Open mike 20/09/2021

40 comments on “Open mike 20/09/2021 ”

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1. Jenny how to get there 1

   20 September 2021 at 6:59 am

   The loss of nerve, the death of kindness.

   The decision has been all but made.

   The forces of mammon will be satiated

   https://mythology.net/demons/mammon/

   The lockdown will be lifted whether the virus is still circulating in the community or not.
   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300410891/covid19-three-people-test-positive-for-virus-in-waikato

   Excuses will be made;

   There will be lots of talk about the harm the lockdown is causing small business and families, struggling with rents and mortgages and unpaid bills.

   Phrases like 'Lockdown fatigue' and maybe possibly even 'living with the virus' will be mentioned.

   This Labour government is not like the First Labour goverment. Which brought in a rent and mortgage moratorium to help people get over the hard times.

   There will be no rent or mortgage moratorium this time to help people see out the lockdown and eliminate the virus.

   There will be no conscription of capital as well as labour to beat the enemy.

   Vaccination will get a big mention, as it should. But the number needed to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity and eliminate the virus, will be left as a vague target.

   Instead of enjoying a virus free summer we deserve, we will have a summer of sickness.

   But at least the Aussie owned banks will be happy.

   Lockdowns work we needed one more week.
   • Gezza 1.1

     20 September 2021 at 7:26 am

     Well, Jenny – you may be right.

     If I get Covid, even 2x vaccinated, I suspect it’s going to knock me about pretty badly.
     I’ll just have to be extra careful to continue any & all other safety measures after lockdown’s lifted – like rigorous hand-washing/sanitising after every trip out to the supermarket, and social distancing wherever I go.

     But a decision to lift the Auckland Level 4 lockdown hasn’t been announced yet, has it? You yet might get your one more week.

     Have you emailed your concerns to Ardern & Hipkins at their Parliament addresses?

     I don’t think any decision to lift the Auckland lockdown will be made lightly. If it goes wrong & community outbreaks crank up again there’ll be hell to pay.
   • garibaldi 1.2

     20 September 2021 at 8:32 am

     I fear you are right Jenny. It was basically all over once the virus got into the "down and out" sector of our 35 year neoliberal disaster. Brace yourselves.
   • Patricia Bremner 1.3

     20 September 2021 at 9:12 am

     Any hope of lifting this tomorrow has a caveat. A new outbreak means they will need till Friday to test and trace all possible contacts, especially as a school is involved.

     This is a difficult beast to deal with, and mistakes may be costly. Sacrifices made 'till now will be negated if we lift levels too soon, and Christmas may be a nightmare.

     Jacinda Ardern has always followed the science along with cabinet and our excellent experts in the field.

     Yes a few people have started to kick and scream, but they are a minority mainly being picked up by police. Along with a group in hospitality, their voices are being amplified by some sections of the press.

     Polls have consistently shown the public support this system of dealing with the virus. "In principle" means "unless something untoward happens".

     Waikato is the something IMO. I think we will have an extension until Friday. Waikato may be locked down as well.

     Whoever from the coutrs gave permission for a L4 person to go to L2 needs to front up with an explanation,
     • Treetop 1.3.1

       20 September 2021 at 10:59 am

       The latest lockdown level 4 was to ensure as many as possible get vaccinated and to take pressure off the health system. Then to try and contain Covid. Containing the Delta strain has that many curve balls at L4 that anything less is a big risk. The problem is that L4 is not sustainable at a point.
   • Gezza 1.4

     20 September 2021 at 3:16 pm

     Good to see. A little late, perhaps, but better late than never !

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/451905/maori-king-and-other-leaders-endorse-pfizer-vaccine
     • Jenny how to get there 1.4.1

       20 September 2021 at 4:31 pm

       Yes this is good news. Everything I have read about pandemic control, emphasises the role of leadership.

       Practice has confirmed that theory,
2. Sanctuary 2

   20 September 2021 at 7:41 am

   It seems to me that it is obvious to keen observers that this long covid tail is because the "mystery" cases are all emanating from within the criminal community that surrounds gangs, a group of people with every reason to actively avoid testing, tracking and tracing.

   Keeping that secret to avoid a situation where people turn on each other is laudable, but it also leads directly to situation like what we've discovered today has happened – a known criminal bailed from level 4 Auckland to a household of eight people in level 2 Waikato.

   I am willing to give corrections the benefit of the doubt and say they were not in full possession of the facts due to said secrecy, but even then – who on God's good earth thought that was a good idea?? People can't cross the border for funerals and important work, yet corrections – presumably for it's own administrative convenience – thought it was hunky dory to send a high risk for covid exposure prisoner to Thames??? Jesus wept.

   Tough call, but the politics means that Kelvin Davis will need to resign if this f*ck up leads to a significantly longer lockdown.
   • Cricklewood 2.1

     20 September 2021 at 7:58 am

     Yeah seems completely nonsensical, be interested to know if he a least was had a negatvie covid test before being bailed into the Waikato. If a test wasnt done at all I think Kelvins should step down… that said ministerial responsibility isnt what it used to be…
   • weka 2.2

     20 September 2021 at 8:31 am

     a known criminal bailed from level 4 Auckland to a household of eight people in level 2 Waikato.

     where did you get that he was bailed from Auckland to Waikato? The media reporting on this case is confused.
     • weka 2.2.1

       20 September 2021 at 8:38 am

       Found this,

       The man who tested positive was released from Mount Eden prison, to a home in Whakatiwai in the Firth of Thames.

       https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126428929/covid19-live-waikato-cases-linked-to-existing-cluster-decision-on-alert-levels-today

       so on the 8th he went from prison in Auckland to a home in Waikato where he was electronically monitored. On the 17th he presented himself at a police checkpoint, why?

       Afaik prisons have a high degree of protection eg new prisoners are treated like people arriving at the border, 14 days MiQ.
       • Cricklewood 2.2.1.1

         20 September 2021 at 8:49 am

         Information is a bit scarce, Grant Robertson said it was a matter for the court as to why he was bailed into the Waikato… suspect there will be a whole heap of fingerpointing going on if a number of cases emerge.

         As you say prisoners going in are effectively quarantined but I suspect going the other way is more difficult for corrections once a judge grants bail etc there's probably very little thay can do outside of the bail conditions specified by the judge. Its potentially a glaring gap in the system also wondering if prior to travelling he had a covid test or if returning a negative test was a condition of bail.
         • weka 2.2.1.1.1

           20 September 2021 at 9:09 am

           It would be good if they could release that generic information sooner rather than later, but I agree there is like to be butt covering concerns while they figure out what happened.
       • Sabine 2.2.1.2

         20 September 2021 at 10:21 am

         New Prisoners may have to quarantine, but Prison Staff come and go and they may or may not be vaccinated fully, and they may or may not risk being carriers whilst being a-sypmtomatic.
       • veutoviper 2.2.1.3

         20 September 2021 at 11:20 am

         RNZ have a number of reports on this case which include very specific details of this man's movements, contacts with police, other prisoners and Corrections staff as well as the protocols used by Corrections at Mt Eden.

         This one in particular is useful in this regard:

         https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/451839/three-new-cases-in-waikato-connected-to-remand-prisoner
         • weka 2.2.1.3.1

           20 September 2021 at 11:44 am

           I read RNZ yesterday and today and found them weirdly confusing. I've yet to see a timeline written out.

           It's probably harder from down here to make sense of things when MSM use local names and don't explain where those places are.
           • KJT 2.2.1.3.1.1

             20 September 2021 at 4:30 pm

             Almost right on the boundary, Waikato Auckland. State highway 2.

             Mangatangi/Miranda area.
             • weka …

               20 September 2021 at 4:34 pm

               I don't know what that means.

               MSM have been reporting as if people know where places are, what level they are in etc.
           • Jenny how to get there 2.2.1.3.1.2

             20 September 2021 at 8:41 pm

             I got to know that community very well having fought a successful three year campaign to stop the Mangatangi open cast coal mine project.

             I spent a lot of petrol driving all over the area to knock on every door in Mangatangi and Mangatawhiri to organise the local community to oppose the project.

             I organised meetings to oppose the coal mine at the Mangatangi Marae and Mangatawhiri Community Hall.
             I got to know the Ngati Tamaoho well and was made honoury Kaitiaiki of the marae.

             At the community meeting in the Mangatawhiri Hall the American Coal Mine manager Sue Bonham-Carter who had been hired to manager the mine, told me, my father was a coal miner and his father was a coal miner, you will never stop our coal mine. I told her, you are in New Zealand now, we stopped nuclear ships, we stopped the subdivision of Bastion Point, we will stop your coal mine. And we did.

             I fell in love with the area. It is a pretty, pretty place with lots of dairy farms and trees and streams. If the huge open cast coal mine had gone ahead it would have been visible from State Highway 2 you couldn' miss it and everyone would know where Mangatangi was.

             I am glad we saved it, and nobody knows where it is.

             I feel so sad that this has happened there.
             • weka …

               20 September 2021 at 9:07 pm

               Good story Jenny, thanks.
   • Treetop 2.3

     20 September 2021 at 11:08 am

     I will throw into the ring a shortage of housing for the person paroled to stay in. Placing the person in a level 2 zone was a big blunder.
     • Craig Hall 2.3.1

       20 September 2021 at 3:37 pm

       Epidemics and Covid don't feature in the Bail Act, so moving someone from a remand prison in level 4 to an address in level 2 isn't really envisaged as a reason not to do it provided the bail address meets the general requirements of the Bail Act.
   • Craig Hall 2.4

     20 September 2021 at 3:42 pm

     The Court sets the bail conditions for electronic monitoring, not Corrections, and Covid/Epidemics are not mentioned in the Bail Act, so Covid levels aren't a consideration other than practicality of whether conditions can be monitored/met. There is the ability to set temporary addresses e.g. Jetpark, but that only helps if the person tests positive.
3. RosieLee 3

   20 September 2021 at 7:46 am

   I thought I heard on the news this morning that nz had opted out of signing up to an accord to ban deep sea mineral/oil drilling, but I can't find it in print anywhere. Any clues?
   • Gezza 3.1

     20 September 2021 at 9:42 am

     Found this, RosieLee:
     https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO2109/S00194/nz-abstains-on-global-seabed-mining-moratorium-vote-at-iucn.htm
     • Grafton Gully 3.1.1

       20 September 2021 at 10:14 am

       Should suit a company like CRP.

       "Our objectives remain to:

       • Achieve consent of the Chatham Rise project and develop the asset
       • Maximise value of the resource for NZ, including identifying and developing extraction methods for valuable rare earths contained in our permit area
       • Diversify our product mix to include other phosphate resources
       • Maintain our involvement at the forefront of the marine minerals sector to leverage our expertise as a project pioneer
       • Develop a pathway for CRP products for the agricultural and retail sectors"

       http://www.rockphosphate.co.nz/
     • RosieLee 3.1.2

       20 September 2021 at 12:18 pm

       
4. roblogic 4

   20 September 2021 at 8:30 am

   China’s ponzi scheme is looking shaky, could crash the global economy.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/chinese-housing-giant-unable-to-pay-debts-and-could-wreck-global-economy/5CFU72UJR7NZUSIMEYO6NT22UM/
   • Nic the NZer 4.1

     20 September 2021 at 8:37 am

     1) Chinese govt will bail them out in some form anyway.

     2) Chinas financial system is relatively isolated from the US anyway, and most countries don't depend on China for demand that much.
     • roblogic 4.1.1

       20 September 2021 at 2:38 pm

       “most countries don’t depend on China”

       We do, and so does Australia. This one could finally pop the invincible NZ/Aus/Can housing bubble, fuelled as it is by massive capital flows from China. The Yuan/RMB has been printed at Zimbabwe levels for decades, even more than the trillions of USD that Washington has splashed around
   • tc 4.2

     20 September 2021 at 1:52 pm

     Relax it's copy/paste jonolism from granny.

     Lazy as usual china will take care of that as it's what they do i.e. look after their people.
   • Ad 4.3

     20 September 2021 at 2:13 pm

     Bond risk calculations are rising fast, cross-contamination defaults in China highly likely, and you can bet 100% that the Chinese state will have gamed-out whether to intervene hard or let it die.

     https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/17/china-developer-evergrande-debt-crisis-bond-default-and-investor-risks.html

     While our last financial crisis was 13 years ago, we haven't had a financial crisis multiplied by a Chinese financial crisis+global pandemic+global supply chain crush simultaneously.

     Places which are safe from disease and also safe from conflict – like ourselves – will be in higher and higher demand …… if the potential High Net Worth immigrant can get here.
5. tc 5

   20 September 2021 at 10:04 am

   WSJ have dropped the Facebook files….growth above all else.

   20% of vax posts are anti-vax amongst other gems from a corporation above scrutiny doing as it damn well pleases.
6. Gezza 6

   20 September 2021 at 10:47 am

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hK5VltDYvRY

   This valley is believed to hold the 2nd largest copper ore deposit in the world.

   The former Afghan govt signed a 30 year lease for China to extract the ore, but they never did.

   As China moves to engage with the Taliban, it is setting its sights on Afghanistan's vast mineral resources.

   The interim government wants Chinese recognition so that mining can begin.

   The plans could threaten some of the nation's archaeological treasures.

   Al Jazeera’s Charles Stratford reports from Mes Aynak, Afghanistan -3.36 min
7. Gezza 7

   20 September 2021 at 2:28 pm

   Good to see another Kiwi Director picking up an industry award:

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/451899/nz-director-of-the-crown-jessica-hobbs-wins-outstanding-director-emmy-award
   • Muttonbird 7.1

     20 September 2021 at 2:45 pm

     It is good and congratulations to her.

     But the NZ screen industry is under immense pressure because of Covid. It takes years to train people to the highest level. I understand why our pandemic response hasn't had much certainty to this point, but productions cannot operate without it.

     Without productions, both foreign and domestic, crew from top to bottom will disappear either overseas or into other industry, and no new generation of screen workers will be forthcoming.

     Broadly, film and TV is consumed in huge quantities but it is very competitive and NZ risks long term damage if we don't soon begin to work out our future pandemic strategy.
     • Gezza 7.1.1

       20 September 2021 at 4:24 pm

       Thanks. 👍🏼
8. Joe90 8

   20 September 2021 at 3:54 pm

   Tl;dr the stupidest shit on the webs today – the left has tricked RWNJs into not vaccinating so RWNJs will carc it and not vote.

   https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/09/10/nolte-howard-stern-proves-democrats-want-unvaccinated-trump-voters-dead/amp/
   • Andre 8.1

     20 September 2021 at 4:00 pm

     Hey, if that actually works to get some of the idiots vaccinated, I for one will stand and applaud him. No matter how stupid it is.
   • Pete 8.2

     20 September 2021 at 6:08 pm

     It's all a Democrat plot hatched in the basement of some pizzeria by Hillary Clinton.

     Now if I can drop a laptop into some blind computer repair technician in Arkansas with a few leading things on it suggesting that that is what happened it's bound to make it's way to be the most explosive story in the history of the world. Rudi will tuck his tie in and Tucker Carlson will be right into it.

     Carlson of course talks people into not getting vaccinated. Undoubtedly some who follow and take notice of him have end up unvaccinated and dead from Covid.

     Numbers of radio and other TV people and pastors who have encouraged people to not get vaccinated have died. That's got to be the fault of the Democrats. Then again, maybe it's God's will.

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