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Open mike 17/12/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 17th, 2020 - 52 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

52 comments on “Open mike 17/12/2020 ”

  1. Jester 1

    This is good that minimum wage is rising, but will people be better off, as prices will probably increase to cover the cost to businesses. I think they should have reduced the tax rate on income under $48k instead.


    • arkie 1.1

      Por que no los dos?

    • Pat 1.2

      Given most business models now what percentage of costs to wages make up?…id suggest that the inflationary impact of a min wage increase will be far less than you think…especially when you consider the industries that currently pay min wage as of course.

      And then you must also remember that (controlled) inflation is the goal….youve has your decades of tax cuts to fuel consumption and they have run out of effect.

    • James Thrace 1.3

      A higher minimum wage also reduces the amount of redistribution needed through winz. So less is paid out from the state and more is paid by the employer in recognition of the output from the workers.

      • Sabine 1.3.1

        nope, that is not gonna change, no more then it changed after the first of april this year.

        Pretty much most rentals gone up by about 25 – 45 NZD after the rent freeze. So there is your 'min wage increase'. But food gone up, transport costs gone up, electricity, water, line costs, phone etc all up up and away.

        So the poor schmuck working in a supermarket or call centre will get a dollar more per hour from 1 april on, and prices will increase by just a little bit more to cover the costs on everything else on April 1st too. A perfect Aprl Joke.

        Labour, were misery is coated in malignant benevolence.

        Disclaimer, i have proudly voted twice NOT for the quota woman of the Labour party.

        • SPC

          The rent goes up regardless of whether they get a MW increase. The MW increase is the difference between paying the rent, or becoming homeless.

      • SPC 1.3.2

        You are right about that. A higher wage reduces eligibility for WFF tax credits.

        That will help the government with its rising cost of the AS – as this goes up went rents do.

    • Sabine 1.4

      they will be no better off then with the last increase.

      The 40 bucks per week pre tax will not be enough to keep up with inflation, rising cost of living and housing, not to mention medical costs etc.

      But at least the government can pretend to be doing something, even if it achieves shit all and in fact may even makes it worse.

      Vote labour, for a kinder gentler misery.

      • WeTheBleeple 1.4.1

        Actually, they'll be 40 bucks a week better off.

        With inflation around 2.15% they'd need to be earning more than $1800 pw for the figure of $40 to be swallowed by inflation.

        • Peter chch

          The $40 is pre tax. With most beneficiaries on say 15% tax, the increase is not an extra $40 in ones pocket.

          Inflation of 2.15% does not fall evenly across all consumption. House price increases, and thus rent increases particularly in the big cities, are significantly above the rate of inflation. Rent forms yhe single biggest chunk of the expenses of most lower income households.

          • SPC

            Rent costs are a function of market demand, and those on the lowest incomes need the MW increases to afford rent (and AS besides in many areas).

            • Stuart Munro

              Rent costs are the price we pay for decades of spineless, greedy, and stupid governments that let speculators have free rein. And they still haven't learned 🙁 .

              • SPC

                Rent costs are a function of market demand a poorly controlled poorly regulated and poorly taxed market.

              • Jimmy

                Supply and demand also makes a difference. If there was an abundance of properties available to rent in any given area the price would go down.

                • Stuart Munro

                  This has been coming for a long time – it hasn't been single terms of government error, but decades of sustained error. They know it perfectly well, but still think they get to claim to be a good government without taking the trouble to actually govern angry.

        • Peter chch

          The $40 is pre tax. With most beneficiaries on say 15% tax, the increase is not an extra $40 in ones pocket.

          Inflation of 2.15% does not fall evenly across all consumption. House price increases, and thus rent increases particularly in the big cities, are significantly above the rate of inflation. Rent forms the single biggest chunk of the expenses of most lower income households.

          • WeTheBleeple

            Fair enough. Let's not forget the accommodation supplement meets some of the rent increase. No I don't approve, just saying.

            Housing is the great economic divider and parasitises all who are not in the club.

            • Peter chch

              Agree. Let's hope 2021 sees some kind of reform by the government re housing.

              Just never understand why such great things in housing were achieved during the depression yet now the best this government offered was Kiwibuild, and the previous government not even that!

              • Adrian

                The " great things in the depression" actually took about 3 to 4 years to kick in apparently.

                • Sabine

                  well we are past that already considering that this is the second term.

                  so lets hope that something trickles down soon, right?

      • Jimmy 1.4.2

        My morning coffee from BP went up from $5 to $5.30 after the last wage increase. That is a 6% rise.

        • WeTheBleeple

          You should write to Mike Hosking and compare notes. He will assure you the sky is falling.

        • Robert Guyton

          If it costs me 30c to ensure people get a fair wage, I'm willing to make the sacrifice!

        • AB

          Maybe buy your coffee from a local cafe – one with owner/operators who are interested in food and drink and care about their customers? Not some global giant who wants to opportunistically trap you into buying crap mass-produced food and bad coffee because you happen to be on-premises buying petrol. You might find the local cafe is less cynical about gouging you for every cent on whatever lame excuse they can drum up. (Remember the rule of thumb – if we don't dispossess the rich, they will dispossess us)

          • gsays

            Well said AB, as a former hospitality business owner, you were more polite than I would have been.

            I have vowed to only ever buy fuel from oil companies.

    • SPC 1.5

      A tax cut for those on high incomes (who also pay tax on their first $48,000) afforded by the government borrowing more money? Really? We have the lowest tax requirement for those of wealth and high incomes anywhere (low top rate, no CGT, no wealth/assets/estate taxation) as it is.

      The inflationary impact of the MW increase is negligible – you know what happended in 2018 and 2019 and 2020 when it was increased – stuff all rise in inflation.

      And given the housing shortage – and rising rents, the low paid workers need the money.

    • Jimmy 1.6

      Minimum wage was $15.75 an hour back in 2017 when Labour came in. It is now $18.90 so people get an extra $126 before tax on a 40 hour week. I wonder if they feel better off now?

      • SPC 1.6.1

        If National was in government it would have gone up 50 cents a time 15.75 to 17.25 by 1 April 2020. Apparently they would make no increase at all this time. So under them it would have remained at that level $17.25 from 1 April 2021.

        So are low wage workers better off than they would have been otherwise?


        • Jimmy

          Yes but weren't Nats also putting thru a tax decrease for them so they receive more in the hand?

          • SPC

            Has the National Party ever proposed a tax cut that would give those on the MW more than $10 a week?

            • Jimmy

              I thought they had actually but I'm no expert on Nats policies. Don't forget that as gross wage not increasing, their working for families will not decrease either.

      • Sabine 1.6.2

        well according to the government stats that ain't so…..


        Key facts

        Comparing the June 2020 quarter with the June 2019 quarter, the median weekly income:

        • from all sources decreased $54 (7.6 percent) to $652
        • from wages and salaries increased $44 (4.3 percent) to $1,060
        • from government transfers increased $23 (6.7 percent) to $364
        • for self-employed people decreased $96 (12.5 percent) to $671.

        The median hourly income from wages and salaries increased $1.47 (5.8 percent) to $27.00

        The gender pay gap was 9.5 percent.

        All income data refers to gross (before tax) income for individuals and is statistically significant unless otherwise specified.

        Incomes from all sources fall for the first time

        Median weekly income from all sources, for all people, decreased $54 (7.6 percent) to $652 in the June 2020 quarter. This is the first decrease in this measure since the series began in 1998.

        • SPC

          You do know the difference between the MW and the median wage right?

          And the older workers on the median wage are likely to be homeowners much wealthier than they were a few years ago (sort of at least, they can only leverage that rise in wealth by moving to an area with lower property values) – and those still paying off their mortgages have lower payments now with lower mortgage rates.

          There is a reason why Labour was so re-elected. And why they are so accepting of rising property values.

          • Sabine

            What, you don't like the government stats on how salaries / wages are the only thing that has gotten up while self employed people are down, and income from all sources decreased, while only wages/salaries and government hand outs have gone up?

            Oh boy. So sorry. So very sorry to upset you.

            bye now.

            • SPC

              You are aware what the June quarter 2020 refers to?

              It was the one with the lockdown in it.

              And given you were responding to a post about about were those on the minimum wage better off for the increases …

    • Brigid 1.7

      "The price of labor—namely wages—is rising at a robust pace, especially in the European Union’s newer member states. Yet, surprisingly, inflation has barely risen."


  2. WeTheBleeple 2

    Biden's selection of Jennifer Granholm as Secretary of Energy is a good choice. A hard worker, a great communicator, and a champion of renewable energy.

    The BAU everyone is adamant is about to occur – will not. Sure, change is not going to be fast enough for most round these parts, but this lady is no dinosaur nor a rich crony.

    Hard working experienced people. I reckon Joe's doing alright building a team considering everyone's expectations are so low.

    • Andre 2.1

      More significantly, the appointment of Granholm may signal an intention to re-orient the Department of Energy to actually be mostly about energy, rather than being a deceptive name for the keeper of the nuclear weapons stockpile.

      Most of the Energy Department's budget is devoted to maintaining the country's nuclear weapons arsenal, but it also operates the 17 national labs that have helped develop advanced technology used in renewables, nuclear energy and fossil fuel production. Under former President Barack Obama, the Energy Department oversaw tens of billions of dollars in loan guarantees and grants that expanded the adoption of solar and wind power, helping drive a steep drop in the prices of renewable electricity. Those achievements were tarnished at the time by the scandal over Solyndra, a solar technology company that collapsed after taking more than $500 million in federal funds.

      DOE also will play a key role in reducing emissions from the nation’s building, another target of Biden’s climate plan. DOE has responsibility over setting appliance standards, conducting research on innovations like electric heat pumps and overseeing building and residential energy efficiency programs.

      Granholm has sought to position herself as a figure who can help U.S. industry transition to a clean energy economy, a process that Biden has made one his top four goals.


      • WeTheBleeple 2.1.1

        All the increments add up. With enough improvements in enough areas incrementalism might indeed become transformation.

        We have the talent, the tech, the science, and the resources. Should we proceed with technology in an ecologically sound manner, simultaneously addressing how we manage land and land use changes – there is hope.

    • AB 2.2

      "The BAU everyone is adamant is about to occur – will not."

      We shall see – and it depends on how closely you look. Just swapping out fossil fuels for 'clean' energy, but otherwise doing just the same things on top of that energy infrastructure, seems like the very definition of BAU. And it seems likely that whoever owns that new clean energy infrastructure will have massive opportunities for profit and wealth accumulation beyond their wildest dreams, while the rest of us continue our descent into peasantry – BAU on steroids potentially.

    • Red 3.1

      Where not fletchers doing the same, as well as protecting significant part of land and ensuring some housing going to the Hapu. What has exactly being achieved here barring handing over 30m in taxpayers money for nothing. Bets on Fletchers will get the construction contract, increasing the absurdity As per the honourable Paula Bennett” Next time sweetie zip it”

      • SPC 3.1.1

        It was Paula Bennett who was on her high horse about victims of someone working in parliament (and no not one of her caucus members that time) which led to a report and Mallards comments – neither behaved honourably or professionally.

        If Fletchers, the iwi, the protestors and the Maori King are all happy with this then its prime purpose has been realised. Given the current cost of land in Auckland and the liklihood of more social housing to result, its a win for the government as well.

        • Red

          Hmm, so nothing to see here move on

          it not a precedent as Grant told us so, let see if that works at next land occupation It seems no value has been created here, in contrast it has simply encouraged more issues down the road

          • SPC

            Yes, it is politics. There is the herding of cats aspect to it. And that might mean a delay to social housing – an iwi has/had an interest in there being some housing so there is that to work with.

            More issues down the road … there is no land going to iwi as part of any settlement, so in that sense no motivation to that end down stream.

            It’s in the area of land of significance, not being privately used, or held by iwi, that this relates to.

    • millsy 3.2

      That popping sound is that of angry white boomers across the country rupturing a blood vessel because of this.

      • SPC 3.2.1

        The same right wing warriors on twitter and face book and kiwiblog that got the election result they deserved. Long may they remain irrelevant.

        Then there are the many who like the rise in value of their property on the back of the COVID free status and who just want a holiday – they will barely notice this. And it will have gone away by next year – as talks will go beyond 2023.

        • Red

          Tend to agree unless we get copy cat actions which is likely no matter what Grant says / hopes The problem I see here is that government has decided to get involved in solving disputes within Hapu’s themselves ( a recipe for disaster, think up north) who own or what happens to plot of land in Mangere I am not really that exercised either way

      • Phillip ure 3.2.2

        not this 'angry white boomer'..

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