Open mike 18/08/2014

206 comments on “Open mike 18/08/2014 ”

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1. crocodill 1

   18 August 2014 at 6:44 am

   If ability was the deciding factor, the small but perfectly formed Metiria Turei and her slightly built co-leader would hold the next prime ministership of NZ.

   Over the weekend they catapulted themselves boldly into the political ring, aiming high and hitting hard with a welfare policy designed to address child poverty. The media took a solid left to the bread basket and exclaimed loudly, “Eeek, they want to tax the rich!”

   Meanwhile, tireless volunteers pressed the flesh, chewed the fat and handed out far too many red balloons at markets across Auckland – markets that ask quite a hefty fee from political parties.

   Supporting this effort, from a bunker I imagine is deep within a labyrinth of lava tunnels under Mt. Albert, the Labour leadership faxed in their welfare policy… for battery chickens.

   There is the growing suspicion from this observer that the metaphorical powder left over from a Labour leader who used a teaspoonful to take pot-shots at sickness beneficiaries, a powder that must be keep dry at all costs, isn’t black at all and they’ve begun to snort it.
2. Paul 2

   18 August 2014 at 6:56 am

   Lisa Owen
   Brilliant interview with Cameron Slater
   http://www.tv3.co.nz/tabid/3692/MCat/2910/Default.aspx
3. ScottGN 3

   18 August 2014 at 7:17 am

   Key is totally floundering on Morning Report.
   • Saarbo 3.1

     18 August 2014 at 7:19 am

     Guyon Esipiner is nailing John Key…a must listen too.
     • Lanthanide 3.1.1

       18 August 2014 at 7:22 am

       Yes. And this is why I think Guyon is a good interviewer.
       • TheContrarian 3.1.1.1

         18 August 2014 at 3:19 pm

         I’ve always liked Guyon.

         Apparently he writes poetry too.
   • coolas 3.2

     18 August 2014 at 8:58 am

     Yes, yes, yes .. a great start to the week. Key’s Crosby/Textor rehearsed lines sounding shallow and utterly insincere. Just the man he is. Well done Guyon. Hope others follow and grill the prick at every opportunity.
     • Kiwiri 3.2.1

       18 August 2014 at 9:01 am

       Wow. Guyon is doing his job this morning!
       I must buy a Lotto ticket today.

       p.s. Keith Ng may have something to say as the PM has just roped him into a false analogy?
4. tricledrown 4

   18 August 2014 at 7:26 am

   Guyon espiner on fire this morning Key put in his place!
5. Paul 5

   18 August 2014 at 7:31 am

   Suzie Ferguson trying to do Slater, Farrar and Key’s job.
   As Laila Harre said, amplifying his smears.
   RNZ – you are a public broadcaster.
   Remember that.
6. tricledrown 6

   18 August 2014 at 7:34 am

   Harre kept her cool
7. outofbed 7

   18 August 2014 at 7:39 am

   Fuck listen to this
   http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20146025/prime-minister-stands-by-minister-and-staff
   Key is fucked
   I never thought i would say this but Guyon was brilliant
   • Tracey 7.1

     18 August 2014 at 7:59 am

     well,well,well…
   • RedBaronCV 7.2

     18 August 2014 at 8:03 am

     Guyon “you’re not getting away with this” “answer the question” Great interview.
   • miravox 7.3

     18 August 2014 at 8:06 am

     I thought Key had given up drinking…..

     Well done Guyon, obviously the slimy ones have nothing on you. I very much appreciate you asking Key to account for his relationship with Slater and his acceptance of unethical actions of his staff.

     And what was that ‘…haven’t rehearsed…’ bit?
     • Rosie 7.3.1

       18 August 2014 at 9:02 am

       It sounded like he had a late night and was hungover. Quite slurry.
       • vto 7.3.1.1

         18 August 2014 at 9:06 am

         He goes slurry when he needs to quickly rush over something i.e. lie
         • One Anonymous Bloke 7.3.1.1.1

           18 August 2014 at 9:26 am

           Spot on vto. It’s transparent – a much bigger ‘tell’ than that hissing noise he makes.
           • Rosie 7.3.1.1.1.1

             18 August 2014 at 9:45 am

             I’ll listen out more carefully for the slurs. I’ve never heard them as bad as they were today.

             The sucking air through the teeth/hissing sound, prior to attempting to get out of a tight spot I am more familiar with. I had put the slurs down to tiredness. I guess lies get all mangled up in the mouth and come out in a slippery slurry mess.

             Bridges does something similar when he is lying and bending the the truth. His isn’t a slur though, it’s more like the words come out they have had a steam roller go over them. They squish out of his mouth as his conscience battles with telling a lie. Then they go a bit gravelly at the end, in an attempt to distort the lies further and to protect himself from further scrutiny.

             It is true that when we are under a lot of stress and adrenalin is pumping around our body, our breathing becomes shallower and shorter, having an effect on our speech.
             • Hami Shearlie …

               18 August 2014 at 11:00 am

               Don’t forget Key’s habit of rubbing his nose – another tell!
     • cardassian 7.3.2

       18 August 2014 at 9:01 pm

       Where abouts was the “…haven’t reheasred…” bit?
   • vto 7.4

     18 August 2014 at 8:15 am

     Key’s shallow self is being rubbed raw…
   • Molly 7.5

     18 August 2014 at 8:22 am

     Guyon definitely did his job superbly this time.

     Knew that Key had made a mistake at the beginning with his smarmy “Take a breath…” comment to Guyon. Losing control of the Crosby/Textor script for a schoolboy taunt.
     • vto 7.5.1

       18 August 2014 at 8:28 am

       All Key has ever had has been schoolyard mannerisms.

       Sneering.
       Screwing his nose up.
       Little taunts.
       Rolling his eyes.
       Smirks

       I tells ya – the man is the most shallow we have ever had as a Prime Minister and that is why he is being rubbed raw – he has no depth.
       • Bearded Git 7.5.1.1

         18 August 2014 at 9:35 am

         Perfect vto-I’ve never bought into the PR myth of the charming folksy Mr. Key. The facade is crumbling at a rate of knots.

         What price TeamKey now?

         This is not the first time that Guyon has surprised with an excellent interview. If he can maintain equal treatment of left and right (crucial) he could become a broadcasting legend.
   • One Anonymous Bloke 7.6

     18 August 2014 at 8:47 am

     Just finished listening to it. Asking questions Key can’t answer, because if he answers them truthfully he’s finished.

     How will National respond? The ethical wing of the party is awfully quiet.
     • Draco T Bastard 7.6.1

       18 August 2014 at 9:43 am

       National doesn’t appear to have an ethical wing any more. It seems to have died with Muldoon.
       • One Anonymous Bloke 7.6.1.1

         18 August 2014 at 12:03 pm

         Perhaps that explains the silence 😉
   • Rosie 7.7

     18 August 2014 at 9:00 am

     I was shocked and pleasantly surprised by E Spinner. It was if he had woken up from a dream and seen the light of day. He also sounded quite offended that Key placed Slater in the same category as journalists from RNZ and other media too. At approximately 7 minutes in when E Spinner was asking Key whether it was ok for public servants to receive death threats it was like they broke into an analogue version of looping, as Key was trying so hard to evade the question and E Spinner wouldn’t let it go.

     E Spinner: “Is it ok…….”.Key” People can see…………” repeated about 5 times. Dotcom could use that as a loop on his next release. The song could be “Is it ok?” there’s a lot of material for lyrics available.

     (Sounds like Key still hasn’t read The Book. Has he?)

     Excellent line of questioning that really had Key straining to answer in his regular finely honed brand of spin. More interviews like this please.
     • Karen 7.7.1

       18 August 2014 at 9:39 am

       I suspect Guyon read the book over the weekend. Although he is a conservative and a supporter of the National Party, I do not think he would approve of the Lusk/Slater/Collins behaviour and would have expected Key to distance himself from them. Suzie, on the other hand, is happy to continue the Slater line that Dotcom is involved in an attempt to divert attention from the issues raised in Nicky Hager’s book.

       Andrew Geddis on Pundit is an essential read this morning.
       http://pundit.co.nz/content/cri-du-c%C5%93ur
       • Rosie 7.7.1.1

         18 August 2014 at 9:57 am

         I wondered that too Karen. E Spinner conveyed a sense of disgust and seemed to have a good grasp on the allegations, which made me think he had read The Book.

         Even for conservatives like him there is a moral boundary that should never be breached, and it sounds like he views the behaviour of the characters in the book having done that.

         While there are many RW’ers denying denying denying without having even read a single sentence there must be at least some National voters who do have a well developed sense of fairness and also see their leader and their government as having had a serious drop in standards. There will be some groups of Nat voters who will be quite disappointed and shocked by all this and view this behaviour as a serious breach of moral and social decency.
       • Draco T Bastard 7.7.1.2

         18 August 2014 at 2:32 pm

         What Geddis relates in that piece is the psychopathy of National. Especially this bit:

         Or is it when this same Simon Lusk states:

         I’m just motivated to cut throats. Unfortunately the biggest buzz I get is when I wreck someone, only done it three times, but I was on a massive high. (p. 65-6)
   • Blue 7.8

     18 August 2014 at 9:48 am

     Geez. That must be the first decent interview of Key by any NZ media, ever.
   • yeshe 7.9

     18 August 2014 at 1:11 pm

     Sounds like Guyon Espiner has only just found out his friend Duncan Garner was under discussion for being blackmailed, he is so angry. Kudos to him for standing over Key and his rubbish answers. Key sounded to me like he was admiring himself in a mirror the whole time,.(That must be teflon falling off all over his bathroom floor.)

     Methinks we could be heading into some deep and dark constitutional issues before this day is done with the email dump coming up.

     And just how decent is our GG General Jerry Mateparae ? Is he fully owned by Key and Key’s masters? I hope we don’t need to find out, but this is what Watergate felt like as the truth inevitably unravelled in to full public sunlight .. ripples are the promises the waves make to the flood.
8. tricledrown 8

   18 August 2014 at 7:49 am

   Key now admits Ede was looking at Labours site then said nothing wrong in that Guyon had him on about his moral compass as Prime Minister of New Zealand
   Then Key said it was ok for Slater to be calling ChCh people scum
   Collins as police and electoral commission to be involved in having a public servant facing death threats Key put his foot in it and now is in big trouble!
   Collins must resign and be prosecuted !
   Key is in massive trouble.
9. wyndham 9

   18 August 2014 at 7:54 am

   Ever heard a man say ‘at the end of the day’ so many times in such a short period ?! Key to Espiner on MR. Lesson in how to dissemble.
   • Rodel 9.1

     18 August 2014 at 9:05 am

     Yep. ‘At the end of the day’….’In the end’….’No but what I can say is…’
     It appears that Keys focus word, ‘look!’ has run it’s course after Melissa Lee overused it 15 or more times in one interview.

     Memo from John Key to Crosby Textor:
     Quick give me another mantra.
     Bloody Espiner’s rendered the old ones ineffective.

     (Never thought I’d say it, but well done Mr Espiner.)
     • Red Whine 9.1.1

       18 August 2014 at 10:36 am

       I was pleasantly surprised by Espiner’s tenacity this morning as he’s usually ineffectual when dealing with ‘important people’. I suspect it might be down to; a) having read the book he actually knew what he was talking about for a change, and b) wasn’t prepared to let Key make him look like a patsy.
   • Red Whine 9.2

     18 August 2014 at 10:11 am

     Whenever anyone says to me “At the end of the day….” I hear them saying they believe the end (however desireable from their viewpoint) justifies the means (however dubious), which is a slippery slope Key is all too obviously at the bottom of.
   • yeshe 9.3

     18 August 2014 at 1:21 pm

     well, the end of this day sees the beginning of the whole email dump … shonkey might have to ask CrosbyText for a new phrase !
10. ScottGN 10

    18 August 2014 at 8:00 am

    Carole Cadwalladr on Dotcom in The Observer
    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/17/kim-dotcom-megaupload-new-zealand-interview
11. tricledrown 11

    18 August 2014 at 8:09 am

    Key admitted Jason Eded spied on the labour website to pass on material to Slater
    and Collins also.
    Key then tries to say Hagers book had nothing in it ShonKeys involvement with the SIS must be True as well
    National are in the shit right up to their necks and now When the Emails are released and proven not to come from Dotcom Key and Slater are Toast!
    Last week it was the allegations were baseless now they are all true!
    Key said it was OK for a police ministe electoral commissiner to be involved in this behaviour!
    Shonkey has admitted then he was using the SIS for political purposes by default!
    Media now need to ask John Key about his scuriless behaviour around the SIS!
    Key is in deep do do’s!
    • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1

      18 August 2014 at 8:48 am

      Shorter Prime Minister: “They did it too!”
12. Adrian 12

    18 August 2014 at 8:14 am

    Yes Miravox, I’m glad you heard that , I thought I must have misheard it.
    “WE HAVEN’T REHEARSED THAT”
    Has to be the headline quote of the election.
    • Molly 12.1

      18 August 2014 at 10:24 am

      … was at 3.15 for those who want to hear it…
    • Olwyn 12.2

      18 August 2014 at 11:34 am

      Far be it from me to defend the PM, but it seemed to me that he was making slightly clumsy use of the other meaning of rehearsed, eg, https://www.google.co.nz/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=rehearse – see definition (2).

      This is not to say I think he handled the interview well – I do not, and I am glad he is rattled by Hager’s book. He has gotten away with too much for too long. But nonetheless, I don’t think he was admitting to having rehearsed his answers, in the definition (1) sense.
13. Ennui 13

    18 August 2014 at 8:40 am

    It really looks like a cliff hanger election coming up: my fervent hope is that this election will finish the single party rule of elected dictatorships (left or right).

    Should the government be a true MMP coalition their diversity of opinions will require compromise and consideration. Imagine ta parliament that for the first time in living memory actually debated issues without the knowledge that the result was a foregone conclusion. Would that not be a delight!
    • Draco T Bastard 13.1

      18 August 2014 at 10:01 am

      It would be nice but you’re not going to get that from a representative democracy. You’ll only get it from a participatory democracy where it’s the people making the decisions and not some elected dictators.
      • TheContrarian 13.1.1

        18 August 2014 at 3:22 pm

        We’ve been over this before Draco – a participatory democracy would be a cluster-fuck.

        Like I say to you every time you bring this up – in the 2012/2013 some 200+ bills were passed in parliament. Are we all to vote on them all?
        • Draco T Bastard 13.1.1.1

          18 August 2014 at 5:56 pm

          https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity
          https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question

          Now fuck off.
          • TheContrarian 13.1.1.1.1

            18 August 2014 at 7:10 pm

            Well actually it’s neither of those.

            You are stating now, and have previously stated, the we should be a participatory democracy to which I have asked, now and previously, how this would work given 200+ bills are passed per year.

            This is neither loaded (because you can answer it with a proper solution) nor personal incredulity (because it doesn’t imply it is not true, just that you have yet to give an coherent explanation of how it would work).

            How would it work? Do we vote on every bill in your participatory democracy? Or just some?

            These questions are pertinent to the the idea of a participatory democracy and are not logically fallacious.

            Also you have engaged in an Tu Quoque fallacy above…and an attempted fallacy fallacy argument (which was incorrect but, hey, you tried to play it)
    • Red Whine 13.2

      18 August 2014 at 10:20 am

      Unfortunately the shot-gun wedding of the Tories and LibDems in the UK has been no great advert for the delights of coalition Government.
    • JanMeyer 13.3

      18 August 2014 at 11:08 am

      MMP has had the effect of cementing in the reforms of Douglas and then Richardson. Clark dabbled with the idea of tweaking the neo liberal “consensus” but drew back from the brink in repsonse to some serious push back. Nothing will change going forward. FPP is less “democratic” but it did allow a welfare state to be created. Hard to see how the existing “consensus” can ever be significantly altered under MMP.
      • Draco T Bastard 13.3.1

        18 August 2014 at 2:37 pm

        The same way it was created under FPP – the government passes the legislation and the people keep voting them in until they vote them out. The more different the Left become from National the more chance they have of staying in government.
14. North 14

    18 August 2014 at 9:00 am

    TheGodKey’s media trainers (Wilson…Ralston?) will be sorely concerned by their subject’s pathetic effort on RNZ Morning Report this morning.

    Espiner got it perfectly right with his approach – “I’m not asking for your critique of Hager’s book…….I’m asking you if it’s OK for a minister to…….” “Is it OK ?” “The minister’s admitted it……” “Is it OK ?”

    The media’s been doing it for years…….allowing TheGodKey to get away with posing as some sort of objective academic analyst of matters political. Allowing him the (fake) ‘authority’ of someone not intimately personally involved in the matter at hand.

    So patently TheGodKey for all his vaunted theistic qualities ain’t much better than an obfuscating punk with every reason to lie when it comes to the ‘real questions’ format employed by Espiner this morning.

    “Thank you Prime Minister” takes on new meaning. Looking forward to Hooten’s ‘spray’ at 11.00 am today on RNZ with Kathryn Ryan. Will be telling if we’re witness to another ‘shouty’ episode.
15. gsays 15

    18 August 2014 at 9:03 am

    prime minister = first servant.

    to lead effectively the prime minister MUST uphold the law.

    these utterings of: the left would have done it so its ok…. remind me of the justification of a guilty child caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
    a poorly bought up child with no moral compass.

    its awkward when you tell a lie then have to tell another lie, then remember those two lies while telling another lie..

    I am almost starting to feel sorry for him. (secretly rubbing hands together in glee).
    • Anne 15.1

      18 August 2014 at 10:05 am

      Just listened to the interview:

      “pisspictive” for perspective …. “ginirilly” for generally. Hangover much! New Zealand’s Prime Minister.

      I hang my head in shame and embarrassment.

      And what about this quote in respect of the Slater OIA to the SIS:

      No. I knew nothing about it. It didn’t go through me. Acshully, I’ve been amazed at what has been released by the SIS. – sucks in breath.

      That is more than a lie. To claim such an agency regularly hands out secret info. to any Tom, Dick or Harry – which was the clear tone of the comment – without any reference to him is bordering on libel.

      And what’s this Warren bit? His name is Warren Tucker. He was head of the SIS at the time. Is it not totally out of order to refer to him as Warren… as if he was a personal mate? So unprofessional!!
16. disturbed 16

    18 August 2014 at 9:30 am

    We heard,

    At three minutes into the RNZ discussion on 18th August 2014 between Guyon Espiner & P.M. Key the following was said;

    Question from Guyon Espiner. To PM;

    “You said it was o/k for Jason Edes to look and poke around in that (Labour Party) material?”

    John Key relied ; –
    “One – as I understand it, haven’t rehearsed the whole thing,”

    Key on the ropes as Guyon comes out swinging
    for truth “is it ok, – is it ok – is it ok?
    and Key wont answer yes or no.
    Gone by lunch anyone?
    • Te Reo Putake 16.1

      18 August 2014 at 10:29 am

      Sounds like “and we can rehearse the whole thing”. If it’s a slip of the tongue (rehash?) then it’s comically revealing.
      • CnrJoe 16.1.1

        18 August 2014 at 11:00 am

        Thats what I heard too
17. halfcrown 17

    18 August 2014 at 9:32 am

    Collins Has got to go. Like NOW.

    It is disgusting that a Minister of the Crown, a Minister of Justice, admits that she gave personal details of a civil servant to a member of the general public.

    What faith are we going to have in governments irrespective who they are if this type of action is condoned.
    • Bearded Git 17.1

      18 August 2014 at 9:45 am

      @halfcrown-probably better if she stays as the gift that just keeps on giving.

      It means Key’s credibility will be destroyed in the election campaign and debates.
      • halfcrown 17.1.1

        18 August 2014 at 10:19 am

        So true bearded, but I feel we must all be vigilant if we want to keep the democracy we have.

        Key’s credibility must be destroyed over this for the reasons I stated.
    • Rosie 17.2

      18 August 2014 at 10:00 am

      Makes one wonder, if she is still here after all this, when the Oravida saga should have finished her, what dirt does Collins have on Key that she has so much power over him? He seems scared of her.
    • Kiwiri 17.3

      18 August 2014 at 10:11 am

      Collins has to go.
      Can someone please set up an online petition for the NZ Public to register their concerns?
      • Kiwiri 17.3.1

        18 August 2014 at 11:13 am

        A suggested petition:

        Remove all ministerial warrants from Judith Collins, and particularly the ministerial warrant relating to her role as minister in charge of the Electoral Commission.

        Post-script:
        Looks like someone has already got on to an online petition:

        http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/john-key-sack-judith-collins
18. tricledrown 18

    18 August 2014 at 9:42 am

    Now we need to makeBroadcasting Standards complaints to Media Works and other Networks that are running patsy questions and Joyces propaganda!
    We need to stand up for Democracy and Fairness in our News Media otherwise Joyce and Key will win!
    The more complaints the Media will have become Fair Media Works is running Whale Oils line without Question!
    Media Works are running a concerted campaign to lower voter turnout!
    A lot of snide remarks and pro Key endorsements Berlusconi style bought off Media!
19. dv 19

    18 August 2014 at 9:48 am

    I thought that Collins was on a last warning after Oraivita?
20. Te Reo Putake 20

    18 August 2014 at 10:14 am

    Oh dear, Jordan Williams appears to have cracked. He’s reduced to making threats to women on Twitter.

    Jordan Williams ‏@JordNZ

    @helenkellyCTU my advice is to be very careful.
    • BM 20.1

      18 August 2014 at 10:28 am

      Making threats to a woman?, that’s outrageous.!!!!

      Poor wee Helen, being a women she’ll have no doubt collapsed into an emotional pile of nonsense, Williams would have known that too, but attacked Kelly anyway.
      What a total bastard!!
      • Te Reo Putake 20.1.1

        18 August 2014 at 10:34 am

        Excellent work, BM. Sarcasm and belittling language. Kinda like the PM’s response to the Wellington attempted rape and his later accusation that Laila Harre is a bought woman. Stay classy, National.
        • vto 20.1.1.1

          18 August 2014 at 10:37 am

          lol, yep, they cannot help but let their true nature shine on through …..
      • tricledrown 20.1.2

        18 August 2014 at 11:00 am

        Boorish Misogynist complicit behaviour desperation is no excuse for misogyny
        • BM 20.1.2.1

          18 August 2014 at 11:16 am

          Hilarious, you’ll so oblivious to your own misogyny, you completely missed what I was getting at.
          • tricledrown 20.1.2.1.1

            18 August 2014 at 12:01 pm

            That god for that
          • tricledrown 20.1.2.1.2

            18 August 2014 at 12:31 pm

            Blatantly Miopic In the end you always know best(inuendo)
21. Puckish Rogue 21

    18 August 2014 at 10:18 am

    Gee the elections got interesting (and fun) again, Hager has an book full of smears, lies and half-truths out, everyone from bloggers to MPs (on the right of course) have their lap tops and offices broken into and the left-wing media show their true colours

    Its all good 🙂
    • KJS0ne 21.1

      18 August 2014 at 10:37 am

      Any evidence to back up your claims that Hager’s book is full of smears, lies and half truths? Especially given the fact that it is mostly made up of documented correspondence between National staff, MPs and Cameron Slater? Especially given the fact that Hager is a meticulous researcher, who has in past refused to document many things he knows to be true simply for the fact that he didn’t have the evidence to back it up. Especially given the fact that John Key has now gone on record (RNZ interview) accepting that some of the main claims in the book really did happen (Judith Collins leaking innocent civil servant name to Slater, SIS document being declassified and given directly to Slater – Although he denys personal involvement, National staff exploiting a security flaw in the Labour Party’s website to take private information for political gain.)

      Or are you just talking out your ass, and regurgitating John Key’s verbal ejaculate verbatim?
      • Te Reo Putake 21.1.1

        18 August 2014 at 10:42 am

        Well, to be fair to PR, he could just be referring to the source material. As we know, most of what National staff, MPs and Cameron Slater write actually is smears, lies and half truths.
        • Draco T Bastard 21.1.1.1

          18 August 2014 at 2:47 pm

          😆 😈
      • Puckish Rogue 21.1.2

        18 August 2014 at 11:29 am

        How about the denials from the parties named for starters? (Sorry I forgot anything unproven from Hager is true) How about he claims he doesn’t know who his sources are but knows it isn’t Dot Con?

        Don’t get me wrong, I think its great. This shows what politics is really like and, according to Willie Jackson, the lefts just as bad if not worse.
        • Tracey 21.1.2.1

          18 August 2014 at 11:34 am

          do you believe everything willie jackson says
          • Puckish Rogue 21.1.2.1.1

            18 August 2014 at 11:55 am

            He gets it wrong with his support Carlos Spencer thats for sure but yeah the left is just as bad as the right, its just that the right are better at it
            • tricledrown 21.1.2.1.1.1

              18 August 2014 at 12:35 pm

              Bad PR Spencer ran out of ideas and became a one trick pony who could only bully his way through the opposition and no one wanted him in the end!
              Ironic
        • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1.2.2

          18 August 2014 at 12:08 pm

          Denials is a new word for confessions, from Judith Collins, from John Key. Yes, she passed on Pleasant’s details, yes, Ede works for him.

          Meanwhile, PR is still parroting the disastrous “stolen lies” line. Polly wanna cracker?
    • minarch 21.2

      18 August 2014 at 10:42 am

      look who just punched his clock this morning !

      you working the late morning shift P(ublic) R(elations) ?
      • Tracey 21.2.1

        18 August 2014 at 11:44 am

        couldnt post til after the monday morning briefing
      • Puckish Rogue 21.2.2

        18 August 2014 at 11:47 am

        Had to put my invoices in, you know how it is
        • minarch 21.2.2.1

          18 August 2014 at 3:27 pm

          good man ! You must be due some kind of bonus youve been working hard ?
    • Draco T Bastard 21.3

      18 August 2014 at 2:50 pm

      The Authoritarianism* is strong in this one.

      • One of the most despicable traits of an authoritarian mind is the defense of the indefensible when their leaders do it. They will always defend their leaders – no matter what the evidence is.
22. KJS0ne 22

    18 August 2014 at 10:32 am

    So what does Judith Collins have over John Key. Why is he so desperate to hold on to her, despite her rapidly growing unpopularity, many questionable if not downright disgusting actions, not the least of which is leaking the name of (later discovered to be) innocent civil servant directly to Cameron Slater whom she wanted to see “fired and tarred and feathered”, the man – Mr. Pleasants, later receiving death threats. On the RNZ interview Key refused to answer whether he had known about Collins doing this. Pretty categorical imo, since if Key hadn’t known about it you can guarantee he would have said no.

    Sounds to me like Key is afraid of the damage Collins would do if he gave her the axe.
    • coolas 22.1

      18 August 2014 at 11:31 am

      What does Collins have over Key? Perhaps it’s something to do with China, milk, and corruption. There are interesting linkages. The person who headhunted Key into politics, Jenny Shipley, chairs CCB New Zealand, a fully-owned subsidiary of the state-controlled China Construction Bank, one of the biggest banks in the world, with a pre-tax profit in 2013 of US$45.85 billion. Think Shanghai Pengxin, Crafer farms, Lochinver, and Synlait, and Ruth Richardson, former National finance minister, is a director on Synlait milk, which is Shanghai Pengxin’s Sth Island operation. I just can’t imagine Key hasn’t got his hand out for either $$ or a job later on. Maybe?
    • Chooky 22.2

      18 August 2014 at 11:51 am

      +100…other dispassionate observers are also thinking Collins has John Key in a Devil’s blackmail hold

      … and if Key pushes Collins over the cliff she will grab his leg and take him with her

      …so what corrupt NACT can of worms is there to be brought to light?
      • yeshe 22.2.1

        18 August 2014 at 1:45 pm

        sounds like a fine Tom Scott cartoon .. lovely imagery over the cliff, Chooky 😀
23. halfcrown 23

    18 August 2014 at 10:38 am

    Puckish, I am sure your comment is a wind up, However. if Hagers book is “full of smears, lies and half-truths”, surly that would be libelous. That being the case why has no one sued Hager for libel, and why has Collins, a Minister of the Crown admitted that she had given Slater details of a civil servant.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 23.1

      18 August 2014 at 10:45 am

      Everything in the book is true. Puckish Rogue approves of it, which is why he’s here defending it. Unfortunately the fool just contradicted Dear Leader, who, far from denying the books contents, says “Labour did it too”.
      • Tracey 23.1.1

        18 August 2014 at 11:47 am

        So PRs gist seems to be that Hager is a lying smearing devil, and Slater is?

        I hope he and others get paid to write this crap.
        • Puckish Rogue 23.1.1.1

          18 August 2014 at 3:01 pm

          Its more Hager is on the left so hes a lying smearing devil whereas Slater is on the right therefore he isn’t
          • One Anonymous Bloke 23.1.1.1.1

            18 August 2014 at 11:11 pm

            I have never received email from that man. I am not a crook. It’s nothing to do with the National Party. Labour does it too.
    • Puckish Rogue 23.2

      18 August 2014 at 2:22 pm

      Spin version: We don’t want to give Hager anymore oxygen

      Real version: If it comes to court then he’ll probably be proven correct whereas this way we can just discredit him so why take the chance

      Its all good
      • One Anonymous Bloke 23.2.1

        18 August 2014 at 11:17 pm

        It’s all lies. Labour does it too. Franks Ogilvie pay my rent. Judith Collins is innocent. John Banks will be found not guilty because he’s not guilty.
24. Adrian 24

    18 August 2014 at 10:54 am

    This week has shown something I think we have all missed, it’s not Key that has cultivated Slater but Collins. Anything Slater has got on Key is for Collins benefit not vice versa. If she goes Key is in deep shit. Can anyone here the jet idling at Mangere ?
    • Kiwiri 24.1

      18 August 2014 at 11:01 am

      The best thing Prime Minister Key can do for the country and to give a good lasting legacy?

      Take the axe to Collins, Slater and Ede.

      Then apply the broom to himself to clean out the Executive Government.
25. just saying 25

    18 August 2014 at 11:13 am

    It has been interesting to notice which commentators have been most eager to downplay and tacitly condone what has been reported in Hager’s book. I suspect there would be a reasonable correlation with the contents of Slater’s speed dial.

    As for those amongst them who pupport to represent the left, let the purge begin.

    edit: naturally, most of those concerned have suggested that a few things described in the book cross a line, but have not condemned the majority of the behaviour nor the substance
26. Pete 26

    18 August 2014 at 11:26 am

    Whaleoil hacker contacts Herald. Now things will get interesting again. Soon on http://t.co/GEBuowOQDr. #hagerbook— Tim Murphy (@tmurphyNZH) August 17, 2014

    More details at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11310429
    • Tiger Mountain 26.1

      18 August 2014 at 11:47 am

      yep a wiki style release looks likely, of course the ‘hacker’s account is hosted on Mega just to annoy people and includes Julian Assanges st address at the embassy, what a wind up merchant.
      • Tracey 26.1.1

        18 August 2014 at 11:51 am

        why would you give stuff to the herald. Good to see them doing some old fashioned verification work.
      • Draco T Bastard 26.1.2

        18 August 2014 at 3:03 pm

        I’m hoping that the hacker has given all the stuff to Wikileaks.
      • minarch 26.1.3

        18 August 2014 at 3:29 pm

        for teh lulz !
    • Tracey 26.2

      18 August 2014 at 12:18 pm

      Im too cynical, begun onndering if its the real hacker or a black ops version…
      • yeshe 26.2.1

        18 August 2014 at 1:49 pm

        I’m with you Tracey .. had similar thoughts. But maybe it’s very clever to choose NZH .. if the Herald is convinced, then it will nullify one of Key’s biggest public weapons.

        I decided it’s real .. and can’t wait now :popcorn:
        • Tracey 26.2.1.1

          18 August 2014 at 1:51 pm

          Hager doesnt need tomake stuff up, imo.
          • yeshe 26.2.1.1.1

            18 August 2014 at 2:31 pm

            No he does not ! Never did make stuff up .. didn’t mean to imply that.
            • Tracey 26.2.1.1.1.1

              18 August 2014 at 2:39 pm

              it was me thinking out loud not suggesting you thought that.

              power has gone in epsom. literally and metaphorically… am posting from my phone
27. Karen 27

    18 August 2014 at 11:29 am

    I just heard Matthew Hooten say David Cunliffe will be PM at the end of the year!
    • Tracey 27.1

      18 August 2014 at 11:50 am

      if you heard hooton last week, do you know his response to having given over hagers street address to cathy odgers.

      Btw ms odgers and ms collins, both tax lawyers
    • tricledrown 27.2

      18 August 2014 at 12:04 pm

      Karen that was a dog whistle to hard core National supporters to get out and Vote from the cunning dead rat eater
      • Karen 27.2.1

        18 August 2014 at 12:16 pm

        On reflection, I think you are right tricledrown.
    • Chooky 27.3

      18 August 2014 at 12:07 pm

      Yes Kathryn Ryan was pointed in stating at the beginning that Hooton has a PR company and features three times in Hager’s book ‘Dirty Politics’.

      (Hooton gave Hager’s address to Odgers…which could have amounted to a physical threat to Hager…personally I think Hooton should be barred from Radio New Zealand )

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11309750

      http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/08/16/hagers-dirty-politics-death-threats-or-hit-jobs/

      Kathryn Ryan also made sure that Mike Williams ( who is usually over-ridden by Hooton ) had a fair go for a change

      …..and Mike Williams was damning about the filth surrounding John Key’s NACT strategy PR emails ….

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/20146062/political-commentators-matthew-hooton-and-mike-williams
      • Tracey 27.3.1

        18 August 2014 at 12:16 pm

        did he deny he passed on the street name.
        • Chooky 27.3.1.1

          18 August 2014 at 1:23 pm

          no Hooton has not denied it, that I have heard……(nor has Hooton said he has been defamed by Hager’s book ‘Dirty Politics’…..or Bomber Bradbury on ‘Daily Blog’ , where these claims are made)

          …but no one seems to have asked him that question outright..I was waiting for Mike Williams to ask him that question or Kathryn Ryan….why not?
          • Tracey 27.3.1.1.1

            18 August 2014 at 1:54 pm

            i emailed nine to noon this morning. Their reply to my request to put the address allegation to hooton was that was done last week.

            They havent responded at all to my question in the same email if hooton and williams are paid to be on that slot.
            • Chooky 27.3.1.1.1.1

              18 August 2014 at 2:48 pm

              if Hooton has replied to that ‘providing of Hager’s address allegation’ I have not heard it…and if it was done last week i would be interested to see a link up with his reply

              …because to me it is a VERY serious allegation

              …i mean if Hager had been assassinated …would his blood be on the hands of those who provided his address and those who suggested such a possibility and asked for his address? ..and would they be legally culpable in the event?

              ( as regards payment for Hooton and Williams ….i would expect that this is the case for regular political commentators…but strange radionz is not replying to a simple request for the facts)
              • Tracey …

                18 August 2014 at 3:06 pm

                they said i would find it here

                “This was raised with Mr Hooton last week

                http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/20145654/dirty-politics-nicky-hager%27s-book “
                • Chooky …

                  18 August 2014 at 5:28 pm

                  This needs to be transcribed…but from what i can ascertain from that link:

                  1. the question (in context of Odgers and Hager’s address) was not asked directly by Kathryn Ryan
                  2. …there was a tentative, once over lightly, question by Ryan to Hooton as to whether he had released Hager’s address…Hooton said he had “no recollection” and “sure it is true”…but Hager’s address is “no secret” because it is on all Hager’s submissions to Select Committees

                  My conclusion is that the question was not asked properly and nor was it answered directly …the question was not put in its ‘damning’ and ‘threatening’ context….it was tentative , oblique and hasty… and the answer by Hooton was a fudging

                  …IMO the whole section of the interview needs to be transcribed so others can make up their minds….also I look forward to the emails being directly released on this in order to clarify exactly the dialogue and context in which Hooton released Hager’s address
                  • Tracey …

                    18 August 2014 at 6:19 pm

                    and despite my pressing, no response on whether hoots and williams are paid. I asked if they were really going to make me do an OIA… no reply
                    • Chooky …

                      18 August 2014 at 6:59 pm

                      sounds like they are under stress
      • Dialey 27.3.2

        18 August 2014 at 12:32 pm

        Matthew Hooten said he believed David Cunliffe would be Prime Minister by the end of the year. I nearly fell over, except I was sitting down. I think he’s read the writing on the wall
    • Rodel 27.4

      18 August 2014 at 12:12 pm

      Karen -Hooten us usually wrong. Hope not this time.
      • Rodel 27.4.1

        18 August 2014 at 12:56 pm

        ‘is’ not ‘us’
28. Ffloyd 28

    18 August 2014 at 12:04 pm

    Methinks key will be having a few more fainting fits soon.
29. yeshe 29

    18 August 2014 at 12:08 pm

    Breaking right now on TV3News .. hacker to release docs today via Twitter …

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Whale-Oil-hacker-promises-more-details/tabid/1607/articleID/357289/Default.aspx

    (oops .. I see Pete has posted above with direct link to Herald .. but all good news !
    • Molly 29.1

      18 August 2014 at 1:04 pm

      657kb .zip file has been linked to from the @WhaleDump twitter account.

      Don’t usually open .zip files so will have to look for a good software to do so… but it is there for others better prepared than me.
      • Pete 29.1.1

        18 August 2014 at 1:52 pm

        They’ve been reposted to https://imgur.com/a/i8lQT – a handful of image files.
      • yeshe 29.1.2

        18 August 2014 at 1:55 pm

        molly .. I can’t see where the zip file attached on that acct ? Can you help me with where to look pse ? thx
        • KJS0ne 29.1.2.1

          18 August 2014 at 2:06 pm

          https://twitter.com/whaledump/status/501171743806214144

          Link’s dead already. That was damn fast. Lucky enough of us got hold of the material before it went down.
          • yeshe 29.1.2.1.1

            18 August 2014 at 2:28 pm

            interesting isn’t it ?
          • Chris 29.1.2.1.2

            18 August 2014 at 3:06 pm

            So what does that mean? Can’t we get to see them now?
            • yeshe 29.1.2.1.2.1

              18 August 2014 at 3:38 pm

              see Pete’s post at 29.1.1
      • Red Whine 29.1.3

        18 August 2014 at 3:27 pm

        I run all my internet-based apps, and anything I have the slightest uncertainty about, in a Sandboxie instance:

        http://www.sandboxie.com

        “Protection from rogue software, spyware and malware by isolating your browser, PDF reader, and applications in a sandbox

        Run programs in a sandbox to prevent rogue software, unwanted programs, spyware, viruses, worms, and other malware from making permanent changes to your machine

        Protect yourself from a wide variety of attacks - ranging from botnets to banking Trojans and ransomware to run of the mill viruses

        Configure your own sandboxes to meet your specific needs - install new software directly into a sandbox, run multiple copies of the same on-line game, turn a single-instance application into a multi-user application."


        And it’s free (and hopefully not bugged!).
    • emergency mike 29.2

      18 August 2014 at 1:22 pm

      Slater: “People with much more to lose than I do will now fall in behind me and others who don’t break the law to hunt down everyone involved with this. Poor Nicky Hager. He’s really been minced here.”

      Yes Cam, everyone is going to ‘fall in behind you’. Of course they are.
      • Hayden 29.2.1

        18 August 2014 at 6:36 pm

        …me and others who don’t break the law…

        Pretty bold for a convicted criminal.
30. rhinocrates 30

    18 August 2014 at 12:25 pm

    Let’s remember that it’s not just Slater. As well as Odgers and Hooton publicising Nicky Hager’s address and smacking their lips over the prospect of harm – or worse – coming to him, we have the Penguin’s mate, Jordan Williams issuing a threat to Helen Kelly as well: https://twitter.com/JordNZ/status/501113656784863232

    “Be very careful”, he says. Bluster or not, effective or not, there you have an insight into their personalities. Pure evil.
    • Chris 30.1

      18 August 2014 at 3:10 pm

      Hooton was very subdued on Ryan’s show this morning, but he shouldn’t be there at all.
      • Chooky 30.1.1

        18 August 2014 at 5:58 pm

        Agreed Hooton shouldn’t be on radionz!

        And Bomber Bradbury is also having a go at their shoddy editorial policy and journalism

        ‘Open letter to Radio NZ – you need to make a retraction now’

        By Martyn Bradbury / August 18, 2014

        “I have just sent this off to Radio NZ right now…

        • See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/08/18/open-letter-to-radio-nz-you-need-to-make-a-retraction-now/#sthash.WYt204oE.dpuf
31. ianmac 31

    18 August 2014 at 12:26 pm

    Don’t know how to publish this but as Lynn says funny numbers of Whaleoil traffic scores. Graphs included.

    Retweeted 207 times
    Kim Dotcom ‏@KimDotcom Aug 16

    I did a traffic analysis on WhaleOil. Turns out it’s ShrimpOil. Lots of fake traffic & bots. #HagerBook check this: pic.twitter.com/NH6ZuI2owu
    Embedded image permalink
    • ianmac 31.1

      18 August 2014 at 12:31 pm

      Found the whaleoil lower visits via Pete above inside
      http://t.co/GEBuowOQDr. #hagerbook— Tim Murphy (@tmurphyNZH) August 17, 2014
      Correction #hagerbook

      Better https://twitter.com/hashtag/hagerbook?src=hash
      Vast majority visits from bots.
      • dv 31.1.1

        18 August 2014 at 12:58 pm

        Two key stats struck me from the data

        Only 30% of visits from NZ
        and 81% from from safari (mainly mac browser)
        Chrome 1%
32. yeshe 32

    18 August 2014 at 12:27 pm

    Some thoughts overnight .. not fully formed ( need coffee!) but would enjoy some discussion … no page numbers yet but will get them in … I just need to get this in here now …

    Lusk features substantially in Dirty Politics, including his manifesto of how to control the future of politics in NZ and move National hard right by bringing in young men and ‘training’ them. He is quoted as saying he has been able to get three of his ‘candidates’ elected including Jamie Lee-Ross and Mark Mitchell.

    Now we know of Slater’s payments from big tobacco via Carrick Graham. And now, isn ‘t it true there are three young National candidates all from tobacco backgrounds ? (Have to do my research on names but you’ll be getting my drift.)

    Clutha is the most obvious with English’s replacement in such a safe Blue seat ( or is it ?) — can someone down there ( journalist or constituent) ask this of the new National candidate: ” Are you employing Lusk, or have you employed Lusk at any time as an adviser of any type whatsoever? Have you ever paid him any money for any contracted services?”

    Likewise, the other two young tobacco-backed candidates ? Let’s out the discussion on them now as probable Lusk ‘operatives’ before it goes any further, for the sake of NZ and our democracy.

    (And please, feel free to add in the gaps I have missed in my urgency!)
    • yeshe 32.1

      18 August 2014 at 12:38 pm

      Todd Barclay is Clutha Southland National candidate who needs to be asked about Simon Lusk.

      And correction .. Lusk claims to have two of his three candidates elected, not three as I posted above. ( Wonder who the lost cause was ?)
      • Rosie 32.1.1

        18 August 2014 at 6:19 pm

        Thats a bit weird. I replied to you yeshe at your 12.27 post and didn’t see the 12.38 post above where you mention Todd Barclay.

        After I posted my reply at 5.37 I returned to find the 12.38 post………………

        So sorry, I wasn’t intending to double up on naming Todd Barclay.
    • Rosie 32.2

      18 August 2014 at 5:37 pm

      I’ve been thinking about the fag lobby candidates too yeshe. Todd ‘baby tory boy’ Barclay is the Nat candidate in Clutha Southland and Chris Bishop is in Hutt South.

      Their path to candidacy needs to be investigated – no time to speculate now, gotta dash, but I do agree, a mighyt big spot light needs to shine on them
      • yeshe 32.2.1

        18 August 2014 at 6:52 pm

        thx rosie .. we can keep on it … I think it’s important to us all.
33. Te Reo Putake 33

    18 August 2014 at 12:27 pm

    Ha! https://twitter.com/whaledump. A couple of followers this morning, a couple of thousand at lunchtime. I think I know what’s leading the 6 o’clock news tonight!
    • Te Reo Putake 33.1

      18 August 2014 at 1:10 pm

      First release … some teasers. I’m working my way through the list.

      https://t.co/a4frPqb7nf
      • karol 33.1.1

        18 August 2014 at 1:46 pm

        The Kevin Taylor ones are about some questions beign asked at the time on the Standard.
      • yeshe 33.1.2

        18 August 2014 at 1:57 pm

        Mega says the file no longer exists ?? TRP — can you help pse ?
        • joe90 33.1.2.1

          18 August 2014 at 1:59 pm

          https://imgur.com/a/i8lQT
          • yeshe 33.1.2.1.1

            18 August 2014 at 2:20 pm

            thx joe
34. Te Reo Putake 34

    18 August 2014 at 1:19 pm

    The dump is mainly screenshots of emails between Cam Slater and Jason Ede. Oddly Cam writes to Ede, but someone called ‘political.animal’ replies. The same person appears to use the handle nzedjed.
    NZedJed has some interesting habits, including a porn portfolio.

    nzedjed also copies DPF into some email exchanges with Slater.

    Slater claims Jami Lee Ross as ‘his mate’. Some relationship! JLR will “do as he is told”.
    • Te Reo Putake 34.1

      18 August 2014 at 1:33 pm

      First news bulletin:

      http://www.3news.co.nz/Whale-Oil-hacker-uploads-email-screenshots/tabid/1607/articleID/357289/Default.aspx

      One of the screenshots is of an email exchange on how to organise an OIA request but it must be a fake because according to Slater: “I don’t think I’ve ever received an email from a Jason Ede detailing Official Information Act requests.”
    • Rosie 34.2

      18 August 2014 at 5:32 pm

      Chapter two: The PM’s black ops man, p.28.

      Ede was also at a political.animal101 address as well as nzedjed. So it was Ede replying.
35. Sookie 35

    18 August 2014 at 1:43 pm

    When has NZ politics been this car crash fascinating? And I thought this election was going to be a boring Nat walkover smugfest. I feel we should all buy Mr Hager a beer. This Twitter stuff must mean that heads will roll now, surely? How can that nice Mr Key get away with this ‘whatever’ denial sh*t? He must sacrifice raging boot Collins at least.
36. joe90 36

    18 August 2014 at 1:55 pm

    Courtesy of Mr Brown over on Public Address.

    https://imgur.com/a/i8lQT

    http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-dirty-politics/?p=320231#post320231
37. Saarbo 37

    18 August 2014 at 1:55 pm

    Just wondering at what stage John Armstrong calls for John Key to resign? I mean, the Don Liu thing looks like kindergarten compared to what we are seeing in Dirty Politics.
38. Tracey 38

    18 August 2014 at 3:16 pm

    IF the no surprises policy was in place before the sis declassified and/or released OIA stuff to slater, as opposed to dminion, then does the following make a liar of the liar in chief, again?

    As some here may know i have been pursuing the underlying facts to a statement made by bill english to the data forum. Following a request for an extension by the MSD i complained to the Ombudsmen. That office has chased it up and two things emerged. The one relevant to the PM is contained in this from the MSD

    ” In terms of providing the information to the Minister’s Office, this is required of the Ministry as part of the “no surprises” approach. All requests made under the Official Information Act, regardless of their content and nature, must be provided to the Responsible Minister for their information as part of this approach. The “no surprises” approach is consistent with guidelines provided by the State Services Commission and the Cabinet Manual which emphasise that a Department or Ministry ought to advise the Responsible Minister of issues that may be discussed in the public arena or that may require a ministerial response, preferably ahead of time or otherwise as soon as possible “
39. yeshe 39

    18 August 2014 at 4:26 pm

    Have just written to Canon Managing Director copying their PR officer to ask if they understand that Canon 2014 Blogger of the Year Cameron Slater’s website is called Well I’ll Be Fucked when it is spoken out loud. Can’t imagine what Head Office Japan would make of it !

    Have asked them to withdraw the 2014 Blogger of the Year award, outlining numerous reasons.

    This is email addy for Canon managing director if you wish to do something similar …

    Yusuke.Mizoguchi@canon.co.nz

    It’s a little thing to do, but it matters.
    • yeshe 39.1

      18 August 2014 at 5:18 pm

      They have referred me to this which explains in the last paragraphs that Canon have not complained or asked for the award to be withdrawn:

      http://www.canonmediaawards.co.nz/announcements/newspaper-publishers-rebuff-attacks-on-canon

      The note back from Canon encourages me to think that if more people complain directly to Canon, it can give them weight to use. I do not think they are very happy at all about this.

      Anyone out there a Canon customer with cameras, printers etc .. drop them a line pse !
40. Weepus beard 40

    18 August 2014 at 4:42 pm

    I don’t really think John Key is a bad man. Sure, he’s been a money trader all his life which is a profession that we on the more socially conscious end of the political spectrum find bewildering and distasteful. Common belief is that it is a non productive sector of the financial industry and serves no purpose to the enrichment of mankind. Money traders seem to me to be laughing, parasitic ticket clippers.

    Anyway as I said, that notwithstanding, I don’t think John Key is evil. He is arrogant, but not evil. That arrogance though has caused him to lose his office somewhere along the line. I think Eagleson, Ede, Lusk, Slater, and Collins are evil and John Key has allowed that culture to flourish under his preference for light touch management.

    Now he finds himself in a spot of bother.
    • yeshe 40.1

      18 August 2014 at 5:21 pm

      I think what he did to NZ currency when he was a trader was downright evil. And if this has flourished, as you suggest, because his arrogance confused him because of his ‘light touch’ then he is not fit to hold any office, much less our PM. Sorry Weepu’s B .. can’t agree.
      • Weepus beard 40.1.1

        18 August 2014 at 5:59 pm

        I agree he’s not fit to hold office. The hands off, two stage style he’s brought to NZ government is very damaging, and NZ would be a better place this boil having been lanced, imo. John Key has brought a culture of personality to NZ politics not really seen since JFK, and we all know what happened to him.

        But could you really see John Key thinking the same things as the vipers in his office, and their odious connections think? I can’t.

        It’s the hands-off, hands-clean style of government while underhandedness has been allowed to operate that has been his mistake. I do blame him for that and he should take responsibility for it.

        There are many many active voters who still see John Key as a modern deity and these voters are much more active than those who can’t or won’t vote for whatever reason.

        Even if National do win this I think JK, and more particularly, The Trout won’t last long afterwards.
        • andrew murray 40.1.1.1

          18 August 2014 at 6:28 pm

          Read slater’s description of key’s communication concerning the South Island West Coast mother, then review your opinion…. key leads this destruction of political ethics.
          • Weepus beard 40.1.1.1.1

            18 August 2014 at 7:00 pm

            Yes I haven’t read Dirty Politics unfortunately so I might have to change this opinion when I have but I was just trying to say that I don’t think it’s John Key’s overriding evilness that is driving this black ops, but rather his laissez faire attitude to political management which has now got him into trouble. He’s over delegated to some proper evil men and women as far as I can see and for that he has to go.
        • Puddleglum 40.1.1.2

          18 August 2014 at 8:55 pm

          Hi Weepu’s beard,

          My view is that the ‘hands-off’ approach to management is done quite deliberately by Key so that (a) he can dump any bad consequences on others without taking any responsibility (or losing any popularity), and (b) he can get the benefit of their activities while not being himself implicated should they ‘stretch’ the ethical boundaries.

          It’s a form of ‘benign’ neglect which I think he has learnt gets him off the hook in many situations for which he actually bears formal responsibility.

          I also don’t think it was any accident that Key brought someone like Ede into his project to be Prime Minister. And I don’t think that Key ‘misjudged’ Ede’s character. I don’t think John Key is easily fooled by young, politically ambitious things.

          Key would have known what he was getting with Ede. I think Key reads people quite well. (I’m assuming Key had something to do with Ede being brought on board – I don’t know that for certain.)

          I also think this kind of management style is probably pretty much how Key has operated most of his life.

          I don’t think a word like ‘evil’ is useful to describe this approach either, but largely because it is too vague and simplistic.

          Key’s value set – from what I can gather from his public behaviour – is largely centred on his own personal ‘achievement’ which, I think, leads him to minimise – and disown – the ethical issues surrounding the means to the end of that ‘achievement’ (hence ‘deals’ that ‘cut corners’ and seeing culpability as a tactical problem rather than a moral issue).

          Remember that he came to adulthood at pretty much the same time that the Douglas reforms opened up massive opportunities for people keen to ‘succeed’ – at least materially and in terms of status.

          I think he rode along with the self-centred values of those days, largely because they were compatible with the goals he formed as a result of his earlier developmental experiences – an outsider’s background, a doting mother who favoured him over his sisters and a growing desire not just to run with the cool crowd but to beat it at its own game. (He has always wanted to be top dog.)

          He has been able to ‘beat it’ through cultivating an extreme disjunction between the persona he presents to others (relaxed, not too bothered about things, smiley) and his own, private strategic goal-setting (very determined, very serious and of utmost priority to him).

          The latter self apparently comes to the fore when he is challenged or needs to ‘deal’ with someone – his acquaintances and colleagues have called it a ‘core of steel’, I think.

          Or you could call it a ‘two track‘ kind of persona/self, if you like.

          But, who knows, I could be wrong and he might actually be this very straightforward chap for whom the line ‘what you see is what you get’ was originally coined.
    • Colonial Viper 40.2

      18 August 2014 at 5:39 pm

      W.B. Your kind remarks about John Key are very generous of you, and a credit to your character. I must agree with you that John Key is not “evil” as such. For that man, selling out our country, selling out our people, selling out our future, is simply business, not personal.

      Vote them all out.
      • Weepus beard 40.2.1

        18 August 2014 at 6:05 pm

        Yeah, that’s it. It’s an ideology of his. We, as more socially inclusive and socially conscious people, hold an opposite ideology.

        I just think the guy must be extremely embarrassed at the moment hence the attacking of the messanger, Hager, but he must have known about all this stuff, having read WO and having kept up with the the new media, blogs, as he himself has claimed to have done.

        Maybe he’s too reliant on Crosby Textor speak, and that has been his undoing.
        • yeshe 40.2.1.1

          18 August 2014 at 7:56 pm

          He’s a crook, way back when .. do you remember when he was first outed on his Trans Rail shares ? And that was so minor compared with what has gone on. If you stand it Weepu, read the book. I knew it would be awful, yet still I was very shocked and am still trying to rid myself of their filth. Key is not innocent, much as I have faith in my fellow humans. I cannot find a single instance where he might be right; sorry !!

          And I don’t believe that he is embarrassed in any way .. he doers not have integrity to feel it.
41. yeshe 41

    18 August 2014 at 5:31 pm

    http://www.medialawjournal.co.nz/?p=635

    by Steven Price, Nicky Hager’s lawyer. Great read.
42. Chooky 42

    18 August 2014 at 5:49 pm

    ‘How @whaledump might destroy the popular vote for National’

    By Martyn Bradbury / August 18, 2014

    “National are in meltdown, they just don’t know it yet…

    .
    – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/08/18/how-whaledump-might-destroy-the-popular-vote-for-national/#sthash.YQ900WKe.dpuf
    • joe90 42.1

      18 August 2014 at 6:52 pm

      Rattled and closing out with a wee wobble of the voice.

      http://www.3news.co.nz/Full-interview-Judith-Collins-on-Aaron-Bhatnagar/tabid/1607/articleID/357338/Default.aspx
      • outofbed 42.1.1

        18 August 2014 at 7:23 pm

        amazing interview
        look at her face when he first mentions Aaron Bhatnagar
        • yeshe 42.1.1.1

          18 August 2014 at 8:09 pm

          yes .. Collins did all the classic rapid eye movements of the proven caught-out liar .. smells of fear almost !
43. karol 43

    18 August 2014 at 6:30 pm

    Where have all the right wing diverters, and distractors gone?
    • wyndham 43.1

      18 August 2014 at 6:39 pm

      Yes karol. Especially the diverter extradinaire – – – Steven Joyce ?
    • The Al1en 43.2

      18 August 2014 at 6:39 pm

      Waiting for cam to tell them it aint so, as they sob into their warm moet.
44. Paul 44

    18 August 2014 at 6:42 pm

    “At the end of the day.”……..
    • gsays 44.1

      18 August 2014 at 8:56 pm

      yes.. what is with ” …at the end of the day…”?

      is it a deliberate distraction or a meddled mind trying to stick to a script.

      a tactic I used as a young fella in the military was during a barrack inspection I would have something minor or trivial wrong eg crooked beret. this would attract attention, often away from a more serious shortcoming.

      kinda like pointing away and saying “look! a baby wolf”
      • felix 44.1.1

        18 August 2014 at 10:30 pm

        haha I’ve used the same trick on building inspectors before. There’s a certain breed of authoritarian who won’t be happy until they’ve picked you up on something, so you’re best to throw them a small bone.

        End of the day? Could it be a subconscious acknowledgement that the clock is running out?
        • Colonial Viper 44.1.1.1

          19 August 2014 at 12:50 am

          buying time, buying a breathing space, not wanting to deal with the turmoil of the here and now.
      • karol 44.1.2

        18 August 2014 at 10:49 pm

        I think “end of the day” is a bit of a stalling tactic. It is similar to “let’s take a step back”. It is aimed at giving Key time to take a breath and regain his composure, and regain control of the interview.

        I noticed in that RNZ interview I transcribed today: the “end of the day” kept being repeated about the time Key’s voiced squeaked, as he tried to defend Collins – that squeak is a sign that he’s physically feeling under extreme pressure.
        • felix 44.1.2.1

          18 August 2014 at 11:01 pm

          Remember when they used to just literally go “Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahh” until they thought of something?

          Annoying, but more honest than this post-modern “as long as it sound like words” nonsense.
45. yeshe 45

    18 August 2014 at 10:13 pm

    Just read on Bomber’s site that at this end of the day brought a new post at whaledump of a Carpenters’ album cover .. Close To You. And the first track is We’ve Only Just Begun !

    All this and humour too ? Love it and making more popcorn ….
46. Mark 46

    18 August 2014 at 10:25 pm

    Dirty Politics – 11,000 sold and orders still coming at a great rate according to the bookshops. Not going away any time soon.
    • felix 46.1

      18 August 2014 at 10:34 pm

      That’s weird, little Matty Hooten said on rnz this morning that there were only 4000 printed.

      He wouldn’t just make up blatant lies, would he!? Not on the radio, surely!!
47. yeshe 47

    18 August 2014 at 10:42 pm

    @tracey .. you asked earlier about any response from Duncan Garner .. it’s here for you and it’s angry and decisive.

    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Duncan-Garner-Dirtiest-election-campaign-ever—and-mud-sticks/tabid/674/articleID/52542/Default.aspx
48. felix 48

    18 August 2014 at 10:50 pm

    Speaking of filthy fucking disgusting pigs, did anyone catch the warning shot Slater fired in his Tel Aviv interview?

    The bit about how mates are supposed to stick by one another?

    I reckon that one was aimed right at the top.
    • Colonial Viper 48.1

      19 August 2014 at 12:44 am

      Yeah these types are all great mates until one of them becomes a serious liability. At which stage they won’t even take your calls.
    • tricledrown 48.2

      19 August 2014 at 4:18 am

      Then the google of Conferences in Tel Aviv came up with a self help psychology self help conference may well be true!
      Lets keep to criticising the behaviour and not the Man !
      The last thing we need is for us to be seen as the bad guys!
49. karol 49

    18 August 2014 at 11:05 pm

    Must read blog post by Nicky Hager’s sister, on Nicky and Dirty Politics:

    …
    I don’t know anyone who is more ethical than Nicky (god knows, I wish I was!) He is a deep thinker, with an incredibly sharp mind, and always practices what he preaches. And he is a compulsively thorough researcher and a bloody good writer (a fact it grieves me to see so often overlooked by the writing establishment). And, here’s the most important thing, folks, nothing of importance that he has written has ever ultimately been discredited or disproved. The ignorant spin that he ‘makes things up’ and is a ‘left-wing conspiracy theorist’ could not be further from the truth. People wonder why he gets such extraordinary information leaked to him. The answer is really simple: he’s easy to talk to, honest, respects those he deals with, and he is totally ethical, therefore they can feel confident in him and assured he will protect their confidences. It’s as simple as that. No conspiracy – more likely a relief that there is at least one journalist out there who will take the time to explore issues of national significance and be prepared to put himself on the line to disclose them. Why else would such experts as Stephen Price work with him and Craig Potton be prepared to publish him? Why else would he have such a huge group of loyal and loving friends and supporters? Why else would the world’s journalists (bar NZ) think so highly of him that they invite him to speak at conferences all over the world and award him prizes?

    The slur that he is left wing is hardly a king hit. If left wing means valuing people and the environment more than the god of money, then damn right he is. But he is not a member of any political party and if he goes after the Right more than the Left, then this is because he is a staunch defender of an open and transparent democracy – and the Right need to look into their on hearts to join the dots on that. It didn’t stop him exposing Labour’s GE games in The Seeds of Distrust and derailing their election campaign.
    […]
    What truly disturbs me is the part so-called ‘mainstream’ media have played in this. The abusive and partisan coverage by people such as Mike Hosking, Paul Henry and co., when dealing with such vitally important national issues, is a disgrace to journalism – and any decent journalist should be up in arms (and vocally so.) They should stop asking patsy questions and start digging down deep. They should be exposing PR ‘lines’ for what they are, and refusing to let our Prime Minister and his ‘team’ get away with their obfuscation and blocking techniques.

    That said, it has been refreshing to see a little movement on this. It was great to hear Guyon Espiner holding the line on RNZ’s Morning Report this morning (18.8.14) (please, RNZ don’t let Susie near this again!) and The Nation’s excellent Lisa Owen. But too often I hear reporters allowing the agenda to be set by the spin, and not pushing past it. Or else focussing on only some of the issues, and not getting out to the public some of the more insidious and terrifying revelations. …
50. Weepus beard 50

    18 August 2014 at 11:13 pm

    The Whaledump thing is a bit silly.

    Posting memes, etc.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like a good meme but this is a juvenile way to be delivering this important information and opens the door for National to ridicule it.

    If the emails had to be released, which I don’t think they did, wouldn’t it have been better to do it without comment? Once anonymous, always anonymous?

    Better to let the media fight it in a professional way at this stage.
    • Colonial Viper 50.1

      19 August 2014 at 12:40 am

      Nah you can’t fucking trust the mainstream news without leveraging them with alternative media and other alternative channels.
    • yeshe 50.2

      19 August 2014 at 10:09 am

      READ THE BOOK weepu.
51. Hami Shearlie 51

    18 August 2014 at 11:13 pm

    What do we think of the current SIS Boss, Rebecca Kitteridge coming out and backing up Key’s story of the events surrounding releasing OIA information to Slater, the same day it was asked for, in a couple of hours I believe. How would Miss Kitteridge know everything that went on that day, she would only have written documents to go on, what about phone calls and private conversations with the PM or members of his staff? Why is Warren Tucker, the SIS boss at the time, not confirming Key’s story? Apparently, from what I can work out, he was SIS boss till the end of April this year.
    • Blue 51.1

      19 August 2014 at 12:03 am

      Exactly. Kitteridge’s assurances are not worth jack. She wasn’t even employed by the SIS at the time this was going down. She won’t know anything that isn’t on the official record and if Key used SIS info as a political hit, there won’t be a single document in existence confirming that. It would all be done off the record in private conversations between Key and Tucker.

      Only Tucker can give the assurance that he and only he was behind it. And then he will still be left with the question of how Cameron Slater knew ahead of time that his request was not only being granted, but expedited, and also what it contained.
52. tricledrown 52

    19 August 2014 at 4:21 am

    Key has dug himself a bigger hole!
53. tricledrown 53

    19 August 2014 at 8:11 am

    Phil Goff should follow up on that as we have seen if the right question Key Collins etc turn that into false allegations conspiracy theory allegation cunning character assassinations

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