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Open Mike 16/04/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 16th, 2017 - 63 comments
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63 comments on “Open Mike 16/04/2017 ”

  1. Cinny 1

    Congratulations to the ICIJ who have won the Pultizer Prize for Explanatory Reporting for their Panama Papers investigation.

    Nicky Hagar is the only NZ member of the ICIJ (International Consortium of Investigate Journalists).

    “The Pulitzer Prize Board lauded the year-long investigation for “using a collaboration of more than 300 reporters on six continents to expose the hidden infrastructure and global scale of offshore tax havens.”

    This news is five days old, but I’ve seen nada about it in NZ Media, has anyone else please?

    I found out via this weeks episode of The Listening Post on Al Jazeera

    • saveNZ 1.1

      +1 – someone posted a link on TS a few days ago, just shows you’re more up to date with news by reading blogs these days, than MSM in this country!

      From Granny, we can all learn about
      The science behind Married at First Sight,
      Gone in 7min: Speed eater’s choc bunny

      What a quality rag:)

    • saveNZ 1.2

      Telling the truth instead of propaganda might be a ‘new’ vision to consider for the MSM.

      How the BBC’s truth offensive beat Hitler’s propaganda machine

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/15/bbc-truth-offensive-beat-hitler-propaganda-machine

      • Cinny 1.2.1

        That was an interesting article, thanks for the link saveNZ. And big ups to the person whom posted the news re ICIJ Pulitzer win earlier in the week on TS.

        I guess anything that adds more weight to Hagars obvious credibility as an investigative journalist would be frowned upon by some mainstream media.

  2. joe90 2

    Thuggery.

    This is when Trump supporters, the alt-right, nazis, Proud Boys, militia, etc. pushed through and took downtown Berkeley. pic.twitter.com/21IPF3iBlW— Shane Bauer (@shane_bauer) April 15, 2017

    https://twitter.com/shane_bauer/status/853353232151609344

  3. red-blooded 3

    A fascinating interview on Radio NZ – Wallace chapman with Susan Bordo – a Pulitzer Prize nominated US professor of Women’s Studies on a book she’s published called The Destruction of Hillary Clinton. I know a lot of people on this site are really critical of Clinton, but personally I see things through a similar lens to the one explored in this interview. Clinton wasn’t perfect (no-one is) , but she was a perfectly reasonable candidate caught up in and taken down by a firestorm fed at least in part by misogyny. Before firing off replies, I really urge people to listen to the interview.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/201840530/susan-bordo-the-destruction-of-hillary-clinton

    • Xanthe 3.1

      I made it thru the first 10 minutes, unmitigated, revisionist, crap. IMHO

      Just for starters hillary did not lose because all the media were out to get her!

      As wallice posits at the beginning (i paraphrase) Howcome she was seen as an agent of the establishment, dishonest, and an ineffective politicion, ? Indeed! Because that was certainly not the media line! Just maby americans worked that out for themselves.

      • red-blooded 3.1.1

        I guess it depends on what media people were listening to, Xanthe. It was certainly the message spread by Fox and by those breathlessly reporting Trump’s atrocious Twitter tirade, day by day. And when you say that Americans worked that out, let’s remember that 3 million more of them voted for her than for Trump.

        Anyway, if you only listened to 10 minutes, then I don’t think you gave that interview the attention it deserved. It wasn’t only about Clinton, it was about the misogyny that female politicians continue to face, and not just in America.

        • LivinInTheBay 3.1.1.1

          That 3 million were almost certainly in California. And that was the whole reason the founding fathers came up with the electoral college system. They didn’t want one large state controlling the outcome for all of the states.

  4. The Chairman 4

    Over in Higgins on National’s shit creek thread BM asked:

    “Yet, Labour hasn’t even come up with clean water policy, really? do labour mps just turn up to parliament to eat lunch?”

    Labour won two by-elections with limited policy announced, which has probably led them to believe they can also pull it off in a general election.

    • saveNZ 4.1

      Well i hope it’s positive policy to help NZ citizens not just punishment policy to make NZ citizens pay for the clean up of their failed privitisation policies and help large offshore polluters (aka oil) like National.

  5. red-blooded 5

    Labour is concentrating on 3 core areas this election: housing, education and health. That doesn’t mean there is no other policy; just that they’re trying to stick with a focused message.

    Let’s remember that there was so much policy out last time that people didn’t digest it all and there was no clear picture. Also, when Labour releases policy early, National tend to water it down and release an “us too, but more slowly and much less meaningfully” version as a way to spike their guns.

    There’s plenty of policy available from Labour (check the website). If you’re looking for fresh new policy, wait until the election campaign kicks off properly.

    • The Chairman 5.1

      Their policy page on their site is rather thin.

      As for the argument that voters were unable to digest all of their policies last time, then shouldn’t they be putting them out now, giving voters time to digest them?

      I think it was more a case of voters not liking them as opposed to not understanding them. Hence the limited approach taken now. It suggests they don’t want to scare voters off again.

      National can decide to adopt Labour’s policy at any given time, thus the keeping their powder dry argument doesn’t wash with me.

      • Ad 5.1.1

        No.
        Elections are won on emotions not policies.
        Jacinta’s smile and James’s hair will get more votes than 22 filing cabinets of paper.

        • The Chairman 5.1.1.1

          It seems that’s what Labour are gaming on.

        • adam 5.1.1.2

          Then if they fear the people after the election, they will do the right thing. If not, they will buckle to the donors, like every other political party on the planet.

          • Ad 5.1.1.2.1

            Labour? Donors?
            The Greens raised almost as much last time.

            And National won’t be beaten with meatpack raffles.

            • adam 5.1.1.2.1.1

              The point is money decides not people. And if we carry on down this path, people will never vote again.

              That said, are you OK with taking money from corporations?

        • Rightly or Wrongly 5.1.1.3

          Don’t forget the Green’s ‘Charlies Angels.’

          It appears both Labour and the Greens have decided that ‘young and pretty’ is going to get them across the line this year.

          At what point did identity politics and minority issues get sidelined?

  6. Incognito 6

    If people become resistant to antibiotics by using them too often, it could result in a doomsday scenario, where one in three human being die, researchers say.

    Sigh! It is so easy to get it right and it is so easy to get it wrong. It is the bugs that become resistant, not the people themselves. You know, super bugs.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/91449031/microbiologist-warns-of-preantibiotic-era-and-urges-action-on-resistance

    • McFlock 6.1

      and currently 100% of human beings die lol

      Serious issue, not insurmountable, but cheapened by shit editing.

  7. Bill 7

    I’m not sure if the ideological blinkers got in the way of some Guardian reporting today, but they are reporting on the evacuees buses outside Aleppo being bombed in these terms – The bomber targeted buses full of evacuees from government-held towns as they waited in a rebel-held area on the outskirts of Aleppo.

    Now that might lead some to knee-jerk conclusion that the Syrian government was gratuitously killing Syrian citizens…y’know, ‘yesterday’ a chemical attack, today a bomb targeting those who wished to leave government controlled areas.. Maybe I’m being too cynical and it’s just a straightforward case of fucking woeful reporting, but regardless, simple and quick conclusions from ‘headlines’ or leading comments happen all of the time and are employed all of the time.

    Anyway, the evacuees were from rebel held towns heading towards government controlled areas.

    • Bill 7.1

      Some reasonable reporting from ‘that’ news source. (Still can’t access their site which is beginning to piss me off…it’s been weeks and weeks.)

      • adam 7.1.1

        How can they be call themselves moderate when they chose to suicide bomb women and children.

        • Bill 7.1.1.1

          No banner headlines expressing outrage. The Guardian article still not corrected.

          Doesn’t fit the preferred narrative, innit? 👿

          • adam 7.1.1.1.1

            Peoples heads might explode if they think the corporate media is lying to them.

            • shakingstick 7.1.1.1.1.1

              what’s the evidence they are lying? No real need to correct info that is already correct eh. from the offending article

              About 7,000 people and fighters were being evacuated this weekend in a complex humanitarian deal that took months to agree.

              Under it, 5,000 people were offered safe passage from the government-held towns of Foua and Kefriya, which are surrounded by rebels, and 2,000 left the rebel-held towns of Madaya and Zabadani near Damascus, which are besieged by government forces.

              the deal was a swap, getting pro-govt people out of govt held towns currently besieged by rebels, and swapping them for rebels from rebel held towns currently besieged by govt forces.

              looks like just maybe the ideological blinkers getting in the way of the actual story might by on the other head this time

    • tinfoilhat 7.2

      I don’t believe there is any doubt that the Assad government has been gratuitously killing Syrian citizens for many years whether they did in this instance is unknown.

      • Bill 7.2.1

        Written like the spoken word of a truly swivel eyed disciple there tinfoilhat…

      • adam 7.2.2

        What does that have to do with this tinfoilhat, apart from trying to score points off dead people?

        • tinfoilhat 7.2.2.1

          Bill made the comment ..

          “.. that might lead some to knee-jerk conclusion that the Syrian government was gratuitously killing Syrian citizens…y’know, ‘yesterday’ a chemical attack, today a bomb targeting those who wished to leave government controlled areas.. ”

          I was pointing out that whether or not Assad and his government had anything to do with this violence , there is no doubt that he has been responsible for many outrages perpetuated against his own people over many years much as his father did.

          It is all a very very great shame for the people of Syria.

          • adam 7.2.2.1.1

            Still trying to score points I see.

          • Bill 7.2.2.1.2

            What’s with claiming that you said “there is no doubt that he (Assad) has been responsible for many outrages” ?

            When what you actually said (wrote) was “the Assad government has been gratuitously killing Syrian citizens for many years”

            Big fucking difference there tinfoilhat. Big difference.

  8. joe90 8

    Meanwhile, off the Korean peninsula…..

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9TDZrwUwAITe6V.jpg

  9. Ad 9

    Judge Wendell Griffin is the Arkansas judge that stopped that state executing seven people.

    Yesterday he took part in a protest, having himself strapped to a gurney like a person prepared for execution.

    He’s getting grief for it.

    Defying death: a perfect Easter story.
    From a judge.

  10. Marco 10

    This is why HNZ should not be involved in “social housing” We need private organisations that are not riddled with PC crippled burocrats too scared to act in case of Human Rights or TOW “breaches” Community in fear as gang members move in to quiet Auckland street | Newshub
    Edit linking failed I’m on my phone

  11. adam 11

    Just in case you are disabled, and play video games. Here is an interesting venture, getting disabled people into eSports.

    https://techable.org.nz/disabled-esports/

  12. joe90 12

    Ouch.

    Does @realDonaldTrump have syphilis? "Dr." Chelsea investigates. pic.twitter.com/Xx3NtDGaWW— Chelsea (@Chelseashow) April 13, 2017

    https://twitter.com/Chelseashow/status/852633113519837184

  13. One Two 13

    French elections….’computer error’

    Standard Operating Procedure

    Ce la vie

  14. greywarshark 14

    Philosopher Slavoj Žižek settles the “Is it OK to punch a Nazi?” question once and for all

    In other words, leftists should “go high?”
    I remember when [Greek leftist party] Syriza was still competing for power in Greece. A representative of [far-right political party] Golden Dawn threw glasses full of water at his Syriza opponent at a TV round table. A couple of times, Syriza members of parliament were attacked in parliament, and so on. Today it’s these new alt-right people who are acting physically violent.

    They represent the decay of common morality and decency. And I use here the the very precise term, Hegel calls it Sittlichkeit. It’s not simple morality, it’s a set of thick unwritten rules which makes our social life bearable. And, paradoxically, I think that progressives should become the voice of common decency, politeness, good manners and so on.

    Here I see also the failure of political correctness, because political correctness is, for me, a desperate reaction to this disintegration. But they are doing it in a suicidal way, by precise regulations, saying this word is forbidden and so on. If it has to proceed like this, the left has already lost.
    https://qz.com/896463/is-it-ok-to-punch-a-nazi-philosopher-slavoj-zizek-talks-richard-spencer-nazis-and-donald-trump/

    • Incognito 14.1

      Thank you for the link; it is provoking stuff.

      Although I love paradoxes (because) they tend to challenge my thinking I’d also like to keep it simple:

      C’est le ton qui fait la chanson

      • greywarshark 14.1.1

        Incognito
        You are so cultured.
        Vraiment vous as ete’ cachant votre lumière sous un canon.

        • Incognito 14.1.1.1

          Nah, I like to pretend I am; I’m a fake which is one reason why I use this alias. I am not kidding!

          That said, I do hope that some of what I write here has some merit some of the time; I do mean what I write and try to write what I mean, which is slightly more difficult 😉

          • greywarshark 14.1.1.1.1

            That’s what I come to The Standard to read – what you said!

            • Incognito 14.1.1.1.1.1

              TS is my FB!

              It is so addictive and therapeutic at the same time.

              I might stick around till the general election at least.

              • greywarshark

                Go on you can’t give it up – no way to go cold turkey and miss out on the latest revelations. Though of course there is Scoop and Bernard Hickey as shining venues along with other solid bloggers. But TS is like a thousand small torches shining on narrow footpaths in the dark which will hopefully keep us from falling into big holes.

                • Incognito

                  I spent some time overseas recently and got withdrawal symptoms. Lurking made me already feel heaps better! OMG, what’s happening to me? The only thing that will cure me is to out myself.

                  Loved your Bertrand Russell quote; almost did a QFT but I resisted (the) temptation.

  15. Takere 15

    Need your help comrades! Was just on D Farrars nutcase site and posted this. Its been held up in “awaiting moderation?” For about 30 minutes so far.

    Maybe you guys could tell me why?

    This Pt England Development Enabling Bill of Nick Smiths’, allows the Crown to exercise its Executive Power(s) to Confiscate any local park, reserve,DoC managed land as well as National park land and private property too, to then onsell to the highest bidder!
    This is what the Crown is doing with the negotiators from a interim PSGE, the Ngati Paoa iwi Trust Board(which has only 2 members as well as 2 other boards and associated Deeds & Mandates) & its interim negotiators Eugene & Antony as a private commercial deal masquerading as a Treaty Settlement of which it is not!
    It is a precedent setting Bill! No one’s private property is or public property is safe from been confiscated throughout the whole of NZ in the “name” of “Housing!” It’s what you might call a “FireSale!”
    Nick Smith & Chris Finlayson are in cahoots!
    APRIL 16, 2017 4:58PM

    Is it too real?

    • weka 15.1

      Looks alright to me. If they do premoderation over there I’d guess the delay is because it’s Easter Sunday.

    • greywarshark 15.2

      The above Empowering Bill is disgraceful and must not be allowed to proceed.
      Gnashional have no shame and no scruples or principles, just deal brokers for those who have wealth.

  16. Muttonbird 16

    Where does terrifying incidents like this leave the argument for US backed ‘moderate’ rebels in Syria by commenters like Psycho Milt?

    These savages just killed 100+ refugees in a suicide attack. If it were Israel, entire cities in the West Bank, Gaza, or Lebanon would be wiped off the map within a week with zero sanction, yet the elected Syrian government is for some reason not allowed to do the same?

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/328887/death-toll-from-bomb-in-syria-rises-to-more-than-100

    • lprent 16.1

      Depends which group did the bombing doesn’t it. The ‘rebel’ forces in Syria range from ISIL to previous members of the Syrian government. Just as the ‘government’ forces range from the Russians to the arseholes running the Saydnaya prison who have killed thousands since 2011 (and before).

      I’d note that no group has claimed responsibility, nor are there any particularly good suspects. But I’d also note that there are clearly suspicions about the involvement of the Syrian government. The local BBC correspondent for instance..

      It happened when a vehicle loaded with food arrived and started distributing crisps, attracting many children, before exploding, the BBC’s Middle East correspondent Lina Sinjab said.

      She said it was not clear how the vehicle could have reached the area without government permission.

      But there is also no evidence that rebels were involved in the attack, as the government claims.

      It would not be in the rebels’ interest, our correspondent says, as they were waiting for their own supporters to be evacuated from the other towns.

      That last isn’t a particularly useful statement in this conflict as it has been rather overused by the Russians and Syrian government in the past.

      However I’d point out a few basics that make me suspicious.

      The Alawite sect running the government and the armed forces really aren’t much more sympathetic to Shiites (and in reverse) than they are to Sunnis. You don’t have to read too far into the accounts of their Syrian government’s population demographics to discover that. From the regime viewpoint, bombing few children probably wouldn’t be too extreme if it relieved some of the international pressure.

      Exactly how a bomb vehicle got into a government controlled area to do this is a more than a little bit odd. It hasn’t exactly been common in this war simply because the conflict has been incredibly secterian and each area and even each neighbourhood runs extreme security on its edges, and the Syrians didn’t have to learn this the way that the Iraqis did. It was pretty obvious to everyone after some of the horrendous bombing that went on during the Lebanon civil war and the respective Israeli and Syrian occupations there.

      Basically if you are a selective myopic and choose to ignore the reality of this kind of religious, tribal and sectarian civil war then you can fool yourself into believing anything you want to.

      Personally I suspect that this war is entering a particularly ugly phase. The government has gained the military upper hand from the extensive Russian military help. However the group running the government have a problem. They somehow have to control the rebel held areas once they capture them, and they are clearly not interested in a diplomatic solution. So they can expect a long-running guerilla conflict in most of what are currently rebel held territories.

      My gut feel is that they are trying to start a refugee exodus to do a religious cleansing to deprive the guerillas a support base. The characteristic of that from a government is that they start doing deniable atrocities.

      But hey, if you want to be selectively myopic and not to bother to understand the conflict enough to sort propaganda from reality – then I won’t stop you being a fool.

      • Muttonbird 16.1.1

        I don’t understand this conflict much at all but I don’t think you do either. It is very complex and the details of it are violent, and inscrutable. The information is unreliable and contradictory too. And the players range from tortured Syrian child soldiers right up to Putin and the new kid on the block, reality TV star, Donald Trump.

        As far as I understand the BBC and yourself are suggesting that no claim of responsibility in any non-military action in Syria (including this one) is evidence of government involvement. Certainly the position of the US and all its hangers-on is that all the violence is clearly the responsibility of the Syrian government and their proxies.

        For my sins I take a wider view of the current state of the region and so can be accused of not being interested or informed on the details. Along these lines I wonder what the US particularly thinks it’s going to achieve by going back to the well again and again with direct intervention when clearly the policy has made life far worse for the citizens of those countries over the last 17 years.

        Further, is it not apparent that US economic expansion in several places over the globe is causing tension? I get that the US isn’t concerned with actual territorial global hegemony but they certainly are interested in economic global hegemony. Their political and cultural push into Eastern Europe, and the military regime change policy in the Middle East is less about stability and security for the people of those countries than it is about the security of US business interests in those countries.

        As for the refugee/militant swap being religious cleansing in this instance, well the deal was brokered internationally by Iran and Qatar and I’m struggling to think of a better way to peacefully move these warring peoples apart than by refugee exchanges.

        But back to the most recent incident; the RNZ (BBC/Reuters) article I read said the targets were Shia evacuees from rebel held towns:

        Syrian rescue workers said that they had carted away at least 100 bodies from the site of the blast, which hit buses carrying Shi’ite residents as they waited to cross from rebel into government territory in an evacuation deal between warring sides.

        but your BBC article says the opposite, that the evacuees were from government held towns:

        The UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights monitoring group said at least 109 evacuees from government-held towns were killed, along with aid workers and rebel soldiers.

        If you can tell me which is correct without calling me a fool I’d appreciate it.

  17. Poission 17

    Mean while in aleppo.

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