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Open Mike 17/08/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 17th, 2018 - 198 comments
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198 comments on “Open Mike 17/08/2018 ”

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  1. Ed 1
    17 August 2018 at 6:50 am

    Robert Fisk is a rare beacon of light in a dimming world.
    Here he provides valuable insights on the geopolitical events going on in Turkey.

    “A US trade war with Turkey over a little known pastor? Don’t believe a word of it.

    For here’s the real list of Erdogan’s crimes. He is buying the Russian S-400 missile system for Turkey. He refuses to accept US support for America’s Kurdish YPG allies. He allowed Islamist fighters to pour over Turkey’s border into Syria along with a lot of weapons, mortars and missiles – to which Washington had no objections at the time since the US was trying to knock Erdogan’s former friend Bashar al-Assad off his perch. Then, after shooting down a Russian aircraft along the Syrian border in November 2015 – for which he was immediately boycotted by Moscow – Erdogan cuddled up to Putin. It was thus the Russians and the Iranians who first warned Erdogan of the impending “Gulen coup” against him in July 2016. They had been listening in to the Turkish military’s internal radio traffic – and tipped off the Sultan of Istanbul.

    And now Erdogan is helping Iran to dodge US sanctions which were imposed after Trump flagrantly tore up the 2015 nuclear agreement, and – in a decision demonstrating the cowardly response of the EU’s own oil conglomerates to Trump’s insanity – has announced that he will continue to import Iranian oil. Thus will Washington’s further threat of increased oil sanctions against Iran be blunted. Sunni Saudi Arabia, one of Trump’s closest allies – where religious freedom for the likes of Pastor Brunson has never existed – is already furious with Erdogan. Not long ago, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman denounced Turkey as part of a “triangle of evil” – the other bits of the “triangle” being Shiite Iran and militant Islamists.

    So you can see how things are lining up in the Middle East right now. “

    Read the whole article here,
    Your daily dose of vaccination against the lies of the msm.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/us-turkey-trump-erdogan-trade-war-a8493956.html

    • Tuppence Shrewsbury 1.1
      17 August 2018 at 7:08 am

      Thanks fisk. For pointing out that America is taking non-violent and justified actions. Obama would have gone to war

    • Marcus Morris 1.2
      17 August 2018 at 9:22 am

      Robert Fisk is a brilliant and highly informed commentator on Middle Easter affairs. His “Great War for Civilisation” is a must read for anyone who wants an in depth analysis of the political situation there, although much has happened since he wrote that tome.

      • tc 1.2.1
        17 August 2018 at 12:55 pm

        Yes but he captures the history as it feeds the complexity and paints an excellent picture to that point.

        Highly recommend especially his osama bin laden coverage.

      • gsays 1.2.2
        17 August 2018 at 2:12 pm

        Amen Marcus, Fisk’s book is to be recommended.
        I have done it twice now and am keen to read it again.

    • Adrian Thornton 1.3
      17 August 2018 at 9:55 am

      @Ed, “Your daily dose of vaccination against the lies of the msm.”
      I Like that.

      Isn’t it interesting that most of the most regular and balanced live debates on current affairs come from Press TV (Iran), RT (Russia) and Al Jerezza (Qatar), now I am not saying these countries are beacons of democracy, but they at least these networks offer regular and balanced debates on important world news, which is either almost non existent on MSM or when is presented, so short they they often lack substance and/or context.

      • Adrian Thornton 1.3.1
        17 August 2018 at 2:06 pm

        And the other thing that RT/Al Jerezzra/Democracy Now/Press TV and The Real News do that MSM don’t do any longer, now that any narrative that doesn’t follow party line is shut down, is give Fisk, John Pilger, Noam Chomsky, Glenn Greenwald and Max Blumenthal (amongst others) a platform to speak.

  2. bwaghorn 2
    17 August 2018 at 7:07 am

    Fuck you labour .giving mpi the right to enter any farm without a warrant??
    You are dead to me .and any party that supports them is dead to me .

    Cunts

    • Tuppence Shrewsbury 2.1
      17 August 2018 at 7:09 am

      But unions is ok?

    • riffer 2.2
      17 August 2018 at 7:32 am

      Perhaps if biosecurity and stock movement rules had been adhered to this step wouldn’t be necessary. You can’t have it both ways. If you want M Bovis sorted you have to accept that regular checks may be necessary. The market was left to police itself. It failed.

      • Chris T 2.2.1
        17 August 2018 at 8:46 am

        That is a piss poor excuse to try to justify this change

        Police need a warrant to raid a gang pad full of drug dealers, but MPI can now rock on in or undercover surveil, seize property, at the drop of a hat.

        This is coming from the same people who went ballistic over the GCSB working with the SIS monitoring kiwis crims.

        They are farmers, not criminals

        Another sell out by the Greens

        I can smell the hypocrisy on their breath

        • Graeme 2.2.1.1
          17 August 2018 at 9:47 am

          I’m getting close to drawing the pension and grew up and worked most of my life around the construction industry. In that game you come across most types and degrees of dodgy bastards. And I got to know, for better or worse quite a few.

          Over the last 10 years I’ve been doing a lot of work on and around farms. I always thought agriculture was an honest industry, undertaken by people with integrity and good faith. Some, probably most, farmers I’ve dealt with are people of the highest moral standing with the greatest honesty and integrity you’ll ever meet.

          But the dodgy bastards in the industry are in another league all together. And it’s accepted. Total dishonesty, violence when challenged, and you’ll never get anything in writing so there’s never any proof. Stock appearing on a property, then get retagged, plant with illegible identification numbers, but always just enough to get the right parts, and plenty more shit.

          The idea that agriculture is some how cleaner than driven snow is utter bullshit. Refusal to obey, and operate under the law is criminality. There’s plenty of evidence from the M. Bovis debacle of farmers operating outside the law by refusing to comply with NAIT, or subverting the intent of NAIT. And really the only reasons to not tag is because they are either too lazy (or cashflow challenged), or having the tag on is going to stuff up their dodgy scheme.

          Agriculture is no different to any other struggling industry, some will push the limits for gain at someone else’s cost. In other industries those outside the law feel the sanction of central or local government. Somehow agriculture feels it is exempt from this sanction.

          Plenty of agencies can enter a property without a search warrant. Many acts give warrant powers to government officials (both central and local) to gather evidence and enforce. Worksafe and council building, planning and health as examples. MPI already have extensive warrant power.

          • dV 2.2.1.1.1
            17 August 2018 at 10:24 am

            It seems to me that BEFORE ANY compensation is paid the farmer HAS to show compliance with NAIT

          • Chris T 2.2.1.1.2
            17 August 2018 at 10:43 am

            I have no doubt there are dodgy ones

            But this doesn’t show why there should be entrance and seizure without authority

            • Graeme 2.2.1.1.2.1
              17 August 2018 at 10:49 am

              Entry would be under the authority of the act. Plenty of existing examples of that already.

            • dukeofurl 2.2.1.1.2.2
              17 August 2018 at 10:59 am

              Police can use Misue of Drugs Act to act without a warrant
              http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1975/0116/82.0/DLM436101.html

              But if they have been gathering information for some time a standard warrant is not an issue to get.

              They can get your phone records/bank records without warrants now , as its done under the ‘maintenance of law and order’. Doesnt even need evidence of a crime in the first place

              • Chris T …
                17 August 2018 at 11:03 am

                So you are putting farmers in the same class as drug dealers

                Thanks

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  17 August 2018 at 12:56 pm

                  That’s how they act so doing so seems reasonable.

                • Sabine …
                  17 August 2018 at 5:15 pm

                  Any business that serves food can be inspected without notice, will have to have a food safety plan ready upon demand, training notices on staff etc etc. Failure to provide demanded documentation, failure to strict adherence to the food safety plan can and will result in fines, downgrading of the business etc.

                  that is usually how the non compliant businesses are caught.

                  Now why should farmers be exempt from this?
                  Maybe the farmer should welcome this action, so that the ‘rotten apples’ which are only a few here and there of course, can be found and kicked out of the box before all the other apples go rotten too.

                  Farming is a business and as such you have good an bad farmers. Farmers are no more special then any other proffession in this country. They are no more and no less ‘real NZ’ then any other Kiwi who happens to not work in farming.
                  They are no more and no less prone to abusing the system then others in other profession.

                  Maybe its time Farmers understand that they actually demand special status in a country where two thirds of people literally are too poor to buy their butter and milk.

                  Also how much tax payers moneys is going to be squandered on M Bovis clean up? The very least the taxpayer who is not a farmer but is having funds used to dig them out of their own cow shite is that the farmers might have to open for inspections day and night.

              • greywarshark …
                17 August 2018 at 2:42 pm

                All business people these days are on drugs! The drug is profit, and more profit. Very addictive and many will go the extra mile to get the moolah, on or off farms, Queen Street farmers and lawyers, building companies and anywhere there is money to be made. And if they make a success of their business, they will sell it, because it is the money drug they want, not just a good living for themselves and family.

            • McFlock 2.2.1.1.2.3
              17 August 2018 at 1:40 pm

              Labour inspectors have some interesting powers.

              And that’s without even getting into the Health Act, which is damned near totalitarian. Even the routine admin stuff, rather than the outbreak emergency controls.

        • joe90 2.2.1.2
          17 August 2018 at 12:18 pm

          Police need a warrant to raid a gang pad full of drug dealers,

          Best you familiarise yourself with the Search and Surveillance Act 2012.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.3
          17 August 2018 at 12:53 pm

          They are farmers, not criminals

          The problem being that many are criminals – they just haven’t been caught yet.

        • greywarshark 2.2.1.4
          17 August 2018 at 2:37 pm

          It is not an excuse Chris T – it is a reason.
          Farmers will have to put up and shut uop. They have consistently gone light on following the right practices, and not taken responsibility for controlling those who have made no or little effort to manage their businesses ethically.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.5
          17 August 2018 at 4:38 pm

          That is a piss poor excuse to try to justify this change

          No. It’s a perfectly valid reason for this change. We need to protect ourselves from these people.

        • KJT 2.2.1.6
          18 August 2018 at 7:51 am

          Farmers that didn’t follow the movement rules, to avoid taxes, are criminals.
          Currently costing us all, more than the gangs did.

      • Cinny 2.2.2
        17 August 2018 at 9:17 am

        Agree 100% Riffer

    • Robert Guyton 2.3
      17 August 2018 at 9:07 am

      Is it not true that MPI have to observe all rules that cover farms now? That would mean health and safety requirements such as reporting to the farmer first and being excluded from the farmhouse, and so on, as is normal?

      • veutoviper 2.3.1
        17 August 2018 at 11:52 am

        Just as Union Officials must do when entering a farm to visit an union member, as Jacinda spent several question times pointing out to Simon in the House over the last two weeks. But I divert … Sorry …

    • Cinny 2.4
      17 August 2018 at 9:13 am

      Fisheries officers have been doing it for years. What’s the difference?

      How does it go….. nothing to hide, nothing to fear…

      • ianmac 2.4.1
        17 August 2018 at 2:33 pm

        I think Electricity Providers and Telephone Providers have right of Entry to your home. They used to have that right. Still so?

    • Marcus Morris 2.5
      17 August 2018 at 9:18 am

      You’ve read the article from “Stuff” published last December then. The protocol seems reasonable to me considering the threat that myrtle rust presents to the horticulture industry. Pity about your language – doesn’t suggest a great range of vocabulary.

    • marty mars 2.6
      17 August 2018 at 10:30 am

      Lol – you are dead to me – ott buddy

    • dukeofurl 2.7
      17 August 2018 at 10:55 am

      “Fuck you labour .giving mpi the right to enter any farm without a warrant??”

      That would be under existing biosecurity rules, just as Police can enter without a warrant in certain circumstances -misuse of drugs act etc. and SIS can burgle your place without warrants

    • veutoviper 2.8
      17 August 2018 at 12:41 pm

      Ok, a lot of speculation going on here – including my own in this comment.

      I really have not followed this closely but my understanding is that the changes to the National Animal Identification and Tracing Act are to realign it with the Search and Surveillance Act which was adopted under the National Government in 2012. This realignment has become urgent due to the M. Bovis emergency and the lack of compliance – by a few – with the NAIT requirements.

      Here is the Bill Digest giving an outline of the Amendment Bill and its purpose:
      https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/bills-and-laws/bills-digests/document/52PLLaw25631/national-animal-identification-and-tracing-amendment-bill

      A quick troll through the Hansard records of the debates in the House on the Amendment Bill in the last few days seems to confirm my comments above.

      https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/bills-and-laws/bills-proposed-laws/document/BILL_78997/tab/hansard

      If you only read the The third reading debate, the last item in the list in the link (in particular Damian O’Connor’s background speech), and the first item in the list (the last debate yesterday) this will give a pretty good outline of the situation and the ‘faux’ outrage from the Opposition led by Nathan Guy. In the last item in the list, Mark Patterson of NZF, himself a farmer, gives a good explanation of the need for urgency – as does Gareth Hughes.

      The Bill passed its third reading unanimously – with all Parties including National passing it and no Nos – at 1.08 mins in this video.

      https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20180816_20180816_12/tab/video?page=2

      So, sorry bwaghorn – I don’t know who you are going to vote for in the future.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.9
      17 August 2018 at 1:11 pm

      Why should farmers be allowed to commit criminal acts?

      • bwaghorn 2.9.1
        17 August 2018 at 5:15 pm

        All these lefties would be scanning blue murder if the govt decided winz could rock into a solo parents house to make sure they are living alone

        • McFlock 2.9.1.1
          17 August 2018 at 5:17 pm

          Because benefit fraud is the same as spreading disease throughout the sector?

          • bwaghorn 2.9.1.1.1
            17 August 2018 at 5:27 pm

            A warrant would not be hard to get
            Fucking hypocrites.

            • McFlock 2.9.1.1.1.1
              17 August 2018 at 5:36 pm

              If a warrant isn’t hard to get, it defeats the purpose of having a warrant system in the first place.

              Basically, let’s say an inspector comes to the farm gate looking for noncompliant cows. You say “fuck off”, and while they’re off getting a warrant you truck any non-compliant cows to another location. Not only is a warrant ineffecive, it actually motivates the transmission of diseases the noncompliant cows might have.

              Now let’s look at a single parent living alone – the presence of a person doesn’t indicate a cohabiting relationship. That requires a long term pattern to be established. So immediate powers to enter without warrant are a bit pointless in that case, no?

              It’s not hypocrisy to recognise that the same protection that prevents unnecessary invasion in one instance is actually counterproductive in another.

              • bwaghorn …
                17 August 2018 at 6:01 pm

                Do you have any proof farmers are hiding infected animals?
                The main problem with it being traced was caused because young calves could be legally shifted without nait tags .
                But hay it’s only farmers and this government got elected by playing the wedge politics card against them so why should I be surprised.

                • McFlock …
                  17 August 2018 at 6:18 pm

                  That’s why we have inspectors.
                  We have a load of proof that farmers won’t control infections by themselves.

                  No, it’s not only farmers. Several organisations don’t need warrants – the health sector is significantly more powerful than the justice sector in that regard.

                  You’re just pissed because your industry is being held accountable for its abject failure to protect itself, and now the government needs to clean up the mess.

                  • Graeme …
                    17 August 2018 at 9:30 pm

                    I think bwaghorn had a very difficult day at work yesterday because he got it for being a leftie and supporting the pretty communist that’s going to chuck farmers off their farms. It wasn’t a good day to be a leftie on a farm yesterday. The bullshit was flowing strong.

                    But really it was only the seriously dodgy side of framing throwing a spaz that it’s going to be a lot harder to do the dodgy stock sales and movements now that NAIT is much tighter and actually enforced.

                    The actual political situation was pointed out by veutoviper in 2.8 above https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-17-08-2018/#comment-1514840
                    The third reading passed unanimously, with all parties speaking in support. Including National.

                    • bwaghorn …
                      17 August 2018 at 9:59 pm

                      Nice fantasy chump . .
                      I’ve been in sheep and beef for 8 years and havent seen any one actively rout nait . Slow to take up yes but every cattle beast I’ve sent off since nait arrived has had a nait tag in its ear . And every one that has come on has had a nait tag in its ear .
                      But you clowns believe what you hateful little minds want .
                      In two years labour will realise it’s lost the fight on mb . The chance of stopping it is long gone thanks to the useless nats . .
                      I’ll have to hope top hangs in their

                    • McFlock …
                      17 August 2018 at 10:06 pm

                      Actually, from a disease control perspective, unless it has an endemic wildlife vector in the way that TB has, eradication of a virus from a controlled population only requires tracking to identify exposed animals, even without a vaccine.

                      Guinea worm comes to mind.

                  • bwaghorn …
                    18 August 2018 at 10:56 am

                    Do you know how hard mb is to track . Our local very up to date vet told us at a recent meeting it can only be found when an animal is shedding cells . It only sheds cell sporadically.

                    • McFlock …
                      18 August 2018 at 2:19 pm

                      That only effects the math in the same way a longer incubation time effects the math.

                      If I have ubiquitous surveillance of a population, any positive test means I can track exactly which individuals had transmission-likely contact with the infected individual. So all of those other individuals get tested or quarantined or (in the case of livestock) culled.

                      A few iterations of that, and the disease is eradicated. The only factor that changes is the number of iterations – how much effort we put into it.

                • Marcus Morris …
                  17 August 2018 at 10:58 pm

                  “Wedge Politics” – what a joke- it was the clowns in Morrinsville, led by the “Jolly old Fed of Farmers” who played the wedge card – will never forget the image of “Worzle Gummige” holding up the “pretty communist” placard. Desperate measures by sore losers. Labour’s Agriculture Ministers from Aubrey Begg and beyond have all been respected by the farming community even though it stuck in ts craw to admit it.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  18 August 2018 at 1:56 am

                  But hay it’s only farmers and this government got elected by playing the wedge politics card against them so why should I be surprised.

                  You do understand that that would only work if people were really pissed off with the actions of farmers right?

                  You know, things like polluting our waterways, getting special treatment from government, not being prosecuted when they should be etcetera.

                  Basically, the farmers brought it on themselves by being a bunch of self-righteous, self-important and overly entitled arseholes.

                  Just like you’re being now.

        • solkta 2.9.1.2
          17 August 2018 at 5:29 pm

          What is it that these farmers are doing with their cows?

        • Robert Guyton 2.9.1.3
          17 August 2018 at 6:00 pm

          They can’t go into the farmer’s house without a warrant.

  3. Jenny 3
    17 August 2018 at 7:07 am

    Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity. ~Horace Mann

    “Coal is responsible for as much atmospheric carbon dioxide as other fossil fuels combined and it still has far greater reserves. We must stop using it.”
    James Hansen

    https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/james_hansen

    Australia Hits Worst Greenhouse Gas Emissions On Record
    https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/12/australia-hits-worst-greenhouse-gas-emissions-on-record/

    Australia world’s largest coal exporter
    US Energy Information Administration, EIA – November 25, 2011

    This Must Stop – New Zealand has a role to play.

    Australia is our closest geographical neighbor, Australia is also our closest cultural cousin.

    What we do here in New Zealand, has an impact in Australia.

    You better believe it
    Sir Peter, (Professor), Gluckman, the government’s top science adviser, has said that New Zealand’s greatest contribution to fighting climate change, will be by “setting an example”.

    In my opinion that example must be for New Zealand to strike an iconic death blow against the local coal industry.

    If we can’t do it, how can we ask our Australian neighbours and cultural cousins to?

    The very least, we need to do, is urgently impose an immediate moratorium on the opening of all new coal mines.
    Our other regional neighbours in the Pacific have called on New Zealand and Australia to put a total stop to all coal production.

    Pacific leaders call for coal mining to be shut down to save island nations from effects of climate change
    Eric Tlozek – ABC News, September 8, 2015

    The leaders of some of the world’s smallest nations have called for coal mining — one of Australia’s biggest industries — to be shut down, in a bid to save their countries from the effects of climate change.

    The Alliance of Small Island States (AOSIS), which includes Pacific Ocean countries like Tuvalu and Palau, said global warming was already harming their people.

    The AOSIS said it wanted a moratorium on new coal mines, but was realistic about its chances of convincing Australia to give up its lucrative fossil fuel assets.

    Tuvalu prime minister Enele Sopoaga is the new chair of the group.

    “We’re simply seeking for the rights of small island states to survive,” he said.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-08/pacific-island-nations-want-to-shut-down-coal-mining/6756958

    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has said that climate change is our Nuclear Free Moment.

    Prime Minister Ardern needs to make it our Coal Free Moment.

    Anything less, is surrender.

    Another great leader once said, “We don’t do these things because they are easy, we do them because they are hard”.

    And from an earlier era, another Prime Minister, facing up to existential crisis – Said this:

    “You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.”

    Winston Churchill, speech in the House of Commons, after taking office as Prime Minister (13 May 1940).

    The Uninhabitable Earth
    Famine, economic collapse, a sun that cooks us: What climate change could wreak — sooner than you think.

    David Wallace-Wells – New York Magazine, July 10, 2017

    It is, I promise, worse than you think. If your anxiety about global warming is dominated by fears of sea-level rise, you are barely scratching the surface of what terrors are possible, even within the lifetime of a teenager today…..

    …..absent a significant adjustment to how billions of humans conduct their lives, parts of the Earth will likely become close to uninhabitable, and other parts horrifically inhospitable, as soon as the end of this century.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html

    Mum, When you were Prime Minister. What did you do about climate change?

  4. Jenny 4
    17 August 2018 at 7:21 am

    The immortal Aretha Franklin.

  5. WILD KATIPO 5
    17 August 2018 at 7:33 am

    Oh bloody hell !… its morning again,… ugh…

  6. dV 6
    17 August 2018 at 7:44 am

    re Bridges Expenses And it also forgets, bizarrely, that the car he was in is charged out at a far
    Hosking reports this

    And it also forgets, bizarrely, that the car he was in is charged out at a far reater rate than it is for government ministers. So if you compared apples with apples the bill probably wasn’t that dramatic at all.

    Is that correct?

    • Chris T 6.1
      17 August 2018 at 8:48 am

      Oppo’ do pay a higher rate apparently

      Have no idea why.

      Seems a bit stupid to me

    • dukeofurl 6.2
      17 August 2018 at 11:07 am

      Thats because he likely had a crown limo and driver tag along for his regions tour.

      Not only do you get the standard rate but its PLUS accomodation costs

      Limos arent in every town and city. Mostly the bigger ones with I think one car based in Dunedin but a few more in Christchurch, more again in Auckland and a big chunk in Wellington. There may be one or 2 in waikato etc.

      As well when there isnt a car available they have private limos on call and they might be on a ‘spot’ rate and higher than the standard crown limo rate

      • Cinny 6.2.1
        17 August 2018 at 11:48 am

        Just heard on the wireless… simons crown limo rides are charged out at twice the rate of Ministers. Thanks for explaining a bit more Duke as to why that would be.

        Find it hard to believe that he didn’t know this before his ‘road’ trip.
        It’s something all of us consider when planning a ‘road trip’ … the cost of the journey.

        He could have flown in then asked the local MP to drive him around.
        Or were local nat MP’s also enjoying looking fancy in the limo?

        • alwyn 6.2.1.1
          17 August 2018 at 3:43 pm

          Everything Duke said applies equally to Ministers.
          If Winston, for example was to turn up in Hastings to go to the races he is certainly going to expect to have a Limo there for him.
          It still doesn’t seem to be any rationale for the double rate for the Leader of the Opposition or for the Speaker.

          The higher rate is only mentioned in the expenses returns for this year. I wonder if it was put in, probably at Winston’s request, so that it would make the Leader of the Opposition look extravagant? Knowing what Winston is like it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest.
          It certainly seems to have worked. Look at all the people on this site who are rabbiting on about how Bridges is supposedly more extravagant than Little or Ardern were. He isn’t, it is just a little smear tactic by the current Coalition of Losers who have fiddled the accounting rules to make it look like that..

  7. Ad 7
    17 August 2018 at 8:02 am

    Anyone here going to the Green Party AGM?

    • alwyn 7.1
      17 August 2018 at 10:50 am

      I understand that all the MPs have been ordered to attend.
      The problem they have is getting the 2 other people they need to get a quorum.

      • Bearded Git 7.1.1
        17 August 2018 at 12:20 pm

        Aren’t you thinking of the Association of C*nts and Tossers?

        • McFlock 7.1.1.1
          17 August 2018 at 2:56 pm

          Their broom closet was packed shoulder to shoulder

        • alwyn 7.1.1.2
          17 August 2018 at 3:21 pm

          The first part anyway.
          “Association of C*nts”.
          Hasn’t the XX chromosome co-leader of the Green’s copyrighted this name for the Green Party?

          • Gabby 7.1.1.2.1
            17 August 2018 at 4:36 pm

            Relieved to learn you believe in chromysomies wally, they’re not the Devil’s Slinkies after all then.

            • alwyn 7.1.1.2.1.1
              17 August 2018 at 4:40 pm

              I’ve never heard of “chromysomies” Gobby.
              I presume they are some product of your warped imagination.
              I know about chromosomes though.

            • McFlock 7.1.1.2.1.2
              17 August 2018 at 5:11 pm

              “Devil’s Slinkies” got a chuckle here 🙂

    • The Chairman 7.2
      17 August 2018 at 12:38 pm

      I’m unable to personally attend. But I’m hopeful there will be discussion on what the Greens are doing to help the poor offset new environmental charges (such as significantly increasing tip fees) the Greens are championing.

    • Bewildered 7.3
      17 August 2018 at 3:21 pm

      Na stop going when they cancelled the folk dancing and applied a dress, make up, hair and use of deroderant code 😊

  8. greywarshark 8
    17 August 2018 at 8:35 am

    A 92 year old in a rest home with little covering urine soaked bedclothes and covered with something fairly thin and window open.
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018658500/govt-needs-to-intervene-in-aged-care-patient-s-son

    There is momentary concern that will die away till the next open complaint.

    This will have a contradictory on the call for euthanasia. Instead of bringing in a principled matter for choice, all the authorities involved will resist fiercely saying that what is required is better care and that presently it is a disgrace.

    The nostalgic past is our zeitgeist in today’s society. Plus ‘shoulds’ as a way to cope with problems that require action by government in line with expressed wishes from the citizens. And a response to the statistics concerning population bulges and mismatched spending so it is more on the old than the young who are being starved of funding and attention to their needs at the start of what should be their full, active life.

    • Pat 8.1
      17 August 2018 at 8:45 am

      yet another example of regulatory capture

    • SaveNZ 8.2
      17 August 2018 at 11:06 am

      What is also interesting is that the family went to some disputes tribunal to get the award (aka I think it’s their rest home fee’s refunded) but health and disability and the rest home industry are all ok with poor conditions and poorly trained staff even though people (or the state) are paying in excess of $1000 a week for care that they obviously expect to be quality for their loved one? No wonder the rest home industry seem to have one of the highest returns on the share market when you just put a few poorly trained and cheap people in and the regulators seem to say it’s optional to attending to the patients needs promptly.

      • SaveNZ 8.2.1
        17 August 2018 at 11:17 am

        Speaking of complaints here is the top ten companies complained about to the commerce commission. (from Granny) Other companies like power and banking I think have their own complaints bodies and are regulated to be allowed to rip off customers which is probably why nobody bothers to complain anymore.

        Revealed: New Zealand’s most complained about companies

        Viagogo
        Vodafone
        Spark
        Foodstuffs
        2 Degrees
        Woolworths
        Air New Zealand
        Noel Leeming
        Wilsons parking
        Sky
        vocus
        The Warehouse
        The corporate portal
        Trade Me
        Harvey Norman
        Brand developers
        Ticketmaster
        Luxstyle Apps
        Contact energy
        NZ post

        • Cinny 8.2.1.1
          17 August 2018 at 11:49 am

          I wonder if they are the ones who feel that business confidence is down?

          If so, maybe their customer service needs addressing instead.

        • tc 8.2.1.2
          17 August 2018 at 1:04 pm

          No surprises to see retail telco high up and in numbers on that list.

          Vodafone would be probably top if their customers had stayed to complain. The fact they were allowed to Hoover up the fibre links of Telstraclear and drive that into the dust is a total fail in terms of retail v wholesale segregation.

          Watch that space as the race to the bottom gathers pace.

    • Rosemary McDonald 8.3
      17 August 2018 at 1:21 pm

      Maybe later, if I can organize 240V power supply and access to the internet, I’d really like to to have an in depth discussion about the link between the current wording of the euthanasia bill and the very real possibility that those who need a high level of hands on care will, out of despair, feel obliged to request the blue juice.

      I personally believe that all debate about euthanasia should be suspended until we sort out the serious problems with providing safe care for disabled and elderly.

      Maybe later.

      • veutoviper 8.3.1
        17 August 2018 at 1:35 pm

        Hi Rosemary, did you hear the two interviews that Kathryn Ryan on Nine to Noon has had in the last two days on the wording of the Euthanasia Bill? Well worth a listen if you can.

        Yesterday was two members of the Australian Advisory Board who are in NZ at present:
        https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018658341/proposed-euthanasia-bill-in-nz-needs-tweaking

        Today it was Paula Tesoriero, the Disability Commissioner, who has very grave concerns re the current wording.

        https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018658517/assisted-dying-bill-undermines-disabled-people

        • Rosemary McDonald 8.3.1.1
          17 August 2018 at 5:38 pm

          Peripherally listened yesterday…was totally engrossed and cheering Paula on as we were hurtling towards Kaitaia this morning.

          FWIW, IMHO, Paula Tesoriero has really stepped up to the role of Disabilities Commissioner. She had large shoes to fill, taking over from Paul Gibson.

          Over the rattle of the diesel, I’m sure I heard her talk about the despair some living with disability experience when trying to access vital funded supports.

          And then some numpty contacted Natrad saying Paula had no place speaking on behalf of all disabled…”and if he were disabled” etc etc…. The short answer to numpty would be stfu until you have actually lived with a significant disability for an appreciable amount of time..then comment.

          For many, the thought of being disabled, of being dependent on others for sometimes the most basic of cares, is beyond comprehension and they will state categorically they would rather be dead.

          Extrapolating, they would see those who do need that level of support as what? A burden on society? A waste of vital resources? That they should do the ‘decent thing’ and check out? Because they, in their limited experience and even more limited imagination, could not envisage any kind of worthwhile life without all their functions intact.

          The situation right now for those who require a reasonably high level of support is dire. And I do not exaggerate. The story of the old lady lying in her own pee is not rare. Stories of disabled and vulnerable elderly being neglected and abused (sometimes unto death) are tragically not unusual or isolated.

          And what Robert Love was saying about the inadequacies of the complaints and monitoring processes is sadly correct.

          https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018658500/govt-needs-to-intervene-in-aged-care-patient-s-son

          ‘Who watches the watches?’

          ACC claimants have rights and entitlements enshrined by law. Those with need for supports who are not covered by ACC, who are under MOH:DSS or a DHB, have no entitlements and few rights. A bureaucrat can decide that such and such will not be provided and there is no avenue of complaint. Serious incidents of inadequate care that leads to harm or death can take years to wend their way through the Health and Disability Commission complaints process…and seldom result in prosecution.

          (NB…Paula Tesoriero is attached to the Human Rights Commission not the Health and Disability Commission. )

          The whole system is dysfunctional and treats users with little or no respect.

          The current disability System Transformation which is marketed as solving all such problems is superficial window dressing being rolled out in yet another pilot with a full roll out nationwide not expected for nearly another decade.

          And this System Transformation does not, and this is specifically stated in the System Transformation documentation, give users any entitlement to the supports they need.

          This is unacceptable in a country that has given a select group of disabled citizens such entitlement.

          The disparities, the gross inequities between ACC and others is a stain on New Zealand and until this is addressed, there should be no discussion of euthanasia outside of definite terminal illness at all.

          And having said that, I’d be tempted to make it a further condition to progressing this Bill that this crappy little travesty is sorted.

          https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018618748/hospices-deprived-of-strong-painkillers-due-to-safety-concerns

          • veutoviper 8.3.1.1.1
            18 August 2018 at 1:11 pm

            Re Paula Tesoreiro, I too have a lot of respect for her as we worked in the same government department some years ago and worked together on one or two issues. Top notch intellectually, more than able and willing to stand her ground, and a lovely person as well. I knew she would do well as Disability Commissioner (as you say within the HRC) – and sadly despite the recent problems within that agency.

            I am well aware and have major concerns re the existing problems for those with disabilities, in poverty etc. As I think I have mentioned before, I too have disabilities and I and my doctors have been hitting our heads against a brick wall in getting me some support.

            However, personally I do think we need to have the euthanasia discussion despite these other situations – but I am definitely not convinced that the bill as it is currently drafted is in any way acceptable for many of the reasons raised by Paula, and others including yourself.

  9. dV 9
    17 August 2018 at 9:06 am

    Thanks.
    Got a number?
    Reply to ChrisT 6.1

  10. Puckish Rogue 10
    17 August 2018 at 9:22 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/106338625/nz-first-mps-could-end-up-300k-out-of-pocket-if-they-flout-party-rules

    ‘NZ First’s constitution states any of its MPs who resign or are expelled from the party are personally liable for up to $300,000 if they don’t leave Parliament immediately.

    The clause states if the MP is either an electorate MP or a list MP, they have up to three days to vacate their seat in Parliament, or pay up.’

    One way to make sure plebs (sorry MPs) toe the line winston wants I guess

    • corodale 10.1
      17 August 2018 at 9:43 am

      So is that the market price of an MP? I like the transparency of this NZ1st team. If a housing contract has a value of… 😉

    • AB 10.2
      17 August 2018 at 10:24 am

      Or maybe it’s just a way of ensuring that the voters don’t get their intentions overturned by Nats and Nat cronies throwing their (copious) money around to turn MPs against their own parties?
      So in a sense, you could see it as keeping money out of politics. Protecting the voters from National Party money in effect.
      Winston, having once been inside the tent, probably has a better understanding of the dark heart of National than most. And this attack on him looks like another nail in the coffin of any future Nat-NZF coalition. Dumb politics from National.

    • You_Fool 10.3
      17 August 2018 at 11:07 am

      So this is why I don’t vote the WinnieFirst party… but how is it news exactly? I mean each party has its own internal processes, isn’t that like part of the deal of a democracy? That we have a wide range of ideas that come together and get mixed and debated and we get a good output? I mean who didn’t know that the WinnieFirst party was all about Winston?

      next you will be telling us that ACT are a go nowhere party that are too controlled by self-interest business people and are in no way a liberal party, which they have just cottoned onto and want to change to the far-right populist party of the rich

      • Puckish Rogue 10.3.1
        17 August 2018 at 12:08 pm

        Well when you look at “waka jumping” its mostly (not always) happens to NZFirst, why?

        What is about NZFirst that makes this happen, maybe instead of trying to charge someone 300 grand (which I don’t think would stand up in court) maybe NZFirst should see whats happening internally

        • You_Fool 10.3.1.1
          17 August 2018 at 2:24 pm

          I think most of us know why, NZF is a populist party, which revolves around Winston. And yes that means what Winston says goes, who doesn’t know that? but then that is how it started and is the basis of policy. I actually trust Winston to do what he says, with the cravat that he really says he will do anything with any real certainty, so he can normally find a way to twist what he said into what he actually did…

          Waka-jumping isn’t only NZF of course, and really this is all a bit of a smoke-screen around the troubles of ACT and the inability of National to not look deeply divided.

  11. corodale 11
    17 August 2018 at 9:45 am

    Food quality around Europe is mixed, bit down. The cows haven’t got so much grass, but they will be getting feed the dodgy potatoes, ya might say.

    • corodale 11.1
      17 August 2018 at 9:53 am

      The weather is affecting land prices, not. Land prices continue to rise with QE.

      Actually the Left Party in Germany have made a popularist policy suggestion regarding agricultural lease prices. If there is no income coming from the land due to drought, then farmers should be able to escape paying the full price to the land owner. Govt will have to rule on it, which will be a bit complex. Actually this one goes back to the bible, as an option to just pay a percent of your harvest to the land owner.

      • Gosman 11.1.1
        17 August 2018 at 9:55 am

        What a fundamentally stupid idea. If people can’t make a decent living from the land they need to stop doing what they are doing and do something else.

        • corodale 11.1.1.1
          17 August 2018 at 8:50 pm

          Yeah, farmers are better off working in factories where the pay is better. Why eat food, when we could simply eat the poor?

    • corodale 11.2
      17 August 2018 at 10:01 am

      Yeah, time to reduce herd size a bit and build up feed reserves. Organic requires larger feed reserves, as they usually have less maize and grain which are more market accessible.

      Getting one step ahead of the game seems to be the biggest barrier to organic conversion. Similar with cropping, as cropping is generally dependent on manure from animals. Could say the same regarding debt ratio, requiring more reserves to weather conversion.

  12. Anne 12
    17 August 2018 at 10:04 am

    Simon Bridges tried to poach Ron Mark and a couple of other NZ First MPs according to Winston Peters:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12108668

    Bridges denies it:

    “This is yet more fake news from Winston Peters. I don’t think I’ve even had a conversation with Ron Mark this year let alone made any suggestions to him.

    So, did he make the approach late last year instead. 😉

    Edit: I know he wasn’t leader of the Nats until Feb of this year, but that needn’t stop him from having a go.

    • Kevin 12.1
      17 August 2018 at 10:27 am

      Doing the ground work late last year. Understandable.

      Exactly what those who aspire to his job are doing right now.

    • marty mars 12.2
      17 August 2018 at 10:33 am

      “Mark did not return a call for comment but in a text message said “Wow, how did you find out about that.” ”

      LOL – time to stop telling untruths Simon you dumbarse.

      • alwyn 12.2.1
        17 August 2018 at 10:57 am

        Memo to Ron Mark.
        Don’t try using Irony.
        People like Marty don’t understand it and think you are being serious.
        Stick to using your middle finger.

        • marty mars 12.2.1.1
          17 August 2018 at 11:08 am

          Lol I don’t think you know what irony is – just cos it’s spelt i-ron-y doesn’t mean Ron marks did it.

          You could be a Rasta and saying I Ron irie but somehow i doubt that.

      • dukeofurl 12.2.2
        17 August 2018 at 11:10 am

        Notice Bridges is lying by saying didnt have a conversation

        Doesnt mean he didnt have a chat or a few words or that other situation: ‘a discussion’
        Bridges needs to learn form Trump – lie big, little lies dont change anything

    • dukeofurl 12.3
      17 August 2018 at 11:15 am

      Normally these sort of things arent done by the party leaders, to give them deniability.
      But as you mention Bridges was ‘a go to guy’ until he became leader in Feb.

    • SaveNZ 12.4
      17 August 2018 at 11:20 am

      @Anne, we all know it is only a matter of time before the Natz try to bribe individual MP’s to destable the government. It’s worked for them before.

      • Puckish Rogue 12.4.1
        17 August 2018 at 12:11 pm

        Interesting that Winston mentions this after the good behaviour bond comes out, diversion by any chance?

        • ianmac 12.4.1.1
          17 August 2018 at 2:44 pm

          “Ron Mark backs Winston Peters on approach Simon Bridges made to him.”
          OOps Simon old chap.

          “Ron Mark says National leader Simon Bridges talked to him about a deal during a flight earlier this year, contradicting Bridges’ claim no such approach was made.

          “It’s true. Simon and I were next to each other on a flight from Auckland to Wellington in May. He bought it up out of the blue during a conversation we were having.”

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12108791

          • Puckish Rogue 12.4.1.1.1
            17 August 2018 at 2:53 pm

            300 grand hanging over your head would make anyone say whatever Winston wants them to say

            • marty mars 12.4.1.1.1.1
              17 August 2018 at 3:25 pm

              No puck it is the dirty filthy wee gnat bumbling idiot simon that has been caught out AGAIN – whats that about 3 times this week so far?

              • Puckish Rogue …
                17 August 2018 at 3:31 pm

                Yeah I’m not particularly interested in what Ron “happy for the media to describe him ex-SAS” Mark has to say

                https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11956076

                NZ First leader Winston Peters is asking why Mark didn’t simply follow the instructions he was given.

                Mark isn’t offering any answers. He did not respond to requests for an interview and did not answer questions. A spokesman said: “This matter has now been dealt with and we consider it closed.”

                • marty mars …
                  17 August 2018 at 3:48 pm

                  Well did he or didnt he follow unstructions this time – you seem a bit confused.

                  • Puckish Rogue …
                    17 August 2018 at 3:50 pm

                    Defence minister Ron Mark was specifically told he was breaking all the rules wearing his military medals but went ahead and did so anyway.

                    Documents show Mark was told on October 27 – just after being sworn in as Minister of Defence – that his rack of medals was a breach of protocol and rules.

                    The NZ First deputy leader went on wearing his medals until November 15 when the Herald revealed he was in breach of the regulations governing decorations.

                    Mark’s medals wrongly placed his Omani service in a position over prominence over his New Zealand service. Also, wearing the Omani medals wrongly suggested he had the required permission from the Governor General’s to wear a foreign decoration.

                    In the 20 days since Mark learned his medals were a breach of the Crown’s rules on decorations and honours, he wore them while standing in front of veterans, next to the Chief of Defence Force, with foreign leaders and while inspecting troops.

                    • ianmac …
                      17 August 2018 at 4:00 pm

                      So what Puck?

                    • Anne …
                      17 August 2018 at 4:20 pm

                      Stop trying to divert attention PR. You’re usually better than that.

                      Who cared a damm – apart from a bunch of bureaucratic military pin prickers – what medals he wore and where he wore them. What a load of puerile nonsense.

                      Bridges took a leaf out of Trump’s book and tried to gerrymander the political stability of the country for personal political gain and then lied about it. An infinitely worse offence than a row of medals not in the right order.

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      17 August 2018 at 4:26 pm

                      “Who cared a damm”

                      It actually matters to a lot of people, it means something plus he ignored all advice when told what he was doing was incorrect

                      Hes the minister of defence, hes a former serving soldier, he damn well should be getting the absolute bare minimum correct

                      Ask him what he would have done if one of the soldiers under him had worn their uniform incorrectly on parade

                      It matters

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      17 August 2018 at 4:34 pm

                      But did Bridges try to poach Mark?

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      17 August 2018 at 4:34 pm

                      And later claim he hadn’t??

                    • Anne …
                      17 August 2018 at 4:48 pm

                      Ask him what he would have done if one of the soldiers under him had worn their uniform incorrectly on parade.

                      He wouldn’t have given a damm – unless they were wearing their jacket inside out or their pants back to front then he might have. 😀

                      It’s time the medal pin-prickers grew up and looked around them. There’s a big wide world needing urgent attention. My father had a heap of medals from two world wars but never wore them. He was more interested in the here and now.

                    • Exkiwiforces …
                      17 August 2018 at 6:07 pm

                      As an ex member of the NZDF, ADF and a veteran i couldn’t really give a rats ass, how old Ronnie wear his goddam gongs, yes there are grumpy old shell backs (usually they No Mates voters) who don’t have a life outside of the Forces, who have SFA to do but complain but do SFA to fix the problems. All I want from Ronnie is to stop the rot of the 30 odd yrs of under spending, neglect, and to provide better welfare/ conditions of service to Defence personal, Defence families and to the veterans now and into the future as they don’t have union to back them like the every other Government employee has.

                      If some old grizzle dick came up and told me I was wearing my gongs around the wrong way if I was the NZ MoD, then that I will ask this simple question.

                      What is more important my medals which I have one NZ gong (NZDM) among my other 9 or 10 gongs or the welfare issues of Defence members, underfunding issues of the NZDF or the welfare of Veterans?

                      If they say my NZDM is out of place, so you don’t give shit about NZDF or Veterans problems so piss off and get a life.

                      Had some muppet in NZ try and tell me last year “Your NZDM should be at the front and not a the rear of your row of medals as Foreign Medals are always to the rear etc etc?” My reply was “Ah you must be a National voter then?” He said yes and I’ll it leave to your imagination on the spray I give this muppet and his muppet mates in a pub in Dunedin.

            • Pat 12.4.1.1.1.2
              17 August 2018 at 7:17 pm

              no contract can breach the law…its unenforceable

  13. SaveNZ 13
    17 August 2018 at 11:31 am

    In bad news from Antartica,

    “The awful news that all but two penguin chicks have starved to death out of a colony of almost 40,000 birds is a grim illustration of the enormous pressure Antarctic wildlife is under. The causes of this devastating event are complex, from a changing climate to local sea-ice factors, but one thing penguins, whales and other marine life don’t need is additional strain on food supplies.

    Over the next year we have the opportunity to create an Antarctic Ocean Sanctuary – the largest protected area on Earth – which would put the waters off-limits to the industrial fishing vessels currently sucking up the tiny shrimp-like krill, on which all Antarctic life relies.”

    From
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/13/penguins-starving-death-something-very-wrong-antarctic

    • SaveNZ 13.1
      17 August 2018 at 11:36 am

      Here is a petition to the EU – Russia and China are the two main blockers

      https://secure.avaaz.org/en/antarctic_ocean_loc_fr_pa/?slideshow

    • Siobhan 13.2
      17 August 2018 at 12:29 pm

      I wonder how Australia feels about this, being the home of the CCAMLR.

      They seem very ‘upbeat’ about the scientific awesomeness of the management of the fisheries and its sustainability. They seem to have ‘forgotten’ to include a speaker to talk about the wider ecosystem.

      “A National Science Week (Australia) public seminar to help people understand the connections between commercially available krill products, human health claims and the biology and ecology of this tiny crustacean.
      Find out why Hobart is the global centre of krill science and krill fishery management and how each of the relevant institutions are connected through international scientific and government networks.
      Dr So Kawaguchi talked about his research on krill biology and ecology and Dr Laura Laslett discussed her research on the medicinal value of krill oil.
      Dr Keith Reid, Science Manager for CCAMLR, outlined how fishing for krill is regulated by this international body and how fishing limits are informed by the best available scientific studies on krill and their ecosystems.”

      https://www.ccamlr.org/en/fisheries/krill-fisheries-and-sustainability

    • marty mars 13.3
      17 August 2018 at 4:41 pm

      We are so fucked…

  14. The Chairman 14
    17 August 2018 at 12:24 pm

    There were 34 newcomers on the NBR Rich List this year – many of which made their fortunes in the grocery trade.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/106288425/supermarket-owners-banking-super-profits-nbr-rich-list-shows

    Meanwhile, figures from the Ministry of Social Development show 26,000 more hardship grants for food were given out compared with the June quarter last year. 

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018658324/surge-in-families-seeking-food-parcels.

    It will be interesting to see what impact Labour’s Family Package will have on the demand for hardship grants going forward.

    • Robert Guyton 14.1
      17 August 2018 at 1:30 pm

      Could we (please) link up the super-wealthy food purveyors, the supermarket barons, with the very poor needers of food and just let the former receive the needs of the latter, as an ongoing gesture of thanks for their good fortune, from those rich-listers?

      • Herodotus 14.1.1
        17 August 2018 at 1:56 pm

        And yet those who have made it to the list that are Pak n Sav owners can achieve this and still sell below the competitors ?
        And as someone who has a family member working there they pay above min wage and is treated well.
        Perhaps we should be asking their competitors why that is the case ??

        • SaveNZ 14.1.1.1
          17 August 2018 at 2:12 pm

          Good to hear Pak n Sav pay above min wage and treat staff well. One of the biggest reasons for NZ lack of productivity is that for 30 years the business community has been taught to get employee’s as cheap and subservient as possible, keep them on casual and temporary contracts or subcontractor contracts so there is not much loyalty, rip off customers and ‘confuse’ them and then they wonder why there are worker and skills “shortages” and they are falling behind the rest of the world in productivity and customer services!!! Doh!

          Look at Germany, they make things, and they have strong worker rights, pay higher wages and employ educated people (free university education in Germany). Unfortunately NZ decided to go down the Asian path of high inequality and low wages combined with western neoliberalism and government privatisations and deregulation.

          Judging from what’s happening the penny hasn’t dropped yet for most NZ business and government that they are about to be out competed due to their incompetence and reliance of lowest common denominator and contempt for both consumer and employee and selling the country off for peanuts over the past decades.

          • greywarshark 14.1.1.1.1
            17 August 2018 at 2:28 pm

            Supermarkets may decide to screw their suppliers instead of their workers.
            Also they may limit what brands they will carry, so that turnover ratio targets must be met or you are out. They will drop good lines which are replaced by some from another country. They will copy a good selling line from a company and sell it under their own brand name. It may in fact still be made by the original company, I don’t know, but it is a way to smother innovated products and also prevent the other company from building its own brand and reputation.

            They can conduct phony wars against other supermarket chains. This was done a few years ago with milk, and the loss of profit was passed on also to the dairy suppliers. In Australia they have invoked nationalistic emotions and taken other country’s products off their shelves, which included ours.

            Everything is calculated, and the giant stores with their convenient parking are hard to compete against by small local business people forming part of the core local business enterprise. The money leaches out of local pockets and most of it flows onwards to others’ capital accretions.

            • SaveNZ 14.1.1.1.1.1
              17 August 2018 at 2:51 pm

              I agree with you greywarshark. Many on this site are very anti farmers, (and some with good reason) but primary producers are also people being screwed over by middle men, like supermarkets.

              Also with supermarkets they are cutting costs by for example not employing qualified butchers, but instead ring in orders of meat from a warehouse where it comes pre cut.

              The issue with this is, that the meat can be 3 months old and so they use a gas in the packaging to keep it looking fresh. They also have special lights etc so that the food looks better than it actually is in real life.

              When they analysed the food with gases which is used in other countries to keep food longer they found that a salad looked fresh, but had lost all it’s nutrition when packaged with the long life gases.

              So food can look fresh now, but actually be old and have zero nutritician but the consumers are being fooled.

              All this to make more and more profit while people are being ripped off nutrition from their own food!

        • The Chairman 14.1.1.2
          18 August 2018 at 9:14 am

          One would expect being lower priced than their competitors would see them attract more customers , thus make their money by selling more.

          And while they may pay above the minimum wage, they don’t pay the Living Wage.

    • SaveNZ 14.2
      17 August 2018 at 2:25 pm

      Good links The Chairman. Interesting so many making a fortune from just owning one supermarket. Maybe the commerce commission are a bit amiss when they dropped their investigation on Countdown – instead they need to search further a field.

      Also these firms are creaming the money, while often the employee’s are on poor working conditions and Close to minimum wages, aka the taxpayer (nurses and teachers for example) are then paying taxes like WFF and accomodation benefits for their employees wages while the supermarket owner makes the rich list! Something is wrong. Apparently a family on minimum wages with 2 kids needs a $5000 wage top up per family from the government to cover the short fall of wages.

      I’m not against people being rich, but it should not be on having poorly paid employees, corporate welfare and overcharging customers.

      • The Chairman 14.2.1
        18 August 2018 at 9:12 am

        Thanks SaveNZ. And as usual, some good points made by greywarshark and yourself.

        The sector is basically a duopoly, thus consumers, suppliers and employees are all being squeezed as the two dominant players thrive.

  15. Herodotus 15
    17 August 2018 at 2:11 pm

    I commented on this yesterday, and to Wayne you may find this of interest
    How the union is NOT supporting its own members, IMO NZEI your lack of representing “YOUR” members over the last 9 years and letting the Nat govts off lightly and making the current govt appear to be the enemy is highly embarrassing to say the least.
    Perhaps there is a need for performance pay for good teachers as the union is not working for them. “She wants to see the pay scale reflective of experience rather than qualification, and said there was a place for performance pay.” These teacher support the union how about the union returning the favour ?
    “Of more than 2500 responses, 66 per cent said they earned under $71,000, and dozens of commenters said they had also been locked out of progressing up the pay scale because they only held a diploma.”
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/106321443/teachers-with-40-years-experience-stuck-on-59600-because-of-pay-inequality

    • In Vino 15.1
      17 August 2018 at 10:21 pm

      Herodotus, I am a secondary school teacher, not an NZEI member. But I doubt that NZEI is going to undergo a membership collapse because of the tendentious argument you put that teacher unions betray good teachers by not approving of performance pay.
      All teachers have been underpaid, and before you even speak of performance pay, you need to pay a decent salary to all teachers first. I think tis is what NZEI is aiming at, and you are wasting your breath in trying to sow dissension.

      • Herodotus 15.1.1
        18 August 2018 at 9:06 am

        Try all those teachers who are paid $15-$17k below their fellow teachers for doing the same job.
        At my local school on Wednesday 40-50% of the teachers were at school. This is a school with a roll excessive of 700 primary students.
        It may be an isolated case. but it speaks of the support for the unions, and of those 5 are Q1 or Q2 level.
        So you say all teachers are underpaid, what about those who are severely underpaid ?? Or do you agree that Q1-4 should be on a similar pay scale ?

  16. Peroxide Blonde 16
    17 August 2018 at 2:22 pm

    Farage is on his way to a gig in Sky City where he will peddle Brexit.

    If you want “all I need to know about Brexit” in one video……………here it is:

  17. adam 17
    17 August 2018 at 4:36 pm

    I see facebook is now censoring the left. Oh well we get what we deserve, right? TeleSUR English page taken down again.

    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/08/telesur-english-facebook-censorship-news

    • One Two 17.1
      17 August 2018 at 6:23 pm

      People more often than not simply do not see the traps…and they walk right into them…

      Point out the traps…and get called names, abused or labelled into some or other plagiarized transplanted term…

      THE LEFT!

  18. weston 18
    17 August 2018 at 7:03 pm

    Strikes me that having an “Evening post “to go to as an extra venue for those that have to work in the day time could be good .While its interesting to get home from work switch on the comp and see whats been happening during the day on TS its also hard work scrolling thru whats usually hundreds of comments and half a doz posts .I often think wouldnt it be nice if there was a smaller space for those who only have the time for a couple of hours in the eve .In a sense the days activities and opinions are already “old news” by the end of the day .Might make a few more people come out of the woodwork also .

    • veutoviper 18.1
      18 August 2018 at 4:25 am

      That is what the Daily Review posts are for, Weston. These go up nightly at about 5.30pm Mon to Friday.

      • weston 18.1.1
        18 August 2018 at 10:29 am

        Thanks for replying vv but as much as open mike is oversubscribed especially by the same people {just saying }you could say daily review is under subscribed …i just thought something new might have the effect of capturing a bit more of the available market so to speak .. in fishermans terms if nothings biting change your bait or your method location etc .Dont get me wrong im in awe of a great many of the regulars and posters here and grateful the site exists and to everyone who makes it happen .

        • veutoviper 18.1.1.1
          18 August 2018 at 11:09 am

          I understand what you are saying re the size of OM vs DR, but it is my impression (rightly or wrongly) that the imbalance is a fairly recent phenomenon. The number of comments on OM certainly seems to be reaching record numbers, while the DR comment numbers seem to have gone down. I am one of those who have been around TS for many years and it is interesting how things change over time. Daily Review was introduced just a couple of years ago – cannot remember when exactly.

          Lots of things could have affected the comment distribution in recent months – eg being a post election year, loss of some authors with fewer separate posts, time of year (eg winter). Re the latter, I find that with age and retirement I am going to bed earlier in the evening but then wake up in the early hours and do what you are NOT supposed to do – reach for the IPAD. Hence my reply to you at 4.25am!

          Lprent probably has lots of information re changes in patterns etc but he is so hardworking and generous with his time, energy etc to keep TS going I would not like to ask him, especially now that he seems to spend a lot of time overseas with his paid work.

  19. Grafton Gully 19
    17 August 2018 at 7:30 pm

    Kris Faafoi is “committed to ensuring the wheels of commerce move smoothly and that New Zealand capitalises on every advantage it can to grow our economy, jobs wages and opportunities.”
    Sounds good, but actions speak louder than words and in Parliament he utters a snide, nasty remark about a fellow parliamentarian. His impulse to hurt and offend smudges his reputation as a Labour member.

  20. eco maori 20
    18 August 2018 at 9:59 am

    Let’s get this straight alcohol is run by big business who spend there lobbing mone to distort the true negative fact’s of there prouduct’s .
    Here you are It’s a man made chemical drug that will kill you instantly if you drink it to fast it can kill you slowly by over loading your liver the liver is the body’s filter no liver no life it has carcinogenic properties that cause cancer it over load’s our police work load every weekend as well as hospitals firefighters ambulance service and this all cost mone. People are killed every day because of this drug .
    Mean while mone talks about how our consumption of this drug has lowered by a quarter since the 1970 but what they have not said is the alcohol % have we drink have has gone up by at least 100% you see the 00.1 Are the fake it till you make it people they don’t care it there profits are directly linked to there products killing people of Papatuanuku and her creatures Ana to kai .
    Ka kite ano link is below

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/106343048/alcohol-harm-more-than-triple-the-cost-of-all-treaty-claims-so-far–economist

  21. eco maori 21
    18 August 2018 at 10:24 am

    Good morning Newshub Nation I totally agree with the lady how fake fact’s fake new’s it’s start’s grabbing te tangata reality the more tangata that are exposed to it and the more that start believing these lies the 00.1% have been doing this to us for century’s
    Look at the nose’s being cut off those beautiful statues in Egypt.
    And reducing our carbon use to at least – 99% of today’s use will make our country great and wealthy Ka kite ano P.S looking after our moko’s it;s busy time’s Eco supports the Green Party 100%

  22. eco maori 22
    18 August 2018 at 11:35 am

    The reality with these under cover sandfly is that there handler’s like to recruit the young people fresh out of police school why because they are easy to intimidate manipulate and mold there reality into believing that what there handler’s are telling them is true why don’t they hire people in there 30’s + to do this job well they have a better grasps on reality and are not as easy to sell lies to or intimidate into backing there corrupt move’s on te tangata How do I know this well this man’s story’s and a few other’s said they were recruited stright out of police school nice and easy to mold into the undercover system’s Greg O’Connor Ana to kai
    Ka kite ano P.S one of these people can not take his flash fishing boat out to sea because he is being Eco Maori shamed lol

  23. eco maori 23
    18 August 2018 at 12:49 pm

    There you go a good story to back up my wrath against The organization that make or use SUGAR in there prouduct’s link below Ka kite ano

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/aug/18/cases-of-type-2-diabetes-among-young-people-rise-41-in-three-years

  24. eco maori 24
    18 August 2018 at 1:35 pm

    You know what they had a soft drink and sweet’s machine all around the hospital what’s worse is they had one right out side the mokopuna’s ward this sugar vending machine’s should be banned from all hospitals Ka kite ano

  25. eco maori 25
    18 August 2018 at 1:48 pm

    I see the OIL baron are using there money to attack The Great Visionary Elon Mus credibility all over the media If the OIL baron get there way we will all be in the—–while they swim in there oil mone .
    Ka Kaha Elon nobody perfect E hoa you keep up your good work you are one of the many people who are going to change our energy system’s to green electricity carbon free energy
    Eco Maori supports you 100 % ka kite ano
    P.S unlike some other leader who is championing old failing energy carbon

  26. Eco Maori 26
    18 August 2018 at 5:50 pm

    Because of those wanker sandflys actions my Mokopunas is still suffering in pain do they give a shit no I will be laughing at them in a court house muppets and all these ashole that no what’s going on are just as bad as them

  27. Eco Maori 27
    18 August 2018 at 8:21 pm

    The Justice system serves the Wealthy a free pass or impunity this man bashed people knocked them on the ground and was still hitting them on the ground and he gets to fly back to Britain to play cricket what example does that set for the Mokopunas link below Ka kite ano

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/106272398/england-cricketer-ben-stokes-found-not-guilty-in-assault-trial

  28. Eco Maori 28
    18 August 2018 at 9:23 pm

    Well back get my Mokopuna checked once again at the lakes care and the smart ass sandflys send in one of there muppets red necks I wonder how the can sleep at nite the way they behave O that’s right the Sun shines out there elites ass and We are just savages Ka kite ano

  29. Eco Maori 29
    18 August 2018 at 10:50 pm

    Here is a great leader who we have lost I agree with his last speech at the head of the UN secretary General I see a pattern emerging I will let you know later link below Ka kite ano

    Kofi Annan, former UN secretary general, dies

  30. Eco Maori 30
    19 August 2018 at 12:16 am

    The sandflys don’t give a shit about there actions causeing my Mokopunas pain an suffering for weeks I don’t give a shit who get mud in there faces from now on anything I find on the net I’m going to throw it in there faces they are scared – – – – reap what you sow muppets Ana to kai P.S I at the hospital with my Mokopuna at the minute

  31. Eco Maori 31
    19 August 2018 at 1:16 am

    This is what Aotearoa would have started to look like if we did not ban foreign buyers from buying Property. The real estate mone men say that they were only a minority of buyers yea right Aotearoa real estate market is mone for jam if you can afford to play the games.
    Link below Ka kite ano

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/18/san-francisco-poop-problem-inequality-homelessness
    P.S I read 15 years ago that Aotearoa was going to be the home for the wealthy and famous it also priditived the homeless problem we got now

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