- Date published:
6:00 am, April 20th, 2022 - 80 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:
Open mike is your post.
For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.
The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).
Step up to the mike …
This will piss off a lot of people that had family stuck overseas for Xmas. Not a lot of kindness there.
Government was advised in November there was no longer 'any' justification for MIQ (msn.com)
I came across this link this morning – in reply to something from Judith Collins:
From memory, this was just as we were seeing the coming wave of Omicron, and preparing for it. At that time, (and probably before and since) the priorities of the government were to 1. Slow down infections under Delta; 2. Delay the entry of Omicron, and 3. to ensure that as far as possible our hospitals were not overwhelmed, but at the time and until the pandemic is over.
Was this ''disclosure'' of only part of a story yet another ''dirty tricks'' half-story timed for when the PM is overseas?
Will the government respond with a fuller story? Have they been asked? Are they leaving damage control until a lot more people are convinced the half-story is all there is?
Do we know who requested the correspondence under the OIA?
Good questions Ed1. The timing is impeccable, the interviews with Chris Bishop were all lined up this morning.
It is time the fifth columnists in the Public service and Government Ministries were taken on–co-ordinated leaks not whistleblowing–has been the identifier of Natzo involvement in COVID matters from the start.
Pity that it is rubbish journalism though. But I suppose the antis will grab at anything whether justified or not. Typical attempt at gotcha journalism,
So NZ was supposed to open up wide so that all and sundry could come in for Christmas etc bearing such delights as Omicron etc. Omicron has been bad enough the way it has started and continued let alone it being started like an arson fire with multiple fire starters. Also lacks knowledge of the relationship between Govt and advisers.
For a better take see the latest thread by Mickysavage.
If you were in any doubt that this is poor journalism this word should convince you where the point of the article is…….that is ‘cruel’.
People’s lives are often/always being interrupted by being on the wrong side of laws/regs made by the Govt for the greater good. The changes to things like assets required to purchase a new home or to be eligible for Kainga Ora housing, customs duties etc etc…untold examples.
That you were on the other side is ascribed to luck rather than cruelty as the Govt/regulators were making the best decisions for the greatest number at the time.
Jester, only the self interested or stupid.
Nov 24th was notable for the recognition of Omicron, and naturally, defenses were kept for a time to slow this to allow more vaccinations and understanding of how the new variant would affect the Health system.
Another selection from my gender critical twitter today.
Looking for an investment, I've got a tip for you…
Makes me think that Putin has something of a point when he says the West has become degenerate.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was discovered we're living in an alternative reality
Nah, just the endstages of capitalism where the body is now 'terra nova' to be exploited, mined and harvested. Eggs, babies on specs ordered and delivered, sperm, breast milk from the human lactater, spare parts, a bit of experimental surgery on how to rebuild genitals blown up by IEDs and such.
Frankenstein and his monster comes to mind. Who is the real monster?
have you seen this series?
this episode deals with a prison where sentences are paid of in ‘harvested and regrown organs’. https://killjoys.fandom.com/wiki/Debtor%27s_Colony
it will be a bright future, full of equity and freedom and peace and loverly lullabys.
Maybe he just hasn't got round to it yet
(the contrarian in me rising up again )
I think its the advertising around trans thats forbidden
“Putin has something of a point when he says the West has become degenerate”
I won't link to this directly but this is from a short (3:29min) clip, search on YouTube for
"With the absence of values, society begins to decay"
We have a financial system thats on the brink, housing and food prices unaffordable in most western nations (never mind the developing states) and distrust of the systems under which we live, yet we spend so much energy on 'gender identity'.
say no more.
We have CC to contend with and the possibility of a nuclear holocaust – not to mention Pat's list – yet we have to put up with this nonstop diatribe about gender.
Say no more indeed.
Who would have thunk PR. An interesting statistic of of growth of 4 x seeking surgical intervention.
And of course there will be all the surgeries that go wrong e.g Jazz Jennings who had her neo vagina operation on 4 times.
"Gender reassignment surgery"? I thought according to the current orthodoxy "gender" had nothing to do with physical bodies. How can something non-physical be "reassigned" by surgery?
Utter bullshit peddled by utter charlatans.
Colin Wright; managing editor at Quillette (online space for the anti-feminist by the anti-feminist) makes a tweet about how it is really trans women who are eliminating women's rights? That's pretty unpersuasive to me.
Though the numbered list is a nice touch in making it seem like the sequence is a deliberate scheme, whilst ignoring context. But then I do dislike Twitter generally for its; all headlines, no body; style.
Any yet feminists write there too 🤷♀️ I know this is challenging for some, but there are spaces online where a variety of people write who disagree with each other.
He's not saying that. Trans women didn't do this, gender ideologues and post modernists did, and then progressives adopted it uncritically. Plenty of trans women who don't agree with gender identity ideology.
I disagree with #3 (it's women who point out the conflict of rights), but otherwise it seems on point (allowing for twitter brevity). In NZ there have been at least two government consultations on gender identity that explicitly didn't consult women.
You should hear what people say about TS commenters.
Weka – we seem to have as different conceptions of feminism as we do of womenhood. Though admittedly I avoid Quillette, so may have missed the "feminists" writing there. But here's a description of how the site's founder started off:
He is saying; it is really trans women who are eliminating women's rights, at point #4: "Only consult the male "women" for guidance on how to resolve this conflict". I don't agree with "gender identity ideology" as a term that has any consistent meaning except derision – on a par with "woke" or "cultural marxism". If "Plenty of trans women" (to completely ignore trans men and eNBys) are opposed to this hypothesized Ideology, perhaps you could link to some of them? The trans folk that I know are very a heterogenous cluster of vulnerable people that would be hard-pressed to agree on one particular sociopolitical philosophy worthy of the being referred to as an Ideology.
They're not "feminists", they're feminists. If you're not aware of them, then maybe find out 🤷♀️
Feminism isn't a subset of the left (or progressives or liberals) btw.
Look at who is doing the consulting and then you will understand my point. And his. This is power politics 101.
What term do you prefer people to use?
Sure, see my comment below this one.
GCFs generally don't have an issue with trans men, because the problem is trans women and women's rights conflicts. NBs can be an issue, where they are male and expecting to be accommodated into women's business instead of having their own politics (no-one has ever been able to explain to me why NB males should be allowed in women's space). But often NB males are in the trans women class or the gender ideology side when the politics are being argued.
Exactly (and there are trans people who aren't particularly vulnerable in the way I think you mean). Trans people are a range of people with different beliefs. GCFs are talking about a specific ideology. It's the gender ideologists that are trying to make out that all trans people believe what they do.
GC trans women
Debbie Hayton https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/16319/pdf/
GC trans men
Temp O Reilly the point about Colin's tweet that is true is that they e.g politicians in this country only listened to trans and their allies about the impact of self id on women. Women who were saying hold on a moment, this is going to impact us, ie any man being able to change his birth certificate to say he is a woman, were shunned and vilified. On yeah they even shut down meetings about this legislation that was going to be help in public libraries. The group who opposed this legislation went to the High Court and the judge overturned the councils cancellation. The judge also deemed SUFW are not a hate group.
Anker – my recollection of the SUFW being being barred from using libraries for their meetings was (at least in Dunedin) more due to concern for the wellbeing of other library users.
And why were there such concerns?
Temp O'Rary what do you mean SUFW were banned from libaries more out of concern for the wellbeing of other library users" ? What does that mean?
The meetings were scheduled at the libararies to be held at nights held at night, SUFW took the Palmerston North Council to the High Court, because they said the meeting could only go ahead if there were representatives of the gender ideology community there. In the Palm North case, in terms of holding the SUFW meeting if doesn't look like there were concerns for safety, as they would never suggest the two groups get together if they were.
Christchurch library got the ball rolling by cancelling SUFW. Ironically an old working men's club in Christchurch stepped in and offered the venue. The meeting went very smoothly and some young gender activitists attended and werre welcomed and I understand there was lively debate. No violence.
The high court in Palmerston deemed that the council should allow the meetings to go ahead and that SUFW could not be deemed a hate group (as claimed by people eager to shut down these meetings.
By the way the majority of people in SUFW are Labour/Green voters and are left wing feminists who have been involved in activism over many years. The group is not an anti trans group. It was formed out of concern about a piece of legislation (gender self id), that would allow any man to change his birth certificate to say he was a women. SUFW believe that women have the right to safeguard their spaces such as change rooms, girls boarding school, women's prisons, hostels and sporting competitions. There is countless evidence from countries like the US and the UK where men who identify as women are creating many problems for women e.g Wi-spa incidenct, a rape and sodomy of a 14 year of girls in a US high school bathroom by a trans girl. Prisoners in women's prisons becoming pregnant in the US as trans women are housed in women's prison. This is just a very small collection of a vast body of stories about why gender self id is problematic for women.
That the conflict of rights is approaching violence and this will affect other people.
It's a nonsense when we consider the wider protest culture in NZ. If councils don't know how to run facilities with good security, they need to get their shit together.
Deves is an Australian conservative politician who’s been speaking out on gender issues. Yes, you should be concerned that the right is the one determining the narrative as ideologues have shut down the left via No Debate. But also, women will organise across political lines to protect their interests (this isn’t new). Most gender critical feminists are left or centre left, letting them speak will create a better outcome. Meanwhile,
Biological sec differences are real and matter.
brilliant posts Weka. Yes who else demands to be in a category that they are not part of?
so good, eh. One of those lightbulb arguments.
Biological realities inform our experience of growing up female.
The academia pushing "gender identities" in the social "sciences" are job creation at best and trojan horses at worst.
Great tweet Weka, says it perfectly.
but but the opportunities for getting out of jail cards is endless……
This guy is now a self identified woman. With pig tails. Like grown woman do. Oh my the dear.
A man who hopes to go to prison where the born women are incarcerated. Cause clearly it beats the prison where men get locked up.
it must be the high worn pigtail that made that bloke into a woman. Or maybe the pig tail are the woman thing on that bloke. It is really hard to decide, the eyes say one thing, the brain also says that thing ,but surely we can all see his 'womanhood' that he gained a few weeks ago at the prospect of having to share a cell with a male rather then a woman.
it appears that this guy filmed and mocked 4 cops while they were laying dying after a car crash.
It needs to be stated, of course it does: These are not our crimes. signed, Women, born not worn.
Richard came up at the last patriarky meeting and we decided were more than happy for you to take responsibility for her from now on. Alternatively we are communicating with the Porschiarchy to see if they have a opening. Their only vacancy is for a Porsche owner people actually like.
But Richard is a man my dear Nic the NZder! What's the old saying "Women are not your rehab
Dear patriarchs, we considered your request. Nope, fuck off.
It is hard to like Chris Luxon. He seems a very cold man. Now he complains the Government should stop spending. Perhaps he should stop spending on hired Mercedes for a short ride, and stop buying investment properties. Anything that gives the average person a small benefit or assistance in their daily life he seems determined to get rid of.
A very self-entitled man who is mainly interested in "benefiting" the well off.
mainlyonly interested in "benefiting" the well off." FIFY
Too true. Also wants the "girl" in her place.
Yes, Reality and Barfly, I will never forget the nasty grimaces and snarls about ICU beds he sent across the house directed at the PM. Gimlet eyes full of hate.
Both the government and local government need to identify what new structural spending is needed,and what should be maintained at depreciation levels.
Construction in general is at around 110% of local capacity,adding cost due to delays alone.The additional costs will have to met by increased debt with higher servicing.
If I read Orr correctly he is advocating for increased support for the bottom quintiles AND increased taxation of those who can meet it…..politically dangerous but absolutely needed.
Having said such, I believe the call is about a decade late.
Yes and no.He wants policies that provide direct support,whilst constraining expansion spending.
Housing costs for example have increased 50% under labour.36% over covid.Housing costs are due to over extension of the available capacity,which needs to be constrained in a a high interest,high inflation regime.
Playing around with the RMA,or inner city zoning will not make housing any cheaper,reducing demand by constraining immigration will.
Japan with its low inflation economy was driven by little immigration and demographic changes.This allowed for little housing inflation ( 1.4% above 1992 level) and improvements to transportation and health care based on efficiency.
"Yes and no.He wants policies that provide direct support,whilst constraining expansion spending."
He wants a floor and time….the support is the floor and the tax increases provide the time.
Again ( why does everyone cite Japan, an economy that has a consistant trade surplus, that makes a mulitiude of essential items and continues to do so despite a falling population…the worlds leading robotics economy…..they are not NZ….or anywhere else…they are unique)…we are a one trick pony, in competition witjh many others….ag and hort products (forget tourism, its essentially a net zero game)….we are in trouble, but we are not alone.
So will the taxes go to paying off debt or to increase liquidity further fueling inflation,requiring more OCR rises infintitum.
Increasing immigration into NZ (increased work permits) when we have a rental housing shortage,high inflation, rising interest rates,(3 key parameters for recessions) suggests Government policy is BAU,when we need policy to dampen inflation expectations.
An unsustainable economy post Covid is not a future I like.
The increased tax take could go either way….but without it Orr is stuffed.
And yes it looks like we are going to revert to the previous model quick smart…and we will reap the benefit(?).
Sadly neolibs (for thats what this gov is) trust nothing else…and Im not even sure its trust, it is more likely fear.
The problem that I see coming is going into an election with > 7% mortgage rates,a recession,rising unemployment,and an opposition that will be saying austerity is all we need,and try to sell off O/S the rest of our strategic assets.
Yes, the impending recession will cost Labour the election…it is always so…and the oppostion will fuck everything up (again) so we are destined to years of decline….it is so frustrating having lived through it once before.
The decline may be inevitable but it dosnt need to be as devisive as it was last time….the results of which we still pay for today.
BAU will only have one outcome,now is where the changes need to happen,not from big noting spectacular outcomes that may never happen,but a more distributed economy that will be more resilient to shocks.
When housing prices are some of the highest in the world,and we a re building beyond both production and financial capacity,there needs to be some better thinking.
CoreLogic chief economist Kelvin Davidson said the price increases were occurring as the demand for materials outstripped supply.
Didn't the country go through considerable reductions in immigration just recently? In fact it seems to have basically coincided with the most rapid house price rises.
250000 since Q4 2017.
And increased pressure from both NZ expats, and offshore buyers, who have an eye on NZ as a safe bolthole, for either low taxed land "investment" and/or future residency.
Government spending has gone up in a pandemic…….d'oh!
Who would have thunk PR. An interesting statistic of of growth of 4 x seeking surgical intervention.
And of course there will be all the surgeries that go wrong e.g Jazz Jennings who had her neo vagina operation on 4 times.
Funny how things increase as public acceptance of them expands.
It's almost as if a bunch of folks feel a need to conceal something innate about themselves in order to avoid public discrimination and abuse.
McFlock "funny how things increase as public acceptance of them expands". And then you provide a link about left handedness.
But actually the idea that we can account for the increase in young people (teen girls mostly) identifying as trans because of more acceptance doesn't stack up.
The increase can be attributed to ROGD (rapid onset gender dysphoria)….Teens going to chat rooms on the internet and starting to think they are Trans. We don't actually see older women in their 30s, 40's, 50's 60's or 70's coming out as Trans in increasing numbers.
Pukish put up an interesting interview with a young women about a week ago. This women was influenced to start thinking she was a trans man after visiting websites promoting this. She was too old to block puberty, but started on a large dose of testosterone. All the clinicians she saw only affirmed her new gender identity. She talks about how this process happened and how she was dragged down a rabbit hole. She has now detransitioned and was lucky that she didn't have surgery.
The link about left-handedness also showed the same phenomenon regarding age.
As for the rest, I've been skipping the threads I personally regard as the daily hate. Transphobia, tankies, PRC champions. All of that usual stuff. Skipping it has actually brightened my day and given me free mental space.
Yours was an orphan comment that caught my eye, had a simple point, and an equally simple explanation. Believe whatever you will.
Thanks for continuing to see trans people as people on this site McFlock. Scrolling past "the daily hate" wasn't really working for me, so I had to skip from the platform altogether for a while. Which has also brightened my days and given me free mental space.
However, TS is (or at least, once was) a taonga of the left dating way back to the bygone days of newsprint. It is a shame to see it provide sanctuary for the selfish in this second iteration. So I guess I might bash my head on this brick wall a few more times again, until the headaches become overwhelming. At least until the end of the school holidays, and I can have time in the day to go talk with other adults without constantly having to parent.
👍 McFlock & Temp ORary.
I don't have much time for this site these days. I think it is a shame that it has become a daily outlet for bigotry.
Yes. Accusations of bigotry, have also reduced my perspective of the quality of discourse as well.
I skim the anti trans hate threads as well, & appreciate positive comments from McFlock & Temp ORary.
I've obviously been offline a lot, but missed those 'anti-trans' threads.
(Post a couple of links, and I'll have a belated run at those 'anti-trans' commenters.)
I'm ok with people keeping themselves out of the conversation by labelling it bigotry and scrolling on by, it makes the conversation easier. It's the people that are interested, or don't get it and want to understand that worth the time.
it's bizarre but also funny to see left wing (men) telling women how to do feminism and then calling us bigots because we know the politics better than them. Less funny is blokes telling us that other blokes' need trump ours, and that ours don't matter as much (or at all). This is a long pattern of lw male behaviour, predating the gender/sex wars. I must admit I am surprised to see some of the men adopting this position, but I guess it just reinforces that for some men, feminism is women's politics that they agree with. Would love to see them do that with Māori pol and see how they get on.
It is the same sexism, the difference lays in the ownership model. Private vs public ownership, and funnily enough that is the right/left divide in a nutshell.
I scroll past quite a lot myself, but refrain from making comments solely comprised of accusations. As you say, others have a different approach.
The link about left-handedness is a theory.
A theory that can be tested to see that it accounts for the full increase in those who declare a gender identity. I have no doubts that social acceptance may be one factor.
But until tested for accuracy, the left-handedness comparison is just a theory.
As Anker points out below, there are other factors that need to be tested in this regards too, before determining whether they have played a part or not.
I hope this plonker keeps coming out with shite like this. Fantastic stuff, Mr Luxatron. We need more of it and we know you're the spoon for the job.
Promising to scrap a public holiday is bad enough.
But for real political incompetence, you'd be promising to scrap the holiday that will be enjoyed by voters during the election campaign. And hoping nobody asks you about it?
At least he's made it easy for Ardern to pick a date in 2023.
The Polished Egg ?
Luxon now championing "give a holiday, take a holiday" jars for hospo and retail workers lol
Luxon wants to get rid of Labour Day. Does he think the number of workdays needs to be strictly rationed at [checks notes, 365-11=] 354 days a year? Or could he bought off with a holiday commemorating the ahem hard work and sacrifice of millionaires?
edit lolsnap Chris
Next thing we know is that he’ll propose making Leap Day a Public Holiday for those who leap through hoops every day.
Call it Bureaucracy Day
His pathetic sidekick Goldsmith reckons we don't need Labor day because we don't have a National or Act day!
Where do they find/clone these idiots, there's some wasteful spending right there.
We could have a spit on peons day to make the members of national and act happy.
He figured out it's the ultimate vote loosing decision. So flip-flopping:
Flip Chris Flop Luxon,
Sheesh the opposition can really dig up stupidity of late.
Yes, but the question is are most voters even stupider?
So is Charlotte Bellis safely here in NZ? If not here why did she make such a fuss?
"…For Trevalyn, the relief programs of the previous years which had saved many lives weren't a success, but instead perversion of economic principles…"
A quote about the Irish famine of 160 years ago, but one completely relevant to the modern settler elite and their MSM mouthpieces in our country and their ideological stance on this government's covid response.
If you want to understand ideological drivers of the anti-covid response crowd from Hoskings the Mayor of Queenstown to a plethora of other fellow travellors what this video, I think it is a description of what ACT and may from the big end of town agree with and what Luxon and co really think, and most likely the view held of the Irish by the English is a widepread view amongst the setter class towards Maori and PI.