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Open mike 19/08/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:25 am, August 19th, 2014 - 164 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

164 comments on “Open mike 19/08/2014 ”

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  1. Paul 1
    19 August 2014 at 6:42 am

    Private Energy companies don’t serve the people.
    They serve wealthy overseas shareholders.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11310769

    • tricledrown 1.1
      19 August 2014 at 7:10 am

      22% increase in profits with declining consumption is in need of investigation!

      • disturbed 1.1.1
        19 August 2014 at 1:03 pm

        Thanks for mentioning this Trickledrown,

        “22% increase in profits with declining consumption is in need of investigation!”

        Our family and community understand this as we are involved in the
        controversial rollout of “Smart meters” the new electronic transmitting meters that are known to cause health problems especially with those who have “electromagnetic sensitivities” ES or EMS sensitivities to electromagnetic fields being created by these meters.

        http://www.stopsmartmeters.org.nz/

        Doing our research we have found that the tariff charges for power is now being changed (as these meter tariffs are unregulated by Gov’t)

        The method is called TOU or (Time of use,) in which minutes are separated and recorded by the computer inside the Smart meter as to the time of use is and that are setting a tariff that is much higher than when the EA/Gov’t has previously set for power charges during the day or night.

        Now the time of use parcels of time say hypothetically cold be in 20 minute intervals would be higher by 300% during peak time of day than 9pm at night.

        So people who use more power during the day will now be desperately trying to turn off their Heat pumps freezers and other high use appliances during the day to lower their monthly bills.

        It is another Key Government ploy to extract the maximum profit from the least investment.

        Hope this helps. We need an investigation into this criminal fleecing of consumers. who must see the real issues here,

        • yeshe 1.1.1.1
          19 August 2014 at 4:59 pm

          I joined Grey Power Power via Pulse and was able to request the successful removal of the smart meter installed here at my house. No charge was applied to me either.

          Don’t think others will do it. I was a Powershop customer until I moved here, but they couldn’t ( or wouldn’t ? ) do it. A Powershop rep told me to call Grey Power Power .. and here I am, a happy customer freed from 24 hour a day microwaves on the wide of my house next to my bedroom.

          I also objected on the grounds it did one more person out of their job as a meter reader.

          • disturbed 1.1.1.1.1
            19 August 2014 at 5:43 pm

            I sell pure mechanical Analogue meters if anyone needs them.

            Most Power companies contactors cant supply them but we can,.

            Some will refuse to use them but we have forced them to accept them now, as our right to own our own meters, so don’t’ take their crap that they are mandatory that is a lie, this is going on under this Government.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.2
          19 August 2014 at 6:03 pm

          Time mind time of day/peak charging but it must be communicated before hand so that people know that it’s happening and they must also know also know how much they’re being charged. The present smart meters don’t do that.

    • Draco T bastard 1.2
      19 August 2014 at 8:09 am

      Yep, ripped off – as everybody knew we would be.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.4
      19 August 2014 at 6:11 pm

      The government will, of course, exclaim that the higher profits is a result of better management and not that we’re being ripped off.

  2. tricledrown 2
    19 August 2014 at 6:48 am

    GCHQ in the UK has the ability to manipulate political landscape !
    The GSCB has the same ability here!
    Key has already shown he is not above using any means to disrupt democracy!
    srylands is one of the GSCB’s plants its so obvious!
    Key has more to answer!

    • tricledrown 2.1
      19 August 2014 at 7:33 am

      So how did Slater find out about politicians visiting Dotcom.
      Key has denied Gscb and SIS but no one asked him if the police passed on info!
      If it was PI’s who paid them!

  3. Paul 3
    19 August 2014 at 6:51 am

    John Key all of a sudden wants to discuss policy.
    Here’s one to discuss then.
    How is he going to solve Christchurch’s housing problems?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/your-property/10358544/Christchurch-housing-reaches-new-record

    Clue :Calling them scum, Mr Key isn’t the answer….

    • felix 3.1
      19 August 2014 at 7:07 am

      As long as Key stands by Slater and Ede, he is calling earthquake victims “scum” , not to mention calling Pike River victims “sluts” and “ferals”.

      And for some reason, it seems he does have to stand by them.

      Whatever they have on Key, it must be something that would make him look worse than having Slater and Ede as mates.

      • kenny 3.1.2
        19 August 2014 at 7:57 am

        He has to stand by them – he has always maintained that Dirty Politics is untrue and is a beat-up from the left. If he didn’t stand by them then he is admitting the book is correct.

        He has a problem.

        But don’t forget; Key lies (he just can’t help it).

        • Tracey 3.1.2.1
          19 August 2014 at 7:59 am

          he doesn’t have a problem with his behaviour. Joyce made it very clear from his first utterance post book release. They think dirty politics is ok.

        • disturbed 3.1.2.2
          19 August 2014 at 11:40 am

          ++10 Now Key is re-inventing McCarthyism.

          We are now all left wing —-next terrorists ? —–Communists?

          The criminal behaviour here should send a chill to anyone wondering what key has in mind now do to the truth unveiled in the Dirty Politics book.

    • Tracey 3.2
      19 August 2014 at 7:58 am

      You will notice that everytime he says NZers care about policy he walks away? Funny that. No real policy Mr key, just upgrading schools and building new schools which any govt has to do over the next few years. Calling it policy. Bah

  4. Paul 4
    19 August 2014 at 6:57 am

    John Key all of a sudden wants to discuss policy.
    Here’s one to discuss then.
    How does he plan to tackle systematic poverty in the country?

    A letter to the Dominion Post yesterday.

    “Child poverty within New Zealand remains a national shame. Low-incomes see New Zealand families always on the brink, one setback away from financial disaster.

    Often these families find themselves resorting to third tier borrowing which traps them in a downward, never-ending cycle of indebtedness, powerlessness and increased poverty.

    The gap between incomes and affordable housing has grown – housing affordability deteriorated by 7.6 per cent in the 12 months ending May 2014.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/letters-to-the-editor/10390390/Child-poverty-a-national-shame

    Clue :Calling them losers, Mr Key, isn’t the answer….

    • crocodill 4.1
      19 August 2014 at 7:25 am

      …suggesting they “made bad decisions” also isn’t the answer. How the hell does a new born child make a “lifestyle choice” to live in poverty. How the hell do they consciously extricate themselves from the influence of their environment and culture. No question marks required on those statements.

      Your topic, Mr.Key, is everything you ignore, your time starts now…

      • disturbed 4.1.1
        19 August 2014 at 11:56 am

        Paul, Dave + Crocc, Child & mother’s care in Key’s world.

        I have in Daughter who lives away from our area, and works to keep her son in Playschool but he got a bug two days ago from Playschool and it is contagious so She (mother had to stay at home and care for his fever and cough.

        Since she hasn’t been there at the job for six months yet, she wont get paid, and now she has contracted the virus off the son so she was forced to drop him at playschool today dosed up the panadol and her with the same and due to financial reasons forced herself to go back to work so she has to pass it o to others and her son too?

        This illustrates the mindless Key government that can’t see the consequences of their actions.

        She cannot get WINS help either so she is sick with a son and forced to work, = Key’s plan for us all.

        • Lloyd 4.1.1.1
          19 August 2014 at 9:00 pm

          Classic example of how mindless sanctions against the poorer parts of society can end up harming the wealthy. A more benign regime would reward behaviour which reduces the spread of disease.

  5. dave 5
    19 August 2014 at 7:03 am

    national/slater have destroyer themselves

  6. Paul 6
    19 August 2014 at 7:22 am

    Susie Ferguson – another disgraceful interview by a supposed public broadcaster.
    Is she able to work beyond smears?
    Waiting to hear her discuss the issues of housing, employment, inequality, the environment,
    Just obsessed about polls and alliances.
    What about informing your audience about the party’s policies and asking difficult questions about that?!

    • tc 6.1
      19 August 2014 at 7:59 am

      Rnz aside from the odd spot of professionalism like espinner yesterday is part of the nact pr machine. Theyve had many morning report combos since griffin was installed to get the mix right.

      • jcuknz 6.1.1
        19 August 2014 at 8:46 am

        That is amusing since many consider RNZ to be a hotbed of left wingers. Reminds me of when I worked for TVNZ News and we were happy when both sides attacked us becuase obviously we were walking down the centre, hard as that is, but of course that was twenty five years ago … today I subscribe first sentance unfortunately.

  7. Colonial Viper 7
    19 August 2014 at 7:29 am

    Seeing Key and co. self destruct is a historic spectacle, especially with MSM players who are slowly realising that they have been complicit in the entire criminal John Key enterprise.

    However none of this makes for a winning strategy for the Left. The election remains on a knife edge. (I don’t count having to cobble together a multi-multi party coalition simply to put together a sliver 2-3 seat majority as a win). We have a few more days of revelling in Key’s political demise – but it doesn’t mean that he won’t be PM again come Sept 20 – or that National won’t be in again come 2017.

    This country’s politics is undergoing a major crisis which is almost constitutional in nature. Now is the moment – the opportunity – for major proposals and reforms to be put forward, by the Left to clean things up.

    Regulations on lobbyists and unofficial spokespeople. On corporate money and campaign financing. On journalistic standards and public broadcasting. On democractic accountability – including within the security services. On cpmprehensive whistleblower, leaker and journalistic protections.

    It’s clear we need broad, brave new measures to safeguard our democracy and to stop US style political rot taking hold in NZ.

    Let’s see some gutsy proposals from the progressive parties to detoxify our politics.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1
      19 August 2014 at 7:52 am

      Well said.

    • Tracey 7.2
      19 August 2014 at 8:01 am

      They may well have some for all we know, the media isn’t focusing on policies and hasnt for a while. Is it a coincidence that only the Left have really been releasing any?

      • Colonial Viper 7.2.1
        19 August 2014 at 8:09 am

        The Right Wing learnt the lesson a century ago via Freud, Bernays etc that through mass media, people are swayed far more by their emotions and their prejudices, than by rational fact and discussion. And they’ve put this understanding into action ever since. At the same time the left has continuously driven down increasingly narrow intellectual over rationalising cul de sacs and become less and less able to connect to and give moral voice to the people really suffering in our society.

        • crocodill 7.2.1.1
          19 August 2014 at 8:19 am

          agreed.

        • Tracey 7.2.1.2
          19 August 2014 at 8:23 am

          Have you read Jaques Ellul : Formation of Men’s Attitudes (about Propaganda)? If you haven’t mind I be so bold as to recommend you do. I think you would “enjoy” it. He wrote during the Cold war, but he could have been talking about now.

      • jcuknz 7.2.2
        19 August 2014 at 8:53 am

        The Left may call them policies but to me they sound more like bribes …. the one policy which would make a huge difference has been ignored for decades and I have no faith that either side will address the matter … ample State Housing for all who need it.

        A warm dry roof over one’s head is the most important aspect of living in an inclement climate.

        • Colonial Viper 7.2.2.1
          19 August 2014 at 10:46 am

          I see your perspective and it makes some sense 🙂

          Government should be about the interests of the people and the fact that narrative has been lost makes everything look like a “bribe”

    • kenny 7.3
      19 August 2014 at 8:01 am

      Agree.

    • Ad 7.4
      19 August 2014 at 8:12 am

      Any thoughts on what those proposals might be?

      • Draco T bastard 7.4.1
        19 August 2014 at 8:17 am

        My suggestion would be that anyone caught acting as described in Dirty Politics never be allowed near government again – ever.

      • Colonial Viper 7.4.2
        19 August 2014 at 8:28 am

        I suggested a few areas of interest above.

        My top ones would be around end to end whistleblower/leaker/journalistic protections in any case where the public interest or democratic interest was at stake.

        Also transparency of not just the funding of political entities but where that money is spent in terms of media advice and media buys.

        Improvement of journalistic/news standards + public broadcasting.

        Increased sanctions for the politicisation of the civil service/intelligence services.

        • ropata 7.4.2.1
          19 August 2014 at 8:36 am

          given the militarisation of the USA and its decline in press freedom (now 40th in the world) we don’t want to follow their example… but do journos have some kind of constitutional protection in NZ already?

          • Colonial Viper 7.4.2.1.1
            19 August 2014 at 8:53 am

            I don’t think so, although the proof for libel is quite high and difficult to reach.

        • gsays 7.4.2.2
          19 August 2014 at 10:13 am

          I would also suggest a transparent lobbyist register/audit.

      • Colonial Viper 7.4.3
        19 August 2014 at 8:54 am

        Also, I would contract in Wikileaks to help build and run a Crown whistleblower site.

    • Draco T bastard 7.5
      19 August 2014 at 8:15 am

      +1

      This country’s politics is undergoing a major crisis which is almost constitutional in nature.

      Not ‘almost’, it is constitutional. What Hager reveals in Dirty politics is an outright undermining of our democracy and we need to have the tools to do something about despicable actions like these when they’re discovered.

      • Tracey 7.5.1
        19 August 2014 at 8:26 am

        They are fiddling the system, that’s what people who succeed in markets the best do. They call it finding loopholes BUT they also manipulate ( in the book there is a bit about manipulating ipredict) and lie and break rules. They rationalise and justify. BUT anyone who thinks that Key made it as far as he did in his chosen business without similar tactics is mad, or as slylands likes to say needs to stop being stupid all their life. And he clearly hasnt set aside those strategies since becoming PM.

        The market failed the people, and now the market has disenfranchised the people.

      • yeshe 7.5.2
        19 August 2014 at 10:38 am

        I agree, it is constitutional. And who is final refuge for us ? The Governor General. And let’s recall, Jerry Mateparae was removed as head of GCSB to be replaced by Key’s ‘can’t-remember-him’ buddy Fletcher. His ‘reward’ was to become GG. And it remains to be seen if Key and his $$ masters own him. Be an interesting struggle I think, as Mateparae has previously seemed to be a man of great personal integrity.

        Having watched all those years ago as Watergate unravelled from a single loose stitch at the bottom to the very top of the Republican knitting, maybe a major constitutional crisis is brewing here.

        We will be counting on you Jerry. Can we ?

        • Hami Shearlie 7.5.2.1
          19 August 2014 at 11:44 am

          We’ve been considering the actions that the GG might take too, yeshe! What would it take for him to act, is he impartial, many, many things to ponder at the moment – The information is coming so thick and fast, it’s hard to know which murky pond to gaze upon next! What kind of creatures will we see emerging, who are their National party buddies and what nefarious enterprizes have they been involved in? Been wondering too, how good old Queen Lillibet is feeling these days? Think there will be any more invitations to Balmoral?

      • Olwyn 7.5.3
        19 August 2014 at 11:13 am

        That is my fear: That just as Douglas radically changed the basis of the NZ economy, so Key is dismantling the constraints associated with political office, and turning the PM role into something more akin to a branch manager. He is one of the “leaders from central casting” that began to pop up in the Western world in the mid 2000’s.

        Ad says, on the “Will the real National Party Please Stand up” thread, Nicky is merely holding a small mirror to New Zealand society on the morality of the Washington Consensus. By and large New Zealand voters chose this over several decades with their Faustian eyes wide open.

        There are four main elements of concern that come up in the book, quite apart from the malignancy the main players: (1) The misuse of privileged information, (2) The theft of opposition information, with a view to giving them grief, (3) The use of this malignant group as a sort of news filter, so that anyone who wanted to meet deadlines,etc, had to pass through WO’s slanted interpretations, and (4) The group’s making use of any information they could get their hands on to bend others to their will.

        I would like to be able to fathom how much of this is a deliberate attempt to irrevocably shift the political compass, and how much of it is simply rogue elements, living in a fantasy world, enjoying unbridled license under a PM who is “not a politician.”

        • karol 7.5.3.1
          19 August 2014 at 11:30 am

          I would like to be able to fathom how much of this is a deliberate attempt to irrevocably shift the political compass, and how much of it is simply rogue elements, living in a fantasy world, enjoying unbridled license under a PM who is “not a politician.”

          Well, it seems to me to be a bit of both. The hackers refer to it as a “network”. By definition that is a complex of inter-relationships, rather than a centrally organised conspiracy. networks are also more flexible, less clearly defined, and rely a lot on personal connections and associations, albeit that they also link into associations with organisations and institutions.

          I have done a few posts on Key’s “networks of influence” – these include a range of contacts and associations he nurtures – ones that Key can draw on when and as situations arise. My posts focused on the networks of powerful corporate and political players. In my nativity, I failed to included the kinds of underground networks that Slater et al play with and draw on: prostitutes, etc.

          Suddenly, I have an idea for a future “networks of influence” post.

          • Olwyn 7.5.3.1.1
            19 August 2014 at 11:41 am

            Yes, those underground networks are important, because they are able to do great damage to people. I think you are probably right about “the bit of both.” What is important is that the rogue elements are not working against the preferred direction, but are in general seen to be helping to achieve it, if indirectly.

            NZ is a young country, and I think its population by and large have a limited conception of what a civic society is, just a vague sense of “decent people like me meeting my standards of decency.” If they vote Key in again, after all that has been revealed, I will be very frightened for this country.

        • disturbed 7.5.3.2
          19 August 2014 at 1:14 pm

          Olwyn

          Yes Key wanted to clear all moderate politician’s out as you saw post dissolving of parliament last month.

          He is running a campaign as you quote is similar to Hitler’s grip on power in 1933 till the war.

          We are very disturbed.

          • Olwyn 7.5.3.2.1
            19 August 2014 at 1:41 pm

            I take it you mean the “two track system” that Hager has spoken of and written about in his book – where the PM remains aloof and lets thugs do his dirty work for him. If you are right, the book ought by rights to put pressure on that plan, but it remains to be seen how much influence it will have on voting patterns. The relaxed, untarnished image Key has cultivated is now seriously compromised, whether or not he ends up getting a third term.

    • disturbed 7.6
      19 August 2014 at 12:18 pm

      +++10 Colonial Viper, true.
      “This country’s politics is undergoing a major crisis which is almost constitutional in nature. Now is the moment – the opportunity – for major proposals and reforms to be put forward, by the Left to clean things up”

      Cut out the corrupt political cancer.

      This recapturing of honest open political policy must be aggressively perused by the opposition prior to the election as a major platform otherwise the cancer will infect any future Government also.

    • Murray Olsen 7.7
      20 August 2014 at 1:54 am

      We really need something like the Australian corruption commissions. As things stand, Ede should have been arrested, there should be a warrant for Slug Boy, Collins should have been stood down, and Key should have been dismissed. All we seem to have is the GG, and he’s just a Tory who used to be in uniform. Something like a BOR tribunal would also be good, to ensure legislation and activities didn’t violate the Bill of Rights. It would need teeth. Both would need to be constituted as democratically as possible, rather than becoming one party’s toys via appointments.

      If we don’t get something like this, the Tories are just going to get worse.

  8. Alistair Connor 8
    19 August 2014 at 7:34 am

    One word. Herald.

    Brilliant media management by the Whaledumper. This is going to be fun.

    • Enough is Enough 8.1
      19 August 2014 at 11:01 am

      It has been brilliant to date.

      Whaledumper has done what the left wing parties have failed to do in the past 6 years. He/she has shown up the parties in a spectacular way.

      I hope Whaledumper does not overegg it though. We are getting very close to the point where absolutely everyone agrees that Key, Collins at al are scum. Once we reach that point, more vile from the mouth and emails of Slater will not add anything to the issue and will run the risk of public exhaustion.

      My strategy would be leak for a few more days. Then just let the media hammer Key until election day.

  9. Alistair Connor 9
    19 August 2014 at 7:36 am

    Oh, and what the Viper said.

  10. One Anonymous Bloke 10
    19 August 2014 at 8:01 am

    Listened to Harré taking ownership of Plunket. Catch and release before it starts to smell, Laila.

    Listened to Key on RNZ admit it’s all true and offer ‘but but but but Lllllaaaabbbboooouuuurr’ as an excuse. Enjoy your retirement, trash.

    Prostitutes is it now? The Herald eats its former trusted sources.

    • Tracey 10.1
      19 August 2014 at 8:06 am

      Ah, you haven’t read the book. Yup Mr Slater whom Mr Key wont distance himself from used a former prostitute to trawl brothels to try to catch politicians and people Slater doesn’t like “at it”.

      Mr Bhatnagar seemed to revel in Slater’s gutter dwelling, and didn’t Ms Collins give him a job???

  11. dv 11
    19 August 2014 at 8:08 am

    Meanwhile the Govt debt is
    NZ$ 84,561,089,428
    now

    NZ$ 84,561,092,596

    now
    NZ$ 84,561,095,500

    it rose 6000 while i was writing this comment

  12. Ant 12
    19 August 2014 at 8:11 am

    Another good day to be left 😀

  13. Chooky 13
    19 August 2014 at 8:42 am

    ‘Hager’s Dirty Politics: what the book ultimately reveals is abuse of power’

    By Martyn Bradbury / August 19, 2014

    “Slater & Co are not bloggers, they are political sadists…Nicky’s book is now doing what I suspected it would do, create a shockwave of revulsion. Andrew Geddis over at Pundit Blog sums up this attitude best, and it’s reverberations build with every single new person who reads the book.
    This is the outrage and the uproar caused by a mere 10 000 print run, what level of crescendo do you think we’ll hit when it becomes 20 000? 30 000? 40 000? What the headlines miss is the stinging hatred that shines through all the messages of those involved and that spite is shocking people. Politics can be angry, politics can be loud – but hateful? Hate politics has no place in a modern democracy….

  14. Sanctuary 14
    19 August 2014 at 9:01 am

    Man, I was head-desking hard listening to Susie Ferguson being unable to grasp a straight forward answer from David Cunliffe.

  15. One Anonymous Bloke 15
    19 August 2014 at 9:05 am

    RNZ Headline: “PM sticking to his line…”

    There once was a fellow called Key,
    Who lied to you and to me.
    His lies tripped him up so,
    Deceitful a new low,
    And everybody can see.

  16. millsy 16
    19 August 2014 at 9:26 am

    jcuk says:

    “The Left may call them policies but to me they sound more like bribes …. the one policy which would make a huge difference has been ignored for decades and I have no faith that either side will address the matter … ample State Housing for all who need it.”

    If you chopped all these transfer payments and used the money for a boost to the state housing stock and income related rents, you could achieve the same outcome in a much cleaner way.

    • Colonial Viper 16.1
      19 August 2014 at 10:50 am

      Yes lots of ways to simplify and overhaul what has become a very convoluted system.

      Our current political left has not a single radical bone in its body though, preferring to tinker with a machine which is increasingly broken and not fit for purpose – the care of NZ citizens from cradle to grave.

  17. ianmac 17
    19 August 2014 at 9:38 am

    In the Herald re TV3 Firstline this morning Key:
    Mr Key stood by his stance that the emails were “selective” and an attempt to smear the government.

    “We’ve never refuted actually that the emails were real, I don’t think anyone’s made that point.”
    What does the last sentence mean?

    • Hami Shearlie 17.1
      19 August 2014 at 10:04 am

      When did ANYTHING John Key said, actually MEAN anything? The Shallow Man doesn’t think deeply enough for anything he says to MEAN anything, but he does do an expert spin, better than a whirling dervish!!

    • crocodill 17.2
      19 August 2014 at 10:30 am

      Either:

      “No one’s asked us to discuss whether the emails are real. Since this has not happened, there is doubt over whether or not they are made up. We are too big and powerful to offer to pre-empt the question. Power does not bow to open dialogue. I can be asked if I am willing to be asked to discuss the emails, but not on Mondays and not while I’m in the office or during interviews. Please make an appointment when I’m not in the office, at such time I will then be unwilling to discuss the emails.”

      or a more literal translation,

      “We have never argued that the emails are real, I don’t think anyone’s made that point. I have not come out and openly said they are. How can you accuse us of things we did if we don’t agree that we did them?*”

      • refer to general traits of psychopathic personality.
      • crocodill 17.2.1
        19 August 2014 at 10:42 am

        another interpretation:

        “I’m not saying these things didn’t happen, what I’m saying is that not enough people are saying they didn’t happen.”

  18. Te Reo Putake 18
    19 August 2014 at 10:13 am

    If I can borrow a boxing analogy, Bob Jones didn’t see it coming. His piece in the Herald must have been written early last week, because it looks terribly dated now:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11311023

  19. millsy 19
    19 August 2014 at 10:15 am

    Just got off the phone with the Ministry of Justice about sorting out a traffic fine I had.

    I was going to do a payment arrangement, at $10 or $20 per week but apparently if you want to make a payment arrangement you have to provide a budget of income and expenses.

    Seeing as I wasnt really keen on having to submit my personal affairs to justice system so they decide that I was worthy enough to be allowed to pay it off in the method I think best (I wasnt trying to get out of paying it, I just wanted to pay the damn thing off over time) out came the credit card.

    Personally I reckon that is bullshit, and penalises the poor more than anyone else, just getting them further and further into debt, they shouldnt have to submit a budget because they cannot shit out $121 on the spot.

    It seems that Courts Minister Chester Burrows has made it a mission bankrupt people through the fine system.

    • The Al1en 19.1
      19 August 2014 at 10:57 am

      Right, that’s you done for. Expect your name to be passed on by judith to cam for outing her ministries sh!t systems and prepare for the attack on your character to commence. That’s how it works these days, isn’t it?

    • Jenk 19.2
      19 August 2014 at 11:00 am

      Interesting comment, Millsy. We had the same argument with ACC – but we just went ahead and
      started paying off the ACC debt by $20 a fortnight instead of the amount they wanted – much more – and haven’t heard a word since. We have another few months to go before the debt is fully paid up.

    • Murray Olsen 19.3
      20 August 2014 at 2:07 am

      My budget would have been:

      Income $X
      Expenses $X-10

      I don’t see why how much we earn is any of their business. Nor is what we spend our money on. This could be something that Mana would look at. I doubt if Labour care.

  20. Rich 20
    19 August 2014 at 10:52 am

    Latest National Party policy regarding the poor was the announcement of a loan deal via one of the Australian banks hiring a woman from one of the payroll lenders whose market interest rate is often around 500%. The Govt is contributing a meagre $250,000 to the plan, not that it’s necessarily a good plan in the first place.

  21. Karen 21
    19 August 2014 at 11:05 am

    Nicky Hager’s sister has written a very moving piece on her blog about Nicky and “Dirty Politics.”. It’s worth reading.

    http://mandyhager.blogspot.fr/p/occasional-political-rant.html

    • Draco T Bastard 21.1
      19 August 2014 at 12:14 pm

      Why is it acceptable for our Prime Minister and his colleagues not to READ THE BOOK, in order that they could then answer each accusation point by point? I don’t understand why people allow this bullshit response. If you are an honest PM and someone accuses those closest to you of corruption, wouldn’t the first thing you’d want to do be to read the accusations so you can then investigate them? More needs to be made of the fact that Key refuses to do so. In my book that’s an admission of guilt in itself – and this needs to be slammed home.

      Emphasis mine but very, very true. Key knows how deep the corruption goes and he’s trying to hide it.

  22. geoff 22
    19 August 2014 at 11:50 am

    This has probably been linked to already:

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Key-Left-wing-has-given-up-arguing-policy/tabid/1607/articleID/357418/Default.aspx

    Stunning video of Key unraveling on TV3

  23. Puckish Rogue 23
    19 August 2014 at 12:00 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10396668/Today-in-politics-Tuesday-August-19

    “Labour leader David Cunliffe tried to score a point over John Key yesterday by saying he rarely talks to bloggers, but that seems a stretch. ”

    That has to be the understatement of the day

    • Enough is Enough 23.1
      19 August 2014 at 3:15 pm

      Don’t try and drag Cunliffe into this

      • One Anonymous Bloke 23.1.1
        19 August 2014 at 4:00 pm

        Why not? Let’s make the comparison: David Cunliffe has done Q&A sessions right here at The Standard. Something to be ashamed of, not.

        Now we know the Prime Minister hires people to post at Whaleoil for him, which begs the question: why can’t he post there under his own name?

        Come on Puckish Runt, let’s hear it.

    • Rodel 23.2
      19 August 2014 at 3:56 pm

      PR
      And your point is?

  24. The Al1en 24
    19 August 2014 at 12:24 pm

    So who will win the upcoming nat party leadership election contest?

    Obviously judith, despite her arrogance probably disagreeing, is now out of the running and joyce, with his creepy and slimy dirty politics defence is looking somewhat lame, so with both pre race favourites falling at the starting gate, who’s left?

    At a guess, English is happiest of the party stablemates right now.
    Paula could be cake and sticked into making an attempt at a run.
    And a longshot is Simple Simon from Tauranga, just as long as he doesn’t have to think and elucidate on the campaign trail.

  25. Saarbo 25
    19 August 2014 at 12:39 pm

    A very interesting Blogpost by Giovani tiso…I wondered who might have written the anonymous articles in the Listerner….possibly Jane Clifton.
    http://bat-bean-beam.blogspot.co.nz/2014/08/of-journalism-and-monsters.html

  26. Rodel 26
    19 August 2014 at 1:21 pm

    Part of the Crosby Textor strategy is to dissuade people from voting at all, which was what happened last time.
    That idea was explained in Dirty Politics by Simon Lusk.

    “There are a few basic propositions with negative campaigning that are worth knowing about. It lowers turnout, favours right more than left as the right continues to turn out, and drives away the independents.’ In short, many people stop participating in politics. If politicians cannot be trusted, if politics looks like a petty or ugly game, and if no one seems to be talking about the things that matter, then what’s the point of bothering to participate? Just leave them to it.”

    When you vote take 2 people with you and get them to take 2 people etc.etc.

    • crocodill 26.1
      19 August 2014 at 1:48 pm

      Simon Lusk overstates the effect of negative campaigning. It may stop people participating in organised mainstream politics, but it also encourages stronger community links and unofficial groups. People don’t just throw up their hands and think, “oh well boss man is just too big for me. Best I just stand by and let my family die …”. Happens all over the world, throughout history, and while not entirely a constructive example it’s already happened here too: The Mongrel Mob.

  27. yeshe 27
    19 August 2014 at 1:43 pm

    I wonder why Colin Craig has been so quiet since publication of Dirty Politics ?

    And then there is this … I guess if you want to defile a hoarding for any reason, it’s good to have some creative talent ! And yes, as is commented, it is an improvement of the Splendour In The Grass images …

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11310723

  28. David 28
    19 August 2014 at 1:51 pm

    Now John Key is using RNZAF A109’s to get himself around the country and campaign. What an appalling man and not very sound judgement. I know he occupies the highest office in the land, but there has to be a stage where public servants can say GTFO we can’t do that for you PM.

  29. McFlock 29
    19 August 2014 at 2:19 pm

    A couple of years back people said Key didn’t look like he wanted the job, and tories were outraged.
    Then it turned out that yeah, he was seriously considering quitting the job.

    Does this look like someone who wants to stay PM? I don’t think so – he’ll be off after the election, however it turns out. Joyce, Blinglish and Collins will be fighting over the succession: who gets to be PM if they win, and who doesn’t have to be caretaker leader of the opposition if they lose.

  30. Tiger Mountain 30
    19 August 2014 at 2:28 pm

    Collins to Slater email; Pleasants ph. numbers supplied
    https://twitter.com/whaledump/status/501519060782551040

    • yeshe 30.1
      19 August 2014 at 2:40 pm

      interestingly not from collins’ govt email but her private ‘judithcollinslaw’ which is hugely ironic …

      (maybe she is related to coleslaw from banks’ cabbage boat ?)

  31. yeshe 31
    19 August 2014 at 2:56 pm

    when ‘last’ doesn’t mean ‘last’ .. another lie from Key .. but at least he has been forced to address it, or so it seems .. Key on Collins …

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11311222

    ( she is getting another chance because it’s all a left-wing smear campaign ffs !

  32. Puckish Rogue 32
    19 August 2014 at 2:56 pm

    http://www.throng.co.nz/2014/08/ratings-campbell-live-suffers-worst-week-2014/

    • Ok this suprised me, guess its not as big a deal as people thought or maybe people are over it already…
    • Enough is Enough 32.1
      19 August 2014 at 3:11 pm

      What is not as big a deal?

      • Puckish Rogue 32.1.1
        19 August 2014 at 3:18 pm

        Well if people were as interested in Nicky Hager and dirty politics as the left were hoping then Campbells ratings would have been up yet his ratings were poo so I’ll leave you to draw your own conclusion as to why his ratings are in the toilet

        • Enough is Enough 32.1.1.1
          19 August 2014 at 3:26 pm

          because they flipped over to 7 Sharp that was screen the same thing maybe?

  33. Puckish Rogue 33
    19 August 2014 at 3:10 pm

    Ok so

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/10396698/Surplus-on-track-Treasury-figures-show

    • Treasury says the economy is “growing strongly” and expected to continue to do so, with recent falls in dairy prices not outside forecasts.
    • This year the books are forecast to return to surplus; wafer-thin at $297 million. It nevertheless fulfils a major political promise which if missed could have hurt Finance Minister Bill English’s credibility.
    • Beyond 2014/15 the surpluses will not grow at nearly the rate that Treasury had forecast, owing to a cut in the level of expected revenue from tax, especially GST.
    • This means debt will be higher for longer, now peaking higher and later at $67.9b in 2017/18.
    • Unemployment is forecast to drop to 4.5 per cent by 2018, down from 5.6 per cent at the end of June

    Well done National and John Key

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10399377/Ron-Mark-back-with-NZ-First

    New Zealand First MP Andrew Williams is set to be dumped to an unelectable position on the party list, with former MP Ron Mark set to rejoin the party.

    Stuff understands a draft copy of the NZ First list, determined by the party’s selection committee on the weekend, has Williams ranked at 13, and Mark ranked at 9.

    • A draft copy eh, can anyone confirm with Nicky Hager if Cameron Slater was involved? But seriously this is good for NZFirsts survival beyond Winston
    • Enough is Enough 33.1
      19 August 2014 at 3:14 pm

      Christchurch Earthquake

      Take that out of the equation and we are in a deep recession.

      National has failed on every count

    • Poission 33.2
      19 August 2014 at 3:20 pm

      This year the books are forecast to return to surplus

      The projected surplus is less then the model error.(and already wrong due to the models finalization in early august)

      • One Anonymous Bloke 33.2.1
        19 August 2014 at 3:29 pm

        Whose books? Nicki Hagers?

        Just joking, I know how little he’ll make from this.

  34. karol 34
    19 August 2014 at 3:17 pm

    Bryce Edwards dumped by NZH – Cathy Odgers and Pagani doing columns

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11300033

    • One Anonymous Bloke 34.1
      19 August 2014 at 3:30 pm

      So, Josie for the centre right, Cathy Odgers for the contract killer vote, who have they got from the left?

      • Chooky 34.1.1
        19 August 2014 at 5:15 pm

        lol…i shouldnt laugh because it is very very, serious …..potentially fatal…that horrible Cactus woman should come somewhere under the Crimes Act imo

        …i hope someone hauls her arse and those of her co-conspirators /collaborators before the courts

        • yeshe 34.1.1.1
          19 August 2014 at 5:49 pm

          Law Society needs lots of letters.

          • Chooky 34.1.1.1.1
            19 August 2014 at 6:16 pm

            well maybe an online petition /letter of concern could be started….I certainly would be willing to sign….she certainly does not do the legal fraternity any favours … in fact she brings them into disrepute

      • Colonial Viper 34.1.2
        20 August 2014 at 12:03 am

        Fricking Josie Pagani. Figures. At least she’s good at being a careerist.

  35. Ron 35
    19 August 2014 at 3:41 pm

    I really would like to know what is Labours Policy on Broadcasting/Media.
    Nothing on the website but if they are serious about cleaning up NZ they need a strong Broadcasting Policy

  36. Paul 36
    19 August 2014 at 4:45 pm

    Farrar on the Panel.
    How does he get selected?
    What happens if Mora has to interview him about Dirty Politics in Checkpoint.
    Not good enough, RNZ.

    • disturbed 36.1
      19 August 2014 at 5:33 pm

      Jim Mora’s a Nat’s spinner mole, and should go or come clean and give promised unbiased media.

  37. Chooky 37
    19 August 2014 at 5:21 pm

    ‘Panic setting in for National as they realise what’s about to happen’

    By Martyn Bradbury / August 19, 2014

    “Whaledump has the potential to reveal the full picture and the full picture is just so much more disgusting and damaging than what is currently out in front of the public, that’s why those within National and the Right who are being informed just how vile that picture is are putting as much distance between themselves and Slater as they humanly can….

    .
    – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/08/19/panic-setting-in-for-national-as-they-realise-whats-about-to-happen/#sthash.fWh2KlNN.dpuf

  38. disturbed 38
    19 August 2014 at 5:30 pm

    Hi Trickledown, 1.1 at 7.11am
    you should see this after you said;
    “Why have my power bills gone up so much”.

    Todays poll on high power prices.

    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Winston-Peters-A-burglary-that-went-horribly-wrong-for-the-president/tabid/721/articleID/52607/Default.aspx
    Don’t forget Nixon on History channel after 8pm tonight.

    Radio LIVE Daily Poll
    Thank You for Participating
    1. Have you found it a struggle to pay your power bill this winter?
    Yes 59 of votes 59%
    No 41 of votes 41%

  39. Weepus beard 39
    19 August 2014 at 6:05 pm

    ZB reporting that Slater has called Ede squeamish and gutless for not speaking about his black ops role. Weehee! the right are eating themselves!

    Anyone got a link?

    • disturbed 39.1
      19 August 2014 at 6:17 pm

      Slater calling Ede a gutless —-

      http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbpol/953007518-new–whaledump–info-targets-judith-Collins

      7;pm Campbelllive in Rununga west coast talking to folks about the Feral /Slater issue.
      8pm on History Nixon – Watergate tonight.

    • Chooky 39.3
      19 August 2014 at 6:19 pm

      @ Weepus Beard….Ede really is the dark horse here

      Call me a nosey Chook but:

      ….what is his profile?
      …who is he married/partnered to? ( anyone famous?)
      ….what is his CV background? ( Harvard? Cambridge?)
      …where are the photos? ( golfing body shots are not clear enough)
      …what exactly is his relationship with John Key?

      … thus far Ede seems to have swum under the radar….but maybe he is pivotal?

      • Weepus beard 39.3.1
        19 August 2014 at 6:53 pm

        Ok, so there’s this poster on a completely different forum which I used to be a memeber of who says he went to school with Ede. The poster is a fleewee, lives in London but likes to comment favourably toward the right when talking about NZ even though he’s not contributed to this country for some years now. I’ll post some of his musings on this…

        One thing that is interesting is that apart from an obscured photo of Ede firing a golf ball into the ocean there are no known photographs of him. This is very clever on his part. He must have spent years keeping a lid on that, especially difficult in today’s age of selfies and camera phones. So there is no bullseye visible target for the media to focus on. They can’t seem to even doorstep him or track his movements.

        He is a tremendously cunning f**k.

        Unlike the Damian McBride incident in the UK, which is a close parallel, they can’t seem to take aim at the lead character. He refuses to speak to anyone too. This means that the connection to the Beehive remains a bit hazy. If one of the lead characters is essentially invisible, the plot is not as interesting and it may have less legs.

        I guess we’ll have to see if they can smoke him out.

        I recall Alistair Campbell saying these things have a shelf-life of three days. But if it goes on for longer than three days then you have a real problem, and the fire is out of control. With the weekend coming up you would think the National Party are hoping for it to die out then. If it’s still around Monday, then trouble ahead.

        and

        I went to school with ede and was fairly good mates with him. What I thought was funny at the time was that he made a unilateral decision in 7th form to stop wearing school uniform. A few old school teachers pulled him up on it but just sneered and ignored them. It was quite funny. He didn’t go to university. Went straight to radio and developed an ultra cynical methodology immediately. He has no philosophy. Amazing how long he’s been in the shadows.

        – Seneca of the Night

        • Chooky 39.3.1.1
          19 August 2014 at 7:43 pm

          well thanks for that …but still the faceless man of mystery….seems like a pivot man in the whole scheme of things ….even a junior Mr. Smiley ( but then i am just a nosey Chook with too much imagination)

          …but maybe things will clarify…i look forward to a special Post on him on the Standard

          i remember a book i used to read to the kids ….’Where is Wally?’

          ….where is Jason?

          • Weepus beard 39.3.1.1.1
            19 August 2014 at 8:41 pm

            Yes, I know as much as anyone on Ede. The first I remember his name being mentioned was the photos of the aftermath of the press party sent straight to the hate speech merchant, Cameron Slater.

        • Rich 39.3.1.2
          19 August 2014 at 7:50 pm

          Well we didn’t have uniforms in the 7th Form.

          Has anybody seen Ede then, or is he an alter-ego of someone?

      • karol 39.3.2
        19 August 2014 at 8:35 pm

        Yes, I have looked for stuff on Ede before and found very little via google. I thought I saw a link to a newspaper article back in about 2005 or so – maybe earlier, maybe later. I thought it was a newspaper article that was written by Jason Ede, about John key.

        I just had another look tonight.

        I found this mention from a couple of days ago on NZ Herald, with a bit about Ede being a former journalist and Don Brash’s press secretary.

        I found this, which is total heresay, and as far as I know, could just be someone’s fantasy – although, he does have a bit of contextual detail – elaborate fantasy, if it is one.

        My link to John Key. saying Ede knows where Key’s bodies are buried.

      • Rich 39.3.3
        19 August 2014 at 10:03 pm

        Slater is calling him gutless.

        Interesting that Slater is really pally with Jason but when he needs to ask a press secretary a favour regarding access to Key he asks Kevin.

        Do you think Key takes Jason to Hawaii?

  40. Chooky 40
    19 August 2014 at 6:38 pm

    ‘Can someone in the media please ask the PM of NZ to categorically deny any National Party staff worked with Cam Slater in the smearing of Tania Billingsley? ‘

    By Martyn Bradbury / August 19, 2014

    “Force him to go on the record!..

  41. CnrJoe 41
    19 August 2014 at 7:48 pm

    From Thursday – so long ago right?
    http://www.3news.co.nz/Video-John-Key-talks-Nicky-Hagers-Dirty-Politics/tabid/1607/articleID/356848/Default.aspx

    Prime Minister says he reads the standard and John – I can watch this again and again and again he goes on to say that hagers book only has pejorative things to say about about him personally. ?.not that hes read the book…wtf?

  42. ianmac 42
    19 August 2014 at 7:50 pm

    Has anyone posted a comment about the item tonight on Campbell Live which is that EQC is very short of money to complete their commitments. The reason is that the Government wants to hide the debt because if it was counted, then the “surplus” heralded by the Government does not exist. If proven this would suggest that the Govt is lying. Surely not.

  43. The Al1en 43
    19 August 2014 at 8:09 pm

    Amazing what technology can do these days

    Facebook to point out satire from news
    http://www.3news.co.nz/Facebook-to-point-out-satire-from-news/tabid/412/articleID/357416/Default.aspx

    Next they’ll be able to point out all cam slater’s comments and posts are sh!t.

  44. disturbed 44
    19 August 2014 at 8:24 pm

    Nixon & Watergate on at 8.30 tonight on History channel

  46. tricledrown 46
    19 August 2014 at 9:20 pm

    Disturbed outlined what’s happening power companies are paying bigger surpluses to shareholders basically a cartel no competition .The previous price rises were for upgrades of infrastructure now the spend on infrastructure is declining rapidly instead of competing for customers with lower prices shareholders are taking windfall profits and tuning time for govt intervention!

    • Stinkin Rich 46.1
      19 August 2014 at 9:36 pm

      “power companies are paying bigger surpluses to shareholders”.

      Quite right too, old boy. Gott’a get something out of the trough before those bally socialists win the election and nationalise it all again.

  47. the pigman 47
    19 August 2014 at 10:26 pm

    I see that @whaledump has this evening tweeted “This is not all about party politics. Be patient. You’ll see.”

    Pure speculation, but I wonder if Mssrs. Mallard and/or Cosgrove are about to take a tumble. Mallard has been unusually silent on social media re: #dirtypolitics.

    Assuming those two are the primary ABC sources for the likes of Garner and Gower, it doesn’t seem beyond the question they’ve been in communication with Slater.

    Hope I’m wrong.

    • Hanswurst 47.1
      19 August 2014 at 11:49 pm

      Surely anything about Labour would still be “party politics” as well. The simplest way to read “not all about party politics” is that there are leaks involving individuals or institutions that are not commonly associated with particular parties in the public eye.

      • the pigman 47.1.1
        20 August 2014 at 12:04 am

        You’re right, that is the most logical interpretation, which I think is the same point disturbed was making below.

        The common factor will be whaleoil, and who he “runs interference” with/for.

  48. disturbed 48
    19 August 2014 at 11:12 pm

    Nah more like the Justice or other intel arm has been burnt now.

    Did you watch Nixon Watergate tonight on History channel I posted it.

    So way out about how far Nixon reached out to control all, so these guys may be in the play too.

  49. Alistair Connor 49
    20 August 2014 at 3:53 am

    Just looking at the Electoral Consortium stuff just put on line :

    http://www.electionresults.co.nz/national-loses-youth-gains-middle-aged

    There is a striking “bulge” in National’s electoral support in the 50 to 64 age bracket, and the profile is very different from 2011 :

    Percentage of population by age bracket supporting National December 2011
    18 to 24 – 38.4%
    25 to 34 – 36.2%
    35 to 49 – 46.7%
    50 to 64 – 38.9%
    65 plus – 44.4%

    Percentage of population by age bracket supporting National July 2014
    18 to 24 – 25.8%
    25 to 34 – 32.9%
    35 to 49 – 42.2%
    50 to 64 – 51.2%
    65 over – 44.6%

    Two remarks
    1) that’s a large constituency of people of roughly JK’s age who are fairly apolitical and identify with him (nice guy, winner)
    2) They are National’s “soft underbelly”… (sorry, couldn’t resist)

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