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Open mike 19/03/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:25 am, March 19th, 2015 - 154 comments
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154 comments on “Open mike 19/03/2015”

  1. Sanctuary 1

    And the Herald’s intentions with yesterday’s story on Len Brown are revealed in todays editorial. Clearly, a Len Brown run for a third term would be bitterly opposed by the Herald, who annointed Goff their preferred candidate today.

    I find their reasoning quite interesting. The clear assumption is Goff will be a right wing mayor, another neo-liberal wolf in sheeps clothing. I guess the big question is this – who is the best candidate to stop privatisation of the CCO’s and ensure the CRL planning goes ahead until such time as a Labour government wins power and Hide’s insane governance model is reformed? If that is your criteria then Goff is as good as any, and his electability is better than anyones.

    • tc 1.1

      Diversion tactics 101, find a plausible yet ambiguous topic that you can publish no end of speculation over I.e. no facts or hard evidence required.

      Anything but Sabin, northland by election pork barrelling, milk solids price impact of Blingish already BS numbers and how about that 25k liu donation to name a few issues of far more relevance.

    • Tracey 1.2

      Sigh

      That indeed IS the question….

      When Banks didn’t get to be mayor of the ACT/National juggernaut as planned whoever did get in was going to feel the full force of DP.

      Dark days ahead

      • Gosman 1.2.1

        DP?

      • jenny kirk 1.2.2

        Yep – I’ve been thinking along those lines too. Auckland will be sold off (the remains of what hasn’t somehow been sold yet) . Sigh ….. and after all the hard work done by hundreds of Aucklanders backing City Vision trying to keep the super-city intact.

    • The Murphey 1.3

      Nz MSM and Nz politics both have the same controllers it would seem

      Quite the conspiracy

  2. adam 2

    Interesting piece on USA weapon sales – http://www.publicintegrity.org/2015/03/16/16913/america-remains-top-arms-seller-world

    The old adage – “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” – gets play out well in this piece.

    http://www.publicintegrity.org/2015/03/17/16895/south-african-who-attacked-nuclear-plant-hero-his-government-and-fellow-citizens

    On what Iprent was saying the other day about new/continuation of Nuclear arms race – The centre for public integrity will be publishing some more on the Nuclear issue over the next few days – I’ll keep you posted.

    • Colonial Rawshark 2.1

      war is a racket…

      listen to USA’s exhortations to EU countries that they must spend more more more on their militaries

  3. Clemgeopin 3

    Whangarei MP Shane Reti called the protest group organiser last week and told her to stop “agitating” for tar-sealed roads during the by-election campaign. And if they didn’t stop, their wish may not get fulfilled!

    It is outrageous for a Government, a Minister or an MP, in a democracy to tell people who are exercising their legitimate rights of freedom and protesting about any issue (dusty roads that need tar seal in this case), to shut up for two weeks until the by-election is finished. It is even more outrageous to be threatened that ‘if you don’t stop protesting for the next two weeks, we will punish you by not doing a bloody thing about those roads!’ That is definitely blackmail, worse than what Aaron Gilmore did.

    National’s campaign manager, Steven Joyce, says there were no instructions to MPs to shut down protest groups. Mr Key says he had nothing to do with Dr Reti’s call.

    This arrogant and disgraceful MP, Reti should resign or be sacked immediately. There is no other way. Nothing else is good enough. Is there?

    http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/labour-pm-must-deal-with-bullying-mp-2015031904

    • Clemgeopin 3.1

      The end of the second paragraph should read :

      It is even more outrageous to be threatened with threats which imply that ‘if you don’t stop protesting for the next two weeks, we will punish you by not doing a bloody thing about those roads!’ That is definitely blackmail, worse than what Aaron Gilmore did.

    • SMILIN 3.2

      Key is responsible for his govt why lie about it culpable

  4. alwyn 4

    ” ‘if you don’t stop protesting for the next two weeks, we will punish you by not doing a bloody thing about those roads!”
    You give this statement as a direct quote. They don’t appear in the story you link to.
    Can you please provide a source for these words being used?

    • Clemgeopin 4.1

      They are not the DIREST exact words of Reti but they may as well be because that IS the intent and implications of his threat and blackmail.

      However, I have added a further comment to my original comment as follows:

      The end of the second paragraph should read :

      It is even more outrageous to be threatened with threats which imply that ‘if you don’t stop protesting for the next two weeks, we will punish you by not doing a bloody thing about those roads!’ That is definitely blackmail, worse than what Aaron Gilmore did.

      • jenny kirk 4.1.1

        The moment we all heard about Reti’s comments (up here in the north) we thought he’d taken a leaf out of his master’s book – threatening to withdraw funding for the 10 bridges if the Nats don’t win this by-election. If Shon Key can indulge in a little blackmail to voters, why shouldn’t Reti follow in his footsteps ? Definitely blackmail.

    • freedom 4.2

      alwyn, “…” signifies a quote, not ‘…’
      Clemgeopin clearly used the latter

  5. jenny kirk 5

    On a different topic – I see in the Dom Post that the infamous health scheme initiated by Ryall owes millions in loans which are not being paid back. That health scheme is now being dismantled.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/67439973/Scheme-can-t-pay-back-loans

    “” The Government’s flagship health cost-cutting scheme has taken out millions of dollars worth of taxpayer-funded loans, despite concerns it could not pay a cent back, new documents reveal. ………………………””
    “” The organisation is now the subject of an investigation by the auditor-general. ……..””
    “” HBL is being wound down by Health Minister Jonathan Coleman in June, with its programmes transferred to Auckland regional DHB-led services provider HealthAlliance. ………….””

    And I’m left wondering why the heck certain southern health boards are going ahead with its ‘frozen food from Auckland for the patients ‘ proposal when it appears to have been such a shonky scheme.

    • rawshark-yeshe 5.1

      What extraordinary failure …. and who needs $10 million to develop business plans ? Was this using private consultants ? And now Alkd DHB has to absorb the loss of funds? Baby cheeses.

      And agree Jenny .. why on earth would Dunedin be buying frozen pre-cooked food from Auckland ? Clearly nothing to do with patient health and well-being. Stupid, stupid people.

      ( And have to ask now .. was Ryall pushed for incompetence ?)

  6. Karen 6

    This interview with Key by the Northern Advocate this morning is worth a read:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11419691

    • Sans Cle 6.1

      Thanks Karen. Great article. It reminds me of Effie Trinket visiting District 12!

    • ianmac 6.2

      Thanks Karen. Insightful interview. All those media/security minders! And an interesting trawl through the Northern Advocate.
      And the frank and honest response from the PM to the questions asked? Not so much.

    • rawshark-yeshe 6.3

      Key’s answers read like a Crosby and Textor report card. The interviewer tried, but slippery Key just slimes all over it as usual and never deviates from his scripts.

      Personally, I would have offered him the black cup for some mana, so to speak.

      • jenny kirk 6.3.1

        Yes Rawshark but at least the way Ms Laird has written up the story just helps show up Shon Key and his slippery non-answers all the more ! And this paper goes out all over the place in the north.

    • Bearded Git 6.4

      @Karen
      Yep thanks for that Karen. Nicely written piece. Key hates being asked tough questions.

      Incidentally there was an editorial in the ODT yesterday that was very critical of the behaviour of Key and his government, especially in terms of lack of transparency and what this means for democracy.

    • tracey 6.5

      I am surprised the herald picked it up.

    • grumpystilskin 6.6

      As usual, read the comments. Very telling about the true state of the campaign..

    • Olwyn 7.1

      How heartening it is to read of Kshama Sawant! I found this bit particularly striking:

      “The idea that things have to get a lot worse to have some sort of awakening and bring about an alternative to this corrupt and defunct corporate political system is inaccurate,” she said to me. “What we need is a big surge for an independent working-class political alternative while people are experiencing a sense of confidence, after decades of bitter defeat…

      I remember Xtasy, who I think must have left the country, saying we that need a new left wing political party. What we need more is a grassroots political movement that is able to make its presence felt, whether or not it takes the form of a political party.

      • Colonial Rawshark 7.1.1

        What we need more is a grassroots political movement that is able to make its presence felt, whether or not it takes the form of a political party.

        Ideally it will not be in the form of a political party, but in the form of a pressure/action/education movement which applies leverage to the pressure points of every political party.

        • Olwyn 7.1.1.1

          I agree with you where New Zealand is concerned. A political party would become an option if the movement’s concerns were not met by existing political vehicles, and the momentum was sufficient to make forming a party look like a goer. But the ability to make our presence felt has to come first.

          • Colonial Rawshark 7.1.1.1.1

            ideally what would happen is that some capable individuals from the movement would over time eventually join every political party. This would give the movement some voice from within the parties as well, possibly even as candidates and MPs.

            However, the independent pressure and presence outside the institutional establishment must always stay strong and separate from those political parties, if the true and honest voice of the people is to be heard true and loud in Wellington. At the moment, it’s not.

            • Olwyn 7.1.1.1.1.1

              I think I see what you are getting at now – that a pressure group outside of the institutional establishment is not open to being transformed into yet another vehicle for the political class. I accept that point, and am mindful as well of the precarious path to a new party’s becoming established. I do not suggest a new party as a desirable outcome (I am a LP member, probably for similar reasons to yours) but would not rule it out altogether where a movement was able to gain real momentum at the grassroots level without also gaining real political influence within the existing establishment.

              • Colonial Rawshark

                Yes indeed. The Left needs to re-examine what having “real political influence” means in a modern context. The Right have got the idea very well and exercise their own version of it reasonably ably (sometimes).

            • SMILIN 7.1.1.1.1.2

              Party politics is undemocratic by nature it requires manipulation of the vote to achieve an out come and its is not responsible to the voters only the party
              A successful candidate at an election serves his party before the voters or he does not get the favour of the party classic in Northland not much gets done just vote accumulation for the National party’s overall gerrymandering of political system, until now a bunch of false promises and unrealistic political expectations. The destruction of the RMA and the sovereignty of the nations resources in the area ie a sellout to the oil companies spells a F.U.C.K.E.D. PARADISE
              Key is a liar and a cheat

          • greywarshark 7.1.1.1.2

            Olwyn and CR
            Would a left wing think tank be a vehicle that would match what you are talking about they seem very influential and regularly back the memes being presented by RW parties particularly?

            • Olwyn 7.1.1.1.2.1

              I cannot speak for CR, but to me it would be an important part of such a movement. I will have to look up what Sue Bradford has to say about it, since that is the subject of her doctorate. One thing a think tank would hopefully do is pull some of the disparate threads of the left together.

      • adam 7.1.2

        I think Kshama points out an important issue that was taught to left – the hard way, the last election.

        Never take money from the corporations.

        Even if that corporation is fighting with other corporations, and may be extradited.

        Grass roots is going to be broke – all that means is – it must be smarter.

        • Olwyn 7.1.2.1

          I do not have any beef with either Dotcom or Hone Harawira. I think the lesson there was that money sans connections can be more damaging than no money. There is nothing the powerful hate more than a large sum of money that is not subject to their own concerns and agreements. And I wholeheartedly agree with you about money with corporate strings attached, whether potentially or actively.

    • ianmac 7.2

      How can this be? “She holds a doctorate in economics…” An economist who is driving changes to help the disadvantaged? Must be an aberration. Get rid of her say the powerful country wide elite.
      And fancy bringing Seattle to its knees my raising the minimum wage to $15! Sacrilege. Thanks Adam.

  7. rawshark-yeshe 8

    Have puzzled for days on the reasons Mark Osborne secured Nat selection … have written several times that I think he must have been ‘bought’ for his silence. No basis for it, other than a gut response to his ineptitude .. and yes, I accept he was approved as candidate when Key arrogantly believed there was never a problem in this safe seat.

    But this was posted under a March 12 Dita di Boni Herald story on Northland …

    Quote:
    “The National ‘candidate’ owns the local beauty parlour where his wife and until the s**t hit the fan, Mike Sabin’s wife did all the work, he is not known for his ‘work ethic’. ”

    So I am curious if anyone will confirm this ? That Osborne owns the business where Mrs Sabin and Mrs Osborne worked together, that is until Mrs Sabin didn’t for whatever personal reasons?

    So has Osborne been bought for his silence on what has happened to Sabin and his family ?

    Comment by Barnzy at 11.07 am .. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11415670

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11415670

    • rawshark-yeshe 8.1

      So how much did Osborne lie to various media when he said he knew nothing of Sabin’s ‘personal matters’ ?

      Oh, how I hope Winston bloodies the nose of Key and his crony government. I hope he leaves them reeling and unable to proceed with their anti-NZ agenda.

      • ianmac 8.1.1

        I think Winston has already bloodied Key’s nose. The fact that the Nats have had to stir themselves and spend big money would never have happened without Winston. Even should Winston not win I am sure that Northland will greatly benefit from the exposure. Woe betide Key if he doesn’t act in the future.

        • Colonial Rawshark 8.1.1.1

          Winston the cunning old dog figured out very quickly that participating in the Northland by-election was a win win for NZ First. Labour eventually figured out that participating in the Northland by-election was going to be a lose-lose for them.

          National, they’re just in total reactive mode right now. And ruing how they did not pause for a moment to stick the knife in Winston proper when he was down and out a few years ago.

          • Tracey 8.1.1.1.1

            they look panicked… and some who have so far been unquestioning of this Government, imust begin to wonder why…

        • rawshark-yeshe 8.1.1.2

          @ianmac — yes, much woe betiding 😀 But i want Winston to complete the fight.

          and CR .. I thought they did stick the knife in again and again and think him finished. What a lovely horror story for them.

          • greywarshark 8.1.1.2.1

            rawshark yeshe
            Shades of the Terminator reforming from small pools of metal that roll together, coalesce and rise! I will be back says Winston.

        • SMILIN 8.1.1.3

          You cant put anything past this govt when it comes to lying and cheating, its head honcho is the master of lies for the whole western alliance

        • Murray Rawshark 8.1.1.4

          In the future? With what FJK did, he should have resigned already.

    • jenny kirk 8.2

      Nope – I think you’ll find its not Sabin’s wife who is the hairdresser/beautician, but Osborne’s wife. She runs the beauty parlour, so I’ve been told.
      But I do have to say , if Osborne didn’t know much about Sabin before the 2014 election, he probably was the only one in the north who wasn’t questionning that very issue !

      • Murray Rawshark 8.2.1

        The average New Zealand Beauty Salon employs five people. It’s entirely possible that they worked together.

        Mark and Jodi Osborne are the owners of Doubtless Beauty in Mangonui, which is just over the hill from Coopers Beach.

  8. Tracey 9

    According to Slater the prominent NZer who has name suppression that will lapse today is not Mike Sabin but the person Cunliffe had lunch with.

    If true, Hooton was particularly mischievious by referring to this in a thread where I asked if Sabin was forgotten.

    Key crosses a bridge too far

    Chutzpah in Northland

    • Tracey 9.1

      Would Cunliffe have known about the charges at the time he met this person (if what Cameron Slater says about the person is correct)? I imagine there would have been name suppression? Was it widely rumoured at the time? If Cunliffe were to be assumed knowledge of this person’s alleged crimes, would not the same apply to Key’s knowledge of Sabin’s?

      • rawshark-yeshe 9.1.1

        Perfect logic Tracey … but we can’t expect Key and msm to play by the same rules they apply to Labour !

        Funny, I believe Cunliffe had no idea, but Key knew everything.

        • amirite 9.1.1.1

          Not just knew, but appointed him to as chairman of Parliament’s law and order committee.
          Cunliffe didn’t have any political dealings with that other offender.

        • tracey 9.1.1.2

          It seems to me that parliament is the last place to keep a secret. It strikes me as a very insular, gossipy, incestuous place (I include media gallery in this).

          So IF it is the person who cunliffe had lunch with, what do we think the headline will be???

    • Lanthanide 9.2

      Have you got a link for whaleoil?

    • veutoviper 9.3

      Different ends of the country, Tracey.

      The case of the prominent NZer who Cunliffe met took place down south and has finished, with the person given permanent name suppression – against the wishes of the victim and others.

      The court hearing that happened on the same day (30 Jan 2015) as Sabin resigned took place at the other end of the country. Although all details were suppressed, including the District Court where the hearing took place, one online (only) news service (Yahoo) actually published the location.

      I will not publish a link but their article is still available via Google, using “disputed facts hearing NZ”; country NZ; and customizing the time period for the search.

      [WARNING to anyone who finds the article – DO NOT provide a link or name the location here on TS, as the location suppression still continues until lifted.]

      Tracey, re your first sentence in your comment @ 9 – Where and when did Slater say that the person whose name suppression will lapse today (unless appealed) is not Sabin but the person who Cunliffe had lunch with?

      I have been going to WO using Donotlink to see what he writes on the suppression case(s) quite regularly as WO claims to know a lot about the case or cases (he has implied that there are more than one) but have not seen him claim what you said.

      He has written a number of posts on the subject but has been very careful to not breach suppression and has moderated comments strongly to avoid this.

      I am not going to go back there and search his archives, but remember that on occasions (including just a couple of days ago) he has implied that there may be more than one person up on current charges with name suppression – but I do not recall anything that linked these current cases with the closed case down south.

      • tracey 9.3.1

        Thanks, googled. I posted the link above…

        • rawshark-yeshe 9.3.1.1

          and they were adults in the south case, able to request lifting of their personal name suppression but failed in removing suppression of the felon’s name. Derryn Hinch in Oz made it plain he didn’t like it much.

    • veutoviper 9.4

      UPDATE

      Re the case where name suppression is due to expire at 5pm today, Graeme Edgeler has just tweeted that he understands that an appeal is being lodged today, so the suppression will not lapse.

      Last night, Graeme and Matt Nippert (NZ Herald) also had an interesting Twitter exchange, presumably also related to this case. Matt has been trying to get the terms of the suppression order, without success.

      EDIT – the latter case may not be the same as Matt mentions High Court in this twitter exchange, whereas I think the other case is still in the District Court.

      • rawshark-yeshe 9.4.1

        confusion again then ?

        • veutoviper 9.4.1.1

          I may be in this instance as to whether Matt’s inquiries are about the same case – or a related but separate case.
          The situation seems quite similar, however, in terms of not being able to get the terms of the suppression order ……

      • Karen 9.4.2

        I think the appeal against the name suppression in the case we are all interested in has to be lodged in the high court. I suspect it is the same case Matt Nippert is talking about because he first applied a month ago and was complaining about the refusal taking so long.

        I would be very surprised if an appeal against the lifting of name suppression was not lodged today, and by leaving it until just before the deadline it is not likely to be heard this month. I doubt if there is any justification for the appeal, but certain people will not want it declined in the near future, hence the cynical last minute submission.

        • veutoviper 9.4.2.1

          Thanks, Karen. I think you are right about the appeal having to be lodged with the High Court. I also think Matt’s application probably is related.

          Leaving the lodging of an appeal today will delay matters and is not unexpected as National certainly don’t want anything getting out into the public arena until after the by-election. Don’t think it will do them any good, though!

          • tracey 9.4.2.1.1

            and so the appeal lodged today will take revelation past the Northland election date?

            The National voters of northland need to drink a can of give a fuck and do the right thing.

        • rawshark-yeshe 9.4.2.2

          Thx Karen … how cynical they are. Interesting you doubt any justification for the appeal ? I expect it due to ‘family matters’.

          Key must be sweating blood …. and it couldn’t happen to a better politician.

      • veutoviper 9.4.3

        FURTHER UPDATE

        Victoria Young of NBR has confirmed that an appeal has now been lodged and NBR will have an article up shortly. Graeme Edgeler replied that one or two weeks would normally be enough to file such an appeal – as oppose to four weeks in this case.

      • Murray Rawshark 9.4.4

        The suppression order was made and lifted in the District Court. The appealing of the lifting of the order therefore has to be in the High Court. Lodging the appeal on the last possible day is a cynical move to keep the incidents out of the election campaign. The Herald is applying to the High Court to expedite the appeal with urgency.

        FJK and NAct are lower than I had ever thought possible in our country.

    • Murray Rawshark 9.5

      Slater is lying. The charges are different.

  9. Tracey 10

    or maybe I have completely misunderstood…. so many maybes…

    • rawshark-yeshe 10.1

      so maybe have a nice cuppa ? we got there in the end .. well, as far as we could ! 🙂

      • Anne 10.1.1

        I’m cutting to the chase!

        The suppression order which lapsed today is [deleted]. Of course an appeal was lodged. [deleted]

        The MSM if they had any guts would – en masse – ignore the judiciary and print/speak what they know.

        [lprent: Too far and too much danger for the site. ]

        • rawshark-yeshe 10.1.1.1

          well sliced Anne ! This goes to the heart of Nats corruption… secrets kept for three elections. Something will come out, I have to believe it as the alternative is just too awful.

        • tracey 10.1.1.2

          Someone needs to (and I never thought I would write that)

          • Anne 10.1.1.2.1

            When it comes to the establishment and authoritarian regimes like the police, I have a healthy dose of contempt born out of experience. After a number of years of clandestine bullying, intimidation and some other worse forms of criminal behaviour, I approached the police (half a dozen times in total) and they did nothing. Why? Because there was a strong political element to the case, and I was on the ‘wrong’ side of the political fence. It therefore suited them to treat me and my claims with derision. It all happened 20+ years ago now, but I don’t see that anything much has changed.

            Hence I have no qualms calling them out when I perceive it to be appropriate… regardless of consequences.

        • rawshark-yeshe 10.1.1.3

          Here it is … and several media applying for urgency on the appeal …

          “A prominent New Zealander charged with indecent assault has lodged an appeal after losing his bid for name suppression.

          The man lost suppression on February 19 but had his identity protected for one month to allow him the chance to appeal. That appeal was lodged today.

          The man denies 12 charges of indecent assault against two people including two representative charges.

          Heavy suppression orders mean the man cannot be identified, nor can his alleged victims or their ages.

          He has elected trial by jury.

          The charges, which include allegations of touching the complainants on the breast, buttocks, groin and thigh, are punishable by up to 10 years’ imprisonment.

          Several media organisations, including NZME. publisher of The New Zealand Herald, have lodged a joint request for the appeal to be heard with urgency.”

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11419961

      • tracey 10.1.2

        I blame the toffee pops and my complete inability to resist them… addled me poor brain (and the guy mowing lawns for 1.5 hours)

  10. Ennui 11

    Anybody notice that there were anti neo lib riots in Germany today..350 arrests. Burnt cars. Tear gas. .saw it on RT and BBC. Looked on the rest of the MSN. …Zippo. The revolution will not be televised.

    • greywarshark 11.1

      @ Ennui
      I heard about the protest.. They are blaming the ECB. A spokesperson for the ECB complained that the protesters did not give them credit for trying to cushion economic blows to the economy. The economy is still alive and well and moving forward in its wheelchair with the help of dedicated attendants. The people are alive and not very well and protesting.

  11. The IPCC report on the pork’s investigation of the Roastbusters is out. No surprises: they were useless and failed at the most basic standards of investigation. Floods of crocodile tears are flowing. Disgusting.

    Here’s the form of press releases to follow in all such circumstances in chronological order.

    1. There is no problem. Nobody has complained. What’s your problem?

    2. You are being mischievous in claiming that there is a problem and undermining public confidence in our good work.

    3. There might be a problem, but we are very disappointed that you brought this to public attention when we were really dealing with it.

    4. It’s an isolated case.

    5. We regret that an external authority has shown us to be absolutely fucking useless because one of the perpetrators was a cop’s son but it’s all historical and everything’s been fixed now so I don’t know why you’re making a fuss about it now.

    Repeat the next time it inevitably happens.

    • Molly 13.1

      The 44 page document from the IPCA can be found here: 19 March 2015 IPCA Public Report – Report on Police’s handling of the alleged offending by ‘Roastbusters’.pdf.

      Summary of Findings
      114. The Authority has made the following findings:
      114.1 – The initial response to the incidents by GDB and CIB staff was adequate and proper.
      114.2 – CPT staff did not adequately follow up and pursue positive lines of enquiry.
      114.3 – CPT staff should have more accurately recorded and more adequately assessed information obtained during their respective investigations.
      114.4 – Officer B’s supervision and oversight of the cases for which he was responsible was adequate and appropriate.
      114.5 – Officer C did not adequately supervise and oversee the cases for which he was responsible.
      114.6 – The fact that the father of one of the young men was a Police officer had no influence on Police’s handling of the investigations.
      114.7 – CPT staff did not properly evaluate all available offences when determining the outcome of their respective investigations.
      114.8 – CPT staff failed to properly consider alternative action to address the potential offending behaviour of the young men involved and their care and protection issues.
      114.9 – CPT staff did not adequately communicate and engage with the young men and their families.
      114.10 – CPT staff did not adequately consult and communicate with external stakeholders.
      114.11 – CPT staff, particularly at supervisory level, did not adequately communicate with each other.

      Conclusions and Recommendations
      115. The Authority appreciates that the incidents involving the ‘Roastbusters’ presented Police with a complex set of challenges. The reprehensible and unacceptable behaviour demonstrated by this group of young men was further complicated by other issues. These included the vulnerability and fragility of the young women, the impact of peer, familial and social pressures in adolescence, attitudes towards sexual behaviour and the use of alcohol and other drugs, and the influence of youth culture and social media.

      116. Indeed, the issues were such that it is unlikely they could have ever been dealt with meaningfully and effectively solely by Police. Regrettably, Police had numerous opportunities to ‘connect the dots’ earlier, to generate a more organised, expansive and cohesive response, and to work in collaboration with CYF, the schools, and the parents of these young men to prevent their behaviour from continuing.

      117. While it is evident that the Police investigators were motivated to act in accordance with the wishes of the young women, and in their best interests, they focused on the victim’s wishes about prosecution in each individual case and failed to give adequate weight to the potential risk of harm to other young women. Critically, too, the Police investigations into these cases failed in several significant areas to meet the requirements of a good criminal investigation. Deficiencies in investigation practices, poor knowledge or understanding of legislation, and inadequate supervisory oversight were some of the primary factors that led to assessments that lacked critical analysis and sound, evidence-based, decision-making.

      118. In the Authority’s view, most of the deficiencies identified in the Police investigations are a result of poor individual practices and cannot be said to be representative of Police child abuse investigations nationwide. The Authority considers that it was the failure of CPT officers to conduct their investigations to the required level, sufficiently meeting the standards of current policy and guidelines, that has had serious consequences in this instance. However, while existing Police child protection policy and investigation guidelines are sound, the lack of emphasis on prevention may be indicative of a more general problem with policy and practice requiring further attention. Police, themselves, have acknowledged that this is an area requiring further policy development to guide Police practice.

      119. In 2007, following the 2004 Commission of Inquiry into Police Conduct, Dame Margaret Bazley reported that she was satisfied that child abuse policy (applicable at that time) was being applied consistently by Police and was “working well in practice”. However, a special investigation, the ‘Inquiry into Police Conduct, Practices, Policies and Procedures Relating to the Investigation of Child Abuse, commenced by the Authority in December 2009, found that this was not, in fact, the case in a number of policing districts around the country. In May 2010, at the conclusion of the inquiry, the Authority made 34 recommendations to Police to rectify the shortcomings identified.

      120. It is disturbing that several themes identified as a result of the Authority’s child abuse inquiry (such as deficiencies in investigative practices, file recording, collaboration with CYF, and case supervision) have, again, been highlighted in the Authority’s current investigation. This is notwithstanding the fact that the related recommendations made in 2010 to address the deficiencies were accepted and embedded by Police.

      121. The Authority’s focus in its investigation has been to identify what went wrong in this case so that similar failings can be avoided in the future. It has not considered what action, if any, should be taken in respect of the individual officers responsible for the performance shortcomings set out in this report. That is a matter for the Police.

    • tracey 13.2

      Thanks Rhinocrates and Molly, have created a post

    • Puckish Rogue 13.3

      pork?

  12. Pasupial 14

    IPCA report into; “Roast Busters”, is highly critical of police. But the only mention of reopening the case I’ve seen so far is:

    The authority recommended an audit be carried out into current cases being investigated by the Waitemata Child Protection Team to determine whether any individual shortcomings remained

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/67443183/ipca-roast-busters-report-slams-police

    Surely this can’t be the end of it when:

    Deficiencies included a failure to follow up and pursue positive lines of inquiry. Investigating staff also failed to properly consider all available offences in determining whether or not to prosecute the young men.

    Investigating officers tended to approach each case on an individual, case-by-case, basis simply to consider whether there was sufficient evidence to prosecute offenders for sexual violation. IPCA chair Judge Sir David Carruthers said.

    “In the authority’s view the officers should have identified the connections between the various cases and worked with other agencies to develop strategies to reduce the recurrence of what was clearly unacceptable and, in some cases, criminal behaviour. Victims were let down by their failure to do so.”

    • wyndham 14.1

      114.6 – The fact that the father of one of the young men was a Police officer had no influence on Police’s handling of the investigations.

      How can Sir David Carruthers make such a definitive statement ? I suggest it would be well-nigh impossible to find out the veracity of such a claim.

  13. rawshark-yeshe 15

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/public-healthcare/news/article.cfm?c_id=294&objectid=11419782

    10,000 Kiwi kids in need have support cut …

    But, but, but we need a new flag ???

  14. North 16

    In the nearly 50 years of being an adult so to speak and having a landline in my home I can’t remember when I received the last of maybe 3 unsolicited ‘research organisation’ calls seeking telephone survey participation.

    Last night I took a call from an articulate, pleasent voiced young man seeking that I respond to questions in respect of a “major government department”. I asked for the identity of the party commissioning the survey, noting that if it was the National Party……”not interested mate….”. The caller said “that should be obvious from the first question” but no, he was not allowed to expressly identify. Strange ? Refuse to tell me then tell me.

    I went along. There were put numerous questions the first and every one following about “the IRD”. For answer on a scale of 1-5. All boiling down to whether IRD is fair, understanding, uses technology well, etc etc. In the round broad brush stuff.

    This afternoon another call this time about the ACC. “We are in the middle of a by-election in Northland and I get two calls in two days to my identifiably Northland landline…….no thank you.”

    Call me suspicious…….but the coincidence of there being perhaps two and a half decades between the date of the last such call and the two successive days of the 4th and 5th ? About entities under the purview of a cabinet minister……

    Didn’t engage the second call but in yesterday’s – demographic established, level of education including degree/post graduate or not, self employed or not, various other categorisations canvassed. Yesterday’s caller did name the organisation conducting the survey which I don’t recall. Today’s didn’t as I recall but it was a short call.

    • tracey 16.1

      This PM does not indulge in coincidence. Have you asked at kiwiblog? Afterall Farrar has dipped his toe in ethics, hasn’t he? You know after DP?

      Incidentally I got a refund cheque fro IRD. had to wait for it to clear. Started to worry the government had bankrupted us 😉

    • Anne 16.2

      Of course it was not a coincidence. My God they’re getting desperate! Fancy resorting to the pretense of acting on behalf of two controversial govt. departments – IRD and ACC – to glean the views of your average punter in Northland. Next week, what’s the bet there are going to be two major reforms announced concerning the two departments in question.

      • tc 16.2.1

        Golden days for Davey boys Curia, him and the other players like Matty are simply loving the extra work desparation is throwing their way.

        Cripes they could bill any value and it would get paid the way listing ship NACT is behaving in order to get it back upright.

        • felix 16.2.1.1

          Don’t know about Matty, I thought he was still in the dog box. DP Farrar though, mad overtime.

  15. Paul 17

    News just out.
    ‘Prominent New Zealander charged with indecent assault appeals for name suppression.’

    A prominent New Zealander charged with indecent assault has lodged an appeal after losing his bid for name suppression.
    The man lost suppression on February 19 but had his identity protected for one month to allow him the chance to appeal. That appeal was lodged today.
    The man denies 12 charges of indecent assault against two people including two representative charges.
    Heavy suppression orders mean the man cannot be identified, nor can his alleged victims or their ages.
    He has elected trial by jury.
    The charges, which include allegations of touching the complainants on the breast, buttocks, groin and thigh, are punishable by up to 10 years’ imprisonment.
    Several media organisations, including NZME. publisher of The New Zealand Herald, have lodged a joint request for the appeal to be heard with urgency.’

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11419961

    • mickysavage 17.1

      Waited until the last day …

      • Paul 17.1.1

        Unbelievable corruption.

      • adam 17.1.2

        Well dirty is – what dirty does.

        I’m sure the amoral person is happy to help justice.

        Nothing to fear – nothing to hide?

        • Paul 17.1.2.1

          Yes interesting how some folk are allowed their own privacy.
          But don’t want the rest of us any privacy through the TPPA.

          • adam 17.1.2.1.1

            Privacy is the tool for the rich, to keep us in the dark, about the fact, they have no morals.

            • Paul 17.1.2.1.1.1

              Wonder how public this knowledge is.

              • rawshark-yeshe

                very, but not yet enough. http://www.donotlink.com/e67z

                • Pasupial

                  This has to qualify for some; worst taste ever, award. Using the day of an IPCA report that found that there was; “no indication that because one of the boys fathers was a policeman this had any influence in the early [rape] investigation” to distract from the continued name suppression of an ex-policeman accused of sexual assault. All in aid of not having to explain governmental appointments in the leadup to a rare consultation with those that government supposedly represents!

                  [If I’m flying too close to the wind for the legal wellbeing of TS in this comment, excise all but the first sentence and: Euuuwwww!!!]

                  • rawshark-yeshe

                    yes. very noticeable isn’t it ? then I thought I was just being toooo cynical. Yeah? Nah.

              • North

                In The North it is very much public knowledge, ackshilly……except that we engage in the charade of discussion with everyone knowing but no one ackshilly saying. As noted by me in a comment here a couple of days ago recounting dancing discussion with a reasonably senior cop. A man I respect very much whom I believe reciprocates that. Wan, ‘not saying’ smiles both sides…….much averting of the eyes.

                Notably, this man volunteered as follows when joshingly I enquired as to whether he was voting for Winston – “Well, I’ve always voted National……but this time……really……I dunno.” This man is hard National to coin a phrase ! What’s happening with soft National ? In fact this same man did say he thinks Winston’s gonna piss in.

                Which may reflect sentiment he’s privy to on the side of things to which I have minimal access. Although two decent fulla cops I’ve spoken to since are all thumbs up for WP. One had already early-voted.

                Completely off that thread – UKTV on in the background – that great wit Stephen Fry – “Confucious said……the good man knows what’s right……the sales man knows what sells !”

                Now doesn’t that put you in mind of our very own, variously, simpering, gauche, construct angry, gutless, lying, Richie stalking, Little Churchill man(?), on the 9th floor ?

                Which thoroughly accurate various characterisations ackshilly bring us full circle to revisit my policeman friend’s dilemma.

  16. freedom 18

    If this already got mentioned and I missed it, then just enjoy it all over again 🙂
    before you begin to shake with fear recalling these idiots have nukes

    • rawshark-yeshe 18.1

      didn’t link anywhere, freedom .. maybe check it ?

      • freedom 18.1.1

        fixed 🙂

        I get a recurring/sporadic/unpredictable problem when putting in clean linkys.
        When sending, something inserts extra quotation marks and drops the http: from the address leading to our friend 404, or similar denier of information.
        Sometimes I remember to check for it and fix it immediately,
        now, where did I put that post-it to remind me 🙂

        • rawshark-yeshe 18.1.1.1

          For Post Its I use the old AT Notes programme .. so brilliant but the inventor never did any further work on it, maybe he got bored. But it is still one of the best note systems around imho … so simple and reliable ..

          http://atnotes.free.fr/download.html

        • weka 18.1.1.2

          I find it easier to just post the link as its own visible self. We get to see the URL that way too, which is often helpful.

          • freedom 18.1.1.2.1

            Sometimes it is just aesthetics 🙂
            + you probably know this but if you hover over the clean-link you get the URL at the base of your browser and can always hover + right click for ‘open/copy/save URL” options

            • weka 18.1.1.2.1.1

              if we had button html instead of having to type it, I’d probably be more aesthetic too 😉

              Harder to see the URL on a phone, have to open a popup, although the txt size on my laptop isn’t that great either.

    • Macro 18.2

      Just as well we don’t have nukes! Key doesn’t even know what the gst is on $1.29.
      Then again he most likely will tell a made up number for the rate of unemployment and what our govt debt is running at – so it’s all good.

  17. SMILIN 19

    Why dont people get it Key is FASCIST !!!
    He has no right to be PM of this country and should be held up as the bastard he is
    How much damage can you think of that has directly impacted on those who depend on govt support thru no fault of their own who are being denied the help that any truly free society would ensure was there no matter what the prosperity of the others is
    You’d think this country was on the bones of its arse the way national portray it yet it is obvious we are run by a bunch of miserable self serving right wing capitalist who lie, destroy democracy and pander to a war machine that any sound thinking people would not have a bar of
    If we are over a monetarist barrel its because we have a traitor for a PM WHO IS NOT A NZER in my view because I grew up with people who had fought in a real war which was about the crap that this govt does without the sanction of a true vote. this govt is corrupt and out of control and we need a new system of representation in govt in this country

  18. rawshark-yeshe 20

    Just in case there wasn’t enough crappy news today, in barges Rupert Murdoch :

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/67448840/rupert-murdochs-news-corp-takes-apn-stake

  19. Draco T Bastard 21

    Why the Real Story of the Irish Exodus to America Isn’t Taught in Schools

    Thomas Gallagher points out in Paddy’s Lament that during the first winter of famine, 1846-47, as perhaps 400,000 Irish peasants starved, landlords exported 17 million pounds sterling worth of grain, cattle, pigs, flour, eggs, and poultry—food that could have prevented those deaths. Throughout the famine, as Gallagher notes, there was an abundance of food produced in Ireland, yet the landlords exported it to markets abroad.

    And the same is happening today in NZ. As our children go hungry the capitalists export food.

  20. b waghorn 22

    Gower on tv3 news tonight was saying Winston is going to make sure the Sabin news will get out before the election.
    And Osbourne was saying he knows nothing.

  21. Tautoko Mangō Mata 23

    ANDREW LITTLE speaking in Parliament on 10 Feb 2015.

    “What about the standards of the Government? What about the promise of 2008 that “The Government I lead will be a Government of good standards.”, and its chance to do something, its chance to demonstrate that National actually is a party of standards in Government? It was confronted with it at the end of last year. One of National’s MPs was under a police investigation. One of its MPs—
    Mr SPEAKER : Order! I invite members throughout this debate to be very careful. We know that there was a court case, and we know that all details were suppressed. [Interruption] Order! There is Standing Order 115. Should any members think I should consider this matter differently, I invite them to use that Standing Order and write to me. At this stage no member has done so. I invite Mr Little to continue.
    ANDREW LITTLE : Thank you, Mr Speaker. I understand and appreciate the caution you are expressing. I make no reference at all and make no comment beyond the fact that it is on the record that a MP was under a police investigation. He is not the first. That Government well knows, because it has drawn the attention of the public to other MPs under a police investigation—a police investigation that led to no outcome at all.
    But here is the point. We had an MP under investigation, who was then allowed by this Government to chair the parliamentary committee—
    Mr SPEAKER : Order! [Interruption] Order! I have given a ruling that I had given considerable consideration to. If the member continues in this vein, I will have no choice but to terminate his speech. I have given a ruling whereby we acknowledge there is a court case of which all details were suppressed. [Interruption] Order! This is a time when this Parliament has a responsibility, a duty, to respect the jurisdiction of the court, and I expect that to occur today. I invite Mr Little to continue.”
    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/debates/debates/daily/51HansD_20150210/volume-703-week-7-tuesday-10-february-2015

    • Murray Rawshark 23.1

      How can that idiot speaker claim to be protecting the integrity of parliament?

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