Open mike 20/01/2023

56 comments on “Open mike 20/01/2023 ”

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1. Visubversa 1

   20 January 2023 at 7:46 am

   We lose trust in Government agencies that lie.

   https://openinquiry.nz/2023/01/15/sex-lies-and-the-census
   • Sabine 1.1

     20 January 2023 at 8:15 am

     Oh yes, her penis and his vagina, correct data is for suckers.

     ” Sex is based on a person’s sex characteristics, such as their chromosomes, hormones, and reproductive organs. While typically based upon the sex characteristics observed and recorded at birth or infancy, a person’s sex can change over the course of their lifetime and may differ from their sex recorded at birth.”

     oh my, the science………throw aboard your old believes and march to the new tune where amputating healthy organs and injecting cross sex hormones is changing ones sex.
     Just believe the science. And people wonder why others get cynical.
     I do wonder how much of a studentloan the person has.
   • tinderdry6 1.2

     20 January 2023 at 12:15 pm

     Thanks for the link – a good read.

     " This policy means that data on ‘males’ and ‘females’ will ordinarily be based on a person’s subjective gender identity rather than his or her sex. "

     Just one of the many problems this madness is going to create.
     • Visubversa 1.2.1

       20 January 2023 at 5:17 pm

       Yes, and never again will we have accurate data on the basis of sex. No data for pay equity – or even for equal pay.
2. joe90 2

   20 January 2023 at 7:54 am

   Abandoning the loser.

   /

   Iran will not recognize new regions as part of Russia

   Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Amir Abdollahian said that Tehran does not recognize Crimea, Lugansk and Donetsk People's Republics, Kherson and Zaporozhye regions as part of Russia. According to him, despite "excellent relations" with Moscow, Iran recognizes the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine.

   https://www-kommersant-ru.translate.goog/doc/5774706?from=top_main_2&_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

   Serbian President Vucic denounces Russian occupation of Crimea and Donbas

   “We said from the beginning that we cannot support Russia's invasion of Ukraine,” Vucic said in an interview with Bloomberg on Jan. 18.

   “For us Crimea is Ukraine, Donbass is Ukraine – it will remain so.”

   https://news.yahoo.com/serbian-president-vucic-denounces-russian-183100868.html
   • Sabine 2.1

     20 January 2023 at 8:20 am

     Ah, yes, the stellar human rights proponent Iran. The country were old men are hanging their young by the many daily in order to pretend that God wants the non males hidden under a bedsheet if ever they dare to leave the house, that gayness must be castrated into womanhood or else be hanged, were the girls get raped into death so that they may not enter heaven for their audacity of wanting a life on their own rather then be considered owned property by their father, husband and state.

     Oh well, what would the winning west do without such a stellar supporter. 🙂 Never mind that Russia still does not have to win. Never mind that the Ukraine without Nato would already have lost. Never mind that if Russia fights Nato rather then Ukraine, all the Nato Memberstates might want to check how that will affect them.
   • SPC 2.2

     20 January 2023 at 11:53 am

     The Serbian position is quite the riposte to Putin.

     It is a nation that had it own issues with the break-up of Yugoslavia – conflict with Croatia and Bosnia over borders (not always in accord with the local of ethnic Serbs). And Russia supported Serbia then.

     The Iranian position is inexplicable given they are supplying drones weapons to Russia to attack the supply of power and water to Ukrainian civilians.

     It may be one of principle over agreed national borders/national sovereignty – but they supply weapons to Shia militias in Iraq and Hizbollah in Lebanon which diminishes the capability of nation state governance.

     Or it could be their position vis a vis Turks wanting a 30 mile occupation zone in north Syria.
     • Scud 2.2.1

       20 January 2023 at 6:46 pm

       Both probably taking a Each Way Bet now, instead of putting it all on the horse called Russia?

       If what I've heard is correct Iran has taken some very big losses IRT to its instructors teaching the Russians how use their UAV's & their UAV's are starting to lose some of its effectiveness against the Ukrainian Ground Base Air Defence.

       Which is now out stripping supply for Russia, but also to their other back Terrorist Groups with the Middle East Region.

       I think the Serbs are now having 2nd thoughts at physically & morally supporting Russia via antics in Kosovo with the KFRO Troops?

       I wouldn't be surprised if the EU has read them the Riot Act, as it has been a long term state economic goal to join the EU at some stage?

       Has Economic reality finally kick in for the Serbs?
       • SPC 2.2.1.1

         20 January 2023 at 7:05 pm

         Clearly the main focus atm is realising membership of the EU. While reluctant to apply sanctions on Russia (unwilling to meet such a cost while not yet in the EU), they seem to be on side with the EU on respect for the Ukraine borders.
       • joe90 2.2.1.2

         20 January 2023 at 7:16 pm

         Has Economic reality finally kick in for the Serbs?

         Reckon. The relatively wealthy EU or a skint Russia?

         As for Iran; the last thing the mullahs would want is to boost Azeri and Kurdish ambitions of secession by recognising disputed territories.
         • Scud 2.2.1.2.1

           20 January 2023 at 10:15 pm

           Yep
       • lprent 2.2.1.3

         21 January 2023 at 8:03 am

         The Serbs have a seccessionist area – Kosovo. A problem that was caused by active and independently documented ethnic cleansing in the 90s.

         Unlike the fantasy ethnic issues and faked referendums in the DPR, LPR, and Crimea.

         If Serbia diplomatically supports breakaways in Ukraine how can they argue against Kosovo?
   • mikesh 2.3

     20 January 2023 at 9:08 pm

     Why does Iran say this at this point in time? The Ukranian war has been going on for a year. Does Turkey's recent discovery of natural gas in the Black Sea have anything to doe with it?

     https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/turkeys-natural-gas-found-black-sea-now-comes-710-bcm-erdogan-2022-12-26/

     Iran is a supplier of gas to Turkey.

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_in_Iran
     • SPC 2.3.1

       20 January 2023 at 9:45 pm

       The total discovery so far would supply about 1/3rd of Turkey's demand.

       https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/turkey-bets-black-sea-gas-230000561.html

       Russia (after the loss of Nordstrom) is promoting the idea of Turkey as a gas hub for supply to the EU (on-selling Russian and Iranian/Qatar gas).

       I don’t see energy as having anything to do with Iran’s position on Ukraine. It might be they are trying to prevent EU action in response to their supply of weapons to Russia.
       • mikesh 2.3.1.1

         21 January 2023 at 9:05 am

         Turkey brings in gas from various suppliers but Iran, as a Russian ally, may think that they will the first to be dropped as a supplier once the Black Sea supply is up and running. Turkey also covets some of the Mediterranean gas deposits as part of its "blue homeland” policy.
         • SPC 2.3.1.1.1

           21 January 2023 at 9:34 am

           Erdogan would probably retain both Russian and Iran gas supply (2/3rrd of their demand will still come from imports for years yet) as this is the more secure arrangement.

           Russia is advocating that Iranian supply to Turkey continues and that some go onto Europe, they also want the option of Russian supply to Europe via Turkey (post Nordstrom and as an alternative to across Ukraine).

           The nations have economic interests in common, whatever their other differences

           1. Turkey of NATO drones to Ukraine, Iran to Russia.

           2. positions on ethnic groups having a right to secede (Iran and Turkey on one side and Russia on the other).

           3. sanctity of borders (Iran on one side, Russia and Turkey on the other)

           4. recognition of Israel (Russia and Turkey on one side, Iran on the other).
           • Francesca 2.3.1.1.1.1

             21 January 2023 at 11:19 am

             It's complicated

             Looks like The Saudis and Iran are making up

             May not be such good news for Israel , or the US, given Saudi's snubbing of Biden and warming of relations with Russia

             Opec and all that

             https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230114-iran-agreement-reached-with-saudi-arabia-to-continue-dialogue-until-relations-are-normalised/

             https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/05/putin-mohammed-bin-salman-russia-saudi-arabia-deepen-ties

             Agreeing to disagree on some topics and cooperating on other projects is about diplomacy and negotiation and recognition of other's positions
     • Scud 2.3.2

       20 January 2023 at 10:17 pm

       Could be?

       Turkey has to develop it 1st & who's got the technical knowledge to do to?
       • Francesca 2.3.2.1

         21 January 2023 at 11:28 am

         Yes

         Turkey doesn't mind having Russia's Rosatom build them a nuclear plant

         https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/11/turkeys-russian-built-nuclear-plant-could-amplify-moscows-regional-influence

         Like I say complicated

         https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-nuclear-power-industry-graphics/32014247.html

         Odd, Russia building nuclear power plants that will replace Russian oil and gas .

         But then Russia remains the largest supplier of raw uranium and uranium enrichment services , possibly eclipsed by China down the track
       • SPC 2.3.2.2

         21 January 2023 at 11:40 am

         …. it's due to come on stream this year. We got Maui back in the 70's …

         The recent discovery (part of the same field) just adds to what was found earlier.
3. Robert Guyton 3

   20 January 2023 at 8:53 am

   .
   • bwaghorn 3.1

     20 January 2023 at 1:26 pm

     That's deep dude
     • joe90 3.1.1

       20 January 2023 at 1:39 pm

       Way back when I first started using the interwebs a message consisting of a single dot signified a moment of silence/mourning.

       And with Robert being a bloke of a certain age, David Crosby comes to mind.
       • bwaghorn 3.1.1.1

         20 January 2023 at 1:52 pm

         Aaagh I see, hadn't noticed the dot on my grubby farm boy phone, was just having fun but accidentally got it right it would seem.
       • Mac1 3.1.1.2

         20 January 2023 at 2:00 pm

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMfvYxK9Zoo

         "Find the cost of freedom, buried in the ground.

         Mother earth will swallow you, lay your body down." Crosby Stills and Nash
       • Shanreagh 3.1.1.3

         20 January 2023 at 2:06 pm

         When I started it meant

         'I agree '
4. SPC 4

   20 January 2023 at 12:05 pm

   There are a number of alt right social media sites where you might find conspiracy theories of this sort … or Groundswell.

   That’s why the true underlying agenda of those who preach the gospel of co-governance can only be the re-confiscation of the tribal territories lost since the Land Wars. This may sound far-fetched, but it is not impossible. As Māori discovered in the 1860s, and subsequent decades, all that is required to deprive a people of their lands, forests and fisheries is control of the legislative process, and the military force necessary to enforce the legislators’ will.

   While Pakeha New Zealanders remained united in their resolve to construct a “Better Britain” on the lands confiscated and/or acquired (all too often by immoral means) from the country’s indigenous people, the notion of re-confiscation could be dismissed as an absurdity. But, if a substantial portion of the Pakeha population, most particularly those occupying the critical nodes of state power: the judiciary, the public service, academia, the state-owned news-media, and at least one of the two major political parties; were to become ideologically disposed to facilitate the re-confiscation of Māori resources, then the idea would begin to sound a whole lot less far-fetched.

   How might a New Zealand parliament dominated by political parties favourably disposed towards co-governance set about transferring land held by private Pakeha/foreign interests to iwi authorities? One method would see all kinds of environmental and cultural obligations imposed on landowners – obligations that could not be fulfilled without rendering the enterprise unprofitable. Crown purchase (at a fraction of the land’s true worth) might follow, allowing the state to amass a vast amount of land. This process would undoubtedly be speeded-up by the consequent catastrophic collapse in agricultural land prices, which only constant and massive Crown purchases could stem.

   With most of New Zealand land now in the possession of the Crown, returning it to tangata whenua would be the obvious next step towards meaningful co-governance. The Waitangi Tribunal, or some other, similar, body could be tasked with delimiting Aotearoa’s iwi boundaries as they existed at the time of the Treaty’s signing in February 1840. (Given that many of these boundaries would have been extended, reduced, or eliminated altogether as a consequence of the Musket Wars of the 1820s and 30s, deciding who should get what would likely entail a fair amount of ‘robust’ negotiation!)

   The critical question to be settled in order for this process to succeed is whether a pro-co-governance parliament could rely upon the Police and the NZ Defence Force to enforce its legislative will. That there would be considerable resistance to the government’s plans may be taken as given, with such resistance escalating to terrorism and a full-scale armed rebellion highly likely. With the outbreak of deadly race-based violence, the loyalties of the Police and the NZDF would be tested to destruction.

   https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/01/17/what-is-co-governance/

   Now we have Chris Trotter suggesting that environmental and cultural burdens (at least he does not mentions fair pay industry awards for farm workers or better conditions for migrant workers) might be deliberately placed on landowners because of some design to reduce profits and the value of the land for transfer at lower cost to government to iwi.

   I would have expected the notion to have come from someone in ACT.
5. SPC 5

   20 January 2023 at 12:42 pm

   The Taxpayers Union has done a January poll – it has Labour, Greens and MP at 57 seats and NACT at 63.

   A slight improvement (1 seat), the left block up 0.5% and the right block down 1%.

   https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/taxpayer_update_newsletter_230120?utm_campaign=230112_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=taxpayers
   • Bearded Git 5.1

     20 January 2023 at 9:45 pm

     It's all to play for SPC. Well done for grouping the MP as part of the Left: the MSM does not seem to understand this.

     I think Luxon will make mistakes when under pressure in the campaign…it's part of his DNA
6. joe90 6

   20 January 2023 at 1:26 pm

   Dumb as a fucking thumb.

   https://twitter.com/TheSpinoffTV/status/1616158288609169409
   • bwaghorn 6.1

     20 January 2023 at 1:36 pm

     He's not dumb , he's a gutless vote grabbing stands for nothing climber,who wants the angry woman hating scum to vote for him so won't call them out like any politician with a spine would.
     • joe90 6.1.1

       20 January 2023 at 1:43 pm

       Perhaps I was way too charitable in thinking that he's just a socially inept thumb.
       • weka 6.1.1.1

         20 January 2023 at 1:49 pm

         it's possible he is also this. Bad mix, but with any luck the dumb will cost him the election.
       • bwaghorn 6.1.1.2

         20 January 2023 at 1:50 pm

         Always here to help😁
     • Red Blooded One 6.1.2

       20 January 2023 at 1:47 pm

       
     • weka 6.1.3

       20 January 2023 at 1:48 pm

       nailed it.
     • UncookedSelachimorpha 6.1.4

       20 January 2023 at 2:56 pm

       Doesn't want to alienate his valued misogynist segment of voters.
     • Anne 6.1.5

       20 January 2023 at 3:19 pm

       And claims to be a Christian.

       You are a gem bwaghorn @ 6.1
       • bwaghorn 6.1.5.1

         20 January 2023 at 7:30 pm

         Must be a very uncut one🤣
         • Anne 6.1.5.1.1

           20 January 2023 at 7:38 pm

           Well an uncut one then. 😉
     • Patricia Bremner 6.1.6

       20 January 2023 at 8:46 pm

       Yes bwaghorn, the "snarling" when he first was in Parliament was aimed at the dissidents imo. I think you nailed it.
     • Bearded Git 6.1.7

       20 January 2023 at 9:47 pm

       Say what you think bwag 😀. Excellent.
       • bwaghorn 6.1.7.1

         22 January 2023 at 9:45 am

         Works for me on the net, not so well in the real world.
   • Shanreagh 6.2

     20 January 2023 at 1:57 pm

     OMG talk about minimise and miss the point…..it is not whether you read the twitter pages Mr Luxon and get annoyed, hurt or fearful it is all the rest of us who read them too and

     worry about whether

     our PM is safe

     our country is safe

     we are safe

     NZ has been infiltrated by groups like VFF, hard right wing elements

     our democratic institutions are going to be strong enough to withstand the constant battering from these groups

     our institutions are being called into disrepute

     we will all have to accomodate actions that are not good for us or our souls, ie making compromises that should not be made

     our way of life ie our freedoms that make us different to other countries, and that we love, will be threatened

     I see though he is not alone…..he may have taken guidance on his response from this person, Brigitte Morten, 'Political commentator and former National Party ministerial advisor'. She seems to think that the impact of malicious and despicable tweets/comment is solely limited to the persons spoken of. What a naive view.

     https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/01/helen-clark-s-comments-about-jacinda-ardern-naive-and-condescending-political-commentator-says.html
     • joe90 6.2.1

       20 January 2023 at 2:15 pm

       We could just call it what it is.

       https://twitter.com/Samantharhill/status/1607428412708356097
       • Shanreagh 6.2.1.1

         20 January 2023 at 2:26 pm

         True.

         What do you call someone who minimises the impact of evil though?

         Evil

         Banal

         Yep that will do me!
       • Muttonbird 6.2.1.2

         20 January 2023 at 6:31 pm

         It ties into the paper I linked to earlier today which said there existed an empathy gap between liberals and conservatives.

         Plainly, the political right suffers from a lack of empathy which pervades their whole value system.

         They are dead inside.
         • Graeme 6.2.1.2.1

           20 January 2023 at 8:46 pm

           Right <> Left

           Me <> We
   • Maurice 6.3

     20 January 2023 at 9:35 pm

     Luxon later walked this back with Nicola Willis beside him (on TV News). The body language and facials made it look very much like she had had a few words with him.

     He may even have thought that he was getting a similar serving until told differently.
7. bwaghorn 7

   20 January 2023 at 7:05 pm

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/130932496/pill-dramatically-reduces-cattles-planetheating-burps-says-startup

   A slow release bolus using an organic product to reduce methane by 70%!!!!!
   • SPC 7.1

     20 January 2023 at 7:45 pm

     If this works then we can meet our methane targets without reduction in herd numbers (and export something to reduce such emissions worldwide).

     The delivery mechanism and the months of effectiveness make it viable, provided the animals remain healthy year on year.
     • bwaghorn 7.1.1

       20 January 2023 at 8:12 pm

       A quick Google tells me there a billion cattle in the world, (can't capture the graph to share)

       That's alot of methane, it's a lot of export $ if a kiwi company can sell it world wide.
     • weka 7.1.2

       20 January 2023 at 9:03 pm

       If this works then we can meet our methane targets without reduction in herd numbers (and export something to reduce such emissions worldwide).

       this would be a disaster. The amount of dairy cows we have is polluting ground, aquifers and rivers. It's an unmitigated disaster even without taking CC into account. We have twin crisis: climate and ecology, and dairy farming is the poster boy.

       This is why people talk about system change. The whole system of conventional industrial ag and economics is fundamentally flawed and needs to be redesigned to regenerative.
       • SPC 7.1.2.1

         20 January 2023 at 9:23 pm

         this would be a disaster

         Not for the planet.

         Sure dairy has its impact on waterways/acquifers which we knew about from the impact on North Island lakes, so the conversion of land from sheep farming to dairy in the South Island should have been regulated. We can still plan for water quality restoration to downside dairy herds and manage a move to mixed farming.
     • Drowsy M. Kram 7.1.3

       20 January 2023 at 10:18 pm

       …provided the animals remain healthy year on year.

       Worth a go.

       Benefits and risks of including the bromoform containing seaweed Asparagopsis in feed for the reduction of methane production from ruminants [19 March 2022 – review article]
       In conclusion, this synthesis of the literature suggests that large-scale aquaculture of Asparagopsis, and its application in methane mitigation strategies for ruminants at or near minimum effective inclusion levels, may not negatively impact animal health, food quality, and ozone depletion.

       The Seaweed Eating Sheep of North Ronaldsay

       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromoform
       Bromoform is known as an inhibitor of methanogenesis and is a common component of seaweed. Following research by CSIRO and its spin-off FutureFeed, several companies are now growing seaweed, in particular from the genus Asparagopsis, to use as a feed additive for livestock to reduce methane emissions from ruminants.
   • Patricia Bremner 7.2

     20 January 2023 at 8:50 pm

     That would be brilliant

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