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Open mike 19/06/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, June 19th, 2014 - 232 comments
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232 comments on “Open mike 19/06/2014 ”

  1. tc 1

    Granny continues the Nat smear campaign online with trevitt and Bennett parroting 2 themes they will continue with till 20/9, disunity and honesty.

    The staging of this is so obvious and shows how badly serviced the public have become by the MSM who are so far up the Nats butt in running the supplied attack lines.

    What next I wonder from the govt shills and their veiled spin masquerading as journalism.

    • karol 1.1

      Stuff shilling on concert re poll et al.

      They have renewed my motivation to help out with volunteering for the Greens. Only a mass movement of the people can take on this corporate-neoliberal-MSM-wealth supporting dominance in the corridors of power.

      And serious questions need to be asked about the fast tracking of foreign investors. They are not there for the benefit of the large base of kiwis doing it tough just to get by and live a reasonable life. They are not there for the benefit of worthy immigrants on low-middle incomes, who are also often marginalised.

      • Rosie 1.1.1

        karol did you get my reply to you last night on Lynn’s “Is that it?” post, re Tova O’ Brien? A moulded- into -the -shape -of- spin reporter is what you are dealing with.

        For a real analysis of the sham and the media’s role in it, have a listen to Alistair Thompson this morning (post#3 below)

    • Saarbo 1.2

      The real story is “Why has The NZ Herald become so supportive of The National Party”? …I put it down to CGT, most of New Zealand’s useless and lazy rich rich have gained their wealth through Capital Gains on land and buildings…implementing a Capital Gains Tax was never going to be easy. The New Zealand Herald itself has sections devoted to real estate. And of course Banks play a big part in real estate.

    • Paul 1.3

      And Radio New Zealand now a fully fledged member of the right wing corporate media as Espiner salivates over this beat up news

      • Janice 1.3.1

        For the first time in nearly 50 years I am not listening to Morning Report, they even got JK to comment from Washington that it showed Cunliffe wasn’t to be trusted. The hypocrisy was taken with a straight face.

        • infused

          People love a good news story. Simple as that. If it was National in the same position, they’d be shitting on them too.

          It’s all to sell a paper/ads/whatever.

          • Colonial Viper

            Nah, National Radio has taken a clear pro-government editorial line. They never attacked Williamson or Collins in the same way.

          • Draco T Bastard

            It’s not a news story at all – it’s a beat up by the right-wing aligned MSM. And they’re using their platform to attack Cunliffe and influence the election.

        • Chooky

          Morning Report is a bit like having a bowl of dirty brown water thrown over you first thing in the morning….to be avoided…you dont start the morning feeling shiney clean

    • aerobubble 1.4

      Um, wait a moment. Banks resigns. He’s not there any more. And the nations’ major free press rag is running a smear campaign against the opposition leader.

  2. chris73 2


    and this poll was done before all this kerfuffle about Liu…

    • James 2.1

      23% – WOW!

      Thats huge (not in a good way) for you guys.

      After the issues of yesterday – there is a good chance you could end up in the teens. Nobody (even the most RW of RWNJ’s) would have seen Cunners being that unpopular.

      • I will have to go read the thread why National is so scared again to see what I am missing – because at the moment – Im thinking they love the guy.
    • Bill 2.2

      Yeah, so they interviewed ‘at least’ 1000 people. I’m assuming that means they kept going until they got a positive indication from 1000 people. But how many people said they were undecided? There’s no indication of that anywhere. And unless that is factored in, any percentages are shockingly exaggerated and the whole picture horribly distorted..

      Why the fck is it not standard practice to include the undecideds (mostly voters on the left) in calculations pertaining to these polls? I can’t see the relevant numbers for this poll, but in the Herald one, the undecideds accounted for 12.2% while the gap between Greens/Labour and National was only 8% when that was factored in. And National were well short of 50% when that 12.2% was included in calculations.

      • lprent 2.2.1

        apparently you can hover over the poll and it shows undecided. That is a WTF!

        Hint from the dimpost

        • weka

          At 777 out of 1014, that is an increase in undecideds of 5% since last month, and 7% since February.
          (If you hover over the polls, you’ll get the number of decided voters)


          That’s 24%. Any stats people around to say how likely that is to be refelected across the whole population?

          The post itself is grim reading 🙁 That IMP are scaring the horses from Labour to National.

          • Ant

            Time for a change of government sits at 48% v 43%

            Which is interesting if National has 56% support…

          • marty mars

            Yes I found it grim too. Is the IMP really turning voters off labour – I suppose labour going after the same middle voters as the gnats has its downside. If the IMP are taking votes from labour or the greens then that is okay imo – they won’t be this middle and therefore gives both labour and the greens the opportunity to go harder for their declared constituency. It wouldn’t worry me if they both made a dramatic statement or play to distance themselves from the IMP – I hope they do. It is time to set the vacuum cleaner to maximum suck to bring in as many as possible under a left wing government.

          • swordfish

            Well, I didn’t exactly hover to get the Undecided figures. I’ve set out how I obtained them in a comment at 8.1.1 of Stephanie’s The dirtiest election campaign backfires.

  3. Rosie 3

    Very much looking forward to listening to the weekly Scoop report on Radio Active this morning to get Alistair Thompson’s take on the msm media supported Natz smear campaign/beat up against David Cunliffe.

    Most Thursday’s Grant Robertson is in attendance. I hope he is this morning, so he can clear up the media’s propaganda that Cunliffe is going to resign……………….

  4. cunnliffe was good on paul henry last nite..

    ..he will clearly do well in the debates with key..

    • and if this does turn out to be the rightwing in labour trying to white-ant lose the election to regain control of the party in the aftermath..

      ..it will sound their death-knells..

      ..the unions/party-membership will turn on them like rabid dogs..

      ..and will tear them limb from limb..

      (tho’..i don’t think it was an inside job..(even that sly/machiavellian duck wouldn’t be so stupid..

      ..rolling cunnliffe now wd be winning the(ir) battle..and losing the war..

      ..it’s a national smear-number..

      ..and really..it does set a new benchmark for storm-in-a-teacup..

      ..and now cd b a good time for labour to roll out one or two of those giant-killer/seachange-policies they are so keeping under wraps..


      ..it’s time to fight this election on policies..not personalities..)

      • The Lone Haranguer 4.1.1

        Dude, the last thing the Labour Party needs is an opportunity to have, to quote you
        “the unions/party-membership will turn on them like rabid dogs….and will tear them limb from limb..”

        Im from the right so I know that my views count for squat over here, but our country needs an effective opposition – regardless of who is in power.

        Talk of an absolute majority for the Nats is enough to make me vote elsewhere, and till he sold out to the German, my second pick was Hone. The guy had a raw honesty about him that I didnt see in other polys, and yes, I would probably have buggered off to watch the rugby in France too just like he did.

        I may not agree with all he says and I may not agree with all he believes, but Im sure hes good for this country.

        • phillip ure

          haraunger..i’m..i’m..choking up here..!..(as i am sure wd hone..)..

          ..the sincerity/honesty of yr endorsement of harawira is touching..

          ..and you are correct..in yr ‘raw honesty’/’good for the country’ assessment..

          ..i am sooo excited about what harawira/harre/sykes..with a posse behind them..

          ..and the greens locked-in onside..

          ..will be able to achieve..

          ..and i do so hope labour decide to shed the(ir) past..

          ..and to also lock themselves into what is the best hope for nz..

          ..in..oh!..about 30 yrs..?

      • phillip ure 4.1.2

        and i actually don’t see what the issue is about re cunnliffe..about a donation to the labour party when clark was in power..

        ..but of course key has gone on tv claiming liu has donated much more than $15 grand to labour..

        ..and if true..that will damage labour past more than cunnlife..(unless cunnliffes’ fingerprints are on it..)

        ..and if true..that damage could be lasting..firmly confirming the tweedle-dum/tweedle-dee of national/labour..(and them both being in the pocket of vested-interests..)

        ..and cd well lead to a collapse of their vote to greens-internet/mana..

        ..interesting times..

        • The Lone Haranguer

          Philip, you are correct that its a storm in a C cup, and Cunliffe is being hung out to dry, but the real problem is one of perception for the voters.

          And perception becomes reality.

          As you point out, currently, the media isnt too kind to the left, but I do recall a time when they loved Helen Clark and I would have said that they werent too kind to the right.

          It seems that the media love a winner, but are quick to turn on them when the tide is turning. I guess writing for a paper or working for the radio or TV is a kind of job application for a ministerial press secretary.

          • phillip ure

            “..I guess writing for a paper or working for the radio or TV is a kind of job application for a ministerial press secretary…”

            ..for a very large number of them..that is the case..(side-bread-buttered-on etc..) (excuse the non-vegan metaphor..)

          • phillip ure

            “..and I would have said that they werent too kind to the right…”

            ..but they were there when it counted..ie..key’s run..(remember ‘showerheads’/nanny-state..?

            ..and key well and truly got them onside with his tax-cut promises to them..

            ..(and that was the first promise he broke..remember..?..he halved his promised cuts 5 mins after getting into office..)

            • The Lone Haranguer

              But the tide had turned by then.

              So of course the media was wanting to back the new guy who would be dishing out the cabinet jobs that then lead to the press secretary jobs.

              The media were very kind to Clark and her Govt for the first 7.5years. And not so kind for the last 18 months of it. I would bet lamingtons (my favourite betting currency) that if the Nats win in September, that within 18 months the media will have turned on them in a similar fashion.

              Dopey thing was that the food in school tuck shops was actually a very good public health initiative. Any half decent media would have looked at the claimed diabetes risks and then talked to diabetes researchers and supported it.

              But the tide had turned by then.

              • to me..that sneering-accompanied ordering of junk-food/sugar-laden crap-drinks back into the school tuckshops..

                ..to me..

                ..couldn’t be a better synthesis of all that is wrong with key/this govt..

                ..(obesity-epidemic..?..what ‘epidemic’..?.)

                ..and key/national are just promising more of the same..

                ..but with a soupcon of moon-landing-denier craig..

                ..marbling everything..


      • Tautoko Viper 4.1.3

        It could be that the CT are trying to propagate the idea of the ABC rising up to further the idea of Labour in a shambles. They are feeding the Trevetts this line and unfortunately Trotter has picked up on that line.
        This is the time for unity to be shown and the Labour caucus need to spell it out fully to the media that this is a beat up fabricated by the Government with a compliant media. If any member of the Labour caucus is not prepared to speak up for their leader on this issue, then they should resign immediately. Cunliffe has not done anything wrong. The questioning was a set up. The letter was innocuous and the lack of recall was not being used as a lie in the attempt to cover up incriminating behaviour (as in the cases of Key, Collins and Banks) but was a genuine lack of recall.

        Crosby-Textor have decided who is the target. They are now trying to manufacture a “crime”.

        • phillip ure

          and the hypocrisy/surreal-aspects of this peaked this morn..

          ..with judith ‘just-dropping-in-for-a-cuppa’ collins and her po-faced moralising/tutt-tutting all over cunnliffe on tvone breakfast..

          ..talk about a fucken disconnect..

        • Gosman

          I do love a good left wing conspiracy theory.

          • phillip ure

            it’s no theory..gossie..

            ..key admitted this morn he has known of this ‘for weeks’..

            ..it is an organised national party smear…

          • Colonial Viper

            CT is pretty good at their job, gossie, this stuff is right up their street.

            • The Al1en

              I was thinking if CT hadn’t engineered the whole thing, including the double whammy Hone/KDC least trust worthy poll, burning the message of distrust them, trust me, even deeper into the heads of mum and dad NZ, then I might have to get Dr Evil and have ago myself for… … … One million dollars.

              • Tracey

                These people can be trusted though…

                Remember collins and bennetts lies, misleading are covered by the cabinet manuals requiement for “highest ethical standards”but cunliffe should resign and is tricky. This last verdict from no less a comedian than double dipton and renewal of scf guarantee…bill english… But he doesnt need to resign.no siree, not even for pretending chchch rebuild will cost less so he can claim a surplus, or turning a grant into an interest free loan to create a surplus.. And blip has key covered. SO why do the public care if cunliffe is trustworthy if they dont care that the nats are perpetual liars…. It is perception, and who leads the shaping of it?

                Nope, cunliffe needs to resign

                Oh an liu is applying for a discharge without conviction for domestic violence

                • The Al1en

                  Looks game over before it’s even begun, according to msm.
                  I was wanting David, who was good with Campbell, come out swinging about the pm’s insider dealings, but if the tens of, or hundreds of dollars as implied is true, then agree he has to go.
                  I’m a bit disappointed, again if true, that it’s the only egg in the Labour basket gone. Scabs don’t even come into it.

                  • even if there were other past donations..

                    ..that is not down to cunnliffe..

                    ..that is down to the previous labour regime..

                    ..i reckon this is going to backfire on key..

                    ..he is showing himself up as a sleazemaster..

                    ..not a good look for a prime minister..that one..

                  • The Al1en

                    Denied an edit for some reason.

                    Meant to read:

                    Looks game over before it’s even begun, according to msm.
                    I was wanting David, who was good with Campbell, to come out swinging about the pm’s insider dealings with this information, but if the tens of, or hundreds of thousands of dollars as implied are real, then agree he has to go.
                    I’m a bit disappointed, again if true, that it’s the only egg in the Labour basket gone. Scabs don’t even come into it.

        • Tautoko Viper

          Well done, David and the supporting caucus members who front-footed the issue so well this afternoon. This show of unity and strength was just what was needed and puts the ball back in National’s court.

    • Cancerman 4.2

      No where near as good as Shearer who was after him.

      • phillip ure 4.2.1

        i disagree..shearer is too rightwing/status-quo protecting..

        ..he is not an agent for change..

        ..but he will do ok as a minister in his area of expertise..

        ..he was actually on henry last nite..talking iraq..

        ..proving his credentials for that foreign-affairs role..

        ..that..coalition negotiations notwithstanding..should be his post-election..

  5. James Thrace 5

    Stuff’s poll just seems so…. out of whack.

    In any event, it seems to be consistent with the themes that people have, rightly or wrongly, decided their votes upon

    • Labour will raise the retirement age. Not good for us blue collar fellas aye mate!
    • Labour wants us to have less in our pocket each week, with compulsory KiwiSaver, even though there’s no guarantee that money will be there when we retire. You just need to look at the 401K saver schemes in the USA and what happened with them in the GFC – values dropped dramatically. In some cases, by 90%.
    • Labour aren’t that interested in helping us out of Otara into our first home. $450,000 is more money that we’d ever dream of spending on a house
    • Baby bonus – eeeeh. I posit a lot of people would rather have subsidized dental care. Direct quote “My two teenagers have had two teeth out as that was cheaper than getting fillings”.
    • Labour want trucks banned from the inside lane of motorways. What neglible difference will that make?
    • Labour scrapping the registration fees for caravans. Well, wish I had a caravan!

    Yeah, Labour are scraping the barrel when it comes to policy ideas. The biggest one by far is their plan to raise the age of retirement, and compulsory KS without guaranteeing the principal.

    My vote is now firmly for the Greens.

    • Colonial Viper 5.1

      I’d have some enthusiasm for the Greens if they took a position on significantly lowering the 5% MMP threshold (to between 2% and 3%)

      • phillip ure 5.1.1

        perhaps some green lurking around here cd expain why they have not supported such a drop..?

        ..surely short-sighted/self-interest cd not be the reason..?

        ..(as in..we don’t need it any more..and things like an animal-rights party popping up..cd eat into our vote..?

        ..say it isn’t so..!..)

      • Gosman 5.1.2

        Making changes to the electoral system shouldn’t be partisan. By all means campaign for a referendum or a review on the subject but to make specific changes to the system part of your manifesto commitments should be avoided.

        • Colonial Viper

          An appropriate method of doing it is to lay out clearly what you intend to push for in Parliament within your manifesto. Stating that you wish to drop the MMP threshold immediately to 4% or 3.5% as per non-partisan recommendations but that you will take it to a referendum in 2020 on a move to 3% or 2.5%.

          These are moves which will help National gain support parties on the Right so agreement should be reachable.

          • infused

            Why would you want more fringe parties in there?

            • phillip ure

              it’s called ‘democracy’..there..coffee-fiend..

              ..remember how in good old fpp-days..national took power after winning only 39%(?) of the vote..?

              ..a lower threshold gives everyone their voice..

              ..(even if they are moon-landing-doubters/scared-of-chem-trails/think the world is only 10,000 yrs old..)

        • Draco T Bastard

          We had a referendum, we had consultation and the result of that is that the majority of people want the threshold lowered. It’s only National that don’t.

          • Gosman

            Who represent around 45 – 50% of the electorate. A rather significant minority that needs to be brought aboard any plan for changing the electoral system. Labour forgot that the last time they messed with electoral law around campaign finance.

            • Colonial Viper

              Wait Gossie.

              The people in the referendum don’t need to go through a middle man National Party to decide for them.

              They already decided for themselves directly – in the referendum.

            • Draco T Bastard

              Who represent around 45 – 50% of the electorate.

              BS. If only 45% supported keeping MMP then National would have had a referendum within weeks to push the change to their preferred anti-democratic system and that would have been implemented in time for this election.

              Labour forgot that the last time they messed with electoral law around campaign finance.

              A law change that is still pretty much in place as all the media coverage of it was just more right-wing spin.

      • Cancerman 5.1.3

        They should just remove the threshold and have it if you win enough percentage for a seat (1.2% I think but this would change over time) you get a seat. Coat tailing is not the issue. The threshold is the truly anti democratic bit.

        • aerobubble

          I disagree. Anyone can pick up 1% by being a Nazi. The idea behind the threshold was to mirror the effort a MP in a constituent seat had to go to in gaining support. A MP should work both constituent and list, and not be unfairly rewarded. If they make the numbers in the seat then they win the seat. If the make the threshold on the list, then they get extra seats.

          The great sin was ACT got extra list seat while NZF got more votes. That is wrong and Key has done nothing to change the situation. Its bloody stupid politics, since all NZF needs to do is miss the threshold and say Mana get extra list MPs and Key’s name will be dirt to political analysts and ethicists alike. Talk about leaving the barn gate open.

          I mean, Key is a conservative, conservatives have a huge problem understanding that societies change, they progressive, and by not being progressives conservativists can’t fathom how a rule that used to work might now look tired, old and counter productive to their ends.

          But, of course, its worse, Key is the child of the Thatcher revolution and they don’t believe in society. They would never have brought into twitter shares, their just clueless about social movements.

          [lprent: Please resist the temptation towards Godwin’ing the debate. It always pisses me off, especially when heading into elections because it disrupts debate. When I get pissed off I tend to try to pass the feeling on. ]

          • Tracey

            if 1% of the population are “nazi” and can organise a party, campaign and get votes why shouldnt they be heard. To me the problem is if they get more than 1% influence on govt initiatives, as uf and act have. But thats democracy. Better to have extremists in the open where we can see them.

            • phillip ure

              ‘extremists’ like the animal rights party..the a.r.p…

            • Colonial Viper

              A 3-4 MP sized caucus is a productive, capable caucus capable of wielding serious Parliamentary influence and while being eligible for sufficient funding to do major work.

              Hence a threshold of 2.5%, half the current, would be ideal IMO, i.e. the MMP threshold should be halved.

          • Draco T Bastard

            The idea behind the threshold was to mirror the effort a MP in a constituent seat had to go to in gaining support.

            An electorate MP can get into power with far less support than a list MP. That kinda proves you wrong on the effort bit.


            Quite simply, there is no reason for the threshold so why do we have one? The only answer is that it’s there to help keep the incumbents (National and Labour) in power.

            • aerobubble

              No (said in the Brownlee way in the house).

              Look you simply cannot be serious. It easier to pick up votes for a particular issue when you canvas the whole country. Whereas a geographical location is always going to have less of like minded people.

              On the issue of hecklers. Of course if you want democracy to grind to a halt, please let everyone who can get 1% into parliament. I think it is good to have a bar for parties to get over.

              As to the german extermist party, who got into power as a minority party, and then used the disfunction (they likely caused or certianly played up), it would be sensible to remember them and filter out some representatives and their parites.

    • Te Reo Putake 5.2

      James, the truck idea actually works in practice and will help lower congestion in Ak. It’s standard in Europe and makes for better traffic flows, particularly at peak periods. It also contributes to better driver manners, from my experience; a lot less frustration and rage evident.

      • The Lone Haranguer 5.2.1

        How does that work? All I can figure is that the trucks will annoy the snot out of folk over in the fast lane

        • Draco T Bastard

          How would they do that considering that they won’t be in the fast lane?

  6. Jimmie 6

    So a new question arises: Who will be the leader of the opposition come Sept 21?

    Mr Cunliffe or Mr Norman? Co leadership with Ms Turei?

    The way Labour are going this might not just be in the realms of fantasy.

    I see in the Herald they are saying that no one in the Labour caucus wants to replace Cunliffe prior to the election. If this is true and the further revelations about Liu’s donations to Labour come out what then?

    Perhaps if Labour becomes a poisoned vote for lefties maybe the Greens need an influx of support?

    • kenny 6.1

      Perhaps Bill English or Judith Collins.

      • Kiwiri 6.1.1

        Quite likely Stephen Joyce.
        While being away overseas, John Key is asking around for his next job post 20 Sep 2014.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.2

      So, Jimmie, why are the MSM going all out to cut DC down but have pretty much given all the rorting from National a free pass? Considering how far back they gone on DC they should also be bringing up Bill English’s rort of the housing allowance and how National’s rule change is actually costing us more, Richard Worth and Pansy Wong, John Key’s lies about his Tranzrail shares etc, etc.

  7. Paul 7

    Wish I had time to write a fuller post on this.
    The real question that emerges from the Cunliffe story is one the media should be asking
    ‘Cui bono ?’
    The neoliberal establishment has a lot to lose if a genuinely left wing party gets into power.
    So anyone who threatens the elite’s privileged position is savagely attacked.
    The wine box inquiry…Peters
    The discovery of corruption and spying on NZ citizens…. Dotcom
    A Labour leader elected by the rank and file…Cunliffe.
    An activist who cares about people’s rights in this country and around the world….Minto

    I am sure readers can think of many more smears, attacks and lies on honest citizens attempting to fight the elite’s stranglehold of the country.

    The elite don’t want us to have any say in the running of this country.
    They own it.
    And the own the media, who pump out their propaganda and attack anyone who has the temerity to threaten their position.
    I can’t beat George Carlin’s summary.

    • @ paul..

      ..+ 1..well said/tidily-summarised..

    • Tracey 7.2

      well said.

    • Chooky 7.3

      agreed….the Neolibs are running very scared…the stakes are high …it is the future democracy of New Zealand which is at stake here.

      Key is playing dirty and trying to destroy Cunliffe …shows how scared he is !….Cunliffe is the one who will beat him!…there is no one else for the Labour Party leadership that comes within a bulls roar of Cunliffe ….and I believe that they know this and are behind Cunliffe!

      ( unless there is a fifth column of one or ,at the most, two)…and they should know , if they are there at all, that the eyes of Labour members and the Left are behind Cunliffe ….and are watching!)

    • Draco T Bastard 7.4



  8. North 8


    Do not ever at the end of one decade write a standard form letter to a government department seeking prosaic advice of timeline on a constituent’s lawful application to that department.

    Particularly when at the beginning of the second decade after that it is shown that said constituent has recently paid big bucks to the National Party and enlisted a National Party cabinet minister as personal police liaison officer in matters of domestic violence perpetrated by said constituent.

    Such standard form letter writing is egregious and heavily corrupt – the antithesis of representative parliamentary democracy. It is behaviour heavily punishable by the NZ Herald acting on behalf of the National Party.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.1


      I’d say that it’s absolutely amazing how the MSM have gone gangbusters on this except that it’s not. It’s just showing their absolute double standards and right-wing bias.

  9. Cunliffe seems caught between the rock and the hard place on this. To have to say what he has said below is not good imo

    “…But he issued a warning aimed at anyone considering such a move last night: “I’ve tested directly and through others with a large number of my caucus colleagues that I have the support of my caucus and my party and our affiliates, and that we are driving to the line,” he said on Campbell Live.

    “And in the Labour movement, you know, there are some words we use for strike breakers.”

    and now key can spout his lies and pontificating bullshit

    “Mr Key said that “on a number occasions in his leadership he has come up against the hurdle of trust and he seems to manage to be able to career into the hurdle rather than jump over it.”

    “He is going to have to reconcile his answers to the New Zealand public with the facts and the two of them aren’t matched up.”

    Mr Key also admitted today he’d known for some weeks that Mr Cunliffe had written a letter in support of Mr Liu.


    It is almost impossible for cunliffe to fight off the gnats, their minions and also the short knives from his own team. This is his big test – right here, right now! I wish him well.

    • BM 9.1

      I don’t think Cunliffe coming out and threatening ministers within his own party wasn’t particularly smart, it just demonstrates what a mess labour is in

      Facts are this is not a party no where near ready to govern.

      Questions also have to be asked as to why Cunliffe can’t unite his caucus what are they seeing that the public isn’t.?

      • Tracey 9.1.1

        how many mps have resigned under keys watch? And how many for their behaviour? Afer you have answered then can you answer two questions

        Why is collins still in cabinet
        Why hasnt it hurt national

        • BM

          Collins is still in cabinet because it was a beat up and John Key could empathize with her after getting raked over the coals because of the GSCB/Dotcom bollocks.

          He was lax and got punished for it, Collins was the same and like Key she’ll be sharper and better because of it.

          It never hurt National because people think they’re doing a job job which well and truly overrides this beltway shit that Labour seems to enjoy wallowing in.

          • Tracey

            and there you have the world according to planet key.

          • Tracey

            How do you account for news coverage of this versus, say, the herald leadingwith a story about mrs banks and mrs dotcom on the morning following his guilty verdict, and the eulogising by armstrong and compare it to their len brown coverage.

          • Tracey

            you forgot to answer the first two questions…

          • thatguynz

            You’re a disingenuous twat BM. Does National ever do wrong in your eyes?

    • Ant 9.2

      I can’t remember that second line on Campbell Live.

      Anyway pretty sure caucus can’t roll a leader, they just get to decide if there is a vacancy.

    • Colonial Viper 9.3

      Cunliffe has to swing strongly Left. Labour has to break its Thorndon Bubble habit for paralytic caution and stridently put on it’s brightest red jersey, put forward Labour’s most forward thinking policies for full employment, energy transition and climate change mitigation, with the singular goal of making life purposeful, affordable and enjoyable for far more people and their kids.

      When he was talking up a true red, real red Labour, the party was receiving polling in the mid 30% range without hesitation.

      If he stays in the 3rd way centre ground of NZ politics he will keep getting smashed from both sides and core Labour support will go “meh”. The MSM have pulled Labour off the main game – scoring goals in the hearts and minds of NZers…and instead wrapped Cunliffe up in the drama of arguments with a biased referee over minor technical infringements that the crowd gives not one damn about.

      Get out there and play the game for your own fans, not for the fans of the bloody other side! It’s a mere ~92 minutes (days) till the whistle blows.

      The internal right wing of the Labour Party will also fall into line once that polling hits 35% and they hear the crowd cheering and chanting the entire team on from the stands.

      • BM 9.3.1

        Fucking hell, you’re completely delusional.

        The socialist hell hole that is Dunedin is NOT a reflection of the rest of NZ, I think is is where you may be going badly wrong.

        • Colonial Viper

          See, my point exactly. The more fucked off you are with this approach, the better it is. Thanks for taste testing.

          • Kiwiri

            “Fucking hell, you’re completely delusional … I think is [sic] is where you may be going badly wrong.”

            That translates to:

            Darn, please do not move left for the sake of ensuring a win for Nats.

        • geoff

          So dunedin should be more like Auckland, where you can’t afford a house and the places where you can afford a house you cant afford the petrol to drive to work.
          yeah good one

          • BM

            No I’m saying Dunedin is socialist through and through and just isn’t reflective of NZ.
            I just had a look on wikipedia, there has only been one time since the 1930’s that National has won a Dunedin seat.

            Facts are though most people are doing ok, which is why National is polling over 50% support, the vast majority of people do NOT want some 180 degree turn in the way the country is run.

            The only way Labour will win is

            1) They can demonstrate that they have the ability to run the country better than national without wavering too much from the status quo.

            2)National self destructs.

            They will not win by being radical.

            • weka

              Your theory conveniently omits the people not voting. But even if you are right, you are only right for 50%. You can’t claim that most people are doing ok, unless what you really mean is roughly half the country is doing ok. What about the rest?

              • BM

                Just because some one votes greens or labour doesn’t mean they’re poor and living on struggle street.

                I doubt if 20% of the other 45% of non national voters want the change that CV is describing.

                The vast majority of people just want a center focused government with either a right or left flavor.
                Most aren’t particularly bothered which one it is.

                Just look at Helen Clark she wasn’t some hard left communist which is why she was popular and John Key isn’t some hard right capitalist which is why he is popular.

                It’s not hard to work out where the votes are.

                • Tracey

                  how do you account for a poll saying more people want a change of govt than dont. The electorate isnt as black and white as you are assuming.

            • Colonial Viper

              They will not win by being radical.

              Sure they will. Why? Because the status quo is failing for too many people.

              • The problem is that if you look at the Fairfax poll, 63.1% said they think NZ is on the right track, and just 35.4 says it’s on the wrong track (1.5% people not knowing).

                Those numbers are almost precisely the reverse of what’s encountered in the United States and Europe – where radicalism has a genuinely happy hunting ground.

                Now, you might think this is an outlier and you’re probably right – though not to an extent that would make a material difference. But given the respondents are screened for age, gender, ethnicity and geography, I think there is more than a chance that most people just don’t feel disillusiioned or disenfranchised with our politics.

                • Which is not to say it’s entirely rational for people to feel that way. You could chalk it up to “false consciousness” or “bread and circuses” if you’re that way inclined. However, it’s assuredly a problem for anyone counselling a radical course of action, I think.

      • Chooky 9.3.2

        +100 CV

    • Draco T Bastard 9.4

      John Key lies and the NZHerald report it as truth. DC tells the truth and the NZHerald report it as lies.

  10. Adrian 10

    If the Labour Party can’t find the 15k alleged to have been paid by Liu ( if it had happened in my LEC we would have a record even if it was in an auction, shit we even have a record of a multiple thousands donation that was was refused because the offering industrialist is an arsehole ),then some questions arise.
    Who thinks they knew about it?
    Is it a complete fabrication?
    Who told the Herald where to look?
    Why didn’t Immigration say “fuck off , we’ve got better things to do with our time?
    Was the letter leaked by someone in Immigration?
    Who coordinated the ambush of questions to DC days ago?
    Why now?
    Is some new shit about to hit the fan about Nat/Liu?
    Why the distraction while Key is in the US?
    Can anybody else smell something here?

    • infused 10.1

      Nope. Seems like the left are trying to find an excuse though.

    • Ennui 10.2

      All good questions. Given that this is over 10 years old you have to ask who the source is, and whats in it for them?

      On the note of not remembering, I meet heaps of people on a one off basis, I cant recall half of them after a few years. If David can do better, good on him, that to me is superman territory.

      • grumpy 10.2.1

        I think you will find it’s Liu himself hitting back at Labour for dragging his name through the dirt with attacks against National. He has access to his file and he certainly knows every cent he gave Labour. Expect more revelations.
        Glass houses – stones?

        • lprent

          Which then leads to the question about multi-millionaires directly interfering in our politics from Bob Jones, Gibbs, Crazy Colin Craig, DotCom to Liu. Not to mention a few other handfuls more.

        • bad12

          grumpy, on my wireless just now, RadioNZ National news, Slippery the Prime Minister is quoted as saying He ”believes” that the amount donated by Liu to Labour was far far more than 15 grand,

          100’s of thousands have apparently been bandied about by the PM spreading malicious gossip all the way from the US, when pressed tho on ”actual facts” the Slippery one simply shut it, refusing to answer,

          This isn’t Liu having a go at Labour, this is an orchestrated smear campaign lead from the 9th floor of the Beehive based solely, as a fact, on an 11 year old letter that David Cunliffe failed to remember signing,(can you remember a specific comment you wrote 11 years ago)…

        • McFlock

          sucks to be a party donor getting special benefits from cabinet ministers when there’s an active opposition calling shenanigans on it, eh?

          If Liu’s trying a KDC, I’m a bit surprised he hasn’t actually provided proof of payment yet. Really, all we have so far is the herald blowing the trumpet of an ejaculating cetacean.

          When Key equivocates about “rumours” rather than following his usual MO of an outright lie, I’m suspicious about whether the claims are completely fabricated.

    • ianmac 10.3

      So far no one has evidence of the $15,000 donation. So who is the accuser and based on what?

      The MSM has constantly said that Mr Cunliffe met and wrote the letter. DC says he cannot recall meeting the man. Could he have had the letter written and signed it without meeting the man? Yes. Happens all the time.
      Is some new shit about to hit the fan about Nat/Liu?
      My guess is that someone will wait a day or so then produce a photo showing DC and Liu both in shot. Even shaking hands somewhere but this does not constitute a meeting as in discussion. It will be twisted to try and make DC seem dishonest.

  11. rawdon christie is a vile-toad..getting his yucks! out/from a homeless person profile..

    ..the man is an odious oink..(even his co-compere was resiling from this latest gob from him..)

  12. Rosie 12

    Ok RWNJ’s – the shows over. You can quit your quivering excitement.

    Grant Robertson has just stated on Radio Active that there is NO COUP. He said he is solely focused on campaigning hard in the next 3 months right up until the election.

    Nothing more than a very calculated attempt to derail Cunliffe on behalf of the Natz in conjunction with the msm media.

    Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

    • infused 12.1

      Oh, ok then.

    • Rosie 12.2

      Futhermore, after Grant hung up the phone and Alistair Thompson continued talking with the DJ they determined that what Grant said was for real and very clear with Alistair making the point that theres no way they the caucus would take such a risk prior to an election.

      He also said to expect a few more days of attacks against David Cunliffe before it died down.

    • bad12 12.3

      Grant isn’t stupid, no matter how ambitious He is, rolling the leader of any political party this close to an election has been shown to produce the same or worse result at the ballot box…

    • Chooky 12.4

      agreed Rosie…i dont detect any coup….this has John Key and his bottom drawer written all over it ….He is New Zealand’s very own John Edgar Hoover….dirty little spy!


      • Rosie 12.4.1

        I reckon the reporters in the media that have been promoting this line should really be taken to task for spreading BS and they should offer an apology for being a bunch of one eyed tr**ls. Alastair Thompsons view was that the press gallery had just got over “excited and agitated about it.” Maybe too excited to let the facts get in the way of a good bit of spin.

        Was disappointed that even John Campbell kind of fell for it and tried to read into ‘that letter’ messages that weren’t there. Good on Cunliffe for remaining calm, firm and articulate during that interview even though you could tell he was really pissed off.

        He just has to be our next PM. Grant Robertson’s prediction of the future under a third term of National was dire: “If you think the last six years have been bad, another three gives them the opportunity (words to that effect) to finish the job. Everything will be privatised”.

        • Chooky


          • Rosie

            Hey Chooky, gotta say, when I read The Standard and I see Chooky has left her +100 mark dotted all over the pages it makes me smile. I love your positivity. 😀

            • Chooky

              yes ..it means I am 100% for this…or in agreement with this!

              ( I note some people go 101% or +1,000 or more when they get very enthusiastic …but +100 suits me fine!)

              btw …i kind of live in a NAT stronghold area …so this adds to my enthusiasm here… rest of the time I am a quiet little chooky, under cover…i think there are quite a few of us around the country!

  13. Colonial Viper 13

    ISIS Sunni insurgency issues regular annual investment reports (!)

    Apparently to attract new donors, supporters and to demonstrate to funders that monies are being used “productively.” Numbers of suicide attacks, assassinations, etc for the last 12 months clearly laid out.

    Who says that the corporate west isn’t teaching the Middle East anything useful?

    More seriously, this group has serious organisation, internal structures and funding.


    • Tracey 13.1

      You reallyshould have seen the daily report last night on

      The usa talking to
      Saudi arabi

      Over iraq

      • Colonial Viper 13.1.1

        Russia and China now making no attempt to hide their moves away from dependency on the USD. As the USD becomes less used internationally over the next 10-20 years, the ability of the USA to continue to fund itself via money printing will signficantly diminish.

  14. freedom 14

    “Key revealed today that he was aware some weeks ago of the letter held on file showing Cunliffe had advocated on behalf of Liu.”

    Naturally the reporter did not bother to ask Key how he came to be aware of the letter.

    • Lanthanide 14.1

      You missed the most interesting part of the story where he mentions the rumours that Labour have received hundreds of thousands in donations. That’s the same rumour Barnsley Bill stated yesterday on The Dim Post.

      • freedom 14.1.1

        I deliberately ignored that aspect Lanthanide because donations to political parties in NZ are a corrupt mess and my views on that topic are best summed up by my presentation of the EDRNZ idea to reform donations with a central register.

        Here’s an idea: electoral funding

        eg: When National sells dozens of $5K a head dinner tickets then the restaurant donates the total as a single donation in the restaurant’s name ( and give honours to the restaurant owner) they are in no position to criticise others for not being open about their donations.

      • Draco T Bastard 14.1.2

        I’m pretty sure that there’s rumours going around that National have received millions in donations.

  15. cunnliffe will be on nat-rad shortly/now..

    (hipkins ‘won’t comment’ on the leadership-question..(!)..)

    ..kathryn ryan is just not letting him answer the questions she has asked..

    ..(her usual high-standards..)

    • ryan is working her egg-beater with all the energy/mania of a crack-head chef..

      ..just after a big pipe..

      • Chooky 15.1.1

        @ philip ure

        .Kathryn Ryan asked the hard questions of David Cunliffe and he came up squeaky clean…and very impressive!

        Now all Labour MPs need to do it is bring out the ROTTWEILER and attack the rotten underbelly of John Key and NACT at every opportunity ( where is Trev?) ….and put some very impressive policies on the table.!

        ..NZers NEED strong incentives to vote Labour!

    • Rosie 15.2

      phillip, see my post above at #12. There is no leadership question.

      • phillip ure 15.2.1

        i don’t think there is either..

        ..(i understand trotter has had another attack of the vapours..(bless him..!..eh..?..)..has dropped his knickers..and is claiming it is an ‘inside-job’…meh..!..he clearly hasn’t thought it thru..)

        ..so why couldn’t hipkins..a long-time cunnliffe opponent..why couldn’t he just say that..?

        ..that is all i was noting..just marking his card..

  16. George 16

    A few months ago the Labour leadership was given the opportunity to present themselves to the country as the next government of New Zealand.

    They rejected that.

  17. dimebag russell 17

    the one thing worse than Radio New Zealand banging on about some letter from 11 years ago is them not answering the question of how they came to employ the whining little toad espiner.
    they should answer for that before anything else.

  18. fisiani 18

    With Labour expected to win Kelston,Christchurch Central and Napier how low does the party vote have to go till there are no list MP’s.

    Now when you are faced with looming redundancy and unemployment why sit back and await your fate.
    The Cunliffe is dead man walking.

    • BM 18.1

      I think the chances of Hone being gifted a seat are now slim to none.

      I get the feeling Labours focus will be more on keeping the party alive than winning the election.

      • phillip ure 18.1.1

        hone will win his seat..

        ..annette sykes will win her seat..

        ..the internet/mana coupling will receive a party vote that will leave all the pundits choking on past-predictions..

        ..and the two people who have planned how the labour campaign will roll out..are not fools..

        ..underestimating them will make you the fool..

        ..i am also expecting cunnliffe to take it to key in the debates..

        ..and that labour will roll out some circuit-breaking/attention-grabbing policies..

        ..as cunnliffe noted..their membership has doubled..volunteers have doubled..

        ..and the party is organisationly poised to ‘roll out the vote’..as never before..

        ..national has every reason to be afraid..

        ..dateless/no coalition partners..5% behind in the polls than where they were at this time prior to the last election..

        ..the internet/mana campaign about to roll out..

        ..sucking up all the available oxygen..and more..

        • Rosie

          With you on that view phil. On the contrary to the out of control spin cycle I think the way ahead is more motorway than bush track. Just need a full tank of fuel to floor it.

          (with apologies for the carbon emission creating vehicle theme)

    • dimebag russell 18.2

      too many mushies fis.

    • McFlock 18.3

      Your predictions are so off-kilter that “a few hours” means “four days”.

  19. bad12 19

    There is Fis as much truth and as much intelligence in this particular statement as the rest of what you choose to deliberately publish in your effete efforts at shit-stirring,

    You would i suggest, gain far more traction if you were for instance, to start a ‘book’ taking bets on your ability to remain here commenting right through to the election,

    Even opening a ‘gamble’ on my ability to remain doing the same would have some point to it, as there is NO chance that Labour will engage in a bout of electoral stupidity this close to the election,

    The odds on the former proposition, that is you making it to the election are in my view pretty thin, the latter, my own ability to avoid such a spanking, in comparison to the odds on you, huge…

  20. Does anyone know if there has been a reaction from the Greens to Labour’s woes?

    • ianmac 20.1

      Russell Norman said yesterday that the Greens were concentrating on their own Party efforts.

      • phillip ure 20.1.1

        has norman been asked yet if the greens support a 3% threshold..?

        ..and if not..could he explain why not..?

        • bad12

          Wasn’t exactly overjoyed to hear Russell on the wireless yesterday,(RadionNZ National),saying that while compulsory Kiwisaver aint the Greens policy they will probably be open to a ‘trade’ after the election on something that is,(Green Party policy)…

          • Tracey

            what we know about the greens is unlike ACT, UF! or nzf, they have vowed to not seek policy implementation beyond their voting percentage. On that basis they have to compromise stuff. As a green supporter i am fine with that.

        • Tracey

          why dont you email and ask them. I find them pretty responsive

      • The Al1en 20.1.2

        As a confirmed Green party voter in September, I’m hoping they pitch hard for Labours vote.
        I think it’s there if they want it, and biggest party on the left, or at least a very close second, isn’t out of reach.

        • bad12

          To a certain extent Alien i can see your point if you have dreams of the Green Party at some point in time becoming as big or bigger a political vehicle as the Labour Party,

          In terms of Septembers election tho votes shifting from Labour to Green is simply shuffling the deck chairs,

          The Greens last election did remarkably well in the National safe city seats,particularly the Auckland ones, the Party vote(from Alwyn’s memory Lolz, after laughably doing the research for me), went up by 50% in quite a number of them,

          To keep building upon that success with a sustained effort in the provincial cities i would suggest, in terms of ‘the left’, would far better serve the Green Party in it’s efforts at growth, as it has been shown, should the Green’s secure the vote of youth in those National electorates, a pattern of voting is then started which is likely to continue,

          Labour in my view, and based upon the ‘view’ of current public polling, have about plumbed the depths down to their rock solid Core support, and, should a part of such become fluid and move across to the Green Party, such fluidity is just as likely to see that support flow back again to Labour in the future…

          • Tracey

            the unions presumably get their ampaigning underway soon? They are pretty good at getting their message across which is why the right hates them so much.

            • Colonial Viper

              I understand the unions may be presenting their membership with solid cases for choosing either Labour or Greens. Not just one.

              • Tracey

                good. Its about getting a message across. I have to say helen kelly speaks to message very well, regardless of how little she may be reported.

                It would be great to have her speaking for the left against hooton, if we cant have analysis by i dependents instead

  21. bad12 21

    Backbencher’s, a bit too late for most i should imagine, i had to subject myself last night as i awaited game 2 of Origin to appear on free to air,

    Flavell the Maori Party co-Leader started off sounding like a member, of the human race that is, and, on the other side of the bookend we were treated to Brendan Who touting ”the Independents”(is it even registered as a political vehicle and if not why is it being given oxygen),

    The National party Rep, not sorry But, where are they hiding all these MP’s that i just have no recognition of, Her and Labour’s Jacinda Adhern got a round of applause for pointing out that ‘Hair’ has about as much to do with the ability to learn at any edifice of education as this: 0,

    Ever the deep thinkers Flavell and Brendan Who stuck to the ”We must have rules which you must obey” line, refusing to entertain for a moment the idea that this particular rule has all the logic behind it of being a rule for the sake of having a rule,

    To the point tho, Mrs i didnt get your name and Jacinda both got the loudest applause for their ”ive been thinking” moments where the number of children ”living in poverty” was the kernal of wisdom on display,

    Having spent enough time getting to the point, i propose to make this short, The Policy Jacinda, The Policy, we have heard ad nauseum ”800,000 kids living in poverty”,

    Where is the Party Policy that directly alleviates or even begins to address the issue, the removal of all taxation from the benefits of families with children would be a grand start do you not think….

    • Rosie 21.1

      “Backbencher’s, a bit too late for most i should imagine, i had to subject myself last night as i awaited game 2 of Origin to appear on free to air,”

      It is for me but the good news is that Backbenches is available to watch on http://www.skygo.co.nz. (A tip from Felix) You just need to provide your email and a password. A good option for those nights when theres nothing on TV, which is most of the time.

      • bad12 21.1.1

        Psst, what else of Sky’s programming can we get at from there Rosie, my data cap doesn’t allow me to watch too much of any content from the teevee or ooo-tube without having the brakes turn the machine here into an exercise in frustrating slow-mo,

        (Lolz, we should talk up Wellingtons weather more often, today is even more Summery, the threatened Southerly from last nights forecast seems to have done the disappear)…

        • Rosie

          Sorry, dunno bad, I haven’t looked into the rest of the programming apart from “Making NZ” or whatever it was called – a four part series looking at the building of NZ’s roads, rail, power stations and shipping. That was a good series.

          Have you got $80 per month to splash on uncapped broadband from slingshot (which also includes the land line)?.

          Lolz at Metservice for constantly over stating wintery forecasts. You could get sunburnt out there today!

          • bad12

            Nyet at the moment on the increase in the data cap Rosie, if i decide to get a bigger dose i have to according to the rules of Budgeting,(self imposed),have a lead in time for any major change of at least six months,

            i simply refuse on principle to buy into the ”get a landline too” line that these people try as i have a cell-phone for communicating and the day that the Barons decide to stop robbing people and offer uncapped copper internet for a suitable price, like $50 a month, without the ability to use it as a phone line as well i will start buying off of them,

            For now tho i will stick to my 1 gig off of Woosh and suffer the slow mo…

            • Rosie

              The telco’s in NZ are indeed robbers.

              I pretty much go without a cell so need the land line for one of those rare times I actually speak to someone, who are usually bank workers or medical staff these days, no one interesting. (with absolutely no offence directed at above staff in regard to personality) The interesting people, I meet in person…….no flappy electronic ears that way 🙂

              My “dumb phone” (do you know there is a dumb phone movement, coming out of Europe?), I use for the odd 2 cent text on pre pay and costs me about $20 every three months.

              • @ rosie..

                ..my son is part of the ‘dumb-phone’ movement here..

                • Rosie

                  Good on him! He will retain essential social skills, smile at people, see whats in their eyes, note facial micro expressions and generally engage in all manner of ways that get lost via constant reliance on the (smart) phone.

                  We don’t need to be connected to the net all waking hours do we? Well some might need to but he must see the advantages in not doing so.

                  He will also benefit from not getting stiff neck muscles from all that looking down.

                  Speaking of which better get back out in that sun.

  22. ianmac 22

    Policy? David says they will start rolling out policy at the rate of about 2 per week starting next week.
    The List will probably be published on Sunday afternoon.

  23. Kiwiri 23

    Suggestion for the day, inspired along the lines of one of kooky polls being run on Stuff, can someone on The Standard run a post on “Which is your favourite John Key lie”?

    • Rosie 23.1

      Theres too many Kiwiri! Although my personal fave would have to be “we will not raise GST”, simply because the GST increase has hurt all but a handful of people.

      • Kiwiri 23.1.1

        Ok. How about the plural then – “Which ARE your favourite John Key lieS”?

        Actually, the effort to compile the extensive list has been undertaken by BLiP but it would be an opportunity now to recap by engaging more widely with those who read and comment online.

  24. Ennui 24

    Did anybody body see that lame excuse for a human being Simon Power on Campbell last night? The halfwit who thinks it safe to drill for oil especially in Marine Reserves, who also signed off oil exploration in a Forest Park.

    I am not surprised: what surprises me more is the common support for an administration so bereft and morally bankrupt. Judith Collins….Maurice Williamson…..John Banks….troughers one and all.

    • Rosie 24.1

      Only got to watch the Cunliffe interview last night Ennui. And Simon Power? Not Simon Bridges?

      Simon Bridges makes my innards shrivel with disgust.

    • dimebag russell 24.2

      so how much was his payoff or kickback or brown bag or whatever for all that.

    • Kiwiri 24.3

      Simon …
      You mean the Bridges that are too far to connect with the people of New Zealand?
      Power jumped to the Nats-friendly bank and now has a better mental and career lifestyle.

    • Tracey 24.4

      did he know where the marine reserve is?

    • @ ennui..

      ..simon power is that former natty..

      ..whose political-footnote/marker is his armchair-warrior cry ‘all the way with george bush!’..

      ..at the time that national were jonesing to join in on the original invasion of iraq by shrub jnr/blair..

      ..i think he is ‘in banking’ now..

      ..simon bridges is permanently on the shortlist for the most puke-inducing national party mp..

      ..the current benchmark for snotty/elitist tory-attitudes..(junior division..)

  25. Great open letter by Annette Sykes on facebook

    “An open letter to left leaning voters and uncommitted voters:

    The outcome of this election will impact us all, if we are to believe in the proportional representation model that we have in Aotearoa/New Zealand at present. The worst-case scenario, in my humble opinion, would be that the standing government be returned unilaterally. The best -case scenario would be a coalition of minority parties with a unified cabinet. What we will get it likely something in between.

    I would say this: think locally, and get as many of those in your circle to get interested in voting for the MP that would be the best to represent the interests of your immediate community. Then, think about which party represents your own worldview. Make sure you are currently registered, and all of the eligible members of your circle are reminded of their potential. Vote. Take someone else with you when you do. This is called ‘people power.’ It is what we all really want. HATU”

    I hope we are all doing this.

  26. Te Reo Putake 26

    Headlines you’ll never see in the Herald, No. 94:

    PM Key Writes Off United Future, ACT and the Conservatives.
    Sees no future for potential coalition partners in snub shock.

    Commenting on the poll, Mr Key believed the fact National was polling more strongly was a reflection of the fact that middle New Zealand looked at a very left wing opposition grouping of Labour the Greens, and Mana and was becoming increasingly concerned.

    “The stark reality this election will look like potentially on one side David Cunliffe, Metiria Turei, Russel Norman, Hone Harawira, Laila Harre, Kim Dotcom and on the other side, it’s National.”


  27. Gosman 27

    The reason we liberalised our trade is because free trade provides benefits beyond a merely reciprical arrangement between two trading partners.

    [lprent: Moved to OpenMike as it had nothing to do with the post which didn’t argue against free-trade as all. It was just pointing out the consequences. I was thinking about banning you for a diversion troll. Then I realised you hadn’t read the the post at all. ]

  28. I wonder how this will play out and be used in the campaign – it certainly doesn’t fit the stated gnat agenda.

    Mining industry leaders are in shock over the rejection of an application to mine ironsands from the ocean floor off the coast of southern Taranaki, and one is questioning whether the six month fast-track process administered by the Environmental Protection Authority is too swift for complex mining projects, where changes to plans are often a feature of obtaining consent.

    A decision-making committee (DMC) appointed by the EPA yesterday rejected TransTasman Resources’ bid to mine up to 50 million tonnes of ironsands annually…


    The industry does seem quite shocked by the decision – time to build a bridge.

  29. Colonial Viper 29

    Co-developer of the F-16 Falcon says the new F-35 is a trillion dollar lemon

    The reason – it is a compromised design trying to do too many things at once for too many services inside of a single airframe. Cannot loiter to support troops in the field, poor air combat manoeuvrability, and as a bomber can only carry two large bombs. Stealth features little more than PR hype (a long wavelength WWII style radar system will defeat this stealth technology).

    Best quote – what is the true mission of the F-35: to spend money via Congress into the military industrial complex.


  30. in q-time cunnliffe adroitly turned the attack onto national/key..(over the contradicting statements from key/english..over when they knew about this letter from 2003..)

    ..and kevin hague kicked arse with his studied/evidence-based takedown of bennett over/around child-poverty..

    ..(takeaway-fact:..academic research showing one child dies every week from the effects of poverty..

    ..and i wd add to that the race/racism–breakdown of one in six pakeha children living in poverty..

    ..and one in three maori/pasifika children living in poverty..

    ..one in three..)

    • ianmac 30.1

      Yes phillip. David played that really well @ QT today. No backing off and embarrassing the smug English. Message? National leaking dirty tricks all over it.
      Now Key is hinting from NY of huge money going to Labour from Liu. A smeary thing to do. As David says if you have the evidence show us up front.

  31. thechangeling 31

    Latest Roy Morgan poll:

    Nat 49.5
    Lab 28
    Green 12
    NZF 4
    Mao 1
    Mana 1.5
    Act .5
    Unif 0
    Con 1.5
    inter 1
    Othe 1

    • thechangeling 31.1

      Potential Left block: Lab+Green+NZF+Mana+Int= 46.5
      Potential Right block: National+Cons+Act= 51.5

    • Te Reo Putake 31.2

      But that can’t be right, it shows a 3% drop in support for the Nats. It’s almost like the Herald and Fairfax polls can’t be trusted.


      • ianmac 31.2.1

        Perhaps the Herald and Fairfax didn’t pay a big enough bribe to the Morgan pollsters?
        The Morgan one seems reasonable and from next week policies will start rolling out from Labour- (and the Greens?) Only way is up and at ’em!

        • Tracey

          they wont be paying for imaginary numbers, its the questions asked, tge order they are asked and so forth. Sir humphrey appleby was very clear on how you get the results you want.

          That more people want a change of govt than say they will vote for national is an important outcome, not least cos of how little focus the right bloggers are placing on it.

          I still suspect someone is getting payback over oravida, and you know slater would let himself be used if he could practice some revenge.

          Is it correct that key personally contracts crosby texter? If yes, perhaps its time for him to come clean with how much.

      • bad12 31.2.2

        i should imagine Te Reo, if my reading of Morgan sticks to the pattern that the next one will have National slide again by another 2. whatever %, the one after that, zoom back up again,

        Graph the thing,(Morgan Poll), using two old inches per 5% movement and compress the time-line into a quarter inch between each Morgan poll and see what National’s % of the polling does,

        It all looks like the Rickety Scale did during the worst episodes of the Christchurch earthquakes…

        • Te Reo Putake

          Good points, Bad. One of the reasons I think the RM is the only trustworthy poll is exactly that ‘rickety scale’. Their regular polling, and good systems (landline and mobiles, for starters) means they do pick up the fortnight to fortnight shifts in public opinion. Ok, sometimes the movement is negligible and sometimes its seismic, but RM seem to reflect reality more than the self perpetuating and self serving efforts from the others. They’ve also got their heads around MMP of late and also have graphs showing the left/right blocs, which tell the truer picture of where things are at.

    • Bearded Git 31.3

      My rolling average of the last 5 Roy Morgans has Lab/Gr 41.5% Nats 47.7%

      With IMP now polling 2.5% (3 seats) it’s all on.

      • ianmac 31.3.1

        That is useful thanks Bearded one. Shows consistency at least by Morgan.

      • bad12 31.3.2

        4% for InternetMana at the election with some smart advertising, Probable, 5% unlikely but not impossible,

        Don’t be surprised if 5%+ is the result…

    • swordfish 31.4

      Nats down 3 points on previous RM, combined Lab+Green support up 2.

      Compared to the latest Fairfax-Ipsos released on the same day…

      • Nats fully 7 points below their Fairfax ratings
      • Labour 5 points higher
  32. hoom 32

    Nukes/Nuke power on the agenda again.

    In theory Kerry will not be pushing for Nukes in NZ since he says

    “Some people say ‘God, perish the thought because of what happened in Japan’.”

    Nuclear just shouldn’t be built on an earthquake fault right next to the ocean, Kerry said.

    NZ is all right next to the ocean & on an earthquake fault -> Nukes right out of the question for us. (likewise he should be advocating for Japan to shut down all its Nuke plants)

    But years ago our Electricity generators ruled out Nuke as vastly too expensive anyway so if there is suddenly a push for it, its coming from nutty people who have no clue of the actual costs.

    Chances of Key authorising Nuke ship visits if in power next time?
    I mean, ships hardly ever run into rocks near NZ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Rena & certainly not Navy ships http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Nottingham_%28D91%29, besides if the worst happened we could always tow the bit left after the front fell off out of the Environment & everything will be just fine.

    Edit: also a lie.

    “[The United States navy] hasn’t lost one sailor in more than 70 years of the use of nuclear power, or had one accident on a ship.”

    Not including bombs dropped I count 7 Naval specific accidents, 228 dead Sub crewmen.

    • Colonial Viper 32.1

      Nuclear powered ships are allowed in NZ, just not nuclear weapons. IIRC.

    • joe90 32.2

      They’ve lost a few too.

      The loss of an atom bomb is not as rare an occurrence as one would hope. “The American Defense Department has confirmed the loss of 11 atomic bombs,” says Otfried Nassauer, an expert on nuclear armament and the director of the Berlin Information Center for Transatlantic Security. “It is believed that up to 50 nuclear weapons worldwide were lost during the Cold War.”


      • hoom 32.2.1

        Yep, lots of bombs dropped in the water from planes in that list.
        Not to mention all the testing at Bikini.

        The Nuclear Free legislation prohibits both, I believe.

        Bombs, Powered Ships but also Ships & Planes that may be carrying Nukes.


        The Prime Minister may only grant approval for the entry into the internal waters of New Zealand by foreign warships if the Prime Minister is satisfied that the warships will not be carrying any nuclear explosive device upon their entry into the internal waters of New Zealand.

        The Prime Minister may only grant approval to the landing in New Zealand by any foreign military aircraft if the Prime Minister is satisfied that the foreign military aircraft will not be carrying any nuclear explosive device when it lands in New Zealand.

        Entry into the internal waters of New Zealand by any ship whose propulsion is wholly or partly dependent on nuclear power is prohibited.

        For all their bitching about this policy, the US apparently did provide assurance that their military transport planes flying to Antarctica via CHCH do not carry Nukes.

        Apparently Nuke Tomahawk was retired last year & all other non-strategic Nukes have been retired for some time.
        With only Strategic Nukes ie SLBMs, ICBMs & air-launched Nukes left, about 250 US Navy ships other than the Subs & Carriers comply so could be allowed to visit without any problem.

        Also rarely mentioned is its also our ban on Biological Weapons (but not Chemical Weapons), doesn’t actually ban Nuclear Power stations.

  33. Chooky 33

    While I was grating carrots for the Vegan rissoles…

    An interesting snippet from the Mora programme (incidentally usually full of silly old NACT fools like the silly laughy joker Mr Foxy David Slack who wants a hugely more populated New Zealand( but not in Auckland …just huge new cities sited around in places like Gisborne!)…and he wants this huge new population to come especially from China! …and grandparents from China!…But what is this going to do for the environment and scarce ecological and agricultural resources? …let alone health and education for New Zealanders?…and the crisis in housing?! and ….why doesnt Mr Slack go and live in China himself?…ooops he won’t, because he is setting up a DAVID’S PARTY full of Davids …i kid you NOT…now where is Morrissey?! …no wonder i dont listen to this programme)

    BUT now for the REAL NEWS!!!:

    A journalist following Colin Craig around at a country Field Day ( where incidentally Colin Craig was very popular) ….asked him whether Mr Key was trustworthy and he said “NO!”….My estimation of Mr Craig has gone up!….he also said he could and would work with Labour and the Greens!…..has this man got integrity or what?

    Was I hearing correctly ?….this may be one Christian who has got integrity!…in which case good for him! …and the Left should be friendly …if not woo him!

    • do you live in a very ‘white’ part of nz..?..there..chooky..?

      ..nelson..?..tauranga..?..anywhere in the sth island..?

      • Chooky 33.1.1

        that would be telling Mr Ure…i come from Maori sacred taniwha land

        incidentally although i am a meat eater i found a very tempting Veganish cookbook…

        ‘Healthy Indian Vegetarian Cooking ‘ by Shubhra Ramineni….fully of yummy Indian flatbreads, pickles , chutneys, chillies, spices, curries, salads, drinks( oops lassis and chais..not so vegan) etc….with Indian cuisine I could almost be converted…..at least partially , with many many lapses ….to Veganism…

    • Chooky 33.2

      getting back to David Slack’s setting up of a ‘David’s Party’

      …..will it have the Star of David as its flag?

      ….and as he is so keen on increasing NZ’s population hugely……will he be advocating open immigration for all Davids?

      …in which case God help us!!!!…we dont need that sort of trouble!

  34. Draco T Bastard 34

    Electric bus can be charged in just 15 seconds. Although I suspect it’s probably more of the bus getting a full charge before leaving the station and then getting top up charges at dedicated bus stops. Still, would be far cheaper to install and run this system than trolley buses.

    • Colonial Viper 34.1

      I’m fine with it as long as the batteries last at least 5 years.

      • Draco T Bastard 34.1.1

        Properly looked after they should last ten or more. Of course, no one seems to be able to look after batteries any more.

  35. chris73 35


    • So in the lefts favourite poll Labour is dropping even before this latest kerfuffle…someone explain why Shearer was dumped for Cunliffe?
    • Colonial Viper 35.1

      Because Shearer was a green wet behind the ears backbencher still figuring out the rules of the House and how to look at a camera properly.

      Labour still has a few minor issues though. Like a caucus thinking that the Third Way is still in vogue.

      • chris73 35.1.1

        “Labour still has a few minor issues though”

        • Like its leader, its caucus, getting its message out and working with other parties?
      • Te Reo Putake 35.1.2

        Seriously, CV? I doubt if there’s any Labour MP that would call themselves Blairite these days. A bit turn of the century, isn’t it? I think the problem may be that a few have no idea what they stand for at all.

        I tell you what, while I’m OK with the process of selecting candidates, we probably need to look at term limits and proper succession planning. And if we don’t get over the line this election, the next stage of the rejuvenation of the party better be more direct and meaningful membership say on election policy. Bugger focus groups, we need to crowd source good answers to the issues that matter to Kiwis.

        • geoff

          And if we don’t get over the line this election, the next stage of the rejuvenation of the party better be more direct and meaningful membership say on election policy. Bugger focus groups, we need to crowd source good answers to the issues that matter to Kiwis.

          I like that.

        • Colonial Viper

          Seriously, CV? I doubt if there’s any Labour MP that would call themselves Blairite these days.

          Third Way =! Blairite.

          Like fucking UK Labour, about to cut the benefit to the young unemployed and boasting how many million quid it’ll save. It’s pragamatic centrism which will appeal to the comfortable middle classes don’t you know.

          What is wrong with these bleeding useless Labour Parties world wide.

    • lprent 35.2


      This latest New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll on voting intention was conducted by telephone – both landline and mobile telephone, with a NZ wide cross-section of 845 electors from June 2-15, 2014. Of all electors surveyed 5% (down 0.5%) didn’t name a party.

      So the poll well started after the Harre joined the IMP and had John Banks decision in the early part of the sample period.

      Today’s New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll shows a fall in support for National (49.5%, down 3%) but National are still well ahead of a potential Labour/Greens alliance (40%, up 2%).

      Support for Key’s Coalition partners has fallen slightly with the Maori Party 1% (down 0.5%), Act NZ (0.5%, down 0.5%) and United Future 0% (unchanged).

      Support for the Labour Party is down 1% to 28%, the Greens are up 3% to 12%, New Zealand First is 4% (down 0.5%) and the Mana Party 1.5% (up 1%). Mana Party alliance partners the Internet Party are at 1% (up 0.5%) – a combined 2.5% for the two parties while support for the Conservative Party of NZ is 1.5% (up 0.5%) and support for Independent/ Others is 1% (up 0.5%).

      The expected falling back of National and rise back to normal of the Greens. No real advance by Labour. No particular minor party action.

      I don’t like the long-term trend this year for Labour. However the Nats must be really worried about their disappearing coalition partners and that they can’t capture ALL of their support. They are simply not rising far enough.

      • chris73 35.2.1

        Yes but this poll also won’t have any of the Liu issue for Labour as well so I’m guessing the next roy morgan poll (not even going to bother mentioning every other poll) that comes out will be even worse for Labour

        • lprent

          It will be interesting. However I’m picking that won’t have too much effect on the polls. I think that much of this poll and the last one are still related to the budget in mid-May. So I’d be picking Labour to remain flattish, and the Nats to keep dropping, with a increasing pickup into the undecided and NZF/Green.

          The problem for National with this Liu stuff is that it feeds well into their existing base, but after a few days when people digest it will have little impact on the Labour vote.

          The biggest impact would probably be with the Labours use of the Liu Williamson revelations. However I think that has proven to be a bit of a dog anyway. The main effect has been to make National MPs to feel uncomfortable

      • phillip ure 35.2.2

        mana/internet 2.5%..and they haven’t even started campaigning..


        ..and no poll ratings yet for the a.r.p..?..

        ..the animal-rights-party..?

  36. Draco T Bastard 36

    What Piketty Forgot: The Crisis of Capitalism Isn’t Just about Inequality

    Piketty is right that our political economy favors the growth of inequality, and that inequality in turn poisons our politics. But while we should aspire to create a society that shares its prosperity, we need to address a much bigger gap than the one between rich and poor. We need to address the gap between what’s demanded by our planet and what’s demanded by our economy.

    The big issue, the one that the politicians refuse to address, is that our present use of resources is unsustainable.

  37. geoff 37

    Anyone else see Cunliffe in Question Time?
    He showed some good mongrel spirit!

    • karol 37.1

      You mean this?

      Well, Cunliffe showed he will front foot attacks on him, and not be undermined. As for Bill English talking about Cunliffe’s lack of credibility…. !??!!

      And really claiming Cunliffe deliberately tried to cover up having known Liu….. English and the rest of the right really are stretching credibility.

      • Chooky 37.1.1

        “English and the rest of the right really are stretching credibility”.

        putting it very mildly…..

      • geoff 37.1.2

        Yep that’s it. Cool strategy from DC.

        He knew Blinglish wouldn’t be able to help but mention the Donghua letter and that just widened the scope of the questioning which allowed DC to ask supplementary questions about John Key’s knowledge of said letter, weeks in advance.

        He had the buggers on the hop! Patriarch Brownlee had to jump in quite a few times to help out the dipshit from dipton.

  38. fisiani 38

    Barbeque at Grant Robertson’s 2pm Sunday BYO

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