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Open mike 16/07/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:18 am, July 16th, 2014 - 211 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

211 comments on “Open mike 16/07/2014 ”

  1. Saarbo 1

    Great to see the Labour candidates getting out to the regions, even into places where Labour hasn’t had traditional support. Last night Chris Hipkins, David Shearer and TKC Labour Candidate Penny Gaylor provided an outstanding public meeting at the Otorohanga Rugby Club. There needs to be more of this.

    On another note: This mornings Fonterra GDT auction is down 8.9%, the NZ Dairy market price has essentially collapsed, if this price holds then we will see a dairy payout under $6 which will be a problem for many farmers.

    • Ad 1.1

      Great to hear from Otorohonga. Straight at them in the King Country.

      Anyone else got good campaign stories this morning?

      • Rosie 1.1.1

        “Anyone else got good campaign stories this morning?”

        Yes, I hear that Labour volunteers have been going hard on door knocking in Ohariu and the feed back gives us reason for hope:

        “The vast majority of people I speak to are over Dunne.” From Virginia Andersen, Labour candidate.


        I understand there are clinics planned in each of the community centres in the electorate, which is an excellent way of boosting visibility and interacting directly with the community. The first one kicks off in Newlands this Saturday. If you look at Lynn’s very thorough analysis, NZ First – the Kingmakers? and the link provided regarding Ohariu:


        you can see that the area of central east, which includes Newlands/Paparangi are the biggest supporters of a Left vote in the electorate – a great place to start the clinics! We had a food bank open up in Newlands last year, which may indicate that the area is suffering under our current Government, so I’m sure there will be lots of issues the people will want to discuss with the candidate.

        I’m not a Labour Party member and am not involved with the campaign in Ohariu but what I’ve been hearing is ALL positive. ……………. hey, just imagine unseating Dunne………………. 😀

      • Curtis 1.1.2

        We’ve been working really hard in Clutha-Southland. We’ve door knocked all over the electorate Tapanui, Queenstown, Balclutha, Milton, Gore, Mataura, Nightcaps and Kaitangtata. We’ve had a lot of support in the electorate to my pleasant surprise. I’m thinking we will be taking some votes of National in the electorate this time.

    • Rosie 1.2

      Great stuff Saarbo! Really good to hear.

    • David H 1.3

      Would be nice to know that there are more MP’s for Otaki than that moron Nathan guy.

    • Murray Olsen 1.4

      Financial problems for many farmers are seen as opportunities for the Tories with access to finance, or wanting to sell to foreign capital while grabbing a commission. They want the farms concentrated in fewer hands.

    • North 2.1

      I note various Zionist cheerleaders and apologists on this site objecting to the gross disproportionality of references to ‘genocide’.

      I dare say like references were objected to when the yellow Star of David had its first European outing.

      Well it wasn’t the fucking Yellow Rose of Texas was it ? As we all now know.

      Ironic how the word “solution” has crept into the conversation. “There must be a sensible solution…..blah blah blah” from the likes of Sooth-Creep-Wayne, formerly of cabinet fame.

  2. Paul 3


    Former prime minister Jenny Shipley’s involvement with the latest Chinese banking giant to set up shop in New Zealand has been described by Winston Peters as “economic treachery”.
    I agree with Winston.

    Later on in the article..
    “We found China’s largest bank, the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (ICBC), was also registered here last November, chaired by former politician and Reserve Bank governor Don Brash.”
    These NACT politicians are selling our sovereignty away for their own personal gain.
    We are rapidly losing control of our own country. And we know the people who have facilitated this.
    Lange, Douglas, Moore, Bolger, Richardson, Shipley, Brash, Key,

    • Colonial Viper 3.1

      Nah Bolger was OK just as Lange was OK. Both their caucus had huge cadres of rabid neolibs though.

      • Paul 3.1.1

        Yes, and Bolger was cover for Richardson and Lange cover for Douglas.
        They provided the cheery reassuring face, whilst the others stuffed the country behind our backs.

      • Murray Olsen 3.1.2

        Lange was the clown who took credit for uranium based breath fresheners, while giving Douglas and co. carte blanche to go where Thatcher had feared to tread. He was not OK. He is as responsible as Douglas or Prebble for the state of Aotearoa today.

        Bolger also did little to stop Richardson rubbing salt into the wounds inflicted by the first ACT government. To call either of them OK is to lower our expectations to nothing.

    • Paul 3.2

      China Construction Bank New Zealand’s chairwoman, former Prime Minister Dame Jenny Shipley, said the bank’s initial focus would be on trade business, as well as “supporting high net worth individuals who are either present or wish to come to New Zealand and do business here”.
      ‘High net worth individuals?’

      Maybe this is linked to this article. In May
      Wealthy Chinese knock on NZ’s door.
      “Wealthy Chinese who wanted to emigrate because of concerns over pollution and a crackdown on corruption who had previously considered Canada were now interested in New Zealand and Australia.”

      ‘High net worth individuals?’…aka wealthy Chinese who wanted to emigrate because of a crackdown on corruption .

      • Paul 3.2.1

        And it doesn’t sound like the wealthy of China are very popular in their own country.


        ‘This wave of emigration has left a bitter taste in the mouths of some who cannot leave. Wrote one user on microblogging platform Sina Weibo, “Capital is continuously being transferred abroad, leaving a mess at home.”’

        ‘In November, 2011, an opinion piece in the state-run People’s Daily,entitled “We Should Make It Harder for the Wealthy to Emigrate,” attracted a great number of readers and went viral on Chinese social media sites. The article proposed an “exit tax” on wealthy Chinese leaving the country. Many Web users agreed that such a measure would benefit the majority of Chinese while limiting capital outflow. One anonymous commentator complained, “Once you have money and power, you’re no longer patriotic. Think about it – where did your money and power come from? They’re practically peacetime traitors.”’

        Sounds like they are seen as traitors just like Winston see the wealthy of New Zealand as economic quislings.
        The 1% are the same. whatever the country.

  3. Paul 4

    Our fish are running out.


    ‘Several of New Zealand’s major export fish species have been listed as unsustainably managed by the Australian Marine Conservation Society (AMCS).
    Its warnings appear on its website and on mobile phone apps to use while shopping. They include red lights or do-not-shop for hoki, squid and shark from New Zealand.
    “Overall, there have been significant improvements in farming and the industry is improving transparency due to the fact more people care about where their seafood comes from,” Tooni Mahto, AMCS’s marine campaigns officer, said.
    “But there is still a lot of work to do. It still takes 2.5 kilograms of wild-caught fish, to be used as fish food, to create 1kg of farmed fish.”
    On hoki AMCS said it should not be eaten. Although the New Zealand fishery was healthy “there are significant concerns over threatened species bycatch and habitat damage in this fishery”.
    Fast-food companies like McDonald’s use hoki in their fish burgers.’

    • Jenny 4.1

      And who have the government chosen to sell these same policies to the Pacific Island nations? None other than Labour’s own former mouthpiece for unsustainability, the late grate Shane Jones.

    • vto 4.2

      “It still takes 2.5 kilograms of wild-caught fish, to be used as fish food, to create 1kg of farmed fish.”

      This just always comes across as completely barmy …. why not eat the 2.5 kgs directly ffs? I loves them little fishes …..

      I guess it will be totally about the money as always. Useless humans.

    • bad12 5.1

      From my wireless this morning, RadioNZ National, at an annual $6 a kilo for milk solids 20% of New Zealand dairy farms are only reaching break even,

      The auctions for the rest of the financial year may well spell out the fate of those farms which carry the most debt,

      While ‘stockpiling’ has been trotted out as the cause of the current slump in prices there is evidence that ‘boom’ may well be about to turn to ‘bust’ worldwide for the dairy industry,

      For the first time one of the Chinese players in the market, Yili, has entered the top 10 of production companies, at number 10, suggesting that the ramping up of production there will begin to hurt Western producers deeply,

      A situation of over-supply, some say that point is at hand, will collapse the market prices of dairy products across the world and force up to 20% of all individual farms into insolvency,

      i doubt, the inclusion in the New Zealand economy of two of China’s major banking groups is simply an incidental progression, while there is antagonism toward foreign ‘ownership’ of our farming sector, a collapsing dairy price will give those banks ‘virtual ownership’ of a large part of the local industry via their ability to prop up the industry with cash loans…

      • Tiger Mountain 5.1.1

        Dairy should be part of the economic mix not a dominant commodity.
        There is not enough room for many more cows than the current six mill unless kept indoors in ‘sheds’ as per the shelved South Island Mckenzie basin plan. Cattle are often diseased and stressed to get the yield as it is. Dairy workers in processing and logistics are well unionised but farm workers themselves remain appallingly treated in many cases.

        Forest and sheep have been run down and overlooked in the gold rush scamper to dairy. If the Chinese and Latin Americans really get rolling with dairy Fonterra will be in for a major downsize. The small independents like Synlait, Dairyworks, LIC, Sutton Group, Gardians etc. that do niche products are where dairy will have to go to survive.

        The cash cow may run dry eh, oh well good news for the waterways eventually then. The thing is to replace it with something that provides reasonable employment not just inflated payouts to industrial farm owners.

        • greywarbler

          Great summation of the situation.

        • Colonial Viper

          Need a dairy shed workers union.

          And govt needs to refinance all mortgaged dairy farms at 2% interest in exchange for strict environmental and employment standards.

          • Herodotus

            Why should one sector be protected. Farming as a stand alone business case do not stack up with their operating results. All they are is property companies in hiding. Their operating results allow, is a basis for how much debt they can carry, with the financial returns based on saleability and the appreciation of the farms and stock.
            I feel for those who have recently entered the farming industry as the stress they are under is a real concern, especially with rising interest rates on the horizon coupled with reduced commodity prices, and the increase world wide if dairy capacity.
            And re environmental deterioration they should be compelled like other industries to mitigate at source so that their are no adverse effects down steam.

            • thatguynz

              Fully agree. The biggest concern here (outside of the environmental issues) is what happens if milk solid prices continue to fall and large numbers of our dairy farmers are then “underwater” ie. running at a loss and unable to service the substantial loans on property.

              Clearly in the normal course of events the creditors step in and the assets/property are sold to recoup the loan exposure. Now where are the buyers of said land likely to eventuate from? NZ’ers with spare capital? Heck of a straw man I know but one possibly worthy of consideration.

      • Ad 5.1.2

        This price is at the regular low end of the trading year. But there is a stark warning in it nevertheless that many commentators have been pushing for a long time. Rod Oram is one of them, and Keith Woodford another, as noted below:


        Regrettably despite my high hopes for Fonterra at its inception, I now want Fonterra to decline slowly over the next decade. Farmers and smart partners will then replace it with a thousand predominantly locally-owned small companies with the will to form their own brands, and take on the great value-added challenge of New Zealand dairy.

        Fonterra, and too many other dairy companies, enjoy surfing the bulk commodity wave while it lasts, and simply refuse to believe there will be the hard landing of debt servicing and long price troughs as bulk storage is so slow to use up.

        Only the cushion of a great range of world-beating specialist high-value products with unique brands from a multitude of local companies will turn this slow disaster.

        • cricklewood

          In the true NZ way what would ensue is a rapid race to the bottom with NZ farmers competing with each other on lowest price volume rather than value add… not to mention much easier for processors to screw down milk supply on a farmer by farmer basis…

          • Ad

            That could follow, agreed.
            But there are some who are not vulnerable at all, and aggregate into companies, form their own processing, and their own brands, and their own marketing.

            The two extremes between the NZ milk industry and the NZ wine industry don’t need to be so extreme.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.3

        i doubt, the inclusion in the New Zealand economy of two of China’s major banking groups is simply an incidental progression, while there is antagonism toward foreign ‘ownership’ of our farming sector, a collapsing dairy price will give those banks ‘virtual ownership’ of a large part of the local industry via their ability to prop up the industry with cash loans…

        Yep, we need that ban on foreign ownership now. And not just mild restrictions either.

        • bad12

          My point. re: the Chinese banks setting up shop here is it is a simple means of bypassing messy questions of foreign ownership,

          Why own the farm via a land title with all the negative connotations that this generates when you can buy up through bank loans all that production sitting in an air conditioned office in the Auckland CBD…

          • Draco T Bastard

            Banning foreign ownership would prevent the bank from setting up here in the first place.

            • bad12

              On planet Draco such a banning probably has a 100% probability, on this one the chances are an enlarged ZERO,

              At some point i can see the Chinese, through these banks ability to lend to the individual dairy farms and the major production companies, making the decisions on how big our dairy production is and of course what price the economy can tolerate for the products,

              i doubt that ‘they’ see any point in collapsing our economy,(while we are still ‘friendly),and, as it our methods and stock breeding ability which is enhancing their ability to become in time the biggest dairy producer in the world there is in fact an impetus for controlled,(by them),competition to keep occurring,

              A cynic would suggest that as we milk the cows we are in turn about to be milked ourselves…

            • Colonial Viper

              That’s a different beast altogether DTB. It’s a sanction against foreign banks operating in NZ. Which means no Australian banks either.

        • thatguynz


      • Tracey 5.1.4

        The banks make money, not the average farmer

    • mikesh 5.2

      It would seem dicriminatory to refuse a licence to a Chinese bank when most ot our banking facilities are Australian owned. However, I must admit that I would like to see all overseas banks leave NZ.

  4. “..Even Republicans Support Colorado’s Marijuana Legalization Law..”

    Americans across party lines say they support Colorado’s marijuana legalization law – a new HuffPost/YouGov poll finds.

    And the poll results show the majority of Americans think efforts to enforce current marijuana laws are not worth the cost.

    In the poll – 61 percent of Americans said they support the Colorado law – which as the poll described it –

    • ‘makes recreational marijuana use legal but applies a heavy tax on marijuana sales-
    • limits the sale of marijuana only to people 21 years old or older –
    • and makes it illegal to take marijuana out of state’.

    Twenty-seven percent oppose it..”


    (ed:..and of course recent polling here in new zealand showed that 45% of national party supporters support ending the prohibition of cannabis..)


    • JanM 6.1

      I suspect the real problem is nobody can figure out how to bleed money out of the great unwashed like alcohol and tobacco when you can just throw in a row of it next to the tomatoes. They’ll think of something eventually – medical marijuana seems to be where they’re headed at the moment

      • phillip ure 6.1.1

        i am hoping they byepass that halfway-house of medical-marijuana only..

        ..that solves none of the prohibition problems..(criminal-control of markets..no control over sales to minors etc..to name just two..)

        ..and that the move is to the (proven-successes) of the colorado-model of legalisation/regulation/taxation..

        …this can be done in two ways..

        1)..the actual colorado-model:

        ..where private-enterprise is licensed/regulated to grow/sell/administer the scheme..(with the state receiving license-fees + revenue from taxation at point of sale…)

        2)..the uruguay-model:

        ..where in a determination to totally remove the criminal-element from the market..

        ..the far-sighted president of uruguay has mandated a state-run model..

        ..where employment is created from the state running the show..

        ..from growing to retail..

        ..and as his crim-killer..

        ..he has deemed that cannabis will be sold to the public @ $2 per gram…

        ..(i prefer the second of those two models..who wouldn’t love pot @ $2 per gram..?..eh..?

        ..but cd live with the first..)

  5. freedom 7

    Philj asked (over on Dotcom thread)
    “Whatever happened to transparency, accountability and higher standards? ”

    Well, don’t ask Claudette Hauiti, it seems her knowledge on the topic is a bit light

    • The Lone Haranguer 7.1

      Claudette Hauiti is making Aaron Gilmore look like a winner.

      The Nats need to realise that putting all you diversity “ticks” in one box – Woman, Maori, Gay, and dare I say it “Intellectually challenged” hasnt worked so well for them.

      We will all have to hope that this particular lady will be recycled out the door on 20 September.

    • karol 7.2

      The interesting thing is that this has been put into the public arena, and is being given top of the page NZH coverage. And the TaxpayersUnion is there getting the boot in.

      Maybe the NActs aren’t keen to give her a high list placement? She slipped into the House from the list after the Nat resignations. She has been moved from standing as a south Auckland candidate, to Kelston, where she stands little chance against Carmel Sepuloni. My guess is that Hauiti’s political career will be pretty short. Not expecting a high list placement for her.

  6. there is some very cool stuff in this one..

    “..11 Simple Inventions That Could Change The World..

    So what are the little-known technologies that hold the power right now to transform the world for the better?

    We decided to find out – and give them their due..”


    (ed:..the electric bike-wheel is very very cool…)


  7. Lanthanide 9

    National’s lowest list position MP (replacement for Aaron Gilmore) defrauding the public: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10271326/MP-hands-in-her-charge-card-after-Australia-trip

    They really are scraping the bottom of the talent barrel.

    • bad12 9.1


      • freedom 9.1.1

        sorry guys I got the card down first 🙂

        • bad12

          True, i will have to give you the deck, be careful with them the whole foundation of the ‘house’ sits on them…

          • freedom

            Have you ever watched her read a ‘question’ in the House? Each word delivered with careful deliberation as if there is some subtle nuance to impart. She stands tall and beams with the self-satisfaction that it is She that has been deemed worthy of asking if the Minister of Carousels has received any reports on whatever they are spinning that day?

  8. bad12 10

    ”Don’t you know who i am”, such words, more fitting uttered from within a B grade mafia fillum could be said to have got MP ‘unhappy’ Aaron Gilmour the kick,

    Readers could be forgiven uttering the same phrase when confronted with the name of ‘Unhappies’ replacement, Claudette Hauiti,

    Given a naughty card for having hired on the ‘wife’ as an ‘issues assistant’ in Her electorate Office, Claudette could be said to have the perfect National Party sense of over-entitlement,

    Buried in the pages of Stuff.co.nz this morning is a little tale of Hauiti taking a trip on the parliament’s ‘P-Card’,(i kid you not),to Australia where She indulged of the ‘P-card’ for a pile of personal spending,

    Claudette has apparently handed back the credit card to Parliamentary Services and will face no sanctions from the National Government for having indulged in the mis-spending in the first place,

    If you or i indulged in such behavior, or lack of it, we could be assured of a date to face the Judge on fraud charges,

    Slippery the Prime Minister is probably eying up this particularly large pile of overblown entitlement for promotion to a Ministerial position so as She can treat Herself at our expense in a way She feels She should become accustomed to…

    • hoom 10.1

      That article is particularly odd for the fact it doesn’t once clearly state which party she is an MP for.
      I had to Google to confirm is a Nat MP.

      You can bet your arse if it’d have been a Labour MP, the fact it was Labour would be all over the article about the Labour MP & it’d have some throw away line from Key about tricky Labour refusing to punish their Labour MP.

      • greywarbler 10.1.1


      • freedom 10.1.2

        and the only figure mentioned is “$200 and something” for a flight to Oz ??

        That does seem a little low, or does the MP travel cattle class and found the very cheapest seat possible, which is understandable seeing as she is obviously so concerned with accounting for her expenditure. Then again, maybe the MP mistook her taxi chit for the flight ticket?

        • hoom

          Herald at least managed to start with ‘National MP’

          Hauiti herself is at least making a clear mea-culpa about it

          “Of course it’s absolutely no excuse for not knowing the Speaker’s rulings. It is my responsibility and I didn’t do it.”

          But also there is an absence of dates in both articles, while NZ Herald indicates the info comes from a recent Parliamentary Services release -> not an immediate mea-culpa but only once someone asked about it.

          • freedom

            I find it incredulous a new MP has their card removed for $200 of spending.

            Which is what the article suggests

            She said the trip over Christmas last year and other questionable spending, including refreshments for a hui on a marae, had cost about $200, which she has since repaid.

            So a trip to Australia, ‘other questionable spending’ and hui refreshments cost only $200 ___ TUI TIME

  9. Jenny Kirk 11

    I see that Wayne Mapp over at Pundit is agreeing with the economist that “zombie towns” like Moerewa and Kaikohe should be closed down.

    This is not only outrageous – where does he think all the people living in these towns will go ?
    But also it won’t solve inequality problems, and it shows little in the way of innovation, imagination
    or ideas on how these towns could be re-built with a bit of central govt funding and support.

    Its also contemptuous of the people who do now live in those towns – and who help support their local economy and their local communities.

    I guess this is just one example of how National politicians view people who are not rich ! Yuk !

    • greywarbler 11.1

      @Jenny Kirk
      I’m thinking of this morning’s Radionz conversation with Transport Minister etc Gerry Brownlee about Northlands roads and their dire state and the pleas of Councils for action. Everything is going thru due process, and the main roads will be cleared to let emergency supplies through. But what about the other roads, the feeder roads into rural areas and distant farms? And the need to get all those logs through to Whangarei port that when it was dry caused dust storms and traffic to come to a halt till there was visibility, also dust overlying paddocks and crops and houses and animals and children and houses etc. Asthma territory, distress and horrible conditions.

      Different than those enjoyed by those in Government and in the cosy Beehive and Bellamys. Who might not be so comfortable if they concentrated their minds on climate change and the forecast shift to changes in our weather with more tropical type moving south, a tendency for weather events to stay longer over one location, and a likelihood that some big event will happen not every century, but could be a number within a decade. Perhaps not nicely spaced out, but all in one year too. Time to build that old cathedral up in Christchurch and pray to bring back the past as well, when we still had hope and an economy earning and retaining money able to deal with disaster’s costs.

      Urbane Mr Brownlee says that TNZ I think the acronym used was Transport NZ, is conferring with councils as to priorities and he was vague about government money being offered. The Council commentator referred to their roading being equivalent to that of Auckland City but is maintained with just a fraction of Auckland’s rating return. There is nothing in the Northland kete to cope with this damage.

      And the answer by some economic moron here is just to shut towns down. A triumph of capitalism coupled with neo liberalism over human civilisation needs. In the USA cities have gone bankrupt. That is the sort of thinking that resulted in dead societies in the past. ‘Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!” (Horace Smith/Shelley)

      We actually have the brains and the technology and the experience to do something both intelligent and useful – the suitable quote I offer with earnest – from Baron Ernest Rutherford.

      “We haven’t got the money, so we’ve got to think!”.

      • phillip ure 11.1.1

        the cynical-spin put on this by the right..to justify the holiday highway..

        ..is that opponents to the holiday-highway are somehow ‘hurting’ the people of northland…

        ..this is absolute bullshit..

        (to believe that soon after this four-laner reaches holiday-home territory..that it will be nudging into kaitaia..would be taking cargo-cult beliefs to a whole new level..)

        ..and in nz we have rich/farming areas with roads like billiard-tables..(and they still scream for more more funding)..

        ..and northland is left with pot-holed cart-tracks as excuses for main roads..and major feeder-roads left unsealed..

        ..and haven’t those national electorate mp’s in northland for all these decades been really piss-weak in fighting for their constituents..eh..?

        ..as with everything from the bastards currently ruling over us..it is all lies/self-serving spin..

        • greywarbler

          @phillip ure
          roads like billiard tables. Try round Ashburton. Waiouru. What a dream to drive. Just some memories of when I looked round parts of the rohe.

          Went through Kaeo a while ago. You might remember it small place in Far North – gets flooded regularly. It is built on the river probably because it was handy on the river bank for the old mission station that started it off. Now it needs some government funding to move the main part of town to a higher area. Perhaps just some land that can be leased long term, and a bit of regional funding as they move the shops and amenities.

          The council have built up roads that act as barriers to the river but a storm coupled with high tide will flood them and so it goes on. Assistance to such rural and smaller areas, so they can improve their situations would be welcome from a sensible common sense government. Pity that sense isn’t common in government circles, or true concern for the people who need some help to make advances for themselves.

          Can’t just blame the local MPs – they are up against others with bigger, brighter schemes. Probably the only way they could get in some punches would be if they could get some leverage or perhaps dirt on someone influential in the Party and use it as subtle blackmail. And that would have to be done quickly and carefully while there was a window of opportunity, and before something could be manufactured against them. It would need something that was a game changer.to get anything done. If you have ever read John Mortimer’s Titmuss series, I think that they give a feel of what it is like in political circles. Don’t know but this year’s NZ revelations seem similar.

          • phillip ure

            don’t mean to be picky..

            ..but ‘waiouru’..?..’rich-farmers’?..

          • greywarbler

            @ phillip ure
            I was just thinking of roads like billiard tables and really nice to drive on. Rich farmers wasn’t the point. I remember the areas I mentioned were outstanding for the motorist.

        • jenny kirk

          In reply to Phillip Ure, the “holiday highway” opponents know that it is not going to go anywhere near where the actual roading need is – the HH ends at Wellsford (that’s over 110kms from Whangarei) and the state highway from Whangarei north starts to deteriorate – and is now totally closed because of massive slip just south of Kawakawa – while any potlential alternative routes are unsealed, narrow, country roads.

          Its a myth that the holiday highway will help the north ….. it will just help Aucklanders (and rich Nat PM and MPs) get as far as their holiday homes on the east coast, Omaha, Matakana, etc.

          Hey – and the HH is years away. The north (that is, the north past Whangarei) needs govt support and roading finance NOW !

          • phillip ure

            one that really puzzles me for not being sealed..is the cross-road from sh1 to taipa..thru peria..

            ..as it wd make a perfect tourism-loop/experience..

            ..and if only for those reasons..you’d think that shd get some priority..

            • jenny kirk

              Yeah – to Phillip U – it would. Maybe if we can get a different govt in, we can then get some real strategic thinking and planning on what would really help the north …. here’s hoping !

    • deep throat 11.2

      @ jenny kirk
      thats strange.
      yesterday nathan guy and whats her name were on the teevee flashing their pearly whites and telling the nation just how much they were going to do for these people.

  10. Pete 12

    The hand wringing over the price of milk proves Cunliffe’s point about diversifying the economy.

  11. Colonial Viper 14

    GCHQ online dirty tricks toolkit+ programme code names

    Read this and tell me if you still want NZ General Elections conducted online. Apart from being able to change online polls at will there’s this one:

    “Ability to spoof any email address and send email under that identity” (CHANGELING)

    Pretty handy stuff if you can get it.

    • “Change outcome of online polls” (UNDERPASS)

    • “Mass delivery of email messaging to support an Information Operations campaign” (BADGER) and “mass delivery of SMS messages to support an Information Operations campaign” (WARPARTH)

    • “Disruption of video-based websites hosting extremist content through concerted target discovery and content removal.” (SILVERLORD)

    • “Active skype capability. Provision of real time call records (SkypeOut and SkypetoSkype) and bidirectional instant messaging. Also contact lists.” (MINIATURE HERO)

    • “Find private photographs of targets on Facebook” (SPRING BISHOP)

    • “A tool that will permanently disable a target’s account on their computer” (ANGRY PIRATE)

    • “Ability to artificially increase traffic to a website” (GATEWAY) and “ability to inflate page views on websites” (SLIPSTREAM)

    • “Amplification of a given message, normally video, on popular multimedia websites (Youtube)” (GESTATOR)

    • “Targeted Denial Of Service against Web Servers” (PREDATORS FACE) and “Distributed denial of service using P2P. Built by ICTR, deployed by JTRIG” (ROLLING THUNDER)

    • “A suite of tools for monitoring target use of the UK auction site eBay (www.ebay.co.uk)” (ELATE)

    • “Ability to spoof any email address and send email under that identity” (CHANGELING)

    • “For connecting two target phone together in a call” (IMPERIAL BARGE)


    • hmm.!!..

      ..wd skype-ing votes..and facial-recognition software circumvent those hacking problems…?

      • Colonial Viper 14.1.1

        Not sure that using thoroughly compromised software platforms and then adding additional layers of ad hoc complexity on top of them is the way to go.

        • phillip ure

          sorry..excuse my dumbness..but is that answering my question..?

          ..surely facial recognition for a vote could only be done once..?

          ..and only by the person named on the electoral-role..?

          ..how cd that be ‘compromised’..?

          • phillip ure

            it wd also see a big uptake in those eligible to vote who are out of the country..

            ..they can just get ‘recognised’ online..and then vote..

            ..easy as..

            ..i repeat..given the perilous scenarios posited..

            ..how cd this be ‘compromised’..?

          • bad12

            You cant be dumb Phillip, or do they hand out Uni degrees to the dumb these days…

          • The Al1en

            “sorry..excuse my dumbness”

            What if we all started wearing V for Vendetta masks?

        • phillip ure

          i wonder why the ‘expert’/pontificator on such manners..cd/did not answer that skype/face-recognition software question/possible-solution to all the problems he listed..?

          ..it was an honest question..not a piss-take..

          • emergency mike

            CV answered your question at 14.1.1 above.

            “..but is that answering my question..?”

            Yes it is.

            “..excuse my dumbness..”

            Note that saying that in no way obliges him to do so.

    • greywarbler 14.2

      @Colonial Viper
      Thanks for bringing this to our attention. It’s a serious matter, and some people need to keep a clear head about IT technology. It is embraced so fervently as still the latest and best thing since sliced bread by so many people. But they only learn from it what they want to, not the down side. Not the findings of concerned people from other countries like the USA for instance, which show how it can be discombobulated in a big way.

      And the thought chills me of government wanting to cut down personal interaction and physical presence with people a la HousingNZ and just use technological means to communicate with citizens. Using call centres perhaps not even in NZ (cf Fearfax and its admin from Manila)!

      The toffs on the hill just need to cut the lines and how, where do you get to discuss things with your representatives in your local and central government? Or the people in private business which now supply what are government services to you who are rorting you. Sorry say gummint that’s an operational matter.

      Sorry say the call centre our lines are busy today, phone again at 11pm when things are quieter or tomorrow possibly. Oh yes there is a long wait isn’t there, you didn’t like the music sorry, I have looked but can’t find your name in our databank sorry, you are not registered with us.

      Who should you contact? Well there is a special help number run out of the Phillipines, but it costs $2 a minute and it can take 30 minutes of waiting before you can get through, so I recommend you phone about 3am our time as that is daytime over there. (This information may be incorrect but let’s face it who would care, and what are you going to do about it sucker, if we get to the scenario I have presented.)

      • JK 14.2.1

        Scarey scenario, Grey Warbler ….. and like you, I think this is a possibility in the future.

    • Te Reo Putake 14.3

      I’m a bit worried about “CHANGELING”. I always thought his comments were quite sensible.

    • emergency mike 14.4

      ““For connecting two target phone together in a call” (IMPERIAL BARGE)”

      Hmm what’s that about? Manufacturing ‘evidence’ of communication between two individuals?

  12. this one is a head-bender..

    two weeks ago..dynamo..on a sky sport show..

    ..predicted that germany wd win the world cup with a goal in the 113th minute…

    ..and that neymeyer wd be out with a back-injury..and wd not play in that final..


    now..how the fuck did he do that..?

  13. bad12 16

    Laughable from the Herald this morning, accessed online,(never paid for), a survey of a coupe of thousand shoppers who buy at the supermarket chains,

    The headline: Big Backing for Sugarless,(checkout),Lanes,

    34.1% of respondents want the checkout lanes to be free of all those sugar filled ‘treats’ that tempt us as we wait,

    22% of those say that they would deliberately seek out supermarkets that provided such ‘sugar free checkouts’

    70%,(snigger, welcome to the diabetes epidemic), of those surveyed basically couldn’t give a toss,(i can hear the masters at the food production companies quietly laughing up their sleeves as i type this),

    The laughter???, i can well imagine Mum’s chagrin as She is cajoled,berated, and, implored by wee Janet or John, the offspring, at the supermarket checkout to include in the weekly shop one of the many sugar laden ‘rushes’ oh so conveniently placed by the cynical sugar rush industry at the checkout,

    ”No you cannot have that it will rot your teeth, and, you can have a nice healthy multi-grain bread sandwich when we get home” would be the usual standard reply from Mum,

    What Mum tho doesn’t seem to know is that the loaf of bread She believes to be ‘oh so healthy’ is by the slice loaded with so much sugar that giving wee Janet or John a couple of slices each to make that sandwich is enough to have them breaching their daily recommended intake of sugar,

    Mmmm, brown and multi-grain breads tho have got to be healthier for you right???, not a show, its all loaded with sugar, in the case of brown and multi-grain breads its worse,

    All industrial produced flours are bleached white at the production stage of the flour,when it comes to making ‘brown bread, and, ‘multi-grain bread’ they add food coloring to make it look brown,

    Eat a piece of bread raw and see just how ‘sweet’ it is, butter and other spreads simply act as masking agents to cover up that sugar load in each slice…

    • Draco T Bastard 16.1

      You’re starting to sound like phillip ure.

      • bad12 16.1.1

        If you can hear sounds by reading what i write Draco i suggest you urgently consult your shrink,(i could suggest a couple of other personal delusions you might want to avail Her/Him of while your on the couch),

        In 1997, 3000 deaths were reported in New Zealand due to complications brought about by overweight/obesity in the population,(news for you Draco, sugar when unused by the human body is stored as fat),

        In 1996, 1500 deaths were recorded in New Zealand from complications surrounding diabetes, the vast majority of these deaths type 2 diabetes, these deaths are not from the human body having no ability to produce insulin, these deaths are from the amount of consumed sugar overpowering the individuals ability to produce enough insulin to cope with the overdose,

        Those figures are ‘old’ and the death toll has since risen to yearly be more than that attributed to tobacco,(anyone with later figures, i would appreciate a look at them),

        There are 50 new cases of type two diabetes reported daily in this country which in a few years will be costing the health system a billion dollars annually and some in the health field are speculating that on its current trajectory, by 2050, type 2 diabetes might feature in 50% of the population,

        Off you go back to sleep Draco, dream your little fantasies while the masters load up your food with sugar…

        • Draco T Bastard


          • bad12

            Figures, no intelligence apparent in the latest comment either…

            • Draco T Bastard

              You complain to phillip over his veganism and his advocating for marijuana and yet, here you are with you’re over the top harping on about sugar.

              • bad12

                Complain Draco, you will have to point out this complaining,

                ”Over the top harping on about sugar”, so opening up a discussion about the misuse of a product, Sugar, by the industrialized food industry which piles it into products with no care of the adverse health effects leading to the deaths of thousands on an annual basis and a soon to be billion dollar health bill in your words is ”over the top” and ”harping”,

                That you see such deaths as nothing more than harping would have me viewing your latest comment on the subject as something that the likes of SSLands would be likely to publish…

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Well, I suppose whinging might be more accurate.

                  • bad12

                    So you have no actual debate in any regards about the question of the unnecessary loading of sugar into processed foods by those in control of this industry,who would have thunk that when asked the question you would expose the space in your cranium to be full of air,(an unkind person might insinuate shit),

                    Instead, and laughably, you want to debate about me, again who would have thunk that you contain such a paucity of intellect that such a serious subject as the poisoning of 1000’s of your fellow humans by the very foods they are encouraged to buy and consume fails to register in what passes for your mind,

                    my humility, Ha ha ha, prevents me from expounding upon just how great i am…

  14. greywarbler 17

    There was trailer on Radionz early news reports – something about what you do if your daughter wants to be a princess. Priceless!

    In the past the people were denied such ‘bright and soft’ news. it wasn’t the custom to make it general news, it was just kept for the ladies page. Women were thought not willing or able to cope with the hard, gritty stuff. Now the public media wants to put everyone in this gormless condition. But it’s already covered by pulp fiction magazines fronted by attractive women gazing from supermarket shelves. An array of large mouths, unnaturally white teeth, hair like a pony’s tail with all the tips on how to look and behave. Let them cover the princess market FGS.

    Possible past use of mood-enhancing snippets:

    We regret to announce that we have declared war and keep listening for further news, in the meantime we have an item on how to become a princess.
    The observers in Europe are shocked at the conditions in concentration camps and we will soon bring you tips on how to become a princess.

    There are thought to be 29 miners remaining trapped in the Pike River Mine and we…
    Military maneouvres are being practised by eleven countries (not however including China) in host country New Zealand and now we will bring….

    • Zorr 17.1

      I have to ask, did you actually listen to the “princess” section? I hear that title and wonder whether it would be light and fluffy (as you seem to assume) or actually an in-depth discussion of changing gender role models within society and how to deal with it if your daughter still likes pink and crowns…

  15. good news..!..there is a god..!

    ..jeremy kyle got pepper-sprayed by a nightclub-bouncer..

    ..(‘good news’ for many..i feel..)


  16. This may have already been linked to but I’ll put it up because it really made me feel great.


    We are progressive, young and educated, and we’ve figured out that the future doesn’t lie in old models, nostalgia or in running away from transformation. This means being brave. The Internet Party can be brave because we have no previous baggage. The Internet Party must be brave because what we represent is too important to shy away from.

    Make your choice – Miriam has, I have.

  17. greywarbler 20

    I didn’t listen to it. I am using it as an example of the way that the media is constantly messing with the news, diluting it, fitting ads into it, stroking the wealthy in it, supporting their favourite side in it, appealing to the masses who can be sold something in it, blah blah and on and on.

    And getting at the people who can’t think beyond princesses and adore style and looks and are put off by substance and don’t show any interest in reality. And it may have been a sly way of introducing something serious and important to people. But it sounded more about how some like to think life is instead of just when it’s dress up and carnival time.

    That’s what is going through my head and the precise details of what was said and what the item was about is not my main concern so don’t take it too literally.

  18. Puckish Rogue 21


    “The sales data released by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment for the year ending March 2014, shows the lowest annual price increase since 2001 at 2.3 per cent,” Mr Bridges says.

    Well done National

  19. I know politics isn’t meant to be about personalities and should be all about the policy, stupid.
    And I know we’ve had releases from our side, and it has to be said, some good one’s too.
    And I know it’s the lull before the storm electioneering wise, but even as a committed voter to the cause, touching on recent comments I’ve made about timing and getting in people’s faces for maximum effect, I’m not getting a feel good vibes from our leaders.

    If the game has partly or wholly changed to personality politics, then change you must, or you lose. That’s evolution and Darwinism in action.
    If that hasn’t been realised (in both senses of the word) at the top tables, then someone best put the TV coaching they’ve had to good use and get their smiling faces front and center instead of grimacing and scowling at mum and dad New Zealand.

    I accept wrongs should be righted and ministers held to account, but if you’re only getting limited airtime you can’t afford to waste it. Honest John won’t when he has to front up to Campbell when he comes home from holiday, again.
    Hope JC points out, unlike the last time, when JK says you aren’t paying attention, he has the balls and the info to say “actually, yes I have, and here’s what we know”.

    • freedom 22.1

      “actually, yes I have, and here’s what we know” and Campbell proceeds, for the duration of the show, to read aloud the entirety of Blip’s List . . . before the screen suddenly goes blank

      • David H 22.1.1

        Has anyone ever sent John Campbell a Blip’s list?

        • The Al1en

          Someone should. Would be great if Campbell opened with it after saying hello. Seven uncomfortable minutes until the ad break, or if he doesn’t walk out or chicken out or both, the full show. I’m sure the two headed tortoise piece can wait for another day, and serious as the issue of flooding in sunken Christchurch suburbs is, and how special blue paint is great and all, when all the people want is to just live where it won’t flood for ever more, thirty minutes of gotcha would be riveting stuff. It would certainly make up for the Herald and TV3’s discredit agenda.

          I’d do it myself, but they’ve never responded before. I think it’s my user name that puts them off.
          I’d miss the Simpsons for that any day, except maybe for a new Halloween episode. He’d have to convince in the last adverts before seven. Come on John, do it. lol.

  20. Tiger Mountain 23

    Laila Harré at Cape Reinga yesterday, she is really quite good on camera, this is only 1.40 min with a rather apt last line.

  21. mickysavage 24

    I keep an eye on Slater’s blog to see what the right is doing.

    Today he has come up with a conspiracy theory which is quite unique in that you don’t to whether to be more amazed at how crazy it is or more offended at how misogynist it is. He is claiming that Tania Billingsley was some sort of trap for the Malaysian diplomat …

    • fender 24.1

      Big ups to you Micky for risking the health of your eyes…

      Slater is a total arsehole to suggest such a thing, he likes to prove he can go lower and lower than anyone imagined possible.

    • freedom 24.2

      Thanks for bringing this to everyone’s attention mickysavage.
      Let’s all make sure people know exactly how low Slater has gone

      Here is a screenshot of the post for folk to share,
      for those who do not want to go near Slater’s site
      (2nd link includes comments)

      View post on imgur.com

      View post on imgur.com

      The screaming question to his vapid opinion is if as Mr Slater contends, the diplomat has not been charged, then why would the Malaysian Government ask our Government to drop all charges?

      (+ wtf is that Bush Tucker rubbish meant to be about)

      • idlegus 24.2.1

        thanks for the screenshots, i never go to that site, but jeez theres some unhinged nutters on there.

      • McFlock 24.2.2

        that’s… rather special.
        “The evidence is out there”???
        Very X-Files.

        Let along the comment list with such gems as “Is Billingley a real person or a puppet?”.
        But most of the rest of the screenshot reminds me to avoid that place like the plague.

      • mickysavage 24.2.3

        Thanks freedom but would you believe there is a post that is even worse …

        Bomber talks about it at http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/07/16/surely-whaleoil-insinuating-tania-billingsley-led-her-rapist-on-is-the-new-lowest-of-the-low/

        • McFlock

          Best blogsite of the year, apparently…

        • Tracey

          Well slater was happy to reveal the name of a sexual abuse victim against her wishes to promote himself and his crusade de jour.

        • freedom

          After finding the story I grabbed the shots of, I admit I did not look further as I did not imagine even the sewer would stoop so low on a topic of such real consequence.

          Shows how wrong a person can be. The site is simply poison.

          Reading the full ‘article’, my only reaction is not printable

          but here is the ‘article’. I won’t share the comments this time

          View post on imgur.com


          • karol

            Give some people enough rope. A good link to use in demonstrating how rape complainants and survivors are put on trial – and CS is asking for info that would likely be part of a court case. Unbelievable.

            • freedom

              I am so angry and the thoughts of how best to deal with this scum have actually triggered a full on anxiety attack and I have had to take meds for the first time in over a year.

              I cannot imagine how Tania Billingsley must be reacting.
              To all those who are supporting Tania,
              Thank you and may you all be safe

              • karol

                Take care. It maybe should have a trigger warning on that post… and the site.

                Yes, it shows what Tania Billingsley is having to put up with.

                That post also reminds me why I rarely go to the WO site. And I am beyond understanding why anyone in the National Party, let alone the PM, want to be associated with it.

                • freedom

                  Slater and the cretins posting in support of his ‘article’ just show how little they understand of what they do .

                  • freedom

                    or if they do understand, they simply expose how vile large portions of our communities are and how lost they really have become.
                    Not sure which is of greater concern.

    • Tracey 24.3

      Has gosman questioned him relentlessly? And slylands and puckish rogue

      • Rodel 24.3.1

        Slater’s faecal writing has hit the fan on website ‘Femnist Aotearoa’ who have published his rubbish fully so women don’t have to look at his site and contribute to his already inflated hit list ego.
        My feminist friends are angry, very angry.
        I have sent them a photo of Key and Slater hugging each other to publish on their site.

        It may well be that Key loses every New Zealand woman’s votes and Cam loses a key close friend.

        I guess it depends on how widely the Slater-Key relationship is publicized..

        • freedom

          have you got a link to share?
          not having much luck with google finding it

    • David H 24.4

      I hope you get a good electricity price on your hot water for your troubles there micky.

  22. Skinny 25

    I have noticed Labour candidates doing a bit too much self promotion of themselves opposed to promoting the party vote. The one candidate I’ve noticed getting it right is Tamati Coffey. Well done mate!
    To those who should know better wake the hell up, this had a big part in last elections hiding!

  23. aerobubble 26

    Cyclists are pedestrians. Cycles are parked up everywhere, from hallways to fences, to assorted street furniture. There are no dedicated cycle parking spaces next to the road, no fines for parking. Bicycles are like rollerskating, a tool for pedestrians to get around.

    Now I think its very harmful to view bicycles as road vehicles, or their equivalent. Take the recent panelist on Moro who said that he was deeply concerned at cyclists joining the traffic from anywhere. Since we all know that cars come out of obvious side roads, obvious road junctions, obvious car parking spaces. They have indicators, are large, are deeply entrenched in road laws to maintain safety. Bicycles are not, there can be locked up everywhere, and pedestrians hop on the everywhere and anywhere to join traffic JUST LIKE PEDESTRAINS who seek to cross traffic.

    Because we need to see Cyclists as Pedestrians, and keep our distance, slow down. They are just as vulnerable as any other pedestrian. As to accidents, accidents will not occur if you see a bicyclist joining the traffic, and the more there are, the more you will see them, and get used to them turning up, and so lowering your speed where you know where cyclists are (town centers). And the idea that cyclists are dying because they enter traffic and surprise car drivers is false, since the accidents that kill, like the women who swerved to avoid a car door and was run over by a truck, or the child avoiding the street work bollard and was run over by a truck, or the family in Rotorua out cycling and run over by a truck, in none of these cases were they entering the road, they were there already and for some time.

    Moro panelists are a joke sometimes, saying that it angered him that cyclists enter traaffic that it causes accidents, NO, cyclists have very much more to lose, and there are bad cyclists and bad drivers who get unnecessarily concerned about cyclists sharing ther road with them. Since if that were the case, anger is not the answer, slowing down and keeping your distance, as they RE PEDESTRIANS!!

  24. karol 27

    I learnt a new word today : orthorexia

    a ‘fixation on righteous eating’ which causes people to ‘become consumed with what and how much to eat, and how to deal with “slip-ups,”‘ according to the American National Eating Disorders Association.

    I tend not to get too much into foodie debates. I am for healthy lifestyles… but also for a fair amount of flexibility and the maxim “everything in moderation”… and the other “a little bit of what you fancy”.

    • fender 27.1

      Hi Karol, love your work. I learnt via Freedoms links above that there are some frothing at the mouth right wingers who are incredibly frightened by your superior intellect to the degree that they call you names. And the chief imbecile (Slater) thinks that because you said “Billingsley, and I had no confidence that they would follow through…” that you must be involved in some elaborate conspiracy.

      Keep up the great work, watching these frothers disappear under their own froth is entertaining…

      • karol 27.1.1

        Slater mentioned me? * raises eyebrows * … and thinks I’m involved in some conspiracy with Billingsley ?…. *wide grin of disbelieve on my face *

        Well, there you go…. if I needed any further evidence to be cynical about anything published on the WO blog…. journalist indeed!

        PPS: Ah, I see there’s a misread of my quote. In fact, there should be another comma after “and I”. I have not now, nor ever had any communication with Billingsley, ….. nor Jan Logie, nor any Green Party people about Billingsley. I only have gone on what I read online.

        I am not a Green Party member. I vote Green. I have offered to help as a foot soldier in their election campaign – you know… like delivering leaflets, etc.

        • fender


          He suffers from Authorexia or Author-rectum-exia..

          • karol

            And now it makes me think twice about participating as a volunteer. I have just been thinking I need to do more than participate via blog posts and comments.

          • Rodel

            No. He suffers from delusions of mediocrity-or just delusions.
            There are plenty of journalists out there who are biased, stupid or just incompetent but when they have delusions, there is usually an editor (or a shrink) who can stop their delusions being published. Unfortunately in Mr Slater’s case there is no one to do this.. except perhaps the women of New Zealand.

    • @ karol..

      ..the treatment of the animals you eat..before you eat them..doesn’t feature on yr radar..?

      • karol 27.2.1

        It does. I don’t each much animal food, especially not from factory-farmed animals. Don’t eat very much meat.

        • phillip ure

          u wd b a potential customer for ethical/cruelty-free meat then…eh..?

          • karol

            Actually, I never buy and cook meat. Occasionally I buy and cook fish. I only eat meat at restaurants and when it’s dished up to me at people’s places.

            But, like I pretty much said. I’m not very strict about my eating. There’s pros and cons for eating many things.

            I am more concerned with the macro/institutional aspects of business practices re environmental sustainability, and cruel practices.

            As I said, I’m not a foodie, and am not into spending very much time on such debates.

            • phillip ure

              my mistake..there i was thinking you had kicked this debate off..

              ..did you take a seagull-approach to it..?

              • karol

                No. It’s the term orthorexia that caught my attention. You seem to have nothing to say about it..

                • ‘about’ peoples’ obsessions with killing and eating animals..?..when they don’t have to..on so many levels..?

                  ..and can’t imagine a life without masticating animal-flesh @ regular intervals..?

                  ..once again..when they don’t have to..?

                  ..others tell me i say far too much about that manifestation of orthorexia already..

                  ..but if you insist…

                  • fender

                    “..others tell me i say far too much about that manifestation of orthorexia already..”

                    Yeah Lucy told me she’s sick of surviving on toast and lacks the energy to get off the blankie…

                    • you should have seen her scooting thru the park about 40 mins ago…

                      ..and she is 16 yrs old..and looks/moves/runs like a fit/healthy 5 yr old..

                      ..she cd be a poster-child for the vegan diet for dogs…shiny coat and all..

                      ..(btw..they just love fresh tofu..and so much more..toast is just a treat..)

                      ..and yesterday at the park..there was someone with a 14 yr old dog..who could barely drag herself across the grass..

                      ..his mind was blown when i told him lucy is 16…

                      ..and lives on a vegan diet..

                      ..the undeniable-evidence was right b4 his eyes..

                      ..the only downside with lucy is that she is a terrible bully..

                      ..and if i haven’t done things by the time she deems right..

                      ..she gets quite antsy/standoverish..

                      ..bordering on demanding..

                    • she has been with me long enough to know what buttons to push..

                      ..to get me to do her will..

                      ..and i have been around/dug dogs all my life..

                      ..i had my first dog b4 i cd walk..

                      ..and she is the smartest/most clever/intuitive..of all those dogs..

                • bad12

                  Do you see ‘orthorexia’ to be a pejorative term karol, i would suggest in terms of Fats/Sugars in our foods we all need to become a little orthorexic,

                  The correlation between Fats/Sugars in our health statistics is becoming glaringly apparent,(at least to me), the annual death toll rivaling that attributed to tobacco use,

                  As continual overdose of Sugar in the diet is metabolized by the body into stored Fat the two categories of health issues, obesity/diabetes, cannot be viewed in any way as separate issues, and while no political action is taken to curb the mis-use of sugar in all processed foods the death toll will rise,

                  50 new diabetes cases reported in New Zealand each and every day,


                  By 2050 half of the population may be at risk of becoming type 2 diabetic,


                  • McFlock

                    I would have thought that, rants about sugarism or veganism or high fructose corn syrup aside, the very existence of the word orthorexia simply reminds us that the healthiest method of eating is moderation in all things (including worrying about health).

                    • “..the healthiest method of eating is moderation in all things..”

                      i’m calling ‘bullshit!’ on that one..

                      ..show me one reputable dietician saying eat more red-flesh/animal-fats..

                      ..that’s ‘cos that shit is bad 4 u..that’s why..

                      (..and cd i just dissolve that chimera that because i advocate on this subject..that i am sitting in judgement on everyone else..

                      ..once again..’bullshit..!..i just don’t do that..i mean..f.f.s..!..i’m an ex-junkie/ex-con..i don’t make blanket judgements on people for matters thus/addictive-habits,,..

                      ..idiots..?..now that’s another story..i sure as hell feel fucken superior to them..

                      ..how could you not..?..

                      ..i am just laying out the undeniable facts of the situation..and advocating on the behalf of the animals..

                      ..and if being faced with/confronted by those uncomfortable facts makes people uneasy..and maybe makes them think..(lash out..?..with the only argument-option to hand..attack the messanger..)..

                      ..so be it..

                      ..but how about arguing the case..?..eh..?

                      ..not just taking great assumption-leaps..

                      ..to come to wrong/fanciful conclusions..

                    • McFlock

                      too garbled, didn’t read.

                  • karol

                    Yes, bad, the term does have pejorative overtones, although, it also highlights the dangers of extremism over food. I think part of the problem is in guilt-tripping individuals about the food they eat. There are so many individual differences about how foods interacts with metabolism and lifestyle limitations.

                    Many of the problems, like that of the sugar industry, can be dealt with at an institutional/system level. The problem is with the sugar industry, and the way they promote their products and infiltrate all kinds of food products.

                    Some people can eat a fair amount of sugar with no side effects. Most people can eat some sugary stuff as a treat, now and then.

                    I’ve seen it in my own family – 1 totally against sugary food, sweet things, and another who ate a fair amount of it. Guess who had the longest healthiest life?

                    Ditto for the consumption of, and industrial approaches to animal food. Humans have eaten animals since way back. I can’t see it ending any time soon. In NZ, there is probably, on average, too high a consumption of some animal products. But again, the issue is with the industry and their processes of production and marketing.

                    Leave individuals to make their own choices.

                    Guilt-tripping individuals does more harm than good. And, as I said, I go for moderation in most issues around food, and not getting too obsessive about it.

                    Relax and enjoy. As on many other issues, there’s also a place for encouraging an informed understanding. Ultimately, though, advice does keep changing, but nutritionists and others do keep talking about moderation, and the importance of a diverse diet.

                    • bad12

                      ”Leave individuals to make their own choices”, to believe in such ‘individual choice’ you would have to believe that there is no silent Obesity/Diabetes epidemic killing people every day???,

                      ‘Choices’ are largely made around ‘education’ and ‘economy, i see little of this education occurring, and, what ‘choice’ do the poor have but the ‘poorest of food’ , how many people know such a simple piece of information as the daily recommended sugar intake for children and adults????,

                      Your argument about longevity has been applied to those who use tobacco, you favor Government action against tobacco use do you not???…

                    • karol

                      Of course individuals have limited choices – some more limited than others. That’s part of why I’m not into focusing on indiviuals’ choices and into focusing on the industries and their marketing.

                      Not tobacco USE (except when the use of the product impacts on the air others breathe – the tobacco industry and its marketing. Ditto the booze industry and marketing.

                      There is quite a bit of info around about the problems with sugar.

                    • bad12

                      ”There’s quite a bit of information around about the problems with sugar”,

                      Rather glib don’t you think karol, couple the above with the ‘fact’ that 20% of people have escaped the education system as functional illiterates, then add in the fact that this 20% will have the poor economy and thus in the majority have little ‘choice’ but the ‘poor diet’ with a high percentage of these being brown, and, such ‘information’ might as well be smoke signals…

                    • Ergo Robertina

                      But Karol doesn’t change come from the flax roots? How will macro/institutional change be effected without this?
                      Individuals can only make good choices if the underlying settings are right.
                      An example is the new ‘healthy food star rating’ system coming our way. Trim milk will score 5/5 while full-fat milk will get 3.5/5, according to the NZ Herald. Orange juice will rank higher than full fat milk. It’s an industry friendly regime, all to enable the consumer to make ‘good choices’ of course.

                    • karol

                      Changes do come from the grass roots. But it won’t be a change for the better if it just involves guilt-tripping individuals rather than being focused on industry and institutional change.

                      I see a lot of the issues being to do with a rampant consumer society – they are issues that focus on increasing consumption over working towards the social good.

                    • Ergo Robertina

                      The lack of balance in our approach to diet (as a society) is due to both free market forces, and academics whose ego driven research needlessly stigmatised fats.
                      I agree guilt-tripping does nothing to change the settings, and that food is tied in with our way of living, working, and consuming. But it’s a route into the wider issues: consumerism, the environment, health, the way we work – rather than something that is just bundled into the bigger progressive picture without too much thought. It is no coincidence those most affected by the obesity and type 2 diabetes disaster are also most hit by the smashing of the unions, flexibility of labour markets, and high cost of healthy food.
                      But finding a way to talk about it constructively is quite difficult.

  25. Sable 28

    Anyone wanting to see how corrupt our so called government has become:


    • @ sable..

      ..shit..!..thnx 4 the heads-up..

      ..i’ll link to it..

      (they will probably try to rush this thru b4 the election…


      ..(is the will-never-be-passed-tpp just a stalking-horse for this sucker..?…)

    • One Anonymous Bloke 29.1

      That’s why peer review is so important. Since you can’t check your assumptions, we’re here to do it for you 😈

      • Puckish Rogue 29.1.1

        People on here think the herald its a right-wing paper while people over at whaleoil think its a left-wing paper

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          Or the monumental disasters and multiple deaths resulting from right wing climate denial and market fundamentalism.

        • karol

          So that means it’s necessary to look beyond the completing claims to the substance that they base their claims on.

    • McFlock 29.2

      reminds me of the old story of someone who went into a shop looking for a particular product, and the sales assistant said something like “I keep having to tell people, we don’t stock it because there’s no demand for it”.

      I.e. the columnist drew enough comments about his lack of positive comments about labour’s performance that he had to justify it by saying that he didn’t think they were doing well, cf: the polls. But if this assessment (compared with the nats) were truly fair, he wouldn’t need to justify it.

    • Molly 29.3

      Is that the same Liam Hehir that has taken to commenting on here and TDB, and is systematically corrected after posting half-baked ideas?

    • karol 30.1

      What are you just saying? Why should I click on your link?

      • phillip ure 30.1.1


        ..if readers have any interest in the privatising of education.. charter-schools/vouchers etc..

        ..it is worth the read..

        ..sweden has more charter schools than anywhere in the world..

        ..and they have really fucked up..

        ..their international rankings have plummeted since they listened to milton friedman..

      • Draco T Bastard 30.1.2

        It’s about the failure of the Charter School system in Sweden.

        • Belladonna

          The Deputy Leader of N.Z. First is pushing for charter schools, so I was told by a
          Nat voter who is thinking of voting NZ First as a protest against Key. I just dont trust Winnie.

          • Tautoko Viper

            I wouldn’t trust your Nat source. Here is some info from the NZ First
            18 Jun 2014
            Taxpayers’ Money At Risk In Charter Schools
            Tracey Martin
            It is unlikely the government will ever recover money from a charter school’s land and buildings if the school fails, says New Zealand First.”


            • Belladonna

              I think I do trust my nat source at this stage. Wouldn’t be the first time Winnie has said he would do one thing and did the opposite. However I hope I am wrong and he goes with the left.

          • Draco T Bastard

            NZFirst Manifesto (PDF)

            New Zealand First is strongly opposed to “charter” or “partnership” schools; public funding for these privately owned profit making opportunities would be ended by New
            Zealand First.

            You’ll find that on page 26.

  26. Clemgeopin 31

    I don’t seem to get the ‘subscribe’/Confirm email these days.

    Also, sometimes the ‘edit’ button does not work as it says ‘loaded successfully’ straight after posting.

    Is anyone else having these problems ?

    • bad12 31.1

      Have a look at the ‘cookies’ in your computer, the problem could be internal…

  27. deep throat 32

    wail boil is actually a paranoiac.
    he attributes all his perversions and deviancy to others in the vain hope that he will escape notice by deflecting attention elsewhere..
    the thing is with paranoids is that when they think you know their secret then they will try and kill you!
    watchout for the “THING”.

  28. tinfoilhat 33

    The Greens are on the up and up in the latest Roy Morgan.

    ……the Greens are 15% (up 3% – the highest since August 26-September 8, 2013)

    • Beryl Streep 33.1

      Meanwhile in the same poll, Labour is down 4.5% and National is up 3%.

      It seems like the soft Labour vote may be starting to pick their side as the election looms closer. Most of it is shifting to the Greens but a smaller amount is shifting towards National.

      Labour and the parties to the left of Labour have a busy couple of months ahead to raise their vote.

    • Clemgeopin 33.2

      I am STILL confident of a Labour led coalition government forming.

      Here are the reasons:

      The Labour’s dismal 23% I suspect is the superficial but temporary reaction to Cunliffe’s ‘ashamed to be a man’ quote. That was on July 4th. The poll period was June 30 to July 13. People misunderstood the serious reason for his statement. Labour will bounce back to over 30% by election date.

      National’s current 51% will collapse to around 44%.

      NZF will cross 6%.

      So will Internet-Mana to about 5% with two electorate wins.

      There were 5.5% in the poll who did not specify which party would get their party vote. I suspect the bulk of those 5.5% will not favour the right wing.

      Many major policies are yet to be announced. Campaign proper has not yet started. Debates have not yet happened. Party policy materials have not yet reached homes. Two months is a long time in politics.

      All in all, there is a greater chance of a left wing coalition than a right wing one.

      • Te Reo Putake 33.2.1

        Yep, you’re on the money. If we needed any proof of the depth of misogynist feeling in NZ, this poll is it. Onwards and upwards, we’re still gonna win.

        • Clemgeopin

          The ignorance of people, even well educated ones, about politics and the REAL issues is appalling. I see that in my own family and among some of my friends where they are clued on on superficial material stuff, silly sitcoms and dumbed down news stories far more than serious issues. There in lies Hash-Key’s advantage!

          If you look at the TM graphs, you will see that during some of the serious debates such as the spying issues etc, National was as low as 41%. Now not so, because public memory and loyalty is very fickle! Slide your cursor over the National graph below at different months and see how low and high they have been at different times.


      • Saarbo 33.2.2

        Yes, I agree. Labour has outstanding Policy, but people who I thought would be up with the play on current affairs are completely ignorant of what Labour are offering. I suspect that as we get into more campaigning people will see more and become more aware of Labour’s outstanding Housing Policy, Monetary Policy , Education Policy, CGT, re balancing of our economics…all of these policies will improve our nation as compared to how National is running the country.

        One of the major problems is our useless main stream media, case in point: refer TV3’s 3rd Degree tonight, eight weeks from an election, I would have thought any half decent current affairs show would be considering Politics. Native Affairs does politics regularly. The NZH will always play down any Labour Policy.

        23.5% is surprising, but when you consider the support from the MSM that National have, perhaps not. When full campaigning starts…Labour’s message is strong and will get through, and then our share of the vote will improve.

  29. Morrissey 34

    Shallow minds and GUILTY FEET ain’t got no rhythm
    Watch this and cringe.

    Celebrities dance on the Ellen DeGeneres Show.

    (People with GUILTY FEET are in CAPITAL LETTERS.)

    Marilyn Milian, Rashida Jones, Jessica Biel, Carmen Electra, Drew Barrymore, Vanessa Hudgens, Emily Blunt, Christina Applegate, Pink, Heidi Klum, Oprah Winfrey, Beyoncé Knowles, Michelle Obama, BARACK OBAMA, Jessica Lange, Will Smith, Drew Barrymore, Halle Berry, Anne Hathaway, Jamie Foxx, John Travolta, Heidi Klum, Hilary Swank, Eva Longoria, Portia de Rossi, Hilary Duff, John Mayer, Mike Myers, Halle Berry, Jim Carrrey, Elle Fanning, Amanda Bynes, Teri Hatcher, Justin Timberlake, Chris Matthews, Halle Berry, Jaden Smith, Chris Brown, JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE, MC Hammer, Heidi Klum, Vanessa Hudgens, Jessica Biel, Marisa Tomei, Hilary Swank, Madonna, Jonas Brothers, Slumdog Millionaire Cast, Emma Thompson and Ellen DeGeneres.

    Song: Rihanna – Don’t Stop The Music (Deejay Scream Remix)

  30. Doug 35


    National (51%) increases election winning lead over Labour/ Greens (38.5%) as Prime Minister John Key heads off for 10 days holiday in Hawaii and Labour’s increased spending on education fails to convince the electors

    Labour 23.5% ouch.

    • Tom Jackson 35.1

      Not really that surprising, although I would be surprised if Labour polls that low at the election itself.

      The same trend is occurring overseas. It looks like the UK Tories have a good chance of getting back in, and Abbott and Harper rule in their respective countries for the foreseeable future. Quite why this is, I have no idea. I guess “the people” are just stupid.

  31. Big bruv 36

    I see that David Cunliffe is really making his mark as Labour leader. All the way down to 23.5%.

    Cunliffe really is the best thing that ever happened to the National Party.

    • Tom Jackson 36.1

      I don’t think it’s his fault. It’s the same in other countries as well. The dumbs are taking over.

      • Jenny 36.1.1

        The people aren’t stupid the leaders of the Left are disappointingly weak. In the greatest crisis humanity has ever faced all round the globe under pressure from the Right, Left leaders are rolling over to vested interest and the fossil fuel lobby.

        We need Churchills and we are getting Chamberlains

        • Gosman

          What is your issue with The Greens and Mana exactly? How do they not reflect the views you support?

    • Rodel 36.2

      I see that John Key is really making his mark as National leader. All the way down to Cameron Slater.

      Key really is the best thing that ever happened to the Left.

  32. Te Reo Putake 37

    A Netherlands court has just ruled that the state has responsibility for allowing the Srebrenica massacre to happen. Massive implications for peacekeeping forces around the world.



  33. redfred 38

    When will Nationals madness end

    Uranium mining to occur in New Zealand – Nick Smith not bothered


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