Open mike 19/02/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 19th, 2012 - 32 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

32 comments on “Open mike 19/02/2012”

  1. Ad 1

    Great to see the NZHerald editorial this morning underlining that the Government are making complete morons of themselves about asset sales, with the conflation in the public mind of the Crafar farms sales and the State Owned Enterprises selldown. Makes Fran O’Sullivan look a more solitary voice. Can National recover this budget 2012 now?


    “…The names behind a crack team of some of America’s top data wonks building a digital campaign from bottom up…”


  3. Te Reo Putake 3

    The Gillard camp appear to be going low, releasing a tape overnight of then PM Kevin Rudd having a mini meltdown while channelling Malcolm Tucker. Quite funny, but a bit weird.

    • ianmac 3.1

      Rather wondered how that tape came to be filmed. Camera on fixed point? Wasn’t secretly taped I hope. 🙂 He says he was telling himself off. Weird!

      • Te Reo Putake 3.1.1

        It looks like out takes from a prepared broadcast, in a ‘message from the PM’s desk’ style. One of the stories I read about it (the Age, I think), said that it would almost certainly have come direct from the PM’s office, who have an archive of material recorded in house. In other words, leaked by the current occupant, Julia Gillard.

        • Bill

          That’s a satelite feed. Saw a docu (from the 90’s) that was made up of this stuff. (US politicians ‘mouthing off’ unaware that the signal was broadcast whether or not they were ‘on air’. Anyone can pick it up if they have a satelite, patience and a bit of fortunate timing.

        • ianmac

          It did look as though it had been edited and I suspect that parts were re-run. Actual length of self-admonishment might have been quite short.
          Similar footage of Mr Key? “Hells bells John. You idjit. Wot were you thinking of?! Asset Sales? Wot a mess! And adopting that Banks fellow! Wot a fool I am. Golly gosh! And where is Richie when I need him. Oh hell!”

  4. Herodotus 4

    If there ever was a better text book case of trading in property I can not imagine. I hope the IRD are watching. Unfortunately should Labours CGT have been implemented, with the right structures this person would be paying $150,000 less tax then they should currently be !!!!!

    • RedBaron 4.1

      Not necessarily so. CGT should tax gains on all property transactions not taxed under the Trading rules. The distinction between “trading” and “investment” in properties should remain otherwise all property dealing companies would have a favourable tax rate of 15%?
      This as you point out is likely to be classed as “trading” attracting normal company/trust rates not just simply the CGT for “investment” dealings .

      • Herodotus 4.1.1

        Even though this is on the surface an obvious case of trading, it could be still a one off and may have been compliant to being under CGT. I have seen many examples such as this and no tax has been paid. Some worse when the S&P agreement has been signed and before settlement the property resold or the contract assigned to a 3rd party, and in one case a property marketed by the “new” vendor when the S&P agreement was not signed !!!
        With varying personal tax rates, 28% coy and trusts, CGT 15% and the abilty in some cases that such transactions could still attract no tax we allow those better off and can afford advice to pay minimal tax and the PAYE/beneficary (Mums and Dads – who are saving to buy the promised power coy shares ;-( ) suffer paying max. on a subsistance wage Just another example of the widening gap of the rich and the rest.

        • RedBaron

          Agree Herodotus. The opportunity for transactions to slip through the net and wind up at a lower rate is always there. Personally I think the trust rate and the company rate should equal the top personal rate.

          • Herodotus

            And no exemptions on CGT – with family home at a lower rate than other dwellings. Say family home @ 10% and other dwellings @ 20% – And somehow attack the grey/black market and dress it up in Lab skins and I would struggle to vote against the red team.
            Given that there would be no reason to increase or creat other new taxes, as the additional taxes received would pay for all adequate govt services and govt assistance. And finally for me that would mean that the poor PAYE person would not be seen as the source of govt tax funds, those currently evade paying would be where the new revenue streams would be sourced from. A perfect solution !!!! 😉

  5. johnm 5

    The Fight Of The Century
    By Richard Heinberg
    “As economies contract, a global popular uprising confronts power elites over access to the essentials of human existence. What are the underlying dynamics of the conflict, and how is it likely to play out? ”


    “To reiterate the theme of this essay one last time: The decline in resources available to support societal complexity will generate a centrifugal force breaking up existing economic and governmental power structures everywhere. As a result there is a fight brewing—a protracted and intense one, impacting most countries if not all—over access to a shrinking economic pie. It will manifest not only as competition among nations, but also as conflicts within nations between power elites and the increasingly impoverished masses.”

    We are now in the decline phase of Industrial Civilization (I know this Macro stuff doesn’t register on most people’s radar!) due to the continuing contraction of its resource base and we have not only maxed out our credit card 100 times over there’s no credit left permanently!

    We’re in for a permanent struggle on how to share the shrinking pie.Already happening here since 1984 selling of assets which enable hard cash for the common good of all kiwis, rich, poor, in the middle ,deserving and undeserving, now the rich in this country are pulling up the ladder and pretending 250,000 poor kiwi kids don’t exist.

    With a nod to R Atack and afktt.

    • Bill 5.1

      A straightforward grab for power through (in part) a rolling back of social provisions, including pensions etc. In other words, class warfare.

      The Euro, some argue, has been a quite deliberately engineered success. Crashing economies provide a ‘clean up’ opportunity to elites. The current ‘problems’ with the Euro were foreseen and yet financial centralisation (pan European interest rates etc) proceeded. The resulting economic chaos (predicted) means that European welfare provisions can be dismantled and a wholly inadequate US style ‘safety net’ installed in their stead.

      And in NZ, it might appear to an impartial observor that economic strategy is predicated on bringing on a crisis that will (funnily enough) be advantageous to elite interests.

      Meanwhile, economists are pointing to China’s internal contradictions and to the fact that it is one very big red bubble on the cusp of bursting.

  6. 99.5% of teachers (who are not guilty of any misconduct) find themselves in a politically charged environment fueled by dodgy journalism. The Government is again involved in creating a nonexistent crisis to introduce unnecessary change.

    • ianmac 6.1

      Of course the damage is done the moment that the headlines are read Dave. By the time the incredibly low incidence is explained as only .05% of 50,000+ teachers the population still remembers only the headline.
      And the reason for such teacher-bashing? Steven Joyce at work here? And the timing to distract the voters?

      • mac1 6.1.1

        Amen, ianmac. This was a topic on National radio this morning and mentioned the blogs as a place where this bad reporting got good coverage.


        The following came from the Teacher’s Council in their latest newsletter.

        “Following the news headlines, Thomas Lumley, a Statistics Professor from The University of Auckland released ‘Tip of the icecube’ on StatsChat.

        His column provides context and is a basis for comparison with other professions.

        Teachers: there are close to 98,000 teachers, which is around one complaint per 290 teachers per year.

        Police: there was one complaint per four police per year, based on 2010/11 data that reported 2052 complaints to the Independent Police Conduct Authority.

        Journalists: as of the last Census, there were 4284 people in NZ employed as reporters, editors or sub-editors. While not all of these people are relevant to the Press Council, they recevied 149 complaints in 2010, of which 65 went to adjudication (one complaint per 66 journalists per year) with about half of those upheld.”

        • Dave Kennedy

          mac1-I referred to the complaints against journalist and police in my blog post but couldn’t find links to provide supporting data. I would be grateful if you could pass on some links so that I can do the same on my post. It is a little ironic that journalist’s behaviour deserves greater scrutiny than the teachers they condemn and yet they are more likely to be the ones believed in this instance.

          I am the first to admit there are and have been some teachers that let the profession down and more likely to have been so in past years when professional standards were not under the same level of scrutiny. The fact that most people have been through the education system and have probably suffered under at least one teacher who was less than professional only supports the anti feelings from many adults. Bad experiences and feelings of injustice tend to outweigh the positives. What many don’t realize is that teacher appraisals and school ERO reviews are generally quite thorough and it is not in the best interests of the profession to support teachers who should not be in the job.

          The perception that teacher unions block the dismissal of bad teachers is unfortunate but is really part of the right wing ideology that would give employers the right to dismiss without due process. As a DP of a school in the past I have been involved in cases of teacher competency and if proper process is followed, removing dangerous teachers from the classroom is not difficult. What we don’t hear about are the many teachers who have vindictive or unfounded charges made against them who leave the profession because of the emotional stress of defending themselves. I would say there are more good teachers who leave the profession because of unreasonable stress than are ever struck off due to serious misconduct.

          • mac1

            Dave Kennedy: hope this helps.
            ( finds there are 52460 teachers in state or state integrated schools.

            The Police Annual Report ( states there were in total 2052 complaints in 2010-11 (about the annual average). 552 complaints were category 1,2 or 3 which roughly were equivalent to the seriousness of the 664 teacher complaints. Police numbers are 8856 sworn officers.

   will find the newsletter source of their version of teacher complaints. (I googled

            My podcast reference above comes in about 29.50 minutes with the commentary on news coverage of two newspaper articles. Cheers.

  7. James 7

    America heading for war – again!

    • ianmac 7.1

      USA answer to everything. Bomb it.
      There is a waiting list of course. Countries who have unofficial nuclear arms and “must be attacked” with full force of arms:
      North Korea
      and then if there is any World left Iran.
      *Particularly dangerous as they are warlike and have a history of attacking other countries like Palestine, NZ, Iran, Lebanon. Must be stopped though USA turn a blind eye to the existence of Nuclear arms in Israel.

      • Populuxe1 7.1.1

        Wow – I must have slept through the American invasion of Pakistan and India – though I’m curious as to how the USA was able to stage a military attack on itself. North Korea is a very real threat to the world. And I’m sorry, but a bit of espionage and passport theft is hardly “attacking” – it’s rude and not particularly friendly, but it’s not Israel “attacking” New Zealand- certainly not compared to what they do to the Palestinians. Have a lie down.

      • aerobubble 7.1.2

        Rubbish, unless you understand and talk to why America uses military force (i.e. not just greed for profits) you simple insult yourself and us by you rancid nastiness of the only free nation on the planet. Have you seen our NZ MSM lately, its blandness is only matched by its distortion.
        If John Key had got one percent of the questioning the Republican candidates are right now he’d have been shown up for the cheap second hand car salesman he really is.

      • Populuxe1 7.1.3

        By the way, where’s Russia?

  8. Craig 8

    The Sunday Star Times has just uncovered evidence of another dodgy church/state relationship. In this case, it’s a Church of Scientology front group, Drug Free Ambassadors, which has received dosh from the government. Scientology has a habit of disregarding evidence-based pharmacological help for mental health conditions, including alcohol and drug addiction, and there have been several cases in which it was implicated in the deaths of those who required professional help.

    What is it with the Nats and dodgy religious groups?!!

  9. Te Reo Putake 9

    Key gets a caning in the TV3 poll; Shearer is in double figures in the preferred PM already. Call a snap election John, I dare ya.

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