Open mike 18/10/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, October 18th, 2019 - 130 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

130 comments on “Open mike 18/10/2019 ”

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  1. Adrian Thornton 1
    18 October 2019 at 8:33 am

    What Happens When the FBI Chooses Sides

    "We ask FBI whistleblower Coleen Rowley to compare the Russiagate investigation with the treatment of Hillary Clinton's emails, and ask whether the current polarized political landscape makes it more likely for the agency to make partisan choices."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTafNGrOI8Y

  2. Adrian Thornton 2
    18 October 2019 at 8:39 am

    Here is a interesting piece that helps unpack and clear a bit of the fog around some of the perceived similarities on major issues in the Warren/Sanders platforms…

    "No, Warren and Sanders Are Not the Same"

    https://www.truthdig.com/articles/no-warren-and-sanders-are-not-the-same/

    • Andre 2.1
      18 October 2019 at 9:07 am

      tl;dr Bernie is the true messiah and Elizabeth is a pale imitation false idol.

      • AB 2.1.1
        18 October 2019 at 10:28 am

        There are objective policy differences between Warren and Sanders. People will interpret those differences in their own way. For many people who aren't even Americans, the Sanders project represents something hopeful with global implications because the US is so important. To belittle this as 'messianic' seems to me like a gratuitous exaggeration – an attempt to create the perception of 'deplorables' on the left.

        • Andre 2.1.1.1
          18 October 2019 at 10:42 am

          The article starts in with a whine about Bernie getting negative media coverage. It's only dedicated true believer followers that can't accept that nobody's perfect, that all candidate are flawed, those flaws will be harshly examined, and rightly so.

          The article goes on to highlight one of Warren's serious flaws, her vagueness on how her healthcare plans will be funded. True dat.

          But it then gets gooey-eyed about Bernie's alternative, without recognising how electorally damaging Bernie's 'your taxes are going up to pay for it' stance is. Let alone that Bernie and the article also fail to identify the biggest financial factor in most American's healthcare; that they get their health insurance through an employer-sponsored healthcare plan where the employer pays the vast majority of the cost.

      • Adrian Thornton 2.1.2
        18 October 2019 at 10:47 am

        @ Andre, aahh. the staunchest defender of the liberal status quo, no change is good change, a real steady as she goes kind of guy….Warren will be fine if you are OK with a safe centersit liberal capitalist in the mould of Helen Clark that won't really rock the boat, and probably not really be remembered for anything in particular..I know that being all safe and sound is more your style.

        However if transformative change in the battle against climate change, a more sane foreign policy etc is your bag..like it is mine, then only one name is worth mentioning..and we all know who that is.

        • Andre 2.1.2.1
          18 October 2019 at 11:14 am

          You got any idea how far 'out there' you have to be for Warren to look like "a safe centersit liberal capitalist" ?

          • Kevin 2.1.2.1.1
            18 October 2019 at 1:38 pm

            By our standards or your average Americans?

            • Andre 2.1.2.1.1.1
              18 October 2019 at 3:37 pm

              By the standards of the people that actually get to vote for either Warren or Sanders (or Biden or Harris or Buttigieg or …)

  3. marty mars 3
    18 October 2019 at 11:13 am

    the unravelling is the fun part

    Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney said President Trump had mentioned Democratic "corruption".

    But Mr Trump was also concerned about wider corruption in Ukraine, he said.

    "That's why we held up the money," he said, calling it "absolutely appropriate".

    The question of whether military aid for Ukraine was withheld in exchange for a "quid pro quo" to investigate Donald Trump's political rivals is central to an impeachment inquiry against the president.

    The White House has denied any such conditions were imposed.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50087392

    • Andre 3.1
      18 October 2019 at 11:16 am

      It's an interesting take on the idea that it's the cover-up that gets you, not the crime. Gotta give 'em credit for having the whatever it takes to do it all right out in the open so there won't be a cover-up.

      • McFlock 3.1.1
        18 October 2019 at 4:04 pm

        It's like they forgot the purpose in the cover-up in the first place.

        It's all very well not to cover something up if people happen to ask the right questions, but it's a bloody stupid idea to take the body to the police station and announce "I murdered this man in cold blood and then I pissed on his corpse".

        • Andre 3.1.1.1
          18 October 2019 at 4:10 pm

          I really can't decide whether to think it's because they really don't think they're doing anything wrong, or they don't think they could ever possibly be held accountable, or it's a deliberate effort to burn it all.

    • mauī 3.2
      18 October 2019 at 12:39 pm

      This is so dumb… we still have no evidence of a quid pro quo.

      We have the transcript of the phone call with the Ukrainian president which was supposed to be direct evidence, and it utterly fails. Now we're left with relying on whatever Trump says to media as evidence…

  4. marty mars 4
    18 October 2019 at 11:22 am

    I hope I can get a look at this beasty with my scope

    Here’s the Picture We’ve Been Waiting for. Hubble’s Photo of Interstellar Comet 2I/Borisov.

    …2I/Borisov has wandered into our Solar System from the deep cold of interstellar space, but nobody knows from whence it came, or how long it’s been travelling. Boris only the second object we’ve observed that’s come into our Solar System from somewhere else in the galaxy, and the Hubble snapped photos of it speeding along at about 177,000 kph (110,000 mph.) So far, the Hubble images are the sharpest ones yet.

    Our first interstellar visitor was Oumuamua, which sped through our Solar System in 2017. But that object didn’t give up its secrets easily. It came and went and generated a lot of clicking and conjecture, and panicky headlines in some quarters. But it had not coma, and no tail, meaning it had no ice. But Boris is clearly a comet.

    Hubble captured these images of Boris when it was 418 million km (260 million miles) from Earth. At its closest approach it’ll be two astronomical units away from the Sun, on December 27th, 2019. As it approaches and recedes, other telescopes will observe it, and we’ll learn more about it.

    https://www.universetoday.com/143755/heres-the-picture-weve-been-waiting-for-hubbles-photo-of-interstellar-comet-2i-borisov/

    • Adrian Thornton 4.1
      18 October 2019 at 11:27 am

      I don't often agree with you marty, but that is very cool. Might have have to dig out out our old telescope.

      • fender 4.1.1
        18 October 2019 at 12:28 pm

        …Turn Borisov left…

      • mac1 4.1.2
        18 October 2019 at 12:56 pm

        The numbers around this comet are astounding to me. At a speed of 177,000 km/h, this comet would have taken 24000 years to have travelled from the nearest star at 4 light years away.

        And it hurtles through our solar system and away. Mrs Mac1 remembered her EELS stage one unit when a medieval writer wrote in AngloSaxon of a group of men sitting in the mead hall and watching a bird fly in one window and though the hall out the other end. Whence it came and whither it went?

        Good to be reminded there is a wider world out there……..

        • gsays 4.1.2.1
          18 October 2019 at 6:35 pm

          A mead hall, that sounds attractive. He said, sitting on the verandah, enjoying a home brew nectarine cider

          • mac1 4.1.2.1.1
            18 October 2019 at 6:56 pm

            Nectarine cider sounds good. I have brewed apple cider, perry and cherry cider which I called 'chider". and another with feijoa, apple and kiwifruit. The apple cider was reinforced 20:1 with crab apple juice and the perry reinforced. again for acidity, with quince juice. Quince juice tastes incredibly acidic, a real mouth puckerer. Enough sugar to make 5.5% alcohol my hydrometer said, but it turned my cheeks inside out! The cherry cider tasted like pinot noir, very dry. Now to find some nectarines……..

            • gsays 4.1.2.1.1.1
              18 October 2019 at 7:31 pm

              Its a hobby that is very rewarding.

              I have an acquaintance that has asked do I want honey to make mead. I am keenly awaiting his return from a holiday.

              • mac1 …
                18 October 2019 at 10:06 pm

                My former neighbour is an apiarist and used to give me the washings from his machinery, as well as straight honey to brew with. Very generous. One brew took two or three inoculations to get started with yeast. It had some manuka honey in it, I believe.

          • Stuart Munro. 4.1.2.1.2
            19 October 2019 at 12:00 am

            I brewed mead for years – it's easy enough, but aging it makes all the difference, about five years in it shows real improvement.

            • gsays 4.1.2.1.2.1
              19 October 2019 at 7:13 am

              5 years!

              That is another unintended consequence of brewing – patience.

              It is not one of my strong suits.

              • Stuart Munro. …
                19 October 2019 at 9:39 am

                I first learned about this from a friend who had a couple of bottles from a deceased aunt's estate, 25 years old or so, and freaking amazing. It's probably replicable with a solera system but I'm not settled enough at present for such experiments.

  5. Robert Guyton 5
    18 October 2019 at 11:48 am

    For those who were inquiring, I have made the final cut and secured my seat at the table at Environment Southland. Thanks for your support. I am somewhat relieved and my family will no longer have to tippy-toe around the place smiley

    https://www.facebook.com/CrRobertGuyton/photos/a.100684654644457/135382631174659/?type=3&theater

    • weka 5.1
      18 October 2019 at 11:55 am

      Hurray! :mrgreen:

    • Incognito 5.2
      18 October 2019 at 12:10 pm

      You make it sound you were a grumpy olde man 😉

      • Robert Guyton 5.2.1
        18 October 2019 at 12:29 pm

        Never grumpy, more highly-strung. More and more tetchy as the loooooong (extra) week of waiting unfolded. Angelic nowangel

        • Incognito 5.2.1.1
          18 October 2019 at 12:34 pm

          Yeah, it is a great feeling when you can relax those tense muscles and feel like you are walking on clouds. You often don’t know how stressful it is till it dissipates, a bit like child birth 😉

    • gsays 5.3
      18 October 2019 at 12:16 pm

      Congratulations Robert.

      You are one of the few elected leaders I would happily follow.

      • Robert Guyton 5.3.1
        18 October 2019 at 12:30 pm

        Thanks, gsays. I wouldn't follow me though, but walk alongside of, if you see what I mean smiley

    • greywarshark 5.4
      18 October 2019 at 12:37 pm

      Great for the country and thank goodness that the whole family is committed and up with the 'play'. Your lifestyle should enable you to stand up to the pressures and tiring work of carrying forward measures that don't offer any material positive outcomes for the councillors who have to give up some perks and the comfort of conforming to the mean mean.

      Did you come across Polly Higgins’ idea to impact on environmental damage with an international law banning climate harming? She wrote three books –

      2010 Eradicating Ecocide: Exposing the Corporate and Political Practices Destroying the Planet and Proposing the Laws Needed to Eradicate Ecocide

      2012 Earth is our Business: Changing the Rules of the Game
      Advocating a new form of leadership that places the health and well-being of people and the planet first, this book proposes a new Earth law, a framework for sustainable development and international environmental governance.

      2014 I Dare You to be Great
      https://highprofiles.info/interview/polly-higgins/

      (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV2yvYGjgMk 1hr+
      2014 Earth Talk: I Dare You To Be Great – Polly Higgins

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPUmN88htCo

      2013 Dare to be great: Polly Higgins at TEDxWhitechapel 12 mins

      2019 April 21 Polly died.

    • Cinny 5.5
      18 October 2019 at 2:04 pm

      WOO HOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good stuff yes Congrats !

    • ianmac 5.6
      18 October 2019 at 2:09 pm

      Congratulations Robert!

    • Pingau 5.7
      18 October 2019 at 2:48 pm

      Great news! Huzzahs aplenty!!

    • McFlock 5.8
      18 October 2019 at 4:09 pm

      yay!

    • Blazer 5.9
      18 October 2019 at 9:31 pm

      Congratulations you life support system for a long grey…beard.

  6. marty mars 6
    18 October 2019 at 11:53 am

    Sad fact is that the infiltrators and undercovers will already be in there – stirring it up, creating anxiety and distrust, getting extreme and then pretending others were, and doing the opposite of that. Can't stop it – just a tightness of group and an awareness of others to mitigate. Kia kaha ER.

    I am not saying this action described below is unaligned with the movement or that it is contrived – the point is no one can know because the ones the disrupt, work from both sides – calling for more action, calling for less action – it is the uncertainty and division that is the goal.

    The climate protests during which one activist was dragged from the roof of a London Underground train by angry commuters had been discussed within Extinction Rebellion [XR] for weeks.

    But it was not until Wednesday morning, when a note was posted on the group’s website, that a decision appeared to have been taken.

    In the hours that followed there was a sometimes fractious debate among XR supporters. More than 3,700 people responded to an online poll circulated on the group’s social media networks with 72% saying they were opposed to the action “no matter how it is done”.

    Those opposed feared the action, taken against what they said were the wishes of the overwhelming majority, would demoralise activists and raised questions about the group’s democratic decision-making processes.

    More fundamentally, they argued that the targeting of public transport – rather than roads, airports or financial institutions hit earlier in the week – confused their message.

    “Our fear was that targeting public transport, an environmentally friendly way to travel, would alienate the public and muddle what we were trying to say in the minds of the public,” said one of those opposed to the action who did not want to be named.

    There was also concern that by explicitly targeting working Londoners, they would undermine any public sympathy they had built up.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/17/london-tube-protest-divides-extinction-rebellion

    • weka 6.1
      18 October 2019 at 12:07 pm

      Not sure this is XR divided, but it will probably present some issues for people who think that disagreement and dissent are a problem.

      Following on twitter, looks like XR leaders are learning from the experience and fronting up.

      My main issue is the stations that were chosen. Why ones that are more working class? I think the point was that the lines end up in the business district, and were used in April actions. But I'd still like to see an explanation of the thinking process behind that one.

      While I think XR are right to make statements of non-support for the action (and look at how splinter groups can take independent action but not as part of XR), this XR woman is impressive in her calm explanation of what matters. Clare Farrell,

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=estuUJCa6RY

      I also hope the people in the action get support. That's scarey shit being pulled into a mob and kicked on the ground.

      • Poission 6.1.1
        18 October 2019 at 12:12 pm

        The people are rising,the working class.

        "The people are rising up against the elites. No, I don’t mean Extinction Rebellion. I mean the Rebellion against Extinction Rebellion. Today’s clashes on the Tube between the commuting working classes and the time-rich, bourgeois fearmongers of the XR cult is a wonderful illustration of the elitist nature of eco-politics and of rising public fury with the eco-agenda. "

        https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/10/17/finally-a-rebellion-against-extinction-rebellion/

        • weka 6.1.1.1
          18 October 2019 at 12:18 pm

          Hardly a working class uprising, looks more like a stress reaction to me.

          Spiked are pretty reactionary against climate action as far as I can tell.

          • Climaction 6.1.1.1.1
            18 October 2019 at 12:30 pm

            No, they’re reactionary against XR, who clearly prioritise their bougie viewpoints over all rational and logical criticism of their behaviour.
            the tube is one of the answers to climate change, and getting more people to use it. It’s used by all classes, because it works, is relatively cheap compared to cabs and cars, and is per passenger mile the cleanest powered transport in London.

            yet it should be a target “cos direct action” sure

            no surprise weka focuses on the messenger rather than the message.

            • weka 6.1.1.1.1.1
              18 October 2019 at 12:43 pm

              Are you saying Spiked support climate action generally but just not XR?

              XR is a decentralised network. Most of XR, including the main leaders, opposed the action and didn't want it to happen.

              • Climaction …
                18 October 2019 at 12:49 pm

                XR can distance themselves, but it was coordinated and under the XR banner. If it’s decentralised how do we know it’s XR leaders talking for XR and not showing support? How do we know the whole leadership of XR is against the action?

                • weka …
                  18 October 2019 at 12:59 pm

                  because they have a degree of transparency, they're accepting responsibility and are intending to review how they do things.

                  People have posted online screenshots of the % that voted against the action before it happened. It's pretty clear now what happened.

                • weka …
                  18 October 2019 at 1:00 pm

                  "How do we know the whole leadership of XR is against the action?"

                  We don't. It's a large group, and decentralised. But key players are talking about the problems with the action, and what the solutions are for them as an org.

                  • Climaction …
                    18 October 2019 at 2:15 pm

                    Hmmmm, all right. At least they recognise the disruption and frustration caused to those who can not necessarily afford it

      • weka 6.1.2
        18 October 2019 at 12:43 pm

        Statement from XR about the tube actions in London,

        https://rebellion.earth/2019/10/17/todays-tube-action-how-it-happened/

        • marty mars 6.1.2.1
          18 October 2019 at 2:14 pm

          Impressive statement – I hope they can keep the wheels on and focus on the real enemy.

          …Our fifth value is “that we value reflecting and learning”. ‘Post consensus’ organising is undoubtedly an important part of what has made us such a dynamic, fast-growing and vibrant movement. On the other hand, there are clearly serious flaws in a system that gives rise to pain such as many of us feel today.

          This movement is made up of people who pour their energy and hopes into this cause and who have been left feeling disrespected, powerless and unheard. It’s clear we need to take serious time to learn from what went wrong.

          As we begin to think about why we are where we are, it’s vital to remember the bigger picture. As with earlier controversial proposals, this action was conceived and carried out by incredibly courageous individuals, willing to face prison sentences, and motivated by the same deep fear and profound love that drives so many of us to do what we do.

          It’s no less through love and fear, and due to the same conditions of oppression that we face ourselves, that we saw such a disturbing reaction from some of those on the platform at Canning Town. These were commuters trying to get to work so they can support their loved ones. We recognise that disruption at Canning Town affected those already suffering the hardships of a toxic system – those who are the most at risk from the effects of climate and ecological collapse…

      • Cricklewood 6.1.3
        18 October 2019 at 6:28 pm

        Was a poorly chosen target when you're struggling to make rent etc in London a tube shutdown is bad news… hopefully they learn from it.

        I would have thought the London city airport would have been a far better target.

        XR could alienate themselves from the working classes if they arn't careful and would likely undo all they are trying to achieve.

    • greywarshark 6.2
      18 October 2019 at 12:13 pm

      I thought about how many people would be encouraged to thoughtful and useful action towards preventing and coping with climate change by this action by apparently Extinction Rebellion activists?

      And decided that it was likely to be none, and the events that unfolded show that none appears to be the right answer. No, or very few people wanted to sit down and have a pow wow about the problem of climate change. In fact they were reported to have been incensed that they could not fulfil their various roles in society where people were waiting for them to attend and work using their various skills. We live in a complex economic system and it gives people jobs which they earn money from to support themselves and families. Is that hard for activists to understand?

      Creating chaos is not the way to stop the behaviours that cause and increase Climate Change. It will only mean that the small ameliorations we hope to achieve become impossible, and we hope that small things done all over the globe may have large implications as in Chaos Theory. It is important to plan the Chaos Theory* campaigns so one does not create complete chaos!

      *https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

      In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state.

  7. OnceWasTim 7
    18 October 2019 at 12:47 pm

    I'd be interested to know what @Wayne thinks of the various theories on Repressed Memory Syndrome and Dissociative Amnesia and what sort of trauma it is that prompts a recall of memory.

    It really must be hard for a self-appointed sage having to coming to terms with one's credibility being placed in question.

    • Dukeofurl 7.1
      18 October 2019 at 1:09 pm

      Collective amnesia before the 2011 election.

      Notice how the generals have thick briefing books in front of them at the Burnham enquiry , but a few Colonels and Captains can remember quite clearly . The Army tried to hide one relevant Colonel from testifying as they 'keep losing' the paperwork. The secret reports, the lists of people who handled documents….

      NZ Herald

      "A second senior military officer has claimed former Defence Minister Wayne Mapp was given a report showing the civilians may have died in a New Zealand-led mission in Afghanistan years before the Defence Force acknowledged the possibility.

      • OnceWasTim 7.1.1
        18 October 2019 at 1:33 pm

        You know @Duke, I was just saying to Mrs OnceWasTim the other day, as I was preparing for my next rent-a-voice media gig, and she was busy darning my socks, ironing my leisure suit and getting the meal on the table at 6pm sharpish, that all this could get a bit ugly.

        As Mrs OnceWasTim discarded the khaki wool and re-threaded her needle with a pinkish shade, I suddenly had a recall, and it brought back a few hazy memories of being told about a few things relating to civilian casualties. At the time, I now know I thought it best kept secret in the national interest. But it really did prey on my mind.

        I said to Mrs OnceWasTim, forget worrying about the 2019 Christmas card list and that matching set of feral vests and jumpers you've been knitting for John and Bronagh and that nice young man Mex – we really need a plan going forward.

        My best friend, companion and woifey Mrs OnceWereTim were again at one.

        I've been hard out on the phone ever since doing the numbers and trying to determine just who it is that'll remain loyal, and who is about to drop me like a hot potato. AND! after ALL I've done for this country. Already, quite a few just don't seem to know who I am!

        I'm shocked – really I am!

  8. weka 8
    18 October 2019 at 1:13 pm

    Wellington Mayoral race down to 62 votes, and the possibility of a recount. Voting matters.

    https://twitter.com/justin_lester/status/1184966502979473409

    • OnceWasTim 8.1
      18 October 2019 at 2:07 pm

      My heart rilly rilly goes out to Juss. And to think!!! – the ultimate insult. Jacinda didn't even seem to know who he was AFTER ALL he'd actually achieved. It's just not right eh!

      Never mind though eh? Juss is considering his options and he might even be able to do another Kapai style startup – just as long as some of those pesky young people and feminazis don't get in his way. 62 votes! – he must be fucking devastated now that arshole is in control with a load of young whippersnappers.

  9. Avocado 9
    18 October 2019 at 1:45 pm

    Odds on Jacinda claiming him as a Labour candidate if he gets back in?

    • OnceWasTim 9.1
      18 October 2019 at 2:36 pm

      Let's hope so!

      Maybe they could all have a meeting of the minds down at somewhere like Bats, and come to a Brexit-style agreement (going forward)

      There'd be a Labour label, a few young whippersnappers each of which has the brainpower of the entire collective, and maybe even a bit of Wellington Party rough trade that failed on the local council but professed such a concern regionally, that would show up.
      You might even be able to attract the prefect Nicola – such an impressive lineage!

      As things stand, it's not that bad an outcome even if it is a holding pattern

    • OnceWasTim 9.2
      18 October 2019 at 2:47 pm

      oops sorry @ Avocado. I mis-read. I'm hoping Jacinda DOESN'T try and claim him

      I’m not even sure why she felt the need to apologise. Maybe Grant had a whisper in her ear

  10. joe90 10
    18 October 2019 at 1:58 pm

    You don’t clean out an ethnic group you fucking Nazi.

    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1184897777941307392

  11. greywarshark 11
    18 October 2019 at 2:27 pm

    TV3 down and wants government help. I should cocoa!

    Struggling news media companies have been lobbying the government behind the scenes for some time. On Thursday broadcaster MediaWorks put it all out in the open, telling the minister responsible its future is in doubt and democracy could die in darkness if he fails to act now.

    “I have a challenge for the broadcasting minister. Step in and save New Zealand television and news channels before it’s too late,” Duncan Garner told his listeners and viewers dramatically on the AM show this morning.

    To reinforce the message, the studio lights dipped for a few seconds.

    Broadcasting Minister Kris Faafoi was a former TVNZ rival of Duncan Garner when they were both TV reporters in the press gallery 10 years ago.

    Ever since Kris Faafoi got the job last year, news media companies have been telling him they need his help.

    It was music to their ears when he spoke about shoring up the news media scene, "preserving plurality" and "funding differently".

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018708908/a-media-cry-for-help

    There are 4-5 million of us. We don't need three channels to stand between the truth, the explanations and the viewers. What we need is less tv and more talks, panels, thinking, reading, not just dropped jaws as the latest scandal gets hyped up in techiest technicolour.

  13. Peter 13
    18 October 2019 at 2:51 pm

    Every now and then some celebrity does something crazy, has a breakdown or commits suicide. The noise after that usually includes 'why didn't we take notice of the signs and do something about it to help?'

    That's the feeling I'm getting watching Trump in Texas. Not about me, about him.

  14. marty mars 14
    18 October 2019 at 3:13 pm

    bombshell – not good wayne

    A former defence minister facing accusations of a cover up has admitted he knew of possible civilian deaths and decided not to tell the prime minister and public.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116682917/former-defence-minister-wayne-mapp-says-he-knew-of-possible-civilian-deaths-but-decided-not-to-act

    • Rosemary McDonald 14.1
      18 October 2019 at 4:22 pm

      Slimy, wriggly-arsed, bottom-feeding scum suckers.

      And to think that these are the uprights we put in charge of our nation's security.

      Goddess help us all.

      • David Mac 14.1.1
        18 October 2019 at 5:21 pm

        Geez, that's terse Rosemary.

        Would you deliver your first line to Wayne while his grandchild was bouncing on his knee? (The child is only 1, won't understand you, just smile as you say it.)

        I think you spend a lot of time saying "My life is crap and I demand that you, you, you and you fix it right now."

        That's fine but I'm not sure you should be so quick to judge a view that differs from your own. Lets find ways to get along hey….we can skew the game our way*

        *wink

    • OnceWasTim 14.2
      18 October 2019 at 4:36 pm

      Indeed Mr Mars (see 7 above)

      The rise of the sociopaths.

      • marty mars 14.2.1
        18 October 2019 at 5:00 pm

        yes

      • Anne 14.2.2
        18 October 2019 at 5:04 pm

        It's the culture of the Defence Force OWT. I sat on on an Air Force base – an outsider looking in – for five years. The rank and file were by and large a good bunch, but some of the brass saw themselves as superior to the rest of us civilian yobbos in particular, and therefore impervious to criticism and accountability.

        There is an element of "Dunning Kruger" at play too and a determination to cover each others backs no matter how serious the charges laid.

        It was inevitable they would come a cropper one day and thanks to Jon Stephenson and Nicky Hager it looks like it has happened.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

        • Anne 14.2.2.1
          18 October 2019 at 5:19 pm

          I should have said… culture within the Defence Force. Bit unfair to tar them all with the same brush because they're not all at fault.

    • David Mac 14.3
      18 October 2019 at 4:39 pm

      Fascinating, if the journalist's take is to be believed it looks as though the hearing has come to a bit of a head. SAS commander Colonel Jim Blackwell toe to toe with ex Minister Mapp.

      Looks as if it unfolded a bit like this…

      Colonel: "Are you saying I'm lying Mr Mapp?”

      Mr Mapp: "Oh no, I am highlighting the minor but important discrepencies in your recall of events. Are you saying that I'm lying?"

      Colonel: "Yes."

      • David Mac 14.3.1
        18 October 2019 at 4:57 pm

        I would suggest that it would be very difficult to maintain the respect of the squad and rise to the very top of our most elite fighting force whilst being a bullshit artist.

        • David Mac 14.3.1.1
          18 October 2019 at 6:11 pm

          I don't think Wayne is a devious lying manipulator.

          He is a retired career politician. It's a role that requires an ability to spin, describing 'What's going down' with glasses of many tints, mainly rose. Behave any way long enough and it becomes habit.

          He believes what he is saying….sort of.

          No other Nat minor celeb spends time in here. Wayne is a bit like the straight guy that is spending just a bit too much of his time in a gay bar. "Oh I only hang out at the Standard because geez those lefties know how to select tunes and dance."

          I dig Wayne. No other established righty spends time in here. I reckon he's a closet leftie. Full of BS, of course, he was a politician, show me one that isn't….not so much liars….Truth artists.

          • marty mars 14.3.1.1.1
            18 October 2019 at 6:25 pm

            Don't be sucked in by apparent niceness and civility – that's how monsters gain power. The truth will out about these sordid murders of innocents and the courts hopefully will make appropriate judgment. Nice people do shit things sonetimes – you do don't you? And you're nice aren't you?

            • David Mac 14.3.1.1.1.1
              18 October 2019 at 6:32 pm

              There's a Derringer in my sock.

            • Peter 14.3.1.1.1.2
              18 October 2019 at 6:35 pm

              Your 'don't be sucked in by apparent niceness and civility' line reminds me of remarks in the 'Reality kicks in for US trolls' post to do with the style of David Farrar.

              The biggest, slimiest, dirtiest weasels don't necessarily look like the biggest, slimiest, dirtiest weasels or on a superficial level sound like them. Their deeds speak for them though.

              • David Mac …
                18 October 2019 at 8:35 pm

                I believe in us. I think we all want to be good parents and lovers. We just need a good enough reason to be so. Striving to get a $17 an hour job or deemed suitable enough to pay $500 a week for a $300 a week flat beats the get up and go out of folk.

                Life in NZ has become tough for people that aren't going to be doctors. Even them! Doctors striking!

                We've got shit to sort.

          • David Mac 14.3.1.1.2
            18 October 2019 at 6:31 pm

            Regardless of how many damnings you may encounter over the next while Wayne.

            There's a comfy chair and a lager for you over at The Standard. Most of us have had unfortunate dealings with the authorities over the years.

            Welcome.

            • Anne 14.3.1.1.2.1
              18 October 2019 at 6:45 pm

              I second that.

            • marty mars 14.3.1.1.2.2
              18 October 2019 at 7:50 pm

              ummm he was the 'authority'. You seem to care more about your imaginary relationship to wayne than any truth – why not just wait and see what comes out before going all gushy.

              • marty mars …
                18 October 2019 at 8:01 pm

                anyway just ignore my grumpiness – I think I'll head to a mates place 3 minutes away down the hill and throw some arrows. Have a good one.

                • David Mac …
                  18 October 2019 at 9:06 pm

                  I used to take you with a grain of salt but you still seemed to upset me. I tried taking you with 2 grains of salt and found myself getting to like you.

                  We all just want to be loved Marty.

    • Sacha 14.4
      18 October 2019 at 6:37 pm

      This part interested me:

      Inquiry lawyer Kristy McDonald, QC, questioned Mapp on this "dramatic change" during testy exchanges.

      "Are you absolutely sure you're not falling on your sword for this matter, for some reason we're not aware of?" she said.

      Mapp said: "No".

      • gsays 14.4.1
        18 October 2019 at 6:52 pm

        I am curious as to why the poor behaviour by folk that should know better.

      • David Mac 14.4.2
        18 October 2019 at 7:02 pm

        Yep, the chap in Wayne's mirror is winning him over.

        'It's ok to place giving a shit about people above all else bro.'

        • David Mac 14.4.2.1
          18 October 2019 at 7:12 pm

          Our inner self, it is the key element in all of Mike King's talks and he is so right.

          That inner voice that says 'gee you're smart' or 'gee you're fat'. It's just so jolly fundamental. The conversation our inner voice is having with us.

          I dig Mike King. Mike King for Health Minister. He gives a genuine damn. Mike King would say "If you don't like what I'm doing, vote me out, I'll do something else." He wouldn't defend a bullshit scheme, he'd call it for what it is.

          Hey Mike, stand as an Independent Minister of Health, I reckon you'd romp in sport.

        • Sacha 14.4.2.2
          18 October 2019 at 7:15 pm

          Yep. Less shame in making a mistake than in lying about it.

    • Anne 14.5
      18 October 2019 at 7:28 pm

      In light of today’s developments here is a two year old Standard post by much missed author, Anthony Robins:

      https://thestandard.org.nz/the-nzdf-will-never-clear-its-name-and-neither-will-bill-english/

      The comments are also well worth a read… Pete George does not come out of it at all well. 🙂

  15. Ad 15
    18 October 2019 at 7:30 pm

    When do we get to the point where Brexit is done, the Democrats have a nominated candidate, the China-US trade deal is done, and the Year of Delivery starts?

    2019 is like political Waiting For Godot.

    • David Mac 15.1
      18 October 2019 at 8:02 pm

      The Year of Flux.

      2019 lends itself to being a year of anticipation.

      2020 will be the year of first rate vision.

      • Ad 15.1.1
        18 October 2019 at 9:52 pm

        There's a good likelihood that it's a year that democracy really starts to wear out.

        Nothing changes, nothing worth getting up for, global economy stagnant, no major political shifts, most liberative movements exhausted.

        • David Mac 15.1.1.1
          18 October 2019 at 10:44 pm

          I don't think most people's thoughts are focused on the points you point to Ad.

          Even those deemed to be comfortable are having to choose between insurance cover or the Herald delivered.

          Too many of us are working too hard to earn nothing more than more struggle. It shouldn't be so tough to get ahead. Anyone with their nose to the grind-stone for 5 years should end up with equity in their own home. Not just keeping up with the rent.

          Working like a demon to pay off a house for someone too lazy to scratch sux

  16. David Mac 16
    18 October 2019 at 9:51 pm

    Her phone has gone to message 3 times.

    Fortunately I have your ear to chew on, Hi, I'm Rupert

  17. Eco maori 17
    19 October 2019 at 9:05 am

    Aqua culture has huge potential to feed Te Papatuanuku tangata we can grow aqua culture with out ruining our environment so long as plans are put in place to minimise the negative environmental effects on day one.

    Seaweed project to reduce burping cows may be an environmental 'game-changer

    A project to turn a native red seaweed into a greenhouse gas-busting cattle feed supplement has received Government backing.

    The Cawthron Institute is to receive the money from the Government's Sustainable Food & Fibre Futures fund to turn the seaweed, Asparagopsis armata, into a cattle feed supplement for domestic and global markets. This particular seaweed contains chemicals that have been found to reduce the microbes in the stomachs of cattle that cause them to burp when they eat grass

    The Cawthron project could lay the foundations for a new high-value industry, "along with the jobs that go with it"

    "There is also export potential and on-farm economic benefits, including price premiums for milk and meat," O'Connor said. "We want to be the most productive, sustainable country in the world. Projects

    Asparagopsis armata is a native red seaweed, which grows abundantly throughout New Zealand waters.

    SUPPLIED

    Asparagopsis armata is a native red seaweed, which grows abundantly throughout New Zealand waters

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/116683942/government-supports-seaweed-project-to-reduce-cattle-methane-emissions

    • mac1 17.1
      19 October 2019 at 12:20 pm

      "Australian research estimates that if just 10 per cent of global ruminant producers adopted Asparagopsis as an additive to feed their livestock, it would have the same impact for our climate as removing 50 million cars from the world's roads."

      A quote from the article above. Brilliant science. A little fantasy now. Can the gene that makes the compound that reduces the microbes that make the methane in a ruminant's gut be transferred into something like grape skins so that the huge tonnage of waste mast material from the wine industry can be dried and fed to cattle? Sauvignon blanc would be good cos I don't drink it, and also the compound from asparagopsis might add to that distinctive Savvy smell……… sorry, aroma…..

      • greywarshark 17.1.1
        19 October 2019 at 3:15 pm

        " "We want to be the most productive, sustainable country in the world. Projects "

        Oh cripes, please settle for very good, reliable and innovative. All this competitive boasting makes me feel sick. Probably nothing is 100% and we know we never were 100% pure, zero targets, nah, just down to minimal levels. And wanting to be the fastest little country in the world to shoot itself in the foot, was what Roger Douglas got a knighthood for. And he didn't have to put up with as much as poor Black Knight did. Actually the roles were reversed and we went down still claiming we could fight, come on ya pussy, and we still are trying. Good for us losers. So please don't set the bar at perfect or first in the world. Keeping up the front for the world is too demanding.

  18. Eco maori 18
    19 October 2019 at 6:27 pm

    Kia Ora 1 News.

    I agree that prisoners should get to vote.

    I know a couple of tangata who stuffed from chemicals poison while serving in Vietnam.

    Wahine walking in space that's great.

    Ka kite Ano

  19. Eco maori 19
    19 October 2019 at 6:47 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    That's great to hear that Lee Smith was a champion for our Taonga Te reo Maori.

    I know A new day is coming were minority cultures are given respect

    Ka kite Ano

  21. Eco maori 21
    20 October 2019 at 9:55 am

    It's great to see that the majority of tangata now believe our scientists facts on humans causing Global Warming. Now we can change Te Papatuanuku for the better for all Ma Te Wa.

    Extreme weather linked to greater public trust in science, survey shows

    Seeing is believing when it comes to climate change and it's changing people's minds, writes Amber-Leigh Woolf.

    The tangible evidence of climate change, in the form of extreme weather events, has seen a boost in the public's trust in science, an Auckland University professor says.

    Thirty years ago some scientists would've struggled to have their climate change work noticed, now it seems more and more people are taking note.

    Auckland physics professor Shaun Hendy said people were seeing the evidence of climate change with their own eyes

    A wild storm lashed northern parts of New Zealand earlier this month, causing flash floods, especially in Auckland, Waikato and areas of the Coromandel Peninsula

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/science/116397981/extreme-weather-linked-to-greater-public-trust-in-science-survey-shows

  22. Eco maori 22
    20 October 2019 at 12:05 pm

    Planting trees has many positive impacts on Tangata and Papatuanuku. But one can not just plant trees in any location there needs to be a bit of planning so that the trees won't have a negative effect on your property. For one don't plant trees in front of your whare as they could shade your whare and make heating your whare very expensive. Don't plant trees close to power line telephone lines etc as you can end up spending thousands trimming trees away from the lines. I have seen many trees planted in the wrong locations.

    How to plant trees – and help save the planet

    Mass tree planting may be one of the simplest and cheapest ways to help the environment – and now is the time to get started

    My friend Ming is a friend of oaks. Whenever she sees a sapling that’s doomed to be mown or trampled, or has appeared in the middle of a vegetable bed, she is there to rehome it. Now, when I see an oak sapling in the wrong spot, I think of her and move it. To love trees is to invest hope in the future. To have faith in times to come is not easy right now, but there is scientific evidence that mass tree planting may be one of the simplest and cheapest ways to reduce our impact on our ecosystem.

    We will need a lot of trees, however – more than a trillion, and they will have to span the globe. They will not negate climate change on their own, but they will store carbon, help clean the air, filter and slow down rainwater to help prevent flooding and, if a diverse bunch is planted, help increase biodiversity. A target of a trillion trees needs worldwide backing from every country and every government. It’s easy to feel pessimistic about the likelihood of that Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/oct/19/reduce-impact-ecosystem-plant-trees-alys-fowler

  23. Eco maori 23
    20 October 2019 at 6:27 pm

    Kia Ora 1 News.

    Its good that Te Rangatahi views and concerns are heard.

    Yes Tangata need to be prepared for the weather Tawhirimate can change very fast at Tongariro.

    Mana Wahine.

    The 30 coffins found by Egypt is amazing they will contain a lot of valuable information on that erra. That’s excellent that Lincoln University is going to build a solar powered system so they can faze out their coal powered boilers

    Ka kite Ano

  24. Eco maori 24
    20 October 2019 at 6:53 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Condolences to Matua Ramon whanau for their loss.

    Its great to see The Rugby World Cup in Japan has full seats.

    Ka pai to the Wahine Rugby league team.

    Virtual Reality is a great educational tool that is cool that it’s being used to help protect our Taonga Kauri trees Tane Mahuta.

    Ka kite Ano

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