web analytics

Open mike 17/11/09

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 17th, 2009 - 34 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

mike

Topics of interest, announcements, general discussion. The usual rules apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Over to you…

34 comments on “Open mike 17/11/09 ”

  1. Bored 1

    A most perceptive comment from Prism yesterday “So many and particularly those of the right wing persuasion, talk and think about government as if it is a service centre for their own needs and wants”.

    Deserves some real debate.

    • Evenmorebored 1.1

      Prism could just as well have said

      “So many and particularly those of the left wing persuasion, talk and think about government as if it is a service centre for their own needs and wants’.

      and it would have been just as valid.

      • Pascal's bookie 1.1.1

        Now that really is boring, unless you can justify it.

        One example of this is how people talk about ‘taxpayers’ rights. This is silly talk; people don’t gain any rights as taxpayers (or at least they shouldn’t), they get rights as citizens.

        “Taxpayers” rights, for what they are worth, are limited to having their tax bill properly established and payment collected. They have a right to dispute the amount or what have you, but I can’t see how they get any rights beyond that by virtue of paying tax.

        It’s the same with “tax payers money”. That makes no more sense than “telecom customer’s money” being spent by telecom on whatever. It ceases to be the ‘taxpayers’ money when they hand it over to the Crown. After that it becomes the Crown’s money. All citizens a have a say in how that money is spent, collected, and accounted for through the political process. They gain that say by virtue of their citizenship, not their status as a ‘taxpayer’.

        • vto 1.1.1.1

          Yes, and therein lies one of the biggest problems Ps B.

          The larger number of one type of citizen can vote to impose their own desires (not even needs) on the smaller number of taxpayers. The tyranny of the majority.

          This was one of the big gripes with Clark and Cullen buying votes – or rather telling a larger number of one type of citizen that they can have x, y, z by taking it off the smaller number of taxpayers, eg the 39%ers.

          Shocking.

          Tyranny.

          Citizenship / Votership / Taxpayership should be, within obvious reason, reasonably closely aligned in the interests of long term stability.

          • Pascal's bookie 1.1.1.1.1

            “long term stability’

            The system seems to be working ok so far v.

            But stability cuts both ways.

            Handing out extra rights to the elites, or doing other things to protect them from the masses, should the masses choose to use the ballot gain them, is also a recipe for instability. Pitchforks, tumbrils etc.

            As for buying votes, righties do it different. They promiss tax cuts funded out of spending/service cuts. The spending/service cuts never seem to eventuate however, so the tax cuts are actually just a shifting of taxation to the future.

            • vto 1.1.1.1.1.1

              Yes of course. It is a balancing act between the forces which should never be lost sight of lest all hell breaks loose.

              I just thought it was a bit too far off in one direction when you said that taxpaying and voting should never be linked. That is a recipe for disaster. They were of course linked completely in he past when only landowners and taxpayers could vote. That has morphed to todays situation – but that morphing seems to be slowly continuing where the link is becoming too broken.

              Rights and obligations must always go together lest all hell breaks loose (again). Rights to receive with no obligation to contribute will make a system, any system, fail. Similarly with being obliged to contribute without a commensurate right to receive.

              Anyway, its a blue blazer day here and the ocean beckons so must attend..

          • Pascal's bookie 1.1.1.1.2

            “use the ballot agin them”

          • prism 1.1.1.1.3

            There certainly is a tyranny in making use of percentages all the time, they appear to be a good measuring device but rather they are a sliding scale. The intention when the 39% tax was that then you were earning a good whack. Where Cullen was slack, was in not putting earnings on an inflation index which would have ensured that people didn’t slide into higher tax bracket as soon as they got a short distance into the middle income bracket.

            No amount of clever replies by Cullen in the House could excuse that omission. I got sick of his smug little smile, father knows best look.

        • Noko 1.1.1.2

          All citizens a have a say in how that money is spent, collected, and accounted for through the political process.

          No they do. Especially 16 and 17 year olds, who (along with anyone of any age) pay GST, and work just as hard as the rest of the population. 17 year olds can volunteer for the military, and are criminally responsible. Why should they be allowed the vote, and the chance to influence policy (aside from writing a letter to Micheal Lhaws and getting abused for it)?

          • Pascal's bookie 1.1.1.2.1

            Good points. I think the voting age should definately be looked at. But I don’t think the qualification for getting the franchise should be the ‘tax paying’ part.

      • prism 1.1.2

        Not really EMB. Usually the left wing want services provided for great numbers of people, so they are likely to be more democratic than right wingers who want to stay a small tight percentage at the top of the wealth pyramid, or are people who want to reach that group and to hell with everyone else.

  2. Ron 2

    Um, no, EMB – that’s not debate……..

  3. jcuknz 3

    I suggest that it is good debate, pointing out that people have universal aims irrespective of their politics when it comes to the nitty gritty … but you need to have two eyes to see the truth of the matter.

    • Ron 3.1

      Agreed. But my comment was made this morning and ought to have appeared straight after EMB’s first comment….which wasn’t

  4. Tigger 4

    Key is already softening us up for accepting the dead rats the US will demand for a ‘free trade’ deal.

    “You can’t rule out Pharmac – it has been on the list before. You can’t rule out issues of intellectual property and investment. All of those things will inevitably be part of the negotiations,” Key said.”

    • gitmo 4.1

      I think you can rule out PHARMAC being on the hit list Tigger.

      They are a model that is being increasingly used in other countries and most of the US based Pharma companies are dead or in their death throes in NZ, god knows what he’s on about in relation to IP – PHARMAC hacks prices on medicines via tender after they have lost IP protection not before.

      • Pascal's bookie 4.1.1

        “I think you can rule out PHARMAC being on the hit list Tigger.”

        Wanna bet? We may not give in, but you bet your arse the USA will have it on their list of things.

        Q) Why are the US pharma co’s dead or in their death throes in NZ?

        A) PHARMAC?

        ergo,

        Q) What will they want their government to be doing in FTA negotiations?

        • gitmo 4.1.1.1

          I think you over estimate the importance of NZ to US durg maunfacturers – we’re five tenths of fuck all.

          The primary reason that PHARMAC has been successful in NZ is the companies fighting each other and very cheap generics out of India and Europe.

          While I’m sure that it would be on the wish list of the americans in relation to an FTA I’m also pretty sure it’s something they could give up pretty easily whereas I seriously doubt we’re going to get open access to sell our dairy, meat, etc etc into the US anytime soon.

    • vto 4.2

      A free trade deal with the USA simply scares the living daylights out of me.

      Count me out.

  5. Tigger 5

    So when Key says I shouldn’t rule out Pharma, gitmo, I shouldn’t believe him?

    vto – agreed.

    • gitmo 5.1

      I think he’s just producing a soundbite nothing more nothing less.

      I’d also echo VTOs comments about an FTA with the US – best people review what the real benefits have been for Australia.

      Our big opportunity would be horticulture/agriculture and you can bet that there’ll be more hooks than in a Mitre 10 store.

      • Tigger 5.1.1

        US drug companies are notoriously venal. I’d say Pharmac is under threat big time.

        In other words, I am agreeing with Mr Key.

        Hell just froze over.

        • gitmo 5.1.1.1

          Nah the US drug companies have enough trouble with generic (off patent) suppliers in their own country to give a crap about NZ anymore – times have moved on.

          • Ron 5.1.1.1.1

            I don’t think it’s the companies that you have to worry about in the first instance. It’s the ideologues. They are quite capable of quietly inserting clauses that rule out sovereign decision making processes such as Pharmac simply becuase they (the politicians) see such processes as barriers to the God of Free Trade

            • prism 5.1.1.1.1.1

              And once we have free trade won’t all of us in this country have the opportunity to be rich and wealthy and rewarded for our work! I don’t think. Sweat shop work again, after people laboured years ago to get away from that. Worker fired because she shared her complimentary cola with a friend, being timed on the toilet, no decent lunchhour (people used to rustle out to buy some vegs for tea, make a phone call, attend to personal business in their lunch hour along with a quick bite, now your tea is hardly cool before you’re due back at work) Living and working conditions keep deteriorating with these empty politicians serving big business.

      • prism 5.1.2

        gitmo – Could you give the address for the review of USA free trade agreement that has been good for Australia. I have wondered how they were doing. It wasn’t touted as being useful to them, more the opposite.

  6. Tigger 6

    Ian Wishart at his blog “I love the way greens often use children as emotionally manipulative props in their various propaganda schemes.”

    Yes, only the greens do that sort of thing… Tosser.

    • outofbed 6.1

      I’m a Green and I don’t often use children as emotionally manipulative props in my various propaganda schemes.
      I don’t hit them either

    • prism 6.2

      Ian Wishart expresses ideas in his writing which can be summarised as follows –
      “emotionally manipulative props in [his] their various propaganda schemes.’

  7. Pascal's bookie 7

    Useless thought experiment for the day:

    Imagine everyone was asked what job, of all those available, they would like to do.

    Imagine that everyone capable of doing their preferred job would have the training for that job provided.

    Imagine that remuneration for jobs was determined by the supply of qualified candidates vs the number of jobs, so if there are lots of candidates for a few positions the wage would be lower than where there were few candidates for jobs with lots of vacancies.

    How much would people who clean up other people’s shit get compared to more interesting work?

  8. outofbed 8

    better then the shit wages they get now
    thats 4sure

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Clean car package to drive down emissions
    New rebates for electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles start July 1 with up to $8,625 for new vehicles and $3,450 for used. Electric vehicle chargers now available every 75km along most state highways to give Kiwis confidence. Low Emission Transport Fund will have nearly four times the funding by 2023 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    12 hours ago
  • Progress towards simpler process for changing sex on birth certificates
    The Government is taking the next step to support transgender, non-binary and intersex New Zealanders, by progressing the Births, Deaths, Marriages and Relationships Registration Bill, Minister of Internal Affairs, Jan Tinetti announced today. “This Government understands that self-identification is a significant issue for transgender, non-binary and intersex New Zealanders, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • Crown speeds up engagement with takutai moana applicants
    The Crown is taking a new approach to takutai moana applications to give all applicants an opportunity to engage with the Crown and better support the Māori-Crown relationship, Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Minister Andrew Little says. Following discussions with applicant groups, the Crown has reviewed the existing takutai moana application ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Alcohol and Other Drug Treatment (AODT) Court opens
    The Minister of Justice, Kris Faafoi, and the Minister for Courts, Aupito William Sio, have welcomed the opening of a new Alcohol and Other Drug Treatment (AODT) Court in Hamilton. The AODT Court (Te Whare Whakapiki Wairua) addresses situations where substance abuse and offending are intertwined. “New Zealanders have told ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • EU and UK FTAs top of list for first ministerial trip since COVID-19
    Trade and Export Growth Minister Damien O’Connor today announced details of his planned visit to the United Kingdom and European Union next week, where he will hold trade and agriculture discussions to further New Zealand’s economic recovery from COVID-19. The visit will add political weight to ongoing negotiations with both the EU ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Arihia Bennett to chair Royal Commission Ministerial Advisory Group
    Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu chief executive Arihia Bennett MNZM has been appointed chair of the newly appointed Ministerial Advisory Group on the Government’s Response to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the terrorist attack on Christchurch mosques. “Twenty-eight people from diverse backgrounds across Aotearoa have been selected for the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Medical Association General Practitioners' Conference, Rotorua
    Ki ngā pou maha o te whare hauora o Aotearoa, kei te mihiTo the pillars of our health system I acknowledge/thank you Ki te ope hapai hauora o roto o tēnei rūma, kei te mihi To our health force here in the room today, I acknowledge/thank you He taura tangata, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Karangahape Road upgrades are streets ahead
    The upgrades to Karangahape Road makes the iconic street more pedestrian and cycle-friendly, attractive and environmentally sustainable, Transport Minister Michael Wood and Auckland Mayor Phil Goff said at the formal celebration of the completion of the Karangahape Road Enhancements project. The project included widening footpaths supporting a better outdoor dining ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to APEC business event
    E ngā tumu herenga waka, ākina ā ngaru, ākina ā tai ka whakatere ngā waka ki te whakapapa pounamu, otirā, ki Tamaki o ngā waka Tena koutou katoa… To the great leaders assembled, who guided your waka through turbulent times, challenging waters and you continue to navigate your respective waka ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Pause on Quarantine Free Travel with Victoria extended
    Following an assessment of the COVID-19 outbreak in greater Melbourne, New Zealand’s Quarantine Free Travel pause with Victoria will continue for a further seven days, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins says. There are now 93 cases associated with the outbreak in greater Melbourne, spread over four clusters. Contact tracing efforts ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Supplier Diversity Aotearoa Summit: Navigate 2021
    *** Check with delivery *** A mihi to all who have contributed to making today a success – starting with you! As you have explored and navigated government procurement today you will hopefully have reflected on the journey of our people so far – and how you can make a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Pukemiro School to close
    Pukemiro Primary School near Huntly will close following years of declining roll numbers, Education Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. “I’ve consulted with the School Commissioner, and this decision acknowledges the fact that the few remaining students from last term are now settled at other nearby schools. “I want to thank ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Govt acts to protect NZers from harmful content
    New Zealanders will be better protected from harmful or illegal content as a result of work to design a modern, flexible and coherent regulatory framework, Minister of Internal Affairs Jan Tinetti announced today. New Zealand currently has a content regulatory system that is comprised of six different arrangements covering some ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Consultation on exemption of new builds from proposed tax rules
    The Government has today confirmed new builds will be exempt from planned changes to the tax treatment of residential investment property.  Public consultation is now open on details of the proposals, which stop interest deductions being claimed for residential investment properties other than new builds.   “The Government’s goal is to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech for Predator Free 2050 Conference
    Introduction E ngā mana E ngā reo E ngā iwi Tēnā koutou katoa   Ka huri ki ngā mana whenua o te rohe nei. Tēnā koutou He mihi hoki ki a tatou kua tau mai nei i raro i te kaupapa o te rā Ko Ayesha Verrall toku ingoa No ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New stock exchange to help grow small businesses
    A new share trading market, designed as a gateway to the NZX for small-to-medium-sized enterprises (SMEs), has been granted a licence by the Government. Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister, David Clark said Catalist Markets Ltd will provide a simpler and more affordable ‘stepping stone’ for SMEs to raise capital. “This ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Visa extensions provide certainty to employers and 10,000 visa holders
    Changes to onshore visas will provide employers and visa holders with more certainty, Immigration Minister Kris Faafoi has announced. Around 10,000 Working Holiday visas and Supplementary Seasonal Employment (SSE) work visas due to expire between 21 June 2021 and 31 December 2021 will be extended for another six months to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Border class exceptions approved for more farm workers and vets
    The Government has approved border class exceptions for an additional 200 dairy workers and 50 veterinarians to enter New Zealand, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor announced today.  “It is clear from conversations with the dairy and veterinarian sectors that they are facing workforce pressures. These border exceptions will go a long ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • More freezers and South Island hub to support vaccine roll-out
    A South Island hub and 17 new ultra-low temperature freezers will help further prepare New Zealand for the ramp up of the vaccination programme in the second half of this year, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins says. The new freezers arrived in New Zealand on 27 May. They’re currently being ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech at the release of Climate Change Commission's final advice
    Good morning – and thank you Prime Minister. Over the last three and half years we have been putting in place the foundations for a low-carbon Aotearoa that will be a catalyst for job creation, innovation, and prosperity for decades to come. In that future, many of our everyday tasks ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Achievable blueprint for addressing climate change released
    Report says Government making good progress on emissions reduction, but more action required Meeting climate targets achievable and affordable with existing technology Economic cost of delaying action higher than taking action now Benefits from climate action include health improvements and lower energy bills All Ministers to help meet climate targets ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech to release of Climate Commission final report
    A few years ago in a speech in Auckland, I compared climate change to the nuclear free movement of roughly four decades ago. And I did so for a few reasons. Firstly, because the movement of the 1980s represented a life or death situation for the Pacific, and so does ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Appointment of Judge of the High Court
    Auckland Barrister Michael Robinson has been appointed a Judge of the High Court, Attorney‑General David Parker announced today. Justice Robinson graduated with a BA and an LLB (Hons) from the University of Auckland in 1996, and commenced practice as a solicitor with Brookfields in Auckland.  In 1998 he travelled to London ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government takes action to improve protections for subcontractors
    The Construction Contracts (Retention Money) Amendment Bill – which provides greater financial protection for subcontractors, has passed its first reading today. The Bill amends the retention provisions in the Construction Contracts Act 2002 (CCA) to provide increased confidence and transparency for subcontractors that retention money they are owed is safe. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • 1 million more Pfizer doses to arrive in July
    Pfizer has scheduled delivery of an estimated 1 million doses of vaccine to New Zealand during July, COVID1-9 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “These consignments will double the total number of Pfizer doses we have received this year to more than 1,900,000 – enough to fully vaccinate almost 1 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Long-term home of the Independent Children’s Monitor identified
    The Independent Children’s Monitor (Te Mana Whakamaru Tamariki Motuhake), which is currently located within the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), will become its own departmental agency within Government. “Following the recommendations of several reviews, Cabinet agreed in 2019 to build a significantly expanded independent monitor for children in care,” Carmel ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Racing Integrity Board members announced
    The new Racing Integrity Board will be up and running from July 1 to ensure high standards of animal welfare, integrity and professionalism in the racing industry. Racing Minister Grant Robertson today announced the appointments to the new Board: Sir Bruce Robertson KNZM – Chair Kristy McDonald ONZM QC Penelope ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Govt crackdown on organised crime continues
    A major operation against multiple organised crime groups with international links will make a significant dent in drug harm and violent offending linked to organised crime networks, Police Minister Poto Williams says. “I want to take an opportunity to congratulate the Police for their role in Operation Trojan Shield. This ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Farm planning framework supports farmers into the future
    A new framework, agreed between Government and industry, will make it easier for farmers and growers to integrate future greenhouse gas emissions and freshwater regulatory requirements into their farm planning, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor said. “The Good Farm Planning Principles Guide out today, provides guidance for how farmers can organise ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Enhanced Task Force Green Approved for Canterbury
    The Government has activated Enhanced Taskforce Green (ETFG) in response to the Canterbury floods. The Minister of Social Development and Employment, Hon Carmel Sepuloni says $500,000 will be made available to help with the clean-up. The flooding in Canterbury has been a significant and adverse event damaging farmland, homes, roads ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Connecting rangatahi to the soil
    A Jobs for Nature project to raise 480,000 native plants in nurseries across South Auckland will provide work for communities disproportionately affected by the economic impacts of COVID-19, Acting Conservation Minister Ayesha Verrall says. The Mana in Kaimahi project is being run by Te Whāngai Trust Board and will establish ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Roll out of high-resolution elevation mapping begins
    The first tranche of mapping data from the Provincial Growth Fund (PGF)-LiDAR project is now available to the public from Toitū Te Whenua Land Information New Zealand. LiDAR data, which creates 3D baseline elevation information, will deliver multiple uses over the coming decades to councils and regional industries. “This mapping ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Champions of Pacific education rewarded in Queen’s Birthday Honours
    Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio said the Queen’s Birthday 2021 Honours list show that across Aotearoa New Zealand there were many champions of Pacific education. “Education is so vital to the success of Pacific people that it’s truly fitting that a number of educators have been honoured this ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • PM congratulates Queen’s Birthday Honours recipients
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has added her congratulations to the New Zealanders recognised for their contributions to their communities and the country in the Queen’s Birthday 2021 Honours List. “This group represents decades of services across many areas, and those honoured highlight how many New Zealanders are going above and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Change of status for Rangiriri kura
    A change of status for Te Kura o Rangiriri sees it become a designated character school within the Māori-medium network, Associate Minister of Education Kelvin Davis announced today. “This kura has been providing Māori immersion learning since 2003 in the historic town of Rangiriri, so I’m delighted that it is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • APEC trade ministers’ unite on COVID-19 vaccine steps and rejuvenating the WTO
    APEC trade ministers today committed to speeding up the cross-border flow of vaccines and related goods to fight the COVID-19 pandemic. This followed the completion of the APEC Ministers Responsible for Trade Meeting chaired by Minister for Trade and Export Growth Damien O’Connor early this morning. “As we face the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Further consultation for Melville schools
    Formal consultation is set to begin on specific options for the future of schooling in South West Hamilton, Education Minister Chris Hipkins says. “Recent engagement has shown that the schools and community want a change to Year 7-13 schooling for the area.  “I am now asking the Boards of Melville ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Primary schoolkids dig trees for Arbor Day
    A new Arbor Day initiative announced by Forestry Minister Stuart Nash will see thousands of primary school children get the chance to plant native trees in their communities. The initiative is open to more than 2,400 primary schools. It is a partnership between Te Uru Rākau/NZ Forest Service and the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ Upgrade Programme kept on track
    The Government is increasing its investment in the New Zealand Upgrade Programme (NZUP) to support New Zealand’s economic recovery. Over two thirds of the projects will proceed as announced despite increased costs due to COVID, with modifications being made to others. “NZUP is already supporting over 1,000 jobs with 13 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Northern Pathway gets green light
    The Government is committed to the Northern Pathway with its preferred option being a separate structure for walking and cycling alongside the Auckland Harbour Bridge, Transport Minister Michael Wood announced today. Geotechnical investigations and testing has determined that building a structure connected to the Auckland Harbour Bridge is not possible ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago