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Open mike 20/06/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:17 am, June 20th, 2014 - 171 comments
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openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

171 comments on “Open mike 20/06/2014 ”

  1. i have linked you to this bucket of drivel from john armstrong..

    ..because of how he gets monstered/unpacked in the comments-thread..


    ..any credibility armstrong/the herald has is in tatters..

    ..the last couple of days have revealed them/armstrong to be just..

    .. ‘another Murdoch rag working to the conservative Tory agenda come election time’..

    • Saarbo 1.1

      John Armstrong reminds me of one of our farm dogs, always looking towards their master to ensure they are pleasing them. In fact I am a couple of weeks away from getting a new huntaway pup, I will call her John Armstrong.

      Armstrong has been left the most embarrassed by this saga, as by the end of yesterday most media had conceded that it was completely reasonable to not remember a minor letter that was signed 11 fucken years ago (some media then tried to change tack and suggest that they were attacking DC because of the Stuff Poll (TV3), idiots). But I reckon Armstrong will be even more biased against DC/Labour now, he will be going extra hard to try and justify his major cock up. But as DC inferred in his e-mail yesterday evening, National and their friends wont go down without a fight.

      Right wingers fight dirty…which is why you need left wingers.

      • Grumpy 1.1.1

        Phase 2 about to start – the undeclared donations! With the Banks trial, these must quickly result in charges being laid. Smart move by Key to have Solicitor General take over Banks prosecution.

        • bad12

          Smart move by Slippery the Prime Minister???, Pfft the straw you clutch Grumpy is pretty thin,

          Donations, what donations,if Slippery or anyone else in the National Party had any evidence of these donations, totaling 100’s of thousands according to the Liar in Chief that evidence would have been spewed forth into the public arena via the walking cadaver Armstrong at the Herald or through Blubber boy at ‘wail oil’ on day one of this beat up,

          Have you got a shred of evidence that there were/are donations made by Liu to Labour Grumpy??? or are you one of the Liar in Chiefs quislings…

          • Grumpy

            Looks like National advised Labour 5 weeks ago to lay off the Liu thing. Fair warning, very fair. Surely Labour would have taken that as a hint to do a search?

            • Tracey

              link? dont reveal our dodgy deals and we wont reveal yours? thats not fair grumpy it is anti democratic… if not corrupt

            • bad12

              Don’t change the subject grumpy, Donations, what fucking Donations???, put up the proof or shut it…

              • Jackal

                I also presume that there are no further donations from Donghua Liu to the Labour party. There is no proof because it simply doesn’t exist.

                When the slippery John Key said yesterday:

                “I’ve heard the rumours and we’ll see what actually comes out but I’d be very, very amazed if the amount is $15,000,” he told New Zealand reporters.

                “That’s for the Labour Party to make clear to the New Zealand public.”

                …He gave himself an easy out. They were just “rumours” he will say and dismiss any line of questioning from our inept media with a snide remark or a quick change of subject.

                However, I doubt New Zealand’s biased media will even follow up on further questioning about these rumours (lies) perpetuated by the Prime Minister.

                Unfortunately most of our so-called journalists, particularly in the NZ Herald, appear to be entirely reliant on National party propagandists for their content…they wouldn’t know good investigative journalism if it kicked them in the arse!

                Despite the MSM’s complicity in this smear campaign against David Cunliffe and Labour, it is failing. The shit is sticking to those trying to throw it.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Unfortunately most of our so-called journalists, particularly in the NZ Herald, appear to be entirely reliant on National party propagandists for their content

                  They are National Party propagandists.

            • framu

              warning? – threat more like

        • felix

          Dream on, goons. Two things were confirmed beyond doubt this week:

          1. You lot are still shit-scared of Cunliffe, and
          2. After all the digging you’ve come up with nothing.

          Must be time to hire some more comms staff…

          • Bearded Git

            Agreed Felix. Claire Trevett proudly reports in the NZ Herald today:

            “Mr Key was overheard quipping National had already taken out the only potential leader of the Opposition he was worried about.”

            This shows that this was a smear campaign and that Key is incapable of keeping his mouth shut.The problem is that Cunliffe is still there and will roast Key in the election debates, if Key fronts that is.

            To repeat my post from yesterday:

            The rolling average of the last 5 Roy Morgans is Lab/Gr 41.5% Nats 47.7%

            With IMP now polling 2.5% (3 seats) it’s all on.

            • Colonial Viper

              Key will take Labour out on the Super age rise issue in the TV debates.

              He’ll say that the reason Cunliffe says Super can’t be afforded is that National are confident managers of the economy and Labour are not. That National has a plan for economic growth but Labour knows that their plan won’t make it. Etc.

              • Seti

                Forcing those to save who cannot will also condemn them to another term in opposition.

              • Jackal

                I’m not so sure about that. The majority of older people will understand that something has to be done about super because it’s unaffordable under the current settings. However it’s a risky play, because Labour once again wants voters to look at the fine print.

                The National party will look pretty stupid if they’re drawn into a debate on this issue. Apart from saying they oppose any changes, National’s only response has been and will be to try and ignore the issue. That will only work for people who rely on small sound bites and the young won’t really give a damn about this topic.

                I very much doubt this election will be decided over a single issue.

                • Colonial Viper

                  I’m not so sure about that. The majority of older people will understand that something has to be done about super because it’s unaffordable under the current settings


                  Print an extra $10M per week and put it in the Cullen fund. Solved.

                • Enough is Enough

                  What a fucking pile of shit.

                  It is not unaffordable. It is about choice. And Parker is choosing austerity.

                  One could run the same argument about every other cut that National has made. “Its unaffordable”.

                  I cannot believe a Labour party is out torying the Nats on this issue.

                  It is disgraceful

                • kenny

                  Two policy decisions NOT to advocate for if you want to become the government –
                  1.Raising the super age to 67.

                  2.Making Kiwi-Saver compulsory.

                  You propose these when you are IN government, not before.

                  • lprent

                    If you do it that way around, you merely diminish the status of parliament. If you have policies you’d like to implement then they should be raised in the campaign.

                    To do otherwise diminishes the perceived trustworthiness of politicians to where National has dropped them over the last 5 years – below sex workers. There is a reason that people vote less than after Helen Clarks government spent so much effort making sure that their major policies were known before elections.

                    • kenny

                      I still say that if you want to lose the election under the present economic conditions then go ahead with these policies, but don’t complain when you do. I don’t sense an overwhelming interest by the electorate in changing the status-quo so why make life harder for yourself. I agree these are important and sensitive subjects but question the timing.

                      Want to antagonise your potential voters? That would be the way to do it!

                    • lprent

                      We will probably find out. But as I see the vote for right shrink back into a single party with a very non-transparent policy process and running so much on relationships to the media, the more that I see it not being able to function well in a world that is wired.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Oh you cynic

                    (but true)

                    Core govt revenue is approx $65B per year

                    a 1% increase in core revenue invested back into the Cullen Fund would make Super affordable to 2090 or 2100

                    what the hell is Labour thinking

                    • Jackal

                      With the majority of people surveyed (60%) agreeing that it needs to change, I don’t think Labour’s policy is the vote loser you’re making it out to be CV.

                      You seem to be ignoring the fact that the cost of super has increased by around 40% since National has been in power. This increase is unique so cannot be compared to other govt. expenditure. It’s also an increase that needs more than a 1% of core revenue investment.

                      Taxes would need to increase by 28% by 2070 to keep paying out the pension at current levels. So where are you going to find that kind of increase CV when NZ is in so much debt? Currently sitting at around 38% of GDP, there really is no room to move there.

                      Where do you want to make some cuts then CV? Perhaps in education? New Zealand already spends more on pensions than it does on education, which to me seems like an incorrect balance. National is simply choosing winners and they’re currently choosing older people, mainly because they vote. The young and unemployed will inevitably pay for that economically unsustainable decision.

                      If you cannot borrow more without causing serious long term economic damage, you cannot increase taxes enough to cover the additional costs, you cannot cut expenditure and hope to keep other policies viable and the cost of super is projected to far outstrip any additional taxes from GDP growth NZ could ever hope for, what exactly was your plan again CV? Just materialize up a few billion dollars each year out of thin air like a fucking magician?

                      Of course National will change the eligibility age of super because they will have to. It’s just that John Key is currently being dishonest about it. No real surprise there. The Nats will say and do just about anything to retain power.

                      A gradual rise in the age of eligibility is the only fiscally responsible option and good on Labour for being honest about it.

                    • Colonial Viper


                      The 60% of people that you say approve of an increase in super are right wingers and centrists.

                      If Labour refuses to fight for a left wing position, then they will go down in the polls. Oh look at that, they already have. Can’t keep its head above 30%-31%. And you want Labour to continue on this kamikaze course, right-o.

                      You seem to be ignoring the fact that the cost of super has increased by around 40% since National has been in power. This increase is unique so cannot be compared to other govt. expenditure. It’s also an increase that needs more than a 1% of core revenue investment.

                      ? Why does it need more than an extra $650M p.a. placed into the very fast growing Cullen fund? The Cullen fund has been growing in excess of 20% per year. Super demand is growing only at 5% per year.

                      Taxes would need to increase by 28% by 2070 to keep paying out the pension at current levels. So where are you going to find that kind of increase CV when NZ is in so much debt? Currently sitting at around 38% of GDP, there really is no room to move there.

                      No, invest in the Cullen fund NOW, and let the magic of compounding interest do all that hard lifting.

                      Anyway what is wrong with putting new taxes on land, on capital wealth and on financial transactions? Only the wealthiest in this country would have a problem with that. Why are you protecting them?

                      Where do you want to make some cuts then CV? Perhaps in education? New Zealand already spends more on pensions than it does on education, which to me seems like an incorrect balance. National is simply choosing winners and they’re currently choosing older people, mainly because they vote. The young and unemployed will inevitably pay for that economically unsustainable decision.

                      Of course its an incorrect balance. NZ needs to be spending much MORE on education not on CUTTING back super.

                      The young and unemployed will inevitably pay for that economically unsustainable decision

                      Oh fuck off.

                      Now you’re simply mixing up real economics, with balancing book keeping spreadsheets and accounting entries which have NOTHING to do with “real economics”.

                      NZ has $130B in household deposits and a further $200B in managed funds. There is more in corporate and company accounts.

                      NZ also has sovereign control of the currency and it can print whatever monies required to fund the activities of the government.

                      Putting up the retirement age is not an economic or financial decision, it is a political one, a right wing one, and the wrong one.

                    • Jackal

                      Anyway what is wrong with putting new taxes on land, on capital wealth and on financial transactions? Only the wealthiest in this country would have a problem with that. Why are you protecting them?

                      Please don’t use your straw-man arguments on me CV. There’s nothing wrong with a capital gains tax. In fact you’ll find that many wealthy right wingers agree with this policy. However it isn’t going to cover the super increases. Neither is a percentage return from investing another $650 million per annum into the Cullen Fund. You don’t get a 100% return on investments each year dumbarse!

                      You claim that the govt. can simply print money to invest in the Cullen fund, cannot equate basic % and then want to talk about “real economics”. I think your argument is a bit of a joke CV, without any punch line.

                    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                      Whilst I dislike Labour taking on this superannuation raising policy – and view it as something people might vote against…

                      There is one thing I don’t see a lot of people who are afraid of what a meal National could make of this policy mentioning:

                      How do National make a meal about Labour’s superannuation policy while not looking like they are ignoring everything most economic/monetary commentators are saying re ‘retirement age having to go up’? How do they make mincemeat of this policy without looking like they are not thinking ahead?

                      I don’t actually think they can speak out too loudly on this issue without looking like they are simply being populist without regard for the future. i.e. irresponsible.

                      If there are clauses in this policy (that others on this site have relayed from time to time but I haven’t read the policy – if it exists yet) that allow people who have manual jobs to retire ‘early’ with no financial penalty to the rate they are paid on superannuation then it doesn’t end up sounding like the dog of a policy it does at the outset.

                      If there are such clauses Labour need to ensure everyone is made well aware of them and I suggest that they start moving on raising that awareness NOW.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Hey Jackal, I’ve only just started campaigning against this policy.

                      Instead of taxing the wealthiest, Labour wants to raise the Super age on everybody.

                      Instead of looking at real funding options, Labour wants to raise the Super age on everybody.

                      Instead of trusting their own economic plans for growth, Labour wants to raise the Super age on everybody.

              • Chooky

                +100 CV…the Super age issue is crucial to Labours Vote…Labour can not afford to raise the age because it hurts their own core voters..it is suicide for Labour to raise the age

                ….preferably Labour should lower the age below NACTS!

                …if Labour cant sort this Super age issue out , people should be encouraged to vote for other Left Parties ….rather than not vote …or worse vote for NACT!

                • Colonial Viper

                  If there is a persistent unemployment problem in society – which is going to worsen as the energy depletion curve gets steeper – then yes…make super available from 60 years of age if you agree to exit paid employment.

                • Jilly Bee

                  I’m not totally opposed to Nat Super being raised to 67 – and I believe it’s not going to happen for a few years yet. I retired last year (turned 70 this year) and didn’t really want to, but the new boss was a complete pillock so I packed my bags. I understand that there will be an option for people who are unable to work past 60/65 to be eligible for early Nat Super. I did apply for my Nat Super on turning 65 and had it taxed as secondary income. I also put a good proportion of my NS into my KiwiSaver account and it’s still earning good interest for me despite not contributing since my final salary package. I realise that I’m probably in a minority here (a core Labour voter and member), but – just saying.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    So you collected your Super on time, but those in their 20s, 30’s and 40’s can simply work longer for The Man? If they can find decent work at all? Next stop will be Super @ 70 years of age.

            • Jester

              He was talking about Jones.

            • weka

              “To repeat my post from yesterday:

              The rolling average of the last 5 Roy Morgans is Lab/Gr 41.5% Nats 47.7%

              With IMP now polling 2.5% (3 seats) it’s all on.”

              Add to that:

              the last Stuff poll said 43.8% want a change in govt, 8.2% undecided.

              and, polled on who they would vote for, 23% said they were undecided.

              The MSM will play this like last time, that National are a shoo-in, but in fact it’s going to be a close election and the left still have a opportunity to win.

              • Bearded Git

                Nice stats Weka. Hadn’t seen that 43.8%.

                Lab 31 Greens 11 IMP 7=49=Cunliffe is still my prediction.

                • Chooky

                  +100…i have money on it and I want to collect

                • Lanthanide

                  IMP will be very lucky to get to 4%.

                • weka

                  Bearded, do you think it will then come down to NZF?

                  Here’s the stuff link, click on ‘sentiment’


                  • Bearded Git

                    Not really Weka because there are usually more than 2% of votes wasted, hence 49% wins.

                    I don’t think Key wants to deal with Colon. If the Conservatives don’t get a seat they alone will probably waste 2-3%.

                    (If he does do a deal with Colon its a free hit for the Left.)

                    • weka

                      It would be great to see the IMP get seven seats in a left win, although the first term would be a pretty steep learning curve for so many new MPs and for the IP in particular. Hopefully they would have learnt from previous small parties’ mistakes.

                    • bad12

                      The ‘fact’ of Slippery the Prime Minister even intimating a possible ‘deal’ with Colon the Conservative would be strongly suggestive of the ‘mistake’ inherent in all of the media polls,

                      IF, the PM had any confidence in the accuracy of such polls He would be waving the big finger urging on the troops with the ”Govern alone” meme,

                      The fact that He isn’t and, as seen on TV, Murray McCully now having backed down over His ”over my cold dead body”,(an interesting thought), with regards Him standing aside in His electorate in favor of Colon the Conservative would indicate that the PM has little belief in the position of the National Party with regards to those polls,

                      To succeed in ‘rigging’ McCully’s seat my belief is that He will have to Not campaign as an electorate MP at all, if He does so, even with the ”nod” given in Craig’s direction the electorate is likely to still vote for McCully who has a huge following in this deepest of Blue Rinse electorates,

                      There is a slight chance, if Labour have the ability to ‘parachute’ into this electorate someone from the Party List with a high profile of creating a rebellion among National voters and in effect stealing it out from under Colon’s slippery little grasp,

                      Very slight i must admit, but, worth the effort…

                    • Lanthanide

                      bad have you got any source for McCully backing down on his stance on East Coast Bays?

                    • bad12

                      Lanth, twas part of a news interview on the TV news, sorry unsure which channel 3 or Prime last night,

                      Far from the previous ”never ever” tough talk from McCully it was a ”greater minds than i decide these things”, and, ”taking one for the team” spiel from English’s bagman,

                      He didn’t exactly say that Slippery the Prime Minister has ”said” that the deal with Colon the Conservative is on, but, the coded insinuation was there…

                    • Lanthanide

                      Thanks, I hadn’t seen that.

      • Chooky 1.1.2

        @ Saarbo ….not fair on your new huntaway pup!

    • bad12 1.2

      Not quite ”another Murdoch rag” Phillip,

      Sir Tony O’Reilly the Irish tycoon owns 30% of the NZHerald through a series of companies listed below,

      The International Banking Cartel,as they do most things, holds massive debts over these companies and O’Reilly is fighting for control of the whole mess with another Irish tycoon,

      Independent News&Media(Australia)Ltd1,
      News&Media NZ Ltd,
      Baycliffe Limited,

      There also appears to be a connection somewhere in the shareholding to O’Reilly that is held by:

      Perennial Investment Partners Ltd,

      Perennial itself is an interesting creature having been in a past life? part of the IOOF, the independent Order of Odd Fellows, one of those old time ‘Lodges’,(secret signs, handshakes etc), a supposed non-political ‘charity’ set up for the advancement of man,(‘man’ presumably being the cabal in control at any given time),this is an international organization,

      Alan Gray Australia Pty Ltd,

      Said to be a ‘global fund manager’ there appears to be a ‘tenuous’ link? between this company and the previously mentioned Baycliffe Limited,(my, how does the media whore of International Capital weave an intricate web),

      Maple-Brown Abbot Ltd,(Australia)
      The Vangaurd Group Inc 3,(USA),
      MLC Investment Management Ltd(USA),

      From an initial look appear to be ‘investment companies’ and while there are no obvious links with the above mentioned companies or the O’reilly family a deeper dig would likely turn up any number of incestuous relationships,

      Dimension Fund Advisors,(USA),

      Last but not least, known more widely as Dimensional Fund Advisors, the notables that run this little piece of ‘investment banking’, an unkind person would insinuate ‘ponzi-scam’ are Neo-Lib purists from the Chicago School of Economics,(and apparently have a building there named after them via a large donation of used currency),

      The NZHerald, in my considered opinion, need a name change, ”The Whore Voice of International Capital” while slightly long to roll off of the tongue would seem to fit…

      • phillip ure 1.2.1

        my bad..i guess ‘murdoch-rag’..as generic..?

        ..they are all much the same..serving the same masters..

        • bad12

          Indeed Phillip, a little peek into the ”Murdoch empire” will probably reveal the same debt riddled intertwined nest of organs of International Capital as having a peek at the ‘real owners’ of the NZHerald,(aka as the Whore Voice of International Capital),

          From memory Murdoch may,or may not, have His fat fingers stuffed un-gently up the rectum of the Dom-Post and Press etc,(worth a look later when i have an hour or 3 to spare),

          Glove puppets all, the whole spectrum of the NZ Media, mores the pity RadioNZ National appears to have been forcefully added to the fold…

          • David H

            When they put in Espiner the tone of Morning Report went downhill fast. So fast that the onlyReason I go there are anymore is to follow a link from here.

    • vto 1.3

      Mr Ure the Herald is owned by big business corporates, wtf do you expect? Independence and objectivity?

      Don’t you know the name of the game? Money, man, money. It aint nothing more. Corporates have a sole responsibility to make money – they trumpet this from the heavens such is their adamancy about it. As such they are right wing. Their politics is right wing. They support political parties from the right wing such as National.

      The Herald is completely and utterly conflicted and should be required by law to publish these conflicts of interest on their front page every single day.

      The Herald is owned by big business. End of story.

      • phillip ure 1.3.1

        that was part of the reason i started whoar..

        ..’cos of the crap/superficial/comprimised sad-excuse for journalism/media ..(in the main)..that exists in this country..

        ..i felt we deserved better…

      • David H 1.3.2

        The world is going to hell in a hand cart and all these pricks can think about is making even more money that they can’t spend, and trying endlessly to stave off the Man with the Scythe.


  2. Saarbo 2

    Yesterday Selwyn Pellett Tweeted this:

    Media! Please be careful that your not the one being played. We need you to be vigilant to protect the truth.

    Yep. They just got played.

    • DH 2.2

      Seems to me it’s the media doing the playing, or at least senior management in the media. There was a revealing lead statement from the Herald in their recent editorial;

      “David Cunliffe has an unfortunate manner on the moral high ground. He adopts a tone of solemn, heavy-hearted condemnation befitting a preacher in hell. ”

      Think about that for a while. That’s from the Herald’s senior editor(s), they’re displaying a personal antipathy towards Mr Cunliffe which has no place in a newspaper.

  3. Grumpy 3

    Barker just got all legal on us, wants Liu to stop drip feeding information and won’t comment until he sees Liu’s signed statement.
    Sort of answers where this information is coming from eh? I would say that National now knows everything Liu does, especially all those undeclared donations. Thank goodness for the Banks precedent, looks like a few Labour people might be facing charges, just before the election too.
    Explains why Key refused to support Banks.

    • felix 3.1

      In what universe did Key refuse to support Banks? Key has supported him all along and continues to insist that he’s an honest man.

      • Grumpy 3.1.1

        Key dropped support after Banks was charged and completely when found guilty. Seems that Key was happy that a high profile precedent had been established.
        Liu is the source, and as the Herald says this morning, will probably take down a lot more politicians than Dotcom every had the remote chance of doing.
        The irony is though, this was all started by Cunliffe attacking National ministers. Remember the promise that in any governments he led, such behavior would result in instant sacking?

        • felix

          Why do you tell such easily refutable lies? Key STILL insists Banks is honest.

          Are the pro trools having a day off or something?

        • Tracey

          it was key he promised sackings. he has heaps of resignations on his watch. your glee is distasteful… if labour have undeclared donations they need to face stern consequences but if you are right and nats warned labour off the liu line that is also appalling. we need to know about this stuff and if ever a citizenship should be revoked it is for this man.

        • JK

          Grumpy – immediately after Banks’ conviction, ShonKey was on TV saying he’d always found him (Banks) honest in his dealings with him _. I don’t think you could call that “dropping support for Banks”.

          • Tracey

            and he didnt sack banks. he didnt read police report.

            why did key need to see lius immigration file 3_5 weeks ago as part of the police no surprises policy with mr key?

          • Lanthanide

            Yes, it wasn’t until a few days later that John came out with the bizarre line that “they wouldn’t use his vote anyway”, which actually doesn’t make any clear sense.

            But even after saying that, he still backed Banks, merely saying that despite his personal support they have to be realistic about the public perception and that it was therefore appropriate for Banks to resign.

        • freedom

          it is only three little words grumpy
          just try them out for a laugh

          you may be amazed at the respect it garners

          go on, give it a try

          ‘ I was wrong ‘

    • BM 3.2

      You can’t really blame Liu, labour has done a bit of an Owen Glenn on him and now they’re going to pay the price.

      Dumb arses

      • karol 3.2.1

        Time we stopped these wealthy overseas investors from getting easy acess to making NZ their playground and means of siphoning wealth from the people to the elites.

        Liu is a dodgy guy, financially and domestically. He deserves to be made to pay for his crimes and rorts. He has only himself to blame for being exposed, whether the exposing is done by Labour or anyone else.

        • Tracey

          agree 100% . see post above.

          it is staggering to see the glee that some supporters of the right have pounced on this to somehow salve their own sides complete lack of ethics. bizarre all round.

        • bad12

          karol, putting aside the lies and media beat-up of those lies that is the current currency of the political discourse for a moment, it could be logically postulated that the damage done on both sides of the political divide have been self inflicted,

          Both National and Labour have happily run with the immigration policy of the ”10 million dollar man” investor category,

          Not pointing the finger in any particular direction or at any particular person this piece of immigration policy is simply an open invitation for any corrupt a/hole to buy their way into New Zealand,

          In the incidents where the policy has turned out to have given far more than just ‘money’ it is to be noted that Immigration themselves(the Department), have raised concerns about the applicants only to have those concerns over-ridden by politicians form both sides,

          So, to a certain extent, the old adage, ”you reap what you sow” applies well here and Labour should now give strong consideration to canning the category where the monied can buy their way into New Zealand…

          • srylands

            No they shouldn’t. The Government should expand and aggressively promote the “Investor Plus” category so we get many more rich immigrants. The corrupt should be kept out through good character tests which cannot be overriden by Ministers.

            What is your solution? Only allow poor people in? Poor people can have bad character too.

            • vto

              The only thing rich people bring is money, nothing else. They add nothing other than money…. but I suppose given that you believe money is at the apex of humanity your suggestion is entirely unsurprising. You should get out more.

            • bad12

              Yes indeed SSLands, ”poor people” as exhibited by your lack of good character should be given a red card,(in your case i would advise a turning round at the border after a stint in Immigrations ”cage”),

              While we have unemployment in the 100’s of thousands and a grand cluster-fuck surrounding housing in our bigger cities i would restrict immigration to our United Nations quota’s and from there only allow in specific immigrants to fill specific skills gaps,

              Property speculators are a dime a dozen and importing them adds nothing but inflation to our economy…

              • vto

                Exactly mr bad. I find rich people quite boring too. They are like bland wallpaper added to the walls of your house. They are simply too fixated on money as the apex of the universe …. boring.

                • @ vto..i agree..

                  ..i have dipped into such lives in different parts of the world..often walking away with nary a skerrick of envy for their lives/interests/concerns/mores/dynamics…

                  ..and sitting amongst people discussing money/mortgages is eye-watering fucken torture..

                  ..but i also know ‘rich people’ who are amongst the most evolved/intelligent/aware i have met..


            • Draco T Bastard

              And SSLands comes in with his worship of the rich.

              We don’t need the rich, never have done. They don’t pay for anything and only take what isn’t theirs.

              • srylands

                Really? Which taxation stats do you look at? Ones in your parallel world. You really want to bite the hand that feeds (literally) your constituents? This is why you are losing. Badly.

                I really hope that this election result will be a wake up call so you can regroup for 2020. New Zealand deserves better thinking than this in 2014. Thirty years after the Reforms began we are still faced with muddled thinking. So fucking sad for the country.

                • vto

                  ha ha that is truly one of the funniest things you have ever written.

                  What is fucking sad is that your beloved “reforms” have led to the GFC, 29 dead men at Pike River, a widening gap between the rich and poor, environmental destruction, the list goes on and on … oh yes the muddled thinking of individualism and putting a cost on everything….. sheesh. You’re fucked in the head.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    But they don’t try to put a cost on everything. In fact, they try very hard to ignore the costs and put them on society instead. That’s their argument against the carbon tax and the ETS – that it will cost the people more meanwhile they ignore the costs of AGW.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  You really want to bite the hand that feeds (literally) your constituents?

                  It’s not the rich that feeds us. It’s us and always has been. The rich just siphon our wealth to themselves by a set of rules that they’ve designed and implemented to benefit them and only them. There’s a reason why societies were better after WWII and it’s partly because we had high tax rates on the rich but mostly because we didn’t let them own monopolies like telecommunications and power.

                  Thirty years after the Reforms began we are still faced with muddled thinking.

                  Thirty years after the reforms and this country is going backwards faster and faster because of those reforms.

        • Roflcopter

          Didn’t stop Labour taking money from him though, did it?

          • bad12

            ”Taking money from Him”, what money when dick, put up the proof of this ”money” or shut it…

      • Tracey 3.2.2

        liu has made a mockery of many politicians, the immigration system and the criminal system. someone have the balls to propose retrospective legislation to remove his citizenship.

        national, and purportedly, but yet to be proven labour, have been bought and sold by this guy…

        two seperate issues here. both need addressing.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.2.3

        Perhaps that’s the difference between Labour and National: National works on the principle that big donors get preferential treatment (Meetings with ministers, games of golf with the PM, and ministers helping a single company with officials) and Labour just treats them the same as other donors.

        Of course, no one’s proved that Liu actually donated to Labour at all.

  4. “..I May Die of Cancer Soon and I Am Fighting for Medical Pot That Would Let Patients Live and Die with Dignity

    I would have liked to ease my suffering at the end of my life – with legal access to a medication that I know works..”


  5. Colonial Viper 6

    UK Labour to cut back youth unemployment benefit in response to middle class outrage at benefits bill

    What is wrong with the fucking Labour Party world wide?

    850,000 young unemployed in the UK so lets kick them in the shins for good measure because the comfortably well off think that they’re not contributing enough to the economy. WTF well give them jobs then not austerity and means testing


    • Te Reo Putake 6.1

      I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick here, CV. It’s not the ‘comfortably well off’ who are clamouring for this change, its traditional Labour voters. The change itself is not particularly onerous; there are two parts to it, compulsory training and means testing. The former is obviously a good thing for working class kids and the latter will end the situation where loafing middle class kids get their lifestyle subsidised. The actual amount paid doesn’t change, except if the parents are reasonably well off.

      “The youth allowance that will replace JSA [jobseeker’s allowance] will be paid at £57 a week, which is the same as young person’s JSA but it will be means tested on parental income. It is tapered off between £20,000 and £42,000.”

      The average salary in the UK is $26K, so the graduated means testing means ‘comfortably well off’ families will be encouraging their teenagers to stay in education.

      • Colonial Viper 6.1.1

        I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick here, CV. It’s not the ‘comfortably well off’ who are clamouring for this change, its traditional Labour voters.

        Then business as usual Third Way and Blairite Labour voters will get what they deserve at the polls. It might also explain why Labour UK’s largest affiliates are deserting it and pulling their money.

        The objective is to cut £65M off benefits a year, and to replace this benefits money for training for non-existant jobs.

        What kind of “traditional Labour voters” push for benefit cuts? Name which of UK Labour’s union affiliates agree with this change, for instance?

        This is another push by Labour Third Way types at a time that there are almost 1M young unemployed in the UK.

        • Te Reo Putake

          Face it, CV, Blairite/Third way politics is over. It was a glib line at the turn of the century, but it has no cache in the UK now. Labour are still polling reasonably well (UKIP’s support hurts both major parties, but the Tories most of all). The reason some unions have walked away from Labour is the structural change to their internal influence in the party, which is the opposite of the direction we’ve just taken.

          This policy is about focussing on training the children of the poor and incentivising middle class families to get their kids either into training or into work. What’s your problem with that?

          • Lefty

            Blaming the unemployed for the situation they find themselves in is a long tradition.

            The next obvious thing to do is to punish them which has become increasingly popular both in the UK and here.

            Of course imaginary jobs and training must be available to justify punishing those whose very existence highlights the deficiencies of capitalism.

            It looks as if UK Labour is now going to blame their families as well. Their punishment will start with being forced to provide financial support for unemployed family members. No doubt there are further punishments for being so careless and irresponsible as to have an unemployed family member which can also be put in place over a period .

            Maybe UK labour should have a competition to see who can come up with the most vindictive way of treating the families of the unemployed.

            Because that is where Te Reo Putake’s logic leads.

            • Te Reo Putake

              Not even. You do understand that even with this policy, benefits in the UK to unemployed 18-21 year olds living at home are still more generous than here in NZ? The commitment to training has been welcomed across the board, not least by Unite union. The means testing is less popular, but again, it targets the well off families first. It’s almost like, um, socialism.

              • Colonial Viper

                Oh FFS, once the means testing is there, all the Tories will do is move the threshold lower and lower. We’ve seen this all before. Labour here introduces medical hoops for beneficiaries to jump through, National gets in and makes what is already there tighter and tighter.

                You do understand that even with this policy, benefits in the UK to unemployed 18-21 year olds living at home are still more generous than here in NZ?

                How is that? And are we now in a race to the bottom of the barrel.

                Why is Labour UK not CREATING JOBS for youth instead of cutting benefits and training kids for positions which are not there.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  And are we now in a race to the bottom of the barrel.

                  Apparently so and all so a few people can be even richer and pay less tax while the majority drop into poverty.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Ok, CV, I get it. You’ve read the headline, but you don’t want to read the article. There are practical reasons for this policy, but if you aren’t interested in doing any research there’s not much point talking about it is there?

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Yeah, pragmatic reasons to cut benefits in a sensible and measured manner, can’t afford to do it any other way, if that’s not fucking Third Way Speak I don’t know what is.

                    BTW I love Labour UK’s framing that these young people don’t have the right skills to be employed i.e. blame the victim

                    Fuck it, the youth in Britain rioted hard only a few years ago, they’ll do it again, and you’ll see UKIP keep surging ahead as the mainstream parties only add to the disillusion of the next generation.

                    The more the mainstream parties fail to represent the concerns of an upcoming generation the more irrelevant they will become.

                    You reap what you sow.

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      As I said, it’s about the headlines with you. If you hate the idea of people doing anything for youth, why don’t you come out and say it? The idea of training is to avoid situations like the riots and get a forgotten and neglected segment of British society re-engaged. It’s a really straightforward proposal, which people in the UK appear to like and might actually lead to something productive. The alternative is to do nothing and let young people rot.

                    • Colonial Viper


        • aerobubble

          Its the great depression all over…

          …first government tried hard to push people into jobs…

          …then the new deal emerged…

          …in between a lot of conservative values from the inertial constituencies have to be sacrificed to the Gods of War.

          …Least we forget.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2

        The former is obviously a good thing for working class kids…

        That depends upon the training. If it’s anything like the compulsory training I’ve had from WINZ then it’s essentially useless. If it’s sending them off to tertiary institutions to get a degree or three then it would probably be good but, as the UK has already cut support for students, I doubt if it would be that. That pretty much means that it’s going to be the expensive private institutions that teach people how to make better CVs but don’t actually teach people any skills. Great for the private sector to make more profit from the government for doing nothing.

    • milliband is another one of those ‘we’re not quite as bad as the tories’ labour-leaders..

      ..our most recent examples of this have been shearer/goff/clark..

      ..the jury is still out on cunnliffe…

  6. karol 7

    Wikilieaks releas of daft of secret negotiations to protect and maintain global financial services…. at the expense of the majority of us.

    Leaked Trade in Services Agreement (TISA) Financial Services Annex, which

    covers 50 countries and 68.2%1 of world trade in services. The US and the EU are the main proponents of the agreement, and the authors of most joint changes, which also covers cross-border data flow. In a significant anti-transparency manoeuvre by the parties, the draft has been classified to keep it secret not just during the negotiations but for five years after the TISA enters into force.

    Despite the failures in financial regulation evident during the 2007-2008 Global Financial Crisis and calls for improvement of relevant regulatory structures2, proponents of TISA aim to further deregulate global financial services markets. The draft Financial Services Annex sets rules which would assist the expansion of financial multi-nationals – mainly headquartered in New York, London, Paris and Frankfurt – into other nations by preventing regulatory barriers. The leaked draft also shows that the US is particularly keen on boosting cross-border data flow, which would allow uninhibited exchange of personal and financial data.

    • Tracey 7.1

      5 years after in force???

      • Colonial Viper 7.1.1

        Secret courts, secret laws, secret rules, secret interpretations, secret deals. Welcome to the failing western global empire.

    • miravox 7.2

      But, but Karol, there are more important things – there was this letter, enquiring about an immigration timeframe, it was…

  7. karol 8

    And now the Nats are out to get John Campbell. John Key lap dog, and WO-Mark II, Glucina, has CL in her sights.

    Seven Sharp is better? Nevermind the ratings and demands of the advertisiers, some current affairs shows should serve democracy first. Democracy is something that Nats think is to be bought via marketing and propaganda manipulations and misrepresentations.

    • Tracey 8.1

      supercity… ecan… gcsb… this govt is the antithesis of open democracy. given they are guided by business principles, which is somewhat of an oxymoron, we shouldnt be surprised we are being run by a chairman of the board.

      they dont believe in govt out of business they practice govt for business.

      when dunne said if there is a willing buyer and a willing seller he summed up the only “principle” underlying nz govts since the 80’s.

    • Colonial Viper 8.2

      Glucina is a grovelling courtier of the power elite. What a shameless sell-out of a jono-list.

    • Bearded Git 8.3

      Agreed Karol. I love the way, by inference, she equates “upbeat and confident” with being right wing.

      Spin spin spin and spin again.

  8. Retired 9

    Phil tywford should ask Smith re foreign investors like Liu re number of Auckland properties he has speculated on

    • Tracey 9.1

      well theres the one he got in on and he hasnt developed it as promised.

    • freedom 9.2

      an aside: the Liu houses shown on Campbell Live last night raised a few questions, not the least of which is the working conditions on view which, based on what was shown, fail many of the most basic of building site safety regulations currently in play.

    • fender 9.3

      Woodhouse may know, he makes house calls to Liu when Liu says jump…

  9. DH 10

    A timely warning over the perils of TPP. Argentina sued by US speculators in US court and ordered to pay


    A private US speculator is prepared to ruin a country and that was always their intention from the start.

    NZ is already exposed to this kind of risk and the TPPA will further introduce us to US patent trolls, serial corporate litigants and the rest of the worst of the US ‘justice’ system. What the hell are our politicians thinking?

    • vto 10.1

      Yep, scary. There is no other way to describe it.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.2

      What the hell are our politicians thinking?

      I suppose they’re wondering how much that they can personally benefit by selling out NZ.

  10. weka 11

    Meanwhile, the IP gets on with things,

    The Internet Party presents the “Party Party National Tour”, featuring some of NZ’s hottest acts playing Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin this July via a tour of musical and democratically epic proportions!

    The Internet Party’s Party Party tour will allow the Internet Generation to come out and party with a seriously awesome lineup of Kiwi musical talent, while also reminding partygoers that we’re about to enter the election campaign period.

    The Internet Party believes that the Internet Generation deserves a strong voice this election, and wants to remind all younger voters of the importance of enrolling and being able to exercise their individual right to vote.

    The Party Party will take that message around the country. The Internet Party thinks the best way to get the message across – the importance of exercising your democratic right – is to celebrate with an entertaining night of no-holds-barred musical action!

    Internet Party founder and visionary Kim Dotcom enjoys throwing a party, and will make special guest appearances at every event.

    “I’m mega-excited to be joining this awesome lineup! Let’s Party!” – Kim Dotcom

    “The rules are made by the people who turn up.” – Laila Harré


    Plus their new candidate line up,


    Am particularly excited to see Miriam Pierard high on the list, she was very good in the selection process event. I’ve been hearing quite a bit of criticism about the IP, how they’re a bunch of oldies, that kind of thing, but I know that if I was younger I would be totally on board with what they are doing. Hell, I’m nearly fifty and I find it exciting. The Party Party is exactly the kind of thing that the people I know who are in the target generation would be into. They’re people who want the right things to be happening politically in NZ, but aren’t going to engage in traditional ways. The IP seems to be getting this. I really hope they can pull this whole thing off.

    • Rosie 11.1

      The artists playing for the party party are well respected, high calibre musicians. Our local independent radio station has already been talking up this gig without being prompted to do so.

      This is THE way to reach young un’s. I would have been beside myself with happiness had I been introduced to politics via music and I hope that a whole new voting audience will begin to believe in their own power and potential through their vote and through engaging in democracy. It’s this generation that will hold the corrupt old anti democratic process farts of the right to account now and in the future.

      I fully agree with what you are saying here:

      “The Party Party is exactly the kind of thing that the people I know who are in the target generation would be into. They’re people who want the right things to be happening politically in NZ, but aren’t going to engage in traditional ways. The IP seems to be getting this. I really hope they can pull this whole thing off.”

      I’m enthused by IMP and really thrilled to see Laila back in the saddle. She is an excellent strong leader and doesn’t take crap from anyone. A perfect compliment to Hone.

    • veutoviper 11.2

      I also find what the IP is doing – and how – quite refreshing despite being a lot older than you! Mid 60s. Not up to the Party Party stuff, but I have been watching their development, candidate selection processes and policy drafting with interest. I like their line up of candidates which covers a wide range of ethnicity, interests, skills and experience despite the young (to me!) age of most candidates

      King Kapisi is not a candidate per se but will be acting as a Youth and Pasifica Ambassador for the IP which is what I had hoped that they would use him for.


      Interesting that Laila Harre has not been declared as a candidate for a specific electorate as yet. They seem to be keeping this quiet (secret squirrel) for the present – possibly to see what happens with Craig etc. But my betting is that it will be one of the more contraversial Auckland electorates. (Not sure which electorate she currently lives in.)

  11. tinfoilhat 12

    Why do I get the feeling that the US is making things up ?

    “ISIL seizes Saddam’s chemical weapons plant”


    • ianmac 12.1

      The USA would know all about those chemical weapons. They supplied Saddam with the material and the know-how so that they could assist Iraq to beat Iran in the 10 year war in the 80s. Which they failed to do. The chemicals were used against Iran and later against the Kurds in the north.

    • and dozens of isis fighters were trained by americans in a secret camp in jordan..in 2012..a camp set up to train fighters to send in against assad in syria…

      ..and americas’ best-friend in the area..saudi arabia..is funding isis..

      ..(it’s a funny old world..isn’t it..?..)

      ..and the latest snowden-drop makes a liar of john key..and his claims he has not let american spooks spy all over us..

      ..(i’m sure our media will be all over key about this ‘big-lie’ he has peddled to us..eh..?..

      ..should i hold my breath..?.

      ..or are they still lost in the liu..?..)

      • Colonial Viper 12.2.1

        ..and americas’ best-friend in the area..saudi arabia..is funding isis..

        Using all the petrodollars supplied to it by the USA buying millions of barrels of oil every day.

    • bad12 12.3

      Its all so much of a LOLZ right, as if our memories only stretch back to the past 24 hours, mind you, having said that, expect certain knees to start jerking with considerable agitation over the very thought of ”weapons of mass destruction”…

  12. the other day i described stephen franks as new zealands’ glenn beck..for his jaw-dropping claims on a tv political show last wknd..that what is happening now in iraq..

    ..has nothing to do with the bush/blair-led invasion of iraq..

    quote:..re bush:..’what’s it got to do with him..?’

    ..well..i did beck a disservice..

    ..’cos along with the cambridge academics who advised blair pre-invasion..that exactly this would happen..should the invasion go ahead..

    ..glenn beck has come ot today and said that those who opposed that invasion..were right/correct..

    ..so clearly franks is more irrational-right than glenn beck..


  13. Clean_power 14

    Wellington’s Dom Post prints some harsh words on David Cunliffe
    David Cunliffe itched to be Labour Party leader for years. After losing power in 2008, the party lumbered along under two failing leaders. He barely hid his ambitions to replace them.

    Now, 10 months into his tenure, he should take a moment to enjoy the role. Barring a miraculous campaign performance, he’ll be finished soon.

  14. Rosie 15

    By the way folks, The Brass Razoo solidarity band will be busking in Cuba Mall, Wgtn (towards Manner’s St end) as a little fundraiser for People’s Power Ohariu, Sunday, 22nd June 1 – 2pm, weather permitting. I’ll confirm on Sunday’s Open Mike. Come down for a chat and if you have a spare coin we would gladly relieve you of its burden 🙂

    And this little gem from Tracey:

    “when dunne said if there is a willing buyer and a willing seller he summed up the only “principle” underlying nz govts since the 80′s.”

    reminded me of a “Hey Peter!” billboard we have planned for distribution around the electorate as we move further into campaign time – “Hey Peter! We don’t want a “willing seller” for our Ohariu MP!”

    Thanks to Lynn for the post about authorisation too, which comes into effect today. We need to add this to all new billboards.

  15. Richard 16

    Just came across this piece of gutter Stuff “journalism” complete with Favourite Cunliffe Gaffe poll.
    So I guess we can look forward to a Favourite John Key Lies poll tomorrow?

    • Rosie 16.1

      Wow. That was stunning, and bordering on sickening. It seems like he is going for a hard out tr**l on a Friday afternoon for laughs.

      If you click on the authors name, Michael Daly, it goes to his email address. He got a response from me! I suggested as you did, a list of Key’s lies as well as a list of Key’s “shames” and provided him with some examples, to demonstrate his “sense of journalistic balance”. I also asked whether he was Cameron Slater in disguise.

      I suggest anyone with a spare few minutes does so as well. Such utter BS can not go unchallenged

      Probably deserves a formal complaint.

  16. Bearded Git 17

    The ODT has an incredibly biased Political Editor a la Armstrong. Try this for size; you might need a bucket handy.


    I have just written a letter of complaint as follows:

    The Editor,

    Dunedin has been poorly served by this government; Invermay, Hillside, lack of regional initiatives and so on. Because of this it is with some consternation that I read Dene Mackenzie’s offerings as Political Editor for the ODT. Today’s highly speculative article, “Labour Good Swap for Dunedin MP’s”, is a good example. Mr. Mackenzie quotes an Ipsos poll showing Labour at 23% as gospel. Almost a quarter of the people in this poll said they were undecided. Pundit.com’s respected Poll of Polls currently shows Labour at 29.4% and, along with the Greens, just 9.4% behind National. While Mr. Mackenzie is entitled to his obvious right-wing views, such rank non-factual bias is unbecoming of the ODT.

    • Rosie 17.1

      Geez Beardy, my head is reeling!

      Is there a big prize this week for the NZ “journalist” who comes up with the most outlandish hateful anti Cunliffe article? There must be because they are spinning as if their lives depend upon it.

      Did you see the stuff one that Richard posted at #16?

      • Bearded Git 17.1.1

        Yep agree Rosie it’s horrific. This is what is called NZ’s “free press” ha ha ha ha ha.

        Actually this is serious. We now have a press that has shown itself to be so biased that it can no longer be described as free. This is North Korean stuff. Strict control of what appears in the press is symptomatic of a non-democratic state.

  17. the herald continues to stake out the far-right ground..

    ..this time an op-ed from some far-right british journalist/trout..

    ..attacking/sneering at the pope and piketty..

    ..for their daring to criticise capitalism/free-markets..

    ..(i think this british trout was channeling ayn rand when he wrote this..)

  18. Colonial Viper 19

    All Apple, Android and Windows phones to have remote “kill switches

    Apparently for when your phone is stolen. But pretty handy if the authorities need to force off all smart phones in an area for 24 hours say.


  19. Clemgeopin 20

    I just received by email the following letter sent by to all the members and supporters of the Labour party. I am pasting it here for your information:

    Thank you for the many messages of support for our leader David Cunliffe and our party. Yesterday, David wrote to you about maintaining our focus on delivering positive change. Over the next three months we’ll be relentlessly focussed on work, homes and families – on the issues that matter most to people across New Zealand. In contrast, our opponents are spending their time on dirty tactics.

    Thank you to everyone who continues to campaign so hard on the ground, avoiding the distractions of politics as usual. This election it will be clear that we are about positive politics – and policies that deliver positive improvements. That’s what the New Zealand public want to hear, and what our policy plan is designed to deliver. To quote Parekura, we will need to “hold the line.”

    This weekend’s Moderating Committee will profile our future Parliamentary Caucus. It’s also a good time to look back and acknowledge the contribution of this term’s departed and departing MPs. We acknowledge Charles Chauvel, the late Parekura Horomia, Lianne Dalziel, Shane Jones, Ross Robertson, Rajen Prasad and Darien Fenton. We expect to release the 2014 list on Sunday evening or Monday morning.

    Warm Regards,

    Moira Coatsworth

    New Zealand Labour Party

  20. fisiani 21

    BBQ at Grant Robertson’s Sunday 2pm. BYO. No media please.

  21. chris73 22

    Reporter: : “David Cunliffe what do you say to those who claim you’re a hypocrite because you live in an expensive house”

    Cunliffe: “I do live in an expensive house but thats because my wife and I worked hard to get to where are and took advantage of the opportunities this country afforded us and we want to make sure every kiwi child has the same opportunity to succeed like we did”

    Reporter: “David Cunliffe have you ever advocated or had any contact with Mr Donghua Liu”

    Cunliffe: “I may have, I’ve been an mp for over ten years and I get contacted by lots of people so I probably have come into contact with him before”

    Yeah because thats so difficult

    • Colonial Viper 22.1

      90 days to the election and the Right wing have nothing to give NZers on policy or the major challenges facing the country. Small minded and reaching is how I would describe their pre-election strategy.

      • chris73 22.1.1

        Whereas Labours strategy would be stumbling, shooting ones self in the foot and relying on the Greens for direction

  22. ianmac 23

    A rewrite of history chris. Would you like a job with Paddy or perhaps Armstrong?

    • chris73 23.1

      But seriously how hard is it, Cunliffes misfortunes are, by and large, of his own making

      • Lanthanide 23.1.1

        I disagree. Yes, he has had mistakes that are his own making, but I think the greater contribution is that of the media, who seem desperate to latch on to any small detail and turn it into a story, no matter how irrelevant in the grand scheme of things it truly is.

        • chris73

          Heres the thing though he knows that everything he says will be scrutinized, he knows hes under the microscope and yet the gaffes hes making are making the MSMs jobs so much easier

          • McFlock

            so if he remembered an electorate office letter signed 11 years ago, you wouldn’t be commenting here to beat up some other perceived imperfection, oozing faux outrage and ill-fitting moral indignation?

            yeah, right /sarc

            • chris73

              Doesn’t mean Cunliffe has to make it so easy though does it

              Cunliffes CV
              Cunliffes doer upper house
              Cunliffes trust
              Cunliffes baby bonus
              Cunliffes twitter

              On the face of it none of it is really that bad but what picture do you think its building up in swing voters and others who only have a passing interest in politics?

              • McFlock

                Yeah, that’s the shit.

                And we contrast that with jobs for mates, shilling for oravida on the taxpayer dime, tranzrail shares, and still saying a proved electoral fraudster is honest.

                And you choose to get all uppity about column A…

                • chris73

                  The problem for the left is that Cunliffes gaffes are recent so they’ll stick in the mind and are probably helping Labours numbers to fall whereas the examples you’ve given don’t appear to have done anything to Nationals numbers

                  • McFlock

                    oh bullshit – the herald would have had a field day with the woodhouse/key contradictions about when and how they saw the letter (if they had been labour ministers).

                    And you’d be dropping massive godw1ns about government MP’s letters being withheld while opposition mp letters were released, if it was under labour. You fuckers had enough apoplexy under clark – fisi’s head would positively explode if labour had done a fraction of what the current pricks are doing.

  23. dimebag russell 24

    labour is on the up and up and the more national tries its tricks the more Labour exhibits its integrity and th emore the country sees who it can trust.

    • chris73 24.1

      So why is the polling trend for Labour across all the polls on a downward tend?

      • Colonial Viper 24.1.1

        Labour is suffering in the polls at the moment yes. D.R. is being a tad optimistic. Labour can’t keep its head above 30% to 31% at the moment.

      • lprent 24.1.2

        A large chunk is from National finally releasing money into Christchurch after a significiant delay. I guess that having people living in unhealthy hovels is less important to them that winning an election. That has a flow on effect into the NZ local economy.

        Plus they just released a budget that was (after some interesting accounting fiddles) perceived as being ok by our economically illiterate media.

        However they now have 3 months that they can’t use too many tricks of being the incumbent government, they are well down on their average polling from 2011 this far out, and their coalition parties have imploded.

        I guess that is why they resorting to the silly dirty tricks

        • chris73

          “I guess that is why they resorting to the silly dirty tricks”

          The way I see it is that National and Labour both try dirty tricks on each other (haven’t heard anything from Mallard in a while…) but National are better at it and Labour don’t like it

          I especially liked the way Grant Robertson was trying to shy away from gotcha politics, its fine when Nationals under the pump but suddenly its not on when Labours on the receiving end of it

          • Colonial Viper

            National are reaching and desperate. Dredging up a standard, 11 year old form letter instead of engaging with the issues which are of concern to many NZers.

            And the electorate sees that quite clearly.

            • chris73

              And the electorate sees that quite clearly.

              • Does it though? I’m not seeing any major movement in Nationals numbers so I’m thinking the general public are thinking thats Nationals doing ok so no reason to change
              • Colonial Viper

                I don’t care about the media polls. The tide is going out on National and it will be very obvious on E-Day.

                National have overplayed a weak, dirty hand.

  24. ianmac 25

    Some guy was talking on the radio 9 to Noon about how the media in Britain jump on Milliband. Every little thing that he does is amplified and twisted in a remarkably similar way as they do to Cunliffe. Milliband’s rating is in minus territory. Funny that.

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