Open mike 17/01/2016

54 comments on “Open mike 17/01/2016 ”

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1. Richardrawshark 1

   17 January 2016 at 9:00 am

   I got to stop reading that Herald. but I can’t, it’s like seeing something that disgusts you so much you feel the insatiable urge to right the wrongs, and it goes nowhere, and drives you insane. From the army of paid right wing posters who daily turn up(wonders how hard working National supporters get the time to comment all day everyday).

   The one sided party propaganda machine that it is, has dropped all pretense and is going all out for the wealthy.

   Seriously first agenda of the next government should IMHO be, to by any means possible shut it down completely. I wrote to Mr Cunniliffe about this pre election and it went down exactly as I said. All out attacks by the Herald press led by Mr Armstrong and O’Sullivan.

   Exactly when does journalism cross the line and become interfering in elections and politics? Legislate, outright ban it, IDNK but do something about it opposing parties.

   We need fair elections and fair playing fields not the all out crap i’m hearing , reading and watching today.
   • Paul 1.1

     17 January 2016 at 11:12 am

     ‘Exactly when does journalism cross the line and become interfering in elections and politics?’

     When they write this bs

     Misinformation about the TPP will destroy democracy in NZ

     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11574580

     Misinformation about climate change will speed up the destruction of millions of species on our planet.

     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11574243

     Legislate.
     Stop the propaganda machine.
     • Thinking Right 1.1.1

       17 January 2016 at 12:12 pm

       Well, if you do not like Journalists ‘crossing lines and interfering with elections and politics’ what do you make of Nikki Hagar’s efforts at the last election?

       Or is it because he’s a lefty journalist he is not ‘interfering with elections’ no he is ‘exposing the truth’.

       How about a situation of freedom where left and right wing, and ‘neutral’ can publish what they like and allow the voting public to make up their own minds – sounds a lot more like freedom of speech to me.

       Some serious blinkering going on with that post I suspect.
       • Paul 1.1.1.1

         17 January 2016 at 12:47 pm

         ‘How about a situation of freedom where left and right wing, and ‘neutral’ can publish what they like and allow the voting public to make up their own minds – sounds a lot more like freedom of speech to me.’

         It’s just you hear about 99 neo-liberal voices for each one representing an alternative.
         I don’t call that balance.
         It just gives power to the corporates to promulgate their propaganda.
         I think you know that, though.
         • Thinking Right 1.1.1.1.1

           17 January 2016 at 1:10 pm

           Think of the old saying:

           “If you can’t beat ’em, join em”

           If you don’t like the view point of what the msm (aka Herald) publish and think it is all corporate propaganda then set up your own outlet and being publishing.

           In the days of blogs etc. it doesn’t take a whole lot of capital to do that.

           The problem you have though is if you go down the track of shutting down media outlets you don’t like, what happens if the other side get in and start doing the same thing?

           I suggest that the Herald/Stuff/Newspapers have a waning influence on public opinion. This has been brought about by the rising influence of online media and (as a reflection of cost cutting) the old msm seriously lack any resemblance of competence/accuracy/impartiality.

           How often do you come across media stories where names are misspelt, the facts of the matter are twisted/changed/excluded, and one sided reporting is the norm?

           I suspect with the ever demanding deadlines of the digital age this is how a story evolves:

           1 Olden days. Get the story from one source. Get it confirmed. Seek comment from the other side. Edit and Publish.

           2 Now. Hunt out Facebook/Online Sources/barrow pushers. Write a story with a headline designed as click bait and is manufactured outrage.

           Two days later once online commentary has balanced the story with the opposing point of view, the msm then publish this as a ‘development’ in the original story.

           The reason why they seem to go for ‘2’ is one story has now become two or more, the original outrage has generated more click bait(advertising revenue), and a lot of the research work is done by others for free.

           Kind of like outsourcing research to unwitting online participants.

           The only thing that suffers in this kind of journalism is accuracy, fairness, and the veracity of the msm. It may work in the short term but will likely be the deathnell of them as punters turn to other sources for accurate information and commentary.
           • Richardrawshark 1.1.1.1.1.1

             17 January 2016 at 2:48 pm

             Roll out the slogans, if you don’t like it make your own Naitonal newspaper.

             Is that what rich fucks did, bought a newspaper to get elected. fuck me i’ll just pop out to the car think I got a multi billion dollar note under the back car seat somewhere.

             It’s just more shit from the shit heads trying to argue a losing point by using outrageous paraphrases that have no fucking base in the reality of life.

             If that’s the start of your argument you’ll excuse me for turning off and not reading the rest of your beat up drivel.

             and If that’s the best you can do, here I pass to you the holy fuck off toilet brush.,
       • Richardrawshark 1.1.1.2

         17 January 2016 at 1:43 pm

         That’s like apples and oranges.

         Nikkie basically said look here there’s some real dirty politics going on during our election and the National party is donkey deep in it.

         The herald posted multiple articles doing exactly that? or do you not see any difference?

         I suspect your tea’s and crumpets are being served by now from a serf getting paid 14.50 per hour because your ruined the employment opportunites for anyone, then magically waved the, they must all be druggies, boozers have to many kids and can’t help themselves wand.

         facts are facts you and your right wing cronies wrecked the place, take it on deal with it and STFU
         • Thinking Right 1.1.1.2.1

           17 January 2016 at 2:07 pm

           Hagar was still a ‘journalist’ seeking to influence an election/politics.

           This is something you said in your first post that you were dead against – or are you only against it if it is done by the right?

           At the time of the last election the Herald and other msm were jumping all over the ‘dirty politics’ like a flock of sharks as they thought they could smell John Key’s blood in the water.

           They got it wrong. The voters didn’t buy it and Key was returned with an increased vote.

           I will forgive your ranting in your last two paragraphs as I am sure the summer heat is affecting your temperament – its a little too hot for tea and crumpets – a nice cold ice-block would be quite tasty though.
           • Richardrawshark 1.1.1.2.1.1

             17 January 2016 at 2:14 pm

             Dude your reply is just a childish persons argument. You bring in Hagar when i’m referring to the herald. Nikkie wrote a book,i’d have to buy it. Visit a bookshop, The Herald publishes daily, it’s totally different but you will reply with some shyte that makes little sense to start an pathetic argument of nuances. I could state so many differences but your just looking for a shit fight with a sad argument. I cannot be bothered with cocks like you today. fk off.
             • Thinking Right …

               18 January 2016 at 1:00 am

               Frequency of publishing has nothing to do with.

               Hagar is considered a Journalist and he published a story designed to influence an election and politics.

               I don’t have a problem with that. It happens. On both the left and right of the Political Spectrum there are a number of outlets that push stories/barrows to try and influence the body politic.

               However I do have a problem with you wanting to silence media outlets because you don’t agree with their point of view. That is the sort of behaviour that dictators get up to.

               In a democracy you have to allow all voices to be heard with the minimal of restrictions on the freedom of speech.

               That is why I said that if you are dissatisfied with what The Herald pushes then push your own view. If you can’t start one up then push it on a forum that you agree with. (The Standard for example)

               No need to swear and abuse me – just read what I wrote and respond if you wish.
           • Richardrawshark 1.1.1.2.1.2

             18 January 2016 at 1:24 am

             No thinking, I think you said it, You’ve said Hagar tried to influence an election several times. Well mate if by showing your party is playing dirty politics is an attempt at swaying an election in your mind, well ain’t that a bitch and very convenient, how about you don’t! Ever.

             Then you try to portray him as a person interfering in elections.

             Bet Richard Nixon wished he could of thought of that when Frost caught him out?

             Public interest. Exposing the Nats applies to Labour too but please I am unaware of any dirty politics from the left?

             So your argument is..it wasn’t exposing evildoing it was political interference, and Labour did it too.

             ok thanks for that, when faced with such blatantly obvious denial from someone it seems invested in the National parties success at all costs your deafness is plain too see.
             I don’t like you. For the above reasons.

             Labour did it, Nicky Hagar and a fat german did it, Oh boo, hoo, How about you DON’T ever do dirty politics. Or is that a bit much for you to admit happened so you resort to a very shallow argument on extremely dodgy ground.

             Pathetic. Don’t you have better things to do, like drive around poor area’s telling your mates what losers they all are?
             • Thinking Right …

               18 January 2016 at 3:08 am

               Richard,
               I’m struggling to make sense of your scrambled egg posting but I will try and answer you thus:

               – In relation to Hagar – I don’t have a problem with him writing a book about Slaters correspondence even though the data was hacked illegally from his computer.
               – I don’t have a problem with Hagar writing a book in which he selectively prints only data/emails which paint Slater/National in a bad light while ignoring emails which showed leftist politicians and journalists also corresponding with Slater.
               – I don’t have a problem with Hagar attempting to influence the election with his book.

               – Your statement that there are no examples of lefties doing ‘dirty politics’ is laughable. A few are examples over the years that spring to mind.

               – John Campbell ambushing Helen Clark re Genetic Engineering – provoked Clark into calling Campbell a little creep or similar.
               – Helen Clark’s habit of leaking stories to favoured journalists and justifying it as she decided that as PM by definition she ‘could not leak’.
               – Ex Labour President Mike Smith flying to Aussie as they thought they had an ‘H Bomb’ showing John Key had fraudulently signed a cheque – turned out to be non-starter.
               – – More recently Phil Twyford utilising confidential sales data obtained inappropriately from a Real Estate employee to try and show that people with ‘Chinese sounding surnames’ were flooding the Auckland Property Market.

               I could add more like Phil Goff and his ‘beautiful’ Indian constituent, David Shearer’s Sickness Beneficiary doing roof repairs,’ Dotcom’s moment of Truth dodgy email …. the list goes on.

               Again I don’t have a problem with both sides of politics doing it – but for some reason you seem to think only the right behaves in this manner.

               Politics and the struggle for power has always been the domain of the dodgy – this will never change.
               • Richardrawshark …

                 18 January 2016 at 9:07 am

                 Ok to answer your points,

                 Public interest , He didn’t do the hacking that’s another legal issue altogether. Journalists have sources. It keeps democracy honest and without, exactly where do you think we would be. meh onwards not a biggie in my books.

                 So I suspect if he were to write a book encompassing all things dirty in politics he may not have had enough print paper if all the tree’s in NZ were chopped down lets say he was doing his part for conservation. The topic was Dirty politics by the National party. ( Judith Mainly). I’ll come back to this in a moment. basically context haven’t written much have you. Topic in hand, National, Dirty politics.

                 Left politicians contacts are in all journalists phone books. Even that slimeball, whaleoils, they have to be, the said journalists often will ask for comments on something they are about to print, need information clarification on upcoming policy announcements etc. You know that. Shallow argument.

                 The example of John Cambell, he’s more keeping them ALL honest and dishes it to whoever deserves it. In fact what you said sounds more like Dirty right wing politics than left? Try using your name and thinking right about it.

                 Helen Clark leaking to favoured jounalists, umm what did she leak that damaged National? Show me some proof of the instance as versus Judith exposing a public servant to death threats for something he did not do? Via whaleoil????? Whaleoil. think man think.

                 My question to you is this, why do you come here? To shit stir, your trolling to cause arguments, nothing more. I don’t go and post on whaleoil? But you and fisiani and a few others like to get cheap kicks sticking the boot in, causing mischief and mayhem with pointless arguments backed by the most shoddy rhetoric. You are nothing but a troll. If your so into national why post here? We all know the reason why and I tire of debating a winning argument with a loser like you.

                 I can give you examples of the most dirty underhanded stuff by the truckload like what Judith did above or bennets exposing the private details of clients and saying basically I’m the minister I can do what I like nah nah nah. But what Judith got up pretty much made a book. That’s the reason Hagar printed a book pretty much about her and that fat fuck Slatter.

                 But your never going to be prepared to compromise because that’s just not how you roll is it troll.

                 Plastic much, your see through pal.

                 Your here to cause trouble. That’s the only reason sick fucks like you bother coming to the standard. Lucky i’m not running the show. I’d see through it and ban your IP faster than you could cry.” But labour did it too”.

                 Two wrongs don’t make a right, and your examples pale into insignificance. when your party took the usual dirty dealing and expotentially increased them a million fold, that’s when you lot got out of control.

                 Toilet brush, shit, you are, n fk off again. Please, go to whale oil. They love your sort there.
                 • Richardrawshark …

                   18 January 2016 at 9:11 am

                   To note: Slater is NOT a journalist but it was easier to use that context when replying to you about that particular topic. He got told what to do by Judy. The biggest piece of shit in parliament I ever saw. That just makes him a National party propaganda outlet and the furtherist from a journalist there could be.
         • fisiani 1.1.1.2.2

           17 January 2016 at 10:11 pm

           The dirty politics of the last election was all to do with a fat German criminal seeking to buy influence and change the government. that’s not my opinion. It’s the opinion of thousands of voters.
           Dirty politics this cycle was Twyford’s racist Chinese sounding names fiasco which has resulted in a huge upturn in Chinese named people joining the National Party not just in Auckland but also nationwide.
           • Lanthanide 1.1.1.2.2.1

             17 January 2016 at 10:31 pm

             🙄
           • John Shears 1.1.1.2.2.2

             17 January 2016 at 11:11 pm

             Facts please Fizzy not your opinion
           • Richardrawshark 1.1.1.2.2.3

             18 January 2016 at 1:56 am

             Twyfords a twit and an idiot. I didn’t support what he did and still don’t.

             But it was morri minor in the grand scheme of things, but hey you’ll grasp any straw with both hands won’t you?

             That Fat German I kind of like. Least he had the guts to stand against the most evil corrupt government we ever had. Your mates. Who suck up to the US at any opportunity. If they elect trump and he goes to a massive war how many of our kids are you going to kill?

             I really doubt it was due to Twitford if you had an influx of Asians join your party, but more the way you got main stream media to blow it all out of proportion. Like you do anything, Dirty Politics a shit load, much?

             Twitford has as much respect as Mallard does. But that’s two, your lot is a cabinet full of loopy idiots. Gutsy feely bennet, Collins where do I start, Brownlee i’m an MP let me in i’m important. Joyce the zoologist economist. Double dipping dip English, couldn’t find a surplus if he owned a bank, oh he does? and Key don’t get me started on that freak.

             Well done, scumbags. Must have bit hard, Hagar exposing you. Just before we remove class titles we should bestow the title: Sir Hagar ruler of all National party members and voters, with a bi-clause that makes it a illegal to not kneel too him and tip your forelock.

             Poetic justice best served soon.

             So you stole an election yes you did, your like the bank robbers gloating after a job. Doesn’t make it right what and how you did it. But winners don’t care, ask lance Armstrong it’s the result that matters eh. Cheating at all costs as long as we win. That’s my opinion on it.
       • Stuart Munro 1.1.1.3

         17 January 2016 at 4:26 pm

         And he was exposing the truth – that like Nixon, Key misappropriated state intelligence resources (the GCSB) for political purposes.

         Key should be in prison for that, but I suppose as an accomplice you’d rather try to claim “Labour did it too”. Well they didn’t – this was a new low for New Zealand – even for the National party – the bottomfeeder’s bottomfeeders.
       • Wensleydale 1.1.1.4

         17 January 2016 at 11:36 pm

         How was Hager “interfering with elections”? He had in his possession a great big book full of information that painted certain candidates for election (and their grubby minions), in a less than favourable light, and as far as I’m aware, nothing in that book has been disproved, and no legal action for defamation has been taken against the author.

         It’s no different to a real estate agent informing a potential buyer about possible issues with a property prior to confirming the sale. Freedom of speech and lying through your teeth are entirely different things. But then concepts like “full disclosure”, “public interest” and “the truth” are anathema to some people.
         • Thinking Right 1.1.1.4.1

           18 January 2016 at 1:04 am

           Hagar tried to influence the election by only publishing extracts which showed the Nats poor light. There was a whole lot more material which would have shown sources from the left and the msm were also in contact with Slater.

           I suggest that he never published that material as it would have shown all sides of the Political Spectrum were tarred with the same brush and this would not have brought about the electoral influence which he desired.

           Unfortunately for Hagar and Dotcom the voting public went against their intended outcome.
           • Richardrawshark 1.1.1.4.1.1

             18 January 2016 at 2:13 am

             Who on the left was in touch with whale oil and what actions occurred due to that contact if there was any contact you speak of?

             You say there was material, what, where?

             :Unfortunately for Hagar and Dotcom the voting public went against their intended outcome.:

             Or .. the voting public were so outraged by the whole carry on, and only true blue National supporters came out in the majority and voted the rest stayed at home and couldn’t be bothered, switching off from elections. Damage that you intended and will take a decade at least to correct the perception you created in all politicians.

             Unforeseen but doesn’t mean they thought you were right..

             You know the voting tally compared to population. What you say is an untruth, and I feel you say it so many times you have convinced yourself every single being in NZ voted National.

             Here hold the holy fuck off toilet brush for a while, your talking shit.
           • Wensleydale 1.1.1.4.1.2

             18 January 2016 at 6:31 am

             Hager is an investigative journalist, and while his sympathies may lie more with the left than the right of the political spectrum, he doesn’t play favourites. He can’t afford to because it would obliterate any credibility he has as an investigative journalist. If you haven’t read “Seeds Of Distrust” (and I recommend you do), you’ll find the entire book is a relentless slagging of the Labour-Alliance government of the time, and Hager pulls no punches in his condemnation.

             As for your “suggestion” that there exists material incriminating Labour or the Greens in the same grubby shenanigans National were found to be indulging in — given his track record, I find it difficult to believe Hager wouldn’t have published it in the interests of fairness. To do otherwise would be shooting himself in the foot. In Hager’s own words, all he desired regarding the election was for people to be informed and thereby be able to make an informed choice. I’ve no love for Labour in its current incarnation, and we’re all well aware that politicians of all stripes are hardly paragons of virtue, but the fact remains — National’s Crosby-Textor inspired dirty tricks campaign set a new low, even for them.
           • framu 1.1.1.4.1.3

             18 January 2016 at 12:01 pm

             “There was a whole lot more material which would have shown sources from the left and the msm were also in contact with Slater.”

             re: MSM – well of course. Running the smears via WO was the avenue to get them into the media – thats how Dirty Politics actually worked

             re: the left – pretty sure hagar hasnt said anything regarding this and that the only evidence he deliberately targeted national while ignoring “the left” is a fanatsy – (what he did say was he didnt publish emails that contained personal info.)

             remember – the whole saga was merely confirmation of what many suspected was going on for years, and it concerned only a tiny group of individuals.

             i strongly suspect that your trading in something not based on fact, or even credible theory
           • Stuart Munro 1.1.1.4.1.4

             19 January 2016 at 5:58 pm

             Yeah nah.

             When the police prosecute a crook they don’t tell his whole life story – only the bad parts matter to the court. Same with Nicky & the Gnats – the only newsworthy stuff was the crimes they had committed that Nicky could prove.

             The Gnats are guiltier than sin and they only reason you hate Nicky is you’re an accomplice.
   • Thinking Right 1.2

     17 January 2016 at 12:08 pm

     OK, so my reading of your opinion is this:

     If a media outfit does not share the same Political bias as the government then the government should be entitled to close it down.

     That reads really well in terms of fostering democracy and freedom of speech.

     How about this for an alternative:

     Instead of silencing voices that are opposed to your point of view shout your voice out a little bit louder – that way your view point can be put across and you don’t have to kill the freedom of speech in the process.

     IMO the Herald is plumbing the depths of incompetency as much has any perceived bias. Most right wing folks think that the Herald is on a campaign to bring down the Nats.

     I think they are gasping for air in a sunset industry and are throwing inaccurate/click bait stories around in the hope of stopping the tide going out on the fish n chp wrapping industry.
     • Richardrawshark 1.2.1

       17 January 2016 at 1:52 pm

       That’s the point i’m making when you say this

       If a media outfit does not share the same Political bias as the government then the government should be entitled to close it down.

       So a media outlet has a bias? That’s ok when they support your party though isn’t it. the biggest main stream national newspaper, not talking whale oil here.

       Armstrong, Sullishame, Hide, Hoskings, trevett, Roughan, on and on. Spot the unbiased journalist please!

       Say a policy is spot on when it is, say it’s not when it’s not. Report the good and the bad of any policy to keep us paying their wages informed so we can decide properly. Please stop treating us like we are too stupid and the pollies know best.

       Simple shit really.

       Doesn’t matter the who you support. If you post or present an opinion about politics(in main stream media) you should be liable to be held impartial. I think a journalist can not have a political persuasion that’s my belief, so shoot me.
       • Thinking Right 1.2.1.1

         17 January 2016 at 2:02 pm

         I don’t disagree with you about the bias or not of journalists.

         In an ideal world they would report all stories with the good/bad or otherwise.

         In reality though bias is present with most journalists (For example from a leftie point of view John Campbell usually had a progressive outlook on life)

         To me that isn’t an issue as long as the journalists are upfront about their bias so that readers can take that into account.

         Think over the last 20 years of how many journalists have taken up PR roles with both Labour and National Politicians. Obviously they had bents towards one side or the other and eventually nailed their colours to the mast.
         • Richardrawshark 1.2.1.1.1

           17 January 2016 at 2:21 pm

           Personally I think John Cambell was left leaning because he saw there were very few to even the playing field against an army of pro right media personalities. Whatever left and right means, this isn’t such a thing anymore since cold war stopped.

           I’ll settle down on you bringing Hagar into it, a bit. But hells bells man who the hell else was going to tell us what was happening and the right have been chastising him to the point of sending the police around ever since.

           Hagar deserves a medal IMHO for exposing it, political interference, that’s border line and probably more so seen as interference from the right because it shone a big dirty spotlight right on their low life tactics.

           You say the herald got onto it.. nah mate they made out they did, nothing ever happened. Your again just seeing that from your prospective.
   • Rosie 1.3

     17 January 2016 at 2:21 pm

     Richard, the herald is crap. It’s bad for your health. Give it up. You can not change anything about it’s content. The wrongs you are trying to right have their roots in Nationals $$$$ influence, (eg “political writer” John Armstrong received an order of merit in the NY honours for services to journalism) so any response you make to comments is like shouting into the wind. You say it drives you insane, think about it, it probably gives you high blood pressure. There must be other ways to focus your frustration and turn it into something politically positive.

     I haven’t read a copy or even looked at any articles on line since I hightailed it out of Auckland in 2006.

     I get a little puzzled about how often that paper is complained about here at TS, and I do understand it is legitimate complaint, but then commenters will link to an article later on, so they are still continuing to use the paper/site to quote from, when the same news item is available on another source. Curious.

     Maybe it’s a love hate thing. I don’t know.

     PS: Do we know those commenters on the herald site are paid? Going by the comments I see occasionally on stuffed. co.nz I would say it’s possible for people to be genuinely that stupid and wilfully blind without any financial incentive.
     • Richardrawshark 1.3.1

       17 January 2016 at 2:36 pm

       I read it to try an inform and negate the damage it does. It does a lot IMHO humbly.

       When they write click bait stuff for the far right readers, perpetuating stereotypes of poor people, backed by an army of shocking comments that they do not remove and are clearly inflammatory and borderline abuse, out right lies and insults to any one like myself trying to put some reason into the debate, I get wound up.

       Every day their is a hard group of commenters RR, High Tory, Youknowitsthetruth, JM, Meta and a few others that write some shockingly bad posts that actually get posted, is why I think they are paid, either by the Herald or by National, read them sometime you will see straight away the angles and stereotypes they are attempting to instill upon their reader base. How they get the time to post multiple coments on a daily basis on anyone who opposes their point of view or articles against government policy is beyond me.

       Take the resent article by lizzie read the comments they posted and how quick they did it. except for gandalf and wiseacre who seem restrained in their comments else they won’t get posted, the right posters print some bad shite that’s allowed.

       The paper stinks up NZ and needs removing end of IMHO.
       • Rosie 1.3.1.1

         17 January 2016 at 3:25 pm

         Hi Richard. Several years ago I used to do what you are doing now, on the stuffed.co.nz site – I do see the purpose in what you’re doing. And when I do occasionally apply an anti vomit device and read the comments sections now days I do see there are people doing what you are doing – trying counter and inform,and introduce rational discussion.

         It IS heartening to see but unless you’re made of steel, and I’m not, it can be a real downer, when you’re the one trying to counter. Depends on how much energy you can commit before it becomes draining.

         Fairfax, the company that owns stuff.co.nz and the majority of the daily’s around the country have exact same M.O as what you are describing at the herald. Place a provocative click bait article, sit back and watch the tsunami of RWNJ’s roll in. It’s all very predictable. Then come election time they place a ginormous “vote National party vote” ad taking up the entire background of the site on the day before the election. NZME and Fairfax are cut from the same cloth.

         I think in an objectively well informed society we wouldn’t tolerate such unprofessional bias. It suits our government to be dumbed down so we don’t object to their propaganda.
         • greywarshark 1.3.1.1.1

           17 January 2016 at 4:55 pm

           Thank you Richardrawshark for jousting with the RW. It is wearying to read the results of their cogitations, the first for many years apparently, and so covered in rust and dust that a spade is required to delve for the substance lurking underneath.
           • Richardrawshark 1.3.1.1.1.1

             17 January 2016 at 5:59 pm

             Thanks mate, read that, after I read Frans piece where she called a sports person who twittered recently, gormless and told him to crawl back under under a rock. It wasn’t polite at all. So it cheered me up.

             Hope next time said sports personality meets her she finds out how her big mouth has consequences. Yeah I mean she gets a right old smack to the head.

             someone come around and pick my jaw up from the floor I was shocked.

             Maybe it’s getting to the dear old cow. Her and Roughan are determined to wreck the place, perhaps they wish to live in interesting times where kaos is news galore. IDNK

             edited cus I sux at engrish
       • Thinking Right 1.3.1.2

         17 January 2016 at 3:29 pm

         The best way for a msm source to be silenced is for people to stop reading it as a source of news.

         The Herald circulation has been falling for years and their reputation is as well.

         I don’t like the Herald – not so much due to any perceived bias – but due to their general incompetence, inaccuracy, and shrilly click bait chasing.

         Its an embarrassment to their industry.
   • David H 1.4

     17 January 2016 at 3:33 pm

     It’s called fascination of the Horrible.
2. Glenn 2

   17 January 2016 at 9:39 am

   A creepy patriotic song and dance routine for Trump….Mother Jones.
   http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2016/01/freedom-girls-donald-trump-rally

   “The three girls—dubbed the “Freedom Kids” because, of course, they are—donned patriotic dresses and sang lyrics straight out of the presidential hopeful’s playbook:

   Cowardice

   Are you serious?

   Apologies for freedom, I can’t handle this.

   When freedom rings, answer the call!

   On your feet, stand up tall!

   Freedom’s on our shoulders, USA!

   Enemies of freedom face the music, c’mon boys, take them down

   President Donald Trump knows how to make America great

   Deal from strength or get crushed every time”

   God help the world if that Ass wins.
   • weka 2.1

     17 January 2016 at 12:06 pm

     I saw that on the internets and it made me feel a bit less ashamed of the dork we have for a PM. Momentarily, because then I realised he should be classified in a similar way as Trump, so how come he got to be actual PM?
   • Rosemary McDonald 2.2

     17 January 2016 at 1:24 pm

     The assembled Trumpites seen in the background look decidedly less than enthusiastic.

     I’m wondering if perhaps a firearm may have been employed to get them clapping along.

     With any luck….shit like this will derail the campaign.

     (Its Sunday…I’m trying to be positive!)
     • David H 2.2.1

       17 January 2016 at 3:53 pm

       Rosie, there’s nothing you can do. Except buy Popcorn, and wait for the show. Because it won’t be boring.
       • Rodel 2.2.1.1

         17 January 2016 at 8:12 pm

         The Americans I know ( ordinary and real people) are wincing and so embarrassed by this ‘freedom dance’ as an indication of America values.
         Some are downight angry….Those poor kids…
3. Tautoko Mangō Mata 3

   17 January 2016 at 9:55 am

   3. The Parties further recognise that it is inappropriate to establish or use their environmental laws or other measures in a manner which would constitute a disguised restriction on trade or investment between the Parties.

   TPP, Chapter 20, Article 20.2 Objectives
   http://dusk.ga/u9OH#https://www.readthetpp.com/

   What a bonanza for international trade lawyers!
   How stupid can our gov’t be to sign us up to this?
   • Tautoko Mangō Mata 3.1

     17 January 2016 at 10:03 am

     So basically, it’s an either/or vote or up or down…whatever

     TPP…. or ….the Environment
     • Manuka AOR 3.1.1

       17 January 2016 at 10:42 am

       Exactly.

       And with the various environmental crises becoming ever more difficult to ignore, corps are frantic to get their legislation through. Legislation which will enable them to maintain their criminally overblown profits even as increasing numbers of people are losing everything to corporate- caused environmental disasters.
     • Manuka AOR 3.1.2

       17 January 2016 at 2:29 pm

       “TPP…. or ….the Environment”

       “Trade agreements are being used as an instrument by big oil and big mining to stop our efforts to combat climate change. A recent report indicates how TTIP, the EU-US agreement and CETA will pave the way for polluters.” http://www.parisclimatejustice.org/article/trade-trumps-climate-change-action-cop21
   • Paul 3.2

     17 January 2016 at 10:30 am

     Unbelievable
     Great link. Thank you
   • Stuart Munro 3.3

     17 January 2016 at 10:54 am

     A bunch of them are international trade lawyers. Wayne for starters…

     Nothing corrupt about it though. Oh no. Not at all.
4. Sacha 4

   17 January 2016 at 10:18 am

   About that disastrous drug trial: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/01/more-details-emerge-fateful-french-drug-trial
   • sabine 4.1

     17 January 2016 at 10:57 am

     well really we can’t have medicinal cannabis, that would be criminal. don’t you think.

     Quote from the link: FAAH breaks down a series of compounds in the body called endogenous cannabinoids, the best known of which is anandamide. These molecules activate cannabinoid receptors–the same ones that bind THC, the key component of cannabis. BIA 10-2474 is designed to inhibit FAAH, and thus slow the breakdown of endogenous cannabinoids, which might help fight pain. But Biotrial’s information sheet lists a wide range of other possible therapeutic applications, including anxiety, motor problems in Parkinson’s disease, multiple sclerosis, cancer, hypertension, and obesity.
5. Paul 5

   17 January 2016 at 10:45 am

   ‘Public Health Assoc critical of govt support for TPP

   The Public Health Association is criticising the government’s support for the signing of the Trans Pacific Partnership.

   The advocacy group’s chief executive Warren Lindberg said despite the government’s claim those concerned about the trade deal were against free trade, it was worried about health issues – such as the cost of medicines.
   “It is not the Public Health Association’s position that we are either for or against free trade per se, we have raised issues of concern to the impact of this agreement to the health of New Zealanders.”
   Duty minister Simon Bridges said although the Chilean government has said the Trans Pacific Partnership will be signed on 4 February in New Zealand, no arrangements have been confirmed.
   A petition against New Zealand signing the Trans Pacific Partnership gathered over 11,000 signatures in two days.’

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/294244/public-health-assoc-critical-of-govt-support-for-tpp

   Article 18.3: Principles
   1. A Party may, in formulating or amending its laws and regulations, adopt measures necessary to protect public health and nutrition, and to promote the public interest in sectors of vital importance to their socio-economic and technological development, provided that such measures are consistent with the provisions of this

   AnnotationJ
   In other words, the TPP overrides any domestic laws protecting public health and nutrition, or socio-economic development.

   http://dusk.ga/u9OH#https://www.readthetpp.com/
6. Rosemary McDonald 6

   17 January 2016 at 10:58 am

   Worth a listen to hear about life in the regions….

   Of particular note is the cultural shift taking place in Oamaru…which has gone from being the whitest place in NZ to having about 20% of the population Pacifica.

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201785666

   and http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201785714… a chat with the other Peter Jackson, editor of the Northland Age.

   PJ has always been a little rightish…but presents facts and opinion in a reasonably unbiased fashion.
   • Tiger Mountain 6.1

     17 January 2016 at 12:28 pm

     Peter Jackson a little rightish? he is an old reactionary conservative as many Northland torys are, which nonetheless is better in certain respects than the modern neo liberal tory

     Jackson got his start in journalism via a PEP scheme in the 80s, he has the benefit of a long span of local knowledge but he still does not ‘get’ the Far North Māori situation being a consequence of post colonialism

     he can be friendly to some groups on environmental matters and holds a swipe card for the Kaitaia Police station!
7. Penny Bright 7

   17 January 2016 at 5:12 pm

   Just wondering if those who still support the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) are aware of this?
   __________________________________________________

   The Deeper, Uglier Side of TPP

   Posted on January 15, 2016 by Yves Smith

   Yves here. If you have friends or colleagues who would might be new to the topic of how dangerous the investor state dispute settlement process is for not just regulation but national sovereignity, this Real News Network show provides a fine introduction.

   Even though this short but crisp segment will be largely old hat to regular readers, it does also discuss a device often used successfully in these kangaroo courts, called “stacking.” which increases the odds of win by the corporation suing for compensation.

   http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/01/the-deeper-uglier-side-of-tpp.html

   _______________________________________________

   Penny Bright
   2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

   (Who does NOT support New Zealand signing the TPPA).
8. Paul 8

   17 January 2016 at 5:14 pm

   We either get rid of capitalism to it will destroy us.

   ‘The World Health Organisation has issued a stark new warning about deadly levels of pollution in many of the world’s biggest cities, claiming poor air quality is killing millions and threatening to overwhelm health services across the world.’

   http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jan/16/world-heslth-organisation-figures-deadly-pollution-levels-world-biggest-cities

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