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Open mike 20/05/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 20th, 2012 - 92 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

92 comments on “Open mike 20/05/2012 ”

  1. Yesterday, after proof was provided, Eddie accepted he and Zetetic were wrong in their accusations against Dunne and UF on asset sales.

    There’s more proof: http://thestandard.org.nz/dunne-angry/comment-page-1/#comment-473563

    But there’s also proof that Eddie doesn’t know how to admit something graciously:

    The fact that I knew Dunne was being a duplicitous son of a bitch in avoiding (save once) giving an express opinion on National’s asset sales programme does not mitigate the fact he was refusing to be open about it.

    That’s pretty hissy- and again proven to be wrong. Plus he made an accusation claimed as fact that has no facts to back it up.

    And he made yet another accusation:

    You know this, Pete. You ran the UF line and repeatedly refused to express support National’s asset sales programme on this site.

    I’ll leave my exact words elsewhere (and have also compiled Eddie’s exact words) because there’s a risk using them here: “Eddie” digs dirt deeper

    I’m still waiting for Eddie to operate to the same standards he demanded of me under threat, to front up with proof.

    IrishBill: Yes, Eddie was wrong but it’s a blog, pete, I think you’re losing perspective. I’m tempted to give you a week off so you can go out, get some sun and have a think about whether spending every waking hour you have on the blogz is the healthiest way to spend your life. However I think that’s choice you need to make for yourself.

    • There is nothing worse than being a gloater Pete.

      So are you also willing to admit that you are occasionally wrong? 

      • Pete George 1.1.1

        Yes, I’m willing to admit I am sometimes wrong. But I try to avoid admitting I’m wrong and then repeating making factless assertions.

        I’m not gloating, I’m simply asking for Eddie to be held to account like he held me to account.

        Are you willing to admit that people in politics should be held to account?

        • mickysavage

          Held to account?

          For what Petey?

          The only thing I am acknowledging is that in the mass of poorly prepared and worded soundbites that is the United Follicle policy it is possible he sort of said that he would support the sale of some of our most important strategic assets.  

          Jumping up and down about what he did or did not sort of say is a waste of time as the important point is that he will be complicit in one of the most stupid decisions a New Zealand Government ever makes.

          And your gloating and “gocha politics” that you are engaging in is not endearing.  Try debating the big issues.

          Cry me a river Petey. 

          • Pete George

            Ok, try this then. I think this is a big issue.

            Do you think openess and honesty is important in politics and in parties?

            IrishBill: You’ve been here long enough to know that making shit up to attack authors is a banning offence. You can take that week off now.

            • Bill

              Pete. From the first part of your link. (The rest being scurrilous bullshit) The posts here are opinions. Opinions can be wrong. Opinions can (and often are) based on taking available facts and constructing conclusions from them. That’s an entirely legitimate and natural process. And if a pertinent fact is overlooked, then the opinion will be mistaken. And if said pertinent fact is brought up in comments, then the reader can alter their judgement of the original opinion (and consequently their own opinion) accordingly.

              It’s called a learning process.

              Attempting to smear authors because their opinions haven’t taken all available facts into account (as though they should be aware of all available facts!) is fucking ridiculous and would be a reasonable cause for a ban being applied (imo).

              But just you carry right on with that there crusade, why don’t you?

              • Bill – that’s if they’re just personal opinions.

                “You ran the UF line and repeatedly refused to express support National’s asset sales programme on this site” doesn’t sound like an opinion to me. It’s a very specific accusation. With no facts.

                And it’s not me trying to smear an author.

                Can you clarify what you think would be “reasonable cause for a ban”?

                • Bill

                  Pete. I’m not known for applying bans willy-nilly. I’m kind of tolerant…maybe even over tolerant. Your link was nothing but scurrilous b/s. At the point you allow your self-rightiousness to ‘bleed’ that shit over onto the site proper, then under the ‘policy’ and ‘about’ criteria, your gone.

                  You have read the ‘policy’ and ‘about’, haven’t you?

                  Oops. Seems a less than ‘over- tolerant’ moderator was on-line. Oh well.

              • Jackal

                The issue is whether the general public was mislead by Peter Dunne regarding his stance on asset sales prior to the last election… and from an outside perspective, they most definitely were:

                Provided we never move to sell Kiwibank, Radio NZ or our water resources, we would be prepared to support that policy.

                ~ Peter Dunne October 30, 2011

                Much of New Zealand’s water resource is being included in National’s MOM privatisation model and the Māori Council has lodged a claim in the Waitangi Tribunal relating to the rights to the water used by the companies on the block.

            • Hanswurst

              It’s quite amusing how you go to great lengths claiming that Eddie and Zetetic don’t provide evidence for a couple of statements (that are in themselves hardly Earth-shattering), then segue into some rather strong insinuations about their identities with no evidence apart from a reference to somebody else referencing some unsubstantiated hearsay from “about the blogosphere. It’s quite clear that the identity speculation, and not honest fact-checking, was your aim all along – a fairly clumsy post, really.

              • It’s quite clear that the identity speculation, and not honest fact-checking, was your aim all along

                See what you’ve done there? And you’re wrong. Clumsy.

                • Hanswurst

                  The difference is that I’m just some idle Joe with no real connection to politics, reading your nonsense and scratching my head, wheareas you’re a wannabe lawmaker putting up a blog post and linking to it proudly as though it were some kind of revelation.

            • NickS

              IrishBill: You’ve been here long enough to know that making shit up to attack authors is a banning offence. You can take that week off now.


              No spam to wade through!

        • tc

          Sometimes wrong or admit sometimes, they’re not the same.

          Can we get clarity on that please Petey, perhaps a link to your policy on honesty and admission.

        • Bill

          “Are you willing to admit that people in politics should be held to account?”

          Are you saying you not understand the difference between somebody blogging political opinions and somebody ‘in politics’?

          • Pete George

            It depends on who’s behind those “opinions”. If those opinions are just personal views, then there’s little accountability. But if an identity was a front for a political organisation, or a part of a political organisation, then acountability matters.

            If I found that United Future had anything like an operation that promoted deliberate distortions or lies and tried to smear other MPs and parties using anonymous indentities purporting to be personal opinions, and kept that secret, I’d be very annoyed, and I’d do something about it.

            I’d be surprised if members of other parties didn’t think similarly. The Greens, for example, reacted quickly and properly when a party member in Hamilton promoted his wife’s story to media without disclosing his connections.

            • Bill

              Bearing in mind the insinuations contained in the link you put up this morning and reading your comment in that light, I’ve one gentle suggestion for you. Fuck off and read the ‘about’ link and the ‘policy’ links on this page..

    • Te Reo Putake 1.2

      Pompous git much, Pete? Last time I looked, The Standard authors were under no obligation to do anything, especially not at the behest of a Tory tool like yourself. Still, it was great to see you sweat and have to work for a change to justify your party’s support of National’s most unpopular policy.
      If you are that confident of your position, Pete, why don’t we test your presence here democratically? You ask a lot of inane questions, so why not ask a pertinent one for a change and see if the readership believe you should be allowed to continue to poison this site?

      • Bill 1.2.1

        Pete. The treatment you were subjected to was atrocious – I’m no fan of people ‘ganging up’ on commenters. And the bar that you were asked to clear to avoid being banned was ludicrous. (There are many, many assertions made in comments that are not backed by indesputable hard evidence and to apply that bar across the board would see a number of commentators disappear.)

        But you know what? Time to drop it Pete. Let it go.

      • BillODrees 1.2.2

        Why bother with this sanctimonious fool? He obliviously has too much time on his hands.  Anyone who sees Peter Dunne as a pin-up boy has lost the plot.  

      • felix 1.2.3

        If there’s to be voting, then I vote in favour of Pete. He can be annoying but so can lots of people. Doesn’t make him the devil.

        And he provides lots of opportunities for disagreement. And sometimes he brings up interesting things that others have missed. And he acknowledges clean players across the spectrum from where he sits. And I like stirrers. And god loves a trier.


    • Blue 1.3

      You got lucky, Pete. Don’t try to pretend it was anything more.

      You personally couldn’t produce evidence that Peter Dunne said he would support National’s proposed asset sales. Insider did it for you.

      You personally could not prove what your own party leader’s position on a major issue was, and then you try to say that the voting public knew exactly what that position was.

      Obviously Peter Dunne’s position was not widely known if it was that hard to find media coverage of it. But that’s partly because the media don’t cover United Future very much because no one cares what they think about anything.

      The media were panting about how Key was going to govern alone and no one expected Dunne to end up as the sole tipping vote in the asset sales fiasco.

      There’s a lesson here for the journos about not counting their chickens, and one for you about not pushing your luck. And probably one for the voters of Ohariu about not voting for a National party pollie in drag to try and rort the electoral system by possibly sneaking in a few extra MPs.

  2. Carol 2

    I’m glad the Commerce Commission is investigating Sky. The limited coverage of sport on free-to-air TV has pretty much killed off the interest in watching sports that I once had.


    The Commerce Commission is being urged to widen its investigation into Sky Television to include the pay-TV network’s dealings with taxpayer-funded national sport organisations.

    Labour MP Clare Curran and former deputy prime minister Jim Anderton both expressed strong concern to the Sunday Star-Times about “rapacious” demands Sky enforces on sports bodies for coverage of their events, and its monopoly of the broadcast market.

    The pair said Sky’s actions were undermining New Zealand’s ability to secure major international sporting events.

    In recent years, Sky has begun demanding fees from national sports organisations to broadcast their events.

    Sport should be a leisure activity and available to all to participate in and watch. The way capitalism turns everything into a market commodity undermines the community good.

    I’d rather see and participate in less professionally-honed, and less globalised sports events than the way it’s become professionalised, pricing the less well-off out of the market.

    Broadcast media also worked as a community focus in the early-to-mid 20th century. Commodification has gone hand-in-hand with the fragmentation of communities.

    • dd 2.1

      I agree, I used to be a huge rugby fan and go to eden park pretty often. Since sky taking over all rights to the game I hardly know whose doing well and whose not so have zero interest in going to a match.

      • OneTrack 2.1.1

        Sky is stopping you actually going to the games? I know they are good but I didn’t realize they were that good. But, of course, the government should stop them.

        • dd

          The less you see of something the less you care.

          There’s a reason AFL is so popular in Victoria, you can’t help but know what is going on as it is on tv free to air all of the time.

          • Tigger

            Tony O’Brien, SKY’s lobbyist will be doing the rounds to ensure Ministers quash any proper analysis of SKY ‘s utter monopoly in NZ. Sport is just the start, quality TV drama is next (already well on the way to getting a monopoly there) and then they’ll set their sights on news… so when will a government act?

    • Shaz 2.2

      All the more reason for Wellington based folk to come along to the SAVE TVNZ7 PUBLIC MEETING

      Local MP Grant Robertson will be hosting a public meeting to talk about the future of public broadcasting in New Zealand. Its tomorrow Monday 21st May, 7pm, at the Wesley Church Hall on Taranaki Street.

      The meeting will be moderated by Wallace Chapman and speakers include Clare Curran, Tom Frewen, Sue Kedgley and Dr Peter Thompson.

    • Descendant Of Smith 3.1

      I see that Senate Communications will be selling our assets. It’s a co-incidence of course that Jenny Shipley pops up again in connection with one of the partners as does Bill English, Skycity and John Banks. Quite a few of their staff also seem to be ex-Domnion Post staff.

      They seem to get a fair bit of government work they do.

      Raphael Hilbron – Partner

      A former journalist, Raphael worked for The Dominion newspaper and in various public sector roles before moving into politics where he worked as a press secretary in former Prime Minister Jenny Shipley’s office.

      David Cormack

      While at University, David was an intern in then opposition MP Bill English’s office, doing research, media releases and general administrative duties.’

      Scott Campbell

      Before joining Senate, Scott was General Manager of SKYCITY’s Corporate Communications, where he was responsible for building and maintaining the company’s reputation with key stakeholders, including the media, politicians, iwi and opinion leaders.

      Prior to this, Scott was employed by then Auckland City Mayor John Banks, as his Media and Communications Advisor for the Super City elections.

      • prism 3.1.1

        Good information DoS. Makes you think innit!

      • muzza 3.1.2

        Nice DoS.

        Thing is this is nothing at all new, as most here will realise. The tertiary systems are where the most likely to brown nose sycophants are found and given their roles and responsibilities into the wider programme, certainly in the are where the public and private services cross over..

        Why do we see so much interchanging between the same companies, people involved, then back to the private sector they go, or of to join the jolly alongside the ex ministers and the like. Troughers and sycophants travel together and follow each other around, hence why the revolving doors…

        Frankly its all rather nauseating that these people and their hangers on, end up having such negative impacts on the vast majority, and it is what needs to stop!

  3. dd 4

    How does Pete G afford to live? Does he get paid per post?

    • I wish. Like most bloggers and commenters, it costs time and money. But some people are lucky enough to have jobs that pay them to comment on blogs.

      • mickysavage 4.1.1

        And some people arn’t.

      • Carol 4.1.2

        But some people are lucky enough to have jobs that pay them to comment on blogs.

        Really!? You’re paid to clutter up this blog with your spam?

        Am I the only one who thinks there’s something wrong with that?

        I see this as a mainly a place for people to discuss political issues in their non-work time.

        • Pete George

          If you read my comment properly you’ll see I’m not paid. It costs me.

          IrishBill: well you’re banned now. Consider me your budgetary salvation.

          • Te Reo Putake

            Not as much as it costs the rest of us.

          • Carol

            Why do you need to bury the meaning within a vague and misleading statement? Why not just clearly and directly state the truth?

            • dd

              Is it common practice for the Nats to hire people to spam forums and pages like stuff.co.nz?

              I’m sure there must have been a bit of this going on during the elections. Maybe even on both sides.

          • Dv

            Thanks irish, how long?

            • IrishBill

              Pete’s got a week ban. However having looked at the thread he was gloating about I’ve decided it’s time to moderate a little harder for a while – as annoying as Pete is it’s more annoying to me to see commenters descend into sustained abuse rather than debate. I’ve no intention of allowing the TS comment threads become as unpleasant and unwelcoming as Kiwiblog’s.

              • insider

                So you are blaming the victim….nice

                • IrishBill

                  Pete got banned for making shit up about authors. Anyone who does that gets time out. As you well know. However, before he stepped over the mark he got grief that I think was out of line and I intend to do something about that.

                  • insider

                    where did he make something up? on another blog? pretty tough new standard you are imposing, especially if you are planning on consistency. Given Eddie and Zetectic are anonymous its going to be a bit hard to enforce.

                    • IrishBill

                      He posted the link here. It would be inconsistent to ignore that – or should I not moderate otherwise polite commenters who link to hate sites, porn, site advertising timeshare apartments or other things we don’t directly allow in the threads here?

                      Now, could you please explain how the anonymity of some authors affects the enforceability of my moderating policy? Because I don’t follow your argument at all.

                    • felix

                      Apart from the link, he’s implied the same things about Eddie and Z in several comments here over the last couple of days.

                      About 4 times that I’ve noticed.

                  • I accept I was tiptoeing a line so accept the ban, it’s your right and it doen’t seem unfair in the circumstances. I dispute some of the facts but that’s irrelevant.


                    • Te Reo Putake

                      “I accept I was tiptoeing a line so accept the ban, it’s your right and it doen’t seem unfair in the circumstances.” PG on TS at 11.06.
                      “Authors making shit up is acceptable there (they do it with impunity), speaking openly and honestly is abused and banned.” PG on KB ten minutes earlier.

                      IrishBill: Pete’s taking a week off now. Let’s let this one go, eh?

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Will do. Cheers, IB.

          • Vicky32

            IrishBill: well you’re banned now. Consider me your budgetary salvation.

            Even though I am no fan of PG, why on earth have you banned him? It seems unfair to me.

  4. Aren’t you banned Pete 🙂

    • insider 5.1

      he is now. Truth hurts….

      • IrishBill 5.1.1

        I’m not sure I like what you’re insinuating. Would you care to elucidate on what “truth” you’re talking about?

        • insider

          It appears to me he got banned twice for being annoyingly correct rather than any real offence. Plenty on here have had their motives questioned and their funding with not a murmur of a ban. Plenty have done so on other blogs without bans. I think you’re a bit trigger happy iun this case

          • IrishBill

            I’m pretty sure I banned him for attacking authors on their anonymity rather than their argument. As has been policy for a long time. Now, what “truth” were you referring to?

  5. captain hook 6

    up against the wall mutha!

  6. joe90 7

    With the clowns in charge readying themselves to head down their own ideological path this article about teacher evaluation seems to be particularly relevant.

    • Dv 7.1

      But they so got national standard so right, so teacher performance pay will be easy peasy

    • ianmac 7.2

      Poor folk. It could mean that a mediocre teacher who did not fail below his expectations would therefore be not a failure.Eh? Disaster!

  7. What is the Labour leadership doing (wrong) ?
    Today’s Sunday Star Times, who are one of our greatest supporters, has only Green MP’s on their pages, again.
    Where are our leaders ?

  8. Treetop 9

    Does anyone think that Collins needs to be replaced as the Minister of ACC due to there being an unhealthy culture at ACC?

    Part of the unhealthy culture is a minister being so focused on her own personal issues connected with an ACC complainant that I feel the minister is being distracted. We saw the very unhealthy culture within the police regarding sexual misconduct and the then Police Minister King did not muck about when an individual was being silenced by a government department. Then sadly when Collins was the Minister of Police the Bazley recommendations were not prioritised.

    • Anne 9.1

      The unhealthy culture inside ACC began with the change of government in Nov.2008. Up until then it was a govt. run agency whose sole focus was to help people recoup their physical and/or mental health after an accident or traumatic experience – exactly as was envisaged by Geoffrey Palmer. Now with the change of emphasis its’ slowly drifting towards yet another money grubbing privately owned insurance company. At least that is what it will end up being… unless we have a change of government in 2014.

      I remember the same process taking place at WINZ during the 1990s with the change of culture being lead by the dreadful Christine Rankin. Fortunately the change of govt. in Nov.1999 saw the end of that woman – at least as the CEO of a govt. agency. It’s interesting that both Rankin and her mate, Paula Bennett were recipients of help and a leg-up when they were young and having it tough. As soon as they grabbed the reins of power it became a… pox on all you welfare bludgers and if you dare to complain, we’ll make trouble for you!

      • Treetop 9.1.1

        By the next election it is going to be a toss up between ACC or WINZ having the sickest culture.

      • Half Crown Millionare 9.1.2

        Well said Anne

      • deuto 9.1.3

        Anne, I also support your assessment although I believe that the present culture in ACC in particular goes back well beyond 2008 but perhaps came to the fore (again) in 2008. I worked for a govt agency (and was indirectly involved in overseeing ACC and cleaning up the mess resulting from the introduction and then closing down of competition from private providers) in the first half of the 2000s. IMO this episode had resulted in a loss of direction from the original concepts of the ACC scheme and a culture within the organisation of seeing the organisation as a private provider of insurance and separate from the public service per se etc. This was evidenced by the glossy public documents (Annual Reports, Statements of Intent etc) and the expenditure on these and other internal things, and the attitudes of senior management and staff. I also saw this in the attitudes of many ex-staff I met in other jobs/govt agencies etc. subsequently – that is that ACC was private sector rather than public sector – and this attitude carried over by some ex-ACC personnel to some very core public sector organisations and their reason for being.

        Re-WINZ, I also recall the things I heard and saw under the Rankin administration – enough said!

  9. captain hook 10

    who read michael laws colum today.
    first he bleated about not being slected for training college.
    I wonder why?
    they obviously saw something.
    then he made a plea for hekia parata.
    then he finsished off by saying that at last teachers would be accountable.
    nothing about pupils.
    anywhere else in the world people jump at the chance for education but here we have to cajole and pander to the hoi polooi while the smart kids just get on with it.
    Michael laws doesn’t fool me.
    i.e paying off their mates.
    hekia parata and her pals.
    this nightmasre will all be over in 2014 and the education system returned to people who can at least read and write.

  10. Vicky32 11

    A 5.9 earthquake in Italy has killed at least 3 people, and that follows others in different regions of Italy.
    It happened at 04.00, 3 hours ago plus change as I write…
    Equally important, a bomb blast at a school in Brindisi, has killed a 16 year old girl and injured 6 other people. What I want to know is, why was such an horrific event  ignored by the NZ media?
    (I would have known nothing about it, if not for Facebook! Friends of mine had memorials for Melissa Bassi.)
    The bombing is thought to have been perpetrated by the Italian mafia. Ironically the school, is named after Francesca Morvillo Falcone, who was also killed by the mafia 20 years ago.

  11. Vicky32 12

    19 minutes in, One News mentions the bombing at the school. Now they’re talking about Syria and China, 30 seconds for each overseas story. Well done! In the previous segment, the USA got 5 minutes to itself. Typische!

  12. Jackal 13

    Louis Crimp – Asshole of the Week

    Intent on cutting their own heads off… Act are now derided throughout the land.

  13. Searching for the perfect power company is like searching for the Holy Grail (the Monty Python version) and my coconut shells are wearing down rapidly…

    • Lanthanide 14.1

      Use Powershop. If you’ve got a smart meter, you get automated readings *every day* that you can check on their website – so you can see how much electricity you used yesterday or last week, remember what you did that day and work out ways to improve your power usage. In Christchurch there is a 5c rebate for power used on weekends between 7am and 5pm or something like that.

      If you’re interested I could refer you as a ‘mate’, and I’d get $25 rebate and you’d get $50.

      • Bill 14.1.1

        Ooh, ooh. I’ll send you a broken glass jar full of genuine bent nails on top of your $50 😉

        • felix

          How about a “buy now” for just the broken jar? I don’t want the nails or the power account but I really really need the jar right this minute.

      • Carol 14.1.2

        I looked online at my power use a while back. It told me what I already knew – the most obvious implication was that I use more electricity on the days when I’m not working than when I am going out to work, and I know what I do that uses electricity.

        • Dave Kennedy

          Lanthanide and Carol, I think we are reasonably aware of what causes our energy use and tracking that is useful up to a point. However if a power company suddenly lifts charges from 10.28 cents / kWh to 14.00 cents, as Just Energy has done, energy saving can only do so much. I will definitely look at Powershop next if Meridian disappoints again.

          I guess none of this would have happened if power supply had remained a state controlled strategic asset.

          • Lanthanide

            I made that comment because you were complaining about only getting meter reads once or twice a year. If you’ve got a smart meter with powershop then it doesn’t matter. Although having said that I believe other providers will also make use of smart meters if they’re available.

      • prism 14.1.3

        That’s helpful Lanthanide. I didn’t know those incentives existed.

  14. Ed 15

    I heard the proposals for central government to dictate to local government what rate rises should be, and have now seen this:

    My impression is that successive governments have pushed expenditure from central to local government, but that this has increased in recent years, particularly regarding responsibility for roading. Labour had a fairly clear view that local decisions should be made by local communities, National has the view that cetnral government rules; local government is their to do their bidding.

    I am surprised there has been little comment about this issue – perhaps National is right in thinking that local government problems don’t affect “National” government, so why not shift / blame problems to local government.

  15. risildo 16

    I went with Just Energy
    They are privately owned
    Our power bills are $30 a month less than Genesis

    • Risildo, that may be so but it just means Genesis is much worse than Just Energy not that Just Energy is the cheapest. We only noticed the increase in our last bill because the notification just informed us that there would be a rise, but not how much. I think a 25% increase is irresponsible and unjustifiable.

  16. prism 17

    Louis Crimp – what a rat-faced unpleasant little man who seems to have made his money from living off the gambling of people who he despises. He looks so shifty – not an adornment to the city.

    Southland Times comment – Far from overbrimming with sympathy for the problems of pokie addiction, he wrote to our public opinion column in April referring witheringly to “the suckers who addict themselves to poker machines”.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/6097009/Brand-name-to-go-on-receipt-of-2m (Louis Crimp multimillionaire
    http://fundypost.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/louis-crimp-man-of-actions.html – Invercargill thoughts

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