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Open mike 16/11/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 16th, 2015 - 75 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

75 comments on “Open mike 16/11/2015 ”

  1. Manuka AOR 1

    ” “This is not just an attack on the French people, it is an attack on human decency and all things that we hold dear,” says U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham. I’m not sure I hold ALL the same things dear as the senator, but for the most part I think he’s exactly right and that sympathy damn well ought to be the order of the day following a horrific mass killing in France.

    “I just think the same should apply to everywhere else on earth as well.”
    – David Swanson: “Non-French War Deaths Matter” http://davidswanson.org/

  2. Manuka AOR 2

    Marama Fox on The Nation:
    “They have given the minister absolute power above the law to determine whether somebody has their citizenship revoked, even if they apply to be an Australian citizen…”
    “So he also does not have to reveal to the court under that law or your lawyers or the prosecution why he has made that decision. So you can’t even defend yourself in a court of law. So in the case of Ko Rutene, his record has been sealed – and this is not his conviction; this is the decision of why he is now being deported – has been sealed. And that might be something, or it might be nothing, and you can’t defend it because you just don’t know.” http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/raw-data-interview-maori-party-co-leader-marama-fox-181633

    • tc 2.1

      Tie me kangaroo court down john, tie me etc etc

    • vto 2.2

      Isn’t that dictatorship?

      Australia a dictatorship?

      Actions speak louder than words

    • RedLogix 2.3

      There was some significant comment here in Australia when Abbott introduced these regulations, that absolute Ministerial power was going to be a recipe for this kind of problem.

      However since Turnbull has become PM – well he’s got a teflon layer an inch thick and the Coalition can do no wrong. So suddenly no traction.

  3. gsays 3

    40 men, women and children were killed and 180 injured in a double suicide bombing in beirut 5 days ago.
    where is the blanket coverage?
    where is the analysis?
    where are the leaders and their sabre rattling utterances?
    what is the difference between this atrocity and the horror in paris?

    • Manuka AOR 3.1

      More than 35,000 people have been killed by terrorist attacks in Pakistan since 2001; this year so far, 287 civilians.

      And then there are the drone strikes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan

    • GregJ 3.2

      Depends on what sources of news you are using.

      Plenty of coverage on Al Jazeera, RT, France 24, CNN, Deutsche Welle, BBC Radio as well as the media here in the Middle East. Overwhelmed to an extent in the last day by Paris but still being covered.

      Leadership of Hezbollah stated they would continue to fight Da’ish and support Assad. The Lebanese Prime Minister Tammam Salam declared a day of national mourning on Friday, November 13. The Lebanese authorities have arrested five Syrians and one Palestinian, who are suspected of playing a part in the bombings.

      A bomb also exploded during midday prayers at a mosque frequented by Houthi (more Shia) supporters in Yemen’s on Friday as well – killing several worshippers and wounding others. The blast took place in Shibam, a city some 40 km (25 miles) outside the capital of Sanaa that had been an area of relative calm.

    • Ovid 3.3

      what is the difference between this atrocity and the horror in paris?

      Lebanon is not a Nato ally.

    • maui 3.4

      Its interesting on facebook with lots of people changing their profile picture showing the French flag. Can guarantee they wouldn’t change their profile to a middle eastern country flag even though the civilian death toll has been a magnitude higher in those places.

    • Tracey 3.5

      G20 had a minutes silence for the victims in Paris and Turkey…

      Perhaps they realised if they read the whole list they would never get down to thebusiness of making money?

    • Pasupial 3.6

      This was reposted by David Robie on TDB, but with the original you can follow the links:

      Indeed, had the victims been more “like us” than the otherized, eerie- and criminal-sounding inhabitants of Beirut’s southern suburbs where the bombings occurred — incessantly described by the sheeplike media as a “Hezbollah stronghold” or “Hezbollah bastion” — they’d have stood a much greater chance of breaking our hearts.

      Hell, we might have even seen references to Beirut’s romanticized former identity as the “Paris of the Middle East.”

      Following yesterday’s attacks in the Paris of Europe, meanwhile, Facebook users in the vicinity of the city were encouraged to check in as “safe” — an option not made available the previous day to Facebook users in Beirut


      The numbers in Beirut were 43 dead (44 in above link) and 239 injured in The Guardian. But while the story was reported, it is nowhere as omnipresent as the Paris bombings. Ex-colonial powers seem to preserve notions of impunity for their actions.


    • Grindlebottom 3.7

      Other bombings and cold-blooded executions elsewhere do get media attention, mainly in the press though, as do the local authorities’ statements denouncing the perpetrators and talking about bringing them to justice. It’s just that we don’t notice them. Once they become commonplace they fall off the front page, unless they’re happing somewhere they’re not normal (Bangkok, Thailand) or are so novel or extreme in some way they make headlines and media interest remains high for a while. I watch Al Jazeera, admittedly they carry far more such items than our trashy superficial tv newsentertainsportsment. Plus we identify more closely with Western European countries so I guess attacks feel closer to home and our media coverage reflects that. We only ever get the US perspective on them though. Nobody shows the reality of the war, the casualities, the bits of people in trees and lamp posts after an aerial or suicide bombing. Very sanitised. Even Al Jazeera.

      • gsays 3.7.1

        hi all above,
        i had a look at those links re pakistan deaths, grim reading.

        i hardly engage with tv (sports excluded), commercial radio or newspapers and i felt a little overwhelmed by the reaction.
        watching the nz vs oz cricket test,
        there was an ad for a ‘news’ special-“a world on edge”.
        good grief!

  4. The Chairman 4

    Will Labour’s new sugar policy run foul of the TPP?

    Sugar is largely used in processed foods to enhance flavour or as a preservative with the expectation the improved flavor and extended shelf life will contribute to better returns.

    Therefore, Labour’s intention to put in place policy to limit sugar use may hamper company returns, resulting in them being challenged through the investor-state dispute settlement process.


    • savenz 4.1

      The government will not be able to legislate anything under TPP without it being challenged in courts outside of NZ if someone thinks it will effect their potential profit. So of course the sugar industry will be suing the government over this one, also mining access. Likewise preferential treatment of local tenders will not be allowed under TPP – or they might be allowed – by then the government has to compensate for potential losses.

      TPP is lunacy for any government to commit to, apart from absolute ‘free market’ ideologists of the far right like ACT.

      TPP takes away the governments ability to govern.

      And as for taxes – well look at who is not paying them in Australia. So the government is wanting to give more power to these corporates who already do not even pay any taxes, like everyone else.

      The Australian Tax Office have revealed at a Senate Inquiry into corporate tax secercy laws that 1 in 5 private companies that earn over $100 million a year paid no tax in 2014.1

      Incredibly, the Government just passed legislation in parliament that makes the tax details of all private companies earning over $100 million a year secret.

      • The Chairman 4.1.1

        I found it strange Labour would announce such a contestable policy amongst the controversy over their TPP position.

        I see there is a big role for NZ lawyers in international dispute resolution being predicted.


        • Colonial Viper

          I found it strange Labour would announce such a contestable policy amongst the controversy over their TPP position.

          It’s called policy incoherancy. It’s a symptom of a political organisation which has either given up on its values, or has no intellectual framework able to implement those values, or both.

          • The Chairman

            Yes, well the policy does seem to be inconsistent with their weakening TPP positioning. However, it also seems to be an attempt to get one over National’s recent obesity policy. Which explains the rush to get it out there.

            But the timing of the release, considering the controversy, was rather strange. Unless, of course, it was also required to fill their current policy void.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2

        TPP is lunacy for any government to commit to, apart from absolute ‘free market’ ideologists of the far right like ACT.

        Actually, if Act were sticking to their supposed ideology they wouldn’t support it either but they don’t. They’re as much about protecting and increasing the power and wealth of the rich as National.

    • Tracey 4.2

      In INternatiional food company terms who is the “sugar” industry? Coca Cola?

      “Coca-Cola’s $35.1 billion in revenue makes it the 84th largest economy in the world, just ahead of Costa Rica”


      • savenz 4.2.1

        @Tracy and do you think CocoCola will sue a Labour government that wants to tax sugar drinks under TPP – I think YES – if NZ puts on a sugar tax other countries will also do so and these corporations don’t want that.

        Some of the corporations are bigger than some countries. Of course they will be using their legal rights GIVEN AWAY under TPP to promote their interests and stop public health laws. The tax payer picks up the tab for dentistry and health from drinking their drinks and the legal costs of the suing. LOSE LOSE for taxpayers and citizens.

      • The Chairman 4.2.2

        Big industry players and the challenge they pose would explain why Labour are initially hoping the industry will voluntarily reduce its use.

  5. Rosemary McDonald 5

    Award winning editor of the Northland Age hits out at lack of Government support for the Far North.

    Peter Jackson is usually expected to be ever so slightly right leaning…..


    “Those who regarded National’s offer to double-lane 10 one-way bridges in return for continued loyalty as a crass bribe were probably right,….

    For all that it is difficult not to believe that National has learned nothing from its by-election defeat, not only in terms of Northland but provincial electorates around the country.

    Ensuring that government contracts go to local businesses, assuming they are competitive and able to do the work, would seem to be a very simple way of boosting a small town’s economy,

    We’re with Winston. Northland’s long-term financial future hinges upon finding meaningful work for the unemployed, and as Mr Peters keeps saying, there is plenty of work to be done. In this case the government could make a desperately needed contribution to saving what remains of our priceless natural heritage. One might have expected the Minister of Conservation to give some thought to that, given that she is presiding over what many say is an unprecedented collapse in habitat that is driving ever more native species towards extinction.

    That, Ms Barry, is your bag. That is what should be keeping you awake at night.”

  6. sabine 6

    i have a friend who is involved in protecting our natural and ancestral culture.
    To be polite, it appears that Mrs. Barry marching orders are to the contrary and many good people have and are simply resigning, and others are holding on to straws. But the impression that is gained, is that cultural and ancestral heritage are things of yesteryears bygone, and are so very very passée.
    Knock down that forest, build gated McMansions on graveyards and the likes.

  7. RedLogix 7

    Nothing any of us probably didn’t know already; but it’s useful to see it written down in one place:

    A new study has identified the workplace as a major cause of psychological and physical ill-health. From long hours to economic insecurity, our jobs could literally be killing us. So what practices lead to a healthy workplace?


  8. Morrissey 8

    President Obama speaks out: “An attack on the civilized world”
    Monday 16 November 2015

    Still waiting for any comment from this paragon of civilization re the following attacks on the civilized world….

    1.) Attacking Kunduz Hospital just last month….

    2.) Gaza and the Occupied West Bank, every single day….

    3.) Fallujah Hospital, 2004….

    4.) On-going murder of Yemeni civilians by remote-controlled aircraft…..

    5.) U.S. troops running amok in Afghanistan….

    • Sabine 8.1

      does he believe the rest of the world is not civilized?
      Sometimes i think the more educated they are the dumber they get.

    • Grindlebottom 8.2

      I’ve stopped listening to him. He has no real credibility on most things any more. Obamacare maybe yes, but certainly not on anything to do with international relations or Israel/Palestine, or any of the activities of his forces, or his foreign policies. He just sounds like a front man for the usual corporate interests that seem to dominate American politics and presidents. His hyprocrisy makes me wince every bit as much as GW Bush’s did.

  9. Morrissey 9

    Israeli Soldiers Open Fire On Palestinian Farmers In Gaza
    Thursday November 12, 2015

    Israeli soldiers, stationed across the border fence, fired dozens of rounds of live ammunition on Palestinian farmers, working in their lands close to the border fence, east of Deir al-Balah, in central Gaza.

    Eyewitnesses said the soldiers, some on military towers and others in armored vehicles, fired dozens of live rounds, and smoke bombs, at the farmers in their own lands, causing damage but no injuries.

    The farmers left their lands fearing additional Israeli military escalation.

    The Israeli army frequently attacks farmers and workers in Palestinian lands close to the border fence, and fishers in Gaza territorial waters; the attacks led to dozens of casualties, including fatalities.


  10. Sabine 10

    in the meantime Erdogan is waging war against the Kurds.



  11. savenz 11


    Documents submitted to the Senate corporate tax avoidance inquiry by the International Transport Federation reveal Chevron paid just $248 tax on $1.7 billion profit made in Australia last year.

    The Australian Tax Office have revealed at a Senate Inquiry into corporate tax secercy laws that 1 in 5 private companies that earn over $100 million a year paid no tax in 2014.1

    Incredibly, the Government just passed legislation in parliament that makes the tax details of all private companies earning over $100 million a year secret.

    Corporate tax dodging isn’t a victimless scheme. Our schools and hospitals miss out on the funding they need, meaning familes miss out on the quality services they rely on for a brighter future.

    Join the campaign to demand all corporations pay the tax they should: http://bit.ly/1WLMEaw

  12. veutoviper 12

    It looks like Mediaworks have bitten off more than they expected on the 3D programme possible cancellation/non-renewal.


    “The recently-announced proposal not to renew TV3’s flagship current affairs show 3D is now subject to fierce resistance from the show’s journalists, who have assembled a legal team to work on a challenge to the way employment process was conducted.

    The Spinoff can reveal that 3D‘s journalists have called on lawyers, forensic accountants and employment experts to help build a case that proper processes weren’t followed, and are in a dialogue with the channel’s Human Resources department.

    “If Weldon thinks he can take on a room full of investigative journalists and they’re just going to roll over, he’s very much mistaken,” says a source privy to the situation. …”

  13. ianmac 13

    David Fisher has published that piece about the ex senior police officer who was “stunned” at the handling of the Slater gripe.
    “A spokesman for police headquarters said it was not unusual for national headquarters staff to be sent complaints.” Oh really?

  14. ianmac 14

    Scoop has reached the target! Good news.

  15. Morrissey 15

    Who else is disgusted by Obama, Kerry and Clinton’s bloviating?
    Surely nobody believes a word of what these terrorists say.

    U.S. leaders are suddenly pretending they don’t like terrorism. If they were serious, this is what they would have said about some recent events…..

    PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: “The killing of innocent people based on a twisted ideology is an attack not just on Gaza, not just on the Occupied West Bank, not just on Iraq, not just on Afghanistan, not just on Yemen, but it is an attack on the civilized world.”

    SECRETARY OF STATE JOHN KERRY: “I want to make sure that it is absolutely crystal clear that the United States stands with the people of the Occupied Territories and the rest of the world in our resolve to eliminate the scourge of violent extremist groups from the face of the Earth.”

    HILLARY CLINTON: “Our prayers are with the people of Afghanistan tonight, but that is not enough. We need to have a resolve that will bring the world together to root out the kind of radical imperialist ideology that motivates organizations like the U.S. military, a barbaric, ruthless, violent terrorist group.”

    What these hypocrites actually said….

  16. savenz 16

    The French government will not support the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) between the EU and US as long as a controversial stipulation is included.

    France, like the UK and Germany, will block the trade deal all together if the mechanism of investor-to-state dispute settlement (ISDS) is included; EurActiv France reported.

    The clause appears in most free trade agreements, and would leave France defenseless against foreign companies taking legal action against it if laws and legislation stunt profits.

    “France did not want the ISDS to be included in the negotiation mandate,” France’s Secretary of State for Foreign Trade, Matthias Fekl told the French Senate. “We have to preserve the right of the state to set and apply its own standards, to maintain the impartiality of the justice system and to allow the people of France, and the world, to assert their values,” he added.

    Due to this stumbling block, there will be no “significant advances” in the trade agreement, which has been a sour point in US-EU relations.

    France earlier said it wouldn’t sign the TTIP as long as the US continued spying on EU allies.

    • Tracey 16.1

      The Republic is a strong thing in France, quite a different beast from the republic of USA

    • Rodel 16.2

      I like this bit-” “We have to preserve the right of the state to set and apply its own standards, to maintain the impartiality of the justice system and to allow the people of France, and the world, to assert their values,”

      Pity our representative ( representative? ha!) couldn’t insert the words ‘New Zealand’ where Matthias Fekl said ‘France’

  17. logie97 17

    Nine to Noon this morning
    In the first interview, Napoleoni stopped one of Ryan’s lines by categorically dismissing as media speculation that the terrorists are Syrian refugees and warned of the dangers of such speculation.

    Within minutes, in the second interview with McCant he repeats the media speculation about the terrorists being Syrian refugees, and Ryan let it pass unchallenged.

    1. Ryan interviewed 9:15 AM. Loretta Napoleoni

    2. Ryan interviewed Will McCant

    It appears Ryan was caught out this morning, for the sake of maintaining her prepared questions and her storyline.

    • logie97 17.1

      … and so the journalists continue the meme.
      On questioning John Key on RNZ this evening regarding refugees, one of the journalists perpetuated the speculation that “in view of what has happened in Paris, will we be vetting potential refugees to New Zealand more stringently…”

  18. ianmac 18

    TV3 The Story. The devious Simon Lusk was on tonight in an interview with Garner.
    Remember Dirty Tricks and the influence of Lusk in getting some MPs in and some out. He says that he was behind Stuart Nash who was planning on leaving Labour and starting a new party. Truth or Fantasy???

    • Hami Shearlie 18.1

      Garner stated that Nash confirmed it, but wouldn’t say it on camera! Nothing about Nash would surprise me after his diatribe on TDB a wee while ago!

    • Anne 18.2

      Nash has openly confirmed in the past that a group of local businessmen in Napier had approached him to start a new party before the last election. He turned it down.

    • Morrissey 18.3

      Nash would be a good fit for the Bald Brummies Party….

  19. Chooky 19

    Everything you ever wanted to know about Climate Change ( in one hour flat) from RT’s ‘The Big Picture’

    ‘Understanding climate change: A conversation with Michael Mann’


    “Thom goes over the basics of what global warming is, what’s causing it, and how we can stop it with climate scientist Michael Mann, author of the book “Dire Predictions: Understanding Climate Change.”

    ( a bloody good educational from a top professor on Climate Change)

  20. Morrissey 20

    “It is clear that life has changed FOREVER.”
    Kiwis insulted by clichéd and ill-informed coverage of Paris atrocities

    “And the radio is in the hands of such a lot of fools
    tryin’ to anaesthetise the way that you feel.”

    —-Elvis Costello

    8 a.m. news, RNZ National, Sunday 15 November 2015

    The commentary on Radio NZ, whether by journalists or by random people approached in the street, was banal. This is Hannah Smellie, a New Zealander in Paris: “It’s just really surreal. There’s not many happy faces around.”

    Banality, however, is forgivable. What is not forgivable was the moronic fare being served up on commercial radio. I switched from RNZ National to NewstalkZB, just at the end of an editorial by the host Andrew Dickens….

    NewstalkZB, 8:08 a.m. ….

    ANDREW DICKENS: The French, too, must be PARTICULARLY fearful that they are being targeted by these animals. ISIS is now Public Enemy Number One with François Hollande vowing to be RUTHLESS and PITILESS in his response. Whatever the outcome, it is clear that life has changed FOREVER.

    After his sophomoric little homily, Dickens interviewed the station’s Paris correspondent Katherine Field, who (as usual) had nothing at all interesting to say, except to note that these were “kamikaze attacks on soft targets.” As bad as Dickens and Field are, there was worse to come. Far worse….

    ANDREW DICKENS: Our special will continue after 9 o’clock for an hour, with MIKE HOSKING. Then after ten, Tim Wilson will speak to security expert Paul Buchanan. I’ve got a text here from someone: “I would have thought the flags on the Harbour Bridge would be at half mast, but they are not.”

    A gang of armed jihadis could not have made me listen to Hosking vaporing on for an hour on this subject. And Tim Wilson, though far more intelligent and thoughtful than the likes of Dickens or Hosking, seems determined to dumb himself down to their level, so I wasn’t really hopeful that his interview after 10 o’clock with Paul Buchanan, who DOES command respect, would be worth listening to.

    I didn’t tune in again until 11:15, just in time to hear Paul Buchanan say: “Blaming Obama for this is specious and partisan.” A caller named Peter, who described himself as “a rural caller”, said: “A Muslim centre has popped up near where I live. And I don’t feel that good about it.”

    A few minutes later, another caller, also identifying himself as “rural”, took a much harder, intolerant tone. “It’s time,” he growled, “that we stopped Islamics coming into the country.”

    Tim Wilson, who throughout didn’t seem to have much idea, ditched his usual flippant tone and spoke in a deliberate manner, obviously designed to show how serious and sincere he was. “We want to understand the MEANING of these attacks, just why these young men become radicalized.”

    I’m sure Paul Buchanan said something intelligent at some point, but considering he had consented to swim in a sea of ignorance, I doubt many people had the patience to wait for it. I turned it off, and I’m sure most others did too, except for the terminally braindead, the lonely, the depressed and ACT voters.

    Television, of course, was just as bad. No wonder, when you see who’s involved….

    Television One news, Monday 16 November 2015, 6:50 p.m.

    SIMON DALLOW: [sombrely] And after the weather it’s Seven Sharp. [He addresses host Mike Hosking directly] Of course you’re going back to Paris, to show solidarity.

    ad nauseam….

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