Open Mike 18/08/2017

138 comments on “Open Mike 18/08/2017 ”

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1. swordfish 1

   18 August 2017 at 6:26 am

   Comparisons (2008-17)

   Colmar Brunton (Five Weeks out)

   CB Aug 2017 ………. Aug 2014 ……….. Oct 2011 ……….. Oct 2008

   Nat 44 ……………………. 50 ……………………. 56 ……………. 52

   Lab 37 ……………………. 26 ……………………. 30 …………… 33

   NZF 10 …………………..… 5 ……………….………2 ….………..… 2

   Green 4 ……………………11 …………….…….…. 9 ….…….…… 7

   UMR & Newshub Reid Research Comparisons

   https://thestandard.org.nz/two-good-polls-for-labour-and-a-call-to-arms-for-the-greens/#comment-1366124

   https://thestandard.org.nz/it-is-nationals-time-for-the-brown-trousers/
   • Stephen Doyle 1.1

     18 August 2017 at 8:53 am

     If National continues to trend down, and Labour up, the Greens rally to 9ish, who needs Winston?
2. Gruntie 2

   18 August 2017 at 6:33 am

   What is the undecided %
   • Ed 2.1

     18 August 2017 at 6:37 am

     13% I think ( down from 20%)
3. swordfish 3

   18 August 2017 at 6:47 am

   Comparisons (2008-17)

   Colmar Brunton (Five Weeks out)

   CB Aug 2017 ………. Aug 2014 ……….. Oct 2011 ……….. Oct 2008

   English 30 ………………Key 45 ……………Key 56 ……………. Key 41

   Ardern 30 ………… Cunliffe 10 …………Goff 12 ……….….•Clark 31
4. Gavin 4

   18 August 2017 at 6:57 am

   Great ideas. But I hope Marama knows about the rules on treating.

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   

   [seeing as how there was literally nothing in the post suggesting that Davidson was treating, your comment looks like concern trolling. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here but suggest more care in future. – weka]
   • Carolyn_nth 4.1

     18 August 2017 at 8:11 am

     I see no suggestion that Marama was offering food or drink to people while encouraging people to vote. The post makes no mention of it.

     I know Auckland Action Against Poverty offer food when providing benefit advocacy outside W&I offices. So maybe that is where the reference to food and drink came from in the post.
     • Molly 4.1.1

       18 August 2017 at 1:47 pm

       Offering food and drink is a normal part of Maaori culture. I’m sure that the Green Party are aware of both the culture and the rules, and have their MP’s act in accordance with both. I’d be very surprised if that was not the case.
5. ScottGN 5

   18 August 2017 at 7:03 am

   Radio NZ has updated their Poll of Polls to include the latest Colmar Brunton.

   National 43.7
   Labour 35.5
   NZ First 9.1
   Greens 6.9
   TOP 2.4
   Māori Party 1.3
   ACT 0.5

   Almost at the end of the article is an intriguing snippet of info; Curia, who poll for the National Party have stopped providing data to Colin James for this poll.

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/337443/ardern-turns-the-worm-but-green-losses-threaten-left
   • Devo 5.1

     18 August 2017 at 8:05 am

     That is very interesting about Curia not supplying polling data. Could possibly have National even lower than the recent TV polls and don’t want to bring their average down further.
     • ScottGN 5.1.1

       18 August 2017 at 8:09 am

       It also ties in with a tweet from Hooten, reported here a few days ago, saying that National’s campaign manager Steven Joyce hadn’t updated his caucus on their internal polling from Curia last Tuesday because, apparently, ‘the data was incomplete’.
       • The decrypter 5.1.1.1

         18 August 2017 at 8:17 am

         “The Jacindaroller” takes no prisoners
       • Bearded Git 5.1.1.2

         18 August 2017 at 9:25 am

         Agreed Scott and Devo. Very odd that a party that has trumpeted the polls for the last 9 years is now shutting them down.

         If Curia is showing the Nats at 41-42% they will not want that out there. This is perfectly feasible given Colmar Brunton has them at 44% and Swordfish has demonstrated CB’s pro-National bias above.
         • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.2.1

           18 August 2017 at 12:54 pm

           To get them panicking this much it must show a drop bigger than just to 41-42%. IMO, They’re probably looking at sub 40% and they know damn well that they won’t be in government with that no matter how many seats that they try to give away to get over-hang seats (Wonder if their polling is telling them that giving away seats isn’t working).

           And polls lead via the Bandwagon Effect. If the polls show people leaving National in droves more people will leave.
       • swordfish 5.1.1.3

         18 August 2017 at 2:26 pm

         Yep

         Hoots on‏ Twitter (50 mins ago)
         @MatthewHootonNZ

         It seems @stevenljoyce is VERY keen on the latest @NZNationalParty internal polling not leaking, Not given to caucus. Now not to @radionz.
   • Psycho Milt 5.2

     18 August 2017 at 8:42 am

     James refers to “the faction-ridden Greens.” Nice, isn’t it – two MPs quit over a dispute with the leadership, rest of the caucus says “Don’t let the door smack your arse on the way out,” and to Colin James that means the party’s “faction-ridden.” National and Labour successfully keep a lid on the constant devious plotting and back-stabbing, and to Colin James there’s no factions to see here folks, what shining examples of unity these two parties offer! I thought he was supposed to be some kind of expert at this stuff?
     • Ad 5.2.1

       18 August 2017 at 9:23 am

       Nothing’s changed,
       no one’s hurt,
       there’s no problem, and
       it’s someone else’s fault.

       Every Green supporter needs to support Shaw like their very political survival is at stake. Because it is.
       • Psycho Milt 5.2.1.1

         18 August 2017 at 9:52 am

         I’m aware that the Green Party has a big problem and is effectively in a fight for its survival. Its senior MPs are saying the same thing in public, albeit more diplomatically worded. However, I’m also aware that conservatives and the mainstream media are extremely hostile to left-wing parties, and might occasionally point out examples of it in comments.
     • JanM 5.2.2

       18 August 2017 at 12:06 pm

       Although Colin James has always leant towards the right, he used to be one of the very few journalists who could be trusted to put his brain into gear before going into print – oh dear!
       • Sumsuch 5.2.2.1

         21 August 2017 at 10:48 pm

         I respect Colin James for mentioning reality and trying to explain it in the lights of NZ. If he learnt anything from America you just let the rich have their way. Where it falls down. Long live us, even Colin.
     • Tracey 5.2.3

       18 August 2017 at 12:36 pm

       Well said. In fact if it had been nats they would have said of the 2 dissenters treatment. ” dealth with decisively”
6. Phil 6

   18 August 2017 at 7:42 am

   I personally are hopeful the Greens stay below 5%. Labour governing without them is more palatable to me. My biggest concern is Winston pushing the untried Labour leadership around. Overall I’m very happy with the poll results.
   • Carolyn_nth 6.1

     18 August 2017 at 8:22 am

     What a shame you don’t want any concerted action on the enviroment, climate or poverty and our social security system.

     For me these are pressing issues that, for NZ’s future, need to be acted on ASAP.

     I also do not like the idea of Shane Jones being involved in any future NZ government – not at all. Anti-Green. Pro-big bizniz.
     • Phil 6.1.1

       18 August 2017 at 9:05 am

       I do want action on the environment. The Greens went off environmental issues and more in to social issues which is what Labour stands for. I don’t think the answer to NZ’s poverty is to throw more money at beneficiaries which was the message Turei was sending. On Shane Jones I can take or leave him. He doesn’t offend ne as much as Turei did.
       • KJT 6.1.1.1

         18 August 2017 at 9:21 am

         So. You want “action on the environment” but you want the poor to pay for it.

         Turei doesn’t offend me. It was a brave stand. Self righteous twits who are offended by having to face up to the poverty in New Zealand, do.
         • Phil 6.1.1.1.1

           18 August 2017 at 9:39 am

           I’m not sure where it was stated that the poor had to pay for it?

           On Turei, I am over the moon she will be gone from NZ politics. NZ is better off without having that lying fraudster in office. Only a blind twit wouldn’t be able to see that.
           • KJT 6.1.1.1.1.1

             18 August 2017 at 9:41 am

             Not good at self reflection are you.
             • Kevin …

               18 August 2017 at 9:46 am

               What about the other lying fraudsters still there. Happy with them?

               Edit: Not too you KJT but Phil above.
               • KJT …

                 18 August 2017 at 9:53 am

                 Metiria told the truth about being on welfare. That is what upsets the Phil’s.

                 Being confronted with your own hypocrisy and meanness can’t be pleasant.
                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   18 August 2017 at 1:04 pm

                   +111
             • Tracey …

               18 August 2017 at 1:28 pm

               Well said
       • Carolyn_nth 6.1.1.2

         18 August 2017 at 9:50 am

         “throw money at”. You really need to stop getting your lines from right wing spin machines.

         And that’s extremely offensive to beneficiaries. Turei’s message included the one about not demonising beneficiaries, and the one about the need to change the punitive W&I culture. Clearly you want to keep beneficaries marginalised as as if they are unfortunates in the corner you throw pennies to.
         • KJT 6.1.1.2.1

           18 August 2017 at 9:54 am

           +1
       • Psycho Milt 6.1.1.3

         18 August 2017 at 9:55 am

         The Greens went off environmental issues and more in to social issues which is what Labour stands for.

         You left out the important, meaning-changing word “used” in that sentence, ie it should read “social issues that Labur used to stand for.” When James Shaw says his is the only party taking poverty seriously, he’s correct.
       • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.4

         18 August 2017 at 1:00 pm

         The Greens went off environmental issues and more in to social issues which is what Labour stands for.

         What a load of bollocks.

         But, then, you just seem to be one of these people who want people to fit into nice, tidy little boxes.

         The Greens have always covered social issues. Labour, not so much even when it was a labour party and not just another pro business party.

         I don’t think the answer to NZ’s poverty is to throw more money at beneficiaries which was the message Turei was sending.

         That would indicate that you’re not thinking. If beneficiaries can’t afford to live on their incomes now then how else do you suggest we make it so that they can?
         • red-blooded 6.1.1.4.1

           18 August 2017 at 1:28 pm

           Draco, feel free to promote the Greens, but stop trying to undermine Labour. If it’s “just another pro business party”, how come it’s the only one that the sainted Greens are ready to cooperate with and go into coalition with?

           Labour puts people at the heart of all policy. There’s a big focus on strengthening public services and lessoning inequality. There’s also a recognition that NZers value our natural environment. These are not the values of “just another pro business party”.
           • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.4.1.1

             18 August 2017 at 2:24 pm

             Labour puts people at the heart of all policy.

             So, where’s their policy for raising benefits by the amount needed to bring them in line with reality?
             Where’s their policy on cutting back the intrusive and punishing regime of WINZ?

             There’s a big focus on strengthening public services and lessoning inequality.

             Public services, yes. Inequality, no. Nothing they have will cut inequality. It may keep it level rather than increase it but it won’t address it.

             There’s also a recognition that NZers value our natural environment.

             It’s just taken them four decades to get there.

             These are not the values of “just another pro business party”.

             Yes they are because they’re still only see business and rich people as the way forward rather than the dead and that they are.
       • Tracey 6.1.1.5

         18 August 2017 at 1:27 pm

         No they didnt. Media focus went to social justice. Anyone who has gone anywhere near their facebook or website or press relesses would know this. Stop swallowing the media/right memes you are better than that
       • mary_a 6.1.1.6

         18 August 2017 at 7:51 pm

         @ Phil (6.1.1) … History reminds us Shane Jones is a grubby little man! As a senior Labour MP, Jones at taxpayers expense hired porn movies on his parliamentary credit card, for his own debauched gratification in a hotel room, for which he got caught out through recorded credit card receipts!

         Metiria Turei on the other hand, as a struggling single parent, did defraud social welfare during her time on the DPB, to help her and her infant daughter to survive, which she belatedly owned up to and has now paid a heavy price for admitting her past misdemeanour. However, this occurred prior to her becoming an MP.

         Unlike Turei though, Jones lives to see another political day!

         Shane Jones abused his privileges, while in the trusted position of being an MP, a representative of the people of NZ. Personally I find his betrayal of trust, in particular the reason behind it, far more offensive than the past actions of Metiria Turei!
7. Nick 7

   18 August 2017 at 8:23 am

   Very happy with the momentum, hope the Greens steady the ship and natz shed some more. Jacinda has looked great so far. Knock off dunne too.
8. tsmithfield 8

   18 August 2017 at 8:37 am

   The problem for the Greens is that they will struggle to differentiate themselves from Labour now. I predict they will not get over the 5% threshold.

   I actually like the idea of a Green party in parliament. But I would much prefer one that makes Green issues its sole focus (as its name suggests) and is able to work with either Labour or National.

   Others such as John Armstrong have suggested the same:

   https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-armstrong-greens-in-election-no-mans-land-after-metiria-turei-shambles

   They need to reposition themselves in the centre of the political spectrum so that if they have the numbers to be a player in post-election talks on government formation, they have the flexibility to engage in serious negotiations with either Labour or National or both major parties.

   Sadly, the Greens don’t seem to be listening.
   • The Lone Haranguer 8.1

     18 August 2017 at 9:10 am

     While I expect the Greens to be above 5% on election day, I would say that the last two polls that show the Greens collapse are the Nats worse nightmare coming true before their eyes.

     How will they convince their heartland voters to stay away from NZF, if they cant paint a picture the Labour/Greens/NZF ugly coalition of equals.

     A Labour/NZF coalition with the Greens on the outside looking in would present as a stable alternative.

     And thats the last thing that the Nats would want.
     • KJT 8.1.1

       18 August 2017 at 9:34 am

       People don’t want stability, they want change.

       Which is why the enthusiasm for a different Labour.

       Meanwhile National is rowing, efficiently, briskly and in authoritarian unison towards third world status. Just like the USA, they admire.
       • The Lone Haranguer 8.1.1.1

         18 August 2017 at 9:50 am

         But the Nats dont want change – and their sole electoral message is vote for stability. Nat voters like stability and the soft side of their voters may well like a Labour/NZF stability.

         Now the world may want change Brexit/Trump/Macron style but I do note that theres a fair number in both the UK and the USA who may not be completely sold on the change they voted for.
         • KJT 8.1.1.1.1

           18 August 2017 at 9:57 am

           No. The world wants Corbyn or Sanders.

           But the establishment tried to ensure they were not given that choice.
           • The Lone Haranguer 8.1.1.1.1.1

             18 August 2017 at 10:48 am

             KJT,

             Enthusiasm for a different Labour – as in different policies or as in a different face on the billboards?

             Despite the MoU, it seems that both the Greens and Labour are not averse to eating the other for the sole benefit of their own party’s betterment.
             • KJT …

               18 August 2017 at 5:41 pm

               Parties do not. Own, voters.
               The MOU said nothing against Labour/Greens putting their own policies out there.

               A bigger Green presence in Government means more concern for people and the environment. Something the right wing in both Labour and NACT are terrified of.

               Fortunately Labour rank and file are happy to work with the Greens, as we have common goals.
   • marty mars 8.2

     18 August 2017 at 9:20 am

     yeah we get it – right wingers want an environmental party to make them feel better – so what. The day the Greens take advice from right wingers is the day they go and that day ain’t coming – so take your troll tears and piss off tsm.
     • Ad 8.2.1

       18 August 2017 at 9:27 am

       Not the moment to burn off green-swinging supporters.

       They need every single vote they can get back.
       • KJT 8.2.1.1

         18 August 2017 at 9:35 am

         Won’t get them back by listening to you.
         • marty mars 8.2.1.1.1

           18 August 2017 at 9:40 am

           + 1 exactly – ffs green swinging supporters??? – the Greens will get there in style without your help, support or advice thanks ad and also to any right wingers who want to offer tears of support lol

           this is the advice I listen to – Sue Bradford on fbook

           “It’s critical that the Greens don’t get spooked by this week’s poll. There is a bedrock base of support built on decades of work on ecological & social justice issues, the latter strengthened by the welfare policy release so overshadowed by subsequent events. James Shaw can’t carry this alone & I’m hoping that the newer MPs & candidates suddenly thrust to the fore will step up now, beyond style to energetic substance.”
           • Karen 8.2.1.1.1.1

             18 August 2017 at 10:22 am

             Sue said the same on Morning Report. She was on with political scientist Bronwyn Hayward who pointed out that single polls are not significant in themselves and the poll of polls, which shows the Greens at 6.9%, is a better indication of their current position.

             I found it interesting that David Farrar’s polling company Curia refused to supply their latest poll to RNZ. I suspect the reason is that it showed the Nats in a much lower position, and possibly also showed the Greens higher than the 4.3% in CB. James Shaw said their internal polling had the Greens higher.

             I am sure that the Greens will bounce back, maybe not up to 15%, but considerably higher than 4%. Of course Hooton et al are doing their best to suggest a vote for the Greens is a wasted vote, but I think this will actually give the Greens a boost. Nobody on the left wants to lose the Greens.
             • Carolyn_nth …

               18 August 2017 at 10:28 am

               On social media and blogs I am seeing some support swinging behind the GP from people who may otherwise have voted Labour or some other party. They don’t want a Labour-led government too dependent on NZ First, and without support from the GP.
               • Peter …

                 18 August 2017 at 1:09 pm

                 I have never voted green in my life. That is about to change.
                 • Carolyn_nth …

                   18 August 2017 at 1:12 pm

                   🙂
                   Onya!
                 • mary_a …

                   18 August 2017 at 8:07 pm

                   Great to hear Peter 🙂
       • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1.2

         18 August 2017 at 1:15 pm

         tsm is most definitely not a swing voter. He’s a National Party sycophant.
   • Gabby 8.3

     18 August 2017 at 9:24 am

     They won’t want to chuck away the support of voters who find labour insufficiently socially focused.
   • KJT 8.4

     18 August 2017 at 9:27 am

     Thanks for the, well meaning advice, LOL,

     Sorry. The Greens will continue to disturb your self satisfied middle class life. And rise again in the polls. By challenging the poverty of comprehension, that thinks social and environmental sustainability are not linked.
   • Psycho Milt 8.5

     18 August 2017 at 9:58 am

     Others such as John Armstrong have suggested the same:

     Others such as National supporter and embarrassingly-effusive Key sycophant John Armstrong share your thoughts on the Green Party? Shouldn’t that have alarm bells ringing for you?
     • Tracey 8.5.1

       18 August 2017 at 1:31 pm

       Loving your comments in this thread PM
       • Psycho Milt 8.5.1.1

         18 August 2017 at 1:47 pm

         Thank you. Recent convert to supporting the Green Party, so feeling plenty of enthusiasm for supportive commenting. Of course, me deciding to support them was swiftly followed by them tanking in the polls, but correlation != causation…
         • Tracey 8.5.1.1.1

           18 August 2017 at 1:52 pm

           LOL I had noticed the change. I am a more firmed up GP supporter since the Turei massacre.
   • You_Fool 8.6

     18 August 2017 at 10:52 am

     How do you propose that the Greens work with National, when National are actively trying to opening up mining on conservation land, expanding oil and gas exploration and refuse to do anything meaningful on water quality and air emissions?

     It seems to me that if people want the Greens to work with National, they need National to change not the Greens. National are an anti-green party, and the concept of a “blue-green” is an oxymoron.

     On the other side, when will you advocate for Act to start being a liberal party and start to look like they can work with Labour, this way they can start to grow their vote to over 5%.
     • Draco T Bastard 8.6.1

       18 August 2017 at 1:14 pm

       +111
   • Draco T Bastard 8.7

     18 August 2017 at 1:06 pm

     But I would much prefer one that makes Green issues its sole focus (as its name suggests) and is able to work with either Labour or National.

     BOLLOCKS

     You just want to be able to sideline them as National and the RWNJs tried last century when they said that the Greens were only a single issue party (which weren’t then either).

     Sadly, the Greens don’t seem to be listening.

     Why would they listen to people out to destroy them?
   • Tracey 8.8

     18 August 2017 at 1:29 pm

     Given you arent voting for them or a member it isnt relevant what you want them to be.
   • Stuart Munro 8.9

     18 August 2017 at 1:38 pm

     Of course when you quote a toxic far right flake like John Armstrong – who bayed for Cunliffe’s blood for no reason at all – you destroy whatever flimsy shreds of credibility your argument might otherwise have mustered.

     The Greens have always been prepared to work with other parties – but with National up to crazy shit like creating a market for fraudulent carbon credits, filling Lake Forsythe with poo, and poisoning the whole goddamn country with 1080, the Greens simply cannot accommodate them.
   • Sumsuch 8.10

     21 August 2017 at 11:04 pm

     Go fritter yourself in the golden blood of non-senescence where the rich have commonality with finitude.
9. eco Maori/kiwi 9

   18 August 2017 at 8:51 am

   Here are a couple of good movies that enlighten me now I wont tell you what to look for as that would be cheating.

   The real Rocknrola main actors Tom Hardy and Gerard Butler.

   Good Cop Bad Cop Woody Harrelson Matthew Mc Conaughey.

   Some people I aspire to

   1 Tim Berners Lee

   2 Julian Assange

   3 Elon Musk

   4 Michael Lawley Founder of ecoinnovation NZ he invented the smart drive hydro turbine.
   His advice go solar as it less maintenance and solar is cheap to build a DIY system

   5 Bernie Sanders

   6 Noam Chomsky

   7 Obama now Noam bashes Obama abit But in Politic one has to give and take to
   get your Ideal policy’s into law especially when you do not have the number of
   seats in your own party to change make laws
10. eco Maori/kiwi 10

    18 August 2017 at 9:06 am

    Apirana Ngata is the my number one person I aspire to
    • One Two 10.1

      18 August 2017 at 9:26 am

      Aspiring to be ones own self…

      Surpasses aspiring to mimic others, 100% of the time…
      • timbeau 10.1.1

        18 August 2017 at 10:11 am

        But if you had to aspire to be anyone, Apirana Ngata would be pretty hard to beat… Greatest New Zealander ever??
      • McFlock 10.1.2

        18 August 2017 at 1:01 pm

        “A formless void is only possible in existential human observation”
        • One Two 10.1.2.1

          18 August 2017 at 2:41 pm

          Hello, McFlock

          Was that a comment from Andre which you pasted?

          Either way, it’s unoriginal..

          Stop copying others, and maybe you can understand the comment I made..

          Or perhaps your response was triggered because you felt a sense of shame, at being unoriginal..

          And decided to lash out!
          • McFlock 10.1.2.1.1

            18 August 2017 at 3:07 pm

            “Your heart self interacts with an abundance of potentiality”
    • weka 10.2

      18 August 2017 at 11:17 am

      Can you tell us more about Apirana Ngata?
      • eco Maori/kiwi 10.2.1

        18 August 2017 at 1:53 pm

        Apirana Ngata yes I have read his book its is a real good read. He is the one of the main people to help persevere Maori culture/song.
        Most of the Maraeis in NZ are here because of him and his helpers Tepuia she was a great Woman to
        Most of the Maori trust farms in NZ are because of his influences .
        His favorite past time was recording a lot of ancient Maori Waiata/ songs.
        His Home land of Ngati Porou east coast is a shadow of its former glory.
        The East coast In the end I think he was taken down by the powers that be
        Because his accounting was on little bits of paper so the opposition party used that to discredit him for fraud He was a great man.
        That book was the best gift my mom gave me
        • weka 10.2.1.1

          18 August 2017 at 2:16 pm

          Thanks, so much good Māori history we haven’t been taught.
          • ScottGN 10.2.1.1.1

            18 August 2017 at 3:13 pm

            Weka you do know that’s Sir Apirana Ngata on the fifty dollar bill?
            • weka 10.2.1.1.1.1

              18 August 2017 at 6:12 pm

              Maybe, but it’s pretty rare for me to see a fifty dollar bill.
      • McFlock 10.2.2

        18 August 2017 at 5:48 pm

        His Wikipedia page manages to stay rather sterile while hinting at some very impressive nuances.
11. Bearded Git 11

    18 August 2017 at 9:07 am

    Chris Trotter is on the money today, in particular:

    “This is what Aussie economist, Professor Bill Mitchell, from the University of Newcastle, NSW, said when asked to comment on the rigid fiscal parameters set down in Labour’s and the Greens’ budget rules. He described them as “the height of economic irresponsibility”……. Mitchell went on to argue that, since roughly 1 in 8 New Zealanders are either underemployed or unemployed; a third of our children live in poverty; and we have record levels of household debt ……. the very idea of running a fiscal surplus is, in Mitchell’s own words, “irresponsible in the extreme….the Labour Party are Neoliberal-Lite. They say we’ll do austerity – but we’ll do it fairer…..There’s no such thing as fair austerity when a third of your children are living in poverty.”

    It’s here: http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2017/08/dont-you-dare-jacinda-ardern-dont-you.html

    Jacinda take note, or become a puppet for the steady as it goes (look after the top 10% and forget the homeless and those in poverty) brigade.
    • One Two 11.1

      18 August 2017 at 9:29 am

      Jacinda has ‘no choice’

      Assuming she has a fundamental understanding of ‘money’…which Jacinda might not even have that level…

      The ‘money mirage’ must not be exposed

      Exposure will not be tolerated, and will be swiftly dealt with
      • eco Maori/kiwi 11.1.1

        18 August 2017 at 9:56 am

        money main objective is it is a sham
      • red-blooded 11.1.2

        18 August 2017 at 1:37 pm

        Why would you assume that Ardern is not financially literate? A bit of latent sexism, maybe..?
        • Stuart Munro 11.1.2.1

          18 August 2017 at 2:04 pm

          In the old days Labour were all economically literate and would not have fallen for Douglas’s crap for a moment. The generation that was the product of the decent society however, had no personal understanding either of poverty, or of the dishonest employer narratives used to justify it.

          Cullen at least understood it – whether he took sufficient action is arguable. But the mass of contemporary Labour grew up on the assumption that major socioeconomic matters had been resolved, leaving them free to pursue progressive issues that were important to them. The slew of disastrous socioeconomic indicators shows that the assumption hasn’t held for some time, and that responsible left government is going to have to dig us out of the neo-liberal rut as quickly as possible.

          If we give Ardern the benefit of the doubt we must presume that her administration will address these issues forcefully. But indications are not especially promising – by failing to support Metiria’s anti-poverty position Ardern essentially endorsed the murderous failure that is contemporary social policy.
        • One Two 11.1.2.2

          18 August 2017 at 2:47 pm

          Perhaps pause and consider why, not ONE single politician, doesn’t can’t or won’t talk openly and hosestly about ‘money/debt’..

          Norman mentioned ‘printing’ years back..but that got radio silence..

          SO either…

          1. They don’t understand
          2. They understand but have a ‘gun’ to their head

          Those are the only options..

          The subject was Jacinda Adern..stop degrading yourself looking for what does not exist!
    • Ad 11.2

      18 August 2017 at 10:19 am

      Jacinda doesn’t need advice right now.

      If she wins, she will inherit a strong, narrow economy with low unemployment. Her tasks are pretty obvious.

      Watch for the full Labour manifesto release next Wednesday. All the detail you could wish for.
      • KJT 11.2.1

        18 August 2017 at 10:21 am

        A strong economy.?

        Are you on the same planet?
        • Ad 11.2.1.1

          18 August 2017 at 1:19 pm

          Would you like to go through the industry sectors with me one by one?

          The left currently do not have an economic message to respond to National’s sustained narrative of economic success.

          All the left currently do is tell everyone about how poorly off some people are. Which is useful, but only to a point.

          It’s not enough.
          • crashcart 11.2.1.1.1

            18 August 2017 at 2:30 pm

            I am sure a read an article in just the last couple of days in which they detail how even though the economy is seemingly good real wage increases for anyone not in the top 10% of earners is either flat or negative when inflation is taken into account.

            Whilst businesses are making good profits at the moment this is on the back of poor wages and even poorer social outcomes. So yes if all you want to look at is GDP and trade deficits you can sell it as good. I would imagine most people now are starting to wonder however why this good economy is not reducing the numbers of homeless or the number of children considered to be living in poverty.

            Ad your view is of course a short term one. In the end those people who are on crap wages are the same people that are expected to buy the products that keep our economy turning over. As ability to feed coins into the machine reduces so will the performance of the economy. Of course at that point conservative minded people will blame those same poor people calling them bludgers and claiming that all they need to do is work harder. However as more of them end up under the boot (remember most people aren’t in the 10% that are doing better every year) we will see the support for other options increase.
          • KJT 11.2.1.1.2

            18 August 2017 at 5:50 pm

            Real wages down.
            Terms of trade, down.
            Per capita GDP, down.
            Per capita real incomes, down.
            Borrowings up.
            Poverty, up.
            Growth. Negative without immigration and natural disasters.
            Unemployment. National changed the basis it was counted to hide the real rate.
            Environment. Need we start?
            Health. Per capita funding down.
            Education. Funding cut to pay for idealogical failures.
            Manufacturing, down.

            National has been a failure, even by their own measurements.
      • adam 11.2.2

        18 August 2017 at 10:31 am

        Over 11% unemployment and Ad says we have low unemployment, and a good economy.

        Can I have what ever it is you are smoking, I need a pick me up.
        • red-blooded 11.2.2.1

          18 August 2017 at 1:46 pm

          adam, being “underutilised” isn’t the same as being unemployed. I agree the unemployment rate is higher than 4.9(?)%, with some long-term unemployed not counted in the official figures because they’re not actively seeking work, but if we’re going to criticise the massaging of figures that makes the rate look artificially low, we shouldn’t massage them ourselves, the other way.

          I’m a full time teacher. I have colleagues who work part time (and that might mean an 80% teaching load). They’re not unemployed – they work bloody hard and have longterm, stable jobs – but they may well be counted as “underutilised” as many would welcome fulltime positions if they were available.
          • adam 11.2.2.1.1

            18 August 2017 at 2:42 pm

            Try reading this piece from Frank.

            https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/08/09/msm-catches-up-on-unemployment-stats-rort/

            Or the one One Two put up below.

            As for the spin of underutilised, I’m sure many of a Tory on here would be impressed with your utterance, and be more than happy to add it to their parlor tricks.
      • One Two 11.2.3

        18 August 2017 at 11:35 am

        http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/08/unemployment-bad-news-nz-it-s-much-worse-than-you-think.html#.WYOoQGi5WF0.twitter

        Strong economy…low unemployment

        Not even the MSM believe that!
        • s y d 11.2.3.1

          18 August 2017 at 11:43 am

          The key words might be ‘narrow economy’.
          If you’re operating in that particular economy, it’s haymaking time, if you’re not, well, in the words of Sir John…. “you probably won’t be voting for us anyway”.
          • Ad 11.2.3.1.1

            18 August 2017 at 1:20 pm

            Narrow and still brittle.

            A whole bunch broader and better off than when Labour left office in 2008, but there’s still not an alternative narrative about success.
            • crashcart 11.2.3.1.1.1

              18 August 2017 at 2:34 pm

              Can you point to your source for the economy being broader?

              I often hear people (including my own family) lament the poor books Labour left for NACT in 2008. I seem to remember as the finical crisis bit the current PM praising the previous Labour government for paying down debt as it put us in a strong position to ride the GFC out. Funny how that message has changed so much over a period of 9 years.
            • KJT 11.2.3.1.1.2

              18 August 2017 at 10:30 pm

              Ad is a true believer.
        • Kevin 11.2.3.2

          18 August 2017 at 11:53 am

          Its a joke, you cannot have low unemployment and stagnant wage growth. Doesn’t happen.
12. ScottGN 12

    18 August 2017 at 9:48 am

    Where’s Paula Bennett? Has her star faded so much that Steven Joyce is actually hiding her away? We were told she was going to be a highlight for National on the campaign trail?
    • Psycho Milt 12.1

      18 August 2017 at 10:04 am

      She’s fucked. The fact they didn’t use her against Turei suggests there are similar and possibly worse skeletons in her closet and their opponents will be aware of them. Too risky to have her visible in this campaign.
    • KJT 12.2

      18 August 2017 at 10:05 am

      Hiding. Because no one can survive on welfare for long, without extra help or resources.

      And National knows it.
    • Ad 12.3

      18 August 2017 at 10:23 am

      Bennett is well groomed to take over in October if Bill resigns.

      Pound for pound Ardern and Bennett are policy wonks with oodles of pedigree.

      National have refreshed very well.
      • Anne 12.3.1

        18 August 2017 at 10:30 am

        Bennett a policy wonk? She might produce policy but none of it works. I’m beginning to think KJT @11.2.1 is right. You spend a lot of time visiting another planet.

        Do tell us you’re being sarcastic.
        • Tracey 12.3.1.1

          18 August 2017 at 1:49 pm

          Agree. She said she didnt deliberately mislead winz. I lied but 20 years on I cant say that. Off scot free. Again.
      • marty mars 12.3.2

        18 August 2017 at 10:32 am

        “Bennett are policy wonks with oodles of pedigree”

        lol you are really delusional if you think bennett is a policy wonk
      • KJT 12.3.3

        18 August 2017 at 12:16 pm

        A not very bright apparatchik, promoted because she can regurgitate propaganda and bullshit with a straight face, and are happy to do National’s dirty work.

        Like the most National MP’s.
        • Whispering Kate 12.3.3.1

          18 August 2017 at 12:54 pm

          Ad – What pounds are you going on about – pounds as in sterling or pounds as in weight – if its weight you are comparing a feather with a brick with these two ladies. A better description could have been found here.
        • Ad 12.3.3.2

          18 August 2017 at 1:16 pm

          I’m not saying I like her.

          But she is a very solid performer in the House, and Ardern never so much as laid a finger on her when they opposed each other on Social Welfare portfolios.

          Bennett holds State Services, Women,Tourism, Police, and Climate Change Portfolios, as well as being Deputy Prime Minister and Deputy Leader of the National Party.

          She’s also been across Tourism, Housing, Finance, and a bunch of Select Committees. She also did an Eisenhower Fellowship, which is only awarded to 20 outstanding women leaders at a time.

          She has risen through the ranks of National in fairly quick order as a Minister who is to be reckoned with, takes no prisoners, and delivers their policy.

          The left have spent far too long losing because they underestimated the trust of a huge section of the public who accept that this National leadership is competent, stable leadership.

          Paula Bennett is ready to be top of the pile.
          • crashcart 12.3.3.2.1

            18 August 2017 at 2:42 pm

            She is far too polarising. As said previously I come from a family that is very much in the life long National supports group and even they can’t stand Paula. She is far too abrasive and has shown herself to be a bully.

            If National truly thought of her as a future PM she would not have been so regularly trotted out to do the Bennie bashing when a distraction was needed. She is the next Crusher Collins. Be tough, take the negative press, completely disposable when you need someone to take a fall.

            The accusations in the back ground and what has just happened to MT just give those who are really in line to lead a good reason to shunt her aside when the time comes. Would not be surprised if it is Kiwiblog or WO that swing the axe.
          • Anne 12.3.3.2.2

            18 August 2017 at 3:24 pm

            She might have been “across many portfolios” but I would hazard a guess she knows stuff-all about most of them. Her Climate Change credentials are non existent. She knows nothing about it and understand less…

            What she is good at is bullshitting the public that she knows stuff when she knows nothing. In other words, she’s a fake.
            • KJT 12.3.3.2.2.1

              18 August 2017 at 10:35 pm

              “across many portfolios”.

              I though of something rude here, but I don’t want to denigrate an even older, but more honest profession.
              • Anne …

                18 August 2017 at 10:49 pm

                😀
          • KJT 12.3.3.2.3

            18 August 2017 at 6:21 pm

            Ad. You really do live in a fantasy world.

            Bennett is like so many hatchet men i have seen in corporations.

            A useful idiot to front the destructive policies of management. To be disposed of, when convenient.
13. Glenn 13

    18 August 2017 at 10:13 am

    Here is Paula
    Talking about Bill English and doorways.

    ““One of the main challenges he’s had as Prime Minister is every time he’d go to walk through a door, he said he was so used to always waiting for other people, because that’s just his nature – he’s a gentleman you know, it’s just what you do.

    “Then he said everyone else would wait for him to walk through the door, so as the Minister for Women he came to me and [said], ‘So what do I do?’…

    “I said to him, ‘Walk through the door Bill, no woman will think that you’re being discourteous’.”

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/08/17/43546/nationals-battle-to-move-on-from-john-key
    • Anne 13.1

      18 August 2017 at 10:43 am

      Here is Paula
      Talking about her achievements.

      “If you looked back in 2008, what we were heading into, my God, I was the brand new Minister of Social Development and we were talking about going well into double figures of unemployment, we were talking about literally hundreds of thousands of people going onto the benefit, we were gearing up for the worst of times…

      “I think we’ve done an outstanding job against the odds of where we were and the circumstances that came with us, and most of them are the circumstances of success.”

      Social housing, a particular interest of Bennett’s, was “a mess” before they came in, and has taken time to turn around, she says.

      Yeah Paula B. We were heading into a global financail crisis caused by your neoliberal mentors. Chooses not to mention that.

      Outstanding job? Sells off state and social housing. More homeless people than ever. Fiddles the stats to make it look like unemployment is lower than it is. Throws others off the system altogether.

      Success? A dismal failure who shat on solo mums just because she could!
      • Kevin 13.1.1

        18 August 2017 at 11:02 am

        “…and we were talking about going well into double figures of unemployment, we were talking about literally hundreds of thousands of people going onto the benefit, we were gearing up for the worst of times…”

        —

        Simple solution, classify 1 hour of work as being in employment and hey, presto! Unemployment issue solved. This government shit is soooooo easy.
        • Craig H 13.1.1.1

          18 August 2017 at 6:55 pm

          That happened in the 1980s.
      • dv 13.1.2

        18 August 2017 at 11:08 am

        Fixed unemployment nos. by changing the way it was counted.

        Snap Kevin
14. Tracey 14

    18 August 2017 at 12:34 pm

    Imagine if the time our media devoting to polls was replaced by policy analysis? Tracy Watkins is in a live blog blathwring on about poll ramifications. It is lazy and fuels the gambling/sporting style of voting rather than information. I despair.
15. Robert Guyton 15

    18 August 2017 at 12:48 pm

    The atmosphere on the Right wing blogs is one of resignation; they’re resigned to losing, to having to endure a Jacinda-led Labour Government. They’re hopeful though, of a Green collapse, though their more candid commenters say this won’t happen, no matter how they screw up their eyes, bunch their little fisties and wish really hard for it.
    • Carolyn_nth 15.1

      18 August 2017 at 12:50 pm

      Yep. And as for the hooting one: calling the remaining GP voters addicts, when he has admitted alcohol problems, is not a very good look.
      • Carolyn_nth 15.1.1

        18 August 2017 at 1:15 pm

        And this tweet from Julie Fairey:

        Is there something wrong with being a hippie or a drug addict? One involves being nice to people & planet, the other is a health problem
      • marty mars 15.1.2

        18 August 2017 at 1:26 pm

        yes hooton is pathetic – hollow hooton is irrelevant and he is hating it. Who? who? who?
      • Sans Cle 15.1.3

        18 August 2017 at 1:27 pm

        I do feel sad for Matthew Hooton, as I do for anyone who battles addiction. It must be a terrible affliction. But wtf is he doing using addiction as a derogatory term for GP supporters? POT….KETTLE….BLACK?
        • Tamati Tautuhi 15.1.3.1

          18 August 2017 at 2:42 pm

          Might be experiencing a bit of the Black Dog at the moment ?
          • Sans Cle 15.1.3.1.1

            18 August 2017 at 3:20 pm

            Perhaps! Has he broken his addiction with this site? I don’t see him commenting here anymore (but I have only recently returned here). Is he banned or just disinterested in The Standard?
            • adam 15.1.3.1.1.1

              18 August 2017 at 4:13 pm

              He (hooton) decided to spewed one of his lies on/at lprent. lprent gave him a chance to retract, he doubled down, then lprent banned him for life.

              Atmosphere got a lot cleaner around here after that. We have our tiffs, but the gutter/sewer/cesspool politics of the hooton era, does not appear as much.

              Oh hooton is still into his gutter/sewer/cesspool politics but we just don’t have to see or listen to it, if we choice not to. Personally I chose not to. Trolls and gutter rats are going to go on being what they are, and I don’t need it in my life.

              Which by the way, leads to a major thanks to lprent, in one afternoon you made this site 100% more pleasant. Thank you.
      • Tracey 15.1.4

        18 August 2017 at 1:39 pm

        You expect self awareness from Hooter?
    • Tracey 15.2

      18 August 2017 at 1:40 pm

      There does seem to be a rabid dislike on the Right and in some media quarters. Irrationally so.
16. Patricia 16

    18 August 2017 at 1:43 pm

    I have been told that the reason the young are not registering to vote is because they are not inspired by words but by video clips. So perhaps Labour needs to invest in a number of short animated video clips to attract the young.
    • Patricia 16.1

      19 August 2017 at 2:07 pm

      Further to my comment above. One hundred odd years ago a lot of people could not read or if they could, could not afford to buy papers or books so young people were employed to read to them while they worked. Now a days people, especially those who were not read to when they were young, watch YouTube of Facebook. That is where they get their information from. So if a party wants to get to those unregistered 400,000 people they must use those formats with animated video clips. It is a no brainer.
17. joe90 17

    18 August 2017 at 1:57 pm

    Clever.

    http://www.sirmitchell.com/product/45-enamel-pin
18. ScottGN 18

    18 August 2017 at 2:43 pm

    They’re tumbling like ninepins in Canberra;
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/nick-xenophon-checking-whether-hes-a-british-citizen-in-shock-new-twist-in-citizenship-crisis-20170818-gxyzo2.html
19. Sumsuch 19

    21 August 2017 at 10:54 pm

    Far too many clerks on this site – technicians – where victory for the people is a heart you can’t refuse: fight with 8 limbs.

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