Open mike 18/09/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 18th, 2020 - 62 comments
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62 comments on “Open mike 18/09/2020 ”

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  1. Ed 1
    18 September 2020 at 6:32 am

    We don't know how lucky we are.

    The World Health Organisation is now warning of 'alarming' Covid transmission across Europe, Canada is losing control of the virus and the UK government's incompetency means they don't have an effective track and trace system.

    Meanwhile, Dr John Campbell reports on a vaccine the Chinese have developed in conjunction with the UAE. Sounds highly encouraging..

    "The UAE has approved the urgent use of China-developed COVID-19 vaccine after testing on 31,000 volunteers. Phase I and II results in June were successful. 100 percent of volunteers were generating antibodies after two doses in 28 days. Phase 3 started on 16th July. 100,000 injections have been given so far, with no adverse reactions, no infections."

    The part of the video is at 26:45

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqZLMoLvhgk

    • greywarshark 1.1
      18 September 2020 at 10:59 am

      Covid 19 is getting in the way of the proper destiny of western nations and Swiss gnomes et al which is to make money and pretend to be civilised, educated, intelligent and have highly developed intellects, being cultured and sophisticated. This was thought about Europe which brought forward the Enlightenment but then too recently, also the most awful and barbarous behaviour in its culling of human beings sent to slaughter in their millions.

      We must not blindly follow other western nations wherever they may lead, and if any doubted that, the way they have handled the Covid-19 pandemic shows the thin cover of committed enlightened behaviour that decorates the surface of the real framework of their societies.

      There is much that is good in the culture we adhere to, but thoughtful people need to be aware of the fragility of a good culture, and keep the memory to the fore, of the fictional hero of Ian McKellen's Gandalf saying "You shall not pass".

      • Tiger Mountain 1.1.1
        18 September 2020 at 11:56 am

        Well put greywarshark.

        There is more support around for ‘closing off the Mountain pass’ than pundits and business lobbyists might imagine, or enjoy contemplating.

        • greywarshark 1.1.1.1
          18 September 2020 at 12:35 pm

          I refer to my 7 below with a bit from Chris Trotter. He is thinking about how many might want to close off, and how far they might go in trying to limit things agreed as unsatisfactory and other knotty matters.

          • greywarshark 1.1.1.1.1
            18 September 2020 at 1:36 pm

            And thinking about Europe and how concerned about humanity they are, putting Greece into austerity and hardship in the way they handled their financial crisis? Greece also has the cost of a refugee crisis, and has Europe helped them with this? It is ongoing, and particularly hard on the people of Lesbos Island. Recently the crowded refugee camp experienced a devastating fire.
            https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/02/aid-workers-face-growing-hostility-lesbos-200214215806963.html

            Germany is going to take 1500 of the refugees.
            “They will all leave,” the civil protection minister, Michalis Chrysochoidis, told the Guardian. “Of the roughly 12,000 refugees here currently, I foresee 6,000 being transferred to the mainland by Christmas and the rest by Easter. The people of this island have gone through a lot. They’ve been very patient.”...
            Chrysochoidis, who flew into Lesbos to help oversee relief efforts, welcomed reports that Germany was prepared to take in as many as 1,500 people from Moria.

            The German coalition government on Tuesday agreed to take in a total of 1,553 people from 408 families whose protected status has been confirmed by Greek authorities, Angela Merkel’s spokesperson said. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/15/after-fire-greece-vows-to-empty-lesbos-of-all-refugees-by-easter

            These people haven't gone to Greece for a holiday but are fleeing terrible conditions in their home countries:
            https://helprefugees.org/volunteer-blog/moria-february-2020/
            Most camp inhabitants have walked thousands of miles to stand at Turkey’s western shore, usually travelling under the cover of darkness in order to avoid detection. Smugglers then charge large sums to escort them across the Mitilini Strait to the northern beaches of Lesbos in various water crafts. Adverse seas and the fact that many of these boats are not fit for the crossing has resulted in countless lives lost in this corner of the Mediterranean.

            Many have had several attempts, previously having been thwarted by border police or abandoning due to dangerous sea conditions. The position and state of the vessel will determine whether it is turned back towards Turkey or guided to Lesbos, establishing a sort of high stakes hide and seek. In extreme instances refugees have sabotaged themselves by puncturing and sinking their own boats in a desperate bid to be rescued and so complete this step of their journey. When the Lesbos shore is finally reached life jackets are discarded and lie piled on some of the islands’ northern beaches. Their vivid tones contrasting the native landscape as a silent narrative of this reality.

            Want to help:
            Kitrinos healthcare – a British charity providing medical care:
            https://www.kitrinoshealthcare.org/

            Movement on the ground – responding to humanitarian crises worldwide:
            https://movementontheground.com/

            Together for Better days – an NGO bringing humanity and compassion into the delivery of humanitarian aid:
            https://www.betterdays.ngo/

            Refugees 4 refugees – offers sustainable support, humanitarian assistance and emergency response to refugees arriving on the shores of the Greek islands – Lesbos and Samos:
            https://refugee4refugees.gr/

            • greywarshark 1.1.1.1.1.1
              18 September 2020 at 2:12 pm

              And a spinoff from Brexit. The French were I think talking about the UK paying 5 million pounds I think for their services in keeping migrants from leaving their shores for Brit. Presumably that was thumbs down and now they are clearing their shores of these pesky people. This from The Telegraph for those able to receive it.

              The pandemic and Brexit have drawn much of the attention away from what would otherwise be a highly significant crisis – the crossing of the Channel by migrants in small boats. Our reporter spent the day at sea and became the first journalist to document what had long been suspected: that the French Navy is shepherding migrant boats into UK waters and abandoning them.

    • mpledger 1.2
      18 September 2020 at 3:15 pm

      100,000 injections and no adverse reactions is a load of crap.

      There is no way 100,000 people were perfectly healthy for however long they were followed-up after the injection. Even the safest vaccines have some side effects for some people – swollen arm at the injection site, mild fevers etc. Adverse events even happen under placebo treatment.

  2. Tricledrown 2
    18 September 2020 at 9:10 am

    The Hologram/ R#$@%r Seymour's latest rant on how the govt is wasting 10 of billions of taxpayer dollars every year.Shot himself in the foot saying they will cut $750 million a year in spending less than Nationals $800 million cut in spending.

    Dr Wesselbaum Otago University economist says in these times it's an all or nothing approach,on the fiscal side spend ,don't worry about a few % points keep the economy flowing don't cut its blood supply when the patient is hemoraging.

    National and ACT's policies would damage our economy as happened in the early 1930's and 1990's when conservative govts fixation with balancing budgets and only letting the foot off 6 months out from an election then cutting the other 21/2 years ie Ruthenomics.

  3. Pataua4life 3
    18 September 2020 at 9:38 am

    Genuine Question.

    How do the people of the old Dunedin South Electorate feel with an Aucklander been gifted the nomination?

    As an Aucklander i go down to Dunedin lots for work and they are salt of earth people down there but i would imagine this has gone down like a cup of cold sick?

  4. Peter ChCh 4
    18 September 2020 at 10:09 am

    Oh how I miss the 'good old days', when crime was low, our society was Christian based, morals were high, no pornography, the Police held in high regard and we directed our violence against those horrible commies in Vietnam.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12365950

    Why DO the Police wait until all these sick pedos are in the Rest Home before they act? I worked for two years at the Diocese of **** as Financial Officer. Never met such bunch of bigoted, racist, nasty scum as I met there. And of course they were all respectable members of the community and staunch members of the church.

    And some people complain of Destiny Church, yet I bet that for all their sins they have helped more people than the above Diocese ever did.

  5. satty 5
    18 September 2020 at 10:47 am

    National's answer to everything… tax cuts. Who would have thought?

    So far we had:

    • Build even more roads than Labour
    • Tough on crime
    • Continue pollution
    • Tax cuts

    Really inspirational.

    • Pat 5.1
      18 September 2020 at 11:00 am

      and not just tax cuts but tax cuts for those who need them least and little for those who need them most

      https://www.interest.co.nz/news/107118/national-walks-away-debt-target-committing-income-tax-cuts-16-months-and-temporary-tax

      • satty 5.1.1
        18 September 2020 at 11:09 am

        Yes, of course. Only for the (mainly white, male, entitled) middle class people. They have to strengthen their essential voter base.

    • RedBaronCV 5.2
      18 September 2020 at 11:32 am

      Straight out of the US republican play book. Temporary tax cuts for the lower end for a few months but permanent tax cuts for the favoured. No mention of what services will be cut to provide this. Or do they intend to blow the Cullen fund early? Or reduce the minimum wage because "hey these people are paying less tax".

      But this gives Labour some wriggle room when they are back in. They can rejig the thresholds and introduce higher rate bands at the top to skew the distribution back. And they need to grow a spine. Tax cuts at the higher end have been getting enshrined. And our public spending on infrastructure is constantly being kicked down the road. They should promise to thump it up immediately so that we can maintain our public services by what has been cut in the national years.

      • Patricia Bremner 5.3.1
        18 September 2020 at 1:52 pm

        So tax cuts for the wealthy then?

        Those people won't need it for expenses so it won't get spent.

        Another failed "Trickle Down" theory.

        • Draco T Bastard 5.3.1.1
          18 September 2020 at 7:31 pm

          Tax cuts are always for the wealthy even if they're only on the lowest bracket.

          1. The wealthy will get the tax cut it self and
          2. The wealthy will then put prices up so that the needy will have to spend the extra cash they have straight into the hands of the wealthy

          Its not a Trickle Down theory at all, its Trickle Up, it works really well and National damn well know it.

          They just dress it up as Trickle Down so that people will accept it.

      • Andre 5.3.2
        18 September 2020 at 2:09 pm

        Judthulhu sez nobody has ever taxed their way out of recession – but both Clinton and Obama raised the top marginal tax rates early in their presidencies as the US was coming out of recession, both leading to long sustained economic booms.

    • Wensleydale 5.4
      18 September 2020 at 1:58 pm

      This is National being National. They're like a covers band that only knows three songs — roads, tax cuts, stick it to the gangs… and their encore is kicking beneficiaries. The only thing I find consistently surprising is that people keep voting for them. They're fucking hopeless.

    • Cinny 5.5
      18 September 2020 at 3:03 pm

      Yup, and the ones who really need help miss out.

      I'd much rather stay on 30% and have it pumped into health and education than get an extra $45 a week.

      To be honest I'd probably just waste it on takeaway food for two kids. That would be pointless considering it could go towards helping many instead of just two.

  6. swordfish 6
    18 September 2020 at 10:54 am

    Anniversary of the Savage Govt's First State House Opening … a personal memoir

    https://sub-zero-politics.blogspot.com/2020/09/first-state-house-anniversary-personal.html

    • greywarshark 6.1
      18 September 2020 at 11:15 am

      Very interesting Swordfish. This story about the constant work for the betterment of NZ society is heartening and amazing. I am aware that you get nothing if you do nothing and to see so much of what was achieved by this constant work and commitment to left causes, now left to roll over a cliff just breaks my heart. We must conserve what we have left that is good for the present times, and continue the work.

      I am interested in the last para. I have Robin Hyde's books but have yet to really get into her life. So Sub-zero please write away and let us have more. She, Margaret Moth, Ettie Rout, Margaret Thorn are luminaries that have lodged in my mind. Don't know of Phyllis Symons; and 'tooting tradition'?

      Two last items of interest … seeing I'm obviously intent on heading down this narcissistic road of forebear hero-worship … social historians & the Literati may be interested to know that my grandmother was a longtime friend of Poet/Novelist/Journalist Iris Wilkinson (aka Robin Hyde) & my Mother has one or two very early memories of Iris … my grandmother was also the cousin of Phyllis Symons, murdered in 1931, buried near Mt Victoria Tunnel & frequently discussed in the media over recent years in the context of the tooting tradition. Really interesting – and quite poignant – details & social history surrounding this story that are known only to the family … something I intend to write on in the near future.

      • swordfish 6.1.1
        18 September 2020 at 11:32 am

        Cheers, Grey.

        This is a good summary for the uninitiated:

        http://undergroundhistory.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-tragedy-of-phyllis-symons.html

        Comes up in the media regularly in relation to the Mt Vic Road Tunnel's Tooting Tradition in Wellington. Phyllis's youngest sister only died quite recently & she had some really poignant family detail about the case & its rather awful fallout.

        About 15 years ago, I also did some quite extensive research through contemporary newspaper stories on the trial (and was able to give previously unknown details to Phylis’s younger sister).

        They were a very bright & attractive family … the press were clearly particularly taken with Phyllis’s oldest sister at the time … poor Phyllis was considered the somewhat slow & less pretty one.

      • Patricia Bremner 6.1.2
        18 September 2020 at 2:05 pm

        Thanks Swordfish, a very interesting read.

  7. greywarshark 7
    18 September 2020 at 12:16 pm

    Chris Trotter is doing some 'grinding' on our future political leanings and learnings. Here are two paras where he poses questions to dismiss if you don't want to be troubled and uncomfortable.

    Increasingly, this will be the choice confronting those coming of age in the 2020s. Embrace Neoliberalism’s belief in racial and sexual equality; adopt its secular and scientific world view; and cultivate the technocratic, multicultural, global outlook required of those who keep the machinery of hyper-capitalism humming.

    Or, throw your support behind the defenders of the national people’s community; agitate for an end to free-trade and globalisation; and use any means necessary (including violence) to uphold the social, sexual and racial hierarchies of your ancestors. That is to say – become a fascist.

    Neither of these options has anything to offer the poor. Neither of them will restrain the rich. Neither will do anything like enough, or anything at all, to combat climate change. Neoliberalism believes itself to be rational. Fascism claims to reflect the natural order. But the followers of both ideologies remain content to be carried on the backs of human-beings whose rights and aspirations they do not consider worthy of serious regard. It was to these people that the socialists used to speak.

    https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2020/09/uncomfortable-choices.html

    • McFlock 7.1
      18 September 2020 at 1:51 pm

      Talk about a bullshit dichotomy.

      For one thing, the concept that neoliberalism means a belief in anything other than complete economic deregulation seems a bit of a stretch, let alone seeing Roger Douglas as a hero of gender and ethnic equality.

      • greywarshark 7.1.1
        18 September 2020 at 2:07 pm

        But does it show that neoliberalism as one side that will appear to encompass all including the woke? That seems to me that is the point of the overview.

        • McFlock 7.1.1.1
          18 September 2020 at 2:24 pm

          Well, no, that paragraph clearly says "Neoliberalism’s belief in racial and sexual equality". Beliefs in equity/equality have as much to do with neoliberalism as the colour of your coat has to do with your height. He might as well say "tall people wear green coats" as "neoliberalism believes in equality".

          There are socialists who are awake, too.

          • greywarshark 7.1.1.1.1
            18 September 2020 at 2:59 pm

            Perhaps he should have said neoliberalism's use of racial and sexual equality beliefs as a rallying point for attention, and business creation and profit. For instance, business was able to make money out of the psychedelic movement, and loves anything new. The masses get excited, and business sells them Tshirts!

            At the moment the BBC head is setting all sorts of new standards in line with current young adult obsessions. It is like the BBC is bowing to the wave of outrage that has arisen in the last few years.

            • McFlock 7.1.1.1.1.1
              18 September 2020 at 3:11 pm

              But even that wouldn't have suited his dichotomy.

              To use an older terminology, it's possible to be economically neoliberal and socially conservative.

              Nationalist and neoliberal don't go together happily, but the nats show that the two can work together for a time.

              But nowhere in the two trotter paragraphs was workers' rights or socialism. Advocating for an economic underclass is more consistent with advocating for other social underclasses than social conservatism. Sure, cognitive dissonance about that is strong in some sectors (we're all equal comrades, but who always ends up making the tea afterthe meeting?), but advocating for other people becomes a habit.

        • Dennis Frank 7.1.1.2
          18 September 2020 at 2:46 pm

          His thesis does have merit. Use of the divide & rule strategy is trad, of course, so individualism producing the woke variant is handy for controllers.

          Hyper-capitalism is now ready to embrace the “woke” – and heaven help any employee who declines to polish her corporate employer’s public image by challenging, even privately (via Facebook, Instagram or Twitter) the new orthodoxy.

          From a Green perspective, the biodiversity principle and multiculturalism both support the trend. Common ground, then…

      • Dennis Frank 7.1.2
        18 September 2020 at 2:36 pm

        Don't read me as a defender of the faith, but there is an ideology within neoliberalism: market forces make the economy efficient. I think that was the rationale that captured the rogernomes.

        So deregulation was merely a means to that ideological end. Bolger has learnt from application of the theory: doesn't deliver benefits promised. Roger is still staying mum. Will he come clean before he dies?

      • Dennis Frank 7.1.3
        18 September 2020 at 2:53 pm

        a bullshit dichotomy

        True. Yet most players in the political game are binary, so they will naturally line up as soldiers on either side of the culture war. Trotter doesn't write to catalyse solutions. To do so, he would have to give weight to a third alternative. It's the path to the future, always. Problem-solving is not in his nature. He's a commentator only.

        • greywarshark 7.1.3.1
          18 September 2020 at 3:01 pm

          Even if he just noted what he observed and wrote about it with some analysis and critique, he is doing something worthwhile. We often can't see what is on the end of our noses. A wart!

          • McFlock 7.1.3.1.1
            18 September 2020 at 9:49 pm

            Trotter barely looks beyond the inside of his own eyelids these days.

            I'm almost tempted to read the piece just to see if the rest of it is as tepid as the quoted paragraphs.

            It does make one wonder what side he thinks his "Waitakere Man" is on, and whether Labour should be going for that particular voting segment. Seems more New Conservative territory lol

            • greywarshark 7.1.3.1.1.1
              18 September 2020 at 9:56 pm

              One thing – he introduces new ideas. To a lot of the comfortably off NZs I know it would be like revolutionary material, their idea of discussion doesn't go beyond the material and personal.

  8. ianmac 8
    18 September 2020 at 12:29 pm

    Not sure if this has been covered but the Elevator Pitch is interesting. Jacinda's was the most credible but I can't find it. Judith seems tired and without conviction.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/425790/the-elevator-pitch-can-a-politician-convince-you-to-vote-for-them-in-a-lift

  9. McFlock 9
    18 September 2020 at 2:59 pm

    Oh look, turns out that the epidemiologist who doesn't want us to eliminate covid has a competing interest: "providing paid advice to Auckland International Airport related to health risks associated with covid-19".

    • greywarshark 9.1
      18 September 2020 at 3:03 pm

      There are so many kind experts sharing their love around without prejudice, one must admire them for their service to humankind.

      • aj 9.1.1
        18 September 2020 at 5:46 pm

        Instead, we must protect our elderly people

        It's the same old solution. Just make sure people over 60-65 lock themselves down for the duration of the pandemic, that's the only sure fire way to achieve it.

        • McFlock 9.1.1.1
          18 September 2020 at 9:42 pm

          Doesn't do anything for the people in their fifties and younger who have long term health problems because of it, or even been killed by it.

  10. Fireblade 10
    18 September 2020 at 3:15 pm

    Remember this?

  11. karol121 11
    18 September 2020 at 4:29 pm

    PLEASE STOP BEING MEAN TO THE GREENS, AND LET'S GET RID OF MOTOR CARS AND TRUCKS FOR GOOD!

    Power to the people (and the animals).

    No more anything spent on Electric Vehicle research or manufacture which would identify with beautiful Aotearoa. Sure, I don't think that we do anyway, but let's be ambassadors to the globe and rally to put paid to all of the trouble motor vehicles have caused us, permanently.

    The rest of the world would fall in into line because we are one of the most respected nations on the planet, and they will listen to us.

    Only horse/cart, horse/buggy, bicycle and tricycle research, development and resourcing should be allowed in Aotearoa (AKA Godzone).

    We need to go back about two to three hundred years when things were simple and where every inhabitant appeared charitable and community supportive with one another.

    A time when they all knew who the chiefs were and what their own respective roles and positions were. That is, before technology and foreign ideas wrecked it for them all.

    Noteworthy is that there are at least 9 million electric bicycles in the category of ride and charge that we know about around the Pacific region already. With just a little more CO2 emitted, we could increase this a hundred fold, so as to have clean and green bicycles that would last for decades. We could find ways to attach small carrier carts to the bicycles to cart items, inter suburb or intracity.

    I know that some people in the Ruapehu district associated with the Seventh Day Adventists and the Hope Foundation have been working with a prototype of this for some months now.

    Another has taken to getting as many demerit points as she can by collecting speeding tickets. Presumably she wants to have her drivers licence taken off her because she is so fed up with this modern day rat race reliance.

    I feel that in relation to true socialism and reverting back to; "A La Naturale" transport and domestic methods, we're high on a wire with the world in our sight.

    It just takes imagination and AOTEAROA WILL POWER!

    It could be just like in the good old days. Adopt a "can do" approach and you can do almost anything K1W1.

    There is a wealth of opportunity for peddle powered runabout and dinghy motors (as an addition to oars) for our foreshore, river way and lake transport needs.

    You know; it is the major vested interests as well as both the intelligencia and the bourgeois from our own various bordered metropolis bourgs who have become comfortable with the convenience of modern day technologies, including transport infrastructure. And the are screwing it up for all of us.

    Look at the Amish, they at least try to walk (or ride) the talk.

    Come on K1W1, let's get our hands really dirty in the soil and get ourselves superbly fit by throwing away all of these 20th and 21st century luxuries.

    Get governmental to seize all motor powered vehicles and convert them to emergency housing for the needy, wind powered coastal transport or prison accommodations for those who resist.

    Get rid of petrol or electric lawn mowers as well.

    Build more maternity hospitals and breed like there is no tomorrow so that we can produce fine farm specimens to work the fields and on the farms.

    Man, the possibilities are limitless.

    We could reserve about two thirds of arable land for grass and fodder to feed the horses, sheep and cattle with, and the remainder for growing kai (such as carrots and other veggies).

    Broccoli also. No more eating of animals either!

    Never again let any store assistant or green grocer tell us; "There is no f…… broccoli"

    The other third of arable land for orchards, berry farms and vineyards so we can produce beautiful fruits for consumption, juices, potatoes, hemp, Mary J and copious quantities of precursor alcohol product for a wealth of alcoholic beverage so that most of us can be as happy as sand boys (and sand girls).

    But it starts with US, and it starts NOW.

    Air New Zealand has taken a noble first step by parking up some of it's fleet in the desert, mothball fashion. And now we need a good home run (economically, perhaps a 1929 scenario) so that they will have the impetus to follow through and park the entire fleet up.

    This is surely the home grown K1W1 spirit, especially from what I've observed throughout rural NZ in small towns in and around the King Country, South Waikato and the Ruapehu District. They may talk grand tourist plans and modernization, but deep down inside they really do foster the simple life and the "back to basic" spirit. They really do not want too many outsiders or foreigners interfering with them and theirs doing things their way; the proper way.

    Why can we not pick up our pitch forks, our shovels and our ploughshares behind the coulter?

    We can then form a massive Campaign for Modern Technology Disablement and organize hikoi as well as home guard units to repel any sod who has any intention of coming to these shores to either introduce or support any of these Technologies of Mass Distraction and Destruction.

    I'm about to stop posting because I have deliberated on collecting up all of my computer related material, my entertainment equipment, all of my household appliances including whiteware). I consider that I might only be keeping earthenware and greyware, and I may well gift the rest back to Mother Nature. Back to the good earth.

    We must all strive to be good earth worms, my comrades.

    Live humble, live simple and let hope, faith and charity be our guiding lights and our Matariki.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1
      18 September 2020 at 7:17 pm

      We could find ways to attach small carrier carts to the bicycles to cart items, inter suburb or intracity.

      I know that some people in the Ruapehu district associated with the Seventh Day Adventists and the Hope Foundation have been working with a prototype of this for some months now.

      Really? Here's a few ideas:

      • karol121 11.1.1
        21 September 2020 at 3:43 pm

        Yes, Draco T Bastard.

        Thank you.

        The snaps shown in the twitter feed you provided are purrrfect examples of what can be achieved!

        Innovation and willpower can put K1W1 on the right track to total self reliance, and exclusive of dependency on any other nation.

        From statements I hear being bandied around in both political and corporate Aotearoa circles, we are almost there already, (total independence, that is).

        I bet the rest of the world is jealous of our achievements and of our assets. Unblemished, unencumbered and pure to the max is what many would be uttering.

        yes

  12. Macro 12
    18 September 2020 at 4:35 pm

    I thought I would let you know that yesterday I volunteered for the vaccine trials for Covid-19 held in the FarmAc store near us. The vaccine is one that was created in Russia. I received my first shot yesterday at 4:00 pm, and I wanted to let you know that it’s completely safe with иo side effects whatsoeveя, and that I feelshκι χoρoshό я чувствую себя немного странно и я думаю, что вытащил ослиные уши. Und wadka

    cheeky

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  • Speech to the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective Summit, 18 April 2024
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