Even many people supporting the National Party that I know are commenting on the amount of media coverage attacking Labour… this is Nationals biggest achievement in the last 6 years.
The capital gains tax proposed will be a reduction in tax. Currently taxable capital gains are taxed at the highest marginal tax rate,say 30%. The CGT is proposed to be at 15%
Contrary to memes here capital gains tax is paid by tax payers trading in assets.
Agreed Saarbo. It is interesting the number of “independent” commentators who pop up and then run right wing lines. Littlewood’s claim is bizarre. A compulsory near universal savings scheme will not increase savings?
Littlewood is someone in the past who has advocated getting rid of the Cullen Fund and for ACC to not collect reserves to cover future liabilities.
i don’t think tho Phillip that a Capital Gains Tax will effect the ‘rentals’ until some time in the future should such be sold,
The proposed Capital Gains Tax will tho capture those who are in the market speculating, how many of these speculators there are seems to also be one of the ‘unknowns’ of the property market, with deliberation i would suggest,
The ability to write off losses on the ‘rental’ against all other taxable income if David Parker is to be believed will also be addressed and it is this ability to get a hidden subsidy on the ‘rental’ from the Government that i believe is one of the major driving forces for those entering the ‘rental’ property market,
There is apparently a piece in today’s Herald highlighting/touting the move by the Auckland middle class into Hamilton property where the ‘owners’ live and rent in Auckland and have a ‘rental’ in Hamilton being subsidized by the Accommodation Supplement and the ability to write off losses on the Hamilton rental against their income,(although i doubt the latter subsidy gets a mention from the Herald it being ‘a secret’)…
”Expenses” BM, deliberately buying into a ‘rental’ with knowledge that the mortgage, rates, and insurance can never be recouped by the amount of rent able to be gathered from the property and only doing so because of the ability to write off the difference between the outgoings and the income against other taxable income, including, with a little ”legal shuffle”, wages from employment i would describe as something else than ‘business’,
In such a situation the ‘business’ is in fact insolvent from day one and is then being propped up by the tax base in a manner that i would contend the tax base was never intended to be used,
This is in fact the ‘loop-hole’ which has encouraged a vast swathe of the middle class into buying ‘rentals’, the Treasury having previously produced data that shows that in the past 20 years since the exploitation of this ‘loop-hole’ became popular, 200,000 former ‘homes’ have been transferred into ‘rentals’,
In effect the Government on each of these properties is paying a double subsidy, the accommodation subsidy and the tax write off accounting for more in dollar terms than the subsidy paid by the Government to HousingNZ for each tenant housed,
It could then be argued that instead of being housed by the State in an asset the State owns the tenants renting such property are now involved in a money go round where their taxes are directly subsidizing the ownership ambitions of the private landlords ‘rental portfolios’…
All that needs to be done is to ring-fence the losses so they can’t get offset against other personal income, eg salary and wages, only from future income derived directly from the rental activity, and the problem is solved.
They don’t appear to see the irony in this statement: “Labour’s proposal would see rental property treated differently from other businesses, which means they would use tax policy to influence peoples’ investment decisions. It is commonly considered bad policy to use tax as a means for influencing people’s investment decisions.”
I would make interest non-deductible on the grounds that it is a capital expense rather than a normal business expense. Expenses should only be deducted from income, for tax purposes, if that income is taxable, and at the present time this does not include capital gain. Muldoon made interest non-deductible if the property was sold within 10 years but I think this rule has since been discontinued. I would reintroduce it, but without the 10 year limit.
Full text of the TPP IP chapter up (prreviously secret) now made available online by Wikileaks. It includes the position of each of the participating country, on each provision.
The 95-page, 30,000-word IP Chapter lays out provisions for instituting a far-reaching, transnational legal and enforcement regime, modifying or replacing existing laws in TPP member states. The Chapter’s subsections include agreements relating to patents (who may produce goods or drugs), copyright (who may transmit information), trademarks (who may describe information or goods as authentic) and industrial design.
[…]
The consolidated text obtained by WikiLeaks after the 26-30 August 2013 TPP meeting in Brunei – unlike any other TPP-related documents previously released to the public – contains annotations detailing each country’s positions on the issues under negotiation. Julian Assange emphasises that a “cringingly obsequious” Australia is the nation most likely to support the hardline position of US negotiators against other countries, while states including Vietnam, Chile and Malaysia are more likely to be in opposition.
Pretty easy to see why people say it will never be signed, and begs the question: when people say they oppose “the” TPPA, which one are they talking about?
China to build and operate for UK: nuclear power station, high speed rail
PM Cameron is all for it. It seems like white English speaking peoples are incapable of doing anything for themselves these days without contracting the job out to China for bottom dollar
…. so it’s going to be high speed rail with asbestos in the insulation and suspect brakes and bearings then. And I’ll bet there are one or two struggling firms still around in the UK capable of the work.
Why wouldn’t they give the job to the German’s? Sure it might cost more, but I bet they’d get a better product with better long-term support for the price premium.
”Gimmie a head with hair”,so sung the song, time appears to have stood still as far as hair in schools go with the highlighting in the past week or so the ‘exclusion’ from the classroom of a couple of kids because of the length of their hair or the way such hair has been ‘styled’,
i fail to see how the length or otherwise of a persons hair has the slightest effect upon their ability to learn and think central Government need step into this area and make it plain through Legislation that the state of a persons hair cannot be a legitimate reason to exclude them from the classroom…
+1
….. or maybe it’s just male WASPs whose ‘learnings’ are affected by long hair. (I just witnessed a highly intelligent and knowledgable Sikh who has never cut his hair tie it up in his turban).
….. or maybe it’s just about control freaks trying to impose their conservative, ‘good, wholesome’ values on yoof (Show ’em some discipline – if I had my way I’d put ’em in the army). Homogenise and rinse. /sarc
At my high school, the rule was the same for both sexes; if it was long enough to be tied back, it had to be tied back. Not quite sure what the rules on mascara were, but it doesn’t seem to have negatively affected my fellow student Michael Laws in his adult years 😉
i am shocked,awed, and, highly amused at the primitive reactions of some Boards of Trustee’s that have been publicly exhibited in the past couple of weeks,
i well remember the ‘fuss’ when my brother got the kick from Tawa College here in Wellington for His flat refusal to cut His hair, this incident occurred back in the mists of the past, New Zealand circa late 1960’s,
Hypocrisy abounds surrounding the issue, one young fella, featured on Campbell Live last week, excluded from the classroom for what i consider an intelligent ‘neat’ rendition of His hair into a tribal carving was allowed, obviously because His prowess on the field showed the school in a good light, to partake in school sports but excluded from the classroom,
The DomPost, accessed through Stuff.co, this morning points to another piece of what’s best described as Uglyness emanating from another youngster with long hair being excluded from the school and refused re-entry despite offering to tie the offending hairs back at all times while at the edifice of education,
The parents of this particular kid are apparently approaching the Courts to seek remedy and the daughter of ”the chair” of the Board of Trustees has been outed for posting open abuse of the kid on social networks,
My view is that none of this need be occurring, there seems no logical reason/evidence that ”Hair”, its style, or lack of such, has any effect on anyone in the classroom’s ability to learn and the Government need write the law to stop such discrimination occurring…
Most ridiculous news story of the week, and what a message to send to the youth of NZ – Fuck the rules, just get mummy and daddy to buy a court hearing.
My advice is just cut your hair wee man.
I remember back in ’79 when I had my ear pierced for the first time. It wasn’t allowed in school, so every morning I’d take it out and every afternoon I’d put it back in. How simple is that?
Like the third year that grew a beard over the summer holidays and was made to shave it before being allowed to return to school, and facial hair wasn’t even in the rule book. He had his day of ‘fame’ and then everything went back to normal.
Rules are made to be broken, and in the big scheme of things, long hair isn’t a crime, but what a joke those parents are, and what a bad precedent they are are setting.
It’s not about me and ‘the man’, but I’ve never taken a shit sarnie in my life bruv. Fact is, getting a hair cut isn’t going to harm the lad or push him into a life of servitude, however, the signal being sent that he can challenge rules that everyone else has to obey is crass.
The school have every right to insist that he conforms like the other students.
Praise ‘Conformists’ everywhere, what a joke, without non-conformists we all would still be parked up in our caves looking across the seas at the ‘edge of the world’ fearful that should we ever sail there we would drop off,
The Alien came close, drop-kick not quite being off…
It’s a school boy at school disobeying school rules that all have to follow.
Kin ‘el, he’s not Che Guevara.
I know establishment = sh!t for most extremists, but context is a wonderful thing. 😆
My earring experience didn’t stop me getting another five done, or indeed stop me from having shoulder length hair or go a week without shaving.
Viva revolution.
Wow Draco, so having to comply with some hair length requirements at a secondary school now ranks up there with Slavery. I am starting to get the idea that you were put on this earth to be happy about nothing.
Or parked up in suburbia looking across ‘lego land’ to the workplace, the supermarket and the farm lands with the staunch belief that the view encompassed all the possibilities the world has to offer. (Two possibilities for the price of one every second Tuesday between the hours of 12a.m. and 3p.m.)
No. As a fellow long haired git, I object. Thats thinking thats at least 40 years in the past.
When length of hair can affect learning then its fair and reasonable for a school to have a say on things as they want the best outcomes for the student.
When its not going to affect the students learning then its not a school issue.
It’s nothing to do with ‘learning’ and everything to do with complying with the rules that that school sets. When that boy’s parents enroled him in that school they did so on the condition of conforming with the rules set down. If they do not like the rules, then send him, to a different school. Very simple.
Conforming with all sorts of rules is part of daily life. I cannot turn up to my place of employment dressed how ever I want, unshaven, not had a shower etc. If I want to turn up unshaven, smelly or dressed like a bum, then I can expect consequences. Very simple.
How does having your socks pulled up affect learning? It doesn’t. Because that is not the point. The point is if you want to enrol your child at that school, they have rules that are to be complied with, you don’t like it? Enrol your child elsewehere.
Other institutions used to have rules like that – you know, no blacks, no women, no children, no long hair, no muslims, no poms, just white bread thanks, that’s the way we like it. Go somewhere else.
Hey Al1en, where or what is the justification for a school to impose rules like that one? Did they ever consult with the students? Have they ever tried to justify their rules? Or are they simply in the business of making rules for rule making’s sake, and in doing so, encouraging a hopeless culture of unquestioning compliance?
I don’t care if the boy has long hair or not, the issue is breaking a rule then going to court.
I’m sure there are other ways to change things than starting legal action which in my unconsidered opinion, because the rules have been in place for a while, is probably likely to fail.
But just think, I use to drive safely down the road my daughter’s school is on at 50 kph until the speed limit was recently reduced to 40 kph. Rather than get pissy because I can’t do that any more and take the local authority to court, I now drive down that road at 40.
No biggie, right?
Btw, I remember yops and the yts. Not good times to be young and fresh out of school.
Actually, the court will determine whether it is the school that is breaking the rules by imposing such requirements on students.
Like a case years back where a parking ticket got overturned because there were no records that proved that the yellow lines were there with lawful authority, as opposed to just some random dude painting yellow lines…
Interesting hairy sub-thread… I left school just before the Beatles revolutionised hairstyle for males, and caused the whole bloody problem. But I started secondary-teaching in 1970. Being of the ‘Question everything’ persuasion, I sympathised with students who rebelled against the unjustifiable conformity of uniforms and hair-length.
“If we don’t fight them on the trivial things, we will find them fighting us on the serious things” was the boss’s justification, based, I think, on the idea that youth will always look for and find something to rebel against. (James Dean in ‘The Rebel’ is asked, “What are you rebelling against?” He gives the timeless answer: “What have you got?”)
Being a languages teacher I went and lived in France and Germany, where there were no school uniforms, and I came back confirmed in the belief that all our justifications for uniforms were rubbish.
Same boss took me back on at same school.. kids were starting to tell me, “You used to teach my Mum/Dad.” Still uniform fights, so boss decided to poll the parents and ask them : “Do you want school uniforms or not?”
Remembering how the previous generation had complained, I expected a majority to vote uniforms out. Over 80% voted to impose uniforms on their kids just as they had had uniforms imposed on them.
Schools do as their parents ask by and large, and you hair-liberationists are up against one of the sadder aspects of human nature: youngsters rebel against their parents, then turn into replicants of them.
“Actually, the court will determine whether it is the school that is breaking the rules by imposing such requirements on students.”
Expensive way of sorting it out. I agree it’s 2014 and not 1984 (metaphoric and literal), it isn’t such a big deal, and to be fair, he has the right to stand his ground. If anything has taught me, presently dealing with lawyers as I am, it is all about choosing your battles. Some things are must dos, I’m not sure getting a bit of the back is worth the effort. I don’t think it’s a human rights issue, as in based on religious/cultural grounds, it’s just a school rule.
I might well back my kid to make her point, but not to court. Coming from being 3 of 5, I’d say point made, have a week of on me, get the snip, go back to school as a hero rebel for the last year, get up a school wide petition to change the rule, and then put it on his cv when he comes out of school/uni/polytech.
heh – reminds me of my first ever work placement at the beginnings of Thatcherism. Prospective big boss sat me down and said I’d have to cut my hair to get the ‘job’ (Youth Opportunity Programme scheme days).
Then on the first day I discovered I was to be working beside an old hippy with hair half way down his back.
And I think that was the first and last time I allowed a boss to successfully make arbitrary demands of me. Just crossing my mind that maybe I should have gone back in later years and thanked the silly auld bugger. 😉
While Europe is banning cosmetics using animal testing! ….the Chinese insist on animal testing for cosmetics!….China is not animal rights or eco -friendly
The Animal Welfare Amendment Bill is currently before the Primary Production Committee, which is due to report back to parliament at the end of the month. The committee is considering an amendment from Green MP Mojo Mathers, which seeks to add a ban to cosmetic testing on animals.
Many major cosmetic companies which have previously declared themselves “cruelty free”, such as Avon, Estee Lauder and MAC – have started animal testing again because it is now a requirement to enter the lucrative Chinese market. Mandy Carter is the head of campaigns for Save Animals from Exploitation – SAFE.
Religion is the source of much of the worlds problems! … according to retiring QC and humanitarian prisoner advocate Peter Williams
( i would have to add patriarchal monotheistic religions are the problem)
….the rest of this interview by Kathryn Ryan is also worth listening to, as a historical take and slice of New Zealand’s criminal court case histories and some of the colourful characters from NZ’s past.
Williams himself is an admirable character with a great love of the law and justice …He gives some warnings about putting the onus of proof onto the accused that they did NOT do it!
…(Have to agree with this!,,,it would make a mockery of justice…the onus of proof must be put on the prosecution).
xox
Williams/Ryan interview on RNZ was uplifting, in spite of Kathryn trying to inject her opinion. Peter is a fine New Zealander with a fierce sense of humanity and justice.
Is it just me, or is the Winter in Wellington this year particularly mild in comparison with previous events,
Seems to have been a singular lack of screaming ice laden Southerlies so far here in Welly, and i am still on the roam around the mansion in tee-shirt mode, admittedly with my layered approach to bodily heating this has me kitted out with four of them on, but, i have as yet not had to resort to the multi-layered maximum heating arrangement of four hoodies and knitted woolen cap which is my normal attire at this time,
i have had the sneaking suspicion that ”climate change” has also accomplished a subtle changing of the seasons on the calendar and suspect like last year that the ”howlers” will likely occur again at the end of winter, start of spring,(not fun for the keen gardener impatient to get the annual crop into the soil)…
Yeah, bad, the weather here is weirdly warm. I saw the headline in the Dom Post at the beginning of June which declared we were to have a warmer than usual winter and something about El Nino. Last week I think someone (was it Draco?) put up a link from the Guardian talking about the effect that El Nino will have on the planet’s weather systems now and in coming years.
Helpful to get that El Nino perspective after I had been shaking my fist at climate change, which I will continue to shake my fist at anyway.
Observations of weirdness for June:
There is still a good amount of firewood in the garage and there have been nights where I have not lit the fire. The underlay on the bed remains on the “summer side”
Sitting here in trackies and a long sleeved t shirt (I know, I’m a style icon) with a window open.
The garden is BLOOMING! Plants that struggled through the windy summer have now grown and flowered……….that is freaking weird. There is lush new growth on the pittosporums and pohutakawa.
I also reckon we’ll get those howlers back at the equinox which will create damage and stunted growth.
I’ve noticed a clear change dating from about 2009. Winter in Wellington is = Warmer, Sunnier, less Windy than before, Summer though = is definitely Wetter and more Windy. It’s becoming our Monsoon Season.
It was very rare to get more than two or three consecutive Blue Sky days in Winter when I was a kid growing up in Welling-on-Sea in the 70s. Now, it seems to be the norm.
Three years ago, my cousin (a Kiwi who’s lived in London for 30 years), made a trip home to Wellington. She was here from Late November to Late January and there wasn’t one fine day during that whole (supposedly Summer) period.
Interesting observations swordfish (trombone?). 2011 was a particularly balmy and still winter I recall, similar to what we have been experiencing so far.
And speaking of growing up in the 70’s, my memory of the Kapiti Coast, where I grew up was that we had very cold winters with several good hard crunchy frosts underfoot in the morning and the summers were dazzlers.
Oh, I remember the snow alright James, at the end of that HOT winter of 2011. That was a very exciting weather event. I was living in the least snowy part of Wellington at that time which was very disappointing.
I have heard of this pole shift theory and I know of people who absolutely believe in it. Is it a plausible theory?
Jesus, those italics didn’t work too well did they ? (swordfishtrombones and The Bay of Titahi were supposed to be in italics – nothing else !). I’ve not only let the good burghers of The Standard down, much more importantly I’ve let myself down, haven’t I ?
my memory of the Kapiti Coast, where I grew up was that we had very cold winters with several good hard crunchy frosts underfoot in the morning
I remember that in Auckland in 1970s. Going out in the mornings and playing in the frozen grass, feeling it crunch under bare feet. Just don’t seem to get that anymore.
Dunedin’s weather has been causing comment too. Many unseasonably sunny and warm days. Buds coming out on trees. Summer was windy as shit and not so flash. Quite a few noticeably odd rain events too – immense volumes of water in very short periods (over a few minutes) causing flooding.
Sounds very similar to Wellington, Bill. Warmer, sunnier Winters and some really intense rainfalls in Summer over the last 5 years. And, you know, it’s actually just a little bit disquieting. Does nae seem natural.
But, then, I’m increasingly thinking of Wellington and Dunedin as twins these days in any case. For a start, Dunedin’s a dead-ringer for Wellers c1950 – harbour, hillside suburbs, low-rise city centre. But, more importantly, both are politically and ideologically well to the Left of the rest of New Zealand (which is no doubt why both cities are coming in for a particularly hard time from this government). And now it seems on the old meteorology front as well.
So would John Banks have got off scot free if he had held a charity auction to raise $$ for his mayoralty bid and had KDC bid, say for example, $50,000 for a bottle of wine?
If Labour have no records of Donghua Liu’s alleged “donation” of $15,000 possibly because its come via an auction, then is this yet another way that political parties can hide donations?
Sometimes I think that the two main political parties set up rules while having back door escape plans so said rules do not apply to them.
I do not see how you think Im drawing any bow here.
What Im saying is that it would appear that the two major parties have ways of circumventing the rules that they themselves agree to.
Your suggestion that maybe a MP didnt know about the wine so by implication must be innocent (Barker is in the photo after all) is dangerously close to the failed Banks defence line.
given that labour apparently genuinely didn’t know that L won the auction, I’d say that it was a truly anonymous donation (if it counts as a donation).
As opposed to pretend-anonymous, also known as electoral fraud. as banks found out.
My issue isn’t so much that there are ways to maybe circumvent the law with tact and discretion. Trusts, auctions, raffles, all good, in moderation.
The trouble is where the circumvention becomes blatant and therefore illegal, IMO: getting donors to split donations to remain anonymous, paying a thousand times the sticker price for an “auction” item, that sort of thing.
In the case of fundraising, I’d maybe say that where cumulative purchases from one individual are over the donation limit, they should be published in the donations register. But even then the party can own a going concern that does exceedingly well out of a few customers, e.g. tech advice at $1000/hr.
But really, despite being imperfect, the system completely falls down only when a massive cock thinks he has an equally massive brain, so well and truly crosses the bounds into “illegal”.
And its dishonest to think that nobody in Labour (or the Nats for you can be sure they will be no better) knew who the kind man who wanted the wine was. And theres no chance that the Labour hierarchy thought it was a generous buyer of wine, for the sake of a nice drink.
Its a rort when the Nats do it, its a rort when Labour does it, and its a rort when any of the other parties does it too.
My objection is that any parties do it, as its not excusable. And you cant say its okay coz the other team is doing it too.
But I do note that both of the major parties have difficulty dealing with generous Chinese business people.
I’m fucking fed up with the argument that there’s some sort of moral equivalence between doing favours outside your job description for a donor, and doing your damned job for someone who might make a donation years later.
If you can’t see the difference, that’s not my problem.
Can you demonstrate where the request for information about procedure crossed the line into the “advocacy” claimed in the headline?
Yes, I know that a perception of wrongdoing is all that counts in the “game” you’re “playing”, and I also know that the grounds for this perception are missing.
Professor Jonathan Boston, co-author of Child Poverty in New Zealand, said at the book’s launch in Auckland last night that he saw worse poverty in some Kiwi families than he saw when he spent a month late last year in Delhi slums where his wife, Dr Mary Hutchinson, worked as a volunteer doctor for a Christian charity.
I am glad that Professor Boston mentions families, and not just children, as if their existence occurred independently of families. I also think that people do not always appreciate that when inequality is introduced into a previously egalitarian, developed society it brings with it a particular kind of hardship: the high costs of living in the developed society remain, but for many the means for meeting those costs are no longer available.
“Instead, the best thing people can do is make MP’s like Simon Bridges politically extinct at the next election.”
Exactly what I was thinking last night watching the news that oil exploration permits have been granted in the marine reserve where our darling highly endangered Maui dolphins live.
What kind of a fucker would be ok with that? Simon Bridges of course. And people of Tauranga, what do you plan on doing with this one man tornado of environmental destruction? Vote him out or keep him on?
Tauranga is as blue as they come, but surely even they can’t support someone as incompetent and vacuous as Bridges for a third term.
Except, that the letter is not lobbying in support of Liu’s residency.
It’s an entirely appropriate request from an MP on behalf of one of his constituents requesting an ETA for a decision.
And an immediate call for his resignation by John Armstrong
And Liu’s donation was supposedly”secret” now. We are poorly served by the press, but, Labour are poorly served by themselves, before going full throttle about Liu shouldn’t they have checked about stuff like this?
Cunliffe needs to come out swinging on this and fight it tooth or nail or he probably should resign for being too much of a sap.
or perhaps he has plunged to judith collins level so can stay. But whydo you compare him to worth. Totally different situations. Perhaps compare him to key or williamson or collins. No wait, williamson interfered in a domestic violence case… So lets compare with key and collins
“Labour are poorly served by themselves, before going full throttle about Liu shouldn’t they have checked about stuff like this?”
Totally agree – it’s obvious that Labour do not want to win this election! Muppets!
Labour – if you can’t pull yourselves together NOW get out of the way and let others who have the best interests of the country at heart take over. The people of New Zealand can no longer afford this incompetency.
What you mean check every single letter written over the past 15 years? Honest DC is talented but I do not know anyone whose memory is that phenomenal.
So why didn’t Barker, Carter, O’Connor or any number who knew Labour had dealings with Liu, just get in touch with Cunliffe and warn him, or were they just content to let him keep up the attack on National, knowing that the silver bullet was waiting?
For someone who has been in parliament a long time (15 years), he such makes a fuckload of mistakes and he sure can’t stop lying about it. Dare I say it, his level of deceit is reaching pathological levels
Today on the radio “I was a backbencher at the time of the letter”…despite being Assoc Minister of Finance…
The guy is National’s best asset.
[lprent: I hate to break this to you, but an associate minister is a backbencher if they don’t have other ministerial portfolios. They are often a trainee. A apprentice. Learning the ropes of how to become a minister.
Tell me, are the right who wander in here as really as gormless and ignorant of how your government operates as the morons I have had to read tonight seem to be?
I guess they can’t be. There are a few bright ones I have run across. ]
Right wing blogs start going on about Cunliff being rolled close to the election so that the party doesn’t get to vote.
Information about Something that happened with Cunliff 7 years ago comes out just now (admitidly this could be down to the other Liu stuff going on and the timing has been very poor).
I know they are some very far apart dots but is it at all posible that this has been set in motion by some of those who want to replace Cunliff? Have they really stooped that far that they would bring in DPF and Slater to help them take the top job and deliberately go around what the party membership set up? It would work in to the narrative that DPF has been putting out that there are memebers of Labor who would rather spend the next 3 years in oposition but in charge rather than working for Cunliff.
Either way this isn’t going to simply dissapear. Cunliff is going to get hammered with it. Over and over again. If this was something started from within the party it is a disgusting undermining of the party from within adn actually shows that they are not worthy of Government benches.
Hopefullly this leads to labor supporters at worst switchign to other parties on the left. I doubt that though.
So….asking how long a decision is likely to take is the same as advocating positively for somebody’s residency?! Oh dear. It seems that many Nat Party cheerleaders need to get their heads out of their arses.
The truth will out..
I knew something stunk when Mike Williams was asked at the weekend and used the word honestly.
At least the caucus can boot him now and not have to consult the lumpen masses for a replacement.
12:59 AM story breaks about the 2003 letter
1:00 PM John Armstrong column calling for Cunliffe’s head
how they have fallen, The NZ Herald used to be more subtle
“But that does not wash. Either deliberately or through a lapse of memory, Cunliffe has been economical with the truth.” does Armstrong really want to be playing this card?
agree. if he has been dishonest or misleading then in my opinion he is right up there with john key. and anyone calling for his head must, logically, call for john key and judith collins heads. not illegal but not telling the truth or misleading.
Let me ask you John, how many of John Key’s malfeasant Ministers have you called on to resign this year over matters far greater involving the mis-use and abuse of Ministerial positions?
Fucking none that’s how many, because they’re the team you are with you fucking bitter Tory loser.
Looking forward to you losing your access to the PM’s office after September you sorry excuse for a journalist.
Oh the comment i was replying too has gone and I’m on the bottom.
“David Cunliffe to reporters on Tuesday:
Q: Do you recall ever meeting Liu?
A: I don’t recall ever meeting him, no.
Q: Did you have anything to do with the granting of his permanent residency?
A: No, I did not.
Q: Did you advocate on his behalf at all?
A: Nope.
Q:Were you aware of any advice against granting him permanent residency?
A: Not to my recollection.”
Yep this looks bad and the you know whos will be all over it. More time spent on explaining, backtracking and less for the election, spun right back to personalities away from policy. Seems a really simple thing but apparently not.
I guess we have to look at the substance of the thing. After all, Maurice William explicitly stated he was not advocating on behalf of the man when he called the Police. That was rightly seen as an ineffective disclaimer and the mention of the the investments at stake was taken as being damning.
I suppose the question has to be, would the recipient of the letter reasonably infer that the letter was advocacy.
Only if you see the Williamson case for what it was, a co-ordinated left wing/left wing media attack over nothing more than an electorate MP doing his job.
He never attempted to get Mr Liu off charges, he simply rang to ask the progress on the case, no different to what David Cunliffe has been shown to have done for the same person!
But nor did Williamson ask for any particular outcome. He just said he was making enquiries and pointed out that Liu was investing a lot of money in New Zealand.
I’m not saying there’s no difference. What I am saying if there is a difference it is a matter of gravity having regard to the distinction you have made, rather than a distinction as to the nature of communication.
If the recipient of the request perceives it as an attempt to influence the outcome, they have several choices.
Ignore it.
Let it influence the decision.
Authoritarian followers would let it influence the decision. Therefore we need policy to identify authoritarian followers and ensure they never rise to positions of influence, and good luck getting that one past the National Party.
Okay, so do you think that what Maurice Williamson had effectively removed the risk of their being undue influence, on the basis that he said he didn’t want to influence the police?
I think the risk of corruption is always present, and that officials need to be suspicious of any request they get until they’ve thoroughly investigated links to overseas and/or vested interests, and when it’s a police investigation they have to feel confident enough to show Oravida the door no matter what the minister says, or their personal fear of acid attacks.
And reportedly Maurice Williamson “started by saying that in no way was he looking to interfere with the process.” So his communication also was not advocacy – at least on its face.
That statement was seen, rightly IMO, as not subtracting from how such a phone call would have been interpreted by the recipient.
…and if you can’t distinguish between a police matter and a residency application I’d like you to consider this punch in the face a gesture of respect and appreciation.
I don’t your meaning. The question was whether it was advocacy or not. On balance, I think you could probably say it would have appeared it to have been.
Whether it was improper or not is a different matter, I agree.
If the problem is the possibility of compliant corrupt officials who take MPs doing their job with a nod and a wink then the solution is rid officialdom of authoritarian followers.
Williamson started by saying that because, IMO, he knew he was breaking the rules. His subsequent language implicated actual advocacy and bordered upon threatening the police.
What Cunliffe wrote amounted to Hey guys, can you provide a timetable to Mr Lui?, thanks. And that was it, done.
There is, quite simply, no comparison between the cases.
Fact is Karol – this incompetency is all that is needed for Labour to ensure the Labour vote stays home on 20th Sept. Every policy that attacks the “strugglers” (delaying pension, cgt, etc) – every fumble of the ball – every apparent inconsistency is all it takes. It seems to me that Labour are trying their very best to loose (has Cairns been in their ear?). It makes me fume!! The country cannot afford another term of National – but it looks like it the “alternative” is not much cop either!
So, just to be clear …
– he may or may not have met him as a constituent
– did not have anything to do with his granting of permanent residency
– advocated for Liu to receive a timeframe for his application
– was unaware of any advice against granting residency
I imagine it’d be easy for David to forget having one of his staff jot off a letter to Immigration Service requesting that a constituent be given a timeline.
The “bad look”, is in the Herald who are making a hell of a mountain out of a molehill.
Given it’s a pretty ubiquitous sort of request for an MP’s office, the request from Lui may well have been a phone call or letter, and the staff dealt with it.
Mr Cunliffe may have seen it for the first time when it passed his desk to be signed – looked above board, signed, and promptly forgotten.
I’d be at least willing to listen to what he has to say – I did with John Key at the beginning.
It’s not as if he was a larger than life, flamboyant businessman who threw a ton of cash around the electorate, having parties and paying for extravagant public fireworks shows
“Mr Cunliffe may have seen it for the first time when it passed his desk to be signed – looked above board, signed, and promptly forgotten.”
John Banks may have done the same thing, I am sure you also gave him the benefit of the doubt?
Of course those auctioned bottlles of wine and books were purchased by Mr Liu at hugely inflated prices without any prior knowledge of anyone from the Labour Party. They would never ask him to buy a book for $15,000 rather than donate directly…..
Do you really need to have it pointed out to you that Banks still denies his crime whereas Cunliffe, who hasn’t committed any, called a press conference to admit a mistake?
Do you really need to have it pointed out to you that David Cunliffe just called a press conference to say ”I did not advocate for him. A letter has just come to my attention which is 11 years old, which simply asks how long a process will take… I do not believe I have done anything wrong.” How is that admitting a mistake?
“Do you really think the two cases are equivalent?” Well I guess that will come down to whether or not anyone within Labour knew Mr Liu wanted to donate to the Labour Party but wanted to stay anonymous or not. We will have to see what further details arise….
The third question is the crucial one to be worried about. While MPs do often offer some help to constituents, they may forget details re meetings and letters written. But having written a letter for Liu and then later attacking the Nats for receiving large donations from migrants like him, that sadly smells too much of double standards.
No wonder David Cunliffe is so cautious on so much. On the other hand, the Herald is at it, lobbying for the government, so to say, with a campaign of smear and undermining. It will certainly not make me vote National, I would never vote for Key or Nats, so it will surely be a small party on 20 September.
I am indeed tempted to protest vote this election, yes to send a shock signal to the rotten political establisment of this country, it needs a thorough shake-up.
But having written a letter for Liu and then later attacking the Nats for receiving large donations from migrants like him, that sadly smells too much of double standards.
So why wouldn’t David Cunliffe do his job as an electorate MP, completely impartially, for a constituent?
Where in doing your expected job is the “double standards”?
Well, I am not so sure that it may all just stay with this one letter. Let us pray that not more comes to the surface. David Cunliffe was probably doing his job as MP then, but as Liu appears to have tried to gain some influence by approaching various politicians from various parties, then Labour ones (who were then in government), and more recently National ones, who are now in government, I fear that Cunliffe or his office may have offered some more assistance than just writing that letter.
The Chinese business people believe very much in networking, and they like to lobby politicians and government officials more intensely than what ordinary Kiwi or other “western” business people may be doing. It often resembles a kind of “embrace”, hard to contain and keep a distance in.
If more should surface, things will not look good.
After Cunliffe fronted up on radio and television, and did rather well on the Paul Henry Show, he will have regained some trust. But given the continued attacks, the media are too busy reporting on these side issues, rather than present and discuss Labour’s policies.
Labour’s leader, party workers and MPs really should be doing better in regards to dealing with media, and with their whole strategy. The impression by the public will largely not be such a good one, I am afraid.
And dealing with the media is a highly sensitive and crucial matter, and they should be more confident and aggressive when addressing these attacks by the Herald and others.
” Did you have anything to do with the granting of his permanent residency?”
“No I did not.”
Hang on there. That is still true isn’t it?
DC as an MP wrote to find out how long would it be before an Investment decision be processed. Not an application for residency is it?
“DC as an MP wrote to find out how long would it be before an Investment decision be processed”
. …and maybe some office boffin wrote for him…after all MPs get rather busy at times and their office assistants do reply or follow up on requests…..so maybe he just didnt do it himself …hence he cant remember……and god knows how many letters MPs sign every day without looking closely at what they are signing….but just trust in the judgment of their assistants
( btw…when my sister was about five she was desperate to have a pet monkey …nothing could dissuade her… so it was suggested that she write to PM Hollyoak for permission ( snigger snigger)….and low and behold she got back a very charming letter explaining that the laws of New Zealand did not allow for pet monkeys but thanking her for her letter and drawing of a pet monkey …and wishing her the very best ….I am sure Hollyoak was much too busy to have written this letter and some assistant wrote it ….but he did sign it!….and my sister very pleased with his response and accepted the law of the land )
Yeah of course Chooky, anyone seeing how the office, and, for most of these things its the electorate office, of an MP operates will know that it is the office staff and personal secretary that handles half the people that attend over such matters,
Immigration is a pretty standard one and it is likely that on the day David Cunliffe signed the letter asking for an update on where the particular process for Liu was at He,(Cunliffe), would have signed any number of such letters having been told by the personal secretary they were standard immigration inquiries,
The next tranche of letters Cunliffe signed were probably to the local DHB as medical matters also figure heavily in an MP’s electoral work through the local office, and, on it would go,
i see nothing wrong with Cunliffe being queried on such things, Armstrong’s idiots clarion call aside,
my view is that they are all deserving of such treatment simply based upon the ”buy your way into New Zealand” policies that both Labour and National have operated over the years,
That such policies are now turning round and biting them both on the A is a rather poetic piece of Justice…
You guys waste so much of your lives denying the bleedingly obvious. Of course one of David’s loyal and talented office workers wrote the letter. Yu have no idea of the huge volume of enquiries that his office had, how professional they were in handling these enquiries and how unlikely it is that he would remember the contents of a letter that he signed 11 years ago.
Never heard of Liu, never wrote on his behalf….how many do you need. The stupid thing is that Cunliffe took this fight to National, knowing he had these skeletons in his closet – and then lied when caught.
and yet collins and key survive their proven lies. If cunliffe has lied, id love his press conference to be his resignation. Then i will watch while the right say he didnt need to resign… To justify hanging onto their own liars.
Or is this a case of the Left being two faced? Right wing politician lies, the Left scream ‘he should resign!’ David Cunliffe lies, ‘it’s okay Right wing politicians do too….’
Right wing politician (John Key) has a secret trust for his family, the Left scream ‘it’s corruption!’, David Cunliffe has a secret trust for hiding donations from public scruitany, ‘it’s okay, its within the rules’.
Or is this a case of Bob spinning like a top, presenting false assertions as fact then drawing spurious conclusions, and therefore providing yet more evidence that Bob embodies deceitful partisan trash?
‘Spinning like a top, presenting false assertions as fact then drawing spurious conclusions, and therefore providing yet more evidence of deceitful partisan trash?’
I like that OAB, although that should be the preface for BLiP’s list, or perhaps you just don’t like the fact I have pointed out that commentators like yourself like to think you have principles, but once those pricinples are held up to left wing politicians they fall away exposing the underlying political spin and bullshit that your sanctimony usually hides.
No, Bob, I am challenging your assertions. They are false. A trust that is declared isn’t secret, by definition. Key’s trusts are not secret either, for that matter: their purpose was exposed years ago: to subvert the law regarding conflicts of interest.
The National Party uses trusts to hide the identity of its donors, ostensibly from its own MPs, but these trusts are no secret either.
Your pretend equivalence is a good play, Bob, but it fails the reality check at several key points.
cunnliffe didn’t just send a letter asking about the progress of lius’ immigration-application..
“.. Cunliffe said yesterday he had never met Chinese-born Liu, 53, and did not press for him to receive permanent residency.
However, a file held by Immigration New Zealand, released this afternoon, shows a letter from 2003 in which Cunliffe detailed Liu’s plans to set up an export venture.
Cunliffe’s letter, written on parliamentary letterhead and including a photo of the MP, shows he met with Liu – contrary to his assurances yesterday…”
Hey phillip where is the proof that Cunliffe met Liu? Cunliffe’s office had people attend all the time seeking assistance and they then get him to sign letters seeking information. You would be amazed how many people his office has helped.
just for the sake of factual accuracy, it is possible to receive help from an mp and never meet them. In 1994 i wrote my mp about a problem with acc. Although in opposition she interceded on my behalf and within 10 days the problem was resolved. We never met or spoke.
That is NOT a defence of any cunliffe may have done, just supporting the view that you can not meet someone but still help.
Cunliffe’s letter, written on parliamentary letterhead and including a photo of the MP, shows he met with Liu – contrary to his assurances yesterday…”
You better back this statement up, if you can. How does the letter show that he met with Liu? And that the letter wasn’t from notes taken by a staff member, for instance, or something done over the phone?
Someone a few days back suggested a $500 donation limit to politicians via any single individual, company or trust and I think that is a bloody good idea.
edit – this was to karol’s “get the money out of electioneering”
It shows that he did some advocacy for a constituent, whom he may or may not have actually met.
The details of the letter show that Cunliffe has some knowledge of the constituent’s situation, but that can be passed on by a third party, it does not necessarily require Liu be present to do that.
The bigger issue is whether is a VRWC beat up or if its the second coming of the ABC club. I suspect the timing of the “leaked” information points to the latter.
If what the NZ Herald is reporting on David Cunliffe is true, that he had on 13 April 2003 written a kind of supportive letter to NZ Immigration, somehow supporting a residence application by controversial Chinese businessman Dongha Liu, now before the courts, and exposed as a large donor to the National Party (and supposedly also Labour), then the election may this year be all decided.
This is not good news, not a good look, I fear, and Labour are now stuffed, as they have not done their honest “return to the roots” and cleaned out their top party members and MPs from the rot that still sits in there.
I am shocked, to be honest, but not quite that suprised, as even Cunliffe is more to the right of centre, than left, and his recent ambiguity over the last months did not convince. So what is David Cunliffe going to say re this, yesterday denying he had ever done anything to support Liu?
So it will be a interesting time in Parliament today, I presume.
This election will be the one for small parties to boost their support, as both large parties are clearly too corrupt to be trusted now.
“This election will be the one for small parties to boost their support, as both large parties are clearly too corrupt to be trusted now.”
Ain’t that the truth, although I’m hopeful that the Greens take over as the second largest party in parliament as Labour are as much of a disgrace as National.
“However, it would be very helpful to Mr Liu to be advised of an estimated period of time in which he could expect a decision on his case.”
1. Nothinmg wrong with it. It is the job of an MP.
2. It was in 2003. I can’t remember what I did in 2013!
I am not “pirating”, as my name is descriptive of my perhaps a bit “savage” views and approaches re some issues, but perhaps you suggest I should write it with a small “s” then.
I will not bother raising questions re your name, as we are not here to discuss names, but topics, issues and other commenter’s comments on such, thanks.
Best wishes, I will look forward to other comments from you.
if it is true, it ought not be a good time for national with their liu entangle,ent, collins with oravida and key playing golf with shu fir “charity” when in fact 50k went to the national party… And yet they are at 50%.
Worth more than a pause i would have thought. And both collins and key lied about donations and work for donors
I will be very glad when the Herald introduces a paywall because it will keep me from the temptation to go and watch the car wreck.
They just blatantly have it out for Labour and I can’t take much more of their so-called ‘journalism’.
First they have Tamsyn Parker misleading the public about Labour’s KiwiSaver policy and now they are dutifully ravaging Cunliffe on the orders of the National Party research unit.
I’d make a complaint but I don’t even think I can be bothered anymore. NZ has no functioning media and people will have to make their own enquiries.
Nobody forced Cunliffe to die in a ditch over the Liu ties with National, just as nobody forced him to lie about his own history with Liu or Labour to lie about recieving money from Liu after getting residency (against official advice) and entertaining Labour minister in China.
Right, lets just blame the Herald for reporting it.
Have to agree with you. Surely someone working for Labor said 2 days ago when questions about Labor and Liu came up soul dhave started a search for all links. This incompetance is inexcusable and may honestly cost the lef this election.
What lies? Apart from Collin’s that is. The NZ Herald is a discredited hatchet job rag, I’m just waiting for the banner “Labour in ruins” headlines the day before election day.
Labour should have been on the front foot about this. – The man did after all buy a book at auction for a very large sum. When he came to light with his involvement with National alarm bells should have been ringing in Labour HQ as well. Now it all looks messy and tarred with the same brush – no matter how hard Labour try to explain it.
Frankly I am consigning myself to the fact that with these incompetents of the main “Left” party – National will sleep walk to the treasury benches – to the detriment of us all.
Labour are playing a hopeless game – their strategies and their tactics are appalling. Not only are they turning away their base supporters with extending the age to entitlement for Super (how many 50+ to 64 year olds are going to vote for that! many just hanging on in there in a work place that is becoming more and more oppressive), Turning away the “strugglers” who have scrapped together enough to buy a bach someplace, exacerbating the plight of young workers – already having to repay tertiary loans and trying to save for a place to live, with another imposition – compulsory Kiwisaver. If that is not enough, they keep on dropping the ball, and kicking for touch. They haven’t a hope in hades of getting more than 30% if they are lucky.
The only hope is that the people will see where the true future of NZ lies; and switch to a Party that truly represents the future of NZ (and its not on the right).
Oh stop it lol. On the bright side, the more centrist and 3rd way Labour become, the more room we will have for proper Left Wing parties.
Not only are they turning away their base supporters with extending the age to entitlement for Super (how many 50+ to 64 year olds are going to vote for that!
Yeah it’s election suicide. National are going to successfully position themselves as the party of the struggling older worker in the TV debates just on that one platform, and there is nothing Labour will be able to do about that if they stick with this kamikaze policy.
Is there not a Labour MP who can keep a clean sheet? FFS! the election is there to be won if they stop F!!king around, but oh no, little surprises keep popping up, playing into the Nat’s hands!!
Get someone in there who can keep the members in check, and who can control the caucus with an iron fist.
How about: “This National Party beat-up shows they’re getting desperate. MPs fulfill requests like this – for information about procedure – all the time.”
Suddenly the Internet Party may start looking quite “acceptable” to more voters, given what the MPs and leaders of Nats and Labour have been up to.
Rich pricks are donating and discretely lobbying for support and likely favours all over the place, come back, Transparency International, please, do a re-check on these bizarre claims New Zealand (Inc) is one of the “least corrupt” countries in the world. No, the governments here are mostly just very smart at pulling the wool over people’s eyes.
I think there is probably more transparency and honesty in certain “third world countries” than there is in NZ, well the days will come where NZ Inc will join the “developing world”, given over dependence on primary product exports, with little added value.
Should have posted this here:
” Did you have anything to do with the granting of his permanent residency?”
“No I did not.”
Hang on there. That is still true isn’t it?
DC as an MP wrote to find out how long would it be before an Investment decision be processed. Not an application for residency is it?
Calm down. The letter does not show any misdemeanour on Cunliffe’s part. Brain fades which are not in fact brain fades (like forgetting the no of shares in Transrail or forgetting a helicopter ride to a mansion) are different.
So the letter shows that Cunliffe lobbied in support of Liu’s citizenship application? Nah, I think you’re lying, as a perfect expression of your low character.
You’d better quote the relevant part of the letter to prove me wrong.
Er, no, John Banks and John Key were lying and ‘conveniently’ forgot.
Furthermore, the John’s cases what they lied about were materially bad things to lie about. Cunliffe’s crime (if you can even call it that) is saying he didn’t do something, when evidence comes to light that he might have. Big deal?
Holding a press conference and admitting a fuck-up is what exactly? Everyone has brain-fades, they become suspicious when they’re a little too convenient. Remind me how convenient this one is.
So far the only substantive criticism of Cunliffe comes from Danyl, that well known right winger. No, wait.
The point is that it is now open season any any MP who’s ever written a letter on behalf of a constituent looking for information, whereas previously it was only open season on MPs who divert Ministerial visits to China to materially benefit their husband’s company.
but you dont think key or collins have done anything wrong, despite being caught in untruths around significant donors, do you?
When john key, responsible for gcsb, met with one person to discuss a leader for the gcsb, do you believe he could not only forget that he recommended fletcher and agreed to contact him, but when a sked remembered it as iain rennie recommending fletcher?
If your answer is yes, then you must accept that cunliffe didnt recall writing a letter in 2003 asking inz to give liu a time feame for his application?
IFf your answer is no, can we agree collins, key and cunliffe need to go?
In all probability, neither Cunliffe nor Collins actually did anything which risks the security of the nation, in their dealings with some Chinese businessmen.
But neither Cunliffe nor Collins can pass the “Electorate Sniff Test” as both appear to have said something that is factually incorrect, and have both been found out.
The real difference is that Collins does not (and now never will) lead her party and never have to go onto a leaders debate and risk being questioned on matters of credibility.
Cunliffe, unfortunately, will go forward to some leaders debate and will be open to accusations (pretty unjustified ones really) that hes a bit economical with the truth.
We need a strong opposition to keep the Government honest, and we arent geting it at all at this time. The Labour MPs need to realise that their opposition is on the other side of the House.
Asking for someone to be advised of a timetable is not the same as lobbying in favour of their citizenship application. I can see why The Herald is pretending otherwise. I’m not sure why so many lefties agree with them though.
Once again, for those who clearly don’t get it, the media had their cosy relationship with the NZLP leadership selection process disrupted and retaliation is inevitable. That means they pick through everything looking for things to cast a negative light upon. There’s no way around this, and it doesn’t matter what you do. If you say you like apples they’ll say you have something against oranges.
That said, it works, or Tories wouldn’t own media outlets nor fill the ones they can’t buy with shills.
Fair points of course. The perception will be fanned and that is their plan. I’d like to know why they were snooping down that hole anyway – who set them on the scent. Also I thought politicians were smart enough to know that unequivocal ‘nos’ often come back and bite them on the bum. Jeez just get them to watch a bit of ‘Yes Minister”.
Is that what it looks like to authoritarian followers? Better make sure immigration fires them all if that’s what they read into requests for information.
Quite right Karol. Who can remember routine letters they wrote 11 years ago, forchristsake?
I think Cunliffe should go on the attack here, saying this was a minor matter 11 years ago and asking what normal person could remember this and drawing a distinction between this and Williamson’s intervention in the legal system.
On the information we have this is a beat up and Armstrong has lost all credibility here; one rule for Key and Collins, another for Cunliffe.
+1 Karol
I really cannot see what the fuss is about. This is a media beat-up orchestrated by the right. It’s a shame his office did not remember this but it was 10 years ago and it is a standard constituent MP letter. He isn’t writing as a cabinet minister, he isn’t approaching the police about a criminal conviction. The letter just asked for an indication of how long the decision on an application is likely to take. It doesn’t suggest the application needs to be granted because this guy is rich. As for the memory lapse this is nothing compared to the memory lapses John Key has had over more serious matters over the past few years.
+1 Karol and Karen. I cannot believe the vitriol with which David Cunliffe is being pursued, and the lack of basis for it. They must have dug deep to come up with this one: 11 years old and too ordinary to be memorable. I am so sick of the NZ right wing and their tiresome baying hounds.
+1 Karol and Karen. I cannot believe the vitriol with which David Cunliffe is being pursued, and the lack of basis for it.
It’s a measure of how desperate the Right Wing are right now. They know that David Cunliffe, PM, means that they will be locked out of power for a good long number of terms.
and actually, the desperate attempts of the gnats are, quite strangely (!), bringing my party vote back firmly to Labour to strengthen support for Cunliffe …. this despite some Labour policies that i don’t agree with
As I said in the other thread, it’s crucial that Labour don’t respond in kind with trying to dish out dirt on the NATs.
~94 days left until election day. Labour has to push out into the public arena positive policy of what it will actively do in the first year of office.
This is not a time to get side tracked by NAT games, this is a time to demonstrate to the electorate a government-in-waiting eager to get on with the job of governing the nation.
I’m left. These days I vote Green – and have volunteered to help them this election – not a party member though. I’m not a great fan of the current Labour caucus – on balance.
Anyway.
I just care about the hypocritical smearing done by the right and the compliant MSM.
The most anyone can say is that Team Cunliffe have been sloppy.
You see that’s the disappointing thing in NZ – the number of political partisans that only care about the hypocritical smearing done by their opponents and then go on and do the exact same thing themselves next week ……. and the bitching in NZ at the moment about the compliant MSM from the left and right side of the political spectrum, pathetic can’t we just all agree that the MSM is just pretty shit rather than accusing them of any particular imagined political bias to explain their shitness.
Oh puleeze: confirmation and cognitive biases are inescapable: democracy only works insofar as it can eliminate bias in the decision-making process.
So we all do it, and since we all do it, we all point it out in one another: what are we supposed to do, just sit there while John Key claims ignorance of Springboks and intimate knowledge of invisible environmental science that proves our 100% purity?
Think of it like peer-review, and pay attention to the timing.
Which is why i wont vote for ACT! National or Labour… Oh and UF.
The only way to get rid of the loose use of the truth is to vote for those who discuss and proffer policies, solutions and a high standard of behaviour.
my benchmark is truth. If our leaders, in all their forms twist and manipulate words to obscure truths we cannot expect tge rest of the fish to escape the rot.
So now there’s a letter signed by David Cunliffe that has either a) not been read, only signed by DC, or b) basically a forged document sent out with his signature, but without his knowing or approval….
Also open season for any MP or party who hasn’t properly declared donations – looks like some great fun to be had as the Nats and Labour nuke each other all the way to the election.
I don’t have access to trademe at work (because some dicks overused it to the point of being blatant), but I have found an auction that mets the criteria so far set by the tory shitmerchants: an auction where people paid for a copy of a book signed by Helen clark.
Well known New Zealanders have teamed up with Books for Babes to auction a selection of favourite children’s books on TradeMe ( http://www.trademe.co.nz). All profits raised will help Books for Babes bring its programme to children across New Zealand.
Prime Minister Helen Clark and National Party Leader John Key have both donated their favourite books, along with other political figures including Jeanette Fitzsimons, John Banks and Tim Shadbolt.
Other famous donors include Hilary Barry, Leah Panapa, Troy Flavell, Anna Scarlett, The Edge Morning Madhouse, bro’Town, Suzanne Paul and Suzy Cato.
[…]
All 20 books in the auction have been purchased new and are signed inside by their donors.
Can someone look it up on Trademe and see if the Clark book went for $15k? Might explain why Labour are having difficulty finding it in their accounts.
Trademe don’t appear to keep auctions going back that far publicly accessible. The booksforbabes.org.nz website has a snapshot from 2008 on Wayback Machine, but it doesn’t seem to mention anything about the auction or it’s outcome.
Crikey! It was only yesterday that I described Labour polling at 20% as “BM’s wet dream” and here he is confirming his nocturnal emissions. Funny old world, eh?
Under ordinary circumstances the revelation that David Cunliffe wrote a letter of advocacy for Donghua Liu wouldn’t amount to much. Cunliffe didn’t do anything wrong and he wrote the letter eleven years ago.
These aren’t ordinary circumstances though. The unfolding story of Liu’s donation has almost certainly been managed by the PM’s office and they’ve earned their paychecks this week and set David Cunliffe up something awful. He was given the opportunity to deny ever having contact with Liu and stupidly took it, at which point a document proving that he did was immediately released.
We’re going to hear a lot about how this proves Cunliffe is ‘tricky’ because that’s National’s talking point. I think it’s a bit worse than that: it proves Cunliffe is a gullible sucker. He blundered his way into a classic media trap in which he denies a small story and the denial is then proved false which becomes a major story because it directly attacks the politician’s credibility. Aspiring Prime Ministers are supposed to be a bit more savvy.
to clarify, if key is caught in a lie(example below) it is irrelevant even tho he is pm, but cunliffe caught in a lie is too stupid to be pm, that was your point tgrough this thread infused?
John key said he played golf with shu, of oravida, for “charity”, when it was for 50k to the national party
John key, as head of gcsb, said iain rennie recommended ian fletcher when it was actually key who recommended him and agreed to be the one to contact him?
John key, during a recession, said he had to get the bmws cos labour had committed to them. Not true at all
John key said labour committed govt to paying out scf. Not true, the guarantee was renewed by bill english and contrary to treasury advice
not really – makes you looks shifty. Especially if you think you’d recall the guy.
The thing is, that letter would be in Liu’s immigration file. Which is in possession of the government. And obviously being used for political gain.
Whereas Cunliffe largely has to search all correspondence by his office and hope nothing gets missed. In the time it takes to respond. So if he doesn’t remember, he’s screwed.
Who’s electorate was Liu in when Cunnliffe was approached, I wonder? Did L do the “approach all MPs in my area” thing? Probably. At least 4 years before any possible donation.
A far cry from personally calling police about a party donor.
Shades of Paula Bennett and the Privacy Commission. I wonder how Mr. Liu enjoys being used as a political football by the beneficiaries of his largesse.
Nice parallel construction gone on here I think…an insider who knows about the existence of the letter leaks it to the Tories…who put together an OIA for a letter that they already know exists because of the leak. And voila, look what they discovered just by chance.
Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the Herald could have just requested copies of all letters written by Members of Parliament in respect of Mr Liu? I’m not sure that the existence of a leak is needed to account for all the known facts.
Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the Herald could have just requested copies of all letters written by Members of Parliament in respect of Mr Liu?
Yes it is. Have a look at what can be requested in a OIA at some stage. It is quite limited and you must be quite specific.
Brilliantly played by the blue team and supported beautifully by the ABCers.
The timing is superb.
Key in the US shaking hands and being all matey matey with the POTUS, while back home his challenger(snort) is getting crucified for his incompetence and out right shiftiness.
It would have gone better if they had an actual crime (like signing a false electoral return) or incredibly dodgy behaviour (like parliamentary speeches about tranzrail when owning shares in the company), rather than this damp squib.
Really – why? Who benefits? Not National – this is very much an inside job. Look in the caucus room for Labour and you will find the person/people behind this stitch up job.
National love having Cunliffe as LOTO – it suits them. They will be fuming he is in the doo-doo over this. Happy to see him squirm for sure… but strategically it doesn’t suit them one bit.
If your loking for who benefits then look at ABC – its much more likely. Play the Oravida card, get the media hyped up on recent Chinese business emigrants acting like the do in Chingqing, then leak the Labour party linkages to Liu, then Cunliffes linkages to Liu. Stir well and watch it burn….
Internecine warfare – when will the Left ever learn…
Surely Barker knew exactly who Liu was, having travelled 1800km out of his way to have dinner with him. Likewise some Labour minister knew that they had approved his residency against official advice?
When Cunliffe started attacking National over Liu, why didn’t these guys just ring Cunliffe and say “hang on, we might have a bit of skin in this game too”? Nobody did. Is the ABC club that influential?
Not looking like the media are being helpful to the comrades leader:
NZHerald: Everybodys talking about :Cunliffe’s resignation may be in order
NZHerald lead story: Cunliffe: I have not lied
Stuff Lead story: Cunliffe: I didn’t lie
NewstalkZB: Cunliffe intervened in Donghua Liu’s residency
TVNZ: David Cunliffe: I will not resign
3 News: Official documents reveal David Cunliffe knew about controversial businessman Donghua Liu – despite repeatedly denying it.
Seems that this website is one of the few websites that think that there is nothing to see here.
Will not be surprised if there is more to come on this.
Karol – its just more varnish on the object called “Tricky and unorganised”.
I don’t know David Cunliffe except what I see in the media. And frankly as a centrist, tending right to be truthful, it leaves me cold – not his Left wing policies and advocating for the working class, no problem with that.
Its his lack of organisation and consistency that gets me. Political Management is the PM’s job. DC has demonstrated he hasn’t got that mastered – his own caucus are stitching him up….
you have no proof this came from labour not nats. with key away it reeks of nats dirty tricks.
why do you think key has got away with over 100 lies or brain fades…. and cunliffe has been fried for a few. it cant be anabborrencee of lying or bad memories
Twitter and Faceboook, UK boss says its not illegal to spy on them.
So essentially, terrorists, the dumb ones, use these sites. The smart terrorists don’t or don’t reveal anything important when using them.
The people who use Twitter and Facebook are going to be people whose motivation change, maybe.
Those like in the Arab spring who suddenly rise up, and use social media.
Or back in the UK, those who become terrorists.
So the UK authorities surely are tracking people in order to predict and catch a terrorist before they become a terrorist. Now that would require extensive data, and a huge effort of examining motivations and character paths to becoming a terrorist.
Of course, this would also be very useful to commercial entities as well, and worse, to political movements. Take our current Tory cult that has now be running its course through society for the last thirty years. Believers in the true perfection of markets, too deluded to know better, could easily have misused such a vast wealth of government collected data to pursue those against their cause.
That’s the fear. But fully we have Key protecting us, putting Banks and Dunne on the intelligence committee…
Wake up to gross bias and manipulation of the news.
Wake up to attacks on the left by the right.
Know what died you are on.
This is not the time to be taken in by the right and the fickle media.
Cunliffe didn’t recall a standard request his office made.
This attack on Cunliffe is designed to keep the right in power, to continue to transfer wealth to the better-off and to keep the poor down.
Know what side you are on.
Fight against the right.
piss off chris.
speak for yourself and stop dropping link shite all over the place.
Just because the crawling creeps have unearthed some nothing from 2003 has got all you capons into frenzy.
where did john keys get $80,000,000 of other peoples money from?
Meanwhile, while we are all working ourselves into a frenzy over something someone signed 11 years ago, the government is set to outsource school caretaking jobs to multinational corporations…
I could weep……..scabs scabs scabs and scabs everywhere…….but particularly in the once proud New Zealand Labour Party. No ? Have a look at Campbell Live tonight…….Mallard, King, Pipkins…….the bespectacled one from Dunedin somewhere. They all just gleefully voted for Mr Higher ShonKey Standards. Gleefully.
Two scab-hits in 30 years. Tell me…….how much do these bastards care about those down the bottom. Oh heaps…….like, like, their parliamentary pensions forever and ever……hundy K plus. Scabs !
If one stubbornly clings to the Elimination strategy (I don’t support it, but that will have to wait for another occasion) then try to get it right. You need secure borders. We have attempted this with a very large measure of success. It has not been perfect as the Covid-19 Response ...
Diaspora: perception departs from reality In this collection of articles are two papers currently captivating the attention of people following the science and emergence of climate change, especially the rapid variety we've accidentally unleashed and which is now unfolding around us. The synthesis and review article Earth's Ice Imbalance by Slater ...
The ultra-rich have done very, very well out of the pandemic. Globally, the wealth of the ten richest people rose by US$540 billion last year, enough money to pay for the pandemic in its entirity. And in New Zealand, local billionaire Graeme Hart saw his wealth increase by almost NZ$3.5 ...
Postmodernism has long been looked upon as an indecipherable ideology and a source of amusement. In 1996 Alan Sokal, a physics professor at New York University, had a hoax article published in ‘Social Text’ an academic journal of postmodern cultural studies. In ‘Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Anew study in Nature Sustainability incorporates the damages that climate change does to healthy ecosystems into standard climate-economics models. The key finding in the study by Bernardo Bastien-Olvera and Frances Moore from the University of California at Davis: The models have been underestimating the ...
In a recent interview with RNZ (14th of January), NZ Council of Civil Liberties Chair Thomas Beagle, in response to Simon Bridges condemnation of the post-Trump Twitter purge of local far Right and other accounts, said the following: “Cos the thing about freedom of expression is that it’s not just ...
Let’s be clear: if Trump is not politically killed off once and for all, he will become a MAGA Dracula, rising from the dead to haunt US politics for years to come and giving inspiration to his wretched family of grifters and thousands of deplorables well into the next decade. ...
Since its demise as an imperial power, and especially its deindustrialisation under Thatcher, the UK's primary economic engine has been its role as a money laundry, using its network of overseas territories as tax havens to enable rich people around the world to steal from the societies they live in. ...
Last month OMV quit the Great South Basin and surrendered its offshore exploration permits outside of Taranaki. This month, Australian-owned Beach Energy has done the same: Beach Energy Resources New Zealand has decided to abandon all of its oil and gas exploration permits off the South Island coast, including ...
The new Northland case has been linked to the South African strain of Covid-19, one of a number of new, more contagious Covid variants. Here’s how they emerge and why. Let’s start with the basics. The genetic material of the SARS-CoV-2 virus responsible for Covid-19 is a strand of RNA ...
MARVIN HUBBARD, US citizen by birth, New Zealand citizen by choice, Quaker and left-wing activist, has been broadcasting his show, "Community or Chaos", on Otago Access Radio for the best part of 30 years. On 24 November last year, I spoke with him about the outcome of the 2020 General ...
This is a guest blog post by Daniel Tamberg, Potsdam, co-founder and director of SCIARA GmbH. The non-profit organisation SCIARA is developing and operating a flexible software platform for scientific simulation games that allows thousands of players to explore, design and understand possible climate futures together. Decision-makers in politics, business, ...
Yesterday's Gone: Cold shivers are running up and down the spines of conservatives everywhere. Donald Trump may have gone, but all the signs point to there being something much more momentous in the wind-shift than a simple return to the status quo ante. A change is gonna come. ONE COULD ...
Is it possible to live and let live in the post-Trump era? The online campaign to vilify Christopher Liddell, ex-White House Deputy Chief of Staff and Assistant to Trump, makes for an interesting case study. Liddell is a New Zealander whose illustrious career in corporate America once earned him plaudits ...
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Jan 17, 2021 through Sat, Jan 23, 2021Editor's Choice12 new books explore fresh approaches to act on climate changeAuthors explore scientific, economic, and political avenues for climate action ...
This discussion is from a Twitter thread by Martin Kulldorff on 20 December 2020. He is a Professor at Harvard Medical School specialising in disease surveillance methods, infectious disease outbreaks and vaccine safety. His Twitter handle is @MartinKulldorff #1 Public health is about all health outcomes, not just a single ...
The Treasury forecasts suggest the economy is doing better than expected after the Covid Shock. John Kenneth Galbraith was wont to say that economic forecasting was designed to make astrology look good. Unfair, but it raises the question of the purpose of economic forecasts. Certainly the public may treat them ...
Q: Will the COVID-19 vaccines prevent the transmission of the coronavirus and bring about community immunity (aka herd immunity)? A: Jury not in yet but vaccines do not have to be perfect to thwart the spread of infection. While vaccines induce protection against illness, they do not always stop actual ...
Joe Biden seems to be everything that Donald Trump was not – decent, straightforward, considerate of others, mindful of his responsibilities – but none of that means that he has an easy path ahead of him. The pandemic still rages, American standing in the world is grievously low, and the ...
Keana VirmaniFrom healthcare robots to data privacy, to sea level rise and Antarctica under the ice: in the four years since its establishment, the Aotearoa New Zealand Science Journalism Fund has supported over 30 projects.Rebecca Priestley, receiving the PM Science Communication Prize (Photo by Mark Tantrum) Associate Professor ...
Nothing more from me today - I'm off to Wellington, to participate in the city's annual roleplaying convention (which has also eaten my time for the whole week, limiting blogging despite there being interesting things happening). Normal bloggage will resume Tuesday. ...
The Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weaponscame into force today, making the development, possession, use or threat of use of nuclear weapons illegal in international law. Every nuclear-armed state is now a criminal regime. The corporations and scientists who design, build and maintain their illegal weapons are now ...
"Come The Revolution!" The key objective of Bernard Hickey’s revolutionary solution to the housing crisis is a 50 percent reduction in the price of the average family home. This will be achieved by the introduction of Capital Gains, Land, and Wealth taxes, and by the opening up of currently RMA-protected ...
by Daphna Whitmore Twitter and Facebook shutting down Trump’s accounts after his supporters stormed Capitol Hill is old news now but the debates continue over whether the actions against Trump are a good thing or not. Those in favour of banning Trump say Twitter and Facebook are private companies and ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Democrats now control the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives for the first time in a decade, albeit with razor thin Congressional majorities. The last time, in the 111th Congress (2009-2011), House Democrats passed a carbon cap and trade bill, but it died ...
Session thirty-three was highly abbreviated, via having to move house in a short space of time. Oh well. The party decided to ignore the tree-monster and continue the attack on the Giant Troll. Tarsin – flying on a giant summoned bat – dumped some high-grade oil over the ...
Last night I stayed up till 3am just to see then-President Donald Trump leave the White House, get on a plane, and fly off to Florida, hopefully never to return. And when I woke up this morning, America was different. Not perfect, because it never was. Probably not even good, ...
Watching today’s inauguration of Joe Biden as the United States’ 46th president, there’s not a lot in common with the inauguration of Donald Trump just four destructive years ago. Where Trump warned of carnage, Biden dared to hope for unity and decency. But the one place they converge is that ...
Dan FalkBritons who switched on their TVs to “Good Morning Britain” on the morning of Sept. 15, 2020, were greeted by news not from our own troubled world, but from neighboring Venus. Piers Morgan, one of the hosts, was talking about a major science story that had surfaced the ...
Sara LutermanGrowing up autistic in a non-autistic world can be very isolating. We are often strange and out of sync with peers, despite our best efforts. Autistic adults have, until very recently, been largely absent from media and the public sphere. Finding role models is difficult. Finding useful advice ...
Doug JohnsonThe alien-like blooms and putrid stench of Amorphophallus titanum, better known as the corpse flower, draw big crowds and media coverage to botanical gardens each year. In 2015, for instance, around 75,000 people visited the Chicago Botanic Garden to see one of their corpse flowers bloom. More than ...
Getting to Browser Tab Zero so I can reboot the computer is awfully hard when the one open tab is a Table of Contents for the Journal of Environmental Economics and Management, and every issue has more stuff I want to read. A few highlights: Gugler et al demonstrating ...
Michael Cowling, CQUniversity AustraliaWe’ve probably all been there. We buy some new smart gadget and when we plug it in for the first time it requires an update to work. So we end up spending hours downloading and updating before we can even play with our new toy. But ...
Timothy Ford, University of Massachusetts Lowell and Charles M. Schweik, University of Massachusetts AmherstTo mitigate health inequities and promote social justice, coronavirus vaccines need to get to underserved populations and hard-to-reach communities. There are few places in the U.S. that are unreachable by road, but other factors – many ...
Israel chose to pay a bit over the odds for the Pfizer vaccine to get earlier access. Here’s The Times of Israel from 16 November. American government will be charged $39 for each two-shot dose, and the European bloc even less, but Jerusalem said to agree to pay $56. Israel ...
Orla is a gender critical Marxist in Ireland. She gave a presentation on 15 January 2021 on the connection between postmodern/transgender identity politics and the current attacks on democratic and free speech rights. Orla has been active previously in the Irish Socialist Workers Party and the People Before Profit electoral ...
. . America: The Empire Strikes Back (at itself) Further to my comments in the first part of 2020: The History That Was, the following should be considered regarding the current state of the US. They most likely will be by future historians pondering the critical decades of ...
Nathaniel ScharpingIn March, as the Covid-19 pandemic began to shut down major cities in the U.S., researchers were thinking about blood. In particular, they were worried about the U.S. blood supply — the millions of donations every year that help keep hospital patients alive when they need a transfusion. ...
Sarah L Caddy, University of CambridgeVaccines are a marvel of medicine. Few interventions can claim to have saved as many lives. But it may surprise you to know that not all vaccines provide the same level of protection. Some vaccines stop you getting symptomatic disease, but others stop you ...
Back in 2016, the Portuguese government announced plans to stop burning coal by 2030. But progress has come much quicker, and they're now scheduled to close their last coal plant by the end of this year: The Sines coal plant in Portugal went offline at midnight yesterday evening (14 ...
The Sincerest Form Of Flattery: As anybody with the intestinal fortitude to brave the commentary threads of local news-sites, large and small, will attest, the number of Trump-supporting New Zealanders is really quite astounding. IT’S SO DIFFICULT to resist the temptation to be smug. From the distant perspective of New Zealand, ...
RNZ reports on continued arbitrariness on decisions at the border. British comedian Russell Howard is about to tour New Zealand and other acts allowed in through managed isolation this summer include drag queen RuPaul and musicians at Northern Bass in Mangawhai and the Bay Dreams festival. The vice-president of the ...
As families around the world mourn more than two million people dead from Covid-19, the Plan B academics and their PR industry collaborator continue to argue that the New Zealand government should stop focusing on our managed isolation and quarantine system and instead protect the elderly so that they can ...
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Jan 10, 2021 through Sat, Jan 16, 2021Editor's ChoiceNASA says 2020 tied for hottest year on record — here’s what you can do to helpPhoto by Michael Held on Unsplash ...
Health authorities in Norway are reporting some concerns about deaths in frail elderly after receiving their COVID-19 vaccine. Is this causally related to the vaccine? Probably not but here are the things to consider. According to the news there have been 23 deaths in Norway shortly after vaccine administration and ...
Happy New Year! No, experts are not concerned that “…one of New Zealand’s COIVD-1( vaccines will fail to protect the country” Here is why. But first I wish to issue an expletive about this journalism (First in Australia and then in NZ). It exhibits utter failure to actually truly consult ...
All nations have shadows; some acknowledge them. For others they shape their image in uncomfortable ways.The staunch Labour supporter was in despair at what her Rogernomics Government was doing. But she finished ‘at least, we got rid of Muldoon’, a response which tells us that then, and today, one’s views ...
Grigori GuitchountsIn November, Springer Nature, one of the world’s largest publishers of scientific journals, made an attention-grabbing announcement: More than 30 of its most prestigious journals, including the flagship Nature, will now allow authors to pay a fee of US$11,390 to make their papers freely available for anyone to read ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Gary Yohe, Henry Jacoby, Richard Richels, and Benjamin Santer Imagine a major climate change law passing the U.S. Congress unanimously? Don’t bother. It turns out that you don’t need to imagine it. Get this: The Global Change Research Act of 1990 was passed ...
“They’re here already! You’re next! You’re next! You’re next!”WHO CAN FORGET the penultimate scene of the 1956 movie classic, Invasion of the Body Snatchers? The wild-eyed doctor, stumbling down the highway, trying desperately to warn his fellow citizens: “They’re here already! You’re next! You’re next! You’re next!”Ostensibly science-fiction, the movie ...
TheOneRing.Net has got its paws on the official synopsis of the upcoming Amazon Tolkien TV series. It’s a development that brings to mind the line about Sauron deliberately releasing Gollum from the dungeons of Barad-dûr. Amazon knew exactly what they were doing here, in terms of drumming up publicity: ...
Since Dwight Eisenhower’s inauguration in 1953, US presidents have joined an informal club intended to provide support - and occasionally rivalry - between those few who have been ‘leaders of the free world’. Donald Trump, elected on a promise to ‘drain the swamp’ and a constant mocker of his predecessors, ...
For over a decade commentators have noted the rise of a new brand of explicitly ideological politics throughout the world. By this they usually refer to the re-emergence of national populism and avowedly illiberal approaches to governance throughout the “advanced” democratic community, but they also extend the thought to the ...
The US House of Representatives has just impeached Donald Trump, giving him the dubious honour of being the only US President to be impeached twice. Ten Republicans voted for impeachement, making it the most bipartisan impeachment ever. The question now is whether the Senate will rise to the occasion, and ...
Kieren Mitchell; Alice Mouton, Université de Liège; Angela Perri, Durham University, and Laurent Frantz, Ludwig Maximilian University of MunichThanks to the hit television series Game of Thrones, the dire wolf has gained a near-mythical status. But it was a real animal that roamed the Americas for at least 250,000 ...
Tide of tidal data rises Having cast our own fate to include rising sea level, there's a degree of urgency in learning the history of mean sea level in any given spot, beyond idle curiosity. Sea level rise (SLR) isn't equal from one place to another and even at a particular ...
Well, some of those chickens sure came home bigly, didn’t they… and proceeded to shit all over the nice carpet in the Capitol. What we were seeing here are societal forces that have long had difficulty trying to reconcile people to the “idea” of America and the reality of ...
In the wake of Donald Trump's incitement of an assault on the US capitol, Twitter finally enforced its terms of service and suspended his account. They've since followed that up with action against prominent QAnon accounts and Trumpers, including in New Zealand. I'm not unhappy with this: Trump regularly violated ...
A growing public housing waiting list and continued increase of house prices must be urgently addressed by Government, Green Party Co-leader Marama Davidson said today. ...
A Waitomo-based Jobs for Nature project will keep up to ten people employed in the village as the tourism sector recovers post Covid-19 Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. “This $500,000 project will save ten local jobs by deploying workers from Discover Waitomo into nature-based jobs. They will be undertaking local ...
Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw spoke yesterday with President Biden’s Special Presidential Envoy for Climate John Kerry. “I was delighted to have the opportunity to speak with Mr. Kerry this morning about the urgency with which our governments must confront the climate emergency. I am grateful to him and ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Hon Nanaia Mahuta today announced three diplomatic appointments: Alana Hudson as Ambassador to Poland John Riley as Consul-General to Hong Kong Stephen Wong as Consul-General to Shanghai Poland “New Zealand’s relationship with Poland is built on enduring personal, economic and historical connections. Poland is also an important ...
Work begins today at Wainuiomata High School to ensure buildings and teaching spaces are fit for purpose, Education Minister Chris Hipkins says. The Minister joined principal Janette Melrose and board chair Lynda Koia to kick off demolition for the project, which is worth close to $40 million, as the site ...
A skilled and experienced group of people have been named as the newly established Oranga Tamariki Ministerial Advisory Board by Children’s Minister Kelvin Davis today. The Board will provide independent advice and assurance to the Minister for Children across three key areas of Oranga Tamariki: relationships with families, whānau, and ...
The green light for New Zealand’s first COVID-19 vaccine could be granted in just over a week, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said today. “We’re making swift progress towards vaccinating New Zealanders against the virus, but we’re also absolutely committed to ensuring the vaccines are safe and effective,” Jacinda Ardern said. ...
The Minister for ACC is pleased to announce the appointment of three new members to join the Board of ACC on 1 February 2021. “All three bring diverse skills and experience to provide strong governance oversight to lead the direction of ACC” said Hon Carmel Sepuloni. Bella Takiari-Brame from Hamilton ...
The Government is investing $9 million to upgrade a significant community facility in Invercargill, creating economic stimulus and jobs, Infrastructure Minister Grant Robertson and Te Tai Tonga MP Rino Tirikatene have announced. The grant for Waihōpai Rūnaka Inc to make improvements to Murihiku Marae comes from the $3 billion set ...
[Opening comments, welcome and thank you to Auckland University etc] It is a great pleasure to be here this afternoon to celebrate such an historic occasion - the entry into force of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. This is a moment many feared would never come, but ...
The Government is providing $3 million in one-off seed funding to help disabled people around New Zealand stay connected and access support in their communities, Minister for Disability Issues, Carmel Sepuloni announced today. The funding will allow disability service providers to develop digital and community-based solutions over the next two ...
Border workers in quarantine facilities will be offered voluntary daily COVID-19 saliva tests in addition to their regular weekly testing, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. This additional option will be rolled out at the Jet Park Quarantine facility in Auckland starting on Monday 25 January, and then to ...
The next steps in the Government’s ambitious firearms reform programme to include a three-month buy-back have been announced by Police Minister Poto Williams today. “The last buy-back and amnesty was unprecedented for New Zealand and was successful in collecting 60,297 firearms, modifying a further 5,630 firearms, and collecting 299,837 prohibited ...
Upscaling work already underway to restore two iconic ecosystems will deliver jobs and a lasting legacy, Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. “The Jobs for Nature programme provides $1.25 billion over four years to offer employment opportunities for people whose livelihoods have been impacted by the COVID-19 recession. “Two new projects ...
The Government has released its Public Housing Plan 2021-2024 which outlines the intention of where 8,000 additional public and transitional housing places announced in Budget 2020, will go. “The Government is committed to continuing its public house build programme at pace and scale. The extra 8,000 homes – 6000 public ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has congratulated President Joe Biden on his inauguration as the 46th President of the United States of America. “I look forward to building a close relationship with President Biden and working with him on issues that matter to both our countries,” Jacinda Ardern said. “New Zealand ...
A major investment to tackle wilding pines in Mt Richmond will create jobs and help protect the area’s unique ecosystems, Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor says. The Mt Richmond Forest Park has unique ecosystems developed on mineral-rich geology, including taonga plant species found nowhere else in the country. “These special plant ...
To further protect New Zealand from COVID-19, the Government is extending pre-departure testing to all passengers to New Zealand except from Australia, Antarctica and most Pacific Islands, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “The change will come into force for all flights arriving in New Zealand after 11:59pm (NZT) on Monday ...
Bay Conservation Cadets launched with first intake Supported with $3.5 million grant Part of $1.245b Jobs for Nature programme to accelerate recover from Covid Cadets will learn skills to protect and enhance environment Environment Minister David Parker today welcomed the first intake of cadets at the launch of the Bay ...
The Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern and the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands Mark Brown have announced passengers from the Cook Islands can resume quarantine-free travel into New Zealand from 21 January, enabling access to essential services such as health. “Following confirmation of the Cook Islands’ COVID ...
Jobs for Nature funding is being made available to conservation groups and landowners to employ staff and contractors in a move aimed at boosting local biodiversity-focused projects, Conservation Minister Kiritapu Allan has announced. It is estimated some 400-plus jobs will be created with employment opportunities in ecology, restoration, trapping, ...
The Government has approved an exception class for 1000 international tertiary students, degree level and above, who began their study in New Zealand but were caught offshore when border restrictions began. The exception will allow students to return to New Zealand in stages from April 2021. “Our top priority continues ...
Today’s deal between Meridian and Rio Tinto for the Tiwai smelter to remain open another four years provides time for a managed transition for Southland. “The deal provides welcome certainty to the Southland community by protecting jobs and incomes as the region plans for the future. The Government is committed ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has appointed Anna Curzon to the APEC Business Advisory Council (ABAC). The leader of each APEC economy appoints three private sector representatives to ABAC. ABAC provides advice to leaders annually on business priorities. “ABAC helps ensure that APEC’s work programme is informed by business community perspectives ...
The Government’s prudent fiscal management and strong policy programme in the face of the COVID-19 global pandemic have been acknowledged by the credit rating agency Fitch. Fitch has today affirmed New Zealand’s local currency rating at AA+ with a stable outlook and foreign currency rating at AA with a positive ...
The Government is putting in place a suite of additional actions to protect New Zealand from COVID-19, including new emerging variants, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “Given the high rates of infection in many countries and evidence of the global spread of more transmissible variants, it’s clear that ...
$36 million of Government funding alongside councils and others for 19 projects Investment will clean up and protect waterways and create local jobs Boots on the ground expected in Q2 of 2021 Funding part of the Jobs for Nature policy package A package of 19 projects will help clean up ...
Today, for the second time in two months Dunedin climate protectors have locked themselves to the railway tracks outside the Dunedin Railway station to stop the KiwiRail coal train from Bathurst Resources’ Takitimu mine in Southland to Fonterra’s ...
KiwiRail STOP Hauling COAL Today, for the second time in two months Dunedin climate protectors have locked themselves to the railway tracks outside the Dunedin Railway station to stop the KiwiRail coal train from Bathurst Resources’ Takitimu mine ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adam Dunn, Associate professor, University of Sydney The government is rolling out a new public information campaign this week to reassure the public about the safety of COVID-19 vaccines, which one expert has said “couldn’t be more crucial” to people actually getting ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Therese O’Sullivan, Associate Professor, Edith Cowan University The COVID vaccine rollout has placed the issue of vaccination firmly in the spotlight. A successful rollout will depend on a variety of factors, one of which is vaccine acceptance. One potential hurdle to vaccine ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Bernard Walker, Associate Professor in Organisations and Leadership, University of Canterbury Kiwis know what it’s like when life throws curveballs. We’ve had major quakes, floods, fires, an eruption, a terrorist attack and now a pandemic. In those situations, it’s the ability to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Irwin, Emeritus professor, Murdoch University While we continue to be occupied with the COVID pandemic, another life-threatening disease has emerged in northern Australia, one that’s cause for considerable alarm for the millions of dog owners around the country. This disease — ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cath Ferguson, Academic, Edith Cowan University Almost half of Australian adults struggle with reading. Similar levels of struggling readers are reported in the United Kingdom and United States. This does not mean all struggling readers are illiterate. It means they often struggle ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Abbas Shieh, Assistant Professor of Urban Planning and Design, Islamic Azad University The industrial revolution transformed cities, resulting in places of residence and work becoming more distant than ever before. This spatial segregation is still largely embedded in the design of our ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ari Mattes, Lecturer in Communications and Media, University of Notre Dame Australia Review: Occupation: Rainfall, written and directed by Luke Sparke Historically, when a sequel to a film was greenlit, you could rest assured this was because the first film made a ...
Welcome to The Spinoff’s live updates for January 28, keeping you up to date with the latest local and international news. Reach me on stewart@thespinoff.co.nzOur members make The Spinoff happen! Every dollar contributed directly funds our editorial team – click here to learn more about how you can support us ...
Good morning and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Tourism suffers in the shadow of Covid-19, two new positive cases in Auckland confirmed, and National will contest the Māori electorates.The front page of the January 4 Greymouth Star carried grim tidings for several of the glacier towns on the ...
*This article first appeared on RNZ and is republished with permission. Two people who left managed isolation on January 15 have been confirmed as positive Covid-19 cases, with the Ministry of Health urging anyone who visited the same locations during the same time period as the infected pair in Auckland to ...
The watchlist of 'offensive or unreasonable' babies' names is to be reviewed, to include more names from other languages. Generations of the Īhaka family have played a meaningful role in bringing Te Reo and stories of Māori to our wider community. Archdeacon Sir Kīngi Matutaera Īhaka (Te Aupōuri, 1921-93) was known as the orator of ...
After Morocco’s flagrant violation of the terms of the ceasefire in Western Sahara on Friday 13 November 2020 war broke out between the two sides. In the midst of this war Tauranga based Ballance Agri-Nutrients has decided to carry on importing phosphate ...
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Nicholas Agar suggests that our handling of the pandemic could be partly down to our distinctive Treaty of Waitangi relationship, and Māori ideas that enabled us to make it through without tens of thousands of deaths A mission for universities in the coming decade will be a deep understanding of the meaning ...
At 5am today, cock’s crow, the embargo lifted on the Ockham New Zealand Book Awards longlist. Here are the books in the race, followed by thoughts from poetry editor Chris Tse and books editor Catherine Woulfe. A shortlist of four books in each category will be announced March 3, with ...
Ignoring those QR codes when you drop into the supermarket? Can’t be bothered when you grab a coffee? The people serving you notice, and you’re freaking them out.So far, New Zealanders’ use of the Covid-19 Tracer app has been notably woeful. Food industry workers who’ve watched streams of customers walk ...
Steve Braunias reveals the longlist of the 2021 Ockham New Zealand book awards Apart from one or two unfortunate omissions which cast doubt on the sanity and intellectual acumen of judges, especially the nobodies who judged this year's non-fiction, the longlist for the 2021 Ockham New Zealand book awards is ...
By Lulu Mark in Port Moresby Papua New Guinea’s biggest hospital is straining to provide medical services to the growing population of the capital Port Moresby – with an estimated growth rate of 3 percent annually, a medical executive says. Port Moresby General Hospital chief executive officer Dr Paki Molumi ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Nationals who attend Thursday’s memorial service in Tweed Heads for Doug Anthony, who died last month aged 90, may muse on the contrast between the state of their party when he led it and now. ...
Returning to quarantine-free travel in 2021 doesn't just need a vaccine, but a way to check whether arriving passengers are actually immune to the virus. A smart Kiwi science start-up is working with a global biometrics giant to make that happen. A deal signed between Kiwi research and development company Orbis Diagnostics, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Caitlyn Forster, PhD Candidate, School of Life and Environmental Sciences, University of Sydney This summer’s wetter conditions have created great conditions for flowering plants. Flowers provide sweet nectar and protein-rich pollen, attracting many insects, including bees. Commercial honey bees are also thriving: ...
Lotto scratchie tickets featuring the pop band Six60 are being withdrawn after a public backlash. In a statement, Lotto NZ said there had been a mutual decision made with the band to remove the tickets from sale following the negative feedback, and it offered an apology. The band faced criticism, both ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Russell Dean Christopher Bicknell, Post-doctoral researcher in Palaeobiology , University of New England Shell-crushing predation was already in full swing half a billion years ago, as our new research published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B reveals. A hyena devouring ...
Vodafone has suspended advertising on the radio station amid calls for talkback host John Banks to be taken off air after yet another racist outburst. Alex Braae reports. In an alarming segment of talkback radio, former Auckland mayor John Banks endorsed the views of a caller who described Māori as a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Welch, Senior Lecturer, University of Auckland When a COVID-19 case was found in Northland last Sunday, Aotearoa’s second-longest period with no detected community case came to an end. ESR scientists worked late into Sunday night to obtain a whole genome sequence ...
He has the perfect moustache, an exceptional mullet, and he uses terms like ‘face hole’ on national TV. Who or what is Dr Joel Rindelaub?I was drawn in by the moustache, but it was the mullet that really kept me there. Watching TVNZ’s Breakfast yesterday morning I was fixated. Often, ...
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After a raft of inquiries delving into and recommending what should be done about the politically beleaguered Orangi Tamaraki, along with the briefing papers we suppose he has been given, we imagined Children’s Minister Kelvin Davis would have no more need for expert advice. Wrong. He has ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vincent Ho, Senior Lecturer and clinical academic gastroenterologist, Western Sydney University There’s a common assumption men take longer than women to poo. People say so on Twitter, in memes, and elsewhereonline. But is that right? What could explain it? And if ...
Just as sexuality is a spectrum, so too is asexuality. In Ace of Hearts, members of New Zealand’s asexual community talk about the challenges and misconceptions of identifying as ace.First published November 17, 2020.Ace of Hearts is part of Frame, a series of short documentaries produced by Wrestler for The Spinoff.“A ...
Sam Brooks wasn’t allowed to watch kids TV as a kid. Now, as a 30 year old man, he watches it for the first time.My mother’s approach to parenting was unorthodox. I wrote weekly book reports on top of my actual homework, I did maths equations in Roman numerals and ...
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Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kris Gledhill, Professor of Law, Auckland University of Technology As we know, getting into New Zealand during the COVID-19 pandemic is difficult. There are practicalities, such as high airfare and managed isolation costs. And there are legal requirements, including pre-flight testing, mandatory ...
New Zealand faces the risk of a generation being locked out of the housing market unless land is freed up and more houses built, National Party leader Judith Collins says. ...
On Sunday, Stuff published a months-long investigation by Alison Mau detailing allegations of harassment and exploitation within the local music industry.The piece, ‘Music industry professionals demand change after speaking out about its dark side’, includes allegations of inappropriate behaviour and abuse of power by male artists, international acts and executives; ...
“The Government is all at sea on timelines for Australia and New Zealand’s respective vaccine roll-outs, with the worst news coming from the mouth of Pfizer Australia CEO Anne Harris,” says ACT Leader David Seymour. “Yesterday, under increasing ...
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Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexander Gillespie, Professor of Law, University of Waikato New Zealand has a strong history of protecting and promoting human rights at home and internationally, and prides itself on being an outspoken critic and global leader in this area. So, when the most ...
Good morning and welcome to the Bulletin. In today’s edition: Collins outlines the plan forward for National, no spread of Covid spotted yet in Northland, and students return for climate protest.In front of a Rotary Club at the Ellerslie Racecourse in Auckland, National leader Judith Collins yesterday set out her ...
*This articlefirst appeared on RNZ and is republished with permission. The tourism industry isn't holding its breath for a trans-Tasman travel bubble being in place after Australia temporarily closed its borders to New Zealand. New Zealanders could be waiting even longer for a full trans-Tasman bubble, with the ...
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Telling a Rotary Club audience that housing is a serious problem and they should care deeply about it landed flat but took some daring from the National leader, writes Justin Giovannetti.Judith Collins’ level of control over the National Party is still a question best answered by a shrug.Elevated to her ...
A gang turf war gripped the South Auckland suburb in late 2020, forcing schools to lock down and armed police to patrol the streets. Community leaders are now warning the cycle of violent retribution could continue in 2021, unless radical interventions are made.The violent altercations that loomed large in Ōtara ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Véronique Duché, A.R. Chisholm Professor of French, University of Melbourne In this series, writers pay tribute to fictional detectives on the page and on screen. When I first heard that Rowan Atkinson was to put on Maigret’s velvet-collared overcoat, I wondered ...
that incubus on the body politic..bob jones..has done a column attacking dotcom/minto/harre..
..and as always with his columns..
..the fun is to be had reading the comments-thread beneath them..
..and this one is no different..
..and of course..jones..after wimping-out/running-scared on the throwdown/challenge to a public debate from minto..
..has set a new benchmark for gutless-wonder/empty-clattering-container…
..what a wuss..!..eh..?
(one for the smiley-face-fans..)
“..The new emoji that will allow you to express yourself fully at last..”
“..From ‘wind blowing face’ to ‘man in business suit levitating’ –
(cont..)
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/shortcuts/2014/jun/17/new-emoji-express-yourself-fully
Even many people supporting the National Party that I know are commenting on the amount of media coverage attacking Labour… this is Nationals biggest achievement in the last 6 years.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/247500/kiwisaver-plan-'won't-increase-savings‘
like their wholesale support for key to be elected..(promised tax-cuts..)
..these craven trout are thinking of their own wallets/interests – and operating out of a fear they may have to pay a bit more in income tax..
..(and a capital gains tax on those ‘rentals’ so many of them have…)
The capital gains tax proposed will be a reduction in tax. Currently taxable capital gains are taxed at the highest marginal tax rate,say 30%. The CGT is proposed to be at 15%
Contrary to memes here capital gains tax is paid by tax payers trading in assets.
Agreed Saarbo. It is interesting the number of “independent” commentators who pop up and then run right wing lines. Littlewood’s claim is bizarre. A compulsory near universal savings scheme will not increase savings?
Littlewood is someone in the past who has advocated getting rid of the Cullen Fund and for ACC to not collect reserves to cover future liabilities.
i don’t think tho Phillip that a Capital Gains Tax will effect the ‘rentals’ until some time in the future should such be sold,
The proposed Capital Gains Tax will tho capture those who are in the market speculating, how many of these speculators there are seems to also be one of the ‘unknowns’ of the property market, with deliberation i would suggest,
The ability to write off losses on the ‘rental’ against all other taxable income if David Parker is to be believed will also be addressed and it is this ability to get a hidden subsidy on the ‘rental’ from the Government that i believe is one of the major driving forces for those entering the ‘rental’ property market,
There is apparently a piece in today’s Herald highlighting/touting the move by the Auckland middle class into Hamilton property where the ‘owners’ live and rent in Auckland and have a ‘rental’ in Hamilton being subsidized by the Accommodation Supplement and the ability to write off losses on the Hamilton rental against their income,(although i doubt the latter subsidy gets a mention from the Herald it being ‘a secret’)…
You’ve been able to write off expenses on rental properties for as along as I can remember.
Owning a rental is no different than running a business, there’s expenses and like any business they’re tax deductible.
”Expenses” BM, deliberately buying into a ‘rental’ with knowledge that the mortgage, rates, and insurance can never be recouped by the amount of rent able to be gathered from the property and only doing so because of the ability to write off the difference between the outgoings and the income against other taxable income, including, with a little ”legal shuffle”, wages from employment i would describe as something else than ‘business’,
In such a situation the ‘business’ is in fact insolvent from day one and is then being propped up by the tax base in a manner that i would contend the tax base was never intended to be used,
This is in fact the ‘loop-hole’ which has encouraged a vast swathe of the middle class into buying ‘rentals’, the Treasury having previously produced data that shows that in the past 20 years since the exploitation of this ‘loop-hole’ became popular, 200,000 former ‘homes’ have been transferred into ‘rentals’,
In effect the Government on each of these properties is paying a double subsidy, the accommodation subsidy and the tax write off accounting for more in dollar terms than the subsidy paid by the Government to HousingNZ for each tenant housed,
It could then be argued that instead of being housed by the State in an asset the State owns the tenants renting such property are now involved in a money go round where their taxes are directly subsidizing the ownership ambitions of the private landlords ‘rental portfolios’…
All that needs to be done is to ring-fence the losses so they can’t get offset against other personal income, eg salary and wages, only from future income derived directly from the rental activity, and the problem is solved.
Incidentally this is Labour’s policy, as moaned about here: http://www.nzpif.org.nz/news/view/56503
They don’t appear to see the irony in this statement: “Labour’s proposal would see rental property treated differently from other businesses, which means they would use tax policy to influence peoples’ investment decisions. It is commonly considered bad policy to use tax as a means for influencing people’s investment decisions.”
+1
The sooner ring fencing of businesses happens the better.
I would make interest non-deductible on the grounds that it is a capital expense rather than a normal business expense. Expenses should only be deducted from income, for tax purposes, if that income is taxable, and at the present time this does not include capital gain. Muldoon made interest non-deductible if the property was sold within 10 years but I think this rule has since been discontinued. I would reintroduce it, but without the 10 year limit.
Full text of the TPP IP chapter up (prreviously secret) now made available online by Wikileaks. It includes the position of each of the participating country, on each provision.
The article by Wikileaks introducing it:
Full text of the chapter here
Pretty easy to see why people say it will never be signed, and begs the question: when people say they oppose “the” TPPA, which one are they talking about?
China to build and operate for UK: nuclear power station, high speed rail
PM Cameron is all for it. It seems like white English speaking peoples are incapable of doing anything for themselves these days without contracting the job out to China for bottom dollar
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/17/china-stake-british-nuclear-power-li-keqiang-hinkley-beijing
…. so it’s going to be high speed rail with asbestos in the insulation and suspect brakes and bearings then. And I’ll bet there are one or two struggling firms still around in the UK capable of the work.
Why wouldn’t they give the job to the German’s? Sure it might cost more, but I bet they’d get a better product with better long-term support for the price premium.
I’m pretty sure Areva and Siemens will not be happy, no. I wonder if this is the UK sending a message to both France and Germany.
”Gimmie a head with hair”,so sung the song, time appears to have stood still as far as hair in schools go with the highlighting in the past week or so the ‘exclusion’ from the classroom of a couple of kids because of the length of their hair or the way such hair has been ‘styled’,
i fail to see how the length or otherwise of a persons hair has the slightest effect upon their ability to learn and think central Government need step into this area and make it plain through Legislation that the state of a persons hair cannot be a legitimate reason to exclude them from the classroom…
+1
….. or maybe it’s just male WASPs whose ‘learnings’ are affected by long hair. (I just witnessed a highly intelligent and knowledgable Sikh who has never cut his hair tie it up in his turban).
….. or maybe it’s just about control freaks trying to impose their conservative, ‘good, wholesome’ values on yoof (Show ’em some discipline – if I had my way I’d put ’em in the army). Homogenise and rinse. /sarc
As a lifelong male longhair I thought the authoritarian kink demonstrated by certain school masters and RSA types against the hirsute had vanished like corporal punishment with the 70s, but not so it seems. “6 of the best for you boy”.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/10169911/Boy-in-hair-row-abused-by-chairs-daughter
At my high school, the rule was the same for both sexes; if it was long enough to be tied back, it had to be tied back. Not quite sure what the rules on mascara were, but it doesn’t seem to have negatively affected my fellow student Michael Laws in his adult years 😉
i am shocked,awed, and, highly amused at the primitive reactions of some Boards of Trustee’s that have been publicly exhibited in the past couple of weeks,
i well remember the ‘fuss’ when my brother got the kick from Tawa College here in Wellington for His flat refusal to cut His hair, this incident occurred back in the mists of the past, New Zealand circa late 1960’s,
Hypocrisy abounds surrounding the issue, one young fella, featured on Campbell Live last week, excluded from the classroom for what i consider an intelligent ‘neat’ rendition of His hair into a tribal carving was allowed, obviously because His prowess on the field showed the school in a good light, to partake in school sports but excluded from the classroom,
The DomPost, accessed through Stuff.co, this morning points to another piece of what’s best described as Uglyness emanating from another youngster with long hair being excluded from the school and refused re-entry despite offering to tie the offending hairs back at all times while at the edifice of education,
The parents of this particular kid are apparently approaching the Courts to seek remedy and the daughter of ”the chair” of the Board of Trustees has been outed for posting open abuse of the kid on social networks,
My view is that none of this need be occurring, there seems no logical reason/evidence that ”Hair”, its style, or lack of such, has any effect on anyone in the classroom’s ability to learn and the Government need write the law to stop such discrimination occurring…
Most ridiculous news story of the week, and what a message to send to the youth of NZ – Fuck the rules, just get mummy and daddy to buy a court hearing.
My advice is just cut your hair wee man.
I remember back in ’79 when I had my ear pierced for the first time. It wasn’t allowed in school, so every morning I’d take it out and every afternoon I’d put it back in. How simple is that?
Like the third year that grew a beard over the summer holidays and was made to shave it before being allowed to return to school, and facial hair wasn’t even in the rule book. He had his day of ‘fame’ and then everything went back to normal.
Rules are made to be broken, and in the big scheme of things, long hair isn’t a crime, but what a joke those parents are, and what a bad precedent they are are setting.
You really stuck it to the man eh Al1en.
Schools are where you get offered your first official shit sandwiches. Eat too many and you might get to like the taste.
The kids parents have every right to take on some jumped up BOT chair.
It’s not about me and ‘the man’, but I’ve never taken a shit sarnie in my life bruv. Fact is, getting a hair cut isn’t going to harm the lad or push him into a life of servitude, however, the signal being sent that he can challenge rules that everyone else has to obey is crass.
The school have every right to insist that he conforms like the other students.
Praise ‘Conformists’ everywhere, what a joke, without non-conformists we all would still be parked up in our caves looking across the seas at the ‘edge of the world’ fearful that should we ever sail there we would drop off,
The Alien came close, drop-kick not quite being off…
It’s a school boy at school disobeying school rules that all have to follow.
Kin ‘el, he’s not Che Guevara.
I know establishment = sh!t for most extremists, but context is a wonderful thing. 😆
My earring experience didn’t stop me getting another five done, or indeed stop me from having shoulder length hair or go a week without shaving.
Viva revolution.
You seem to have missed the point that it’s a rule that shouldn’t be there.
But the rule is there and going to court because all of a sudden you don’t want to follow it is just stupidity.
Sometimes that’s the only way to get an unjust rule changed.
Just think, if we just quietly went along with legal wrongs we’d still have slavery, child labour, poor houses and countless other injustices
Wow Draco, so having to comply with some hair length requirements at a secondary school now ranks up there with Slavery. I am starting to get the idea that you were put on this earth to be happy about nothing.
Aliens point is about choosing your battles.
“Just think, if we just quietly went along with legal wrongs we’d still have slavery, child labour, poor houses and countless other injustices”
And collar length hair – Oh the humanity.
Or parked up in suburbia looking across ‘lego land’ to the workplace, the supermarket and the farm lands with the staunch belief that the view encompassed all the possibilities the world has to offer. (Two possibilities for the price of one every second Tuesday between the hours of 12a.m. and 3p.m.)
No. As a fellow long haired git, I object. Thats thinking thats at least 40 years in the past.
When length of hair can affect learning then its fair and reasonable for a school to have a say on things as they want the best outcomes for the student.
When its not going to affect the students learning then its not a school issue.
It’s nothing to do with ‘learning’ and everything to do with complying with the rules that that school sets. When that boy’s parents enroled him in that school they did so on the condition of conforming with the rules set down. If they do not like the rules, then send him, to a different school. Very simple.
Conforming with all sorts of rules is part of daily life. I cannot turn up to my place of employment dressed how ever I want, unshaven, not had a shower etc. If I want to turn up unshaven, smelly or dressed like a bum, then I can expect consequences. Very simple.
Assuming you work with clients/customers, if you turned up looking like crap then you’d cost the business money.
How does long hair affect school performance? Doesn’t seem to inhibit girls’ performance at school too much…
How does having your socks pulled up affect learning? It doesn’t. Because that is not the point. The point is if you want to enrol your child at that school, they have rules that are to be complied with, you don’t like it? Enrol your child elsewehere.
Other institutions used to have rules like that – you know, no blacks, no women, no children, no long hair, no muslims, no poms, just white bread thanks, that’s the way we like it. Go somewhere else.
It is very clear what this school is about ….
and what if it’s the best place for your kid, except for one bullshit rule?
Hey Al1en, where or what is the justification for a school to impose rules like that one? Did they ever consult with the students? Have they ever tried to justify their rules? Or are they simply in the business of making rules for rule making’s sake, and in doing so, encouraging a hopeless culture of unquestioning compliance?
I don’t care if the boy has long hair or not, the issue is breaking a rule then going to court.
I’m sure there are other ways to change things than starting legal action which in my unconsidered opinion, because the rules have been in place for a while, is probably likely to fail.
But just think, I use to drive safely down the road my daughter’s school is on at 50 kph until the speed limit was recently reduced to 40 kph. Rather than get pissy because I can’t do that any more and take the local authority to court, I now drive down that road at 40.
No biggie, right?
Btw, I remember yops and the yts. Not good times to be young and fresh out of school.
Actually, the court will determine whether it is the school that is breaking the rules by imposing such requirements on students.
Like a case years back where a parking ticket got overturned because there were no records that proved that the yellow lines were there with lawful authority, as opposed to just some random dude painting yellow lines…
Interesting hairy sub-thread… I left school just before the Beatles revolutionised hairstyle for males, and caused the whole bloody problem. But I started secondary-teaching in 1970. Being of the ‘Question everything’ persuasion, I sympathised with students who rebelled against the unjustifiable conformity of uniforms and hair-length.
“If we don’t fight them on the trivial things, we will find them fighting us on the serious things” was the boss’s justification, based, I think, on the idea that youth will always look for and find something to rebel against. (James Dean in ‘The Rebel’ is asked, “What are you rebelling against?” He gives the timeless answer: “What have you got?”)
Being a languages teacher I went and lived in France and Germany, where there were no school uniforms, and I came back confirmed in the belief that all our justifications for uniforms were rubbish.
Same boss took me back on at same school.. kids were starting to tell me, “You used to teach my Mum/Dad.” Still uniform fights, so boss decided to poll the parents and ask them : “Do you want school uniforms or not?”
Remembering how the previous generation had complained, I expected a majority to vote uniforms out. Over 80% voted to impose uniforms on their kids just as they had had uniforms imposed on them.
Schools do as their parents ask by and large, and you hair-liberationists are up against one of the sadder aspects of human nature: youngsters rebel against their parents, then turn into replicants of them.
“Actually, the court will determine whether it is the school that is breaking the rules by imposing such requirements on students.”
Expensive way of sorting it out. I agree it’s 2014 and not 1984 (metaphoric and literal), it isn’t such a big deal, and to be fair, he has the right to stand his ground. If anything has taught me, presently dealing with lawyers as I am, it is all about choosing your battles. Some things are must dos, I’m not sure getting a bit of the back is worth the effort. I don’t think it’s a human rights issue, as in based on religious/cultural grounds, it’s just a school rule.
I might well back my kid to make her point, but not to court. Coming from being 3 of 5, I’d say point made, have a week of on me, get the snip, go back to school as a hero rebel for the last year, get up a school wide petition to change the rule, and then put it on his cv when he comes out of school/uni/polytech.
On re-reading I meant have a week off on me and put on her cv to show she’s principled, motivated, focussed, organised and so on.
On re re-reading I concede in advance that taking on ‘the man’ as mentioned above and winning would also make for a good cv read.
heh – reminds me of my first ever work placement at the beginnings of Thatcherism. Prospective big boss sat me down and said I’d have to cut my hair to get the ‘job’ (Youth Opportunity Programme scheme days).
Then on the first day I discovered I was to be working beside an old hippy with hair half way down his back.
And I think that was the first and last time I allowed a boss to successfully make arbitrary demands of me. Just crossing my mind that maybe I should have gone back in later years and thanked the silly auld bugger. 😉
While Europe is banning cosmetics using animal testing! ….the Chinese insist on animal testing for cosmetics!….China is not animal rights or eco -friendly
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2599921/attempts-to-ban-the-testing-of-cosmetics-on-animals
The Animal Welfare Amendment Bill is currently before the Primary Production Committee, which is due to report back to parliament at the end of the month. The committee is considering an amendment from Green MP Mojo Mathers, which seeks to add a ban to cosmetic testing on animals.
Many major cosmetic companies which have previously declared themselves “cruelty free”, such as Avon, Estee Lauder and MAC – have started animal testing again because it is now a requirement to enter the lucrative Chinese market. Mandy Carter is the head of campaigns for Save Animals from Exploitation – SAFE.
Religion is the source of much of the worlds problems! … according to retiring QC and humanitarian prisoner advocate Peter Williams
( i would have to add patriarchal monotheistic religions are the problem)
….the rest of this interview by Kathryn Ryan is also worth listening to, as a historical take and slice of New Zealand’s criminal court case histories and some of the colourful characters from NZ’s past.
Williams himself is an admirable character with a great love of the law and justice …He gives some warnings about putting the onus of proof onto the accused that they did NOT do it!
…(Have to agree with this!,,,it would make a mockery of justice…the onus of proof must be put on the prosecution).
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2599926/peter-williams-qc-on-some-of-nz's-most-intriguing-cases
xox
Williams/Ryan interview on RNZ was uplifting, in spite of Kathryn trying to inject her opinion. Peter is a fine New Zealander with a fierce sense of humanity and justice.
Is it just me, or is the Winter in Wellington this year particularly mild in comparison with previous events,
Seems to have been a singular lack of screaming ice laden Southerlies so far here in Welly, and i am still on the roam around the mansion in tee-shirt mode, admittedly with my layered approach to bodily heating this has me kitted out with four of them on, but, i have as yet not had to resort to the multi-layered maximum heating arrangement of four hoodies and knitted woolen cap which is my normal attire at this time,
i have had the sneaking suspicion that ”climate change” has also accomplished a subtle changing of the seasons on the calendar and suspect like last year that the ”howlers” will likely occur again at the end of winter, start of spring,(not fun for the keen gardener impatient to get the annual crop into the soil)…
Yeah, bad, the weather here is weirdly warm. I saw the headline in the Dom Post at the beginning of June which declared we were to have a warmer than usual winter and something about El Nino. Last week I think someone (was it Draco?) put up a link from the Guardian talking about the effect that El Nino will have on the planet’s weather systems now and in coming years.
Helpful to get that El Nino perspective after I had been shaking my fist at climate change, which I will continue to shake my fist at anyway.
Observations of weirdness for June:
There is still a good amount of firewood in the garage and there have been nights where I have not lit the fire. The underlay on the bed remains on the “summer side”
Sitting here in trackies and a long sleeved t shirt (I know, I’m a style icon) with a window open.
The garden is BLOOMING! Plants that struggled through the windy summer have now grown and flowered……….that is freaking weird. There is lush new growth on the pittosporums and pohutakawa.
I also reckon we’ll get those howlers back at the equinox which will create damage and stunted growth.
I’ve noticed a clear change dating from about 2009. Winter in Wellington is = Warmer, Sunnier, less Windy than before, Summer though = is definitely Wetter and more Windy. It’s becoming our Monsoon Season.
It was very rare to get more than two or three consecutive Blue Sky days in Winter when I was a kid growing up in Welling-on-Sea in the 70s. Now, it seems to be the norm.
Three years ago, my cousin (a Kiwi who’s lived in London for 30 years), made a trip home to Wellington. She was here from Late November to Late January and there wasn’t one fine day during that whole (supposedly Summer) period.
Interesting observations swordfish (trombone?). 2011 was a particularly balmy and still winter I recall, similar to what we have been experiencing so far.
And speaking of growing up in the 70’s, my memory of the Kapiti Coast, where I grew up was that we had very cold winters with several good hard crunchy frosts underfoot in the morning and the summers were dazzlers.
I miss clearly defined and regular seasons.
You obviously don’t recall the snow during the winter we got on THREE occasions in 2011 Rosie.
Seasons are coming later and later. all part of our progression around the axis. One day, Winter will be in December.
Quelle Horrer
Oh, I remember the snow alright James, at the end of that HOT winter of 2011. That was a very exciting weather event. I was living in the least snowy part of Wellington at that time which was very disappointing.
I have heard of this pole shift theory and I know of people who absolutely believe in it. Is it a plausible theory?
Axial precession
First discovered about 150 BCE.
Fascinating stuff thanks Drax. Will need to reread when I have the time, it looks well worth investigating.
Yep to everything you’ve just said – including swordfishtrombones</I.>.
One of my favourite Albums of all time. As I explain here
Grew up just down the coast from you in The Bay of Titahi. Something just a little disquieting about this relatively rapid change in weather.
Jesus, those italics didn’t work too well did they ? (swordfishtrombones and The Bay of Titahi were supposed to be in italics – nothing else !). I’ve not only let the good burghers of The Standard down, much more importantly I’ve let myself down, haven’t I ?
Yes, Swordfish Trombones is an excellent album. Tom Waits continues to be a reliable source of great writing and melodies too 🙂
Don’t berate yourself for the italics situation. I don’t even know how to do italics in a blog setting, so you are well ahead of me.
Grew up in the same place, great to be a kid there in the 60’s…
I remember that in Auckland in 1970s. Going out in the mornings and playing in the frozen grass, feeling it crunch under bare feet. Just don’t seem to get that anymore.
Dunedin’s weather has been causing comment too. Many unseasonably sunny and warm days. Buds coming out on trees. Summer was windy as shit and not so flash. Quite a few noticeably odd rain events too – immense volumes of water in very short periods (over a few minutes) causing flooding.
Sounds very similar to Wellington, Bill. Warmer, sunnier Winters and some really intense rainfalls in Summer over the last 5 years. And, you know, it’s actually just a little bit disquieting. Does nae seem natural.
But, then, I’m increasingly thinking of Wellington and Dunedin as twins these days in any case. For a start, Dunedin’s a dead-ringer for Wellers c1950 – harbour, hillside suburbs, low-rise city centre. But, more importantly, both are politically and ideologically well to the Left of the rest of New Zealand (which is no doubt why both cities are coming in for a particularly hard time from this government). And now it seems on the old meteorology front as well.
So would John Banks have got off scot free if he had held a charity auction to raise $$ for his mayoralty bid and had KDC bid, say for example, $50,000 for a bottle of wine?
If Labour have no records of Donghua Liu’s alleged “donation” of $15,000 possibly because its come via an auction, then is this yet another way that political parties can hide donations?
Sometimes I think that the two main political parties set up rules while having back door escape plans so said rules do not apply to them.
Are you saying the auction was rigged? Any evidence that Labour MPs at the time knew anything about the Liu’s winning the auction?
Seriously – Nats drawing a long bow there.
I do not see how you think Im drawing any bow here.
What Im saying is that it would appear that the two major parties have ways of circumventing the rules that they themselves agree to.
Your suggestion that maybe a MP didnt know about the wine so by implication must be innocent (Barker is in the photo after all) is dangerously close to the failed Banks defence line.
given that labour apparently genuinely didn’t know that L won the auction, I’d say that it was a truly anonymous donation (if it counts as a donation).
As opposed to pretend-anonymous, also known as electoral fraud. as banks found out.
My issue isn’t so much that there are ways to maybe circumvent the law with tact and discretion. Trusts, auctions, raffles, all good, in moderation.
The trouble is where the circumvention becomes blatant and therefore illegal, IMO: getting donors to split donations to remain anonymous, paying a thousand times the sticker price for an “auction” item, that sort of thing.
In the case of fundraising, I’d maybe say that where cumulative purchases from one individual are over the donation limit, they should be published in the donations register. But even then the party can own a going concern that does exceedingly well out of a few customers, e.g. tech advice at $1000/hr.
But really, despite being imperfect, the system completely falls down only when a massive cock thinks he has an equally massive brain, so well and truly crosses the bounds into “illegal”.
Well Barker knew. Hes in the photo after all.
And its dishonest to think that nobody in Labour (or the Nats for you can be sure they will be no better) knew who the kind man who wanted the wine was. And theres no chance that the Labour hierarchy thought it was a generous buyer of wine, for the sake of a nice drink.
Its a rort when the Nats do it, its a rort when Labour does it, and its a rort when any of the other parties does it too.
My objection is that any parties do it, as its not excusable. And you cant say its okay coz the other team is doing it too.
But I do note that both of the major parties have difficulty dealing with generous Chinese business people.
You are so full of shit.
Cunliffe did not try and influence any decisions affecting Liu. He didn’t write the letter because of any donations by Liu.
Cunliffe was doing his job as an electorate MP.
I’m fucking fed up with the argument that there’s some sort of moral equivalence between doing favours outside your job description for a donor, and doing your damned job for someone who might make a donation years later.
If you can’t see the difference, that’s not my problem.
I don’t think it is a long bow, especially after the latest revelations http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10172715/David-Cunliffe-advocated-for-Donghua-Liu
What advocating? Trying to find out the timeline on an official process is something electorate MPs do as part of their job.
Yep, this just a massive beat up by a corrupt media.
Isn’t that exactly what Maurice Williamson was doing for exactly the same person?
Can you demonstrate where the request for information about procedure crossed the line into the “advocacy” claimed in the headline?
Yes, I know that a perception of wrongdoing is all that counts in the “game” you’re “playing”, and I also know that the grounds for this perception are missing.
Can you help me find them? Didn’t think so.
From this morning’s Herald:
Professor Jonathan Boston, co-author of Child Poverty in New Zealand, said at the book’s launch in Auckland last night that he saw worse poverty in some Kiwi families than he saw when he spent a month late last year in Delhi slums where his wife, Dr Mary Hutchinson, worked as a volunteer doctor for a Christian charity.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11276365
I am glad that Professor Boston mentions families, and not just children, as if their existence occurred independently of families. I also think that people do not always appreciate that when inequality is introduced into a previously egalitarian, developed society it brings with it a particular kind of hardship: the high costs of living in the developed society remain, but for many the means for meeting those costs are no longer available.
From Jackals blog:
“Instead, the best thing people can do is make MP’s like Simon Bridges politically extinct at the next election.”
Exactly what I was thinking last night watching the news that oil exploration permits have been granted in the marine reserve where our darling highly endangered Maui dolphins live.
What kind of a fucker would be ok with that? Simon Bridges of course. And people of Tauranga, what do you plan on doing with this one man tornado of environmental destruction? Vote him out or keep him on?
Tauranga is as blue as they come, but surely even they can’t support someone as incompetent and vacuous as Bridges for a third term.
No! Simon Bridges is touted as a future leader of National!
We have to ensure he does become a future leader of National.
ol’ duck lips is a worry and must be contained before he reaches that brighter future
We did it: Seabed mining rejected! Next? Fucking Simon Bridges and his oil adventures in our bit of the ocean!
Yes, great news today travellerev! What a save eh?! A ray of hope 🙂
The full text of the decision can be found on the EPA site here: Decision on the TTR marine consent application
How the f*ck can National’s research unit know about what Labour has done in the past before Labour does…..
Jesus the incompetence.
Maybe they just know exactly what it is that Labour doesn’t know, and so are free to make up stories with impunity?
Herald headline: David Cunliffe wrote letter supporting Liu’s residency bid.
Except, that the letter is not lobbying in support of Liu’s residency.
It’s an entirely appropriate request from an MP on behalf of one of his constituents requesting an ETA for a decision.
And an immediate call for his resignation by John Armstrong
We are poorly served by our press in New Zealand.
And Liu’s donation was supposedly”secret” now. We are poorly served by the press, but, Labour are poorly served by themselves, before going full throttle about Liu shouldn’t they have checked about stuff like this?
Cunliffe needs to come out swinging on this and fight it tooth or nail or he probably should resign for being too much of a sap.
Agree, not all that much to this, it seems they all do it, but surely he has met the Richard Worth standard of being too stupid to stay?
or perhaps he has plunged to judith collins level so can stay. But whydo you compare him to worth. Totally different situations. Perhaps compare him to key or williamson or collins. No wait, williamson interfered in a domestic violence case… So lets compare with key and collins
“Labour are poorly served by themselves, before going full throttle about Liu shouldn’t they have checked about stuff like this?”
Totally agree – it’s obvious that Labour do not want to win this election! Muppets!
Labour – if you can’t pull yourselves together NOW get out of the way and let others who have the best interests of the country at heart take over. The people of New Zealand can no longer afford this incompetency.
What you mean check every single letter written over the past 15 years? Honest DC is talented but I do not know anyone whose memory is that phenomenal.
well someone checked
😯
So why didn’t Barker, Carter, O’Connor or any number who knew Labour had dealings with Liu, just get in touch with Cunliffe and warn him, or were they just content to let him keep up the attack on National, knowing that the silver bullet was waiting?
So not only does this point scored prove that Cunliffe is tricky, it shows ABC are out to get him too?
Two narratives for the price of one looks a bit greedy to me.
Except he is not nearly talented as you claim.
For someone who has been in parliament a long time (15 years), he such makes a fuckload of mistakes and he sure can’t stop lying about it. Dare I say it, his level of deceit is reaching pathological levels
Today on the radio “I was a backbencher at the time of the letter”…despite being Assoc Minister of Finance…
The guy is National’s best asset.
[lprent: I hate to break this to you, but an associate minister is a backbencher if they don’t have other ministerial portfolios. They are often a trainee. A apprentice. Learning the ropes of how to become a minister.
Tell me, are the right who wander in here as really as gormless and ignorant of how your government operates as the morons I have had to read tonight seem to be?
I guess they can’t be. There are a few bright ones I have run across. ]
Williamson? Keep dancing on the head of that pin. But you might want to wait until they have revealed all about the 100k wine bottle.
Ther is something very smelly going on here.
Right wing blogs start going on about Cunliff being rolled close to the election so that the party doesn’t get to vote.
Information about Something that happened with Cunliff 7 years ago comes out just now (admitidly this could be down to the other Liu stuff going on and the timing has been very poor).
I know they are some very far apart dots but is it at all posible that this has been set in motion by some of those who want to replace Cunliff? Have they really stooped that far that they would bring in DPF and Slater to help them take the top job and deliberately go around what the party membership set up? It would work in to the narrative that DPF has been putting out that there are memebers of Labor who would rather spend the next 3 years in oposition but in charge rather than working for Cunliff.
Either way this isn’t going to simply dissapear. Cunliff is going to get hammered with it. Over and over again. If this was something started from within the party it is a disgusting undermining of the party from within adn actually shows that they are not worthy of Government benches.
Hopefullly this leads to labor supporters at worst switchign to other parties on the left. I doubt that though.
So….asking how long a decision is likely to take is the same as advocating positively for somebody’s residency?! Oh dear. It seems that many Nat Party cheerleaders need to get their heads out of their arses.
The truth will out..
I knew something stunk when Mike Williams was asked at the weekend and used the word honestly.
At least the caucus can boot him now and not have to consult the lumpen masses for a replacement.
12:59 AM story breaks about the 2003 letter
1:00 PM John Armstrong column calling for Cunliffe’s head
how they have fallen, The NZ Herald used to be more subtle
“But that does not wash. Either deliberately or through a lapse of memory, Cunliffe has been economical with the truth.” does Armstrong really want to be playing this card?
agree. if he has been dishonest or misleading then in my opinion he is right up there with john key. and anyone calling for his head must, logically, call for john key and judith collins heads. not illegal but not telling the truth or misleading.
I await his statement at 245
John Fucking Armstrong
Let me ask you John, how many of John Key’s malfeasant Ministers have you called on to resign this year over matters far greater involving the mis-use and abuse of Ministerial positions?
Fucking none that’s how many, because they’re the team you are with you fucking bitter Tory loser.
Looking forward to you losing your access to the PM’s office after September you sorry excuse for a journalist.
Gordon Campbell (a couple of years ago) on Armstrong’s partisanship here
CV +100
Nice 1 CV!
Oh the comment i was replying too has gone and I’m on the bottom.
“David Cunliffe to reporters on Tuesday:
Q: Do you recall ever meeting Liu?
A: I don’t recall ever meeting him, no.
Q: Did you have anything to do with the granting of his permanent residency?
A: No, I did not.
Q: Did you advocate on his behalf at all?
A: Nope.
Q:Were you aware of any advice against granting him permanent residency?
A: Not to my recollection.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11276510
Yep this looks bad and the you know whos will be all over it. More time spent on explaining, backtracking and less for the election, spun right back to personalities away from policy. Seems a really simple thing but apparently not.
Q:Were you aware of any advice against granting him permanent residency?
A: Not to my recollection.”
Cunliffe’s OIAed leter to immigration NZ does not show any awareness of such advice.
hairs, split, much?????
Looks desperate to me.
“Q: Did you advocate on his behalf at all?
A: Nope.”
That one seems pivotal to me – I suppose it comes down to interpretation – could the letter be seen as advocacy.
I guess we have to look at the substance of the thing. After all, Maurice William explicitly stated he was not advocating on behalf of the man when he called the Police. That was rightly seen as an ineffective disclaimer and the mention of the the investments at stake was taken as being damning.
I suppose the question has to be, would the recipient of the letter reasonably infer that the letter was advocacy.
Nah, see this for what it is, a co-ordinated Tory attack over nothing more than an electorate MP doing his job.
Only if you see the Williamson case for what it was, a co-ordinated left wing/left wing media attack over nothing more than an electorate MP doing his job.
That explains why he resigned: it was his job to get donors off charges. No, wait…
heh..!
He never attempted to get Mr Liu off charges, he simply rang to ask the progress on the case, no different to what David Cunliffe has been shown to have done for the same person!
No, Cunliffe did not even ask that, little Bobby. He asked that Mr. “Lui” be provided with a timetable.
But nor did Williamson ask for any particular outcome. He just said he was making enquiries and pointed out that Liu was investing a lot of money in New Zealand.
If you can’t tell the difference between a residency application and a police investigation I suggest you lobby hard for Williamson’s reinstatement.
I’m not saying there’s no difference. What I am saying if there is a difference it is a matter of gravity having regard to the distinction you have made, rather than a distinction as to the nature of communication.
So, Williamson’s phone call wasn’t an attempt to get “Lui” off, and this says what about Cunliffe’s letter?
You misunderstand. I think it was. That’s why I said it was rightly criticised.
It’s not the kind of thing I think you can disclaim. If the recipient of the information would perceive it to be.
If the recipient of the request perceives it as an attempt to influence the outcome, they have several choices.
Ignore it.
Let it influence the decision.
Authoritarian followers would let it influence the decision. Therefore we need policy to identify authoritarian followers and ensure they never rise to positions of influence, and good luck getting that one past the National Party.
Okay, so do you think that what Maurice Williamson had effectively removed the risk of their being undue influence, on the basis that he said he didn’t want to influence the police?
I think the risk of corruption is always present, and that officials need to be suspicious of any request they get until they’ve thoroughly investigated links to overseas and/or vested interests, and when it’s a police investigation they have to feel confident enough to show Oravida the door no matter what the minister says, or their personal fear of acid attacks.
For feck’s sake read the cabinet manual on interfering in police investigations and then argue the point.
Yes it is advocacy.
But for goodness sake, – helping constituents who have issues with Government Departments – thats what politicians do for a job
I cant see that Cunliffe did anything that any other MP wouldnt have done in that situation. Leave the poor man alone.
No, it couldn’t. It’s just asking for a timeline of Liu’s immigration process.
And reportedly Maurice Williamson “started by saying that in no way was he looking to interfere with the process.” So his communication also was not advocacy – at least on its face.
That statement was seen, rightly IMO, as not subtracting from how such a phone call would have been interpreted by the recipient.
…and if you can’t distinguish between a police matter and a residency application I’d like you to consider this punch in the face a gesture of respect and appreciation.
I don’t your meaning. The question was whether it was advocacy or not. On balance, I think you could probably say it would have appeared it to have been.
Whether it was improper or not is a different matter, I agree.
If the problem is the possibility of compliant corrupt officials who take MPs doing their job with a nod and a wink then the solution is rid officialdom of authoritarian followers.
Williamson started by saying that because, IMO, he knew he was breaking the rules. His subsequent language implicated actual advocacy and bordered upon threatening the police.
What Cunliffe wrote amounted to Hey guys, can you provide a timetable to Mr Lui?, thanks. And that was it, done.
There is, quite simply, no comparison between the cases.
Fact is Karol – this incompetency is all that is needed for Labour to ensure the Labour vote stays home on 20th Sept. Every policy that attacks the “strugglers” (delaying pension, cgt, etc) – every fumble of the ball – every apparent inconsistency is all it takes. It seems to me that Labour are trying their very best to loose (has Cairns been in their ear?). It makes me fume!! The country cannot afford another term of National – but it looks like it the “alternative” is not much cop either!
It’s bloody irritating
A 2003 letter asking for clarification on a date is meh, in of itself
But I understand what you are saying in terms of the bloody MSM playing this kind of thing up for broad suppressive effect on the Left.
So, just to be clear …
– he may or may not have met him as a constituent
– did not have anything to do with his granting of permanent residency
– advocated for Liu to receive a timeframe for his application
– was unaware of any advice against granting residency
I imagine it’d be easy for David to forget having one of his staff jot off a letter to Immigration Service requesting that a constituent be given a timeline.
The “bad look”, is in the Herald who are making a hell of a mountain out of a molehill.
This is the guy he said he had never heard of????
Given it’s a pretty ubiquitous sort of request for an MP’s office, the request from Lui may well have been a phone call or letter, and the staff dealt with it.
Mr Cunliffe may have seen it for the first time when it passed his desk to be signed – looked above board, signed, and promptly forgotten.
I’d be at least willing to listen to what he has to say – I did with John Key at the beginning.
It’s not as if he was a larger than life, flamboyant businessman who threw a ton of cash around the electorate, having parties and paying for extravagant public fireworks shows
Thats not what Rick Barker said when he went 1800km out of his way for dinner with Liu – what was Barker’s portfolio again?
What’s that got to do with Cunliffe?
so collins needs togo in your opinion?
And their is the liar in chief saying he played golf with owner of oravida for “charity” when he knew it was national party coffers…
So, if cunliffe lied, he goes, collins goes and key goes. I can live with that.
Ditto Tracey!
“Mr Cunliffe may have seen it for the first time when it passed his desk to be signed – looked above board, signed, and promptly forgotten.”
John Banks may have done the same thing, I am sure you also gave him the benefit of the doubt?
Of course those auctioned bottlles of wine and books were purchased by Mr Liu at hugely inflated prices without any prior knowledge of anyone from the Labour Party. They would never ask him to buy a book for $15,000 rather than donate directly…..
Do you really need to have it pointed out to you that Banks still denies his crime whereas Cunliffe, who hasn’t committed any, called a press conference to admit a mistake?
Do you really think the two cases are equivalent?
Do you really need to have it pointed out to you that David Cunliffe just called a press conference to say ”I did not advocate for him. A letter has just come to my attention which is 11 years old, which simply asks how long a process will take… I do not believe I have done anything wrong.” How is that admitting a mistake?
“Do you really think the two cases are equivalent?” Well I guess that will come down to whether or not anyone within Labour knew Mr Liu wanted to donate to the Labour Party but wanted to stay anonymous or not. We will have to see what further details arise….
If you’re going to quote press conferences the statements you omit stand out like the proverbial, child.
have you forgotten there..’bob’..(said in rowan atkinson voice..)
..that banks asked dotcom to split the donation..so he could declare it as anonymous..?
..and then lied on the declaration..?
The third question is the crucial one to be worried about. While MPs do often offer some help to constituents, they may forget details re meetings and letters written. But having written a letter for Liu and then later attacking the Nats for receiving large donations from migrants like him, that sadly smells too much of double standards.
No wonder David Cunliffe is so cautious on so much. On the other hand, the Herald is at it, lobbying for the government, so to say, with a campaign of smear and undermining. It will certainly not make me vote National, I would never vote for Key or Nats, so it will surely be a small party on 20 September.
I am indeed tempted to protest vote this election, yes to send a shock signal to the rotten political establisment of this country, it needs a thorough shake-up.
So why wouldn’t David Cunliffe do his job as an electorate MP, completely impartially, for a constituent?
Where in doing your expected job is the “double standards”?
Well, I am not so sure that it may all just stay with this one letter. Let us pray that not more comes to the surface. David Cunliffe was probably doing his job as MP then, but as Liu appears to have tried to gain some influence by approaching various politicians from various parties, then Labour ones (who were then in government), and more recently National ones, who are now in government, I fear that Cunliffe or his office may have offered some more assistance than just writing that letter.
The Chinese business people believe very much in networking, and they like to lobby politicians and government officials more intensely than what ordinary Kiwi or other “western” business people may be doing. It often resembles a kind of “embrace”, hard to contain and keep a distance in.
If more should surface, things will not look good.
After Cunliffe fronted up on radio and television, and did rather well on the Paul Henry Show, he will have regained some trust. But given the continued attacks, the media are too busy reporting on these side issues, rather than present and discuss Labour’s policies.
Labour’s leader, party workers and MPs really should be doing better in regards to dealing with media, and with their whole strategy. The impression by the public will largely not be such a good one, I am afraid.
And dealing with the media is a highly sensitive and crucial matter, and they should be more confident and aggressive when addressing these attacks by the Herald and others.
” Did you have anything to do with the granting of his permanent residency?”
“No I did not.”
Hang on there. That is still true isn’t it?
DC as an MP wrote to find out how long would it be before an Investment decision be processed. Not an application for residency is it?
ianmac..see comment 22.2.2..
..he did much more than that..
[Even for a RWNJ your comments are a complete waste of broadband – MS]
He’s the next Prime Minister of NZ, more like.
“He’s the next Prime Minister of NZ, more like.”
When did that ever exclude one from being [Even for a RWNJ your comments are a complete waste of broadband – MS]
if you are going to swear genitalia at least get your gender correct
are you speaking for the nervous right..there..?..rates..etc..?
“DC as an MP wrote to find out how long would it be before an Investment decision be processed”
. …and maybe some office boffin wrote for him…after all MPs get rather busy at times and their office assistants do reply or follow up on requests…..so maybe he just didnt do it himself …hence he cant remember……and god knows how many letters MPs sign every day without looking closely at what they are signing….but just trust in the judgment of their assistants
( btw…when my sister was about five she was desperate to have a pet monkey …nothing could dissuade her… so it was suggested that she write to PM Hollyoak for permission ( snigger snigger)….and low and behold she got back a very charming letter explaining that the laws of New Zealand did not allow for pet monkeys but thanking her for her letter and drawing of a pet monkey …and wishing her the very best ….I am sure Hollyoak was much too busy to have written this letter and some assistant wrote it ….but he did sign it!….and my sister very pleased with his response and accepted the law of the land )
Ahh the Banks defence.
Yeah of course Chooky, anyone seeing how the office, and, for most of these things its the electorate office, of an MP operates will know that it is the office staff and personal secretary that handles half the people that attend over such matters,
Immigration is a pretty standard one and it is likely that on the day David Cunliffe signed the letter asking for an update on where the particular process for Liu was at He,(Cunliffe), would have signed any number of such letters having been told by the personal secretary they were standard immigration inquiries,
The next tranche of letters Cunliffe signed were probably to the local DHB as medical matters also figure heavily in an MP’s electoral work through the local office, and, on it would go,
i see nothing wrong with Cunliffe being queried on such things, Armstrong’s idiots clarion call aside,
my view is that they are all deserving of such treatment simply based upon the ”buy your way into New Zealand” policies that both Labour and National have operated over the years,
That such policies are now turning round and biting them both on the A is a rather poetic piece of Justice…
You guys waste so much of your lives denying the bleedingly obvious. Of course one of David’s loyal and talented office workers wrote the letter. Yu have no idea of the huge volume of enquiries that his office had, how professional they were in handling these enquiries and how unlikely it is that he would remember the contents of a letter that he signed 11 years ago.
cunliffe press conference at 245 today
Wow, blatant lies…………National don’t need to do anything the “left” are set on self destruct.
What lies?
Never heard of Liu, never wrote on his behalf….how many do you need. The stupid thing is that Cunliffe took this fight to National, knowing he had these skeletons in his closet – and then lied when caught.
Why don’t you quote what Cunliffe actually said yesterday? If it means what you say it does then you won’t need to paraphrase.
Wow so much delusion in such a short comment …
and yet collins and key survive their proven lies. If cunliffe has lied, id love his press conference to be his resignation. Then i will watch while the right say he didnt need to resign… To justify hanging onto their own liars.
Yep that’s the dirty two faced game that the MSM let the Right Wing play
Or is this a case of the Left being two faced? Right wing politician lies, the Left scream ‘he should resign!’ David Cunliffe lies, ‘it’s okay Right wing politicians do too….’
Right wing politician (John Key) has a secret trust for his family, the Left scream ‘it’s corruption!’, David Cunliffe has a secret trust for hiding donations from public scruitany, ‘it’s okay, its within the rules’.
Or is this a case of Bob spinning like a top, presenting false assertions as fact then drawing spurious conclusions, and therefore providing yet more evidence that Bob embodies deceitful partisan trash?
‘Spinning like a top, presenting false assertions as fact then drawing spurious conclusions, and therefore providing yet more evidence of deceitful partisan trash?’
I like that OAB, although that should be the preface for BLiP’s list, or perhaps you just don’t like the fact I have pointed out that commentators like yourself like to think you have principles, but once those pricinples are held up to left wing politicians they fall away exposing the underlying political spin and bullshit that your sanctimony usually hides.
No, Bob, I am challenging your assertions. They are false. A trust that is declared isn’t secret, by definition. Key’s trusts are not secret either, for that matter: their purpose was exposed years ago: to subvert the law regarding conflicts of interest.
The National Party uses trusts to hide the identity of its donors, ostensibly from its own MPs, but these trusts are no secret either.
Your pretend equivalence is a good play, Bob, but it fails the reality check at several key points.
Do you think politicians who are caught out in a lie should resign?
Fucking Key should have gone years ago over those Tranzrail shares, yes.
“National don’t need to do anything – Labour are set on self destruct.”
FIFY
is cunnliffe going to resign..?
Or re sign ?
cunnliffe didn’t just send a letter asking about the progress of lius’ immigration-application..
“.. Cunliffe said yesterday he had never met Chinese-born Liu, 53, and did not press for him to receive permanent residency.
However, a file held by Immigration New Zealand, released this afternoon, shows a letter from 2003 in which Cunliffe detailed Liu’s plans to set up an export venture.
Cunliffe’s letter, written on parliamentary letterhead and including a photo of the MP, shows he met with Liu – contrary to his assurances yesterday…”
..own..feet..shot…
q-time should b interesting…
..cunnliffe is down 2 ask the first question..
..if he don’t show..?
he’s fronted..
..national are seriously over-excited…
Hey phillip where is the proof that Cunliffe met Liu? Cunliffe’s office had people attend all the time seeking assistance and they then get him to sign letters seeking information. You would be amazed how many people his office has helped.
just for the sake of factual accuracy, it is possible to receive help from an mp and never meet them. In 1994 i wrote my mp about a problem with acc. Although in opposition she interceded on my behalf and within 10 days the problem was resolved. We never met or spoke.
That is NOT a defence of any cunliffe may have done, just supporting the view that you can not meet someone but still help.
You better back this statement up, if you can. How does the letter show that he met with Liu? And that the letter wasn’t from notes taken by a staff member, for instance, or something done over the phone?
Someone a few days back suggested a $500 donation limit to politicians via any single individual, company or trust and I think that is a bloody good idea.
edit – this was to karol’s “get the money out of electioneering”
Not it doesnt.
It shows that he did some advocacy for a constituent, whom he may or may not have actually met.
The details of the letter show that Cunliffe has some knowledge of the constituent’s situation, but that can be passed on by a third party, it does not necessarily require Liu be present to do that.
The bigger issue is whether is a VRWC beat up or if its the second coming of the ABC club. I suspect the timing of the “leaked” information points to the latter.
Time to get the money out of electioneering.
Liu is looking like one of the greedy who spends his time sucking up to politicians to get favourable treatment.
Time to stop giving favourable treatment to wealthy foreign businessmen.
“Liu is looking like one of the greedy who spends his time sucking up to politicians to get favourable treatment.”
And never mind which team they’re on either, any party in government will do!
quick comment for now
time to get money and crony politics out of the system
i would like to see Cunliffe and the progressive parties campaign to bring new brooms to Parliament to give the current system a good clean
If what the NZ Herald is reporting on David Cunliffe is true, that he had on 13 April 2003 written a kind of supportive letter to NZ Immigration, somehow supporting a residence application by controversial Chinese businessman Dongha Liu, now before the courts, and exposed as a large donor to the National Party (and supposedly also Labour), then the election may this year be all decided.
This is not good news, not a good look, I fear, and Labour are now stuffed, as they have not done their honest “return to the roots” and cleaned out their top party members and MPs from the rot that still sits in there.
I am shocked, to be honest, but not quite that suprised, as even Cunliffe is more to the right of centre, than left, and his recent ambiguity over the last months did not convince. So what is David Cunliffe going to say re this, yesterday denying he had ever done anything to support Liu?
So it will be a interesting time in Parliament today, I presume.
This election will be the one for small parties to boost their support, as both large parties are clearly too corrupt to be trusted now.
“This election will be the one for small parties to boost their support, as both large parties are clearly too corrupt to be trusted now.”
Ain’t that the truth, although I’m hopeful that the Greens take over as the second largest party in parliament as Labour are as much of a disgrace as National.
This is tipping point where the Greens take over as the main opposition party. In fact, they have been for some time.
do you think collins should go??
This what Cunliffe asked.
“However, it would be very helpful to Mr Liu to be advised of an estimated period of time in which he could expect a decision on his case.”
1. Nothinmg wrong with it. It is the job of an MP.
2. It was in 2003. I can’t remember what I did in 2013!
BTW Your pirating of another name is gutless.
I am not “pirating”, as my name is descriptive of my perhaps a bit “savage” views and approaches re some issues, but perhaps you suggest I should write it with a small “s” then.
I will not bother raising questions re your name, as we are not here to discuss names, but topics, issues and other commenter’s comments on such, thanks.
Best wishes, I will look forward to other comments from you.
MTSO
if it is true, it ought not be a good time for national with their liu entangle,ent, collins with oravida and key playing golf with shu fir “charity” when in fact 50k went to the national party… And yet they are at 50%.
Worth more than a pause i would have thought. And both collins and key lied about donations and work for donors
Remind me of the rules of Roshambo again. How do you keep a straight face.
Captain Cockup strikes again.
He’s just too stupid to know when to keep his mouth shut.
http://i0.wp.com/www.whaleoil.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/shoot-self-in-foot-copy.jpg
Beware link whore whore whore
collins lies and help to donors is ok though?
I will be very glad when the Herald introduces a paywall because it will keep me from the temptation to go and watch the car wreck.
They just blatantly have it out for Labour and I can’t take much more of their so-called ‘journalism’.
First they have Tamsyn Parker misleading the public about Labour’s KiwiSaver policy and now they are dutifully ravaging Cunliffe on the orders of the National Party research unit.
I’d make a complaint but I don’t even think I can be bothered anymore. NZ has no functioning media and people will have to make their own enquiries.
I know you are but what am I ?
Nobody forced Cunliffe to die in a ditch over the Liu ties with National, just as nobody forced him to lie about his own history with Liu or Labour to lie about recieving money from Liu after getting residency (against official advice) and entertaining Labour minister in China.
Right, lets just blame the Herald for reporting it.
Have to agree with you. Surely someone working for Labor said 2 days ago when questions about Labor and Liu came up soul dhave started a search for all links. This incompetance is inexcusable and may honestly cost the lef this election.
What lies? Apart from Collin’s that is. The NZ Herald is a discredited hatchet job rag, I’m just waiting for the banner “Labour in ruins” headlines the day before election day.
It’s not lies – it’s just out right incompetence.
Labour should have been on the front foot about this. – The man did after all buy a book at auction for a very large sum. When he came to light with his involvement with National alarm bells should have been ringing in Labour HQ as well. Now it all looks messy and tarred with the same brush – no matter how hard Labour try to explain it.
Frankly I am consigning myself to the fact that with these incompetents of the main “Left” party – National will sleep walk to the treasury benches – to the detriment of us all.
Labour are playing a hopeless game – their strategies and their tactics are appalling. Not only are they turning away their base supporters with extending the age to entitlement for Super (how many 50+ to 64 year olds are going to vote for that! many just hanging on in there in a work place that is becoming more and more oppressive), Turning away the “strugglers” who have scrapped together enough to buy a bach someplace, exacerbating the plight of young workers – already having to repay tertiary loans and trying to save for a place to live, with another imposition – compulsory Kiwisaver. If that is not enough, they keep on dropping the ball, and kicking for touch. They haven’t a hope in hades of getting more than 30% if they are lucky.
The only hope is that the people will see where the true future of NZ lies; and switch to a Party that truly represents the future of NZ (and its not on the right).
Oh stop it lol. On the bright side, the more centrist and 3rd way Labour become, the more room we will have for proper Left Wing parties.
Yeah it’s election suicide. National are going to successfully position themselves as the party of the struggling older worker in the TV debates just on that one platform, and there is nothing Labour will be able to do about that if they stick with this kamikaze policy.
c’mon blue..!..cunnliffe has fucked-up..big-time..!
..bit silly to shoot the messanger..eh..?
..off to watch Parliament TV now…….popcorn.
Is there not a Labour MP who can keep a clean sheet? FFS! the election is there to be won if they stop F!!king around, but oh no, little surprises keep popping up, playing into the Nat’s hands!!
Get someone in there who can keep the members in check, and who can control the caucus with an iron fist.
So – whats everybody’s guess for the body of the 2:45 media interview today?
Quitting?
Its all a mistake?
You all have it wrong?
Its John Keys Fault?
But, yeah, this probably isnt good for labour.
It’s apt that the soccer world cup is on at the moment – there was a great world cup quote:
“They think it’s all over, it is now”
Perhaps he’ll toss someone under the bus ?
How about: “This National Party beat-up shows they’re getting desperate. MPs fulfill requests like this – for information about procedure – all the time.”
Suddenly the Internet Party may start looking quite “acceptable” to more voters, given what the MPs and leaders of Nats and Labour have been up to.
Rich pricks are donating and discretely lobbying for support and likely favours all over the place, come back, Transparency International, please, do a re-check on these bizarre claims New Zealand (Inc) is one of the “least corrupt” countries in the world. No, the governments here are mostly just very smart at pulling the wool over people’s eyes.
I think there is probably more transparency and honesty in certain “third world countries” than there is in NZ, well the days will come where NZ Inc will join the “developing world”, given over dependence on primary product exports, with little added value.
Should have posted this here:
” Did you have anything to do with the granting of his permanent residency?”
“No I did not.”
Hang on there. That is still true isn’t it?
DC as an MP wrote to find out how long would it be before an Investment decision be processed. Not an application for residency is it?
Yes, but if you ignore all the inconvenient facts you can prove that he’s Saddam Hussein in disguise!
Calm down. The letter does not show any misdemeanour on Cunliffe’s part. Brain fades which are not in fact brain fades (like forgetting the no of shares in Transrail or forgetting a helicopter ride to a mansion) are different.
Ha ha hypocrisy rules !
So the letter shows that Cunliffe lobbied in support of Liu’s citizenship application? Nah, I think you’re lying, as a perfect expression of your low character.
You’d better quote the relevant part of the letter to prove me wrong.
Yep. AKA, only bad when it’s done by the right.
Er, no, John Banks and John Key were lying and ‘conveniently’ forgot.
Furthermore, the John’s cases what they lied about were materially bad things to lie about. Cunliffe’s crime (if you can even call it that) is saying he didn’t do something, when evidence comes to light that he might have. Big deal?
Show me how Cunliffe’s letter crossed the line, Infused. Quote it to make your case.
It has nothing to do with the letter.
Pray tell, what is the “it” that’s only bad when it’s done by the right?
I was talking about the brain fade. Which Cunliffe himself has attacked Key over, but has been using more often these days,
Holding a press conference and admitting a fuck-up is what exactly? Everyone has brain-fades, they become suspicious when they’re a little too convenient. Remind me how convenient this one is.
So far the only substantive criticism of Cunliffe comes from Danyl, that well known right winger. No, wait.
I have no problem with it.
You are missing the point, as usual.
The point is that it is now open season any any MP who’s ever written a letter on behalf of a constituent looking for information, whereas previously it was only open season on MPs who divert Ministerial visits to China to materially benefit their husband’s company.
but you dont think key or collins have done anything wrong, despite being caught in untruths around significant donors, do you?
When john key, responsible for gcsb, met with one person to discuss a leader for the gcsb, do you believe he could not only forget that he recommended fletcher and agreed to contact him, but when a sked remembered it as iain rennie recommending fletcher?
If your answer is yes, then you must accept that cunliffe didnt recall writing a letter in 2003 asking inz to give liu a time feame for his application?
IFf your answer is no, can we agree collins, key and cunliffe need to go?
In all probability, neither Cunliffe nor Collins actually did anything which risks the security of the nation, in their dealings with some Chinese businessmen.
But neither Cunliffe nor Collins can pass the “Electorate Sniff Test” as both appear to have said something that is factually incorrect, and have both been found out.
The real difference is that Collins does not (and now never will) lead her party and never have to go onto a leaders debate and risk being questioned on matters of credibility.
Cunliffe, unfortunately, will go forward to some leaders debate and will be open to accusations (pretty unjustified ones really) that hes a bit economical with the truth.
We need a strong opposition to keep the Government honest, and we arent geting it at all at this time. The Labour MPs need to realise that their opposition is on the other side of the House.
Cunliffe and Liu.The phrase comes to mind “hoisted by one!s own petard”.
Asking for someone to be advised of a timetable is not the same as lobbying in favour of their citizenship application. I can see why The Herald is pretending otherwise. I’m not sure why so many lefties agree with them though.
Once again, for those who clearly don’t get it, the media had their cosy relationship with the NZLP leadership selection process disrupted and retaliation is inevitable. That means they pick through everything looking for things to cast a negative light upon. There’s no way around this, and it doesn’t matter what you do. If you say you like apples they’ll say you have something against oranges.
That said, it works, or Tories wouldn’t own media outlets nor fill the ones they can’t buy with shills.
Fair points of course. The perception will be fanned and that is their plan. I’d like to know why they were snooping down that hole anyway – who set them on the scent. Also I thought politicians were smart enough to know that unequivocal ‘nos’ often come back and bite them on the bum. Jeez just get them to watch a bit of ‘Yes Minister”.
LOL at press conference…
“”I actually know I’ve done nothing wrong” – Cunliffe.
Yep Voters will love that !
Was Len Brown there nodding sagely in the back ground ?
it was good enuff for key when banks said it… and banks turns out to have committed a crime
geezus. A lot of frothing over a mole hill that is nothing like what happened with the Nats and Liu.
And, from Clare Trevvett on Twitter:
Not a lie. Not a resigning matter – some incompetence there.
As predicted Cunliffe throws one of his nameless plebs under the bus.
#Heyclint what do you think about that ?
🙄
Actual Cunliffe response, according to Stuff:
“He checked with his office but doesn’t blame staff.”
I’m sure most of the press gallery and those interested in politics will be rolling their eyes at Cunliffe’s performance as well.
The difference between Cunliffe’s performance and yours is that he hasn’t been caught bullshitting.
Awwww big bad TRP, are you going to have a wee cry and suck on your thumb ?
Stuff report of Cunliffe’s stand up:
Storm in a teacup – and the links to Cunliffe re- knowing about Liu’s contribution via Labour Party auctions/raffles?
Storm in a teacup.
Yep and the letter does not even advocate, all it does was ask for when a decision was likely.
On an investment decision, right? Not an immigration matter.
….or…”just letting you know I’m keeping a close eye on this”
Is that what it looks like to authoritarian followers? Better make sure immigration fires them all if that’s what they read into requests for information.
MPs should not get involved.
Quite right Karol. Who can remember routine letters they wrote 11 years ago, forchristsake?
I think Cunliffe should go on the attack here, saying this was a minor matter 11 years ago and asking what normal person could remember this and drawing a distinction between this and Williamson’s intervention in the legal system.
On the information we have this is a beat up and Armstrong has lost all credibility here; one rule for Key and Collins, another for Cunliffe.
shit the pm cant even remember recommending ian fletcher to iain rennie and agreeing to make contact with him… himself
Exactly Tracey. Cunliffe must attack saying Key’s memory span doesn’t stretch for a few months let alone 11 years.
This is a single page letter from 11 years ago probably dictated in 5 minutes.
+1 Karol
I really cannot see what the fuss is about. This is a media beat-up orchestrated by the right. It’s a shame his office did not remember this but it was 10 years ago and it is a standard constituent MP letter. He isn’t writing as a cabinet minister, he isn’t approaching the police about a criminal conviction. The letter just asked for an indication of how long the decision on an application is likely to take. It doesn’t suggest the application needs to be granted because this guy is rich. As for the memory lapse this is nothing compared to the memory lapses John Key has had over more serious matters over the past few years.
+1 Karol and Karen. I cannot believe the vitriol with which David Cunliffe is being pursued, and the lack of basis for it. They must have dug deep to come up with this one: 11 years old and too ordinary to be memorable. I am so sick of the NZ right wing and their tiresome baying hounds.
It’s a measure of how desperate the Right Wing are right now. They know that David Cunliffe, PM, means that they will be locked out of power for a good long number of terms.
+100
and actually, the desperate attempts of the gnats are, quite strangely (!), bringing my party vote back firmly to Labour to strengthen support for Cunliffe …. this despite some Labour policies that i don’t agree with
As I said in the other thread, it’s crucial that Labour don’t respond in kind with trying to dish out dirt on the NATs.
~94 days left until election day. Labour has to push out into the public arena positive policy of what it will actively do in the first year of office.
This is not a time to get side tracked by NAT games, this is a time to demonstrate to the electorate a government-in-waiting eager to get on with the job of governing the nation.
“I did not tell a lie.” Cunliffe says it was a “failure to recall”
Awesome.
“He said he gave an honest answer yesterday.”
Seriously he should just STFU this is just getting embarrassing.
Yeah – the right wing spin meisters never sleep.
Whadda you care aren’t you a Green ?
As a Green voter I prefer that the country not be governed by right wing scum with transparent double standards to go with their witless incompetence.
You’re being a bit harsh on Cunliffe there..
😆 well played.
I’m left. These days I vote Green – and have volunteered to help them this election – not a party member though. I’m not a great fan of the current Labour caucus – on balance.
Anyway.
I just care about the hypocritical smearing done by the right and the compliant MSM.
The most anyone can say is that Team Cunliffe have been sloppy.
This is a major beat-up on thin evidence.
You see that’s the disappointing thing in NZ – the number of political partisans that only care about the hypocritical smearing done by their opponents and then go on and do the exact same thing themselves next week ……. and the bitching in NZ at the moment about the compliant MSM from the left and right side of the political spectrum, pathetic can’t we just all agree that the MSM is just pretty shit rather than accusing them of any particular imagined political bias to explain their shitness.
Oh puleeze: confirmation and cognitive biases are inescapable: democracy only works insofar as it can eliminate bias in the decision-making process.
So we all do it, and since we all do it, we all point it out in one another: what are we supposed to do, just sit there while John Key claims ignorance of Springboks and intimate knowledge of invisible environmental science that proves our 100% purity?
Think of it like peer-review, and pay attention to the timing.
Which is why i wont vote for ACT! National or Labour… Oh and UF.
The only way to get rid of the loose use of the truth is to vote for those who discuss and proffer policies, solutions and a high standard of behaviour.
I support Labour, but if John Key was getting shabby treatment he didn’t deserve, then I would stick up for him to.
Yes I agree Lanth you are among most fair and reasonable commenters at this site and an example to the rest of us most of the time.
But not all the time 😛
my benchmark is truth. If our leaders, in all their forms twist and manipulate words to obscure truths we cannot expect tge rest of the fish to escape the rot.
“Failure to recall”… boom!… Cunliffe just established his credentials to be Prime Minister.
lol.
Come on James it was a letter written 11 years ago by a staff member. Really?
So now there’s a letter signed by David Cunliffe that has either a) not been read, only signed by DC, or b) basically a forged document sent out with his signature, but without his knowing or approval….
… wow, how many more are there?
Open season now on any MP who’s ever written a letter on behalf on a constituent. Better make sure none of them were at Cabinet Club.
Also open season for any MP or party who hasn’t properly declared donations – looks like some great fun to be had as the Nats and Labour nuke each other all the way to the election.
lol
I don’t have access to trademe at work (because some dicks overused it to the point of being blatant), but I have found an auction that mets the criteria so far set by the tory shitmerchants: an auction where people paid for a copy of a book signed by Helen clark.
the auction?
Books for Babes:
Can someone look it up on Trademe and see if the Clark book went for $15k? Might explain why Labour are having difficulty finding it in their accounts.
Trademe don’t appear to keep auctions going back that far publicly accessible. The booksforbabes.org.nz website has a snapshot from 2008 on Wayback Machine, but it doesn’t seem to mention anything about the auction or it’s outcome.
okay, not quite – apparently the auction only raised $500.
HC must have gotten RSI, signing all that stuff for charity auctions 🙂
The Clark book did sell for $15,000.and the winning bidder was Mr Liu.
I have some questions about that. I’ve been looking for the last few days to get a confirmation about that, and I can’t get one.
cite pls
This is hilarious.
20% here we come.
Crikey! It was only yesterday that I described Labour polling at 20% as “BM’s wet dream” and here he is confirming his nocturnal emissions. Funny old world, eh?
lol
Pretty much. Loving the defense here though.
Interesting post by DanylMc: Cunliffe stupidly fell for a Nats’ sting:
Which is what all the fuss about. Yes, nails it on the head.
I knew something was up when I heard that asked yesterday and wondered what was coming.
to clarify, if key is caught in a lie(example below) it is irrelevant even tho he is pm, but cunliffe caught in a lie is too stupid to be pm, that was your point tgrough this thread infused?
John key said he played golf with shu, of oravida, for “charity”, when it was for 50k to the national party
John key, as head of gcsb, said iain rennie recommended ian fletcher when it was actually key who recommended him and agreed to be the one to contact him?
John key, during a recession, said he had to get the bmws cos labour had committed to them. Not true at all
John key said labour committed govt to paying out scf. Not true, the guarantee was renewed by bill english and contrary to treasury advice
So what exactly should Cunliffe have said, then? Refused to answer the question?
If you are not sure the best thing to say is I don’t know especially in situations like this.
not really – makes you looks shifty. Especially if you think you’d recall the guy.
The thing is, that letter would be in Liu’s immigration file. Which is in possession of the government. And obviously being used for political gain.
Whereas Cunliffe largely has to search all correspondence by his office and hope nothing gets missed. In the time it takes to respond. So if he doesn’t remember, he’s screwed.
Who’s electorate was Liu in when Cunnliffe was approached, I wonder? Did L do the “approach all MPs in my area” thing? Probably. At least 4 years before any possible donation.
A far cry from personally calling police about a party donor.
Yeah this is a very shady part of this operation
Shades of Paula Bennett and the Privacy Commission. I wonder how Mr. Liu enjoys being used as a political football by the beneficiaries of his largesse.
Nice parallel construction gone on here I think…an insider who knows about the existence of the letter leaks it to the Tories…who put together an OIA for a letter that they already know exists because of the leak. And voila, look what they discovered just by chance.
As soon as National was being questioned on Liu, they would have looked at his file. So, who knew that letter was sitting there?
And will anyone face charges for breaching Mr. Liu’s legal right to privacy?
will they hell…
Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the Herald could have just requested copies of all letters written by Members of Parliament in respect of Mr Liu? I’m not sure that the existence of a leak is needed to account for all the known facts.
possibly.
Just pure coincidence that nats get cunliffe to make a statement and the herald is prompt with an overhyped “contradiction”, isn’t it.
Yes it is. Have a look at what can be requested in a OIA at some stage. It is quite limited and you must be quite specific.
Brilliantly played by the blue team and supported beautifully by the ABCers.
The timing is superb.
Key in the US shaking hands and being all matey matey with the POTUS, while back home his challenger(snort) is getting crucified for his incompetence and out right shiftiness.
It couldn’t have gone better
It would have gone better if they had an actual crime (like signing a false electoral return) or incredibly dodgy behaviour (like parliamentary speeches about tranzrail when owning shares in the company), rather than this damp squib.
At least you’re honest. And yes, well played.
The Blue Team????
Really – why? Who benefits? Not National – this is very much an inside job. Look in the caucus room for Labour and you will find the person/people behind this stitch up job.
National love having Cunliffe as LOTO – it suits them. They will be fuming he is in the doo-doo over this. Happy to see him squirm for sure… but strategically it doesn’t suit them one bit.
If your loking for who benefits then look at ABC – its much more likely. Play the Oravida card, get the media hyped up on recent Chinese business emigrants acting like the do in Chingqing, then leak the Labour party linkages to Liu, then Cunliffes linkages to Liu. Stir well and watch it burn….
Internecine warfare – when will the Left ever learn…
EDIT: a couple of spelling errors as always…
Infused, if you managed to wonder what was coming why didn’t the clowns in the war room who are advising Cunliffe wonder the same thing?
I said to my partner last night there was a loaded gun behind this.
I don’t know. They obviously aren’t batting for Cunliffe, despite what he says.
Surely Barker knew exactly who Liu was, having travelled 1800km out of his way to have dinner with him. Likewise some Labour minister knew that they had approved his residency against official advice?
When Cunliffe started attacking National over Liu, why didn’t these guys just ring Cunliffe and say “hang on, we might have a bit of skin in this game too”? Nobody did. Is the ABC club that influential?
They say Perception is reality.
Not looking like the media are being helpful to the comrades leader:
NZHerald: Everybodys talking about :Cunliffe’s resignation may be in order
NZHerald lead story: Cunliffe: I have not lied
Stuff Lead story: Cunliffe: I didn’t lie
NewstalkZB: Cunliffe intervened in Donghua Liu’s residency
TVNZ: David Cunliffe: I will not resign
3 News: Official documents reveal David Cunliffe knew about controversial businessman Donghua Liu – despite repeatedly denying it.
Seems that this website is one of the few websites that think that there is nothing to see here.
Will not be surprised if there is more to come on this.
DC is going to be crucified in this election.
If Cunliffe has to resign over this, Key should have resigned years ago.
Karol – its just more varnish on the object called “Tricky and unorganised”.
I don’t know David Cunliffe except what I see in the media. And frankly as a centrist, tending right to be truthful, it leaves me cold – not his Left wing policies and advocating for the working class, no problem with that.
Its his lack of organisation and consistency that gets me. Political Management is the PM’s job. DC has demonstrated he hasn’t got that mastered – his own caucus are stitching him up….
you have no proof this came from labour not nats. with key away it reeks of nats dirty tricks.
why do you think key has got away with over 100 lies or brain fades…. and cunliffe has been fried for a few. it cant be anabborrencee of lying or bad memories
It is clear now that the ABC faction have white-anted Cunliffe from day one. They should be expelled from the party, preferably before the election.
you have no proof and are buying into what the right wants you to believe. This bas national all over it NOT playing dirty of course
pffffffttttt.
tomorrows fish and chips.
nice
Twitter and Faceboook, UK boss says its not illegal to spy on them.
So essentially, terrorists, the dumb ones, use these sites. The smart terrorists don’t or don’t reveal anything important when using them.
The people who use Twitter and Facebook are going to be people whose motivation change, maybe.
Those like in the Arab spring who suddenly rise up, and use social media.
Or back in the UK, those who become terrorists.
So the UK authorities surely are tracking people in order to predict and catch a terrorist before they become a terrorist. Now that would require extensive data, and a huge effort of examining motivations and character paths to becoming a terrorist.
Of course, this would also be very useful to commercial entities as well, and worse, to political movements. Take our current Tory cult that has now be running its course through society for the last thirty years. Believers in the true perfection of markets, too deluded to know better, could easily have misused such a vast wealth of government collected data to pursue those against their cause.
That’s the fear. But fully we have Key protecting us, putting Banks and Dunne on the intelligence committee…
my partner suggested today that due to her. on use of social media and devices for work only she has hit on a more private life than others
Wake up to gross bias and manipulation of the news.
Wake up to attacks on the left by the right.
Know what died you are on.
This is not the time to be taken in by the right and the fickle media.
Cunliffe didn’t recall a standard request his office made.
This attack on Cunliffe is designed to keep the right in power, to continue to transfer wealth to the better-off and to keep the poor down.
Know what side you are on.
Fight against the right.
My local library has now banned access to national radio podcasts.
yeah Radio New Zealand gets crummier and crummier by the day.
The saddest thing is that, for the most part, Cunliffe is the author of his own misfortune:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10173411/David-Cunliffes-catastrophes
“I did not tell a lie, I absolutely did not.”
He added: ”The advice I had was we had no records. My memory has obviously failed me.”
For some reason it reminded me of this:
http://www.comicbookkid.co.uk/deadpool-needs-you/673px-1519921-deadpool_104/
It didn’t remind you of John Key repeatedly claiming brain fades over far more serious matters?
piss off chris.
speak for yourself and stop dropping link shite all over the place.
Just because the crawling creeps have unearthed some nothing from 2003 has got all you capons into frenzy.
where did john keys get $80,000,000 of other peoples money from?
where did john keys get $80,000,000 of other peoples money from?
Meanwhile, while we are all working ourselves into a frenzy over something someone signed 11 years ago, the government is set to outsource school caretaking jobs to multinational corporations…
I could weep……..scabs scabs scabs and scabs everywhere…….but particularly in the once proud New Zealand Labour Party. No ? Have a look at Campbell Live tonight…….Mallard, King, Pipkins…….the bespectacled one from Dunedin somewhere. They all just gleefully voted for Mr Higher ShonKey Standards. Gleefully.
Thank Christ there’s a New Left emerging.
Two scab-hits in 30 years. Tell me…….how much do these bastards care about those down the bottom. Oh heaps…….like, like, their parliamentary pensions forever and ever……hundy K plus. Scabs !
CV returns. Ahem. 😎
The sooner you get on the front bench, the better…