Open Mike 19/04/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 19th, 2018 - 143 comments
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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

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143 comments on “Open Mike 19/04/2018 ”

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  1. Tony Veitch (not etc) 1
    19 April 2018 at 6:58 am

    Could I respectfully draw the moderator’s attention to the verbal violence practised by the commentator Wei on the immigration post yesterday.

    I accept that most of ‘his’ inflammatory comments were made after 11pm, and even moderators need some sleep – but his/her posts should raise red flags in the future – and not PRC ones!

    [So this off-handed inflammatory shit that you’re spouting (about raising PRC flags) is exactly the kind of stuff that kicks things off. I’ve just read the thread in question, and while Wei overstepped the mark with regards one response in particular, any bans would be for the inflammatory comments by Ropata and Tamati Tautuhi. Happens every time Wei comes here – the casual racist bullshit gets flung at him. He responds. He gets banned. Not happening this time around. There are a few people need to take a look at themselves and their attitudes] – Bill

    • James 1.1
      19 April 2018 at 7:11 am

      Funny – I read the thread and found ropata and Janet the most racist commenters.

      • Carolyn_Nth 1.1.1
        19 April 2018 at 7:36 am

        Well, the small bit I read of the discussion did look a bit like there was adouble standard, and misunderstanding of the power of white privileger: i.e. Wei was critical of the naming and explaining of white privilege with respect to the treatment of white Sth African immigrants, while tending to denigrate Chinese immigrants.

        Verbal violence though is not on, IMO, whatever the views.

      • Keepcalmcarryon 1.1.2
        19 April 2018 at 8:27 am

        Not surprised James, you being a major fan of the Chinese owned National party here to sell us overseas.

        • James 1.1.2.1
          19 April 2018 at 9:33 am

          Nothing to do with political leanings (but hey good on you for bringing racism into it – you must be very proud).

          Simply reading the comments and taking them at face value.

      • Keepcalmcarryon 1.1.3
        19 April 2018 at 8:39 am

        Actually Wei calling for a massacre of white South African “ crackers” has to be his ticket out of here. If you don’t find his behaviour deeply disturbing there’s something wrong with you.

        • James 1.1.3.1
          19 April 2018 at 9:28 am

          It “has to be his ticket out of here” huh?

          How about we let the people involved make that decision – Im pretty sure we don’t get to demand anything.

          • Keepcalmcarryon 1.1.3.1.1
            19 April 2018 at 9:34 am

            I notice still no condemnation of that blatant violent racism from you James.

        • greywarshark 1.1.3.2
          19 April 2018 at 3:28 pm

          Why don’t you use a system similar to that used by insurance companies when there are two parties claiming against each other from an incident. It’s called knock-for-knock.

          . The justification for the use of the knock for knock system is that it would be expensive and practically difficult to adopt a “fault based” approach to liability in …
          http://www.mondaq.com/x/555144/Insurance/Knock+for+Knock+Liability+Provisions

          Why not take both parties out of the post for an hour? Let others get on with debating their own ideas and when the others settled down they would have learned something; either how to explain themselves better, or that they were majorly wrong. Just a bit of time out without playing the heavy-handed parent would help to give this present blog an adult-centred approach with democratic room for thinking citizens to have a say.

      • Tony Veitch (not etc) 1.1.4
        19 April 2018 at 9:39 am

        Well, I wasn’t commenting on the content of the posts, just the invective hurled by Wei at Ropata. ‘Wei’ over the top, in my opinion!

        • James 1.1.4.1
          19 April 2018 at 10:34 am

          Bill made his comments above – I’m keeping out of this from here.

          • joe90 1.1.4.1.1
            19 April 2018 at 10:41 am

            Had a look at his/her posts and the baiting and language is damn near identical to the head troll’s over at Farrar’s place.

        • mauī 1.1.4.2
          19 April 2018 at 10:39 am

          Calling another commenter a piece of s*** is ok and describing an assault on a commenter is ok… and in response Ropata was very restrained I have to say.

          But making a joke referencing another post and bearing no malice whatsoever is moderation worthy. Sorry Bill, you’ve got things wrong here.

          • red-blooded 1.1.4.2.1
            19 April 2018 at 12:25 pm

            I’m going to disagree with you on this one, mauī.

            I don’t agree on all Bill’s moderation decisions, but I think he’s right to point out the Wei was trying to speak up against implicit racism and that people weren’t ready to re-examine their own comments or the bias they were exhibiting. Yes, he/she got angry and (in the end) abusive, but context is important and in this case I think it possible to understand Wei’s frustration.

    • Barfly 1.2
      19 April 2018 at 12:31 pm

      Bill

      You are a moderator you make decisions – I hope you at least ask Wei to done it down

      “He is a lying piece of shit
      A dumb cunt incapable of a single shred of logical thought
      Fuck you are low IQ.
      I’m talking about those racist white cracker Boers who can’t stand black rule and come here bringing their racist ways. Fuck you are a twit
      A filthy Uncle Tom such as Ropata
      Personally I hope the South African government seals off the borders and then carry out its land expropriation without compensation. Let those Boers scurry around like the rats they are with nowhere to go.
      Hopefully we will see a massacre of those racist Boers
      If that does happen I hope the NZ navy machine guns them in the water before they get their white asses to the North Shore – -how about it eh????”

      This seems a “bit rough” to say the least

      I know CV got a one year ban and I thought he was baited into that and what CV was banned for seems to me to be very small potatoes compared to Wei’s outbursts.

      I understand moderator’s work is generally thankless and under appreciated and I apologise if it seems I am being overly critical

      • swordfish 1.2.1
        19 April 2018 at 11:02 pm

        I know CV got a one year ban and I thought he was baited into that and what CV was banned for seems to me to be very small potatoes compared to Wei’s outbursts.

        Yep.

      • Wei 1.2.2
        19 April 2018 at 11:30 pm

        I agree that some of my comments were out of line. However the vicious racist rhetoric of people such as Ropata is far worse than anything I wrote. I appreciate the moderator’s nuanced approach.

        That message board on immigration would have done an ‘Alt Right’ website proud, and it is only in recent years since Labour decided to jump on the populist bandwagon, that the vicious racist underbelly of the NZ left has emerged, in a truly unabashed sense.

        If that does happen I hope the NZ navy machine guns them in the water before they get their white asses to the North Shore – -how about it eh????”

        Of course that comment was to bait other commenters, and not a reflection of how I feel – but it is the secret attitude of many Westerners when it comes to black and brown refugees and migrants, consider Katie Hopkins who enjoys huge popularity in the UK “Rescue boats? I’d use gunships to stop migrants”.

        I placed the same views within a different racial context to get a rise out of the openly racist commentators that infest the webosphere of the New Zealand left. The fact is the Australia and New Zealand left was largely founded on vicious anti-Chinese racism, was suppressed for a long time, but is now rearing its ugly head as the economic ascendancy of China, and other non-white powers around the world give rise to white racial and economic angst.

        • Stuart Munro 1.2.2.1
          19 April 2018 at 11:58 pm

          You were provocative.

          I’ve worked in China – you don’t have a leg to stand on about racism.

          “The fact is the Australia and New Zealand left was largely founded on vicious anti-Chinese racism.” (citation required)

          The truth is that you represent a vocal and unproductive minority whose destructive speculation long since eclipsed their positive contribution. NZ infrastructure is stretched and there has been a degree of political capture, whereby people paid and sworn to represent NZers represent foreign interests instead. This is undergoing a minor correction.

          It’s not “white racial and economic angst” as these assimilation issues are not limited to Caucasian populations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1998_riots_of_Indonesia

          Some migrants are unconcerned by the damage they do to their host society until the inequality precipitates violence. That’s not the NZ way. If it’s your way, go away.

          • Wei 1.2.2.1.1
            20 April 2018 at 12:30 am

            “I’ve worked in China – you don’t have a leg to stand on about racism.”

            Agree. Chinese tend to put whites on a pedestal. However with increasing economic power of China and the rise of her standing in the world, that is undergoing a slightly more than ‘minor correction’

            “you represent a vocal and unproductive minority”

            Vocal? Chinese are quite underrepresented I think when it comes to the New Zealand political scene (and I’m not blaming racism for that)

            ‘Unproductive’? Asian employment rates are virtually identical to European employment rates. Perhaps you have some data that they are employed in ‘unproductive’ industries compared with European New Zealanders?
            However I doubt it. The engineering schools throughout the country are dominated now by Indians and Chinese, and most of them find employment in extremely productive fields.

            “NZ infrastructure is stretched” True. But does a Chinese migrant stretch it anymore than an English or South African migrant?

            “Some migrants are unconcerned by the damage they do to their host society until the inequality precipitates violence.”
            Do you have some information that NZ Asians, or Chinese in particular are that much more wealthy on average than other New Zealanders?

            “That’s not the NZ way. If it’s your way, go away.”

            The NZ (Anglo Saxon) way is to steal the wealth of Asians and Africans. Its been that way for centuries. When the Chinese did not want to trade your people invaded and looted the place. You did it to India, you did it to the Africans, and you did it to the indigenous people of this country. The Anglo Saxon tribe are the greediest and most rapacious bunch of motherfuckers that ever existed on the face of the earth, but the day of political, economic, and even military reckoning is fast approaching!

            • Stuart Munro 1.2.2.1.1.1
              20 April 2018 at 12:58 am

              “Some migrants are unconcerned by the damage they do to their host society until the inequality precipitates violence.”
              “Do you have some information that NZ Asians, or Chinese in particular are that much more wealthy on average than other New Zealanders?”

              This is a more general critique than simply Asia, and wealth is not the only criterion for sociopathy, though it often allows it greater scope for expression.

              A word that has been sanitized in modern usage is entrepreneur, but an entrepreneur is not a technological rainmaker of the Hollywood variety. Literally an entrepreneur is someone who comes in and takes – a colonist or planter in 18th or 19th century terms, which is when the word was coined.

              Coming in and taking is a disruptive activity. It causes changes to the host economy. The presence of cashed up Boer farmers for instance, inflates the price of prime dairy country beyond the means of the poorly paid farm workers who a generation before would in the fullness of time have come into possession of the land as the owner’s physical capacity declined. This in term obliges the farm worker to seek some other profession, because the culminating reward of a lifetime of poorly paid strenuous work in all weathers is taken off the table.

              “The NZ (Anglo Saxon) way is to steal the wealth of Asians and Africans. Its been that way for centuries. When the Chinese did not want to trade your people invaded and looted the place. You did it to India, you did it to the Africans, and you did it to the indigenous people of this country. The Anglo Saxon tribe are the greediest and most rapacious bunch of motherfuckers that ever existed on the face of the earth, but the day of political, economic, and even military reckoning is fast approaching!”

              This is just flame bait. You’re probably just an asshole looking for racist quotes to circulate among some far-right coterie. If this is your starting position you’re going to meet with a great deal of rejection.

              • Wei …
                20 April 2018 at 1:26 am

                “This is a more general critique than simply Asia, and wealth is not the only criterion for sociopathy, though it often allows it greater scope for expression. “

                Hang on – your original comment was about inequality precipitating violence – against Chinese. Walking things back now eh?

                “The presence of cashed up Boer farmers for instance, inflates the price….”

                Attempt to appear fair and balanced after your racist diatribe against Chinese. Well done.

                “This is just flame bait. You’re probably just an asshole looking for racist quotes to circulate among some far-right coterie. “

                WTF?

                This is after you accused me of representing “a vocal and unproductive minority whose destructive speculation long since eclipsed their positive contribution.”

                “you’re going to meet with a great deal of rejection”
                hahahhahahahahahahah…..I think I already have for some time

                • Stuart Munro …
                  20 April 2018 at 1:41 am

                  You are merely trying to raise racist bogies to deflect from the simple truth that there are negative consequences to immigration.

                  “Your racist diatribe against Chinese”

                  It wasn’t a racist diatribe Wei – but yours was.

                  You seem to have a great desire to be hated – don’t punish yourself, get help. https://www.mentalhealth.org.nz/get-help/in-crisis/helplines/

                  • Wei …
                    20 April 2018 at 2:04 am

                    According to Stuart, I’m a member of a “a vocal and unproductive minority whose destructive speculation long since eclipsed their positive contribution.”

                    That goes well beyond a reasoned debate on the consequences of immigration.

                    Then he mutters darkly about possible violence against Chinese because of the inequality they bring – without of course providing any evidence that Chinese are inordinately wealthy relative to other groups.

                    • Stuart Munro …
                      20 April 2018 at 10:26 am

                      You are part of a vocal and unproductive minority.

                      If you think the influence of Asian property speculation has gone unnoticed in NZ you’d better think again.

                      The argument is not that immigrant Chinese are inordinately wealthy – though you clearly want to beat that line up for a politics of envy attack. Immigration requires that they have capital assets of some description, and the differences in Asian banking and family finance structures have enabled significant numbers of them to enter the property market here. As in Australia and Canada this has had undesirable inflationary effects on the property market.

                      It is not the wealth but the negative consequences they brought that triggered the violence against them in Indonesia – albeit with some connivance from politicians there wishing to displace blame.

                      “without of course providing any evidence”

                      Your little manifesto on Chinese manifest destiny is a vagrant collection of prejudices for which you produced no support. Why should I?

            • Win Win 1.2.2.1.1.2
              20 April 2018 at 8:51 am

              Well argued.

    • Wei 1.3
      19 April 2018 at 11:45 pm

      This is what Ropata wrote in separate posts:

      “Hence we have a plague of horrible driving, mindless stripping of seafood resources, exploitation of employees, and a breakdown of trust…….

      A safer land, where children were free to cycle or walk anywhere. Where you could go fishing and usually catch something decent. Where you could swim in clean rivers. Where we didn’t have hordes of campervans crapping on our loveliest tourist spots. Where you could work on minimum wages and buy a house and start a family.”

      The implicit but obvious meaning is the wonderful New Zealand lifestyle and social trust of the past was lost, mainly because of the arrival of immigrants, particularly Asian ones. He blames most of New Zealand’s social ills on Asians. His rhetoric is redolent of Nazi propaganda against the Jews —and I’m not in the least bit exaggerating.

      Yet when it comes to white South African migrants, he is far more forgiving:
      “At least they are legal citizens unlike a large swathe of new arrivals who snuck in the back door by student visa scams or pretending to start a business. Or even worse those who arrived with suitcases of cash and are now parasitical landlords or communist spies in the National party caucus.”

      Blaming an entire ethnic group for most if not all of a countries problems, but without resorting to explicit racial slurs, is in fact the most vicious, dangerous type of racist rhetoric

      • Stuart Munro 1.3.1
        20 April 2018 at 1:04 am

        “Blaming an entire ethnic group for most if not all of a countries problems, but without resorting to explicit racial slurs, is in fact the most vicious, dangerous type of racist rhetoric.”

        “The NZ (Anglo Saxon) way is to steal the wealth of Asians and Africans. Its been that way for centuries.”

        Hypocrite.

        • Wei 1.3.1.1
          20 April 2018 at 1:28 am

          No. Just told the truth. Learn some history

          • Stuart Munro 1.3.1.1.1
            20 April 2018 at 1:30 am

            Racist hypocrite.

            • greywarshark 1.3.1.1.1.1
              21 April 2018 at 11:21 am

              I count nearly 30 comments on this matter about moderation and dealing with a stirrer and the responses to this. It is fair to let someone have a rant about their own concerns. But why not leave it as a rant of that person, and just put a full stop against your name showing you have read it and are letting it lie as that. Why try to put everybody right according to what each subsequent commenter happens to think should be the norm?

              In the absence of sensible responses to someone being provocative I don’t see why the moderation cannot have a time out operation to stop what seem to develop into flame wars.

              You can have The Standard as a place where political problems and ideas are discussed, mulled over, critiqued, improved.

              Or a place where people pass on any idea that gets into their heads in an emotional outburst. Sitting on the sidelines and criticising or making fun is easy compared to attempting to understand, reason and see how to improve things. And note: that can’t be done in a case where people of any background want to argue and create dissension. If they are totally right, and consider others who raise objections totally wrong, they should not be on this blog. They should have their own site and create their own harmony with like-minds.

              There are many perspectives of thought, but just reactions each day are just safety valves. They don’t add anything lasting likely to hep from and enlighten future policies and political systems.

              • Incognito …
                21 April 2018 at 10:56 pm

                Good evening greywarshark,

                You make some good comments and I know that this something close to your heart as you have made comments along the same vein here in the past (with some consequences too).

                I also know that weka was thinking of doing another post on moderation. [BTW, where is weka?]

                I have my own thoughts on all this (and moderation) but I’ll limit it to the following.

                Ideas, opinions and everything should and are in fact allowed to be discussed here on TS; it is wonderful forum that gives us or anybody who wishes, for that matter, more than enough opportunity and leeway. I don’t take this for granted and highly appreciate the opportunity and see it almost as a privilege.

                I used to think too that replying to comments based on merit & message would safeguard against threads sliding into negative territory. Play the ball, not the man. Don’t should the messenger. Stick to the facts. Rational debate would ensue. Etcetera. I now think that I was (and still am) quite naive.

                In a nutshell: c’est le ton qui fait la chanson (ou la musique).

                In other words, style & substance, form & function, contents & presentation, for example, go hand-in-hand. One cannot separate the what from the how.

                Delivery, context, style are all important in rhetoric, which is the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing. By logical extension, they are equally important in oral or written debate such as here on TS.

                Lastly, a purely rational debate is impossible; we are driven by emotions.

                What do you think? I think I can quite safely assume that not many others will read let alone engage with these comments of ours 😉

  2. Jenny 2
    19 April 2018 at 7:16 am

    If Jacinda Ardern is sincere in her commitment to fighting climate change it is incumbent on her that she agree to repeal the Andarko Amendment.

    “Greenpeace trial going ahead despite Government’s oil exploration ban”
    New Zealand Herald, 17 April, 2018

    Prosecution against two Greenpeace activists who were charged with jumping into the water in front of an oil exploration ship will go ahead despite the Government announcing a ban on offshore oil exploration last week.

    Greenpeace executive director and former politician Russel Norman and volunteer Sara May Howell are set to stand trial in the Napier District Court at the end of this month for their roles in a deep-sea oil protest last year.

    The pair allegedly jumped into the water in front of oil exploration ship Amazon Warrior, off the Wairarapa coast, forcing it to stop its seismic work on April 10.

    They were both charged with interfering in the operation of the 125m ship and pleaded not guilty at a joint appearance last October.

    “No Enemies To Labour’s Left?”
    Bowalley Road, 18 April, 2018

    Labour’s long-standing motto: “No enemies to our left!” references identical strategic thinking…..

    ….It might be objected that the present Labour-led government, by fulsomely fulfilling its promises to its partners – especially the Greens – is demonstrating an entirely new approach to coalition politics. Upon closer inspection, however, it is clear that all Labour has done is convey an impression of environmental activism. As the former Green Party co-leader, Russel Norman – now the NZ Director of Greenpeace – was quick to point out, Labour’s decision to issue no new oil and gas prospecting permits offers no impediment to utilising fully those already granted.

    The greening of the Labour Party may be more apparent than real. Which is why, as he listened to Jacinda Ardern talking-up Labour’s environmental credentials last week, James Shaw’s broad smile may have been misplaced. Did he not realise that, looking out from the stage, he was standing to her left?

    • patricia bremner 2.1
      19 April 2018 at 7:58 am

      Andrew McKenzie should get the whole bill as he caused the problem.
      Typical actions of the powerful using “The System” to do their dirty work.

    • Bearded Git 2.2
      19 April 2018 at 10:22 am

      Trotter is spot on here…the drilling ban is more show than substance….but it does send a message.

      it should have been backed up with subsidies for solar.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1
        19 April 2018 at 10:55 am

        it should have been backed up with subsidies for solar.

        What I’d like to see is the Greens plan to make solar panels here in NZ from NZ resources put into action.

        • Chris T 2.2.1.1
          19 April 2018 at 2:27 pm

          Would be money wasted I think.

          You can already by them online for half the cost direct from Asia.

          There is no way kiwi made could do enough numbers to match

          Understand your thinking though

          • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.1.1
            19 April 2018 at 3:46 pm

            You can already by them online for half the cost direct from Asia.

            Which is actually false economics. There’s no way that anywhere in Asia could produce them any cheaper than a well built factory in NZ.

            There is no way kiwi made could do enough numbers to match

            We don’t have to do the numbers – we just have to get the productivity the same or better and we could do that.

            BTW, it’s actually delusional to think that if a factory produced more it costs less.

        • JohnSelway 2.2.1.2
          19 April 2018 at 3:30 pm

          I’m with you on this Draco.

          We should be preparing everyone in the old world/low tech world of fossil fuel power generation for the next wave of newer technologies. What I would like to see is everyone who may lose their jobs in oil/coal/etc being given training in high tech industry like solar/wind/tidal.

          Shutting down oil exploration should be an incentive to move people to other industries.

          • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.2.1
            19 April 2018 at 3:47 pm

            What I would like to see is everyone who may lose their jobs in oil/coal/etc being given training in high tech industry like solar/wind/tidal.

            QFT

            We shouldn’t be afraid of the change but welcome it.

            • JohnSelway 2.2.1.2.1.1
              19 April 2018 at 4:27 pm

              It’s the only way our technology will progress, by taking advantage of the high tech solutions available to us and power generation is one of those industries ripe for change (in fact – we HAVE to do it).

              I include nuclear in this also

        • funstigator 2.2.1.3
          19 April 2018 at 4:41 pm

          Wouldn’t you also like to see Green MP’s walking their talk and actually having Solar PV?

  3. Sanctuary 3
    19 April 2018 at 7:20 am

    Why do the managerial technocrats of the neoliberal colonised SOE’s so hate Labour governments?

    This is why:

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/19-04-2018/the-side-table-spat-that-got-housing-nz-labelled-petty-and-vindictive-by-phil-twyford/

    Housing NZ chief executive Andrew McKenzie is probably just a good little bureaucrat of the neoliberal enabling class. He must be furious that his cool, rational enforcement of the rules has seen his hand publicaly smacked by a minister in possession of some common sense and compassion.

    • OncewasTim 3.1
      19 April 2018 at 8:42 am

      +100
      The ability to be all butch and punitive now pervades much of the public service senior management.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.2
      19 April 2018 at 11:12 am

      The table didn’t stick out into the common area at all. Anyone with a sense of space would have realised that. The common area is beyond the wall – the one sticking out from in-between each flat to give more privacy.

      To me it sounds like “the manager of her Body Corporate, Stephen Connelly” was simply trying to assert his authority and power. I’d be looking into the relationship between the two. Either way, he obviously should not be in that sort of position with that sort of power as he doesn’t use it responsibly.

  4. Carolyn_Nth 4
    19 April 2018 at 7:25 am

    A Nicky Hager article today on the RNZ site, about the Daphne Project, which has uncovered more NZ links in tax haven/avoidance chains of shell companies, with one key one based in Auckland.

    Hager says that though some loopholes in NZ tax law were changed after the Panama Papers, it’s still possible for foreign interests to use NZ as a tax haven.

    Sources claim this network leads back to the Azerbaijan government, which has been accused of corruption and money laundering.

    The New Zealand companies and trusts were uncovered as part of the Daphne Project, a media investigation involving 46 journalists from 16 countries.
    …
    The Daphne Project has revealed that many of the companies in the Azerbaijan-Pilatus network linked back to an address in Auckland, New Zealand – 112 Parnell Road.

    The address was home to wealth management company Denton Morrell. The company’s director, Matthew James Butterfield, is described in an online profile as a specialist in “ultra-high net worth clients” and in December 2016 it was mentioned in news stories about allegations that British football club manager Jose Mourinho hid millions of pounds from tax authorities in tax havens.

    • patricia bremner 4.1
      19 April 2018 at 8:00 am

      WOW!!

    • AsleepWhileWalking 4.2
      19 April 2018 at 8:20 am

      Everyone should have a read through that link.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.3
      19 April 2018 at 11:40 am

      In normal circumstances, without whistleblowers like those helping the Daphne Project, the owners and their money movements are impossible to trace.

      It needs to be illegal for the owners and money movements not to be traced. And make it so that if they can’t be traced the ownership reverts back to the nation.

      There is no evidence or any suggestion that Denton Morrell or Mr Butterfield were aware of any allegations of money laundering by the Azerbaijan-linked companies, but it appears that the structure created by Denton Morrell may have been used to hide the ultimate beneficial owners of those assets.

      It seems obvious to me that the structure was created to do the money laundering.

    • reason 4.4
      19 April 2018 at 1:22 pm

      Key and the Nats made us all inside members of a dirty corrupt criminal world ….. when they turned NZ into a full blown tax haven ( for foriegners).

      This latest criminal enterprise which has a New Zealand link is but one in a long trail involving thefts murders and corruption ….

      The Green party in particular should be shaking this rotten tree … there is a lot more to drop out of it.

      We have a Malta link as well ….. and this journalist being killed would be the equivalent of Nicky Hager being blown up here.

      Hooten, Slater, Odgers and by association Dirty Politics have taken a step down that path already …..

    • savenz 4.5
      19 April 2018 at 2:17 pm

      Great link Carolyn_Nth.

      Shocking – makes you wonder not only how much tax avoidance we are encouraging here, but also how much of our NZ assets are also listed as NZ companies or under bogus trusts but owned by someone else and how under that structure, our government would be completely unaware how much NZ land and assets are offshore owned and managed.

      I’m pretty sure that 3% that Key’s government said was foreign owned land and farms was as genuine as his efforts on Pike River recovery.

    • Cinny 4.6
      19 April 2018 at 4:01 pm

      Dang !!!! Thanks for the link Carolyn.

  5. AsleepWhileWalking 5
    19 April 2018 at 8:05 am

    NZDF Doc warns our Vets are not getting treatment they need.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12035004

    • Johnr 5.1
      19 April 2018 at 12:45 pm

      I have no argument with the NZDF Docs assertions.

      But, I notice your reference refers to the RSA and poppy day.

      After the way they treated J Force and Korean vets and the way we were treated coming back from nam, the sooner the RSA goes broke and disappears the better. This only changed when they realised their WW1 and WW2 vets were dying off and the cash cow was disappearing.

  6. Ad 6
    19 April 2018 at 8:18 am

    Rapper CardiB cites Franklin Delano Roosevelt:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-says-cardi-b-is-right-about-who-really-made-america-great-again_us_5ad76261e4b0e4d0715c7cd2

    Now I’m waiting to see Ladi6 cite Michael Joseph Savage.

    Sanders gets points for the uplift.

    • joe90 6.1
      19 April 2018 at 10:33 am

      heh

      Cardi B is getting into tax policy now. She says she's paying 40% of her income in taxes and wants to know where the money is going…"when you donate to a kid in a foreign country, they give you updates on what they're doing with your donation….I want updates on my tax money." pic.twitter.com/E1hITGNqee— Yashar Ali 🐘 (@yashar) March 23, 2018

      […]

      4. The video above wasn't the first time Cardi B has talked about taxes. Late last year, she shared her tax planning strategies with her followers. pic.twitter.com/rtIai4Xl6I— Yashar Ali 🐘 (@yashar) March 23, 2018

      https://twitter.com/yashar/status/977144945755803648?lang=en

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1
        19 April 2018 at 1:13 pm

        I, too, want to be able to know what the taxes are spent on. As far as I’m concerned, in this day and age, we should be able to go online and get an accurate accounting in near real time and going back for several years at least.

        • Planet Earth 6.1.1.1
          19 April 2018 at 3:48 pm

          Wrong log-in, Penny

        • McFlock 6.1.1.2
          19 April 2018 at 3:51 pm

          Why?

          Other than giving fuckwits the ability to turn financial accountability into a manual denial-of-service attack by querying every transaction as soon as it’s made.

          If the larger-scale problems weren’t already obvious and innumerable (DHB “debts”, teacher shortages, infrastructure decay, and so on), maybe realtime minutae would be useful. but there’s more than enough to address already.

          • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.2.1
            19 April 2018 at 4:42 pm

            Why?

            Because we actually need to know to be able to govern ourselves. Which is what democracy is all about – governing ourselves. To be able to say which of the resources that the country has should be used.

            Other than giving fuckwits the ability to turn financial accountability into a manual denial-of-service attack by querying every transaction as soon as it’s made.

            There would need to be rules of course.

            If the larger-scale problems weren’t already obvious

            If they were obvious then the last government wouldn’t have been able to lie about them for nine years.

            • McFlock 6.1.1.2.1.1
              19 April 2018 at 4:57 pm

              What more for “democracy” do we need to know that we don’t already know?

              You can hand-wave all the rules you want, the fact is that every system is open to abuse and the tories could easily shut down any government they don’t like purely by volume of complaints and storms in teacups. Look at what they did with MP expenses, and you want that level of bullshit spread throughout the entire bureaucracy?

              The larger scale problems were obvious. The government lied about them. But the real problem is that people didn’t care enough to bother with even that granularity of information – if it suited them, they were happy to go along with whatever key or hosking said. We don’t suffer from a lack of information, our system a lack of consideration.

        • joe90 6.1.1.3
          19 April 2018 at 4:09 pm

          Keith Ng’s budget visualiser from a few years back.

          https://publicaddress.net/keith/static/Budget2013-130516/Budget-Treemap.html

  7. AsleepWhileWalking 7
    19 April 2018 at 8:33 am

    Thumbs up to Countdown in Marton who are the first supermarket in NZ to introduce quiet hour.

    Specifically catering to the autistic it sounds heavenly for the non spectrum stressed out too with minimal light levels, no background music/ads, no staff stocking shelves. Just ease and grace + One Card rewards 😉

    Feedback is overwhelmingly positive

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12034905

    • veutoviper 7.1
      19 April 2018 at 9:12 am

      What a great initiative. Is this an hour daily?

      Do you know whether it is just a local management initiative or whether it is a trial for wider application throughout NZ Countdowns, similar to their ongoing introduction of pharmacies into their bigger stores?

      I have found this latter initiative in my local Countdown excellent. The pharmacy is open (I think) from 7 – 8am through to about 7 – 8pm daily, and their per item prescription charges are only $3 compared to the standard $5. Their prices for over the counter (General Sales) pharmaceuticals and other medications, medicines etc seem to be generally lower than at other pharmacies. These charges and prices are apparently standard across all Countdown pharmacies.

      This is no criticism of the smaller pharmacies (independent or part of a group) because understandably their overheads are much higher, whereas presumably the Countdown pharmacies’ overheads (floor space, power etc) are less due to their shared nature. And these smaller pharmacies will always remain essential to smaller towns, local communities where these larger facilities are not practical or feasible from a business point of view.

  8. savenz 8
    19 April 2018 at 9:14 am

    What’s going on, a worthwhile and liberal opinion on Granny!

    Comment: Loss of libraries is a symptom of Auckland University’s decline

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12034770

    • Draco T Bastard 8.1
      19 April 2018 at 1:39 pm

      Quoting article:

      Parents have been encouraged to believe, in spite of plentiful evidence to the contrary, that their children’s future success is dependent on their commitment to purely career-oriented courses;

      Hasn’t changed since I was a child 40+ years ago then.

      …and by a National Standards regime that promotes crudely measurable forms of knowledge at the expense of critical thinking.

      And that’s actually going back to the way things were when I was a child. I suppose we should expect that sort of BS from conservatives who always think that the past was better.

      For academic staff, the exaggerated emphasis placed on so-called “research outputs” as the principal criterion for professional advancement, has meant publication has tended to displace teaching as the core of professional responsibility.

      I actually want our universities to be doing research and publishing. Perhaps the problem is that, over the last while, we’ve regarded universities as tertiary education rather than the research institutions that they should be. Learning goes hand in hand with research but not so much teaching.

      It’s a difference in perspective. Instead of going to university to learn we have people going to university to do research. At the end of that research they will publish and maybe get a degree. They will join as part of a small team doing specific research under the guidance of a primary, i.e, someone who already has a degree in that field.

      We’d get better learning and more innovation. Would involve a lot more people.

      All of this has meant that, even as fees kept rising, students have been getting less and less for their money.

      Are, the National slogan Do More With Less strikes again and we end up getting a lot less for more.

      The new Government’s decision to gradually abolish undergraduate fees, by countering the neo-liberal idea of tertiary education as a “private good”, is a step in the right direction but unless it is accompanied by serious investment and a through re-think of what universities are all about, it will probably only hasten a decline brought about by already inadequate funding.

      See my thoughts above.

      • Incognito 8.1.1
        19 April 2018 at 10:28 pm

        I can think of some important functions of universities:

        1) A place where students learn to learn and learn to become critical & independent thinkers

        2) A place where students learn to do research & innovation

        3) A place where research and scholarship are conducted and preserved

        4) A repository of knowledge

        5) To act as a critic & conscience of society

        Have you heard of Professional Teaching Fellows?

        • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1
          19 April 2018 at 10:40 pm

          Nothing I said would change that. It changes the reason for going to university from a place to get a degree to a place to do research.

          1. Students should be doing that from primary school.
          2. Yes, a university is a place for research. Again though, people should be learning to do research from primary school. Innovation isn’t something people do but something that comes about because of what people know, their experience and if they’ve developed their critical thinking.
          3. Back to 2.
          4. Back to 2.
          5. That’s what research is for.

          No.

          • Incognito 8.1.1.1.1
            19 April 2018 at 11:47 pm

            If you’re interested, here’s a brief description: https://www.otago.ac.nz/humanresources/training/academic-staff/academic-titles/otago069317.html#TFposition

            I’d argue that critical & independent thinking are more fundamental to #5 than research but you and I may have a slightly different understanding of “research”.

            What happens inside the walls of universities has to build on a solid educational foundation; this is one growing problem.

            This is what a university degree is supposed to stand for and mean: https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/students/forms-policies-and-guidelines/student-policies-and-guidelines/graduate-profile.html

            Different degrees have different profiles; there is no one size fits all, obviously.

            There is a growing recognition and emphasis on ongoing education for university staff including researchers and how to improve their teaching; it is impossible to get promoted in the system without at least some teaching component.

            • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1.1.1
              20 April 2018 at 11:05 am

              What happens inside the walls of universities has to build on a solid educational foundation; this is one growing problem.

              Yes, that I can agree with. That’s why the change over the last few years in education to research based education even at primary school to develop critical thinking and the knowledge on how to do research.

              There is a growing recognition and emphasis on ongoing education for university staff including researchers and how to improve their teaching; it is impossible to get promoted in the system without at least some teaching component.

              Ongoing education is necessary for everyone.

              And I think we’re talking past each other. You seem to be thinking of teaching as a separate activity while I’m thinking that the experienced doctorate would be leading under-graduates through research and helping them learn along the way.

              • Incognito …
                20 April 2018 at 10:40 pm

                Yes, I agree that we seem to talking past each other. I do think that learning to learn and learning to do research are different processes that require different approaches and methodologies for optimal results. Ergo, they require different teaching styles. I do agree that there is an overlap, a point of connection, and that both aspects, if you like, can be taught by the same person or people. In practice, this is not as common as one would think because teaching and research have drifted apart and are, in fact quite separated – income, overheads, and cross-subsidising are carefully monitored and fodder for ongoing discussions about the right model, etc. Universities are ‘forcing’ this to change by setting Academic Standards that one has to meet in order to get promoted. As so many other decisions in the university system, it is done in a heavy-handed authoritarian manner with a very business-minded (hard-nosed) attitude.

      • McFlock 8.1.2
        19 April 2018 at 10:41 pm

        Part of the problem with universities is that it’s almost all about publishing. And peer-reviewed publishing with impact factors, at that.

        So the academic responsibility of universities also being “critic and conscience of society” counts for nought unless it’s plugged in a journal that only other academics will read, by and large. Public reports, externally-funded research, or even opinion pieces in local media count for virtually nothing, even if the reports are peer-reviewed and have social worth.

        And similarly the teaching side becomes a numbers game. Apparently there’s one vice chancellor of a university who is getting academic credit (in addition to the day job) for “supervising” the research of around a dozen phd candidates. Makes you wonder how closely the tens of thousands of words each candidate puts out a year are actually being read, let alone how much help they get designing and producing the associated journal articles. That VC could always be a fecking machine, but doubtful.

        • Incognito 8.1.2.1
          19 April 2018 at 11:57 pm

          By Law universities are required to fulfil their role as critic & conscience of society. How do you think they (should) achieve this?

          Teaching is much broader than supervising the research of PhD students. But I agree that some are taking the piss; there is a limit to how many PhD students one academic can formally (as in: taking the credit) supervise.

          Part of the problem with universities is that it’s almost all about publishing. And peer-reviewed publishing with impact factors, at that.

          If only! It is all about income and money!

          • McFlock 8.1.2.1.1
            20 April 2018 at 12:13 am

            True, at the root it’s money. But that’s above my payscale. I just see most academics shitting themselves about what outputs count how much towards pbrf. Apparently the grail is to get multiyear program fundng so you can take additional research into the margin for error of the program budget, lol.

            But yeah the critic and conscience role is more important possibly even than research, but is too qualitative to be recognised by most managerial regimes.. We do actually need people taking time to submit on bills or local projects, even to write think-pieces for the local rag and turn up to public meetings on local issues, providing informed opinion without fear of compromising their jobs. Those were the days.

            • Incognito 8.1.2.1.1.1
              20 April 2018 at 11:07 pm

              The reason why academics are shitting themselves about PBRF is because management is painting pictures full of fire & brimstone. PBRF is hugely costly zer0-sum exercise. The only group that really benefits from this entire madness are the big publishing houses that own the scientific journals; it is a billion dollar industry subsidised by taxpayers and students & their parents.

              The ‘grail’ is to get any grant, any funding, which requires ‘pilot data’ and a strong ‘track record’ in the field, which effectively means that you have already done a major part of what you say you will be doing if (!) you get the funding. It is a game and to play the game you have to game the system and use what is colloquially called “grantsmanship”. In this lottery system (because of the very low success rates in getting grants) success breeds success; merit of the proposals and good quality research ideas play a lesser role than they should. It is a subtle but insidious variation on the theme of the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

              There are not nearly enough public intellectuals. In the US the public university is going extinct. In fact, anything public is slowly disappearing all over the world. We live in an age of hyper-individualism and privatisation for profiteering by a few and these elites feel no charity towards institutions or individuals who would like to play the role of critic & conscience of society.

  9. savenz 9
    19 April 2018 at 9:25 am

    Love how (sarcasm) it’s the arts that people seem to think is a dead end career choice and not good for NZ. In my view it’s cultural capital that is now starting to have massive value as people push back from this obsession with money and economy. People in those industry have ideas, they do things!

    Our richest and most well known teenager is Lorde (music), one of our biggest challenges is architecture and planning (also being cut from the library) especially with the current ‘clown planning’ in Auckland and building disasters from leaky building to Bella vista in Tauranga.

    Our fine artists are as important as cultural capital as sport (without the big funding).

    Prince William and Dutchess of Cambridge studied art history, but to the Auckland University philistines, arts are clearly not important.

    Nobody takes foreign dignitaries to the law firm or the accountants office in NZ. Nope they get the cultural experience because otherwise we might as well sell our country as the cheaper Pita pit if we take away our arts and culture and deem it 3rd class at university level.

    • Puckish Rogue 9.1
      19 April 2018 at 9:27 am

      Lorde is talented but not even she can turn back time (shes 21)

    • savenz 9.2
      19 April 2018 at 9:41 am

      Or as Wei says in his/her posts on the immigration issue “Too small a population means you get inbreds with no technology and no culture and no civilization. ”

      I’m not sure if he/she is referring to Maori or just all of NZ? But an alternative vision rather than overturning or appropriation of culture, could be maintaining and cherishing it, which clearly is not happening at our largest university.

      • savenz 9.2.1
        19 April 2018 at 9:54 am

        Also in relation to Wei’s comment on technology with low populations, .. tech is NZ’s fastest growing and third biggest export… and our tech people are valued highly and sought after overseas. (Pity not much government/business support on keeping local tech talent in NZ with high wages and decent jobs and opportunities.)

        https://exportertoday.co.nz/news/nzs-tech-talent-demand

      • Draco T Bastard 9.2.2
        19 April 2018 at 1:51 pm

        Or as Wei says in his/her posts on the immigration issue “Too small a population means you get inbreds with no technology and no culture and no civilization. ”

        Which, of course, is a load of bollocks. From Why we can’t afford the rich:

        In his book The Moral Economy of Labor, James Murphy cites empirical research on the relation between the intellectual capacities of workers and the complexity of the work they do that showed that over a 10-year period the intelligence of workers doing complex jobs developed, while that of workers doing simple and repetitive work deteriorated. Further, as Smith feared, there is evidence that ‘Workers in mindless jobs not only undermine their capacity for the enjoyment of complex activities at work but also their capacity for the enjoyment of complex activities during leisure.’
        As Murphy adds, while workers are increasingly protected from harm to their physical capacities, they are not protected from harm to their mental capacities.
        Smith didn’t see the jobs people do as a reflection of their intelligence, but rather the reverse:

        The difference of natural talents in different men is, in reality, much less than we are aware of; and the very different genius which appears to distinguish men of different professions, when grown up in maturity, is not upon many occasions so much the cause, as the effect of the division of labour. The difference between the most dissimilar characters, between a philosopher and a common street porter, for example, seems to arise not so much from nature, as from habit, custom, and education.

        My bold.

        Yeah, it’s not the number of people that is the problem but our socio-economic system which disadvantages the many in favour of the few.

        • Wei 9.2.2.1
          19 April 2018 at 11:17 pm

          Your second point, which I agree with, had virtually nothing to do with the first.

          A small population means you are less likely to produce Beethoven’s, Led Zeppelin’s and Steven Hawkings. That’s just a plain statistical fact.
          And you do obviously have less opportunity for specialisation, and a smaller market for innovation —although international trade ameliorates that somewhat.

          I had a friend who lived in UK in the 1970s and 1980s. It was a glorious time, he could enjoy live concerts of the best rock bands in the world on an almost weekly basis. The size of the population meant a high probability that not only great talents would emerge (not the only factor of course), but the mass and density of the population means there is a market to enjoy that talent and it is economic to perform to live audiences on a frequent basis. New York and Paris and even Hong Kong and have far more going on in the arts and music than Auckland, and likely always will.

          Another example is of course minor sports and niche activities. For example, in Europe, rugby is still a relatively minor sport, proportionately speaking. Yet the sport can draw huge crowds and they have very competitive national and international competitions that frequently run. Even though a small percentage of people are interested in the sport, they still have the highest number of registered players in the world, I believe. On a per capita basis, football, in New Zealand is at least as popular as rugby in Europe, but you get more seagulls at a local tournament, and the skill level is abysmal.

          • Draco T Bastard 9.2.2.1.1
            19 April 2018 at 11:44 pm

            A small population means you are less likely to produce Beethoven’s, Led Zeppelin’s and Steven Hawkings. That’s just a plain statistical fact.

            More bollocks. Statistically speaking all groups of people have exactly the same chance.

            And you do obviously have less opportunity for specialisation, and a smaller market for innovation

            You obviously misunderstood the quote: Specialisation hinders innovation and the development of intelligence.

            It was a glorious time, he could enjoy live concerts of the best rock bands in the world on an almost weekly basis.

            I can do that today in NZ. Could do it in the 1970s/80s as well. We’ve even had a few of them end up the world stage over the years.

            but the mass and density of the population means there is a market to enjoy that talent and it is economic to perform to live audiences on a frequent basis.

            Any size population that’s capable of supporting itself is quite capable of doing that as well. Large numbers don’t actually make it any better.

            New York and Paris and even Hong Kong and have far more going on in the arts and music than Auckland, and likely always will.

            In absolute numbers, yeah, but not as a percentage. The percentage will be about the same.

            On a per capita basis, football, in New Zealand is at least as popular as rugby in Europe, but you get more seagulls at a local tournament, and the skill level is abysmal.

            [Citation Needed]

            • Wei 9.2.2.1.1.1
              20 April 2018 at 12:11 am

              More bollocks. Statistically speaking all groups of people have exactly the same chance.. Bollocks.

              Statistically speaking, and assuming a similar statistical distribution of talent, a larger population obviously has more chance of producing an outrageous talent than a smaller population.

              A country with 10 times the population of another, will, assuming similar birthrates and demographic characteristics, produce 10 times the number of geniuses within the same period

              “Specialisation hinders innovation and the development of intelligence.”

              That’s a ridiculous statement. The fact that I can programme software say, and only know how to do that, and not catch my fish, and grow my vegetables is no hindrance on the development of intelligence. In engineering there are huge ramifying trees of specialisations —working in any one of them provides a lifetime of cognitive challenge.

              “while that of workers doing simple and repetitive work deteriorated”
              Sorry, these workers are not ‘specialists’. In fact they are the very opposite. Simple repetitive work can be done by anyone. These workers are utilised as generic cogs.

              “In absolute numbers, yeah, but not as a percentage. The percentage will be about the same.”

              It simply does not work that way. A country of a small population may never have the chance to enjoy, say the Berlin Philharmonic, whereas another country with a larger population may have them tour once every 2 or 3 years. Not exactly sure what the exact thresholds are, but the relationship is certainly not a linear one.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                20 April 2018 at 10:56 am

                Statistically speaking, and assuming a similar statistical distribution of talent, a larger population obviously has more chance of producing an outrageous talent than a smaller population.

                A larger population will produce a larger number of outstanding talent (if such a thing even exists) but they have the same chance.

                That’s a ridiculous statement.

                That’s what the research shows and what I quoted.

                In his book The Moral Economy of Labor, James Murphy cites empirical research on the relation between the intellectual capacities of workers and the complexity of the work they do that showed that over a 10-year period the intelligence of workers doing complex jobs developed, while that of workers doing simple and repetitive work deteriorated.

                Complexity develops intelligence. Specialisation is a decrease in complexity.

                Sorry, these workers are not ‘specialists’.

                They’re doing the same work over and over, ergo, specialised. And it results in a decrease in intelligence.

                Considering that that applies to the majority of the population we should probably change it so that we can increase the intelligence and innovation of the country.

                The book goes on to say that even doctors and other highly skilled specialists would probably benefit from having a change.

                It simply does not work that way. A country of a small population may never have the chance to enjoy, say the Berlin Philharmonic, whereas another country with a larger population may have them tour once every 2 or 3 years.

                Who gives a fuck about the Berlin Philharmonic touring?
                In Auckland we have the Auckland Philharmonic. Then there’s the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra and the Orchestra Wellington.

                Biggest Success story in town.
                With a rich history as New Zealand’s oldest regional orchestra founded over sixty years ago, Orchestra Wellington’s audience numbers have grown rapidly to become one of the most consistently well attended in the country. With progressive programmes, accessible pricing, and a focus on community outreach, Orchestra Wellington is now recognised as one of the most exciting and progressive orchestras in the world.

                Yeah, I’m pretty sure that we have the music covered.

                It’s not a question of absolute numbers but of productivity and percentages. Even small villages thousands of years ago produced good musicians.

    • Puckish Rogue 10.1
      19 April 2018 at 9:59 am

      Sounds more like the dangers of dumb ass parents (but yes also homeopathy)

    • Stunned Mullet 10.2
      19 April 2018 at 10:47 am

      The only real danger from homeopathy is if one has an actual illness and is relying on the homeopathy to offer any actual benefit outside of the placebo effect.

      If you’ve got a health problem best to see a good qualified medical doctor in the first instance for a diagnosis and then proceed on from there.

      • Andre 10.2.1
        19 April 2018 at 11:03 am

        Dunno about the lack of real danger. If the homeopathic practitioner decided the rabid dog saliva didn’t need much potentising, and didn’t go through the extended palaver of repeated dilution and succussion, then the treatment might be a wee bit riskier than I’d be comfortable with.

        • Robert Guyton 10.2.1.1
          19 April 2018 at 11:44 am

          How does one collect rabid-dog saliva?
          In any case, the much maligned “placebo” effect is very powerful and useful in conventional modern medicine, as well as in traditional practices.

          • Andre 10.2.1.1.1
            19 April 2018 at 4:24 pm

            Can’t say I’ve ever seen info on recommended techniques. I wouldn’t have guessed there was much demand for rabid-dog saliva, since rabies vaccines are produced using cell-culture or nerve tissue. In any case, collecting spider venom or snake venom strikes me as a more difficult problem, for which there’s a variety of solutions, since collecting those kinds of venom is necessary for producing treatments that actually work.

            Dunno that the placebo effect itself is much maligned. Insufficiently understood and insufficiently used, for sure, but the non-use of placebo by modern medicine is as much an ethics issue as anything else. But when it comes to maligning, the existence of a powerful placebo effect is used to malign nostrum hucksters whose products are no more effective than placebos (and sometimes actually less effective).

          • Gabby 10.2.1.1.2
            19 April 2018 at 5:04 pm

            Possibly, one fibs about it bob.

        • Stunned Mullet 10.2.1.2
          19 April 2018 at 3:38 pm

          Yes fair point anyone prepared to supply this product may be less than scrupulous in the dilutions – I suspect all of it is just water out of the tap ……

  11. Anne 11
    19 April 2018 at 9:49 am

    Phil Quinn: the political commentator we all love to hate (including me) has redeemed himself. Haven’t time yet to read it properly but what I have read thus far… I agree with everything he has said:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12034958

    • savenz 11.1
      19 April 2018 at 10:03 am

      Great link Anne, I don’t think Dotcom is that unlikable, it was the MSM hate campaign against him, he’s more like a manic with big ideas (But Dotcom actually achieves them). Other pluses, he lives in NZ, has a family here, rents! a house and has the ability to create jobs, opportunities and industry in this country. My vote is for him not someone on $16.50 p/h or tech moguls that don’t live or invest in NZ to stay and lead a colourful (but legal) and productive life here with his family.

      From Anne’s link…

      “Consider this. The Global Financial Crisis brought countless millions to their knees. Hundreds of thousands were left homeless due to the dodgy bank loans and the reckless conduct of financial titans. For these crimes, with real and countless victims, the US Department of Justice has barely lifted a finger.

      Fewer than five criminals responsible for Wall St’s moral failures have spent any time behind bars — and for a fraction of the time the feds insist for Dotcom and his colleagues. Why? Because the mortgage-strapped and cash-poor can’t afford lobbyists and lawyers to persuade the government to do their bidding.”

      • patricia bremner 11.1.1
        19 April 2018 at 6:41 pm

        Dotcom is a lonely Big Guy who doesn’t drink because of an alcoholic parent.
        He always wanted to be big in IT. He is also not a well man, who has been treated poorly. I don’t agree with some of his politics, but he deserves better than he has had so far. He has been used.

    • Morrissey 11.2
      19 April 2018 at 10:11 am

      Priceless moment at the 2.14 mark in that video.

    • joe90 11.3
      19 April 2018 at 10:29 am

      Prick’s an opportunist who tried to make hay out of a family’s loss. Fuck him.

      https://gizmodo.com/kim-dotcom-says-fbi-file-about-seth-rich-is-fake-but-h-1795646891?IR=T

  13. Siobhan 13
    19 April 2018 at 10:40 am

    A shout out to Radio New Zealand for, yet again, contacting the Cuban Studies Institute, otherwise known as University of Miami’s Institute for Cuban and Cuban-American Studies, for their take on the current change of power in Cuba.

    I include this quote from an article discussing the trials and tribulations of the institute itself..(my bolds)

    “Over the summer, several Cuban exile groups joined the fray, concerned that the institute might shift its focus from being an academic weapon against the Castro regime. They took the line that Suchlicki had not retired but had been unjustly terminated.

    Some exiles began to attack Gómez and asked for his resignation as interim director of the institute.

    Without mentioning Gómez directly, the organizations that make up the Cuban Resistance said in a statement that UM “cannot appoint an interim director or any incoming directors who may associate with companies that trade with the Castro regime, since this Center, by definition, cannot be under the influence and interference of Havana’s totalitarian regime.” Gómez had been an on-board lecturer on Cuba during a cruise to the island. It was a one-time gig.”

    They are entitled to their opinion , and their take on current events in Cuba is interesting, but why would RNZ not explain the Institutes overt position on Cuba, the Castro crowd and Communism in general.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article191309729.html

  14. Ed 14
    19 April 2018 at 11:07 am

    The Herald is obsessed with the mindless mutterings of a homophobic sportsplayer.
    As winter approaches, imagine if they devoted the same column inches to the crises facing our country – inequality, homelessness, child poverty….

    Maybe they could dedicate a lot more coverage to climate change, so they have an informed readership.

    We need a lot more coverage like this from Stuff today.

    “The 2016 marine heatwave has triggered the initial phase of that transition [to heat-tolerant reef assemblages] on the northern, most pristine region of the Great Barrier Reef, changing it forever as the intensity of global warming continues to escalate,” the paper said.”

    The key word there is FOREVER.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/103229290/great-barrier-reef-cooked-by-marine-heatwave-study

  16. Ad 16
    19 April 2018 at 11:27 am

    If Bill is out there, looks like your optimism over no war being started in Korea was better placed than my anxiety. Hopefully.

    Since this really does feel like the start of a proper diplomatic fandango, I am hoping for very modest improvements. Like, for example, Kim sees that it’s better to form a proper diplomatic corps to engage with countries. And that forming a bit of a decent public service to deal with that is a whole bunch more effective than successively executing any general who disagrees with him.

    And secondly, realising that there is more to sustaining a country than giving the military everything they want. It’s not in his military’s interests to see diplomatic success – diplomacy is the solvent to martial law.

    Those two would be small but humble starts.

    More adventurously, I hope the US agrees formally that the Korean War has stopped and that they make peace over that.

    Spare me from God’s wrath if I see Trump being as good as Obama at cracking the hard diplomatic problems.

  17. Ed 17
    19 April 2018 at 11:51 am

    Intensive Dairy farming is NOT a sustainable practice.
    It is destroying our soil.

    “Nearly 200 million tonnes of soil are being lost in New Zealand every year – an out-of-sight problem that could pose far-reaching consequences for our environment and economy.
    A major Government report out this morning also found nearly half of that loss was coming from pastures, at a time when dairy intensification was packing more cows into paddocks.
    The quality and quantity of soil is crucial to the overall health of our land and wider environment, storing water, carbon and nutrients, growing food, breaking down contaminants and hosting an abundance of species.
    Half of tested dairy sites had excess soil phosphorus and a further 65 per cent were below the target range for macroporosity.
    New Zealand accounted for just 0.2 per cent of the planet’s total land area but contributed 1.7 per cent to global sediment loss.
    The amount of land used for dairy has meanwhile surged by more than per 40 cent since the early 2000s, while that used for sheep and beef has dropped by 20 per cent, in step with dairy’s white gold rush.
    New Zealand’s dairy country now spanned 2.6m ha

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12035548

  18. veutoviper 18
    19 April 2018 at 2:10 pm

    OMG – Andrew Little and Pike River family members have gone 30m into the mine.

    At last.

    RNZ National reported it on their 2pm news but not on website yet but this from TVNZ.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/pike-river-mine-victims-family-members-enter-portal-very-first-time-alongside-andrew-little

  19. Ad 19
    19 April 2018 at 2:44 pm

    Has anyone here read “The Captured Economy – how the powerful enrich themselves, slow down growth, and increase inequality”, by Brink Lindsey and Steven Teles?

    They take Piketty seriously, and are of course super-dark on Trump, but have a really weird view of the role of the state in the economy, and some fairly slippery institutional framework theory around that.

    Just checking if anyone’s had a look at this book.

  20. joe90 20
    19 April 2018 at 3:43 pm

    Turning back the clock.

    Horrifying. This is 2018 America. Judicial nominee Wendy Vitter had her confirmation hearing this morning. She stated she “personally disagrees with the decision in Brown v. Board of Education.”That’s literally white supremacy. 😳#UnfitToJudgepic.twitter.com/1Ptp6jSin5— Qasim Rashid, Esq. (@MuslimIQ) April 11, 2018

  21. Cinny 21
    19 April 2018 at 4:08 pm

    Just for a laugh…

    Miss 13 cooked dinner last night, did a stellar job.
    Miss 10 wanted to say something nice, so thanked ‘god’ for dinner (Nana took her to church last Sunday).
    Miss 13 walked off. She was pissed off because god didn’t make dinner, she did! Lmao!!!

  22. CHCOff 22
    19 April 2018 at 4:22 pm

    It is hopeful that good progress seems to being made with a trade deal with Britain post brexit.

    Trade deals that promote ‘values’ instead of ‘donkey billions’ is the way to go, & more traditional forms of developmental western societal organisation to that, would have more mutual recognition and easy alignment with the British people going down the track i’d say, from New Zealand’s position, traditional receptivity & prosperity.

    I wonder if a RAF training base down queenstown way would be a viable thing. A training space for the British with their top aircraft and relatively unclutted airspace – would basically have the entire westcoast to zoom up and down on for starters with formations, drills, scenarios and the like, with geography not that far removed from alot of European soil. And the NZ forces providing the on ground maintenance with the British top wings, would be a win for them as well.

    • Gabby 22.1
      19 April 2018 at 5:16 pm

      Sure, maybe a nice bombing range in the middle of the lake?

    • McFlock 22.2
      19 April 2018 at 5:25 pm

      Well, uncluttered except when they have the helicopters flying around to keep frost off the vines…

    • Ad 22.3
      19 April 2018 at 7:08 pm

      What does Britain have that we would want to buy or sell for which there are great big trade barriers to entry?

      Munitions?

      A monarchy and House of Lords?

      A corrupt class system?

      A dead public health system?

      Lots of empty stone churches?

      I’m old enough to remember what English companies and English politics did to us last century.
      So I would like to hear what Prime Minister has in mind for our country on this.

      • In Vino 22.3.1
        19 April 2018 at 7:45 pm

        Maybe that just for once we could stop copying Britain’s mistakes several years after even Britain has recognised that they were mistakes?

    • Pat 22.4
      19 April 2018 at 7:49 pm

      Which emissions budget would that come out of…ours or the UK’s?

  23. Morrissey 23
    19 April 2018 at 8:24 pm

    The great and good Sir Robert Jones again comes under attack from some untermensch—this time a “huge great ugly blonde thing.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12024103

  24. eco maori 24
    19 April 2018 at 8:51 pm

    This is my tipuna in Tikapa Marae

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jtzsKaEd3X_7TN5gzoxlAMSicQWPyG4x/view?usp=drives
    The Hupu IWI I SAY Ngati-Ruawaipu

  25. Jenny 25
    20 April 2018 at 4:02 am

    “Great Barrier Reef ‘cooked’ by marine heatwave: study”

    That’s all right then, we have more than enough oil and gas exploration permits to continue on with.

  26. eco maori 26
    20 April 2018 at 7:21 am

    The Am Show Good morning social media is a awesome tool to educate te tangata about the truths of the ruling classes and the reality’s of the plite of the common people.There is a dubble edged sword in everything to do with the internet as with anything one must know what the mokopunas are up to . To prevent someone from having a negative affect on the children observation is key here because sometimes they won’t tell you what the are up to observation and Aroha are a must for children .
    Soil is one of the life force of Papatuanuku we could easily change to Organic farming it would be better for the enviroment and for us less chemicals =less cancers .
    Ka kite ano I have to go to work here a brown man that tells it like it is.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/103152684/racism-is-real-raw-and-working-in-aotearoa Kia kaha brown tangata

    • eco maori 26.1
      20 April 2018 at 6:37 pm

      Newshub Our Leader looked good wearing te beautiful Korowai that is a excerlint way to promote our Maori culture to the World ka pai .
      Mark Middleton congratulations on getting your visa to stay in NZ permanently many thanks to Chis and co for granting Mark this Eco Maori does not trust the system as far as I can——— I have tryed to use the legal systems 5 times and 5 times they have cheated me out of justice the——- Ana to kai .
      Thats a awesome the Dunedin Wild life Hospital ka pai many animals and birds will be saved because of this great institution.
      I brought a poppy today the thing is I have a problem with ANZAC day is that in my eyes it promotes war and war is for idiots in Eco Maori View . Ka kite ano

      • eco maori 26.1.1
        20 April 2018 at 7:25 pm

        The Crowd Goes Wild Wairanga and Makere it will be awesome if the Warriors end up with heaps of wagons following there band there are other reasons I a kumara never tells how sweet it is .
        Wai this new format of cricket could attacked more brown players which is a good thing I recon that some should start a New Zealand Ausse Rules Rugby He tangata will make heaps of money playing that game in Australia.
        Ka kite ano