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Open mike 16/08/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, August 16th, 2014 - 82 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

82 comments on “Open mike 16/08/2014”

  1. Saarbo 1

    With the nasty stuff swirling around the National Party, Labour has a leader who is probably the most honest guy in parliament…good timing, now he/we need to let the rest of New Zealand know.
    A good article in the NZ Herald. This accords to the David Cunliffe I worked with for a short time in the 90’s.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11309592

    • Tracey 1.1

      more honest that turei, I think you jest.

      I note collins has admitted giving slater the public servants name. How is that not a sacking offence Mr Key

      • Roflcopter 1.1.1

        Because the information was already in the public domain, how many times to you need to be told?

        It was the basis of the Privacy Commission investigation at the time, which verified this.

        • Te Reo Putake 1.1.1.1

          Why is a minister doing this? Shouldn’t she be concentrating on doing her job?

        • Tracey 1.1.1.2

          and yet super journo slater needed collins to supply it? This is what we pay her for is it, to do a bloggers research for him?

          And when Slater told her he was expecting leaked video evidence from the police, what did our soon to be minister of police and justice say…

          Still as long as she didnt sign a painting for charity she didnt paint, right laughing boy?

        • ianmac 1.1.1.3

          It was in the public domain because Collins passed it on. And the public servant had absolutely nothing to do with the leak. He says the first that anyone even hinted at it was the day that Collins/Slater published his name and the denigration that followed.
          Give up Roflcopter!

        • lurgee 1.1.1.4

          Because the information was already in the public domain, how many times to you need to be told?

          Can this be verified, please? I haven’t noticed Collins or Slater claiming it as a defence.

        • Foreign Waka 1.1.1.5

          You seem to miss the point either way. It is the fact that Mrs Collins is passing the name of public servant to Mr Slater and thus giving prudence to what followed is in fact akin to Gestapo behavior. No matter how this is seen, a Minister of Justice no less should be squeaky clean. Freedom is not lost in a full swoop, but in incremental steps. Like the boiling frog story…

          • lurgee 1.1.1.5.1

            The point is it is 10000% worse if his name was not in the public domain. If it was, and Collins was just Slater of it that would be nasty, but she will probably survive as a minister.

            If she was identifying an individual already named as needing some ‘special loving’ from Slater, that’s a lot worse, and she will probably be sacked.

            And if his name wasn’t in the public domain as a possible leaker, then it is truly appalling and she should not just be sacked but drummed out out parliament, and mabe (I may be thinking whistfully, here) jailed.

            I want to know just what degree of bad it is.

            • lprent 1.1.1.5.1.1

              His name wasn’t being suggested in public until Slater asserted it in a post.

              The reason I remember it was that I looked at it when Slaters post came out and searched for corroboration. Authors here were making a big thing about Bill English’s rather excessive household claims. So when Pleasants name came up, I looked for sources other than Slater – who is pretty well known for being a liar and making stuff up.

              There wasn’t anything visible on the net from a more credible source. So I guessed that it was just bullshit and I started to censor the trolls from using his name as it was defamatory.

      • Eddie 1.1.2

        What i’m enjoying is Labour and the Lefties all jumping up and down waving their Jockies in the air and creating a Big song and dance
        Thats like the All Blacks stopping a game to rave to the Reef about someone on the other side not playing Fair
        Once again Labour has dropped the ball and lost their focus on the Game I’m not sure if they realize there is an Election coming up the tracks at a great rate of knots
        And the Spectators Just want the game to continue without all the Bullshit and Drama
        Imagine if Labour had of said we are better than this bullshit and focused on the real issues just like the All Blacks would do I don’t know if the person who hacked Cam’s computer is a Staunched Labour ally but me thinks it is not gonna do a hell of a lot for Labour and the other lefties Just saying

      • Eddie 1.1.3

        he was a Public servant the Information was NOT secret you could google his name

        • Foreign Waka 1.1.3.1

          Eddi, you need to understand that at least 2 laws were broken, not to mention that betrayal of the office:

          1/ the law of privacy
          2/ the employment law that protects employees from such behaviors

          Now that the Justice Minister has done this has effectively signaled to NZ and the world (don’t underestimate this) that NZ has moved to a fascist type of “democracy”. Europe has some good examples of that where people also said thing like you do and it ended up in tears. Lets not forget what history has taught us.

    • Chris 1.2

      Sure, but wish he wouldn’t say silly things like demanding an apology from Key. Surely all this stuff’s way beyond a stupid apology.

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10391270/Labour-points-finger-at-National-over-website

  2. Raa 2

    Vale Jack Shallcrass.

    Farewell to a good man.

  3. Tigger 3

    Cactus Kate proving very quotable. “Those Chinese can be very vicious when they lose face … Chop chop for Nicky.”
    “Like a lot of the rest of the book that email was just private chatter and banter between various people on emails where absolutely nothing else happened as a consequence,”

    Nothing happened except put your sad, vile truths on display, CK. Racism doesn’t stop being disgusting just because it’s private.

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11309750

    • felix 3.1

      Also interesting that Cathy Odgers admits to writing as Cameron Slater on whaleoil.

      Jesus, does Cameron actually write anything there? Or does he just make the tea?

      • Tracey 3.1.1

        Joyce said on tv3 yesterday that no one tells slater what to do. Actually its looking like the reverse is true. If nothing else this is a very sad picture of a man pretending to be something he quite clearly is not. It seems he makes up alot of things about his own power that arent true. The alternative is they are true, but the nats are working hard to deny that.

  4. human zoo? no not the gnats and their mates.

    When the Waikato Times visited the cage, between the courthouse and Waitomo District Council in Queen St, there appeared to be no presence or monitoring by police escort staff, unless it was to hand over papers to an accused and let them out.

    Retired defence lawyer Peter Williams QC called the practice “humiliating” and “absolutely barbaric”.

    “How the justice department can justify a holding pen is just unbelievable, it’s beyond imagination . . . just absolutely wrong,” the lawyer of 60 years experience said.

    “Whoever is responsible for it should be dealt some type of discipline and the thing should be dismantled and the proper remand rooms or accommodation put up to civilised standards.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10389919/Te-Kuitis-human-zoo

    yep we live in 2014 and still treat people like shit and then expect them to thank us.

    Roger Brooking, who has 15 years experience working in the justice arena, was gobsmacked.

    “It’s totally weird. I have never seen anything like that before. I had no idea there was a human zoo for offenders in Te Kuiti. I think it’s disgusting, quite frankly.”

    “This is something you would see in a third world country, or something out of the middle ages.”

    Barbaric. I agree with Roger.

    And why we dis third world countries is beyond me – look around ffs. Meanwhile the middle will wring their hands and tut tut over the stats – and then vote for the liarkey? Nah his time has run out, thank the Gods!!!

  5. fambo 5

    Why won’t John Key read the book? Because he doesn’t need to. He was there when it all happened.

  6. Man in a Barrel 6

    The world I woke up to this morning:

    1. The US/NATO squaring up to Russia for a shooting war over the Ukraine:
    2. Ebola squaring up to be the Black Death of the 21st Century:
    3. Fukushima gushing radio-active water into the North Pacific and squaring up to require the Chernobyl-like evacuation of a large chunk of one of the most densly populated places on Earth:
    4. ISIS and its great leap backwards into the Middle-Ages, of military danger only to its neighbours but already in control of some of the Iraqi oil-fields and its ideological fangs bared for its wrong-thinking co-religionists in Saudi Arabia and most of the rest of the world’s oil – so it seems the West will have to start a religious war against Islam to protect its petrol pumps:
    5. Europe going under financially for the third-time since 2008, the US floating – just – on an air-bed of bubbles while the 1% fiddle for all their worth, China imploding:
    6. Every report on Global Warming, the most insidious of all, saying it’s happening faster and to a larger extent than previously thought, from the collapse of the Antarctic Icesheet to methane leakage from Siberia and the Arctic, while politicians everywhere see the next election as far more important:
      7 Oh yes, next month I get to choose between various packs of self-important, ethically-challenged, myopic, self-seeking non-entities to strut and fret their hour upon the stage in the empty, badly lit, third-rate theatre that is New Zealand’s Parliament.

    Think I’ll just roll over and go back to sleep.

    • Lanthanide 6.1

      “Fukushima gushing radio-active water into the North Pacific and squaring up to require the Chernobyl-like evacuation of a large chunk of one of the most densly populated places on Earth:”

      Source, please.

      • Man in a Barrel 6.1.1

        Lanthanide – “Source, please.”

        One of the links featured in:

        http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/weve-opened-gates-hell.html

        Can’t remember which one. I don’t think evacuation has yet been announced as official Japanese policy but the situation is becoming so bad that it can’t be kept hidden for very much longer, at which point the choice will be between an officially organised (and probably already being planned) evacuation or Tokyo emptying itself anyway.

      • tricledrown 6.1.2

        It is true can’ t remember but 350 tonnes of heavy water a day leaking into the sea

  7. Ad 7

    Forget the Hagar book.

    Get people ready to vote.

  8. Karen 8

    Anyone know why the Roy Morgan poll is late? It would usually come up on their website on a Thursday, Friday at the latest, but it is still not there. Maybe they are waiting another week because of the Nicky Hager book.

    Or maybe it contradicts the Fairfax/ Ipsos so much there has been a decision to hold it back – would they do such a thing? They could then use the Hager book to justify any swing to the left- it won’t be read as a positive reaction to David Cunliffe and Labour policy?

    Or am I just getting paranoid?

  9. Skinny 9

    You would think the Electoral Comission would have had a real crack at this Rugby Union. Mates looking after mates, no surprise National party members within the Northland Rugby Union;

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11309746

    • Tiger Mountain 9.1

      It is how National operates particularly in rural areas. Networking with sports clubs, Lodges, SMEs, tradies, some schools, local cops, business associations, real estate, farmers and retirees to develop a “one way” culture.

      Clubs and schools need local business support to operate and it comes with strings, often tacit, but strings. People need work and contracts so there is economic pressure too. Don’t support John Key? Whaaadarrrryaaa mate! We are blue men around here!

      It is partly why and how electorates such as Northland and Whangarei continually vote tory MPs in against their material needs. And partly due to the Te Tai Tokerau Māori seat syphoning off votes that would redress that, and I am not arguing for collapsing the Māori seats.

      • Skinny 9.1.1

        yes quite correct. This blatant breech of the act should have been met with a fine and a stern warning.

        This sort of arogant carry on is off putting to people wanting a democratic society. The old boys network of political favours in both central & local government.

  10. joe90 11

    Love it.

    Jeremy Wells with his impression of Newstalk ZB host Mike Hosking with another “Like Mike” Hosking Rant. Today’s topic ‘Hosking In Wonderland’ as Jeremy/Mike rants about Nicky Hager’s book ‘Dirty Politics’

    • Rodel 11.1

      Thanks Joe90
      That was amazing! Sounds just like Hosking taking the mickey out of Hosking.

  11. Tracey 12

    Spoke with an Auckland panelbeater last week. SME currently paying $60,000 a month in all taxes, including GST?

    He made a number of comments about changes in behaviour by insurance companies toward his trade in recent months, in particular the IAG group of insurance companies.

    By way of background we need to understand the recent aquisitions by AIG! their increasing market share and how this might beinfluencing the bullying encountered by chaps like the panelbeater i spoke to

    ” The Commerce Commission has approved Insurance Australia Group’s takeover of rival Lumley General Insurance.

    In New Zealand IAG already owns NZI, AMI and State Insurance. In December it announced a A$1.845 billion deal to buy the underwriting businesses of Australia’s Wesfarmers, which includes Lumley in New Zealand.

     
     
    This deal increases IAG’s share of the overall New Zealand insurance market to about 50.5% from 41.5%, lifts its share of the home and contents and vehicle insurance market to 66% from 60%, and gives it 40% of New Zealand’s intermediated insurance market. In a December interview with interest.co.nz IAG’s New Zealand CEO Jacki Johnson said IAG would sell assets to gain Commerce Commission approval for the Lumley purchase if it had to, but sees itself as the natural owner of the assets.

    The Commerce Commission’s initial deadline for its decision was January 24. This was extended until March 28, then April 30 and finally today.

    “The Commission is satisfied that the proposed acquisition will not have, or would not be likely to have, the effect of substantially lessening competition, for personal and commercial insurance products,” Commerce Commission chairman Mark Berry said.” http://www.interest.co.nz
    R
    The panelbeaters story

    Ami, nzi and state have been squeezing the trade and their margins to claw back losses from the chchch earthquake.

    With a large market share AIG turned its attention to cars, a constant source of claims. My guy says that until recently he got about 52 bucks an hour for fixing a bumper. The insurance companies allocated one hour to the work.

    In the last few weeks they have increased the hourly rate to $59 per hour. BUT, they have reduced the time allocated to a bumper to 45 minutes. Effectively cutting the payout to panelbeaters for the same work to $45.

    The liability on the panelbeater for work performed stays the same. If the bumper falls off or otherwise suffers from a poor job, its the panelbeater who pays. Do they work quicker and risk shoddy work, or still spend an hour and work for a loss.

    My guy says he wont and cant reduce wages on his guys, so an insurance bumperjob now yields him a $5.75 surplus after wages and other costs.He also wont do sub standard work but knows some in the industry will to keep their margins.

    He is expecting further actions to reduce and this practice applies across all aspects not just bumpers.

    ” Opponents of the deal including rival insurers, the Insurance Brokers Association of New Zealand, the Collision Repair Association, the Motor Trade Association, the Bus and Coach Association, and the Rental Vehicle Association told the Commerce Commission of their concerns in submissions. Suncorp, which owns Vero and 68% of AA Insurance, warned IAG buying Lumley would represent “a tipping point” towards an anti-competitive structure in New Zealand’s insurance markets.

    Being allowed to swallow Lumley will give IAG control of insurance relationships with three of the big four banks in ASB, BNZ and Westpac. ANZ works with Vero and Tower.” http://www.interest.co.nz

    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      “The Commission is satisfied that the proposed acquisition will not have, or would not be likely to have, the effect of substantially lessening competition, for personal and commercial insurance products,” Commerce Commission chairman Mark Berry said.”

      hmmmm…

      This deal increases IAG’s share of the overall New Zealand insurance market to about 50.5% from 41.5%, lifts its share of the home and contents and vehicle insurance market to 66% from 60%, and gives it 40% of New Zealand’s intermediated insurance market.

      They’re right, it won’t change it that much – there isn’t any competition left.

  12. lurgee 13

    Because the information was already in the public domain, how many times to you need to be told?

    Can this be verified, please? I haven’t noticed Collins or Slater claiming it as a defence.

  13. Herodotus 14

    Mr Slater has frequently commented that he gets some of his info from a/few labour mp’s nothing has been mentioned regarding this claim to date, I don’t think that ms Collins is the source so who is skaters deep throat ?
    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/08/leaked-labours-plans-to-use-taxpayer-money-to-promote-policy/

  14. Lanthanide 15

    Also Lynn can you please fix the cookies problem? I have to keep typing out my name and email address all the time, and end up typoing it – hence why you’re getting my comments in moderation.

  15. Blue 16

    Interesting article on why Cameron Slater gets to keep his Canon Media Award:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11309752

    The NPA had not considered withdrawing Slater’s award, he said.

    “In the 40-year history of the awards, none has ever been withdrawn and it would be an extreme, highly unusual step.”

    It would only be justified if concrete evidence came forward showing illegal or highly unethical methods were used to obtain the story, he said.

    I would have thought the way Bevan Chuang was exploited was the very definition of highly unethical, but’s that’s just me. The Newspaper Publishers’ Association does not agree.

    • CnrJoe 16.1

      Well Blue I just sent Rick Neville of the Publishers assoc a request to recall of CANON MEDIA AWARD WINNER CAMERON SLATER’s Best Blogger Award.
      I can’t get enough of saying it, writing it.
      Canon Media Award for Best Blogger Cameron WhaleOilBeefHooked Slater.÷)

      • yeshe 16.1.1

        Calls/letters directly to Canon might be more effective than the Publishers’ Association — they have more to lose in terms of unhappy customers and are likely walking a delicate line just now. Just point out the words and language their product has now become associated with in the public mind .. shouldn’t take too many ! Send letters as high as possible in corporation … even Japan !!!

        And I just read this on Bomber’s site … calls to Canon could be very effective imho.

        http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/08/16/hagers-dirty-politics-response-to-canon-nz/

        • karol 16.1.1.1

          And Deborah Hill Cone, as the sole judge for that award, should also apologise.

        • CnrJoe 16.1.1.2

          righto

          • yeshe 16.1.1.2.1

            It is time to write again the name of the website … not sure who really gets it, but say the full name Whale Oil Beef Hooked with a faux Irish accent and you get ‘Well, I’ll be fucked’.

            I know the news room at one TV station had not understood itone day this week until , and I’m guessing here, but maybe Canon didn’t either.

            Let’s make them aware as loudly and quickly as possible. Surely, they didn’t intend for this language to be given their overt public approval ? And I’m sure head office in Japan will not be happy. Maybe we can send it Huffington Post and have them stir it up a little. Canon will have to acknowledge the ‘backfire’ !!!

            • yeshe 16.1.1.2.1.1

              darn, won’t let me edit … should have read ‘newsroom at one TV station had not understood it until one day this week, and I’m guessing Canon didn’t either”.

  16. weka 17

    “Pollster and blogger David Farrar said yesterday he believed documents were stolen from his offices by an employee.

    He intended to lay a complaint with police and said the breach of his privacy had him considering stepping back from politics.”

    We can but hope, but does that make Farrar the hypocrit of the day?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10389804/SIS-gave-blogger-first-dibs-on-papers-release-Hager

  17. weka 18

    Darren Watson’s banned Planet Key video now #8 on NZ Music Charts.

    “Not bad for a song banned from all airplay. We have big news to announce this coming Monday.”

  18. Chooky 19

    ‘Hager’s Dirty Politics – the TV political panels are ridiculous’

    By Martyn Bradbury / August 16, 2014

    “This isn’t good enough from our fourth estate at a time when we need the powerful to be held to account for their abuse of power.

    The total lack of depth and shallow talent pool of TV political panel shows in NZ is providing hideous coverage and insight into one of the most important political stories of the year….

    • One Anonymous Bloke 19.1

      That photo of Hooton and Hager: great body language. Hooton looks like he wants to eat Hager’s liver with a nice Chianti 🙂

  19. Harry Holland 21

    Reading my way through “Dirty Politics”. My summary so far is:
    Chapters 1-5: John Key’s National Party is clearly corrupt.
    Chapters 6-10: Slater and his mates are scumbags and so are some of our barons of industry.

    It looks like Chapter 11 is reconnecting with the corruption of John Key .

    If there are more revelations about Key’s involvement contained in the last few chapters (as seems likely) then this is a very ineffective way to structure the book IMHO. Chapters 6-10 lost the momentum of the narrative. Reading about what a scumbag Slater is was a bit boring and I suspect many readers and lazy journalists will not make it to chapter 11…

    • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1

      Why not read it all before the review? It isn’t like anyone is waiting for you to finish.

      • Harry Holland 21.1.1

        Finished now, and yeah what I wrote above still stands as a good summary.

        I am amazed how little of this is being pursued vigorously by MSM. I didn’t have a lot of respect for them before, but now, rock-bottom…

        • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1.1.1

          We’ll see. I’m hoping they’re going after the low-hanging fruit while preparing more substantial coverage of the more substantial (and criminal) allegations. The seriousness of the potential charges means they’ll be dining out on it for months if not years as it stands.

          • Harry Holland 21.1.1.1.1

            I hope you’re right. In the last hour it’s been playing on my mind that the real revelation of this book is contained in Hager’s “Afterword” where he explains at length that one of the key reasons these people can get away with all of this is because of the weakness of journalism in NZ. Without intelligent and fearless journalists we are a very weak democracy.
            I read somewhere that a majority of enrollees in a NZ journalism course had declared that their goal was to become TV presenters – is it any wonder our democracy is in serious trouble…

            • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1.1.1.1.1

              I’m not so sure about that last sentiment. I think Churchill was right: democracy is the worst possible system apart from all the other ones. It involves people like Nicki Hager investigating people like John Key, because the kind of people people like John Key appeal to, keep on being born.

  20. KJS0ne 22

    One of the more surprising revelations in the Dirty Politics saga so far for me has been some details that surround the former National MP Katherine Rich, of whom I had always held in some esteem as a more moderate MP within the conservative machine, and certainly someone who seemed to have a semblance of a moral compass.

    There is evidence in the book that Rich (who currently works as the CEO of the Food and Grocery Council.) supplied material for attacks that WO blogger Cameron Slater made against anti-obesity campaigner Tony Falkenstein.

    Now I’m just reading this from here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11309420 I haven’t had an opportunity to read the book yet, I have my copy ordered, so it will be interesting to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

    Article goes on to say that Slater was essentially a hired gun for any company that wished to attack a certain figure, receiving thousands of dollars a month from business clients to do so. National’s attack dog is looking more and more disgusting by the minute. and the complicity appears to run much deeper than just Judith Collins and Jason Ede.

    • rhinocrates 22.1

      Article goes on to say that Slater was essentially a hired gun for any company that wished to attack a certain figure, receiving thousands of dollars a month from business clients to do so.

      I wonder what the IRD would think of that? Is it all declared?

      • Draco T Bastard 22.1.1

        I’m wondering what his insurance company thinks of that considering that he spent so long blogging while unable to work.

    • Tracey 22.2

      surely KR must now be removed from the health board the govt appointed her ?

    • yeshe 22.3

      Katherine Rich should have resigned from all her posts instantly. She must be forced to as she is supposedly a safeguard for the good population of Kiwiland. The book is shocking at so many levels .. tobacco, alcohol, Coke and Pepsi … all dark arts and arch manipulators .. and I’m certain there is more to come.

      The book is on Amazon is you wish to hasten the horror for yourself.

  21. Belladonna 24

    I also listened to David Slack’s show last night. I like David and it is a rarity to listen to leftwing talkback. KDC mentioned 2 extra special guests on 15th January which makes it all the more intriguing, that is as well as Glen Greenwald.

  22. joe90 25

    Buggered if I know who but someone asked about this earlier in the week.

    Key said he regularly called Slater, who broke the story of the Len Brown affair, “to see what he’s got on his site and mind”.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9723130/Looks-like-Slater-is-Keys-Peters-source

  23. Chooky 26

    ‘Hager’s Dirty Politics – Death threats or hit jobs?’

    By Martyn Bradbury / August 16, 2014

    “Let’s be clear, no one deserves death threats, but Slater is now outed as the Wolf that cries boy, and all attempts to justify his actions by pointing to the angry reaction that has occurred because he has been outed simply don’t wash and quite frankly are open to a level of scepticism…

    Comment from one commenter:

    “Hooton, a regular RNZ panelist, also (according to the book) passed on Hagers home address to Cactus Kate. Despicable!”

    My comment:

    Hooton should be struck off Radio New Zealand’s ‘nine-to-noon’ …Hooton is not fit to be a political commentator…in fact a complaint should be laid with the police

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    18 hours ago
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