Open Mike 16/07/2017

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1. Ant 1

   16 July 2017 at 6:58 am

   Stephen Hawking (and others) postulate that humanity’s future may depend on colonizing elsewhere in the galaxy. Conversations come alive around the difficulties of voyage duration, susceptibility to alien pathogens and a host of imaginative, invariably unpleasant extra-terrestrial challenges.

   But what if we found ‘planet perfect’ where the usual array of dangers and horrors associated with alien worlds was replaced by their polar opposites?

   In this simulation the commander of a team of 1000 who landed on planet X with a view to colonizing it summoned the group after they had been there a year comfortably housed in a system of well-ventilated limestone caves.

   “Good day. Here are the results of our 12 month’s research. Geologically its a remarkably stable planet. There are none of the violent plate wrenches that generate quakes and tsunamis. Fossil pollen confirms a temperate climate with regular periods of cooling and warming over the past 89 000 years. Rainfall is consistent with no evidence of drought or flooding. We are currently in a gently warming cycle likely to peak in around 2000 year’s time. Ecologically there is the full range of biota one would expect in such a supportive environment. Curiously there are no hominids, only a timid species of anthropoid ape. Cycling of nutrients and the richness of the oceans follows the pattern typical of widely interrelated food chains. In the absence of cold winters terrestrial productivity is sustained year round. The fruits, nuts, roots we gathered month after month can be taken as normal. There is no ‘lean season!’ In every sense this is a pristine planet. I await your feedback in a month’s time.”

   Scenario 1. 96 % of the colonists said “Bingo.” Mindful of past human folly on earth they settled down and lived happily ever after.

   Scenario 2. After processing the considered responses the commander read this summary to the listening crew.

   “You have asked ‘how will we conduct ourselves here’? “Our ancestors, centuries ago on earth felt compelled to ‘tame the land.’ What land would we set about ‘taming?’

   “The system of comfortable and well ventilated limestone caves we’ve been living in look out onto green slopes, flowing rivers and the radiant ocean. They suit us admirably. We could cut down trees and build conventional homes but no one seems inclined to.”

   “We could collect seeds and developed vegetable gardens, but what for? The entire planet is a garden. And with the rivers and sea teeming with fish there seems little point in keeping animals.”

   “As for owning land we asked ourselves: ‘what’s there to own?’ The idea of sectioning off parts of the landscape and calling it ’mine’ seems peculiarly distasteful, – like an act of thieving one part of the environment from another.”

   “How will we occupy ourselves? There are none of earth’s conventional motivators such as earning a living, returning a profit, vanquishing an enemy, surviving hard times.”

   It is apparent that as a race our point in consciousness does not allow a vision of the future here ; that our technology-oriented brains which empowered the space journey have outpaced the qualities of what it means to be creatively human; that we have a karmic debt to another planet far, far away. I guess the best summary of your responses came from someone who submitted the one-liner ‘on earth as it is in heaven.’”

   “I have given the orders to prepare the space ship; we return to earth within the next few weeks.”
   • Bill 1.1

     16 July 2017 at 12:17 pm

     Dunno so much about the ‘karmic debt’ bit. (That suggests a level of awareness we patently lack.)

     Maybe more a hankering to feed that addiction to pointless ways and habits would be the motivation to return?
   • joe90 1.2

     16 July 2017 at 12:28 pm

     A little attention to the passenger manifests and we should be all good.

     http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Golgafrinchan_Ark_Fleet_Ship_B
   • Incognito 1.3

     16 July 2017 at 1:07 pm

     “outpaced” or “forgotten”?

     This “space expedition” was flawed from the outset IMO given the orthodox power structure and decision making that is described in this simulation.

     Still, these sorts of thought experiments can be illuminating and stimulate the imagination; SF is an immensely popular genre for obvious reasons and often crosses over into philosophical realms.
2. Ed 2

   16 July 2017 at 9:46 am

   The New Zealand Herald running a free promotional for Israel Dagg’s new commercial venture.
   Kind of them…….

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11891061
   • Psych nurse 2.1

     16 July 2017 at 9:55 am

     Is it the Daggy day care.
     • Ed 2.1.1

       16 July 2017 at 10:33 am

       It’s what you do for your mates.

       ‘Hawke’s Bay rugby star Israel Dagg has been referred to police over tweets he made on election day.
       Dagg’s referral stemmed from a tweet he sent to his more than 83,000 Twitter followers saying: “Just voted for @johnkeypm and the National party all the best for tonight #blueallday #National”.’

       http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=11352978
       • alwyn 2.1.1.1

         16 July 2017 at 3:43 pm

         Wasn’t that the same sort of thing that Cunliffe did during a by-election?
         If a politician can mess it up I think it is a bit tough to expect better from someone who’s claim to fame is playing Rugby.
         • Gabby 2.1.1.1.1

           16 July 2017 at 6:06 pm

           I’d wonder why someone who’s claim to fame is playing Rugby was bothering, and who asked him to bother, and if that Weaselton type person should’ve known better.
   • joe90 2.2

     16 July 2017 at 10:33 am

     Izzy and Daisy you say……
3. Molly 3

   16 July 2017 at 9:50 am

   Not on the same theme with last week’s chirping frog, but uplifting anyway.

   Phat Bollard buskers from the UK:

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqwWUNZlTOA
4. BLiP 4

   16 July 2017 at 9:50 am

   This is part of a transcript which records the words uttered by the President of the United States on the evening of Wednesday 12 July 2017 . . .

   . . . There is a chance that we can do a solar wall. We have major companies looking at that. Look, there’s no better place for solar than the Mexico border — the southern border. And there is a very good chance we can do a solar wall, which would actually look good. But there is a very good chance we could do a solar wall.

   One of the things with the wall is you need transparency. You have to be able to see through it. In other words, if you can’t see through that wall — so it could be a steel wall with openings, but you have to have openings because you have to see what’s on the other side of the wall.

   And I’ll give you an example. As horrible as it sounds, when they throw the large sacks of drugs over, and if you have people on the other side of the wall, you don’t see them — they hit you on the head with 60 pounds of stuff? It’s over. As crazy as that sounds, you need transparency through that wall. But we have some incredible designs.

   But we are seriously looking at a solar wall. And remember this, it’s a 2,000 mile border, but you don’t need 2,000 miles of wall because you have a lot of natural barriers. You have mountains. You have some rivers that are violent and vicious. You have some areas that are so far away that you don’t really have people crossing. So you don’t need that. But you’ll need anywhere from 700 to 900 miles.

   Plus we have some wall that’s already up that we’re already fixing. You know, we’ve already started the wall because we’re fixing large portions of wall right now. We’re taking wall that was good but it’s in very bad shape, and we’re making it new. We’re fixing it. It’s already started. So we’ve actually, in the true sense — you know, there’s no reason to take it down or ***. So in a true sense, we’ve already started the wall . . .

   . . . I know, I know. You should see the rest of it.

   http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/13/politics/trump-transcript-air-force-one/index.html
   • The decrypter 4.1

     16 July 2017 at 9:58 am

     Sounds like Nick Smith.
     • Bill 4.1.1

       16 July 2017 at 12:22 pm

       Nah. Nick Smith could never express that almost endearing level of madness. It kinda reads like some young stoner on a roll 🙂
     • Peroxide Blonde 4.1.2

       16 July 2017 at 2:15 pm

       Nick Smith would presents the wall as part of National’s “Blue/Green” policy.
       Jenny Shipley would be competing with Judith Collins to get Chinese construction companies involved.
       Wellington law firms would be providing expensive advice to the government, the Chinese and anyone with a cheque book.
   • Andrea 4.2

     16 July 2017 at 7:36 pm

     Just imagine HAVING to be there listening to this drivel. The guys in the military, security, the cleaners. Anyone who has to take it on the eardrums because there’s no walking away.

     Wonders: was that why they had that round table love-in at the White House? So it was simply nauseating instead of listening to the jaffas run?
5. Carolyn_nth 5

   16 July 2017 at 10:08 am

   This is what NOT pulling up the ladder after you, looks like:

   Metiria Turei on her new social security policy, shaped by her childhood experiences of poverty, struggle and discrimination.

   “Dad was a labourer, he left school at 15. He went to Hato Paora but spent a lot of time working on the farm there, rather than studying.

   “My Mum was living independent at 14 as well.” Turei said.

   “We were broke, so my parents had periods where they were living in a car, where they were living in caravans, where they were living in people’s houses. So we spent a lot of time kind of moving around a bit too – both for work and housing.”
   …
   The experiences of Turei’s family pushed her into politics and Sunday’s policy announcement is promised to be “bold” and perhaps even controversial.

   “It will be families focused, and it will be about treating people with dignity,” Turei said.

   Punishing people “for being poor” was something she said still happened today, and would be in her sights.
   …
   Some form of universal child payment could also form part of the Green policy.
   …
   Turei said her own policy, will set some clear stakes in the ground, while laying out a timeline for further reform down the track.

   “It seems to me, totally irresponsible to not do what we can to make people’s lives better.”
   • weka 5.1

     16 July 2017 at 3:44 pm

     Thanks for that. You probably saw I used it in the post, it was great to have that bit pulled out and quoted.
6. Sanctuary 6

   16 July 2017 at 10:56 am

   Chris Meale, director of the ultra vital CRL in Auckland, comes across in this article as a flippant moron with no idea about PT.

   https://thespinoff.co.nz/auckland/15-07-2017/the-big-dig-promises-and-problems-with-aucklands-city-rail-link/
7. weka 7

   16 July 2017 at 11:38 am

   Bit of Sunday fun,

   http://www.pushtrumpoffacliffagain.com

   The fourth one was my favourite.
   • mary_a 7.1

     16 July 2017 at 8:34 pm

     Hee hee … love ’em all Weka 🙂 If only, if only. Thanks for sharing.
8. AsleepWhileWalking 8

   16 July 2017 at 12:52 pm

   Family living in bus making doco about people living in cars

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/94603040/families-in-cars-shock-travelling-bus-family
9. North 9

   16 July 2017 at 12:56 pm

   Interesting re TPP at about 8.15 or so.
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueKx3_CCPdQ20.
10. garibaldi 10

    16 July 2017 at 1:56 pm

    Congratulations to the Greens for their Welfare policy. This is an excellent example of social justice, which is core Green territory.
    Hopefully it will shut the trolls up about their bullshit dream of a Green/ Nat accommodation. I suggest their next wet dream could be a Nat/Labour coalition!
11. rhinocrates 11

    16 July 2017 at 1:59 pm

    From the Grauniad Long Read. Signs of hope if mainstream economists are turning away from globalisation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/14/globalisation-the-rise-and-fall-of-an-idea-that-swept-the-world

    It’s not just a populist backlash – many economists who once swore by free trade have changed their minds, too. How had they got it so wrong?…

    “The issue is that the people are rightly not trusting the centrists who are now promising compensation,” Rodrik said. “One reason that Hillary Clinton didn’t get any traction with those people is that she didn’t have any credibility.”

    Note for Labour: credibility. Credibility comes not from claims, but from record.
12. Peroxide Blonde 12

    16 July 2017 at 2:04 pm

    Casual racism.

    I’ve had two interactions this week with English people living in NZ who support Brexit because of all the migrants that were “let into our country”.
    (I can’t help asking people about UK’s Brexit: FU of the century and I lived there for best part of a decade.)
    When I point out they themselves are migrants in NZ one looked confused/bewildered and, in the other instance, they responded that English people in NZ are not on the dole whereas migrants in the UK are and are not assimilating into English society.
    Brexit is widely seen as an impending economic disaster. The possibility of it being reversed is being talked up. I hope for the sake of many that is is reversed.

    However reversing Brexit will not undue to racist malaise that led so many to vote Leave. Leaving aside the lies and incompetent campaigning from both sides, leave aside that anti-austerity and urban decay issues, there is still a deeply rooted mindset that rejects foreigners living in their country. The mind numbing aspect of this is that English people who are migrants themselves don’t have empathy with other migrants.

    I don’t get it.
13. Fustercluck 13

    16 July 2017 at 5:10 pm

    Just gonna leave this here:

    https://thsresearch.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/ef-gast-data-research-report-062717.pdf
    • McFlock 13.1

      16 July 2017 at 7:47 pm

      A brief glimpse suggests that it’s suggesting that global warming might not be a thing.
14. Anne 14

    16 July 2017 at 6:08 pm

    Fustercluck of pseudo science from the 3% of the world’s pseudo scientists who live in an ideological and/or religious dream world and feel threatened by reality. That’s the problem with all deniers… they fear reality because it upsets their little cocoon of beliefs.

    Note there’s not one woman on that list and I’ll bet they’re all white and aging and on the cusp of senility.
    • joe90 14.1

      16 July 2017 at 6:25 pm

      Probably pal reviewed, too.

      https://www.skepticalscience.com/pal-review.htm

      http://blog.hotwhopper.com/2013/12/list-of-scientists-respected-in-their.html
      • Anne 14.1.1

        16 July 2017 at 6:47 pm

        I note that our very own CC denier, Chris de Freitas has recently died. While not wishing to speak ill of the dead, it is at least one less denier to contend with in the ever increasing climate apocalypse we are racing towards in the not too distant future.
15. Andrea 15

    16 July 2017 at 7:43 pm

    If we cut immigration then our happy little economy will chug to a halt. We just don’t have the trained people to take up the fabulous jobs on offer.

    So they say.

    We’ve been listening to this for longer than I’ve been alive (according to the oldies).

    Yet we’re flogging education to overseas buyers?

    Now. Who has their hands up to resolve this issue once and forever? In a polite and altruistic way, for preference.
    • Draco T Bastard 15.1

      16 July 2017 at 8:09 pm

      We just don’t have the trained people to take up the fabulous jobs on offer.
      We have the trained people. What we don’t have is businesses willing to hire them.
      • Loop 15.1.1

        19 July 2017 at 2:36 pm

        “What we don’t have is businesses willing to hire them.’
        In my little microcosm it appears the employers are willing to hire our highly trained people, just not for a fair wage/salary. I did wonder once the free trade agreement was signed how long it would take before EnZed employers started to pay rates more in line with the 3rd world countries we are trading with and our rights as employees are reduced. Here we are.
        Example: Son in law out of uni was offered 54K after initial interview in Orkland. I thought “wow”. After 2 subsequent interviews he took up a position for 42K. Then I thought WTF?
        After a year and a lot of long hours and a few reviews he took his family to Oz. Starting on 74K. After a year he interviewed for a new position. The salary was 93-104K. As it transpired the latter was what he was starting on. The sharing of wealth in Oz is less of an issue there than here.
16. marty mars 16

    16 July 2017 at 8:53 pm

    good one andrew

    “Listen, Winston is a very colourful character in New Zealand politics and he’s got some principles too.

    “But he is a blowhard and this is blowhard politics.

    “In the end this election isn’t going to be fought on the basis of swinging dicks it is going to be fought on the basis of what party has demonstrated that they are listening to the real concerns of New Zealanders.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11891404

    apart from the unfortunate blowhard being mashed with swinging dicks not a bad retort to winnie. He won’t like it – “You are notta respecting me!”.
    • weka 16.1

      16 July 2017 at 9:13 pm

      Wow.
    • Anne 16.2

      16 July 2017 at 9:27 pm

      Now that’s the Andrew Little I want to see.

      Well I never… that poll Newshub and it’s prima political donkey, Patrick Gower were rabbiting on about was NOT commissioned by Labour. Wonder how the questions were framed and who commissioned them eh?

      And boy isn’t it interesting that the media is concentrating on a “private poll” commissioned by “nobody knows” and is ignoring a public poll which has produced a significant swing to both Labour and the Greens with NZ1st back on 8%.
17. Ed 17

    16 July 2017 at 9:16 pm

    Sara Matthews’s comments sound like those of a National or ACT troll, rather than who she portrays herself to be.

    Is she Ian or BM or James?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • Ian 17.1

      16 July 2017 at 9:35 pm

      I spent 3 months in hospital and 11 years on daily penicillin as a consequence of rheumatic fever .I have paid my dues to the State many times over .I can’t stand bludgers. Turei is an absolute disgrace.
      • Ed 17.1.1

        16 July 2017 at 9:37 pm

        Hi Sara
      • Ed 17.1.2

        16 July 2017 at 9:38 pm

        Or is it James?
        I get confused by your many personalities.
      • Ed 17.1.3

        16 July 2017 at 9:38 pm

        On reflection, it’s BM.
    • chris73 17.2

      16 July 2017 at 9:48 pm

      What am I, chopped liver? Wheres my mention?
      • weka 17.2.1

        16 July 2017 at 9:56 pm

        lol
      • fender 17.2.2

        16 July 2017 at 10:04 pm

        You’re well remembered as the gun loving one with the Judith Collins infatuation 😀

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