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Open mike 16/09/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:46 am, September 16th, 2013 - 149 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

149 comments on “Open mike 16/09/2013 ”

  1. cunnliffe just kicked arse on tvone breakfast..

    ..woo-hoo..!..

    ..doing commentaries on questiontime @parliamenrt just got a lot more interesting..

    ..phillip ure..

    • ..and then key..reeking of/from ‘yesterdays’ man’ cologne..

      ..phillip ure..

      • bad12 1.1.1

        Lolz, what ever happened to good ole smile’n’wave, laugh, remember the smiling and joking pop-star Prime Minister we used to have???,

        He looks worried with a capital W, my pick at what has got the Slippery one looking depressed besides the weekend hangover is that Nationals own internal polling has shown the Roy Morgan to be close to on the money as far as Nationals sinking ship goes,

        Washed out is a good description of the Prime Ministers TV1 appearance this morning, and now for a brief message from our sponsors,

        Judith Collins your time has come, you have one chance of being the Prime Minister and that chance is NOW while Slippery is off to see the Queen,

        Count your numbers and sharpen the knives Judith, in the time honored Tory tradition shaft the little shyster for the top prize while He has His back turned,

        You only get one chance Judith, grasp that chance to be PM now or spend the 9 years after 2014 as leader of the opposition…

        • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1

          Lol!

          • Jim Nald 1.1.1.1.1

            Hah. More than a bit of truth in that. What a sight to behold – Collins doing a Shipley (on Bolger)!

            Smile and wave goodbye to the Beehive, Mr Key.

            • North 1.1.1.1.1.1

              Very solid alpha-male socially conservative Samoan mate of mine…..always remarking how Mr Key sounds like a “pituva kirl”. Bye bye to the Beehive Queen-B.

        • vto 1.1.1.2

          Yes it was interesting to watch. Key tried tricks like…. calling your opponent what you get labelled yourself (snake oil salesman) …. outright lies (living wage policy cost) …. painting labour as far left (of course it would appear that way when you are a 1%er) ….

          But Key had nothing new. Just the same old same old. Tired. Boring. So boring in fact that I didn’t even get past halfway watching it.

          Boring John Key.

        • risildowgtn 1.1.1.3

          Too funny but awesome coz u be correct 😛

  2. Ennui 2

    Reflecting on the result of the leadership election:the final tally pointed out all that has been wrong with Labour for years. Most glaring was the total disconnect between the majority of Caucus and the wishes of the membership. How more than half of Caucus voted against the members choice reflects the gulf between these members and the people they ostensibly represent.

    Personally I don’t see how these people can show the loyalty required. As the Bard said “a house divided cannot rule”. I very much doubt that many of them will self select out of this in the time honoured way.

    • karol 2.1

      On the caucus vote, seems many switched sides at the eleventh hour. As Tracy Watkins and Andrea Vance put it:

      The caucus vote was closer than expected, however, suggesting some MPs either switched sides late, or kept a foot in both camps until the very end.

      Those (formerly?) ABC MPs hoping most of their political careers are still ahead of them, will toe the Cunliffe line, and hope for a spokesperson role.

      • Ennui 2.1.1

        A wise person is aware that leopards don’t change their spots: might just be a case of keeping your friends close, and your enemies closer……..

        • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1

          I suspect that some MPs used their Jones vote as a way to vote for Cunliffe, while hedging against the Opprobrium of a possible ABC win. That’s a clue as to how nasty things have been.

          • Anne 2.1.1.1.1

            I wonder how many of those on the periphery of the ABC club were actually there by coercion rather than a desire to be there. At the New Lynn victory party last night I was surprised how many closet Cunliffe supporters there appears to have been among the membership. Members who were fearful of retaliation in their electorates if they revealed their real preference. I suspect something similar may have gone on inside caucus. It would have only included a handful, but enough to swing the caucus away from a Cunliffe caucus thrashing.

            • Enough is Enough 2.1.1.1.1.1

              Closet Cunliffe Supporters

              Or rats jumping across to the winning side now that the ABC ship has sunk.

              We need a clean out of the rats.

              • Anne

                rats jumping across to the winning side now that the ABC ship has sunk.

                I don’t believe so EisE. The evidence was anecdotal and came from Cunliffe’s active supporters. I think it was a case of people wanting to keep the peace in their respective branches/LECs and not wanting to expose themselves to possible verbal abuse.

                We know it did happen to some people.

        • Greywarbler 2.1.1.2

          Ennui That reminded me of wise words uttered in Rinse the Blood off my Toga about the danger of allowing enemies too close.
          http://members.tripod.com/~Josh_Net/rinsethebloodoffmytoga.html
          Julius Caesar murdered! (aside) I couldn’t believe my ears! Big Julie was dead!
          BRUT
          Yes, it happened just a few hours ago. Happened in the Senate; he was stabbed.
          FLAV
          Stabbed? In the Senate?
          BRUT
          No, not in the Senate. They got him right in the rotunda.
          FLAV
          That’s a fatal spot. I had a splinter there once. Those marble splinters, you know.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR_5h8CzRcI‎

      • Pascal's bookie 2.1.2

        suggesting some MPs either switched sides late, or kept a foot in both camps until the very end.

        ‘or that our source was bullshitting us about the actual state of play’. But they can’t say that, as anon sources never lie, so you need to find an explanation for any apparent contradictions.

  3. Boadicea 3

    Karol

    “Those (formerly?) ABC MPs hoping most of their political careers are still ahead of them, will toe the Cunliffe line, and hope for a spokesperson role.”

    And those with their political careers behind them? How should they behave now?

    • karol 3.1

      Polish up their CVs. Their options are limited.

      • bad12 3.1.1

        i think far too much is being made of the ABC tribe, given that Cunliffe is likely to openly support Grant Robertson as His deputy and most of the others including Phill Goff and Annette King will get to keep their shadow roles,

        The only problem i see for David Cunliffe is if the polls refuse to move and i somehow doubt given Cunliffe’s popularity that that will occur…

        • The Al1en 3.1.1.1

          DC would be showing political ineptitude if he were to leave a bulk of his caucus ABC for long.
          These people are shi*s with proven track records of disloyalty, and are now clearly and openly at odds with the vast majority of members and affiliates.
          If they won’t do the decent thing and resign, which I’m sure they won’t, hack away, David.

          Strong leadership starts with a strong leader.
          Buttkiss to lose the whip is the fist signal we’ve got what we wanted and Labour have what it’s needed.

          • bad12 3.1.1.1.1

            i think you are going to be very disappointed then, Goff, King, Hipkiss, will all end up with relatively senior position which they have now,

            Mallard will still be ‘in waiting’ to take on the Speakers role after November 2014, and,David Parker is still likely to be Finance Spokesperson…

            • The Al1en 3.1.1.1.1.1

              We’ll see. In the long con, I’m seldom wrong. 😉

              But no offence, I’m not surprised you don’t get it.
              Astute doesn’t seem to be your main selling point. 😆

              • bad12

                Work it out, if David Cunliffes initial Caucus vote was 11, is He going to have only 11 spokespeople in total,

                He has no choice but to keep any number of those you see as the ABCer’s in senior positions, and that also includes that abysmal little dick Hipkins,

                Your dream of a major blood-letting is as futile as the mainstream medias identical dream…

                • karol

                  But it looks like Hipkins won’t be in the whip role – RNZ interview this morning – Cunliffe praises Hipkin & says they have made up – but Hipkins doesn’t expect to keep the whip role.

                  • bad12

                    Aha, the same message i got off of TV1 this morning, minus the ‘Hipkins does not expect to keep the whips role’,

                    Even, putting aside Hipkin’s known offences there’s something i just don’t like about that particular individual,

                    Him and Clare Curran occupying a back bench together seems a sensible outcome as reward for their recent political contributions,

                    The biggest worry for Cunliffe if He is not to take the Finance role is that come 2014 the Caucus do a Lange V Douglas on Him…

                • Clement Pinto

                  I really do wish that Cunliffe would send Hipkins and Curran to the last two back seats on the backbench for at least a year to teach them a lesson they won’t forget easily for having been such stupid fools.

                  But on the other hand, it might be better all round if Cunliffe shows magnanimity and lets everyone start with a fresh clean slate.

                  • Pasupial

                    From this mornings ODT:

                    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/273275/cunliffe-quick-demand-loyalty

                    “Ms Curran said she had been loyal to the two previous Labour leaders, Phil Goff and David Shearer, and she would be as loyal to Mr Cunliffe.”

                    If there had to be a single scape-goat then she would be my pick; I’m sure that Cunliffe could find some-one to manage the IT side competently in her place.

                    “With few female MPs in the South Island, the chances are high an Auckland woman MP will be deputy leader, which may alienate some of the southern supporters. No South Island women MPs supported Mr Cunliffe. ”

                    My (total lack of) vote (seeing as it’s decided by caucus) would still go to; Louisa Wall for Deputy Labour Leader!

                    • geoff

                      The biggest problem is duckie because he cant keep his mouth shut.

                    • Jim Nald

                      If the ABCs have lots of time on their hands after the leadership result and don’t wish to disband, perhaps they can reconsider their job description and take up the new task of Anyone But Curran ?

                    • Clement Pinto

                      Wall to be Deputy and potentially deputy PM or acting PM? That would be a very BIG mistake.

                      MY PICK for a very good and formidable vote winning combination:

                      Leader :
                      CUNLIFFE [Will need to deliver what he has been saying]

                      Co-Deputy leaders:
                      ROBERTSON [Will need to be absolutely loyal and unite everyone]
                      ARDEN [Well liked young female who’ll need to gain experience on the job]

                    • karol

                      Ardern was one of the first ABCs to express support for new Leader Cunliffe. I suspect she’s positioning herself as a potential deputy nominee.

                    • Jim Nald

                      Not sure what people see in Ardern who is not yet ready for such a key role.

                      If a female deputy is being considered, there are many other candidates even from the ABCs who would be more appropriate, e.g., someone who has had experience of a ministerial portfolio, someone who had a high ranking party position, etc.

                      Loath am I to make reference to the Liberals across the Ditch but a Julie Bishop-like deputy should be considered.

                    • karol

                      Jim, I’m not saying Ardern would be my choice (I’d prefer Louisa Wall), but Ardern may be the caucus choice.

                    • Jim Nald

                      With you, karol.

                      I did not, and do not, think you are saying Ardern would be your choice.

                      I personally think Wall would be excellent.

                      Caucus needs to look beyond the factions and to the functions required from the deputy to be a really good opposition team in the house. I don’t think Ardern has what it takes (yet … and can be in training for that role in the future) and there are others more ready in terms of experience and/or ability.

                    • Clement Pinto

                      oops, spelling error in my post re Co Depty Leaders :

                      Should read : Ardern

                • neoleftie

                  @bad12 how many abc member do you think there are? 5 or 18?
                  The deputy will be selected by caucus on Tuesday but endorsed by the leader and cabal as well as party president as well, time a changing the next deputy will be neutral to all factions but have the interest of the party at heart, most probably a woman but not Arden …list mp not A heavy hitter as of yet.
                  Firstly the unifiers I.e cunliffe and co will get most if not all caucus on board with one sole objective…victory in 2014.
                  The real rouge elements will be demoted silenced or be retire but there is a place for experience if they toe the new found party line and the platform of cunliffe that found resonance with the unions and members and also no doubt with the wider public.
                  Position of whip will be someone loyal to cunliffe.
                  Robertson jones will be in top 8 or so but who gets finance….cunliffe himself I think.
                  With an organised wide spread team of spokespersons, a solid deputy and whip cunliffe can do both…just, as their is no one else with the vision drive on the left to take us forward.
                  King, goff are all heavy hitters so must stay and contribute.
                  I think going forward cunliffe and the party will demand total loyalty, support and contribution to the party vision and mission or else.
                  The party has spoken loudly clearly and now it demands unity unity unity.
                  PS every mp new or old present or on the coming list will need to front up do their bit and provide support, get the vote out and win…or piss off as the people need badly salvation from this failed neoliberal post capitalistic ideology that is enslving us for the real benefit of just a small few.

                  • bad12

                    Neo, i don’t care enough to count, the ABC’s has been way over-done in my opinion,

                    David Cunliffe on TV1 this morning indicated that He probably won’t be handling the finance portfolio…

                  • North

                    Yeah neo……looking back, the dance those up-themselves idiots engaged is bloody infuriating really. Just screams of arrrogance. Thank God it’s over for them and the callow little prick narcissist who calls himself PM. Utterly deservedly Hipkins probably isn’t sleeping too well. His behaviour was that of a bully and a coward. Sounds like he might have grown some balls and fallen on his sword now though.

                • The Al1en

                  “He has no choice but to keep any number of those you see as the ABCer’s in senior positions, and that also includes that abysmal little dick Hipkins”

                  The clue was in the bit “if he were to leave a bulk of his caucus ABC for long”.
                  No doubt some of the old guard will keep some portfolios, but if David has his eye on the prize, he’ll know he can’t trust ABC at all.
                  It will be interesting to see how many electorate mps will not be standing in 2014, and how high up new, friendlier talent will be on the list.

                  Personally, I’d go instant bloodbath, but then there’s more fun watching someone swirm, waiting for the hatchet to fall. I reckon DC has earned the privilege either way.
                  I just hope he remembers to smile. 🙂

                  • bad12

                    Yawn your as boring as you are thick…

                    • The Al1en

                      I was just going to post ‘Reread comment re astute’.

                      But given the error in your post, and the nature of your barb, in the end, I settled on adding an irony lol 😆

                    • bad12

                      If you are referring to an error in my comment as the reference to Hipkins you should have read the time it was posted,

                      It’s relevance was via the comments made by David Cunliffe on him and Hipkins having settled matters with no hint from Cunliffe that Hipkins would step down,

                      Covered i might add by a following couple of comments from Karol and myself which shows how such an ‘error’ was made,

                      What your latest comment really says, is ”you have nothing to say that isn’t either boring or doesn’t make you look thick so you will simply resort to repetition, lol, and comical icons…

                    • The Al1en

                      “If you are referring to an error in my comment as the reference to Hipkins you should have read the time it was posted”

                      No, that wasn’t it. 😉

                      “What your latest comment really says, is ”you have nothing to say that isn’t either boring or doesn’t make you look thick so you will simply resort to repetition, lol, and comical icons”

                      Chill out and settle down bruv. I’m not the enemy. :halo:
                      Anyway, Shhh, Futurama is on.

              • Rogue Trooper

                would that be ‘Air-con’, or the royal oui, Ja board 😉

            • Boadicea 3.1.1.1.1.2

              Mallard is now an emasculated fuckwit. Cunliffe needs to do nothing with him.

              • Greywarbler

                I have got the idea that Mallard rides bikes in tight lycra pants and understand that is deleterious to aspects of manhood, which might result in being emasculated. That causes me to be prejudiced against the practice of pollies wearing lycra. But I wonder, is this okay or should I be more accepting of fashionable tourniquets whether or not resulting in gender dysfunction?

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Speaking of pollies and gender dysfunction, I’m told that when Michael Laws was mayor he once turned up to a Whanganui council meeting in lycra cycle togs and got laughed out of the chamber.

                  Not a pretty mental image, I know. Sorry if I made anyone vomit.

          • Pete 3.1.1.1.2

            Knowing when to be concilliatory and letting your opponents save face and knowing when to be ruthless with them is a sign of good leadership. For example, Shearer’s banishment of Cunliffe to the back benches was bad leadership. And despite how much glee we’d take in a purge, caucus isn’t very big. Everyone has a job to do.

            In the words of that great political strategist, K. Rogers: you’ve got to know when to hold ’em, know when to fold ’em.

            • Greywarbler 3.1.1.1.2.1

              Like that Pete Here’s a bit more of that down-home wisdom from LyricsFreak.

              You got to know when to hold ’em, know when to fold ’em,
              Know when to walk away and know when to run.
              You never count your money when you’re sittin’ at the table.
              There’ll be time enough for countin’ when the dealin’s done.

              Now Ev’ry gambler knows that the secret to survivin’
              Is knowin’ what to throw away and knowing what to keep.
              ‘Cause ev’ry hand’s a winner and ev’ry hand’s a loser,
              And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep.”

              Nah. we are going for a win (or unattractive 2nd choice from words of advice of older political satire from Brit –
              ‘How to Win an Election or not Lose by Very Much’.)

  4. vto 4

    It is interesting to note how disconnected the Labour MPs were from the people they are supposed to represent.

    That the MPs felt so very differently about who would be the best leader kind of makes you wonder how differently they think about other very important matters that concern the people. It lines up with what happens with each and every government, including Clark’s lot and Key’s lot – after a smallish period of time they become aloof, arrogant and think they know best.

    This leadership contest’s resulting vote would seem to establish with some considerable certainty that many MPs live on another planet, disconnected from the real world (yes, it is the real world) and disconnected from the people of New Zealand. It is a common charge. It has now been established beyond doubt.

    This point also raises a further question around whether being in Wellington does this to them or whether they are inherently this way. Probably a combo effect.

    Bottom line – listen very closely to the people and represent them.

    Power to the people!

    • chris73 4.1

      This is true

    • Chooky 4.2

      +1 vto.

      ….my sister and mother who were disillusioned traditional Labour voters and who were going to vote elsewhere in 2014…..are now going to vote Labour!.

      ..They are very enthusiastic about David Cunliffe

      ……and they also can’t understand why the Labour caucus in Wellington was so out of touch with the rest of New Zealand.

      …Answers are needed here…maybe it is because many of those in caucus did not have to fight for their seats?…..I refuse to believe it is just a Wellington problem….more like a parliament ‘in-club’ problem… inwhich case it needs to be addressed….as does the capture of MSM

  5. just saying 5

    I’d post a link to Josie Pagani’s misleading and self-serving “advice” column for Cunliffe and the Labour Party over at at Pundit. But do we need another object lesson in all that’s wrong with Labour?

    There seems to be a real danger in the world of professional spindoctoring, in which its more naive practitioners come to believe that garbled, inconsistent, illogical tosh is convincing to others on the grounds that they have successfuly lied to themselves.

    • karol 5.1

      I’d be willing to bet, the new parliamentary Labour leader won’t be choosing JP for his media/PR person.

      • Pasupial 5.1.1

        I’m hoping that; PAGANI, Josephine Jefcoate, won’t be at 38 on the list in 2014 (as she was in 2011 – above 4 current electorate MPs). I’d been glancing at the lists from last election to try guess what a 35/15% Cunliffe Labour/ Green government (ie 42/ 18 seat) would look like, when I realised that Labour result would have given us MP Pagani – let’s not do that. Really got me hoping for some new names on those lists!

        http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2011/e9/html/e9_part3_1.html

        Also; TWYFORD, Philip Stoner, “Stoner” is Twyford’s middle name?! What kind of parents did the guy have?

  6. tracey 6

    i assumed jp was auditioning for a job with hooten

  7. chris73 7

    So what do you all think Mallard and Hipkins are doing this morning, updating CVs or desperately trying to get hold of Cunliffe?

    • felix 7.1

      That’s a question only of interest to right wing fuckwits trying to stir shit.

      • chris73 7.1.1

        Oh I don’t know, I think it’s quite an interesting question…I mean Clark did keep Cullen on but are Mallard, Hipkins or Curran close to Cullens skill?

        Interesting times

        • North 7.1.1.1

          Hurry hurry hurry Chris73…….only a short time longer when you can come back panting “John Key preferred PM 62% nah nah na nah nah !” – or whatever bullshit figure that bullshit survey was giving at the time.

          You know it aye ?

    • bad12 7.2

      After what David Cunliffe said on TV1 this morning, Mallard and Hipkins are probably having quite a relaxed morning…

    • David H 7.3

      CV updating I should hope, Mallard especially. Hipkins also

  8. Linz 8

    Excuse my ignorance, but can someone explain “silent T”?

  9. Outofbed 9

    My god listened to RNZ and there was suddenly an opposition leader.
    Its taken a while!!!
    I might switch to Labour when there is a Caucus clear out 🙂
    Well done to all those Labour Party members who pushed through the changes to reclaim their party
    Lets hope I can join you soon

    • just saying 9.1

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/221735/key-warned-to-be-on-guard

      Breathing a long sigh of relief.

      Thankyou fellow lefties. There has been a lot of sharp thinking and hard work behind the return of Labour principles – plenty within these digital pages.

      And isn’t it good to finally hear a Labour leader talking about the party and nation as ‘us’, ‘our’ and ‘we’? It amazes me that Shearer was ever considered to be more humble and less power-crazed than Cunliffe.

  10. Outofbed 10

    My god listened to RNZ and there was suddenly an opposition leader.
    Its taken a while!!!
    I might switch to Labour when there is a Caucus clear out 🙂
    Well done to all those Labour Party members who pushed through the changes to reclaim their party

    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      And its only taken 21 months for it to fucking happen. As a reminder to everyone what standard caucus decided on first up…”ummmmm…errrr…ahhhhh…maybe…uhhhhhh…sorta…possibly…hmmmm”

  11. Steve 11

    Cunliffe was on fire on TV3 this morning.

    Absolutely on message throughout and refused to be distracted by some bullshit questions.

    Rounded the interview off with a polite thankyou to Mr Key for “delaying his holiday to the yacht race so that he could face him at question time on tuesday!”.

    Very impressive stuff.

    • karol 11.1

      Also, Cunliffe is possibly neutralising one of Key’s strategies the qick comic quip – saying Key is better than him at that, but it is superficial. Cunliffe will be dealing with more of the serious stuff.

      Further, Cunliffe has said that fronting up to Key in the House tomorrow will just be one step in a long process – basically saying he’s not expecting to land a killer blow on Key tomorrow in the House.

      • Rogue Trooper 11.1.1

        Ohne Hast, aber ohne Rast
        -Goethe, Zahme Xenien (with Schiller). 😀

      • David H 11.1.2

        Yeah Key goes in anticipating a torrid time, and Labour just totally ignore him.

        • karol 11.1.2.1

          You mean, like, Question Time tomorrow, Cunliffe addresses his question/s to Judith Collins and/or Joyce, or English?

          • Rogue Trooper 11.1.2.1.1

            That would be Hilarious; worth me popping over to me mates to watch the Live Event.(and cheaper than Mayweather vs Alvarez). 😎 Not that I’m a fan of pugilistic politics…

          • David H 11.1.2.1.2

            Or not just for today, how about they NEVER ask Key another question. Talk about marginalised.

    • North 11.2

      Cunliffe was great on Nine to Noon.

      Tried to put myself in the shoes of one who doesn’t follow politics particularly.

      Q – “Does this guy sound like he knows what he’s talking about ?”

      A – “Yeah……he does…….”

      Me for the rest of the drive to the factory – feeling “safe” so to speak. And relieved that the NZLP leadership business has finally ended and the NZ leadership business has finally started.

      Cunliffe – authority and assuredness !

    • chris73 12.1

      Garbage in = Garbage out

      Not that’ll stop the Greenies from continuing with their message of doom

    • Rogue Trooper 12.2

      meanwhile, in Colorado, Four dead, 500 missing, 1700 moved;
      -deforestation, then came the floods (or, in the example of Easter Island, the hunger ).
      -more US citizens “in the greatest country on earth” to spend weeks without electricity and (clean) running water.

      • Greywarbler 12.2.1

        Rogue I thought that the trees got burned down during the drought. So was there deliberate deforestation first or at all in Colorado?

    • Lanthanide 12.3

      1C or 2C, it’s still warming.

      • Rogue Trooper 12.3.1

        can you hear that feedback? or is it just an effects pedal?

      • Bob 12.3.2

        Yes, at the expected natural rate coming out of a little ice age! It was only last year we were still being told about how human influence had accelerated global warming and we are all doomed, now you are claiming a win because the temperature warmed at the predicted natural rates?

        • Greywarbler 12.3.2.1

          Oh great Bob the Builder – with your carpenter’s apron protecting your manhood, and your trusty hammer as a weapon you are going to hold back the depredations of nature. We look to you to help, care about and protect us. Our injuries, losses , deaths will be lessened or prevented by you while all the time looking over your shoulder shouting – fear not, it’s just a natural cycle that has happened over thousands of years. Don’t worry be happy before you starve, or are drowned or burned or….

          • Bob 12.3.2.1.1

            or…..making the most unfounded scaremongering claims since George W and Iraq’s WMD’s! We all know how that scaremongering turned out!
            FYI, I am all for cleaning up air quality and reducing the output of air/water pollutants, just do it based on the proven health effects, and for the sake of the wider environment, not as part of a campaign that is continuing to lose credibility while costing people their livelihoods (such as the effects of the carbon tax’s in Australia and the pressure they have put their economy under).

            • Murray Olsen 12.3.2.1.1.1

              Please tell us about the damage to the economy done by the carbon tax in Australia. Be specific, name companies, and give figures. Slogans don’t count, nor do Abbott’s lies about $100 legs of lamb.

              • Bob

                Here you go http://www.aigroup.com.au/portal/binary/com.epicentric.contentmanagement.servlet.ContentDeliveryServlet/LIVE_CONTENT/Publications/Reports/2013/Carbon_price_impacts_Jan_2013.pdf
                Key points: In our survey of 485 businesses conducted at the end of November 2012, the carbon tax was estimated to have increased energy prices from 1 July by an average 14.5 per cent. This result was broadly consistent across sectors:
                · Manufacturing businesses reported that their total energy input costs increased by an average of 14.5 per cent as a direct result of the carbon tax.
                · For businesses in the services sector, the increase was reported at 13.6 per cent.
                · Businesses in the construction sector reported that the carbon tax had increased their total energy costs by 14.8 per cent.

                • Murray Olsen

                  So you can tell me how much power would have gone up over those 6 months without the tax? There were other changes happening at the same time, at the state government level. How much did these factor into it? The AIG seems to have overlooked these, possibly because the conservative state governments are their mates.
                  How does the cost of one input going up translate into overall costs?
                  How does the cost of one input increasing equal damage to the economy?
                  How many people lost their livelihoods because of the carbon tax? I know plenty have because of conservative governments slashing the public sector, which led to a slowdown in consumer activity. Did the AIG research this, or were they so ecstatic about outsourced contracts and fire sales of public assets that they forgot?

                  Maybe most importantly, what concrete proposals do you have to clean up the environment you are so worried about?

                  • Bob

                    Your last question is the only one worth an answer as all of the others are simply an inept effort to deflect the fact that the Carbon Tax has had a demonstrable effect on the Australian economy.

                    I would pull out of the ETS but leave the current tax system in place (exempting farms entirely). The funds raised from this scheme, I would put directly into enforcing clean waterway schemes such as planting native plants along the banks of rivers and streams, extensive water testing to find major polluters and targeting farmers that allow cattle to enter waterways, forcing them to fence their herds in or face large fines. The remainder of the money that is currently just being sent offshore from the ETS with no benefit to NZ’s environment, I would put towards larger subsidies for landlords installing solar panels into their properties with an aim to both reduce tenants power bills, but also in the longer term, looking to reduce the load on the power grid so the Huntley power station and all other non-renewable power stations can be wound down completely.

    • joe90 12.4

      I expect this assertion by the fail will be much like the ice cap grows one – wrong.

      • Bob 12.5.1

        Draco, firstly, Rolling Stone……really? One of your weakest efforts yet.
        Since you linked to it though, lets have a look at this quote:
        “Scientists have a variety of explanations for this, including the fact that more heat is being transferred deeper into the ocean and that volcanic eruptions have blocked sunlight. “We never expected warming to be linear,” says Kevin Trenberth, senior scientist at the Climate Analysis Section at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado.”
        Well, according to one of your favourite sites http://www.skepticalscience.com/broken-hockey-stick.htm Kevin is correct, the warming was expected to be borderline exponential…….or has that changed now that the facts don’t match the propaganda?
        Also, where were these massive volcanic eruptions blocking sunlight? The last significant eruption (in terms of volume and ability to significantly effect climate) was Mount Pinatubo in 1991, I really hope for his credibility he is not talking about the Eyafjallajökull eruption in 2010!

  12. weka 13

    Getting a few of these this morning –

    Network Error (tcp_error)

    A communication error occurred: “Operation timed out”

    The Web Server may be down, too busy, or experiencing other problems preventing it from responding to requests. You may wish to try again at a later time.

    For assistance, contact your network support team.

    Nice to see the standard so busy today 🙂

    • Rogue Trooper 13.1

      well, it’s freakin’ slow here; the chisel’s getting blunt inscribing all these cuniforms.

    • bad12 13.2

      Sounds like a net-wide slow down then, i am not getting any error messages but have to shut down and re-boot as everything has become ‘stuck’,

      Perhaps the Doctors in charge are trying to get us all thinking about super-fast broadband delivered via fibre-optics,

      Nah they don’t mess with our minds like that do they…

  13. Rogue Trooper 14

    Joyce, and the radio spectrum auctions AGAIN
    btw, Hipkins does not have Cunliffe’s confidence as whip-RNZ Midday Report

  14. aerobubble 15

    So Rudd beat Howard. Gillard beat Abbott. Abbott now looks to have beated a self-beaten Labour party. yeah, I get it, Abbott has a mandate to lead Australia to the right. Now there’s talk of a down dissolution, and Labour has no leader not tainted by the stench.

  15. Bill 17

    Only putting this out there because no-one else has. Chief Whip. Shane Jones?

    • Jim Nald 17.1

      What? Chief in whipping himself?
      Chief in offering himself as an example to be whipped?

      • Bill 17.1.1

        🙂 Can’t recall self flagellation or any type of flagellation as being one of his pass times.

        But on a serious note, Jones was up front about his ‘old fashioned’ conservatism when approaching some topics during ‘the tour’ (such as positive weighting). BUT, he also stated that whatever the Party decided, it was his job to ‘get on with it’ – whether it was a part of his personal slant or not.

        Add to that, that he didn’t exactly mince his words when commenting on Curran and where he saw her positioned in the future. He has been similarly forthright on the prospect of anyone playing silly buggers.

        So he (obviously) wasn’t a Cunliffe backer. I think I’m right in saying he was in the old guard camp but got somewhat kicked in the teeth by Shearer. So maybe he’s kind of unaligned. And that, along with what I’ve written above, could maybe add up to him being a useful and effective enforcer.

        • Jim Nald 17.1.1.1

          Hehe.

          Two things.

          The role would be TOO MUCH OF A HARD WORK for himself.

          And second, he knows it and has ruled himself out:

          “He would not put his name in the ring for deputy leadership and he was keen to see a female MP take on the role.”

          http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/273275/cunliffe-quick-demand-loyalty

          Btw, Dene Mackenzie of the ODT has done a lot more balanced, fair reporting than his colleagues in other media.

          • Bill 17.1.1.1.1

            Chief whip – not deputy.

            • Jim Nald 17.1.1.1.1.1

              Yeah, ok. The second thing noted above should be corrected.
              But chief whip is still hard work (for him) and would need someone more disciplined in more ways than one.

        • Rogue Trooper 17.1.1.2

          a friend of a different orientation informed moi what ‘docking’ was when applied to acts between, well, men, the other day. Might not have been seen in a favorable light down the Otara market, or, on The paepae . Shudder. What will they come up with next? (and I’ll never look at a ‘rose’ in the same botanical light again, I can tell you!

  16. karol 18

    Cunliffe’s press standup this afternoon – audio available, video available later tonight.

  17. chris73 19

    Maybe a certain poster on here might like to have a wee chat with the sender and suggest its a good idea to see who you’re sending invites to before you hit the send button…

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/09/always-suspected-amy-bit-pink-didnt-know-abc-though/#axzz2euvS3RGO

    Mind you I’m assuming its a wind-up

    • felix 19.1

      It’s not real you fucking idiot.

      • chris73 19.1.1

        “Mind you I’m assuming its a wind-up”

        – Thats why I added the above, had I thought it was real I would have gone to town you smeg head

        • felix 19.1.1.1

          No shit.

          And if you weren’t a fuckwit you wouldn’t have bothered posting that bullshit at all.

          • chris73 19.1.1.1.1

            More like even though its a wind up it is the type of thing you could easily imagine the Labour party doing

            and for the record sticks and stones may break my bones but your words especially cannot hurt me 🙂 you scruffy nerf herder 🙂

    • Rogue Trooper 19.2

      well, if it’ll keep you up at night, I left a comment (and am not changing the gravatar, so there, my Dad is bigger than your Dad!

  18. fender 20

    Long way to the letterbox

  19. Colonial Viper 21

    “the NZ Labour Party is back!”

    Finally finally managed to get my hands on the promised video of Cunliffe’s leadership speech at the Black Salt pub (across the road from his New Lynn) electorate office. Delivered around 3 1/2 hours after the announcement of his leadership win.

    Perhaps someone could load it up to YouTube or put up a post on it? Pretty please?

    NB the video file is a 64.5 MB download.

    https://mega.co.nz/#!IhUV0SgK!KZJfHg_jFIqVVsvkETBGqSHmEYdVcBtYlaMUHE6Eyzg

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