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Open mike 19/08/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 19th, 2013 - 99 comments
Categories: open mike, uncategorized - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

99 comments on “Open mike 19/08/2013 ”

  1. North 1

    Kerre McIvor (Woodham) – ” I couldn’t give a fat rat’s bum if they monitored my house and my life……. “.

    Thanks Kerre. Two out of three ain’t bad I guess.


    It’s called flibbitigibbet journalism. Check out the “likes” in the comments though. Interesting.

    • freedom 1.1

      The comments box sitting near the headline says there are 47 comments. If you go to the comments section at the bottom of the article, there are none published. What gives NZH?

    • vto 1.2

      Kerre McIvor’s opinions are worth about the same as Garry McCormick’s. His performance on the Panel on nat radio last week was appalling. You could literally feel the other panellists cringing at his rants.

      At one point he was ranting “… rah rah rah, I don’t care how much money you throw at it, I don’t care how many reviews are done, I don’t care rah rah rah, if you don’t have the actual government employees then it is all a waste of time.”…

      … then not two minutes later he sets off again in his old jalopy mind… “…rah rah rah I don’t care how many reviews are done, I don’t care how many government employees you’ve got rah rah rah, if you don’t have enough money then it is all a waste of time.”… did you see that? He totally contradicted himself, lost in a rant, spilling his brain tangles for all to see.

      And then there were the slurred words which sounded very much like he had come from a liquid lunch.

      Garry McCormick may be able to raconteur a good story but his mind is shit.

      Just like McIvor here – ignorant and shallow.

      • geoff 1.2.1

        Both McIvor and McCormick have got pickled brains. It is unfortunate that either of them still have a platform.

    • Sable 1.3

      Seems a “Fair Go” in Kerre’s eyes doesn’t extend to the privacy of her fellow New Zealanders.

      Perhaps she should stick to investigating dodgy used car salesmen and seedy tradespeople.

    • Murray Olsen 1.4

      Poor Kerre doesn’t seem very bright. Just another silly teenager in an adult body, hero worshipping the assassin who would be king.

    • millsy 1.5

      Good old Kerre — nice to look at until she opens her mouth — rather like most Tory ladies,

  2. Paul 2

    Kerry McIvor…grow up and learn to become a journalist.
    Learn some history and realise your responsibility as a member of the 4th estate.

    “First they came for the communists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.

    Then they came for the socialists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

    Then they came for me,
    and there was no one left to speak for me.”

    Pastor Martin Niemöller, describing the apathy of German intellectuals following the Nazis’ rise to power and the subsequent purging of their chosen targets, group after group.

    • karol 2.1

      Then they came for the motorists….

      The data sources police will compile to monitor driver behaviour:

      Police national intelligence database

      NZTA data (WOF and registration history, previous owner details)

      Calls into police communications centres (including *555 and 111 calls)

      Calls to 0800 Crimestoppers

      Speed camera notices

      Red light cameras


      Heavy vehicle offence notices

      Stationary vehicle offence notices

      Traffic offence notices

      Written traffic warnings

      Road Watch (complaints reported by the public through the police website or at the station)

      • Greywarbler 2.1.1

        The AOS shoots itself in the foot! No that’s just my colourful loose style of journalism, it really was just that they shot a man lying on the ground handcuffed, just accidental-like.

        Perhaps that’s the way it goes as we cozy up and copy down to that Great Nation of Civilised Society Truth Freedom And all Good things in Democracy – wait for it – dah dah USA…


      • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2

        I don’t have a problem with that at all for a couple of reasons:

        1.) The road is a public space
        2.) A motor vehicle something that can kill when used incorrectly
        3.) What’s being recorded are actual crimes

        • McFlock

          3) except the roadwatch/*555 calls.
          that’s an issue for me – a cop decides to give a ticket rather than a warning based on your record, yet you have no opportunity to even know what some oik has complained about when you’re driving your merry way (let alone as an harassment tool)

          • Draco T Bastard

            Just because a police officer didn’t see it doesn’t declassify it as an actual crime. That said I doubt if citizen calls to the police would be used as part of someones criminal record due to the innocent until proven guilty idea that we have in law.

            Should the police be on the watch for harassment through the *555? Yep
            Should the police ignore those crimes reported by the public? Nope

            yet you have no opportunity to even know what some oik has complained about when you’re driving your merry way (let alone as an harassment tool)

            This bit would seem to address you major point there:

            Some of them require follow-up and others are sort of at the lower end.

            So you will know about those complaints that actually matter and I’m sure that the police* can put in place procedures that will any detect such harassment and harassment itself is a crime.

            * Yes, the police need better oversight

            • McFlock

              It’s the lower-end ones that could be the problem. I’m not talking about someone being fined as a direct result about *555 with no other evidence, I’m talking about the police officer pulling the driver’s record for a subsequent offense and making a judgement call based on possibly bunk information, when the driver might not even know that the complaint had been made.

              • Draco T Bastard

                I suspect that the lower end ones won’t be included in what the police office out on the street sees. I also suspect that the Assistant commissioner was being polite when he said “sort of at the lower end”.

                • McFlock

                  Nice that you “suspect” that. I personally suspect that the officer will get a simple summary tally with minimal data as to extent, and use that to make a call as to whether to warn or use all the law.

              • wtl

                Where this argument falls apart is that you would actually have to do something wrong in front of the police before the ‘judgement call’ (as you put it) comes into play. I’m of the view that if you did do break the law while driving, you can’t really expect the police to let you off with a warning. Sure, if you are lucky, perhaps they will let you off. But you can hardly expect that this should be the default outcome.

                • McFlock

                  If we were talking about 80kph in a school zone, I’d agree.

                  But there are a lot of instances that might be on the line, infraction-wise. If the officer is in a good mood or has better things to do, then a warning is all that’s needed. And recidivist offenders being targeted is a good thing. But mix the database of complaints with automated number recognition, and someone might find themselves being constantly stopped by the police (even just for breath-testing, if the ex-hubby anonymously says “Jim’s always driving drunk”).

                  It’s just the potential for another level of dickishness based purely on unsupported and possibly unsourced data that irks me.

                  • wtl

                    If you are talking about being stopped for no good reason, then I would agree with you.

                    But if you are talking about being ticketed for breaking the law instead of being given a warning, then I don’t. Simple solution: Don’t break the law.

                    • McFlock

                      What about being given a disproportionate penalty for the law you broke?
                      What about ongoing stoppages to see if you might be breaking the law?
                      What about being stopped or ticketed where other people would not have been?

                      Really, you’re recycling the ‘nothing to fear, nothing to hide” argument. And it’s bull – not everything is #FFFFFF or #000000.

                    • Murray Olsen

                      I’ve been stopped plenty of times for no reason at all, generally when riding a motorbike. When I ask why I’ve been stopped, the answer is always “It’s just routine.” One time I was asked, and gave, my occupation, which earned me a punch in the head for lying.

                      It might not happen to you, wtl, but it’s happened to me and plenty of people that I know. You have to be in front, or beside, or behind, the police to be stopped. That is sufficient.

                    • wtl

                      Murray Olsen: The point McFlock was raising was that he/she was unhappy about complaints from the public about driving behaviour being placed in a police database because this would may mean that unsubstantiated complaints from members of the public would lead to increased attention from the police.

                      So are you saying that the police are stopping you because there have been vexatious complaints to the police about your driving/riding?

                      Anyway, as I already said, if such a database led to police stopping drivers without reason then I would oppose such a use of that database. But I am not opposed to the police deciding to issue a fine instead of a warning on the basis of such a database.

                    • muzza

                      In AKL there has been a noticeable ramping up in the random check points, which are conducted under the guise of road safety, such as being breath tested at 11am on a Tuesday.

                      The police are grooming the public into believing they have an expectation to be pulled over, its everywhere, just like the police helicopter which is in the sky 24/7 or near enough!

                      Get used to it, the grid continues to be lowered, yet some, still want to argue for the system, sigh!

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    If the officer is in a good mood or has better things to do, then a warning is all that’s needed.

                    So, you think that if the officer is in a good mood you should get off breaking the law?

                    It’s just the potential for another level of dickishness based purely on unsupported and possibly unsourced data that irks me.

                    Which is why it needs proper procedure and oversight in place but not a reason to avoid doing it. If you’re breaking the law it shouldn’t require that a police officer sees it for it to be reported and recorded.

                    • McFlock

                      So, you think that if the officer is in a good mood you should get off breaking the law?

                      🙄 Not a murder, no.

                      But where an officer has discretionary powers, then yes, I’d like to be treated the same as everyone else regardless of whether somebody I pissed off for whatever reason puts forward a complaint I know nothing about, was never charged or ticketed with, and never had any ability to defend myself against that accusation.

                      If you’re breaking the law it shouldn’t require that a police officer sees it for it to be reported and recorded.</blockquote
                      Actually, I should have the ability to defend myself against any accusation that might be used against me.

        • muzza

          Draco, your trend line is consistent on this at least.

          You’re wrong of course, and like your mistaken belief that the monetary and financial systems are likely to be nationalized.

          Actual crimes – pssssst, piffle!

      • Rogue Trooper 2.1.3

        Post-panopticism , not, pan optimism

    • Sable 2.2

      I’d hardly call Kerre an “intellectual”Paul. More a big mouth with lots of blonde hair….

    • Pasupial 2.3

      @ Paul

      It wasn’t just German apathy, but personal guilt, that Niemöller was addressing with those lines:

      “Niemöller was an anti-communist and supported Hitler’s rise to power at first. But when Hitler insisted on the supremacy of the state over religion, Niemöller became disillusioned. He became the leader of a group of German clergymen opposed to Hitler. In 1937 he was arrested and eventually confined in Sachsenhausen and Dachau”


      Wikipedia also continues after Trade Unionists:

      Then they came for the Jews,
      and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.

      Then they came for the Catholics,
      and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Catholic.

      Then they came for me,
      and there was no one left to speak for me.

  3. Boadicea 3

    Problem solved. The ABCs have appointed a press secretary to win the election. No need for Cunliffe now!
    Jeeeze they are a clever bunch. Key & co should be fearful.
    Let us celebrate the imminent election victory at the party conference in Christchurch.

  4. tracey 4

    Well to prove it will she release recordings of her and her partner having sex? Cos thats what monitors would hear while monitoring her house.

    oh but they wldnt listen to that cos its irrelevant

  5. tracey 5

    Sorry. I think people think they wld know if they are being monitored. People need to stop and think how their life wld change if they thought everything was being recorded

    • vto 5.1

      Everything is being recorded ffs.

      How else do text messages and emails surface so long after an event to assist police or other snoops in investigating that event?

      The default position must assumption of recording. How on earth could you expect anything else?

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1

        How else do text messages and emails surface so long after an event to assist police or other snoops in investigating that event?

        Emails and your browsing history are recorded by your ISP, every text that goes through your cell phone is is recorded by your phone provider. This has been true for years. It seems, though, that people didn’t realise this.

  6. Steve 6

    This is scary.

    On the eve of the GCSB bill vote, a timely reminder of how increasingly despotic our so called democracies are becoming. If given power without strict parameters, authoritary will inevitably abuse it.

    No mention of this on BBC website. As far as I can tell the only other mainstream outlet covering the story is Huffington Post. Sadly intimidation does work.

    • freedom 6.1

      from the same page
      “Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning should not be regarded as whistleblowers as the information they made public did not expose government wrongdoing, the Australian attorney general said.”

      Is he on crack, suffering from a damaged brain or just lying through his teeth?

      p.s. why am I in moderation today? ( [r0b: no reason that I can see – sorry]
      p.p.s. I recently only post from two places, tethered to my phone when at the studio or from the library

      • aj 6.1.1

        From the same page lol


        ‘Australia now bears all the hallmarks of a country where its industrial base has hollowed out. The decision by Ford Australia to close its manufacturing plants at Broadmeadows and Geelong is evidence of what economists call Dutch disease: a natural resource boom drives up the exchange rate and makes all other exports deeply uncompetitive.
        With the outlook for the global economy far less rosy than it was, the mining sector is also cutting back on investment. That has left the economy propped up by the one remaining source of growth – an overvalued real estate market.
        As the economist John Llewellyn has pointed out, household debt in Australia rose sharply in the 1990s and 2000s and now stands at 150% of GDP. Noting that the housing market may already be in bubble territory, he adds: “Depending on a strong pickup in housing as a means to sustain growth and rebalance the economy would therefore appear to be fraught with danger. The risk is of unsustainable boom followed by destabilising bust, with considerable collateral damage to both financial and non-financial private sector balance sheets.’

        • Draco T Bastard

          Depending on a strong pickup in housing as a means to sustain growth and rebalance the economy would therefore appear to be fraught with danger.

          And yet that is exactly Labour’s plan with their Kiwibuild which will increase the money supply by increasing debt and thus will show an improvement in GDP. I’m all for building more homes but Labour’s going about it the wrong way.

          • bad12

            Listened to an ex-Treasury official on Nine to Noon this morning,(sorry forgot His name), who is basically advocating Government builds of housing to address the issues in both Auckland and Christchurch,

            Having watched,listened and read the advice from the NZ Treasury for the past 30 years such advocacy of out-right Socialism emanating form that particular body is to say the least humorous, His most interesting point being that in 30 years 100,000 New Zealand homes have transferred from being ‘homes’ to being ‘rental investments’,

            This particular conversation was ‘supportive’ of Labour’s ‘ownership model’ and ended with host Kathryn Ryan making the promise of addressing ‘social housing’ in some other time frame,

            Social housing in it’s extent and intent was never ‘just’ as a means of housing the ‘poor’, what social housing does every time a new house is added to the stock is remove from the housing equation one small piece of ‘demand’ in that market,

            When social housing houses a person or family there is that much less of a reason for the would be ‘investor’ to want to buy into the housing market,

            Had successive Governments of the past 30 years kept pace with the need for new State rental housing based upon the population growth over this period there would in fact be no ‘crisis of affordability’,

            Based upon population we as a country have 30,000 less State houses than what is required and only when these needed state houses are built will we see demand and prices across all sectors of the housing market whether rental or ownership, stabilize…

      • Sable 6.1.2

        Freedom: Lawyer and Liar, not spelt the same way but certainly sounds the same…

      • Murray Olsen 6.1.3

        He’s just speaking the lines written for him in Washington, and refined via Murdoch. The Australian Labor Party is so scared of saying anything independent since Whitlam that they make Key look like a freedom fighter for a sovereign Aotearoa.

      • muzza 6.1.4

        Don’t forget who the AG’s work for…

        Note, it’s not Oz/NZ , whatever those so called countries actually exist as!

    • joe90 6.3

      Seems Mr Miranda was being used as a mule.

      Mr. Miranda was in Berlin to deliver documents related to Mr. Greenwald’s investigation into government surveillance to Ms. Poitras, Mr. Greenwald said. Ms. Poitras, in turn, gave Mr. Miranda different documents to pass to Mr. Greenwald. Those documents, which were stored on encrypted thumb drives, were confiscated by airport security, Mr. Greenwald said. All of the documents came from the trove of materials provided to the two journalists by Mr. Snowden. The British authorities seized all of his electronic media — including video games, DVDs and data storage devices — and did not return them, Mr. Greenwald said.


  7. freedom 7


    Is it just me or has NZ Immigration forgotten we are a democratic nation with clear long-standing visa protocols that allow for work permits to be applied for once a person is already in the country. Especially if that person has previously visited and/or worked in New Zealand. Granted, there is so much change of late on so many topics, how can any of us be sure of what is what anymore, but this does appear a purely political stance.

    ” You’re not welcome in New Zealand.”
    I wonder on what grounds they make that decision? And there must be clear grounds stated on the record as any traveler has the right to have a decision reviewed by NZ immigration. I somehow doubt a manger’s personal political leanings are written into the act as just cause for refusal of an entry visa. If a higher authority directed the refusal of entry for this traveler, who was it and what are the reasons?

    • Murray Olsen 7.1

      Unfortunately they have the legal grounds to refuse entry to David Rovics, because he had once been refused entry to Canada. However, I think they refused him for political reasons, the decision would have come from higher up, and we should welcome him.

  8. tracey 9

    Yesterday I bumped into a former colleague at bunnings. She has a long background in sales and processing orders. She was made redundant in 2010. Got a job where I worked and didnt make it past the 90 day mark. Everyone was mads redundant at that point.

    the next 12 months she was made redundant from 3 new jobs.

    she then sent applications to major brands. Countdown… mitre 10 and so on.

    after 4 interviews she was offered a casual and minimum wage job with bunnings. She had made over over 60 applications.

    last week she was put on 40 hours on minimum wage.

    to those who say there are jobs out there…

    she has a mortgage and a father with early onset dementia.

    minimum wage casual hours.

    how proud the nats and labour politicians of tge last 30 years must be.

    • vto 9.1

      Yes agreed tracey. Take a bow Roger Douglas, Ruth Richardson, Bill Birch, Jim Bolger, Richard Prebble, Don Brash, Jenny Shipley, Helen Clark, Michael Cullen, Bill English, John Key, Stephen Joyce……..

      fine upstanding New Zealanders who have made things so much very better……


      • Sable 9.1.1

        +1 vto

      • Tracey 9.1.2

        and please don’t forget Michael Bassett, one of the most right wing Labourites masquerading a s a lefty in a long long time…

      • Greywarbler 9.1.3

        They should all be Dames and Knights – they have helped bring back the aristocratic class system to NZ that our people came here to get away from. Naively the colonialists and early pakeha settlers didn’t understand that social advantage wouldn’t be bypassed just because the location had changed. After 1938 it was just in remission, ready to flare up when there was too much difficulty with deciding distribution. Such as should muscle power be paid as much as trained book and maths power as for accountants, when both might work as wharfies and get higher pay. And something else wasn’t factored in, the lack of interest by the commons in continuing the distribution system to others lower on the ladder, when the first and second cohorts had achieved comfort, education, jobs and security.

        I think it was Colonial viper who stated baldly that the new regime can be correctly called Neo feudalism. And I think one of its story lines can be read in John Wyndhams The Day of the Triffids. Only people, once abandoned by government and the smug inward-turning community, who form integrated committed help groups can survive, caring and committed to the group, with some sharing with outsiders but limited by resources, so they need to be practical in planning for sufficiency and direction.

  9. amirite 10

    Is this true?


    Because if it is, then this should be all over the media to again prove the sheer stupidity, avarice and plain meanness of this rotten Tory government.

    • Treetop 10.1

      Sometimes both a pad and a tampon are required. The cheap brands of pads do not give enough cover and absorption for post childbirth and during menopause or for some who have heavy periods.

      It would not surprise me if Bennett’s next move is the brand of product which Winz will permit a person to purchase and the amount of the product.

      • Tracey 10.1.1

        And the expensive brands do not assist those with very heavy periods.

        There is nothing worse than being in a 2 hour meeting or giving a very long presentation and wondering/knowing that your single tampon will not last.

    • Treetop 10.2

      I did not read the 12 replies in the link.

      There is a serious side when the purchase of tampons and pads are considered as being a luxury item.

      Were a female to have miscarried or had an abortion (even though Winz could argue that an abortion was a forseen procedure, a female could argue that they required more pads) the refusal would be so insensitive and it would lack human decency and respect.

      It is not the business of Winz to know why the pads and tampons are required.

    • Rosie 10.3

      If this is true then this is truly horrifying! How much lower can they go?! Those items may cost the same as a luxury item but how can they be excluded from the supermarket card, they are an essential. So unbelievably degrading for the woman who went through this experience. Geez, who have they got as an adviser for the list of approved goods? Alasdair Thompson?

      • grumpy 10.3.1

        Fortunately not true…..just media crying wolf……again

        • millsy

          Where there’s smoke there is fire — there would have been some frantic mouse clicking and button pushing when this came out.

  10. geoff 11

    Opposition parties need to take advantage of John Key’s major weakness, he will do just about anything to stay popular.

    • Lanthanide 11.1

      Which is a very hard weakness to target, because if he’s doing things to be popular, being anti to those things is by default going to be unpopular.

  11. Jackal 12

    Dear The Standard Mods, I realise that telling you how to run your site is frowned upon, but because of the apparent ignoring of my comment yesterday, I think I need to highlight the problem again.

    The Standard currently has the blogsite No Minister in its feed for some unknown reason? This is not a left wing blog by any stretch of the imagination, nor is it a very well known right wing blog.

    Some of the contributors to No Minister are obviously foaming at the mouth right-wingers. Take for instance Adolf Fiinkensein, who wrote on Whale Oil today:

    “……you can join Labour MPs Nanaia Mahuta, Sue Moroney, Carol Beaumont and Moana Mackey.”

    What a terrifying prospect. Four unintelligent, untalented, unlovely and unscrupulous clods.

    Other Adolf Fiinkensein gems include:

    Australians will not vote for a cheat and Labor’s recycled lemon last night demonstrated on prime time live television what a cheat and liar he is.


    On the other hand, National’s Paula Bennet was selected on merit; won her electorate fair and square; and has performed her ministerial duties with skill and panache.

    By having No Minister in your feed, The Standard is promoting such flawed arguments, which frankly doesn’t seem right.

    • wtl 12.1

      I agree with this comment. I raised this issue a week or so ago, but didn’t receive any response.

      Of course, ultimately it is up to those that run The Standard to decide who goes on the feed. Maybe the intent is to provide an extreme example of frothing RWNJs in action?

  12. Greywarbler 13

    I wrote to akismet about all my comments going into moderation and realised it was since I changed to Greywarbler (which I felt forced to do). And I don’t usually login. Their suggestion is that WordPress will put a new name through moderation but they don’t say how long that usually applies for.

    • Rogue Trooper 13.1

      i hea koe i te tangihanga o te riroriro?

      i hea koe i te tangihanga o te riroriro?
      this unifying artform
      more than thirty spokes join at the hub.

      all the trees are stripped bare. Lies seized
      from the Winter Palace
      a vessel where the clay is not fill rooms.

      melodic ramblings, musical, poetic and scenic
      herald springs overture
      the chase and hunt sap the people’s sanity.

      the higher the nest the calmer the weather
      Skuld bearing einherjar departs
      the gradual clarification of resting stillness.

      preparation time to cultivate. descendents
      few native song-birds remained
      as kingdoms rise and kingdoms fall.

      Frame-works of stout material,
      rootlets, grass, Shields
      cobwebs. The gravity of a guest?

      coastal sand-dunes, swamps, mangroves
      leading Robert Acts
      blunt the edges. Gotzen-Dammerung

      pine for farmland, parks and gardens
      demolished New York slums
      voice and echoes conform to each other.

      Five Year life-cycles bound together
      master-pieces of Nibelungen
      To keep on filling not as good as stopping.

      a covered hanging nest, small circular entry
      ‘the hangman’s meta-physics’
      The Way assimilates to the world.

      elongated, tapered, with a trailing beard
      National Labour Relations, 1935
      things flourish then return to their roots.

      wool, strips of bark, beneath a covered porch
      induced fevers to treat insanity
      As understanding spreads can you be innocent?

      hovers in mid-air to glean the inaccessible
      Princess Elsa freed
      Skilled warriors of old were subtle.

      Shining Cuckoo slips into the second clutch
      ‘Oh Absalom, Absalom !
      The talkative reach their wits end, again and again.

      tenderizing catch before a tantalizing swallow
      All Our Yesterdays
      that’s why returning to the root is called stillness.

      “from life’s school of war” the door is open
      they’re standing there
      Acts at random in ignorance of the constant.

      🙂 j.

  13. joe90 15

    Just like the Red Devils MC shenanigans but on a grand scale, who woulda thunk it.

    Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin – not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.

    The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to “recreate” the investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant’s Constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don’t know how an investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources of exculpatory evidence – information that could reveal entrapment, mistakes or biased witnesses.


  14. Draco T Bastard 16

    Illogical Economics

    The cult of economics

    Economics purports to be an objective and purely neutral science. Yet it clearly fails on both counts. It certainly is not an inclusive subject (outsiders are regularly shunned), nor is it a true science in that it rarely provides testable hypotheses. Even more disconcertingly it actually operates as a Trojan Horse for justifying morally reprehensible decisions and outcomes (e.g. the privatisation of public assets, austerity policies that disproportionately affect the poor, tolerating rising income inequality, etc.). It is in fact an illogical and deeply immoral cult acting as a propaganda machine for certain (already) wealthy interests. The fact that it preys on our inbuilt desires and weaknesses to sneak these insidious theories past us, suggests an even greater deviance. We have trusted them with managing vitally important aspects of our society, and they have wholeheartedly abused that trust.

    My bold.

    The simple fact of the matter is that modern economics isn’t economic at all but a theory that helps to cement in the social hierarchy that is destroying our society.

    • aerobubble 16.1

      This morning on NR politic discourse one of the commentators made this absurd claim, that the only people interested, watch Campbell live, were just political junkies. This would explain why not only should we discount what this commentator says, since he’s just a political junkie too, but that we should also ignore the consent construction he was implementing, that ‘only’ those with a political bent are worried ans so watch the Campbells Live poor coverage of the GCSB bill. The art of the neo-fascist is to provide turd blossoms, that pander to the apathetic as being the majority view, without seemingly much hesitation or fore-thought, despite having been gelled in some think tank and filter past a panel or two.

      Or more generally, our modern economics, our politics, even the Eqypt religious snare, its like its all run by the same pattern of coverage. Take Egypt, the military was forced to overthrow the dictator, then it fixed up an election with two odious outcomes, them or the muslim brotherhood. It may have actually worked had not the muslim brotherhood forced the military into a corner over its Israeli peace deal. But just like economic, or politics, or Egypt, what we are seeing generally is the inability of the MSM to call, neo-liberalism, or our rightwing media, or Muslim extremism in its correct historical context, that of popery. Islam is going through a reformation, and the media won’t discuss it, the internet is doing for Islam what the printing press did for the popery. The internet is exposing the similar economic popery and political popery of our fourth estate, they just wont’ kick the faith, they won’t call the threats to democracy, environment, economy, or even to the nation state, the cult that its is popery.

  15. bad12 19

    Lolz, Slippery the Prime Minister on Prime News showing His arrogance and then swishing the Tutu and walking out on media questions over the GCSB legislation,

    First He tries His normal diversion, interrupting the Scoop reporter mid-question and then when the reporter refused to accept being rudely interrupted Slippery does a quick exit stage left,

    The cheerleaders over at the Herald might be all about giving the Slippery little used care salesman an easy ride but other elements of the press corp are definitely going to skewer Him with His own bulls**t…

  16. halfcrown 20

    The latest on the Campbell Live poll on the GCSB Bill. Over 52000 votes cast, far lot more than Key’s snapper poll. Result 89% against the bill.

    Do the honorable thing Dunne vote against it.

    • miravox 20.1

      I never got a reply from Dunne to an email I wrote to ask him where his integrity was in voting for this Bill.

      Strange that.

      • Rhinocrates 20.1.1

        Not at all strange. Perhaps you could suggest that he look down the back of his sofa? That’s where most things turn up.

    • bad12 20.2

      Yes ”more people are interested in the snapper catch limits than the GCSB Legislation” may well prove to be the one large dose of bulls**t too far for Slippery the Prime Minister who’s teflon coating is in danger of being burned off in the heat of debate surrounding the GCSB Legislation…

  17. Salsy 21

    Has anyone else noticed the latest Roy Morgan? I went looking for it last week but the results appear to be there now. July 29th – Aug 11. Nats dropping 7% – The Greens have hit 14%

    Right: 46.5 – Left: 51.5

    Last Month:
    Right 53.5 – Left: 44

    Jeez these polls are volatile..

    • Veutoviper 21.1

      Where did you source this from, Salsy? Googled Roy Morgan and could not find anything and would like to see the full results – eg what was Labour?

        • Veutoviper

          Thanks, BL. Very interesting results – and a big turnaround from the last one. I wonder why there has been nothing in the media?

          • blue leopard

            Yes, I was rather surprised there had been no mention of it in the media (only saw it after reading Salsy’s comment).
            Not surprising really, considering how pro Nat they seem, although not even a mention of it here?

            I didn’t realise that the Roy Morgan was a foreign company. I’m highly suspicious of these polls and discovering the company isn’t NZ doesn’t exactly calm this suspicion.

            ?? why can’t we poll things ourselves??

            • lprent

              Someone usually spots new Roy Morgan polls as they come out and provides a link. They come out about every two weeks rather than the two months that the NZ ones seem to do, so they are the most useful for picking trend changes. Someone will usually write a post when a trend starts showing or maintains for about 4-6 weeks.

              The RM poll has been either the closest or one of the closest of the polls to the actual result for at least the last three elections. FYI: That means, like all of the rest of the polls (but to a lesser extent), that they tend to

              1. Overestimate National a lot
              2. Overestimate the Greens – who are electorally scarred with the enrolled non-vote young
              2. Get Labour close to right within a few percent
              3. Underestimate NZ First – cagey suspicious buggers those NZF voters.

              The teeny parties are well within their margins of error so don’t count for much. The reasons for the polling companies systematic biases can and have been attributed to many things, but it essentially comes down to what the population they are sampling is.

              Since that consists of people with phones (RM has at last started sampling cell phones) who are listed in some way and therefore enjoy wasting time with telemarketers*, this lets out most of the young and the less affluent and those living in the urban environments long afflicted by telemarketers.

              So given those demographics, what do you think will happen? The trick with polls isn’t to get accurate numbers because they have significant sampling errors and it shows up between polls. It is to look at the trends and reference them to previous trends leading up to previous elections. Obviously a poll that comes out every two weeks is far superior to the TV3/TNVZ/NZ Herald/Dompost polls that seem to come out about every two months (except in the weeks leading up to elections)

              So in 2010 at about this time, Morgan was showing ~32% numbers for Labour and ~52% numbers for National. But by the time elections rolled around in 2011 they were closer to the actual results of Labour’s 27%, and National 47%. Percentage went to smaller parties like the Greens and NZF. But most of the 2011 result was due to the massive non-vote of people who’d usually vote Labour. They voted to not vote. Unfortunately I suspect that will be even higher this time.

              * I’ve been off the white pages for 20 years and if a phone company lets loose with my number then they will lose my business.

              • Thanks for the explanation, lprent.
                I hope you are wrong re the non-vote. Hope that if people don’t trust/like Labour they will do the MMP thing and vote for a smaller party!

                • lprent

                  Hope that if people don’t trust/like Labour they will do the MMP thing and vote for a smaller party!

                  Some do. Most seem to treat them as being even more suspect than Labour.

                  The ENV’s (enrolled non-vote) has been steadily rising since the 80’s, but it has really started to accelerate in the last two elections. It seems to be a function of both demographics, especially if people start voting when they are young, and if they feel that the government is of any relevance to their lives.

                  It is severely generational. In my view it seems to be directly related to the bad performances of the government over their first few elections.in their 18-25 period. If they don’t get engaged then into voting, then they never seem to get it strongly. You can literally see a generational waves of non-voters and spasmodic voters who will vote when they think something may change for the better (or they see a fool like Don Brash coming).

          • yeshe

            really .. no mention of it anywhere !

  18. BrucetheMoose 22

    I had hoped to get along, but I was cooking dinner tonight. Guess what we are having. Red Snapper in Grape Leaves with Garlic and Caper Butter.

    8 (4 ounce) fillets red snapper, skin removed

    sea salt and freshly ground black pepper to taste

    16 grape leaves, rinsed and patted dry

    2 tablespoons vegetable oil

    1/4 cup butter

    2 cloves garlic, minced

    1 tablespoon grated lemon zest

    1 tablespoon drained capers

    1 teaspoon lemon juice

    1 tablespoon cooking sherry

    1 tablespoon chopped fresh parsley


    1.Preheat the oven’s broiler.
    2.Season the snapper fillets with sea salt and pepper. Place two grape leaves on a clean surface so that they overlap slightly. Place a fillet in the center. Fold the leaves over the center of the fillet to enclose completely. Brush with oil on the top and bottom to keep the leaves from sticking, and place on a broiler pan. Repeat with the remaining fillets and leaves.
    3.Place the fish under the preheated broiler about 6 inches from the heat source. Broil for 4 minutes per side, turning once, or until fish is opaque.
    4.While the fish is broiling, melt the butter in a small saucepan over medium heat. Stir in the garlic, lemon zest, capers, sherry and parsley. Season with salt and pepper.
    5.To serve, remove the fish packets to a platter, and spoon the sauce over the top.

    [lprent: Off topic – booted to OpenMike. Continue, and you will get booted as well. ]

    • Pasupial 22.1

      @ Bruce tM

      I imagine that you are just as much a waste of space in everyday life as you are here.

    • Rhinocrates 22.2

      Nice recipe, I’ll have to try it – I might use more lemon though the capers and sherry are a nice touch.

  19. Well done to trade me, their mascot Kevin is holding the rainbow flag.

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