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Open mike 17/09/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 17th, 2012 - 89 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step right up to the mike…

89 comments on “Open mike 17/09/2012 ”

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  1. RedBlooded 1
    17 September 2012 at 7:33 am

    Wow, Just watched ShonKey trying to defend his defense of Banks on Breakfast TV. To give him some credit, it is obvious even he doesn’t believe the weasel words he’s spouting re this issue. Hilarious to watch.

    • tc 1.1
      17 September 2012 at 7:48 am

      Quite sad IMO, Shearer’s inability to nail him along with the MSM simply going along with this ‘I’ve a view’ line.

      Wonder when someone in the media grow a pair and take him down over his lack of credibility….that’s rhetorical of course as no-one in the MSM has a pair.

      • Carol 1.1.1
        17 September 2012 at 7:59 am

        Well, in fact, it seems to me that the MSM is keeping up a certain amount of pressure on Key over Banks, albeit in a fairly muted way. They keep asking the questions:

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7687702/Key-fends-off-calls-to-sack-Banks

        Prime Minister John Key’s support for ACT leader John Banks is becoming increasingly untenable after he conceded there were a range of views on whether the Epsom MP had lied.

        Opposition MPs said it was obvious Mr Banks knew where donations to his failed 2010 Auckland mayoral campaign were coming from – and went out of his way to make them appear anonymous.
        …
        Labour leader David Shearer said Mr Key was refusing to read it because it was so damning.

        “He knows it will show that all the evidence points to the fact his minister has lied to him.”

        It was “negligent” for Mr Key not to read the file solely because it would mean he would have to sack Mr Banks, Mr Shearer said.

        “Everyone in New Zealand knows that Kim Dotcom, his bodyguard and lawyer have all independently given sworn testimony that John Banks knew about the donation.

        “Yet John Banks told the prime minister’s chief of staff, the media and the country that he did not know.”

        [hmmm… interesting the list of Nat MPs who’ve had to resign under Key’s watch at the end of the artlcle – includes a possiblereason why Worth had to resign].

        The problem for Key and the sycophantic MSM is that, Banks is falling out of favour with NAct voters, who know he lied and rorted the system. But they don’t really want to kill off National’s favoured support partner just yet….. hence, I guess the continuing but muted focus on Banks and pressure on Key over it.

  2. Carol 2
    17 September 2012 at 7:51 am

    NZ needs a government and/or opposition parties to really get on the case of how NZ’ers are cared for, as well as to be working towards safer and secure work places.

    Jan Logie Green MP is doing something helpful by getting on the case of the WINZ culture of dis-entitlement, as developed through medical assessments that deny help to the injured and sick on benefits.

    http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/winz-culture-no-better-acc-s

    Sunday, 16 Sep 2012 | Press Release
    Contact: Jan Logie MP

    An institutional culture of cost saving has led WINZ to the same strategy of disentitlement as ACC, said the Green Party today.

    WINZ are reviewing existing invalid and sickness beneficiaries with well-documented medical conditions for no other reason than because they are seen to be high cost. Designated doctors are assigned, trained and audited by WINZ. The same doctors can sit on Medical Appeal Boards.
    …
    “We all need to know if we are unable to work for medical reasons we can still survive. People should be treated with the respect they deserve. This is a fundamental social contract and ensures all New Zealanders who are unable to work for sound medical reason have a fair future.
    …
    “Given the seriousness of our findings the Green Party is calling for an urgent review into the review process for Invalid and sickness beneficiaries, said Ms Logie

    Meanwhile, too many NZ workplaces are not safe and/or healthy for workers, leaving them vulnerable to workplace injuries. This is where the real savings can be made on welfare payments to invalid and sickness benefits.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/7687873/Taskforce-targets-workplace-injury-toll

    Bigger fines and tougher penalties for companies and directors could be one of the ways to improve New Zealand’s deplorable workplace injury and death toll.

    The just-published Safer Workplaces report by the Independent Taskforce reveals New Zealand’s workplace safety record is twice as bad as Australia’s and four times as bad as Britain’s, and that those injured in the workplace each year would fill Eden Park four times over.

    But, instead, our government keeps looking to make savings by targeting NZ’s most vulnerable, from the unemployed, to children in poverty, and to the infirm elderly.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/7687793/Patients-needing-home-help-sacrificed-in-cuts

    DHB chief executive Mary Bonner said last month that no sacrifices had been made even though the board had cut $80 million off its budget.

    But Mrs Plunket said “home support cost cuts is the elephant in the room, which is growing as fast as the ageing population”.

    Access North Island general manager David Chrisp said he did not know the specific case, but services would be reduced only if a client was assessed to be able to manage with less help.

    Grey Power Kapiti president Trevor Daniel said he had received more than 20 complaints about local home care hours being cut, which had been passed on to the board.

    “Old people are very reluctant to complain in case they get targeted. They are very grateful for what they get and do not want to kick up a fuss. Very few of them are willing to stand up,” he said.

    Now is the time for opposition parties to really stand up and OPPOSE the nasty elite-supporting government who target the vulnerable and powerless with vicious and punitive policies, while doing nothing to improve the future prospects for the country.

    • just saying 2.1
      17 September 2012 at 8:23 am

      Thanks for this Carol. Your work is appreciated.

    • r0b 2.2
      17 September 2012 at 8:39 am

      Hi Carol – is the email address that you use here active / read?

    • Bill 2.3
      17 September 2012 at 11:28 am

      From a link provded by xtasy the other day that leads to an official presentation by the illustrious Principal Health Advisor Dr David Bratt….a Labour Party appointee. It reads as a bizarre appeal to, or echo of, views straight from the early 1900’s that viewed unemployed people as feckless or mentally and morally deficient and ‘the job’ as a general panacea.

      •Health Risk equals smoking 10 packs of cigarettes per day (Ross 1995)
      •Suicide in young men > 6mths out of work is increased 40x (Wessely, 2004)
      •Suicide rate in general increased 6x inlonger-term worklessness (Bartley et al, 2005)
      •Health risk and life expectancy reduction is greater than in many “killer diseases”(Waddell & Aylward 2005)
      •Greater risk than most dangerous jobs
      •the “benefit” – an addictive debilitating drug with significant adverse effects to both the patient and their family (whānau) – not dissimilar to smoking
      •and NZ doctors write 350,000 scripts for it every year!

      No effects by being exposed to an adversarial WINZ culture, of course!

      http://www.gpcme.co.nz/pdf/2012/Fri_DaVinci_1400_Bratt_Medical%20Certificates%20are%20Clinical%20Instruments%20too%20-%20June%202012.pdf

    • David H 2.4
      17 September 2012 at 1:44 pm

      Excellent post as usual Carol. Unfortunately we do not have an opposition party that can do anything about the situation as the Q+A program showed yesterday. And that truly does leave me with grave fears for the unemployed, young, sick, and injured. because if we have to wait untill 2017 to get rid of the Nats then NZ will be as desolate, divided, and broke as America is now. Morally and Financially.

      • Dr Terry 2.4.1
        17 September 2012 at 7:51 pm

        David, for a moment there I thought you were referring to 2012!! The point is, we should not and cannot afford to wait at all – let alone until 2017. Disaster is upon us right now!!

        • Carol 2.4.1.1
          17 September 2012 at 7:55 pm

          Well, apart from anything else, I’m now with those who think there will be a change in Labour leadership before the end of February/March. I hope they choose someone who can deliver what’s necessary – but that’s no certainty.

        • David H 2.4.1.2
          17 September 2012 at 9:31 pm

          No Terry I did mean 2017 as from what I can see now, Labour hasn’t got a shits show of winning in 2014. Me I voted Labour all my life, and it’s going to feel funny ticking different boxes next time round, Because from what I see now, until Labour have a complete clean out then they CANNOT connect with the electorate. And that’s the biggest reason that many did not vote last time, and I really can’t see them having any reason to vote this time (2014) either. the way the poor are treated in this country is disgusting, and the silence and incompetence from Labour do not give hope to anyone.

    • aerobubble 2.5
      17 September 2012 at 3:29 pm

      Yes. One size fits all welfare processing will see more unintended consequences.

  3. mickysavage 3
    17 September 2012 at 7:56 am

    John Key has the dog whistle out and is blowing it for all it is worth.  Apparently article 3 of the treaty meant that Maori surrendered all rights to water to the Crown.  The only problem with this is that it says no such thing.

    The european version of the treaty provides “[f]or this agreed arrangement therefore concerning the government of the Queen, the Queen of England will protect all the ordinary people of New Zealand and will give them the same rights and duties of citizenship as the people of England. ”

    So obviously article 2 is paramount and the protection of all “their Lands and Estates Forests Fisheries and other properties which they may collectively or individually possess” remains.

    In any event article 3 gives them “rights and duties of citizenship” which is related to ensuring they have the legal protection afforded by the law.  It clearly was not intended to take those rights away from Maori.  The fact that under common law you may not own something does not mean that if you own it pursuant to the treaty you then lose it.  Besides you cannot have a right to something you cannot own.

    Key should have stuck to merchant banking. 

    • Bored 3.1
      17 September 2012 at 8:40 am

      Key has stuck to the prime premise of “bankster” merchant banking: The law DOES NOT APPLY to merchant bankers.

      • Colonial Viper 3.1.1
        17 September 2012 at 8:53 pm

        And in the US its absolutely true. Only a handful…and I mean that literally…of senior bankers have been indicted for the massive destruction and hundreds of billions in fraud their industry has cost the real economy.

        As an aside, the big banks (and their employees) donate millions to the Republicans AND the Democrats every election cycle.

    • tc 3.2
      17 September 2012 at 9:41 am

      He still is Mickey, trading your kids future to enrich his mates and getting the PM junkets along the way.

      He’s meet presidents and leaders, done a royal wedding, opened a rugby world cup and taken max to the football world cup….. and as an added bonus he gets to plump up his share portfolio by playing blind man’s bluff.

      Best job Eva, pity the pay sucks but as he’s hardly ever there doing any actual PM stuff it’s still a great gig.

  4. Colonial Viper 4
    17 September 2012 at 8:26 am

    ZeroHedge summarises quotes from a couple of dozen architects and engineers re: the collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11

    http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-09-15/911-mysterious-collapse-wtc-building-7-was-not-inside-job

    eg.

    How did the structures collapse in near symmetrical fashion when the apparent precipitating causes were asymmetrical loading? The collapses defies common logic from an elementary structural engineering perspective.

    ***

    Heat transmission (diffusion) through the steel members would have been irregular owing to differing sizes of the individual members; and, the temperature in the members would have dropped off precipitously the further away the steel was from the flames—just as the handle on a frying pan doesn’t get hot at the same rate as the pan on the burner of the stove. These factors would have resulted in the structural framing furthest from the flames remaining intact and possessing its full structural integrity, i.e., strength and stiffness.

    Structural steel is highly ductile, when subjected to compression and bending it buckles and bends long before reaching its tensile or shear capacity. Under the given assumptions, “if” the structure in the vicinity … started to weaken, the superstructure above would begin to lean in the direction of the burning side. The opposite, intact, side of the building would resist toppling until the ultimate capacity of the structure was reached, at which point, a weak-link failure would undoubtedly occur…

    • Bored 4.1
      17 September 2012 at 8:56 am

      Personally I don’t give a flying monkeys about the Twin Towers except to say that they represent a very large excuse for ongoing imperial aggression from a petro super power. Roll on the end of the oil age when the USA may once again attempt to live up to the rhetoric of “the land of the free” and “the champion of democracy”.

    • tc 4.2
      17 September 2012 at 9:44 am

      Yes this and the carriers not being in Pearl Harbour when attacked, as that would’ve done their navy some serious damage in WWII, one could say show the US isn’t too fussed about how it gets it’s way.

      I’ve always wondered how come the camera work on the jet crashing into the tower looks so good, almost as if….mmmm

      • A.Ziffel 4.2.1
        17 September 2012 at 10:48 am

        Almost as if cameras were trained on the towers waiting for something to happen?
        Your use of the singular suggests monumental ignorance.

        Obviously between 08:46 & 09:03 as emergency services were mobilised, so too were the media, covering the fire in the north tower.

      • Bored 4.2.2
        17 September 2012 at 8:16 pm

        Reflecting on the US of WW2…I recently spoke to the son of a US serviceman who married a NZer whilst posted here in 1942. We mused on the US / NZ relationship of today. Seventy years ago they were our friends and allies in a way it is hard to conceive he said. Without their help we were destined for Japanese occupation and the horrors that came with that. Yes they were an imperial power who did not come to our aid for ascetic reasons, but we can be thankful they did. NZ fought alongside the Yanks, willingly and as real comrades.

        So where are we today with the USA? Cant stand the imperialism, the banksters and the hucksterism, scoff at the “American way of life”. Yet pretty much every American I meet could be our neighbour, a mate. Having said that we cheer the All Blacks together and the stand is full of the Parnell Shonkers set. All very confusing.

        • Colonial Viper 4.2.2.1
          17 September 2012 at 8:38 pm

          Americans are, largely, a hugely friendly and hospitable people.

          There are a few who may be of concern (see link):

          http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/photos/

          But largely, its their political and business leadership (I use the term loosely) over 25 years which has led that country on a massive nose dive underneath its true potential.

    • Lanthanide 4.3
      17 September 2012 at 10:14 am

      I’ve always seen WT7 as the weakest link in the chain for the conspiracy theorists to attack, because what happened to it really does seem quite strange.

      As TPTB have no interest in doing another investigation, I doubt we’ll ever get any different story than the current official one.

      The other large problem the conspiracy theorists have is that a controlled demolition of any of these towers, let alone all 3, would require dozens, if not hundreds, of people to be involved. Unless they were all knocked off by the state, it seems eventually one of them would leak their involvement with sufficient proof. 11 years and this still hasn’t happened.

      • Colonial Viper 4.3.1
        17 September 2012 at 11:03 am

        Unless they were all knocked off by the state, it seems eventually one of them would leak their involvement with sufficient proof. 11 years and this still hasn’t happened.

        Yeah this is definitely a very interesting consideration/criticism.

    • insider 4.4
      17 September 2012 at 4:18 pm

      Basically because the massive inertia in the structure above meant the main force was straight down and that overcame any lateral force that initiated the collapse. You see WTC 2 clearly twist and the top lean out but then the supporting floors fail and the whole lot then goes straightish down but debris is spread over 100m from the base of the structure.

  5. prism 5
    17 September 2012 at 9:30 am

    Note that Mike Williams is the left wing commenter on Radionz left-right today after 11 am. Josie Pagani having a holiday?

    • Chris 5.1
      17 September 2012 at 11:54 am

      Listened for Mike Williams on RNZ but ended up listening to Hootons Half Hour. He is the most obnoxious rude and bad mannered person,Hooton I mean.WHY is he allowed to take over every conversation that Williams started and is then allowed to take over the rest of the discussion(for want of a better word).I would have just walked out.Bl——dy annoying!!!!!!

      • Anne 5.1.1
        17 September 2012 at 12:42 pm

        Agreed. It’s infuriating. Kathryn Ryan is successful (sometimes) in stopping him in his tracks but this woman Freeman doesn’t even try…

        Mind you it’s William’s job to complain about it. Today was one of the worst instances I’ve heard from Hooton. His final shout denigrating David Shearer as hard as he could…obnoxious. Who was it who day after day – along with Michelle Boag – exhorted the Labour caucus to pick Shearer for Leader because he was the best man for the job.

        OK David S. now you know the truth. Hooton is a bastard!

        • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.1
          17 September 2012 at 3:09 pm

          Mind you it’s William’s job to complain about it.

          Williams should be taking the lead back.

          • insider 5.1.1.1.1
            17 September 2012 at 3:49 pm

            being a bit sad I timed them (as I hadn’t listened so it was a good opportunity to do so) and Hooten just out talks williams by almost 2:1. But Williams did invite Hooten to interject a couple of times, but then he did initiate a bit of argy bargy overtalking. It was otherwise a very gentlemanly display of your turn, my turn.

            Mike is a blokey kind of talker, so he expresses an idea and then stops. Hooten just talks and talks and rarely leaves a gap. Nothing sinister, just style.

            • Anne 5.1.1.1.1.1
              17 September 2012 at 5:30 pm

              Yeah, I agree insider.

              Its called a strategic style. He’s had a lot of practice and has it down to a fine art – even to the ‘gentlemanly’ chuckle after a particularly nasty barb.

      • prism 5.1.2
        17 September 2012 at 6:27 pm

        Mike Williams did manage to over talk him at one stage. So Hooten’s not impenetrable.
        And Lynn Freeman did ask some penetrating questions. But Hooton’s a great sneerer and obnoxious when he gets like that.

  6. Anne 6
    17 September 2012 at 9:41 am

    They seem to take it turn about prism. One week it’s Pagani and the next week it’s Williams. I wish it was Williams every week . Hooton is there every Monday.

  7. Brokenback 7
    17 September 2012 at 9:53 am

    Loss of Sovereignty:
    many of us are well aware that the smokescreen associated with Free Trade Agreements is well orchestrated by those that will benefit most from these dubious “Treaties”.
    Seldom is it confirmed in MSM as clearly this gem

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10834522

  8. NickS 8
    17 September 2012 at 11:18 am

    Oh no: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/feisty-rudd-stirs-leadership-rumours-20120912-25sw2.html

    Ruddkips is at it again, seemingly ignoring completely why the party kicked him out of the leadership position in the first place…

    • Murray Olsen 8.1
      17 September 2012 at 11:36 pm

      My impression at the time and place (Brisbane) was that he got kicked for wanting to hit some of the big miners with a super profits tax. It was the right of the Labor Party which got rid of him. This is the same right who seem quite happy to continue a lot of Howard’s policies with respect to the Northern Territory and nautically arriving refugees. In Queensland, fighting for white people to not be put in detention camps is enough to label yourself as a socialist. The Labor State Premier during the Howard years thought Howard’s cutting of human rights with “anti-terrorism” legislation didn’t go far enough and wanted extended powers for Queensland. Instead of military shutdown of whole streets, he wanted whole suburbs, for example. Australian politics is weird.

      • millsy 8.1.1
        17 September 2012 at 11:48 pm

        I posted on the ALP’s facebook page asking why they support the privatisation of state electricity networks. It seems my post went into the ether. Along with that facility.

  9. Jackal 9
    17 September 2012 at 1:15 pm

    National… Masters at passing the buck

    Instead of actually creating enough jobs to ensure there is less welfare dependency by increasing opportunity, National is playing to peoples prejudices and fostering resentment against those they perceive to be inferior. This is ultimately detrimental to the fabric of our society…

    • David H 9.1
      17 September 2012 at 2:16 pm

      Looking at that document there is one glaring omission Superannuation it’s nowhere in the PDF at all. Seems to me that if you are going to spend a million bucks on a report that counts the cost of people on benefits for their lives then you really should add in super. Or am I missing something here?

      • Jackal 9.1.1
        17 September 2012 at 3:07 pm

        Exactly! National haven’t included Superannuation because they’re not in the targeted group and National have no answers to the growing cost of looking after our aging population. Hope and pray is about the best they can come up with.

        As an update, today 3 News reported:

        Beneficiaries who fail to answer three phone calls and a voicemail from Work and Income are being told they’ll have their welfare payments slashed in half.

        A step to far to the right off the ledge if you ask me.

        • Carol 9.1.1.1
          17 September 2012 at 3:21 pm

          Well, I have recently heard of a way that WINZ is trying to lower the cost of superannuation. From reports of people I know who have applied for super recently, it seems WINZ are trying to encourage all those who are eligible, to apply for any over-seas state pensions they are entitled to.

          I get a small amount of UK state pension – different system there, like Aussie, what you get is based on what you paid into the scheme when you worked there.

          I had to apply for my UK state pension through WINZ, who have my allocation on record. WINZ told me, when I am old enough to get NZ super, my UK (and any Aussie super I get), will be deducted from my NZ super entitlement, and I’ll get what’s left (if anything).

          It seems that when Kiwis now apply for NZ super, if WINZ know they worked somewhere like the UK or Aus, they get a letter from WINZ suggesting they apply for their entitlement in the other country/ies.

          • xtasy 9.1.1.1.1
            18 September 2012 at 2:41 am

            Carol: This has been going on for very many years already!

            Any migrant or NZer, who ever worked long enough overseas to get any entitlement to a pension or comparable entitlement in another country, will have to declare this when applying for NZ super or retirement income.

            Such persons have to first use their entitlement from overseas, and after that having been deducted from the NZ super, then the balance is all they get here.

            It is another smart way of the NZ government to “save” costs.

            So any person who earned and saved for retirement overseas has done that somehow for no benefit or gain at all, if such a person retires in NZ. All one gets is the balance to the maximum NZ retirement payment.

            Only those that have got more entitlement overseas than what they would ever get in NZ would be better off. They though would get nothing here in that case.

        • Augustus 9.1.1.2
          17 September 2012 at 4:25 pm

          Last time I looked there was no legal requirement to have a phone. WINZ won’t include a phone in unavoidable expenditure calculations, unless one has a doctors’ certificate saying one needs one. So a simple: “I haven’t got a phone” should knock that one over.

  10. prism 10
    17 September 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Retired road policing manager can speak out now about the disappointment that the police felt at the government’s refusal to act to drop the general alcohol limit to .05 instead of .08. Instead the government has set up a two year study so they can say precisely how much extra risk they are willing to expose us to by doing as little as possible for as long as possible. Why worry, have another li’l glug of whisky or wine, a bit of song and the women will soon turn up. We’re paying and we can afford it, what’s more we deserve it!

    Very funny that, going all solemn about research. Funny in all ways. One way is that they don’t give a f..k about statistics, findings or research unless forced to. They much prefer to do what feels gooood for us NACTs. Fatheads and fat-ars..s they are examples of a lack in NZ education alright, that of critical thinking, human philosophy and strategic planning and vision for policies for the good of the whole country.

    • David H 10.1
      17 September 2012 at 4:29 pm

      Yep I had to go to Kiwislime blog for this as it’s vanished from the Herald site.

      The Government has blood on its hands for refusing to lower the drink-drive limit, a departing senior road policing boss says.

      Superintendent John Kelly, who set up national highway patrols, retired on Thursday after six years overseeing the roads of Auckland’s sprawling Waitemata district and 35 years on the force.

      He told the Herald on Sunday that John Key’s National Party ignoring calls for the drink-drive limit to be slashed two years ago was his biggest career frustration. He believed it had potentially contributed to more than 60 road deaths since.

      “Between 250 and 300 people are still dying annually on the roads but if we had lowered the drink-drive limit when we could have, there might have been 30 or so of those people still alive every year,” said Kelly.

      And as usual Whaleshit has the usual fools running off at the mouth as at Kiwislime. Jeeze there’sz some troglodytes in this country.
      http://www.thefreedictionary.com/troglodyte
      A person considered to be reclusive, reactionary, out of date, or brutish.

      • prism 10.1.1
        17 September 2012 at 6:18 pm

        David H 10.1
        To save yourself getting bogged in the Slough of Despond at Kiwiwhatname, you can also very likely pick up news info on Radionz site – click News from the top list and there are set out all the items in summary form each of which can be clicked to give the full details. Use our Radionz, we want to keep it.

        • David H 10.1.1.1
          17 September 2012 at 9:43 pm

          Thank you Prism. I bow to your superior knowledge.

          • prism 10.1.1.1.1
            18 September 2012 at 9:26 am

            David H 10 1 1 1
            Very wise of you. It’s good to be acknowledged, so rare! I like most of your stuff by the way. Some good points made. Cheers.

  11. DotToDot 11
    17 September 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Where Silence Is Consent

    The deafening silence from opposition parties in the week since the announcement by Fletcher Building of NZ’s first major Public Private Partnership is an eloquent statement of their lack of consistency and courage. This has huge economic, social and even constitutional implications.

    In economic terms, it will be at least as bad a deal as the energy privatisations. PPP ‘savings’ to the taxpayer are *always* illusory. Worse than that, it’s a precedent for a whole raft of PPP deals that will ultimately give National’s cronies even more that they could expect from the privatisations.

    This PPP will likely entail:
    – Underwriting a large scale speculative venture by the private sector partners, guaranteeing their profit and socialising any potential losses (e.g. a guarantee of 90% occupancy makes betting against penal reform a one-way bet).
    – Driving down wages and conditions in a de-unionised environment.
    – Creating a private prison lobby and dictating public policy for the next 25 years, possibly putting penal reform off the agenda.
    – Eroding the capacity of the State to perform its fundamental role.
    – Entrenching this against future governments by signing an agreement enforceable in international tribunals (e.g. under the TPPA).

    How many government supply agreements are there that run for 25 years? Especially ones that dictate broader public and social policy. This seems a fundamental breach of the principle of parliamentary sovereignty. Opposition parties should loudly reserve the right to repudiate such agreements.

    Such ventures in the UK and Australia have produced almost nothing but grief (and expensive grief at that). Speak up Labour and Greens, we can’t hear you!

  12. Ed 12
    17 September 2012 at 2:01 pm

    Meanwhile real money lies in taking a margin through a management contract:

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/116008/serco-expects-$30m-revenue-from-wiri-prison

    Why one company is thought of as experts in all of design, build and then operate a prison is beyond me – and a contract for 25 years seems unnecessarily long.

    Legislation will doubtless be rammed through under urgency . . .

  13. Murray Olsen 13
    17 September 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Invoke Godwin’s Law all you like, but Paula isn’t the first to work out lifetime costs:
    http://www.exostispress.gr/images/HTML/427/Fahr1.jpg

  14. Fortran 14
    17 September 2012 at 2:38 pm

    If you didn’t look, but just listen, David Shearer could be Bill Rowling – also a nice bloke.

  15. captain hook 15
    17 September 2012 at 2:49 pm

    well if her figure of $78 Billion is right then no wonder they want to privatise it.
    a chunk of that would buy infinite bckets of KFC, Big Macs and Waitakere Whizzzzzz.

  16. Draco T Bastard 16
    17 September 2012 at 3:19 pm

    Precious little sense on Planet Paula

    The above mentioned Cabinet paper suggested the Government might want to “revisit the question of whether forward funding would enhance the performance of the benefit system even further”.

    How we count, and what we count, matters.

    How many of us would think of children as affordable if we were told that we’d need to have, upfront, the lifetime cost of a child before being permitted to bring one into the world?

    Just so you know, a 2009 Inland Revenue estimate reckoned the cost of raising one child to 18 at $250,000.

    A good article by Tapu Misa showing the illogic of forward funding.

    • Carol 16.1
      17 September 2012 at 3:49 pm

      Yes, another excellent piece from her. i like the way she turns the table on the Nat spin line, attacking Labour constantly as “Planet Labour”.

      And her her article includes comparisons with the attempt to prepare ACC for privatisation by manufacturing a “welfare crisis”. She also says that National should be consistent in its accounting by measuring poverty and keeping accurate records on the numbers of jobs being created and destroyed. She is critical of the governments statistics on the latter.

    • David H 16.2
      17 September 2012 at 9:45 pm

      Planet Paula. That would be the Gas Giant, full of nothing but hot air.

    • Ed 16.3
      18 September 2012 at 7:42 am

      The logic of forward funding by government is that of putting money aside in good times to meet the cost of benefits in poorer times – itis what Michael Cullen used to create the NZ Super Fund – there costs were expected to rise as a large cohort of baby-boomers went through retirement. Another reason for the funding was so that the baby-boomer generation did not leave a large liability on the (smaller) cohorts following. The same rationale could e used for benefits, but the difference is that under National we are not, and don;t look like ever getting, those government surpluses from which the additional savings can be made.

      • Draco T Bastard 16.3.1
        18 September 2012 at 8:38 am

        Yes, I understand that. It’s just that such a plan is delusional.

        It’s delusional because money is not a resource. When it comes down to actually providing the services that the money is to pay for we’re going to need to have the people with the skills, the equipment and everything else needed to provide them. No amount of money will provide these things if they don’t exist and we don’t have a plan to provide them. All we’ve got is a plan to put money aside and hope that those services will be available which they probably won’t as the Rena grounding proved.

  17. grumpy 17
    17 September 2012 at 3:45 pm

    Still waiting for Jenny to come out with her wholesale support for the Islamic riots, violence and murders over the weekend.

    Arab Spring – yeah right!

    • Jokerman 17.1
      17 September 2012 at 4:31 pm

      Satellite news media referring to ‘Arab Winter’ now. precession to another ‘winter’?
      Aus authorities provided with all power/s to identify computer-generated SMS initiating anti-US riots in Sydney (to be repeated next w/e as well)

      • McFlock 17.1.1
        17 September 2012 at 4:52 pm

        computer-generated SMS initiating anti-US riots in Sydney

        Translation: messages to Facebook group members will be monitored.
        FFS, “computer-generated SMS initiating anti-US riots” sounds like skynet, not social networking. 

        • Jokerman 17.1.1.1
          17 September 2012 at 5:34 pm

          yes the dystopian future is here
          off to serve now ( and i have many compassionate friends, thank you B(u)rney);learning to blog in a safe and helpful manner by self is slow process to work around gardens
          might volunteer also at the very local radio station; they present probing news summaries and play some really cool music.

  18. Treetop 18
    17 September 2012 at 4:09 pm

    Cambell Live 7 pm tonight is comparing the lunches of two schools. Saw a clip on this, the empty desk tops or two slices of bread copmpared to a few items in a lunch box puts it into perspective.

  19. Vicky32 19
    17 September 2012 at 6:19 pm

    TV 3 strikes again, with an item putting the US view of what the Sky reporter calls ‘our mission’ in Afghanistan. You’d never believe from this guy, that there was any disagreement about ‘our mission’…

  20. Penny Bright 20
    17 September 2012 at 6:24 pm

    Joining the National Day of Action Against Welfare Reforms

    Friday, October 5, 2012
    12:00pm until 3:30pm in UTC+13
    Henderson Square, WINZ Henderson, Bennett’s Office
    This is a page to co-ordinate the Auckland Action/s.
    Proposed Plan:
    12.00: Rally Henderson Square , Catherine St, near G.N.Rd
    12.30: March to Henderson WINZ.
    1pm: Protest Henderson WINZ, 36 Sel Peacock Drive.
    2pm: March to Paula Bennett’s office.
    2.30: Protest Bennett’s Office, 429 Great North Rd

    http://againstwelfarereforms.wordpress.com/
    Please share and invite!!

    Note: It is not the intention to occupy the WINZ offices, as this will lead to serious issues with tresspass notices being issued. It is also not the intention to interfere with staff going about their daily work. We are protesting the system, the culture of WINZ, and government policy. We are not protesting the individual workers – harrassment of WINZ employees is NOT condoned by the organisers of National Day of Action.

    Calling on academics, parents, and our community to unite.

    Vulnerable parents, and vulnerable communities create vulnerable children.

    The Government has been rolling out policy it says will help curve child poverty and change NZ shocking child abuse rates. However, punitive measures are attacking the poor and putting chi
    ldren at risk.

    “The Government is attacking beneficiaries with the guise of protecting children, but stripping parents and our communities of what’s left of any supportive foundations is harming those we should be fighting to protect. Parenting is not a privilege of the rich. We are heading down a dark path where sole parents are being victimised and abused by the state, instead of supported and respected as our most important asset in stopping abuse against children in this country. It’s time our society stopped letting our Government shape our ideology, and had a real discussion about the direction we are heading. In order to change the abuse our children suffer, we must start to value parenting as an important role in society.”

    “Beneficiaries are an easy target for Governments to attack, because beneficiaries are in hard times, struggling to survive and make the best out of a hard situation, so organising any form of united front against such attacks is hard work. Picking on sole parents is easy to do, but at what cost?

    The Government now states they are slashing benefits if parents don’t comply with the new regime. If a parent who is struggling on a benefit gets their benefit cut 50%, who is being punished?

    The children.

    It’s the children who will be going hungry. This is the reality! Children will and are suffering from this Government’s punitive measures.

    Parents must unite and draw support from each other, to tell this Government that “we won’t let them attack our children any longer.”
    Sole parents are not irresponsible timewasters, who can be replaced by institutional day-care centres. Parents are our children’s first and most important teachers. Sole parent are the parents who have taken on the responsibility of raising the child, and have dedicated themselves to this important task. We don’t see this Government chasing up the parent who is not financially supporting the parent who is caring for the child. No, we see women being told they need contraceptives, and to get back to work.

    Parenting is work. It’s the most important work in this country.
    We have the research that shows day-care is not a substitute for good parenting. We can’t let this Government treat children like a disposable commodity anymore. Children are our Toanga, and we dam well need to protect them.

    There were some great academics contributing to the Green Paper on Vulnerable Children who stood up and spoke out against this Governments agenda of benefit bashing. We need these academics to help us unite and have a voice in this country.

    There must be a debate, at the moment all we have is one punitive measure after another hitting the poor like bombs. This is a call to action for everyone and anyone who is concerned about the direction of our society.

    Every single parent on the benefit who is being attacked needs to join together to have a discussion. We need the community to help turn this into a discussion, instead of a war on the poor.

    It isn’t just parents under attack, those members of our community who are unwell are also under huge pressure.

    People looking for work are being punished for not finding it, when it’s the Government who have destroyed the jobs in this country and continue to do so.
    All beneficiaries must unite, and we need help to do this!’

    http://www.facebook.com/groups/360890093983840/

    Other Centres:
    CHRISTCHURCH http://www.facebook.com/events/359769487433655/
    Organising meeting, Monday 17th Sep. 7pm at WEA 59 Gloucester street..contact Jo on 0221726120
    WELLINGTON https://www.facebook.com/groups/501414736555115/ – contact kylebowater@gmail.com
    HAMILTON http://www.facebook.com/events/406160476105876/
    DUNEDIN https://www.facebook.com/events/284916358279500/
    ♥
    Supporting Groups: ( We will add more as they join)

    Waitemata Branch of Unite Union

    Against Welfare Reforms
    againstwelfarereforms.wordpress.com
    Stop the War on the Poor

  21. Carol 21
    17 September 2012 at 6:31 pm

    Reply to David H, from My 2 Cents thread:

    http://thestandard.org.nz/my-2-cents/comment-page-1/#comment-522476

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10834436

    Phil O’Reilly seems to care about poverty, and he explains his POV well. But there seems to me to be too much focus on treating the systems, and not really acknowledging the underlying causes – i.e ones based in extensive inequalities.

    • David H 21.1
      17 September 2012 at 9:49 pm

      Carol, But like a hospital, you first have to treat the symptoms before you try to cure the whole body. Sorry getting tired, probably a bad analogy. Have to be up early for the pride of my life, that’s him watching you. Lol

    • Carol 22.1
      17 September 2012 at 7:45 pm

      Yes, that’s a very good one-liner. Just saw it on my twitter feed a little while ago. Must be doing the rounds.

  23. Jokerman 23
    17 September 2012 at 8:01 pm

    RT television regularly feature the occupy movement

    TS is really engaging to read at present: build a road and the people will come

    Tuhoe are raised up to be Leaders imo and experience

    that ol’ Republican propaganda machine FOX are really spinning the outrage at the blasphemous video

    Yes. Let us Hope that the ‘Day of The Troll’ is coming to a close, for they only harm themselves as the Skynet closes in.(Despite all their Rage, they are still just Rats in a cage)

    Manufacturing is certainly receiving a hammering: How’s those Free Trade Agreements working out for them, Aye?

    Rage Against The Machine

    Look forward to seeing Articles posted from Carol; MSM can eat the blogosphere’s Dust

  24. Paul 24
    17 September 2012 at 8:26 pm

    Campbell Live ran 2 strong stories today:
    1) about a school in Christchurch threatened with closure and the community’s fight back.
    2) about lunches at decile 1 and 10 schools and its pointer to child poverty.
    Did anyone else see them? Seemed to me like some good old fashioned journalism.
    What did you think?

    • Jokerman 24.1
      17 September 2012 at 9:15 pm

      Campbell Live has been consistently turning the gaze upon the social inequalities continuously arising in Aotearoa as a consequence of ideological, balls to the wall, head in the sand adherence to Neo-Liberal Free Market Capitalism.
      (although, even ol’ Joycie looked a little unsettled when interviewed by Rachel concerning the hammering manufacturing is in for.)Will, we see Devaluation this electoral term?

      Childhood Poverty Is National Poverty

  25. Penny Bright 25
    17 September 2012 at 8:45 pm

    IS AUCKLAND COUNCIL CEO DOUG MCKAY ‘FIT FOR DUTY’?

    In my considered opinion NO – and I told him so – to his face on 22 August 2012:

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151226862514524&set=a.10150142285564524.342080.649079523&type=1&theater

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10834472

    http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/SiteCollectionDocuments/aboutcouncil/committees/ceoreviewsubcommittee/meetings/chiefexecutivereviewsubcommitmin20120822.pdf

    5 Public Input
    5.1 Public Input –

    Ms Penny Bright was in attendance to address the CEO Review Subcommittee regarding maintaining systems to enable effective planning and accurate reporting of the financial and service performance of the local authority.

    Resolution number CEOR/2012/10

    MOVED by Mayor LCM Brown, seconded Cr CE Fletcher:
    That the Chief Executive Review Subcommittee:
    Agree that the Public input presentation be received.

    CARRIED

    Subject: OPEN LETTER: Request for speaking rights at Auckland Council CEO Review Subcommittee 22 August 2012, 10am Auckland Town Hall.

    17 August 2012

    REQUEST FOR SPEAKING RIGHTS AT THE CEO REVIEW SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING
    to be held on Wednesday 22 August 2012, 10am,
    Council Chambers, Auckland Town Hall, 301-305 Queen Street, Auckland

    SUBJECT MATTER:

    1) The failure of the Auckland Council CEO Doug McKay to meet his statutory duties under s.42 2(e) of the Local Government Act 2002 re:

    “maintaining systems to enable effective planning and accurate reporting of the financial and service performance of the local authority; ”

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0084/latest/DLM171859.html

    LGOIMA REPLY 21 November 2011 from Darryl Griffin (Manager for Democracy Services)

    “The Auckland Council Annual Report:

    1) Is the Auckland Council, in a truly ‘open,transparent and democratically-accountable’ way, going to ensure that citizens and ratepayers of the Auckland region are going to be given the ‘devilish’ detail, so we can see exactly where out rate monies are being spent on private sector consultants and contractors?

    a) Are the names of the consultants/contractors; the scope,term and value of these contracts going to be published in the Auckland Council Annual Report so that they’re available for public scrutiny?

    b) If not – why not?

    Not at this stage. There are 5,000 contracts related to 12,500 suppliers.
    To collate and publish these would be a major exercise logistically and cost-wise. ”
    ____________________________________________________________

    2) The alleged ‘conflict of interest’ of CEO Doug McKay in being a member of the unelected private lobby group – the Committee for Auckland, in his capacity as CEO of Auckland Council.

    IE: Is the CEO of Auckland Council primarily working in the interests of the public majority of citizens and ratepayers or a private minority of big business /corporate interests?
    http://www.committeeforauckland.co.nz/membership/member-organisations

    Doug McKay Chief Executive Officer Auckland Council http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz

    (Is this the reason why Auckland Council rates keep going up?

    Because the primary reason for the establishment of the Auckland SUPERCITY was to ensure bigger contracts – for (fewer) but bigger private contractors, an unknown number of which have been awarded to member companies of the Committee for Auckland?)

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    http://www.stopthesupercity.org.nz

  26. millsy 26
    17 September 2012 at 10:32 pm

    Market rents for those in NZDF housing. Yes, you heard it right. Those who serve are about to be hit with something really nasty by the Nats.

    All those thinking of joining the forces need to realise that there will be NO increased standard of living and NO job security.

  27. millsy 27
    17 September 2012 at 10:49 pm

    Posters on here will know that I pretty much am not keen on outsourcing. However, given the fact that local and central government have purged anything to do with engineering, work and services and the like, given the choice bettween spending millions building up that expertise (and risking the backlash from assorted rednecks) and souring it from the private sector, then there is no choice.

    But when the contract for running one of the most popular summer festivals in NP, the Festival of Lights, our council chooses to ditch the local company that runs it, which is full of experienced electricians and technicians who have learnt their trade at the old NPCC electricity department before it became NP Energy/Taranaki Energy/Powerco, and instead go for a more expensive tender from a company that appears to be run by people who have done polytech courses in theatre lighting, you really gotta just throw your hands up in dispear.

    • insider 27.1
      18 September 2012 at 9:36 am

      I have the same reaction when people push for investment in rail over road, or for Hillside to design
      and build trains.

      • millsy 27.1.1
        18 September 2012 at 10:28 am

        So, you are an anti rail redneck then.

        Can you please provide a detailed explanation why you want the whole rail network closed down and ripped up?

        • insider 27.1.1.1
          18 September 2012 at 11:40 am

          Sure, if you first explain why you hate all polytechnic students and want them murdered in their beds

  28. xtasy 28
    18 September 2012 at 2:50 am

    AND here IT is, Paula Bennett’s NASTY Masterpiece of proposed legislation, being the “final chapter” of the National Party’s welfare reform package:

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2012/0067/latest/DLM4542304.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation%40deemedreg_Social+Security+%28Benefit+Categories+and+Work+Focus%29+Amendment+Bill_resel_25_h&p=1

    Following the UK example, indeed, now new legal provisions are proposed and expected to become law, that will enable WINZ and MSD to outsource services for medical and work capacity assessments, for training and job-referrals. Also will the disability allowance be tied to providers delivering specified services.

    The sickness benefit will be abolished, and sick and disabled not meeting the living support category will have to join other “job seekers”, get work tested, will have to ready themselves to do at least part time work and also have to meet strict other criterias and requirements. Many sole parents whose youngest child is over 14 will also have to work, and only invalid’s beneficiaries will (largely) be exempted as living support recipients from the requirement to work.

    Yet there will be more checks, stricter criterias and apparently separate assessments besides of purely medical based ones. So it will be work, work, work and more work, whether there are any jobs or not.

    Get ready to join the pickets, marches and protests, which will need to be held all over NZ in the coming weeks and months. This is a nasty piece of legislation and a vicious attack on the poor, sick and disabled.

    • mike e 28.1
      18 September 2012 at 10:36 am

      BeneBashers goal of getting 10,000 off benefits a year is pure pie in the sky when after 4 years in power the National party has lost 60,000 jobs that means they are going to have to turn around a 100, 000 deficit in jobs.
      60,000 more on the unemployment benefit,30,000 on the DPB.Thousands more on other benefits .
      Rapidly increasing numbers on the pension (National does nothing)
      Where is the plan to get 100,000 more jobs not including those leaving to Australia.
      More Porkies from Porkies party!
      New Policy Reprint all bureaucracies letter head change name of Dept .
      Then Change benefit names that will help to no end!