Open mike 19/04/2014

149 comments on “Open mike 19/04/2014 ”

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1. karol 1

   19 April 2014 at 7:22 am

   NZ Herald’s 50 coolest Kiwis is of passing interest, and says as much about the NZ Herald as it does about (allegedly) cool Kiwis – in some categories it seems being an Alpha male (or even an alpha female) gets a lot of applause. However, the politics category is pretty cool: the coolest MPs of all time – John A Lee, Marily Waring and Big Norm!.

   As for having Jacinda Ardern as the only cool current MP 🙄 – except it seems Labour MPs are cooler than any others!
   • mickysavage 1.1

     19 April 2014 at 7:26 am

     Yep although how they could miss out Michael Joseph Savage is beyond me. Marilyn Wearing is the only National MP I can think of who would have fitted perfectly well in the Labour Party.
     • Ergo Robertina 1.1.1

       19 April 2014 at 1:24 pm

       That’s the weakness list articles, they’re reductive, lack context, and are basically just lazy clickbait. Good to see it feature John A Lee though whom younger readers especially are less likely to know than Savage. I suppose if coolness was defined as being a maverick, while still achieving a significant political legacy, than Lee would win over Savage in those stakes. Well, before he became reactionary and hawkish in his later years, anyway.
       Lee on Savage:

       ”Joe sees socialism as piles of goods fairly equitably divided and work equitably divided. I am sure he never sees it as the opportunity to play football, get brown on the beach, dance a fox trot, lie on one’s back beneath the trees, enjoy the intoxication of verse, the perfume of flowers, the joys of a novel, the thrill of music.”

       Whereas now, it would be quite enough to have Labour MPs who embrace the utilitarian tenets of socialism.
       • newsense 1.1.1.1

         19 April 2014 at 1:33 pm

         love the quote, and it sums up so much of what the current Labour party needs.

         The 3 blokes in suits who contested the leadership contest were all impressive candidates, but they didn’t really have it or have been shared to show it. If they did they’d be keen to present a united front from with the Greens with Labour leading I’d say. But you need the saxophonists in the band, the guitarists….

         Opportunity to have a life and have some love, not work for less than a life and live in a tiny house with no garden and no park nearby and no window to see the sun.
         • newsense 1.1.1.1.1

           19 April 2014 at 3:27 pm

           *scared
     • newsense 1.1.2

       19 April 2014 at 1:26 pm

       Was thinking about this- Savage gets all the press with that photo…hardly anyone would recognise Peter Fraser or Wally Nash who arguably left a much larger legacy….Though rebels and authors are always cool, I mean has MJS got a corner in Point Chev?

       Cool current Mps…hmmm…not too many rebels or authors amongst any of them…
   • Chooky 1.2

     19 April 2014 at 8:29 am

     Jacinda Adern hardly makes a blip on the public radar…Labour really must get a better person to front against Paula Bennett!!!!
     • Ron 1.2.1

       19 April 2014 at 10:20 pm

       Doing our best to supply one but really its going to depend on the list rankings. If we dont get the list correct then we deserve all we get.
   • weka 1.3

     19 April 2014 at 11:51 am

     John Clarke is still one of the coolest Kiwis ever (not just in 1972). The fact that he’s lived in Australia for the past 30 years is a reflection on NZ, not on Clarke’s coolness.
2. fambo 2

   19 April 2014 at 7:41 am

   New Zealand indirectly gets a mention when journalists Glenn Greenwald, Laura Poitras and Ewen MacAskill hold a press conference in New York earlier this week after winning a Polk Award for their reporting on Edward Snowden and the NSA.

   “GLENN GREENWALD: For me, the most significant revelation is the ambition of the United States government and its four English-speaking allies to literally eliminate privacy worldwide, which is not hyperbole. “

   http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2014/4/11/video_glenn_greenwald_laura_poitras_q
   • Colonial Viper 2.1

     19 April 2014 at 8:42 am

     Yep. NZ has been part of the Five Eyes arrangement for almost 70 years now.
3. Not a PS Staffer 3

   19 April 2014 at 7:42 am

   The Scottish Independence Referendum is on the 18th of September. The Yes Campaign of the SNP has Momentum and is closing the gap on the No team of Tories and Labour.
   Some Labour people are deserting to the Yes side. This is what Iain Macwhirter of the Herald Scotland has to say:

   “Labour allowed the SNP to become the party of the NHS, nuclear disarmament and free education, while it has become the party of the benefits cap, immigration controls and weapons of mass destruction. I sometimes have to mentally pinch myself to remember that this is actually the case. But it is. Last month, Labour MPs voted overwhelmingly for the Coalition’s arbitrary welfare cap – surely a defining moment in British politics.

   Labour introduced university tuition fees when they promised they would not; they supported the renewal of the Trident missile system; they talk enthusiastically about limiting immigration. Indeed, UK Labour politicians spend most of their time apologising for “getting it wrong” on immigration. About the only party that has a good word to say about migrants – or the European Union – is the Scottish National Party, which, as anyone who has any knowledge of nationalist parties in the rest of Europe knows, is remarkable.”
4. chris73 4

   19 April 2014 at 7:44 am

   I know I’m banned but this is more important…where the f**k is Val Adams!!! Shes not only cool (look at the confidence and attitude she has she knows shes better then everyone else and can prove it) shes also the best template I can think of for young kiwi girls (and young kiwi guys for that matter) to follow

   [lprent: 😈 ]
5. amirite 5

   19 April 2014 at 8:25 am

   If all fraud is equal, how come partners of benefit fraudsters get fined or locked up, meanwhile big time fraudsters’ partners

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9958230/Wife-gets-900k-from-mansion-sale
   • Colonial Viper 5.1

     19 April 2014 at 8:43 am

     There are separate rules for those who can afford a QC to represent them, don’t you know.
     • Rogue Trooper 5.1.1

       19 April 2014 at 9:43 am

       at around $600 an hour…
6. Pete George 6

   19 April 2014 at 8:25 am

   Some on the left are prepared to confront the issues:

   Does anyone know the whereabouts of that stalwart and courageous David Cunliffe who bore every insult that his enemies could hurl at him. The David Cunliffe who sat stoically on the back benches while his party fought for his return. The David Cunliffe who campaigned up and down the length of New Zealand for a rededication to Labour’s core values. The David Cunliffe who promised to rescue New Zealand from John Key’s “crony capitalism”. If anyone does know where he is could they please advise Moira Coatsworth and Tim Barnett immediately – he is sorely missed.

   And sorely needed. Because, if that David Cunliffe is not found – and soon – the pallid and oh-so-timid fellow currently masquerading as the leader of the Opposition is going to lose the election. Not just for Labour, the Greens and Mana, but for every other New Zealander seeking a radical change in their country’s direction.

   From That Sinking Feeling: Labour’s urgent need for persuasive words and courageous deeds.

   And before the usual, I don’t agree with everything Chris has said – for example the left could still ‘win’ the election despite Labour – but what’s quoted here is pertinent to Labour’s current predicament.

   One problem here may be that people commenting on blogs are powerless bystanders, and sad truths can be unpalatable. It could be a long tough five months.
   • mickysavage 6.1

     19 April 2014 at 8:38 am

     Pete it was one poll taken during the royal visit, Labour and the Greens went down and the right track wrong track rating went up by a similar amount to National’s increase. Wait for the next few polls and then have the discussion. Or do you think that we should cancel the election now and just let Key get on with it.

     And do you always agree with Chris or just when he backs up your world views?
     • Pete George 6.1.1

       19 April 2014 at 8:58 am

       I don’t agree with Chris when I disagree with him. What about you?

       I understand the political tradition of trying to act as if nothing is wrong. But I agree with Chirs on one thing – I think Labour has to get real and get radical. Piddly policy releases and unconvincing public performances – with too much pissiness – are not working.

       Yes, it was just one poll. Amongst a string of just one polls. Labour in Roy Morgan polls this year:

       33.5
       33
       30.5
       31.5
       32
       28.5

       Even if Labour bounces back to the low thirties that’s not flash, you must admit that. Cunliffe has as good as acknowledged that he is reliant on at least one and probably both of the next biggest parties.

       I think Cunliffe said during the week about not sweating the small stuff. I don’t see the hard yards being done on the important stuff, that’s something else I agree with Chris on.

       Cunliffe and Labour should do less things, far better. Who really cares about caravan registrations?

       A “cluster-truck” (hat-tip Te Radar) masquerading as coherent transport policy.

       Who buys the ‘buy Kiwi made” policy when most people buy Chinese because they know it’s a damn sight cheaper?

       What Cunliffe and Labour are doing isn’t working, it isn’t inspiring. Sure they are in a media rut where every little thing is nitpicking, but this situation is of their own making.

       Something significant needs to change and Labour needs to up it’s game or all it can hope for is an election Lotto where they share the prize with parties with settled leadership and much better defined aims.
       • mickysavage 6.1.1.1

         19 April 2014 at 9:01 am

         So they are in a media rut where every little thing is nitpicking but this situation is of their own making?

         Funny I would have said that this was of the media’s making.
         • Pete George 6.1.1.1.1

           19 April 2014 at 9:07 am

           Ok, Labour have allowed it to become of the media’s making.

           Blaming the media won’t solve anything, if anything it will make things worse.

           Politicians and parties have to earn credibility and positive coverage. It may be one step forward and five steps backwards but those steps forward have to be made by Labour, you can’t avoid that reality.
           • bad12 6.1.1.1.1.1

             19 April 2014 at 10:29 am

             🙄 and this 🙄 …
           • weka 6.1.1.1.1.2

             19 April 2014 at 12:01 pm

             I want MPs and leaders who are human. I doubt that there is anything wrong with Cunliffe. He’s just in an impossible situation. I don’t agree with everything he does, and in that sense I’m part of the crowd waiting for the Big Sign from Labour. But that is not all Cunliffe’s fault, it’s about the whole situation.

             The MSM think that their job is to tear people down, and if they survive then they’re be respected. I want to live in a world where leaders are supported to be the best they can. I don’t want to live in a world where the only leaders we have are those who have to survive the school of hard knocks (or have enough money or influence in the new boys network).
             • Pete George …

               19 April 2014 at 12:13 pm

               The MSM think that their job is to tear people down

               When they sense vulnerability, yes. But some MPs and parties do exactly the same, and they work with media to try and achieve it.
               • weka …

                 19 April 2014 at 12:22 pm

                 What is your point? (yes, everyone, I know I will regret asking that). You say that Cunliffe has to earn credibility and positive coverage, but you acknowledge that the MSM is fixated on tearing people down. How does that work apart from the MSM getting to dictact political culture in NZ?

                 And are you seriously arguing that because some MPs/parties are bullies that it’s ok for the MSM to be as well?

                 In an election year the job of the media is to present information about politics to the country so that people can be informed. They can analyse what is going on, and they can investigate things that are of high public interest. But that’s not what is going on now. It’s fucked, anti-democracy, and a very large part of why we’re in such a mess as a country.
                 • Pete George …

                   19 April 2014 at 12:56 pm

                   And are you seriously arguing that because some MPs/parties are bullies that it’s ok for the MSM to be as well?

                   I didn’t argue that at all. MPs/parties and media often feed off each other, reliant on each for the attention they seek. That sometimes gets to a level of frenzied bullying. I don’t argue for that at all. I argue for more honesty and decency in politics and the media.
                   • weka …

                     19 April 2014 at 1:05 pm

                     🙄
           • Grant 6.1.1.1.1.3

             19 April 2014 at 8:58 pm

             Can you please explain exactly how National and Key earned their supposed credibility ?.What brilliant policies have they brought to the table?
         • Rogue Trooper 6.1.1.1.2

           19 April 2014 at 9:53 am

           +1 and not only the MSM it would appear here…
         • Blue 6.1.1.1.3

           19 April 2014 at 12:21 pm

           The challenge for Labour and the Greens is to have a policy that makes the voter, and media, go “wow”. If that doesn’t happen for the voter particularly, it’s the policy that misses the mark. In the absence of a policy convincing enough to make the centre voter swing to the left, the results shouldn’t be a surprise. Thinking that voters are idiots because they don’t agree with you, also doesn’t change their perception of a person or a policy that fails to resonate with them. Perhaps try a policy grand enough to change people’s opinion and the MSM might report it as such. Putting “kiwi” in front of everything doesn’t seen to be working either. Time will tell I guess.
     • Te Reo Putake 6.1.2

       19 April 2014 at 8:59 am

       I think the answer, Micky, is that Trotter and Pooter are both conservative bores, who reinforce each other. The rest of us are just going to get on with winning the election. Never mind the bollocks, eh.
       • Rogue Trooper 6.1.2.1

         19 April 2014 at 9:55 am

         “…it’s a swindle! A swindle!
     • Colonial Viper 6.1.3

       19 April 2014 at 9:12 am

       MS, I have friends asking me where are Labour’s announcements about restoring the integrity and principles of our social welfare system, public health and public education systems.

       About how Labour is going to put in place game changers to sort out poverty especially child poverty in NZ once and for all.

       They want to see announcements like NZ Power which put National on the back foot and which force National to make uncomfortable excuses and compromises. And it’s not happening.

       I think that I can safely presume that you have been fielding similar.

       This is what NZers want to hear from the Labour leader, not speculations about whether or not the Royal Visit had elements of playing politics or other random Thorndon Bubble focussed commentary.

       So what do we get this week? Labour releases transport policy around “making it easier to get a family holiday on the road.” My friends in the over-stretched Dunedin social services sector were tearing their hair out at this. Families in poverty can barely get on the road in the first place, let alone go for a nice road trip around the country. Even Transport Blog slammed the policies as a distraction saying that the policy release is “absolute rubbish with it seemingly designed just to target a handful of complainers.”

       Then there was the recent Bowel Screening announcement. Bowel screening is important to be sure, but honestly NO VOTER in NZ was thinking of colon cancer as a Top Ten election issue. And none still do.

       So it looks to me like PG has a point when he says that its going to be a long 5 months ahead. Yes, we should definitely wait for the next few polls to come out and discuss them as well. But by then it will be just 4 long months ahead.
       • Colonial Viper 6.1.3.1

         19 April 2014 at 9:30 am

         And why are all our politicians still talking about achieving “economic growth” (green or otherwise)…
         • Rogue Trooper 6.1.3.1.1

           19 April 2014 at 9:58 am

           IMF and World Bank mantra. Happy Easter mate.
           • Colonial Viper 6.1.3.1.1.1

             19 April 2014 at 10:11 am

             And to you, good Trooper.
         • greywarbler 6.1.3.1.2

           19 April 2014 at 12:08 pm

           Good analysis CV. Thank goodness we have thinking people analysing present political policy offerings and attempting to vitalise and lift the low angle of the sterile political scene.
       • David H 6.1.3.2

         19 April 2014 at 10:10 am

         So you try the big issues and leave the little shite till later

         1: Social Policy what is Labour going to do about the shell shocked beneficiaries who have been used and abused for the last 6 years?

         A: probably nothing.

         2: Housing policy No one is listening.

         3: Jobs
         4: Sensible roading projects
         5: Christchurch rebuild
         6: Auckland Inner Rail Loop
         7: Housing bubble.
         8: the soaring Dollar

         Oh and I live in Levin so something about some jobs down here, but first a CREDIBLE candidate would be nice!
         • Draco T Bastard 6.1.3.2.1

           19 April 2014 at 12:09 pm

           6: Auckland Inner Rail Loop

           It’s not a loop but link. Loops in transports systems are actually really inefficient.

           Oh and I live in Levin so something about some jobs down here

           What’s in Levin that makes jobs there viable?

           What is it about jobs that people keep going on about them? We don’t need jobs, we need a viable distribution system the distributes the wealth of our economy properly.
           • Colonial Viper 6.1.3.2.1.1

             19 April 2014 at 12:58 pm

             You may not want to structure it as “jobs” but there will be no ‘wealthy economy’ without people turning up to do labour every day.
             • Draco T Bastard …

               19 April 2014 at 2:19 pm

               An ever more productive economy results in ever fewer jobs – especially labouring jobs. It won’t be long before bus drivers are redundant. That may not sound like much but there’s tens of thousands of them. Thus we need to take those people who have been made redundant and retrain them into the non-labouring sector.

               That means training them in R&D and arts and craft and getting them away from the financial sector which, as it stands, is easy work, doesn’t produce anything and is massively over-rewarded. And when I’m talking R&D I’m talking about a better mouse trap but materials science, automation, medical and biological tech, etc etc. Stuff that we’re not doing enough of now.
               • Colonial Viper …

                 19 April 2014 at 2:41 pm

                 The future you are expecting is not going to materialise, DTB. For instance, automated vehicle navigation and driving is going to remain a googlelabs curio as economic and energy decline sets in even harder.

                 As private transport becomes less affordable, the number of bus drivers we need may increase, not decrease. Labouring will become more common as fossil fuel energy use becomes increasingly expensive, and we start to lose the ability to support highly specialised and expensive disciplines.
                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   19 April 2014 at 3:36 pm

                   The future you are expecting is not going to materialise

                   Well, it won’t if we keep whinging about it being too hard. Don’t need fossil fuels to run buses or trains. Renewable electricity is great for them.

                   As private transport becomes less affordable, the number of bus drivers we need may increase, not decrease.

                   The point is that we don’t want to increase them. Having more bus drivers doesn’t do us any good. There’s much better things we can have those people doing.
                   • Populuxe1 …

                     19 April 2014 at 9:17 pm

                     “There’s much better things we can have those people doing.”
                     Maybe they actually like driving the bus
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     19 April 2014 at 9:44 pm

                     Well, I suppose we can keep a couple of old relics going for tourism.
                   • Populuxe1 …

                     19 April 2014 at 9:59 pm

                     Aside from the fact that quite a lot of our terraine isn’t suited to rail
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     20 April 2014 at 11:37 am

                     I have NFI WTF that has to do with buses.
       • millsy 6.1.3.3

         19 April 2014 at 11:11 am

         If Labour really wanted to make an impact transport wise, then it would cancel the Holiday Highway and used the money saved to restore the cuts to rural road funding, and perhaps set a bold target of sealing all the remaining metal/gravel roads in the country by 2025 (or thereabouts). It would reach deep into National’s heartland, as farmers in, say, Pipiriki would be able to get their goods to market without going though a quagmire in the winter.
         • Colonial Viper 6.1.3.3.1

           19 April 2014 at 11:44 am

           Yep. And secure the future of our heavy transport rail lines and coastal shipping!
           • Populuxe1 6.1.3.3.1.1

             19 April 2014 at 9:28 pm

             And beef up our navy to protect our coastal shipping.
             Two things keep me from voting green – the feel good vagueness of much of their policy and their total disregard for our military needs.
             • Pascal's bookie …

               19 April 2014 at 10:07 pm

               https://www.greens.org.nz/policy/defence-and-peacekeeping-armed-services-policy

               The Green Party will:
               Ensure that New Zealand has sufficient maritime surveillance capabilities, including airplanes, to properly monitor the waters around New Zealand, and to assist South Pacific island states.
               Ensure that New Zealand has sufficient capabilities for peacekeeping, search and rescue, disaster relief, fisheries and border control tasks. We should phase out any equipment that are not optimal for such tasks.
               Ensure that New Zealand has sufficient naval capacity to conduct appropriate patrols: around our coasts, into Antarctic waters, and to assist South Pacific islands states. The capacity could include some sea transport capacity, but from multi-purpose ships, not specialised transport ships. We welcome the introduction into our navy of a multi-role ship and new patrol boats as they will be useful for our border protection and South Pacific and Antarctic work. We will continue to ensure that New Zealand has adequate naval capacity for these tasks.
               
             • Ron …

               19 April 2014 at 10:44 pm

               I think a far more rewarding bold action would be to scrap the Navy altogether.
               Replace it with a Coastguard type service that is capable of patrolling all our waters from Antarctica to the Pacifica Islands. Supply them with aircraft, patrol vessels and sufficient crew trained for Rescue work. Much better use of money. We do not need a Navy

               And beef up our navy to protect our coastal shipping
             • Rogue Trooper …

               22 April 2014 at 10:06 am

               defence and peacekeeping.
         • greywarbler 6.1.3.3.2

           19 April 2014 at 12:56 pm

           Government really helping the regions, the agricultural/horticultural sector as a whole, not just dairy. What a sound idea. I wonder when someone will think of that, and when gummint will act on it?

           Someone in one of the boondock territories of rural NZ was complaining about the way that logging trucks create big problems of dust, destroying road surface, extra traffic, unpleasant industrial-type noise that is ongoing for much of the 24 hours. But there is not the money available to pave the roads, to maintain them, ie not extra from government, not in the cash-strapped local area suffering this abuse to its roads, and not from the users causing the problem, the logging companies.

           A real farmers party would show some more care for the rural sector in every way. But the NACTs have hypnotised them into thinking that they should not ask for much from the government, that they are hardworking, smart, resilient etc. and free, strong, independent people not like the townies, those effete, chair-sitters, those lazy bludgers on the government tit living off money provided by the proud hard-working achievers of the country. Then they are horribly surprised that when disaster strikes them, that social welfare is so meanly given when they are on their bare bones. And still some of them feel it is beneath them to ask for help, because of all the years they have been absorbing the propaganda about the worthlessness of people on welfare.

           The underlying attitude that is cultivated by farm leaders when comparing the agricultural sector to those in the metropolis is not far different from that shown in soviet posters with strong, proud figures with bulging muscular arms holding agricultural tools.

           Actually the smaller farmers are being allowed to go to the wall.
           Their farms are being amalgamated into giant units until they are a convenient size to make an attractive package to some rich overseas or city type swollen with money from gorging more than their share of the incomes paid out those working,
           or just plotting financial coups.

           Napier should have a good rail system for their products to feed them into the country, not just to the ports as fresh or manufactured food for the outsiders.

           Give the regions what they need FGS to do business locally and for export, and take us away from borrowing money for dairy and imports which probably helps to shove up our exchange rate. If we have a period of adjustment while we have to pay more for petrol and oil and other imported goods then so be it. Face it now, and survive virtually intact though poorer, or have it dump on us in a smothering debacle that will likely ruin us.

           The country being run down like an aged business beyond its maturity date is crap for wan..rs with MBAs who are learning how to become robber barons at some mercenary university.
           I want NZ Post for one, to keep going 5 days a week, and for government to put its post through it. NZ as a country that has to pull together in this uncivil war against the people. Is that too much to ask? Don’t reply to that, just leave the question hanging in the air and fashion a society that means a positive answer.

           We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

           attr. to Benjamin Franklin 1776, but Dryden said similar first in 1717
       • amirite 6.1.3.4

         19 April 2014 at 11:46 am

         +1000 CV
       • mickysavage 6.1.3.5

         19 April 2014 at 1:18 pm

         What about the manufacturing announcement CV? It feels like Labour is being criticised for not releasing policy, releasing minor policy and releasing major policy all at the same time!
         • Draco T Bastard 6.1.3.5.1

           19 April 2014 at 2:22 pm

           What manufacturing announcement? They keep saying that they’re going to upgrade the economy and manufacturing but all I keep seeing from them is more tax breaks and government subsidies to the private sector.
         • blue leopard 6.1.3.5.2

           19 April 2014 at 2:26 pm

           Why did they release that minor policy/comment re transport just prior to releasing the gruntier policy on manufacturing?

           It appears that the minor policy grabbed the attention and diverted attention away from the more fundamental and substantial manufacturing policy. 🙁
         • cricklewood 6.1.3.5.3

           19 April 2014 at 7:41 pm

           Therein lies the problem on one day a mirth inducing “cluster truck” follow by a serious manufacturing policy immediately lost in the mirth of the previous policy.
           It seems to me strategy wise nothing has changed since the last election. Doesn’t matter who the leader is or the ‘media bias’ if whoever is deciding on strategy is serving up lemons no amount of good intention will work. It quickly descending to farce. If you look left or right in terms of the greens or the nats strategy wise they are miles ahead….
           • blue leopard 6.1.3.5.3.1

             19 April 2014 at 9:27 pm

             @ Cricklewood,

             Sadly, this is the opinion I am starting to form too
   • Not a PS Staffer 6.2

     19 April 2014 at 8:58 am

     Peter Dunne is a moral void. He has the power to ban the so called legal highs yet he does not.
     He sees no conflict in the fact that he son’s income is derived from the sale of theses drugs that is bringing havoc to families.
     Peter Dunne had the power to say that the government would not deal with Dunne Junior.
     I bet Peter Dunne gets very very nice birthday presents from his very well paid son.
     • Pete George 6.2.1

       19 April 2014 at 9:04 am

       Penny Hulse has some sensible things to say about synthetics and natural cannabis.

       Legal high and cannabis regulation

       The discussion now needs to move to an alternative solution. Challenging as it is the wider community, medical fraternity, law makers and decision makers need to collaborate on the way forward. It is easy to simply view the “legalise dope” as the same old debate we have heard for the last 50 years accompanied by public smoke ups, dreadlocks and all the cliches. We have a different set of issues to address now and we need to put some intellectual grunt into the solutions. Legal highs have simply brought this debate to a head (pun intended).

       I have been working on a series of practical pieces of work in the short term that may pave the way for a more regulated approach to the sale of legal highs which may make the future discussion on legal sale of marijuana more acceptable.

       We cannot pretend that we can solve the issues by pushing them underground, the alternative is challenging but I think we are ready for the debate. The need to escape our day to day life via a variety of chemical substances is as old as humanity, lets get over the prejudice and on with finding a humane way forward.

       I think this is the direction we need to be looking in. There’s a growing realisation that the Psychoactive Substances Act only addresses a part of the problem.

       The cannabis elephant in the room needs to be confronted.
       • One Anonymous Bloke 6.2.1.1

         19 April 2014 at 9:20 am

         🙄

         The way forward is the direction we need to look in. We must have the discussion in the future. Astonishingly insightful. No wonder you agree with it so equivocally.
         • Draco T Bastard 6.2.1.1.1

           19 April 2014 at 10:34 am

           +1111
           • bad12 6.2.1.1.1.1

             19 April 2014 at 10:48 am

             i would likely to add this, 🙄 …
       • Not a PS Staffer 6.2.1.2

         19 April 2014 at 1:07 pm

         To smoke or not to smoke is not the question.

         Dunne has deeply damaged the credibility of the office of a minister.

         All around the country kids are hearing that the Toxic Shot is legal and that it will not be banned by the minister, whose son is making a living out of selling the Toxic shit.

         No wonder so many do not vote when they see such self serving bullshit.

         Dear Standardistas. Do not engage with Peter George on the decriminalization of Cannabis. etc. It is a smoke screen for his hero Peter Dunne and his drug industry son, James.
         • Pete George 6.2.1.2.1

           19 April 2014 at 2:31 pm

           That is blatantly untrue. Ignorance or malicious?

           Drugs not demonstrably safe will be banned – or we’ve been had by the whole of Parliament.

           And legal highs have been available for years.
           • One Anonymous Bloke 6.2.1.2.1.1

             19 April 2014 at 2:56 pm

             🙄
     • Naki Man 6.2.2

       19 April 2014 at 11:23 am

       “Peter Dunne is a moral void. He has the power to ban the so called legal highs yet he does not.
       He sees no conflict in the fact that he son’s income is derived from the sale of theses drugs that is bringing havoc to families.
       Peter Dunne had the power to say that the government would not deal with Dunne Junior.
       I bet Peter Dunne gets very very nice birthday presents from his very well paid son”

       Bollocks, Peter Dunne’s new law gives councils the power to put these shops out of business.
       If Hamilton can use the new law to close down the puff shops then other lazy councils need to
       get off their arse and start to earn their salary.

       http://www.legalhighs.co.nz/synthetic-cannabis/six-hamilton-legal-highs-stores-closed/2014

       Dunne junior is an adult and there is no conflict in the fact that he like a lot of lawyer’s make a living from defending scum. What a feeble attempt of a smear
       • mickysavage 6.2.2.1

         19 April 2014 at 11:44 am

         Um the law allows Councils to regulate not ban naki.
         • Naki Man 6.2.2.1.1

           19 April 2014 at 10:25 pm

           “Um the law allows Councils to regulate not ban”
           The link says they have been banned, the point is they have been shutdown and they cant sell drugs. You can call it what ever you like
     • Paul 6.2.3

       19 April 2014 at 7:14 pm

       PD and PG are the useful idiots the corporate elite need to run the world.
       Sad really.
   • phillip ure 6.3

     19 April 2014 at 12:36 pm

     (this was my response to trotters’ piece..)

     i welcome the separation of the greens from labour..

     ..labour can go and harvest those soft national votes..

     ..and the greens can get back to their knitting..

     ..(as long as they haven’t lost their balls..of wool..)

     ..i was finding that whole waltz-down-the-aisle-together/no-bottom-lines/lead-me-to-my-bmw!- routine..

     ..both alarming and tacky..

     ..and if the greens again find their balls..of wool..

     ..maybe they will also find some of those lost bottom-lines..?

     ..we live in hope..

     ..the total of that union was not greater than the sum of its’ parts..

     ..it was just pallid..and pallider..(you pick which was which..)

     ..whereas the opposite applies to mana/internet party..

     ..the total there is definitely greater than the sum of its’ parts..

     ..so the same reasons apply for the mana/internet coming together..

     ..and the labour party/green cleaving apart..

     ..funny that..!

     (and we did a cartoon about that mana/internet sum total..)

     http://whoar.co.nz/2014/original-whoar-cartoon-why-the-mana-party-and-the-internet-party-should-coalesce/
   • newsense 6.4

     19 April 2014 at 1:39 pm

     There’s been this bizarre disconnect between Pete George with his hat on as politicheck, for which I have been occasionally been impressed with some of the work, as I didn’t think he was capable of it.

     Why? There’s Pete George the thread hijacker, line spinner and right wing blog personality, and in this case concern troll.

     Not looking at the polls and looking at Cunliffe’s performances on camera as well as the co ordination of the party’s work and the appointments that have been made, the news has been all positive for Labour. If you are behind in a game and you rearrange your line up and make some subs, you don’t look at the score on the board now. You say ‘are we doing the basics right’ and ‘can we get some momentum going’. The answer to both of these is yes.
     • anker 6.4.1

       19 April 2014 at 7:26 pm

       +10000
   • Stephanie Rodgers 6.5

     19 April 2014 at 8:39 pm

     “Some on the left are prepared to confront the issues”

     Passive-aggressive much?
   • Murray Olsen 6.6

     20 April 2014 at 1:11 am

     A cursory checking of the facts would tell you that Trotter is only on the left on the 2nd Tuesday of each month. This post was written on a Friday, when he is known to support the National Party.
7. Plan B 7

   19 April 2014 at 9:18 am

   In the Herald today

   But on Thursday evening, she said she had checked her notes and believed she had spoken to the ambassador about the dinner the following day and told him “nothing had occurred that was untoward and it was just a very private friendly dinner that was short”.

   Why would she specifically say to the Ambassador that “nothing had occurred that was untoward” That has to be one of the strangest revelations so far. Why was she compelled to use those words. This is someone who knew at the time was skating on thin ice, had probably be warned by the Ambassador.
   • Red Rosa 7.1

     19 April 2014 at 10:47 am

     +1. Further Collins dissection required. The gift that goes on giving.

     Good to see some penetrating questions in the House finally having an impact.

     Originally, was this ‘private dinner’ not ‘maybe a cup of tea on the way to the airport’?

     And is Collins’ husband really using her ministerial car as a commuter vehicle?

     When he is apparently a well paid Oravida director/executive/owner…well Ms C, what is he exactly?

     Oravida has other investments in NZ apart from fresh milk processing. These should be given wider airplay.

     And let us hear again, how the PM’s photo appeared on an Oravida product wrapper? After all, he doesn’t need the money…

     And precisely what role does Goodfellow play in all this? Bagman?

     There is a nasty smell of corruption here, wafting right to the top.
     • Red Rosa 7.1.1

       19 April 2014 at 11:11 am

       The latest is this, which bears careful reading

       http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11240644

       If Collins was trying to boost her husband’s company into a ‘preferred supplier’ or even ‘quasi-monopoly supplier’ to the massive China market, then this is dynamite.

       We are getting into the good old ‘secret commissions’ area…and that is criminal.

       Would be good to see this followed up.

       And the PM as shill for Oravida….an interesting footnote which should not be neglected.
   • Foreign Waka 7.2

     19 April 2014 at 9:48 pm

     And why would she keep notes from a harmless dinner?
8. Clemgeopin 8

   19 April 2014 at 9:24 am

   Yes, it was a disappointing and depressing poll prompting a sinking feeling, but I would like to see the next 4 polls (from Colmar Brunton, TV3 Reid, Herald Digi and Fairfax Ipsos) to see if this poll is consistent or not.
   • bad12 8.1

     19 April 2014 at 9:58 am

     Exactly, you were supposed to feel disappointed and depressed by such polls, and the others to come from the TV channels and the print media, that’s why they publish these things,

     Physical Action results in the endorphins in the body being stirred, stirring the bodies endorphins promotes psychological well being leading to a lack of disappointment and depression,

     Contact the political party of your choice and ask them to be included on their list of pamphlet deliverers in your electorate,

     Put aside an hour a day/night to pamphlet drop your electorate street by street…
     • Rogue Trooper 8.1.1

       19 April 2014 at 10:06 am

       and todays Gardening Tip
       • bad12 8.1.1.1

         19 April 2014 at 10:22 am

         i am surprised by all the Doom and Gloom, does everyone forget their lessons of history that easily,

         Cast your minds back to 2011, the election with Phill Goff as Labour leader, now how many here actually supported poor old Phill, you could just about count such supporters on one finger,

         The mantra from the right leading into the 2011 election,”National can Govern alone”),there is certainly no ”original thought” apparent this time round with the same old same old being promoted by the usual suspects,

         Take out the 3 Maori Party MP’s this time round and i would suggest that it is going to be that close a contest,

         Save the Doom and Gloom for after the vote if we don’t get at least a slightly left leaning Government…
     • Clemgeopin 8.1.2

       19 April 2014 at 10:44 am

       Yes, bad 12, I get that and I do that, but I also had the general public in mind when I made the comment. My gut feeling tells me that the polls will shift towards the left block, but today’s interview by Turei on the Nation regarding the Green’s cabinet deputy PM ambitions/expectations, even before the voters have shown their hand, was a shocker.
       Seem to me like she was carrying a blunt spade to naively dig the Left grave with her at that answer.
       • bad12 8.1.2.1

         19 April 2014 at 11:03 am

         Didn’t see ‘the Nation’ this morning, you will perhaps like to explain further why you see Metiria as ‘digging the left’s grave’,

         That from where i sit sounds like a very interesting comment,(at Labour),from Met’s, did it come across as a ”if the Green Party is not included in Labour’s thinking as being a large part of the next Government, Forget It!!!),

         If the comment from Metiria was in fact in that vein, then, i would say ”nice one”, what point a Labour ”lead” Government including NZFirst in a cozy ”business as usual” combination which has the Green Party shut out,???,

         That to me we have already had from the Clark Government, the best i can say about that from the position i got to view it is ”it wasn’t National”,

         If Labour attempt this time round to ”shut out” the Greens i would suggest that along with Mana they take to the cross benches and ”extract” gains by horse trading on every piece of Legislation which would simply mean that Labour/NZFirst would have to enact a piece of Green/Mana Legislation for every one allowed by the bloc further to the left…
         • Clemgeopin 8.1.2.1.1

           19 April 2014 at 11:37 am

           http://www.3news.co.nz/Greens-aim-for-co-deputy-PM-role/tabid/1607/articleID/340726/Default.aspx

           See what you think.
           In politics, politicians have to be thoughtful on what one says in public. Some things are for private discussion. Big mouths can cause indigestion and give a sick feeling. Dumb.
           • bad12 8.1.2.1.1.1

             19 April 2014 at 11:58 am

             Lolz, you are making a mountain out of a molehill, on the current numbers Labour have to negotiate NZFirst into a coalition which will also necessitate the Green Party being involved,

             Your whole spew of abuse this morning contends not only that the Green Party should shut up and confine itself to a script set by Labour/NZFirst, it also gives the impression (unwritten of course), that you consider that the Green Party should just hand over support to ANY coalition that Labour negotiate including being outside of a minority Government of Labour/NZFirst,

             The Green Party is free to give its supporters and potential voters an indication NOW of what it expects from a Labour/NZFirst coalition as far as Ministerial positions goes despite all Your mumbo jumbo trotting out of the Labour/NZFirst lines,

             i would urge both Russell and Metiria to spell it out loudly and publicly what the Green Party and it’s Members expect from a Labour/NZFirst Government in both Ministerial positions and Policy gains for the Green Party should they agree to support a Labour/NZFirst Government,

             Your comments this morning simply firm up my belief that this time round if Labour propose a Labour/NZFirst Government without a strong Green presence in MInisterial roles that the Greeen Party would better itself and its supporters by taking to the cross benches along with Mana and horse trading Policy gains Legislation by Legislation,

             This i would suggest will provoke Labour/NZFirst into seeking National/ACT support in pushing through its Legislative progam thus showing you all the true colors of the relevant parties…
         • Clemgeopin 8.1.2.1.2

           19 April 2014 at 12:06 pm

           Labour will not shut out the Greens. Greens will be a large part of the next Labour led government, with cabinet posts. Cunliffe has already made that VERY clear just recently. Don’t understand why the Greens are spreading so much misinformation and unnecessary discord.
         • Clemgeopin 8.1.2.1.3

           19 April 2014 at 12:16 pm

           I do not agree with you at all. You are imagining things I did not say or imply re shutting Greens out etc. That Greens will be or may be shut out by Labour won’t happen nor is desirable. By making silly stance now about getting TWO deputy pm posts, aren’t these Greens trying to hamstring Labour already prior to the election and prior to the coalition discussions and agreements? In my mind, that is an arrogant, stupid, naive, cunning and crap attitude to take, besides planting discord among Labour and scaring away potential left supporters.

           I am annoyed at the Greens now and I am calling it as I see it.
       • phillip ure 8.1.2.2

         19 April 2014 at 11:14 am

         @ clem..re turei/deputy prime minister claim..

         ..i agree..

         ..who the hell is advising them on strategy..?

         ..both norman and tureu are coming across as having their eyes on ministerial-baubles..

         ..and little else..

         ..and i know we shouldn’t focus on the trivialities like clothing/choice of dress..

         ..but that white power-jacket turei sported for me just emphasised the apparent distance of the greens from their constituencies/who put them there..

         ..turei looked more at home in a russian doll set..along with the likes of collins/bennett..

         ..the greens..in their long/wholesale efforts not to offend..

         ..seem to have walked away from much of their traditional/long-term support..

         ..those wanting to end the blight of poverty..now have to look to mana..

         ..the pot-vote has to look to the internet party (?)..

         ..and those there for ‘green’/environmental-reasons will be in denial –

         if not dismayed by normans’ recent ennunciations of ‘no bottom lines’..

         ..on pretty much everything..

         ..i’m sorry..but looking from out here..

         ..the greens seem lost/blinded by personal-ambitions/baubles..

         ..and tureis’ claim/assumptions on the deputy prime minister role..

         ..only reinforces that image..

         ..bottom-line:..the greens need to sack their current team of strategists/advisers..

         ..they are leading them towards irrelevancy..

         ..(or..this is just being driven by the elites/leadership/small group that runs the party..

         ..and if that is the case..they are digging their own graves of irrelevancy..)

         ..ourt here in the real world of poverty/prohibition..and the like..

         ..who gives a flying fuck who is ‘deputy-prime-minister’..?

         ..the green party/leadership..really need to get a fucken grip..

         ..they are/seem lost..somewhere on the road to that garage housing the ministerial-bmw’s..
   • David H 8.2

     19 April 2014 at 10:14 am

     Those 4 you mention are all Right leaning polls Mainly ring Landlines only and have a strict list of leading questions. The best of the lot is Morgans poll
     • bad12 8.2.1

       19 April 2014 at 10:26 am

       Even Morgan is suspect with the son of Roy being deeply involved in mining,(not that i would propose that this would deliberately skew a Morgan poll against the Greens, snigger)…
   • David H 8.3

     19 April 2014 at 10:14 am

     Those 4 you mention are all Right leaning polls Mainly ring Landlines only and have a strict list of leading questions. The best of the lot is Morgans poll
     • Blue 8.3.1

       19 April 2014 at 4:20 pm

       I agree RM is the best. National on 48%, Labour imploding. Is it still your favourite?
9. phillip ure 9

   19 April 2014 at 10:29 am

   there was an outbreak of reefer-madness yesterday..in the gen-debate thread..

   ..this unpacks the trigger/cause of that ‘reefer-madness’..

   http://www.alternet.org/drugs/why-medias-fearmongering-marijuana-effects-brain-faulty

   “..A neuroimaging study of the brains of marijuana smokers caused unwarranted frenzy..”
   • phillip ure 9.1

     19 April 2014 at 10:54 am

     and of course..this is one of the main reasons the mana/any(?) party should swing in behind a decriminalise/regulate/tax policy on pot..

     ….all reasons that are obvious..

     http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/18/weed-legalization_n_5169750.html

     “..Ultimately, though, it will be a net public health “win” –

     if rising pot consumption deters heavy drinking –
     which does much more societal and personal damage..”

     ..and as per the mana party/pot-policy..my understanding is the party membership/younger members esp. –

     • are loud in their support of the ending of cannabis prohibition..

     ..and it is the older members in power in the party..

     ..who are blocking that popular will amongst the party members..

     ..(and the general public..if that campbell live poll showing 84% support for the ending of cannabis prohibition is to be given any credence..)
     • bad12 9.1.1

       19 April 2014 at 11:08 am

       Phill you could start a legalize pot party, oh wait there is already one in operation, now how many votes have they achieved in total in how many elections again…
       • Chooky 9.1.1.1

         19 April 2014 at 3:05 pm

         Good to see you back from the naughty corner Philip Ure! ……( and bad12 missed you too….he hasnt been the same without you…but i suggest you two play at the opposite ends of the sandpit for a while)

         @ Bad12…..well legalise pot makes a lot of sense!….and criminalise the synthetic stuff…everyone around the country hates what the synthetic stuff is doing to young people….except Peter Dunne and son …and NACT of course….their entrepreneurs are probably selling it.
         • bad12 9.1.1.1.1

           19 April 2014 at 5:15 pm

           Yup, the sort of thing a 3rd term Government would do, legalize marijuana that is, oh except for the small fact that Labour have no intention of going anywhere near legalization,

           So while Phill can gnash what’s left of His teeth down to the gums, a 10–15% Green Party are unlikely to convince Labour to move on the issue,and, on the present numbers NZFirst as well…
           • Chooky 9.1.1.1.1.1

             19 April 2014 at 8:18 pm

             The Christchurch Press and all the local newspapers are full of horror stories about synthetic cannabis./party drugs …makes the real stuff seem positively harmless ( even some local police think so)

             ….this could be an Election Issue with not a few votes ….such is the anguish of parents whose kids are hooked and the kids themselves… with very bad side effects according to A@E doctors…..at very least Labour/Greens /Mana/NZF should overturn legalising the synthetic stuff and seriously consider make the real stuff legal

             …Seems like NACT and Peter Dunne have gone mad
             • phillip ure …

               19 April 2014 at 8:44 pm

               @ chooky..

               ..and a lot of people..are making a lot of money..

               ..off of this crap..

               ..they are as bad as the tobacco/alcohol-pushers..
               • Chooky …

                 19 April 2014 at 11:35 pm

                 agreed they are making a lot of money!!! ….and they are despicable!!!!…this one could turn around and savagely maul NACT and Peter Dunne

                 …there are quite a few votes in this for making the synthetic stuff illegal and legalising the old ‘tried and true real stuff’ to those 18 and over…the precedent has been set in USA and other countries
10. fender 10

    19 April 2014 at 11:03 am

    On Stuff

    “New Zealand’s economic boom is about to pop with dramatic results, the US business magazine Forbes reports today.”

    The Forbes article
    • bad12 10.1

      19 April 2014 at 11:14 am

      IF, the dairy auctions keep bringing in the rate of decline in prices paid on the current trend ”things” aint going to be pretty in a year or two,

      We all know what occurs when the Western World’s economies go belly up, the field of battle is currently being defined by talks in Europe…
    • left for dead 10.2

      19 April 2014 at 8:24 pm

      Ta,very interesting.That should make more than a few think.[why aren’t they]Makes you wonder why you would wont to govern.
    • Foreign Waka 10.3

      19 April 2014 at 9:59 pm

      Yes, I saw that too. I wonder why we still have guaranties for banks if they are doing so nicely? Besides, the rebuild in Christchurch does skewer the figures and the US financial wizkids do as usually have no clue but want to brush everybody with the same stroke.
      Whilst the time frame of the rebuild in CCH is scandalous to keep it civilized, it is no New Orleans where people have to donate and beg to have a roof over their heads and meanwhile the Freddie’s jump out of the hat. As for the foreign investors in NZ, yes absolutely it needs to be curtailed as land is not something anyone can “produce”.
11. Clemgeopin 11

    19 April 2014 at 11:19 am

    Greens are Labour’s hindering albatross.

    I can’t believe that the Green leaders are so arrogant, so politically naive and frankly a little stupid going by their previous Labour-Green pre election coalition stunt designed to help themselves and harm Labour and now this interview comment by Turei on the Nation today regarding her ambition on the deputy PM position in a Labour led coalition after the election.

    She, like Norman, presumes too much even before the election, even before the voters have spoken! This is political naivity in the extreme, unbelievable arrogance and frankly stupid, in my opinion. I am afraid this sort of carry by these naive numpties may drive more people away from Labour/Greens. A very counter productive cocky stance to take.

    Any coalition deals and terms need to be discussed in private between the parties and announced after the election, not before. Simple common sense politics 101. NZF and even National must be happily rubbing their luck once again.

    With friends like Greens, who needs enemies?

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Greens-aim-for-co-deputy-PM-role/tabid/1607/articleID/340726/Default.aspx
    • weka 11.1

      19 April 2014 at 11:57 am

      It’s a message to the people who vote for the GP and who might vote for the GP. It’s not a message to people like you Clem.

      I’m not sure if you are objecting to Norman and Turei wanting to be deputy PM, or if you are objecting to them saying so before the election. Myself, I prefer transparency.
      • bad12 11.1.1

        19 April 2014 at 12:04 pm

        Seems that Clem wants the Green Party to be silenced and adhere to a script being ”run” by Labour/NZFirst,

        i would urge the Green Party to become more specific leading into this election as to exactly what Ministerial roles it expects to fill in a Labour/NZFirst Government along with pointing out Policy areas in which the Party will require a ”strong” say,

        Other than that i would urge the Green Party leadership to begin devising a strategy of ”negotiating” from the cross benches…
        • Clemgeopin 11.1.1.1

          19 April 2014 at 12:29 pm

          You are ascribing various views implying they are mine! You are wrong. Greens can say what they want and show the public how stupid and arrogant the Greens are. What I am saying is that in my view, politically, they are being smug, silly, arrogant and stupid, damaging the left cause overall.
          • blue leopard 11.1.1.1.1

            19 April 2014 at 2:16 pm

            @ Clemogeopin,
            It would be really good if you could take bad12 (or weka’s) comments as highlighting that what you are saying may be implying certain things that you don’t intend – rather than take the comments too personally.

            I am interested in what you are saying and what weka and bad12’s (and others on previous threads) have responded. And also, if you take their responses seriously, how you would respond back to the points they make.

            I think there is some real relevance to what you are saying – even if it is a ‘perception thing’ i.e. that the ‘Greens are radical’ seems to be a false idea that has been conjured up and seeded by the right with the aim of dividing and conquering – yet the discussion still needs to be had by the left because this propaganda technique appears to be taking hold of some people’s views and having done so, the discussion is very worthy because to work through it in a level-headed manner could assist in undermining the effects of the propaganda.

            Hope that makes sense
            • Clemgeopin 11.1.1.1.1.1

              19 April 2014 at 5:52 pm

              I sort of get what you are saying, but taking public stance on expected potential baubles etc is not being level headed of Greens and is counter productive to the left block in my view and that annoys me and probably does to a lot of other potential left inclined voters. I don’t want this kind of tactics to result in us snatching a stupid defeat. Watch for the right wing parties and the media use this premature pre-election comment to pound Labour and Greens even further now.

              It is one thing to talk about party policies to gather more votes, but quite another to go bauble hunting before the election.

              Cheers for your post. Have a nice Easter.
              • blue leopard …

                19 April 2014 at 9:25 pm

                lol I think perhaps I didn’t make a very clear point…possibly not entirely clear on it , I will have to think some more on that one.

                I keep forgetting it is Easter, I wish you a good Easter too, cheers!
      • Clemgeopin 11.1.2

        19 April 2014 at 12:39 pm

        How will Norman, Turei, you and the green supporters feel if Cunliffe may not be be able to offer the plum deputy PM posts to the these two ambitious naive/cunning nitwits?
        • greywarbler 11.1.2.1

          19 April 2014 at 5:34 pm

          Clem
          Russel Norman and Metiria Turei are not naive twits. I hope they are cunning or in parliament they’ll end up like bunnies facing ferrets. That may be nature but not the environment that Greens work in.

          You seem to have a thing against the Greens. Can you try to think politically (politics being the art of the possible) and not think of the election as a sporting contest where there is usually a definite winner and loser, occasionally a draw or bye. In politics a Party can win, and not just the opposition will lose, but so may the whole country. A Party can achieve one good thing and yet most people not receive one positive improvement or advantage. What then is winning? The Greens are more important and steadfast for NZ than you give them credit for.

          The actions of pollies directly affect my life and I want more understanding of the complex tasks that pollies need to do to be acknowledged. It’s not just simply aiming to get a ball in goal..
          • Clemgeopin 11.1.2.1.1

            19 April 2014 at 5:56 pm

            No, I am NOT against the Greens or their policies or them being in the government or the cabinet. I am against their stupid counter productive political stunts and statements I mentioned earlier which in my opinion harm the left aim of winning this election.
          • Populuxe1 11.1.2.1.2

            19 April 2014 at 9:42 pm

            Well it was a bit ridiculous of Turei to suggest that she could be co-Deputy Prime Minister
            • Stephanie Rodgers 11.1.2.1.2.1

              19 April 2014 at 10:55 pm

              Why? Plenty of organisations have co-vice presidents, or more than one person at the second tier. The Greens have managed to make the co-leader structure work, there’s no practical reason for it to not work just as well at the Deputy PM level.

              It would hardly be the most ridiculous Cabinet position ever invented to please a coalition partner (cough, Treasurer, cough).
              • Pascal's bookie …

                19 April 2014 at 10:58 pm

                Or Minister of Foreign Affairs but not Trade and Outside Cabinet.
      • Foreign Waka 11.1.3

        19 April 2014 at 10:01 pm

        I do like transparency too. But why do I get the feeling that those two are played and NZ1 has a role in all of this? Can’t say why but it’s like a stone in the show if you know what I mean.
    • Pete George 11.2

      19 April 2014 at 12:00 pm

      I suspect the Greens see Labour as a hindering albatross, with more justification. Which party looks the most united and best organised and prepared?

      I don’t see any problem with any party being up front about their preferences for any possible coalition deal. Shouldn’t voters know this in advance? I don’t buy the “let the voters decide” then parties do as they please approach. They have no idea what voters were thinking and wanting.
      • Draco T Bastard 11.2.1

        19 April 2014 at 12:44 pm

        I actually agree with that.
    • Naki Man 11.3

      19 April 2014 at 12:03 pm

      Turei as deputy PM this is hilarious, this is the same woman who called Fonterra and Sanitarium feeding the school kids “corporate welfare” There needs to be some sort of IQ test for this position.
      That will really scare the horses.
      • weka 11.3.1

        19 April 2014 at 12:10 pm

        How is Fonterra feeding the kids not corporate welfare?

        It’s actually worse than corporate welfare. It’s corporate welfare with propaganda attached.
        • Disraeli Gladstone 11.3.1.1

          19 April 2014 at 12:21 pm

          Corporate welfare is a defined term. It refers to things like subsidies and tax breaks that are used to entice businesses or increase profit and compare them to welfare payments. The Rio Tinto situation for instance was an act of corporate welfare.

          The idea is that governments who demonise welfare and beneficiaries often engage in corporate welfare and pick favourites and provide them with favourable tax breaks and subsidies. It’s welfare but for a much less deserving audience.

          So, Turei really was wrong to refer to Fonterra feeding the kids initiative as “corporate welfare”. However, it is largely semantics. I can think of far more important tests to see whether someone should be Deputy Prime Minister.

          I think Turei as DPM would probably do a decent job. It might make the media at least remember she’s a leader of the Green Party.
        • Foreign Waka 11.3.1.2

          19 April 2014 at 10:02 pm

          AAA+++
      • fender 11.3.2

        19 April 2014 at 12:13 pm

        If a fool like Bill English can be deputy PM then anyone can, even you Mad Naki..
        • weka 11.3.2.1

          19 April 2014 at 12:25 pm

          lolz, thanks fender.
      • phillip ure 11.3.3

        19 April 2014 at 12:20 pm

        not so much ‘corporate welfare’..

        ..as them pushing their deeply unhealthy products on new generations..

        ..getting them hooked on the health-harming sugar/fat-laden muck they peddle..
        • Populuxe1 11.3.3.1

          19 April 2014 at 9:45 pm

          Milk and Wheetbix you oaf
          • phillip ure 11.3.3.1.1

            19 April 2014 at 10:04 pm

            @ pops..

            ..yes..?..

            ..yr point..?

            ..(tho’ i withdraw the ‘sugar’..it is the cow bye-product that is the nasty in this combo..)
    • Disraeli Gladstone 11.4

      19 April 2014 at 12:13 pm

      Is that you there Bomber?

      Oh those evil Greens! With their… principles… and recognition that they are no longer a minor party.
      • Clemgeopin 11.4.1

        19 April 2014 at 1:20 pm

        Hi son! Wow! I had given up thinking we would never meet!
    • newsense 11.5

      19 April 2014 at 2:24 pm

      you’re right. It should only be the serious men with suits who are allowed to get government titles. Good to see that Turei will have to give up her playing at leader once Clem and his ilk fumble towards power.

      Turei has been a strong politician- especially with her response to the attacks on her and the invitation of the press to her ‘castle’ worth an Auckland car park to see her wardrobe.

      She provides a clear point of difference to the samey-ness across the leadership on the left- Cunliffe, Parker, Robertson, King, Jones, Adern, Cosgrove, Hipkins, Norman- she’s young, Maori, passionate and with a profile and doesn’t appear to be part of the careerist politicians who are careful to follow the party line. She seems to have a purpose about her entry to parliament and to me suggesting this kind of unorthodox arrangement that isn’t ‘common-sense’ like Peters, UF et al are…suggests why she is needed by the left.
      • Clemgeopin 11.5.1

        19 April 2014 at 2:43 pm

        Where did I say anything anything of the sort?
        Why is that you and some others here do not actually understand the actual points I made in my posts? Read it again.
      • greywarbler 11.5.2

        19 April 2014 at 4:27 pm

        It would be good if bloggers when discussing an individual pollie gave their first name. It would make them sound like respected people, rather than pawns on the political chess board.
        • phillip ure 11.5.2.1

          19 April 2014 at 10:18 pm

          but warbler..in the main..they aren’t ‘respected people’..

          ..and they are just ‘ pawns on the political chess board’..most of them..

          ..is there anything more pathetic/useless to man or beast..

          ..than an opposition backbencher..?

          ..and remember..they are ranked below used car salesmen..

          ..(or their modern equivalent..the internet bye-product peddler..)

          ..by most of us mug-punters..

          ..so a sirname is more than the ‘hey you!’ most of them deserve..

          ..i remember farrar got his knickers quite knotted when i started doing that @ kiwiblog..

          ..he had an ‘it’s not polite!’ tizzy/hissy-fit…

          ..which was dutifully ignored..
12. Penny Bright 12

    19 April 2014 at 12:52 pm

    The political hole deepens for Minister for Justice – Judith Collins …..

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11240640

    “Justice Minister Judith Collins has recovered her memory after telling Parliament she could not recall whether she had briefed New Zealand’s ambassador to Beijing about her Oravida dinner.
    …..
    In Parliament’s last session before a two-week recess, she again refused to identify the official she dined with, said she did not know of Oravida’s difficulties in the Chinese market before the dinner, and said she could not remember whether she had briefed ambassador to Beijing Carl Worker about the dinner.

    She told the Weekend Herald she didn’t believe she had spoken about the dinner to Mr Worker beyond an initial discussion beforehand when he said he would not attend.

    But on Thursday evening, she said she had checked her notes and believed she had spoken to the ambassador about the dinner the following day and told him “nothing had occurred that was untoward and it was just a very private friendly dinner that was short”.

    She said Mr Worker had asked her on the day of the dinner to just let him know if there was anything that he needed to know about.
    …….”

    DUH?

    Who ‘takes notes’ at a private dinner with friends?

    In what capacity did Minister of Justice Judith Collins speak “.. to the ambassador about the dinner the following day and told him “nothing had occurred that was untoward and it was just a very private friendly dinner that was short”.

    Did Minister of Justice Judith Collins speak to Carl Worker in his capacity as NZ Ambassador to China?

    If so – then this can NOT have been a ‘private dinner’ for which Judith Collins had no Ministerial responsibility.

    Who invited Carl Worker, (who just happens to be the NZ Ambassador to China) to this dinner?

    WHY did Carl Worker, (who just happens to be the NZ Ambassador to China) decline to attend this dinner?

    Is there some sort of parallel universe happening here – where it just so happens that these very important and influential people – are also close personal friends, so there is no clear line of demarcation between private lives and public duties?

    Is that why, in my considered opinion, Minister of Justice Judith Collins HAS CROSSED THE LINE and is indeed no longer ‘fit for duty’?

    What a DISGRACE.

    National’s Minister of Justice Judith Collins is treating both Parliament and the public with total contempt.

    But I can understand Prime Minister John Key’s reluctance to sack her from Parliament.

    Do the maths.

    National is a MINORITY government with only 59 MPs out of 121.

    Judith Collins is an electorate MP.

    (As are Peter Dunne and John Banks).

    Oh dear …… whatever could happen next to this (in my considered opinion) COALITION OF THE CORRUPT?

    No wonder while on Minister of Justice Judith Collins’ watch – New Zealand STILL has not yet ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption.

    https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/treaties/CAC/signatories.html

    I for one, doubt that she has even read it.

    Here – have a look for yourselves:

    http://www.unodc.org/documents/treaties/UNCAC/Publications/Convention/08-50026_E.pdf

    Which New Zealand political party is going to pick up the ball on this one, and announce that getting the legislative anti-corruption framework in place so that New Zealand can ratify the UN Convention Against Corruption will be a most URGENT political priority?

    Penny Bright
13. greywarbler 13

    19 April 2014 at 1:04 pm

    Are you going to put up a Friday social post? I’ve got a good poetry piece for it.
14. greywarbler 14

    19 April 2014 at 2:23 pm

    Or what about an Easter break social post? How’s everyone going out there. We have sun, lovely weather for now.
    • karol 14.1

      19 April 2014 at 5:51 pm

      Been working.
15. Mike the Savage One 15

    20 April 2014 at 12:26 am

    For all those thickoes that do not get it, where Kim Schmitz aka Dotcom comes from, get a translator and learn:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8fijqXI79I
16. Mike the Savage One 16

    20 April 2014 at 12:40 am

    More on Dotcom, exposed by Spiegel TV, on German TV, but they have little sympathy for him, as they see well through him:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm3C7Qgalxc

    He has at least been working on the borderline of legality, and he will face justice soon. You Tube are not releasing recently released movies, but Mega Upload did. He got away with heaps, but his days are numbered, just many Kiwis are as dumb as ever, as they voted a money speculator into power, they have sympathy for a law breaker. Hah, wake up, idiots.

    He cannot be deported now, as he has children here, just smartly organised, like some from other nations, who have off spring here, knowing it is the licence to welfare! Hah, bingo, here you go, TS, you love that, right?
17. xtasy 17

    20 April 2014 at 1:45 am

    Sorry, I wish I had never come back, I tried to make an end, but it did not work, so I just want to say, please fight on standardistas, I am no longer able to, I am too ill. The way things are it is terrible, we are as people on benefits told the help us but it is a lie same as the Nazis told lies.

    I am too tired and sick, I will not communicate further, take care and try to fight the horrible policies and this minister that tells us the lies she “cares”. She should be bloody ashamed of herself!

    I do not want to live in this country any more, it is not the country it once was.
    • freedom 17.1

      20 April 2014 at 9:01 am

      Concentrate on finding a way forward xtasy. I hope you find a real solution soon. You are not alone and despite what the world is trying to tell people, many out there do care about others.

      There are too many in similar positions where their health is failing as fast as the system that is meant to help them, but as the realities are too complex for the MSM to cram into a soundbite, too many are being left to battle their health problems alone.

      But don’t give up on ‘ol kiwiland just yet. I also hate what NZ has become but refuse to believe it is too far gone to recover.

      You are stronger than their lies xtasy,
      Kia kaha
18. Mike the Savage One 18

    20 April 2014 at 3:04 am

    I always thought that NZers are prone to being take for a ride, and Kim Dotcom has taken you for a fucking ride, for sure, you silly fools, and the day he goes you will finally wake up from your “addiction”, and I know what addiction means, you are hooked, the ones that fall for this conman!
    • Murray Olsen 18.1

      20 April 2014 at 4:25 pm

      Remember to take a screenshot to put in with your expenses claim.

      Now, who exactly here is addicted to Dotcom?

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