What’s wrong with Labour it's like they don't want to win.
80% of the population are opposed to deep sea oil drilling. With this one policy the united opposition could crush the government.
Government ministers will argue that it will cost jobs and it will hurt the economy.
The opposition can counter with the far greater threat of climate change.
As Gareth Hughes has said, "To really fight deep sea oil we need to fight it on climate change grounds".
Climate change is the government's worst performing portfollio, it is where they are weakest it iis where they are vulnerable, it is where they could take the biggest hits.
Yes, save the Maui Dolphin but save the Humans too.
No deep sea oil drilling, no new coal mines, let's really make climate change an election issue and get rid of this government of climate change Quislings and sellouts.
The Greens I presume are opposed to deep sea drilling. Can you explain why people are not uniting behind them?
Gosman
I will have a go.
I see the Greens as being in the same position vis-a-vis Labour as in another time were the Values Party. (except that nowadays the Greens have the benefit of MMP)
First of all Gosman, people are uniting around the Greens. But obviously not in the numbers that still rally around Labour, which is a more established (establishment) party. But despite having this established presence Labour are going down in the polls. Why, because they are not taking the leadership role their numbers and status gives them. Handing leadership to the Right and to a large extent on the Left that leadership role has passed largely to the Greens
The question for Left activists is; Should we speed Labour’s slow collapse or pressure them to retake the leading role?
(To put it more bluntly should we let the Right win this election and even the next, until ‘The Left [in whatever form] get their act together)
It is the same dilemma that faced Rod Donald when he was in Values and was campaigning against nuclear ship visits. Donald chose to leave Values and join Labour. Where he (and others) championed the nuclear free cause amongst the Labour ranks, starting with the LECs.
Now I am not for a second suggesting that Green or Left activists do that today, Thanks to the other good work of Rod Donald around MMP they don’t have to. But neither should they forget Labour.
Personally, in my opinion the planet can’t wait the 10 or twenty years until the Green Party are the government.
Lets be honest here, the 80% are not single issue voters.
Sure they may not like the idea of deep sea oil drilling but they dont see it as really affecting them and their own financial position.Generally, most people will vote for stuff that makes their wallet fatter.
You need look no further than when Labour bought an election with the interest free student loans – hoovering up the middle ground.
What’s wrong with Labour it’s like they don’t want to win.
I’m sure they do. The problem is that most New Zealanders are dumb and venal, and prepared to allow almost any official corruption as long as their mortgage doesn’t go up. It’s just the way things are now: all the Anglo countries appear to be fine with terrible governments for some reason.
It’s time to write this election off. Labour would be better suited trying to keep the 30% of voters it can probably count on in September. National could be exposed as running a pedophile ring and they would still get in.
Climate change is a minority electoral issue. Most people either don’t believe in it or have other priorities. You think Key is bad, at least he isn’t gagging environmental scientists like Harper.
It would be easier if we didn’t have a media that puts Sov1et-era Pravda to shame and treats an MMP election like a two-horse race. And regional-rag political columnists who weren’t fucking morons.
“The problem is that most New Zealanders are dumb and venal”
Yup, they’re so stupid that they’ll be fooled into voting for this reptilian child-eating kitten-killing Prime Minister for a third time.
If only they were rational they’d vote for a 5-headed coalition wrought by internal bickering. Why won’t people just vote for the unfunded bribes that are offered to them? I don’t get it either.
I mean, seriously, the parties of the left obviously write their policy and press releases in full knowledge that New Zealanders are stupid – the 10 second sound-bites cater to those with short attention spans and the lack of detail means that they don’t confuse anyone (except when they contradict each other within 24 hours, but who’s smart enough to notice?).
The left has been telling voters they’ve been stupid for 6 straight years, why don’t they get the message and drop National dammit!!!
I would say that voting against your own personal interests is a great thing.
If you vote in the interests of the collective instead of purely for short-term personal gain then that is admirable. It’s how I’ve always approached voting – what’s good for the country will be better for me longer term.
It’s why I voted against interest-free student loans when I was a student and why I’m still against working for families even when I’ve started my own family recently. I simply don’t think it’s right that other people should have to subsidise my life choices in much the same way as I shouldn’t have to subsidise theirs.
It really turns me off when the left wheels out policy that is shamelessly targeting voters’ selfish short-term interests (with other voters’ money I might add) ahead of what’s best for the country longer term.
“80% of the population are opposed to deep sea oil drilling. With this one policy the united opposition could crush the government.”
80% may well be opposed but its an opposition similar to a facebook like in that yes they’re opposed but well they get of their chuffs to do anything? Hell no.
So yes 80% may be opposed but most still know we need to be doing it
“80% may well be opposed but its an opposition similar to a facebook like in that yes they’re opposed but well they get of their chuffs to do anything? Hell no.”
Puckish Rogue
Not when the biggest Left Party in the country says its OK!
It’s all about leadership, when Labour abandons their leadership role they go down in the polls.
When Labour took the leading role in the anti nuclear movement they swept the polls.
Climate change is the anti nuclear movement of our age.
That is a total misrepresentation of the facts. People did not know that Douglas and his cadre were about to implement neo-liberal policies when the voted in 1984. They did know about the anti-nuclear policies.
Once they found out about Labour ‘doing the bidding of the right economically’, the Labour Party split in two.
Just as the puppet masters of Douglas and Prebble planned.
Supporting a nuclear free pacific was our own self interest at its finest.
And fair enough too. We had seen the evidence of what a couple of nuclear bombs could do, in old WW2 footage.
We havent really seen what climate change will do to us and to our lifestyles, so our self interest warning beacon isnt actually going off. And we are told that the cost of putting climate change right, is a huge raise in the cost on our power bill and a huge raise in the cost of filling our cars.
And our self interest in more interested in keeping warm in winter, and feeding the kids
National appears to be tightening its grip on the election, with our latest poll cementing its massive lead.
Today’s stuff.co.nz/Ipsos Political poll has National on 54.8 per cent support – a staggering 30-point lead over Labour, but down 1.7 points from our last poll.
Cementing it’s lead by being down on the latest poll?
It’s the worst performing portfolio because it’s not a real portfolio Jenny. It’s time you lot woke up. If you want this country to remain in the first world we need to stop being held back by a bunch of rope headed tie dyed combie drivers stuck in the 1960’s.
we need to stop being held back by a bunch of rope headed tie dyed combie drivers stuck in the 1960′s.
Doug
We need to stop being held back by a bunch of greasy V8 driver petrol heads stuck in the 1950’s.
Jenny
Actually Doug it is the tired old climate change deniers like yourself that are more akin to backward looking luddites dreaming of some ridiculous past “age of illusion”. It’s time you woke up. The age of fossil fuels is passing, as it must.
It is way past time for all of us to enter the 21st Century and embrace the new “clean tech.
Why no bounce in the polls from the Labour party conference do you think? Could it be that Cunliffe’s apology for being a man (perceived or not) has not gone down well?
its his MO? He pretends to be this intellectual revealling the wrong thinking of everyone who doesnt share his ideology… Because his ideology, rather than a desire for truth or factual analysis, he contradicts himself, frequently, and avoids questions which challenge him. This is why often when he seems to be answering questions he actually doesnt answer the question at all.
Gos does indeed come to stir: and every time he picks on Labour or somebody else individually. The things that get forgotten in these one on one skirmishes are:
* Its not Labour that counts, its the combined Left.
* National have so few other friends on the Right, if the polls say they have fifty plus then they are actually likely to get 45% or less. Wheres the extra 6% coming from?
So Gos, eat on it, the Right are in big trouble, and you know it.
It seems that some Labour vote is heading green. Its hardly surprising when you compare the two, the Greens are far better operators at the moment their policy release and media management are far better. They also dont have mp’s running around doing a piss poor job of communicating policy.
Yeah in my opinion that comment tended to annoy a lot of males, it just appeared flakey, I guess people would compare DC to Key and come to the conclusion that Cunliffe is not as smart as Key.
Being honest I think people look at Labour and are put off by the same old faces from the last Labour Government, it even bothers me. At least Key-National have refreshed their line up of MP’s. Should Labour fail to win office they would have to retire 50% of their current MP’s to stand any chance of wining the next election or the Greens will be the main opposition party.
tony ryall says he is embarrassed to have never been to te kuiti hospital til yesterday. Not embarrassed however at the decision regarding maternity care in te awamutu and morrinsville.
It sounded crap as a soundbyte…when played in context it made the remarks of Key and his cronies sound exactly what they are: misogynistic, patriarchal and and uncaring. Cunliffe is to be applauded, I expect that he will only gain votes.
Well yes his comments may have gone down well with some people. That does not mean it was a politically clever move when the sole goal in 2014 is to win office and remove Key and his cronies.
This is politics. And in election year it is not wise to alienate potential voters.
As an ACT or National Party member, I doubt you care …
But let’s test that supposition….
Do you think economic inequality is a problem in New Zealand?
How did you think we got into this position?
What should we do to address these problems?
Or do you think discussing polls is the most important thing we should be doing 60 days out from an election?
Why no bounce in the polls from the Labour party conference do you think? Could it be that Cunliffe’s apology for being a man (perceived or not) has not gone down well?
Gosman
David Cunliffe’s deliberate omission of the words “climate change” in his speech to the congress, (not mentioning it even once) and his refusal to give leadership on this issue now that he is leader, reeked of cowardice and backtracking on his earlier position given when he wasn’t leader.
When we look back on it, the worst crisis of the 21st century won’t be the ‘Great Recession’ since the global financial crash of 2008—it will be the ‘Great Compression’ that is coming at us because of energy shocks, climate change, population growth and resource shortage. In a book called The Meaning of the 21st Century1, James Martin likened the first half of the century to a funnel that humankind will have to pass through to reach a more sustainable future, or any future at all.
Fuelling the Flames: Fundamental to the predicament facing civilisation whereby humanity and as many other species possible must be funnelled through the fossil-fuel phase-out canyon, is population growth, not least of all in the grossly over-consuming North. More immediately, global warming is pouring fuel on wildfire events such as that raging in Waldo Canyon—aside from the heat wave, Colorado is part of the desert southwest, which is predicted to reach 1930s Dust Bowl conditions in the next several decades, and last winter the snowpack was 2% of normal, and warmer winters have caused mountain pine beetle beetles to thrive, killing 90% of some forests.
Sure, we will have to both protect dolphins and shorten dole queues, which is what you will be expecting from the title of this speech. But actually, the nature of this crisis is far deeper and more fundamental than the standard environment-economy trade-off thinking might suppose. The coming crisis threatens more than just marine biodiversity. The species we are trying to save could be our own.
In that context today I am going to say three things: First, why these risks are fundamental and in some cases life-threatening. Second, what contribution smart, clean technology and renewable energy could make to addressing the risks and providing a way forward. Third, we should not pretend that just ‘installing solar water heaters’ is going to save the planet on its own.
And fourth, how we can begin to think logically and clearly about making the tough decisions and trade-offs that are ahead of us. One thing is certain—much stronger action will be needed. Much will depend on each and every one of you, as well as on future governments.
David CunliffeJune 23, 2012 (shortly after he gave this speech, David Cunliffe’s caucus colleagues ganged up on him and dumped him to the back benches. You can’t help wondering if he was cowed by this experience.)
David Cunliffe on climate change 2014 elections (so far)
That’s terribly unfair of you Jenny! In fact such an easily disproven contention by you shows that you’re commentary is akin to some of the right wing trolling that frequents these pages.
I’m personally shocked that New Zealand is in the sights of a proposal by Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott to oppose United States plans for more progressive climate change policies.
Mr Key should move immediately to reassure New Zealanders that his government truly does ‘take climate change seriously’, has not at any level engaged on this proposal, and would reject any such initiative.
But don’t let this article or any other get in the way of you making completely unfounded claims about where Labour and the Green’s stand on climate change issues Jenny. God knows you haven’t in the past.
While admitting this is a bad poll (the Moa crap didn’t help) oddly Lab/Green/IMP/NZF at 46% still remain in touch with the motly crew Nats/Act/Maori/Cons.
Cunliffe has done plenty to keep Winston on-side and he (Winnie) is really pissed off that the Nats gave some of their question time in parliament to Horan to hassle him.
The campaign only has to shift 3% for the balance to change, and nobody believes Nats will poll 51%.
Third-rate comedian’s bewildered rant about Gaza
Has The Panel ever been more dire than this?
Radio NZ National, Wednesday 16 July 2014
Jim Mora, Michelle Acourt, Jeremy Elwood
One of the more inane habits of chat-show host Jim Mora is his frequent mentioning of the neocon New York Times columnist David Brooks. Apparently he thinks this name-checking will impress discerning listeners; this suggests he has not actually read more than a paragraph or two of Brooks’s barking mad opinion pieces.
Mora is notorious for having a high tolerance for all kinds of foolishness, as anyone will know who has heard him swallow his scruples and guffaw along with the likes of such moral imbeciles as Barry Corbett, Stephen Franks, his acolyte Jordan Williams, the contemptuously anti-democracy National Party fixer Michelle Boag, Chris “Haw Haw” Trotter, Rosemary McLeod, and Nevil “Breivik” Gibson. The list of substandard Panel guests goes on and on and on; one of these days I’ll post up the whole sorry lot.
This afternoon, Mora affected a patient, encouraging tone while professional “comedian” Jeremy Elwood used his Soapbox segment to unload a wandery, utterly bewildered rant about the latest Israeli blitzkrieg on Gaza. According to Elwood—and he took about three agonizing minutes of umming and ahhhing to spit it out—it’s not the crazed Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu that’s the problem, it’s the “extremists on both sides.” If it was a more gifted performer speaking these bizarre words, listeners might have been forgiven for thinking they were being treated to some kind of guerilla theatre prank, an exercise in the comedy of embarrassment, with Elwood assuming the character of an incoherent know-nothing. A sadder, more pathetic version of David Brent, perhaps, or one of Peter Cook’s hopeless old incompetent judges.
Tragically, however, Jeremy Elwood wasn’t doing that. He was in his deadly serious mode, which he has unleashed on listeners to this program before. It’s a mode he employs on the TV3 show 7 Days; next time you tune in, take a look at Elwood’s face when Dai Henwood or Paul Ego or Jeremy Corbett veer off into some dodgy territory; Elwood almost always glowers with a parsonical disapproval. If his other half Michele Acourt happens to be on as well, she backs him up with her own arsenal of reproachful glares and unhappy frowns.
This afternoon, Elwood unwisely chose to speak on something about which he knows little or nothing—not an unusual occurrence on this light chat show—which meant his three minutes of perplexed pontification was about as enlightening as a lecture on international law by Ban Ki Moon, as informed as a spray about justice by Garth “The Knife” McVicar and as confused as a talk about children’s rights by Christine Spankin’ Rankin.
After Elwood’s dire ramble finally ended, the host finished with an appropriately whacky segue….
JIM MORA: I read a column by Jack Tame today….
Now perhaps—just perhaps—this was clever-clogs Mora’s way of honoring the spirit of incoherent stupidity struck by Elwood, but I fear he was also, just like the hapless “comedian”, being serious.
Tame, by the way, has come into our crosshairs on more than one occasion in recent years. If you can bear it, I recommend you reacquaint yourself with some of his other columns….
A somewhat more informed opinion on Gaza than Elwood by Seumas Milne in The Guardian.
“Gaza: this shameful injustice will only end if the cost of it rises
The idea that Israel is defending itself from unprovoked attacks is absurd. Occupied people have the right to resist
‘For the third time in five years, the world’s fourth largest military power has launched a full-scale armed onslaught on one of its most deprived and overcrowded territories. Since Israel’s bombardment of the Gaza Strip began, just over a week ago, more than 200 Palestinians have been killed. Nearly 80% of the dead are civilians, over 20% of them children.
Around 1,400 have been wounded and 1,255 Palestinian homes destroyed. So far, Palestinian fire has killed one Israeli on the other side of the barrier that makes blockaded Gaza the world’s largest open-air prison.
But instead of demanding a halt to Israel’s campaign of collective punishment against what is still illegally occupied territory, the western powers have blamed the victims for fighting back. If it weren’t for Hamas’s rockets fired out of Gaza’s giant holding pen, they insist, all of this bloodletting would end.”
Paul-excellent. The problem is we don’t have a serious political programme on TV discussing Gaza like this. Instead we have reality TV and Paul sodding Henry.
It’s the extremists on both sides – very much the standard default-position for anyone who’s genuinely concerned and well-meaning about the Israeli violence they see on their TV screen, but really don’t have too much of a clue about the historical or contemporary context (and are almost certainly worried that if they fully condemn Israel – as anyone would naturally be inclined to do after seeing the carnage – then they might just be accused of anti-Semitism. Better just to say “Faults on both sides / why can’t they all just live in peace” and various other meaningless platitudes – as the world’s longest and most brutal Occupation in modern history continues to wreak its havoc).
To be fair it was Hamas who broke th emost recent Egypt-brokered ceasefire.
That’s not to say Israel isn’t mostly to blame, but Hamas isn’t helping. Failure to acknowledge that Hamas is a terrorist organisation (as distinct from the Palestinian civilians stuck in the middle) is to be unrealistic.
While it is obvious that Israel’s response is grossly disproportionate, you can’t pretend that they are not in their rights to retaliate if attacked. Catch 22.
It’s very well and good to play armchair diplomats from the safety and security of the other side of the world, and while I mostly side with the Palestinians, I’m no fan of Hamas (just as I am no fan of Hezbollah or similar groups). To understand is not to approve.
Key and Coleman are probably hoping that, if they keep their heads down, most voters won’t notice. Then in a week or so they will continue fronting for stories of mass distraction. Most MSM journos and editors will follow.
given the poll results you can see why they think that way. For all the smugness by some about being on the winning team this election,they all can only say of the PMs lies, his parade of ministers unable to comply with the cabinet manual, is nothing, or winning is what matters.
Same people who said signing a painting for charity required a PMs resignation.
Can anyone tell me what may potentially happen if you “swim” in a river that is only deemed clean enough to “wade” in? Im thinking the difference in toxicity would be quite large between “swimmable” and “wadable”
The dirty/polluted water can cause some illnesses or infections, but may not be life threatening, except for those with immune deficiencies – the latter most common amongst the young and elderly.
Skin, eye and ear infections; stomach and respiratory illnesses. Bacteria can be swallowed with contaminated water or inhaled and can also enter the body through open wounds like cuts and scrapes. The amount of bacteria a person needs to ingest or inhale before becoming sick varies.
So, instead of asking…. just google it for yourself.
hopefully karol braced herself for your pretending to not like a particular green party policy rant when u are still jaundiced by them not doing what you want over cannabis. Oh thats right, she wouldnt need to cos she is mature
Phillip likes to ‘pretend’ it supports ‘the left’, but, the amount of time ‘it’ spends undermining the parties of the left would strongly suggest that Phillip is just another ‘wing-nut’ using subterfuge in ‘its’ attacks,
The allegations, without a shred of proof, leveled at the Wellington City Mayor again this morning are akin to me accusing Phillip of being a paedophille where if i had i would rightly be called upon to provide proof of such an accusation…
Absolutely laughable Phillip, now you know exactly how the Wellington City Mayor feels when you continually publish a trail of LIES about her,
i am tho sure you will in about the time the next joint blows away a handful more of your poorly treated neurons forget that, Ha ha ha, you are never ever going to engage with me again,
Saarbo, the whole issue is fraught with nonsense, “swimmable” versus “wadable”, what crap. I have fished for years “wading” in streams…this quite often results in “swims”. Either way up until 10 years or there abouts ago I never worried about pollution.
Over the last few seasons wading in the Ruamahanga I often notice a “stain” and an “odour”….a couple of years back I got a rash on my leg from wading (I suspect). Last season a minor cut on my leg turned septic after a prolonged “wade”.
There are in my mind only binary states for a river, clean or polluted. No half stages. Advice on keeping your head above water is just bollocks.
Thanks Ennui, Im thinking you could technically probably “wade” in some of the most polluted rivers in the world…more National Party sophistry Im thinking.
The polls don’t matter
The only poll that counts is on election day
Theres plenty of time until the election to turn things around
People of the left don’t have land lines
Once people get to know the real Cunliffe the polls will improve (for Labour)
Once people get to know the real Key the polls will improve (for Labour)
Door knocking indicates a massive ground swell of support for Labour
Tell you what though this keeps up and the Greens may well become the main party of oppostion, its getting close
Hey remember Paul Roy Morgans polls are the only polls that exist apparantly
But on another matterLabour 23.5% Greens at 15%, correct me if i’m wrong but I don’t think its ever been that close between them before so not quite big brother and little brother anymore which must have an effect on negotiations
As an ACT or National Party member, I doubt you care …
OK let’s test that supposition….
Do you think economic inequality is a problem in New Zealand?
How did you think we got into this position?
What should we do to address these problems?
Or do you think discussing polls is the most important thing we should be doing 60 days out from an election?
Do you think economic inequality is a problem in New Zealand?
How did you think we got into this position?
What should we do to address these problems?
Or do you think discussing polls is the most important thing we should be doing 60 days out from an election?
Please provide your sources which persuaded it’s just a left wing beat up.
The schoolyard argument ‘more people agree with me then you’ does not count, by the way as a persuasive argument.
Yes…but you haven’t answered my question, pr.
Before coming to your opinions on inequality, had you read or watched any of the resources I listed?
And what sources have you read/viewed to help you come to your opinion?
No I haven’t read or watched as they’re discredited and of no interest to me, I prefer to see things with my own eyes rather then let a journalist tell me what to think
You have written them off without reading them or watching them? I linked you to UK academics, US policy makers and NZ academics – all experts on the field they are writing about and backed by significant amounts of research.
You writing them off does not seem to be very open-minded.
Please could you then provide me with the sources that discredited them. I would love to reach your position of enlightenment on the subject.
Reference to Slater’s blog does not count as a source, btw.
You have written them off without reading them or watching them?
Yep
I linked you to UK academics, US policy makers and NZ academics – all experts on the field they are writing about and backed by significant amounts of research.
You writing them off does not seem to be very open-minded.
I’m open-minded in some areas closed in others, this is one of the areas I’m closed-minded in
Please could you then provide me with the sources that discredited them. I would love to reach your position of enlightenment on the subject.
Reference to Slater’s blog does not count as a source, btw.
Nope sorry, I can’t be bothered googling for information on subjects that don’t interest me
Nope. Very few people agree with ACT. Some isolated religious cults might like your views on incest, and a few disturbed young men with tragic sex lives might like the selfishness explicit in your economic policies, but that’s about it.
I do recall Roger Douglas having this new economic plan which was to catapult all into a meritocracy, rather than leaving success down to who you were clever enough to have as your father.
I do recall Helen Clark pushing the line that good access to a decent education , was the way to catapult folk into a great future.
It would appear that the Douglas plan didnt achieve what it promised and it would appear that the Clark plan has resulted many more entering tertiary style education, but, not necessarily catapulting into the great future.
I gues both plans seemed legit to those who were promoting them.
Is the real problem really inequality, or just the sense of hopessness that people have? That sense that there is no pathway to a better future for your kids?
and p.r..u r a fool for making predictions when so much still has to happen…
..much much water to flow under many many bridges yet..
..amongst upcoming delights…just wait ’till the snowden-drop..when the voters will be able to read how much contempt the americans have for any idea of our sovereignty..
..and how they view key/nz much the same way a pimp regards their prostitutes..
I don’t expect National to govern alone but Roy Morgan has National 12.5% ahead of Labour/Greens and the Ipsos poll has National 17.5% ahead of Labour/Greens so on the whole its looking better for Nationa/Act/Maori then it is for Labour/Greens.IMP/Winston
“How did that ‘Governing alone’ work out three years ago…”
Scratch the Maori/Ninja Party, only you and Flavell are deluded enough to believe that they are headed anywhere but electoral oblivion,
If Labour/Green run a smart campaign in Epsom, scratch ACT, the final act befor the curtain comes down on that blight upon the political landscape should occur in a few weeks,
Scratch NZFirst, The tactical voters wont be there for Winston in 2014,
National with the ‘Hairdo’ just doesn’t quite make up the numbers, a really really big opposition tho…
… ” a party with over 40% support should be in some sort of power…”
A party that does not have the support of 60% of the voters, is not entitled to anything, other than the opportunity to work with like-minded parties to form a coalition.
Twenty years on and you are still confused about MMP?
Is power all there is to you?
What do you actually believe in?
We now know you don’t believe inequality is an problem in New Zealand.
What are the policies you do believe in…
By the way still waiting for your sources on inequality….
I believe that National is NZs best chance for everybody to improve themselves, I believe that Labour arn’t too bad but the Greens live in cloud cuckoo land and I believe that power is a means to an end
Puckish is simply confused about ‘everything’, polls being the latest bright and shiny thing that ‘its’ magpies pea brain has attracted ‘it’ to,
If you take National’s polling leading into the 2011 election and compare it with the actual result as the comment below does, a different picture begins to emerge,
If the same loss of traction occurs between the polls and actual vote in 2014 that occurred in 2011 then National is likely to gain at best 44% of the party vote in September,
+100 …Great New Yorkers are coming out for the Palestinians….it is atrocious what is happening to the Palestinians in their own land and the persecution of their democratically elected government
..it is hard to believe the crimes against humanity being perpetrated by a people who should of all people know better
I see Israel have agreed to the ceasefire and as yet Hamas have not, what do you think the chances are of Hamas not firing more rockets into Israel while the ceasefire is on, regardless of whether the ceasfire is in place on both sides or not
WTF?
Maybe i should have said whether both side agree to it of not, but im sure you got that eh ?
Actually now its being reported Hamas has also agreed, will be interesting to watch if they actually manage it for a whole 5 hrs
Actually all of that and more has beeen commented on previously on this site so no real point in rehashing it all, im just curious to see if both sides adhere to the ceasefire and if it might be the start of another permanant one, i can see Israel sticking to it yet somehow doubt Hamas will
Israel is an occupying power with nukes and the US war machine behind it while the Palestinians are penned up in a tiny area with very little resources, not even drinkable water now thanks to the dirty filthy Israeli military.
Cease fires are virtually meaningless when the Israelis can just flick the switch when it suits them and go back to their old ways “Carry on Butchering”. This will be over if economic pressure is put on Israel by consumers and suppliers and the US pressured hard enough to reduce and then withdraw aid. It worked for the other Apartheid state.
TG +100…it is a land grab by the Israelis and the Palestinians know it…the Israelis will be tried by history just as others have been….and there will be questions about how ‘crimes against humanity’ were allowed to happen..
@Paul
I thought Guy Le Spinner was showing improvement the other day.Didn’t hear Russel Norman.
Turned off after the Mexican news of 500 girls and boys being in an orphanage that sold sex etc. Bad and only when it gets to 500 can we stir ourselves to care. I couldn’t stand it.
Serious question here, can the Stuff Ipsos poll be believed at all? http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10275359/National-holds-on-to-huge-lead
When you break the voting down to regions it is saying Canterbury has National at 59.1% support, yet everything I personally see in the media around Canterbury is anti-National, anti-Gerry Brownlee, and shit is just not getting sorted, STILL!
Either the MSM is running a anti-Government line in Canterbury, or Stuff have fallen onto a pocket of National voters in their calling and this poll is, to be direct, fucked.
I know Canterbury isn’t just Christchurch, but surely if the re-build is going as badly down there as is being reported, a backlash against the Government would be widespread. Or have the MSM (especially John Campbell) just found a ratings winner and run with it?
True, but you would still expect a bigger dent in National’s support from Christchurch itself. Surely they made up a significant % of the Canterbury votes based on population. Unless this poll is fundamentally flawed.
Campbell Live keeps running stories which suggest a significant number of the population are disenchanted with EQC, Insurance companies and the government.
Yes we are disenchanted with the injustices with EQC and the insurance companies particularly.
But we also see Liane Dalziel as mayor struggling to change much at all. We have a general fear that a Labour lead Government will be no more effective than Lianne has been.
The rural towns of Canterbury seem to be doing very nicely and will be strongly blue once again.
That’s not the point The Lone Haranguer. People just aren’t seeing on the ground the support for National that these polls are suggesting. It’s something that I’ve also noticed, being that it’s hard to find anybody in my local electorate who actually supports the current government.
It’s similar in the New Zealand Blogosphere, whereby left wing bloggers outnumber right wing bloggers by a whopping 260% or 109 to 30. How do you explain such inconsistencies?
Jackal, that is what I would expect, low support on the ground for National in Christchurch, which makes me think the Stuff Ipsos poll may not be as rosy for National as it looks.
With regards to: “It’s similar in the New Zealand Blogosphere, whereby left wing bloggers outnumber right wing bloggers by a whopping 260% or 109 to 30. How do you explain such inconsistencies?”
The two most viewed NZ blogs are Whaleoil and Kiwiblog, so it simply suggests that there are more people on the ‘Left’ trying to share their views, it doesn’t suggest there is more support for the ‘Left’.
You cannot tell whether a blog is being viewed by more people who support left or right wing politics Bob. Many of the hits on sites like Cameron Slater’s will come from left wing viewers don’t you know.
You can however say that because there are more left wing bloggers than there are right wing bloggers there’s more support for left wing politics in the blogosphere. The concept that left wing people are more motivated to blog doesn’t explain the huge 260% difference.
This is just one more example of why the polls and perhaps even the election poll itself might not be accurate.
Im in Brownlees electorate. I find the locals think the Nats are doing an okay job in very trying circumstances. And that it would be disloyal to change teams now.
I would expect the Labour/Greens/IMP grouping to win more party votes in Chch than the Nats on 20 September.
Regarding blogger numbers, I guess it reflects politics really – a few RW blogs, and a heap of LW ones which suggest one of three things:
The LW bloggers are fragmented group who cant actually work together successfully
The LW bloggers like the sound of their own voices at lot (Whoar)
The RW dont need bloggers because apparently, they already have the MSM (I learned that here)
Actually I’ve counted blogs like The Standard and The Daily Blog as one blog author, so it’s a very rough estimate. Don’t have time to do an exact comparison.
The fact that TDB has over forty different people blogging while right wing blog sites like Kiwibog and FailOil apparently only have one (bar catcus Kate) shows them to be “fragmented”. There are clearly more co-operative blogs on the left.
Your contention that the MSM has more right wingers is perhaps feasible, but you would need to compare the exact amount of left versus right wing journalists?
I think a lot of those on the right voted for a fresh start in Chch, with the mayoral elections. Im not sure that they now feel that they are seeing too much progress – apart from Ms Dalziel being honest about what we now can, and can not afford. I have no doubt that the Christchurch mayoralty is a pretty thankless task.
Her bigger risk will be her voters from the East, who are not getting what they thought they would be getting when she was voted in.
Epsom voters for national, keep voting for ACT, no matter how many of their MPs get done for fraud. There is none so blindly self interested as a National voter. Also, the biggest complaints in CHCH arent from right wing areas… they are all pretty good by now, and their rental investments are doing even better.
National Party’s poll ratings over the last month: 50%…..50%…….57%…….50%…….50%……..48%…….51%…….55% = 51.3 average
National Party’s poll ratings at same distance from election in 2011:
57%……..57%…….51%…….54%…….56%…….57%…….56% = 55.4 average
(I might add, on top of this, that the 55% and 57% in recent weeks have both been Fairfax-Ipsos. No other polling Company has had them close to that. Make of it what you will)
National received 47% at 2011 Election (down 8 points on their polling this far out). Sooooo………
National will receive what ? at 2014 Election ? 51% minus 8 points is ………..? What’s the answer, Puckie ?
Thanks Swordfish. That gives me a glimmer of hope.
I guess Labour’s poor polling is to be expected considering the unrelenting attacks on Cunliffe in MSM over the past month, and the improvement in the Green vote in the Roy Morgan poll is a relief. I still cannot fathom why the Nats and Key get support from so many people.
dont under estimate the powering of marketing. People buy all kinds of things they dont need, or didnt even know they wanted, because of advertising. National has a master in manipulation of people in crosby textor
This is my response to the polls: on Saturday I shall go out door-knocking. On September 20th, the polls will turn out to have been a true or false indicator. If they prove true, this will suggest that the people who are not too troubled by Pike River, Christchurch, Glen Innes and much else, outnumber those who are, and who are scared for themselves and others. This will disappoint me, and cause me to wonder whether staying in NZ for me would be a bit like staying at a party at which I am not welcome. But for now, I shall go door-knocking and urge others to vote left. For me, to paraphrase Socrates, it is not about some small matter (like polls) but about how we shall live our lives.
If Labour/Greens lose for the reasons Olwyn has stated, then it is a terrible indictment on the majority of New Zealanders. It will show that the politics of avarice, selfishness and total disregard for the rights of others has become the new political mantra. In other words… the politics of the individual and the rest of you can go to hell in a hand basket.
The result will be catastrophic on so many levels and yes Jenny, global warming is a huge part of it. It will probably start with the USA falling over and the domino effect will kick in immediately. And you know what? I don’t have a tot of sympathy for any of them – including their children who will have to try and pick up the smashed pieces. I might add that includes members of my family who have become slaves to the “individualism is best belief model”.
“..It will show that the politics of avarice, selfishness and total disregard for the rights of others has become the new political mantra. In other words… the politics of the individual and the rest of you can go to hell in a hand basket…”
nine yrs of the clark labour govt. bedded that in..
..and so well prepared the ground for the pogrom on the poor being run by ‘ladders’ bennett…
..just ignoring the poor..has become the new norm..
..but it’s nothing that new..
..and all i recall there being said on that subject during those nine years..was nothing..
..the silences were deafening..
..the poor became the forgotten/ignored ones..
..everyone pretended the poor were just waving..not drowning…
Phillip I think you are too hard on Helen Clark’s government. It seems to me that governments at the present time are forced to act under considerable constraints – they have to borrow money to do things, and the conditions for this borrowing seem to include following quite a narrow economic line. That Labour government, and it seems also the present contender, saw increasing savings as a way of gaining some sort of choice in the matter. However, Clark’s government did not follow the line with anything like the mafia-esque zeal of the present lot, and people did not live in fear under her watch. In fact the poor man in Wellington who rang the police the night she lost the election, and who was roundly mocked by the media, showed some foresight as to what lay ahead.
51% minus 8 points is ………..? What’s the answer, Puckie ?
The answer is National + Act + Maori Party = 3 more years for National and if needed theres good ‘ol Peter Dunne as well
But keep believing in the delusion that there will a massive, organic rising up of dissatisfied voters that will surge to polls and sweep in the left all while singing raise the red flag 🙂
Ahhh, a bit of a panicky reply there, sweet-pea. Not convincing at all. “a massive organic rising up of dissatisfied voters that will surge to polls” That’s nothing more than the panic-ridden gibberish of a man who’s just been caught out and hasn’t got an answer.
(Unintentionally) hilarious stuff.
No, Puckie, unlike you, my analysis remains firmly grounded in cold, hard, real polling stats. After soaring in the polls for an extremely long time, the Nats suddenly went into a nose-dive in the run-up to not only the 2011 but also the 2008 Election. Facts, my wonderfully colourful Tory chum, facts.
Fact: National won the last two elections
Fact: All the leading polls (including Roy Morgan) put National of Labour/Greens ahead by a considerable amount
Now then you can say whatever you like but it doesn’t change the fact that National is in a stronger position in the run up to the next election then Labour/Greens are
Your contention is essentially that National’s poorer Poll position at the moment vis-à-vis 2011 doesn’t really matter because it’s superseded by the fact that “All the leading polls…put National of Labour/Greens ahead by a considerable amount.”
Now putting aside the obvious gibberish contained within that outrageously tortured sentence, you’re going to have to deal with this:
(1) Percentage point gap between National and combined Lab+Green in recent polls….10…….9…….22…….10…….9…….8…….11…….18 = average 12 points (once again, bear in mind the big gaps – 18 and 22 – are in the somewhat iffy Fairfax-Ipsos polls – they starkly contrast with all the others)
(2) Percentage point gap between National and combined Lab+Green in polls at same point in 2011…….20…….23…….9…….16…….18…….21…….19 = average 18 points
Fact: National did not win the last two elections. They were, however, able to form majority governments with the assistance of ACT, UF and the maori party. All 3 of those parties are on life support as a result of the association.
(1) Both Rob Salmond and Puddleglum have demolished that argument on their respective blogs.
(2) On top of that, not even Key or Joyce, let alone Farrar or Whaleoil, have made the Nats stayed at home argument for 2008. You’re suggesting 2008 was considered a done deal by ordinary National voters, are you ? An Election where the Nats slipped in by the skin of their teeth and where the very last, highly publicised, poll of the campaign put the Left slightly in front. And yet the average Tory voter was yawn yawn blasé ? Don’t think so, sweetness.
Fascinating how even in the face of factual contradiction of their “belief” they obsficate to create a new variation of their belief. It is hard for anyone to admit they have been lied to and duped. It seems some consider it better to keep looking foolish.
I agree that swordfish neatly demonstrates that National’s current high poll numbers; “won’t translate into votes on election day”, once the undecided & nonrespondent choose which box to tick.
You are the only one here who thinks that is a shame though.
Swordfish was giving a factual analysis of this poll, past polls and how that might or might not reflect the outcome on election day… PR contribution is a kid of na-na-na-na-na.
Maybe we have a day here when no one replies to posts by PR! Gosman, srylands, etc and see how the day turns out.
What a shiny crystal ball you have there PR! Be careful, your confidence may just come back to embarrass you on 20th September.
TRP has made a good point about the weakness of The Maori Party, Act and UF. You need to pay attention to that and just how close and tight things might be on the day.
Lol, and as for good ol’ Dunne as you put it, above, don’t count your chickens, he has become increasingly unpopular amongst the residents of Ohariu over the last 3 years.
Swordfish, I am desperate for a change of government and I admire your confidence, but really?
Is our confidence now based on historic poll trends and a hope that people who don’t care, will come and vote left. That my friend does not fill me with any confidence whatsoever.
There is no excitement about an alternative government, no underlying theme that there is time for a change.
This is a destructive government that should be easy to defeat. Yet Labour’s campaign looks like a train wreck proceeding in slow motion. Heck they still focussing on things like fucking Kim Dotcom.
swordfish is posting an analysis of the polls to show how they may not reflect an accurate view of the electorate. That is nothing to do with having confidence or not.
The police have appointed special Maori unit with targets to bring Maori crime rates down or something.
Targets? Why can’t the outcomes be termed as a monitored projects and practicesa that show a steady decline. These to be discussed monthly by the team who can introduce mini projects on a short term basis. The kaupapa is that all is to be done firmly, fairly with a view to gaining co-operation, leading to law-abiding and positive activity in the group we will work with.
Otherwise targets give moral hazard. See The Wire for a scenario where stats are being manipulated, effort made where it will be appreciated by the bigwig in charge who is running for higher office. Oops do we have that now? If so stop it!
Danger danger, every time I hear “special” and “ethnicity” at the same time lots of nasty thoughts pass through my KGB trained mind….like the thinking by somebody (not us but) called “us” and “we”:
–once “we” have made an ethnicity special we can “target” “them”….
–“they” are “special” so they need “special treatment”…….
–now we can identify the “ethnicity” as “special and distinct” they can become “they”…aka not us.
Now would it not be nice if there was not a “special” unit set up by the Police to “target” “white” “middle aged men” who commit terrible financial crimes against the rest of “us”. Necessary actually but might be promoted like a cup of cold sick in the papers (owned by the same bunch).
Targets can be achieved easily as we see by fudging the figures. Not only in crime but in emissions and pollution of rivers and numbers in work and … Oh its a great thing to set targets! It looks as if you actually care!
Canterbury
There are parts of the city that aren’t doing well. But there’s nothing new in that
Waimakirri selwyen and Ashburton district are doing very well
Due to cows and population movement from chch
The media will highlight some poor bugger who dosent have a job in east chch living in a crap house
When down the road in rollestown the town is growing rapidly and workers are hard to find
The media are the opposite of pr company’s
A pr company will find a story and put a positive spin on it
In media misery sells
Be it garza ,car crash etc
It’s not that bad down here
IPCA should be given its correct title, PACA–Police Arse Covering Authority.
Ordinary citizens might try and defend their next offence notice or charge with “I went with the advice I was given” or even “didn’t realise I was breaking the law”.
My attempt at humour obviously went over some heads; n.b. those charged with dispensing the law to others should have a damn good understanding of it AND apply it.
The security services and coppers just chose to ignore the law in respect to illegal snooping on Dotcom and others because it suited them to do so and they thought they could get away with it until a slip up by one of their own in court which first implicated the GCSB in the Dotcom raid and wider case.
And despite the digital era and 5 Eyes posturing traces of the bungling “pie and Penthouse” culture of the security forces seems to persist if the Herald obtained emails are anything to go on.
Kathryn Ryan continues with her high quality broadcasting
(That was a joke, by the way) Nine to Noon, Radio NZ National, Thursday 17 July 2014
Believe it or not, that glib, complacent waste of space Kathryn Ryan went “live” to Radio NZ political editor Brent Edwards this morning, to discuss the report on the government’s illegal spying into New Zealand citizens. Incredibly, she referred to it as “allegedly illegal spying”, as if the chief government spin-meister Steven Joyce himself was hovering menacingly behind her. Brent Edwards, clearly flabbergasted by what she had said, restrained himself from contradicting her on air, but went out of his way to immediately reiterate that it was illegal spying. It was as close to an on-air correction he felt able to carry out.
I sent Ryan the following email, but I’m not expecting either a serious or coherent answer from her….
It was not “allegedly” illegal spying, as you incorrectly said
Dear Kathryn,
When talking to Brent Edwards, you spoke (perhaps unwittingly) of the “allegedly illegal spying” by the government.
Brent Edwards corrected you pointedly on air by immediately repeating the fact that it was illegal spying, not “allegedly” illegal spying.
I am disappointed that you are not more rigorous in your on-air comments. You occupy an influential broadcasting position; you have a duty to be fair and accurate in your comments.
And yet you yourself refused to acknowledge, or apologize, when you blatantly used Barrack Obama’s middle name as if it were some sort of slander in one of your tedious ‘list of liars’ updates, despite not having previously used any leaders middle names, or indeed Obama’s middle name the previous time you’d featured him in the list.
Subsequent updates showed you’d taken the criticism and removed his middle name, but never commented on what you did.
And yet you yourself refused to acknowledge, or apologize, when you blatantly used Barrack[sic]Obama’s middle name as if it were some sort of slander in one of your tedious ‘list of liars’ updates
Could you explain for those of us on Planet Earth how using his middle name would slander him? You will no doubt be writing to the President to upbraid him for slandering himself during his own inauguration….
….despite not having previously used any leaders[sic]middle names, or indeed Obama’s middle name the previous time you’d featured him in the list.
It was a stylistic flourish, nothing more, nothing less. Now, you just go right ahead and prove that I was trying to mobilize some of the anti-Islamic morons that lurk on this site. I look forward to your (no doubt impressive) exegesis.
Subsequent updates showed you’d taken the criticism and removed his middle name, but never commented on what you did.
I removed it because there was no good reason to keep it. I didn’t comment on it because it was an utterly trivial matter, signifying nothing. You, though, I have no doubt, will now prove irrefutably that I was engaged in a brutal assault on Obama’s reputation, along with my good friends Rush Limbaugh, Donald Trump and Leighton Smith.
Oh yes indeed.
Why is that, Morrissey?
I’ll leave that complex explanation up to you, my scholarly friend.
I’m half way through “Tragedy at Pike River Mine: How and why 29 men died” by Rebecca MacFie.
If you have questions about how the management and operations at Pike River Mine which was meant to be “a showcase of modern mining” got to be so bad that 29 workers were killed I recommend you read this book.
The research that has gone into the book is incredibly thorough. The history, steps and processes of the mine’s management are clearly spelled out as the miners go “marching to calamity” (which is the title of chapter 8).
It’s written in a way that is accessible for most readers – it will cause a reaction for most I should imagine though. It took me awhile to get through the prologue, I was in tears. Anger follows that as you begin to see how avoidable that disaster was.
Rosie, i will assume that the book goes into full detail and draws conclusions for its readers, while you are reading that book consider for a moment after the conclusion has been read that no-one has canvassed any ‘opinion’,(that i know of), suggesting that the first explosion at Pike River might well have been deliberate, an insurance job in other words for a mine that had come to realize that the golden seam of high value coal supposedly underground at Pike River did not exist,
To all extents and purposes the mine was facing insolvency and could not meet its targets to fill impending orders for which ships had been dispatched to collect,(even trying to buy coal from Solid Energy to fill such orders),
In His evidence to the Royal Commission the South African electrician, sent into the mine after the initial explosion, a man of 27 years experience in South African mines said, ”there was a strong smell of burned diesel in the mine, i have smelled this after the use of AMFRO explosives in mines in South Africa”,
Strangely no-one, as if they had agreed not to, bothered to ask the South African electrician any further questions about this smell,
The mine manager on the day, sorry the names of the players escapes me, in His evidence said that ”From the carpark of the mines office building, a kilometer from the mine, He smelled a strong smell of burned diesel”, this was after the mine had exploded, again no-one asked of Him what He thought could have been the cause of this burned diesel smell,
Methane Gas, the supposed cause of the initial mine explosion has when combusted no detectable odor,
The ‘investors’ in the Pike River Coal Company picked up a reputed $100 million insurance payout, i do not know if the book goes into these details, food for thought…
I would not exactly drop that kind of speculation into a conversation just about anywhere bad.
Read the book for a start, it is very moving and full of detail.
Any “deliberate” contributing actions would be in the areas of industry de-regulation, safety and anti unionism.
That’s a rather ‘dull’ critique of my comment Tiger Mountain, i do not need to read a book to get the facts of what occurred t Pike River, i read the evidence given to the Royal Commission which i suggest you do,
Is there a ‘fact’ you wish to dispute from within my comment above or are you here to simply whine,
Which ‘speculation’ are you suggesting i do not drop into just any conversation and why, do you doubt that when combusted Methane Gas has no odor,
Are you perhaps suggesting that both the Pike River Mine Manager on the day of the first explosion at the mine, and, the electrician sent into the mine after the initial explosion either did not smell a strong smell of burned diesel or did not give evidence to that effect to the Royal Commission,
Speculation my arse, i have simply made an inference from the evidence given…
Speculation and inference are often synonyms, Bad. Where inference trumps speculation is the quality of the facts relied upon in making the supposition. In your case, you have leapt from two people* noting a smell of burning diesel after a huge explosion and consequent fire into a bizarro world claim about a conspiracy to commit mass murder for no actual financial gain**.
*We’ve only got your word that these two said any such thing. You used quotation marks, yet no such quotation exists. I call bullshit. Cite, please.
** The insurance payout did not financially benefit the shareholders and under our laws they were protected from the negative consequences of merely shutting the mine down. So why the fuck would they need your sad fantasy?
You are as usual full of shit TRP, the first piece of shit was the ‘huge explosion’ and fire,
The first explosion was not huge and there was no visible fire until after the subsequent explosions some days later,
The rest of your blather is just that, you obviously haven’t read anything about Pike River and probably got all your pathetic knowledge from the Tee Vee,
i might get around to digging out the link to the Pike River Royal Commission’s pages of evidence later TRP, but, seeing its you demanding such i would suggest you do not hold your breath,(then again maybe you should)…
You’re lying, Bad. Not only have I read the evidence, and pored over the report, I even attended some of the hearings. Nowhere in the evidence is there a reference to “burned diesel”. If there was, you’d have fronted up with it already. You’re a coward and a liar. You can’t even name the men who you claim said there was that smell, let alone provide evidence that they said it. Which they didn’t. The only quotation you have provided (”there was a strong smell of burned diesel in the mine, i have smelled this after the use of AMFRO explosives in mines in South Africa”) you wrote yourself. If I’m wrong, you’ll have no difficulty proving it; it’s all online.
Yes, the mine was heavily indebted to it’s investors including NZ Oil and Gas and a U.S lender, Liberty Harbor. Borrowed millions were bled away trying to get the mine built and running. A rosy glow was presented to investors that magnified production expectations and made light of the very serious issues, such as the collapse of the lower part of the ventilation shaft during construction. (thats only one example)So they kept on giving, they didn’t have the full picture. The lure of forecast $$$ must have been to great for them to question the reasons for the delay and budget blow outs.
The book goes into great detail about the dire financial position the mine was in.
I doubt 29 men were murdered for the sake of an insurance payout however.
Pike was a highly gassy mine and despite the experienced and safety conscience crew (which was also made up of inexperienced poorly trained men) the odds were stacked against them as Whitall ignored the huge amount of formal hazard notices piling up in the office.
One time, a new Aussie miner came to work in the mine before it was even in partial production, they were still building the 2.3km stone tunnel that led to the coal face. Without warning flames went over head, across the ceiling of the tunnel. The chipping of the stone from the roadheader machine used to dig the tunnel created sparks that ignited methane that was seeping out of rock. This occurred 10 times before anything was done about it.
He commented that in Aussie under their mine regulations such a near miss would mean immediate stop work and the evacuation of the men. He was one of many who after trying to reason with whitall about the dangerous conditions of the mine, left, disillusioned. Once again this is only one example of the the danger the men worked in daily and of managements inability to mitigate hazards and protect the workers from harm.
Under these conditions it was inevitable that there was going to be loss of life.
Have a read of the book, it’s probably available at the Kilbirnie library. The author simply provides the reader with the facts and reports the conversations she had with those she interviewed.
i read all the evidence given to the Royal Commission thanks Rosie, what you will notice everywhere is that no attempt by anyone has ever been made to explain the burned diesel smell which both the mine manager on the day and the electrician gave evidence of smelling,
The South African electrician even described it as the same as AMFRO explosives, as i point out above Methane Gas when combusted is odorless…
I understand there is additional info in the book that wasn’t aired during the Royal Commission of Enquiry, the author interviews for example.
I haven’t finished the book yet so don’t know whether the S.A electricians description of the burnt diesel /explosives smell is included. As such I’m reluctant to speculate where that smell may have originated from. I will let you know if it is covered though, as I get further into the book.
I’m remain doubtful that it could have potentially been an insurance job, given what I have read so far and given that would be mass murder.
Oh i see your point Rosie, to all extents and purposes that mine was a bomb waiting for a spark to ignite it, on at least half the 40 days leading up to the explosion the level of Methane in the mine was such that it could have exploded at any time a spark was struck,
During this 40 days ‘the Board’ had tasked someone to ‘find’ money to keep the mine running from outside sources as the major shareholders had balked at putting in any more coin, this fund-raising failed,
my question, did persons unknown get tired of waiting for the inevitable to occur,
Definitely let us know what the book concludes if anything Rosie,(and if either of the witnesses evidence of the burned diesel smell rates a mention, my guess it wont)…
No, it should have read “ANFO”. So that’s a red flag right there.
Secondly, the fact that methane burns without odour (no idea ifthat’s true or not) does not mean that there are no other combustible hydrocarbons in an active coal mine. Any mixture of which might smell similar to burned diesel.
Yeah, I’m not really convinced that you have enough dots strung together to go public and trample over graves with your theory just yet…
How about you knock yourself out, fool? It’s your claim, why don’t you show us the evidence? You posted a busted link, btw. But the actual transcripts don’t back your fantasy up anyway, so I can understand why you won’t front.
So tell us TRP seeing as you claim oracle status, you of course are LYING, you were never anywhere closer to the Pike River Royal Commission than your TeeVee,
You tell us all exactly what the South African electrician said in His evidence, you having poured over every word of it should be able to quote Him verbatim…
TRP, next you will be telling me there was no evidence given about the smell of cordite,
Now who is the fucking Liar TRP, it was Commissioner Bell that used those words to Strydom the South African electrician now why do you not quote the whole of (17 through to 20) the exchange between Commissioner Bell and the South African electrician Strydom for the readers,
Probably because when the whole exchange is quoted you are shown to be a bullshit artist right…
Sweet. ‘cordite’. You’ve finally found the real transcript, as opposed to the one in your head. But to be fair, I mistook a Q for an A, so, indeed it was the question from Bell from which I quoted. My bad, bad.
See, that’s how you admit a mistake. It ain’t hard.
Now how about you find the quotes from the two separate witnesses claiming “burned diesel”. If it’ll help, here’s your quote:
“there was a strong smell of burned diesel in the mine, i have smelled this after the use of AMFRO explosives in mines in South Africa”
Ah, I love the smell of bullshit in the morning. Smells like … burned diesel.
Te Reo Putere(to the truth), that really takes the cake doesn’t it, You in a headlong rush to wave your shriveled dick around as the ‘winner’ deliberately carve three words off of a question asked by Commissioner Bell and then attribute these three words to the South African electrician Strydom,
Caught out with your grand little LIE you then try to pass this off as an innocent mistake,
That might have been believable if at the same time you had of fessed up to the fact that Commissioner Bell and the South African electrician Strydom were discussing at the time the smell of EXPLOSIVES in relation to what Strydom had smelled in the Pike river mine on the day in question,
The fact that you did not make this confession, obviously straight after having read the exchange between Bell and Strydom makes you the cynical LIAR of note in this discussion,
Why did you carve off these particular words in an attempt at spreading a LIE Te Reo Putere(to the truth)”isn’t a diesel smell” from that quote, why did you not publish the whole question from Bell to Strydom,
Here let me help you with that, just so readers can get a proper sense of what you are deliberately LYING about,
”I mean to me Cordite isn’t a diesel smell, its more a smell to do with explosives, would–is that because of your South African experience with explosives or” unquote Commissioner Bell,
Now Te Reo Putere(to the truth), why do you not play the next verse in this song, how bout you publish the first six words of the answer that Strydom the South African electrician gave as an answer to Commissioner Bell….
You’re a sad wee fuck, bad. The weird thing is that if you’d actually checked, you could have run your fantasy around cordite, but instead you chose to make up “burned diesel” and invent a quote to justify it. Bullshit and Diversion. It’s all in your head, son. Get help.
So Te Reo Putere(to the truth), you now hide your LIES behind a gushing of infantile abuse,
Why cannot you answer the question Putere(to the truth), its simple enough even for you, after all ”you spent hours poring over the evidence”(fucking LIAR),
Here let me help you again, first with the question from commissioner Bell and second, just to make things clear for the readers, the first six words that Strydom the electrician gives as an answer to Bell’s question,(we will get around to why Bell is asking Strydom the question later, and later still we will get to the Mine Manager,(White’s), evidence of the heavy burned diesel smell),
Q, ”i mean cordite to me isn’t a diesel smell, its more a smell to do with Explosives, would — is that because of your South African experience with explosives or” unquote Commissioner Bell,
A, ”The smell is yes with explosives” unquote Strydom the South African electrician first into the mine after the original explosion,
Now why do you think Commissioner Bell is asking Strydom such questions Te Reo Putere(to the truth),
going off half cocked isn’t really going to achieve anything, is it, B?
You’re pissing around with a conspiracy theory that has no motive, no evidence (other than someone maybe comparing the smell to something else), and relies on previously incompetent mine management being able to competently kill 29 workers and get away with it.
“………….and relies on previously incompetent mine management being able to competently kill 29 workers and get away with it.”
(Shee -it. Didn’t mean to spark off an upset.)
Except to say with my ordinary person’s understanding of the events at Pike River, that it can only come down to the above. People died because their management were completely incompetent in their ability to be proactive in regard to H&S in such an inherently dangerous workplace, one worse than other mines.
Adding a personality like Whitall, arrogant, bullying and single minded, but charismatic enough to bluff the big guys, reduced the chances of the workers of even having a half a chance to protect themselves from the dangers they knew were so apparent.
Rosie: I agree. But there’s a world of difference between that and bad’s implication of a deliberately set explosion that killed 29 people (“AMFRO” plus insurance payout on a failing mine).
Lolz relax Rosie, TRP has these little goes at me occasionally,(even to the extent that when i trot off to bed ‘it’ exercises ‘its’ overblown ego by declaring itself the winner),
Mac has long been the second string in the two string fiddle that TRP plays…
Bloody hell Bad12, you sure it’s only tobacco you’re growing there…
You may have the bones of a half decent fantasy there, but out of respect for the families I think you should remove any similarity to the pike river disaster.
And when you say “…..headlong rush to wave your shrivelled dick around” and “wanker McFlock…” along with all that other trash you normally save for Mr. Ure it’s a bit too late to then accuse others of “infantile abuse”.
Now we know you are working at achieving your target weight but it might be time to put down the pump phillip loaned you 🙂 and pick up a couple of toffee-pops or something..
p.s. look at McF and TRP as you would a friend who might not tell you what you want to hear, but has valuable advice all the same.
Another OCR raise. And this while Mark Carney BoE governor says that there is no space in the economic and political reality to raise it in England. No other country is raising their OCR rates. Are Kiwi’s being fleeced so John Key’s Money trading mates can have a bit of a flutter?
Not a conventional one. I’m not going to watch them play football and go to school plays and that. I didn’t want my parents to do that, not that they ever did. Dad did watch me box once. Thankfully I won. No, I won’t tell you how many I’ve got. Millions of daughters. Frances is my oldest, she’s 47, and the others all end up going to live with her or the others, at some time. All the ex-wives and mothers get on with each other. One of them arrived today from Australia and the gardener is picking her up from the airport. I’ll tell you what gets me – the sight of a little girl. It always puts a smile on my face. I lust after them in the sense that I wish they were mine. Amelia, my 5-year-old, is in Malaysia right now with her mother and another daughter who is 18.
Similar mr Jones, to the fascination of a little girl with a dolls house. You get all these things and people and put them in the rooms and pretend that they have a life and are part of your life. But you are always separate from them, unless you’re Alice in the Looking Glass of course and find bottles with drink me on them and change your persona. It would seem like a life-changing experience that. Though still not real.
Given the anger aimed at the demise of the Herald, a column by Russell Brown on Public Address looks at the awful writings of Bernard Osman re the alleged disaster of Auckland’s finance. Andre Aessi pointed to a column by Dr Bassett. A dodgy anti left character to me but still he writes: “The Collapse of the New Zealand Herald 12/03/2009
In case you hadn’t noticed it, the New Zealand Herald, the paper that used to claim to be the country’s premier paper of record, has abandoned this aspiration and seems intent on becoming a mere British-style tabloid. Its journalists are down to a skeleton of reporters; the sub editing (those who fit the headlines to the story below) seems to have fallen into the hands of deliberate troublemakers; and the editor, Tim Murphy, appears not to be in charge of what appears in his paper. …… and so on. http://www.michaelbassett.co.nz/articleview2.php?id=202&yh=2009&yl=2008
Swaths of provincial New Zealand could be effectively “red zoned’ as local councils are forced to abandon their shrinking and ageing communities, a new report says.
In a wide-ranging look at the country’s future, the Royal Society of New Zealand’s report, Our Futures, says difficult decisions are looming in some districts – singling out the Kapiti Coast and Horowhenua – where the population is disproportionately of retirement age, and deaths outpace births.
These decisions could include making unpopular cuts to funding for roads, schools and medical services, and even abandoning some communities altogether, similar to the “red zoning” of parts of Christchurch after the 2011 earthquake, when whole suburbs were written off as economically unviable for habitation.
The Otaki MP is responsible for Horowhenua apparently and that is Nathan Guy, previously a dairy farmer. It would be a fine example of the skewed economy that our money-making dairying rock-star economy, couldn’t support their own area’s population needs.
I saw Phil Goff on Backbenches last night and I thought he came across extremely well
Particularly when he was asked about rape culture in NZ (not an easy question), he just went for it, talking about the roastbusters and the closure of the Chch rape crisis centre.
He was miles ahead of that annoying national woman Claudette Hauiti, who seemed to have left Gareth Hughes with a bemused expression wondering how he could be standing next to anyone so daft
Green MP Gareth Hughes has announced he will retire at the election. Its understandable - he's been there ten years, and wants to actually see his children grow up rather than miss it while drowning in the toxic parliamentary sewer. But his departure is also a huge loss for the ...
Words and images by Jacqui GibsonGone are Auckland Museum’s days of doing science using a museum-centric academic approach, after Māori land rights holders Ngāti Kuri gave the museum an ultimatum.Tom Trnski holding a fossilised whale tooth from the Far North.Aussie-born Head of Natural Sciences at Auckland Museum ...
MediaWorks announced in October 2019 that it intended to sell off its struggling television business and cancel or cut back on several popular local programmes, including New Zealand Today, Married at First SightNew Zealand and 7 Days. Its radio and outdoor advertising arms are currently performing well, but MediaWorks’ ...
Westminster voting intention:CON: 44% (+3)LAB: 28% (-1)LDEM: 14% (-1)BREX: 6% (-)via @OpiniumResearch, surveyed this weekChgs. w/ 08 Nov— Britain Elects (@britainelects) 16 November 2019 This, of course, doesn't look good. Labour have been chucking big, headline grabbing policies left, right and centre ... Well, maybe not right. Left, left ...
Some readers may remember that I mentioned last year that I was applying for NZ citizenship. I filled out the paperwork and had my original citizenship interview in February. Everything went well until they discovered that, because I had spent five months in the US in 2017, I had not ...
by Deirdre O’Neill It is becoming quite acceptable for certain sections of the left to declare that people like me – women who are ‘gender critical’ – should not be allowed in leftist or anarchist spaces. Leaving aside the arrogance and implicit authoritarianism of this claim, its lack of critical ...
There is an article in The Conversation, written by Jeremy P. Shapiro (Adjunct Assistant Professor of Psychological Sciences, Case Western Reserve University), about what he sees as the psychologically-based underpinnings of three main matters that seem to vex people all around the planet. The article is titled “The Thinking ...
. . Blogger Martyn Bradbury has won his case against unreasonable search and surveillance against the NZ Police; and subsequent Police attempts to produce evidence in secrecy, in a closed Court. His case highlights a disturbing growing trend in Aotearoa New Zealand for State power to be used against ...
The Committee of Disobedient Women has intercepted an email from Dr Emma Eejut, Senior Lecturer in Sociology, Massey University to the university’s Vice-Chancellor, Jan Thomas. Dear Jan, Thank you for your courageous move. I think 10 pages of blether** should tie any of the students game enough to try holding ...
That's the only response to the findings of the Ombudsman's investigation into LGOIMA practices at the Christchurch City Council:My investigation identified serious concerns about the Council’s leadership and culture, and its commitment to openness and transparency. In particular, Council staff raised concerns with me about various methods employed by some ...
NZ First seems to be nakedly trying to enrich itself from public office:A powerful New Zealand First figure helped establish a forestry company that then pushed for money from two key funding streams controlled by a New Zealand First Minister. An RNZ investigation has found Brian Henry, lawyer for Winston ...
Behrouz Boochani is an award winning author and journalist. He is also a refugee, who for the past six years has been detained in Australia's offshore gulag on Manus Island, and in Papua New Guinea. But last night, with the cooperation of the WORD Christchurch festival and Amnesty International, he ...
Different Strokes: If a multicultural immigration policy imposes no obligation on immigrant communities to acknowledge and ultimately embrace their host nation’s most cherished traditions and values, then how is that nation to prevent itself from being reduced to a collection of inward-looking and self-replicating ethnic and cultural enclaves?THE COALITION GOVERNMENT’S ...
Protective Zone: Reading the rules and guidelines released by Massey University, it is impossible to avoid the conclusion that its governing body considers the whole concept of free speech a disruptive threat to the orderly imparting of orthodox academic knowledge.IN TRUE ORWELLIAN fashion, Massey University has announced its commitment to ...
Farmers held a hate-march on Parliament today, complete with MAGA hats, gun-nut signs, and gendered insults. While supposedly about a grab-bag of issues - including, weirdly, mental health - it was clear that the protest was about one thing, and one thing only: climate change. And specifically, forestry "destroying" rural ...
The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security released their annual report today, and I've been busy reading through it. In amongst the usual review of what they've been doing all year, there's a few interesting bits. For example, a discussion on "agency retention and disposal of information", which points out that ...
Recently more than 150 post-graduate students and young scientists presented an open letter to the Green Party via The Spinoff, encouraging them to reconsider their position on genetic modification. Their target is tackling climate change issues.[1] Can any party continue to be dismissive about genetic modification (GM) contributing to ...
by Deirdre O’Neill Under Thatcher and then Blair and continuing up until our contemporary moment, the working class has seen its culture slowly and progressively destroyed. The change from an industrial society to a service society produced a marked shift in focus from the working class as the backbone of ...
Since 2013, the Australian government has detained refugees without trial in Pacific gulags, where they are abused, tortured, and driven to suicide. The policy is not just an abuse of human rights and possible crime against humanity; it has also had a corrosive effect on the states Australia uses as ...
It seems fair to say that we currently live in a problematic political moment in world history. Democracies are in decline and dictatorships are on the rise. Primordial, sectarian and post-modern divisions have re-emerged, are on the rise or have been accentuated by political evolutions of the moment such as ...
Last month, Greenpeace head Russel Norman surrendered his speaking slot at an EPA conference to student climate activist Sorcha Carr, who told the EPA exactly what she thought of them. It was a bold move, which confronted both regulators and polluters (or, as the EPA calls them, "stakeholders") with the ...
The core principle supposedly underlying New Zealand's electoral finance regime is transparency: parties can accept large donations from rich people wanting to buy policy, but only if they tell the public they've been bought. Most parties abide by this, so we know that TOP was wholly-owned by Gareth Morgan, and ...
Today is a Member's Day, probably the second-to-last one of the year, and its a big one, with the Third Reading of David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill. last Member's Day it was reported back from committee, after MPs voted narrowly to make it subject to a (rules TBA) ...
Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change.If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nzThe growth of the human population over the last 70 ...
by The Council of Disobedient Women In her excellent oral submission to the Abortion reform select committee on 31st October on behalf of Otago University’s Department of Public Health, historian and public health researcher Hera Cook stated: “We would ask that the committee not use the term ‘pregnant persons’ and ...
by Don Franks In 1957, E M Forster wrote, of his greatest work: “The India described in ‘A Passage to India’ no longer exists either politically or socially. Change had begun even at the time the book was published ( 1924) and during the following quarter of a century it ...
The Referendums Framework Bill was due back from select committee today. But there's no report on it. Instead, the bill has been bounced back to the House under Standing order 29593) because the Committee didn't bother to produce one. They probably tried. But given the membership of the committee (which ...
Two years into New Zealand’s Labour-led government, the long-delayed Zero Carbon Bill became law on 7 November. Passed essentially unanimously, the lengthy public debates and political manoeuvring faded away until the final passage was even anticlimactic: Flipping through the @nzstuff@DomPost I was starting to wonder if I’d dreamt ...
Now the Zero Carbon Bill is law, what's next? Obviously, the ETS changes currently before select committee are going to be the next battleground. But we're also going to get a good idea of where we're going, and if the progress the Zero Carbon Act promises is good enough, during ...
Grant PearceThe effects of the current Australian bushfires in New South Wales and Queensland (and also again in California) are devastating and far-reaching. To date, the fires have resulted in several lives being lost and many homes and properties destroyed. Here in New Zealand, the impacts have been only ...
A passing comment in a post the other day about the labour force participation rates of older people prompted me to pull down the fuller data and see what we could see about various participation rates over the decades since the HLFS began in 1986. As it happens, the ...
Distract And Divert: The rise of what we have come to call “Identity Politics” represents the ideological manifestation of the ruling class’s objective need to destroy class politics, and of the middle-class’s subjective need to justify their participation in the process.THE RELIEF of the ruling class can only be imagined. ...
"I saw a newspaper picture,From the political campaignA woman was kissing a child,Who was obviously in pain.She spills with compassion,As that young child'sFace in her hands she gripsCan you imagine all that greed and avariceComing down on that child's lips?" ...
Dr Matt Boyd, Prof Michael Baker, Prof Nick WilsonThe Global Health Security Index which considers pandemic threats has just been published. Unfortunately, NZ scores approximately half marks (54/100), coming in 35th in the world rankings – far behind Australia. This poor result suggests that the NZ Government needs to ...
The Zero Carbon Act is inadequate, with a weak methane target designed to give farmers a free ride. But it turns out it could have been worse: Climate Change Minister James Shaw was so desperate to get National on board, he wanted to gut that target, and leave it in ...
The Herald reprints an Australian story on a couple of tragic deaths in Bali from drinking cocktails that had methanol in them. The story argues that methanol is likely the result of home distillation. But what the young tourists were experiencing was far from a hangover. They’d consumed a toxic cocktail ...
Last month, the police announced a trial of specialist roaming armed units, which would drive round (poor, brown) areas in armoured SUVs, armed to the teeth. When they announced the trial, they told us it was about having armed police "ready to attend major incidents at any time if needed". ...
Spain went to the polls today in the second elections this year, after the Socialists (who had come to power in a confidence vote, then gone to the polls in April) rejected the offer of a coalition with the left-wing PoDemos, and instead decided to gamble n a better outcome ...
A couple of days ago I attended (and spoke at) the University of Waikato’s “LearnFest” event. There were lots of talks and sessions on very diverse aspects of teaching, mostly at tertiary level. One was by Myra Williamson from Te Piringa Faculty of Law here at Waikato, on Contract Cheating ...
There will be a transit of Mercury – the planet Mercury will pass across the face of the Sun – taking place at sunrise in New Zealand on Tuesday, 12th November. It was by observing such an event 250 years ago that James Cook and his scientist colleagues were able ...
Since becoming the world’s first openly transexual mayor and member of parliament, Georgina Beyer has been recognised as a trailblazer for trans rights. Daphna Whitmore talks with her about where she sees the current trans movement We start out talking about legislation the government put on hold that would have ...
If FFNZ really put their faith in “Top Medical Journals” they would now be amending their billboards to recognise new research results. Image from FFNZ but updated to agree with the latest research. ...
National Messiah? Chris Luxon identifies himself as an evangelical Christian. If he is genuine in this self-characterisation, then he will take every opportunity his public office provides to proselytise on behalf of his faith. He will also feel obliged to bear witness against beliefs and practices he believes to be ...
I'm going to make a Reckless Prediction™ that the Tories have 'topped out' in the 'poll of polls' / Britain Elects multipoll tracker at about 38%, and in the next week we will start to see Labour creep up on them.In fact, we might just be seeing the start of ...
by The Council of Disobedient Women Lizzie Marvelly: “I may have missed this… has @afterellen gone all terf-y? Or am I reading something incorrectly? “ https://twitter.com/LizzieMarvelly/status/1191840059105742849 After Ellen is a lesbian website that is unashamedly pro-lesbian, as you’d expect. So why is Ms Marvelly so bothered about lesbians having their ...
Did you know there once was a time when it was illegal to be a gypsy (aka Romani) in Britain?That was between 1530, when the Egyptians Act was passed, and 1856, when it was repealed.Amongst other things, the act forbade the entry of 'Egyptians' into England, ordered those already there ...
Some days I sit and think, “what will I write…?” What do you say when you get to 1000 posts? Maybe you just start where you are, diverge to where this all began, then offer a collection of reader’s favourite posts, and a few of your own? (And throw in ...
Counter-Puncher: The “activists” and “radicals” (his own words) from the Indian community who took such strong exception to Shane Jones’ remarks about Immigration NZ’s treatment of arranged marriages, may end up bitterly regretting their intervention. Jones is not the sort of person who turns the other cheek to his critics.SHANE ...
In the spirit of Remember, remember the fifth of November, let's keep this in mind FOREVER.
Oh dear. Extraordinary interview on PM with Andrew Bridgen and @EvanHD just now. Bridgen was defending Jacob Rees Mogg’s Grenfell comments. Evan asked him if JRM had meant to say he would have left ...
Collision Course? In conditions of ideological white-out, the international bankers’ “Woop-Woop! Pull Up!” warning may have come too late to save global capitalism.WHAT DOES IT MEAN when international bankers are more willing to embrace radical solutions than our politicians and their electors? At both the International Monetary Fund and the ...
Pertussis (whooping cough) is a conundrum. It is a disease that was described hundreds of years ago and the bacteria that causes it (Bordetella pertussis) isolated in 1906. We have had vaccines for about 80 years but this disease is defiant in the face of human immunity. I wanted to ...
The Zero Carbon Bill has just passed its third reading, uanimously. In the end, National supported it - but we all know they'll turn around and gut it the moment they regain power. Meanwhile, I guess ACT's David Seymour didn't even bother to show up. I am on record as ...
Dr Lindsay Robertson, Dr Jerram Bateman, Professor Janet HoekMembers of the public health community hold divergent views on how access to vaping products or electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) products should be arranged. Some believe ENDS should be as widely available as smoked tobacco and argue for liberal ...
When the Police were trying to cover up for the National Party over Dirty Politics, they went all-in with their abuses of power. They illegally search Nicky Hager's house, violating his journalistic privilege and invading his privacy. They unlawfully acquired Hager's bank records. They did the same to left-wing blogger ...
Last month, in response to a wave of protests by Extinction Rebellion, the British government purported to ban their protests from the whole of London. It was a significant interference with the freedoms of expression and assembly, and another sign of the country's decline into tyranny. But now, a court ...
Last year, the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security reported on significant problems with the intelligence warrant system. While they were unwilling to declare any warrant "irregular" (meaning unlawful) due to the recent law change, they were also not willing to give the system a clean bill of health. Now, they've ...
The National Party has come out in support of encouraging greater vaccination uptake. But it sure isn’t the way I’d do it. National’s suggested docking the benefits of those on benefit whose kids aren’t keeping up with their vaccinations. Some in National have suggested extending that to payments under Working ...
Feeding The Flames: It is simply not enough to demand an end to “corruption”, or “inequality”, or the overbearing influence of the authorities in Beijing. These are just “lowest common denominator” demands: the sort of slogans that pull people onto the streets. They are not a plan.WHERE’S THE PLAN? Across ...
The labour market statistics have been released, and unemployment has risen to 4.2%. There are 115,000 unemployed - 11,000 fewer than when Labour took office. In that time the minimum wage has gone up by $2 an hour, which shows that the right's fears about increases causing unemployment are simply ...
The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee has called for submissions on Andrew Little's tyrannicalTerrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill. Normally I encourage participation in the democratic process. I am not doing so in this case. Instead, I encourage all of you to boycott this submissions process, and to post ...
Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change.If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nzIf tiny concentrations of carbon dioxide can hold enough heat ...
Aviation is one of the fastest growing sources of greenhouse gas emissions, and within it, one of the fastest sources is elite travel: billionaires flitting around the world in their private jets, spewing excessive pollution into the atmosphere just so they can avoid mixing with us dirty peasants. But in ...
That's what we face if we don't stop climate change, according to a warning from 11,000 scientists:The world’s people face “untold suffering due to the climate crisis” unless there are major transformations to global society, according to a stark warning from more than 11,000 scientists. “We declare clearly and unequivocally ...
by Phil Duncan Here’s just a few of the kind of threats issued day in and day out against gender-critical women – feminists, marxists, etc – overwhelmingly by MEN (albeit men identifying as women). “Kill all Terfs”. “Shoot a Terf today”. “All terfs deserve to be shot in the head”. ...
This is the third of the synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016). The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Unlike the humble cup of coffee and t-shirt that we looked at in ...
Tom MooreTraditionally a food source and cutting tool, freshwater mussels/kākahi are now widely valued as water filters that help clean our waterbodies and maintain ecosystem health throughout Aotearoa. The improvement they provide in water quality can make it easier for other animals to live in streams and rivers, as ...
And to think he gave all the potential goodwill away with that moronic, cult-like statement (repeated ad nauseam by many National hardliners) that Key is quite simply “the greatest PM we ever had”…Installation complete: this was nothing ...
The Zero Carbon Bill is back in the House today for its second reading. While this isn't the final stage, its still effectively D-Day for the bill. Because today, at around 5pm, is when we're going to find out if it has a majority, whether National will support it or ...
Winston Peters is in court today, suing a bunch of former Minister and civil servants over their pre-election leak of his superannuation repayment. He's characterised the leak as malicious, and said that it is repugnant that his information was passed on to Ministers to use for political advantage. And he's ...
Murray CoxDo I have to finish my favourite genome? That’s an often-asked question. Geneticists generally strive to produce high-quality genomes that sequence every last gene, making full use of the state-of-the-art technologies coming on stream. Sequencing DNA means determining the order of the four chemical building blocks – called ...
Jenny Marcroft MP, Spokesperson for Health New Zealand First backs the public to decide on the End of Life Choice Bill via a referendum at the 2020 General Election. The Bill, with New Zealand First’s referendum provision incorporated, passed its final reading in Parliament this evening. New Zealand First Spokesperson for ...
Darroch Ball, Spokesperson for Justice New Zealand First is proud that a key Coalition Agreement commitment which will provide for a more transparent and effective criminal justice system has been realised. Legislation to establish the Criminal Cases Review Commission, an independent body focused on identifying and responding to possible miscarriages of ...
"Today we have made a choice that will leave a legacy... I hope that means that future generations will see that we, in New Zealand, were on the right side of history." - Jacinda Ardern, Third Reading of the Zero Carbon Bill ...
Darroch Ball, New Zealand First List MP A Member’s bill has been proposed that would provide income tax exemptions for all New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) personnel while on operational deployment overseas. The Income Tax (Exemption for Salary or Wages of NZDF Members on Active Deployment) Amendment Bill proposed by New Zealand First ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, New Zealand First Leader New Zealand First is proud to have brought common sense to the Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill, which passed its final reading in Parliament today. Party Leader Rt Hon Winston Peters says months of hard work went into negotiating a balanced ...
Jenny Marcroft MP, Spokesperson for Health New Zealand First has listened to calls to recognise paramedics as registered health professionals under the Health Practitioners’ Competence Assurance Act (the Act).Today, the Coalition Government announced plans for paramedics to be registered as health practitioners under the Act, and the establishment of a ...
We began the week by commemorating the New Zealand Wars and celebrating a major increase in the number of teachers. Then, we were busy supporting offenders into work and getting our rail back on track after years of underinvestment. And that's just the start! ...
In October I was sworn in as the Mayor of Lower Hutt.It’s the privilege of my life to serve Hutt people as their Mayor. There is something really special to be able to serve the community where I was raised, and where I live. ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister for Racing Racing Minister Winston Peters met with Korea Racing Authority Chairperson Nak Soon Kim in Seoul today to discuss closer cooperation between the New Zealand and Korean horse racing industries. As part of the visit to the Seoul Racecourse, Mr Peters witnessed ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is investing $10 million to establish Otago as the centre of New Zealand’s creative digital industry over the next ten years, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. “The initiative will bring us closer to the vision of ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF)’s skills and employment programme will help young Otago people into long-term forestry careers, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. Te Ara Mahi will invest $63,000 in the 2020 school year to support eight 17 and 18 ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) will support local plans to revitalise and stimulate economic development opportunities in Otago, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has announced. The four Regional Economic Development Ministers have approved an in-principle investment of $19.9 million towards the region’s ...
Mark Patterson, Spokesperson for Primary Industries New Zealand First is pleased to have received the Technical Advisory Group (TAG) report on the Coalition Government’s Mycoplasma bovis eradication efforts, which shows significant progress in the fight against the disease. New Zealand First Spokesperson for Primary Industries, Mark Patterson, says the report’s findings ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development Hon David Parker, Minister for Trade and Export Growth The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is investing to support economic growth opportunities for Otago’s engineering and manufacturing sectors, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones and Trade and Export Minister David Parker announced today. Almost $20 million ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs Foreign Minister Winston Peters and his South Korean counterpart, Kang Kyung-wha, discussed in Seoul today opportunities to work more closely in the Pacific and the situation on the Korean Peninsula. Mr Peters and Minister Kang confirmed New Zealand and the ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development Hon Nanaia Mahuta, Minister for Māori Development The three marae in the historic Parihaka Pa complex in Taranaki have been upgraded to high speed broadband with the support of the Provincial Growth Fund (PGF), Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. “Connecting the ...
The Government has delivered on its promise to the over one million New Zealanders who now rent to make it fairer and more secure, Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing) Kris Faafoi has announced today. Both renters and landlords will benefit from the suite of practical changes to the Residential ...
A marine conservation milestone - the 20th anniversary of the establishment of Te Tapuwae o Rongokako Marine Reserve - is being celebrated today at a community event in Tairāwhiti/East Coast attended by the Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “The creation of this marine reserve in November 1999 was a game ...
The Government is asking the food industry to step up work to tackle obesity including reducing sugar, fat and salt in their products, better information for consumers, and tighter restrictions on advertising to children. Health Minister David Clark and Food Safety Minister Damien O’Connor have responded to a ...
ew, modern emergency department and outpatient facilities at Queenstown’s Lakes District Hospital mean better emergency care for the growing tourist mecca’s visitors and locals, says Health Minister David Clark. Today Dr Clark officially opened the hospital’s redeveloped Emergency Department and Outpatient facilities. The new facilities include: • An extended Emergency Department ...
Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter says today’s release of sexual and reproductive health data reinforces the significance of the Government’s commitment to providing free or very low-cost contraception. The Ministry of Health today published statistics from the Ministry of Health’s 2014/15 Health Survey. “It is important people can make ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced that at the request of the Samoan Government, New Zealand will be providing further support to Samoa as it faces a worsening measles outbreak. “In response to a request from the people of Samoa, New Zealand is providing 3000 measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) ...
“The new Disability Action Plan 2019–2023 moves us towards the inclusive and accessible New Zealand that this government has committed to,” Minister for Disability Issues Carmel Sepuloni announced today. “The Action Plan was designed by disabled people, their family and supporters, the disability sector and government agencies. It will ensure ...
Third Singapore-New Zealand Defence Ministers’ Meeting 14 November 2019 Joint Statement 1. Defence Ministers Ron Mark and Dr Ng Eng Hen today conducted their third annual Singapore-New Zealand Defence Ministers’ Meeting in Singapore. 2. Building on the Enhanced Partnership signed between both countries in May this year, this annual meeting ...
A Bill to improve the court system’s response to sexual violence has passed its first reading in Parliament today. Justice Minister Andrew Little says the Sexual Violence Legislation Bill will reduce the trauma sexual violence complainants experience in court, while maintaining defendants’ fundamental rights and making sure the trial process ...
Streamlined payment practices are a step closer for Kiwi businesses with the formal launch of New Zealand’s e-Invoicing framework. Small Business Minister Stuart Nash says the government has now established the structure to enable automated and direct data exchange between the accounting systems of buyers and sellers. “The move to ...
Another 51 quarantine officers and four new biosecurity detector dog teams will help protect New Zealand from invasive pests and diseases this summer, says Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor. “The Government is delivering on its commitment to strengthen New Zealand’s biosecurity system and support our valuable primary sector “New Zealand’s flora, fauna ...
A new report has found New Zealand’s space sector contributed $1.69 billion to the economy in the last financial year and employs 12,000 people, Minister for Economic Development Phil Twyford announced today. The report by Deloitte was commissioned by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment and shows New Zealand ...
Judge Coral Shaw has been appointed as the new Chair of the Royal Commission into Historical Abuse in State Care and in the Care of Faith-based Institutions, Internal Affairs Minister Tracey Martin announced today. "Judge Shaw, who is currently one of the inquiry commissioners, is extremely well qualified for the ...
The Government has confirmed its third major mental health facility upgrade since the Budget, this time at Palmerston North Hospital. The Prime Minister and Health Minister today visited MidCentral DHB to announce that $30 million has been allocated to upgrade its acute mental health facility. It follows earlier announcements in ...
The roll out of the National Bowel Screening Programme has reached the halfway mark, with 10 out of 20 District Health Boards now part of the programme. MidCentral DHB, which covers Palmerston North, Manawatu and surrounding districts, this week became the latest to DHB to offer free bowel screening to ...
The Government welcomes PHARMAC’s decision to fund a vaccine to protect young people from meningococcal disease from 1 December this year. “Meningococcal disease is a serious threat which people at higher risk should be protected from,” says Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter. “The combined pharmaceutical budget was increased by ...
Groups involved with innovative fisheries research projects are encouraged to apply for government support in the latest funding round from the Sustainable Food and Fibre Futures programme. Fisheries Minister Stuart Nash says the SFF Futures funding is designed to be flexible enough to support small or large projects across a ...
The Government has fixed an issue affecting how Immigration New Zealand has processed visa applications for culturally arranged marriages, which will now see a consistent process applied which ensures people with legitimate arranged marriages can visit New Zealand while also preventing any rorting of the system. Earlier this year Immigration ...
The Royal Commission into the Attacks on Christchurch Mosques will report back on 30 April 2020 to give it more time to hear submissions and consider information, Internal Affairs Minister Tracey Martin announced today. The Royal Commission was originally scheduled to report back to Government by 10 December 2019. “There has ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Washington DC today to attend a ministerial meeting focused on defeating ISIS, and to continue pursuing New Zealand’s trade opportunities. Mr Peters will participate in a meeting of Foreign and Defence Ministers from key countries contributing to the Global Coalition to Defeat ISIS. ...
The recently crowned Bird of the Year, the hoiho/yellow eyed penguin, is getting a much needed helping hand alongside more than 168 other community conservation projects announced Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage today. 168 community conservation projects throughout New Zealand are benefiting from $8 million in government grants, including $500,000 ...
Controls on assault rifles and semi-automatic firearms are to be broadened to include some types of pistols, under changes to a bill currently making its way through Parliament. Police Minister Stuart Nash has tabled a Supplementary Order Paper to the Arms Legislation Bill, which is currently before a Select Committee ...
Minister of Defence Ron Mark will travel to Singapore today to conduct a counterpart visit and to co-chair the third annual Singapore-New Zealand Defence Ministers’ Meeting with his counterpart, Minister for Defence Dr Ng Eng Hen. “Singapore is one of our most important defence partners in the region, and our ...
Nelson’s Salisbury School is to be rebuilt, creating a modern and suitable learning environment for students at the residential special school, Education Minister Chris Hipkins and Associate Education Minister Tracey Martin announced today. The school for girls aged 8-15, in Richmond, was earmarked for closure by National until the process ...
The panel undertaking a comprehensive review of the Resource Management Act has identified the main issues to be addressed and options for reform and is calling for feedback to inform its final report. In July the Government announced the comprehensive review of the resource management system, including the RMA - ...
An important safety valve has been added to New Zealand’s criminal justice system with the third reading of the Criminal Cases Review Commission Bill today. The Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) will investigate claimed miscarriages of justice. “We’ve seen how our justice system can very occasionally get things spectacularly wrong, ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters welcomes the tabling of the Racing Industry Transition Agency (RITA) 2019 Annual Report in Parliament today. He says the 2019 Annual Report marks the point when New Zealand’s racing industry’s decline was arrested and a turnaround started. RITA’s 2019 Annual Report recorded an industry net profit ...
The New Zealand Government is today sending 21 firefighters to help fight the ongoing catastrophic Australian bushfires. “The fires in Australia are in some of the toughest, most challenging conditions ever,” says Internal Affairs Minister Tracey Martin. “As of yesterday morning, there were 100 active bushfire-related incidents across Queensland and ...
More frontline support for schools through a new education agency, as part of a redesigned Ministry of Education More support for principals and school boards including through a new centre of leadership and local leadership advisor roles New independent disputes panels for parents and students Management of school property ...
The Government’s reform of the Tomorrow’s Schools system is a watershed moment in education and an opportunity to create meaningful change for ākonga Māori and their whānau, Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis said today. “Last year through Kōrero Mātauranga | Education Conversation, Māori teachers, parents, ākonga, whānau, hapū and iwi ...
Infrastructure Minister is welcoming the first of many updated project pipelines from the newly established New Zealand Infrastructure Commission today. The New Zealand Infrastructure Commission, Te Waihanga, has released an expanded pipeline of major capital projects – another crucial step towards delivering better infrastructure outcomes. “The first iteration of the ...
Tougher gun laws designed to improve public safety through firearms prohibition orders are proposed in a new document released for public input. Police Minister Stuart Nash says firearms prohibition orders (FPOs) would give new powers to Police to ensure high-risk individuals come nowhere near firearms. “We have already prohibited the ...
Andy Coupe has been confirmed as TVNZ’s new Board Chair. “Mr Coupe has strong commercial and capital markets experience and TVNZ has benefited from his technical knowledge of business and finance, as well as his extensive governance experience,” the Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media Kris Faafoi said. Andy ...
Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter today officially opened a separated pathway, following the completion of the Kaiwharawhara Stream bridge, which will improve safety for cyclists and pedestrians along Hutt Road. The $6.8m Hutt Road project provides a separated path for cycling and pedestrians, the replacement of informal parking ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters today announced the appointment of career diplomat Si’alei van Toor as New Zealand’s next Ambassador to Russia. “I’m pleased to appoint Ms van Toor to this position. She brings a wealth of experience to the role having previously served as Senior Trade Adviser to the ...
The Treasury’s 2019 Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU) will be released on Wednesday December 11, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. The Coalition Government will publish the 2020 Budget Policy Statement at the same time, outlining the priorities for Budget 2020. Further details on arrangements for the release will ...
A new initiative to better support small businesses through hands-on mentoring and advice has been launched by the Minister for Small Business. The first event in the Kiwi Business Boost series of regional workshops and online tools has been launched in Wairoa by Stuart Nash. “The Business Boost initiative combines ...
The latest Quarterly Connectivity Report shows that more and more New Zealanders are moving to Ultra-fast Broadband (UFB), with Rolleston having the highest uptake at 74 per cent, as at the end of September. “This means that nearly three quarters of Rolleston’s households and businesses have moved to ultra-fast services. ...
The passing of the Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill will help ensure a safe planet for our kids and grandkids, the Minister for Climate Change James Shaw said today. The landmark legislation which provides a framework to support New Zealanders to prepare for, and adapt to, the effects ...
The review of Oranga Tamariki practice around the planned uplift of a Hastings baby in May shows significant failings by the Ministry and that the planned and funded changes to shift from a child crisis service to a proper care and protection service need to be accelerated, Children’s Minister Tracey ...
A corporate undertaker talks top tips for making sure you get paid, reining in rogue liquidators, and having a heart for those who’ve lost money.PwC’s John Fisk has handled high profile company failures from Pike River to Lombard Finance and the Ross Asset Management Ponzi scheme. He also chairs the ...
Armed police represent a serious cause for concern, especially for the most vulnerable, writes the chief executive of the Mental Health Foundation.The Mental Health Foundation has publicly condemned the police trial of special armed response teams patrolling three districts around New Zealand. We’re extremely worried these trials will result in ...
International crime rings are increasingly targeting New Zealanders’ bank accounts to launder proceeds from scams and fraud. Bronwyn Groot, Fraud Education Manager at the Commission for Financial Capability (CFFC) is highlighting the rising incidence ...
A just-released report shows that the food industry wants to stay in a business-as-usual mode with a few minor tweaks around the edges. In response, the New Zealand Government appeared comfortable with that approach, and provided no Government plans for comprehensive ...
New Zealand consumers will be left in the dark about foods grown in Australia that have been created using gene editing techniques. On the 13 November the Australian Senator Rice put up a motion to disallow, or overturn, the recently passed Gene Technology ...
As Aotearoa plans for festive season celebrations, The Salvation Army is preparing to make its house a home to hundreds of men, women and children who have nowhere else to stay. ...
Landlords say they feel under siege with the government planning to make it tougher for them to boot out troublesome tenants; and skilled immigrants waiting for a residents visa say its unfair officials are fast tracking applications for those on salaries over $105,000. ...
Standing with the farmers, New Conservative is committed to pushing back against the lunacy of the ETS and Carbon Zero commitments by this government. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tomas Trescak, Senior Lecturer in Intelligent Systems, Western Sydney University Just a few years ago, virtual reality (VR) was being showered with very real money. The industry raised an estimated US$900 million in venture capital in 2016, but by 2018 that figure ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rowena Maguire, Senior Lecturer, Faculty of Law, Institute for Future Environments, Queensland University of Technology Over the past two weeks, bushfires have raged across New South Wales and Queensland. While the narrative appears focused on potential causes and political point-scoring, what’s lost ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Susan Davis, Chair of Women’s Health, Monash University At menopause, a woman’s ovaries lose their reproductive function. Eggs are no longer released and the production of the hormones oestrogen and progesterone falls. It’s the lowered levels of oestrogen after menopause that gives ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Julian Bolleter, Deputy Director, Australian Urban Design Research Centre, University of Western Australia Around the world, the vast majority of people are flocking to cities not to dwell in their centres but to live in the new suburbs expanding their outer limits. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dr Natalya Saldanha, Academic, RMIT University Like any eight-year-old, Ryan Kaji loves to play with toys. But when Ryan plays, millions watch. Since the age of four he’s been the star of his own YouTube channel. All up his videos have gained ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kieran Wong, Adjunct Senior Research Fellow, Monash University Indigenous voices are finally being acknowledged as important voices in Australian galleries and museums. Since 2014, I have worked as an advisor to Western Australia’s New Museum, a A$450 million project and one of ...
Retiring Green MP Gareth Hughes says the pace of change in the current Government is not fast enough for his liking but that is not the reason he is quitting politics. ...
The Superdiversity Institute for Law, Policy and Business is releasing its latest report today on Culturally, ethnically and linguistically diverse parties in the Courts: A Chinese case study . The Report’s author, Mai Chen, Chair of the Superdiversity ...
Good morning and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Doubts emerge about Auckland port move, NZDF leaves death-causing material behind in Afghanistan, and laws around renting to be shaken up.Over the last week, the ramifications of moving most of the operations of Auckland’s port north to Whangarei have been ...
An ambitious new partnership between Sky Sports and more than 50 sports promises more free sport for Kiwis. Suzanne McFadden looks at how it will change the way we see female athletes ...
Catriona MacLennan helped conduct a survey of the top NZ companies to establish the ethnicity of their directors. The results were not surprising, but also far from encouraging. ...
Episode 1 in a series on the trials of injured animals as they’re rescued, rehabilitated and released back into the wild follows the rescue of a yellow-eyed penguin. ...
New Zealand Defence Force's failed to clean up properly after itself in Afghanistan - with the result that seven children have been killed and another 10 civilians injured. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The Chinese embassy has lashed out at two Liberal members of parliament, Andrew Hastie and James Paterson, saying they would need to “repent and redress their mistakes” before they would be welcome in China. The ...
Tim Costley National’s new candidate in Otaki Local party members have selected Tim Costley as National’s candidate in Ōtaki for the 2020 General Election. Mr Costley is replacing retiring MP Nathan Guy, who is standing down after five terms. ...
“Compelling research out of the UK reaffirms vaping’s life-saving role. Here’s hoping our Government’s pending legislation reflects vaping’s increasingly documented health benefits for smokers,” say Ben Pryor, co-owner of the largest Kiwi-owned ...
Government has announced a raft of changes to the Residential Tenancies Act. The Minister has said he does not want to be seen to unduly punishing landlords. These changes do more than punish landlords however. They will punish anyone living next ...
Democracy under Fire on Firearms Law Reform - COLFO SUNDAY 17 NOVEMBER 2019 The Government supposedly wants to “hear from all New Zealanders” about firearms law reform – unless you happen to be a licenced firearms owner. ...
From Monday 18 November New Zealand women are working for free until the end of the year because of the gender pay imbalance between men and women. ...
Award-winning investigative team Stuff Circuit is releasing its most hard-hitting documentary yet, exposing a secret the NZ Defence Force doesn’t want Kiwis to know. ...
The government has announced a suite of practical changes to the Residential Tenancies Act in its bid to make renting fairer and more secure. Here’s what you need to know. What’s happening?A number of changes to the Residential Tenancies Act (RTA) has just been announced by associate minister of housing Kris ...
US Trumpian Inspired Rhetoric From Anti-Trans Group Not a Good Fit with Nz Society Trans-rights support groups around the country have been dismayed by recent divisive and repellent comments by Stand Up For Women (SUFW), a group calling itself feminist ...
Sam Brooks reviews the third season of The Crown, a show that can’t decide whether it wants to humanise the monarchy or tear it all down.This review contains very mild spoilers for world history, 1964-1977.Three seasons in, there’s no doubt that The Crown is the, well, crown jewel in Netflix’s ...
An easy, flavour-packed noodle recipe from Bounty – Cooking With Vegetables, the new cookbook from national food education charity the Garden to Table Trust.The fresh flavours of these noodles are less complex than many Thai dishes, as the simple spice paste uses just a few ingredients. If you’d rather not ...
Part 2: In this excerpt from the evidence of Sir Maarten Wevers in the High Court case of Winston Peters over his superannuation leak, the former head of the Prime Minister's Department explains what ministers should be told by public servants ...
In this excerpt from the evidence of Sir Maarten Wevers in the High Court case of Winston Peters over his superannuation leak, the former head of the Prime Minister's Department summarises our governing arrangements. ...
With the 2020 cannabis referendum fast approaching, New Zealanders have a unique opportunity to let the government know what they want from drug reform. It will then be up to our policy makers to decide whether drug reform will focus on changing outcomes for those struggling under historically racist policy.By ...
It breaks my heart to think of young queer and trans people seeing this sign, and thinking there are no spaces where they will ever belong, writes Hadassah Grace. The first time I ventured into a gay bar, I vowed never to go back.It was a vulnerable time in my life. ...
It breaks my heart to think of young queer and trans people seeing this sign, and thinking there are no spaces where they will ever belong, writes Hadassah Grace. The first time I ventured into a gay bar, I vowed never to go back.It was a vulnerable time in my life. ...
Hayden Donnell looks for inspiration and innovation on how to house the city’s future.Auckland Council’s Unitary Plan has enabled a building boom. More than 14,600 building consents were issued in the city in the year to September. Despite that, houses remain extremely expensive and out-of-reach for many first home buyers. ...
Simon Shepherd: David Seymour's euthanasia bill passed this week, and next week he will be putting the finishing touches on his next bill. Is he just a very hard-working politician or is this the longest one-person election campaign known to mankind? ...
Simon Shepherd: It's Transgender Awareness Week, the same week a feminist group, Speak Up For Women, has brought Megan Murphy from Canada to speak in New Zealand. Murphy is a radical feminist who believes trans women aren't women, views that have ...
As a follow-up to our post about police station office hours for the public and in the cause of balance, we bring positive news – or rather, we are passing on the positive news which the police delivered in a press statement, It’s all about the productivity gains achieved – it ...
Books editor Catherine Woulfe follows Wellington author Lawrence Patchett into his extraordinary story of heat and humanity and history repeating. The Burning River begins like the best kind of yarn. “Someone had been there. Someone strange. In the centre of his camp, a new circle of sooted rocks. A campfire, with ...
SPECIAL REPORT: By Philip Cass in BrisbaneMelanesian Media Freedom Forum – Day two –The second day of the Melanesian Media Freedom Forum began with praise for the work of young Pacific journalists by Professor David Robie and ended with a warning that threats to journalism in the ...
In this special episode of The Real Pod, brought to you by Nando’s, we chat to the champions of My Restaurant Rules NZ 2019.In the afterglow of Rustic Kitchen’s historic win on My Restaurant Rules NZ, Duncan and Alex got on the blower with Tyson and Denise. Then we forgot ...
Hannah Kronast attends a women’s empowerment panel focused on the huge disparities in training and employment within science and technology. In the far back left-hand corner of a women’s equality and empowerment event, a male stuck up his hand. “What can men do to help?” he asked.It was at a panel ...
Our recent Spinoff Art survey provided a snapshot on gender equality in the local art scene, but it wasn’t the full story. Anna Knox continues the conversation by asking some gallery owners and directors for their responses to our findings.The Spinoff’s survey of gender bias in visual arts found that ...
Based on their study of trans wellbeing Aotearoa, the research team at Counting Ourselves find six data points that highlight the strength of our trans and non-binary community.Last month the first comprehensive national survey on transgender health and wellbeing in Aotearoa was published by the academics and researchers at Counting ...
The SpinoffBy Dr Jaimie Veale, Jack Byrne and Ahi Wi-Hongi
Ten thousand years ago, roasted hares and figs were flat-layed on Levantine flax leaves. Now, we drape prosciutto over strawberries on computer desks. Josie Adams mourns the death of the platter.Three days ago I stumbled on an accidental recreation of a 1950s platter: a giant ham, a cake that was ...
India’s decision not to join the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership promoted by China is politically significant. But its impact on trade and prosperity is more nuanced, as Bloomberg explains.It avoids some market opening on both sides (India to agriculture; others to services) that would have been economically beneficial. But ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra [embedded content]University of Canberra Deputy Vice-Chancellor Professor Geoff Crisp discusses the the week in politics the government’s response to the bush fires as well as the Emergency Leaders for Climate Action. They also talk about ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The proposed acquisition of infant formula producer Bellamy’s Australia Ltd by China Mengniu Dairy Company Limited has been given approval by Treasurer Josh Frydenberg. Strict, legally enforceable conditions, have been set by the treasurer, which ...
The Council of Trade Unions (CTU) is condemning the All Saints Day evening raid on 31 October. With the arrest of over 60 union organisers, human rights defenders and activists in the Philippines province of Negros. The 16th of November is an international ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Assistant professor, University of Canberra What’s happening? Suddenly, at the level of central banks, Australia is regarded as an investment risk. On Wednesday Martin Flodén, the deputy governor of Sweden’s central bank, announced that because Australia and Canada were “not ...
SPECIAL REPORT: By Philip Cass in Brisbane Opening session – Day OneThe problems of operating in the Pacific and the impact of online news and the emergence of ‘citizen journalists’ were common concerns for all delegates to this week’s Melanesian Media Freedom Forum.The forum, held at Griffith ...
Standoff between protesters and the police at Yeung Uk Road, Hong Kong. Image by Studio Incendo – 20190825 Tsuen Wan March. CC BY 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=81751531.The recent surge in social protests world-wide is quantitatively and qualitatively different than in previous ages. The advent of individualised mass communications technologies and the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Charles Livingstone, Associate Professor, School of Public Health and Preventive Medicine, Monash University The Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) is going to start asking internet service providers to block certain offshore gambling websites. The decision follows former New South Wales premier ...
The Zero Carbon Act (ZCA) is over a week old, but it’s still being heavily debated and analysed. After all, depending on who you listen to, it’s the most significant new law of the year, of this Government, or even of some people’s lifetime. And it deals with a giant ...
Green MP and refugee Golriz Ghahraman was there last night when the former Manus Island detainee and acclaimed writer arrived in New Zealand.Last night, quietly and without fanfare a small group made up of human rights activists, literary folk, and just two journalists, came together at Auckland Airport to welcome ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sandra D’urso, Researcher, The Australian Centre, University of Melbourne To perform an exit is not as simple as it sounds. In fact, exiting a situation can be almost impossible for some. Exit Strategies is a new production by indie performer and theatre ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Niro Kandasamy, Tutor, University of Melbourne Sri Lanka’s presidential election on Saturday comes at a critical time for the country. The government has been in turmoil since President Maithripala Sirisena sacked the prime minister last year and replaced him with former strongman ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexandra Hansen, Chief of Staff, The Conversation If you have kids, chances are you’ve worried about their presence on social media. Who are they talking to? What are they posting? Are they being bullied? Do they spend too much time on it? ...
New Zealand Police has won a prestigious World Class Policing Award for its ‘more street than station approach’ Mobility programme, which has saved millions of hours of officers’ time. ...
SEA-Unite SkyCity workers are expected to strike this weekend after 50 called in sick with symptoms linked to smoke inhalation from the convention centre fire. ...
In a powerful rebuff to critics who question whether the prime minister is willing to use her political capital, this morning she powerfully demonstrated her commitment to New Zealand culture.For two years, my professional life has been devoted to winning respect for the lowbrow, beaten-up, off-brand artefacts that truly define ...
Open mike 17/07/2014 
Open mike is your post.
Green MP Gareth Hughes has announced he will retire at the election. Its understandable - he's been there ten years, and wants to actually see his children grow up rather than miss it while drowning in the toxic parliamentary sewer. But his departure is also a huge loss for the ...57 mins ago
Words and images by Jacqui Gibson Gone are Auckland Museum’s days of doing science using a museum-centric academic approach, after Māori land rights holders Ngāti Kuri gave the museum an ultimatum.
MediaWorks announced in October 2019 that it intended to sell off its struggling television business and cancel or cut back on several popular local programmes, including New Zealand Today, Married at First Sight New Zealand and 7 Days. Its radio and outdoor advertising arms are currently performing well, but MediaWorks’ ...5 hours ago
Some readers may remember that I mentioned last year that I was applying for NZ citizenship. I filled out the paperwork and had my original citizenship interview in February. Everything went well until they discovered that, because I had spent five months in the US in 2017, I had not ...22 hours ago
by Deirdre O’Neill It is becoming quite acceptable for certain sections of the left to declare that people like me – women who are ‘gender critical’ – should not be allowed in leftist or anarchist spaces. Leaving aside the arrogance and implicit authoritarianism of this claim, its lack of critical ...23 hours ago
There is an article in The Conversation, written by Jeremy P. Shapiro (Adjunct Assistant Professor of Psychological Sciences, Case Western Reserve University), about what he sees as the psychologically-based underpinnings of three main matters that seem to vex people all around the planet. The article is titled “The Thinking ...2 days ago
. . Blogger Martyn Bradbury has won his case against unreasonable search and surveillance against the NZ Police; and subsequent Police attempts to produce evidence in secrecy, in a closed Court. His case highlights a disturbing growing trend in Aotearoa New Zealand for State power to be used against ...2 days ago
Different Strokes: If a multicultural immigration policy imposes no obligation on immigrant communities to acknowledge and ultimately embrace their host nation’s most cherished traditions and values, then how is that nation to prevent itself from being reduced to a collection of inward-looking and self-replicating ethnic and cultural enclaves?THE COALITION GOVERNMENT’S ...3 days ago
by The Council of Disobedient Women In her excellent oral submission to the Abortion reform select committee on 31st October on behalf of Otago University’s Department of Public Health, historian and public health researcher Hera Cook stated: “We would ask that the committee not use the term ‘pregnant persons’ and ...6 days ago
If FFNZ really put their faith in “Top Medical Journals” they would now be amending their billboards to recognise new research results. Image from FFNZ but updated to agree with the latest research. ... 1 week ago
And to think he gave all the potential goodwill away with that moronic, cult-like statement (repeated ad nauseam by many National hardliners) that Key is quite simply “the greatest PM we ever had”…
Installation complete: this was nothing ... 2 weeks ago
We're setting our young people up for success, investing in education around the country. ...2 hours ago
Jenny Marcroft MP, Spokesperson for Health New Zealand First backs the public to decide on the End of Life Choice Bill via a referendum at the 2020 General Election. The Bill, with New Zealand First’s referendum provision incorporated, passed its final reading in Parliament this evening. New Zealand First Spokesperson for ...4 days ago
The Government has delivered on its promise to the over one million New Zealanders who now rent to make it fairer and more secure, Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing) Kris Faafoi has announced today. Both renters and landlords will benefit from the suite of practical changes to the Residential ...21 hours ago
A corporate undertaker talks top tips for making sure you get paid, reining in rogue liquidators, and having a heart for those who’ve lost money.PwC’s John Fisk has handled high profile company failures from Pike River to Lombard Finance and the Ross Asset Management Ponzi scheme. He also chairs the ...24 mins ago
International crime rings are increasingly targeting New Zealanders’ bank accounts to launder proceeds from scams and fraud. Bronwyn Groot, Fraud Education Manager at the Commission for Financial Capability (CFFC) is highlighting the rising incidence ...1 hour ago
Landlords say they feel under siege with the government planning to make it tougher for them to boot out troublesome tenants; and skilled immigrants waiting for a residents visa say its unfair officials are fast tracking applications for those on salaries over $105,000. ...2 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tomas Trescak, Senior Lecturer in Intelligent Systems, Western Sydney University Just a few years ago, virtual reality (VR) was being showered with very real money. The industry raised an estimated US$900 million in venture capital in 2016, but by 2018 that figure ...3 hours ago
Retiring Green MP Gareth Hughes says the pace of change in the current Government is not fast enough for his liking but that is not the reason he is quitting politics. ...3 hours ago
Labour is charging wealthy business figures $1500-a-pop to lunch with Jacinda Ardern; and NZ First-linked forestry company pushed for govt funds. ...3 hours ago
An ambitious new partnership between Sky Sports and more than 50 sports promises more free sport for Kiwis. Suzanne McFadden looks at how it will change the way we see female athletes ...6 hours ago
Catriona MacLennan helped conduct a survey of the top NZ companies to establish the ethnicity of their directors. The results were not surprising, but also far from encouraging. ...6 hours ago
Episode 1 in a series on the trials of injured animals as they’re rescued, rehabilitated and released back into the wild follows the rescue of a yellow-eyed penguin. ...6 hours ago
Steve Braunias reviews the as-told-to book of All Blacks skipper Kieran Read, and fully expects it to suck. ...6 hours ago
The disastrous impact of banks selling risky financial derivatives to farmers is still being felt in rural communities more than a decade later. ...6 hours ago
New Zealand Defence Force's failed to clean up properly after itself in Afghanistan - with the result that seven children have been killed and another 10 civilians injured. ...6 hours ago
Green Party MP Gareth Hughes first entered Parliament in 2010. ...21 hours ago
Many fund managers are overconfident and the public buy the illusion. ...1 day ago
Part 2: In this excerpt from the evidence of Sir Maarten Wevers in the High Court case of Winston Peters over his superannuation leak, the former head of the Prime Minister's Department explains what ministers should be told by public servants ...1 day ago
In this excerpt from the evidence of Sir Maarten Wevers in the High Court case of Winston Peters over his superannuation leak, the former head of the Prime Minister's Department summarises our governing arrangements. ...1 day ago
New Zealand's coroners learnt lessons of cultural competency and communication from March 15. ...1 day ago
As a follow-up to our post about police station office hours for the public and in the cause of balance, we bring positive news – or rather, we are passing on the positive news which the police delivered in a press statement, It’s all about the productivity gains achieved – it ...2 days ago
"I rang the ambulance service then went to the shed": a new short story by a master of the form, Oamaru writer Owen Marshall. ...2 days ago
India’s decision not to join the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership promoted by China is politically significant. But its impact on trade and prosperity is more nuanced, as Bloomberg explains. It avoids some market opening on both sides (India to agriculture; others to services) that would have been economically beneficial. But ...2 days ago
‘
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/polls/10275359/National-holds-on-to-huge-lead
What’s wrong with Labour it's like they don't want to win.
80% of the population are opposed to deep sea oil drilling. With this one policy the united opposition could crush the government.
Government ministers will argue that it will cost jobs and it will hurt the economy.
The opposition can counter with the far greater threat of climate change.
As Gareth Hughes has said, "To really fight deep sea oil we need to fight it on climate change grounds".
Climate change is the government's worst performing portfollio, it is where they are weakest it iis where they are vulnerable, it is where they could take the biggest hits.
Yes, save the Maui Dolphin but save the Humans too.
No deep sea oil drilling, no new coal mines, let's really make climate change an election issue and get rid of this government of climate change Quislings and sellouts.
The Greens I presume are opposed to deep sea drilling. Can you explain why people are not uniting behind them?
Ah, Gosman. Good to see you. Have you started the reading that I advised you to do recently?
He won’t answer.
Just come here to stir.
He’ll back in the sewer soon.
LOL.
So true.
I will have a go.
I see the Greens as being in the same position vis-a-vis Labour as in another time were the Values Party. (except that nowadays the Greens have the benefit of MMP)
First of all Gosman, people are uniting around the Greens. But obviously not in the numbers that still rally around Labour, which is a more established (establishment) party. But despite having this established presence Labour are going down in the polls. Why, because they are not taking the leadership role their numbers and status gives them. Handing leadership to the Right and to a large extent on the Left that leadership role has passed largely to the Greens
The question for Left activists is; Should we speed Labour’s slow collapse or pressure them to retake the leading role?
(To put it more bluntly should we let the Right win this election and even the next, until ‘The Left [in whatever form] get their act together)
It is the same dilemma that faced Rod Donald when he was in Values and was campaigning against nuclear ship visits. Donald chose to leave Values and join Labour. Where he (and others) championed the nuclear free cause amongst the Labour ranks, starting with the LECs.
Now I am not for a second suggesting that Green or Left activists do that today, Thanks to the other good work of Rod Donald around MMP they don’t have to. But neither should they forget Labour.
Personally, in my opinion the planet can’t wait the 10 or twenty years until the Green Party are the government.
Time is running out.
Labour need to be challenged to front up.
Also, the nats have been running the lie, ad nauseum, that drilling and mining is the economic panacea. It has been reported ad nauseum.
@ jenny..
“..80% of the population are opposed to deep sea oil drilling. With this one policy the united opposition could crush the government…”
..+ 1..
Lets be honest here, the 80% are not single issue voters.
Sure they may not like the idea of deep sea oil drilling but they dont see it as really affecting them and their own financial position.Generally, most people will vote for stuff that makes their wallet fatter.
You need look no further than when Labour bought an election with the interest free student loans – hoovering up the middle ground.
As Clinton famously said “its the economy stupid”
in general i agree..
..but jenny is indirectly touching on what i want to happen..
..for the greens and internet/mana to work together to bring labour onside…
..to make labour put the capital l in ‘labour’…
As Clinton famously said “its the economy stupid”
As the Son of God famously said, “Man does not live by bread alone….”
Hmmm? Clinton, Jesus. Clinton, Jesus. Don’t make me choose.
I’m sure they do. The problem is that most New Zealanders are dumb and venal, and prepared to allow almost any official corruption as long as their mortgage doesn’t go up. It’s just the way things are now: all the Anglo countries appear to be fine with terrible governments for some reason.
It’s time to write this election off. Labour would be better suited trying to keep the 30% of voters it can probably count on in September. National could be exposed as running a pedophile ring and they would still get in.
Climate change is a minority electoral issue. Most people either don’t believe in it or have other priorities. You think Key is bad, at least he isn’t gagging environmental scientists like Harper.
It begins…
“Would it not be easier. In that case for the government. To dissolve the people. And elect another?”
That may well have to happen if the climate problem is to be solved in time. Democracy seems to be doing as poor a job as it did preventing WW2.
Time to get rid of Democacy then.
It’s an outrage that voters are so biased!
Oh fuck off.
It would be easier if we didn’t have a media that puts Sov1et-era Pravda to shame and treats an MMP election like a two-horse race. And regional-rag political columnists who weren’t fucking morons.
Hmmm.. is this deemed acceptable language around here now? Or is it only if you have viewpoint that is “agreeable” with that of the echo chamber?
Ref: Policy
“What we’re not prepared to accept are pointless personal attacks, or tone or language that has the effect of excluding others.”
riiiight, because building a straw man out of Brecht is much more legitimate than using a rude word [blushes, “why fiddle-dee-dee”] /sarc
I’ve been called out for much less around here.
Really? Like when?
Or do you just have difficulty distinguishing between a pointless personal attack and an attack with a point?
Fuck fuckity fuck fuck buggery bum fuck poos
lol
Search “srylands” to see such behaviour is accepted here by those from the right as well.
“The problem is that most New Zealanders are dumb and venal”
Yup, they’re so stupid that they’ll be fooled into voting for this reptilian child-eating kitten-killing Prime Minister for a third time.
If only they were rational they’d vote for a 5-headed coalition wrought by internal bickering. Why won’t people just vote for the unfunded bribes that are offered to them? I don’t get it either.
I mean, seriously, the parties of the left obviously write their policy and press releases in full knowledge that New Zealanders are stupid – the 10 second sound-bites cater to those with short attention spans and the lack of detail means that they don’t confuse anyone (except when they contradict each other within 24 hours, but who’s smart enough to notice?).
The left has been telling voters they’ve been stupid for 6 straight years, why don’t they get the message and drop National dammit!!!
People voting against their own interests is not new.
I would say that voting against your own personal interests is a great thing.
If you vote in the interests of the collective instead of purely for short-term personal gain then that is admirable. It’s how I’ve always approached voting – what’s good for the country will be better for me longer term.
It’s why I voted against interest-free student loans when I was a student and why I’m still against working for families even when I’ve started my own family recently. I simply don’t think it’s right that other people should have to subsidise my life choices in much the same way as I shouldn’t have to subsidise theirs.
It really turns me off when the left wheels out policy that is shamelessly targeting voters’ selfish short-term interests (with other voters’ money I might add) ahead of what’s best for the country longer term.
ROFL
if markets are supposed to work fine when everyone acts in their own self interest, why why don’t you think that voters should do the same?
“Why won’t people just vote for the unfunded bribes that are offered to them?”
nationals tax cuts ring a bell?
maybe get a more logical argument
So how is it that we’ll be in surplus this year?
GOOD question, can anyone answer that without smoke and mirrors please
Ah, blame the voter.
People are switched on, hence the low poll. Can see Mr C (and Labour) for what he is (isn’t).
“Ah, blame the voter.”
Democracy can be so gosh-dang inconvenient!
@TomJackson
” You think Key is bad, at least he isn’t gagging environmental scientists like Harper.”
Wait till after the election – if nats win…………..
“80% of the population are opposed to deep sea oil drilling. With this one policy the united opposition could crush the government.”
80% may well be opposed but its an opposition similar to a facebook like in that yes they’re opposed but well they get of their chuffs to do anything? Hell no.
So yes 80% may be opposed but most still know we need to be doing it
Speak for yourself, not other people.
Not when the biggest Left Party in the country says its OK!
It’s all about leadership, when Labour abandons their leadership role they go down in the polls.
When Labour took the leading role in the anti nuclear movement they swept the polls.
Climate change is the anti nuclear movement of our age.
Only because they were also doing the bidding of the right economically.
And the media was right behind them.
That is a total misrepresentation of the facts. People did not know that Douglas and his cadre were about to implement neo-liberal policies when the voted in 1984. They did know about the anti-nuclear policies.
Once they found out about Labour ‘doing the bidding of the right economically’, the Labour Party split in two.
Just as the puppet masters of Douglas and Prebble planned.
But alas, IMO a weak man who didn’t stand up to Douglas soon enough!
It also didn’t hurt that Lange was a helluva of talker with a huge amount of charisma
I choose to disagree.
Supporting a nuclear free pacific was our own self interest at its finest.
And fair enough too. We had seen the evidence of what a couple of nuclear bombs could do, in old WW2 footage.
We havent really seen what climate change will do to us and to our lifestyles, so our self interest warning beacon isnt actually going off. And we are told that the cost of putting climate change right, is a huge raise in the cost on our power bill and a huge raise in the cost of filling our cars.
And our self interest in more interested in keeping warm in winter, and feeding the kids
Oh please. It was clever politics, but the likelihood of anyone nuking us was and remains fractionally above zero.
How much does NZ receive in royalties in say, the last three years? How many jobs are there in the drilling game?
SFA
Cementing it’s lead by being down on the latest poll?
Yeah, massive bias in the MSM.
Oh come on. Just accept that the voters are clowns and move on.
Napoleon lost.
So?
Maybe Napoleon had a lot more self awareness than he has been credited with.
That ill fated march into Russia must have been a bit of a kick in the teeth.
And I imagine that a long stretch on St Helena would have led to quite a bit of introspection.
Only at the end 😉
It’s the worst performing portfolio because it’s not a real portfolio Jenny. It’s time you lot woke up. If you want this country to remain in the first world we need to stop being held back by a bunch of rope headed tie dyed combie drivers stuck in the 1960’s.
Actually Doug it is the tired old climate change deniers like yourself that are more akin to backward looking luddites dreaming of some ridiculous past “age of illusion”. It’s time you woke up. The age of fossil fuels is passing, as it must.
It is way past time for all of us to enter the 21st Century and embrace the new “clean tech.
“Grease” is not “the word”.
+1 Jenny
It’s the deniers who are stuck in the past. We want a future.
The Roy Morgan poll isn’t good news either.
http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/5684-roy-morgan-new-zealand-voting-intention-july-16-2014-201407160655
Why no bounce in the polls from the Labour party conference do you think? Could it be that Cunliffe’s apology for being a man (perceived or not) has not gone down well?
You omitted to report that, on that poll, Greens are on the rise. See also your comment at 1.1
I wouldn’t bother discussing polls with right wing tr**ls, karol.
Not really discussing, Paul. Just pointing out a glaring contradiction between comments.
Yes it’s great to see the Greens doing so well.
Yes. I’m not that interested in polls, but I was intrigued by Gos’s selective comments re the Greens.
its his MO? He pretends to be this intellectual revealling the wrong thinking of everyone who doesnt share his ideology… Because his ideology, rather than a desire for truth or factual analysis, he contradicts himself, frequently, and avoids questions which challenge him. This is why often when he seems to be answering questions he actually doesnt answer the question at all.
Well the Greens become the main party of the left after this next election? Its getting close.
Shouldn’t think so, me old luv. But quite possible their vote will equal about half of Labour’s, possibly slightly more than half if they’re lucky.
You think? Even Roy Morgans saying Labours on 23.5 while the Greens are on 15% and it’ll probably only get worse for Labour
Scroll down to 10, big fella. I’ve replied to you down there.
That’s because he comes here to stir, not discuss the issues.
Gos does indeed come to stir: and every time he picks on Labour or somebody else individually. The things that get forgotten in these one on one skirmishes are:
* Its not Labour that counts, its the combined Left.
* National have so few other friends on the Right, if the polls say they have fifty plus then they are actually likely to get 45% or less. Wheres the extra 6% coming from?
So Gos, eat on it, the Right are in big trouble, and you know it.
+1 Ennui. RW’er’s seem to still have trouble with MMP
No, we have problems with the Nats hoovering up all the support, and leaving no crumbs for the support parties.
It also makes them smug, uncaring (why change anything?) and unwilling to investigate alternative policy.
Even if they could achieve it, a 50.1% for the Nats would be bad for the country. As would 50.1% for Labour in the past.
It seems that some Labour vote is heading green. Its hardly surprising when you compare the two, the Greens are far better operators at the moment their policy release and media management are far better. They also dont have mp’s running around doing a piss poor job of communicating policy.
Yeah in my opinion that comment tended to annoy a lot of males, it just appeared flakey, I guess people would compare DC to Key and come to the conclusion that Cunliffe is not as smart as Key.
Being honest I think people look at Labour and are put off by the same old faces from the last Labour Government, it even bothers me. At least Key-National have refreshed their line up of MP’s. Should Labour fail to win office they would have to retire 50% of their current MP’s to stand any chance of wining the next election or the Greens will be the main opposition party.
But then Cunliffe’s comment went down well with quite a few men, and many women.
tony ryall says he is embarrassed to have never been to te kuiti hospital til yesterday. Not embarrassed however at the decision regarding maternity care in te awamutu and morrinsville.
Shame is a funny old thing.
But alas, IMO a weak man who didn’t stand up to Douglas soon enough!
It sounded crap as a soundbyte…when played in context it made the remarks of Key and his cronies sound exactly what they are: misogynistic, patriarchal and and uncaring. Cunliffe is to be applauded, I expect that he will only gain votes.
Well yes his comments may have gone down well with some people. That does not mean it was a politically clever move when the sole goal in 2014 is to win office and remove Key and his cronies.
This is politics. And in election year it is not wise to alienate potential voters.
As an ACT or National Party member, I doubt you care …
But let’s test that supposition….
Do you think economic inequality is a problem in New Zealand?
How did you think we got into this position?
What should we do to address these problems?
Or do you think discussing polls is the most important thing we should be doing 60 days out from an election?
David Cunliffe’s deliberate omission of the words “climate change” in his speech to the congress, (not mentioning it even once) and his refusal to give leadership on this issue now that he is leader, reeked of cowardice and backtracking on his earlier position given when he wasn’t leader.
David Cunliffe on climate change 2012
David Cunliffe on climate change 2014 elections (so far)
That’s terribly unfair of you Jenny! In fact such an easily disproven contention by you shows that you’re commentary is akin to some of the right wing trolling that frequents these pages.
Here’s a recent (June 2014) press release by Labour Leader David Cunliffe:
But don’t let this article or any other get in the way of you making completely unfounded claims about where Labour and the Green’s stand on climate change issues Jenny. God knows you haven’t in the past.
I actually remember this. How could not any political leader with any morals at all not be outraged by this?
To have not said something would this would have been an outrage in its own right.
Gosman-it was a Congress.
While admitting this is a bad poll (the Moa crap didn’t help) oddly Lab/Green/IMP/NZF at 46% still remain in touch with the motly crew Nats/Act/Maori/Cons.
Cunliffe has done plenty to keep Winston on-side and he (Winnie) is really pissed off that the Nats gave some of their question time in parliament to Horan to hassle him.
The campaign only has to shift 3% for the balance to change, and nobody believes Nats will poll 51%.
Third-rate comedian’s bewildered rant about Gaza
Has The Panel ever been more dire than this?
Radio NZ National, Wednesday 16 July 2014
Jim Mora, Michelle Acourt, Jeremy Elwood
One of the more inane habits of chat-show host Jim Mora is his frequent mentioning of the neocon New York Times columnist David Brooks. Apparently he thinks this name-checking will impress discerning listeners; this suggests he has not actually read more than a paragraph or two of Brooks’s barking mad opinion pieces.
Mora is notorious for having a high tolerance for all kinds of foolishness, as anyone will know who has heard him swallow his scruples and guffaw along with the likes of such moral imbeciles as Barry Corbett, Stephen Franks, his acolyte Jordan Williams, the contemptuously anti-democracy National Party fixer Michelle Boag, Chris “Haw Haw” Trotter, Rosemary McLeod, and Nevil “Breivik” Gibson. The list of substandard Panel guests goes on and on and on; one of these days I’ll post up the whole sorry lot.
This afternoon, Mora affected a patient, encouraging tone while professional “comedian” Jeremy Elwood used his Soapbox segment to unload a wandery, utterly bewildered rant about the latest Israeli blitzkrieg on Gaza. According to Elwood—and he took about three agonizing minutes of umming and ahhhing to spit it out—it’s not the crazed Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu that’s the problem, it’s the “extremists on both sides.” If it was a more gifted performer speaking these bizarre words, listeners might have been forgiven for thinking they were being treated to some kind of guerilla theatre prank, an exercise in the comedy of embarrassment, with Elwood assuming the character of an incoherent know-nothing. A sadder, more pathetic version of David Brent, perhaps, or one of Peter Cook’s hopeless old incompetent judges.
Tragically, however, Jeremy Elwood wasn’t doing that. He was in his deadly serious mode, which he has unleashed on listeners to this program before. It’s a mode he employs on the TV3 show 7 Days; next time you tune in, take a look at Elwood’s face when Dai Henwood or Paul Ego or Jeremy Corbett veer off into some dodgy territory; Elwood almost always glowers with a parsonical disapproval. If his other half Michele Acourt happens to be on as well, she backs him up with her own arsenal of reproachful glares and unhappy frowns.
This afternoon, Elwood unwisely chose to speak on something about which he knows little or nothing—not an unusual occurrence on this light chat show—which meant his three minutes of perplexed pontification was about as enlightening as a lecture on international law by Ban Ki Moon, as informed as a spray about justice by Garth “The Knife” McVicar and as confused as a talk about children’s rights by Christine Spankin’ Rankin.
After Elwood’s dire ramble finally ended, the host finished with an appropriately whacky segue….
JIM MORA: I read a column by Jack Tame today….
Now perhaps—just perhaps—this was clever-clogs Mora’s way of honoring the spirit of incoherent stupidity struck by Elwood, but I fear he was also, just like the hapless “comedian”, being serious.
Tame, by the way, has come into our crosshairs on more than one occasion in recent years. If you can bear it, I recommend you reacquaint yourself with some of his other columns….
spot on there morrissy…!..(some of yr best-work there…)
..i took the dogs to the park halfway thru that dire-exercise…
..so missed what elwood had ‘been thinking’..
..his initials drivelings driving me out the door..
..and a timely tame-warning there…(he’s a new benchmark in lite-weight..putting the ‘fat’ in ‘fatuous’..really..)
..and do publish the full list of that (mainly) sorry cast of characters that mora wheels out..
..(reactionary-cliches on a stick..)
..fun cd b had with that…
You were better off walking out the door than listening to that rubbish, Phillip. I shall put up the list soon. Keep watching this channel…
Gave up listening to Mora about a year ago.
Still enjoy your reports on his dire programme, pretending it is representative of NZ opinion…
netanyahu IS one of the extremistsfrom either side
Fetid, celebrity-gloating spittle about sums it up. These are the ‘gifted’, the ‘insightful’ ???
Elwood is ok. Listen to the bit where he attacked the Taxpayers Union.
A somewhat more informed opinion on Gaza than Elwood by Seumas Milne in The Guardian.
“Gaza: this shameful injustice will only end if the cost of it rises
The idea that Israel is defending itself from unprovoked attacks is absurd. Occupied people have the right to resist
‘For the third time in five years, the world’s fourth largest military power has launched a full-scale armed onslaught on one of its most deprived and overcrowded territories. Since Israel’s bombardment of the Gaza Strip began, just over a week ago, more than 200 Palestinians have been killed. Nearly 80% of the dead are civilians, over 20% of them children.
Around 1,400 have been wounded and 1,255 Palestinian homes destroyed. So far, Palestinian fire has killed one Israeli on the other side of the barrier that makes blockaded Gaza the world’s largest open-air prison.
But instead of demanding a halt to Israel’s campaign of collective punishment against what is still illegally occupied territory, the western powers have blamed the victims for fighting back. If it weren’t for Hamas’s rockets fired out of Gaza’s giant holding pen, they insist, all of this bloodletting would end.”
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/16/gaza-shameful-injustice-israel-attacks-occupied-people
Paul-excellent. The problem is we don’t have a serious political programme on TV discussing Gaza like this. Instead we have reality TV and Paul sodding Henry.
@ Moz
It’s the extremists on both sides – very much the standard default-position for anyone who’s genuinely concerned and well-meaning about the Israeli violence they see on their TV screen, but really don’t have too much of a clue about the historical or contemporary context (and are almost certainly worried that if they fully condemn Israel – as anyone would naturally be inclined to do after seeing the carnage – then they might just be accused of anti-Semitism. Better just to say “Faults on both sides / why can’t they all just live in peace” and various other meaningless platitudes – as the world’s longest and most brutal Occupation in modern history continues to wreak its havoc).
To be fair it was Hamas who broke th emost recent Egypt-brokered ceasefire.
That’s not to say Israel isn’t mostly to blame, but Hamas isn’t helping. Failure to acknowledge that Hamas is a terrorist organisation (as distinct from the Palestinian civilians stuck in the middle) is to be unrealistic.
While it is obvious that Israel’s response is grossly disproportionate, you can’t pretend that they are not in their rights to retaliate if attacked. Catch 22.
It’s very well and good to play armchair diplomats from the safety and security of the other side of the world, and while I mostly side with the Palestinians, I’m no fan of Hamas (just as I am no fan of Hezbollah or similar groups). To understand is not to approve.
Wonder if Kathryn Ryan is going to try to speak to Coleman for the third day running.
And is he still running scared?
Key and Coleman are probably hoping that, if they keep their heads down, most voters won’t notice. Then in a week or so they will continue fronting for stories of mass distraction. Most MSM journos and editors will follow.
given the poll results you can see why they think that way. For all the smugness by some about being on the winning team this election,they all can only say of the PMs lies, his parade of ministers unable to comply with the cabinet manual, is nothing, or winning is what matters.
Same people who said signing a painting for charity required a PMs resignation.
When Key or cosa nostra move their lips we should all shout –
Is that a weapon of mass distraction?
Good pun.
Can anyone tell me what may potentially happen if you “swim” in a river that is only deemed clean enough to “wade” in? Im thinking the difference in toxicity would be quite large between “swimmable” and “wadable”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/10275269/Keeping-your-head-above-water
it’s called setting the bar so low it is under water…
Google can help.
The dirty/polluted water can cause some illnesses or infections, but may not be life threatening, except for those with immune deficiencies – the latter most common amongst the young and elderly.
Can result in viruses – gastroenteritis, hepatitis, respiratory illness, and ear, nose, and throat problems
NZ govt site says:
So, instead of asking…. just google it for yourself.
that’s the greens really going out on a green-limb there…eh..?
..setting the aspirational-bar high there..eh..?
..(‘just tell the old folks and the young..!..to step well back..!..
..’cos this river has the green stamp of approval..!
..so it’ll hurt them..!’..)
..seriously..?..yr defending this..?
..some of the green policies are ok..
..but this one..as setting an aspirational-goal..for our waterways..for our ‘green’-future..
..is beyond fucken pathetic..
(note to self:..brace yrslf for ‘green-hate-campaign’-accusations..)
hopefully karol braced herself for your pretending to not like a particular green party policy rant when u are still jaundiced by them not doing what you want over cannabis. Oh thats right, she wouldnt need to cos she is mature
gee tracy..let’s unpack that one..
u r claiming i am ‘pretending’ to not like this policy..
..hand on heart..i am not ‘pretending’..
..i really really don’t like it..believe me..!..eh..?.
..and u r claiming i am ‘pretending’ b’cos i wd rather they actually said something about their pot-policies..?
..have i got that right..?
..well..i wd rather they were more vocal on pot..
..but to totally blow yr theory of an anti-green campaign i am running..’hate-campaign’..?..isn’t it..?
..i can but show what my coverage of the green party has been lately..eh..?
http://whoar.co.nz/?s=green
first five stories cd only b read as pro-green..showing them in a good lite..
..u have 2 get down to story six to reach yr first jarring-note..
..there i snipe at the green mayor of wellington..for her breaking of her campaign-promises to care for the homeless of wellington..
.. i then scrolled for awhile..and found no anti-green ‘hate-campaign’ stories..
..so you really are just full of it..eh..?
whooooooosh
wow..!..biting comeback there..!..eh tracey..?
..that’s shut me up..
..are you a member of the nz alonquin(sic) round-table..?..r.u..?
Still publishing utter shit about the Wellington City Mayor Phillip…
show me the evidence that i am misrepresenting the truth..
..and i will issue a humble-apology..
..’till then..as usual..u r just all mouth..eh..?
The typical fuckheads reply Phillip, exactly what i expected from you,
Make up a series of LIES about the Wellington city Mayor and when called upon those LIES demand others provide proof that you are not lying…
have a fucken kit-kat..!..eh..?
in april wade-brown ‘endorsed’ a ‘community-led initiative’..
..so i guess that’s a start..
..how long has she been mayor..?
..and where have her (campaign-promised) ‘initiatives’ been in/during that time..?
..no ‘evidence’ of them..eh..?
..so i stand by what i said..
..no apologies needed..
Phillip likes to ‘pretend’ it supports ‘the left’, but, the amount of time ‘it’ spends undermining the parties of the left would strongly suggest that Phillip is just another ‘wing-nut’ using subterfuge in ‘its’ attacks,
The allegations, without a shred of proof, leveled at the Wellington City Mayor again this morning are akin to me accusing Phillip of being a paedophille where if i had i would rightly be called upon to provide proof of such an accusation…
u piece of shit..
..i will never engage with u again..
..on any level..
Absolutely laughable Phillip, now you know exactly how the Wellington City Mayor feels when you continually publish a trail of LIES about her,
i am tho sure you will in about the time the next joint blows away a handful more of your poorly treated neurons forget that, Ha ha ha, you are never ever going to engage with me again,
You cannot in fact resist…
Don’t you care about the fish that live in the rivers Phillip?
u got me there karen..i want the rivers dirtier..
..and a special mis-comprehension award 4 u..eh..?
..i am actually amazed/dismayed at how on this issue..incrementalism seems to have a death-grip on the green party..
..and after all these years of those posters showing them standing beside sparkling/babbling-brooks etc…
..shame there were no signs in those images saying:..’safe for wading only..beware the elderly and the young!’
..eh..?
Phillip likes to wallow in industrially polluted waters, its piped directly into His home from the Waikato River…
Saarbo, the whole issue is fraught with nonsense, “swimmable” versus “wadable”, what crap. I have fished for years “wading” in streams…this quite often results in “swims”. Either way up until 10 years or there abouts ago I never worried about pollution.
Over the last few seasons wading in the Ruamahanga I often notice a “stain” and an “odour”….a couple of years back I got a rash on my leg from wading (I suspect). Last season a minor cut on my leg turned septic after a prolonged “wade”.
There are in my mind only binary states for a river, clean or polluted. No half stages. Advice on keeping your head above water is just bollocks.
Thanks Ennui, Im thinking you could technically probably “wade” in some of the most polluted rivers in the world…more National Party sophistry Im thinking.
http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/5684-roy-morgan-new-zealand-voting-intention-july-16-2014-201407160655
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/polls/10275359/National-holds-on-to-huge-lead
Here let me help you lefties out…
The polls don’t matter
The only poll that counts is on election day
Theres plenty of time until the election to turn things around
People of the left don’t have land lines
Once people get to know the real Cunliffe the polls will improve (for Labour)
Once people get to know the real Key the polls will improve (for Labour)
Door knocking indicates a massive ground swell of support for Labour
Tell you what though this keeps up and the Greens may well become the main party of oppostion, its getting close
Yup the tr**ls are here talking polls.
Funny that.
Hey remember Paul Roy Morgans polls are the only polls that exist apparantly
But on another matterLabour 23.5% Greens at 15%, correct me if i’m wrong but I don’t think its ever been that close between them before so not quite big brother and little brother anymore which must have an effect on negotiations
Interesting times ahead
As an ACT or National Party member, I doubt you care …
OK let’s test that supposition….
Do you think economic inequality is a problem in New Zealand?
How did you think we got into this position?
What should we do to address these problems?
Or do you think discussing polls is the most important thing we should be doing 60 days out from an election?
Being that I’m not an Act party member I’m not sure what you mean
Do you think economic inequality is a problem in New Zealand?
How did you think we got into this position?
What should we do to address these problems?
Or do you think discussing polls is the most important thing we should be doing 60 days out from an election?
Do you think economic inequality is a problem in New Zealand?
How did you think we got into this position?
What should we do to address these problems?
Or do you think discussing polls is the most important thing we should be doing 60 days out from an election?
Your answers say so much….
Have you read this book?
Inequality: A New Zealand Crisis
http://www.bwb.co.nz/books/inequality
Heard these people speak?
https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/about/news-events-and-notices/events/events-2014/05/sir-douglas-robb-lectures.html
Or read their book?
Heard this guy talk?
Seen this film
http://inequalityforall.com/
What are your sources for your amazing statement about inequality?
” I think its something that the left try to blow out of all proportion in an attempt to discredit the government and thus get into power.”
Nothing I’ve seen equals what the left are trying to say and more people agree with me then you, simple as that
na-na-na-na-na
FIFY
Please provide your sources which persuaded it’s just a left wing beat up.
The schoolyard argument ‘more people agree with me then you’ does not count, by the way as a persuasive argument.
I can say more people agree with me because the right wing block is over 50% whereas the left wing block is struggling along in the mid 30s
Yes…but you haven’t answered my question, pr.
Before coming to your opinions on inequality, had you read or watched any of the resources I listed?
And what sources have you read/viewed to help you come to your opinion?
Remember, pr, this is a debate about the actual issues, not the polls.
No I haven’t read or watched as they’re discredited and of no interest to me, I prefer to see things with my own eyes rather then let a journalist tell me what to think
You have written them off without reading them or watching them? I linked you to UK academics, US policy makers and NZ academics – all experts on the field they are writing about and backed by significant amounts of research.
You writing them off does not seem to be very open-minded.
Please could you then provide me with the sources that discredited them. I would love to reach your position of enlightenment on the subject.
Reference to Slater’s blog does not count as a source, btw.
You have written them off without reading them or watching them?
I linked you to UK academics, US policy makers and NZ academics – all experts on the field they are writing about and backed by significant amounts of research.
You writing them off does not seem to be very open-minded.
Please could you then provide me with the sources that discredited them. I would love to reach your position of enlightenment on the subject.
Reference to Slater’s blog does not count as a source, btw.
so your just being a time waster then
i thought your boss didnt like you on the internet
framu
that was yesterdays lie. The only consistent thing about our right wing trolls and their leader is they cant keep their lies straight.
Bosses away so the mice play 🙂
Nope. Very few people agree with ACT. Some isolated religious cults might like your views on incest, and a few disturbed young men with tragic sex lives might like the selfishness explicit in your economic policies, but that’s about it.
Paul,
I do recall Roger Douglas having this new economic plan which was to catapult all into a meritocracy, rather than leaving success down to who you were clever enough to have as your father.
I do recall Helen Clark pushing the line that good access to a decent education , was the way to catapult folk into a great future.
It would appear that the Douglas plan didnt achieve what it promised and it would appear that the Clark plan has resulted many more entering tertiary style education, but, not necessarily catapulting into the great future.
I gues both plans seemed legit to those who were promoting them.
Is the real problem really inequality, or just the sense of hopessness that people have? That sense that there is no pathway to a better future for your kids?
@pukkish rogue.
go and jump in the river!
I could but it still won’t stop National forming the next government
and p.r..u r a fool for making predictions when so much still has to happen…
..much much water to flow under many many bridges yet..
..amongst upcoming delights…just wait ’till the snowden-drop..when the voters will be able to read how much contempt the americans have for any idea of our sovereignty..
..and how they view key/nz much the same way a pimp regards their prostitutes..
..and it’s pretty much condom-free..eh..?
..they clearly prefer to ride us bareback..
LOOK OUT PHILLIP! Your tinfoil hat has slipped again
is that what passes for humour/giant-killer-comeback around yr neck of the woods..?
..just confirming that thesis that all rightwingers have a s.o.h. byepass at birth..?
..eh..?
..q.e.d…
Thrills a minute for Puckish who should remember that at the same time befor the 2011 election the ‘polls’ were saying exactly the same thing,
How did that ‘Governing alone’ work out three years ago…
I don’t expect National to govern alone but Roy Morgan has National 12.5% ahead of Labour/Greens and the Ipsos poll has National 17.5% ahead of Labour/Greens so on the whole its looking better for Nationa/Act/Maori then it is for Labour/Greens.IMP/Winston
“How did that ‘Governing alone’ work out three years ago…”
Scratch the Maori/Ninja Party, only you and Flavell are deluded enough to believe that they are headed anywhere but electoral oblivion,
If Labour/Green run a smart campaign in Epsom, scratch ACT, the final act befor the curtain comes down on that blight upon the political landscape should occur in a few weeks,
Scratch NZFirst, The tactical voters wont be there for Winston in 2014,
National with the ‘Hairdo’ just doesn’t quite make up the numbers, a really really big opposition tho…
to get ACT out in epsom will require a decent number of Nat voters to vote for goldsmith
ACT has had 19 MPs in its brief history. Three have been convicted of fraud, deception, or a form of both. That is over 15%.
Act will be back as will Peter Dunne, Flavel should hold his seat so theres 3 possibly 4 seats for National
and this is as it should be because a party with over 40% support should be in some sort of power so yay democracy! 🙂
… ” a party with over 40% support should be in some sort of power…”
A party that does not have the support of 60% of the voters, is not entitled to anything, other than the opportunity to work with like-minded parties to form a coalition.
Twenty years on and you are still confused about MMP?
Politics for pr is just numbers.
No vision for the future, no policies….
Just data.
What a sad state of affairs….
Fair enough, see you in three years when the left might get into power
Is power all there is to you?
What do you actually believe in?
We now know you don’t believe inequality is an problem in New Zealand.
What are the policies you do believe in…
By the way still waiting for your sources on inequality….
I believe that National is NZs best chance for everybody to improve themselves, I believe that Labour arn’t too bad but the Greens live in cloud cuckoo land and I believe that power is a means to an end
Puckish is simply confused about ‘everything’, polls being the latest bright and shiny thing that ‘its’ magpies pea brain has attracted ‘it’ to,
If you take National’s polling leading into the 2011 election and compare it with the actual result as the comment below does, a different picture begins to emerge,
If the same loss of traction occurs between the polls and actual vote in 2014 that occurred in 2011 then National is likely to gain at best 44% of the party vote in September,
That’s one hell of a big opposition…
hes not confused – hes just being a monumental dick on purpose
A lot of the nactoid loss of traction was down to the Rena and the cup of tea raids.
That having been said, nothing loses tory votes like their engaging personalities shining through.
See my post above Pukish.
Watch: New Yorkers pierce through pro-war gathering with chants of ‘stop bombing Gaza now’
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/yorkers-gathering-bombing.html
+100 …Great New Yorkers are coming out for the Palestinians….it is atrocious what is happening to the Palestinians in their own land and the persecution of their democratically elected government
..it is hard to believe the crimes against humanity being perpetrated by a people who should of all people know better
I see Israel have agreed to the ceasefire and as yet Hamas have not, what do you think the chances are of Hamas not firing more rockets into Israel while the ceasefire is on, regardless of whether the ceasfire is in place on both sides or not
” while the ceasefire is on, regardless of whether the ceasfire is in place on both sides or not”
WTF?
WTF?
Maybe i should have said whether both side agree to it of not, but im sure you got that eh ?
Actually now its being reported Hamas has also agreed, will be interesting to watch if they actually manage it for a whole 5 hrs
and yet you have no comment on the myriad of UN resolutions ignored by Israel
Actually all of that and more has beeen commented on previously on this site so no real point in rehashing it all, im just curious to see if both sides adhere to the ceasefire and if it might be the start of another permanant one, i can see Israel sticking to it yet somehow doubt Hamas will
Israel probably considers mission accomplished with far more palestinians dead and far more building destruction in palestine than Israel
Israel is an occupying power with nukes and the US war machine behind it while the Palestinians are penned up in a tiny area with very little resources, not even drinkable water now thanks to the dirty filthy Israeli military.
Cease fires are virtually meaningless when the Israelis can just flick the switch when it suits them and go back to their old ways “Carry on Butchering”. This will be over if economic pressure is put on Israel by consumers and suppliers and the US pressured hard enough to reduce and then withdraw aid. It worked for the other Apartheid state.
TG +100…it is a land grab by the Israelis and the Palestinians know it…the Israelis will be tried by history just as others have been….and there will be questions about how ‘crimes against humanity’ were allowed to happen..
From Robert Fisk
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/why-doesnt-the-media-ever-mention-the-lack-of-progress-in-the-middle-east-9603172.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-true-gaza-backstory-that-the-israelis-arent-telling-this-week-9596120.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/dumping-blame-for-the-holocaust-on-the-grand-mufti-is-an-insult-to-its-six-million-victims-9587755.html
Despite slimy Espiner’s nauseating interviewing techniques.
yes Russel Norman very, very good on Morning Report despite Espiner…the Greens are the party to vote for imo
Won’t be long before the Greens are the commanding left party.
Labour needs to reform. They are useless. Drop the deadwood and start again.
thanks for your concern
@Paul
I thought Guy Le Spinner was showing improvement the other day.Didn’t hear Russel Norman.
Turned off after the Mexican news of 500 girls and boys being in an orphanage that sold sex etc. Bad and only when it gets to 500 can we stir ourselves to care. I couldn’t stand it.
Serious question here, can the Stuff Ipsos poll be believed at all? http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10275359/National-holds-on-to-huge-lead
When you break the voting down to regions it is saying Canterbury has National at 59.1% support, yet everything I personally see in the media around Canterbury is anti-National, anti-Gerry Brownlee, and shit is just not getting sorted, STILL!
Either the MSM is running a anti-Government line in Canterbury, or Stuff have fallen onto a pocket of National voters in their calling and this poll is, to be direct, fucked.
I know Canterbury isn’t just Christchurch, but surely if the re-build is going as badly down there as is being reported, a backlash against the Government would be widespread. Or have the MSM (especially John Campbell) just found a ratings winner and run with it?
yes I think the polls are really sus…i think many are refusing to answer them…i am one such person
look at the electorates that make up canterbury. Labour normally gets no traction in rural seats.
A little over 15% of voters show as undecided in that poll on stuff.
True, but you would still expect a bigger dent in National’s support from Christchurch itself. Surely they made up a significant % of the Canterbury votes based on population. Unless this poll is fundamentally flawed.
Campbell Live keeps running stories which suggest a significant number of the population are disenchanted with EQC, Insurance companies and the government.
Yes we are disenchanted with the injustices with EQC and the insurance companies particularly.
But we also see Liane Dalziel as mayor struggling to change much at all. We have a general fear that a Labour lead Government will be no more effective than Lianne has been.
The rural towns of Canterbury seem to be doing very nicely and will be strongly blue once again.
That’s not the point The Lone Haranguer. People just aren’t seeing on the ground the support for National that these polls are suggesting. It’s something that I’ve also noticed, being that it’s hard to find anybody in my local electorate who actually supports the current government.
It’s similar in the New Zealand Blogosphere, whereby left wing bloggers outnumber right wing bloggers by a whopping 260% or 109 to 30. How do you explain such inconsistencies?
Jackal, that is what I would expect, low support on the ground for National in Christchurch, which makes me think the Stuff Ipsos poll may not be as rosy for National as it looks.
With regards to: “It’s similar in the New Zealand Blogosphere, whereby left wing bloggers outnumber right wing bloggers by a whopping 260% or 109 to 30. How do you explain such inconsistencies?”
The two most viewed NZ blogs are Whaleoil and Kiwiblog, so it simply suggests that there are more people on the ‘Left’ trying to share their views, it doesn’t suggest there is more support for the ‘Left’.
You cannot tell whether a blog is being viewed by more people who support left or right wing politics Bob. Many of the hits on sites like Cameron Slater’s will come from left wing viewers don’t you know.
You can however say that because there are more left wing bloggers than there are right wing bloggers there’s more support for left wing politics in the blogosphere. The concept that left wing people are more motivated to blog doesn’t explain the huge 260% difference.
This is just one more example of why the polls and perhaps even the election poll itself might not be accurate.
Im in Brownlees electorate. I find the locals think the Nats are doing an okay job in very trying circumstances. And that it would be disloyal to change teams now.
I would expect the Labour/Greens/IMP grouping to win more party votes in Chch than the Nats on 20 September.
Regarding blogger numbers, I guess it reflects politics really – a few RW blogs, and a heap of LW ones which suggest one of three things:
The LW bloggers are fragmented group who cant actually work together successfully
The LW bloggers like the sound of their own voices at lot (Whoar)
The RW dont need bloggers because apparently, they already have the MSM (I learned that here)
Actually I’ve counted blogs like The Standard and The Daily Blog as one blog author, so it’s a very rough estimate. Don’t have time to do an exact comparison.
The fact that TDB has over forty different people blogging while right wing blog sites like Kiwibog and FailOil apparently only have one (bar catcus Kate) shows them to be “fragmented”. There are clearly more co-operative blogs on the left.
Your contention that the MSM has more right wingers is perhaps feasible, but you would need to compare the exact amount of left versus right wing journalists?
how many years did parker and national have to embed the mess? She has had less than a year to undo it, so stick with national?
I think a lot of those on the right voted for a fresh start in Chch, with the mayoral elections. Im not sure that they now feel that they are seeing too much progress – apart from Ms Dalziel being honest about what we now can, and can not afford. I have no doubt that the Christchurch mayoralty is a pretty thankless task.
Her bigger risk will be her voters from the East, who are not getting what they thought they would be getting when she was voted in.
Epsom voters for national, keep voting for ACT, no matter how many of their MPs get done for fraud. There is none so blindly self interested as a National voter. Also, the biggest complaints in CHCH arent from right wing areas… they are all pretty good by now, and their rental investments are doing even better.
To Our Dear Tory Chum Puckish
National Party’s poll ratings over the last month: 50%…..50%…….57%…….50%…….50%……..48%…….51%…….55% = 51.3 average
National Party’s poll ratings at same distance from election in 2011:
57%……..57%…….51%…….54%…….56%…….57%…….56% = 55.4 average
(I might add, on top of this, that the 55% and 57% in recent weeks have both been Fairfax-Ipsos. No other polling Company has had them close to that. Make of it what you will)
National received 47% at 2011 Election (down 8 points on their polling this far out). Sooooo………
National will receive what ? at 2014 Election ? 51% minus 8 points is ………..? What’s the answer, Puckie ?
Thanks Swordfish. That gives me a glimmer of hope.
I guess Labour’s poor polling is to be expected considering the unrelenting attacks on Cunliffe in MSM over the past month, and the improvement in the Green vote in the Roy Morgan poll is a relief. I still cannot fathom why the Nats and Key get support from so many people.
dont under estimate the powering of marketing. People buy all kinds of things they dont need, or didnt even know they wanted, because of advertising. National has a master in manipulation of people in crosby textor
This is my response to the polls: on Saturday I shall go out door-knocking. On September 20th, the polls will turn out to have been a true or false indicator. If they prove true, this will suggest that the people who are not too troubled by Pike River, Christchurch, Glen Innes and much else, outnumber those who are, and who are scared for themselves and others. This will disappoint me, and cause me to wonder whether staying in NZ for me would be a bit like staying at a party at which I am not welcome. But for now, I shall go door-knocking and urge others to vote left. For me, to paraphrase Socrates, it is not about some small matter (like polls) but about how we shall live our lives.
If Labour/Greens lose for the reasons Olwyn has stated, then it is a terrible indictment on the majority of New Zealanders. It will show that the politics of avarice, selfishness and total disregard for the rights of others has become the new political mantra. In other words… the politics of the individual and the rest of you can go to hell in a hand basket.
The result will be catastrophic on so many levels and yes Jenny, global warming is a huge part of it. It will probably start with the USA falling over and the domino effect will kick in immediately. And you know what? I don’t have a tot of sympathy for any of them – including their children who will have to try and pick up the smashed pieces. I might add that includes members of my family who have become slaves to the “individualism is best belief model”.
@ anne..
“..It will show that the politics of avarice, selfishness and total disregard for the rights of others has become the new political mantra. In other words… the politics of the individual and the rest of you can go to hell in a hand basket…”
nine yrs of the clark labour govt. bedded that in..
..and so well prepared the ground for the pogrom on the poor being run by ‘ladders’ bennett…
..just ignoring the poor..has become the new norm..
..but it’s nothing that new..
..and all i recall there being said on that subject during those nine years..was nothing..
..the silences were deafening..
..the poor became the forgotten/ignored ones..
..everyone pretended the poor were just waving..not drowning…
..like i said..it’s nothing new..
Phillip I think you are too hard on Helen Clark’s government. It seems to me that governments at the present time are forced to act under considerable constraints – they have to borrow money to do things, and the conditions for this borrowing seem to include following quite a narrow economic line. That Labour government, and it seems also the present contender, saw increasing savings as a way of gaining some sort of choice in the matter. However, Clark’s government did not follow the line with anything like the mafia-esque zeal of the present lot, and people did not live in fear under her watch. In fact the poor man in Wellington who rang the police the night she lost the election, and who was roundly mocked by the media, showed some foresight as to what lay ahead.
olwyn..those clark years were when nz really had a ‘rock-star economy’…
..and clark govt didn’t ‘borrow’..they paid down debt..(remember.?..this was pre-g.f.c..)
..and for those nine long ‘rock star economy’ yrs..the clark govt did nothing for the poorest..
..in fact..clark wiped the ‘allowances’ benificiaries cd apply for..
..she made their lives worse/harder..
..and at the same time as doing absolutely nothing for the poorest for those nine long years..
..clark shed crocodile-tears over couples/families ‘struggling’ on seventy grand a year..
..as her reasoning for the bringing in of middle-class welfare..in the form of ‘working for (some) families’..
..these are all irrefutable-facts..olwyn..
..it’s not me ‘being hard’ on the clark govt..
.and a large part of labours’ current problem..
..is that looking at them all grouped together..
..except for the absence of clark..
…it is just like looking back at the govt of that era..
..there is really no sense of any renewal..any changes..
..it’s still goff/mallard/king etc..
..staring back at you..
..and in the main..parroting the same neo-lib politics..
..and many people are like me..
..not trusting them..seeing little real difference to their lot..
..shd labour get back in again..
..and isn’t cunnliffes’/labours’ swing back to the centre going well for them..eh..?
51% minus 8 points is ………..? What’s the answer, Puckie ?
The answer is National + Act + Maori Party = 3 more years for National and if needed theres good ‘ol Peter Dunne as well
But keep believing in the delusion that there will a massive, organic rising up of dissatisfied voters that will surge to polls and sweep in the left all while singing raise the red flag 🙂
Ahhh, a bit of a panicky reply there, sweet-pea. Not convincing at all. “a massive organic rising up of dissatisfied voters that will surge to polls” That’s nothing more than the panic-ridden gibberish of a man who’s just been caught out and hasn’t got an answer.
(Unintentionally) hilarious stuff.
No, Puckie, unlike you, my analysis remains firmly grounded in cold, hard, real polling stats. After soaring in the polls for an extremely long time, the Nats suddenly went into a nose-dive in the run-up to not only the 2011 but also the 2008 Election. Facts, my wonderfully colourful Tory chum, facts.
PR doesn’t work from facts.
Facts are wonderful things
Fact: National won the last two elections
Fact: All the leading polls (including Roy Morgan) put National of Labour/Greens ahead by a considerable amount
Now then you can say whatever you like but it doesn’t change the fact that National is in a stronger position in the run up to the next election then Labour/Greens are
Awww, it’s just not your day, is it, Pucks ?
Let’s take you through it slowly, shall we ?
Your contention is essentially that National’s poorer Poll position at the moment vis-à-vis 2011 doesn’t really matter because it’s superseded by the fact that “All the leading polls…put National of Labour/Greens ahead by a considerable amount.”
Now putting aside the obvious gibberish contained within that outrageously tortured sentence, you’re going to have to deal with this:
(1) Percentage point gap between National and combined Lab+Green in recent polls….10…….9…….22…….10…….9…….8…….11…….18 = average 12 points (once again, bear in mind the big gaps – 18 and 22 – are in the somewhat iffy Fairfax-Ipsos polls – they starkly contrast with all the others)
(2) Percentage point gap between National and combined Lab+Green in polls at same point in 2011…….20…….23…….9…….16…….18…….21…….19 = average 18 points
I say National will form the next government, who do you think will form the next government?
Fact: National did not win the last two elections. They were, however, able to form majority governments with the assistance of ACT, UF and the maori party. All 3 of those parties are on life support as a result of the association.
I stand corrected.
@ swordfish..
“..Facts, my wonderfully colourful Tory chum, facts…”
..heh..!
With low National voter turn out, because it was a done deal.
Not this time.
(1) Both Rob Salmond and Puddleglum have demolished that argument on their respective blogs.
(2) On top of that, not even Key or Joyce, let alone Farrar or Whaleoil, have made the Nats stayed at home argument for 2008. You’re suggesting 2008 was considered a done deal by ordinary National voters, are you ? An Election where the Nats slipped in by the skin of their teeth and where the very last, highly publicised, poll of the campaign put the Left slightly in front. And yet the average Tory voter was yawn yawn blasé ? Don’t think so, sweetness.
2011 you muppet.
And Key has, on many occasions.
See my comment at 10.2.1, you muppet.
The Nats took a nose-dive at both the 08 and 11 Elections.
So, Low National voter turnout because it was a done deal doesn’t cut the mustard, OK, sweet-pea ? Penny dropped yet ?
Fascinating how even in the face of factual contradiction of their “belief” they obsficate to create a new variation of their belief. It is hard for anyone to admit they have been lied to and duped. It seems some consider it better to keep looking foolish.
Thanks swordfish, for bringing the soothing balm of sanity to your analysis of the polls.
There’s no need to get high blood pressure over “the polls” when one see’s the reason and logic you bring. It’s a great service you do.
Just a shame it won’t translate into votes on election day
PR
I agree that swordfish neatly demonstrates that National’s current high poll numbers; “won’t translate into votes on election day”, once the undecided & nonrespondent choose which box to tick.
You are the only one here who thinks that is a shame though.
Swordfish was giving a factual analysis of this poll, past polls and how that might or might not reflect the outcome on election day… PR contribution is a kid of na-na-na-na-na.
Maybe we have a day here when no one replies to posts by PR! Gosman, srylands, etc and see how the day turns out.
your really pushing this one – its like… your… paid to do it
What a shiny crystal ball you have there PR! Be careful, your confidence may just come back to embarrass you on 20th September.
TRP has made a good point about the weakness of The Maori Party, Act and UF. You need to pay attention to that and just how close and tight things might be on the day.
Lol, and as for good ol’ Dunne as you put it, above, don’t count your chickens, he has become increasingly unpopular amongst the residents of Ohariu over the last 3 years.
At least I don’t sit on the fence
What do you mean?
Swordfish, I am desperate for a change of government and I admire your confidence, but really?
Is our confidence now based on historic poll trends and a hope that people who don’t care, will come and vote left. That my friend does not fill me with any confidence whatsoever.
There is no excitement about an alternative government, no underlying theme that there is time for a change.
This is a destructive government that should be easy to defeat. Yet Labour’s campaign looks like a train wreck proceeding in slow motion. Heck they still focussing on things like fucking Kim Dotcom.
My stress is turning to anger.
swordfish is posting an analysis of the polls to show how they may not reflect an accurate view of the electorate. That is nothing to do with having confidence or not.
The police have appointed special Maori unit with targets to bring Maori crime rates down or something.
Targets? Why can’t the outcomes be termed as a monitored projects and practicesa that show a steady decline. These to be discussed monthly by the team who can introduce mini projects on a short term basis. The kaupapa is that all is to be done firmly, fairly with a view to gaining co-operation, leading to law-abiding and positive activity in the group we will work with.
Otherwise targets give moral hazard. See The Wire for a scenario where stats are being manipulated, effort made where it will be appreciated by the bigwig in charge who is running for higher office. Oops do we have that now? If so stop it!
Danger danger, every time I hear “special” and “ethnicity” at the same time lots of nasty thoughts pass through my KGB trained mind….like the thinking by somebody (not us but) called “us” and “we”:
–once “we” have made an ethnicity special we can “target” “them”….
–“they” are “special” so they need “special treatment”…….
–now we can identify the “ethnicity” as “special and distinct” they can become “they”…aka not us.
Now would it not be nice if there was not a “special” unit set up by the Police to “target” “white” “middle aged men” who commit terrible financial crimes against the rest of “us”. Necessary actually but might be promoted like a cup of cold sick in the papers (owned by the same bunch).
Targets can be achieved easily as we see by fudging the figures. Not only in crime but in emissions and pollution of rivers and numbers in work and … Oh its a great thing to set targets! It looks as if you actually care!
Canterbury
There are parts of the city that aren’t doing well. But there’s nothing new in that
Waimakirri selwyen and Ashburton district are doing very well
Due to cows and population movement from chch
The media will highlight some poor bugger who dosent have a job in east chch living in a crap house
When down the road in rollestown the town is growing rapidly and workers are hard to find
The media are the opposite of pr company’s
A pr company will find a story and put a positive spin on it
In media misery sells
Be it garza ,car crash etc
It’s not that bad down here
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10277024/IPCA-backs-police-over-Dotcom-spying
when you ask a person to paint a fence and tell them they only have to paint one side, what other outcome can you expect but a half painted fence.
Or simply there was no case to answer
IPCA should be given its correct title, PACA–Police Arse Covering Authority.
Ordinary citizens might try and defend their next offence notice or charge with “I went with the advice I was given” or even “didn’t realise I was breaking the law”.
You do that and let us know how that works out for you
My attempt at humour obviously went over some heads; n.b. those charged with dispensing the law to others should have a damn good understanding of it AND apply it.
The security services and coppers just chose to ignore the law in respect to illegal snooping on Dotcom and others because it suited them to do so and they thought they could get away with it until a slip up by one of their own in court which first implicated the GCSB in the Dotcom raid and wider case.
And despite the digital era and 5 Eyes posturing traces of the bungling “pie and Penthouse” culture of the security forces seems to persist if the Herald obtained emails are anything to go on.
The advice they acted on, was not included as part of the review.
Any ongoing investigation of the investigation after that omission is meaningless wiffle-waffle
i bet johnkeyio reads this one
so state power breaks law – police dont lay charges – your cool with that
is that how it goes?
Kathryn Ryan continues with her high quality broadcasting
(That was a joke, by the way)
Nine to Noon, Radio NZ National, Thursday 17 July 2014
Believe it or not, that glib, complacent waste of space Kathryn Ryan went “live” to Radio NZ political editor Brent Edwards this morning, to discuss the report on the government’s illegal spying into New Zealand citizens. Incredibly, she referred to it as “allegedly illegal spying”, as if the chief government spin-meister Steven Joyce himself was hovering menacingly behind her. Brent Edwards, clearly flabbergasted by what she had said, restrained himself from contradicting her on air, but went out of his way to immediately reiterate that it was illegal spying. It was as close to an on-air correction he felt able to carry out.
I sent Ryan the following email, but I’m not expecting either a serious or coherent answer from her….
It was not “allegedly” illegal spying, as you incorrectly said
Dear Kathryn,
When talking to Brent Edwards, you spoke (perhaps unwittingly) of the “allegedly illegal spying” by the government.
Brent Edwards corrected you pointedly on air by immediately repeating the fact that it was illegal spying, not “allegedly” illegal spying.
I am disappointed that you are not more rigorous in your on-air comments. You occupy an influential broadcasting position; you have a duty to be fair and accurate in your comments.
Yours sincerely,
Morrissey Breen
Northcote Point
And yet you yourself refused to acknowledge, or apologize, when you blatantly used Barrack Obama’s middle name as if it were some sort of slander in one of your tedious ‘list of liars’ updates, despite not having previously used any leaders middle names, or indeed Obama’s middle name the previous time you’d featured him in the list.
Subsequent updates showed you’d taken the criticism and removed his middle name, but never commented on what you did.
Why is that, Morrissey?
And yet you yourself refused to acknowledge, or apologize, when you blatantly used Barrack [sic] Obama’s middle name as if it were some sort of slander in one of your tedious ‘list of liars’ updates
You mean “Liars of Our Time”….
Could you explain for those of us on Planet Earth how using his middle name would slander him? You will no doubt be writing to the President to upbraid him for slandering himself during his own inauguration….
….despite not having previously used any leaders [sic] middle names, or indeed Obama’s middle name the previous time you’d featured him in the list.
It was a stylistic flourish, nothing more, nothing less. Now, you just go right ahead and prove that I was trying to mobilize some of the anti-Islamic morons that lurk on this site. I look forward to your (no doubt impressive) exegesis.
Subsequent updates showed you’d taken the criticism and removed his middle name, but never commented on what you did.
I removed it because there was no good reason to keep it. I didn’t comment on it because it was an utterly trivial matter, signifying nothing. You, though, I have no doubt, will now prove irrefutably that I was engaged in a brutal assault on Obama’s reputation, along with my good friends Rush Limbaugh, Donald Trump and Leighton Smith.
Oh yes indeed.
Why is that, Morrissey?
I’ll leave that complex explanation up to you, my scholarly friend.
Olwyn mentioned Pike River above.
I’m half way through “Tragedy at Pike River Mine: How and why 29 men died” by Rebecca MacFie.
If you have questions about how the management and operations at Pike River Mine which was meant to be “a showcase of modern mining” got to be so bad that 29 workers were killed I recommend you read this book.
The research that has gone into the book is incredibly thorough. The history, steps and processes of the mine’s management are clearly spelled out as the miners go “marching to calamity” (which is the title of chapter 8).
It’s written in a way that is accessible for most readers – it will cause a reaction for most I should imagine though. It took me awhile to get through the prologue, I was in tears. Anger follows that as you begin to see how avoidable that disaster was.
Rosie, i will assume that the book goes into full detail and draws conclusions for its readers, while you are reading that book consider for a moment after the conclusion has been read that no-one has canvassed any ‘opinion’,(that i know of), suggesting that the first explosion at Pike River might well have been deliberate, an insurance job in other words for a mine that had come to realize that the golden seam of high value coal supposedly underground at Pike River did not exist,
To all extents and purposes the mine was facing insolvency and could not meet its targets to fill impending orders for which ships had been dispatched to collect,(even trying to buy coal from Solid Energy to fill such orders),
In His evidence to the Royal Commission the South African electrician, sent into the mine after the initial explosion, a man of 27 years experience in South African mines said, ”there was a strong smell of burned diesel in the mine, i have smelled this after the use of AMFRO explosives in mines in South Africa”,
Strangely no-one, as if they had agreed not to, bothered to ask the South African electrician any further questions about this smell,
The mine manager on the day, sorry the names of the players escapes me, in His evidence said that ”From the carpark of the mines office building, a kilometer from the mine, He smelled a strong smell of burned diesel”, this was after the mine had exploded, again no-one asked of Him what He thought could have been the cause of this burned diesel smell,
Methane Gas, the supposed cause of the initial mine explosion has when combusted no detectable odor,
The ‘investors’ in the Pike River Coal Company picked up a reputed $100 million insurance payout, i do not know if the book goes into these details, food for thought…
Well, that gets the pyroplastic flow award for the stupidest comment of the day, Bad.
I would not exactly drop that kind of speculation into a conversation just about anywhere bad.
Read the book for a start, it is very moving and full of detail.
Any “deliberate” contributing actions would be in the areas of industry de-regulation, safety and anti unionism.
That’s a rather ‘dull’ critique of my comment Tiger Mountain, i do not need to read a book to get the facts of what occurred t Pike River, i read the evidence given to the Royal Commission which i suggest you do,
Is there a ‘fact’ you wish to dispute from within my comment above or are you here to simply whine,
Which ‘speculation’ are you suggesting i do not drop into just any conversation and why, do you doubt that when combusted Methane Gas has no odor,
Are you perhaps suggesting that both the Pike River Mine Manager on the day of the first explosion at the mine, and, the electrician sent into the mine after the initial explosion either did not smell a strong smell of burned diesel or did not give evidence to that effect to the Royal Commission,
Speculation my arse, i have simply made an inference from the evidence given…
Speculation and inference are often synonyms, Bad. Where inference trumps speculation is the quality of the facts relied upon in making the supposition. In your case, you have leapt from two people* noting a smell of burning diesel after a huge explosion and consequent fire into a bizarro world claim about a conspiracy to commit mass murder for no actual financial gain**.
*We’ve only got your word that these two said any such thing. You used quotation marks, yet no such quotation exists. I call bullshit. Cite, please.
** The insurance payout did not financially benefit the shareholders and under our laws they were protected from the negative consequences of merely shutting the mine down. So why the fuck would they need your sad fantasy?
You are as usual full of shit TRP, the first piece of shit was the ‘huge explosion’ and fire,
The first explosion was not huge and there was no visible fire until after the subsequent explosions some days later,
The rest of your blather is just that, you obviously haven’t read anything about Pike River and probably got all your pathetic knowledge from the Tee Vee,
i might get around to digging out the link to the Pike River Royal Commission’s pages of evidence later TRP, but, seeing its you demanding such i would suggest you do not hold your breath,(then again maybe you should)…
You’re lying, Bad. Not only have I read the evidence, and pored over the report, I even attended some of the hearings. Nowhere in the evidence is there a reference to “burned diesel”. If there was, you’d have fronted up with it already. You’re a coward and a liar. You can’t even name the men who you claim said there was that smell, let alone provide evidence that they said it. Which they didn’t. The only quotation you have provided (”there was a strong smell of burned diesel in the mine, i have smelled this after the use of AMFRO explosives in mines in South Africa”) you wrote yourself. If I’m wrong, you’ll have no difficulty proving it; it’s all online.
Cite or apologise, you bullshit artist.
Laughable, you must be blind if you claim to have pored over the evidence, probably poured a bottle of whiskey down into your rotted gut first,
You did what attended a couple of days evidence and now your a world expert, what you are TRP is a cynical little wanker…
And yet I know you’re lying. Prove me wrong, show us the evidence. It’s not hard, it’s all online. Waiting, waiting …
If your low level abuse has a point TRP perhaps you would be kind enough to let the readers know what it is…
Hi bad.
Yes, the mine was heavily indebted to it’s investors including NZ Oil and Gas and a U.S lender, Liberty Harbor. Borrowed millions were bled away trying to get the mine built and running. A rosy glow was presented to investors that magnified production expectations and made light of the very serious issues, such as the collapse of the lower part of the ventilation shaft during construction. (thats only one example)So they kept on giving, they didn’t have the full picture. The lure of forecast $$$ must have been to great for them to question the reasons for the delay and budget blow outs.
The book goes into great detail about the dire financial position the mine was in.
I doubt 29 men were murdered for the sake of an insurance payout however.
Pike was a highly gassy mine and despite the experienced and safety conscience crew (which was also made up of inexperienced poorly trained men) the odds were stacked against them as Whitall ignored the huge amount of formal hazard notices piling up in the office.
One time, a new Aussie miner came to work in the mine before it was even in partial production, they were still building the 2.3km stone tunnel that led to the coal face. Without warning flames went over head, across the ceiling of the tunnel. The chipping of the stone from the roadheader machine used to dig the tunnel created sparks that ignited methane that was seeping out of rock. This occurred 10 times before anything was done about it.
He commented that in Aussie under their mine regulations such a near miss would mean immediate stop work and the evacuation of the men. He was one of many who after trying to reason with whitall about the dangerous conditions of the mine, left, disillusioned. Once again this is only one example of the the danger the men worked in daily and of managements inability to mitigate hazards and protect the workers from harm.
Under these conditions it was inevitable that there was going to be loss of life.
Have a read of the book, it’s probably available at the Kilbirnie library. The author simply provides the reader with the facts and reports the conversations she had with those she interviewed.
i read all the evidence given to the Royal Commission thanks Rosie, what you will notice everywhere is that no attempt by anyone has ever been made to explain the burned diesel smell which both the mine manager on the day and the electrician gave evidence of smelling,
The South African electrician even described it as the same as AMFRO explosives, as i point out above Methane Gas when combusted is odorless…
I understand there is additional info in the book that wasn’t aired during the Royal Commission of Enquiry, the author interviews for example.
I haven’t finished the book yet so don’t know whether the S.A electricians description of the burnt diesel /explosives smell is included. As such I’m reluctant to speculate where that smell may have originated from. I will let you know if it is covered though, as I get further into the book.
I’m remain doubtful that it could have potentially been an insurance job, given what I have read so far and given that would be mass murder.
Oh i see your point Rosie, to all extents and purposes that mine was a bomb waiting for a spark to ignite it, on at least half the 40 days leading up to the explosion the level of Methane in the mine was such that it could have exploded at any time a spark was struck,
During this 40 days ‘the Board’ had tasked someone to ‘find’ money to keep the mine running from outside sources as the major shareholders had balked at putting in any more coin, this fund-raising failed,
my question, did persons unknown get tired of waiting for the inevitable to occur,
Definitely let us know what the book concludes if anything Rosie,(and if either of the witnesses evidence of the burned diesel smell rates a mention, my guess it wont)…
wtf is “AMFRO”?
I think you might want to check your acronym.
True, it should read ANFRO, a mixture of ammonia nitrate and diesel…
No, it should have read “ANFO”. So that’s a red flag right there.
Secondly, the fact that methane burns without odour (no idea ifthat’s true or not) does not mean that there are no other combustible hydrocarbons in an active coal mine. Any mixture of which might smell similar to burned diesel.
Yeah, I’m not really convinced that you have enough dots strung together to go public and trample over graves with your theory just yet…
Wanker McFlock, who is trampling over anyone’s graves,(except you waving them round),
You too have obviously not read the evidence to the Royal Commission,
http://www.pikeriver.royalcommission.govt.nz/phase-3-hearing-transcripts
Knock yourself out…
How about you knock yourself out, fool? It’s your claim, why don’t you show us the evidence? You posted a busted link, btw. But the actual transcripts don’t back your fantasy up anyway, so I can understand why you won’t front.
So tell us TRP seeing as you claim oracle status, you of course are LYING, you were never anywhere closer to the Pike River Royal Commission than your TeeVee,
You tell us all exactly what the South African electrician said in His evidence, you having poured over every word of it should be able to quote Him verbatim…
“You tell us all exactly what the South African electrician said in His evidence,”
Yeah, why not. You’re not going to back up your lies, so I may as well inject some reality into the process.
One thing the electrician said when asked about the smell, and I quote, is it “isn’t really a diesel smell”.
The exact fucking opposite of what you claimed.
Still want to carry on bullshitting, Bad?
TRP, next you will be telling me there was no evidence given about the smell of cordite,
Now who is the fucking Liar TRP, it was Commissioner Bell that used those words to Strydom the South African electrician now why do you not quote the whole of (17 through to 20) the exchange between Commissioner Bell and the South African electrician Strydom for the readers,
Probably because when the whole exchange is quoted you are shown to be a bullshit artist right…
Sweet. ‘cordite’. You’ve finally found the real transcript, as opposed to the one in your head. But to be fair, I mistook a Q for an A, so, indeed it was the question from Bell from which I quoted. My bad, bad.
See, that’s how you admit a mistake. It ain’t hard.
Now how about you find the quotes from the two separate witnesses claiming “burned diesel”. If it’ll help, here’s your quote:
“there was a strong smell of burned diesel in the mine, i have smelled this after the use of AMFRO explosives in mines in South Africa”
Ah, I love the smell of bullshit in the morning. Smells like … burned diesel.
Te Reo Putere(to the truth), that really takes the cake doesn’t it, You in a headlong rush to wave your shriveled dick around as the ‘winner’ deliberately carve three words off of a question asked by Commissioner Bell and then attribute these three words to the South African electrician Strydom,
Caught out with your grand little LIE you then try to pass this off as an innocent mistake,
That might have been believable if at the same time you had of fessed up to the fact that Commissioner Bell and the South African electrician Strydom were discussing at the time the smell of EXPLOSIVES in relation to what Strydom had smelled in the Pike river mine on the day in question,
The fact that you did not make this confession, obviously straight after having read the exchange between Bell and Strydom makes you the cynical LIAR of note in this discussion,
Why did you carve off these particular words in an attempt at spreading a LIE Te Reo Putere(to the truth)”isn’t a diesel smell” from that quote, why did you not publish the whole question from Bell to Strydom,
Here let me help you with that, just so readers can get a proper sense of what you are deliberately LYING about,
”I mean to me Cordite isn’t a diesel smell, its more a smell to do with explosives, would–is that because of your South African experience with explosives or” unquote Commissioner Bell,
Now Te Reo Putere(to the truth), why do you not play the next verse in this song, how bout you publish the first six words of the answer that Strydom the South African electrician gave as an answer to Commissioner Bell….
You’re a sad wee fuck, bad. The weird thing is that if you’d actually checked, you could have run your fantasy around cordite, but instead you chose to make up “burned diesel” and invent a quote to justify it. Bullshit and Diversion. It’s all in your head, son. Get help.
So Te Reo Putere(to the truth), you now hide your LIES behind a gushing of infantile abuse,
Why cannot you answer the question Putere(to the truth), its simple enough even for you, after all ”you spent hours poring over the evidence”(fucking LIAR),
Here let me help you again, first with the question from commissioner Bell and second, just to make things clear for the readers, the first six words that Strydom the electrician gives as an answer to Bell’s question,(we will get around to why Bell is asking Strydom the question later, and later still we will get to the Mine Manager,(White’s), evidence of the heavy burned diesel smell),
Q, ”i mean cordite to me isn’t a diesel smell, its more a smell to do with Explosives, would — is that because of your South African experience with explosives or” unquote Commissioner Bell,
A, ”The smell is yes with explosives” unquote Strydom the South African electrician first into the mine after the original explosion,
Now why do you think Commissioner Bell is asking Strydom such questions Te Reo Putere(to the truth),
going off half cocked isn’t really going to achieve anything, is it, B?
You’re pissing around with a conspiracy theory that has no motive, no evidence (other than someone maybe comparing the smell to something else), and relies on previously incompetent mine management being able to competently kill 29 workers and get away with it.
Nice hobby you’ve got there.
You really are dense aint you Mac, a tragic small brained chimp, the Mine Management were DELIBERATELY incompetent,
Despite safety concerns being repeatedly raised the Mine Management DELIBERATELY ignored such concerns,
There is a world of difference between an incompetent and a DELIBERATE incompetent…
“………….and relies on previously incompetent mine management being able to competently kill 29 workers and get away with it.”
(Shee -it. Didn’t mean to spark off an upset.)
Except to say with my ordinary person’s understanding of the events at Pike River, that it can only come down to the above. People died because their management were completely incompetent in their ability to be proactive in regard to H&S in such an inherently dangerous workplace, one worse than other mines.
Adding a personality like Whitall, arrogant, bullying and single minded, but charismatic enough to bluff the big guys, reduced the chances of the workers of even having a half a chance to protect themselves from the dangers they knew were so apparent.
Rosie: I agree. But there’s a world of difference between that and bad’s implication of a deliberately set explosion that killed 29 people (“AMFRO” plus insurance payout on a failing mine).
Lolz relax Rosie, TRP has these little goes at me occasionally,(even to the extent that when i trot off to bed ‘it’ exercises ‘its’ overblown ego by declaring itself the winner),
Mac has long been the second string in the two string fiddle that TRP plays…
better a fiddle than a wind instrument.
You and your mate TRP Mac do one hell of a lot of fiddling with each other…
another implied allegation with no evidence whatsoever.
Your batting rate is pretty low today.
Lovin’ the homophobia, bad. 🙄
What homophobia is that Te Reo Putere(to the truth), i absolutely luuu-uuurve the idea that you two fiddle with each other ,
The very thought of the pair of you doing so has me grinning from ear to ear…
🙄
oh well, at least your fantasizing has moved on from “AMFRO”.
Bloody hell Bad12, you sure it’s only tobacco you’re growing there…
You may have the bones of a half decent fantasy there, but out of respect for the families I think you should remove any similarity to the pike river disaster.
And when you say “…..headlong rush to wave your shrivelled dick around” and “wanker McFlock…” along with all that other trash you normally save for Mr. Ure it’s a bit too late to then accuse others of “infantile abuse”.
Now we know you are working at achieving your target weight but it might be time to put down the pump phillip loaned you 🙂 and pick up a couple of toffee-pops or something..
p.s. look at McF and TRP as you would a friend who might not tell you what you want to hear, but has valuable advice all the same.
Plus, McFlock, there’s the fact that no one actually said “burned diesel”. Bad’s bullshitting.
Another OCR raise. And this while Mark Carney BoE governor says that there is no space in the economic and political reality to raise it in England. No other country is raising their OCR rates. Are Kiwi’s being fleeced so John Key’s Money trading mates can have a bit of a flutter?
For those listening to and reporting on the latest employment statistics
23 advertisements for the vacant position of a gumboot checker
does not mean there are 23 vacant gumboot checker positions
head – desk- repeat
Hmmmm sketchy old Bob Jones
“I’ll tell you what gets me – the sight of a little girl. It always puts a smile on my face. I lust after them”
Im sure you do Bob
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11294575
holy shit, talk about “out of context”.
Similar mr Jones, to the fascination of a little girl with a dolls house. You get all these things and people and put them in the rooms and pretend that they have a life and are part of your life. But you are always separate from them, unless you’re Alice in the Looking Glass of course and find bottles with drink me on them and change your persona. It would seem like a life-changing experience that. Though still not real.
The-Art-of-Deception
Training for a new generation of online covert operations
UK GCHQ powerpoint
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/document/2014/02/24/art-deception-training-new-generation-online-covert-operations/
Wonder if the fellas at the GCSB have similar ideas ?
While Bibi unravels so does 9/11
Given the anger aimed at the demise of the Herald, a column by Russell Brown on Public Address looks at the awful writings of Bernard Osman re the alleged disaster of Auckland’s finance. Andre Aessi pointed to a column by Dr Bassett. A dodgy anti left character to me but still he writes:
“The Collapse of the New Zealand Herald 12/03/2009
In case you hadn’t noticed it, the New Zealand Herald, the paper that used to claim to be the country’s premier paper of record, has abandoned this aspiration and seems intent on becoming a mere British-style tabloid. Its journalists are down to a skeleton of reporters; the sub editing (those who fit the headlines to the story below) seems to have fallen into the hands of deliberate troublemakers; and the editor, Tim Murphy, appears not to be in charge of what appears in his paper. …… and so on.
http://www.michaelbassett.co.nz/articleview2.php?id=202&yh=2009&yl=2008
Chilling comment about NZ being unable to provide decent standards for its people.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10275393/Red-zoned-provinces
Swaths of provincial New Zealand could be effectively “red zoned’ as local councils are forced to abandon their shrinking and ageing communities, a new report says.
In a wide-ranging look at the country’s future, the Royal Society of New Zealand’s report, Our Futures, says difficult decisions are looming in some districts – singling out the Kapiti Coast and Horowhenua – where the population is disproportionately of retirement age, and deaths outpace births.
These decisions could include making unpopular cuts to funding for roads, schools and medical services, and even abandoning some communities altogether, similar to the “red zoning” of parts of Christchurch after the 2011 earthquake, when whole suburbs were written off as economically unviable for habitation.
The Otaki MP is responsible for Horowhenua apparently and that is Nathan Guy, previously a dairy farmer. It would be a fine example of the skewed economy that our money-making dairying rock-star economy, couldn’t support their own area’s population needs.
I saw Phil Goff on Backbenches last night and I thought he came across extremely well
Particularly when he was asked about rape culture in NZ (not an easy question), he just went for it, talking about the roastbusters and the closure of the Chch rape crisis centre.
He was miles ahead of that annoying national woman Claudette Hauiti, who seemed to have left Gareth Hughes with a bemused expression wondering how he could be standing next to anyone so daft