Shut up shop makes sense while many of us that want protection from the disease haven't yet had the opportunity to get it. Me included. So I fully support the current round of shut up shop, and I'm mildly annoyed that the travel bubble with Australia was even opened in the first place, let alone how long they left it before closing it.
Once everyone that wants vaccination has had it, I don't think shut up shop will make sense anymore. Based on the published plans, it looks to me like our government won't be using shut up shop as the strategy from then, either.
Considering that vaccine approval down to the age of five (or even 2) is fairly likely to happen late this year, the vaccine rollout will likely extend to early next year. Which is the point when I would expect the shut up shop strategy to end, and new strategies to start.
I don't want to speak for DukeEll, but to me the following freedoms from our Bill of Rights are very important:
16 Freedom of peaceful assembly
Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly.
17 Freedom of association
Everyone has the right to freedom of association.
18 Freedom of movement
(1)Everyone lawfully in New Zealand has the right to freedom of movement and residence in New Zealand.
(2)Every New Zealand citizen has the right to enter New Zealand.
(3)Everyone has the right to leave New Zealand.
(4)No one who is not a New Zealand citizen and who is lawfully in New Zealand shall be required to leave New Zealand except under a decision taken on grounds prescribed by law.
The current severe risk of nasty disease and death certainly justifies the current restrictions on those rights.
But once everyone has had reasonable opportunity to get highly effective protection from severe disease and death, by getting vaccinated, then it will no longer be reasonable or justifiable to continue severely restricting those rights and freedoms.
(1) For the purpose of preventing the outbreak or spread of any infectious disease, the medical officer of health may from time to time, if authorised to do so by the Minister or if a state of emergency has been declared under the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act 2002 or while an epidemic notice is in force,—
(m) (iii) forbid people to congregate in outdoor places of amusement or recreation of any stated kind or description (whether public or private) within the district (or a stated area of the district):
This appears to cover public assembly. But I'm not a lawyer, so don't take my word for it.
I was wondering more about his idea of freedom, rather than how legislation defines it, but thanks for that.
(There are also non-legislated moral and ethical codes, as well as social responsibilities, but I thought to give him a chance to start on the small stuff. See if he can handle the heavy lifting…)
Freedom from “vaccine hesitant” fuckwits would be a great start. They can take partial responsibility for COVID lockdowns and it’s outrageous the government has to take these peoples abhorrent views into account for public safety reasons.
That seems a little harsh considering our vaccination situation right now.
But when we get to the situation that everyone that wants vaccination has had a reasonable chance to get it, I'll probably be saying even harsher things if we still have lockdowns and closed borders.
I might not put it in such strong language but agree 100% with your sentiments Duke. Appears our government is and will continue to pander to said group.
"Servile". Oh I see you would rather be selfish and "Free". Twisting this situation to say the leaders in Health and Politics are cowing people is absolute tripe.
The servility you see is actually recognition of a dangerous and costly situation. Any other response is actually ridiculous. We get one chance to get this right, and this pandemic is getting worse round the world.
The rapid growth of the cluster, the age of the ill indicate the danger of of this highly infectious virus. We are in a "war" situation and "shutting up shop" is necessary.
That "Dear Leader" business is a very poor argument at any time. Politics should be put aside. The virus will infect Left Right and Centre.
Shutting up shop is only necessary because we have had an absolutely pathetic vaccine stoll-out thus far. New Zealand and Australia have handled the stroll out very badly and we are now paying the price. A complete lack of urgency because we apparently didn't have covid. Well guess what. Knock, knock, its here!
You can spin this which ever way you want. However all roads come back to dear leader and her band of merry followers. Period.
A complete lack of urgency because we apparently didn't have covid. Well guess what. Knock, knock, its here!
You can spin this which ever way you want.
David, your "complete lack of urgency" line and that "dear leader and her band of merry followers" jab read like spin. The speed of NZ’s vaccine roll out is determined by vaccine supply (duh!) Rather than focus on the "stroll out", ihmo we should focus on what our Govt could have done to secure vaccine doses more rapidly, and should be doing now as the global number of active Covid-19 cases (currently 17,482,862) continues to soar towards the crest of this pandemic's third wave.
For example, it might be good to have a discussion about whether using vaccines other than Pfizer's COMIRNATY is worth exploring, if NZ does indeed have spare doses of other Covid-19 vaccines, e.g.AZ doses diverted from Italy to Fiji. Or should the NZ government consider increasing taxes to fund the development of a dedicated vaccine production facility in NZ as insurance against future pandemics?
As this pandemic rolls on, remember that NZ's Covid-19 statistics (both cases per million (= 587), and deaths per million (= 5)) place us in an enviable position. Some NZers know just how 'Covid-lucky' we are – go team, get your jabs; I've had mine!
Thanks for the link. We know Comirnaty is safe, now, but did Medsafe drag the chain? They had 49 staff ~20 years ago, and around 60 now.
As part of the deal, no vaccine would be shipped until Medsafe had given approval of the vaccine. For a medicine or vaccine to be imported into New Zealand, it must have Medsafe approval.
When approval was imminent, the Government could raise a purchase order with Pfizer who would then deliver the vaccines.
On January 29, days before Pfizer's jab was given provisional Medsafe approval, the Government made a purchase order for 56 trays of the vaccine, amounting to 54,600 doses. As it transpired, those trays stretched to 65,520 doses, when it was discovered six doses could be extracted from a single vial, rather than five.
Israel has a 7-day moving average of 20 deaths/day from Covid-19. Scaled for population that would translate to 10 Kiwis dying every day. The current death rate in NZ is 0. Just saying.
Nah, don't forget it. Keep it on file and rub my nose in it any time you feel like it. Although I'm sure I've made much nastier comments that would be much better for rubbing my nose in.
BTW, the only comment I made on that OM was this one, which seems very innocuous by my standards.
If you want the link to go direct to the comment, make sure there's some text to go with so it's in a sentence. Even if the text is just a single full-stop.
Oh I see. That will probably explain why it suddenly showed up when I edited it and then when I edited it again it vanished.
And I have had my first jab, as it happens. I had to moan to finally get into the queue but I had it about 3 weeks ago. I would have been due for my second today as it happens but I read the stuff about a longer gap being better and had got it switched to about mid-September. What are the chances we will still be in lockdown then?
About an hour ago on Aljazeera TV new scientific information on the Pfizer vaccine will be released tomorrow. In the US a booster jab will be administered 8 months after the second jab due to antibodies waning.
All the more reason for everyone to get vaccinated if possible. Vaccinations for other diseases usually stop the spread, so if 80% of the population is vaccinated then usually the unvaccinated aren't infected & get a "free ride".
Looks like those who choose not to get the jab this time won't be able to rely on herd immunity for their protection.
Finally, a modest victory of sense over irrational loonies, that should help take a little bit of the edge off a public health crisis causing huge unnecessary suffering.
No, nothing to do with covid, it's just that golden rice has finally been granted the last approval needed to allow commercial growth and distribution in the Philippines, which will alleviate the problem of vitamin A deficiency a bit.
Hopefully, the benefits of this will open people's eyes a little bit more to the benefits of GMOs in dealing with numerous food supply issues coming at us fast.
Oh, the Golden Rice swindle! The problem (one of the many problems) with Golden Rice was that no one wanted to eat it because of its off-putting colour; it looked to rice-eaters as though it was spoiled.
You got any evidence for your assertion that the colour is a problem because people think it's spoiled? I've had a look, and can't find any evidence. I currently work with a majority Filipino workforce, and yellow-coloured rice appears fairly frequently at smoko. So it looks to me like that assertion is just something somebody made up to try to spread false fear, uncertainty, doubt.
As for swindles, the swindling going on about golden rice comes from the organics industry trying to protect their business model of selling the perception of benefits that are non-existent, and the likes of Greenpeace trying to protect their business model of spreading vague fears so they can sell themselves as the solution, to rake in donations and provide a very nice living to those at the top of the organisation thank you very much.
Your Filipino friends' yellow-coloured rice is likely that way because they added yellow-coloured spices to it, not because it came pre-yellowed from the sack! Funny how logical explanations can expose brash assertions.
As to "making it up", to the best of my knowledge and based upon the time, a number of years ago when I researched the Golden Rice issue, I learned of this factor, which seemed to me to be the critical one in the failure of up-take the first time around. I'm still of the view that this was a significant factor. I am however, not interested in going into bat on this issue, thanks.
In other words, I can't be arsed searching for something I found many years ago, despite the fact that the concept I've provided is entirely logical and resisted your efforts to make it seem illogical.
And 🙂 It’s hardly a “scary-sounding assertion” – The rice-eating community weren’t scared by the yellow rice, they just didn’t want to eat it, coz it looks spoiled.
In other you got nuthin'. But it's random idea that fits with your feels and reckons, so you'll keep repeating it regardless of it being untrue.
Idiot.
I've searched for evidence of opposition to golden rice on the basis that it looks like spoiled rice, and turned up nothing. Searching for images of spoiled rice turns up plenty, but the images look nothing like golden rice.
[please tone down the antagonism. There are plenty of politics to argue here without resorting to that. thanks – weka]
Andre; I'm puzzled by your antagonistic approach. You are clearly pro-GE and regard those who are not as "irrational loonies". I've not made any comment at all about GE, yet you're treating me as one of your "irrational loonies", even calling me an idiot, despite the fact that I've stuck closely to logical argument, rather than irrational name-calling.
But it sure would be nice if this bit of this site's policy would get taken a bit more seriously:
This includes making assertions that you are unable to substantiate with some proof (and that doesn’t mean endless links to unsubstantial authorities) or even argue when requested to do so.
True, but I think that Robert did provide a coherent and logical explanation for his belief and an explanation for why he wasn't going to link chase. He also did so in an evenhanded way without upping the ante, and responded to the points you raised. In other words, he wasn't just making a claim of fact and then aggressively doubling down on it without attempting to explain (which is what happens here).
Not everything we know is provable, but we can still communicate it without making a hard claim of fact.
eg he said, this is something I learned some years ago, I don't have a source for it now, but it makes sense because [explanation]
vs someone saying repeatedly, this thing is true, I know it's true, you're wrong.
I found a starting link pretty easily, and I suspect others would have too if the conversation didn't open with calling people irrational loonies.
Andre – can you, I wonder, conceive of the possibility of a factor that might influence the up-take of a certain product by a certain culture, that was not foreseen by the producers, that was not related to the technology used to produce the crop and was a cultural factor, such as colour-preference, an aversion to a product-name, the selection of an inappropriate celebrity for the promotion of the product, etc.
Just a thought-experiment for you and I'm genuinely interested to know.
We're in the middle of a severe housing crisis, a global pandemic catching up on us, dire public health infrastructure etc etc – and all you can think of is the colour of your rice. Oh puhleese!
All I can think of – are your reading skills really that deficient? Have a look around the rest of today's Open Mike and see what other topics I've commented on. Let alone other days and posts.
And further to your reading comprehension deficiency, the issue around golden rice is not the colour, but that it can alleviate some of the horrible blight of hundreds of millions of people suffering vitamin A deficiency. At zero cost.
Blocking the prevention of even just a few of those cases because some privileged wealthy westerners hold some evidence-free irrational beliefs and wish to impose them on others is indeed something I'm utterly disgusted about. It's human suffering many orders of magnitude beyond the first world problems of a few people here being unable to buy a house or not getting a vaccination as quickly as they would like.
Yes, I think the yellow rice argument is a red (or is that yellow) herring. Because many people colour their rice with tumeric, so how it would be an issue is a mystery beyond straw clutching.
My biggest issue with GE is contamination of wild stock. Yes it happens, frequently. My second issue is corporate control of food lines. Big oil has shown us what they're prepared to do to retain riches and power, why big Ag and the likes of Monsanto would be any different is a fairy tale mystery to me.
"current regulatory systems are unable to protect against the risk of GMO contamination… farmers are reluctant to seek redress for fear of possible patent infringement…"
Wilson, S. (2014). Induced Nuisance: Holding Patient Owners Liable for GMO Cross-Contamination. Emory LJ, 64, 169.
"Genetically Modified Crops cannot co-exists with organic and heirloom crops. GMOs decimate their organic ancestors at the expense of agrobiodiversity and with little regard for environmental consequences. The pollen of monoculture plants cross-pollinates plants of the same species that may be quite far away in a process called genetic drift. This would be natural and necessary if it were not for the unnatural and dangerous traits that are inserted into GMOs through human hands, thereby often recklessly infiltrating organic or heirloom plants with GMO traits."
Steier, G. (2016). Textbox: Cross-Contamination, Genetic Drift, and the Question of GMO Co-existence with Non-GM Crops. In International Food Law and Policy (pp. 177-178). Springer, Cham.
There's loads of these. But nothing to see here right? Stupid know nothing hippies getting in the way of PROGRESS and GROWTH. People are starving because of inequities in distribution, not lack of GE.
White rice, when spoiled in storage, yellows. Experienced rice-eaters recognise un-cooked, yellowed rice as something to be avoided (it's a taste-thing, not and aesthetics-thing).
Rosemary @ 9:38 alludes to the real reason for the problem; lack of vegetables through capitalist pressures (please correct me if I’m wrong, Rosemary 🙂
You are entirely correct Robert. I am making it my mission these days to avoid stating the obvious. Allowing folks who haven't already done so to work it out for themselves.
(I'm one of those Luddite types that reckons that it is such supreme arrogance for mankind to presume to perfect in a few decades what nature has developed over millennia.
All was perfect before we buggered it up.)
I could bang on about monoculture…and I guess there's a reason why the VAD population do not grow a variety of food…but like you, I can't be arsed right now. Too busy.
Mixing potting mix and filling bags and containers for tomatoes, curcubits, sweetcorn etc currently thriving in the hothouse. Even here in the Far Far North it is still a little cool outdoors…but when it warms…I'll be ahead!
You, me and DB Brown are executives in Irrational Loonies Inc. it transpires; we should negotiate a substantial salary package from Andre before we go any further – irrational lunacy can't be expected to be provided for free!
Good on you for your foresight; the warm weather will be upon us before we know it and home-grown food is likely to be the game-changer for many New Zealand/Aotearoans 🙂 I've Running Butter Bean seedlings popping up in the warmth of our tunnel house just now. They're just like Scarlet Runners, only their long pods are butter-yellow! Exciting! Not GE, I should add 🙂
Last year…not enough stored water for summer vege gardens in poor soils. All was grown, harvested, stored and seed saved by mid January. This year…an abundance of stored water and much better soils due to green mulching. And our own sheeps' poo. Learning that 'full sun' does not work up here where the sun is so intense. (We are as far north as you are south.)Koanga heirloom seeds working well…many sourced from this rohe. Got to adapt and work with nature.
As for my food forest….I am experimenting with growing trees from seed. So far I have papaya, feijoas, persimmons, mangoes, and I started some pineapple seed sprouting this morning. Have usual grafted trees growing….but growing from seed is fun. One mate is into grafting and another is an ace at growing from cuttings.
I've just come in from harvesting some mid-winter spuds for a frittata. My mate has fresh tomatoes, outdoors, just around the corner (central Auckland), I'd have some of them on top of the frittata too if not for lockdown. Fresh herbs and greens, chives, onion, mmm. Getting hungry now. Will add cheese, because I'm a damn patriot!
So easy to do lots of food in a small space. High value nutrition, not that store bought nonsense bred into banality and sprayed into submission.
Times are certainly changing. A broad variety of types of food will see us through where monocultures can fail. I like to put lots of types of plants in various places and see which ones survive and which don't. From seed and cuttings this is a relatively cheap way to 'know your land' fairly quickly. Seasonal and weather related variance will keep you guessing long enough to keep it interesting.
The Taro retreats into a sunken path in drought, and moves upslope under the macadamia with water available. The bananas love a bowl, to retain both moisture and nutrients, but a bowl on a slope, so they don't rot in the wet. Nearly all land has some slope, a few degrees is enough. I have 3 bunches emerging on 8 stems. Another bunch ripening on my doorstep, so that was 4 bunches from 9 stems. The secret is chicken bedding, and a sweet location.
Got giant thyme grown all through winter too, plus peppers. Pulled a bonus wee kumara out while getting some spuds. Fresh as fresh ever gets. Bounty.
There's a few of us permies on my block now. We're swapping and learning together, always something to eat, still haven't utilised the half of our combined sections.
People are starving because of inequities in distribution, not lack of GE.
Please explain to me why the existence of inequities in distribution should stop efforts to improve the nutritional value of the main staple food of impoverished malnourished people.
As for loss of heirloom varieties, that is primarily driven by big ag taking over the areas where those heirloom varieties have been cultivated. It happens because of big ag, and it happens whether the monoculture is of a conventionally bred or mutation bred * or a GMO crop. It's big ag that's the problem, not the specific technique used to create the characteristics of the organism they're growing.
In the case of golden rice, it's a specific attempt to take the benefits of a powerful tool out of the hands of big ag, and give it to the small farmers to benefit from it. It's taking power out of the hands of big ag, giving it to those that have been shat upon by big ag.
* Seriously, why is mutation breeding acceptable to organic farmers and others opposed to big ag? Mutation bred organisms don't require the extensive safety testing GMOs do. But I can't think of a better technique for unleashing the triffids or Audrey 2 than inducing massive random mutations across the entire genome, then only checking and selecting for the few traits of interest. To me, the lack of opposition to mutation breeding amidst the rabid opposition to GMOs just shows how misguided and irrational the anti-GMO crowd really is.
Champions of GE to address climate change have an extraordinary blindness with regards to how evolution works, and how corporate interests are trying to control global food supplies.
Our greatest hope is more diversity, not more monoculture. Also dismantling of corporations into manageable entities that don't hold sway over governments.
Dietary advice, dietary variation, and 2 x annual vitamin A caps for youth are solving the VAD problem. While Golden Rice…
"Based on IRRI’s documents, Golden Rice contains less than 10% of an equivalent amount of beta-carotene in carrots. As mentioned above, even the US FDA took notice of the Golden Rice’s low beta-carotene content. Citing the IRRI report, the average beta-carotene of Golden Rice is a measly 1.26 µg/g, which is even lower than the 1.6 µg/g beta-carotene expression of the very first Golden Rice generation back in the 2000s."
I'm utterly disgusted at those in privileged positions in wealthy countries trying to deny a literally life-saving innovation to impoverished and malnourished people in desperate need of everything they can get to help their situation.
This particular innovation was developed and is distributed outside the control of big ag and other shitty organisation. It has zero demonstrable downsides for those people in need of it's benefits, and is a vast improvement on the other options actually available to them.
But the opposition to it in among privileged wealthy people is not based on demonstrable evidence, but appears entirely rooted in vague feels and reckons about it being against some righteous way of doing things.
Sure. And others are equally passionate because they see people starving happening because of the centre left, neoliberal politics you support. Or the BAU ag and industry you support that is killing the planet.
Explaining why you're disgusted adds to the debate because people can support or argue against your reasoning and beliefs (calling people loonies leads to flaming and people not listening to each other).
It seems to me that planting spinach or similar green leaf plants around the edges of the rice paddies would be a much better solution to vitamin A deficiency.
I think they grow lots of mangoes in the Philippines, too.
and I'm guessing (haven't read the whole thread to see if this is covered), that part of the problem is rice being grown for cash cropping rather than food for locals. The latter is more conducive to both health and ecology.
Yes. I understand Andre's concern and frustration: the issue of human health and the tragedy of the effects of malnutrition add a great deal of heat to any argument. The solutions offered seem to divide us left and right, which is telling (not sure what it tells 🙂 Your suggestions, and those of Rosemary and DB seem nuanced, holistic and multi-layered. Andre's, not so much but this might be just a matter of perception. It's an on-going puzzle.
I still have some hope that we (humans, lefties, kiwis, whoever) can develop communication that allows for development of ideas and solutions that are meeting points. The hard man, fisticuffs debate culture on the left is a problem for that, including on TS.
I also wonder if people are tired, scared, stressed, and just running out of patience for nuance and consideration. Even more need for the above in that case, but a conundrum.
Not aiming that at Andre in particular, I think most of us are struggling with the way the world is now at some level and this impacts on how we communicate or approach politics.
Breathe, and listen to your raging heart. That’s a tell-tale sign that you’re stressed. When people yell, people yell back. When people go silent, people think. More important than what is said is the pauses between, the brief moments of silence, what is not said but could be; that’s the magic moment of creation. The same in music and art in general: less is more. The old Masters and Composers knew the importance of contrast and change of tempo and volume, and silence. Enter a Mall and a wall of sound will ‘greet’ you to numb the senses and hypnotise you to buy and consume, aimlessly and senselessly. Here on TS we are bombarded with walls of words that burry the mind in an avalanche of meaningless words. We become unthinking lazy zombies with aggressive and destructive attitudes towards others. Breathe.
It seems to me that we are being "broken" by all this (see"the crises of the world") and, like caterpillars in-crysalis, we are going to be "pithed" (see, toads/experimental) by circumstance, and emerge, butterflies! 🙂
Growing golden rice doesn't prevent growing other fruits and vegetables. It's a false dichotomy to think of doing this instead of that. Better to look at all improvements that can add together.
As an improvement for impoverished malnourished people, golden rice adds significant nutritional value to the main staple food consumed by the huge majority of impoverished malnourished people. It doesn't displace anything else.
Those impoverished malnourished people would love to be able to add more varied fruits and vegetables to their diets, and maybe even occasionally animal protein, but it's other obstacles than rice supply that stand in the way of that.
Not least of which is the enormous population density of 368 people per sq km (including all the regularly erupting volcanoes). That extremely high population density really puts a premium on extracting the most calories feasible from any given plot of arable land.
For comparison, New Zealand's population density is 18 per sq km, 1/20th that of the Philippines. If someone's lived experience here is having the wealth and privilege of plenty of land to grow fruits and veges to supplement their diet largely obtained from elsewhere, then frankly they have NFI of the food supply pressures on impoverished malnourished people in places like the Philippines. Nor what mitigation measures might realistically be achievable.
Questions that present begin: is it true that "Growing golden rice doesn't prevent growing other fruits and vegetables. "
Are workers in Golden Rice fields free and able to grow their own veggies, or is their time and land taken for the money-crop? Are they pressured to work for money then spend it on "packaged" food, as is reportedly, so often the case?
As to "calories" – does Golden Rice offer more calories than other crops (DB Brown challenged that claim, elegantly, I thought).
It seems counter-intuitive to claim that "wealth and privilege" is a pre-requisite to growing fruits and veggies. Fruit and veggies have been grown by money-less communities since time-imermorial, like, forever, it seems.
I'm not nay-saying your claims, just asking for clarification.
Growing golden rice doesn't prevent the growing of other fruits and vegetables any more than growing regular rice does. The main difference golden rice has is that it puts beta-carotene into the rice grains, which regular rice doesn't. The plant as a whole isn't really doing much different, beta-carotene is present in the rest of the plant in both golden rice and regular rice. Chemically, beta-carotene is purely hydrogen and carbon, so golden rice is not taking up trace elements or scarce nitrogen or phosphorus that regular rice doesn't.
Calories wise or productivity wise, I haven't seen anything that says there's significant difference between golden rice and regular rice. It's just that rice gives very high calories per hectare compared to alternative crops on that land. Hence the pressure to grow rice rather than something else that may be more nutritious but has significantly less productivity in terms of calories. It's just the pressure to simply produce enough calories to feed that high population density.
Having the land and the time to grow veges is a manifestation of wealth and privilege. Especially in extremely high population density places, such as the Philippines, that are poor yet extensively urbanised.
Being described as wealthy and privileged may seem a WTF? moment to rural poor people, both here and in less fortunate countries. But having the time and land to grow your own varied food really is wealth and privilege compared to the conditions suffered by those that haven't "made it" in the cities. As well as those trapped in a rural cycle of feeling they have to absolutely maximise production from their land to meet external financial pressures. Or landless rural poor such as itinerant rural workers.
Hmmm… you seem to have simply reposted your original claims, rather than addressing my questions…
You say, "Growing golden rice doesn't prevent the growing of other fruits and vegetables any more than growing regular rice does."
I say, "growing regular rice, or bananas, coffee, tea etc, DOES prevent the workers from growing their own food. The land is claimed for commerce, the time is claimed for 'employment". Have you a response for this, Andre?
Then your objections should be to the existing systems of agriculture and commerce in general, and should not have any distinction between golden rice and regular rice.
Because there is no difference between golden rice and regular rice in terms of land use, labour, commerce, external inputs etc.
The only difference changing from regular rice to golden rice will be that those that are vitamin A deficient because of their diets will become less vitamin A deficient if they are able to change the regular rice they eat now over to golden rice.
Which will have follow-on beneficial effects in reducing the time and expense of vitamin A supplements. And reducing the suffering and time and expense of treating people for the effects of vitamin A deficiency.
Well, Andre, my "objections" weren't objections at all; I simply offered my view that the efforts to make Golden Rice the rice-of-choice, fell down because the locals rejected it because it looked squiffy 🙂
And, indeed, my "objections" to "the existing systems of agriculture and commerce in general" – yes, that is what I'm objecting to! GE rice fits right in there and I'm not changing my opinion just because it's clever science 🙂
In closing: growing food for your self and for your family is not something available only to those with "wealth and privilege" – it's for us all. Go well!
So you offered your view on the basis of no evidence that you have been able to provide, and are sticking to it in the face of contrary information. That's irrational.
You are continuing your objection to a specific instance of GMO rice because of your objections to the general systems of big ag. Even though that particular instance of GMO rice was specifically developed and distributed outside of big ag, specifically to enable people to break free from big ag. And help them keep out of the clutches of big medicine and big pharma. That's irrational.
You appear to cling to your belief that growing your own fuit and veg is available to everyone, despite there being numerous classes of people that do not possess the wealth and privilege of the time and land and whatever other resources needed to do so, whether it be access to natural light, sufficient water, stability or whatever else. That's irrational.
I won't use the "L" word, because that seems to be a bit triggering.
Well, Andre, you provided no "contrary information" AT ALL to my suggestion that the GE rice wasn't popular because it looked spoiled; but hei aha! I'm not, despite your claim, objecting to Golden Rice, I'm simply saying, people didn't take a shine to it. That's my understanding. I searched my memory banks, somewhat depleted though they are, and discovered that the last time I engaged in this debate was on grubby old Kiwiblog, some 10 or so years ago! I've not commented there, or rather, been allowed to comment there, for many years, so it won't be difficult, should you choose to pursue the matter, to unearth the thread of discussion there; my alter-ego, Greenfly, was flying the flag back then (it may have been Village Idiot, or perhaps Hugh Manatee, who can remember back that far 🙂
You're also being irrational about how the burden of proof works. You made the assertion, you prove it. Nobody else has to disprove any random assertion you make, it's up to you to prove it.
Wow you sure do spin a lot of spin. The rice is a non-event insofar as Vitamin A content for helping people, and the ownership is in the hands of corporations, not given away as you allude to.
The vitamin A doesn't store, even if the rice does.
You are using hyperbole. Why don't you come out and tell us we are endangering children with our objection to this nonsense.
Decades in development, nothing special to see. Just the same old push, retreat, push again till this crap has its foot in the door. Ruthless commercialism.
My opposition is not rooted in vague feelings. It is rooted in knowledge of plant physiology, plant pathology and evolution – all of which I'm pretty damn good at. Add to that a lot of years working in a lot of growing systems.
Your argument is emotionally laden abusive garbage.
The general opposition to Golden Rice is nicely described in this quote from the second site I visited:
"Golden Rice is a techno-fix to malnutrition and a corporate ploy to control our agriculture. It is not needed by Asian people nor the world. Indeed, the solution to hunger and malnutrition lies in comprehensive approaches that ensure people have access to diverse sources of nutrition. Securing small farmers’ control over resources such as seed, appropriate technologies, water and land is the real key to improving food production and eradicating hunger and malnutrition."
"Finally, there are social and cultural roadblocks. There are eating preferences deeply rooted in longstanding tradition. The yellow color of the rice may not be accepted because of different countries’ social and cultural history. (MASIPAG)."
Very very weak. To the point that I question your reading comprehension skills.
It doesn't say anything whatsoever about where those countries with resistance might be. It might be African or South American countries with cultural resistance to yellow rice. It doesn't even mention spoilage at all. It appears to be trying to reference MASIPAG as a source, but even that weak claim doesn't appear on MASIPAG's current gish-gallop of misinformation about why they oppose golden rice.
The Science Based Medicine article I started the thread with addresses the misinformation and misdirection techniques MASIPAG uses, but here it is again.
Thanks for the link, Andre – it looks top-drawer, only it'll be wasted on me and my questionable reading comprehension skills. I'll stick with believing there are better ways to improve health than eating GE foods. I could be wrong about that, but it doesn't feel that way 🙂
When you hear things described as unsustainable, know that it means that it will not remain….this situation will not be tolerated forever and then everyone loses….including those who think they are insulated.
Yet for some reason unexplained Australia – that nation so hated by the left – with policies very similar to NZ seems not to have a 'housing crisis'. Sure there are always marginalised in any society who will face homelessness and housing difficulties, but for the most part quality and affordability are not issues on the same scale they are in NZ except maybe in parts of Sydney and Melbourne.
Hell we're looking at buying some retirement units in Brisbane for $70k each. Think about that.
Part of the story is geography, there is just so much land in Aus compared to NZ. Another part is an efficient building industry, and another is a solid ASX that provides and alternative investment vehicle for people looking to fund their retirement. By comparison NZ is on the back foot on all of these measures. Still if you think the solution is to hope for the system to collapse …
Australia has the same ponzi problem albeit slightly less pronounced .
The issues are not based in land availability or construction constraints but in credit…the basis of western economies since production was abandoned as the basis of growth.
The 'solution' will occur, whether it is a collapse of the housing ponzi that occurs before or in tandem with societal breakdown is the only question…thats what unsustainable means.
Pretty sad, that such a mover and shaker like yourself is found here, rutting about in the mud with the hoi polloi. Don't you have real poor people to denigrate?
Opening an industrial plant, what a manly man. In the meantime, climate change. You're just depressing.
That's why walruses are jumping off cliffs.
That's why possums jump in front of cars.
You know we've got polar bears coming down from the North trying to mate with brown bears. That's an endangered species trying to sleep with a common species in order to save themselves.
Interesting how that comment of mine above hit a nerve, obviously ironic as it was meant to be. Your reaction being a classic Karpman drama, you set the 'real poor people' up as the victims, me as their oppressor and your brave self as their rescuer. It's a con game – always has been.
Opening an industrial plant, what a manly man. In the meantime, climate change. You're just depressing.
Same plant that will be producing the first battery grade lithium hydroxide in Australia.
You're clearly a well educated and capable person with a great deal of experience. So far I've been reading your fresh contributions here with some considerable interest. While I definitely have an idealist streak, one that has kept me active here since the site was started in 2007, over time I've definitely become more pragmatic in that reality demands we consider all of the effective tools available to us – and that includes many of the themes you've been writing about.
In respect of climate change I've written here previously that the solution will come from a combination of both an agricultural, industrial and ultimately a political evolution expressing the fundamental unity of the human species. Clearly each of these themes is so extensive no single individual can grasp any single one, much less all three. Which is why we need to understand how to build each other up, communicate effectively and act with common purpose.
In respect of climate change I’ve written here previously that the solution will come from a combination of both an agricultural, industrial and ultimately a political evolution expressing the fundamental unity of the human species.
On that, in the industrial front.
There was an annoying video article in Stuff about something that I didn’t think would actually happen. Producing and delivering steel made without coal or carbon is important. About 8% of the worlds emmissions are from making steel, and most of that is from the coking coal. I didn’t think that there was a realistic way out of that. Because we need steel to run a technology based economy similar to our current one. Certainly need it to transition to any other without a human die-back.
A Reuters text article explains it and it has the promo clip at the top. However it doesn’t explain the process apart from saying that they’re using Hydrogen.
A Forbes article from last year gives a better explanation. At a 20-30% cost above normal production costs, it is easily within a industrial roll-out level. Just add carbon taxes or costs.
By my reckoning, at a technical level, that leaves just 3 areas of technological concern. Concrete, mass air-travel, and shipping as large emitters with no current effective low or no-carbon emitter technology to be developed.
"Still if you think the solution is to hope for the system to collapse …"
I think Pat might have said the opposite to that, i.e. "this situation will not be tolerated forever and then everyone loses…" Those of us who care about actual outcomes are terrified of collapse, because we know that it will do the most harm to those already at the bottom of the pile. I favour radically truthful diagnoses of a problem, but very careful responses. The first part is important, because without it we will never summon the collective will to do anything.
The only trouble I have with a housing market collapse is that it can fall one of two ways: secure housing becomes possible for poorer people in their lifetime; or dwelling ownership becomes more concentrated as the upper middle class are kicked out of an exclusive club they were never wanted in from the start.
It will (not can) collapse because those that ultimately support it (those 'poorer' renters) cannot continue to support additional inflation and the raison d'etre disappears…..that pool gets larger and poorer by the auction.
A big reason is the very light weight and fragile nature of Aussie houses, no earthquake regulations and a lot less insulation to worry about , for instance when we build in ex100x50 at 450 to 600 centres they only need or used to when I was there ex75x35 and far wider centres. Not much fun in a cyclone but then when did the Aussies care much about sensible precautions anyway.
We were house and cat sitting in Redcliffe on the Sunshine Coast four years ago. I saw a small movement on a board in the bathroom.. it was a termite munching a hole at quickly as I type this.
Luckily they had their yearly pest inspection happening that afternoon. It was dealt with. I thought "Wow! wood is no good unless it is treated or turpentine timber’, and nearby steel framing was going into newly built properties.
Results from a new high-quality trial of ivermectin are starting to come out. Not a final report, yet, but today is the first time I've seen info straight from the researchers. Conclusion: ivermectin doesn't do anything significantly useful against covid.
However, they did find that a different repurposed older drug, fluvoxamine, appears to have enough beneficial effects to be a useful addition to treatment regimes.
There does indeed appear to be Big Pharma grifting going on over covid.
But the grifters aren't the vaccine manufacturers selling a safe product that actually mostly prevents getting infected and almost completely prevents serious disease and death for $50 for a 2-dose course.
Not compared to those selling a treatment that runs $1000 a course for treating the disease. That appear to have financial connections to lawmakers taking actions that appear intended to reduce vaccination rates and increase disease rates.
If you listened to whingy Eastwood getting arrested (and livestreaming the event for attention so this is entirely fair game) you'd see the format simply reflects his increasing hysteria and ridiculous plea for attention.
kind of but the text in tweet in #7 is also enlarged for effect so hard to use as an example. I was meaning tweets generally. I'll screenshot next time I see one
I've never heard of this Vinnie Eastwood. When I saw the above clip, what I thought I saw was a piss-take; reading his smile and listening to his words it sounded like an actor on amateur dram night at the local repertory tasked to address a street corner meeting as a young Winston Churchill.
If I recognise him correctly, I've had the unpleasant experience of seeing him at TPPA protests in Auckland… megaphone in hand, rattling off on a tangent from why most were there.
Thought so too. Never understood the negativity directed at "the mozzie's third rate stenography efforts". Over the years I've found some of Morrissey's comments here to be LOL funny. Not everyone's cuppa, sure, but good medicine for me – thanks Moz.
JUDITH ("Rosa") COLLINS. A brutal, intimidating woman with the looks and personality of the James Bond villain, Rosa Klebs. Collins has replaced the lovely K****rine R*ch as the National Party's "social welfare" spokeswoman. To many observers, this position sits oddly against her former role as a corporate lawyer for the casino industry. https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-22-12-2017/#comment-1429231
To be fair, sometimes he tickles the funny bone. With a strong emphasis on sometimes. If I saw a comic with that hit rate I'd avoid their performances.
There are comics with a similar hit rate self promoting ceaselessly as well. It does nothing to endear me to them.
When it comes to humour, one person's 'never' is another's 'sometimes' and a third person's 'often' – 'always' might be pushing it, but you never know.
I enjoy them too. So much faster to read than to listen, and Morrissey's take just relates to my sense of humour. I'm in no two minds about how he views certain people, and that appeals to me as he doesn't hide behind well-chosen words and sideways references.
Most readers should be able to distinguish narrative from framing, and interpret independently. But I get a fair few chuckles from Morrissey's framing.
So if we taxed that at 1c a gigabyte, around $95,000,000 a year would be available to (for example) NZ on Air to spend on NZ content for converged media.
Jeepers that seems a lot but to an untrained eye like mine it's also a mostly meaningless number. Though I appreciate the netflix analogy to try wrap my head around it…
That's like 365 000 people running netflix for 24 hours. Not THAT huge.
Agree on the tax, but how would they implement it. Streaming services are cheap but I'm sure they'll jack the prices once free alternatives like TVNZ have been buried. The tax might save local content from said burial.
The same amount of money would be obtained by a 1c per litre tax on oil consumed in NZ at about 150,000 barrels per day. I say this because I'm interested as to why there should be a tax on internet usage to fund NZ on Air.
I wonder what is the size of the carbon footprint of using 26 petabytes of data daily? That might better direct any possible data consumption tax (DST?) to a more applicable usage, like climate change concerns for example.
"… I say this because I'm interested as to why there should be a tax on internet usage to fund NZ on Air…"
It is the 21st century equivalent of the old fashioned TV license for to pay for public content, with the bonus it can be collected at source – the ISPs and phone providers
I use about 20GB a month on my phone, so for me it would be 20c a month on my phone bill and about $6-8 a month on our internet bill.
Great. That means that about 84% of our population now have an approved vaccine to take.
Pfizer apparently expect to submit data for 5 to 11 year olds in September, so when that happens we'll have a vaccine approved for about 94% of our population.
This is nuts, children are least affected by the virus by a long way, and they're poor spreaders of it. Why are children being offered vaccination??
"Researchers estimate that 25 deaths in a population of some 12 million children in England gives a broad, overall mortality rate of 2 per million children."
Because "least affected" is not the same as "not affected". Covid is sufficiently harmful that even the least affected age group still suffer unacceptable harms. So it makes sense to reduce those potential harms as much as possible. By vaccinating them.
Children can still transmit the virus, even if not as much as adults. So from a public health perspective, it's best to reduce as much as possible the size of the population that get become infected and potential transmit to others. Vaccination achieves this.
mauī, developed and more fortunate under-developed countries vaccinate children against viral diseases. What's your main concern about vaccinating 12-15 year olds against Covid-19, and why do you think that health experts recommend vaccination?
And with the more transmissible Delta variant accounting now for nearly 99% of cases in the US, the situation is growing particularly dangerous for children, experts said.
They have advocated for children to wear masks in school, but some governors have attempted to ban such requirements.
"Why tie the hands of the public health officials behind their backs? You have two weapons here, one is vaccines the other is masking, and for children less than 12 that's the only weapon they have," Dr. Paul Offit, a member of the US Food and Drug Administration's vaccine advisory committee, told CNN's Erin Burnett.
Hotez said the US is now at a "screaming level of virus transmission," adding that to really interrupt the spread, 80 to 85% of the population will need to be vaccinated.
"We know from past epidemics what that means, the best way to do this is to vaccinate your way out of it in collaboration with masks," Hotez said. "We can't be either, or — the only way we are going to defeat this virus is with both."
Whatever else the future holds, if Covid-19 persists in some form then presumably you’ll have no objection to those 12-15 year olds getting jabs in 3 – 6 years’ time.
The general feeling I have on it is treating children who already have a robust immune response and aren't a risk group for disease, with a new medical treatment still undergoing testing and awaiting full approval is not what decent societies do.
Thanks; regrettably 'very low risk' isn't 'zero risk'. Imho decisions to vaccinate children should be left up to (responsible) parents, as is currently the case.
Any concerns about that, and any ideas about how best to protect children who have a less than robust immune system, or are otherwise 'Covid-unlucky'?
Kids Can't Get COVID-19 Vaccines Yet. But We Do Have Ways to Protect Them [17 August 2021] As of the most recent data, some 4.3 million children have tested positive for COVID-19. This number is likely an underestimate, as some children can become infected but show no or only milder symptoms and may not get tested. But, despite some claims to the contrary, not all children cope so well with infection. In the U.S., well over 17,000 children have been hospitalized with COVID-19, thousands have developed a severe, life-threatening post-COVID-19 illness that impacts the heart, and hundreds have died from this now vaccine-preventable disease. As the highly transmissible SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant triggers a steep incline in COVID-19 infections across the U.S., pediatric cases, too, are rising dramatically. We must protect our children.
We don't know if people died ofcovid, or with covid (see below). Which to my mind does call into question not only that statistic, but the other stats used in that piece.
"A tremendous number of government and private policies affecting kids are based on one number: 335. That is how many children under 18 have died with a Covid diagnosis code in their record, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Yet the CDC, which has 21,000 employees, hasn’t researched each death to find out whether Covid caused it or if it involved a pre-existing medical condition."
"Yet the CDC, which has 21,000 employees, hasn’t researched each death to find out whether Covid caused it or if it involved a pre-existing medical condition."
I'm afraid your link does have the familiar tinge of propaganda…
Please, don't be afraid. Not sure what's motivating your attempts to minimise the impact of this pandemic on young people. Are you implying that the CDC is exaggerating Covid deaths, and if so then to what possible end? Excess mortality analyses suggest that deaths due to Covid-19 infection have typically been underestimated.
Here's some more grist to your propaganda/conspiracy mill.
The government's push to get Germany's youth vaccinated comes two months after the European Medicines Agency recommended that the coronavirus vaccine made by Pfizer-BioNTech be expanded to children 12 to 15. Last week, the EU drug regulator also cleared the vaccine made by Moderna for the same age group.
1. All those aged 12 to 15 years should be offered an mRNA vaccine to protect themselves from frequent mild or very rare severe COVID-19 and its consequences (e.g., long COVID, MIS-C).
2. Those with underlying medical conditions are strongly encouraged to accept vaccination as soon as it is offered.
3. Those living with someone at risk of severe COVID-19 are strongly encouraged to accept the vaccination as soon as it is offerede.g. a younger child with complex medical needs, or with an immunocompromised adult
A parent or legal guardian will need to consent for a child aged 12-15 to be vaccinated. The parent’s decision to give consent for the vaccine or not will be respected. To help people make an informed decision there is a detailed information leaflet available on each vaccine produced by the HSE in addition to other materials such as a decision aid and this document.
And here's an informative and (imho) balanced article [9 August] – something for everyone; just please don't label it propaganda.
You could ask what thousands of parents who owe their children's lives to other experimental surgeries and treatments think.
You could also ask the parents of children who didn’t survive experimental surgeries or treatments, and gauge their reflections on whether hopes for success or contributing to aid efforts to eliminate diseases, is too high a price to pay to avoid suffering or death.
It's possible they may view things a bit differently. Mile in who's shoes?
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In the ever-evolving world of technology, server-based computing has emerged as a cornerstone of modern digital infrastructure. This article delves into the concept of server-based computing, exploring its various forms, benefits, challenges, and its impact on the way we work and interact with technology. Understanding Server-Based Computing: At its core, ...
The absolute brass neck of this guy.We want more medical doctors, not more spin doctors, Luxon was saying a couple of weeks ago, and now we’re told the guy has seven salaried adults on TikTok duty. Sorry, doing social media. The absolute brass neck of it. The irony that the ...
Buzz from the Beehive Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones relishes spatting and eagerly takes issue with environmentalists who criticise his enthusiasm for resource development. He relishes helping the fishing industry too. And so today, while the media are making much of the latest culling in the public service to ...
Having written, taught and worked for the US government on issues involving unconventional warfare and terrorism for 30-odd years, two things irritate me the most when the subject is discussed in public. The first is the Johnny-come-lately academics-turned-media commentators who … Continue reading → ...
Eric Crampton writes – Kainga Ora is the government’s house building agency. It’s been building a lot of social housing. Kainga Ora has its own (but independent) consenting authority, Consentium. It’s a neat idea. Rather than have to deal with building consents across each different territorial authority, Kainga Ora ...
Muriel Newman writes – The Coalition Government says it is moving with speed to deliver campaign promises and reverse the damage done by Labour. One of their key commitments is to “defend the principle that New Zealanders are equal before the law.” To achieve this, they have pledged they “will not advance ...
Chris Trotter writes – The absence of anything resembling a fightback from the public servants currently losing their jobs is interesting. State-sector workers’ collective fatalism in the face of Coalition cutbacks indicates a surprisingly broad acceptance of impermanence in the workplace. Fifty years ago, lay-offs in the thousands ...
Mariupol, on the Azov Sea coast, was one of the first cities to suffer almost complete destruction after the start of the Ukraine War started in late February 2022. We remember the scenes of absolute destruction of the houses and city structures. The deaths of innocent civilians – many of ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – Ten years ago, I wrote the following in a Listener column: Every year around one in five new-born babies will be reliant on their caregivers benefit by Christmas. This pattern has persisted from at least 1993. For Maori the number jumps to over one in three. ...
Climate change is expected to generate more and more extreme events, delivering a sort of structural shock to inflation that central banks will have to react to as if they were short-term cyclical issues. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāMy pick of the six newsey things to know from Aotearoa’s ...
It’s a simple deal. We pay taxes in order to finance the social services we want and need. The carnage now occurring across the public sector though, is breaking that contract. Over 3,000 jobs have been lost so far. Many are in crucial areas like Education where the impact of ...
Hi,A friend had their 40th over the weekend and decided to theme it after Curb Your Enthusiasm fashion icon Susie Greene. Captured in my tiny kitchen before I left the house, I ending up evoking a mix of old lesbian and Hillary Clinton — both unintentional.Me vs Hillary ClintonIf you’re ...
This is a re-post from Andrew Dessler at the Climate Brink blogIn 2023, the Earth reached temperature levels unprecedented in modern times. Given that, it’s reasonable to ask: What’s going on? There’s been lots of discussions by scientists about whether this is just the normal progression of global warming or if something ...
The schools are on holiday and the sun is shining in the seaside village and all day long I have been seeing bunches of bikes; Mums, Dads, teens and toddlers chattering, laughing, happy, having a bloody great time together. Cheers, AT, for the bits of lane you’ve added lately around the ...
Today in our National-led authoritarian nightmare: Shane Jones thinks Ministers should be above the law: New Zealand First MP Shane Jones is accusing the Waitangi Tribunal of over-stepping its mandate by subpoenaing a minister for its urgent hearing on the Oranga Tamariki claim. The tribunal is looking into the ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
The Government’s newly announced review of methane emissions reduction targets hints at its desire to delay Aotearoa New Zealand’s urgent transition to a climate safe future, the Green Party said. ...
The Government must commit to the Maitai School building project for students with high and complex needs, to ensure disabled students from the top of the South Island have somewhere to learn. ...
Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey and his Government colleagues have made a meal of their mental health commitments, showing how flimsy their efforts to champion the issue truly are, says Labour Mental Health spokesperson Ingrid Leary. ...
Māori are yet to see anything from this Government except cuts, reversals and taking our people backwards, Māori Development spokesperson Willie Jackson said. ...
The Coalition Government’s refusal to commit to ongoing funding for social housing is seeing the sector pull back on developments and families watch their dreams of securing a home fade away, says Labour Housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner. The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom. “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel. “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says. "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board. “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti. “I have asked her to ...
The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States. “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
By Koroi Hawkins, RNZ Pacific editor in Honiara Solomon Islands’ incumbent prime minister Manasseh Sogavare has been re-elected in the East Choiseul constituency. It is the opening move in the political chess match to form the country’s next government. Returning officer Christopher Makoni made the declaration late last night after ...
Headline: The moment of friction. – 36th Parallel Assessments In strategic studies “friction” is a term that it is used to describe the moment when military action encounters adversary resistance. “Friction” is one of four (along with an unofficial fifth) “F’s” in military strategy, which includes force (kinetic mass), ...
The Fast-track Bill, if passed, would allow three Ministers, unchallenged and unchecked, to approve the immediate extraction and exhaustion of one-off resources. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Duckett, Honorary Enterprise Professor, School of Population and Global Health, and Department of General Practice and Primary Care, The University of Melbourne iamharin/Shutterstock For many people, the term “bulk billed” refers to a GP visit they don’t have to pay ...
Emmas Hislop, Sidnam and Wehipeihana discuss what’s in a name. Emma Sidnam: Hello Emmas! Thank you so much for agreeing to do this with me. My first question for you is related to what’s been on my mind for a while. It’s very important. You see we’ve recently had some ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Sievers, Research Fellow, Global Wetlands Project, Australia Rivers Institute, Griffith University Chris Brown Humans love the coast. But we love it to death, so much so we’ve destroyed valuable coastal habitat – in the case of some types of habitat, ...
Josh Thomson on the 80s milk ad jingle he can’t stop singing, the beauty of The Simpsons, why Jersey Shore is as good as Shakespeare and more. For someone who spends a lot of time on our screens, popping up in everything from 7 Days to Taskmaster, Educators to Good ...
In apparent defiance of the Biden administration, the Netanyahu government has now initiated missile strikes against Iran. Last Saturday night (Sunday morning in New Zealand) Iran launched more than 300 drones, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles against Israeli military targets. With the assistance of US, UK and possibly French forces, ...
Māori representation brings a perspective that encompasses not only the interests of Māori communities but also a broader, holistic approach to environmental stewardship and community well-being, principles deeply embedded in Te Ao Māori (the Māori ...
This week in Auckland, a group of young people took over the microphone at a ministerial press conference, to explain why they oppose the Fast-Track Approvals Bill. One young woman said, ‘We’re here because we love Aotearoa New Zealand. We want to raise our children in an environment that’s thriving, ...
The summer was wonderful. Evie was wonderful, too; finally a teenager, finally worthy of long, hot days. She shaved her legs for the first time and bought cut-off shorts from the op-shop that made them look long. She got a Warehouse singlet so tight on her new shape that her ...
When Thomas James was on his solo camp as part of Outward Bound, the keen outdoorsman didn’t find it too challenging, as others often do. In what might just be the perfect illustration of his character, he saw it as a great opportunity to solve a few problems. “I thought, ...
From the unstable and drippy to the hi-tech and pretty, here’s our ranking of all the tunnels you can drive through in this country. The first tunnel seems to have been built in 2200BC in Babylonia, kicking off a global phenomenon for digging holes in order to get places more ...
Lucinda Bennett on the art of being greedy but resourceful. This is an excerpt from our weekly food newsletter, The Boil Up. When I picture the market, it is always this time of year. Crisp air, dripping nose, counting coins with cold fingers. Sunlight pale, filtered through specks of dew still ...
Zoë Colling’s favourite piece in the ‘That’s So Last Century’ collection is a lubrication chart for a sewing machine from the ’60s. It’s about the size of a postcard, and carefully maintained. “I like it that this piece of ephemera highlights that manual and technical side of the skill involved ...
Kia Ora Gaza A passionate haka reverberated through Auckland International Airport as a medical team of three New Zealand doctors received an emotional farewell from a big crowd of supporters before flying to Turkey to join the international Freedom Flotilla to Gaza. The doctors, who left Auckland yesterday, hope to ...
With submissions closing today, Macassey-Pickard says groups around the country have been supporting a huge range of people to make their submissions. ...
Our response to the new legislation is informed by targeted conversations with practitioners working in the system and through an implementation lens. ...
The new ‘Fast-track Approvals Bill’ would give just three Ministers the power to approve or deny development projects. They would avoid the usual checks and balances that are in place to protect rivers, land, the ocean, and communities. ...
COMMENTARY:By Eugene Doyle Helen Clark, how I miss you. The former New Zealand Prime Minister — the safest pair of hands this country has had in living memory — gave a masterclass on the importance of maintaining an independent foreign policy when she spoke at an AUKUS symposium held ...
The government's released the list of organisations provided with information on how to apply - just hours before public submissions on the bill close. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Milton Speer, Visiting Fellow, School of Mathematical and Physical Sciences, University of Technology Sydney Before climate change really got going, eastern Australia’s flash floods tended to concentrate on our coastal regions, east of the Great Dividing Range. But that’s changing. Now ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Elizabeth Finkel, Vice-Chancellor’s Fellow, La Trobe University Sia Duff / South Australian Museum In February, the South Australian Museum “re-imagined” itself. In the face of rising costs and inadequate government funds, CEO David Gaimster, who took the reins last June, declared ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alan Pearce, Professor, School of Allied Heath, Human Services & Sport, La Trobe University, La Trobe University This week, Collingwood AFL player Nathan Murphy announced his retirement, brought on by his concussion history and ongoing issues. The 24-year-old’s seemingly sudden retirement, ...
The Mental Health Foundation provides support and resources for those facing the loss of their job, so it’s wrong in the very week the Government adds another 1000 jobs to its tally of cuts, that this is happening. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexander Howard, Senior Lecturer, Discipline of English and Writing, University of Sydney Daniel Boud/Sydney Theatre Company Decay, terror, revulsion. These are three of the central themes of Thomas Bernhard’s rarely performed play The President. The Austrian is one of the greatest ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says threats by ministers Shane Jones and David Seymour to reform or close down the Waitangi Tribunal were “ill-considered”, as legal experts say the ministers may have breached Cabinet Manual conventions. “I think those comments are ill-considered and we expect all ministers to actually exercise good ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ye In (Jane) Hwang, Postdoctoral Research Associate at School of Population Health, UNSW Sydney Shutterstock You’d be hard pressed to find any aspect of daily life that doesn’t require some form of digital literacy. We need only to look back ten ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rob Newton, Professor of Exercise Medicine, Edith Cowan University Pexels/RDNE stock project You’re not in your 20s or 30s anymore and you know regular health checks are important. So you go to your GP. During the appointment they measure your waist. ...
A new poem by Evangeline Riddiford Graham. Mitochondrial Problem I. It was long drive to Kansas for the man and his dog but you have to understand he said She doesn’t fly. Which calls to mind not carsick shitting barking or whining but a dog who chooses not to as ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Hemingway’s Goblet by Dermot Ross (Mary Egan Publishing, $38)Hot off the press, this debut ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laura Wajnryb McDonald, PhD candidate in Criminology, University of Sydney Less than 24 hours after Ashlee Good was murdered in Bondi Junction, her family released a statement requesting the media take down photographs they had reproduced of Ashlee and her family without ...
Chief executive Shaun Robinson said it has not had any government funding cut, but government-funded contracts have not kept pace with rising costs. ...
The Ministry of Health has delayed the release of its evidence brief on the safety, reversibility and mental health and wellbeing outcomes for puberty blockers. While we wait, Julia de Bres speaks to those with firsthand experience. Best practice gender-affirming healthcare is based on trans people’s self-determination and agency. The ...
Barcelona’s city streets have gone from traffic-clogged to pedestrian-friendly. How? Superblocks. Ellen Rykers explains. This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof. Sign up here. Last week I read a great interview with renowned urbanist Janette Sadik-Khan by The Spinoff’s Wellington editor Joel MacManus: “You can reimagine streets, ...
Student groups ‘Climate Action VUW’, Schools Strike 4 Climate and VUWSA will be on the street in Wellington today, the last day for submissions on the Fast-track Approvals Bill, with a message that the fight against the Government’s ‘War on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sofia Ammassari, Research Fellow, Griffith University Since 2014, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s popularity has grown exponentially – and so has the formidable organisational machine of his Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP). These two factors will be key to delivering the BJP a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Brendon Hyndman, Associate Professor of Education (Adjunct) & Senior Manager (BCE), Charles Sturt University During COVID almost all Australian students and their families experienced online learning. But while schools have long since gone back to in-person teaching, online learning has not gone ...
Yes, they’re better for the environment. No, that’s not a good enough reason for me to use them. Once every 26 days or so, my period arrives, and if struck by an act of God, I am caught red-crotched without products. How, after 17 years of this, do I still ...
“It will cause significant harm to our environment and communities. It is completely at odds with New Zealanders’ relationship with nature and our need for a low-carbon, sustainable economic future." ...
The Chair of the National Maori Authority, Matthew Tukaki, has warned a Parliamentary Select Committee that fast-tracking legislation is a perilous practice that undermines the core tenets of democracy, transparency, and accountability. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tim Tenbensel, Associate Professor, Health Policy, University of Auckland, Waipapa Taumata Rau Getty Images Since coming into power, the coalition government has adopted a simple but shrewd see-how-fast-we-can-move political strategy. However, in the health sector this need for speed entails ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anastasia Hronis, Clinical Psychologist, University of Technology Sydney Darya Sannikova/Pexels Whether you’re watching TV, attending a footy game, or eating a meal at your local pub, gambling is hard to escape. Although the rise of gambling is not unique to Australia, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Wong, Forrest Fellow, School of Biological Sciences, The University of Western Australia Have you ever wondered if there are more insects out at night than during the day? We set out to answer this question by combing through the scientific ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Carol T Kulik, Research Professor, University of South Australia IR Stone/Shutterstock In Australia, it’s not the done thing to know – let alone ask – what our colleagues are paid. Yet, it’s easy to see how pay transparency can make pay ...
The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) is sounding a warning to migrants, that running foul of the law may see them leaving the country prematurely. ...
The government’s plan to get 50,000 people off jobseeker support by 2030 has had a rocky start, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. Beneficiary numbers are up – and so are ...
Raglan Roast is a staple of Wellington coffee culture. But with five branches across the capital, which one is the best? I am a die-hard Raglan Roast fan. It’s consistently the most affordable cafe in Wellington, and one of the only places you can get a coffee after 3pm. So, ...
Residents of University of Auckland halls are being urged to withhold their accommodation fees from May 1, in a bid to force the university to take student concerns over rent hikes seriously.The University of Auckland is facing a strike from students over the cost of on-campus accommodation. The Students ...
New Zealand and the Philippines have signed a new maritime security agreement and stated their concerns over activity in the South China Sea, as Chinese vessels continue to flout international law. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Philippines President Ferdinand “Bongbong” Marcos committed to signing a Mutual Logistics Supporting Arrangement by ...
The thousands of government “back-office” job cuts are causing widespread pain in the capital city. In today’s episode of The Detail, we speak to three journalists and a think tank researcher, looking at the larger picture around the cuts and what effect it will have on Wellington, a city that’s ...
Opinion: The famed American architect and urban designer Daniel Burnham once said, “Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men’s blood!” Burnham wouldn’t have been referring to the transport plans in Aotearoa New Zealand over the past five years; projects so big they hadn’t the credibility to ...
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I see an airnz crew member's tested positive that's fully vaccinated who was on the Tokyo run.
NSW has screwed Oz and us in the procces, were those Olympics and holidays worth it folks !
Sure were. Fuck living in your grim servile vision of the world.
you don’t like vaccination, you don’t want delta, so freedom must suffer.
out of interest, what about our Paralympians?
Absolutely agree. Some people just want to "shut up shop" and hide away forever.
100% . Fortunately I sense those "shut up shop" followers of our dear leader are declining in number rather rapidly at the moment.
Shut up shop makes sense while many of us that want protection from the disease haven't yet had the opportunity to get it. Me included. So I fully support the current round of shut up shop, and I'm mildly annoyed that the travel bubble with Australia was even opened in the first place, let alone how long they left it before closing it.
Once everyone that wants vaccination has had it, I don't think shut up shop will make sense anymore. Based on the published plans, it looks to me like our government won't be using shut up shop as the strategy from then, either.
Considering that vaccine approval down to the age of five (or even 2) is fairly likely to happen late this year, the vaccine rollout will likely extend to early next year. Which is the point when I would expect the shut up shop strategy to end, and new strategies to start.
It's the antis who're declining in numbers and health davy.
Some people just want to "shut up shop" and hide away forever.
What is your position on having a lockdown?
Lockdown only needed at the moment IMO because not enough people vaccinated. If 80% vaccinated could just do level 2 by regions.
There is a lot riding on the success of vaccination and the current vaccines. At least I know where I am with a lockdown.
I plan to go a day at a time.
Regions porous. Easy movement between. Holiday homes example.
No, They just want to do what has to be done to keep everyone safe. It's social responsibility, not individual, personal self interest.
"…so freedom must suffer…"
Out of curiosity, what do you consider freedom to be?
I don't want to speak for DukeEll, but to me the following freedoms from our Bill of Rights are very important:
The current severe risk of nasty disease and death certainly justifies the current restrictions on those rights.
But once everyone has had reasonable opportunity to get highly effective protection from severe disease and death, by getting vaccinated, then it will no longer be reasonable or justifiable to continue severely restricting those rights and freedoms.
Does the Public Act 70 special powers of the medical officer of health override the Bill of Rights Act when it comes to public assembly?
I think you're referring to Section 70 of the Public Health Act.
This appears to cover public assembly. But I'm not a lawyer, so don't take my word for it.
Thanks for that and the correction.
I was wondering more about his idea of freedom, rather than how legislation defines it, but thanks for that.
(There are also non-legislated moral and ethical codes, as well as social responsibilities, but I thought to give him a chance to start on the small stuff. See if he can handle the heavy lifting…)
Freedom from “vaccine hesitant” fuckwits would be a great start. They can take partial responsibility for COVID lockdowns and it’s outrageous the government has to take these peoples abhorrent views into account for public safety reasons.
That seems a little harsh considering our vaccination situation right now.
But when we get to the situation that everyone that wants vaccination has had a reasonable chance to get it, I'll probably be saying even harsher things if we still have lockdowns and closed borders.
I might not put it in such strong language but agree 100% with your sentiments Duke. Appears our government is and will continue to pander to said group.
We're doing a solid rollout, but antivaxxers have nothing to do with this lockdown.
Shit happens.
"Servile". Oh I see you would rather be selfish and "Free". Twisting this situation to say the leaders in Health and Politics are cowing people is absolute tripe.
The servility you see is actually recognition of a dangerous and costly situation. Any other response is actually ridiculous. We get one chance to get this right, and this pandemic is getting worse round the world.
The rapid growth of the cluster, the age of the ill indicate the danger of of this highly infectious virus. We are in a "war" situation and "shutting up shop" is necessary.
That "Dear Leader" business is a very poor argument at any time. Politics should be put aside. The virus will infect Left Right and Centre.
Shutting up shop is only necessary because we have had an absolutely pathetic vaccine stoll-out thus far. New Zealand and Australia have handled the stroll out very badly and we are now paying the price. A complete lack of urgency because we apparently didn't have covid. Well guess what. Knock, knock, its here!
You can spin this which ever way you want. However all roads come back to dear leader and her band of merry followers. Period.
I hope you find some peace. Will not bother repeating any information about where we stand globally on access to vaccines and why.
I'll help you out:
Where – 118th globally
Why – because we didn't bother ordering until January because we apparently don't have covid
there there
Israel
David, your "complete lack of urgency" line and that "dear leader and her band of merry followers" jab read like spin. The speed of NZ’s vaccine roll out is determined by vaccine supply (duh!) Rather than focus on the "stroll out", ihmo we should focus on what our Govt could have done to secure vaccine doses more rapidly, and should be doing now as the global number of active Covid-19 cases (currently 17,482,862) continues to soar towards the crest of this pandemic's third wave.
For example, it might be good to have a discussion about whether using vaccines other than Pfizer's COMIRNATY is worth exploring, if NZ does indeed have spare doses of other Covid-19 vaccines, e.g. AZ doses diverted from Italy to Fiji. Or should the NZ government consider increasing taxes to fund the development of a dedicated vaccine production facility in NZ as insurance against future pandemics?
As this pandemic rolls on, remember that NZ's Covid-19 statistics (both cases per million (= 587), and deaths per million (= 5)) place us in an enviable position. Some NZers know just how 'Covid-lucky' we are – go team, get your jabs; I've had mine!
https://covid19.govt.nz/
We didn’t have vaccines like the 117 countries ahead of us because we didn’t order them until January. To have supply you need to order. Duh!
Next issue on the horizon … boosters. Guessing we’ve learned our lesson and have ordered those early.
Link?
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-strategy-planning-insights/covid-19-purchasing-vaccines
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300250582/covid19-vaccine-rollout-to-resume-from-8am-on-thursday-after-pause
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/449333/new-zealand-to-trial-new-covid-19-vaccine
Heads of agreement is not an order. An order is an order. First order 54k vaccines order placed January
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-national-questions-front-of-queue-claim-after-revealing-first-pfizer-order-just-54000-doses/OBVQ22LAZOPFTROFBEWVI4BCAU/
Thanks for the link. We know Comirnaty is safe, now, but did Medsafe drag the chain? They had 49 staff ~20 years ago, and around 60 now.
Israel has a 7-day moving average of 20 deaths/day from Covid-19. Scaled for population that would translate to 10 Kiwis dying every day. The current death rate in NZ is 0. Just saying.
Inconveniently high vaccination trend here now too.
https://twitter.com/David_Cormack/status/1428218856561020936
Doesn't include yesterday.
Yes, I am throwing a tantrum because my jab got cancelled and now it's another three weeks before I'll get it. Thanks for asking.
You have my most sincere sympathy.
Does this mean I should forget this comment?
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-09-08-2021/#comment-1807868
I don’t see why it doesn’t point to your precise comment. It is in the bit I copied.
I added this bit and now it does point to it.
Nah, don't forget it. Keep it on file and rub my nose in it any time you feel like it. Although I'm sure I've made much nastier comments that would be much better for rubbing my nose in.
BTW, the only comment I made on that OM was this one, which seems very innocuous by my standards.
If you want the link to go direct to the comment, make sure there's some text to go with so it's in a sentence. Even if the text is just a single full-stop.
. https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-09-08-2021/#comment-1807868
Oh I see. That will probably explain why it suddenly showed up when I edited it and then when I edited it again it vanished.
And I have had my first jab, as it happens. I had to moan to finally get into the queue but I had it about 3 weeks ago. I would have been due for my second today as it happens but I read the stuff about a longer gap being better and had got it switched to about mid-September. What are the chances we will still be in lockdown then?
What, news flash, we are jabbing at rates ahead of what the UK and US ALREADY HAVE DONE. Oh, the irony.
you'll get over it
Pete said it best, imho.
And it’s all dear leader and the gummints fault.
Just a point, vaccination does not stop spreading. I helps to stop/reduce effects in the vaccinated.
The fully vaccinated appear to be super spreaders. The experiment continues……
What's your evidence for saying "The fully vaccinated appear to be super spreaders."?
Utter bullshit TC, go spread your misinformation somewhere else.
About an hour ago on Aljazeera TV new scientific information on the Pfizer vaccine will be released tomorrow. In the US a booster jab will be administered 8 months after the second jab due to antibodies waning.
All the more reason for everyone to get vaccinated if possible. Vaccinations for other diseases usually stop the spread, so if 80% of the population is vaccinated then usually the unvaccinated aren't infected & get a "free ride".
Looks like those who choose not to get the jab this time won't be able to rely on herd immunity for their protection.
dv
The vaccines reduce infections and spreading considerably (including delta), but not completely.
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/
Finally, a modest victory of sense over irrational loonies, that should help take a little bit of the edge off a public health crisis causing huge unnecessary suffering.
No, nothing to do with covid, it's just that golden rice has finally been granted the last approval needed to allow commercial growth and distribution in the Philippines, which will alleviate the problem of vitamin A deficiency a bit.
Hopefully, the benefits of this will open people's eyes a little bit more to the benefits of GMOs in dealing with numerous food supply issues coming at us fast.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/philippines-approves-golden-rice/
Oh, the Golden Rice swindle! The problem (one of the many problems) with Golden Rice was that no one wanted to eat it because of its off-putting colour; it looked to rice-eaters as though it was spoiled.
I wonder how they've solved that issue?
…it looked to rice-eaters as though it was spoiled.
So can we assume that not all rice eaters suffer from VAD blindness? How on earth did they avoid it? Its a mystery.
You got any evidence for your assertion that the colour is a problem because people think it's spoiled? I've had a look, and can't find any evidence. I currently work with a majority Filipino workforce, and yellow-coloured rice appears fairly frequently at smoko. So it looks to me like that assertion is just something somebody made up to try to spread false fear, uncertainty, doubt.
As for swindles, the swindling going on about golden rice comes from the organics industry trying to protect their business model of selling the perception of benefits that are non-existent, and the likes of Greenpeace trying to protect their business model of spreading vague fears so they can sell themselves as the solution, to rake in donations and provide a very nice living to those at the top of the organisation thank you very much.
Your Filipino friends' yellow-coloured rice is likely that way because they added yellow-coloured spices to it, not because it came pre-yellowed from the sack! Funny how logical explanations can expose brash assertions.
As to "making it up", to the best of my knowledge and based upon the time, a number of years ago when I researched the Golden Rice issue, I learned of this factor, which seemed to me to be the critical one in the failure of up-take the first time around. I'm still of the view that this was a significant factor. I am however, not interested in going into bat on this issue, thanks.
In other words, you're happy to toss out a vague unfounded but scary-sounding assertion. But unwilling to put any effort into backing it up.
In other words, I can't be arsed searching for something I found many years ago, despite the fact that the concept I've provided is entirely logical and resisted your efforts to make it seem illogical.
And 🙂 It’s hardly a “scary-sounding assertion” – The rice-eating community weren’t scared by the yellow rice, they just didn’t want to eat it, coz it looks spoiled.
In other you got nuthin'. But it's random idea that fits with your feels and reckons, so you'll keep repeating it regardless of it being untrue.
Idiot.
I've searched for evidence of opposition to golden rice on the basis that it looks like spoiled rice, and turned up nothing. Searching for images of spoiled rice turns up plenty, but the images look nothing like golden rice.
[please tone down the antagonism. There are plenty of politics to argue here without resorting to that. thanks – weka]
Andre; I'm puzzled by your antagonistic approach. You are clearly pro-GE and regard those who are not as "irrational loonies". I've not made any comment at all about GE, yet you're treating me as one of your "irrational loonies", even calling me an idiot, despite the fact that I've stuck closely to logical argument, rather than irrational name-calling.
It's surely a puzzle.
mod note for you Andre.
Noted.
But it sure would be nice if this bit of this site's policy would get taken a bit more seriously:
True, but I think that Robert did provide a coherent and logical explanation for his belief and an explanation for why he wasn't going to link chase. He also did so in an evenhanded way without upping the ante, and responded to the points you raised. In other words, he wasn't just making a claim of fact and then aggressively doubling down on it without attempting to explain (which is what happens here).
Not everything we know is provable, but we can still communicate it without making a hard claim of fact.
eg he said, this is something I learned some years ago, I don't have a source for it now, but it makes sense because [explanation]
vs someone saying repeatedly, this thing is true, I know it's true, you're wrong.
I found a starting link pretty easily, and I suspect others would have too if the conversation didn't open with calling people irrational loonies.
Analysis of the causes of postharvest rice grain yellowing [2008]
https://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?recordID=PH2009001522
fourth hit in my google search.
Did you find anything that suggests this yellowing is related to a reluctance to adopt golden rice?
Or find any images that suggest rice spoiled this way appears even vaguely similar to golden rice?
no, it's a starting link to explore the issue. I found the idea interesting, but no so interesting that I'm going to spend time on it.
Andre – can you, I wonder, conceive of the possibility of a factor that might influence the up-take of a certain product by a certain culture, that was not foreseen by the producers, that was not related to the technology used to produce the crop and was a cultural factor, such as colour-preference, an aversion to a product-name, the selection of an inappropriate celebrity for the promotion of the product, etc.
Just a thought-experiment for you and I'm genuinely interested to know.
We're in the middle of a severe housing crisis, a global pandemic catching up on us, dire public health infrastructure etc etc – and all you can think of is the colour of your rice. Oh puhleese!
All I can think of – are your reading skills really that deficient? Have a look around the rest of today's Open Mike and see what other topics I've commented on. Let alone other days and posts.
And further to your reading comprehension deficiency, the issue around golden rice is not the colour, but that it can alleviate some of the horrible blight of hundreds of millions of people suffering vitamin A deficiency. At zero cost.
WHO estimate that between a quarter million and half a million kids every year go blind from vitamin A deficiency, and that half of those die within a year. And that's just one of the problems caused by vitamin A deficiency.
Blocking the prevention of even just a few of those cases because some privileged wealthy westerners hold some evidence-free irrational beliefs and wish to impose them on others is indeed something I'm utterly disgusted about. It's human suffering many orders of magnitude beyond the first world problems of a few people here being unable to buy a house or not getting a vaccination as quickly as they would like.
They should market as 'presaffronised for your enjoyment'.
You're such a wag!
It would only work on those rice-eaters with zero sense-of-smell: that is, de minimis 🙂
(plus those with no smell-able friends)
🙂
It's a thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffronisation
Yes, I think the yellow rice argument is a red (or is that yellow) herring. Because many people colour their rice with tumeric, so how it would be an issue is a mystery beyond straw clutching.
My biggest issue with GE is contamination of wild stock. Yes it happens, frequently. My second issue is corporate control of food lines. Big oil has shown us what they're prepared to do to retain riches and power, why big Ag and the likes of Monsanto would be any different is a fairy tale mystery to me.
"current regulatory systems are unable to protect against the risk of GMO contamination… farmers are reluctant to seek redress for fear of possible patent infringement…"
Wilson, S. (2014). Induced Nuisance: Holding Patient Owners Liable for GMO Cross-Contamination. Emory LJ, 64, 169.
"Genetically Modified Crops cannot co-exists with organic and heirloom crops. GMOs decimate their organic ancestors at the expense of agrobiodiversity and with little regard for environmental consequences. The pollen of monoculture plants cross-pollinates plants of the same species that may be quite far away in a process called genetic drift. This would be natural and necessary if it were not for the unnatural and dangerous traits that are inserted into GMOs through human hands, thereby often recklessly infiltrating organic or heirloom plants with GMO traits."
Steier, G. (2016). Textbox: Cross-Contamination, Genetic Drift, and the Question of GMO Co-existence with Non-GM Crops. In International Food Law and Policy (pp. 177-178). Springer, Cham.
There's loads of these. But nothing to see here right? Stupid know nothing hippies getting in the way of PROGRESS and GROWTH. People are starving because of inequities in distribution, not lack of GE.
White rice, when spoiled in storage, yellows. Experienced rice-eaters recognise un-cooked, yellowed rice as something to be avoided (it's a taste-thing, not and aesthetics-thing).
Rosemary @ 9:38 alludes to the real reason for the problem; lack of vegetables through capitalist pressures (please correct me if I’m wrong, Rosemary 🙂
You are entirely correct Robert. I am making it my mission these days to avoid stating the obvious. Allowing folks who haven't already done so to work it out for themselves.
(I'm one of those Luddite types that reckons that it is such supreme arrogance for mankind to presume to perfect in a few decades what nature has developed over millennia.
All was perfect before we buggered it up.)
I could bang on about monoculture…and I guess there's a reason why the VAD population do not grow a variety of food…but like you, I can't be arsed right now. Too busy.
Mixing potting mix and filling bags and containers for tomatoes, curcubits, sweetcorn etc currently thriving in the hothouse. Even here in the Far Far North it is still a little cool outdoors…but when it warms…I'll be ahead!
You, me and DB Brown are executives in Irrational Loonies Inc. it transpires; we should negotiate a substantial salary package from Andre before we go any further – irrational lunacy can't be expected to be provided for free!
Good on you for your foresight; the warm weather will be upon us before we know it and home-grown food is likely to be the game-changer for many New Zealand/Aotearoans 🙂 I've Running Butter Bean seedlings popping up in the warmth of our tunnel house just now. They're just like Scarlet Runners, only their long pods are butter-yellow! Exciting! Not GE, I should add 🙂
Last year…not enough stored water for summer vege gardens in poor soils. All was grown, harvested, stored and seed saved by mid January. This year…an abundance of stored water and much better soils due to green mulching. And our own sheeps' poo. Learning that 'full sun' does not work up here where the sun is so intense. (We are as far north as you are south.)Koanga heirloom seeds working well…many sourced from this rohe. Got to adapt and work with nature.
As for my food forest….I am experimenting with growing trees from seed. So far I have papaya, feijoas, persimmons, mangoes, and I started some pineapple seed sprouting this morning. Have usual grafted trees growing….but growing from seed is fun. One mate is into grafting and another is an ace at growing from cuttings.
"We are as far north as you are south." – yikes! 🙂
This is music to my ears 🙂 Delighted to hear you are well-watered this time around.
Growing trees from seed is the work of angels. Once you've done it, there's no stopping; it can only end well 🙂
I've just come in from harvesting some mid-winter spuds for a frittata. My mate has fresh tomatoes, outdoors, just around the corner (central Auckland), I'd have some of them on top of the frittata too if not for lockdown. Fresh herbs and greens, chives, onion, mmm. Getting hungry now. Will add cheese, because I'm a damn patriot!
So easy to do lots of food in a small space. High value nutrition, not that store bought nonsense bred into banality and sprayed into submission.
Times are certainly changing. A broad variety of types of food will see us through where monocultures can fail. I like to put lots of types of plants in various places and see which ones survive and which don't. From seed and cuttings this is a relatively cheap way to 'know your land' fairly quickly. Seasonal and weather related variance will keep you guessing long enough to keep it interesting.
The Taro retreats into a sunken path in drought, and moves upslope under the macadamia with water available. The bananas love a bowl, to retain both moisture and nutrients, but a bowl on a slope, so they don't rot in the wet. Nearly all land has some slope, a few degrees is enough. I have 3 bunches emerging on 8 stems. Another bunch ripening on my doorstep, so that was 4 bunches from 9 stems. The secret is chicken bedding, and a sweet location.
Got giant thyme grown all through winter too, plus peppers. Pulled a bonus wee kumara out while getting some spuds. Fresh as fresh ever gets. Bounty.
There's a few of us permies on my block now. We're swapping and learning together, always something to eat, still haven't utilised the half of our combined sections.
The 1/8th acre dream!
People are starving because of inequities in distribution, not lack of GE.
Please explain to me why the existence of inequities in distribution should stop efforts to improve the nutritional value of the main staple food of impoverished malnourished people.
As for loss of heirloom varieties, that is primarily driven by big ag taking over the areas where those heirloom varieties have been cultivated. It happens because of big ag, and it happens whether the monoculture is of a conventionally bred or mutation bred * or a GMO crop. It's big ag that's the problem, not the specific technique used to create the characteristics of the organism they're growing.
In the case of golden rice, it's a specific attempt to take the benefits of a powerful tool out of the hands of big ag, and give it to the small farmers to benefit from it. It's taking power out of the hands of big ag, giving it to those that have been shat upon by big ag.
* Seriously, why is mutation breeding acceptable to organic farmers and others opposed to big ag? Mutation bred organisms don't require the extensive safety testing GMOs do. But I can't think of a better technique for unleashing the triffids or Audrey 2 than inducing massive random mutations across the entire genome, then only checking and selecting for the few traits of interest. To me, the lack of opposition to mutation breeding amidst the rabid opposition to GMOs just shows how misguided and irrational the anti-GMO crowd really is.
Champions of GE to address climate change have an extraordinary blindness with regards to how evolution works, and how corporate interests are trying to control global food supplies.
Our greatest hope is more diversity, not more monoculture. Also dismantling of corporations into manageable entities that don't hold sway over governments.
“misguided and irrational”
above that we have
“irrational loonies”
Hey, fuck you.
Dietary advice, dietary variation, and 2 x annual vitamin A caps for youth are solving the VAD problem. While Golden Rice…
"Based on IRRI’s documents, Golden Rice contains less than 10% of an equivalent amount of beta-carotene in carrots. As mentioned above, even the US FDA took notice of the Golden Rice’s low beta-carotene content. Citing the IRRI report, the average beta-carotene of Golden Rice is a measly 1.26 µg/g, which is even lower than the 1.6 µg/g beta-carotene expression of the very first Golden Rice generation back in the 2000s."
https://grain.org/en/article/6067-don-t-get-fooled-again-unmasking-two-decades-of-lies-about-golden-rice
You wanna know why I'm passionate?
I'm utterly disgusted at those in privileged positions in wealthy countries trying to deny a literally life-saving innovation to impoverished and malnourished people in desperate need of everything they can get to help their situation.
This particular innovation was developed and is distributed outside the control of big ag and other shitty organisation. It has zero demonstrable downsides for those people in need of it's benefits, and is a vast improvement on the other options actually available to them.
But the opposition to it in among privileged wealthy people is not based on demonstrable evidence, but appears entirely rooted in vague feels and reckons about it being against some righteous way of doing things.
Sure. And others are equally passionate because they see people starving happening because of the centre left, neoliberal politics you support. Or the BAU ag and industry you support that is killing the planet.
Explaining why you're disgusted adds to the debate because people can support or argue against your reasoning and beliefs (calling people loonies leads to flaming and people not listening to each other).
It seems to me that planting spinach or similar green leaf plants around the edges of the rice paddies would be a much better solution to vitamin A deficiency.
I think they grow lots of mangoes in the Philippines, too.
That seems to me also, pwmcm.
We need to be doing polyculture for other reasons too, so win, win, win.
and I'm guessing (haven't read the whole thread to see if this is covered), that part of the problem is rice being grown for cash cropping rather than food for locals. The latter is more conducive to both health and ecology.
Yes. I understand Andre's concern and frustration: the issue of human health and the tragedy of the effects of malnutrition add a great deal of heat to any argument. The solutions offered seem to divide us left and right, which is telling (not sure what it tells 🙂 Your suggestions, and those of Rosemary and DB seem nuanced, holistic and multi-layered. Andre's, not so much but this might be just a matter of perception. It's an on-going puzzle.
I still have some hope that we (humans, lefties, kiwis, whoever) can develop communication that allows for development of ideas and solutions that are meeting points. The hard man, fisticuffs debate culture on the left is a problem for that, including on TS.
I also wonder if people are tired, scared, stressed, and just running out of patience for nuance and consideration. Even more need for the above in that case, but a conundrum.
Not aiming that at Andre in particular, I think most of us are struggling with the way the world is now at some level and this impacts on how we communicate or approach politics.
Breathe, and listen to your raging heart. That’s a tell-tale sign that you’re stressed. When people yell, people yell back. When people go silent, people think. More important than what is said is the pauses between, the brief moments of silence, what is not said but could be; that’s the magic moment of creation. The same in music and art in general: less is more. The old Masters and Composers knew the importance of contrast and change of tempo and volume, and silence. Enter a Mall and a wall of sound will ‘greet’ you to numb the senses and hypnotise you to buy and consume, aimlessly and senselessly. Here on TS we are bombarded with walls of words that burry the mind in an avalanche of meaningless words. We become unthinking lazy zombies with aggressive and destructive attitudes towards others. Breathe.
It seems to me that we are being "broken" by all this (see"the crises of the world") and, like caterpillars in-crysalis, we are going to be "pithed" (see, toads/experimental) by circumstance, and emerge, butterflies! 🙂
Now is the time for presenting form.
Growing golden rice doesn't prevent growing other fruits and vegetables. It's a false dichotomy to think of doing this instead of that. Better to look at all improvements that can add together.
As an improvement for impoverished malnourished people, golden rice adds significant nutritional value to the main staple food consumed by the huge majority of impoverished malnourished people. It doesn't displace anything else.
Those impoverished malnourished people would love to be able to add more varied fruits and vegetables to their diets, and maybe even occasionally animal protein, but it's other obstacles than rice supply that stand in the way of that.
Not least of which is the enormous population density of 368 people per sq km (including all the regularly erupting volcanoes). That extremely high population density really puts a premium on extracting the most calories feasible from any given plot of arable land.
For comparison, New Zealand's population density is 18 per sq km, 1/20th that of the Philippines. If someone's lived experience here is having the wealth and privilege of plenty of land to grow fruits and veges to supplement their diet largely obtained from elsewhere, then frankly they have NFI of the food supply pressures on impoverished malnourished people in places like the Philippines. Nor what mitigation measures might realistically be achievable.
That's a well-presented argument, Andre.
Questions that present begin: is it true that "Growing golden rice doesn't prevent growing other fruits and vegetables. "
Are workers in Golden Rice fields free and able to grow their own veggies, or is their time and land taken for the money-crop? Are they pressured to work for money then spend it on "packaged" food, as is reportedly, so often the case?
As to "calories" – does Golden Rice offer more calories than other crops (DB Brown challenged that claim, elegantly, I thought).
It seems counter-intuitive to claim that "wealth and privilege" is a pre-requisite to growing fruits and veggies. Fruit and veggies have been grown by money-less communities since time-imermorial, like, forever, it seems.
I'm not nay-saying your claims, just asking for clarification.
Growing golden rice doesn't prevent the growing of other fruits and vegetables any more than growing regular rice does. The main difference golden rice has is that it puts beta-carotene into the rice grains, which regular rice doesn't. The plant as a whole isn't really doing much different, beta-carotene is present in the rest of the plant in both golden rice and regular rice. Chemically, beta-carotene is purely hydrogen and carbon, so golden rice is not taking up trace elements or scarce nitrogen or phosphorus that regular rice doesn't.
Calories wise or productivity wise, I haven't seen anything that says there's significant difference between golden rice and regular rice. It's just that rice gives very high calories per hectare compared to alternative crops on that land. Hence the pressure to grow rice rather than something else that may be more nutritious but has significantly less productivity in terms of calories. It's just the pressure to simply produce enough calories to feed that high population density.
Having the land and the time to grow veges is a manifestation of wealth and privilege. Especially in extremely high population density places, such as the Philippines, that are poor yet extensively urbanised.
Being described as wealthy and privileged may seem a WTF? moment to rural poor people, both here and in less fortunate countries. But having the time and land to grow your own varied food really is wealth and privilege compared to the conditions suffered by those that haven't "made it" in the cities. As well as those trapped in a rural cycle of feeling they have to absolutely maximise production from their land to meet external financial pressures. Or landless rural poor such as itinerant rural workers.
Hmmm… you seem to have simply reposted your original claims, rather than addressing my questions…
You say, "Growing golden rice doesn't prevent the growing of other fruits and vegetables any more than growing regular rice does."
I say, "growing regular rice, or bananas, coffee, tea etc, DOES prevent the workers from growing their own food. The land is claimed for commerce, the time is claimed for 'employment". Have you a response for this, Andre?
Then your objections should be to the existing systems of agriculture and commerce in general, and should not have any distinction between golden rice and regular rice.
Because there is no difference between golden rice and regular rice in terms of land use, labour, commerce, external inputs etc.
The only difference changing from regular rice to golden rice will be that those that are vitamin A deficient because of their diets will become less vitamin A deficient if they are able to change the regular rice they eat now over to golden rice.
Which will have follow-on beneficial effects in reducing the time and expense of vitamin A supplements. And reducing the suffering and time and expense of treating people for the effects of vitamin A deficiency.
Well, Andre, my "objections" weren't objections at all; I simply offered my view that the efforts to make Golden Rice the rice-of-choice, fell down because the locals rejected it because it looked squiffy 🙂
And, indeed, my "objections" to "the existing systems of agriculture and commerce in general" – yes, that is what I'm objecting to! GE rice fits right in there and I'm not changing my opinion just because it's clever science 🙂
In closing: growing food for your self and for your family is not something available only to those with "wealth and privilege" – it's for us all. Go well!
So you offered your view on the basis of no evidence that you have been able to provide, and are sticking to it in the face of contrary information. That's irrational.
You are continuing your objection to a specific instance of GMO rice because of your objections to the general systems of big ag. Even though that particular instance of GMO rice was specifically developed and distributed outside of big ag, specifically to enable people to break free from big ag. And help them keep out of the clutches of big medicine and big pharma. That's irrational.
You appear to cling to your belief that growing your own fuit and veg is available to everyone, despite there being numerous classes of people that do not possess the wealth and privilege of the time and land and whatever other resources needed to do so, whether it be access to natural light, sufficient water, stability or whatever else. That's irrational.
I won't use the "L" word, because that seems to be a bit triggering.
Well, Andre, you provided no "contrary information" AT ALL to my suggestion that the GE rice wasn't popular because it looked spoiled; but hei aha! I'm not, despite your claim, objecting to Golden Rice, I'm simply saying, people didn't take a shine to it. That's my understanding. I searched my memory banks, somewhat depleted though they are, and discovered that the last time I engaged in this debate was on grubby old Kiwiblog, some 10 or so years ago! I've not commented there, or rather, been allowed to comment there, for many years, so it won't be difficult, should you choose to pursue the matter, to unearth the thread of discussion there; my alter-ego, Greenfly, was flying the flag back then (it may have been Village Idiot, or perhaps Hugh Manatee, who can remember back that far 🙂
You're also being irrational about how the burden of proof works. You made the assertion, you prove it. Nobody else has to disprove any random assertion you make, it's up to you to prove it.
Wow you sure do spin a lot of spin. The rice is a non-event insofar as Vitamin A content for helping people, and the ownership is in the hands of corporations, not given away as you allude to.
The vitamin A doesn't store, even if the rice does.
You are using hyperbole. Why don't you come out and tell us we are endangering children with our objection to this nonsense.
Decades in development, nothing special to see. Just the same old push, retreat, push again till this crap has its foot in the door. Ruthless commercialism.
My opposition is not rooted in vague feelings. It is rooted in knowledge of plant physiology, plant pathology and evolution – all of which I'm pretty damn good at. Add to that a lot of years working in a lot of growing systems.
Your argument is emotionally laden abusive garbage.
The general opposition to Golden Rice is nicely described in this quote from the second site I visited:
"Golden Rice is a techno-fix to malnutrition and a corporate ploy to control our agriculture. It is not needed by Asian people nor the world. Indeed, the solution to hunger and malnutrition lies in comprehensive approaches that ensure people have access to diverse sources of nutrition. Securing small farmers’ control over resources such as seed, appropriate technologies, water and land is the real key to improving food production and eradicating hunger and malnutrition."
https://grain.org/en/article/6067-don-t-get-fooled-again-unmasking-two-decades-of-lies-about-golden-rice
Should I continue? This is barrels/ducks stuff.
My first (light-hearted) search found this:
"Finally, there are social and cultural roadblocks. There are eating preferences deeply rooted in longstanding tradition. The yellow color of the rice may not be accepted because of different countries’ social and cultural history. (MASIPAG)."
https://med.nyu.edu/highschoolbioethics/genetically-modified-organisms-“golden-rice”-debate
(This was not a difficult thing to do).
Very very weak. To the point that I question your reading comprehension skills.
It doesn't say anything whatsoever about where those countries with resistance might be. It might be African or South American countries with cultural resistance to yellow rice. It doesn't even mention spoilage at all. It appears to be trying to reference MASIPAG as a source, but even that weak claim doesn't appear on MASIPAG's current gish-gallop of misinformation about why they oppose golden rice.
https://masipag.org/2020/08/why-we-oppose-golden-rice/
The Science Based Medicine article I started the thread with addresses the misinformation and misdirection techniques MASIPAG uses, but here it is again.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/philippines-approves-golden-rice/
Thanks for the link, Andre – it looks top-drawer, only it'll be wasted on me and my questionable reading comprehension skills. I'll stick with believing there are better ways to improve health than eating GE foods. I could be wrong about that, but it doesn't feel that way 🙂
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/podcast-card/the-path-to-a-housing-crisis
When you hear things described as unsustainable, know that it means that it will not remain….this situation will not be tolerated forever and then everyone loses….including those who think they are insulated.
Yet for some reason unexplained Australia – that nation so hated by the left – with policies very similar to NZ seems not to have a 'housing crisis'. Sure there are always marginalised in any society who will face homelessness and housing difficulties, but for the most part quality and affordability are not issues on the same scale they are in NZ except maybe in parts of Sydney and Melbourne.
Hell we're looking at buying some retirement units in Brisbane for $70k each. Think about that.
Part of the story is geography, there is just so much land in Aus compared to NZ. Another part is an efficient building industry, and another is a solid ASX that provides and alternative investment vehicle for people looking to fund their retirement. By comparison NZ is on the back foot on all of these measures. Still if you think the solution is to hope for the system to collapse …
And a big sovereign wealth fund that Muldoon cancelled our equivalent of.
Yes. Good point.
what is the basis of those wealth funds?….the same basis as the supposed value of our housing stock.
Australia has the same ponzi problem albeit slightly less pronounced .
The issues are not based in land availability or construction constraints but in credit…the basis of western economies since production was abandoned as the basis of growth.
The 'solution' will occur, whether it is a collapse of the housing ponzi that occurs before or in tandem with societal breakdown is the only question…thats what unsustainable means.
OK if you say so. In the meantime I'll just go ahead and buy some of those $70k units I think.
Shifting? Again? How awful for you. These might cheer you up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Kum8OUTuk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex45znGdECE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fex6sWG1ecY
"I'll just go ahead and buy a few units"
"I got paid more than most of you earn…"
Pretty sad, that such a mover and shaker like yourself is found here, rutting about in the mud with the hoi polloi. Don't you have real poor people to denigrate?
Opening an industrial plant, what a manly man. In the meantime, climate change. You're just depressing.
That's why walruses are jumping off cliffs.
That's why possums jump in front of cars.
You know we've got polar bears coming down from the North trying to mate with brown bears. That's an endangered species trying to sleep with a common species in order to save themselves.
And that's why Tories fuck pigs.
Interesting how that comment of mine above hit a nerve, obviously ironic as it was meant to be. Your reaction being a classic Karpman drama, you set the 'real poor people' up as the victims, me as their oppressor and your brave self as their rescuer. It's a con game – always has been.
Opening an industrial plant, what a manly man. In the meantime, climate change. You're just depressing.
Same plant that will be producing the first battery grade lithium hydroxide in Australia.
You're clearly a well educated and capable person with a great deal of experience. So far I've been reading your fresh contributions here with some considerable interest. While I definitely have an idealist streak, one that has kept me active here since the site was started in 2007, over time I've definitely become more pragmatic in that reality demands we consider all of the effective tools available to us – and that includes many of the themes you've been writing about.
In respect of climate change I've written here previously that the solution will come from a combination of both an agricultural, industrial and ultimately a political evolution expressing the fundamental unity of the human species. Clearly each of these themes is so extensive no single individual can grasp any single one, much less all three. Which is why we need to understand how to build each other up, communicate effectively and act with common purpose.
On that, in the industrial front.
There was an annoying video article in Stuff about something that I didn’t think would actually happen. Producing and delivering steel made without coal or carbon is important. About 8% of the worlds emmissions are from making steel, and most of that is from the coking coal. I didn’t think that there was a realistic way out of that. Because we need steel to run a technology based economy similar to our current one. Certainly need it to transition to any other without a human die-back.
A Reuters text article explains it and it has the promo clip at the top. However it doesn’t explain the process apart from saying that they’re using Hydrogen.
A Forbes article from last year gives a better explanation. At a 20-30% cost above normal production costs, it is easily within a industrial roll-out level. Just add carbon taxes or costs.
By my reckoning, at a technical level, that leaves just 3 areas of technological concern. Concrete, mass air-travel, and shipping as large emitters with no current effective low or no-carbon emitter technology to be developed.
I agree with this post. Your bragging deserved a lampooning, and lampooning it got.
And, it's a bloody good joke.
Good-oh.
"Still if you think the solution is to hope for the system to collapse …"
I think Pat might have said the opposite to that, i.e. "this situation will not be tolerated forever and then everyone loses…" Those of us who care about actual outcomes are terrified of collapse, because we know that it will do the most harm to those already at the bottom of the pile. I favour radically truthful diagnoses of a problem, but very careful responses. The first part is important, because without it we will never summon the collective will to do anything.
The only trouble I have with a housing market collapse is that it can fall one of two ways: secure housing becomes possible for poorer people in their lifetime; or dwelling ownership becomes more concentrated as the upper middle class are kicked out of an exclusive club they were never wanted in from the start.
It will (not can) collapse because those that ultimately support it (those 'poorer' renters) cannot continue to support additional inflation and the raison d'etre disappears…..that pool gets larger and poorer by the auction.
A big reason is the very light weight and fragile nature of Aussie houses, no earthquake regulations and a lot less insulation to worry about , for instance when we build in ex100x50 at 450 to 600 centres they only need or used to when I was there ex75x35 and far wider centres. Not much fun in a cyclone but then when did the Aussies care much about sensible precautions anyway.
Termites though. 🙂
It's all concrete bricks and steel construction now. Very little timber used at all – even internally
We were house and cat sitting in Redcliffe on the Sunshine Coast four years ago. I saw a small movement on a board in the bathroom.. it was a termite munching a hole at quickly as I type this.
Luckily they had their yearly pest inspection happening that afternoon. It was dealt with. I thought "Wow! wood is no good unless it is treated or turpentine timber’, and nearby steel framing was going into newly built properties.
Results from a new high-quality trial of ivermectin are starting to come out. Not a final report, yet, but today is the first time I've seen info straight from the researchers. Conclusion: ivermectin doesn't do anything significantly useful against covid.
However, they did find that a different repurposed older drug, fluvoxamine, appears to have enough beneficial effects to be a useful addition to treatment regimes.
https://elemental.medium.com/ivermectin-for-covid-19-an-update-5e913bb49483
slide show from researchers: https://dcricollab.dcri.duke.edu/sites/NIHKR/KR/GR-Slides-08-06-21.pdf
There does indeed appear to be Big Pharma grifting going on over covid.
But the grifters aren't the vaccine manufacturers selling a safe product that actually mostly prevents getting infected and almost completely prevents serious disease and death for $50 for a 2-dose course.
Not compared to those selling a treatment that runs $1000 a course for treating the disease. That appear to have financial connections to lawmakers taking actions that appear intended to reduce vaccination rates and increase disease rates.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bc-us-virus-outbreak-florida-governor_n_611cd652e4b0e8ac7918df2a
One for Morrissey the 'transcriber' if he is still around:
https://twitter.com/danxduran/status/1427842726867791877
Please don't encourage him.
While the content is much funnier than the mozzie's third rate stenography efforts, stylistically it's even more painful than the mozzie's.
And that's sayin' something.
If you listened to whingy Eastwood getting arrested (and livestreaming the event for attention so this is entirely fair game) you'd see the format simply reflects his increasing hysteria and ridiculous plea for attention.
Indeed.
I just don't want anyone as unfunny as the mozzie thinking it's something to be emulated and filling this site with failed attempts to recreate it.
Yep, fair call.
That’s not gonna happen, again.
Thanks. I'm grateful for the work that goes into that.
I don't know if it's my screen settings, but the quoted text in screenshots within tweets is already annoyingly large on TS on my laptop.
Do you mean the Tweet @ 7, for example?
Looks like a normal quote in normal font size on my laptop screen.
Big on mine.
kind of but the text in tweet in #7 is also enlarged for effect so hard to use as an example. I was meaning tweets generally. I'll screenshot next time I see one
Thank you. Here's the audiovisual:
https://twitter.com/StrayDogNZ/status/1428143712651997187
Cluster…flies.
And, those glasses!
“We do not consent!
Okay, I consent, I’m coming”.
Classic!
I've never heard of this Vinnie Eastwood. When I saw the above clip, what I thought I saw was a piss-take; reading his smile and listening to his words it sounded like an actor on amateur dram night at the local repertory tasked to address a street corner meeting as a young Winston Churchill.
Long-time bit-part grifter. Like so many of their Amerkin brethren.
If I recognise him correctly, I've had the unpleasant experience of seeing him at TPPA protests in Auckland… megaphone in hand, rattling off on a tangent from why most were there.
Struck me as a bit of a plonker.
Unionists and students are much more dignified when they decide to get arrested.
Toddlers would be.
lol, yes, I suspect the mods would be jumping on that pretty damn quick.
That is both funny and factual at the same time.
Thought so too. Never understood the negativity directed at "the mozzie's third rate stenography efforts". Over the years I've found some of Morrissey's comments here to be LOL funny. Not everyone's cuppa, sure, but good medicine for me – thanks Moz.
Because misleading, usually. That and reliance on 'hurr hurr hurr' too often.
Sorry Sacha – cracked up just reading "hurr hurr hurr" – we're all individuals, and not all humour needs to be factual, imho.
I'm sure it's all still available and more over at his own blog. It should be easy to find, he's linkwhored it here often enough.
"Linkwhored" is an example of the provocative antagonism that puzzles me so – just my opinion.
Bit of an amateur imo. Here's a crack at Judith.
Milk powder, swamp Kauri
Bullying and bagging Maori
Play the victim, pull the gun
She's a fucking nut this one
'Demonized' for being white
A career built of utter shite
Now she teeters at the brink
The last resort of shit and stink
Says her dirty days are done
Plays the race card on day one
Disavows her former friend
Where do you think this will end?
Swamp digger, Oravida
#1 goal, crush our leader
There to fight and ne'er to help
Captain of the cult of self.
Thanks DB Brown, excellent (imho) – every little bit helps
Morrissey’s effort dates from 2005; from the references in your ode I suspect it’s a bit more up-to-date.
Cheers. 2005 huh, well, he's consistent!
To be fair, sometimes he tickles the funny bone. With a strong emphasis on sometimes. If I saw a comic with that hit rate I'd avoid their performances.
There are comics with a similar hit rate self promoting ceaselessly as well. It does nothing to endear me to them.
When it comes to humour, one person's 'never' is another's 'sometimes' and a third person's 'often' – 'always' might be pushing it, but you never know.
I enjoy them too. So much faster to read than to listen, and Morrissey's take just relates to my sense of humour. I'm in no two minds about how he views certain people, and that appeals to me as he doesn't hide behind well-chosen words and sideways references.
Most readers should be able to distinguish narrative from framing, and interpret independently. But I get a fair few chuckles from Morrissey's framing.
"…All-told New Zealander consumed 26 petabytes of data yesterday – the equivalent of a Netflix HD stream running for 1000 years…"
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-lockdown-nz-internet-use-hits-new-record-how-close-we-are-to-the-limit/MEUPDMIQPLU56GO5JI6KIYQSTI/
So if we taxed that at 1c a gigabyte, around $95,000,000 a year would be available to (for example) NZ on Air to spend on NZ content for converged media.
Just saying.
Jeepers that seems a lot but to an untrained eye like mine it's also a mostly meaningless number. Though I appreciate the netflix analogy to try wrap my head around it…
That's like 365 000 people running netflix for 24 hours. Not THAT huge.
Agree on the tax, but how would they implement it. Streaming services are cheap but I'm sure they'll jack the prices once free alternatives like TVNZ have been buried. The tax might save local content from said burial.
The same amount of money would be obtained by a 1c per litre tax on oil consumed in NZ at about 150,000 barrels per day. I say this because I'm interested as to why there should be a tax on internet usage to fund NZ on Air.
I wonder what is the size of the carbon footprint of using 26 petabytes of data daily? That might better direct any possible data consumption tax (DST?) to a more applicable usage, like climate change concerns for example.
"… I say this because I'm interested as to why there should be a tax on internet usage to fund NZ on Air…"
It is the 21st century equivalent of the old fashioned TV license for to pay for public content, with the bonus it can be collected at source – the ISPs and phone providers
I use about 20GB a month on my phone, so for me it would be 20c a month on my phone bill and about $6-8 a month on our internet bill.
That’s one hell of a carbon foot print!
Imagine us all at home playing with our cryptocurrencies!
???
https://twitter.com/GoAngelo/status/1428138921565855755
Definition of "Expert"
x is the unknown quantity,
spurt is a drip under pressure.
Teen vaccine time.
https://twitter.com/medickinson/status/1428173570388086787
Great. That means that about 84% of our population now have an approved vaccine to take.
Pfizer apparently expect to submit data for 5 to 11 year olds in September, so when that happens we'll have a vaccine approved for about 94% of our population.
Whingers will need another topic. 🙂
I've just had a whinge about my jab yesterday getting cancelled. Does that count?
I'll allow it 🙂
This is nuts, children are least affected by the virus by a long way, and they're poor spreaders of it. Why are children being offered vaccination??
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57766717
Because "least affected" is not the same as "not affected". Covid is sufficiently harmful that even the least affected age group still suffer unacceptable harms. So it makes sense to reduce those potential harms as much as possible. By vaccinating them.
Children can still transmit the virus, even if not as much as adults. So from a public health perspective, it's best to reduce as much as possible the size of the population that get become infected and potential transmit to others. Vaccination achieves this.
mauī, developed and more fortunate under-developed countries vaccinate children against viral diseases. What's your main concern about vaccinating 12-15 year olds against Covid-19, and why do you think that health experts recommend vaccination?
Whatever else the future holds, if Covid-19 persists in some form then presumably you’ll have no objection to those 12-15 year olds getting jabs in 3 – 6 years’ time.
The general feeling I have on it is treating children who already have a robust immune response and aren't a risk group for disease, with a new medical treatment still undergoing testing and awaiting full approval is not what decent societies do.
Thanks; regrettably 'very low risk' isn't 'zero risk'. Imho decisions to vaccinate children should be left up to (responsible) parents, as is currently the case.
Any concerns about that, and any ideas about how best to protect children who have a less than robust immune system, or are otherwise 'Covid-unlucky'?
I'm afraid your link does have the familiar tinge of propaganda,
We don't know if people died of covid, or with covid (see below). Which to my mind does call into question not only that statistic, but the other stats used in that piece.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-side-effects-hospitalization-kids-11626706868
Please, don't be afraid. Not sure what's motivating your attempts to minimise the impact of this pandemic on young people. Are you implying that the CDC is exaggerating Covid deaths, and if so then to what possible end? Excess mortality analyses suggest that deaths due to Covid-19 infection have typically been underestimated.
Here's some more grist to your propaganda/conspiracy mill.
And here's an informative and (imho) balanced article [9 August] – something for everyone; just please don't label it propaganda.
Decision to vaccinate children rests on ethics rather than science
Tricky risk-benefit calculations are being made — with countries coming to different conclusions.
Not poor spreaders of Delta.
Experiment on the young to save the old and infirm…
You could ask what thousands of parents who owe their children's lives to other experimental surgeries and treatments think.
You could also ask the parents of children who didn’t survive experimental surgeries or treatments, and gauge their reflections on whether hopes for success or contributing to aid efforts to eliminate diseases, is too high a price to pay to avoid suffering or death.
It's possible they may view things a bit differently. Mile in who's shoes?
False dichotomy.
House prices above sustainable levels
“The key drivers of housing supply and demand have turned around,”
Maybe it isn't lack of supply that is keeping house prices high, which we keep being told is the cause of high house prices.
https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/news/2021/08/house-prices-above-sustainable-levels
[link tidied up]
[Changed user name to previously approved one. Please stick to one user name and e-mail address]
Austin Mitchell, who spent some time in NZ in 60s and 70s has died.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/18/former-great-grimsby-labour-mp-austin-mitchell-dies-aged-86
Wrote a gentle, only slightly satirical book on life in NZ.
The Half-Gallon Quarter-Acre Pavlova Paradise.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Half-Gallon_Quarter-Acre_Pavlova_Paradise
NZ was a workers paradise for a brief shining moment.
Until Roger & Ruth (2009 article).
And now, because Robbo is useless: Home ownership at lowest level since 1951
All the same, RIP to a top bloke.
No, until Roger and Richard.
I was referring to the finance ministers who really turbocharged inequality in NZ : Rogernomics (Roger Douglas) and Ruthanasia (Ruth Richardson)