Open mike 18/07/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:45 am, July 18th, 2014 - 203 comments
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203 comments on “Open mike 18/07/2014 ”

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  1. NzJackson 1
    18 July 2014 at 6:53 am

    Hone Harawira under pressure in his Te Tai Tokerau electorate, last weekend a request was made by current Mana members for Clinton Dearlove to stand for Mana in the Tamaki Makaurau.

    The request was declined by Mr Dearlove.

    This was either a back channel offer by Mr Harawira himself or Mana members breaking ranks over the InternetMONEY party.

    link below

    https://www.facebook.com/289480731230120/photos/a.289845987860261.1073741828.289480731230120/300839110094282/?type=1

  2. Colonial Viper 2
    18 July 2014 at 7:01 am

    Very very bad news. Malaysian airliner destroyed over eastern Ukraine. Its going to get ugly, fast.

    • cricklewood 2.1
      18 July 2014 at 8:06 am

      Don’t know if the link will function but this has been put up by the Ukraine govt. Purportedly an intercepted conversation proving authorisation from within Russia… (Source Telegraph clip yet to be verified).

      It sounds like a horrible mistake in terms of miss identifying the plane, there is some social media from the separatists announcing they had shot down a military plane at the time and place where the Malaysian Jet ended up.

      Correct to say it’s going to get ugly fast…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V5E8kDo2n6g

      • karol 2.1.1
        18 July 2014 at 8:32 am

        Shit. Sounds like some amateurs with deadly weapons, mistaking a civilian plane for a military one.

        • phillip ure 2.1.1.1
          18 July 2014 at 8:52 am

          intercepted phone calls show two russian intelligence officers involved..

        • Melb 2.1.1.2
          18 July 2014 at 9:23 am

          That’s exactly what it is. The rebels only obtained an SA-11 missile system two days ago, and two hours ago were claiming on social media that they’d shot down an AN-26 transport plane.

          • Jenny 2.1.1.2.1
            18 July 2014 at 10:36 am

            There is no way that responsible air traffic controllers should have directed a civilian flight through a war zone unnecessarily risking their passengers lives. Especially on a flight path on which two flights had just been shot down in previous days.

            This is the height of incompetence and irresponsibility.

            There is no way that this should have happened again.

            From Wikipedia: KAL 007

            The Soviet Union initially denied knowledge of the incident,[2] but later admitted the shootdown, claiming that the aircraft was on a spy mission.[3] The Politburo said it was a deliberate provocation by the United States[4] to test the Soviet Union’s military preparedness, or even to provoke a war. The White House accused the Soviet Union of obstructing search and rescue operations.[5] The Soviet military suppressed evidence sought by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) investigation, notably the flight data recorders,[6] which were eventually released eight years later after the collapse of the Soviet Union.[7]

            The incident was one of the tensest moments of the Cold War and resulted in an escalation of anti-Soviet sentiment, particularly in the United States. The opposing points of view on the incident were never fully resolved. Consequently, several groups continue to dispute official reports and offer alternative theories of the event. The subsequent release of KAL 007 flight transcripts and flight recorders by the Russian Federation has clarified some details.

            As a result of the incident, the United States altered tracking procedures for aircraft departing Alaska. The interface of the autopilot used on airliners was redesigned to make it more ergonomic.[8] In addition, the event was one of the most important single events that prompted the Reagan Administration to allow worldwide access to the United States military’s GNSS system, which was classified at the time. Today this system is widely known as GPS

            It seems that civilian air flights are being sacrificed as pawns in prelude to all out war.

        • Murray Olsen 2.1.1.3
          18 July 2014 at 11:03 pm

          Or maybe, karol, people every bit as professional as the sailors on the USS Vincennes, mistaking Iran Air Flight 655 for a military aircraft. They had radars and electronic capabilities well in advance of anything soldiers on the ground with an AA missile launcher and a mobile radar would have.

          At this stage I have no idea whether it’s the Ukrainian rebels acting with Russian support, or the neo-fascist government, trying to provoke a Western response. It also comes at a very convenient time for Netanyahu, so I’ll wait and see. While I doubt if the west will intervene militarily, their hypocrisy in condemning this after the number of innocents they have killed really gets to me.

          In any case, and whoever did it, killing civilians is horrific. It needs to stop all over the world.

      • Populuxe1 2.1.2
        18 July 2014 at 2:23 pm

        A horrible mistake? Giving surface to air weapons to a bunch of lunatics in the first place is a horrible mistake. Thanks Vlad.

    • travellerev 2.2
      18 July 2014 at 8:17 am

      Even worse. Netanyahu just ordered the ground invasion into Gaza to go live.

      • freedom 2.2.1
        18 July 2014 at 8:25 am

        Here is an example of the unmitigated sickness of mind in the Israeli Parliament
        http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/16/371556/israel-must-kill-all-palestinian-mothers/

        • Gosman 2.2.1.1
          18 July 2014 at 8:44 am

          A single MP rather than the entire Parliament. There may even be some other MP’s who share her views but I would suggest they are in the minority. I could equally point you to anti-Jewish views expressed in Arab nations and propagated via state controlled media outlets. There are extremists on both sides.

          • freedom 2.2.1.1.1
            18 July 2014 at 4:11 pm

            breaking news from Gosman

            WATER IS WET

            The chief difference being the ‘terrorists’ in those Parliaments (usually) leave that level of hate-filled commentary to others, namely those not elected by their people to positions of democratic representation and responsibility. As Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Recep Erdogan says “If these words had been said by a Palestinian, the whole world would have denounced it,”

            The world, including you, conveniently forget on a regular basis how Hamas is part of a democratically elected government so when Egypt does not even bother to consult them when formulating a cease fire plan, can you blame them for doing what any government would do in that position and rightly claim the cease fire has no consideration for their position, so Palestine has no obligation to agree to it. Israel would have done the exact same thing and you likely would have applauded them for it.

            Returning to the hate-speech of Ayelet Shaked. This intelligent experienced professional who is a computer engineer and has previously worked in the office of the Prime Minister, is a top five member of Knesset for the Jewish Home, a group who hold 10% of the Israel Parliament. This Parliamentarian you are so quick to dismiss is part of the unicameral national legislature of Israel. As the legislative branch of the Israeli government, the Knesset passes all laws, elects the President and Prime Minister, approves the cabinet, and supervises the work of the government. One might say her views hold some weight.

            Her post by the way, was published the day before the Palestinian teen was abducted and burned alive in retaliation for the three Israeli teens whose deaths have been central to this latest incident. The same tragic deaths Netanyahu was all too eager to manipulate into full hysteria and escalate into true bloodlust.
            http://electronicintifada.net/content/netanyahu-government-knew-teens-were-dead-it-whipped-racist-frenzy/13533
            http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-lawmakers-call-genocide-palestinians-gets-thousands-facebook-likes

      • travellerev 2.2.2
        18 July 2014 at 8:47 am

        Update: According to a Dutch news paper an anonymous source told Russian Press agency Interfax that Putin’s plane returning from the BRIC meeting was in the same airspace shortly before or after the Malaysian plane was shot down. the plot thickens!

        • Gosman 2.2.2.1
          18 July 2014 at 9:22 am

          Wow! An anonymous source told a Russian media agency that there was a plane in the area that if targetted would absolve the Russian government of all blame. Why don’t I placve much store in that do you think?

          • travellerev 2.2.2.1.1
            18 July 2014 at 9:43 am

            ANNDDDD Wow, The Gos is bored and needs to earn his shill money! Gagging for a war with Russia are you? You fuckin moron.

            • tinfoilhat 2.2.2.1.1.1
              18 July 2014 at 9:47 am

              Please go back to your dark hole Travelleve- your bilious and vile conspiracy theories are grossly disrespectful to those killed and their families.

              • Gosman …
                18 July 2014 at 9:55 am

                I find interesting her gigantic leap of logic that simply pointing out that her potential conspiracy theory about the so called real reason for the shooting down of the plane somehow means you must support a war with Russia.

            • deep throat 2.2.2.1.1.2
              18 July 2014 at 10:25 am

              hey ev, dont you mean moran!

              • travellerev …
                18 July 2014 at 12:30 pm

                Hey Tinfoil, What conspiracy theory would that be. The one we got pushed down our throat within minutes of the plane crashing or how about we just wait and see and keep all our options open and some real investigative work needs to be done. In order of course to respect those who died 154 are my country men and women after all. Would not want them to used for the next godforsaken war.

                You want to write moron as moran be my guest.

    • adam 2.3
      18 July 2014 at 2:42 pm

      The reality C.V it’s been bad for a while, just in the last three days leading up to the shooting down of this Malaysian aircraft. Their has been shelling and shootings across Ukraine. With at least 17 civilian deaths and no-one knows how many combatants have been killed – this includes militias and government forces. Anarchist activists on both sides have been arrested, many on the Russian speaking side of Ukraine are ending up in Russian prisons and have been charged as terrorists. And on the other half they just disappear into red tape, or into these guys hands http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28329329

  3. Ad 3
    18 July 2014 at 7:05 am

    Could someone tell me when the Labour leader is due back?

    Seems odd to have a major launch in Wellington, but then, in the same week that Key is absent the media, Cunliffe accedes the media ground following the launch to National?

    You can’t start a campaign, put it on hold, then start it again.

    Cunliffe, you need to come back.

    • Colonial Viper 3.1
      18 July 2014 at 7:11 am

      Wasnt he in Queenstown yesterday campaigning with Liz Craig? But yes, basically everyone has bizzarely gone for school holidays.

      • phillip ure 3.1.1
        18 July 2014 at 8:21 am

        mp’s can’t be expected to interrupt their ‘school-holidays’..!

        ..what heresy are you suggesting..?

        ..they need their extended/frequent holiday-breaks..

        ..they work so hard..on our behalf..the poor-luvvies..!

        ..i mean..all those questiontimes..?

      • Ad 3.1.2
        18 July 2014 at 8:45 am

        Ideally some shots of him with a hammer in his hand putting up billboards tomorrow wouldn’t go astray.

        Also we have campaign headquarters open and the old engine gets turned on again.

        For most activists, we are neck deep in it – and moral support really counts winter, and when the polls are down.

        • Colonial Viper 3.1.2.1
          18 July 2014 at 1:15 pm

          Yep. Me and mates are putting up hoardings all around Region 6 next weekend. And the one after that.

      • phillip ure 3.1.3
        18 July 2014 at 8:57 am

        cunnliffe should have been here..filling that media/information vaccuum..

        ..he needs a fucken holiday more..?

        ..that is more important..?..

        ..at this particular point in time..?

        ..yet another tactical foot-shot..

        ..it’s getting to be a long fucken list of them..isn’t it..?

        • Bearded Git 3.1.3.1
          18 July 2014 at 11:38 am

          It’s negative comments that fuel the anti-Cunliffe debate. He is good value and the right man for the job.

          There is a massive anti Cunliffe MSM campaign out there. He was campaigning in Queenstown not on holiday in Hawaii.

          FFS give the man a break and say something positive about him. We are 9 weeks out from an election and the Left needs to pull together.

        • greywarbler 3.1.3.2
          18 July 2014 at 1:48 pm

          phillip ure
          Can you keep your opinionated comments shut until after the election? You are neither use nor ornament when you can’t use your intelligence for good advantage to the left.. With this negative stuff you turn to the dark side.

          Why not just shut up if you can’t say something helpful and positive. With friends like you… Perhaps after all you are a sneaky right wing white anter. If not, show it by not saying one more negative thing till the election is over or can’t you help being a smart arse know all.

          and that goes for bad 12 too.

          • phillip ure 3.1.3.2.1
            18 July 2014 at 2:04 pm

            “..or can’t you help being a smart arse know all…”

            ..i’ve tried treatment..nothing worked…

            ..and i am ‘working for the left’..

            ..i am ‘working’ for a real ‘left’ govt..

            ..not just a national-lite/clark-years rehash..

            ..which you seem to be more than happy with the prospect of..?

            • Tracey 3.1.3.2.1.1
              18 July 2014 at 3:54 pm

              In what way are you working for those things?

            • greywarbler 3.1.3.2.1.2
              18 July 2014 at 5:12 pm

              @phillip
              to your last comment – I repeat –
              ‘You are neither use nor ornament when you can’t use your intelligence for good advantage to the left..’ And the best thing you can do is use your judgment to decide to stop making comments that demean the left.

              • phillip ure …
                18 July 2014 at 5:15 pm

                re yr comment:..i repeat..

                “….not just a national-lite/clark-years rehash..

                ..which you seem to be more than happy with the prospect of..?.”

                • Blue …
                  19 July 2014 at 4:46 am

                  Jesus it’s like you lot are determined to destroy the left on the basis of pointless dogma. Which one of you is the “peoples popular front” and which one is the “popular peoples front”? It is, however, very entertaining.

          • bad12 3.1.3.2.2
            18 July 2014 at 4:56 pm

            Greywarbler, the short answer is F off wanker, the longer one, what comments of mine are you trying to suppress,

            If you want me to begin a series of anti-Cunliffe/anti- Labour rants leading into the election attempting to suppress my comments is the exact means of achieving this…

            • greywarbler 3.1.3.2.2.1
              18 July 2014 at 5:08 pm

              @Bad 12 4.56
              It is unfortunate that you are so unable to discipline yourself to find a more courteous and thoughtful approach to other people. You would then limit your bad language but you won’t try as I feel that you like yourself as you are too much.

              • bad12 …
                18 July 2014 at 5:51 pm

                Lets try again shall we greywarbler, exactly who the fuck do you think you are attempting to suppress how and upon what subjects i choose to comment on,

                This is ‘Open Mike’ it is provided so that we can comment on ‘anything’ that might be exercising our brains so as to keep the actual Posts relatively free of such distractions,

                The Moderators set the boundaries within which the discourse occurs not you greywarbler, so, if you cannot handle the comments i in particular make, its simple just scroll on by when you see the Bad username, or better still, F off with your inane whining…

          • Murray Olsen 3.1.3.2.3
            19 July 2014 at 12:29 am

            As far as I can see, Mr. Ure is a complete narcissist who has somehow self-identified with the left. Sometimes he says something quite insightful and useful, but not more than 5% of the time. I don’t think he’s a right wing white anter like Populuxe, but he could usefully learn that less is more. The way he carries on here is likely to make new readers wonder what the hell they’ve staggered into.

            As for the squabbles with bad12, the two of them have just about put me off this site completely. I still read some of the posts, but don’t feel very enthusiastic about contributing.

            PS I ate chicken tonight and took oxycodone, so feel free to make remarks about fat dripping down my junkie chin.

            • greywarbler 3.1.3.2.3.1
              19 July 2014 at 1:09 pm

              Don’t go Murry don’t go. It’s not the election time already.

              Just come and visit and read Colonial Viper and karol and a few favourites DtB ec etc. There are plenty. You just have to sort out the wheat from the chaff, the gold from the washings, etc etc. But please don’t increase some other blogs IQ and in your absence, drop ours.

      • Hami Shearlie 3.1.4
        18 July 2014 at 11:03 am

        He was indeed CV!

    • big bruv 3.2
      18 July 2014 at 7:39 am

      All reports would suggest that the best thing Cunliffe could do is stay away. I do wonder how Labour followers are going to feel when the Greens are the official opposition after September 20th.

      • karol 3.2.1
        18 July 2014 at 8:11 am

        It’s a shame the right has nothing to campaign on but negativity. Got nothing to offer the country or the majority of Kiwis.

        • phillip ure 3.2.1.1
          18 July 2014 at 8:35 am

          you also really need to look to labour..

          ..there are no real game-changing policies ..on matters that really matter ..on offer from them..

          ..just the same old faces..preaching the same old neo-lib ‘growth’/arbeit-macht-frei! bullshit…

          ..but as long as the greens and internet/mana pick up those collapsing labour votes..

          (.and more..).

          ..the left bloc cd end up looking how many (including me) wd like it..

          ..with neo-lib labour collapsing out to those smaller parties..

          ..the ones that have ‘real’ labour policies…

          ..and the greens/internet/mana together being able to force labour to enact the changes we need..

          ..i for one was not happy at the prospect of a dominant-labour..greens as ministers..supported by peters..

          ..with internet/mana glowering on the opposition benches..

          ..from chaos comes change..

          ..(and you can’t say labor haven’t been warned..repeatedly..with the polls also underlining that story..

          ..a cunnliffe promising major change..soared in the polls..

          ..cunnliffe/labour veering back to the centre/right since then..showing a corresponding dive in support..’

          ..just exactly how much more of a fucken heads-up do they need..?..)

          • Bearded Git 3.2.1.1.1
            18 July 2014 at 11:41 am

            Phillip-negative negative negative. Do take a look at all the policies Labour have announced with more to come.

            Are you trolling for the Nats now?

            • phillip ure 3.2.1.1.1.1
              18 July 2014 at 1:12 pm

              yes they have some bits and bobs that r ok…

              ..but there is no poverty-busting..

              ..there is no serious fighting global climatechange in there..

              ..(in fact..to the contrary…more drilling/mines etc..)

              ..there is no financial transaction tax on the banksters..etc..etc..

              ..they are just promising more of the fucken same..

              ..you can’t see that..?

              ..we should all clap n unison for the hope of a clark yrs reprise…?

              ..r u kidding me..?

              ..u can’t see this as the cause for the collapse in support..?

              ..we do have memories slightly longer than goldfish..

              ..and show me anyone who just wants that reprise of the clark yrs..

              …it’s the same faces..offering the same stuff..and saying ‘trust us..!..again..!..’..

              ..u seriously can’t see that..?

              ..and b clear..were they rolling out policies such as above..i wd b cheering them thru the rafters..

              ..but they ain’t..and i won’t…until they do..

              ..it’s called agitating for change..real change..

        • Puckish Rogue 3.2.1.2
          18 July 2014 at 8:45 am

          It’s a shame the right has nothing to campaign on but negativity

          Really?

          Off the top of my head Labour has gone about the:

          boat building crisis
          manufacturing crisis
          housing crisis
          social-housing crisis
          forestry crisis
          immigration crisis (too many kiwis leaving)
          immigration crisis (too many people arriving)
          marine industry crisis

          Because thats positive

          • framu 3.2.1.2.1
            18 July 2014 at 10:12 am

            yeah – you need to show the positivity from the right to make your argument work

            “were not as bad as you” doesnt make something a positive (irrespective of validity of initial claim)

          • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.2.2
            18 July 2014 at 11:11 am

            Ah, no, those crisis are all the result of National’s policies. Admittedly, policies originally brought in by the 4th Labour government.

            You’ll also note that National are the truly negative party with their outright attacks upon the opposition and no policies.

        • Blue 3.2.1.3
          19 July 2014 at 6:36 am

          But Karol even offering “nothing” is polling better than the “something” Labour has proposed. Doesn’t that concern you that there is no resonance with the policies you espouse, despite in your opinion s lack of opposing policies to measure term against. Perhaps, like let’s say in a democracy, people don’t agree with these ” policies”. You might think they’re just peachy which is your right. Clearly most others don’t agree , which is their right.

    • just saying 3.3
      18 July 2014 at 9:26 am

      I think Cunliffe and the team are on the brink of announcing major new policy about letter-boxes.
      And I understand caucus and its advisors have been working around the clock and is almost ready to unleash exciting new policy on toothbrushes.

      • Molly 3.3.1
        18 July 2014 at 10:10 am

        National however is rolling out definitive and innovative new policies on…

        …oh look! a photo of John Key with a lei!

        • just saying 3.3.1.1
          18 July 2014 at 10:25 am

          I know. But I expect National to support a status quo that advantages the already advantaged.
          Can’t seem to stop expecting something significantly different and better from Labour. Hence the bitter diappointment.

          (If Key announced a letterbox policy it would be lauded as a significant innovation).

  4. phillip ure 4
    18 July 2014 at 7:06 am

    woo-bloody-hoo..!

    ..last nite at a meeting of internetty-people..

    ..i heard for the first time about googles’ page-ranking…

    ..which evaluates websites in a global-ranking between one to ten..

    ..(a super-ranking..if you will..)

    ..(ie..facebook is a nine..)

    ..and looking locally…the standard is a six..which is very very good…

    ..only pipped by kiwiblog…which is a seven..(‘boo..!’..)

    ..both whaleoil and the daily blog…are at five..which is also very very good…

    ..and whoar..?…whoar is also at five..(woo-bloody-hoo..!..eh..?..)

    ..as the internetty-people looked at me nodding their heads in unison as they said..’that is very very good..!’..

    ..i felt a definite lifting of spirits..a ‘high’ even…

    ..and i have achieved this ranking despite no social-media action..no seo-tweaking on my part..

    ..and that makes where i am now..even sweeter…

    ..(but as i said to those internetty-people last nite..’ok..but why am i still poor..?’..)

    • James 4.1
      18 July 2014 at 11:25 am

      Sorry Phil – it is not a global ranking. Your score (which is worked for BTW) – is primarily because of all the linking back from other sites considered relevant (Kiwiblog and the Standard).

      Here is some reading if you are interested: http://www.webworkshop.net/pagerank.html

      So in effect you are crowing about something that is useless (at the moment) for how you are driving your site.

      BUT – despite me not agreeing with anything you write (or your language skills for that matter) – you have earned the page rank by working / linking / posting etc.

      It gives you a base to work from. so congratulations on that. I would recommend some reading on PR, QS, and SEO in order to further improve what you are trying to achieve.

      Useless info – did you know Page rank is not named after “ranking the page”, but is named after Larry Page?

      • phillip ure 4.1.1
        18 July 2014 at 1:19 pm

        that’s funny..!

        ..kiwiblog..and the standard..linking back to me..?

        ..that’ll be a cold day in hell..

        ..where did you pluck that one from..?

        ..and really..i wd rather take the word/opinion of the people i was with last nite..their credibility/areas of work speak for themselves..

        ..their ‘very very good’ outweighs yr sneer..

        ..and hey..!..there are over 20,000 other websites around the world that have me/whoar on their best-blog list..

        ..how wd you explain away/denigrate that one..?

        ..and yes..i did know it was named after larry page…

        ..i learnt that also last nite..

        • James 4.1.1.1
          18 July 2014 at 1:41 pm

          Sorry – It seems that your view of people who disagree with you poisons you a little.

          I wasnt actually sneering in the slightest. If you read I was actually being congulatory and acknowledging that you have started building up a page – and that this was from your hard work.

          If you search kiwiblog etc you will find your website mentioned many, many times – indeed not a link, but the upshot is whoar.co.nz is mentioned in your post on websites that are recognised as “quality content” (subjective I know) for when people are searching for political info in NZ. Also they are “high traffic” – which again increases their google quality index.

          I play in this sandpit – with a very high level of success. What you are doing is right as a basis for moving forward – and I gave a polite idea on other ideas that you can continue to learn in order to become more successful.

          So no denigrating or sneering from me. I know its hard to build up. So – dont be a hater – it dosnt make you happy.

  5. Te Reo Putake 5
    18 July 2014 at 7:53 am

    Israel has celebrated the end of the truce by killing some more kids and beginning a ground invasion. Shits.

    • karol 5.1
      18 July 2014 at 8:09 am

      Cynical: while the world is focused on the Ukraine!

      • Te Reo Putake 5.1.1
        18 July 2014 at 8:12 am

        Exactly! Never let a good crisis go unexploited.

        • phillip ure 5.1.1.1
          18 July 2014 at 8:16 am

          they have heralded this over recent days..

          ..with a corresponding build-up of troops on the border..

          ..but yes..it does suit them…

          ..but unless they have e.s.p..

          ..i don’t think this plane-shooting down is why they are invading now.

          ..this is what they had planned all along..

          • bad12 5.1.1.1.1
            18 July 2014 at 8:58 am

            i find it extremely difficult to dredge up any sympathy for Hamas in this conflict, having fired hundreds of largely ineffective rockets into Israel the only response that they could expect is for the Israeli’s to send in their army to attempt to crush the Hamas ability to fire such ordinance across the border,

            Perhaps Hamas think that Israel will pack up lock stock and smoking guns for a destination other than the stolen Palestinian lands,

            At some point in time Hamas will get hold of some of the really sophisticated big bangs being produced by both Syria and Iran and the playing field will be somewhat leveled giving Hamas the ability to total cities inside Israel and leaving Israel with the same problem it has after the Israeli army was mauled in the Lebanon,

            It also has an even bigger problem only now in its genesis, should the rouge state that the ISIS rebels are trying to carve out of pieces of both Iraq and Syria become a reality Israel is in danger of being over-run at some point in the future…

        • Gosman 5.1.1.2
          18 July 2014 at 9:20 am

          Unlikely. An offensive ground based military operation requires an awful lot of preparation. It is not something that is launched at a drop of a hat to take advantage of some other event. Unless you are stating the Israelis are responsible for shooting down the airliner. I am sure some wacky conspiracy theorists will claim that shortly.

          • Zorr 5.1.1.2.1
            18 July 2014 at 9:34 am

            He was never claiming that. Merely saying that, for Israel, it is fortuitous timing that they can launch their offensive at the same time as this other tragedy.

          • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.2.2
            18 July 2014 at 1:28 pm

            Unlikely. An offensive ground based military operation requires an awful lot of preparation. It is not something that is launched at a drop of a hat to take advantage of some other event.

            Uh, Israel has been planning the details for weeks and has had plans drawn up in the filing cabinet ready to roll for years

          • Murray Olsen 5.1.1.2.3
            19 July 2014 at 12:39 am

            It might take the Americans six months to prepare an invasion of Granada, but Israel is always at a high state of readiness and prides itself on being able to launch operations at short notice. Since Gaza is almost defenceless, with no army, navy, or air force, they can probably invade within 12 hours. Still, I doubt if they made the decision after the airliner went down.

    • Ad 5.2
      18 July 2014 at 8:43 am

      So to be up front I am generally an Israel supporter.
      But I’d have thought the had made their point by now.
      They are acting like assholes.

      • Harriet 5.2.1
        18 July 2014 at 8:56 am

        Israel will occupy the West Bank like Macarther occupied Japan.

        They’re in for the long haul as no one else can give the place security from Hamas and other terror organisations.

        Go the Israelies.

        • freedom 5.2.1.1
          18 July 2014 at 9:02 am

          you are openly supporting genocide?
          http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/16/371556/israel-must-kill-all-palestinian-mothers/

          Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.

          • Gosman 5.2.1.1.1
            18 July 2014 at 9:15 am

            Calling genocide is like crying wolf. When it really happens noone will be willing to do anything about it (e.g. Rwanda). The situation in Gaza is not genocide. If the Israelis were really interested in wiping out the population they would use the same sort of ordinance that the Syrian regime drops on rebel controlled areas.

            • freedom 5.2.1.1.1.1
              18 July 2014 at 10:19 am

              In a week or so Gosman when the death toll in Palestine passes 2000, 20,000, 200,000 will you still defend Israel?

              The intent is what makes it genocide not the fucking bodycount.

              How black is the heart that takes light from shadows.

              • Gosman …
                18 July 2014 at 11:10 am

                And I’m pointing out that if there was actual intent the Israelis would be using much more lethal weapons to achieve their aims. In your views why are they not using more deadly weapons?

                • freedom …
                  18 July 2014 at 11:21 am

                  Because incremental assassination of the populace is more easily managed on the International stage and Israel have been firing from the grassy knoll for decades.

                  • Gosman …
                    18 July 2014 at 11:27 am

                    Apparently not if you and others are crying Genocide.

                    Also as a genocidal policy it isn’t very effective. These sorts of tactics have been carried out by the Israeli military fro decades yet the Palestinian population hasn’t diminished during this time.

        • Tiger Mountain 5.2.1.2
          18 July 2014 at 9:45 am

          The various apologists, doubters and hairsplitters here posting support for the dirty filthy Israeli military, should however unlikely, try and grow some human decency.

          • Gosman 5.2.1.2.1
            18 July 2014 at 9:57 am

            Won’t someone please think of the little children.

            • Weepus beard 5.2.1.2.1.1
              18 July 2014 at 11:24 am

              That’s a ugly comment, Gosman, and highlights your lack of empathy. You know full well children are suffering.

              • Gosman …
                18 July 2014 at 11:56 am

                My point is by using emotional language and labelling anyone who dares to not agree with your point of view you effectively shut down any ability to sensibly debate and discuss options around the subject. Noone is downplaying any deaths or suffereing of any people here (innocent or otherwise). I am quite sure the Israelis think they are protecting their own innocent children via their actions though.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  18 July 2014 at 1:59 pm

                  I am quite sure the Israelis think they are protecting their own innocent children via their actions though.

                  Please explain how killing 4 young children on Gaza beach furthers that aim.

                • Weepus beard …
                  18 July 2014 at 5:18 pm

                  Please. Israel has done nothing but protect their own children by way of 60 years of settlement expansion, at the expense of the second class citizens’ children in that country, Palestinian children.

                  They can’t even vote…

                  If we exclude Gaza, one in every 4.5 people living under Israeli rule doesn’t have the right to vote in the coming elections; that one person is (almost) always Palestinian. If Gaza is included, it’s one in three who is not represented.

                  – By Noam Sheizaf |Published October 30, 2012

                  http://972mag.com/who-gets-to-vote-in-israels-democracy/58756/

                  Apartheid, or not?

            • Daveosaurus 5.2.1.2.1.2
              18 July 2014 at 6:58 pm

              Which little children? The little children the Israelis murdered for the crime of playing soccer on a beach, maybe?

          • bad12 5.2.1.2.2
            18 July 2014 at 10:05 am

            And when Hamas get their hands on some more sophisticated rockets and begin to smash up Israeli cities with them will you go Wah Wah Wah about the death of Israeli civilians,

            Hamas firing of 100s of largely useless homemade rockets into Israel directly provoked this invasion…

            • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.2.2.1
              18 July 2014 at 1:31 pm

              Get your timeline right. Israel used the kidnapping and deaths of those Israeli teenagers as the pretext to launch these full scale military ops.

              The deaths of those teenagers should have been dealt with as a CRIMINAL matter, not as a matter for collective responsibility via military assault.

        • Molly 5.2.1.3
          18 July 2014 at 10:14 am

          You have watched too much FIFA in the last couple of weeks Harriet.

          You have the rhythm and semantics of a football supporter in the throes of World Cup fever.

          Take your misplaced cheerleading to another sport, until your fevered brain allows you to comment articulately.

          This situation deserves more scrutiny and discussion than what you have offered.

        • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.4
          18 July 2014 at 1:29 pm

          They’re in for the long haul as no one else can give the place security from Hamas and other terror organisations.

          Cluetip:

          When you’re the one who has caused over 200 civilian deaths through naval bombardment, drone strikes, shelling, and airstrikes, including 4 young boys playing on the beach yesterday, YOU are the terror organisation.

        • Rosie 5.2.1.5
          18 July 2014 at 3:28 pm

          Harrier Jump Jet, you are a very disturbed individual to be making such comments. Your pom pom cheerleading of the Israeli Defence Force, who have brought so much death, pain and suffering to innocent people is incredibly sickening.

          I sense though, seeing this is very similar to a comment you made on karol’s post, that you could be intentionally trying to wind people up. Such misery is not a game.

          • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.5.1
            19 July 2014 at 5:51 am

            Or part of the organised Israeli Govt social media campaign, as was featured in the Jerusalem Post a couple of days ago.

      • Gosman 5.2.2
        18 July 2014 at 9:00 am

        Quite possibly. This intervention on the ground looks imilar to their last invasion of the Gaza strip. They are unlikely to achieve anything long term.

  6. Zorr 6
    18 July 2014 at 9:01 am

    One of the more powerful things I’ve read this week:
    http://publicaddress.net/speaker/not-even-a-statistic/

    And this is why it is necessary to speak up. Because this can’t go on and, as a society, we need to change. What use is fixing anything if we can, collectively, still fail at providing the most basic of securities to over half the population (including children here)?

  7. Gosman 7
    18 July 2014 at 9:10 am

    I note Winston is wanting an enquiry in to the running of Kiwi Rail. Seems to me to be a good reason for the State not owning a commercial enterprise.

    • deep throat 7.1
      18 July 2014 at 9:26 am

      piffle.
      it is just an example of national party cronies out of their depth.
      everytime kiwirail has passed into private hands it has been looted and handed back.
      this time it is just ineptitude from national party appointees.

      • Gosman 7.1.1
        18 July 2014 at 9:41 am

        Do you have evidence that the people running Kiwi Rail have liks to the National Party?

        Interestingly even if you did that would be another reason why the State should not run comercial enterprises because they can stack the board and management with political appointees.

        • bad12 7.1.1.1
          18 July 2014 at 10:00 am

          Seems to me Gosman that like all ‘wing-nuts’ you just cannot help but dribble shit, here’s a taste of a few of the private ferry operator Bluebridges recent woes,

          11 Feb 2013–The troubled Bluebridge ferry stuck in Wellington with engine problems may be out of action for a while,

          http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/…/336738767-troubled-bluebridge-ferry-could-be-out-a-while

          7 March 2013–Bluebridges 28 year old Santa Regina is one of three Cook Strait ferries to experience mechanical problems this week,

          maritime-connections.com/…/three-cook-strait-ferries-hit-by-mechanical-problems/

          29 November 2013–Bluebridge ferry Santa Regina misses sailings with mechanical problems,

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominionpost/news/…/more-woes-for-cook-strait-ferries

          31 Jnauary 2014–Mechanical problems meant Blubridge ferry Santa Regina was two and a half hours late sailing from Wellington this morning,

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/9671438/bluebridge-ferry-delayed

          3 April 2014–The Bluebridge ferry has experienced overnight engine problems,

          article.wn.com/view/2014/04/03/engine_problems_hamper_ferry/

          Shall i dig you up the 2012 mechanical problems/cancellations for the privately owned Bluebridge ferry services Gosman…

          • Gosman 7.1.1.1.1
            18 July 2014 at 11:05 am

            What is the reason Winston Peters is not calling for an enquiry in to these problems?

            • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.1.1.1
              18 July 2014 at 11:53 am

              Because it’s a private enterprise and so it’s running and inevitable collapse is of no public concern. Whereas the railways, being a natural monopoly, essential infrastructure and run by the state, is,

              • Gosman …
                18 July 2014 at 12:05 pm

                A ferry service is not a natural monopoly though is it DTB?

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  18 July 2014 at 1:17 pm

                  Yes, it is because it’s all part of the same infrastructure. We used to understand that. Well, our politicians did and they knew that a state monopoly of infrastructure is the most efficient and cost effective means of supplying that service. Then they got bitten by the neo-liberal bug and privatised everything pushing prices up and services down.

                  • Gosmen …
                    18 July 2014 at 1:42 pm

                    How is it the same infrastucture given that Bluebridge has a separte terminal (at least in Wellington)?

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      18 July 2014 at 2:18 pm

                      Did you see the bit where I said part of the same infrastructure?

                      It’s just another part of the transportation network.

                    • Gosman …
                      18 July 2014 at 3:25 pm

                      Then so is any enterprise that uses not just shipping terminals but roads and airports as well. I presume you think all of those are natural monopolies as well do you? Would be interesting to see how taxis would work if you do.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      18 July 2014 at 4:09 pm

                      Nope, only where having more than one operator is an increase in costs with no added benefits.

                    • Gosman …
                      18 July 2014 at 4:22 pm

                      Who determines if there is no added benefit of additional players? You and your army of bureaucrats I presume?

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      18 July 2014 at 5:23 pm

                      How about a B/C study?

                      You know something, we’ve never actually done one on the privatisations – just gone with the ideology.

                      How much it should cost to get broadband into every home in the country? Shouldn’t take long for you to find out as it’s a regulated price.

            • bad12 7.1.1.1.1.2
              18 July 2014 at 12:04 pm

              What is the reason that to all extents and purposes you are a functional dunce Gosman, Peter’s is grandstanding, looking for publicity from political points scoring,

              What you do not know, and i do, probably because my old man was an AB on those ships, is that the ferries have been hitting the wharves at Aotea Quay and the Picton terminal with monotonous regularity since they first came into service,

              It is only in the age of the ‘smart-phone’ that such occurrence are more likely than not to receive publicity,

              The Aotea Quay wharf used by NZRail to berth its ferries is wide open to both the Northerly and Southerly gales that are a regular feature of Wellingtons weather,having to reverse into such berths mean that in such gales the chances of being blown into the wharf are greatly enhanced,

              The ‘stretching’ of the Aratere by some 12 meters has turned that ship into a lemon as the insert allows for the ferry to flex in rough conditions more than the original design allowed for,

              The private operator Bluebridge’s problem is of another nature, their ferry Santa Regina is 30 odd years old and just about ready for the scrap yard,

              The danger of running these old and ill designed ships is that they will experience a significant engine failure, fully laden, in rough weather coming through the Wellington heads,

              What is needed is a significant investment in this part of State Highway One with the building of some new ferries preferably here in New Zealand which would create 1000s of jobs and train 1000s of young workers in skills that are always in demand…

              • Draco T Bastard …
                18 July 2014 at 1:20 pm

                What is needed is a significant investment in this part of State Highway One with the building of some new ferries preferably here in New Zealand which would create 1000s of jobs and train 1000s of young workers in skills that are always in demand…

                As much as I agree with you that those ferries should be build in NZ by NZers I doubt if doing so would produce more than a couple of hundred jobs.

        • deep throat 7.1.1.2
          18 July 2014 at 10:23 am

          no only the national party does that.
          they need the patronage and its their style to rely on nepotism rather than merit.

          • Gosman 7.1.1.2.1
            18 July 2014 at 11:07 am

            That may very well be accurate. However the problem is that the National party gets in to office around half the time so has plenty of opportunity of placing their cronies in to positions of power in these organisations. The obvious solution to this is to not have the government being able to appoint their cronies in the first place.

    • adam 7.2
      18 July 2014 at 11:34 am

      The state should have no role in running Kiwi rail, nor should it be run by commercial interest either. Both have a shocking track record and both have trampled over the labour force in the industry. It seems to me, the only solution left, is a worker lead industry producing a rail system which works for the whole country. Otherwise were going to keep rolling on and on with this stupid system we currently have which is obviously not working for anyone.

      • Gosman 7.2.1
        18 July 2014 at 12:13 pm

        I have no problem if a worker owned collective bought the assets of KiwiRail and ran it. Just don’t expect Government funding to keep it operating.

  8. phillip ure 8
    18 July 2014 at 10:03 am

    cool..!..kim dotcom is to launch a private prosecution over his being spied on…

    • bad12 8.1
      18 July 2014 at 10:16 am

      Pity the other 87 New Zealand citizens who were also illegally spied upon have been refused the courtesy of also prosecuting those who behaved illegally toward them by the Governments refusal to inform those people that they had been the target of such illegality…

      • bad12 8.1.1
        18 July 2014 at 10:47 am

        As a footnote: Perhaps Kim DotCom might like to consider widening His legal action against the illegally spying Government agencies into a class action suit covering all the 88 odd New Zealand citizens illegally spied upon,

        In such an action the right of ‘discovery’ might reveal to those who were spied upon the fact that they were…

        • Gosman 8.1.1.1
          18 July 2014 at 11:31 am

          Does the NZ justice system allow class action suits?

          • bad12 8.1.1.1.1
            18 July 2014 at 12:08 pm

            Does the New Zealand education system turn out functional idiots??? apparently so if you are anything to measure it by Gosman…

            • Gosman 8.1.1.1.1.1
              18 July 2014 at 12:18 pm

              Anything actually useful to add or is just an ad-hominem attack because you are feeling a little down today?

              • bad12 …
                18 July 2014 at 4:28 pm

                No Gosman, just pointing out your apparently inferior education or lack of actual ability to be educated,

                Hint: i aint here as your on call fucking research department, if you want to ask twenty question and expect an answer then i suggest you fuck off and ask those questions of Google like normal people do…

    • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2
      18 July 2014 at 10:53 am

      “Seriously considering…”

    • James 8.3
      18 July 2014 at 11:18 am

      You (again) are reading into this what you want.

      He said he was “seriously considering”

      https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/489619734757797889

      Not to be taken for granted as happening as per your post.

      Like he was considering sponsoring Team New Zealand, and pitting in another internet pipe to NZ.

      both “considered” and nothing happened.

  9. fambo 9
    18 July 2014 at 10:27 am

    Anyone interested in the culture of North American Indians will find this interview with Bryan Crump on Nights at Radio New Zealand last night awesome.

    “Mixed blood Cherokee map-maker Aaron Carapella has created what appears to be the first map showing the names and locations of Native American tribes before Europeans set foot on the North American continent”

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/20142107

  10. greywarbler 10
    18 July 2014 at 10:43 am

    Air New Zealand is making its grabaseat special site customer unfriendly for people wanting to travel within NZ. There are nice informative windows for overseas but for NZ there is just a great mass of destinations run together, not even in a list form with some sort of alphabetic order. So I can’t run my eye down to see what is available.

    They said they were doing an $8 flight thing and have 1143 – they say available but don’t count on it as they don’t change their available figures on the main list fast. Perhaps the cheap ones have all gone but no way at all of seeing what the status is.

    But I have to start a booking before I am told what the price is.not the other way round. So I have made a tentative search with a trial booking and can’t find sign of anything special,not grabaseat price or $8. What a waste of time and smoke and mirrors. I am losing respect for Air NZ. Bring back Rod Fyfe, his stewardship of the airline led to good outcomes for Kiwis travelling within the country.

  11. Puckish Rogue 11
    18 July 2014 at 10:53 am

    The problem that Labour have now is one of momentum, its now almost a like a sport to see just how low Labour can fall in the polls. Will Labour break the 20% barrier? Who knows but the msm will be pushing it and people will be interested in seeing it happen and so will try to make it happen.

    On the plus side its good for the Greens

    • Bearded Git 11.1
      18 July 2014 at 12:49 pm

      Puckish-see jackals post today on IMP meetings. 22/20/7 gets a left wing government. You can choose who the 22/20 are!

      But we may be seeing a Green Revolution developing at this election. Wouldn’t that give NZ some fantastic press across the world.

      • Puckish Rogue 11.1.1
        18 July 2014 at 2:46 pm

        Its good to think positively, you think Dover Samuels thinks the same?

    • karol 12.1
      18 July 2014 at 11:06 am

      Yes. The most “with restraint” McCully approach to diversion through boring everyone.

  13. Morrissey 13
    18 July 2014 at 11:04 am

    Will the Australian government bar Obama from the G8?
    (Because of his actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen and Gaza.)
    Radio NZ National, 9:30 a.m., Friday 18 July 2014

    In August 1968, the U.S.-led propaganda machine went into catatonic overdrive when the USSR sent tanks and troops into Czechoslovakia in order to bring a halt to Alexander Dubček’s program of political liberalisation. Many observers, of course, noted that the last regime in the world that was entitled to denounce a country for invading another was the United States. In 1968 the United States had more than half a million troops perpetrating the murderous destruction of Vietnam, and in a few years it would go on to attack and destroy Laos and Cambodia, perhaps irreparably. The United States was also the major backer of the blood-soaked Suharto dictatorship in Indonesia, as well as other gruesome regimes in Pakistan, Burma, Spain, Portugal, Israel, South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Haiti, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Nicaragua and Venezuela.

    The Russian invasion of Czechoslovakia killed one hundred and eight people in total. Five months earlier, U.S. troops killed more than four times that number in a typical raid—this one was on two hamlets in Quảng Ngãi province in Vietnam. The hamlets were named My Khe and My Lai. The killings were nothing out of the ordinary; American troops did this so regularly that this particular massacre wasn’t even reported until more than a year later.

    Over the years, the hypocrisy has never let up, not for a second. Uncle Sam still finds time to mount the pulpit, up to his knees in blood, and denounce others for doing what he himself has done, and continues to do, on a far greater scale.

    It would be a lot harder for such vicious regimes to get away with it if people were more informed. To keep them uninformed, and stupid, and posting to Kiwiblog, and hosting radio talkback shows, it’s important to get the media on board. The best way to do this is to get “reporters” to repeat official blather, and routinely express “concern” at the “behavior” of official enemies, while studiously, diplomatically, putting aside such obvious and troublesome quibbles as: “What about what WE are doing?” There will always be troublemaking reporters, real reporters, of course, outriders like Jon Stephenson, Seymour Hersh, Julian Assange, and Matt Lee, but they can be easily sidelined when you have the vast majority of “reporters” on message, and able to suppress the urge to laugh at the absurdity, or screech at the obscenity, of the charade they are asked to perform.

    On Radio NZ National this morning, there was a perfect example of this carefully cultivated blindness. A Malaysian Airlines passenger jet has been shot down in the Eastern Ukraine. It looks like there was possibly some Russian involvement. It looks like a significant number of the victims were Australians. To discuss this grave incident, Nine to Noon host Kathryn Ryan interviewed one Karen Middleton, of SBS. After some talk about the terrible event itself, Middleton moved from reporter to propagandist with sinister smoothness. She noted that Australia is due to host the G8 summit later this year, but that “there have been calls” to not invite Vladimir Putin “because of Russia’s actions in the Ukraine.”

    She did not mention any calls to not invite Barack Obama or David Cameron, because of the actions of the United States and its deputy in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen and Gaza.

    I am sure Kathryn Ryan thought exactly what I and virtually everyone else was thinking when she heard that: what cant, what exquisite hypocrisy, what specious, sanctimonious nonsense. But she stifled any qualms she might have had, and said nothing. The nasty little provocation was allowed to lie there, unchallenged. Even in the midst of an awful event like this, the propaganda barrage never stops. And, almost without exception, our media representatives, instead of challenging them, cooperate with the propagandists and serve as their megaphone.

    • Draco T Bastard 13.1
      18 July 2014 at 12:24 pm

      +111

    • TeWhareWhero 13.2
      18 July 2014 at 3:58 pm

      I was also interested in both the statement and Ryan’s failure to challenge it.

      The experts / propagandists are being trundled out by the Americans to establish a case against Russia and /or the pro-Russian rebels even though we don’t yet know for certain how the plane was brought down and, if it was by means of a sophisticated ground to air missile, it could have been fired from areas of Ukraine not under rebel control.

      We do know that 295 civilians died which is tragic and an eerily similar number to the 290 who died when an American aircraft carrier shot down an Iranian commercial aircraft in 1988. They claimed it was an accident and as I recall no-one really questioned that much except the Iranians – and George Bush Snr gave the captain of the carrier involved an award 2 years later for his exemplary service.

      It may be the pro-Russian rebels had acquired a sophisticated air to ground missile and the technical knowledge to launch it – although it’s hard to see how they (or the Russians) would think that shooting down an unidentified plane was going to do their cause anything other than great harm. As to the alleged phone conversation ‘confirming’ rebel involvement, how stupid would you have to be to think that a huge jet plane flying at 30,000 feet was bringing spies to the region?

      It may of course be a dirty op – and you’d have to be a very ill-informed or ideologically blinkered person to deny the existence of loads of them or to deny the fact that the perpetrators of them wouldn’t give a damn about killing 300 innocents.

  14. greywarbler 14
    18 July 2014 at 11:07 am

    An idea that could be useful. A campaign throughout NZ by those wanting to get our democracy working.

    Each day ask at least one new person ‘Are you a Sleeping Beauty?’ They will be puzzled and either reject the question as odd or irrelevant or ask for information. The answer would be ‘A Sleeping Beauty is a dreaming NZer who won’t vote in the September election.”
    (If they did not reply it would not matter as they would have heard it and if it could go viral, then they hear other people discussing it, and there will have been a breakthrough in the ‘ignoring the election and our democracy’ wall of shame.)

    This would just put the thought into people’s minds, become aware and could be done with anyone except people in authority over you, and those men who are so gender sensitive they might punch you in the nose.

    If someone could put that idea up on Facebook it would get around fast, great consciousness raising, with a quirk to make it intriguing. It could mean that everyone in NZ would have heard the question, or about it, before the election.
    Anyone up for making a positive personal difference as they circulate round the rohe!

    • Gosman 14.1
      18 July 2014 at 11:17 am

      Why don’t YOU start this thing off then? Create that FB page and start building the groundswell for the campaign. I personally don’t think it will be particulaly effective but good on you if you give it a go.

      • greywarbler 14.1.1
        18 July 2014 at 1:33 pm

        Thanks Gosman. Why don’t you give it a go? You have lots of time to sit and contribute critiques to the discourse and it would be good for you to practice your tech skills. I have lots of things that I absolutely must do. And little time to acquire the Facebook skills. You could put your time to something useful except negative stuff.

        Or is it like typical NZ – no-one has an idea then someone brings one up, everyone else likes it and appoints the thinker to carry it out. Or it is damned with faint praise as you have done. Wishy-washy NZ. ‘Oh I don’t knoooww if that would work. Let’s sit around and do nothing and gossip. Oh well time to go home, see you tomorrow.’

        Real red hen stuff. (This does not apply to all persons
        involved with The Standard.)

        I do so have permission to edit this comment.
        Edited version.

        • deep throat 14.1.1.1
          18 July 2014 at 1:52 pm

          gosamn is a paid moaner for the national party.
          as far as I can recall he has never made a constructive contribution here or anywhere else for that matter.

    • James 14.2
      18 July 2014 at 1:45 pm

      “Each day ask at least one new person ‘Are you a Sleeping Beauty?’”

      Yep – I cannot imaging anyone taking the mickey out of that at all.

      Labour should run with it. Pure Genius!

  15. greywarbler 15
    18 July 2014 at 11:17 am

    Hello, I have 3 minutes to go but was not allowed to edit again my last comment.
    I realise that I am being wishy washy.

    Saying an idea that could be useful. How wet.
    It is a great idea that would have big positive outcomes for small input. Like throwing a stone in a pond and the ripples spread in rings around – and each new action likewise.

  16. Draco T Bastard 16
    18 July 2014 at 11:20 am

    Companies complain that they can’t find skilled hires, but they aren’t doing much to impart those skills, economists and workforce experts say. U.S. companies have been cutting money for training programs for decades, expecting schools and workers to pick up the slack. Economists say that reluctance to develop workers in-house has made it hard for workers to launch or sustain careers, resulting in a stalemate in the labor market: Companies won’t look at job candidates who lack a specific skill set, so openings go unfilled even as millions linger on the unemployment rolls.

    Sounds remarkably like what we have in NZ. Companies complaining about the lack of skills but are unwilling to actually do anything about it.

  17. Bob 17
    18 July 2014 at 12:23 pm

    In light of Zetetic’s post this morning, I thought this article is quite apt http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/opinion/10264045/Bias-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder

    • mickysavage 17.1
      18 July 2014 at 9:54 pm

      No it is not. It is based on a false premise that media views are centralist and left and right views are on either side of reality.

    • karol 17.2
      18 July 2014 at 9:59 pm

      Media bias in the eye of the beholder? – including the eye of the people saying it’s in the beholder’s eye?

  18. Bearded Git 18
    18 July 2014 at 12:24 pm

    Great post by the Jackal today. National with a small meeting in what appears to be a rest home in Wanaka while IMP are filling halls in the North. Even some young people present.

    Watch IMP in the polls!

    http://thejackalman.blogspot.com/2014/07/a-tale-of-two-meetings.html

    • Tiger Mountain 18.1
      18 July 2014 at 2:09 pm

      Be interesting to see the numbers at West Auckland IMP Road Trip meeting on Sunday, 2pm, Kelston Community Centre top of Waikumete hill.

      The Northland meetings were good turnouts being in the storm aftermath. The thing with these Internet Mana events is the people there are active locally or at the very least interested. Public meetings can be useful organisers as Winston knows.

      • Bearded Git 18.1.1
        18 July 2014 at 2:35 pm

        +1 Tiger. Winston came to my mind when I saw the pictures of the meetings.

      • Colonial Viper 18.1.2
        18 July 2014 at 10:08 pm

        TM – precisely. It is only outside of Harawira’s electorate and even down into the Waikato and BoP that we are going to really get a feel for how much momentum IMP actually has.

        They’re getting there, but they do not have the big Mo yet.

  19. greywarbler 19
    18 July 2014 at 1:41 pm

    This thread is a Gosman sandwich. Trouble is it’s our fingers and ideas being bitten off in Gosman’s mouth and other RWNJ peculiar gourmands.

    You do have all day to spend here Gosman so please do go on Facebook and put up my suggestion. I really have to go and do some real work instead of just thinking and worrying about getting a better world so that you can come along and pass some superior judgment on it as being a waste of time.

  20. Draco T Bastard 20
    18 July 2014 at 2:23 pm

    Slow progress made on wagon repairs

    The work was being completed under warranty, but Rail and Maritime Transport Union general secretary Wayne Butson yesterday said that was ”a false economy”.

    ”Without transparency of costs, it is hard to see whether the warranty work does, in reality, come at no cost.

    ”Is the loss of revenue while these wagons are out of service being taken into account? Is the involvement of KiwiRail staff supervising the Chinese workers being realised? ”When all costs are totalled, the result will support the RMTU and our members’ views that the new wagons should have been built at Hillside.”

    The BERL report on why they should have been built in New Zealand said that we’d get higher quality from Hillside and now it seems that they were correct.

    • Colonial Viper 20.1
      18 July 2014 at 7:51 pm

      We didn’t need the BERL report, engineers and management at KiwiRail knew months ahead of product delivery that the rolling stock was going to be woefully substandard.

      A political decision pushed through by the Tories, the final win for the Tories being them closing down Hillside workshops irreversibly.

      • Draco T Bastard 20.1.1
        18 July 2014 at 10:05 pm

        We didn’t need the BERL report, engineers and management at KiwiRail knew months ahead of product delivery that the rolling stock was going to be woefully substandard.

        Probably because they read the BERL report before the order went out.

        A political decision pushed through by the Tories, the final win for the Tories being them closing down Hillside workshops irreversibly.

        Nothing is ever irreversible – it’ll just take a long time to set up again.

        We certainly do have to question why the Tories seem so hell bent on destroying NZ’s economy though.

        • Colonial Viper 20.1.1.1
          18 July 2014 at 10:12 pm

          Probably because they read the BERL report before the order went out.

          FFS mate, no fucking economic consultants report was needed to tell the Kiwi Rail engineers who have had to deal first hand with the shit gear manufactured out of China for years and years that this was going to be more of the same.

          That report was required to try and penetrate the muddle headed bureaucrats and media who had no idea and still have no idea.

          • srylands 20.1.1.1.1
            18 July 2014 at 10:41 pm

            It may come as news to you that we have a Free Trade Agreement with China. You can’t reverse that. Indeed there is no alternative to a rapid expansion of such agreements with East Asian countries. I would like to see the next one with Bangladesh. You are living in a 1970s bubble dream about New Zealand manufacturing. If cars can’t be made economically in Australia, how are we going to produce train sets? From memory the Hillside bid came in about sixth on price.

            The only way your world view will work is a return to protectionism. That is not happening.

            You would be much better advised to work with markets to advance the circumstances of the poor. Otherwise you are just pissing in the wind and irrelevant to modern life. Your ideas will simply never be implemented in New Zealand.

            • RedLogix 20.1.1.1.1.1
              18 July 2014 at 10:53 pm

              The sin of cheapness.

              • McFlock …
                18 July 2014 at 11:02 pm

                the idiocy of cheapness, too.
                A cheap tender for cabs that have fucking asbestos. 🙄

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  19 July 2014 at 1:05 am

                  Yep, people always try to get things that cost less money not realising that, one way or another, you still get to pay the full, real costs.

            • Draco T Bastard 20.1.1.1.1.2
              19 July 2014 at 1:04 am

              It may come as news to you that we have a Free Trade Agreement with China.

              A free trade agreement doesn’t mean that we have to buy from them. Willing buyer, willing seller and such.

              If cars can’t be made economically in Australia, how are we going to produce train sets?

              Cars can be made economically in Australia same as they can be made economically here. The problem you have, and it’s right across economics, is that you confuse finances with economics.

              The only way your world view will work is a return to protectionism.

              Nope – count full costs properly and trade between nations will end.

              You would be much better advised to work with markets to advance the circumstances of the poor.

              Markets only work to empower and enrich the already rich – as we’ve seen throughout history.

    • ianmac 21.1
      18 July 2014 at 4:07 pm

      What is it with the sub-editors or those who write the headers for the Herald.
      “NZ First’s shoot to kill law.”
      Sound pretty lethal. But Adam Bennett’s column just explains that NZF wants the laws regarding self-defence to be clarified. Farmers or dairy owners defending themselves. A good idea. Have written to Adam as such a misleading header detracts from the quality of his writing. Shame.
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11295250

    • ianmac 21.2
      18 July 2014 at 4:11 pm

      It is the misleading headers in the Herald that bug me: “Toby Manhire: Dotcom’s delayed bombshell looks like a fizzer.”
      Not what Toby says at all + the NZF I forgot to send this morning @21.1

  22. Puckish Rogue 22
    18 July 2014 at 2:57 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11295684

    • Hes a good man so it must be something pretty big for him to do this
    • Bearded Git 22.1
      18 July 2014 at 3:18 pm

      Don’t talk rubbish Pukish.

      If Samuels took the trouble to read what Cunliffe actually said, not what the MSM reported, you will see that in context it was a brave attempt to initiate a debate on the real problem of violence against women to which our shallow PM could only say this was a “silly” thing to say. Pathetic response.

      The highway north can be improved without spending the vast amounts proposed by National. The balance can be spent on things that are desperately needed in NZ like better public transport, smaller class sizes, paying off the $50 billion in debt incurred by this National government etc etc

      Notice also that he is not moving his vote to National.

      • Puckish Rogue 22.1.1
        18 July 2014 at 3:22 pm

        If Samuels took the trouble to read what Cunliffe actually said, not what the MSM reported, you will see that in context it was a brave attempt to initiate a debate on the real problem of violence against women to which our shallow PM could only say this was a “silly” thing to say. Pathetic response.

        • You sure he didn’t read it?
    • Draco T Bastard 22.2
      18 July 2014 at 4:06 pm

      No, it just sounds like he’s still back in the 1950s.

    • Murray Olsen 22.3
      19 July 2014 at 1:17 am

      Dover Samuels a good man? Good at looking after himself. At least as good as Shane Jones. Not quite so good at doing anything worthwhile for the people of Matauri Bay, let alone Te Tai Tokerau.

  24. Rosie 24
    18 July 2014 at 3:22 pm

    Note for Lynn.

    Each time I make a comment I need to fill in my name and email address. It’s been happening for a few days. Don’t know whether the problem is at my end or TS end.

    Cheers.

    • bad12 24.1
      18 July 2014 at 4:38 pm

      Lolz, it is giving me apoplexy, i mean how hard is it to learn to ‘look’ each time you make a comment, yet for the last few days despite telling myself how fucking stupid i am over and over i still keep not looking,

      Laughs, it got me a goody again this afternoon, straight after i logged onto the Standard i filled in the name and email thinking that will fix it,

      Browsed a couple of Posts and then made a comment, again forgetting to look, and the name and email had done the disappearo again….

  25. Puckish Rogue 25
    18 July 2014 at 3:55 pm

    Cunliffe just can’t catch a break:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/07/benefit_numbers_down_5.html

    • freedom 25.1
      18 July 2014 at 4:25 pm

      Please show us where they highlight those who have moved on from a benefit such as ‘Widow’s’ benefit or DPB or Long-Term Invalid’s benefit and are now receiving Superannuation? Whilst doing that would you be so kind to present any data available about those who have simply been removed from assistance with no other form of income. That might be difficult by the way as the government choose not to collect that data. It is a bit tougher to rah rah when reality is asked for isn’t it Puckish Rogue.

      Meanwhile here is a little indisputable fact. According to the Household Labour Force Survey, the preferred vehicle for National Government stats. Unemployment has increased by 42 thousand people since 2008. 105K in 2008 147K in 2014 http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/income-and-work/employment_and_unemployment/HouseholdLabourForceSurvey_HOTPMar14qtr.aspx
      http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/income-and-work/employment_and_unemployment/HouseholdLabourForceSurvey_HOTPDec08qtr-revised.aspx

    • Tiger Mountain 25.2
      18 July 2014 at 4:27 pm

      snap Freedom.
      The Household Labour force survey has in recent years consistently shown higher numbers of unemployed, looking for work and discouraged unemployed, not actively seeking work, than there are numbers on unemployment benefits. And no, they have not migrated to sickness benefits, let alone found stable jobs. Remember the benefit system has been collapsed down into nearly everyone being considered a ‘jobseeker’ regardless of circumstances, inclusive of the sick, some invalids and sole parents.

      The answer is;
      a) the two Paulas (Bennett and Rebstock) war on the poor which includes making WINZ effectively a difficult to negotiate sadistic process which people basically avoid if they can possibly do so. WINZ have their own designated doctors and more required meetings and useless seminars than you can imagine that require transport, a mobile phone, presentable clothing etc.
      b) a large slice of struggling lower mid socio level people drawing Keys “communism by stealth” in work tax credit aka WFF. If not for this Labour devised handout many more would be caught in the WINZ catch 22.

      So people end up in cars, garages, petty crime, begging, precarious employment and the ‘black’ economy. Lower benefit numbers mean diddly with all the social dislocation and strife in this country.

      • freedom 25.2.1
        18 July 2014 at 4:41 pm

        I would like to add by way of a small repost
        For those listening to and reporting on the latest employment statistics

        23 advertisements for the vacant position of a gumboot checker
        does not mean there are 23 vacant gumboot checker positions

    • McFlock 25.3
      18 July 2014 at 4:33 pm

      we’ll file with Treasury reporting on child poverty and police reporting on the burglary rate in Counties Manukau, shall we?

  26. deep throat 26
    18 July 2014 at 4:58 pm

    send a copy to vernon small too.

  27. marty mars 27
    18 July 2014 at 7:05 pm

    It shouldn’t happen but it does and the latest example of racial profiling is shocking.

    After police entered Stratford’s Whakaahurangi Marae on Saturday morning, the children, aged from 4 to 17, were made to get out of bed and lined up to show their hands so that police could look for evidence of an assault, marae spokeswoman Lovely Read said.

    She said the children were left shaken after rude and aggressive treatment from the police.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10280576/Swoop-on-marae-likened-to-Tuhoe-raids

    This was 2am in the morning btw. WTF is going on that these cases slime up every week or so. It is just not good enough not by a bloody long shot.

  28. marty mars 28
    18 July 2014 at 9:32 pm

    Amazing animation of a comet

    This little movie, made of 36 ‘smoothed’ or interpolated images of Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, takes it to the next level, showing the comet’s complex shape even more clearly as Rosetta nudges ever closer to its target. Some have likened it to a duck, a boot and even a baby’s foot.

    http://www.universetoday.com/113317/rosetta-zooms-toward-an-extraordinary-comet/#more-113317

    Such technical brilliance – mysteries revealed – a pity all of our brainpower couldn’t be used to stop war.

    • Colonial Viper 28.1
      18 July 2014 at 10:34 pm

      any effective drumbeat for war is typically led by a few hundred people at most, typically all members of the 0.1%.

  29. adam 29
    18 July 2014 at 10:17 pm

    http://www.fatherlyadviceandrants.com/orwell-vs-huxley.html

    Old but good. Never really thought of these two as either/or. More of a blending seemed closer to reality.

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