Open Mike 17/06/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 17th, 2017 - 120 comments
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120 comments on “Open Mike 17/06/2017 ”

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  1. Penny Bright 1
    17 June 2017 at 7:52 am

    Empty, land-banked luxury mansions next to the charred ruins of the Grenfell ‘Austerity Tower’ – where poor people were burned alive.

    How hideous is THAT?

    ‘Regeneration’ =
    GENTRIFICATION.

    Every time you hear the word ‘Regeneration’ – alarm bells should scream a warning, loudly and clearly …….

    BEWARE!

    ‘Regeneration’ is yet another form of WAR on the POOR!

    #RegenerationIsGentrification
    #StopThisWarOnThePoor

    https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/16/theresa-may-scared-grenfell-survivors-finished-austerity-cameron-osborne

    • AsleepWhileWalking 1.1
      17 June 2017 at 9:01 am

      Richie Allen Show’s latest coverage of Grenfell Tower – talking about the issues the mainstream media won’t touch

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB0oyZAENy4

      • greywarshark 1.1.1
        17 June 2017 at 8:49 pm

        What a pity Richie Allen can’t resist the cheap shot of having a go at royalty being wealthy. There were large areas of Britain owned by desert arabs back in the 1970s and the cities themselves have lots of money to direct this or that way and perhaps there are people who would have a direct line to the planning and regulation of these buildings who need finger pointing if he is looking for a target.

    • stunned mullet 1.2
      17 June 2017 at 9:38 am

      Yay Penny’s back.

      • One Two 1.2.1
        17 June 2017 at 4:33 pm

        How would you describe the contribution you make to the forum?

      • greywarshark 1.2.2
        17 June 2017 at 8:37 pm

        Yay stunned mullet is back. An unfortunate thing for those who like to measure
        the value of their contributions against others on TS. Where will the drive come from to up the standards if measured against the minus level of this troll? We’ll never get over the high jump with him around, we’ll be stuck with the limbo dancers forever in limbo.

    • saveNZ 1.3
      17 June 2017 at 9:50 am

      One of the horrifying plans of the Natz is to change our state housing to the UK style ‘social housing’. That’s the housing that just burned alive women and children and entire families in London. The Kensington council is apparently sitting on a 300 million pound contingency fund, so it wasn’t a lack of funds that led to the disaster.

      The first clue National are doing this is always in their name. They are changing the name from Labour’s ‘state housing’ to National’s ‘social housing’.

      National are now selling off or even giving it away our state houses to private developers, government ‘friendly’ charities, government friendly allies, so the state house land is changed from affordable housing for the most vulnerable, to profit driven development opportunities to opportunists who after leaky building will be only too willing to go with the cheapest options.

      The next wave of Natz will be to put some sort of housing ‘management’ company in (which of course will be paid for) for the government and council to hide from any responsibility for the development and it’s effects.

      To gauge the results, look at the USA and UK, citizens in the same country or community at war or totally removed from each other and being burnt alive in ones recently refurbished social housing home, while 200 fire appliances wait helplessly at the bottom.

      Here’s what’s happened with housing in the UK

      Grenfell Tower will forever stand as a rebuke to the right

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/16/grenfell-tower-rebuke-right-rampant-inequality

      • saveNZ 1.3.1
        17 June 2017 at 10:58 am

        Social housing routs…

        “The refurbishment was carried out on behalf of Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation (KCTMO) which has managed all of the public housing owned by Kensington and Chelsea London Borough Council since 1996.

        On Friday, The Times of London reported that spending just another $8000 would have seen the entire tower fitted out with fire resistant cladding…..

        It has also emerged that the four most senior staff at the KCTMO, who managed the tower, were potentially paid in excess of $1 million annually.

        According to The Times, the not-for-profit paid its “key management personnel” £650,794 ($1,094,456) in 2015-16.

        The company has not confirmed how many of its staff are “key”. However, only four senior executives are listed in its accounts.

        Shared among four people, their individual salaries would be £163,000 ($274,000) each. British Prime Minister Theresa May’s annual salary is less than that at £142,500.”

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11877802

      • Poission 1.3.2
        17 June 2017 at 6:49 pm

        National are now selling off or even giving it away our state houses to private developers, government ‘friendly’ charities, government friendly allies, so the state house land is changed from affordable housing for the most vulnerable, to profit driven development opportunities to opportunists who after leaky building will be only too willing to go with the cheapest options.

        With the uk it is a result of devoluted responsibility initiated by the Blair government.

        It was, in fact, Tony Blair’s Labour government which promoted separating the management of the stock from the local authority’s housing and homelessness duties.

        I never understood the logic of this proposition. It weakened the local authority’s ability to deliver on its legal responsibilities, while at the same time leaving tenants confused about the division of responsibilities between the owner of the housing (the local authority) and the managing body. Elected councillors could offload responsibility by referring complainants to the managing organisation – something many councillors were relieved to be able to do

        https://theconversation.com/yes-the-grenfell-tower-fire-is-political-its-a-failure-of-many-governments-79599

        In Auckland the last of the mohicans is still up to his new wave tricks.

        http://www.interest.co.nz/property/88335/auckland-mayor-phil-goff-calls-introduction-building-warranty-or-insurance-scheme

  2. Grey Area 2
    17 June 2017 at 7:52 am

    Don’t know how many others frequent The Canary but this made my morning.

    Poor Theresa needs your help

  3. James 3
    17 June 2017 at 7:59 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11877476

    Suzie Dawson is the new head of the Internet party.

    Just when you couldn’t take them any less seriously.

    • garibaldi 3.1
      17 June 2017 at 8:04 am

      I take her more seriously than I take you James.

    • Penny Bright 3.2
      17 June 2017 at 8:46 am

      BEWARE folks!

      Suzie Dawson is the new ‘Leader’ of the Internet Party!

      In my considered opinion, Suzette Maree Dawson is a fraud.

      What on earth did ‘Suzie Dawson’ EVER do an ‘activist’ in New Zealand – that caused her to flee to Russia?

      What is Suzie Dawson’s proven track record as an ‘activist’ in New Zealand?

      How long has Suzie Dawson been an ‘activist’ and what has she ever done?

      Here’s why I hold this VERY strong opinion about Suzette Maree Dawson:

      http://www.indymedia.org.nz/articles/715

      “….Please be advised, that as an Appellant in my own name, at no time did I express an opinion as a ‘Spokesperson’ for Occupy Auckland.

      A copy of the Appeal decision of High Court Justice Ellis is available on

      http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz

      a website for which I take full personal responsibility for content.

      Also on this above-mentioned website are copies of my key legal submissions, as an Appellant in my own name, so people can read them for themselves.

      The main reason I organised the setting up of this website, was to counter the defamatory lies about myself being spread by Suzette Maree Dawson, which she has published on her own private websitehttp://occupysavvy.com

      Suzette Maree Dawson published on her above-mentioned private website a statement by Ben Cooney (‘Redstar’) during his livestream video coverage of the protest against the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) protest on 8 December 2012:

      “There’s Penny Bright – SIS informant”.

      The FACTS are, that I was one of 12 people responsible for organising Auckland anti-Springbok Tour protests in 1981, I was named in Muldoon’s SIS list as a ‘subversive’, and have never been able to get a copy of my SIS file.

      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0711/S00086.htm

      If people think I’m going to put up with these sorts of filthy defamatory lies, when I have had a proven track record going back over 40 years as an activist – think again.

      I strongly recommend that those involved in the ‘protest’ / ‘activist’ movement, exercise commonsense and due diligence?

      If people come from nowhere, with no proven track record in the ‘protest’ / ‘activist’ movement, and make a beeline for controlling the message, or means of getting the message out – act in ways which cause dissension or conflict within the group, spread misinformation / disinformation about people, without facts and evidence to back it up – BEWARE!!!

      Being involved in ‘media’ gives such people the ability to mix and mingle and take photos from inside the ranks of the ‘protest’ movement.

      Where exactly are those photos going?

      BEWARE of those who act like the 1%, without openness, transparency or democratic accountability.

      Why is it that as a (successful) Appellant in the Occupy Auckland Appeal, I cannot post this information up on the Occupy Auckland facebook page?

      WHO are ‘Admin’ currently responsible for the Occupy Auckland facebook page, and why am I being blocked?

      …..”

    • millsy 3.3
      17 June 2017 at 11:04 am

      I doubt that Internet Party will make much headway. Those that voted for, or who would have thought about voting for them will probably be swayed by Gareth Morgans lot.

      And having a leader sitting in a flat in Moscow, ‘leading’ her party via Skype isnt the same as leading in person.

    • Incognito 3.4
      17 June 2017 at 11:21 am

      Is this New Zealand’s very own link to Russia in the upcoming election or am I missing something?

    • Ed 3.5
      17 June 2017 at 1:35 pm

      Do you have anything positive politically to contribute?

    • tc 4.1
      17 June 2017 at 8:20 am

      Germany wouldn’t bother fielding their best players if they had to meet a similarly ranked football nation so did the mighty AB’s play a first choice side or use a more developmental approach ?

      It may just be an amazing example of 2 teams oceans apart in skill, fitness and coaching paired together in a sport that’s globally not even top 5 and often has these one sided matches.

    • Gabby 4.2
      17 June 2017 at 9:03 am

      Parfle, jimbo.

    • millsy 4.3
      17 June 2017 at 11:06 am

      The Pacific Island teams would be much more competitive if the IRB allowed them to pick from the plethora of rugby talent in New Zealand to represent them.

    • David Mac 4.4
      17 June 2017 at 1:23 pm

      I watched, I thought it was good, but it was a rubbish clash.

      It reminded me of the Harlem Globetrotters and those martial arts demonstrations where people pretend to hit each other. Entertaining but not really what the game is all about.

      But yeah, it was great to watch the ABs pretending to be Harlem Globetrotters. Show-offs. I don’t think the Lions have too much to worry about yet. Steve Adam’s team would wipe the floor with the Globetrotters. If the All Black Warriors dominate tonight I think the Lions should throw the towel in and spend the rest of the tour pub-crawling with their fans.

      • millsy 4.4.1
        17 June 2017 at 4:06 pm

        The AB’s are basically becoming the Harlem Globetrotters, given the fact the the NZRU has been organising meaningless matches in Chicago, Hong Kong, Japan,etc with Ireland and Australia respectively.

        These is nothing wrong with playing such exhibition matches, but I think a Barbarians style side is more suited to that sort of thing.

    • Ed 4.5
      17 June 2017 at 1:34 pm

      Do you thinking parroting NZ sporting success shows that right wing nut jobs are true New Zealanders?

      • Red 4.5.1
        17 June 2017 at 2:03 pm

        Yes Paul dear, or Ed or what ever

      • David Mac 4.5.2
        17 June 2017 at 2:26 pm

        I think people that were involved in sport when in their formative years are the ones that often go on to have a long-lasting interest.

        It conditions us like music, hearing the music we listened to when teens takes us back there. When a team has a few combinations and one gets pulled off, it’s a shared buzz that feels good to recall. Like listening to Pink Floyd.

        One of the neat things about NZ is how access to any sport is available to all of us, regardless of background. The Chinese owned resort being developed near me is to have 100’s of villas. It is cheaper for someone living in Beijing to play golf for a week on Karikari Peninsula than in Beijing.

        • Ed 4.5.2.1
          17 June 2017 at 2:27 pm

          Not all sports are available to everyone.
          Yachting?
          Skiing?
          Cricket?
          Tennis?

          • marty mars 4.5.2.1.1
            17 June 2017 at 2:40 pm

            do you like any sport ed?

          • David Mac 4.5.2.1.2
            17 June 2017 at 2:54 pm

            Yep, all those sports Ed.

            Have a chat to the prez of any the yachting clubs around NZ. Heaps of them just a Google away. Tell them of your burning desire to learn to sail and your minimal budget. I think you’d be hard pressed to find a club that didn’t push a few doors open for you or your kid. This is what happens at the clubs I’ve been associated with, most rugby clubs will have a cupboard of assorted sizes of boots somewhere. I suspect there are more than a few nod and a wink scholarships on the go.

          • Craig H 4.5.2.1.3
            17 June 2017 at 3:47 pm

            I played cricket as a kid and the club had all the gear for poorer families like ours, so it was just paying subs and buying cheap white clothing. It was also free at school, as was softball, tennis and a host of other sports.

          • KJT 4.5.2.1.4
            17 June 2017 at 9:59 pm

            Yachting is available to anyone who is willing to help the boat owner antifoul.
            Poor kids get into ski-ing as lifties.
            Every State school has a cricket team.

            Tennis is even easier. Courts and rackets can be used for a few dollars.

            Every sport takes time and money to get to the top. Which makes any elite sport the almost exclusive domain of the well off.

          • Union city reds 4.5.2.1.5
            17 June 2017 at 11:40 pm

            Cricket and tennis are pretty much available to everyone, even those from low socio economic backgrounds. Certainly not elitest, well not in the mind’s eye of the well grounded.
            At secondary school, for summer games, the choice was cricket, tennis or athletics. Opting for the easy life, I chose cricket.
            Save for facing a few deliveries before letting one slip through the gate to rattle the timbers and back to the boundary for a well deserved rest to wait out the innings, or standing in the outfield miles from the pitch, occasionally waiting for a ball to roll up and throw it back, it’s the perfect lazy man’s game.

        • James Thrace 4.5.2.2
          17 June 2017 at 4:40 pm

          It’s not just the formative years in sport that imprint a long lasting interest in that sport.

          I’m also of the impression that the government of the day for those who are 13-19 is also imprinted on them as well. Anecdotally, my peers were living under a labour government, and the majority are rather left leaning supporting nearly anyone but National/ACT.

          OTOH, a young cohort I know through volunteering activities grew up under National and wholeheartedly support them as a good government. Despite all the evidence to the contrary.

          Food for thought.

  5. saveNZ 5
    17 June 2017 at 11:15 am

    Hard to believe in one of the richest countries in the world, in one of the richest cities in the world and in one of the richest boroughs in the world, that parents have to throw their kids out the window in a fire, to save them, because Tory right wing government policy seems to have allowed a continuation of deregulation, exploitation and profiteering to foster rather than basic safety and common sense in their city. Sadly it looks like the poor kid is going to be an orphan even though she survived.

    Miracle of four-year-old girl who was caught by hero after being thrown from the tower

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11878164

    Sadly as well, they will probably find nobody responsible, as all the many people who made the decisions that led to this manslaughter will be deemed to be ‘doing their job’.

    Yep, stupidity, profiteering and policy wonks who allowed this situation to happen and many more to be in danger, will be isolated, because it will be found to be completely legal to kill people in this way under a right wing government – profit before people.

  6. mauī 6
    17 June 2017 at 12:20 pm

    Van Beynen’s article trying to scare people off socialist policies uses a common argument by the right and it’s one I don’t really know how to answer. That during the 1970s and 80s New Zealand’s economy was in crisis struggling to pay it’s way and I think inflation was very high. So something had to be done, hence Government budget cuts and state sell offs, etc.

    My question is and it’s probably already been answered here many times, but how would the left have averted these economic crises? How could we have got through the 80s retaining full and high employment, good wages and New Zealand industries and a healthy economy?

    • David Mac 6.1
      17 June 2017 at 1:31 pm

      I think it was inevitable that at some stage we were going to need to gear our economy to that of our potential major trading partners, the rest of the world. I think Rogernomics got that right.

      But there is more than one way to skin a cat and I fear Roger Douglas and his team selected the ‘pointy stone’ method. Get there in the end, sort of, but crikey what a mess.

    • Bill 6.2
      17 June 2017 at 1:35 pm

      Kalecki from 1943…

      ‘Full employment capitalism’ will, of course, have to develop new social and political institutions which will reflect the increased power of the working class. If capitalism can adjust itself to full employment, a fundamental reform will have been incorporated in it. If not, it will show itself an outmoded system which must be scrapped.

      http://delong.typepad.com/kalecki43.pdf

      Reading the whole piece (only 5 pages) is kind of enlightening. I had a bit of too and fro with NicNz (?) a while back. We disagreed whether capitalism can create and maintain full employment (an aspect of social democracy) without a backlash where ‘monied interests’ essentially cut off their noses to spite their tails. With full employment, they make more money but have lower margins and much, much less power than they’d expect under liberal capitalism.

      The 1980s was an assault on the power of the working class. That’s all it was, although it wasn’t presented as such – we got fed all the red herrings of TINA.

      • David Mac 6.2.1
        17 June 2017 at 4:22 pm

        I think the playing field is changing, full employment a sunset aspiration.

        I fib to my Father. “Putting in long hours Dad, burning the midnight oil, hoping to get out for a few hours fishing late Sunday afternoon.”

        To my Dad, hours on the grindstone is a measure of a man’s value and worth. It worked well for him. He looks about his mates and believes that the ones that have ruined their backs through hard Yakka have got the formula right. To a degree he is right, it’s generally his mates with crook backs that groan all the way to Europe and back.

        Since my Dad’s generation we’ve had the ‘Don’t work harder work smarter’ thing come along. This concept appealed to me, I found a way. I much prefer gas-bagging on a blog to balancing tyres at Beaurepaires.

        Soooo….while we were once pursuing full employment, I wonder if these days we shouldn’t be looking for ways for us to cost effectively do less. Well not less, but teaching a kid to play a ukulele rather than doing a wheel alignment on a Pulsar.

        • greywarshark 6.2.1.1
          17 June 2017 at 5:05 pm

          By George David Mac I think you’ve got it.
          Soooo….while we were once pursuing full employment, I wonder if these days we shouldn’t be looking for ways for us to cost effectively do less. Well not less, but teaching a kid to play a ukulele rather than doing a wheel alignment on a Pulsar.

          Everyone go to primary and learn the basics in any way that suits their learning style – able to write, express thoughts, describe a project from start to finish and then manufacture it to finality, though not abolutely perfectly.
          Know your basic maths, show how to apply it practically.
          Describe a page of a fictional novel and what the writer was trying to say.
          Describe a page of non-fiction and what elements of the events the author has focussed on.

          Then at intermediate choose an interest and spend six months on finishing off a goal while still doing schoolwork. But also write up the practices used to do the project. The goal would be to finish and to overcome problems.
          A sort of Myth Busters approach.

          The emphasis would be applied knowledge and gaining knowledge as the project continued and which would be applied to progressing it. It would be to finish something even if it wasn’t perfect.

          • greywarshark 6.2.1.1.1
            17 June 2017 at 5:37 pm

            Sorry. I don’t know how this half-baked idea got into this post. Below is the fully-baked one, with a cherry on top.

        • greywarshark 6.2.1.2
          17 June 2017 at 5:20 pm

          By George David Mac I think you’ve got it.
          Soooo….while we were once pursuing full employment, I wonder if these days we shouldn’t be looking for ways for us to cost effectively do less. Well not less, but teaching a kid to play a ukulele rather than doing a wheel alignment on a Pulsar.

          Everyone go to primary and learn the basics in any way that suits their learning style – able to write, express thoughts, describe a project from start to finish and then manufacture it to finality, though not abolutely perfectly.
          Know your basic maths, show how to apply it practically.
          Describe a page of a fictional novel and what the writer was trying to say.
          Describe a page of non-fiction and what elements of the events the author has focussed on.

          Then at intermediate choose an interest and spend six months on finishing off a goal while still doing schoolwork. But also write up the practices used to do the project. The goal would be to finish and to overcome problems.
          A sort of Myth Busters approach.

          The emphasis would be applied knowledge and gaining knowledge as the project continued and which would be applied to progressing it. It would be to finish something even if it wasn’t perfect. Learning how to direct your own life and get satisfaction from your own creative efforts is what we will soon need with the constant disintegration of our local enterprise by undercutting from overseas imports.

          Today I met a man who lost his job unexpectedly mid life and was at a loss living in the country but not a farmer, what to do? He and his wife set themselves to make some wooden craft things, now he has a business making beautiful jigsaw-pieced toys, works of art in themselves – animals, fairy tale designs, flowers in a vase, a Hundertwasser building, all beautifully coloured by his wife. Anyone interested (they cost about $25 or so) just ask and I’ll put up his info.

          We have to spend locally and support ourselves and our own enterprise in a spiral effect, that goes round and round and finally can go off to other areas. That is what sustainable living will be like. Not as glossy for some, but very vibrant with people taking interest in their neighbours’ skilled output, instead of damning their neighbour for being unemployed in the free market which is oxymoronic.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.3
      17 June 2017 at 1:38 pm

      That during the 1970s and 80s New Zealand’s economy was in crisis struggling to pay it’s way and I think inflation was very high.

      It was because even Keynesian Capitalism had failed. That was true around the world and not just in NZ.

      But the politicians listened to the capitalists and went backwards to more capitalism, the type of capitalism that had brought about the staggering poverty of the 19th century and brought about the Great Depression. The inevitable result of which was the increasing poverty that we’ve seen over the last few decades and the Great Recession.

      The way we needed to go was further away from capitalism.

      • Red 6.3.1
        17 June 2017 at 2:09 pm

        Why do you always avoid saying what this alternate approach is Draco ie you want a communist Marxist state, just say it draco it will avoid many having to put up with your long winded and repeated daily rants

        • Ed 6.3.1.1
          17 June 2017 at 2:14 pm

          Have you anything positive to add or are you just trolling a left wing political website?

        • Draco T Bastard 6.3.1.2
          17 June 2017 at 2:26 pm

          Why would you think that I want a Marxist state?

          If I wanted that I would have said so. Marx may have been right in his critique of capitalism but he got many things wrong in his solution.

          And, no, neither the USSR nor China were/are Marxist. Marx would have been disgusted by them.

          • Ed 6.3.1.2.1
            17 June 2017 at 2:38 pm

            Red knows that.
            She’s just trolling.

          • marty mars 6.3.1.2.2
            17 June 2017 at 2:45 pm

            It seems a fair point – the opposite of capitalism is communism? For some that duality is true. What about you draco. If not capitalism (which I hate) what??? And sure a hypothetical and a real example would work for me.

            • Draco T Bastard 6.3.1.2.2.1
              17 June 2017 at 3:22 pm

              It seems a fair point – the opposite of capitalism is communism? For some that duality is true.

              The world isn’t a duality.

              I want to get rid of ownership of land (not that we own land in NZ), houses and business as it causes so much inequality as Piketty proved. Ownership is the heart of capitalism same as it was the heart of feudalism. And that basis for society goes back thousands of years and every single society that used it has collapsed due to the wealth going in increasing amounts to the owners.

              Necessities (housing, food, education, etcetera) should be provided by the state to ensure that everyone has a reasonable living standard. Work that people do is paid but there’s also a maximum income preventing runaway wealth accumulation.

              Stop the banks from creating money and all money to be created by the government and spent into the economy. A UBI of course as a fundamental part of the monetary flow.

              Extraction of resources to be done by the state on an as need basis with the acceptance that those resources are limited and need to be husbanded rather than sold off as fast as possible as is done now.

              Reduction of farming to enough to feed us with the rest returned of the land to the wild with limits on population growth.

              Increased automation to reduce the need for physical labour while also increasing the number of people in R&D. That automation would include the building of factories to produce what as much as possible here in NZ from our own resources. It’s physically impossible for an offshore factory to produce anything cheaper than we could. These factories would also be state owned but run by cooperatives – or maybe not even state owned but ‘self-owned’.

              The private sector would supply ‘nice to haves’ through cooperative businesses that are ‘self-owned’. The workers would work and administer the business. Loans would be taken out and repaid by the business and not the workers.

              People would be encouraged to join groups that they’re interested in that would be fully resourced for R&D and innovation.

          • Red 6.3.1.2.3
            17 June 2017 at 4:05 pm

            Then what do you want in a couple of sentences that would realistically work, please don’t sprout Germany or Scandinavia, simply benificaries or the other side of excessive Southern Europe debt, consumption and government deficits.

            • Draco T Bastard 6.3.1.2.3.1
              17 June 2017 at 4:08 pm

              Ah, so you’re admitting to being too stupid to understand what I’ve already written.

              • Red …
                17 June 2017 at 4:15 pm

                Sounds. A lot like communism to me, why are you to afraid just to say it, would avoid you having to write a war and peace epistle to explain your self

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  17 June 2017 at 7:20 pm

                  Why would I call it something that it isn’t so that you can just write it off without thought?

                  Not that you’ve ever given any indication of being able to think.

        • Bill 6.3.1.3
          17 June 2017 at 2:50 pm

          A ‘communist Marxist state’ you say? How many contradictions can you squeeze into three words there Red? 😉

          Next you’ll be saying you went to the local ice cream place and got the hump when they said they couldn’t serve you a ‘toasted ice-cream Tuesday’

          • Red 6.3.1.3.1
            17 June 2017 at 4:12 pm

            Toasted ice cream, there’s an idea Bill , maybe toasted waffles, hot chocolste sauce with ice cream center Just need to be a little more creative bill and think a bit more lateral, outside your pre disposed paradigm and bias😀

      • Stuart Munro 6.3.2
        17 June 2017 at 2:12 pm

        It wasn’t that Keynesian had failed per se – but we had lazy fools in power who thought Keynesianism means you can do any damned thing you please. Now we have opposite kind of lazy fools, who think neo-liberalism means you can do any damned thing you please.

        Actually, whichever of these twin gods you worship, you must try to maximize the positive results for citizens from your interventions, if you wish to be a be a credible government. NZ hasn’t had a credible government in quite some time.

        • David Mac 6.3.2.1
          17 June 2017 at 2:41 pm

          I agree Stuart. We need to find a way for the guy that currently owns a taxi to retain his business when his taxi starts driving itself. Stop the $ from funneling into a big faceless money hole called Uber.

          • Ed 6.3.2.1.1
            17 June 2017 at 2:47 pm

            Many countries ban uber

          • Draco T Bastard 6.3.2.1.2
            17 June 2017 at 3:29 pm

            We need to find a way for the guy that currently owns a taxi to retain his business when his taxi starts driving itself.

            The business was driving. Once the taxi drives itself they no longer have a business.

            IMO, once the taxi starts driving itself it should become just another aspect of public transport with automatic optimisation of the transportation. In other words, I wouldn’t be able to take one from where I live to the middle of the city. I’d get taken to the nearest train/bus station instead.

            • David Mac 6.3.2.1.2.1
              17 June 2017 at 3:44 pm

              Nah, the business is providing a personal transport service to anyone with $5 a km to spend. The car is just his bag of tools.

              • Macro …
                17 June 2017 at 4:03 pm

                You remember the time when there were typing pools?

              • Draco T Bastard …
                17 June 2017 at 4:06 pm

                If that was true then why not have the state do it and have him go do something more productive than sitting at home being a parasite?

                • David Mac …
                  17 June 2017 at 4:51 pm

                  The majority of NZers don’t want the state running business Draco.

                  It’ll take a hostile coup Colonel D….Have you got a Che T Shirt?

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    17 June 2017 at 7:17 pm

                    The majority of NZers don’t want the state running business Draco.

                    The state wouldn’t be because it wouldn’t be a business but a public service.

                    • David Mac …
                      17 June 2017 at 8:24 pm

                      I have, got the classic red on khaki.

                      Why don’t we just do what it takes to prosper between the goalposts we’ve got? I keep getting the feeling that the quality of your life is somehow geared to my wallet.

                      We are surrounded by abundance in this beautiful county of ours Draco. We just need to get better at getting more of us hooked into that abundance.

                      Declaring “OK all you pickers, you now have equal shares in this Kiwifruit Farm” it sounds like a free lunches solution.

                      Production bonuses and incentives, hell yes, more of it. Give me a good reason to pick hard all day, give me 2k at the end of the week and I’m in.

              • Craig H …
                17 June 2017 at 4:15 pm

                If it’s a driverless electric car, more like $1/km for profit-based companies, less for shared and public transport.

                • David Mac …
                  17 June 2017 at 10:21 pm

                  Yeah but the cab owner has a sick Mum in Bologna, it’s $5. Save him to your favourites, your fifth ride is free.

    • millsy 6.4
      17 June 2017 at 3:50 pm

      MVB trots out the usual old chestnuts, about how it took 6 weeks to get the phone on, and how the watersiders and ferry workers would go on strike every 5 mins. They must have some master Word document somewhere that they copy and paste accordingly.

  7. adam 7
    17 June 2017 at 12:41 pm

    Here’s a little bit of plausible denial corruption.

    http://www.trademe.co.nz/jobs/government-council/other/listing-1349990490.htm

    Gotta love NZ and how it works, the beige revolution has sunk it’d teeth in here real well.

    Good luck getting young people out voting, as it just got a little harder to get them enrolled.

    Prediction – youth vote in the Auckland region just not going to produce any significant numbers.

  8. dv 8
    17 June 2017 at 12:54 pm

    An Auckland police officer has had to quit the job he loves, because he can’t afford to live in our biggest city on a police pay cheque.http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11877760

    • Sabine 8.1
      17 June 2017 at 1:05 pm

      poor thing.
      let’s hope he will make more money in finance 🙂

    • millsy 8.2
      17 June 2017 at 3:53 pm

      He could have asked to be posted to a more cheaper rural area? At least on the force, they would have helped him with relocation costs.

      If he cannot afford to live in Auckland on a policeman’s salary, then how is he going to live on a student allowance. And it is harder to get into the finance industry than it is the police force.

  9. Draco T Bastard 9
    17 June 2017 at 1:28 pm

    Rachel Stewart: Satire catches old guard off guard

    Done well, satire is a thing of extraordinary beauty.

    Like political cartoons, it can ram home raw public sentiment with such brutal efficiency that it leaves the object of ridicule reeling.

    Of course, the best satire is done so cleverly, and so close to the bone, that its targets often don’t recognise it as satire at all. So it was with a Twitter account that started appearing on my timeline a few weeks back.

    Whoever @pureNZdairy happened to be, he was great at getting every clean water lover – which these days is most New Zealanders – wound up like a taut line of new farm fencing.

    Using hashtags like #toomanyrivers or #toomanytownies, he self-described as “Just a dairy industry PR guy, telling the Real Pure NZ DAIRY story”, and spoke just like the dairy industry folks that I’ve spent a lifetime around.

    As a result, I fell for it too. Hook, line and sinker.

  10. joe90 10
    17 June 2017 at 1:30 pm

    Elizabeth Warren puts the slipper into a bankster.

    “Why should anyone believe you?”

    2006: Bank CEO says it's safe to deregulate his bank2008: His bank gets $1.4B bailoutYesterday: He's back asking for deregulationWatch: pic.twitter.com/h9SjvdAd7o— Elizabeth Warren (@SenWarren) June 16, 2017

    https://twitter.com/SenWarren/status/875808277149372416

    • Grey Area 11.1
      17 June 2017 at 2:45 pm

      Absolutely. She is an awful human being. Reminded me of a number of politicians here with no moral compass.

      Notice how despite any question she was asked, she basically ignored it and returned time and again to her script. The interviewer (good her!) tried but it’s hard to reason with the Maybot.

    • Bill 11.2
      17 June 2017 at 3:04 pm

      Well, I think you guys are being a bit harsh. As pointed out by the interviewer (at around 6:55), there are 4000 high rises, and as May responded, the government has managed to identify them. That’s awesome.

      • Ed 11.2.1
        17 June 2017 at 3:07 pm

        She didn’t reply to any question asked

        • marty mars 11.2.1.1
          17 June 2017 at 3:14 pm

          the questions were idiotic

          I have zero time for right wing scum like May but ffs she is a politician – nuff said. I listened to her and thought that it was a no win interview for her – she could have said anything and it still would have been rubbished.

          It is time for her to resign – she cannot survive and she knows it.

        • Bill 11.2.1.2
          17 June 2017 at 3:25 pm

          Of course she didn’t.

          She, and I’d suggest the entire government and whatever local authority bodies there may be, are completely out of their depth.

          On top of that, I could guess it came as a bit of a shock to May that someone could have a house burn down and wind up with nothing at all. I mean, if it happened to her, she’d file an insurance claim and move into another property. She might pull down on some investments or whatever in the short term to fund the cost and inconvenience of setting things up.

          In her world, the worst case scenario likely involves getting mummy and daddy or “George” to provide a private loan of some description – maybe make one of their ‘second’ cars available, and possibly pull in a favour or two from their good friends the lawyer, the school principle, the city councillor, the undertaker, the real estate agent…

      • Grey Area 11.2.2
        17 June 2017 at 4:51 pm

        Well, I think you are being more than a bit kind Bill. The one good thing is that the longer she clings to power, more UK voters will (hopefully) wonder: ” Is this the best the Tories have got?”

    • David Mac 11.3
      17 June 2017 at 3:31 pm

      Efforts to ensure the victims aren’t naked or starving 2 days after the catastrophe is the action plan of someone addressing a jolly nuisance.

      “The Fire Service is looking into it.” A leader that gave a genuine damn would have a list of the buildings clad in that death skin on their desk 20 minutes after hearing of the fire. The occupants of those 4000 other buildings must be leaning out their windows tapping the cladding. ‘So what’s this then?’

  12. joe90 12
    17 June 2017 at 3:22 pm

    The peace dividend.

    /

    A pair of top White House officials is pushing to broaden the war in Syria, viewing it as an opportunity to confront Iran and its proxy forces on the ground there, according to two sources familiar with the debate inside the Donald Trump administration.

    Ezra Cohen-Watnick, the senior director for intelligence on the National Security Council, and Derek Harvey, the NSC’s top Middle East advisor, want the United States to start going on the offensive in southern Syria, where, in recent weeks, the U.S. military has taken a handful of defensive actions against Iranian-backed forces fighting in support of Syrian President Bashar Assad.

    Their plans are making even traditional Iran hawks nervous, including Defense Secretary James Mattis, who has personally shot down their proposals more than once, the two sources said.

    https://www.justsecurity.org/42230/trump-administration-weighs-confronting-irans-proxies-syria/

  13. adam 13
    17 June 2017 at 4:14 pm

    I’ll show my age by posting this, but A Tribe Called Quest still one of the best hip hop acts in the world.

    This is a wee gem, which actually confronts politics of divide and conquer.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO2Su3erRIA&ab_channel=TribeCalledQuestVEVO

  14. greywarshark 14
    17 June 2017 at 4:46 pm

    People love complaining and being shocked. Shit happens, but not in front of me sort of thing. A woman in USA passes out in the toilet and they rush her out on a narrow stretcher to where there is room to give her assistance. It upset some other passengers, who don’t know the difference between underwear and being truly naked, it must be the ‘Victorian’ effect of people who have never been desensitised by television and films.
    It was a trauma that she suffered but other passengers’ feelings were paramount –
    “‘They’ should have”………..

    “One described her as being “dragged down the aisle” on a tarp-like stretcher, partially clothed, in front of the other passengers. She was described as naked from the waist down, although the airline says she was wearing underwear.
    Art Endress told the Minneapolis Star-Tribune: “The EMT was out of line. The flight attendants could have thrown a blanket on her.”

    Attempts to revive Hines failed and she later died.”

    Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport spokesman Patrick Hogan defended emergency workers.
    He told People: “When we boarded, the patient was in the rear of the plane and our effort was focused on getting her out and onto the jet bridge. If she were conscious we could have used an aisle chair, which is like a wheelchair, but we used a device that first responders all over the country use when you’re dealing with someone in a narrow space.”
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/93715517/us-airline-accused-of-dragging-partiallyclothed-dying-woman-off-flight

  15. adam 15
    17 June 2017 at 6:04 pm

    Which Black Guy got killed by a cop? And which cop got away with this killing?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Q5D_nHP6s&ab_channel=TheYoungTurks

    • millsy 15.1
      17 June 2017 at 6:47 pm

      The courts have effectively decriminalised the killing of innocent young black people by poilice.

    • joe90 15.2
      17 June 2017 at 8:05 pm

      Guilty of DWB.

      Court records raise big questions: Was Castile targeted by police? Or was he just a careless or unlucky driver?

      An NPR analysis of those records shows that the 32-year-old cafeteria worker who was shot and killed by a police officer during a traffic stop in a St. Paul, Minn., suburb, was stopped by police 46 times and racked up more than $6,000 in fines. Another curious statistic: Of all of the stops, only six of them were things a police officer would notice from outside a car — things like speeding or having a broken muffler

      http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/15/485835272/the-driving-life-and-death-of-philando-castile

  16. greywarshark 16
    17 June 2017 at 8:11 pm

    We notice how people are accepting of low conditions for others who have problems, like trip up, flout the rules and you don’t deserve to be treated like a person. I found a stuff piece about a poor person who had no creds being charged $370 pw for a one bedroom place.

    But this is the extra corkscrew, the shower is mounted on the wall over the toilet. And another oddment, the title in the address bar doesn’t hold the title, just the number of the item. It is as if it is too negative about the truth so you just get – http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/93767001
    and not – Community support worker horrified at unit with shower over toilet.

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