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Open mike 19/08/2010

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 19th, 2010 - 33 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

It’s open for discussing topics of interest, making announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

Comment on whatever takes your fancy.

The usual good behaviour rules apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

33 comments on “Open mike 19/08/2010 ”

  1. Jenny 1

    Language is a funny thing.

    Yesterday I received a reply to the email I sent Phil Goff, asking, him if he would consider standing with the union leaders at the Fairness at Work rallies and maybe even saying a few words in support.

    Phill replied that though he would be happy to, he wouldn’t be speaking at the Fairness at Work rallies because he hadn’t been “asked”.

    Phill Goff also wrote that the Labour Party’s position is “clearly to oppose” the National Government’s anti-worker legislation.

    As Phill Goff has told us “oppose” is not the same as “overturn” or “repeal”.

    Though the Labour Party “opposed” the rise in GST to 15%. On being pressed on what this actually meant in practice. Phill Goff explained that being “opposed” didn’t mean that on becoming the government, that Labour would reverse the GST rise to 15%.

    This word play just doesn’t seem to get old with our Phill.

    But it may start to pall if repeated to much in public.

    This may explain why Phill has not taken the lead and asked if Labour Party MPs could speak at the Fairness at Work rallies to explain what a Labour Government would do.

    What other reason could there be?

    From: [email deleted –r0b]@parliament.govt.nz
    Subject: RE: A question?
    Date: 18 August 2010 4:37:11 PM

    Dear Jenny

    Thank you for your email.

    I am attending and am happy to speak, but understand that MPs are not
    being invited to.

    Labour’s position is clearly to oppose the National Government’s
    anti-worker legislation.

    Kind regards

    Hon Phil,Goff
    Leader of the Labour Party

    Dinah Okeby
    Private Secretary
    Hon Phil Goff
    Leader of the Opposition

    —–Original Message—–
    From: [[email deleted –r0b]@xtra.co.nz]
    Sent: Friday, 13 August 2010 9:48 p.m.
    To: Phil Goff
    Subject: A question?

    Dear Mr Goff,

    I am writing to you, to ask a question.

    I have heard that you will be in attending one of the Fairness at Work
    rallies on the 21st and 22 of August.

    While you are there, will you, in your role as leader of the Labour
    Party be taking the opportunity to stand on the speakers rostrum with
    the union leaders to show your party’s support for workers rights, and
    maybe even say a few words?

    Thank you,


    • Tigger 1.1


    • Bill 1.2

      If MPs are not being invited to speak, then hey. MP’s don’t speak.

      Good thing. Next step is to get rid of the platforms and the mics.

      I’ve got a brain and I can think. And I’ve got a mouth and I can talk. I’ve also got eyes and ears and so can interact with he person next to me. Even several people at once.

      But when some bugger stands up and drowns out all other communication, and makes all other communication impossible through their use of amplification? Well, I’d rather that no-one was given any opportunity to ‘Do the Mussolini’.

  2. Bored 2

    Spats in ACT, Goff being indecisive yawn yawn. Theres stuff going on outside NZ with megatrends that are very interesting if you like to project future events. Have a look at what our friends the Arabs are up to in Africa and why? http://www.energybulletin.net/node/53850

    It would appear that they have anticipated that ten camels and a few sesame plants are not going to feed a population boom based on oil revenues. Wise move, the consequences of which may not impress the Masai or zebras etc.

    • Janice 2.1

      Interestingly the map did not show New Zealand and the “under the radar” investment in agriculture going on here. With all these foreign countries investing in our food produciton, perhaps we will finish up in a position of going hungry while watching our food go offshore

      • Bored 2.1.1

        Good point Janice, all the more reason why economic sovereignty, local ownership and such issues are of enormous importance well before the type of event you mention. The OIC and our cheerful politicians both Nact and Labour have not quite noticed the lion creeping up from behind.

      • vto 2.1.2

        Janice, that happens already. People go hungry for dairy products because it goes offshore to a person who can pay more than those of us in Otara, Aranui, Hoon Hay, Blackball, Awanui, etc.

        There is something flawed in this current approach.

        • prism

          I remember a book borrowed for a school project on world disasters. These extremely thin black people had been hit by drought in Bengal I think, but the available crops had been sold on contract to the British Army. The contract was being filled, but the people of that place were not. It is too easy for business to grind on and in doing so grind down the unfortunate people who get in the way.

          We have to be concerned about our safety from business predators in NZ as the pollies are always inclined to be double dealers getting elected by the people and then serving the money manipulators and the national economy at a macro level with the micro, where most live, largely ignored.

          • Bored

            Interestingly famine whether man made or natural seems to predicate political events that take legitimacy out of the hands of those in power. For example the French revolution followed a starving populace, the Russian revolutionaries promised land and bread to the populace. What legitimacy would an NZ government have if large sectors of the populace were without food whilst it was exported?

            • prism

              Feeling hungry and needy concentrates one’s mind wonderfully, but doesn’t tend to rational long-term decisions. I hope that we can avoid the extremes – even marching up Queen Street brought out the people haters in the last depression, both state-owned as in police and state-sanctioned as in redneck farmers.

              The scenario usually goes – peaceful demonstration intended, anger arises and there is a breach of behaviour on one side, or there are deliberate acts of violence to protest or by paid provacateurs. Then there is a fight and grievances and resentment and punitive reaction. Blah blah on it goes. And what can dent the complacency and self-centred focus of the rich making the system?

              • Bored

                What dents the complacency of the rich is usually first that the mob destroys their property, then if they dont take notice the mob comes after them. Its a core reason why the rich in the west agreed to a “democratic” system with safety nets, they saw what happened elsewhere. Today the lesson may be somewhat remote from their memory.

  3. Pascal's bookie 3


    “All I really know is that Laws has an overwhelming desire to make me and the world privy to matters we’d rather not visualise.

    He may not need his privacy, but we do.

    Can’t the privacy commissioner do something about it?”

    Rosemary McCleod

  4. john 4

    2008 was the Peak year of Industrialism it’s all downhill from here.Refer Richard Heinberg’s introduction to the paperback edition of his book Peak Everything

    • comedy 4.1

      what just like 2008 was the peak year for climate change ?

      • Bored 4.1.1

        First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win……I think the Mahatma had a better idea of when to be funny, and what is not funny than you might Mr Comic.

        • prism

          Trouble is bored what you win can be a pyrrhic victory. I wonder what education is teaching our kids towards being able to critically analyse what is going on through the fog of emotion and obfuscation (sounds like floor fluff don’t you think).

          And what decision making tools we can use, and practice in the ability to think through and then argue a case looking at it from both or more points of view so we can find a way of meeting other people’s concerns or answering them with hard applied reason.

          And what philosophies about mankind and how we live. Or is it just hard facts and calculations? So that as we sink we can count up the milestones weighing us down and know how far we have gone. Bet Anne Tolley spends less time thinking along these lines than she spends putting on her lipstick every day.

          • Bored

            Prism, you have a point, a bit of thinking might be required that does not attract answers from a Google search. The kids might be sunk, victory will be distant and definitely phyrric.

            One thing I like about humans is that necessity is the mother of invention: when the tools and thinking available come up short we tend to do our best creative work. Children tend to be quite good at this as they often dont have the recieved knowledge or preconceptions to guide their hands. That will be a major advantage in a world where the current thinking has led us to the precipice.

            Also Anne Tolley: I say spend more time putting on the lipstick, it may give her some time to think, and it keeps her out of circulation while she is undertaking this pointles task.

            • prism

              I feel better now. Dosn’t do to get despondent, and the young can be cleverly creative true.

              • prism

                Just sneaking a bit of reading – PD James who writes perceptively about human behaviour. She makes some good points about education and teachers. Her character has forged a career for herself out of the vertical London graffitied and urine-soaked slums.

                The teachers whom she had once in her arrogance despised she now knew had been dedicated, struggling to impose discipline, to cope with large classes and a dozen different languages, to meet competing needs, to tackle the appalling home problems of some of the children and to get them through the examinations which would at least open the door to something better.

      • lprent 4.1.2

        It already looks like 2010 is going to be a bumper year for variance from averages across a whole range of weather across large chunks of the globe. Generally inclined upwards….

        I suspect we’ll find that 2014/15 will bring an interesting peak as the solar cycle peak starts to go down as well. The usual heat buffers are showing strong signs of diminished capacity and it takes very little variation in heat balances to cause ‘interesting’ weather effects in the wrong place. Ask the Russia, China, and Pakistan this year about their minor climatic effect in the wrong place..

        Personally I think that the pace of industrialization won’t stop, but the energy sources are going to have to.

        • Bored

          I blame global warming for the interestingly cold springs we have been getting in Wellington, could be entirely wrong of course. All I know is that it does my tomatoes no good at all. What I can say is that having grown plants for years is that you get sensative to variable seasons, and for the last 5 years or more there has been noticable lack of weather predictability and resultant variation in crops. The same applies to my fishing experiences. All over the place. Not very scientific but based upon empirical experiential evidence.

          I agree with you that the pace of industrialisation will not slow down until the energy levels available go down, we seem to be on a plateau. The signal I am looking for in the media, commentaries, blogs etc is a move to longer term thinking, seeing the past and future as a continuum in which longer term trends and continuities take precedence over the short term variations.

  5. Tigger 5

    Hide was the whistleblower on ex-Nat MP McClay’s fraud.

    Wonder what Todd McClay thinks of that…must be galling have your dad go down because of Rodney’s finger pointing. Not that I don’t agree with the finger pointing – McClay deserves to be hauled over coals – but we all know Rodders only did it to throw light on any perkbusting that didn’t involve him.

  6. vto 6


    Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Sounds pretty seriously flawed to me. Surely mankind has learnt by now that you against the norms of nature at your peril. And this is a biggie against nature. All to satisfy the individual desire for a child by women who have chosen to do other things with their life. It just seems all quite cocked up, so to speak, to me. And self-centred.

    The headlines in a couple or three decades about this will be interesting (and I would guess almost certainly sad for those people who have been brought into the world on such a basis). I thought actors had depth of thought ……………… hang on, no I didn’t.

    • Bored 6.1

      Hey VTO, dont you understand the need to be an “individual” is to have “possessions”. Seems to me the plot mirrors how the marketeers of the current zeit geist (Hollywood) see the world. We are individuals with personnal needs that trump anything involving anothers needs, or that of the collective (a horror concept). And we need to have possessions to prove our individuality, in this case a child. From this we get status, fulfilment and confidence, if we cant display such possessions we fail miserably. By this we prove our conformity (sort of being part of a group that admires from a distance but leaves you alone)…….In the case of this film I suspect comformity will be proven by the garnering of not one, but two highly visible possessions (a child and man)….success. Enjoy.

  7. Tigger 7

    Another great romance goes down in flames. Angelina and Brad? Madonna and that man-child she’s dating? No, Garth George and John Key.

    To be fair, it was sort of one sided. Garth declared his love for John but that Key never came out and declared a similar level of affection. Never mind Garth, you can always catch someone on the rebound. Winston maybe? He’s sharp, that Mr Peters…

  8. felix 8

    Gee, Lockwood sure spends a lot of the house’s time explaining that he doesn’t like wasting the house’s time.

    • Lanthanide 8.1

      I haven’t watched much parliament TV, but I’ve noticed that to. He also says “the house is very noisy today” every time I watch it, so it really makes me wonder if the house ever has some manner of decorum during question time.

  9. Carol 9

    Clare Curran currently talking about the amendment to the employment relations bill, give some examples of unfair dismissal under the 90 days rule.
    The woman sacked, she believes because of her age, but she can’t prove it.
    The worker sacked from a burger bar for asking for a tea break.
    The guy who was employed by a public relations company, then got to the work place to find there was no office for him.

    And Hone spoke for the Maori Party against the amendments, saying they were bad for Maori. He said that after promising the current 90 day rule would be told for Maori & Pasifik people, no figures were gathered on this, but there has been no improvement in employment for Maor and Pasifik people generally.

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