Open mike 17/12/2010

75 comments on “Open mike 17/12/2010 ”

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1. pollywog 1

   17 December 2010 at 6:31 am

   Thought for Friday…

   Even the sun shines on a dogs ass some days
   • Bored 1.1

     17 December 2010 at 10:58 am

     Hi Polly, brings a little context to the meeeting between Diogenes and Alexander…

     Alexander, thrilled to meet the famous philosopher, asked if there was any favour he might do for him. Diogenes replied, “Yes, stand out of my sunlight”. Alexander then declared, “If I were not Alexander, then I should wish to be Diogenes.”[24] In another account of the conversation, Alexander found the philosopher looking attentively at a pile of human bones. Diogenes explained, “I am searching for the bones of your father but cannot distinguish them from those of a slave.”

     There may be some wisdom around light and dogs backsides…who knows?
2. Sanctuary 2

   17 December 2010 at 7:22 am

   Ah, the big hearted generosity of the boss class-

   “…Staff at a North Island freezing works had their pay cut for the official two-minute silence to remember the 29 miners killed in the Pike River mine…”

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10694840

   These are the sort of people right wingers would deliver us to for mercy in their “free market” society.
   • cardassian 2.1

     17 December 2010 at 7:56 am

     The article says that the union turned down the opportunity for the workers to make up the 2 minutes as overtime (and therefore get paid overtime rates) as it wasn’t about money but showing solidarity.
     Could of been handled better by the bosses but not exactly evil capitalists taking advantage of the uninformed here.
     Also to be fair this is the same company that is paying the workers full pay until christmas and minimum wage until new years despite the fact they can’t work due to the plant burning down.
     They’ve also offered to pay for workers relocation if they want to take up work at another branch in the new year.
   • Lanthanide 2.2

     17 December 2010 at 9:50 am

     How much is 2 minutes worth anyway? 50 cents if they’re being paid $15/hour. What sort of pathetic company goes out of it’s way to dock 50 cents from each staff’s pay? That’d probably cost more in admin overhead than they recoup.
     • prism 2.2.1

       17 December 2010 at 10:30 am

       Lanthanide and Sanctuary –
       The 2 minute silence meant a difference for the company and the workers of two less animals each, being processed. That would mean that the company wouldn’t meet its production requirements for the work period to meet its orders and wouldn’t humanely handle animals that had been prepared to be killed.

       One 2 minute break per person multiplied by all the workers, means an overall expensive overhead cost for the plant. The company can’t replace product for orders with cards of sympathy. If they offered extra time to make up quota, with overtime pay, they were being rational and fair. If the union refused to do this then it was being unsupportive to the company, and the jobs provided, and for a whim. If the union used their brains and acted responsibly towards the company the workers would have finished their work requirement with overtime, and then donated that overtime pay to assist fellow workers in need with much needed cash – and that would be a meaningful way to show solidarity.

       captcha – suffered
       • Bored 2.2.1.1

         17 December 2010 at 11:02 am

         Prism, from the employers angle you are right. Experience in these places tells me however that reality is not nearly as precise, times vary. What happens more often than not is that the company turns a blind eye to the extra few minutes they gain here and there, but always hammer the ones they lose. Sound like there is no give and take at the plant, the workers described the company as “mongrels”. Maybe there is something else going on we do not know about?
         • prism 2.2.1.1.1

           17 December 2010 at 11:10 am

           True Bored. But thought of the problem from the employer’s point of view about output and schedules – something that unions don’t always do to their own and the business’s disadvantage.
           • mcflock 2.2.1.1.1.1

             17 December 2010 at 1:22 pm

             Let’s see the stats from the article: $170 workers * $1.50 per animal * 2 animals (63 seconds to process an animal) = $510.

             Sum cost to SFF.

             The joys of having free advertising painting them as penny-pinching dicks who can’t deal with 2 minutes silence? Priceless.
           • Vicky32 2.2.1.1.1.2

             17 December 2010 at 10:10 pm

             Yes, but the action is disgusting Prism. 2 minutes for goodness’ sake! From what I have read, workers didn’t even get a choice about whether they wanted to observe the silence! It’s just crazy..
             Deb
3. Pascal's bookie 3

   17 December 2010 at 7:35 am

   hardcopy granny sez:

   Treasury is required to declare fiscal risks facing the Government in economic updates. In the recent half-yearly update, the rules have changed without anyone paying attention. The threshold for such risks has been lifted from $10 million to $100 million which matters because the Government says it has only just over $1 billion for new spending, and most of that is accounted for. And anyway, Finance Minister Bill English can veto what is listed if he believes it is not in the national interest to make it public. This makes some nervous about what Treasury might be worrying about, but may have been told not to disclose.
   • Draco T Bastard 3.1

     17 December 2010 at 11:33 am

     So, that would be Blinglish manipulating the numbers to try and make himself look good again?
4. burt 4

   17 December 2010 at 7:41 am

   I see in the dom post today that Chris Carter said he might stand as an independent… so a police inquiry into his rorts starts today ?
   • felix 4.1

     17 December 2010 at 9:43 pm

     Is this another development in your delusion that Teh Police secretly work for Teh Labour Party?
     • Pascal's bookie 4.1.1

       17 December 2010 at 11:08 pm

       They do have a union dontchaknow. Case closed.
5. Muzza 5

   17 December 2010 at 7:51 am

   Obama continues his run towards the right. It really is amazing watching someone so effectively alienate and disenfranchise their base. Obama has no credibility as a lefty. Spare the arguments along the lines of ‘he has to work within the political reality’ or ‘ these are extraordinary circumstances’. He is a failure and this open letter, signed by some of America’s leading lefties, further reinforces that idea.

   http://www.truth-out.org/an-open-letter-left-establishment65848
   • Lanthanide 5.1

     17 December 2010 at 9:51 am

     What passes for ‘left wing’ in America is ‘right wing’ to the rest of the world anyway.
     • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1

       17 December 2010 at 11:34 am

       That may be true but Obama did promise change and indicated actually going left.
   • millsy 5.2

     17 December 2010 at 10:24 am

     40-odd years ago, only Nixon could go to China, now only Obama could cut Social Security and Medicare (and sack schoolteachers en masse something that Anne Tolley could only dream of doing.)

     Of course, the USA could cut its huge debt by closing down some of its military bases around the world, 100 of which are in Germany.
     • Lanthanide 5.2.1

       17 December 2010 at 10:56 am

       That would give them an even bigger unemployment problem.
       • Bored 5.2.1.1

         17 December 2010 at 11:05 am

         What problem? Get real, the right sees no problem with unemployment, it keeps wages down, imposes discipline through fear. it is only a problem if you are unemployed.

         I am getting to thinking that Lenin was right, to get workers to rebel you need to make life unbearable.
         • Lanthanide 5.2.1.1.1

           17 December 2010 at 11:34 am

           The unemployment problem is a problem for senators and representatives in congress, and ultimately the president. When senators or congressmen don’t do enough to cut unemployment, they too are made unemployed and replaced with someone else who the public think might be able to do a better job.

           Therefore: cutting military spending, cutting military jobs = you lose your elected position and gravy train.
           • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1.1.1.1

             17 December 2010 at 11:39 am

             Shutting down the bases wouldn’t necessarily increase unemployment as the troops could still be employed but the US would still save money because the bases themselves are expensive to maintain.
           • Bored 5.2.1.1.1.2

             17 December 2010 at 4:38 pm

             Sorry Lan, what problem? Give me an example of one time serving right wing senator being replaced by a lefty equivalent who manages to do any different? Look at Obama today.
             • Lanthanide …

               17 December 2010 at 5:42 pm

               I think you missed my point. Unemployment is a problem for any senator or congressman that lets it happen on their watch, because they’re likely to be voted out. Whether or not whoever it is replaces them does a better job or not is irrelevant once they’ve been voted out.

               So although you say “the right don’t care about unemployment”, from this perspective they do – because they’ll be out of a job if they don’t handle it.
               • Zorr …

                 17 December 2010 at 8:56 pm

                 Which is why such congresspeople and senators actively vote against unemployment payment extensions? Most of these guys could care less about the “voting public” because a) most of the public don’t vote and b) any of those that do can be won over by loud music, lasers, Sarah Palin and the threat of “socialism”
6. ron 6

   17 December 2010 at 8:16 am

   This
   http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/64389/aid-agencies-criticise-scheme-over-funding-rejections

   is only the tip of a very smelly pile.
   The fiasco around development funding is mirrored in a number of other government departments at the moment.
   Education providers are still waiting for important details from TEC about their contracts for next year – just a month away.
   Ministry of Youth development has yet to finalise contracts for funding approved months ago.
   MSD seem unable to supply important background information to contractors. Entire provision systems have been the victim of last minute changes to contracts, processes and structures.
   New funds set up by this government are characterised by inconsistent decisions, overly complex processes and lack of information to those applying. New contracting processes are characterised by last minute changes and rushed processes. Most of all it seems no-one in these departments knows what’s going on.

   The cause of this situation? Ideologically driven Ministers handing down badly thought out instructions to their departments – often against advice from the very people who then have to administer the mess.
   Confusion, ideological funding decisions and chaotic processes are now endemic in the government relationship with providers.
   • burt 6.1

     17 December 2010 at 10:53 am

     Confusion, ideological funding decisions and chaotic processes are now endemic in the government relationship with providers.

     Moving from a pure bums on seats model designed only to produce good ‘in work’ education statistics to a results and outcomes driven funding model will cause confusion. Stick with it Ron, if the organisations you speak off have any real value other than creating employment under a Labour tax payer spending circus then you will provide value rather than only good looking stats.
     • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1

       17 December 2010 at 11:44 am

       burt, you failed to read what ron said, specifically, New contracting processes are characterised by last minute changes and rushed processes. Most of all it seems no-one in these departments knows what’s going on which would indicate that the ministers are making kneejerk ideological decisions, changing their minds in more kneejerk ideological decisions and then expecting the staff to cope with the chaos then created by the minister.

       In other words, NACT being completely incompetent.
     • Ron 6.1.2

       17 December 2010 at 1:31 pm

       Burt
       TOPS and YT are anything but “bums on seats” set ups.
       Providers have been required to deliver clear, timely, measurable and effective outcomes. For the most part have done that very effectively. They don’t receive their funding if they don’t. Of course “numbers” are a part of that but qualifications and employment are a much more importtant part.
       In TOPS the Govt has now DOUBLED the required throughput required (there’s your “bums on seats” – and you watch P Benefit crow about it in 2011 – “more people in training!”) and set substantially higher employment and training outcomes. (training outcomes that are frankly stupid) with not a skerric of extra funding. They have also moved a number of administrative roles on to providers further adding to the costs involved.

       Some of these outcomes are simply stupid and unattainable. Others just involve more staff and more work and will force many providers out of the field, further limiting the options for training and re-training. And of course none of the new structure addresses the major concern among providers – that is the pastoral support that many clients require in order to attain any outcomes. That was the biggest hole in the system and has been completely ignored. (an example – in the Nelson/Tasman region MSD have contracted 1 – One “in work support” worker. They are requiring over twice as many work placements from the TOPS courses, they require those people to stay in that placement 33% longer in order that the provider receives their funding and they have provided 1 person to ensure that. It’s a joke)

       In the “information gathering” process that occured late this year many providers pointed out the many holes in the new structure. They were ignored and now TEC?MSD are scrambling to find ways of making a dumb idea work.

       You “stick with it” comment is an insult. In my experience, these organisations are committed to and cater to the well being of their clients way over and above any contractual requirements. Society gets enormous value from these organisations and their staff. We will lose many of those workers this year and the Government will have worse employment results as a consequence. They will restructure again – and the same story will be repeated.
   • Vicky32 6.2

     17 December 2010 at 10:47 pm

     My friend who works for Tear Fund was very upset about the aid agency part of that, and posted Red Alert’s comment about it on Facebook..
     Deb
7. Name 7

   17 December 2010 at 10:12 am

   For a concise and comprehensible explanation of the economic catastrophe caused by greedy bankers in the US which is costing millions their homes I recommend:

   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/l-randall-wray/post_1440_b_797563.html

   Yet, amazingly, 60% of individual bankruptcies in the US are caused by medical costs incurred by people who actually had medical insurance!

   Ah America, home of the free.
8. Penny Bright 8

   17 December 2010 at 10:31 am

   Anyone who wants to help campaign for a NZ domestic legislative framework to PREVENT and fight corruption, and build genuinely transparency into central and local government and the judiciary – contact me.

   This campaign will particularly focus on exposing the ‘grand’ corruption involved in privatisation / private procurement/’contracting-out’ model – which is the underpinning basis for most bribery and corruption.

   That is why I am standing in the Botany by-election – to help build the public campaign to achieve these goals.

   Keen to help?

   Contact me.

   Pass the word! 🙂

   Penny Bright

   Media Spokesperson
   Water Pressure Group
   Judicially recognised ‘Public Watchdog’ on Metrowater, water, Auckland regional governance matters.
   “Anti-corruption campaigner”.
   Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2009.
   Attendee: Transparency International 14th International Anti-Corruption Conference 2010
   Auckland Mayoral candidate 2010

   [email deleted]
   • OleOlebiscuitBarrell 8.1

     17 December 2010 at 10:37 am

     But, according to Transparency International, we are already the least corrupt country in the world.

     http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/2007-transparency-international-corruption-perceptions.html

     It’s like starting a group to address the lack of appreciation of Rugby Union Football in New Zealand.
     • Pascal's bookie 8.1.1

       17 December 2010 at 10:47 am

       http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/140144/shock-nz-corruption-level

       A global survey has revealed an “alarming” level of corruption in New Zealand, with 4% of respondents admitting to paying a bribe in the past year.

       Transparency International’s (TI) 2010 survey also showed that 73% New Zealanders thought corruption had increased over the past three years.

       The level of bribery uncovered in the survey was significantly worse than countries we usually compare well against, with 2% of Australian respondents admitting to paying a bribe in the past year and 1% percent of Britons.

       No respondents in Denmark admitted to paying a bribe.

       The results of the Global Corruption Barometer were in stark contrast with TI’s Corruption Perceptions Index, released in October, in which New Zealand retained the top spot for having the lowest perceived level of corruption in the public sector.

       TI’s New Zealand director, Alex Tan, said the results of the survey, which included New Zealand for the first time, were “alarming” and showed we needed to be vigilant in the fight against corruption.

       “This is truly an alarming result but, in some ways, not surprising. We have traditionally tended to rest on our laurels and think we are above corruption and bribery practices which are commonplace in the rest of the world,” Mr Tan said.

       Other results of the survey include that respondents thought political parties, followed by Parliament, were the most corrupt institutions.
     • burt 8.1.2

       17 December 2010 at 11:02 am

       We are retrospectively the least corrupt country in the world – easily done when you have the fastest law makers in the west, no formal constitution, and anything goes to kill off court cases when the dear leader is involved.

       Remember the Labour party inquiry that exonerated Taito Field – then remember what was it – 26 charges of corruption ?

       All the MPs need to remember is never threaten to stand as an independent and our least corrupt country rating is secure.
   • burt 8.2

     17 December 2010 at 11:04 am

     Penny Bright

     Great cause, it should find favour on this site while National are in power.
9. prism 9

   17 December 2010 at 10:52 am

   Heard Hon Hekia Parata new Minister for Women’s advancement speak this morning. So fashionably right wing and neo lib. All people are defined by their participation in the economy I think she said. So those who aren’t participating in paid employment aren’t real people, have no value in society, aren’t deserving of respect and consideration etc?

   Another pollie – Dunne – this morning said that the IRD workers in Greymouth wanted certainty about their jobs ie whether they had one so that’s why he has announced 50%? cuts before Christmas. Today’s version of the old saying that there’s two certainties in life, death and taxes, is to add that under NACT there’s a certainty of fewer tax workers and more taxes on everyone but the rich. And the tax working party happily hands out their Christmas wish list – more GST. Anyone would think we were a wealthy country like Switzerland that had and probably still has very high spending tax and well-heeled society. (Apart from the gastarbeiten perhaps).
10. Penny Bright 10

    17 December 2010 at 11:23 am

    Response to OleOlebiscuitBarrell

    FYI – I attended the Transparency International 14th International Anti-Corruption Conference held in Bangkok 10 – 13 November 2010.

    I suggested that Transparency International consider moving from a measurement of corruption based on ‘perception’ to one based upon reality.

    To assist – I widely distributed amongst the 1200 international delegates – the following:

    CORRUPTION REALITY CHECKLIST – NEW ZEALAND

    1. Has NZ ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption ? NO

    2. Does NZ have an independent anti-corruption body tasked with educating the
    public and PREVENTING corruption? NO

    3. Do NZ ‘s laws ensure transparency in the funding of candidates for elected public office and political parties at central government level ? NO

    4. Do NZ Members of Parliament have a ‘Code of Conduct’? NO

    5. Do NZ Local Govt elected reps have a ‘Code of Conduct’? YES

    6. Is it an offence for NZ Local Govt elected reps to breach the ‘Code of Conduct’? NO
    7. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Govt elected reps? NO

    8. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Central Govt staff responsible for procurement? NO

    9. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Govt staff responsible for procurement? NO

    10. Is there a lawful requirement for details of ‘contracts issued’ – including the name of the contractor; scope, term and value of the contract to be published in NZ Central Govt Public Sector, and Local Govt (Council) Annual Reports so that they are available for public scrutiny? NO

    11. Is it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Central Govt public finances be undertaken to substantiate that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority? NO

    12. Is it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Local Govt public finances be undertaken to substantiate that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority? NO

    13. Does NZ have a legally-enforcable ‘Code of Conduct’ for members of the NZ Judiciary? NO
    14. Are all NZ Court proceedings recorded, and audio records made available to parties who request them? NO

    15. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ Judicial ‘Register of Interests’? NO

    16. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ ‘Register of Lobbyists’ at Central Govt Ministerial level? NO

    17. Is there a legal requirement at NZ Central and Local Govt level for a ‘post-separation employment quarantine ‘ period, from the time officials leave the public service to take up a similar role in the private sector? NO

    18. Is it a lawful requirement that it is only a binding vote of the public majority that can determine whether public assets held at NZ Central Govt or Local Govt level are sold; or long-term leased via Public-Private –Partnerships? NO

    19. Is it unlawful in NZ for politicians to knowingly misrepresent their policies prior to election at central or local government level? NO

    20. Do NZ laws promote and protect individuals, NGOs and community-based organisations who are ‘whistleblowing’ against ‘conflicts of interest’ and corrupt practices at central and local govt level and within the judiciary? NO

    Prepared by Penny Bright –for Transparency International 14th Conference 7/11/2010
    IACC ID D – 1198 http://waterpressure.wordpress.com

    Interested in feedback on this one.

    Any thoughts on additions / alterations/ improvements?

    It’s a ‘work in progress’ ……

    Pretty incredible though for NZ the ‘least corrupt country in the world’?

    Cheers!

    Penny
    • grumpy 10.1

      17 December 2010 at 2:02 pm

      Well, consider it a test of lack of corruption in New Zealand and freedom of political expression that you are not in jail or disappeared as would have happened in some of the countries much admired on these pages.
11. O2B 11

    17 December 2010 at 11:28 am

    As a fairly new reader of The Standard, I just want to thank everyone that contributes positively on this site. I’m left-leaning individual – always have been – but sites such as this reaffirms my beliefs in the left and suspicions of the right.

    I am frankly disgusted by this current government and will be reminding my friends and family over Christmas when I head back home that they do have a choice, and next year they can choose a different form of government if they’re not satisfied. Despite being in a higher tax bracket myself, the fact this government seems hell bent in disenfranchising those who are not better off, while time and time again are lining the pockets of their own.

    I never wanted a tax cut. I don’t want ‘choices’ in who is providing my ACC. I can’t see any benefit in building a holiday highway north of Auckland as opposed to an inner city rail loop. I also can’t see how a cycleway will create ‘sustainable’ jobs. But I do want to live in a society that is inclusive and everyone has a right to feel that life isn’t a struggle.

    National may have individuals that are very good at making money but are hopeless in running a country. They are destroying the fabric of our communities in the name of big business. The sooner this lot are out of power the better.

    KB
    • r0b 11.1

      17 December 2010 at 11:41 am

      Welcome O2B – hope you’ll be commenting here more!
12. joe90 12

    17 December 2010 at 11:52 am

    Disturbing news that deep sea up-wellings may be the cause of melting Antarctic ice.

    THE GIST

    * Oceans have been hiding a lot of Earth’s warming by burying it in the deep sea.
    * The deep waters are now surfacing and melting ice on the Western Antarctic Peninsula.
    * The trend means that we’re already locked into long term melting and sea level rise.
13. Deadly_NZ 13

    17 December 2010 at 12:21 pm

    yes welcome to the free speech place…

    Now as to the state of the economy and the world. the last time things got so bad the politicians had themselves a world war.. That was fought by the disenfranchised and generally ne’er do wells and the poor. the rich just sat back and sold guns and bombs and what ever to each other and after 5 years they figured the population had been sufficiently culled, not many poor left to moan. thos that did were called commies and jailed. And the fat cats looked upon the destruction as said it was good, as they were going to get even richer rebuilding the infrastructure to thier idea of a free world.

    And the poor were left out in the cold
    Hmmmm sound familiar?

    nostradamus says the world will end in 2012 lets hope he meant the bigwigs and fatcats will get their come uppance but again i doubt it.

    Cynical???

    Who me?
14. Gotham 14

    17 December 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Check it out: how alligators commit suicide –

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/16/alligator-bites-electric-eel_n_797660.html
    • Vicky32 14.1

      17 December 2010 at 11:21 pm

      Just weird!
      Deb
    • felix 14.2

      18 December 2010 at 10:43 am

      How about how cats deal with alligators…
      
      • Pascal's bookie 14.2.1

        18 December 2010 at 11:16 am

        Cat v snake.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEZMctgaXNQ&feature=related

        That’s one fast cat.
        • felix 14.2.1.1

          18 December 2010 at 12:10 pm

          Wow those are lightning paws!
        • felix 14.2.1.2

          18 December 2010 at 12:37 pm

          p.s. Also, honey badgers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c81bcjyfn6U
15. prism 15

    17 December 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Sunday 19Dec 8 am RadioNZ Nigel Sterling et al on Chris Laidlaw’s show – talking about our currency. Any discussion on this is welcome I think, and too rare.
16. gobsmacked 16

    17 December 2010 at 1:34 pm

    RIP Tom Newnham

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/64371/human-rights-campaigner-tom-newnham-dies

    Time and again Tom stood up for justice, against the prevailing conservatism and prejudices of the time. And history says: he won. His causes moved from minority to mainstream – who now defends sporting ties to apartheid South Africa? But that change in public opinion didn’t happen automatically – it was thanks to the tireless efforts of people like Tom Newnham.

    Quietly determined, courteous and principled, he was an inspiration for all those who campaign for a better society, a better world.

    RIP.
    • Vicky32 16.1

      17 December 2010 at 11:25 pm

      I am sad to hear that! (I met him decades ago..)
      Deb
17. Raymond A Francis 17

    17 December 2010 at 1:45 pm

    I guess we will not being hearing about Doubledipton anymore
    It was sort of funny but not as funny as Mr Goff’s latest rip off
    By not going back into his own flat he was able to legally rip us all off
    “For his superanuation” don’t make me laugh this man is on the gold standard super
    • Pascal's bookie 17.1

      17 December 2010 at 1:49 pm

      Raymond,

      The way Goff did it, he was entitled to the subsidy.

      If Goff sold the flat, he would still be entitled to the subsidy.

      If he moved back into the flat, he would still be entitled to the subsidy.

      This is because Goff lives in Auckland in a way that English doesn’t live in Dipton.
      • just saying 17.1.1

        17 December 2010 at 2:16 pm

        “If he moved back into the flat, he would still be entitled to the subsidy.”

        Actually no, it is highly unlikely he would be able to claim anything like the full subsidy. He would no longer be able to claim rent, which would probably make up the bulk of his expenses claim. Let’s face it, in moving out of his apartment he was “arranging his affairs” to maximise the taxpayer subsidy. That’s probably what prompted him to announce that he would sell it.

        But it must be said that Double-dipton’s rort was far worse. He lied about where he lived in order to steal $1,000 per week from taxpayers.

        That neither contravened Parliament’s rules says a lot about the rules, the rule-makers and the rule enforcers.
        • prism 17.1.1.1

          17 December 2010 at 3:53 pm

          Just saying – Your comment is mostly assumption – you don’t know what Goff had in mind so why would you say the following –

          Let’s face it, in moving out of his apartment he was “arranging his affairs” to maximise the taxpayer subsidy. That’s probably what prompted him to announce that he would sell it.

          And if what he does is the best thing for him financially, then he is a sensible, practical, ethical man following the rules for housing, and a sight better than the NACT busyboys rushing around importantly demolishing society and the economy.
          • just saying 17.1.1.1.1

            17 December 2010 at 4:18 pm

            True prism, it is supposition. However, Goff promised to sell the apartment which suggests he may have felt guilty about it.

            How exactly does doing the best thing for himself financially make him a “sensible, practical, ethical man” as opposed to say, looking out for number one at the expense of the taxpayer.
            • prism 17.1.1.1.1.1

              19 December 2010 at 12:40 pm

              tc Sorry just got back. What do you mean by this?

              looking out for number one at the expense of the taxpayer.

              We need to pay our government members for their task, and assist them with their reasonable expenses incurred. Otherwise we will get governments drawn only from the wealthy. Also it is a Job which we expect to be done well, and they deserve to be recompensed for this or if not done well, questioned about their effectiveness not personally harrassed by unreasonable citizens.

              MPs who can run their financial affairs effectively and correctly demonstrate that they are capable to least that level. One hopes that will continue along the line of other attributes needed.

              Just because Goff said he thought he would sell his flat when he didn’t have to, doesn’t mean he can’t change his mind. As I understand the regs he Does Not have to sell any of his investment properties, if he has more than one, whether they are in Wellington or elsewhere.
              • prism …

                20 December 2010 at 10:18 am

                I wrongly addressed the comment to tc should have been just saying.
                Sorry
    • gobsmacked 17.2

      17 December 2010 at 1:50 pm

      There’s already a thread for that. This one’s for grown-ups.

      (edit – to Raymond, not PB)
    • lprent 17.3

      17 December 2010 at 1:54 pm

      There is rather a difference.

      Goff works in Wellington but his family are resident in Auckland.

      DoubleDipton lives and works in Wellington, his kids go to school there, his wife works there. But somehow he claimed that he lived in Dipton when all of the evidence is contrary.

      Perhaps you’d care to explain how the two cases are anyway similar? Personally I suspect that any answer you come up with is going to be quite funny and I’ll have fun tearing it apart to expose the inherent stupidity
      when I have time.
      • O2B 17.3.1

        17 December 2010 at 2:54 pm

        1prent – exactly my sentiments. A totally different situation for Goff. I like to hear other responses from RWNJs on this, other that ‘ohhh… it’s not a good look…. he said he was going to sell…’

        Getting the taxpayer to pay for a house for you to live in permanently already while claiming an out of town accomodation allowance – now that’s a rort.
18. Deadly_NZ 18

    17 December 2010 at 3:03 pm

    I see that least corrupt thing list was in 2007 what will it be now??? most corrupt after the USA
19. Draco T Bastard 19

    17 December 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Electricity prices set to rise next year

    The Domestic Energy Users’ Network says the wholesale price for electricity increased from 8.5 cents per kilowatt hour on December 1 to 23 cents per kilowatt hour two days ago.

    Wasn’t NACTs changes to the power companies supposed to keep prices down? Seems that they failed spectacularly with power almost tripling in price.
    • O2B 19.1

      17 December 2010 at 4:22 pm

      Draco – at least Max Bradford has provided us with ‘choices’. Have to love the spirit of competition and the efficiency of private enterprise.
20. mickysavage 20

    17 December 2010 at 7:47 pm

    Latest Roy Morgan Labour up 2 to 35%, National down 2.5 to 48.5%.

    7% swing still needed but getting better …
    • The Voice of Reason 20.1

      17 December 2010 at 8:27 pm

      Not a seven point swing, surely? 53.5 blue (and partners) vs 46.5 red (and others) means 4 pts would do the trick. An early xmas pressy for ACT, I suspect, with Key gone if Rodders isn’t Epsom’s MP next election. Winnie steady on 3, without doing anything, really. It’s getting kinda interesting, particularly if the Nats continue to piss off more and more sections of society with their unco policy making and lose more and more MP’s to personal corruption.
      • Mickysavage 20.1.1

        17 December 2010 at 10:14 pm

        TVOR

        Right you are. I am thinking major party but with greens looking good and ACT looking terminal there is a decent chance of a centre left Government next time.
        • The Voice of Reason 20.1.1.1

          17 December 2010 at 10:41 pm

          Lab/Green minority Government with confidence and supply support from Winston or the Maori party? Lab/Winston First with Greens and/or the MP support?

          Given that Peters would still be an MP if it wasn’t for National, I think he’d put aside his objections to the Greens for the chance to dance on John Key’s political grave. And some of the sting has gone out of the Maori Party, too. No more HC, no more F&S. So, yeah, I reckon Key’s Xmas trip to Honolulu in 2012 may turn into a permanent vacation.
21. Deadly_NZ 21

    17 December 2010 at 7:52 pm

    This must come under the heading of WTF

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/4467684/Hotchin-says-1000-a-week-not-enough

    I am lucky if I have 400 bucks a week for me ,my partner and a 15 year old walking stomach

    These Pricks just live in LALA land they should have given this rip off prick a boot up the arse not a grand a week..
    • higherstandard 21.1

      17 December 2010 at 8:12 pm

      the solution is simple…… he should die so his corpse could be fed to the pigs, then I could have him as a Xmas ham……. yummy
      • lprent 21.1.1

        17 December 2010 at 8:51 pm

        With a nice Chianti and Lima beans?

        Ummm is it is characteristic what happens to those obsessed by a “higher standards”. Like Lecter, They start eating the ‘perfect food’ (and ancillary bugs)
        • jcuknz 21.1.1.1

          17 December 2010 at 10:58 pm

          The trouble is that us lower folk simply don’t know how expensive it is to run a household which needs a four car garage, swimming pool etc.

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1. The Standard: posted on 16 December 2010 at 5:00 pm

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