Open mike 17/07/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 17th, 2013 - 81 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

81 comments on “Open mike 17/07/2013”

  1. Jenny 1

    The new Prime Minister of Australia has made moves to scrap the tax on carbon emissions put in place to deter polluters, and gather revenue to help fund the necessary transition away from fossil fuels.

    This decision will cost the Australian government almost $4billion in revenue, undermining the transition away from fossil fuels.

    The carbon tax will be replaced with a Pollution Trading Scheme similar to New Zealand’s corrupt ETS, which as well as encouraging speculators and investors to make money out of pollution trading, and letting the polluters off the hook, dumps the bill on the tax payers.

    Pollution Trading Schemes are a proven rort, overseeing a huge increases in carbon emissions by the polluters, but as money making scheme for investors, speculators and and international money traders, Pollution Trading Schemes have been less effective.

    As a scheme to fight carbon pollution they are a total failure.

    Despite the cuts to environmental and clean energy programs needed to scrap the carbon tax. In a statement that would make even John Key blush. The Australian Prime Minister insisted that this was a “good day for the environment”.

    In an act of political showmanship Kevin Rudd has challenged the conservative opposition to a debate on removing the carbon tax knowing that they won’t show up because they basically support his moves, and have no counter argument.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/4b-of-cuts-to-terminate-carbon-tax-20130716-2q0xq.html

    • Jimmie 1.1

      I think the Aussies should be taxed for their bush fires – think of all that immoral CO2 being released.

      Tax the polluters I say!

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1

        And Jimmie proves the intellectual vigor of the RWNJ – absolutely none.

  2. karol 2

    Interesting post on Socialist Aotearoa, about the relationship between supermarkets over-pricing fruit & vege, and hungry children.

    * Fruit and vegetable prices are too high – An organic vegetable grower told Campbell Live in February 2013 he sold a 1.5kg bag of potatoes to his supplier for $1.50, these were then sold in an Auckland supermarket for $7.99. Beetroot sold for $1.50 was resold at $9.50.

    *In 2010 a Green Party survey of 75 New Zealand fruit and vegetable growers reported that 75% of growers thought the supermarket mark-ups on fresh produce were ‘far too high’.

    *Food prices in NZ are rising quicker than the rest of the developed world – According to the Organisation for Economic Development and Co-operation, New Zealand consumers are paying 42.5 percent more for groceries than they were 10 years ago. This was the second fastest grocery price rise out of 30 OECD countries.

    *Hungry children are a hidden cost of high prices – A 2006 survey of school children found that one in seven kids (Aged 5-14) were not eating breakfast before school.

    It then goes onto alternative examples: e.g. Chavez nationalised some supermarkets and brought in price controls.

    • weka 2.2

      There’s also a problem with how the wholesalers are controlling things. It’s hard for many market gardeners to have choices about where and how they sell their produce, they get tied into existing supply line structures. I don’t quite know how it works except that when farmers try and get out of that it can be very hard.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3

      My solution to such as this is the government buying enough farmland to supply all of NZ’s food needs. They then put in place a distribution network that delivers free to the door* at cost.

      * Free delivery is far more efficient and cheaper than everyone going to a supermarket. It’s saves on time and fuel use.

      • weka 2.3.1

        I want x, y, z not a, b, c. How does that work?

        • Draco T Bastard 2.3.1.1

          Not sure what your asking? Why wouldn’t you be able to buy x,y and z?

          • weka 2.3.1.1.1

            If the governement doesn’t grow it.

            • Armchair Critic 2.3.1.1.1.1

              Buy it off someone else. DTB’s suggestion, as I read it, was not for the government to take over all farmland, just “enough”. As we produce far more food than we consume, there would be plenty of land available to supply x, y and z through non-government sources.
              Grow x, y and z yourself.
              Vote for a party that will ensure x, y and z are available from the government.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.3.1.1.1.2

              Well,
              1.) I’d have the farm managers instructed to meet demand
              2.) Mono-culture would be banned
              3.) All would be organic farms

              Chances are that x,y and z would actually be grown if at all possible but if it isn’t then you’d still be able to purchase it elsewhere or, more than likely, the government distribution network would be able to supply it as well through standard purchasing agreements.

  3. Saarbo 3

    How do we reconcile the two Headlines out of the NZ Herald???

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10899065
    HOUSE PRICES SKYROCKET

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10898808
    INFLATION DROPS TO LOWEST SINCE 1999

    Has anyone suggested that the basket of goods that makes up the CPI is a crock of shit and doesn’t reflect real inflation? It certainly doesn’t reflect inflation for the poor, if you are a family in the rental market or wanting to purchase a house then your cost of living has risen much more than CPI.

    Using the tool below, a $1 item in 2000 will have inflated to $1.39 in 2013. A $1 house in 2000 will have inflated to $2.28….perhaps Housing needs to be weighted more heavily in CPI. Or will this lead to higher wage costs, is that the motivation. Just a thought?

    http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary_policy/inflation_calculator/

    • karol 3.1

      I was puzzled by the 3News coverage last night, because of the way it referred to inflation (I think in the same report).

      It pissed me off to start with, with their promo for the item asking do the proposed changes to mortgage borrowing mean “you might not be able to afford to buy your first house” (or words to that effect). It DID include “you/your”. It set me thinking who 3 News consider to be their target audience? Certainly not low-mid income (lifetime) renters.

      Anyway their factoring (in this or another news report last night) was too complicated (or at least covered too fast for my financial knowledge-level). But it seemed to relate to exports, imports and whatever….. low inflation (around 1%-2%) is good, no matter what.

      • Populuxe1 3.1.1

        It is fairly safe to assume as a demographic that even low-mid income renters contain a significant proportion of kiwi battlers who do indeed want the security of owning their own home, and a reasonable (emphasis here on the “reasonable”) person would consider the you/youre rhetorical. Do you likewise get all indignant because the news reader doesn’t address you personally by name?

        • karol 3.1.1.1

          Way to miss the point, pop. And to slip in another nasty ad hominem with it. Did I say anything about it not addressing me?

          There are plenty of renters out there who are just struggling to pay the bills. Buying a home is not on the agenda. Many, like the state housing tenants in Glen Innes, just want secure state housing. Others just secure and safe affordable rental accommodation

          The MSM does tend to cater to the middle classes. It’s no wonder that so many on low income people.

          And part of NZ’s economic problems is the over-emphasis on home ownership as something everyone should be aspiring to.

    • Te Reo Putake 3.2

      Saarbo, there’s a section within the CPI called the non-tradeables, which more accurately reflects day to day costs. The CTU have just put out a press release which touches on that issue.

      http://union.org.nz/news/2013/price-rises-hitting-low-income-families-harder

    • millsy 3.3

      Low inflation has a price.

      The holding down of wages and conditions, and the erosion of our social services, and the reduction of living standards for those at the bottom. Mean while, middle class home owners enjoy low mortgage rates.

      IMO, we need inflation at 4-5% to ensure everyone has a decent standard of living, and the poor are not sleeping in the streets.

  4. North 4

    THE WAR ON THE POOR:

    The gluttonous Paula Bennettoinette steps in to distract from ShonKey Python’s failure to create the 170,000 new jobs he promised.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10899035

    How long before one, several, many of this fetid oligarchy’s Leggo pieces loses it and something really, really, really bad happens ? At a WINZ office or the premises of some Haliburton/Blackwater modelled social mercenary corporate ?

    Imagine the over-slapped Bennettoinette on Qeue + Adore the following Sunday, cheered on by the snippy gargoyle Susan Wood……..both aghast……..both deplooooaaaarrring violence……..both hating on the Leggo pieces……….Bennettoinette still proselytising the fantasy of King Canute.

    This oligarchy’s cynical, amoral calculation to scapegoat and physically, mentally, and spiritually molest the weakest and the poorest……….it afflicts our society as a cancer.

    • weka 4.1

      North, you usually bring in interesting perspectives, but can I say that many of your post lately are bordering on the illegible.

  5. vto 5

    Drug tests for employees are a bloody waste of time and illegal.

    Drug tests test if someone has taken drugs in about the last three weeks. Lets similarly impose an alcohol test that tests if someone has had a drink in about the last three weeks.

    Like everything this government does – it is a fucking lie and a con.

    • mickysavage 5.1

      Agreed vto.

      If beneficiaries are to be compulsorily drug tested then I don’t see why MPs shouldn’t be breath tested each time they enter the debating chamber. After all creating and changing law is an important challenging job and you wouldn’t want people to be doing it while they are under the influence.

    • Jimmie 5.2

      Not really – Health & Safety Issue.

      If you have an employee who has taken a mind altering drug in the past 3 weeks how can you trust that they are in their ‘right mind’ to make sure they are not still affected by any subsequent drug taking when they come to work?

      You can’t. A ‘P’ Head or stoner cannot think rationally or objectively and if that person does come to work under the influence and subsequently makes a mistake that kills or injures someone then that is an unacceptable situation.

      (Same with people that come to work pissed) – but is a lot easier to detect without needed a test of nay sort.

      They should go find a job that carries no responsibility for other folk (Paper run perhaps?)

      • Te Reo Putake 5.2.1

        Um, having taken drugs in the last 3 weeks doesn’t mean you are impaired when you go to work. And drug testing post accident is generally regarded as the only acceptable use of the regime. But even that is useless, because urine testing doesn’t show impairment for cannabis, just that its in the system.

      • framu 5.2.2

        that doesnt even make sense jimmie

        are you seriously saying that the mere fact you might partake of something, anything in the weekends means that you are unfit for work all the time?

        A ‘P’ Head or stoner cannot think rationally – when they are really, really high. When theyre straight, they are probably good to go. Pretty much like anyone whos had too much to drink, once you sober up, (and recover) your fine

        (unless your an addict – which once again has to be pointed out – the drug testing policy doesnt apply to addicts)

        and as for your claim that you can detect piss heads easily without a test – bollocks 1) it then becomes accusation, not provable outcome and 2) pissheads can be rather good at covering their pissy-ness

        If its a health and safety issue, which i agree that it is, the answer is in impairment testing – not presence of substance testing

      • weka 5.2.3

        “You can’t. A ‘P’ Head or stoner cannot think rationally or objectively and if that person does come to work under the influence and subsequently makes a mistake that kills or injures someone then that is an unacceptable situation.”

        Stoners can’t think rationally? Good grief, do you know how many people smoke cannabis in this country? You think they are all incapable of making a rational decision to not use drugs while at work?

        Does your point apply to alcohol? Why not?

      • Molly 5.2.4

        The reality is that P (which does have a long term effect on personality and behaviour) cannot be detected by drug tests 48hrs after use, whereas cannabis tests can be positive 42 days after use. Well after the time that impaired decision making is an issue.

        If the issue is preventative health and safety, it is not an effective tool. It also strikes me that those on manual jobs (and often the least paid) bear the brunt of random drug tests. Office workers and other services will be unlikely to be tested, but are probably just as likely to relax with their drug of choice – but it cannabis or alcohol.

        Given the high percentage of NZers that have used cannabis, it is well past time a reasoned discussion is held about decriminalisation.

    • infused 5.3

      Someone get snapped? How are they illegal?

  6. AmaKiwi 6

    “Labour MP Maryan Street is under pressure to drop a member’s bill which would legalise euthanasia because her party is concerned it could be a negative distraction in the lead-up to the general election next year.” (NZ Herald today)

    Street’s proposal is ideal for a binding referendum. Convince the people it’s a good idea and a binding referendum makes it law.

    It should be OUR decision.

    • Rosetinted 6.1

      AmaKiwi
      +1
      A chance for Labour to do something useful for the people in line with them being the party that examines the status quo and is prepared to make changes and it might drop this proposal! Says a lot about this bunch of jerks running Labour.

    • big bruv 6.2

      It will come as no surprise that I detest the Labour party and everything it stands for . However, I really hope that Maryan Street does not succumb to party political pressure to withdraw this bill.

      It is near criminal that in the year 2013 we insist that the terminally ill suffer simply because some people choose to allow their stone age superstitions to cloud their judgement and to force those same stone age superstitions upon others.

      • Morrissey 6.2.1

        You are terminally stupid. I would support your being euthanized forthwith.

      • North 6.2.2

        Hear hear Big Bruv ! Quite alot though not all is forgiven. Come up for sentence in 6 months if called upon.

  7. karol 7

    Big Brother is watching….. 3 year olds! How much more of this do we have to take?

    Identification numbers attached to children as young as three could be used to track and punish their parents.

    The ID system will be rolled out next year, paving the way for information to possibly be passed from kindergartens to the Government agency which monitors beneficiaries.

    About 190,000 children in early childhood education will be assigned a national student number, with providers collecting information including each child’s daily attendance.

    The Greens say childhood workers will effectively be asked to dob in parents who are not meeting their obligation to have their children in education, with preschool teachers used as “de facto benefit police”.

    • North 7.1

      Since amongst the righties it’s farcically de rigueur to sheet many, many things back to Labour and Helen Clark……..imagine the outrage if this was in fact Labour and Clark ?

      “Bloody nanny state…….numbering babies…….they’ll be tattoing them next !”

    • This is extraordinary.

      There is no law enforcing compulsory education in New Zealand for children under 6 years old. Why on earth does the government think it reasonable to coerce parents into sending their children to ‘early childhood education’ simply because they are beneficiaries?

      What else might the government require? That beneficiaries vacuum and dust their residence daily? That any lawns at their residence should never grow deeper than three inches? That they should never use expletives in public? That they should comb and brush their children’s hair daily? That they should enrol their children into the cubs and brownies?

      And it is no justification to claim that early childhood education is ‘good for children’. If it is, then the government, to be consistent, should change the law to make it compulsory for all children of that age.

  8. Morrissey 8

    Those TVNZ cuts are really biting now:
    Look at who they’ve promoted to “U.S. correspondent”

    Television One Breakfast, Wednesday 17 July 2013, 6:58 a.m.

    A North Korean vessel has been detained in Panama. No need for Television One viewers to be concerned, however: smiley, cheery weatherman-cum-“United States correspondent” Jack Tame is on the case….

    JACK TAME: This ship, which had stopped in CUBA, was stocked with sugar, but officials in Panama have also found MISSILES and NON-CONVENTIONAL ARMS underneath the cargo of sugar.
    RAWDON CHRISTIE: [sardonically] Oh yes?
    JACK TAME: When they were arrested, [snicker], the captain of the ship had a heart attack, [snicker], and then tried to commit suicide!
    TONI STREET: [troubled tone] Hmmmmmm….
    JACK TAME: And the ship was apparently stocked up in CUBA with these missiles and arms.

    At this point, to assist Television One viewers in formulating a suitable response, JACK TAME twists his mouth to indicate his distaste for the North Korean and Cuban scum.

    RAWDON CHRISTIE: [grimly] And in violation of U.N. sanctions as well.

    Cut to JACK TAME nodding his head, and frowning, to indicate how seriously he takes this story.

    TONI STREET: [troubled tone] Hmmmmmm….
    RAWDON CHRISTIE: Here’s Peter with the News.

    Savour more cutting-edge Jack Tame journalism HERE….

    Open mike 21/10/2012

    and HERE…

    Open mike 16/12/2012

    • tame is just so bad it is beyond fucken belief..

      ..tame appears..and i disappear..

      ..(i find that best for blood-pressure/general peace-of-mind..

      ..his faux brow-furrows particularly annoy..little emoticons twitching away up there..)..

      ..so i flicked over to three..

      ..just in time to see the compere there curl her lips in utter disdain/disbelief..

      ..at the wildly out-there idea/examples..(from a visiting academic)..of workers co-op-run businesses..

      ..actually being successful..

      ..and a potent/practical means to help lessen inequality..to re-balance..

      ..which is shallower..?..

      ..tame or that breakfast compere..?

      ..aren’t we well served..

      ..phillip ure..

    • gorj 8.2

      The video is here: http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/seized-n-korean-cargo-ship-contained-obsolete-cuban-weapons-5512781/video

      Pretty different from your transcript, I can’t see what you are outraged about (other than his retarded hand gestures)

      • Morrissey 8.2.1

        Pretty different from your transcript,

        Like hell it’s “pretty different.” My rush transcript is as close as you can get to being there.

        I can’t see what you are outraged about (other than his retarded hand gestures)

        You “can’t see”? Why don’t you click on the two other links I provided and then do some thinking?

    • Molly 8.3

      Jack Tame is also the US correspondent for NZ Herald… My blood pressure often rises at his fatuous comments and irrelevance. At a time when I would like US news to be presented to us from a NZ perspective, we are inflicted with the same old spin but with a NZ accent.

      It must have been a deliberate decision to put a half-baked journo into this position as NZ commentator on all things US.

  9. Tautoko Viper 9

    Do any of the MPs have any idea of how difficult it is to transport children to and from a preschool (a) if you have no car and the preschool is some distance away
    (b) you have 1 or more other pre-schoolers, especially a baby
    (c) if you have other children to see off to school?
    Being able to pick up the pre-schoolers at a fixed time can be difficult even for the SUV driving mums.
    Warning: Rant to follow.
    This government is NASTY and unbelievably mean-spirited. This government is not meeting ITS obligation to the people of this country in so many ways. SHAME!!

    • Rosetinted 9.1

      Tautoko Viper
      Good points. I believe this government hates parents from the lower income group, who get called by the definition ‘strugglers’, and doesn’t like their children much either, despite the fuss that they make in the news. Government only appears to care because our statistics compare badly to the rest of the developed world and attract criticism.

      • Tautoko Viper 9.1.1

        Scapegoating parents who can’t get their children to preschool is totally stupid. A more constructive solution is to provide free minibus transport to and from preschools- a pick up and drop off service. I would like to see preschools on the same site as a community centre with kitchen and rooms so that young mothers could be picked up by minibus together with their pre-schoolers, taken to the community centre. The kindergarten age children could then attend the kindergarten, younger babies could be in a crèche and the mothers could opt to join in free cooking classes or other educational courses, all run free of charge. Classes would include art, dance, yoga, and general interest, rather like the type of classes that night schools used to run (before this miserable lot scuppered them.)

        • Rosetinted 9.1.1.1

          Tautoko Viper
          Yes agree completely. I would like school classes for the parents to be offered too. Many haven’t been able to complete their education. Once they have children it can provide a real incentive and steadying influence to get further education. Children can concentrate your mind in a totally new way!

          All would benefit and it is so sad that there are these lost opportunities while gummint and the Mins of Ed and Social Welfare keep weaving their sticky little webs to trap beneficiaries, roll them up and eat them – just like spiders. Nothing left but some dry husks when the parents should be bounding upwards with a great life and opportunities in front of them and their children.

  10. Morrissey 10

    Humbug Corner

    No. 17: JAY CARNEY

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    “He is not a human rights activist, he is not a dissident.”

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    —White House spokesman Jay Carney denounces dissident human rights activist Edward Snowden (17 July 2013)
    http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/snowden-not-human-rights-activist-white-house-5512106

    Humbug Corner is dedicated to gathering, and highlighting, the most striking examples of faux solicitude, insincere apologies, and particularly stupid recycling of official canards. It is produced by the Insincerity Project®, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.

    More humbugs….
    No. 16 Barack Obama: “I wish Muslims across America & around the world a month blessed with the joys of family, peace & understanding.”

    Open mike 11/07/2013


    No.15 John Key: “They know this is an issue of national security…”
    No. 14 Charles Saatchi: “I abhor violence of any kind against women…”

    No. 13 Toyota New Zealand: “The more Kiwis that lean, the more motivated our ETNZ crew will be to win.”

    No. 12 Pem Bird: “We’re there to do the business of advancing our people.”

    No.11 Whenua Patuwai: “They’re my brothers and to see one of them goes [sic]—it’s tough.”

    No. 10 [REMOVED]
    

No. 9 [REMOVED]



    No. 8 Barack Obama: “…people standing up for what’s right…yearning for justice and dignity…”


No. 7 Barack Obama: “Nelson Mandela is my personal hero…”
    

No. 6 John Key: “Yeah well the Greens’ answer to everything is rail, isn’t it.”
    No.5 Dr. Rodney Syme: “If you want good, open, honest practice, you have to make it transparent.”



    No. 4 Mike Bush: “Bruce Hutton’s… integrity beyond reproach…such great character…”
    


No. 3 Dean Lonergan: “Y’ know what? The only people who will mock them are people who are dwarfists.”
    


No. 2 Peter Dunne: “What a load of drivel and sanctimonious humbug…”
    




No. 1 Dominic Bowden: “It’s okay to be speechless.”



  11. Polish Pride 11

    Interesting article on study of rich vs poor behavior

  12. Rich the other 12

    Mighty River Power,

    $2.43 and climbing,
    Should be very good by the time the next election is held.

    • Te Reo Putake 12.1

      Now $2.42 and dropping.
      Should be very good by the time the election is held. For the left, that is.

  13. Not a PS staffer 13

    The Vote

    Part of the Replublican Movement of Aotearoa campaign for a New Zealand head of State this year has been to push for better media coverage.
    TV3’s show The Vote has offered this opportunity for the head of State debate.
    For the republic side Bob Jones, Shane Jones and Laila Harre.
    For the monarchy.. the usual suspects: Simon O’Conner, Ron Mark and Louise Wright.

    The voting will open on 17 July (Wednesday) when the show is broadcast from 8:30 until 9:30.

    This is our best oppportunity to get the issue discussed fully since TVNZ’s program in 2005.

    Republican Movement of Aotearoa New Zealand

  14. Winston Smith 14

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/15/journalists-should-declare-vote

    Yes I agree with this although in NZ you can pretty much guess that most journalists are left wing

    • framu 14.1

      no winston – they’re just grubby little opportunists

    • Rosetinted 14.2

      Winston
      You are a shocker. You do a disservice by having the name Winston as I think Churchill was a wonderful man. You are just pitiful.

      • Daveosaurus 14.2.1

        Wrong Winston. This one is Winston Smith, at the end of 1984 after he has learned to love John Key Big Brother.

  15. Wairua 16

    It might be this Ashcroft poll which the National Party is mailing out to electorates to determine
    which policies they can sell.

    But is this democracy ?

    Wairua.

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2013/07/lord-ashcroft.html

    • Draco T Bastard 16.1

      Yet at least as instructive as the proportion of people agreeing with each proposal is the number who could not rouse themselves to an opinion one way or the other. For example, some (actually 39%, I can reveal) supported removing some of the UK’s waters from the Common Fisheries Policy, but nearly half had no view either way.

      The question should be: Why did they have no view either way?
      I think you’ll find that they just have no information about the policy (i.e, they really just don’t know) and, most importantly, don’t know how to get the information. This is why having open government and referenda is actually important. It gives people the information they need to make a decision and then has them making that decision.

  16. Te Reo Putake 17

    Amanda Palmer nails the Daily Mail, Daily Mail responds by, er, pretending it never happened:

    http://amandapalmer.net/blog/20130713/

  17. captain hook 18

    good to see greaseball garner getting his comeuppance, sort of, in the dompost this a.m.
    he thinks that because he is on teevee that he can do what he likes.
    just a bit more rope and he will hang himself.

  18. Still think that fluoridation of public water supplies helps to save the teeth of poor people?

    Please don’t exercise ‘wilful blindness’, and write off those who base their anti-fluoride position on
    scientifically-researched FACTS and EVIDENCE, (unlike the arguably pro-fluoride ‘nutters’)?

    Have YOU yet read the following?

    A) http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jeph/2013/439490/

    “..chronic effects of fluoride involve alterations in the chemical activity of calcium by the fluoride ion. Natural calcium fluoride with low solubility and toxicity from ingestion is distinct from fully soluble toxic industrial fluorides …”

    “Industrial fluoride ingested from treated water enters saliva at levels too low to affect dental caries. Blood levels during lifelong consumption can harm heart, bone, brain, and even developing teeth enamel.

    The widespread policy known as water fluoridation is discussed in light of these findings. ….”

    B) http://www.slweb.org/50reasons.html

    50 Reasons to Oppose Fluoridation

    Dr. Paul Connett
    Professor of Chemistry
    St. Lawrence University, NY 13617
    ______________________________________________________________________________

    FYI ……………

    OPEN LETTER

    Tony Ryall
    Minister of Health

    Dear Minister,

    In response to your reply, received today, 17 July 2013:

    “On behalf of Hon Tony Ryall, Minister of Health, thank you for your email of 16 July 2013 about Fluoridation.

    The Minister has asked Ministry of Health officials to advise him on the matters you have raised. Please be aware that due to the large volume of correspondence we receive, a personal reply to your letter may take some weeks.”
    ______________________________________________________________________________

    Please be advised that am not requesting a ‘personal reply’ to my letter – I am expecting an OIA reply, according to the statutory framework – of 20 working days?

    Arguably, if the ‘science is settled’, and yourself as Minister of Health and the Ministry of Health are so sure:

    “there was no doubt science pointed to the fact that there were benefits for families from fluoridation, and that the levels of fluoridation in water were safe for New Zealanders.”

    then the FACTS and EVIDENCE should surely be readily available, unless, of course it is yourself as Minister and Ministry of Health officials, who are providing the ‘misinformation’ about the benefits and safety of water fluoridation?

    I do sincerely hope that this is not the case.

    My understanding is that the basis of the scientific method is to ‘seek truth from facts’?

    That is what I try to do as an ‘investigative activist’ (as it were).

    I do understand that you’re extremely busy (there you are not alone), but both yourself, and Ministry of Health officials, may find it beneficial to take the time to read the results of some hundreds of hours of voluntary research I did relating to the quality of Waikato river water as a ‘raw source’ of drinking water for the Auckland region, back in November 2002:f

    Then you may have a better understanding of why people such as myself, do NOT trust either the Ministry of Health, or Watercare Services Ltd, when it comes to the safeguarding of public health and drinking water supplies.

    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Waikato-Amended-ACC-Presentation-18-10-02.pd

    Please be reminded that as a 2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate, I do NOT support the fluoridation of public drinking water supplies, and this will be one of the my ‘campaign issues’.

    Looking forward to receiving this OIA reply within 20 working days.

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation’ campaigner

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

  19. Anne 20

    I know Bob Jones is a bit of a bastard but this piece in the Herald is funny.

    He’s on The Vote tonight arguing against the monarchy. Can’t resist. Have to watch.

  20. Morrissey 21

    “Ranting! Reacting! Reasoning! Reflecting!”
    The voice of complacency and intolerance is as unbearable as ever.

    The Huddle, NewstalkZB, Wednesday 17 July 2013, 5:45 p.m.
    Larry “Lackwit” Williams, Colin Espiner, Janet Wilson

    NewstalkZB is the radio station on which an increasingly unhinged and irrational Paul Holmes unleashed his obscenity-larded tirades against “darkies”, “lazy bludging Maoris” and “the professors” who had the temerity to call him a racist. It is the station on which the likes of Murray Deaker, Tony “Boot Boy” Veitch and Mark Watson have been given free rein to preach about “lazy” and “dumb” Polynesians and black American athletes that look like gorillas (Veitch’s assessment of Serena Williams). It is, most infamously of all, the station that mounted a public campaign of support for a man who chased down a fifteen-year-old boy and knifed him to death on a South Auckland street, and combined that with a brutal, orchestrated, round-the-clock, day after day, week after week, month after month, denunciation of the victim, his mother, his tetraplegic father, and his family. They even mocked the boy’s mother for crying in court; NewstalkZB’s evening chatterbox Kerre Woodham was heartless and craven enough to extend the campaign to admonishing her in print.

    It should come as no surprise, then, to learn that the chatterboxes on NewstalkZB have no problem at all with the government’s recent moves to make life even tougher for the poorest of the poor. But, even though I expected it, I was still shocked by the combination of indifference, callousness and the cavalier disregard for human rights expressed by the empty vessels on this evening’s edition of The Huddle. I tuned in toward the end of the program, but I’m sure the first half was no better than what I did manage to hear….

    LARRY “LACKWIT” WILLIAMS: Issue number two: the G-r-r-r-r-reens are worried that tracking kindergarten children could be used for sinister purposes. Colin, what do you think?
    COLIN ESPINER: I personally have not got a problem with it, Larry. I mean, …..[rambles on incoherently for a minute or so.]
    LARRY “LACKWIT” WILLIAMS: Exactly! Janet, what do you think?
    JANET WILSON: I don’t have a problem with it as it stands, Larry. In fact, I think it’s a FANTASTIC idea. It’s a WONDERFUL idea….[continues raving for a minute and a half]
    LARRY “LACKWIT” WILLIAMS: Issue number three, the Labour Party is putting pressure on Maryan Street to withdraw her private member’s bill for Euthanasia from the ballot, because it has the potential to be seen as a distraction in election year.
    COLIN ESPINER: This says a lot about the state of mind of the Labour Party! They don’t want to be caught up in something controversial again, like they were when they supported Sue Bradford’s smacking bill.
    JANET WILSON: Mmmmm, mmmmm.
    LARRY “LACKWIT” WILLIAMS: Exactly! That’s The Huddle for another night. Janet Wilson and Colin Espiner, thank you!
    JANET WILSON: Thank you Larry!
    COLIN ESPINER: Thank you Larry!

    Note that Espiner got away, unchallenged, with misrepresenting Sue Bradford’s bill, which removed the parental right to beat children to within an inch of their lives, as a “smacking bill”. Both Wilson and Lackwit Williams knew perfectly well what Espiner was doing; neither of them had the gumption or the integrity to correct him on air.

    POINT TO PONDER:
    One of the advertising slogans for this outlet of unremitting bile and third-rate ranting is “NewstalkZB: Fair and Balanced.”

  21. Anne 22

    Issue number two: the G-r-r-r-r-reens are worried that tracking kindergarten children could be used for sinister purposes.

    I am a Radio NZ listener, but on a Wed. morning I listen to Annette King and Steven Joyce. Once in a blue moon I forget to re-tune to Radio NZ and I caught the same segment.

    I relate a story which happened three decades ago to a member of my family. It’s as relevant today as it was then. She was a solo Mum of three small children (Dad met another woman and left her literally holding the babies). The youngest (two years old) was prone to tantrums. It was an attention getting exercise and she would let him scream himself to sleep. A woman whose home backed onto the relative’s property (couldn’t see anything) rang Social Welfare and claimed physical abuse of the child. She made no attempt to ascertain the truth and my relative was put through the hoops. She was interrogated (twice) and made to feel like a criminal. The toddler was eventually examined and found to be fit and healthy. No apologies were forthcoming of course. This is the outcome of punitive ‘tracking’ exercises as being proposed by the Nat. govt. Innocent people get hurt and it can take a long time to recover from the ordeal. A good case in point was the “dob a beneficiary a day” scheme in the mid to late 1990s. Disgraceful stuff happened and I should know as I was one of the many victims who were falsely dobbed in…

  22. North 23

    Oh What A Big Pure Piece Is DungCan Garner?

    And sooooooooo intelligent …….lambasting the venerable Bob Jones with the callow monkey-screeching of “You’re A Hypocrite. !” Oh whateveeeeer !

    My porridge has never rested in a belly which rejoiced about Bob Jones. Heartburn if anything.

    But…………particularly as a senior I have to say this: Good on you Bob ! You ain’t got a thing to lose so I expect lots more of this………punch home that good old commonsense !

    It’s a piece of nonsense as Jones says. Why burden our selves trying to hold back the tide ?

    What I akshully rilly like is that Jones acted, underneath it all, like he understands conclusively that the whole bizo of “The Vote” is a piece of crap and he might as well be reading a good book. Since he was there he just just danced the danced for commonse as he reflexively might. Better akshully than anyone there. ?

    That’s all………..back on the zimmer !

    Oh God How The Magnate And The Mouse Converge (giggle giggle……)

  23. rosy 24

    McDonalds agrees – an employee cannot live on the minimum wage in the U.S. They helpfully suggest the employee budget in a second income and then, according to their example

    You can have almost anything you want as long as you plan ahead and save for it.

    So sayeth the company whose top man got 8.55 million in 2011 and whose workers get pay reductions when franchises change hands and get sacked if they strike because of the injustice of it all.

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