Open mike 19/05/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:45 am, May 19th, 2014 - 225 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

225 comments on “Open mike 19/05/2014”

  1. bad12 1

    Housing, the social type, have the Loonies truly taken over the asylum in this particular area of social policy,(this just couldn’t be so, we only have to look at Housing Minister Nick Smith’s actions in a previous guise when He was made deputy leader of the National Party under Doctor Dullard Don Brash to see that this man of action knows what He wants and how to get it, even if that means barking orders at all and sundry including opposition MP’s resulting in Him being removed from the position),

    Housing tho, the social type, having announced the National Governments abdication of its role in the States provision of housing for those in the most precarious positions in our society, Smith said that He wanted there to be 20% less homes owned by the State and that the private sector charities would provide for any shortfall, in last years budget 30 million dollars was passed across from the State to what Smith terms NGO’s to boost the provision of such housing,

    Result: zilch, zero, nada, not one house has been built, not one family in need housed.

    This years budget slashed the amount of funding given to these NGO’s to 10 million dollars and it was revealed on RadioNZ National this morning that Smith has a brand new plan for the NGO provision of social housing, the NGO’s can go to the banks and borrow the monies needed to build such housing, as if they would,

    Not quite ”let them eat cake” from Smith, more an invitation to the poor to go buy a $50 tent from the warehouse,(but don’t erect it where the middle class can see it and become offended as occurred recently when a mini-tent town of 4 was set up under the Welcome to Wellington sign at ‘the gap’ near Wellington airport)…

    • Ad 1.1

      Anyone know what almost the whole of the suburbs of:
      – Owairaka
      – Mt Roskill
      – Mt Wellington
      – Panmure
      – Oranga
      – Lower Hutt
      – Waikare
      and now Hobsonville
      have in common?

      • Once was Tim 1.1.1

        Could it be the demolition of state houses? …. or vacant state houses awaiting demolition/removal?

        just a guess

        • Ad 1.1.1.1

          They were all suburbs built by a state with the will to transform whole cities.

          In doing so they raised the standard for quality house quality and housing ownership and security for five decades.

          • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1.1

            Sometimes a state willing to build entire towns from nothing – check out Clyde for instance.

          • bad12 1.1.1.1.2

            Yep, you could add dozens if not hundreds more suburbs to that list as well Ad,(i just listened to Labour Housing spokesperson Phill Twyford on RadioNZ extolling the virtue of 3–400 thousand dollar housing as the solution to affordable housing, IF He ”gets it” He is obviously keeping ”it” a big secret),

            Seems to me ‘the song remains the same’, pamper the middle class and ignore the poor…

            • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1.2.1

              Seems to me ‘the song remains the same’, pamper the middle class and ignore the poor…

              That’s not the song as it’s actually about keeping our economy privatised so that the rich get richer while mouthing platitudes about the poor.

            • Ad 1.1.1.1.2.2

              Twyford gets it.
              Labour’s still got significant policy to go.

        • Chooky 1.1.1.2

          @ Once was Tim…State houses were built with very high quality wood and joinery and solidly built and many were located in very desirable areas mixed in with other housing ( NZs former egalitarian society)….so what does demolition or removal tell you?!

          …..it tells you that John Key /NACT and mates want to capitalise on the valuable land underneath the State House in the desirable area and rebuild ….too bad about the State tenants!

          • bad12 1.1.1.2.1

            Yep chooky, i too live in one here in Wellington, 70 years+ of age my mansion is still trucking along doing what the builders intended it to do,(the lack of maintenance tho is making her look a bit sad around the edges),

            Most of the States stock here in Wellington was built as whole of suburb State housing and it wasn’t until (a), tenants were allowed to purchase them under Labour, and (b), National later started flicking them off to their rentier mates for a song that the mix was totally altered,

            My little street of all State houses originally, has suffered from such sell offs, there is left two disparate sets of inhabitants neither of whom have any like for each other,(the destruction of community)…

          • Once was Tim 1.1.1.2.2

            Indeed! My ex wife has an ex-State house in what is now a desirable part of Wellington’s eastern suburbss. Incredibly well-built and solid. It’s had insulation, some bits and pieces added on (such as a deck) to remove that ‘tickytacky box’ look people used to moan about – and is now worth a bundle apparently.
            It’s appalling to see the same such housing in the Hutt Valley all boarded up, empty & ready for demolition when a bit of creativity, landscaping, etc. at relatively minimal expense could be applied to bring about a similar result.
            Basically Natzi ideology at work yet again. Vandalism!
            I’d prefer to see a bit of care and attention applied to all those Hutt Valley state houses in a similar vein to my ex’s place, and allow us to resurrect a decent social housing programme again. Interesting too that this sort of housing was developed usually with a Community Hall and other amenities nearby (including railway stations, or bus routes with a regular timetable).
            They don’t have to be ghettos – one of the demonising labels the Natzis often apply (where that is the case – why aren’t they placing the blame squarely where it belongs – i.e. bad management on the part of Housing Corp – or whatever they call themselves these days).

      • Tracey 1.1.2

        john key visits none of them? r

    • Chooky 1.2

      Housing should be a BIG election issue!…i have a friend in a state house …he is a qualified architect but due to poor health on an invalids benefit…he is under a lot of stress thinking his state house will be sold out from under him( he can not afford to buy it!)….he does a lot of community work for free but cant get a fulltime job ( like many other New Zealanders , because the jobs are NOT there!)

      John Key and NACT are preparing to sell State houses all over New Zealand paid for by previous generations of compassionate NZers who wanted to live in an egalitarian compassionate society…it is theft by the wealthy John Key/NACT for their mates …it is sociopathic and crime against those least fortunate and must be recognised and broadcast as such….a BIG ELECTION issue!!! Keeping existing housing stock for New Zealanders

    • Tracey 1.3

      at a time when interest rates are climbing for punters but govt can borrow at much lower rates…

      • Draco T Bastard 1.3.1

        Government doesn’t need to borrow as it can create money and that money will have no interest on it.

  2. wyndham 2

    On Morning report today, John Key maintaining that NZ having the highest house prices in the OECD is due to the robust recovery of the NZ economy !!
    Really?

    • the tvone interviewer didn’t even ask that question..

      ..she just sat key down..pushed his ‘go!’-button..

      ..and smiled and nodded along..

      ..as he laid yards/metres of unremitting/unrelenting-bullshit..

      ..i guess the interviewer..if she even knew..probably didn’t think that was very important..

      ..that we have the most unaffordable houses in the oecd..

      ..that they are 70% over-priced..(seventy-fucken-percent..?..whoar..!..)

      ..and how can this not be utter madness/a bubble..?

      ..average wages thirty-something-thousand..

      ..and clapboard dumps sell for a half a million dollars..?

      ..when that bubble bursts..it’s gonna get ugly…

    • greywarbler 2.2

      Great from Jokeyhen this morning. House prices high, good – criticism bad. Binary Key as usual.

      bad 12 comment on Nick Smith is on the mark –

      Smith said that He wanted there to be 20% less homes owned by the State and that the private sector charities would provide for any shortfall, in last years budget 30 million dollars was passed across from the State to what Smith terms NGO’s to boost the provision of such housing,

      Indicates to me that this is another example of government by target – ordering this or that to be done whether impractical, impossible, or actually destructive.

      Dictionary.com has the word ‘fiat’ an arbitrary decree or pronouncement, especially by a person or group of persons having absolute authority to enforce it: The king ruled by fiat.

      We are getting away from a true democracy, as we thought we knew it. Dictatorship by the Robber Barons eating democracy and its public goods, leaving us the fish bones to boil for our soup.

    • Tracey 2.3

      so that means key used to have orgasms when labourcwas in govt… high house prices and multiple surpluses

      • greywarbler 2.3.1

        No it was just p…s envy then. The orgasmatic condition came when he got to power. The prancing pony became the ringmaster along with the adrenalin rush of having the whiphand.

        • Tracey 2.3.1.1

          s and m?

          • greywarbler 2.3.1.1.1

            One wonders one does whether there is s & m propernsity in a large number of us as we keep voting for parties that produce hurtful outcomes, while at the same time we revile s.59 for children. Perhaps we don’t want better conditions for the country, perhaps we so like inequality because it makes life more interesting as someone earlier said. How can this attitude still be trotted out? It must be some sort of pathological mental condition. FFS

            • Colonial Viper 2.3.1.1.1.1

              The lesson that NZers learnt in the 1930’s and 1940’s is that Government and political parties can be a major help to the nation and its peoples.

              What it forgot was the lesson of the 1910’s and 1920’s that Government will not provide that major help unless it is forced to by a mass movement of the people.

  3. Draco T Bastard 3

    New York calls for ban on face scrub microbeads

    The beads go on to act as “sponges for toxic chemical pollutants” and are mistaken for food by aquatic organisms. This means that the pollutants can enter the food chain and contaminate fish that humans eat, as well as birds, turtles and mammals.

    Ah, mankind – finding so many new and innovative ways to pollute the environment.

    /sarc

  4. bad12 4

    Statins, the silver bullet drug for heart disease are again in the news with an international study highlighting the dangers of liver disease due to high use of statin dosage and an Otago Uni study with a counter view saying the number of those effected is far lower than the lives said to be saved by the use of statins,

    Having been prescribed this drug i complied with ‘Doctors orders’ until (a) i had researched and taken up a diet containing as close to zero ‘bad fats’ as possible without resorting to mung beans and lentils as the sole dietary intake, and (b), researched statin drugs as far as i could on the internet,

    Having also been prescribed drugs for diabetes at the same time i found i was forced by the revelations of that research to make a decision to ditch one or the other, the statins or the diabetes meds,

    Here’s why, to achieve correct levels of sugars in the blood requires the presence of magnesium in the blood, the liver controls the levels of magnesium that are sent into the body with any excess excreted by that liver, Statins as a drug are in the category of a ‘blocker’ along with ‘blocking’ bad fats from entering and being deposited in the arteries Statins also ‘block’ certain vitamins and minerals including vitamin B12 and magnesium,(some of these ‘blocked’ fats, vitamins, and minerals cannot be excreted by the liver which is where the liver disease from Statin use comes from),

    So, if you have high cholesterol levels AND high blood sugar levels for which you are being prescribed drugs ie: statins it is a recipe for your blood sugar levels to stay high,(or worse spike them up to the point of being diagnosed as diabetic),

    My next blood test, had my Doctor having an eye popping moment as She looked at them,(and probably singing in Her mind the praises of Statins), as the no bad fats diet i formulated pulled my cholesterol level firmly below the danger line, and i did not tell Her i had tossed the Statins 8 weeks earlier…

    • basically..go vegan..

      ..shed yr statins..shed yr diabetes..

      • bad12 4.1.1

        Not quite Phillip, the blood sugar in the latest test was still slightly high despite a huge cut in sugar intake,(the problem being there as my intake of fruits has climbed by x10 while i cut the use of actual sugar and such tests cannot differentiate how the sugars get there),

        Don’t ever see myself ”going vegan”, there is a logical reason as well as my meat eaters upbringing which pushes me in the direction of judging good fats/bad fats,

        There are a number of minerals and vitamins that our bodies need that are only soluble and transportable around the body via fats, good or bad fats will do the work so we need some fats in our diets and i don’t think i could devour enough nuts/avocados to provide enough good fat so fish is on the menu along with the odd bout of yummy bacon and egg burger and when i smell fresh bread in the supermarket, shaved beef,(97% fat free lolz)…

        • phillip ure 4.1.1.1

          i don’t feel like an elongated-debate..

          ..all i know is that i know a lot of vegans..

          ..and not a diabetic amongst them..

          ..make of that what you will..

      • northshoredoc 4.1.2

        If only it were that simple phillip.

        • phillip ure 4.1.2.1

          i’m no ‘doc’..doc..

          ..but if you are..

          ..you must know that much of our diabetes epidemic is down to bad diet..

          ..eh..?

          http://whoar.co.nz/?s=diabetes

          • phillip ure 4.1.2.1.1

            and how to explain i know no diabetic-vegans..?

            ..what accounts for that spurning of the national statistical-trends..?

            • Shrubbery 4.1.2.1.1.1

              Small sample size. Selection bias. Overenumeration of favourable circumstances. Any number of reasons really.

          • northshoredoc 4.1.2.1.2

            Absolutely, diet is amongst the most important factors in developing or reversing type 2 diabetes.

            Unfortunately there’s not enough willpower amongst the majority to eat well and exercise, hats off to bad12 for changing his eating habits and seeing the changes that can be made.

        • JAK 4.1.2.2

          Having a handle on complexity can be a real good earner !

    • Colonial Viper 4.2

      You should’ve told her…(your doctor)

      • bad12 4.2.1

        No fucking way CV, not once did the doctor discuss with me what sort of dietary change might bring the numbers both in the cholesterol and the blood sugar down to where they should be,

        Let the glorified pill pushers think they provided the ‘fix’, to do otherwise is to be confronted with ”Doctors ego” and a lot of them have the ego problem, i am at that point with the interesting piece of bone growing on my spine, the Radiologist,(at the center of a complaint to the health and disability commissioner), after first denying this particular outcrop of bone growth was there, when confronted, admitted it was, but, He didn’t consider it could be the source of pain, then recommended an MRI/Cat scan which the Doctor refuses to order on the basis that She ”doesn’t think” along with the radiologist that it is the source of pain,(Doctors ego takes over as they close ranks)…

        • Wonderpup 4.2.1.1

          Ger a better doctor. Preferably one under 40, they are a new breed. Find one that only works part time, because they know that there is more to life than work. If you can’t have a laugh with them, then they’re not for you. Ask around, and find one that diabetics say that they don’t get told off by. Oh, and read everything you can find by Michael Pollan, Marion Nestle, Gary Taubes and Gary Scheiner. They don’t all agree with each other, so you’re going to have to make your own opinions. Live by your HBA1c, not your daily blood tests. Get on insulin, if you’re not already, but don’t fall into the trap of eating to your insulin, rather than injecting to your life.

          (I’ve been diagnosed diabetic for 20 yrs)

          • bad12 4.2.1.1.1

            Wonderpup, Horses for courses, i have found older more experienced doctors are more better in terms of what they do and don’t tell me,

            Are you type 1, i do not even necessarily have a great amount of faith in the type 2 diagnosis, after ditching the Statins 8 weeks out from the next scheduled blood test, i ditched the Metformin 2 weeks later, i trusted in what i was doing with the diet to bring the blood sugar numbers down to where i supposedly wasn’t diabetic,(the blood sugar has improved hugely while still being slightly high),

            My belief is that both the high cholesterol and the high blood sugar were the result of a poor diet, and the blood test after i had ditched the 2 sets of meds would strongly suggest that the diet i came up with, researching the good/bad of everything eaten via the internet is the correct remedy for ME,

            Anyone reading this should note why i stressed the me in the last paragraph, there is diabetes from poor diet ie: ingesting too much sugar which features way too much in a lot of foods it shouldn’t, and then there is Diabetes where the body cannot produce, i think, enough insulin????, anyone with the latter problem i would suggest should disregard what i am saying about diet and stick to the meds…

            • Molly 4.2.1.1.1.1

              Interesting watch for you then bad12 on filmsforaction.org, considering your thoughts on diet and diabetes.

              Documentary style is mediocre, but the story of those with diabetes who managed to stay the distance for 30 days is interesting. Simply Raw: Reversing Diabetes in 30 days.

              A couple of years ago, I went raw for three months. Lost 22 kg without even thinking about it. I really concluded that it was the lack of any kind of processed food that picks up your energy levels and balances your body.

              (… really need to try it again…)

              • bad12

                Tah Molly, i will have a look at the video later, i don’t tho think i could go 30 days on a diet of totally raw foods,

                My method is a bit slower, losing 20+ kilo in 90 days,(but what’s the hurry it took 30 years to put it on),butter and cheese have gone along with 99% of meat, all types of drinks that contain an amount of sugar, and fruit and veg are now by volume the majority of what i eat,

                i take the fat off in small increments adjusting the diet as i go to make sure i can put some back on if needed and continue to take it off, am down to 94 kilo and will be happy when i lose 10 more,

                Definitely feel the benefits in managing pain in both the hips and back along with a way faster recovery time from my fitness regime,(aka working my garden)…

              • Foreign Waka

                Hi Molly, very interesting. What do you consider raw? Does this mean meat and eggs (I can for the life of it not eat them raw!) are out? Only fruit and vege?

              • Chooky

                Thanks Dr. Molly…i will pass this on to a friend who has struggled with his diabetes…..

            • Colonial Viper 4.2.1.1.1.2

              When the so-called food in our supermarkets is actually a poison…

              I take it you have already seen some of Robert Lustig’s presentations on sugar (fructose), obesity, metabolic syndrome and diabetes.

    • Chooky 4.3

      @ bad 12 …you would make a better doctor than your doctor

      btw recently they have been giving cancer patients mega doses of the measles virus in order to combat cancer…on the other hand most of the medical profession and the vaccination industry want to vaccinate children against measles….go figure….we are all just guinea pigs…keep away from docs unless absolutely necessary…or take what they say with a grain of salt…generally they are proved wrong in the end ( but I have great respect for emergency services and the hospital docs)

      • northshoredoc 4.3.1

        “btw recently they have been giving cancer patients mega doses of the measles virus in order to combat cancer”

        No actually that is completely incorrect ……what has been experimented with is treating patients with viruses that have been genetically engineered to specifically infect cancer cells, rather than causing the particular illness that they usually bring. When injected into the body, the viruses seek out and destroy the tumour cells, multiplying inside them to create even more cancer-killing viruses.

        http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/15/us-health-cancer-measles-idUSKBN0DV1Y120140515

        • Chooky 4.3.1.1

          conveniently you forgot to mention the words ‘measles virus’…genetically engineered tinkered with or not ( you think the genetic engineering tinkering is what counts …but no it is the ‘measles virus’ that counts

          …it has long been thought that common childhood viruses like measles rev up the natural immune system and protect against cancer later in life….seems as if those anti- measles vaccine people were right

          • northshoredoc 4.3.1.1.1

            My god you are certifiable.

            No it is not the measles virus that counts, the unmodified measles virus has no anti tumour effect.

            “…it has long been thought that common childhood viruses like measles rev up the natural immune system and protect against cancer later in life….seems as if those anti- measles vaccine people were right.”

            There is absolutely no evidence (zip, zilch, nada) to support this statement.

            • Ad 4.3.1.1.1.1

              What is your view on enabling legal access to marijuana?

              • Chooky

                lol…don’t drive northshoredoc any crazier than what he is….he loves his injections…. but the devils happy weed….he does not want to get into trouble …

              • northshoredoc

                For what purpose ?

    • Rosie 4.4

      Well done bad. It’s great to see patients reclaiming their power – that’s what you’ve done, and have benefited from it.

      • bad12 4.4.1

        Only a slight reclaiming Rosie, my view of the Radiologists non inclusion of the large piece of bone growing on my spine in His original report was that it was simply a device to stifle demand further up the food chain in the hospitals,

        i already knew what the prognosis was from having had an X-ray taken 7 years earlier, something the latter radiologist was unaware of which obviously emboldened Him to not include the bone growth in the report,

        A previous doctor already told me that the system will not operate on such growths until they become life threatening, Lolz, when asked how i would know when this life threatening point had been reached He flatly told me ”Oh it will pierce your bowels”, again Lolz, i thought at the time He should have donned a black cap to deliver such news, but, at least He was being honest,

        What worries me, and i made this point pretty clearly to the health and disability commissioner is if the Radiologist, not knowing i already knew of the bone growths existence, casually disregarded mentioning it in His report is ”what else has He decided to disregard on how many other patients”,

        The wider question of course is then the question of ”was the Radiologist acting by direction and if so by the direction of whom”…

        • Rosie 4.4.1.1

          It’s wrong, in situations where you are fully at the mercy of clinicians, the radiologist in this case (unlike the situation with the Dr’s around taking control of lowering your cholesterol sans meds), that you are forced to be in a position where you have to advocate for yourself, as the level of care provided is inadequate and may likely cause harm.

          The situation with the radiologist is such a worry and totally unacceptable. And I reckon you question rightly in regard to the radiologists’ approach with other patients too, just how wide spread is his approach of disregarding essential clinical information in his reporting….and WHY……

          Good luck for a favourable response from the H & D Commissioner and furthermore, some action on the spinal bone growth. let us know how you get on – if you like.

          • bad12 4.4.1.1.1

            Lolz Rosie, i am not holding my breath for a favorable result from the H and D commission, i demanded that they require the work of the Radiologist be independently audited for as long as He has worked there to discover anything else He chose not to report on other patients,

            Will let you know on that,

            If the worst comes to the worst with my extra piece of bone i will suddenly do the disappear as a quick dial of 111 will be in order, the bone is growing anteriorlly, which means forward, IF it continues to grow it will meet the Transverse section of the Large Intestine at some point which will not be fun times nor sunshine and lolly-pops…

            • Rosie 4.4.1.1.1.1

              Holy crap, not the kind of wait-and-see game you’d want to play – All the best for the bone not stabbing you in the gut. I mean that, you need to stay out of Wellington Hospital. I went there Monday last week for an outpatients appointment where I dealt with a very sick clinician and ended up with the flu!

              Take care bad.

            • greywarbler 4.4.1.1.1.2

              bad12
              How much would it cost to have that scan/procedure done privately in $? Do you know? The problem of getting access to it could result from a reaction to doubt or pressure from you and be a male/female thing. It is important for female self esteem that they feel they are correct and not being questioned just because a male does not have faith in a female opinion. That used to be the case, and I guess still happens sometimes. The approach of saying honestly how much of a problem the condition is to you, may break through to your doctor who may then feel okay about not following the radiologist’s line. People often try to help ‘a problem’

              ‘outcrop of bone growth was there, when confronted, admitted it was, but, He didn’t consider it could be the source of pain, then recommended an MRI/Cat scan which the Doctor refuses to order on the basis that She ”doesn’t think” along with the radiologist that it is the source of pain,(Doctors ego takes over as they close ranks)…’

              Perhaps they will act to help identify definitely what the pain source is. ‘A patient with chronic pain has found what he/she considers a better pain scale than the one previously used for communicating patient to doctor.
              http://lane.stanford.edu/portals/cvicu/HCP_Neuro_Tab_4/0-10_Pain_Scale.pdf

              Here is a discussion of the problems of conveying pain levels which I thought was quite good.
              http://iamtheprofessionalpatient.wordpress.com/2013/12/16/the-challenges-of-doctor-patient-communication-about-pain-and-a-tool-that-could-help/

        • Foreign Waka 4.4.1.2

          Would a hospital reception react if you go in and say that you are in pain?

  5. Turkish PM seen to strike miner in supermarket

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11257268

    Tell John I’ll be in Glenview new world at 4pm.

    • Colonial Viper 5.1

      Aide to Erdogan PM photographed kicking protestor restrained on ground by soldiers

      This earlier incident happened 3 days ago

      Something very wrong with the current Turkish ruling establishment. These are the same people who have used brute force on peaceful protestors in recent years.

      http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/15/turkey-mine-disaster-aid-pm-pictures-kicking-protester

      • The Al1en 5.1.1

        At least Erdogan hasn’t promised to do everything he can for the families and reneged on the statement yet.

      • Rosie 5.1.2

        That was a shocking photo the world got to see but sadly such violent actions against work rights and human rights protesters aren’t uncommon in Turkey.

        Those who receives email newsletters from international Unions and labour rights organisations will see that Turkish workers have been routinely exposed to unsafe working conditions and harassment from employers and authorities, and examples of these have increased during Erdogan’s leadership. Turkey is always up there with Colombia and Bangladesh with news of work rights abuses and unlawful detention of Union delegates and leaders.

        This article from June last year covers the basics;

        http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/17084-turkey-needs-a-labor-rights-spring

      • Foreign Waka 5.1.3

        Not really, they are under stress as the country is Muslim and tries to do good with the christian Europe (Nato). Sitting on the Prosperous, figuratively and literally caught between 2 worlds whose fight is getting fiercer with every year. The only way to keep control is to control the people. Watch this spot, it will be another sparked up area and the fight of faith is inching towards the West.

    • Tracey 5.2

      lololol

  6. Colonial Viper 6

    Police pursuing surveillance state in full

    Authorities push for facial recognition cameras to go up nationwide.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11257325

    The ease of misuse of this live camera information by the authorities (and no doubt their private sector contractors), also sharing of images as well as live feeds with other Five Eyes nations, is very significant.

    • wyndham 6.1

      George Orwell’s 1984 looms ever closer.

      • It’s already here, Wyndham. The best Surveillance Police State is when the public are oblivious to it.

        • The Al1en 6.1.1.1

          The sis and gcsb missed a biggie yesterday. I hid the plans to a nuclear reactor, dirty bomb, drone schematics, a list of all worldwide foreign agents and kim dotcoms grocery list in a song I uploaded yesterday.
          Play that bad boy back in reverse and let the frogs of war run free. 🙂

          Edit: Site admin, I apologise for the trigger words, but at least you’ll know the ip of the spooks that come a crawling 😆

        • dv 6.1.1.2

          Frank your latest piece on the budget is very good.
          Well worth a read

          http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/05/19/budget-2014-what-deceits-lie-in-this-document/

          • Gosman 6.1.1.2.1

            It is a “So what” article. It’s main purpose seems to be to whine about the fact the Bill English isn’t giving Labour Credit for low debt which helped him get back in to surplus without increasing debt too much.

    • karol 6.2

      burqas, balaclavas, and vendetta masks for all!

    • Colonial Viper 6.3

      It’s a three part problem. The overarching concept is that of modern civil rights – the necessary ability to enforce restrictions and limitations on a (very powerful) state, its agents, and how they must treat and behave towards their own citizens with fairness and due process.

      When people say civil liberties are being stripped – it’s very bad news for the direction of society as a whole.

      The 3 parts of the problem as I see it –

      1) General privacy – the ability of every free citizen to pursue his or her own life, thoughts, relationships and goals without being constantly monitored by god-only-knows-who

      2) Misuse of information: just check out the number of police staff/officers, hospital staff etc who have been found guilty of misusing or inappropriately accessing police or medical records. This shit happens all the time. Also google LOVEINT for the NSA version.

      3) Total power imbalance between ordinary citizens and the power elite: where dissent, protest and political opposition can be tracked, criminalised, undermined and smeared by an unaccountable power elite. People and structures who know everything about what you do and who you talk to – but you know nothing about what they do and who they talk to.

      There is a fourth area of concern and that is economic espionage of entire industries or countries, but that’s a whole other ball game.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.3.1

        3) Total power imbalance between ordinary citizens and the power elite: where dissent, protest and political opposition can be tracked, criminalised, undermined and smeared by an unaccountable power elite. People and structures who know everything about what you do and who you talk to – but you know nothing about what they do and who they talk to.

        So, that would be Google, Yahoo, MS etc etc

        The problem isn’t the state having this data – it’s the private companies that will have access to it. And they will have access to it, that’s what the ongoing privatisation is all about.

        • Colonial Viper 6.3.1.1

          The problem isn’t the state having this data – it’s the private companies that will have access to it.

          I disagree about your diagnosis of ‘where the problem is’. The state is part of the main problem IMO.

          Firstly in the US the form of government is a corporatocracy – i.e. there is no longer any clear dividing line between private corporations and “the state.”

          Secondly – corporations (cannot yet) declare you persona non grata and have you held in indefinite detention, without charge, at a military run black site in Nigeria, or summarily executed by drone without trial. The state can.

          Thirdly – history tells us that whenever ‘the state’ builds a massive, highly secretive security and surveillance programme, it will eventually end up using those tools against its own people.

          • Draco T Bastard 6.3.1.1.1

            Firstly in the US the form of government is a corporatocracy – i.e. there is no longer any clear dividing line between private corporations and “the state.”

            Same as here really.

            Secondly – corporations (cannot yet) declare you persona non grata and have you held in indefinite detention, without charge, at a military run black site in Nigeria, or summarily executed by drone without trial. The state can.

            Under a plutocracy/oligarchy the state will do what it’s told.

            Thirdly – history tells us that whenever ‘the state’ builds a massive, highly secretive security and surveillance programme, it will eventually end up using those tools against its own people.

            Then don’t make it highly secretive.

            To be honest, I’m in two minds about it. I don’t like the state monitoring people personal lives but I can see the advantages with statistics and crime. And we need those statistics with the crime bit being an added benefit. As far as I’m concerned no one should be able to live monitor those cameras unless there’s an emergency or a crime to solve.

          • Murray Olsen 6.3.1.1.2

            CV, corporations have no problem getting people summarily executed in the 3rd world. They don’t let their lack of drones stop them when someone protests about oil extraction polluting rivers in the Amazon, or people protesting the activities of agroindustry. It’s often when they can’t do their own dirty work, for whatever reason, that they call in the state.

            • Colonial Viper 6.3.1.1.2.1

              Oh of course. I’m not saying that corporates are the good guys here. Just look at the activities of the East India Company (which were fully sanctioned by the government of the British Empire).

              The difference is that we are now in an age where the cruel tactics of colonial/feudal empire which were applied to and perfected in third world nations are now being brought home to the centre of western developed countries. The breaking up of the Occupy movement in the US by the government using electronic surveillance, drone recon, specialist infiltration and teams of black clad body armoured men carrying long barreled assault weapons transported by armoured vehicles. It doesn’t look any different from what they would use in Fallujah, and the orders were given by the same US politicians who greenlit operations in Fallujah.

              Only this time it was applied to Oakland, Ca. against American kids.

              Of course this is nothing new. The tyranny that the power elite of the ancient Greeks brought upon their subjugated foreign territories, they eventually also brought back home unto their own.

        • Colonial Viper 6.3.1.2

          The problem isn’t the state having this data – it’s the private companies that will have access to it. And they will have access to it, that’s what the ongoing privatisation is all about.

          A nurse who worked at a DHB became aware that her ex-husband had a new woman in his life. The nurse then went on to look up that woman’s electronic medical records 44 times in 38 days. The nurse went on to use some of the information she had gained.

          Public employee, public sector, state funded, not a corporate.

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11257330

          • Draco T Bastard 6.3.1.2.1

            So, what’s the percentage of misuse and what processes are in place to prevent such misuse?

            You really can’t say ZOMG, this one thing happened and thus it’s all bad. Which you seem to do every time someone mentions using a computer.

            All the systems we use have an element of risk. The question is whether any one system provides more benefits than risk. As far as medical records go I’d rather have them on a central government database than not because of the benefits that it provides.

            • Colonial Viper 6.3.1.2.1.1

              There are literally dozens of known/prosecuted cases over the last 10 years in NZ, and the number of unknown/unpursued cases will be many times that.

              Keep your blinders on if you like Draco, but at the end of the day I am not concerned with some jealous ex- looking up my or your details, I am very concerned in the faith you are putting in a state security apparatus which is remaking itself into a panopticon able to follow and predict all our thoughts and our movements.

              And this isn’t hyperbole. In Dunedin they installed computerised networked number plate reading cameras without consulting with the public. Where does that live information go? Who is it accessible by? What exists to prevent that information from being accessed and sent overseas?

              And have you noticed google’s real time search function? The one which sends each keystroke you type over the internet and then predicts ahead of you completing your sentence what you are searching for? How do you know that google is not monitoring every single keystroke you type into your browser, not just when you use the search box?

              And that’s like the tip of the tip of the iceberg, mate.

              Then do some actual damn research on how the security state has treated people like Manning, Binney, Appelbaum, Keriakau and others, keeping in all the while mind that NZ is an integral part of the FVEYE partnership.

              BTW the argument that ‘you’d rather it was the state rather than private corporations’ holding this information is fair enough but you know as well as me that “the state” uses private sector cloud providers like Amazon and private sector IT consultants all the time. Just like Edward Snowden worked for Booz Allen consultants.

              • Draco T Bastard

                There are literally dozens of known/prosecuted cases over the last 10 years in NZ, and the number of unknown/unpursued cases will be many times that.

                Dozens out of how many millions of possibles? And the last part of your sentence is pure hyperbole.

                In Dunedin they installed computerised networked number plate reading cameras without consulting with the public. Where does that live information go? Who is it accessible by? What exists to prevent that information from being accessed and sent overseas?

                That’s still not a reason not to do it but it is a reason for more transparency from our public service.

                BTW the argument that ‘you’d rather it was the state rather than private corporations’ holding this information is fair enough but you know as well as me that “the state” uses private sector cloud providers like Amazon and private sector IT consultants all the time.

                Which means that it needs to be illegal for the state to use private consultants and providers and for a charge of treason to apply to anyone in government/public service who causes it to be done.

                • TheContrarian

                  CV, this is the same Draco that didn’t thinking hacking/internet security breaches were really that much of a problem or very frequent despite 100’s of cases of such security breaches…at the tip of the iceberg

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Well, I have somewhat less faith in the integrity of the design and implementation of these systems, also in how the power elite might use them to advantage themselves, and to disadvantage ordinary citizens.

                    And as you point out, its not like we are short of examples of where things have gone badly wrong.

                    Draco’s idea that ‘it’s only a really small % of transactions through the system which are the problem’ also ducks the core issue – that the entire system itself is weighted against ordinary citizens, for the interests of a very few people, and it was deliberately designed that way.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      that the entire system itself is weighted against ordinary citizens, for the interests of a very few people, and it was deliberately designed that way.

                      So we redesign it.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      So we redesign it.

                      The power elite aren’t going to allow that to be funded.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    very frequent despite 100′s of cases of such security breaches…at the tip of the iceberg

                    You didn’t provide hundreds of cases of internet security breaches. You presented hundreds of cases of security breaches most of which seemed to be physical breaches.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      You speak as if the internet is not based on physical hardware, cables and interfaces which can be compromised just like the firmware and software parts of it can be.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Dozens out of how many millions of possibles? And the last part of your sentence is pure hyperbole.

                  Sorry mate – well known fact – the vast majority of “white collar” style computer crime/systems fraud is not reported. So not hyperbole at all, just fact.

                  As for all the other safeguards you mentioned – sure they might be effective – but no one is talking about implementing them.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    well known fact

                    Well then, you’ll be able to provide the research won’t you. And provide the percentages.

                    but no one is talking about implementing them.

                    Then we need to talk about them rather than hiding behind kneejerk reaction.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Well then, you’ll be able to provide the research won’t you. And provide the percentages.

                      Hmmmm are you trying to be a dick about this now? Are you even trying to suggest that most computer crime is reported? Very well have it your way.

                      For cybercrime events, the difference between victimization and police-recorded crime can be many orders of magnitude. Online consumer credit card fraud victimization reported in population-based surveys, for example, may alone be more than 80 times greater than total police recorded
                      computer-related fraud and forgery in the same country.3 According to one populationbased
                      survey of almost 20,000 individual internet users in 24 countries, only 21 per cent of respondents who said that they had been a victim of any cybercrime act indicated that they had reported the act to the police.

                      http://www.unodc.org/documents/organized-crime/UNODC_CCPCJ_EG.4_2013/CYBERCRIME_STUDY_210213.pdf

                      (quote is from Annex 2 of the document “Measuring Cybercrime”)

            • McFlock 6.3.1.2.1.2

              The question is whether any one system provides more benefits than risk. As far as medical records go I’d rather have them on a central government database than not because of the benefits that it provides.

              No, you also have to consider how that one system interacts with all the others.

              There are good reasons to have patient records (including primary healthcare) on one database, because if I go up to Auckland and have an accident they’ll need to know what meds I’m on, what symptoms are chronic and what symptoms might have been caused by my misadventure. BUT

              I’m also in mind of the audit the cops did of who accessed crime records, including active investigations. A number of sworn and nonsworn staff were done for accessing the casefiles of prominent cases when, e.g. the crime was in southland and the officer was way up north, or vice versa. Imagine that they were poorly paid DHB crunchers accessing your mental health records (for a hypothetical) after being bribed by your ex-to-be’s lawyer’s PI.

              And will it make us more blasé about other data-matching? Big debates about the first street cameras, not much of a whimper about ANR/AFR.

              So while work is progressing on a unified patient data system, the real work is not being done so much on database integration so much as nutting out who can access what and how it’s protected. And that’s a fuckload of work before coding keystroke one, not some magical hand-waving ‘oh, we can make it safe and secure’. Not in the real world.

              • Colonial Viper

                I don’t think Draco has worked on any serious tech development projects before. It’s always very easy to under estimate the time, complexity and cost of implementing well designed systems with proper safe guards, even with all the will in the world. And I sense that the will is sorely lacking amongst the power elite who want these technologies as ‘force multipliers’ for their own interests.

                • Lanthanide

                  +100

                  Draco is very very idealistic / naieve when it comes to technology matters (remember when he tried to convince us that every single problem had been solve with e-voting?).

                  • TheContrarian

                    Not to mention the frequency in which he moves the goalposts, ignores contrary evidence and refuses to change his mind in light of new evidence.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    remember when he tried to convince us that every single problem had been solve with e-voting?

                    That would be difficult to remember as I’ve never said that. I’ve always said that there are risks but that they are manageable.

  7. Adrian 7

    Nothing new there. This Government has been kicking the Pike River community for years.

  8. tricledrown 8

    Gosman crime had fallen in most western countries becausr of new technology cctv DNA computers for quick accurate information sharing cell phone monitering and a rapidly aging population.
    Venezuela is a developing country with a very young population and poor infrastructure.
    Somalia anyone.

    [lprent: I fail to see the relevance to this post. Moved to OpenMike ]

    • Gosman 8.1

      Venezuela is a middle income country which used to enjoy the highest living standards in Latin America. I’d suggest it is highly arrogant, bordering on racist, to claim the problems in Venezuela are because it is a developing nation.

      • Tracey 8.1.1

        perhaps the decades of us and cia undermining have assisted with high crime rates and economic issues. that venezuela is the fifth largest oil producing nation is probably just a coincidence

        • Gosman 8.1.1.1

          Why can’t you accept that the problems in Venezuela are mainly the result of the policies introduced by Venezuelans? Instead you create a conspiracy story about how shortages of basic foods and increased crime rate are caused by the ‘evil’ machinations of the CIA. They aren’t. The CIA doesn’t have that sort of ability. The sort of problems in places like Venezuela are the inevitable outcomes of adopting the sort of policy mix that they are following. In that sense it was an entirely predictable outcome.

          • thatguynz 8.1.1.1.1

            🙄

            • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.1.1

              The sort of problems in places like Venezuela are the inevitable outcomes of adopting the sort of policy mix that they are following. In that sense it was an entirely predictable outcome.

              Of course it was entirely predictable, Venezuela had a toxic mix of – a government who wanted to advantage it’s own people instead of foreign corporates, and a US embassy.

              And of course, the US has never actively worked to economically isolate and destabilise governments that it doesn’t like lol that’s never happened before

              • Gosman

                Whether or not the US has done that or not is largely irrelevant because the US generally can’t cause the sort of economic damage that a nation does to itself via the sort of dumb ass leftist policies followed by countries like Venezuela. All the US provides is an excuse for the economically illiterate rulers of said country to blame their own incompetence on.

              • srylands

                How naive. Have you ever been out of Dunedin? Go to Argentina and check out the chaos that ensues. It is all home grown, I assure you.

          • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1.2

            Wow, Gosman, you really do live in a different world don’t you?

            • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.2.1

              They must hate us because we love freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

      • joe90 8.1.2

        Venezuela is a middle income country which used to enjoy the highest living standards in Latin America.

        John Gunther wrote Inside Latin America in 1941 describing Venezuela fifteen years into an oil boom when Caracas had the highest cost of living in the world with food prices typically 10 or more times higher than in the US.

        A country which boasted more than 50 revolutions in a century, an illiteracy rate of 90%, feudal social systems dominated by a landed class who refused to modernise.

        A country where a majority of goods were imported and heavily taxed, a country where tariffs were imposed to support an almost non-existent agricultural sector which had all but collapsed following the departure of the poor to work in the oil-fields.

        A country where despite huge oil revenues since the 1920’s there was no industrial base.

        http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/e/scrc/findingaids/view.php?eadid=ICU.SPCL.JGUNTHER#idp59390512

        http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/page/1860766?zoomLevel=1

  9. vto 9

    The greed of farmers goes on unabated.

    More money, give us more money. We want more money more more more more ….

    Two stories. First, Ngai Tahu wanting to convert 7,000 ha of land immediately adjacent to the Hurunui River into irrigated intensive dairy. The river itself is already polluted to the extent of warnings re fishing and swimming. The new Regional Plan only five months old has nutrient levels already exceeded. The land itself is very bony and prone to leaching…. yet still Ngai Tahu persists.

    Kind of puts any claims about them being stewards of the land to shit … http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/editors-picks/10057878/Farm-conversion-plan-opposed

    Just like most all farmers, who over the years always cry “but we want to care for the land and leave it better than we have it now”, when the reality is that the environment today is worse than 20 years ago, and worse than 20 years before that, and 20 years before that. In other words, the farming sector has worsened the environment year after year after year after year… this is the measured fact.

    Second story, another irrigation / dam proposal in Canterbury whereby in the event of dam failure following an earthquake or similar, at least three people are expected to die and countless homes and property destroyed. “Oh, don’t worry” say the proponents “the chances of that happening in Canterbury are very low”…… yes I know, unbelievable isn’t it…

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/north-canterbury/10057902/Fatalities-forecast-if-planned-dams-fail

    Greed, greed, greed.

    Personally I have no respect for these people and only animosity. Their attitude and actions are behaviour of the lowest human kind. Fuck them.

    • Chooky 9.1

      @ vto…yes it is very disappointing from Ngai Tahu Corporation….surely with a bit of specialist advice from Lincoln College and nous and entrepreneurialship they can find another land use for this area and become ecological leaders eg grow medicinal herbs, seeds etc….from what i have heard growing seeds for the right international market is way more profitable than being involved in the dairy industry

      Ngai Tahu really has to take its Mana and Kaitiaki of the land and rivers very seriously if it is not to betray/sully its Mana /reputation inherited from the ancestors …the Old Maori of the land who were conservationists and very spiritual ecologically minded

      • vto 9.1.1

        That’s right chooky. I’m sure the posts of mine sometimes read quite harsh – harsher than intended probably. However, this aint tiddlywinks, as Tana Umaga famously put it once… this is about people’s lives and the land on which we live. The land on which my children and their children will live and breathe.

        It is intensely disappointing as Ngai Tahu are in the sweet spot to lead on these types of issues, in ways you suggest, rather than tag along on the dairy greed train. They also take a much longer view than most, which is good, so I don’t understand why they go down this sort of path. It most definitely diminishes them.

        But you know – self-justification is a sight to behold ……..

        • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.1

          Almost as bad as contracting in foreign fishing boats with slave-like working conditions

          • marty mars 9.1.1.1.1

            almost as bad as actually using slaves to produce those trinkets you love so much

            • vto 9.1.1.1.1.1

              only sentence – personal, irrelevant, useless

              net result – nothing

              • that is harsh – it seems very relevant

                • Colonial Viper

                  Did you not like the point I was making MM? Did something about it cause you discomfort? Remember that feeling. It’s called cognitive dissonance. It’s a feeling which teaches much. Those who were once subjugated can sometimes learn very quickly to subjugate others.

                  • fuck off – you made a snide comment and i replied in kind with a comment that probably made you shit your pants with cognitive dissonance. i don’t like the way the fishing is done and I would do anything to stop the disgusting practices – like not buying fish for instance – can you or vot say the same? Or are you joining in with his hate session – have you even been to the marae down there or heard the histories?

          • Foreign Waka 9.1.1.1.2

            Yes, the guardians…..

        • marty mars 9.1.1.2

          “It most definitely diminishes them.”

          lol vto you have consistently shown animosity towards the iwi. I have even gone to the trouble to explain some basic concepts to you recently because you didn’t even slightly understand the concepts and what has happened to that effort – nothing, you ignored my genuine attempt to help you to continue on with your ignorance. You are a sad case.

          • vto 9.1.1.2.1

            first sentence – personal, irrelevant, useless.
            second sentence – personal, irrelevant, useless.
            last sentence – personal, irrelevant, useless

            net result – nothing

            • marty mars 9.1.1.2.1.1

              truth hurts eh vto – you. are. a. waste. of. space. Please go back to your self-imposed ban on my comments.

              • vto

                first sentence – personal, irrelevant, useless
                second sentence – personal, irrelevant, useless

                net result – nothing

                • “I have even gone to the trouble to explain some basic concepts to you recently because you didn’t even slightly understand the concepts and what has happened to that effort – nothing, you ignored my genuine attempt to help you to continue on with your ignorance.”

                  hardly useless as my sentences outline a wasted effort on my part – the knowledge given freely squandered by you in a orgy of extravagance – your shame is palatable.

                  • vto

                    personal, irrelevant, useless

                    net result – nothing

                    • What do you mean?

                    • vto

                      “…
                      The greed of farmers goes on unabated.

                      More money, give us more money. We want more money more more more more ….

                      Two stories. First, Ngai Tahu wanting to convert 7,000 ha of land immediately adjacent to the Hurunui River into irrigated intensive dairy. The river itself is already polluted to the extent of warnings re fishing and swimming. The new Regional Plan only five months old has nutrient levels already exceeded. The land itself is very bony and prone to leaching…. yet still Ngai Tahu persists.

                      Kind of puts any claims about them being stewards of the land to shit … http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/editors-picks/10057878/Farm-conversion-plan-opposed

                      Just like most all farmers, who over the years always cry “but we want to care for the land and leave it better than we have it now”, when the reality is that the environment today is worse than 20 years ago, and worse than 20 years before that, and 20 years before that. In other words, the farming sector has worsened the environment year after year after year after year… this is the measured fact.

                      Second story, another irrigation / dam proposal in Canterbury whereby in the event of dam failure following an earthquake or similar, at least three people are expected to die and countless homes and property destroyed. “Oh, don’t worry” say the proponents “the chances of that happening in Canterbury are very low”…… yes I know, unbelievable isn’t it…

                      http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/north-canterbury/10057902/Fatalities-forecast-if-planned-dams-fail

                      Greed, greed, greed.

                      Personally I have no respect for these people and only animosity. Their attitude and actions are behaviour of the lowest human kind. Fuck them…

          • marty mars 9.1.1.2.2

            For those who wonder why vto is acting like this I submit a post i did on him which shows a lot about the persona vto.

            http://mars2earth.blogspot.co.nz/2013/05/i-dont-tolerate-race-baiters.html

            and for balance this was another post i did about vto which offers insight into his anger and belligerence

            http://mars2earth.blogspot.co.nz/2012/03/vto-and-me.html

            • vto 9.1.1.2.2.1

              personal, irrelevant, useless

              net result – nothing

              • How do you mean?

                • vto

                  “…
                  The greed of farmers goes on unabated.

                  More money, give us more money. We want more money more more more more ….

                  Two stories. First, Ngai Tahu wanting to convert 7,000 ha of land immediately adjacent to the Hurunui River into irrigated intensive dairy. The river itself is already polluted to the extent of warnings re fishing and swimming. The new Regional Plan only five months old has nutrient levels already exceeded. The land itself is very bony and prone to leaching…. yet still Ngai Tahu persists.

                  Kind of puts any claims about them being stewards of the land to shit … http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/editors-picks/10057878/Farm-conversion-plan-opposed

                  Just like most all farmers, who over the years always cry “but we want to care for the land and leave it better than we have it now”, when the reality is that the environment today is worse than 20 years ago, and worse than 20 years before that, and 20 years before that. In other words, the farming sector has worsened the environment year after year after year after year… this is the measured fact.

                  Second story, another irrigation / dam proposal in Canterbury whereby in the event of dam failure following an earthquake or similar, at least three people are expected to die and countless homes and property destroyed. “Oh, don’t worry” say the proponents “the chances of that happening in Canterbury are very low”…… yes I know, unbelievable isn’t it…

                  http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/north-canterbury/10057902/Fatalities-forecast-if-planned-dams-fail

                  Greed, greed, greed.

                  Personally I have no respect for these people and only animosity. Their attitude and actions are behaviour of the lowest human kind. Fuck them….

                  • “There are about 11,400 dairy farms in New Zealand, including non-commercial smallholding farms.”

                    http://www.getahead.co.nz/the-lowdown/the-facts/dairy/

                    These are where the farms that have polluted the environment are, not the new ones coming on now. So start your campaign with these ones – perhaps a boycott or name and shame campaign – get facebook going on it – a media release or two – go for it, I’d even support you if you stood tall for your principles.

                    • vto

                      Believe it or not I do put words into actions on various fronts from time to time. Such fronts have been somewhat limited recent years however due to unforeseen events ….

                      keep an eye out as the years pass

                    • weka

                      “http://www.getahead.co.nz/the-lowdown/the-facts/dairy/”

                      The FP of that site is one of the most depressing things I’ve seen in a while.


                      The Facts about Dairy Farming

                      There are about 11,400 dairy farms in New Zealand, including non-commercial smallholding farms.

                      There are about 11,800 dairy herds, totalling over 4.6 million cows.

                      Since the year 2000, the amount of land used for dairy farming has increased from 1,330,000 hectares to almost 1,640,000 hectares.

                      In 1990 the average herd size was 160 cows, today it is 393 cows.

                      The majority of herds are in the North Island (62.9%), with an average North Island herd size of 327 cows.

                      Generally the largest farms and herds are in the South Island, where there has been most growth in dairy farming in the past 10 years. South Canterbury has the largest average herd size of 779 cows.

                      Total milk production has increased from nearly 13 billion litres in 2000 to over 19.1 billion litres in 2012.

                      Ninety-five per cent of all milk produced is processed for export.

                      New Zealand’s largest dairy company, Fonterra, earns about 20% of the country’s total export income.

                      Our dairy season runs from 1 June to 31 May.

                      They say all that as if they’re Good Things 🙁

                    • Clemgeopin

                      @ weka

                      And they can’t or won’t even sell the milk us, the local consumers. at cheaper rates. Bastards.

                    • miravox

                      I’d quite like to see the facts about how much feed is imported for 4.6 million cows. Especially in dry South Canterbury.

                    • weka

                      Given they’re supplemental feeding on imports in places like Southland….

      • marty mars 9.1.2

        “Ngai Tahu really has to take its Mana and Kaitiaki of the land and rivers very seriously if it is not to betray/sully its Mana /reputation inherited from the ancestors…the Old Maori of the land who were conservationists and very spiritual ecologically minded”

        That sort of statement makes me laugh – so much ignorance in so few words. Stick to dissing doctors chooky because if you jump on the vto bandwagon tears will flow.

        • vto 9.1.2.1

          first sentence – personal, irrelevant, useless.
          second sentence – personal, irrelevant, useless.

          net result – nothing

          • marty mars 9.1.2.1.1

            first sentence – not even a sentence.
            second sentence – again a non-sentence.

            net result – nothing times 2

            Please make a better effort which will greatly enhance your chances of gaining popularity.

    • Rosie 9.2

      “Personally I have no respect for these people and only animosity. Their attitude and actions are behaviour of the lowest human kind. Fuck them.”

      Well vto, I do understand where your sentiments are coming from. Apart from the few and far between examples of responsible dairy farmers on Country Calendar over the years and that “Keeping it Pure” series, these short sighted greedy environmental and animal abusing “people” don’t inspire any respect in me either.

      And thats not speaking as an uppity townie either – My grandparents were dairy farmers and I still have cousins dairying…….

      • vto 9.2.1

        Same. It may read harshly but when they do these things and they impact very directly on other people then its gloves off… after all they have their gloves off and going for it, stuff everyone else…. another example of it is Central Plains Water whereby they achieved “Requiring Authority” status. This allowed them to compulsorily take other peoples homes and property for the purposes of their private business. It is just gobsmacking.

        .. life is a funny thing… it tends to go full circle. It will be interesting to see how this all comes back to bite this greed ………

        • Rosie 9.2.1.1

          Oh, yes, lets not forget Central Plains Water! Amy Adams, Minister for Destroying the Environment, seems to have gotten away with her self advancing part in the govt funded private scheme……….but you’re right vto, those chickens gonna come home to roost one day.

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/agribusiness/9838125/Columnist-stands-by-Amy-Adams-claims

          John Banks is in court today. The other corrupt and dodgy Nats one day will surely have to be held to account, or publicly and historically judged at least if not for their illegal dealings but for their moral and social failings.

          • vto 9.2.1.1.1

            Rosie, you must be some sort of clairvoyant

            … this … “those chickens gonna come home to roost one day.” …

            … and then this …. “John Banks is in court today”

            in one comment mere hours before the mud got thrown

            • Colonial Viper 9.2.1.1.1.1

              Greed for money above all else is the white man’s sickness. And today that sickness has spread amongst very many different peoples of many different cultures.

              People have to learn a very simple thing – corporate organisations can never approach the morality of individuals. And if corporate organisations begin to act in harmful and compromised ways, they must be defied even if they are the organisations that you nominally identify with. To me this is what you pointed to, and what MM refused to acknowledge even though I am sure he knows better.

              • vto

                Greed itself I think is common to all, but it shows itself in different forms. In the current white mans world money leads to power and this is the common aphrodisiac which drives it. Money itself quickly pales – it is the power that results from money that is the cause of the trouble.

                You are right that it has spread, and you are right about the corporate of course. The corporate is a creature of legislated logic and nothing more. Of course the corporate has only been around a couple hundred years or so and I suspect it is beginning to reach its use-by date as all of its negative features become apparent – and dangerous to society. What we see with business in NZ is exactly this dilemma, be it finance companies, dairying, Pike River, the list is extensive …

                • Colonial Viper

                  Of course the corporate has only been around a couple hundred years or so

                  In fact, much longer than 100 years. The west has been in this game a long time. Example: the Dutch East India Company, formed in the 1600s to carry out colonial exploitation.

                  If you prefer a more local example – the New Zealand Company, formed for the exploitation of these newly discovered lands almost 180 years ago.

              • vto won’t like the white man bit there cv.

                Most people i know already know what you have explained, including me.

                I have explained in the past to vto regarding mana and how it applies here in regards to entities that represent iwi members – I’m not going to bother again. Every day you interact and support the corporations you denounce – why is that cv, why not stand on your principles eh?

                • Colonial Viper

                  Do you think it smart or clever, your rebuke about my use of trinkets, toys and services produced by foreign corporations?

                  You believe that it can form some kind of shield for Ngai Tahu’s massively profitable yet environmentally damaging corporate decision, by using a smear and implying that I am a hypocrite for raising the point?

                  No sir; yours is arguing from a position of moral weakness and merely describes how corporatised and commercialised our ordinary existance has become, and how Ngai Tahu Corporate have joined a long line of other entities and organisations who now seem far too comfortable with the use of environmental exploitation for economic profit.

                  Just as I stood against contracts for crappy trains from China; that commercial activity was the wrong thing for NZ to be involved with and harmful to our national heritage and long term interests, as is conversion of forestry land into even more dairy farms, extraction of even more precious and rare fresh water for feeding to cows, and further intensification of what has been reported to be an already well over-dairyed region.

                  But as you say, perhaps you are too fatigued to say anything more about the matter; and anyways, your peers would not like you criticising Ngai Tahu’s profitable commercial decisions in too robust a manner.

                  • There are many corporates and many dairy farms – choosing one group (late to the game) and castigating them for their decisions whilst sitting there utilizing all of the products and services made and delivered by all of the corporations out there is hypocritical. Bringing up an unrelated matter (slave fishing) to make your point just shows that you are petty.

                    I didn’t say i was fatigued I think… but i can assure you some in the iwi organisation cannot stand my view and me and the outlets I express that view in. I stand for what i believe in. I would not create dairy farms, i would not dam or fuck the rivers, i would not sell land or anything else, I would focus on people and community and connection. And all of those things would be above profit and increased market share. But alas i am just one voice even though I refuse to be quiet – much to the irritation of everyone 🙂

              • weka

                “People have to learn a very simple thing – corporate organisations can never approach the morality of individuals. And if corporate organisations begin to act in harmful and compromised ways, they must be defied even if they are the organisations that you nominally identify with.”

                I hope that the people opposing the Hurunui dairy farms are successful.

                I find it interesting that the focus is on Ngāi Tahu (focussing on NTF would be more accurate), instead of Ecan. The common denominator in the wholesale pollution of NZ by industrial dairying is the regional councils, bodies elected by the general public (yes, I’m aware of the issues with Ecan). How is it that the regional councils have stood by and let NZ become so polluted? How is it that we have allowed this shit to go on for so long? If you look at who are on the regional councils traditionally, and who bothers to vote in local body elections, it’s pretty clear that NZ wants to ‘protect the environment’ but is not really willing to do much to ensure that.

                Yes NTF have culpability, and beyond that the iwi have responsibilities too. But we can’t take potshots at NT and pretend that we are any different when it comes down to it.

                • vto

                  weka, I have railed against all parties including the regional councils.

                  You ask ” How is it that the regional councils have stood by and let NZ become so polluted?” Because they are controlled by farming interests. Simple. And this government has pushed more power into the regional councils for this very reason – it keeps the pesky greenies out of the picture.

                  Example – Westland Regional Council. Corrupt as all shit. So corrupt that some Councillors have even stood in the dock shoulder to shoulder in support of a farmer being prosecuted by their very Council for illegally altering the Taramakau River. How is that? True story. No regard for the separation of powers and governance issues. The links and corruption in Westland is mind-boggling. Check it out one day.

                  Then move onto Southland. Ecan of course. It is a simple and sad tale. The Regional Councils are controlled by farming interests. End of story.

                  • weka

                    It’s not the end of the story. We can take that further. Regional councils are publicly elected bodies. That means that we, the public, have responsibilities here, we are not passive victims with not power or control. When you say “Ngai Tahu should do x, y, z” you also have to say that the rest of NZ also has to do x, y, z. Pretty sure that most regional councils will be dominated by white men. Why is that?

              • McFlock

                corporate organisations can never approach the morality of individuals

                Personally I’ve always figured that any organisation is only as morally good as the least moral individual in it. You can only go so far with fragmentation of authority and bureaucratic disconnection from outcome, but you need a real bastard somewhere to come up with ingenious ways to be evil.

                • Colonial Viper

                  While your comment rings true, we have to remember that it was ‘some ingenious evil bastard’ who dreamt up the idea, it was ordinary clerks, book keepers, schedulers and linesmen looking after their careers, collecting their wages, feeding their families, and turning a blind eye, who allowed the trains to Treblinka to keep running on time.

                  • Gosman

                    What about Trade Unions then? Are they not just another organised collective?

                  • McFlock

                    indeed – but they were necessary, not sufficient.
                    And while most would have known what was going on to greater or lesser degrees (or levels of self-denial), it never would have happened without a few folk at the top issuing the orders and planning logistics and the sheer practical obstacles to that level of slaughter.

                    The clerks could equally have been running an aid agency.

  10. tricledrown 10

    Adrian Turkey has arrested everybody and anybody related to safety in the mine disaster.
    In the Pike River case everyone got immunity under National!

  11. Philj 11

    xox
    I was driving past the Hurinui River and the pine plantations that in the area that are being cleared for dairy pollution. It’s a beautiful area and so is the hinterland of Canterbury that is about to be irrigated with dairy effluent. This is extremely experimental and risky to the health of the water and environment. So the Government sacked the democratic body responsible for the environment! Alarming.

  12. Cat gives its owner 5kg of cannabis

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11257527

    Mr Ure trains his cat ‘Dodger’ and renames him ‘Fagin’s little helper’ 😆

    And Gareth Morgan releases a statement “I love cats man, they’re so intense. Now I’m off to get some Whiskas and 3 Mars bars from the night garage”

  13. tricledrown 13

    Gosman you speak with forked tongue so when did Venezuela have the least inequality and highest living standards.
    That was when Hugo Chavez took control from 2000 till 2008.
    Then GFC stuffed that along with US trade sanctions on Oil equipment(US companies supply most of Worlds equipment).
    Now Venezuelas oil infrastructure has been run down.
    The US CIA would be happy to have another facist corrupt dictator in charge like pre 2000.
    So Cia yesman trying to bully me with your racist rhetoric and half truths won,t win any argument!

    [lprent: Off topic – moved to Open Mike. ]

  14. Tracey 14

    re: collins lack of standards

    put me in mind of the earlier days of the key administration. remember these quotes?

    Double standards for Double Dipton?

  15. veutoviper 15

    Today, the trial of John Banks started in No 6 Court at Auckland High Court. Going to be interesting ….

    RNZ National reported on the 10am news that someone threw a bucket of dirt over Banks as he was going into court. This has delayed the start scheduled for 10am.

    Report here – with picture.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/244731/mud-thrown-at-banks-at-start-of-trial

    Update – more details in this Herald report

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11257550

    Apparently an elderly man who objected to something Banks said in 1997.

    Penny Bright was there and witnessed the incident.

    • ianmac 15.1

      A stupid action to throw a bucket of mud like that. The thrower is an idiot.

      • The Al1en 15.1.1

        An idiot maybe, but like the yob that punched Caphill outside the court, a little satisfying none the less.

      • Tracey 15.1.2

        or an action to make sure the banks appearance is reported well? the herald didnt have a

        heres the story so far article

      • Draco T Bastard 15.1.3

        Yep, should have waited till after the trial.

  16. Tracey 16

    an older member of society chucked a bucket of dirt over that nice mr banks on his way into his hearing this morning.

    despite their coverage of mr brown, neith stuff nor the herald feature mr banks day in court as a major headline.

  17. dv 17

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-16/where-worlds-unsold-cars-go-die

    ‘Houston…We have a problem!…Nobody is buying brand new cars anymore! Well they are, but not on the scale they once were. Millions of brand new unsold cars are just sitting redundant on runways and car parks around the world. There, they stay, slowly deteriorating without being maintained.

    There photos of huge car parks full of unsold cars.

    Something is broken in the system.

    • ianmac 17.1

      Mmm. I will never be able to buy a car new. Have different priorities really but what a terrible waste of resources, and they cannot give the cars away to the needy because that would make a bad situation worse.

      • Colonial Viper 17.1.1

        and they cannot give the cars away to the needy because that would make a bad situation worse.

        Give cars away to…the needy? I really can’t follow the logic of that one…how are the “needy” going to pay for fuel, registration and insurance?

  18. tricledrown 18

    Wayne
    How come Abbott govt has increased top tax rate to 47%.To pay a much smaller govt debt than NZ.
    Which scadinavian country has a top tax rate of 60%.
    You have been born with a silver spoon in your mouth and don’t care about anyone but the already well off.
    Party political broadcast no original though or research just another boring yesman.
    Who is trying to undermine the rights of the poor.
    Whenever inequality in economies grows those economies become more unstable ie 1920 to 1929.
    Lead to a long recession followed by the great depression.
    The US will fall over sooner than later with the huge money in US politics the Republicans will most likely regain control of the senate and the nasty policies of austerity will be even harsher bringing the US economy to its knees.

    • Gosman 18.1

      Those nations that underwent austerity (Not the US that’s for sure) have generally come through much better than the nations that attemopted to spend their way out. Witness the difference between France and the Baltic nations.

      • Colonial Viper 18.1.1

        Oh fuck off with your one dimensional, single measure dream stories Gosman.

        • Shrubbery 18.1.1.1

          And doesn’t France, even with ‘austerity’ have a top tax rate that would have Gosman cry into his tea?

          • Gosman 18.1.1.1.1

            France has not undergone austerity. In fact the French have been very vocal in opposing any attempts to introduce these sorts of policies across the Eurozone.

  19. tricledrown 20

    Gosman are you refering to Germany printing billions of €.
    Germany bailing its own industry out plus most of Europe.
    Gos you have no evidence.
    Just more half truths.
    As for Oil equipment you are full of it.
    The US has most of the technology no other country has adequate oil equipment.
    Countries like Russia Iran and venezuela have all had to reduce production because of US sanctions on vital equipment only manufactured in the US.
    Stick that in your Oil pipe and smoke it CIA yesman.

    • Gosman 20.1

      You’re having a laugh. If the US had some sort of monoply on supplies of oil equipment then Russia wouldn’t even contemplate annexing territories from countries surrounding it.

      • Colonial Viper 20.1.1

        US sanctions frequently apply to oil and gas drilling equipment, spares, etc.

        But they will lift said sanctions generously, if your country is willing to let Chevron own all your oil and gas.

  20. tricledrown 21

    Gos can you tell me how long food stamps ie welfare US style have been cut for longterm beneficeries ie for those on food stamps unemployment insurance for more! than 2 years

    • Gosman 21.1

      No idea. What is your point?

      [lprent: You are banned from leaving further comments on my post. If you want to stray way off topic then do so in OpenMike. Trickledown is getting the same warning and a educational site ban for a week for drifting it. ]

  21. tricledrown 22

    Wayne.
    National is and has played hard and fast with research and development.
    Doing a lot of damage.
    Removing grants closing down wool research letting top woolresearch scientists go to South Africa.
    Damaging Invermays world leading genetics research.
    Chopping and changing funding when research needs to be ongoing and steady to achieve results.
    One such funding debacle happened when a certain world class researcher damned the govts lack of action on child poverty he had his research funding withdrawn.
    National have barely made research grants back to the levels Michael Cullen had funded.
    Wayne if you haf any independent though you would be highly critical of Nationals shambolic politicized damage it has done to Research.

    [lprent: Off topic – moved to Open Mike. You are banned for a week for doing a diversion way off topic on my post. ]

    • Will@Welly 22.1

      lprent: I can understand you wanting to ban trickledown for not following the thread on your post, but banning from all posts seems extraordinary. I can think of many who should be banned for spreading misinformation, but aren’t. Might I suggest a longer ban on your posts, but not banned from “The Standard” altogether.

  22. Congratulations to Joel Little on a couple of Billboard awards to go with his recent collection and piles of cash.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Lorde-wins-at-Billboard-Awards/tabid/418/articleID/344833/Default.aspx

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Little#Production_and_writing_credits

    Let it be known I’d be happy to share a production credit with him, but unlike Lorde, the song writing plaudits would have to be all my own. As an ‘artist’, personal pride would mean it couldn’t be any other way.

  23. bad12 24

    A media statement from Maori television says that Julian Wilcox will not be seeking the nomination for the Tamaki-Makaurau seat in the September election,

    The seat has i would suggest now become a lot more marginal and could be won by any of Labour/Mana/Greens/Maori Party candidates…

  24. greywarbler 25

    Roy referred to empathy on the Inequality lectures thread and gave a link about it which I question as to effectiveness. I thought I had better put my comment here.
    Roy 6.7.1.2.1
    19 May 2014 at 3:18 pm
    Empathy, like most things, is both genotype (nature) and environment (nurture). Clean_power drew the short straw on one or both.
    http://sites.bu.edu/ombs/2010/07/24/all-about-empathy/

    The research seems open to interpretation. There is another well known study where people were put in charge of a learning program to encourage people to think and give correct answers on a subject. The idea was that they were to receive a slight electric shock that would encourage better results but eventually punish those who consistently failed. There were noises of distress when the buttons were pushed which became louder as the intensity of the shock rose.

    People were willing to continue even when getting to a strong shock. They had supervisors whose task was to browbeat them to continue. I don’t know why they couldn’t walk away from the test, whether they were being paid, or it was implied that they would be failures themselves, and no-one else was leaving.

    Empathy didn’t win here. And some sort of mind control or group think kept the testers at their post. I don’t believe that empathy is something people are born with. Babies have to be communicated with at a level that suits their brains and abilities to gradually learn. And parents have to constantly remember their child is very young and helpless to recover from impatience, frustration and anger when the child won’t let the parent sleep, can’t keep food down and so on. It has to be worked at and the horrific cases of abuse are times when empathy has not been present.

    • Colonial Viper 25.1

      Note that electric shock research was done in a highly artificial environment. And you could argue that is exactly what the neolibs and neocons have deliberately done to us – fabricated for us an extremely artificial environment, one which minimises our natural sense of empathy, co-operation and community while augmenting peoples inner drives for selfishness and greed.

      • greywarbler 25.1.1

        Well said CV. You describe the situation as I see it exactly – in an analogous way.

  25. greywarbler 26

    I just heard an Oz reporter say that Abbott had been very courageous in putting this hard budget forward where he raises tax after vowing he wuldn’t do so, and apparently he is saying it is necessary for the good of the economy.

    Julia Gillard no doubt said the same thing when she tried to bring in the enviromental tax. But the media weren’t understanding about her need to front up to do that. Perhaps it suits the media bosses to go along with Abbott’s measures that apparently have cut into much needed welfare just as the economy goes down.

    So Oz suckers, you haven’t learned anything about our economies by watching what we have suffered and getting prepared for down times yourselves. Probably thought you were ever the lucky country. Now you have kicked out Labour and got Monkman in. He’ll have the poor on fasting weekends praying for respite every hour at his religious retreats.

  26. Clemgeopin 27

    I just read an interesting report in the Indian press.

    Criminal cases in high places: Every third newly elected MP has criminal background
    New Delhi, May 18, 2014, (IANS):

    Every third of the newly elected member of the Lok Sabha has a criminal background, an analysis of the disclosures they have made in their affidavits has shown.

    An analysis of 541 of the 543 winning candidates by National Election Watch (NEW) and Association for Democratic Reforms (ADR) shows that 186 or 34 percent newly elected MPs have in their election affidavits disclosed criminal cases against themselves.

    In 2009, 30 percent of the Lok Sabha members had criminal cases. This has now gone up by four percent.

    According to the analysis, a candidate with criminal cases had 13 percent chance of winning in the 2014 Lok Sabha election whereas it was five percent for an aspirant with a clean record.

    Of the 186 new members, 112 (21 percent) have declared serious criminal cases, including those related to murder, attempt to murder, causing communal disharmony, kidnapping, crimes against women etc.

    Party wise, the largest numbers 98 or 35 percent of the 281 winners from the BJP have in their affidavits declared criminal cases against themselves.

    Eight (18 percent) of the 44 winners from the Congress, six (16 percent) of the 37 winners from the AIADMK, 15 (83 percent) of the 18 winners from the Shiv Sena, and seven (21 percent) of the 34 winners fielded by Trinamool Congress also have disclosed criminal cases against themselves.

  27. vto 28

    This is the best news in ages

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10060691/Planning-law-overhaul-stalled

    Fancy putting money ahead of the land we live on, the air we breathe and the water we drink – bloody fools…

    This governments approach to the environment is one of its very worst aspects. Witness what they encourage in Canterbury re dairy and shit. I can’t believe it.

    And they actually stole it – they had to get the jackboots out and physically have people removed from the Environment Canterbury building to enable their own commissars enter and make laws to suit the dairy farmers. It is like something out of Putins Russia, or Ukraine.

    And we think we live in some kind of utopia.

  28. And good news that Ngāi Tahu have pulled out of the Ruataniwha project. There was imo no good reason and plenty of very bad reasons to be involved in that. Thank the Gods that sense has prevailed and i’m not even worried about the manifestation of that sense, just pleased it arrived.

    The Hawke’s Bay’s Ruataniwha Water Storage Scheme has been dealt another blow after the South Island’s Ngai Tahu followed Trustpower in withdrawing from the irrigation project.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11257774

    • vto 29.1

      Yes it is good. Have you been following it? Do you know the reason they pulled the pin? It is written in the linked article and goes to the discussion points up-thread.

      • marty mars 29.1.1

        Well they say this,

        “Ngai Tahu have been looking for a partner with infrastructure expertise as well as an entity already operating in the South Island,” said council chief executive Andrew Newman.

        “Trustpower brought both of those qualities to the table and Ngai Tahu were depending on an investor partner to meet those needs.”

        personally i’d prefer better reasons but there you go.

        Not sure how that relates to your comments upthread.

        • vto 29.1.1.1

          It was simply not going to make enough money .. ” it didn’t meet its risk and return framework.”

          If only the Central Plains Water people would do the same thing but in that case they have got money from ratepayers and taxpayers so, you know, it doesn’t matter …. They have also;

          stolen the water from the people,
          forcibly acquired other people’s homes as a “Requiring Authority”,
          had this government trample on national parks (Rakaia Water Conservation Orders),
          Got elderly ratepayers to loan them money for feasibility studies and initial funding,
          Had power companies sold so this government can give them the rest of the money.
          Removed democracy from the people of Canterbury

          If the CPW was so good as an investment then why can’t the farmers raise the money themselves? Why do they have to get elderly ratepayers to do it? It isn’t even that much – about $400million (put into context, there are countless private projects in Chch rebuild which are $50-200million – it aint that much).

          What it is is greed again. Greed greed greed. These farmers which are receiving all of the above public largesse are going to see their farms double triple quadruple in value as a result.

          The scale of the dupe is mind-boggling.

          And don’t ever try pointing any of this out to the farmers, oh no … harrumph, snort, storm off …. we should all be grateful, we should ….

          especially the elderly ratepayers who are funding them (and having their drinking water supplies sullied with cow shit as the icing on the cake …. ).

          unbelievable

  29. Draco T Bastard 30

    Just found this page which had this video on it:

    Ted Talk on crowd sourced government.

    Which reminded me of a thought I had when the whingers in the Old Auckland City were crying about the council no longer mowing their front lawns. Mowing the verge is part of your civic duty because it’s far cheaper for you to do it than the council. I had a quiet chuckle imagining how much they would be screaming if the expanded ACC had started mowing everyone’s front lawns and the rates had jumped by $1000 per year to cover it.

    Sprawl, it’s damned expensive but so is being an individualistic society.

    • Draco T Bastard 30.1

      And then we have this:

      Cisco sells routers, which aside from storage has got to be the least sexy business in tech. To make them more appealing, and to sell them to new markets before Chinese competitors disrupt Cisco’s existing revenue streams, Cisco wants to turn its routers into hubs for gathering data and making decisions about what to do with it. In Cisco’s vision, its smart routers will never talk to the cloud unless they have to—say, to alert operators to an emergency on a sensor-laden rail car on which one of these routers acts as the nerve center.

  30. joe90 31

    Up and up.

    .

    Britain’s richest people are wealthier than ever before, with a combined fortune of almost £520bn, according to the Sunday Times Rich List.

    The total wealth of the richest 1,000 individuals, couples or families jumped 15% in a year, the survey said.

    […]

    The total figure for the Rich List is equivalent to a third of the UK’s gross domestic product

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27459621

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