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Open mike 17/10/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:35 am, October 17th, 2014 - 195 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

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Step up to the mike …

195 comments on “Open mike 17/10/2014”

  1. Draco T Bastard 1

    WikiLeaks Publishes TPP Intellectual Property Chapter

    “The leak shows our government demanding rules that would lead to preventable suffering and death in Pacific Rim countries, while eliminating opportunities to ease financial hardship on American families and our health programs at home,” said Peter Maybarduk, director of Public Citizen’s Global Access to Medicines Program.

    Prolonging suffering just so a few people can be richer.

    • Rawmadness Natshark 1.1

      I had a quick read Draco, I have to say, and I am a legal layman but it seemed there were clauses in their that allowed any country to protect it’s health and citizens concerning medications, as a get out clause to allow meds, IDNK but reading the pdf it looked like a load of complicated clauses that could employ some hard up legal beagles struggling to survive on a low income many years of high earnings in the name of clarifying a paragraph or ten.

      Why do they make this crap so flaming unintelligible. I mean seriously heard of English?

      Everything is copyrighted, unless it’s a life or death matter. Pretty simple stuff really.

      They should get me to do it. I’d be freaking brilliant.

      • Colonial Rawshark 1.1.1

        Remember, none of this is written up for the sake of clarity or ‘free markets.’ It is there to generate a lot of grey areas for corporations to move in, and to obscure any possibility of moral or ethical discussions under a tonne of technicalities.

        • Tracey 1.1.1.1

          plus one…

        • blue leopard 1.1.1.2

          Just take a look at the language: ‘Free trade’ or ‘Free Markets’

          Trade is something that involves exchange and, in this day and age, involves money. i.e there is nothing ‘free’ about trade.

          The use of the word ‘free’ is a contradictory term. It is contradictory to the nature of the subject, and this contradiction indicates propaganda is involved i.e. manipulation of people’s attitudes on the subject is present.

          • Colonial Rawshark 1.1.1.2.1

            Plus, why would a free trade agreement require anything more than a few A4 sheets of paper? I agree that you can sell your stuff in my country and vice versa. What requires thousands of pages of documents?

            Not even a pretence of true free trade, actually.

            • blue leopard 1.1.1.2.1.1

              Arranging a free-for-all for those who already have plenty, involves complexity due to having to work out how to by-pass any sound and principled protections built into a given country’s laws, is my guess. 🙂

              • Colonial Rawshark

                That and making sure that the power elite in each country are treated fairly and equitably by the power elite in other countries. For ordinary people – sorry.

          • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 1.1.1.2.2

            just like the word “aspiration” being manipulated by RWNJs

        • SHG 1.1.1.3

          Go on, say “big pharma”. You know you want to. You antivaxxers can’t resist it.

          • phillip ure 1.1.1.3.1

            is that another of those ‘labels’..that isn’t really true..?

            ..what wd u prefer in its’ place..?

            ..how about ‘blood-sucking-vampires’..?

  2. Rawmadness Natshark 2

    We won a seat at the UN, Is that good or bad? IDNK, however I expect we will create more deaths under John Key than ever before. What will our contribution be? To side with the USA as puppies of Obama or to stand tall and make the right calls independent of other countries interests time will tell I suppose.

    But if Key starts chasing and killing for oil, Keys days will be numbered, I and the rest of the country will be kicking him to the kerb if we are grouped responsible for innocent deaths in the name of oil flow by a psychopathic liar.

    Be aware Key, be very fucking aware.

    PS…. 2017, if you don’t vote National we will lose the UN seat, wait for it folks wait for the media bias.

    • boldsirbrian 2.1

      It’s a two year term

    • miravox 2.2

      Yay we won but colour me cynical.

      A good reason to check out The Herald every now and then … Dita De Boni on NZ’s independence.

      • Manuka - Ancient Order of Rawsharks 2.2.1

        Dita is right on the mark, on all points.

        The bitter irony, NZ is being sold on what we used to be (fairness, egalitarianism, a fair go) before the same people now selling it off began destroying those very qualities. Similarly for our Independence.

      • Paul 2.2.2

        Dita de Boni
        A rare independent voice

  3. boldsirbrian 3

    .
    Stuff: Little noses ahead (by Vernon Small)
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10627075/Little-noses-ahead-in-Labour-race

    What a load of rubbish. Vernon may very well be right. He has at least 25% chance of that. And Little is indeed a popular candidate.

    But lets face it, this is just another example of lazy journalism. And we should pull the media up on these lazy stories, even if Little happens to be the candidate you are supporting. (Next time, there is as much chance that their lazy idle speculations will pick somebody you don’t support).

    I want to see the evidence for Small’s assertions. It’s not written as an opinion: eg “I think Little has the greatest chance of winning” It’s stated that “Little noses ahead” Oh really? How exactly was this measured? By how many percentage points Vernon?

    When you read Small’s article, I have a strong suspicion that Small has simply fished comments from the Standard. It’s a compliment to the Standard if that is true, but still not a process that I support, unless the source for what he says is specified.

    Otherwise I could suggest, with the same level of accuracy: “Vernon Small produces worst political report for 17 October by 7.85%”

    • Paul 3.1

      Journalism is dead in the MSM in this country.

      • wekarawshark 3.1.1

        Some journos are getting it right.

        • Colonial Rawshark 3.1.1.1

          We have to remember that most journos don’t want to suicide their careers, and also that it is the editors and subs who come up with the actual headlines etc.

          • blue leopard 3.1.1.1.1

            Yes, and this leads back to the issue over government policies that create joblessness. It makes people much more compliant when they know they will have difficulty replacing their job.

            I really do view wealth disparity and joblessness as the biggest issues that need addressing – nothing else is able to change, or function heathily, until there is less concentration of power.

            • Colonial Rawshark 3.1.1.1.1.1

              And this is the nub, isn’t it. Why would people who have the power and leverage today, allow that power to be distributed? They wouldn’t, of course. If anything, they want it further concentrated, into fewer and fewer hands: theirs.

              This also speaks directly to issues of underemployment and low pay. Encouraging masses of working class and under class to be more engaged in society, and giving them adequate financial resources to do it with, goes right against the principle of concentrating power.

              • blue leopard

                +1 I don’t suppose you saw that program on Prime about British Manor Houses last night?

                It was rather a surprise because it didn’t solely focus on mansions, it went through a quick history of the state of Britain leading up to World War I, and, oh boy, were there very pointed comments about the effects of concentration of wealth.

                Was a very good program. Well worth the watch.

                • Colonial Rawshark

                  Ahhh missed that one will have to keep an eye out for it.

                  • blue leopard

                    I don’t even know if it is a series or not (tend to randomly switch on & watch stuff)- it was on after ‘Downton Abbey’

                    One thing I didn’t know was that the British Parliament, when trying to bring in policies to address the serious wealth disparity, kept being blocked by the House of Lords and that the King/Queen of the time ended up allowing them to be by-passed.

                    It is so interesting that those in privilege will actively block others’ from even semi-decent improvement in their conditions.

                    I view this is what is happening in NZ. There are many people that are comfortable and they are refusing to allow even small gains for those who are not comfortable.

                    I am so ashamed and disgusted by my fellow NZers at the moment.

                    One could even go so far as saying ‘I’m sorry for being a New Zealander’. 😉

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      Haha you so crack me up 😀

                    • blue leopard

                      🙂

                    • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark

                      I view this is what is happening in NZ. There are many people that are comfortable and they are refusing to allow even small gains for those who are not comfortable.

                      I am so ashamed and disgusted by my fellow NZers at the moment.

                      if many more people got to own houses, what will happen to my rental property portfolio! no!!! i worked hard and i take responsibility for my hard earned wealth. those other people should take responsibility for their miserable state.

                    • blue leopard

                      +1 Kiwiri Exactly [& yuck!]

                • @ melancholy large-cat..

                  i thought it was a ripper of a doco..

                  ..one of those ones where you walk away with a more nuanced/complete view..the mark of a good doco..

                  ..it told you more than multi-boxed sets of that soap that preceeded it ever could..

                  ..and wasn’t that soap so fucken boring..?

                  ..i reached the stage where i welcomed the fire..

                  ..hoping it wd burn the whole turgid mess to the ground..

                  ..alas..no..

    • Manuka - Ancient Order of Rawsharks 3.2

      At least Vernon signed it. Puts him streets ahead of the “anonymous editorial” crowd.

      He includes this comment/ quote:
      Parker said it would be a competitive race. ‘‘You can’t have a competition without competition, but that’s not to say that it has to be war without guns.’’

    • Tracey 3.3

      no one can possibly know who is ahead, except if they have polled caucus, and then they can ONLY claim to know how caucus will go.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      Oh great, NZers to become even worse off as international money flows even faster into NZ.

      • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 4.1.1

        Conversely, the threat of capital flight gets strengthened in the face of any policy being proposed that does not privilege the speculators and super rich.

    • miravox 4.2

      Also open season on state housing

      Finance Minister Bill English signals an open market for the country’s 68,000 Housing New Zealand properties.

      “We can sell to anybody,” Mr English said in an interview with Herald staff yesterday.

      Buyers would not have to be non-profit entities, and he said he had already had talks with consortiums involving major iwi and banks.

      Probably not as bad as this lot …no?

      • Manuka - Ancient Order of Rawsharks 4.2.1

        “We can sell to anybody,” Mr English said

        It’s what they do best.
        Not “Working for NZ”. Rather, “Selling Out NZ” !

      • wyndham 4.2.2

        Are State houses not classified as assets?

        Prior to the election Key categorically stated that there would be ‘no more asset sales’ in his third term.

        Just another untruth ?

      • Colonial Rawshark 4.2.3

        Note that in the US, investment banks and billion dollar hedge funds have already become slum lords, buying up masses of distressed and abandoned properties, turning themselves into a corporate landlord class.

  4. les 5

    Well Joseph Parkers boxing career has limitations .That is quite clear after his points decision against a short,old journeyman.Hate to see him against a real international pro.

  5. David H 6

    And the scaremongering begins….

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11343734

    Now did NZ get the seat for being good a good little puppy, By just sitting there and getting it’s head patted by it’s master?

    • Draco T Bastard 6.1

      Oh, FFS, now ISIS has chemical weapons left over from Iraq that the US conveniently forgot to remove after not finding any?

      • blue leopard 6.1.1

        +1 DTB The lunatics have well and truly taken over the asylum.

        • Colonial Rawshark 6.1.1.1

          We should definitely head into Iraq again with the USA, this time they’ve got the Iraq plan properly sorted out. Rly.

          (Unfortunately I think we’re going to be on the Security Council pushing a purely US agenda…I see McCully is already pushing for “reform” of the security council)

          • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 6.1.1.1.1

            I see McCully is already pushing for “reform” of the security council

            When I see McCully saying “reform”, we know that his idea of reform would be directly in contrast to ours and that the interests he would further would be quite opposite to what we would consider.

          • blue leopard 6.1.1.1.2

            Reform has been a real problem for the UN for years.

            The reform issue is a compounded problem because resolution has been stymied for decades

            The initial problem was that the UN was not reflecting the changing world; neither the increasing diversity (due to increased membership) nor the changing powers. i.e it was set up when Russia and the US were the main powers, China is on the main body now, but places like India, Brazil or Japan are not. (Also places like Africa & Muslim countries?

            The reforms require a profoundly thoughtful, principled and wide perspective and also an ability for those that are currently on the Security Council to be inclusive i.e. release their grip and share their power with the new powers.

            I am not holding my breath that the type of intelligence that is required for resolution, will be provided by NZ’s actors because our government continually display a lapdog type attitude toward the US and show a distinct tendency to be sellouts.

            In short, they are acting like mindless lunatics in their own country, so why should they be any different on the world stage. All that will be achieved is they will disgrace NZ on the world stage even more than they have already done.

            I sincerely hope I am incorrect over this.

            • AmaKiwi 6.1.1.1.2.1

              @ blue leopard

              “Reform has been a real problem for the UN for years.”

              The UN was the pet project of an American aristocrat president (Roosevelt) built on land donated by what was at the time the wealthiest family in the world (Rockefeller).

              Its purpose was and always has been defensive: to protect and defend the interests of the wealthiest American imperialists. There will never be any “reforms” at the UN which do not serve their interests.

          • Ron 6.1.1.1.3

            Did I correctly hear today that we are so lucky to get Security Council position as it will help us when we have Trade talks. Isn’t that slightly obscene using Security Council post to talk trade?

      • greywarshark 6.1.2

        DTB
        Duh??

    • SHG 6.2

      Well Grant Robertson says this is a great thing, and we all know Grant Robertson wouldn’t lie.

  6. ianmac 7

    Not really connected to intensive dairy farming contamination of water supplies but????
    “He said investigating the outbreak was complex – the yersinia pathogen could spread from animal waste into water supplies, then into a vegetable growing area.”
    I wonder where the quarantined paddock is in relation to water source?

  7. Flogging off our state housing stock, falling dollar making our houses and land even more of a bargain for overseas speculators, cynically gaming the OIA, etc etc, t’would be enough to make one quite worried were it not for the prospect of a BRIGHT SHINEY NEW FLAG!!!!

  8. BM 9

    Looks like Cunnliffe’s calling it a day.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11343759

    I’d say he’ll be gone sooner than later, if the right job emerges.
    You get the feeling his heart really isn’t in it anymore, which isn’t really surprising.

    • wekarawshark 9.1

      “I’d say he’ll be gone sooner than later, if the right job emerges.
      You get the feeling his heart really isn’t in it anymore, which isn’t really surprising.”

      You get the feeling you just made shit up. There’s nothing in that article to support what you just said.

      • Skinny 9.1.1

        The odds of Parker leaving before DC would be far greater. I just heard Mike Williams labeling DP as his pick as the winner in the leadership contest. A certain kiss of death. Parker will be extremely lucky if he gets 3rd, even that looks remote from what I’m observing.  

        • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 9.1.1.1

          Well, this time, if someone like Parker ends up getting set up like Shearer, let’s hope Cunliffe doesn’t get scapegoated again.

          • Skinny 9.1.1.1.1

            The only setting up done to Parker is self inflicted. He is setting himself up to fail miserably and is totally delusional calling for a referendum on the raising of the retirement age. This guy is going to self distruct something shocking at the end of the hustings I kid you not.

      • Tracey 9.1.2

        bm doesnt actually read the links he posts. it happened only last week when he posted something to do with hager and then asked a question answered in his link. i think he is one of the unpaid tr**olls

        • wekarawshark 9.1.2.1

          or lowly paid 😉 (hence his sloppiness).

          • Colonial Rawshark 9.1.2.1.1

            Asked about former Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s comment that failed leaders should leave politics, Mr Cunliffe said if people were calling for that from him “perhaps they ought to do that in order of succession … there are two others ahead of me”.

            Nice sharp retort. This is why Labour members are going to miss Cunliffe at the helm.

            • Tracey 9.1.2.1.1.1

              clever…. needed more of that during the debates…

              that is a keyesque retort, after 24 hours of practice

            • Skinny 9.1.2.1.1.2

              +1 listening to Robertson on Jackson’s show now. May call him to raise the deadwood issue. Skirting the issue and saying the new blood comes thru raising the party vote is true. However getting back to reality of today Grant ‘the party vote dropped.’ What we want to hear is there will be a clean out, no if no buts Grant.

              • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark

                Going by the poor attempt in his electorate and his party vote, the new blood coming through is more likely green.

                • Skinny

                  My point is he won’t speak out because his support base within caucus is ‘mostly’ deadwood, therefore his campaign is not in the interest of the party but him self. If he believes running with Ardern is the answer it is not. She will roll him and the division continues pretty much spelling the demise of the party as being able to be relevant.

                  • Colonial Rawshark

                    Skirting the issue and saying the new blood comes thru raising the party vote is true.

                    Not true in terms of clearing out the deadwood though, esp if the deadwood holds on to the higher list positions or hold on to safe electorate seats.

    • mickysavage 9.2

      The Herald sure know how to spin stuff. The printed version has this headline on the front page:

      “Cunliffe: I’ll never stand again”

      Then the article contains this:

      “While he intended to stay in Parliament this term, he was (sic) yet to decide whether to stand again in 2017.”

      Yet to decide =/= never stand again.

      So the headline is clearly wrong. It seems the MSM’s levels of comprehension leave a great deal to be desired.

      There is nothing wrong with Cunliffe reviewing things. I would expect all MPs to review their position and decide if they are bringing something to politics and if not then they should consider alternative career options.

      • alwyn 9.2.1

        I don’t have access to the printed version but the on-line version referenced does quote him directly as saying “I am not intending to run for the leadership again.”
        A headline really does have to be brief and the one you quote does seem to be accurate as far as the leadership goes, which is the primary news in the story.
        To give a headline which tells the full story would mean one that was as long as the full story.
        Would you really want a headline that said something like

        “Cunliffe: At his point in time my intention is that I’ll never stand for the leadership of the Labour Party again, although I will remain in Parliament as an MP until at least 2017 when I may, or may not, stand as an MP again, depending on what I think of my prospects of being able to get a reasonably senior role in the shadow cabinet and whether any other options might be available”

        That would be a reasonable summary of the story but a bit much to put in large type don’t you think?

        • SHG 9.2.1.1

          “at this point in time”, lol

          • alwyn 9.2.1.1.1

            Oh hell. It was meant to be “at THIS point”
            Although I guess that “HIS point in time” makes a certain amount of warped sense doesn’t it? DCs view of things always seemed a bit askew from most peoples.

      • karol 9.2.2

        That front page of today’s Herald is a shocker! Not the look of a newspaper to be taken seriously.

      • I thought it was quite clearly talking about Cunliffe’s intention to never stand for leader again.

        They have the quote in the article that he’ll never stand again for leader, the headline is “I’ll never stand again”.

        • Rodel 9.2.3.1

          MS
          In politics ‘never say never’. I suspect that David Cunliffe will be forced back again by popular demand probably after his successors make a mess of it and that he will eventually take over as Prime Minister from John Key.
          Anything’s possible.

  9. wekarawshark 10

    International fundraiser for Hager at $6,000 after a day.

    https://freedom.press/bundle/nicky-hager-legal-defense

    https://freedom.press/blog/2014/10/help-support-new-zealand-investigative-reporter-nicky-hagers-legal-defense-fund

    Then there is this (from second link),

    The Intercept reported today that for months before his house was raided, Hager had also been working with Glenn Greenwald and The Intercept, preparing to report stories based on the Snowden documents.

    Hager doesn’t know if this contributed to the decision to raid his house, but the fact that the raid happened so shortly afterwards is disturbing to say the least. According to Hager, the New Zealand government has been nervous about the publication of New Zealand-related Snowden revelations and has made various moves, publicly and privately, to prepare for their eventual publication.

    More on the raid, and Hager’s relationship with the Snowden crew – https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/10/16/nicky-hager-raid/

    • ianmac 10.1

      Great that those outside NZ can see the significance of the Hager raid. Even if the police find nothing about the “hacker”, the collateral damage to Nicky’s reputation and the loss of privacy over other research that he is doing, and the chilling effect on others who would wish to come forward in confidence, those are the worries.
      Of course there will be no direct link from politicians to police but given the reluctance of the police to act on other complaints, you would wonder if Mr Key’s government would have any motive to “get” Nicky and send a warning to others.

      • karol 10.1.1

        There’s a worrying angle that the police (under whose orders?) were also scooping up info about Hager’s work on the Snowden documents.

        • wekarawshark 10.1.1.1

          Yes, and even if that’s not true, that it’s a coincidence, the fact remains that many people have now lost confidence in the government because of Dirty Politics and how they handled it (Key’s casualness esp).

          edit, afaik the police don’t have the seized material. It got sealed and sent to the courts until the hearing to decide if the police can look at it. What I want to know now is if the police can use or share information not related to the warrant used to do the raid.

          • ianmac 10.1.1.1.1

            I think Nicky’s lawyer (Mr Price?) insisted that every item be sealed and labelled and receipted by the police. Good thinking pending the court challenge to the confiscation.
            Of course losing all your tools and resources for the foreseeable future must be a curse.

            • wekarawshark 10.1.1.1.1.1

              So if that’s true, and the police didn’t look at anything during the search, then it makes the theory that the govt is fishing less likely. But it doesn’t lessen the probability that the govt knew of his connections with the Snowden team and were monkey wrenching.

              • Manuka - Ancient Order of Rawsharks

                Gov monkey wrenching, yes.

                From that FirstLook link:
                the ability of New Zealand police officers to cavalierly raid the home of a reporter who has criticized the government in power threatens to establish a dangerous precedent everywhere reporters operate.

        • Manuka - Ancient Order of Rawsharks 10.1.1.2

          (under whose orders?)

          If we learned anything from the M.o.T. it is surely that the NZ gov provides an entry-point for the Spymaster powers that be. Glenn’s work would likely be so securely encrypted as to evade the usual metadata mop-ups on the net, which would necessitate a hands on approach to securing it, by those international surveillance chiefs. And, they took discs, documents, camera and “dozens of other items”. (Why anyone would believe for a millisecond that they were merely after “the hacker” – evades me.)

      • Manuka - Ancient Order of Rawsharks 10.1.2

        no direct link from politicians to police

        It is similar to the KDC raid. Our overlords, the international spymasters, have long arms indeed. In a year of depressing news-events, this is one of the most sobering.

    • Tracey 10.2

      thanks for this weka

    • Tracey 10.3

      fbi is trying to stop new smartphones being encrypted

    • minarch 10.4

      Today, Thursday 16 October 2014, WikiLeaks released a second updated version of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) Intellectual Property Rights Chapter. The TPP is the world’s largest economic trade agreement that will, if it comes into force, encompass more than 40 per cent of the world’s GDP. The IP Chapter covers topics from pharmaceuticals, patent registrations and copyright issues to digital rights. Experts say it will affect freedom of information, civil liberties and access to medicines globally. The WikiLeaks release comes ahead of a Chief Negotiators’ meeting in Canberra on 19 October 2014, which is followed by what is meant to be a decisive Ministerial meeting in Sydney on 25–27 October.

      https://wikileaks.org/tpp-ip2/pressrelease/

  10. “..Afroman’s Positive ‘Because I Got High’ Remix Should Be The New Stoner Anthem..

    ..Rapper Afroman has joined the fight to legalize marijuana –

    – with a new iteration of the 2000 stoner anthem –

    – ‘Because I Got High’..”

    (cont..)

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/16/afroman-positive-because-i-got-high-remix_n_5995992.html

    • Skinny 11.1

      Phil was Mike Williams with you prior to going on the panel with Plunket this morning? I suspect he has been on the Bob Hope.

      • phillip ure 11.1.1

        i think williams is too much of a miserablist to be a pothead…

        ..he does not seem to be one – who has ever had much of a grip on fun…

        ..(he puts the ‘lug’ in ‘lugubrious..)

        ..and he picked parker..?

        ..hilarious..!

        ..i have an (obvious) suggestion for his campaign-song..?

        ..some ditty about something being handed over in a heavy manner..?

        ..and/but on a serious note..

        ..labour need to get its’ head around shit like this..eh..?

        “..Labour must redefine what it means to be modern – check Facebook for clues..

        …All game-changing governments have presented a new vision of modernity.

        The left should be ready..”

        (cont..)

        http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/16/labour-modern-facebook-governments

        now..i dunno how strong parker is on ‘visions of modernity’..eh..?

        ..but i don’t have a lot of faith..

        • Skinny 11.1.1.1

          I guess the last 6 years fronting the media every week defending Goff and then Shearer would have exhausted any sense of humour by the time Culiffe came and went. I can not see it returning being the butt of Robo’s jokes. With Mallard being mooted as assistant speaker of the house, perhaps he will get a few laughs when Mallard kicks Little out for dancing during readings.

  11. Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 13

    I don’t get this. Can someone explain to me the convoluted game involved?

    It was damning and utterly, completely and totally bad that, once upon a long time ago, Cunliffe had picked a deputy.

    But this weekend at his launch, Grant will have a “running mate”:

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/can-jacinda-ardern-become-labour-s-youngest-ever-deputy-leader-6109910

    ?

    • karol 13.1

      Because Robertson knows his chances of winning the leadership contest on his own is about zero. So he’s rolling out Ardern to stand beside him in the hope her presence will attract more votes for him.

      • Skinny 13.1.1

        With Adern he should win, remember this is still the 2 groups within caucus fighting for the leadership and shadow cabinet positions. The result will be very tight, however Grant does fancy he has the edge. More caucus votes and a reasonable amount of second votes from the Afiliates. The membership vote he will benefit from the popularity of Ardern.

        It effect the deadwood are sticking it to the membership by declaring their vote in advance. This makes a mockery of a leaders contest when one side is campaigning on 2 tickets. While Mahuta may want the deputy role, the DW can install Robertson, Parker, Adern or the likes of King, Goff, Shearer or who ever takes their fancy. Good for them the joke will be short lived. A licence for the membership to turn up with knives at conference.

        • Colonial Rawshark 13.1.1.1

          Two things
          1) Ardern is not particularly popular with the membership.
          2) Grant demonstrated that he couldn’t count last year, and he still can’t count.

          • AmaKiwi 13.1.1.1.1

            Interesting the media label Nanaia as a Cunliffe stand-in but never mention Robertson (and Jacinda) as part of the ABC gang, which they clearly are.

            • Colonial Rawshark 13.1.1.1.1.1

              According to Grant Robertson (speaking to Willy Jackson on Radio Live) there is no such thing as the ABC Club. Srsly.

        • phillip ure 13.1.1.2

          if the ‘deadwood’ win this one…

          ..they will set a new benchmark in winning-battle/losing-war..

          ..labour will slump to the high teens..(they are nearly there anyway..)

          ..and labour cd well enter the next election about equal with the greens..

          ..it is like watching a car-crash in slow-motion…

          ..the possible sidelining of a once great political party..

          .i repeat..just more of the same-old/same-old from labour..

          ..will guarantee not only defeat in 2017..

          ..but also the possible death-throes of labour itself..

          ..how neo-liberalism ate labour…

          • phillip ure 13.1.1.2.1

            also..i had a look back at the 2011 results for wellington central..

            ..the result was pretty much the same as this time..

            ..and my takeaway from that wd be how robertson must have put a lot of time/energy into fixing that obvious/glaring-problem between ’11 and ’14..

            ..and how well it worked…how successful he was at that task..eh..?

          • Skinny 13.1.1.2.2

            Their pretty much in death rattle mode. Myself and others are thinking of starting a party and would stand a better chance of getting over 5% than they do of winning in 2017.

            • phillip ure 13.1.1.2.2.1

              can i suggest social democrats as a name..

              ..then you have the definitions of social democracy in other countries..

              ..that will be easy to reference/inform the public what you are about..

              .it will be a branding shortcut..

              • Skinny

                Your correct with the name bang on actually however the old social credit party have that name covered. Social Democrats for Change I think they go by.

                CPA-Communities Protecting Animals.
                Designed to be a voice solely for animals. You can judge a society on how many pets are being mistreated, putdown etc. Trim up the Tory vote and sit on the cross benches. Something like that would be a go. Register the dog owner. Far too many Pitbull’s get the automatic death penalty if they end up at the SPCA, they won’t re house just put em down. There are enough humans that rightly don’t give a damn about politics but do about animals. So worth a crack. Of course any Bill that is going to impact on the welfare of poorer citizens pets gets rejected of course lol. There is a lawyers group that have formed to lobby and write legislation framework too. Hmm wonder is bent Bankie can be an advisor from jail?

                • b waghorn

                  If the leadership race goes the wrong way why don’t the true left labour people defect to the greens. . just a thought

                  • Chooky Shark Smile

                    many already have…and many will … for some it was Cunliffe as Leader or leave Labour and vote Green next time!..

                    …could explain the latest polls

                    • b waghorn

                      I was meaning standing members up and jump wakas in to a existing party rather than start agian

                • i was thinking about flying the idea of an animal welfare party..

                  ..(if the threshold dropped to 3%..but that ain’t gonna happen..)

                  ..and i was trying to keep it non-ideological in other ways..

                  ..but that cd be complicated..(as eventually questions like ‘who wd u support?’ come up..)

                  ..but i was thinking that campaigning/exposing the horrors out there as the main focus wd work most of the time..

                  ..and you still come back to that ‘who wd u support?’-question..

                  ..and no..i couldn’t see a way thru that..

                  ..other possible areas of dissension are the likes of me..vegan..

                  ..and fighting for those reasons..

                  ..and those who will care for some animals..

                  ..yet/but happily eat others…

                  ..it’s complicated..

                  ..and yeah..you have to give banks his dues for his work/support of animal welfare issues..

                  ..and of course all the dog-parks in ak are down to him..

                  ..which is more of a heritage than many pollies can claim..

                  • Skinny

                    Yes I think it is a go afterall if the God Botherers can pull 4% the chances are it would get across the line. The threshold should be lower but the elite will defend 5% tooth and nail. A animal welfare party has the advantage of willing cashed up donators, and the ability to have committees and candidates in probably every electorate in NZ canvassing the party vote.

                    • b waghorn

                      There buy splitting the left vote further . Key will love it

                    • no waghorn..

                      ..you just run a party vote..

                      ..and of course the actions of the vivisectors are just screaming out to be exposed/publicised…

                      ..(you wd probably get unanimity on that one..

                      ..a quarter of a million animals a year..tortured and killed..

                      ..it is a vile self-perpetuating industry of death..)

                    • b waghorn

                      Would the greens not all ready be anti vivisection. There is already enough wasted vote

                    • nah..!..the greens have animal-welfare up on that same dusty shelf in the corner as cannabis legalisation..

                      ..so far down their list of priorities..

                      ..to be not there at all..

                    • Skinny

                      Stand alone party and it would pull a cross section of votes but within out getting a polling survey done by some snake oil outfit like Hooton’s, I would say 60% of the centre upwards vote in reality. On the cross benches you have the ability to deal if it’s a tight margin. And of course cross party support on animal welfare is a populistic. Just look at the drug testing U turn that only Banks championed till the issue become main stream popular in an election year.

                    • i agree about the potency of the messages..

                      ..and as not using dogs to test legal highs show..

                      ..the capacity for wide revulsion at what is done in our name..

                      ..is there to be tapped..

                      ..(especially what the fucken vivisectors do..)

                      and i agree..swearing to stay on the cross-benches..and to vote issue by issue..

                      …wd be the best way to go..

                      ..were that to come about..

  12. Grant Robertson is in Willie Jackson’s show on Radio Live.
    He says there is no such thing as an ABC faction.
    I turned off the radio in case he stated discussing the moon landing and Chem Trails.

    • wekarawshark 14.1

      lol. Ok, there’s not such thing as neoliberalism either. Or Deadwood. Or Rogernomes. It’s bad to call people names based on their actions.

      (am I the only one whose mind keeps flicking to Swearengen, Bullock and co? Not that the Labour caucus is in that league)

    • ianmac 14.2

      Every time I ask for evidence of this ABC group I have yet to receive a credible answer. It may just be a figment of Whaleoil mischief making.

      • blue leopard 14.2.1

        I was wondering about that, too, Ianmac, until I discovered this article which, among other things, contained the following:

        A concerted smear campaign orchestrated by senior MPs Mr Goff, Annette King, Trevor Mallard and Clayton Cosgrove – known as the ABC (Anyone But Cunliffe) faction – ensured that relatively inexperienced Mt Albert MP David Shearer was elevated to the leadership.
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9164503/Loved-and-loathed-the-polarising-politician

        Perhaps Labour need to get more litigious toward the media, (or at least make public statements about errors of fact), because as far as I know, there have been substantially more public complaints from Labour MPs about what is discussed here on The Standard than what Vance wrote in her article.

      • Colonial Rawshark 14.2.2

        ianmac: the evidence of the ABC group is there for all to see, including Shearer’s recent orchestrated media campaign (5-6 separate media appearances/interviews) putting the knife between departing Leader David Cunliffe’s shoulder blades.

        Shearer didn’t confidently step up and organise all this just on his lonesome, he was part of a group of MPs.

        • Skinny 14.2.2.1

          The interim leader calls these left blogs venomous with their nasty attacks. I assume she is referring to us lol.

          • Colonial Rawshark 14.2.2.1.1

            When lies are preferred and truth considered poison, we know that the body politic must be cleaned out and renewed.

          • blue leopard 14.2.2.1.2

            The Labour MPs have had more criticism of The Standard/Left wing blogs than they have of the volumes of bullshit the msm spun all year about Labour.

            There is something very wrong with this equation.

            • Colonial Rawshark 14.2.2.1.2.1

              Remember, they know that National supporters are not the real threat. But an active, outspoken and articulate left wing membership is.

              • blue leopard

                An active, outspoken and articulate left wing membership is a real threat to right wing corporate policies, and not a threat to left wing principles or sound democracy, at all – in fact the above qualities strengthen left wing principles & democracy – so I can only conclude that the MPs in Labour and others, that are criticising the left wing blogs, have an agenda that is incompatible with left wing and democratic principles.

                #JustThortI’dSpellitOut

            • lprent 14.2.2.1.2.2

              Less ability to backscratch with leaks?

              • blue leopard

                I’m beginning to be of the opinion that half of the bullshit the media spouted about Labour came from inside Labour.

                Please, someone, give me some information that helps me rid myself of that awful opinion! 🙁

                • ianmac

                  blue leopard, I suspect that half the bullshit about Labour and the supposed ABC lot came from the Right and created and fueled by Whaleoil. Certain journalist kept on repeating it but without anything better than “Party Insiders tell me” stuff. Where-ever it was sourced it did a great job of creating a massive loss of confidence in the Party.

                  Wonder if a Labour Review would test the existence of the ABCs?

                  • Colonial Rawshark

                    You’re still looking for objective, empirical evidence when there is none. Your gut instinct will give you the answer required.

        • Anne 14.2.2.2

          I hope Olwyn doesn’t mind, but I think her comment on yesterdays ‘Open Mike’ is appropriate for this discussion. I still don’t know how to link to a comment so here is a cut and paste:

          16 October 2014 at 8:30 pm
          Today on the bus, I think I suddenly grasped the perspective of Labour’s right wingers. I was thinking about Shearer’s recent claim that the LP had been hijacked. Then I remembered Puddleglum quoting Shane Jones as saying, ““I’ve never said this on the record, but I was deeply influenced in a positive way by the figures of the Lange Government. I didn’t do my due diligence to discover how much the Labour Party had changed.”

          http://www.thepoliticalscientist.org/drawing-the-poison/#more-1772

          It seems to me that these people think that the neo-liberal, globalist faction wrested the LP off the old fashioned, unenlightened socialists and that it is now theirs: that the Clark years were merely a transition, allowing people a period of acclimatisation to the new system. Where I see a need to “get the party back” they see the threat of counter-revolution. If I am right then it is very unfortunate that they hold this view at a time when the people who think they are Labour’s constituency desperately need allies in the public sphere.

          (my bold).

          In my response I gave her a relatively recent personal example which I believe bears out the point she is making.

          When certain members of the caucus claim there is no ABC club then they are officially correct. There was/is no club of people called the “ABC Club” in Labour. But in practical terms it exists as a group of people consisting of Labour parliamentarians – and a coterie of supporters outside of parliament – who think pretty much as Olwyn has described in the section which I have highlighted.

          • greywarshark 14.2.2.2.1

            @ Anne
            Linking to and placing comment address. Try this – you call up the actual comment, you go to the writer’s name and date in blue and click on that so it shows up in the address line at the top of the screen.

            Point and right click on that address and choose select, then point and right click again and press copy, transfer to where you want to place link.

            That’s the dummies way (mine) but works. You might select this and copy and put it in your notes for when you need it.

            • Anne 14.2.2.2.1.1

              Got it. I was clicking on to name and address and then trying to copy and paste. 🙁

              Thanks greywarshark.

    • Saarbo 14.3

      Yes, I just read the email through from Grant Robertson to labour members and it is similar. On the e-mail Robertson highlights that he will “listen to all New Zealanders”, well I suggest for starters he listen to New Zealanders talking about the out of control rabble who are the labour Party caucus. He along with the other contenders need to be clear how they are going to deal with the caucus issue…for him to deny there is an ABC faction: unbelievable.

    • Colonial Rawshark 14.4

      He says there is no such thing as an ABC faction.

      BD, what was his actual wording, if you can remember?

  13. (need a laff..?..)

    “..Guy Meets Bird – Bird Drops F-Bomb..

    ..This guy was sitting on a bench when a bird –

    – described as a black crow –

    – apparently decided to stop by and say –

    – “hey” ‘fuck you’..”

    (cont..)

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/16/bird-says-fuck-you_n_5998446.html

  14. thechangeling 16

    The latest Roy Morgan puts the Greens and Labour only 5 points apart:

    September 29-October 12, 2014 Nat43.5 Lab22.5 Green17.5 NZF7 Maori2 Act0.5 UNF0.5 Con5 Mana1 Int^ Other0.5

    • Saarbo 16.1

      Im surprised: That Labour actually got over 20%.

      • wekarawshark 16.1.1

        I doubt the GP is really that high.

        • GregJ 16.1.1.1

          Yes it probably isn’t (yet) – but psychologically if the Greens ever overtake Labour in an opinion poll then Labour really will be in trouble.

          Once that barrier is breached people will begin to see the Greens not just as a “protest vote” (leaving aside the core Green vote which seems to be sitting at 10%) – it will then start to genuinely attract even more of the left. The next hammering blow would probably if the Unions start to de-affiliate (does such a word exist?). A killing blow would be if any Unions affiliate with the Greens.

          It may take some time – but the risk is there.

    • thechangeling 16.2

      But Lab+Green= 40% Almost a Govt but the Conservative nutters have a rather healthy looking 5%.

      • Ad 16.2.1

        Labour have got a long way before they hit bottom. A smart Green Party would presume to assume the mantle “leader of the Opposition”.

        The NZ public will continue to punish Labour’s apparent disunity – neither the broader public, nor the media, nor the caucus have the maturity to deal with primary runoffs. And there will be more of them before 2020.

        The post-leadership vote caucus will know that anyone who wins will struggle to displace those fault lines of loyalty displayed in the leadership vote. There is no real secrecy to the vote. The factions, I believe, are permanent. This unintended consequence of the constitutional reforms will keep Labour in the 20’s.

        • Colonial Rawshark 16.2.1.1

          It’s the trajectory of the NZ Liberal Party. The Labour Party risks ongoing decline and eventual split up.

        • les 16.2.1.2

          on the money..no one will take any notice..unfortunately.

    • Skinny 16.3

      Appears the leader wasn’t the problem with the slight drop.

    • Paul 17.1

      Disruption: A Call To Act On Climate Change

      “When it comes to climate change, why do we do so little when we know so much?’

      Through a relentless investigation to find the answer, Disruption takes an unflinching look at the devastating consequences of our inaction.

      The exploration lays bare the terrifying science, the shattered political process, the unrelenting industry special interests and the civic stasis that have brought us to this social, moral and ecological crossroads.The film also takes us behind-the-scenes of the efforts to organize the largest climate rally in the history of the planet during the UN world climate summit.

      This is the story of our unique moment in history. We are living through an age of tipping points and rapid social and planetary change. We’re the first generation to feel the impacts of climate disruption, and the last generation that can do something about it. The film enlarges the issue beyond climate impacts and makes a compelling call for bold action that is strong enough to tip the balance to build a clean energy future.”

  15. wekarawshark 18

    Andrew Little’s AMA on NBR. I’ve got mixed feelings about him. Like DC, he won’t talk about welfare, but leaves us to read between the lines. Unfortunately they could be read either way.

    some good questions asked.

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/ask-andrew-little#comment-673014

    • that is because he has absolutely no plans to do anything at all for the poorest..

      ..that is why he/they won’t talk about it..

      ..and of course cunliffe confirmed this..with his refusal to answer poverty-questions..

      ..and then coming out with a policy to raise benefits by inflation-rates..(!)..(that’d be parker..again..eh..?..)

      ..and that was it..

      ..and that was why he wd not answer those poverty-questions..

      ..it is not much of a leap to surmise the same about little..

      ..about all of them really..

      ..(except mahuta..maybe..but she has no show..)

      ..labour 2017 will be offering what labour 2014 did..(probably less..)

      ..and that means for the poorest..s.f.a…

      ..it is just incrementalist shades of difference in neo-lib labour..

      ..some not quite as bad as others..

      ..but no real fucken difference..in real terms..

      ..which is why i have no skin in the game..

      ..i couldn’t really give a fuck who wins..

      ..because whoever wins..nothing will change…

    • greywarshark 18.2

      Wekarawshark 5.56
      If welfare is a dirty word, what hope for those relying on the left to return to a
      reciprocal, interactive community-type of society?

      I won’t find out what he says because a subscription is required and the NBR – National Business Review minimum for an individual is $130 for 6 months.

      • wekarawshark 18.2.1

        Damn, didn’t realise that they would paywall that, should have taken a cut and paste 🙁

        • greywarshark 18.2.1.1

          @ wekawarshark
          I’ve been hearing about these paywalls and hadn’t run into one just when I wanted to read about something. Ouch. It doesn’t do much for me, I wouldn’t get my moneysworth out of it and anyway I like to keep my money for the big bills I need to pay. NBR is a nice to have.

          I find that there are so many requests for money from genuine organisations doing genuinely good things that I have to think twice about extra spending.

          • wekarawshark 18.2.1.1.1

            I’ll try and remember that they put the page up for free for a time (24hrs? Just that business day?). There’s a few here with NBR subs, but most won’t.

            Crazy price.

  16. Ad 19

    People here keen to go to Robertson’s campaign launch – if they are in Auckland?

  17. les 20

    well no ones interested in boxing here then!Obviously this site is infected with pacifists,lesbians and wimps that have no time for the merits of manly pugilistic endeavour.They don’t know,dont care,-how far removed from the noble kiwi ideals of rugby,racing and beer has this pale imitation of kiwi heritage called the Labour Party travelled?;)

  18. Not a PS Shark Sashimi 21

    Revealed: The woman who triggered Shearer’s downfall
    Friday Aug 23, 2013 by Claire Trevett, the New Zealand Herald’s deputy political editor

    I’m putting this up given the recent statements/melt down by David Shearer in which he accused David Cunliffe of the GFC, the bombing of Hiroshima and the high price of coffee.

    “But the Herald has learned MP Maryan Street was preparing a motion of no confidence in Mr Shearer for Tuesday’s meeting.
    Plans were also being made to send a delegation to him before that to ask him to stand down rather than force the confidence vote.
    The MPs involved were certain the motion would have succeeded if it had been required.
    Ms Street would not comment yesterday, but it is understood she decided to front the motion because of growing concerns among MPs over Mr Shearer’s inability to fire as leader and his poor poll ratings.
    A source said there had been discussions for months, but nobody was willing to force the issue until Ms Street stepped up.”

    Read the whole story here.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11112967

    • Clemgeopin 21.1

      “The resignation will trigger Labour’s new leadership selection rules for the first time, giving votes to party members and affiliated unions, as well as MPs.
      Gallery The most likely contenders are David Cunliffe and Grant Robertson; both have said they will decide over the next few days whether to run.

      Mr Cunliffe said Mr Shearer’s decision had come as a surprise and he did not know what had prompted him to believe he had lost the confidence of his caucus. “We respect he has come to a decision he believes is in the best interests of the Labour Party.”

      Mr Robertson said he had been a loyal deputy to Mr Shearer, and had supported him throughout his 20 months as leader. “Everybody in the caucus, as everybody in the wider Labour Party, would like to see us doing better in the polls and David has obviously reflected on that. He made his own decision.”

      Andrew Little would not rule out seeking the leadership, but because he is a first-term MP he may be wary of making the run before he is ready. Shane Jones is also unlikely to contest it because he believes he would not get the support. David Parker and Phil Goff both ruled it out.

      Labour MPs yesterday said they were saddened by Mr Shearer’s decision, and described him as a man of integrity who had done his best. But none said he had made the wrong decision.”

  19. RedBaronCV 22

    I really should not go read the herald. Big story about the number of women on the DPB(now called something else) dropping and somehow we should thank Nact? Reprinted press release by the look of it. Do they have to be so uncritical?

    Could it perhaps have something to do with the demographics of an aging population meaning fewer people in that age group?
    Or possibly women(who are much more likely to be on the DPB) no longer attempting to look after the kids because its nearly impossible at the current levels of harassment.

    And more boasting about fewer teen parents on benefits- no mention of whether the birthrate for this category has fallen or whether they are simply not receiving any money- which should be a huge concern for everyone.

  20. Draco T Bastard 23

    TRANSITIONS FOR SOCIETY: JOB GUARANTEE AND BASIC INCOME

    This film presents a huge social problem called technological unemployment. Whilst doing so, the film also presents two potential solutions to this major social issue. The transitional path described in the film concerns a transition towards a job guarantee program of environmentally sustainable, socially and scientifically beneficial jobs through a public service program organised by the government, coupled with an eventual transition towards an Unconditional Basic Income.

  21. North 24

    Happens I’m sort of watching The Graham Norton Show right now. TV3. 9.10 pm Thursday. Hugh Grant and two other very appealing guests.

    Does this resonate with anyone ? Paul Henry, world famous in New Zealand apparently, is a MUCH less entertaining, MUCH less bright, MUCH more viperish, Graham Norton rip-off.

    Yeah. And Henry’s what we’ve gotta be satisfied with. Yeah ? Really ?

    Oh this is fucked, pretensious, Auckland New Zealand then. Snotty wee narcissist Henry. The self proclaimed Prince of the Media. Jeez-uz !

    PS – Graham Norton has a considerable and oft-paraded distaste for Hoorah Henry David Cameron. Which is excellent.

  22. greywarshark 25

    Speed learning on today’s economics with Mark Blyth – The Austerity Delusion – in an attractive Scottish brogue.

    And it’s condensed so there is more economics and wall charts than from your average lecturer in only 22 minutes. You will be surprised and amazed and you will almost understand what Treasury is thinking, and you may be able to replace one of those useless theories of a human being who if they were truly competitive and efficient, would have tenders for their jobs and therefore cost us half the salary burden.

    And you will love him if you are a leftie. He was brought up in Dundee, Scotland by his grandmother and went to school there when schools still worked, and there were opportunities for work also in those days. And so welfare made this guy, plus mothering skills, and now he is an Ivy-league professor in the USA. That’s how the system was supposed to work with social mobility, he says, but now it doesn’t – it’s broken.

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