Open mike 17/05/2019

90 comments on “Open mike 17/05/2019 ”

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1. Incognito 1

   17 May 2019 at 8:02 am

   Good morning all. Apologies for the delayed OM. Something went technically wrong, it appears.
   • Andre 1.1

     17 May 2019 at 8:57 am

     From the looks of the URL, I'd guess some sort of rupture in the space-time continuum.
     • greywarshark 1.1.1

       17 May 2019 at 12:24 pm

       Did you ever watch Sapphire and Steel Andre?

       I think that a short video series could be made about The Standard, under a different name of course such as Mattenklopper (carpet beater – but sounds funkier). It would be a mixture of Red Dwarf and the Time & Space approach seen in S&S. There are certainly plenty of characters to include, could even add aspects of Douglas Adams.
     • Incognito 1.1.2

       17 May 2019 at 9:50 pm

       Just some scar tissue …
2. mickysavage 2

   17 May 2019 at 8:02 am

   RIP Bob Hawke …

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5mBShX9fdU
   • Ad 2.1

     17 May 2019 at 8:23 am

     Best Labor and labour leader in Australasia.

     A true country-transforming giant.

     And also looked like he had a great time doing it.
   • Tuppence Shrewsbury 2.2

     17 May 2019 at 8:44 am

     we just don’t see politicians of his calibre any more. A true legend deserving of respect, whether you would of voted for him or not
     • Anne 2.2.1

       17 May 2019 at 10:06 am

       … those were the days before the arrival of the 'pc plus' (plus for exaggerated preciousness) brigade. Sure, there was a lot wrong with society that needed to be corrected but, by and large, people could be themselves without fear of being called out for some imagined slight towards a person/persons on what imo are often spurious grounds.
       • greywarshark 2.2.1.1

         17 May 2019 at 11:03 am

         https://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/news-photo/bob-hawke-president-of-the-actu-left-with-sir-peter-abels-news-photo/539999813
         (AUSTRALIA OUT) Bob Hawke, President of the ACTU, left, with Sir Peter Abels, of Thomas National Transport, 26 August 1972.

         A good photo of Bob Hawke when young with Sir Peter Abeles, of trucking firm TNT in Australia, an advisor and experienced businessman.

         Edit:
         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Abeles
         …led the devastation left by World War II, and moved to Australia. After doing small business by selling books and clothing,[2] he quickly befriended George Rockey, a fellow Hungarian immigrant. The pair bought two trucks, which they named “Samson” and “Delilah,” and set up a transport company, “Alltrans.” In 1967, Alltrans merged with Thomas Nationwide Transport, and the combined companies became TNT Ltd…

         In 1979 Abeles entered into an agreement with media mogul Rupert Murdoch to take over Ansett Transport Industries. He served as chief executive and joint managing director from 1982 until 1992. In September 1992 he left TNT to concentrate his efforts on the ailing Ansett, but just two months later he stepped down from the airline as well.

         In addition to his work for TNT and Ansett, Abeles served on the board of the Reserve Bank of Australia, and was chairman of the Australian Cancer Research Foundation.

         Abeles was friends with Bob Hawke and during Hawke’s time as Prime Minister, Abeles was Hawke’s witness to the Kiribilli Agreement of 1988 in which he agreed to hand over the Prime Ministership to Paul Keating if and after Hawke had won the 1990 election.
   • Morrissey 2.3

     18 May 2019 at 10:56 am

     This "good bloke" came to New Zealand in 1980 and expressed amusement at and contempt for our Saturday trading laws, which had not yet been "liberalized" like Australia's. That was an inkling that he was, despite being the head of ACTU, anything but a friend and ally of working people.

     His cowardly and craven behaviour five years later, as Australian Prime Minister, after the Rainbow Warrior bombing, showed he was no friend of human rights protestors either.
     • Sacha 2.3.1

       18 May 2019 at 11:09 am

       Compare the wages of Australian and New Zealand workers, then tell us which political leaders have been their friends and allies over the last few decades. Tripartite bargaining initiated by Hawke is a huge part of that. He contributed far more than any armchair warrior.
       • Morrissey 2.3.1.1

         18 May 2019 at 11:28 am

         What did you think of his support for U.S., French, Israeli and British nuclear weapons?
         • Sacha 2.3.1.1.1

           18 May 2019 at 11:46 am

           That they had no effect on workers' wages.
     • Adrian Thornton 2.3.2

       18 May 2019 at 11:15 am

       It seems that every western political leader gets the privilege of having their history whitewashed and their legacy's rehabilitated, just look at Reagan, or more recently McCain…

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPf3ekPAwgU

       I also believe that the start of Sunday trading was the single worst loss of workers rights in NZ IMO.
     • Tuppence Shrewsbury 2.3.3

       18 May 2019 at 4:15 pm

       honestly Morrissey, you are the most pedantic [person] on the internet.

       are you saying Saturday trading shouldn’t be allowed? When do students work? After they’ve finished their studies each night?

       Bob hawke oversaw the greatest advancement of workers rights and wage growth since the 50’s for the average worker in Australia. And all you can do is sniff about the fact he laughed at our fortress New Zealand antiquarian weekend trading laws.

       I haven’t voted labour in a while. And I never will if you have anything to do with what labour should look like.

       [deleted] oxygen thief. [deleted] All sensation and no substance
       • Morrissey 2.3.3.1

         18 May 2019 at 5:39 pm

         I also "sniffed" about his cowardice and depravity, viz. his failure to support New Zealand after the French state attacked us in 1985, and his support for U.S., British, French and Israeli nuclear terror.
3. Robert Guyton 3

   17 May 2019 at 8:11 am

   "Sometimes I use a heuristic rule for some of the research that the material standard of living is only about 10 percent of what makes us happy."

   https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/what-do-we-mean-by-wellbeing
   • Ad 3.1

     17 May 2019 at 8:20 am

     That's because happiness is totally overrated.
     • Robert Guyton 3.1.1

       17 May 2019 at 9:24 am

       ?

       For the life of me, I can't understand what you mean, Ad.

       I rate happiness highly. Am I overrating it?
       • Tuppence Shrewsbury 3.1.1.1

         17 May 2019 at 9:26 am

         its a societal construct that you need to free yourself from Robert.
         • Robert Guyton 3.1.1.1.1

           17 May 2019 at 9:36 am

           Strive for unhappiness?

           How might one do such a thing, Tuppence?

           Perhaps I need to join the National Party?

           Or if that's not enough, sign on to ACT?
           • Dennis Frank 3.1.1.1.1.1

             17 May 2019 at 12:57 pm

             Neochristian option looks better. Remember christians are born unhappy. Flagellation. Hair shirts. Original sin. Join Alfred & co!

             So the best way to compete in the political arena is to morph the holier than thou traditional elitist stance into unhappier than thou. Winner gets to be closest to God, and unhappiest…
           • Tuppence Shrewsbury 3.1.1.1.1.2

             17 May 2019 at 3:13 pm

             linking happiness to a political party? If that’s happiness just don’t vote
       • Ad 3.1.1.2

         17 May 2019 at 12:50 pm

         You are.

         Endurance and satisfaction are far more useful in life.

         Neither necessarily entail happiness.
         • Drowsy M. Kram 3.1.1.2.1

           17 May 2019 at 1:45 pm

           One of the greatest 'gifts' my parents gave me was to state that "we just want you to be happy." If satisfaction, endurance and being useful bring you happiness, then go for it.

           https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on2H8Qt5fgA
         • greywarshark 3.1.1.2.2

           17 May 2019 at 1:55 pm

           Perhaps stoicism will take us into the future.

           The Stoics differentiated between 'good', 'bad', and 'indifferent' things. The good things include the cardinal virtues wisdom, justice, courage, and self-discipline. The bad things include the opposites of these virtues, namely the four vices folly, injustice, cowardice, and indulgence.

           I like the ten principles. Ayn Rand can go suck.

           https://www.njlifehacks.com/what-is-stoicism-overview-definition-10-stoic-principles/

           Edit : #8 Amor Fati – Love Everything that Happens
           😀 That is very bold. It would require taking on everything and accepting it with some resignation as ‘that’s life, you win some you lose some’ sort of thing. Which would take some gumption. I think there might be a good market for gumption if someone finds out how to bottle it.
           • greywarshark 3.1.1.2.2.1

             17 May 2019 at 2:19 pm

             Being happy – wouldn't it be nice if everyone could be happy. But happiness is a daft wish. As Ad says being satisfied is so much more satisfying.

             Doris Day has just died. She sang this beautifully.

             (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31ifejRMVvg
             • Drowsy M. Kram …

               17 May 2019 at 2:32 pm

               Agreed, it would indeed be very nice if everyone could be happy.

               Knowing that my daft parents wished me happiness was pretty magical – mind you, they might just have been saying that!
     • halfcrown 3.1.2

       17 May 2019 at 1:05 pm

       "That's because happiness is totally overrated."

       As I have said before I don't normally recommend books as we all have our different tastes but I found this book a bit of a fun thing to read. "The Subtle Art Of Not Giving A F*ck" by Mark Manson
4. esoteric pineapples 4

   17 May 2019 at 8:28 am

   "Since last Friday, Honduras has been rocked by growing strikes and demonstrations by teachers, health care workers, high-school and university students and their supporters against legislation that facilitates budget cuts, mass firings and the privatization of public education and the healthcare system.

   The government of Juan Orlando Hernández (known as JOH) —a continuation of the regime installed by a US-backed coup in 2009— mobilized riot police to repress protesters with tear gas, rubber bullets and beatings.

   Since the 2009 coup, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), the Honduran military budget has tripled, to a proportion of the GDP not seen since 1990. This doesn’t include hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid from the Pentagon, which uses its military bases in Honduras as a launching platform for interventions across the region.

   María Dilia Paz, a teacher demonstrating in Tegucigalpa on Monday, described her conditions to TeleSur, “We do everything we can to make ends meet. You know how the electrical service is, and if you are late one day they cut you off. Our children at times go with little food. They don’t get snacks because we don’t have any.”

   The 65,000 teachers in the country get paid hourly wages at poverty levels—between $2.70 and $3.80 per hour of classes.

   The think-tank on external debt Fosdeh has calculated that debt servicing will exceed 45 billion lempiras (US$1.85 billion) this year. This would amount to nearly a third of the total government budget.

   The Finance Secretariat, calculates that business tax exemptions will amount to 37 billion lempiras ($1.5 billion) this year. Meanwhile, the average salary for the 132,000 workers making clothes, auto parts and other products at maquiladoras is $40 per week.

   In other words, in the most unequal country of the Americas, billions are transferred each year from the wealth created by the working class to the financial and corporate elites through debt payments and tax exemptions, while more than 60 percent of the population lives in poverty."

   https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/05/02/hond-m02.html?fbclid=IwAR2zCKf2VDIJcR09lrNVc3du5In0CEpfdQjg4bX6XdbWQT3nXEn_omDYV-0
   • Psycho Milt 4.1

     17 May 2019 at 8:53 am

     The government of Juan Orlando Hernández (known as JOH) —a continuation of the regime installed by a US-backed coup in 2009— mobilized riot police to repress protesters with tear gas, rubber bullets and beatings.

     I'm sure we'll see repeated screenings of the riot police on the TV News tonight, like they do for anything involving Venezuela. /sarc
     • Adrian Thornton 4.1.1

       17 May 2019 at 9:22 am

       Exactly right, it is of little wonder that there is so little buy in most main stream media, especially in respect to their international news, their selective narrative often ends up turning into straight out lies.
   • Dennis Frank 4.2

     17 May 2019 at 8:54 am

     The president was born "the fifteenth of seventeen children". "He gained notoriety in Honduras when Liberal leader Rafael Pineda Ponce described him as a "cipote malcriado" (poorly raised kid)." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Orlando_Hern%C3%A1ndez

     Poor kids are often trouble-makers. In "the 2017 Honduran general election … Hernández was declared the winner by a narrow margin (0.5%), after a reelection campaign widely criticized as fraudulent".

     "In late 2012, 1540 persons were interviewed by ERIC in collaboration with the Jesuit university, as reported by Associated Press. This survey found that 60.3% believed the police were involved in crime, 44.9% had "no confidence" in the Supreme Court, and 72% thought there was electoral fraud in the primary elections of November 2012. Also, 56% expected the presidential, legislative and municipal elections of 2013 to be fraudulent." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honduras

     So Honduras & Venezuela seem similar in respect of cursory incorporation of democratic processes – failure to make them operate in an authentic efficient manner.
     • KJT 4.2.1

       17 May 2019 at 6:31 pm

       Wondered how long it would take for the "Oh. But Venezuela! " to rear it's head.

       Many right wing States around there, which are true totalitarian Dictatorships, and failing, but the media ignores them.
       • Dennis Frank 4.2.1.1

         17 May 2019 at 6:50 pm

         I think it was an Oliver Stone movie, El Salvador, back in the eighties that made it all super-vivid. Those American nuns being raped & murdered by regime thugs (happened some years earlier in real life). But I read the Wikipedia page on Honduran politics earlier today and discovered the country has been run by two establishment parties since the 19th century. They even have proportional representation!
5. You_Fool 5

   17 May 2019 at 8:40 am

   After apparent failures with the Conservatives, the new conservatives, the new new conservatives, the blue-greenish (not really) party, National are having another go at creating a puppet party to pretend they have friends

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12231733

   So, another 0.1% polling ACT party with a gifted seat (assuming the good people of Botany show their sheep mentality and vote as their corporate masters ask them)

   And looks like Ngaro will resign from the National Party, National won't invoke the Waka Jumping bill, Ngaro will create his new party and then stand in Botany next year at the election.

   Bob McCoskrie supports the new party, with such glowing praise as:

   …they may need to hold their noses and vote for a candidate who they normally wouldn't vote for.

   You know you are onto a winner, when someone who should be a very enthusiastic supporter describes you as one would a turd…
   • Dennis Frank 5.1

     17 May 2019 at 9:08 am

     Good analysis & I agree Vernon Tava's enterprise can be reasonably described as blue-green (not really) since perceptions prevail over reality nowadays.

     "Family First's Bob McCoskrie has shared a podium with Ngaro on a number of occasions, as recently as this week. He says there's definitely a gap in the choice facing the voter wanting to cast their ballot for a morally conservative party."

     I guess they'll be considering inviting Israel Folau to cross the ditch. John Key would be keen to support anyone called Israel, so it'd just be a question of which electorate to stand him in. Epsom?

     I reckon the moral conservative vote is a goer – but would it pass the 4% mark set by the last such option? Ngaro taking Botany does of course negate the necessity to achieve the MMP threshold. McCoskrie ought to stand with him to demonstrate that he's willing to put his money where is mouth is. Fundies in parliament would be a source of inanities that could make the Nat leader look good by comparison.
     • greywarshark 5.1.1

       17 May 2019 at 12:33 pm

       Israel the name, Ngaro says he is a Zionist; young Israel is good looking, brown, sporting hero, appears to have integrity and appeals to the Real Man phalanx, would appeal to the diatribe (literally )of eager-beaver Brian T and his followers, appear to be a voice for the poor brown cuzzies not being offered much by Labour Coalition and feeling disillusioned, that's if they had previous illusions anyway – yes there are possibilities there.
       • Dennis Frank 5.1.1.1

         17 May 2019 at 12:52 pm

         Yeah, ticks all the boxes, eh? Someone ought to ask him if he wants to be a small fish in a big pond or a big fish in a small pond (Jesus called himself a fisher of men).
         • greywarshark 5.1.1.1.1

           17 May 2019 at 1:48 pm

           Good fishing theme there. He might have to watch that he doesn't get filleted by those Gnats. And we should beware that there isn't an evolution to piranha biting into our body politic.
6. Andre 6

   17 May 2019 at 8:50 am

   Space pirates!

   https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ted-cruz-space-pirates_n_5cdcfddfe4b0b4728ba30c72

   Yes, this guy really was the GOP's runner-up in 2016.
   • RedLogix 6.1

     17 May 2019 at 9:14 am

     Cruz was actually trying to make a decent point. Conflict in space is a real possibility, especially considering how vulnerable satellites are.
     • Andre 6.1.1

       17 May 2019 at 9:48 am

       If someone is trying to make a decent point in an utterly ridiculous manner, is it still a decent point?

       Yes, satellites are extremely vulnerable. If conflict does break out in space, Kessler Syndrome is a very real possibility that could make many of the most important orbits unusable.

       It would be easy to launch a satellite-killer rocket to create massive clouds of debris, or launch an EMP nuke. Hell, North Korea is just one of many states that probably have the capability for both right now, even Rocket Lab has the launch capability but not the nuke. The time between launch and the shit seriously happening is mere minutes. Then there's all the opportunities for cybermalice against satellites.

       Protection from all of that cannot come from military countermeasures against a launched rocket. It's simply not physically possible. It can only come from international agreement and co-operation. That is the reality that makes the idea of a "Space Force" for protecting satellites utterly ridiculous.
       • Andre 6.1.1.1

         17 May 2019 at 10:19 am

         Here's a piece that gets into the topic in some detail. (big pdf)

         https://media.defense.gov/2019/Jan/16/2002080386/-1/-1/1/190115-F-NV711-0002.PDF
7. greywarshark 7

   17 May 2019 at 8:58 am

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/389336/maori-make-up-more-than-over-40-percent-of-auckland-homeless-report

   The Point In Time Count, organised by the Housing First Collective one night last September, spanned from Wellsford in the north, across to Waiheke Island and south to Waiuku.

   Its findings show of the 800 people estimated to have been living without shelter that night, nearly 43 percent of were Māori, with a similar number of Māori living in temporary accommodation. Māori make up just 11 percent of Auckland's population.

   I remember the closing of an Auckland caravan park because there were too many low income people who were taking drugs and involved in minor crime. Authorities have for too long not taken steps to ensure that the 'strugglers' have a place they can go to at night and be safe. Even if it was extremely simple but was a place where they would be safe, and they need to have their own room. Otherwise they can be attacked by their fellows while under the influence of whatever. It is too late for some of them to be restored to normality, but should be given consideration and experienced social workers able to keep an eye out for their conditions and opportunities.
8. Adrian Thornton 8

   17 May 2019 at 9:24 am

   Why Many Venezuelans Are Still Chavistas

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-fk1N7LnRY
9. greywarshark 9

   17 May 2019 at 9:57 am

   lprent Did the search function get implemented again? It wasn't working this morning as I tried to search under greywarshark.
   • McFlock 9.1

     17 May 2019 at 2:41 pm

     Truly, the moment of clarity is when one searches for oneself only to find nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing

     🙂
     • greywarshark 9.1.1

       17 May 2019 at 3:06 pm

       I've just been looking at Simone de Beauvoir talk about philosophy. She would probably find that very meaningful?

       Actually she was talking about man's purpose in the world and ended up sounding just like Ayn Rand as she said that his purpose is to find his purpose and make his life. Or I think she said that.
     • Drowsy M. Kram 9.1.2

       17 May 2019 at 4:44 pm

       “Clarity is bliss, but bias is what we are.”

       https://gapingsilence.wordpress.com/2016/05/07/on-bbc-partisanship/
     • Incognito 9.1.3

       17 May 2019 at 10:01 pm

       So Zen …
10. Dennis Frank 10

    17 May 2019 at 10:22 am

    Oz election tomorrow not looking good for ScoMo: "As for the polling, the Liberal/National coalition that governs Australia has been behind in pretty much every two-party poll against the Labor opposition throughout his tenure. You might recall, falling behind Labor in repeated polls was why the Liberals got rid of the last guy too. Among the minor parties, the Greens are looking at around a 10% share, and One Nation around 5%, under two variations of a single transferable vote system. That could get either the few seats needed to chip a coalition partner over the line." https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/17-05-2019/will-it-be-scomo-or-shorten-what-to-watch-for-in-tomorrows-aussie-election/

    "The racism in this election campaign has been more muted. Sydney Uni professor Mary Crock told RNZ that it might actually be that the Christchurch attacks have led to the wildly xenophobic rhetoric being toned down."

    "Strangely for Australia, climate change and the environment has emerged as a major issue for many voters. Of course, parts of the country are in the grip of the worst droughts in living memory, the boiling hot bits of the country are getting even hotter, there are crazy floods, wildfires, big cyclones, the Great Barrier Reef is dying, and all the rest of it. But still, it’s unusual for Australia to actually notice that the land is trying to kill them – they’re just so used to it."

    "And another climate change denying former PM, Tony Abbott, is facing defeat in his previously safe seat of Waringah. He might lose to a former Olympic skier called Zali Steggall, who is running as an independent largely on environmental issues."
11. greywarshark 11

    17 May 2019 at 11:20 am

    bwaghorn

    You were saying about forestry interests wiping out normal farming and the communities that exist rurally. I thought of you this morning when the interview was about that. Did you hear it?

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/389401/fears-of-catastrophic-impact-of-prime-farmland-being-sold-for-forestry (detailed print report)

    Audio: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018695488/forestry-gold-rush-underway-in-wairoa
    • bwaghorn 11.1

      17 May 2019 at 11:57 am

      Nz farmers can not compete against foreign buyers buying up our farm land so they can keep polluting. The irony is ove heard farmers are not allowed to plant their own trees on their own land to offset their emmisions.
      • greywarshark 11.1.1

        17 May 2019 at 12:11 pm

        Tell me more bw. What prevents them – is it Council rles, regional economic agency rules, is it no tax exemptions for land not profitable? I don't understand.
12. marty mars 12

    17 May 2019 at 11:24 am

    Good work these two. Great to see intelligent and socially minded farmers doing their bit and leading the way for their less caring and smart brethren.

    Farmers need to avoid ego and arrogance if they want to keep their social licence to operate as they come under increased pressure to reduce their environmental impact.

    Dealing with that impact was hurting the industry, award-winning farmer Adrian Ball told dairy farmers at Waikato Federated Farmers' dairy section annual meeting.

    "It's us letting ourselves down. It's almost a little bit of a touch of arrogance – if we own the land, we have the right to do it – we don't."

    Adrian and wife Pauline run Dennley Farms near Tīrau and were supreme winners of this year's Waikato Farm Environment Awards. He outlined how they had transformed their farm business from a highly intensive dairy operation to a dairy, beef and finishing farm over the past 16 years.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/112624389/letting-go-of-ego-achieves-big-environmental-gains-for-trau-farmer
    • greywarshark 12.1

      17 May 2019 at 12:15 pm

      Yes good, from what you say mm widening out in the business they know about. Still with cows, but in a more sustainable manner. And they say they were highly intensive dairying so hope that is in the past for their dairying now. Come back to a system where the cows are cared for animals not just money on hooves.
    • Sabine 12.2

      17 May 2019 at 10:13 pm

      He also rejected talk of of the 'urban rural divide' as a media myth, labeling it "a crock of s…."

      could not agree more with the guy. it is a media myth driven by some politican and 'stake holders' as it feeds their narrative.
13. adam 13

    17 May 2019 at 11:50 am

    How many young working class men and women are going to die for these crazy idiots in charge in the USA?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUC-ZnMdsfQ&ab_channel=SecularTalk
    • greywarshark 13.1

      17 May 2019 at 12:18 pm

      Any excuse for USA to meddle in other country's affairs. Shades of having to invade because of the production of Weapons of Mass Destruction. What are they trying to protect though – their own country is going to rack and ruin. Way to go world!
      • greywarshark 13.1.1

        17 May 2019 at 12:37 pm

        And that saying about the old grey men being generals sending the young ones off to be injured and die to further the schemes for advantage of the old.
        • McFlock 13.1.1.1

          17 May 2019 at 2:49 pm

          I wouldn't mind so much it it were generals doing the sending. At least they lived it, even if they forget.

          Bolton was another Vietnam evader, just like dolt45. One of the biggest US hawks for years – but only with other people's blood.
          • JohnSelway 13.1.1.1.1

            17 May 2019 at 2:54 pm

            Unless you’ve done the service yourself you should have fuck all to do with starting wars.

            The US has been gunning for Iran since the 70’s
            • McFlock 13.1.1.1.1.1

              17 May 2019 at 3:10 pm

              Some generals are hawks (LeMay wanted to start WW3), but I have no time for Rambos like Bolton gaggin' for it.
          • joe90 13.1.1.1.2

            17 May 2019 at 4:08 pm

            Surprising how many chickenhawk hall of famers are still around.

            http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

            https://web.archive.org/web/20110604160503/http://www.nhgazette.com/chickenhawks/
    • Sabine 13.2

      17 May 2019 at 9:00 pm

      as many as they can sign up and if that does not work anymore they call the draft.

      simple as that.

      And chances are they have no issue going there. In saying that Senator Cotton of Arkansas – in my opinion someone who is very dangerous/smart/outwardly evangelic religious creep who might have a chance at the golden throne when the orange turd gets dispatched by the republican party (they will only keep him for as long as he serves their purpose) – said that it would need only two strikes, the first one and the last one.

      Nukes, overwhelming air power, and every time someone says peep drop some more bombs.

      no soldiers needed. none what so ever cause the bombs can be directed with a joy stick from anywhere.

      https://twitter.com/FiringLineShow/status/1128393270458048512?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1128407117487050757&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstory%2F2019%2F5%2F14%2F1857682%2F–Sen-Tom-Cotton-suggests-war-with-Iran-would-be-a-cakewalk
      • Exkiwiforces 13.2.1

        17 May 2019 at 9:48 pm

        Tell him, he is dreaming and get off the dope as well or whatever he's been smoking.
        • Sabine 13.2.1.1

          17 May 2019 at 9:56 pm

          look him up.

          He served in Iraq, he is a senator. He is not smoking, and he is deadly serious.

          this is the thing with the current administration, everyone only focuses on teh orange shitshow, they do not focus on the men the orange fuckwit has surround himself with, the members of the senate that will sign any thing so as long as it serves them and 'owns' the libs and they have wanted to go to war with iran since Ayatolla Khomeni overthrew Mohammad Reza Sha Pahlavi and send him packing into exile. I watched that stuff go down life on TV, it was riveting.

          And honestly they will drop a few bombs, and may i remind you that the only country to ever have used nukes is the US, and the orange turd asked why the US does not use them darn nukes. Also oil. Also elections. Also the tiny mushroom shaped penis needs something to feel big.

          Prepare for a shitshow.
          • Exkiwiforces 13.2.1.1.1

            17 May 2019 at 11:22 pm

            Yes i know who this muppet is, he is dreaming if airpower alone can win a land warfare and it can't no matter what you throw at it including a few cans of instant sunshrine then no one really wins unless you are into grow in the dark glass.

            When I was still in the RAAF i did 3 papers at the RAAF Airpower Centre and where i upset a few silver spoons/Kunckle Heads/ knob jockeys who think like this clown that Land Base Airpower alone can win a war at Sea or on the Land and it can't as you still need boots on the ground or ships on the sea to exploit the opening that either Land or Sea based Airpower has achive. In other words Airpower is enabler which allows both Land and Sea power the room for freedom of maneuver to get on with the job.

            Yes the Yanks have been waiting a long time to have a crack at Iran after what old mate did to their mate and especially the storming of the embassy and, what happen during their cock up with Op Eagle Claw.

            I think "shit show" is going to an under statement by a country mile. No sure if you have seen my comments on this?

            If you want a betting tip? start buying Oil Futures and Gold etc as i think the return is going to a awful lot better than the Stockmarket and also watch the rate of inflation go up with the price of oil (remember the two oil shocks). Remember what Winnie said during the last election about a possible down turn in the global economy next's term of government? Well looks like he was on the money.
            • Sabine 13.2.1.1.1.1

              17 May 2019 at 11:33 pm

              oh i don't say they can win.

              they could not win korea, vietnam, iraq and they will not win iran.

              but they can wreak havoc, poison this planet, upset 1.5 billion muslims and fling all shit all over the planet and mike live misery for a few billion here and there. .

              I am not the betting kind, and i am not an investor. I am lucky to have few wants, not many needs and had a good life so won't be missing much when the shitshow starts.

              We are living in interesting times.
              • Exkiwiforces …

                18 May 2019 at 1:08 am

                Peer to Peer they will shitted it in, but if the side hits the US weak points aka body bag count etc and goes to ground then we well see a rerun of Nam, Iraq and the Gan because they can't fight a COIN type of warfare and they really still haven't fully understood it either from top down. As they only know how to fight a Peer to Peer war and the way that dump takes advice they won't have a hope in hell. I think Phase 1 and possibly Phase 2 of the conflict would go according to plan, but after they have kick the door in then would get rather interesting to see if they have learnt anything IRT COIN warfare from Iraq and the Gan.

                As Von Moltke the elder once said "No plan of operations extends with certainty beyond the first encounter with the enemy's main strength" or in lay mans terms "No plan survives first contact with the enemy" and this less known one "Strategy is a system of expedients"

                If they can't clear the house, but only clear a few rooms or only a few floors then they are screwed and god only knows what that means for the rest of us long term?

                I'm sorry for throwing my betting tips (my black humor coming out hence why i'm back in PTSD ward again here in Sydney) in for a giggle when the RWNJ types start complaining about inflation and the cost of fuel etc.

                I just hope the team can get the troops out of the MER including the UN members quickly if the shit hits the fan and say the training team mandate ends on the 30th of June. The sooner the better the Aus and NZ troops are out of that shit hole the better.

                Yes, we are now living in interesting times and you are right about the muslims, they are going to go off like runaway .50cal HMG or like chain reaction in a nuclear weapon system going off aka the gift that keeps on giving as we called it on the CBRND Recon cse which i did about 10yrs ago.
    • Exkiwiforces 13.3

      17 May 2019 at 9:45 pm

      Whatever he's been smoking has gone to his head or destroyed a few more brain cells that's if he any from the start with.

      Anyway someone needs to tell this muppet (he actually reminds me of one the muppets) he is dreaming if all thinks that he just needs 120k troops to knock off Iran! He's going to need about 5x that number as kicking in the door is one thing, but holding on to the house is another thing.

      Remember the Iraq war folks when the Yankie coalition invaded Iraq with too few troops during the invasion and during post invasion?

      If this attack/ invasion into Iran does go ahead, its going to make Iraq and the Gan like a walk in the park. Remember the last time some joker decided to invade Iran and look what happen to him or poor old Jimmy after Op Eagle Claw.
14. observer 14

    17 May 2019 at 12:17 pm

    David Seymour gets nasty and personal with Golriz, and Judith Collins calls him out:

    https://twitter.com/JudithCollinsMP/status/1129150240718696453
15. Poission 15

    17 May 2019 at 12:22 pm

    numerology and methods of mass contractions.

    This is a stunning turnaround, with an increase of almost 2000 on the last census, and we believe our method of calculation is one that could be spread out right across the country.

    We have based our calculations on scientific analysis of volumetric data obtained via our sewerage plants, and extrapolated our pile of information to come up with an incredibly accurate and definitive population assumption.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/southland-top-stories/112795610/we-prefer-our-own-pile-of—-information
    • greywarshark 15.1

      17 May 2019 at 12:40 pm

      Sounds like just another farming smartarse from a small area with a large level of medium competence.
      • McFlock 15.1.1

        17 May 2019 at 3:13 pm

        Although the methodology described would actually be workable, if one could factor in changing gastroenteritis levels or increased fibre in the average diet.
        • Pingau 15.1.1.1

          17 May 2019 at 5:57 pm

          … or figs
16. A 16

    17 May 2019 at 2:01 pm

    "In a stern statement, the bank's board, headed by former prime minister Sir John Key, comes under fire for attesting to something which was not correct. "

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112033446/reserve-bank-censures-anz
    • Blazer 16.1

      17 May 2019 at 4:28 pm

      the audacity…5 fucking years!

      '

      ANZ called the issue a "mistake", and expressed disappointment.

      "Once the mistake was discovered, ANZ New Zealand promptly escalated the matter to its board and reported the issue to the Reserve Bank," ANZ said in a written statement.
      • One Two 16.1.1

        17 May 2019 at 8:38 pm

        Financial regulators are as much part of the industry as the financial institutions themselves…

        Auditors and consultancies who operate in a compliance function are also part of the industry. They are paid by the banks to perform compliance functions…
17. Morrissey 17

    17 May 2019 at 5:55 pm

    God-DAMN it, who made this fool a Cabinet minister?

    RNZ National, Friday 17 May 2019, 5:54 p.m.

    Just heard a disastrous interview with Carmel Sepuloni on RNZ National. She came across as arrogant and evasive.
    • Peter 17.1

      17 May 2019 at 9:58 pm

      Was that the interview I heard which was a normal interview until the interviewer asked some questions to which Sepuloni said that that wasn't what she had come on to be interviewed about or had not agreed to be interviewed about?

      The interviewer persisted and persisted while Sepuloni peripherally answered some bits and repeated saying it wasn't what she was there to answer questions on.

      Sepuloni didn't come across as arrogant and evasive. She came across as naive. She should have repeatedly said she wasn't answering any question at all about the matter.

      The interviewer was rude and arrogant. Ministers must be accountable but having protocols and working out what's reasonable and what's just smart-arse opportunism is obviously beyond you.

      When the interviewer repeatedly asked what said she said she wouldn't talk to, Sepuloni should have either hung up or told the interviewer to fuck off. Then you would have been on here bitching about her being arrogant and evasive and calling for her to be sacked.
      • Morrissey 17.1.1

        18 May 2019 at 10:51 am

        I agree with your opinion of Lisa Owen, the interviewer. I have scant respect for her. However, substandard journalists are a fact of life, and a competent politician has to be able to interact with them without making herself look incompetent—or, as you rightly put it in this case, naive.

        I thought her refusal to answer the questions of the importuning Owen did make Sepuloni look both arrogant and evasive; she lacked the panache to put Owen in her place with authority.
18. greywarshark 18

    17 May 2019 at 6:58 pm

    Thinking about the Ministry for Vulnerable Children and Young People, Teenagers and their Families -Oranga Tamariki. Why does it have a Maori name? Is it supposed to seem friendly and culturally understanding to Maori? Why isn't it just a Ministry for Children as all are vulnerable when young? Is it meant to convey that parents and children do not receive any support unless they are classified as vulnerable? And why is that they are behaving in such a frightening way to Maori? If government want to provide a wrap-around service to help those who need it, then if they do their job properly, there would be no taking of babies away from mothers.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/389285/not-enough-mental-health-support-for-families-whose-children-are-taken-by-the-state

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/389007/mother-s-day-hui-to-discuss-oranga-tamariki-s-removal-of-newborn-babies

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018694569/children-s-commissioner-whole-of-nz-infected-with-racism

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/386072/oranga-tamariki-will-need-extra-resources-to-care-for-kids-longer

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018688988/oranga-tamariki-two-years-on-what-s-changed

    The Chief Executive, Grainne Moss is Irish-born, UK, New Zealand. She was a champion swimmer. Fits my bias against sports people in areas where an understanding is required of the needs of large numbers of people who will be affected by executive decisions.

    http://www.ssc.govt.nz/media-release-ministry-vulnerable-children-oranga-tamariki-chief-executive-appointed

    Mrs Moss will become the acting Chief Executive of the Ministry for Vulnerable Children, Oranga Tamariki from 5 September 2016, initially part-time then full-time from 10 October 2016. She will then become Chief Executive for a five year term once the Ministry is formally established on 1 April 2017.

    Mrs Moss doesn't seem to have trained or worked with children and is not from our culture. She has had a father who was a prison Governor. She has had the generic business background to manage a large department. But there is a need to actually have an interest and knowledge of social work and how to work with young people from impoverished backgrounds.

    I hope her Catholic upbringing in Ireland will not lead to seeking the efficiency that was found suitable for those not proving acceptable to society who worked at the Magdalena laundries system which operated in the Irish social system right up till 1996.

    An authoritarian background, on the austere side perhaps. 3. What did your parents teach you?
    A very strong work ethic. Mum was head of a Catholic nursing home where I worked from age 16. She worked me pretty hard and showed no favouritism.

    My father was governor of a prison with lots of IRA prisoners. As a Catholic working for the government, he had high security. At one point he had a bomb-alarmed car and bulletproof vest. But he had a reputation for very fair adjudicating. It didn't matter if you were a Catholic or a Protestant prisoner, you'd get exactly the same treatment for the same behaviour. I grew up in Ireland very conscious of people's religion. What's fascinating in New Zealand is I don't have that thought.

    NZs would rather employ someone from overseas with generic qualifications than a trained NZr.? 4. How did you wind up working in forestry in Tokoroa?
    New Zealanders are much more interested in your transferable skills than in the UK. I'd put my CV out and a bank offered me a job. I'd never worked in a bank but they said: "You've managed teams, budgets, significant projects and you've got a track record of delivery. That's 90 per cent of the job, the other 10 per cent you'll pick up." My eyes were completely opened. I'd always worked in health and never realised working in a different sector was possible. I wanted to develop my commercial skills so I went to Carter Holt Harvey.

    Smart and firm, and good with systems and people management and logs.

    6. By the age of 32 you were head of forestry operations for the central North Island. What was your toughest challenge?
    The relationship between the Kinleith Pulp and Paper mill and forestry had been completely toxic for years, with both parties trying to get one over the other. So for about six months they were absolutely horrible to me. They sent me nasty emails and called me names. I was a monkey and they wanted to talk to the organ grinder. I'd go to meetings and there would be 15 of them and one of me but I just kept turning up and being nice. It's hard to fight someone who doesn't want to fight back, so eventually they had to change their behaviour.

    Interesting. How the people with money work hard, and get their creds.

    7. You then went to Switzerland to do an MBA with honours. Was it worthwhile?

    It cost me $100,000 but it was worth every penny. It helped my confidence to be benchmarked with the best in the world. It's disappointing that I needed that, but I think subconsciously I did. Interestingly, there weren't many women on the course but they never put less than three women in a group. Research shows that if you have one woman in a group she becomes the princess, two women will collaborate or compete with each other, whereas three will result in normal group dynamics.

    The mother of four runs Bupa (aged care homes till 2015) the country's largest aged-care home provider….

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11492534
    • Hanswurst 18.1

      17 May 2019 at 8:10 pm

      Thinking about the Ministry for Vulnerable Children and Young People, Teenagers and their Families -Oranga Tamariki. Why does it have a Maori name?

      Why shouldn't it? Other ministries do.
      • greywarshark 18.1.1

        17 May 2019 at 10:30 pm

        Sort of a rhetorical question. The government likes to think of Maori as being the big problem in NZ and pakeha and others being occasional problems. Of course they are bigger than their proportion of the popn.
19. Eco Maori 19

    19 May 2019 at 5:58 am

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

    https://youtu.be/94dBVPpymac
20. Eco Maori 20

    19 May 2019 at 10:27 am

    https://youtu.be/qQfetkoGrpU
21. Eco Maori 21

    19 May 2019 at 6:32 pm

    Kia ora Newshub.

    Looks like a carbon pro government elected in Australia.

    If you ignore a problem it goes away even though it is still unsolved Paddy.

    Wow huge tornado in Missouri Nebraska and Kanzas that's global warming.

    Rail is the most efficient way to to transport most goods less carbon and cost.

    That's a cool exabishion of Scots base in Antarctica I'm taking a big interest in history now cool.

    Ka kite ano
22. Eco Maori 22

    20 May 2019 at 8:23 am

    Kia ora The AM Show.

    Acc is not the same organisation it used to be it no longer put the people need first it puts it ballance.

    The Australian elections was lost by Labour they were looking like winning for months and all ready counted his chicken not good.

    The $320 million to combat domestic violence is a great start to fixing all the tamariki lives fixed. Poverty of THESE people is the driver behind domestic violence that's it but this is another ambulance at the bottom of the hill.???????? scenario.

    Shane just because you are winning in this system what about the 80 %, of your whanau struggling is this system providing a good life for them its OKs you can put on your big hakari.

    I watched all the Game of Thrones series its a Awsome movie series.

    Ka kite ano

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