamics.
As Molly said, why aren't men making male spaces safer?
Because these people do not want to be safe in male spaces or third spaces. They want to be in womens spaces, as women.
Male spaces and bathrooms are no more and no less dangerous for transpeople then female spaces. I mean self ID opens the door to all men, at all times, to all female spaces and thus the same men that were feared by transpeople in the male spaces will now have access to them in the female spaces. Its bs. They want access to female spaces because they want to be women, and they can only be fully women if they get to play the full game, women sports, women awards, women jobs, women rape counseling, women breastfeeding, woman everything, nothing less will do. Ditto for Transmen, they want to be men. And the rest of the population has to go along with it by hook or by crook.
But a few people will profit of this regressive misery covered in kindness, it will set women – adult human female – set back into the 1700 and further back even – removed from public record and medical texts, denial of the labour of their body, and it for sure will teach women – human born female of all ages – their place in society.
Don't you think that our future as the large gamete producers is bright and rosy?
So you think that Nelson should go to a men's prison and possibly be raped or attacked?
Not defending them, but our prisons are fucked enough without transgender prisoners getting attacked and raped.
Any prisoner going into a men's prison could possibly be raped or attacked.
How do you justify ignoring the other vulnerable males in your expression of care?
The women's prison estate is for women, and should remain sex-segregated.
So you think that Nelson should go to a women's prison and possibly stab or otherwise assault women?
The solution is to set up a special prison unit for trans prisoners. .
I would agree with you on a special trans/LGBT unit. I belive that Rikers Island in NYC had one from 1975-2005, but was closed down.
Posted a few times on the K6G unit in LA County, but you must've missed them:
https://thestandard.org.nz/search/K6G/?search_comments=true&search_posts=true&search_sortby=date
AFAIK, still going.
https://www.kcet.org/shows/socal-connected/clip/life-behind-bars-for-gbt-inmates-at-the-k6g
If you think that the prisons in NZ are so dangeorus you should voice your concern with the MP who looks after Corrections. It is up to government to regulate and then assure the safety of all prisoners who are held in the care of government.
Incarcerated women are not body shields.
How many women would need to get harmed in prison by men – who may or may not be transwomen – for you to consider the safety of women?
"If you think that the prisons in NZ are so dangeorus you should voice your concern with the MP who looks after Corrections."
I dont think the government gives a shit about the safety of our prisoners, regardless of biological sex, gender identity or sexual orientation. For the past 20-30 years, both parties have imported US penal policies into this country, which is bascially stick prisoners in a cage and watch while they tear each other apart. This is largely due to the lobbying of the likes of Garth McVicar and Norm Withers, both of whom actively condone the rape and shanking of weaker prisoners by the strong ones as that is part of the 'punishment' factor of prisons.
And yet you like the government seem to have no fuck to give about safety of women in prisons.
Men – irrespective of their self identification should never be locked up in prison with women. And to do so, is to show that absolutly no regards for the wellbeing and the safety – from rape and pregnancy – of the women is given. But then maybe the rape of a woman – human born female – is acceptable to some on the left in order to protect a male from male violence that seems to be state sanctioned and / or permitted.
And when the foreseeable happens – it warrants only brief article:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/112432880/transgender-prisoner-investigated-for-sexual-assault-behind-bars
Below is the prisoner you are insisting on placing with females with nowhere to run:
https://reduxx.info/nz-trans-identified-male-sent-to-womens-prison-after-stabbing-spree/
Might make you think that Putin has a point.
I note that Putin and his supporters now view the war in Ukraine as a war for 'traditional values' against 'western decadance' (LGBTQ) with some pro Russian supporters wanting an open alliance between Orthodox Christian, Confucian Chinese and Wahabist Islam in some kind of 'Holy War'.
Odd as the war in Ukraine is in effect, Orthodox Christians fighting Orthodox Christians.
It is starting to look like the missile strikes on Poland may have been due to stray Ukrainian air defence missiles, or a Russian missile deflected by air defence.
So, that part may be an accident.
What wasn't an accident was oil supplies to both Hungary and Slovakia (NATO members) were cut due to Russia hitting infrastructure in Ukraine that is used for the piping of oil through to those countries. So, perhaps at least an indirect attack on Nato.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/hungary-mol-says-oil-shipments-druzhba-pipeline-temporarily-suspended-2022-11-15/
So, that may end up being a more serious than the missile strikes.
The EU and NATO need to make sure that this doesn't blow up out of hand. As much as I dislike Putin, I don't think it is worth turning Europe into a radioactive wasteland just to get one up on him.
What a difference a day makes
Hungarian/Slovakian supplies have resumed
https://www.upstreamonline.com/production/ukraine-oil-supplies-to-hungary-and-slovakia-resume-after-missile-strike/2-1-1355360
Grateful for your regular updates tsmithfield. Saves me a lot of reading. 😉
Thanks, I wish there wasn't a need to do that.
Time to make a submission on the proposal on restricting agricultural emissions is running out. This is an opportunity to make sure we as a country do what is necessary to meet our international obligations as well as incentivising more environmentally friendly agricultural practices which will benefit us all:
https://action.greens.org.nz/submission_guide_he_waka_eke_noa
The BAU TINA agribusinesses will be making submissions, we can outnumber theirs and send a message that will strengthen the Governments resolve. Nature, and the future, need us to advocate for them.
Latest on Luxon contortions, from Thomas Coughlan at NZME.
The old political adage applies: it is better to be criticised than mocked. Once you've become a figure of fun, you've lost.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/christopher-luxon-u-turns-on-u-turn-acknowledging-he-misspoke/G4LEMNH2MNHV7M2VAR453Z4NRE/
National later U-turned on that remark, clarifying that Luxon misspoke and had not intended to U-turn on that particular policy. He was in fact talking about the clean car standard, an emissions standard for vehicle importers.
National opposed that policy too, meaning Luxon has still U-turned on a policy today – just not the policy he said he was U-turning on.
He’s doing doughnuts
He just got squashed in the House by Grant Robertson.
Time for Split Enz … "Nobody takes me seriously anyway".
This one: https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=229653?
Not a performance of a leader who is confident of wandering far from his script at all. Not a word or an aside that wasn’t scripted. Also shows his handlers lack of confidence.
Shouldn't that be "delivering doughnuts"?
This the problem when doing doughnuts: you never deliver anything except for noise, hot air, and an acrid smell.
I'm gonna *555 Luxon.
Sustained loss of traction is against the law.
Confiscate his car and then crush it! I know just the right person for this and she’d love it
Donald Trump announces he is running for President of the United States again.
Former Republican President Donald Trump says he's launching another White House bid | CNN Politics
What could go wrong?
The most racist, homophobic, transphobic, mysoginost, religious fundamentalist, anti abortion, anti union, anti welfare president in US history. The guy must be stopped. At all costs.
LOL I think most of those labels are way off. Religious fundamentalist he certainly isn't.
Didn't he let Caitlyn Jenner use the girl's restrooms in Trump Towers?
Caitlyn Jenner is trying to be 'one of the good ones', so she doesn't count.
Agree with that – an authoritarian narcissist who periodically and unconvincingly pretends to be a religious fundamentalist, because it's politically expedient to do so.
Luxon is an interesting counterpoint to that – someone who is a religious fundamentalist but pretends not to be, because it's politically expedient to do so.
Says something about the two different political cultures I guess.
He could be suspended from Twitter for impersonating a sane person.
What a loser!
Mostly an attempt to delay the inevitable indictments coming his way. The Jan 6 committee will have to speed up their final report and recommendations with the House going GoP next year, but even some Repugnants possess principles. DoJ indictment still in the offing (even if a candidate) wrt mishandling of secret files.
Dems could run a puppy dog against him and win – he still doesn't understand that he is not as popular with the majority as he thinks he is – only the deluded.
This is one of the most insane, grotesque political scenes imaginable.
There are many versions of the occasion. This unedited, raw, all-over-the-shop long version puts the simple photo-op still moments into context.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQCHvK_pB7U
This is not how change happens. Never has been. Never will be.
With disagreement even over the conference cover statement, 'Carried to Hell in a Handcart', might be a more efficient mode of transport to take us to the apocalypse than this *shemozzle.
*(even the dictionary gets it)
Starting to look like the missile(s) that hit Poland may have been Ukrainian S300(s) (they have a lot that are past their use by date)
Tory Whanau may be in trouble with the Greens. According to HDA, all the best jobs in council have gone to her mates. I don't know whether that's true, but nepotism is a Maori speciality.
Quote: from paywalled article:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/a-capital-letter-wellington-mayor-will-not-renew-green-party-membership/6QL5E56C4BG5ZM3N3R77GL4V
OPINION
''Wellington mayor Tory Whanau, whose independent campaign was endorsed by the Greens, has decided she will not renew her party membership, the Herald understands.
The key reason behind the move is so she can work more productively with councillors without a formal tie to a political party – but it could also ruffle feathers among those in the Green Party who helped her win the election.
Whanau has now spent almost six weeks in the city’s top job after she romped home with a convincing majority of 17,751 votes over the incumbent.
It was clear Whanau had a sense of which way the tide was turning a couple of weeks before election day, but such a strong majority certainly came as a surprise.
On the campaign trail, Whanau pitched herself as someone who could cross the political spectrum and bring people together. She pointed to her experience negotiating with New Zealand First when she was the Green Party’s chief of staff as an example of this.
Green Party councillor Laurie Foon is the deputy mayor, while two Labour councillors and one Green councillor will chair the council’s three big committees.
First-term Motukairangi Eastern Ward councillor Tim Brown told Newstalk ZB Wellington Mornings host Nick Mills he felt “slightly disconcerted” about the appointments.
It’s because they share her [Whanau’s] views, which I think is a good reason on her part, but of course means that the independent candidates sitting around the table are looking at the equation and thinking well if we don’t share her views, we’re going to be excluded.”
[Take a month off. You don’t seem to know what nepotism is and you simply indulged in baseless Māori bashing – Incognito]
Nice knowing you.
It's common. Many problems of Maori v Maori rotates around people being appointed to some position, but other Maori saying they shouldn't be appointed because they belong to the wrong tribe, or have the wrong whakapapa. I said at the time, Auckland and Wellington councils would encounter problems.
You need to add more than your trite uncalled for comment.
I'd stop digging if I were you.
How is Mark Mitchell? What else has he been up to? Is he backing Nicola Willis for leader or is he going himself? He didn’t say on the radio but I figured you’d know.
Mark Mitchell would be most worrying as National Partty leader. The guy would, in the words of Trotter, liberate the police, and police the liberals.
His desire to bring about US-style policing is well documented. I would imagine that Maori would be gunned down left right and centre by cops if he is allowed anywhere near cabiney.
You don’t give Kiwi cops much credit, do you? I’m pretty sure that for that to happen you’d need US cops with a US mind-set in a US context here in Aotearoa – New Zealand.
That's your problem, right there
Mod note
thank you
Thank you.
Waiting for a post: Luxon: Chicken Little or an Egg? on the clean car fleet. Polluters must meet their costs or we are paying them to do so. We’re picking up fossil awards while our neighbors in and outside NZ are seeing their property below water. The clean car work is not nearly enough, but it’s a basic step. Polluters must pay.
Which is it Micky?
You mean Greg alwyn.
What's happened to LINO's commitment to health outcomes like dental.
" Yesterday the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists released a report on dental care in Aotearoa, highlighting its unaffordability and recommending free, universal dental care. This is something the left has been campaigning for for a long time – Jim Anderton pushed for it before the 2011 election, and Helen Clark has advocated for it. It would massively improve people's lives, reduce pain and suffering, and save money in the long-term. But it would involve spending money, so naturally Grant Robertson has vetoed it "
" Instead of free and universal provision, he wants people to go crawling to WINZ, with all the added pain and suffering that entails. Weirdly, he thinks that this isn't a deterrent – which I guess tells us either that he has never dealt with them, or that nine years on an MP's salary and six on a deputy prime minister's has destroyed all memory of it (and WINZ has got massively worse since Grant was a student) "
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2022/11/grant-says-no-again.html
A windfall tax could pay for this and more.
He said he did not think the fact the grants had to be applied for through Work and Income would deter people from applying for them.
"For low-income people, I'm sure the opportunity to be able to get the support for [dental care] is something that they will take up."
That sounds like someone who is totally out of touch.
I detest the National party but before you have a crack at them Greg what about your Labour party and their failures to their own people they solicit votes from then look the other way.
Now back to the RMA and Nationals policy failure's.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
If you cannot stay on-topic then take it to OM, or TDB.
" Yesterday the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists released a report on dental care in Aotearoa, highlighting its unaffordability and recommending free, universal dental care. This is something the left has been campaigning for for a long time – Jim Anderton pushed for it before the 2011 election, and Helen Clark has advocated for it. It would massively improve people's lives, reduce pain and suffering, and save money in the long-term. But it would involve spending money, so naturally Grant Robertson has vetoed it:
"
Instead of free and universal provision, he wants people to go crawling to WINZ, with all the added pain and suffering that entails. Weirdly, he thinks that this isn't a deterrent – which I guess tells us either that he has never dealt with them, or that nine years on an MP's salary and six on a deputy prime minister's has destroyed all memory of it (and WINZ has got massively worse since Grant was a student).
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2022/11/grant-says-no-again.html
" "Going straight to universal dental care right away would be well over a billion dollars a year of extra funding, we have to weigh that up against the other things that are needed in the health system."
And Grant has ruled out a windfall tax that could pay for universal care and much more.
National is not in government but Grant and Jacinda are !
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
[looks like you’re also insisting on being modded for diversion trolling. This is your warning – Incognito]
Mod note
I have never trolled in my life and you can check on my history with posting on here.
I know its uncomfortable when you are presented with the facts behind the spin of the current government but it is the facts.
National are terrible but we expect that. Labour are supposed to care for the poor.
They don't.
I will continue to call them out even if the people here can’t see it.
Open and transparent government was promised wasn’t it ?
There’s a first for everything. If you continue the efforts of a notorious diversion troll who had been warned and modded then, for all intents and purposes, I consider you also a diversion troll and will treat you as such.
You are free to say what you feel you have to say but you don’t have carte blanche to say it wherever (and however) you feel like here. You may also want to tone down on the personal snides when you ‘call out Labour’.
" You are free to say what you feel you have to say but you don’t have carte blanche to say it wherever (and however) you feel like here "
No you have that power Incognito by the way you and others decide what is acceptable on this site.
Its called freedom of expression which the government has not banned yet and I am not talking about anything illegal or malicious but the Standard has just has to look at the growing list of people driven out by being banned because they said something the moderators disagreed with.
The TDB has a number of contributors who are on topic and and aren't afraid to call the National party out while also revealing the increasing poverty and hardship still being experienced under Labour and their fiddling with statistics.
Personal snides ? you mean the attack on Chris Trotter on this site ?
I take it then that's acceptable if its one of your main contributors , or Lyn's
put down's against some of the correspondents who contribute here.
I rest my case.
Seriously?? Are you oblivious or obtuse?
Addressing and correcting the very many points in your comment feels like cleaning the Augean stables. Suffice to say, as long as one adheres to this site’s Policy and takes heed of Moderator notes one can enjoy the generous freedom of commenting on TS to their heart’s content.
I hope this will help and I also hope you don’t draw unnecessary attention to yourself.
Have a nice day.
Good dental health, has such a positive effect on other health issues.
And the dental care offered by the school system is much less consistent or frequent than it was back in the 70s when every primary school had it's own dental clinic and nurse.
It would have been a good preventative health measure, and the cost of dental care is high or unaffordable for those with few discretionary funds.
Yes. I think it's the cost factor which has just driven it up out of reach of many middle-class (let alone working-class) kiwis.
I don't know what the answer is to this. Some of it is the bells-and-whistles (x-rays, etc.), which may improve the dental care – but all the equipment costs an arm-and-a-leg and has to be amortized across all of the patients. Some of it is the high cost of training, and then of staffing and operating dental surgeries.
https://www.nsoms.co.nz/dental-costs-in-new-zealand-why-is-it-so-expensive/
I'd like to see a very low-cost, basic dental care option. Fillings (quick and cheap), extraction (if necessary), cleaning & scaling [which always sounds painful]. And conversations with the dentist which include what you can afford – rather than starting out with 'you need 5 crowns, at 1.5 K each'
I know that school dental care was massively backed up before Covid (my son missed the last 3 annual checkups at his school – because they simply prioritized kids who they felt were more likely to have issues). And, of course, virtually no preventive dental work was done over the last 2 years with Covid. Now the dental checks have started up again, but they are so far behind, I don't think they have any hope of catching up – and are suffering from the same staffing shortages that every other aspect of medicine is coping with.
And, if your kid needs braces (not just cosmetic, if there are misaligned or overlapping teeth, without straightening you're in for a life of heightened risk of dental decay) – you're talking 7K plus (which is completely out of reach of many families).
Good on you Mosa