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Open Mike 20/10/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 20th, 2017 - 116 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

116 comments on “Open Mike 20/10/2017 ”

  1. lurgee 2

    Proper song, with some funky dance moves.

    • The decrypter 2.1

      I’m sure Jacinda will ask Andrew to dance with her to this catchy tune. Paula meanwhile couldn’t stomp to the beat.

      • Patricia Bremner 2.1.1

        Yes Yes!! Andrew has achieved so much since he earnestly told us “the Labour Party has so much to renew and change”

        Well Andrew you did that, and you built a base of enthusiastic candidates and new members.

        You selected well from the membership and then with grace passed the torch.

        Andrew, your brave call gave us a charismatic Leader to lift us with hope and truth.

        Your reward is our grateful thanks to a truly good man.

        We salute you and Jacinda and the team you built.

        We are fortunate in the maturity and dignity of the coalition Leaders.

        Jacinda Winston and James. You will do us proud.

  2. greg 3

    this represent the fall of the speculator class
    watch as they head for the exit door all at once in blind panic as they realize there debt positions are hopeless

    • TAT Westie 3.1

      Real estate agency boss fears ‘Fortress NZ’ under new Government http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11934643

      Weren’t these the people who told us foreign buyers were less than 5% of house buyers?


      • Tracey 3.1.1


        And it just aligns us with how our allies treat foreign ownership here.

      • smokes kreen 3.1.2

        These comments from this Real estate agency boss reek of self interest and greed with no thought about what is good for the country.

        • Descendant Of Sssmith

          Interestingly there’s about as many people now employed in real estate at the moment as there was when the market last crashed.

          One suspects, as well as from other signs, that it is pretty close to crashing again regardless of which government got in.

          The wealthy meanwhile will talk it up so they can offload their properties, their shares and so on the mum and dad investors.

          They did this in 87 and they did this prior to the last crash. Sell em when it’s coming and buy em back post crash.

          • Descendant Of Sssmith

            Bear in mind too that this behaviour equally applies to the NZ dollar.

            I’ve already come across several people gloating about how they bought significant amounts of US currency in the last few weeks and have just made an enormous tax free profit.

            Capitalism attacks what it doesn’t like via all means possible.

  3. Tony Veitch (not etc) 4

    Good on you, Winnie – you’ve (almost) restored my belief that politicians should work in the best interests of ALL the country!

    • This is indeed , Winstons , NZ Firsts ,… and this country’s finest hour.

      His namesake is and was prophetic,… and with co workers the Greens and a conciliatory Adern and Labour party ,… expect a real resurgence of NZ popular culture and prosperity.

      This is the real New Zealand calling ,- with all its rambunctious , good hearted , slap happy and ‘ no worry’s mate ‘ way of dealing with life.

      This is what we are all about , – prosperity , hard work , and a sense of equality among our community. The exact opposite of the Roger Douglas / Ruth Richardson era.

      We are the New Zealanders.

      We are a great nation.

      And we are self determined.

      And we reject globalism , neo liberalism and being pawns to global banking elites and their advocates.

      Bryan Ferry – This Is Tomorrow [Official] – YouTube

      • Tony Veitch (not etc) 4.1.1

        Ah, Wild Katipo, your soaring flights of fancy are quite, quite inspiring!

        If nothing else, if a sense of pride in our country and a ‘good as the next man’ feeling is returned to this country, I will be well contented.

        • WILD KATIPO

          Aye … an idealist I know,… but these are the essence of the NZ experience that generations understood. It was terminated in 1984. There is no reason not to reclaim back what was once ours by birthright.

          It is simply a reversal of many of the tenuous ‘legislation’s’ passed under the auspices of the NZ Initiative ( former Business Roundtable ) using willing politicians of the time .

          You will find ,… that it is not all that hard to reverse.

          All it takes is some blunt honesty and the guts to say ‘ no more’ .

          Its that simple.

  4. Eco maori 5

    Many thanks to Winston Peters and NZFirst for choosing a bright clean and fair future for everything in our Country.

    • Patricia Bremner 5.1

      It feels good doesn’t it? Just to know most people want truth fairness and hope.
      Keep posting Eco Maori, you often express new ways of looking at familiar things. That is valuable.

  5. garibaldi 6

    Finally there is hope for our once fair Country.
    I am really looking forward to the resurrection of public broadcasting. The media have so much to answer for.

    • halfcrown 6.1

      Agree with that.

      TVNZ needs a big sort out either get rid of the likes of Hoskins or so we keep the so called “freedom of speech” return Channel 7 that can give an alternative counter-argument against the crap that is regurgitated all the time.

      • ianmac 6.1.1

        Made a point of hunting out Hoskings this morning and what a hoot! Over the top. Doom and Gloom from a chap who used to be scathing of those who talk Doom and Glooom. Hypocrite.

      • gsays 6.1.2

        Along with sorting out tvnz,
        winz and their reptilian ways,
        housing nz and their p hysteria,
        the police- either sledge hammer to open a walnut a la Nicky Hager or ‘nothing to see here’ a la Todd debarclay.

  6. cleangreen 7

    Our letter to all parties in the new Labour lead government sent this morning.

    Citizens Environmental Advocacy Centre. (CEAC) Est’ 2001.
    PO Box 474. Napier. Email; clean.air@xtra.co.nz
    Protecting our environment & health.
    In association with other Community Groups, NHTCF and all Government Agencies since 2001.
    20th October 2017.
    Public COMMUNITY letter
    TO all Executive MP’s/Ministers of the new labour Lead Government.
    Firstly we congratulate all your wise choices that has given us a ‘new dawn’ of change to a warm, caring, inclusive, considerate Government for our future.

    Our message blog (below) has been sent to you for real change for today to consider.

    Please seriously consider those points for our regional communities environmental & social wellbeing for our future please.

    A very warm regards to you all,


    1000% Maama,

    My blog today 20th October 2017.

    We must have this new Labour lead Gov’t to swiftly purge all former National cling-on’s from all government positions and agencies and SOE’s such as Kiwi rail as these National cling-ons were placed inside kiwi rail and it’s own board to kill our rail system off and isolate the management from public contact, this we know as we have emails from kiwi rail management saying the public have been excluded from contacting all Kiwi rail management last year. Top Board of Kiwi rail appointees by National were Paula Rebstock must be fired now as she was so toxic to Kiwi rail’s survival.

    NZTA/Kiwi rail/Ministry of Transport all must loose their top National Party placed management and be replaced by labour Lead appointed administrative positions.

    A new Minister of rail must be announced by Labour lead government to protect our own Rail company again and setup to restore our regional freight and passenger rail services again.
    The Ministry of the Environment Management must loose all national party appointees also.

    The Parliamentary commissioner for the Environment must re-instate a labour chosen appointee as national have just chosen a former national MP as the new commissioner for the Environment so that is such a bad move and must be stopped.

    “Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment” (PCE) is one of the most important agencies Labour must return full funding to provide complete public services to and conduct regional studies on all environmental issues of concerns to all communities again as labour had set up this agency when last in Government.

    Also included must be similar changes in all Regional Government Management positions as those National appointed managers were becoming un-cooperative with the communities they are supposed to serve.

    We must re-instate the Ministry of Transport as “principal advisory” to Government again, as it was during the last labour Government.
    National had deliberately reduced Ministry of Transport to a door stop for government policies under National and have deliberately advanced NZTA as ‘king of transport’ which is wrong as NZTA is only simply an ‘RCA’ or a (road controlling agency)

    Next we need to return all Government documents to the Former labour government policy platforms & positions regarding the insertion of the “policies for agencies to have regard for “Environmental and Social policy planning” inside all documents supplied to public, Local, and central governments.

    This will ensure we move to save our society’s environment, health and regional wealth of our NZ Nation again after a painful nine year loss to us all.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • lurgee 7.1

      We must have this new Labour lead Gov’t to swiftly purge all former National cling-on’s from all government positions


      Add to that the demands for Hosking and others to be fired …

      I know the internet is essentially about sad little powerless people venting their madness (that’s why I feel at home on it) but you don’t think you’re striking rather too Stalinist a note here?

  7. Eco maori 8

    If I was Duncan Gardner I would see reality and change my tone or is all that cash national has in his right pocket to heavy for him to see his future.
    Ka Pai.

  8. Nick 9

    Loved seeing hosking spit and choke last night on the telly …. Looks like he’s still vomiting this morning in the herald … Haha

  9. Pete 10

    Herald on-line:
    Mike Hosking: “Already a mess – we are all in trouble.
    Winston Peters opens with a dissertation on how the world is coming to an end, and it won’t be the new government’s fault. ”

    Yes Mike, the world is going to end. People like you are convinced it is. You tell us we are in trouble. Peters says something at the beginning and you say it means the world is going to end.

    The dire degree of the trouble we are in is shown by the fact that such a limited, self-absorbed drama queen like you has any role in our media to splurge out your nonsensical rantings. The dire degree of the trouble we are in is shown by the fact the numbers in the country are sucked into believing you and the dumbness you spout.

    I heard this morning that Jacinda Ardern was to be on your programme. Her pre-election visits to pre-schools would have prepared her I suppose. If she got to speak to the three year olds.

  10. North 11

    Poor Mikey Hosking on Herald website. “it’s a mess” apparently. That’s rich. Hair. Skinny jeans. Mutton. Grieving, entitled wanker.

  11. weka 12

    John Campbell burns The Australian in it’s response to the new government.

    • NewsFlash 12.1

      Yes, I saw the front page, Losers Take Power, it’s another Murdoch mouth piece distributing FAKE news, sorry opinion.

      • North 12.1.1

        Foreign Editor of The Australian ??? Apparently doesn’t know about MMP. Fucking idiot. Embarrassed for him.

  12. Feeling blessed with the new government. Thank you to all.

    Also feeling blessed with our underfunded health service still doing it under adverse circumstances. I had a heart attack yesterday, helicopter flight, stent put in..

    Make sure you say I love you to those you love – life is a journey no doubt about that. Kia kaha.

    • mauī 13.1

      All the best in your recovery marty 🙂

    • Ad 13.2

      Hang in there Marty you are a good sort and sufficiently annoying to keep on board here.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 13.3

      Feel better Marty.

    • Tracey 13.4

      Kia kaha Marty

      Glad your day ended better than it started.

      Lots of work to do but first and foremost get yourself right.


    • DH 13.5

      Sorry to hear that Marty but glad to see you’re ok.

      I thought it was the Kiwiblog crew who would be ending up in hospital, the apoplexy levels there last night were through the roof.

      Take it easy & best wishes.

    • weka 13.6

      Holy shit marty! Thanks for letting us know you are ok and as always focussing on the things that matter. All the best with recovering, be good to yourself too e hoa. Kia tino ora ki a koe.

    • joe90 13.7

      Hoping you have a speedy and comfortable recovery and all the best to yourself and whānau , Marty.

    • ianmac 13.8

      Yes marty. Get well to enjoy lots of days.

    • francesca 13.9

      Wish you a good recovery and speedy return home

    • gsays 13.10

      Wishing you a full recovery and looking forward to your contributions continuing.
      Arohanui to you and yours.

    • Sabine 13.11

      get well soon and get home quickly.

    • DRUM 13.12

      Hope you recover well Marty

      • marty mars 13.12.1

        Thanks everyone above – much appreciated x

        • veutoviper

          And a very best wishes from me also. Hopefully the stent, plus the change in govt, will be the start of a whole, new good period of life. Kia kaha.

        • Carolyn_Nth

          Glad you got speedy and good attention and care. These days, with the right attention, life can be good after a heart attack.

          Best for the future.

        • Tony Veitch (not etc)

          Get well, marty. I always enjoy your contributions to discussions!

    • Patricia Bremner 13.13

      You got too excited marty mars. xx

      My husband had the same thing 10 years ago here while we were visiting Australia.

      Luckily it is reciprocal for NZ visitors, and two stents and a few days later he was fine.

      Keep taking your meds, do all food and drink in moderation, and you will have many more years. Norm plays golf with the vets twice a week.

      Keep happy and well our blogging friend. A warning helps you plan. Kia kaha.

    • McFlock 13.14

      shit dude, that sucks.

      But these days it’s spectacular how well they can deal with these things – I had a mate who literally died in ED, and two days later they had a consistent blood pressure, new meds for him, a stent in, and he was good to go home.

      And, being Otago, they gave him 4 cheese rolls for lunch lol

      Take care marty.

    • Frida 13.15

      All the best Marty. Kia kaha

      • greywarshark 13.15.1

        Was it before or after Winston’s news Marty? You’ll be able to take the political news more calmly now, thank goodness. Relax and enjoy, you have put your time in keeping the discussion alive making points to be considered. When you are back on the beat again you can give us a report on the Nelson? Hospital standards. Mauri ora!

    • Molly 13.16

      Only just reading this marty. Like all the others, wishing you a speedy recovery.

    • lprent 13.17

      Ouch. Just catching up on that news. It is a bit of shock. But if you’re operating afterward enough to write comments on a blog and get annoyed with the colour beige you’re probably OK.

      I effectively died at home in 2011 with a severe myocardial infarction after a pile of goop dropped out of a artery wall and caused a blood clot that stopped a large part of the flow of blood to the heart. Fortunately I live only a few minutes from the ambulance base and I have a deeply suspicious partner who was wondering why I was making funny noises, knew CPR and kept hitting me while juggling the phone. A case of spousal abuse that I can live with.

      The stents work and drugs are effective once you get the right dosages and if you haven’t taken too much heart muscle damage. I was back at work a week later because it was so frigging boring being at home.

      The worst of it for me was giving up smoking and then putting on weight. Still trying to get that off.

  13. Eco maori 14

    The whole world will take not of this date in time for the cataclysmic shift in our political system to a society that does not worship money over people”s
    Welfare or over our future mother earth and our grandchildren future .P.S. I was matching Tv 1 and 3 news on 2 lap tops this morning please be fair
    Kia Kaha

  14. Ad 15

    I’m looking forward to hearing from more real estate agency bosses like Geoff Barnett:

    “Winston will almost drive us back to the Holyoake years, I remember 66c in the dollar, price freezes, wage freezes.”


    Far be it from me to fault the educational background of a house-broker, but Auckland real estate agents are our true comprador bourgeoisie:


    Instead of hanging out Taika Waititi as a traitor, the first useful thing this government could do is make every single real estate agent unemployed. They can go milk cows for a while.

    • Descendant Of Sssmith 15.1

      Nice reference to Holyoake who of course had his own real estate interests at Kinloch.


      “When Kiwi Keith, Barry Gustafson’s biography of Holyoake was published in 2007, Michael Bassett criticised the lack of explanation about ‘the accusations leveled at Holyoake over his influence to get essential services into Kinloch that appears to have turned him and his partners into wealthy men’. [2] Bassett was referring to the fortuitous building of a government road to the edge of the partners’ property. But in truth there is much more to scrutinize than Holyoake’s influence in having the road built. There are the circumstances, for instance, of his acquisition of Māori land there in 1956.”

      Oh the irony!

  15. The Chairman 16

    Next time you’re out on the roads, ponder this: Your risk of dying in a crash is 40% higher now than it was in 2013.

    This astounding fact was put out by a researcher, reported on RNZ on monday

    While road use is up 15% from 2013, deaths are up 60%.

    According to the report, more lives could have been saved for half the cost of one of the National Government’s roads of national significance.

    The entire state highway network could have had median barriers put in place for half the cost of one of the National’s roads of national significance.

    Let’s hope our new Government will pick up on this.

    Take care on the roads this long weekend.

    • Robert Guyton 16.1

      Good comment, Chair.
      Your thoughts on the new Government?

      • The Chairman 16.1.1

        A little disappointed the Greens failed to achieve their preference (a full coalition deal with Labour). And from what I can gather, secured no core benefit increase.

        I’ll have more comment once the dust settles and policy is announced.

    • While road use is up 15% from 2013, deaths are up 60%.

      According to the Ministry of Transport’s information, the road toll in 2013 was 253 and in 2016 it was 328. That’s a 30% increase, not 60%.

      Next time you’re out on the roads, ponder this: Your risk of dying in a crash is 40% higher now than it was in 2013.

      Relative risk increases are great for scare stories in the media, but not much use otherwise. When the level of risk is very low, significant percentage increases still leave the risk very low, eg if your risk of getting a particular cancer in the next five years is 0.0001 and there’s something that increases it to 0.00014, that’s a 40% increase but nobody in the media is going to make headlines out of a risk increasing by a fraction of a tenth of a percent, so you give them the 40% relative increase instead and they run with that, horribly misleading though it is.

      In other words, your risk of being killed in a crash this year is not significantly greater than it was in 2013.

      • Descendant Of Sssmith 16.2.1

        Aye using %ages without providing the underlying numbers is always dishonest. It gives no sense of context especially if the increase is off a low base.

      • The Chairman 16.2.2

        ”According to the Ministry of Transport’s information, the road toll in 2013 was 253 and in 2016 it was 328. That’s a 30% increase, not 60%”

        You only went as far as 2016, this research goes to 2017.

        Total road fatalities in New Zealand in the past 12 months alone was 373.    

        Whether or not it is coming off a low risk base, the chance of having a crash is still 40% higher now than in 2013.

        And regardless if it is a low risk rate overall, there is far too many people being killed and harmed on or roads. Median barriers would go a long way in reducing those numbers.

        • Psycho Milt

          Sure they would. But “Your risk of X is 40% higher” is a completely worthless piece of information. If your risk X was 0.5 and now it’s 0.7, that’s pretty scary. But it was 0.0001 and now it’s 0.00014, so what? Without the context, the percentage is worth nothing.

          • The Chairman

            “So what?”


            Had we kept the fatality rate at the 2013 level, there would be over 100 fewer deaths on our roads, that’s what .

            • McFlock

              no, that’s if we’d kept the fatality number at the same level, not the rate.

            • Psycho Milt

              If fewer people were killed on the roads, that would be great, yes. Funnily enough, I’m not taking issue with that sentiment (might be a bit of a contrarian, but few are that contrarian).

              I’m taking issue with your view that next time I drive I should think about my alleged 40% increased risk of dying. Given that my risk of dying has gone from extremely low in 2013 to, er, still extremely low in 2017, no I’m not going to think about that. Trying to achieve safer driving through misuse of statistics isn’t a good plan.

              • The Chairman

                It was the researcher’s view, not mine.

                I wasn’t trying to achieve safer driving through the misuse of statistics  (not that the statistics were misused). I was highlighting the reported increase in risk and the need for median barriers.

  16. millsy 17

    No more privatisations.
    NIMT electrification intact
    No more rail line closures.
    No more new charter schools or private prisons (though existing contracts will need to be honoured).

  17. Reality 18

    A new day has dawned with a fresh new government. Won’t be easy with the multiple issues to be sorted, but they will give their best and everything seems more optimistic after the stale, tired regime that will now thankfully be the opposition.

    Mike Hosking’s childish, petulant display last night was totally unprofessional. Only watched to see what was happening and he should be ashamed and embarrassed (unlikely, since he is so full of his own self-importance).

  18. ianmac 19

    This is a positive response amongst some pretty negative ones:
    “Federated Farmers said it was ready to engage with the new coalition government and that it was time to “cast aside” the divisions that arose during the election campaign, said president Katie Milne.”

  19. NewsFlash 20

    Great news, the Greens will have two ministers, it was hoped that the Greens would be full coalition partners, but it still is a Historic moment to finally have members inside Government, things can only get better for them, we all look forward to a long and enduring presence.

  20. Whispering Kate 21

    A word of warning for Jacinda. She needs to get her coalition together in a private room and tell them to get all their dirty laundry sorted out (if they have any) because the opposition are known for dirt digging and they will be digging to Africa trying to find any dirt which could destabilise her new administration.

    Also she needs to tell them in no uncertain terms that they will be required to live a scandal free life from now on in for the duration, no leaving emails, texts around on their phones which could be hacked etc . The opposition will do everything in their power to play their dirty tricks as they have skin on the game big time in this area. I will tell her to keep a tight ship like her mentor and friend Helen.

  21. Chris 22

    More shit dribbling out of Tracy Watkins ears, nose and throat:


    It wasn’t a matter of one party being prepared to pay more. It was about whose policies were more in line with each others. If Peters asked for repeal of the Employment Relations Act and a 30% cut to all benefits it wouldn’t have been a price at all for English to pay. But it would’ve been a price way too high for Ardern.

    Tracy Watkins really is completely fucking thick.

  22. halfcrown 23

    Christ, there is a lot of sour grapes out there at the moment, things I have seen written and said to me since Peters said he would go with Labour and it is only 11.00 am Friday morning.

    The sky is falling
    We are heading back to a communist controlled country like it was under Clark
    only allowed to used shower heads and light bulbs they approve off.
    Interest rate will go through the ceiling
    Banks will stop lending
    The dollar will fall
    It is a coalition of losers
    Food prices will go through the roof
    Farmers will walk off their land(haven’t heard that one for a few years) as Labour and the Greens have a hidden agenda introducing a fart tax and tax the water
    Our personal taxes will rise
    Massive unemployment as NO ONE will be able to afford to employ people.
    Crime will skyrocket
    It is the end of NZ as we know it (yeah that is right like the last nine years)
    You name it and that’s what is going to happen so I added a couple myself.
    Birds will now shit on Hoskins car.
    The Labour lead coalition will cancel any fine weather this summer and we will have to put up with bad weather for the next three years

    Ha ha fucking ha I have not laughed so much for ages, like the last nine years.

    • Carolyn_Nth 23.1

      It takes time to recognise and live with loss of power.

      i recall that in the Nats’ first term under John Key, NZ Labour seemed to present the attitude that they were better political managers – Nats threw everything at gaining power, and few hard plans of what to do with it; John key was a novice leader, kept away from many hard interviews – and I got the impression that the majority of the Labour caucus believed they would most likely regain power after one John key term.

    • NewsFlash 23.2

      That list sounds like what happened in 2010 and 2011, when the highest number of Kiwis migrated out of NZ, a lot those may return now.

    • Tracey 23.3

      I remember when a lower dollar was good… especially for exporters… not good for overseas holiday makers and importers.

    • millsy 23.4

      “We are heading back to a communist controlled country like it was under Clark
      only allowed to used shower heads and light bulbs they approve off.”

      Because Clark, Cullen et al ordered the cumplosolry collectivization of agriculture and forcibly siezed farms around the country with armed Party members.

      ‘Interest rate will go through the ceiling’

      Interest rates are set by the RBNZ, and will be adjusted in December. It will be likely that the OCR will be unchanged, or move only a quarter to half of a percentage point. There will be some bluff and bluster though from the Gov. A hard left governor will probably be appointed. but we shall what happens there

      ‘Banks will stop lending’

      Not loading people up with unsustainable debt is probably a good thing

      ‘The dollar will fall’

      Good for exporters, and FDI?

      ‘t is a coalition of losers’

      English could have given Winston what he wanted.,.but didnt.

      ‘Food prices will go through the roof’

      They already are — thanks to the shit weather over the past year or two.

      ‘Farmers will walk off their land(haven’t heard that one for a few years) is Labour and the Greens have a hidden agenda introducing a fart tax and tax the water’

      Jacinda has chopped the water tax from the sounds of it, and Winston will never allow for a fart tax.

      ‘Our personal taxes will rise’

      But you will get better public services.

      ‘Massive unemployment as NO ONE will be able to afford to employ people.’

      There is a lot of unemployment already, with immigrants taking all the farm and hospo jobs

      ‘Crime will skyrocket’

      It will be no worse or better than it has always been. Doesnt help that a bag of P is probably cheaper than a pack of smokes.

  23. Descendant Of Sssmith 24

    One of the things I’ve found interesting in the last twelve months is the discussions I’ve had with skilled qualified Chinese immigrants.

    All have a strong sense of community and of government looking after all it’s citizens.

    They are highly supportive of state health care and welfare – and also understand the value of a strong work ethic.

    I don’t know any wealthy Chinese overseas investors, and as always anecdote is an example not a trend but I’ve dialogued with enough now to know that those people at least share many of the socialist values that the left do.

    I’m not surprised at that – it’s always been interesting see the right sell their souls to the communist enemy (that includes the labour party right-wing neo-libs as well). Course they haven’t really sold their souls – the whole point of capitalism is to make money any way you can.

    There’s something there though in congruity that I hope Labour/NZF/Greens can tap in to.

    I’m not afeared of more socialist policies vs free market laissez-faire rubbish we’ve endured. While the right argue for individual poor choices being the problem it’s much more evident it’s the higher macro economic settings that are the problem. Less and less and less tax, more and more and more productivity, less and less support for those in lower socio economic circumstance, more and more surveillance of citizens, less and less rights for workers, more and more and more state assets sold, less and less and less public service has not delivered improvement for our country as a whole.

    Many of these things need to be wound back.

    I just hope that many of those public servants who whole heartedly embraced, and in some cases instigated the selling off of such assets, who wholeheartedly demonised beneficiaries, who privatised and outsourced, who bean counted everything to the bare minimum (health I’m looking at you) and so on – instead of ensuring the public service did their job vanish (in some cases back to the countries from whence they came) quietly.

    I hope an environment is re-created of true public service as a priority. One in which authoritarians don’t wish to be in.

  24. Carolyn_Nth 25

    Good op ed from Stephanie Rodgers on RNZ website.

    It’s a mixed bag, but I’m inclined towards the positive this morning. We have escaped three more years of uncaring government, and who knows what consequences of further starving our public services and ignoring our crises of health, mental health, poverty and neglect. We have a real opportunity for change: but we cannot assume it’s a done deal.

  25. The Chairman 26

    How often can we expect to see National side with Labour to help them get their more right leaning policy through?

    The TPP is one area that quickly comes to mind.

    While NZ First and the Greens may oppose it, National and Labour will be able to get it through.

    Anything else come to mind?

    • Carolyn_Nth 26.2

      With NZ First inside the government, it will require NZF and Labour to agree on the TPP – so there will be trade offs. Nats may then add to the numbers rather than the GP – but it won’t be the TPP the Nats want. And Peters mentioned being against ISDS in his speech last night – so that’s probably not going to be accepted in new trade agreements.

      • The Chairman 26.2.1

        So I take it you’re saying they (NZ First) will have independence inside Caucus, but not when it comes to voting within the house?

        Will they still be able to speak-out against certain policy?

        • Carolyn_Nth

          Matthew Whitehead, in his post on TS about the GP last night, included this link about cabinet collective responsibilities in governments using the Westminster system:

          members of the cabinet must publicly support all governmental decisions made in Cabinet, even if they do not privately agree with them. This support includes voting for the government in the legislature.

          Here’s an Asian site, reporting this morning on the likely NZF-NZLP policy on TPP:

          Her [Ardern’s] party was critical of the TPP during the campaign, arguing that the deal as it stands would not give the government sufficient power to limit foreign ownership of housing and land. Ardern reiterated Labour’s position on the trade pact during Thursday’s news conference.

          New Zealand First leader Winston Peters, who played the role of kingmaker in forming the new government, declared that his party will support Labour’s stance on the TPP.

          Peters also revealed his desire to work with Labour to seek a review of the investor-state dispute settlement provision, the last sticking point in the original TPP negotiations, which included the U.S. The provision, known as ISDS, is controversial because it lets investors and corporations challenge regulatory sovereignty by suing national governments in international courts.

          • The Chairman

            “New Zealand First leader Winston Peters, who played the role of kingmaker in forming the new government, declared that his party will support Labour’s stance on the TPP.”

            Seeing as Labour’s stance is soft, that’s going to disappoint a few. The two concessions don’t cover the vast concerns, but if secured, will help soften the blow. But still, some will feel let down.

      • McFlock 26.2.2

        wasn’t isds one of the things Labour had an issue with, too? I forget.

        My take is that Lab wants an improved TPP without the yanks, whereas nat wants to sign it as-is with all the concessions to the yanks still in, even though the yanks aren’t in it.

        And even if the grand coalition for tpp was anything more than tc’s wet dream, it would immediately imperil the coalition arrangements with both the greens and nz1, and I don’t see that as being high on the list of Labour’s priorities at the moment.

        As for other right-wing policies, the “even if” criteria still stand. Sure, they might get some stuff though, but the main influences on Labour are economically centrist/left, with a couple of social conservative things from nz1 but overall I reckon benefits, regional development, housing, employment, cheaper tertiary education, and integrated transport (more than roads) are all on the table.

        • The Chairman

          With the eagerness National has expressed for the TPP, I’m sure they’d accept it either way (concessions or not).

          A grand coalition is not my wet dream.

          There should be some good from this (change of Government) as you rightly highlighted. But there are still some potential downsides, such as the use of a flat regional tax to pay for transport improvements.

          • McFlock

            holy shit, a coalition government where adults make compromises isn’t going to be completely perfect according to your personal political manifesto? Better emigrate, then…

            • The Chairman

              No. I’ll be here raising the bar.

              You speak as if I’m the only one opposed to the use of a regional flat tax (akin to GST) being used.

              Surely you don’t support its use?

              • McFlock

                Dude, I’m not immediately familiar with that policy, which party favours it, or what it will be taxed on. It seems to me that the only person who’s raised it here is you, which means it’s probably not earth-shattering in its impact.

                Although regional transport development needs a look at anyway, so anyone who came up with that policy is probably asking the right questions, even if their answers aren’t perfect.

                tl/dr: tell me what you’re talking about, and maybe even suggest why I should give a shit.

      • The Chairman 26.2.3

        As for the TPP, what makes you believe National no longer want it?

  26. RedBaronCV 27

    Well now some of the corporate drugs have been cut off – welfare money & unlimited immigration – lets see if those corporations can step up to the challenge.

    Corporations could stop keeping the bulk of their jobs in Auckland -outsorce to the provinces.
    Stick some call centre’s and other business units in Palmerston North,Napier, New Plymouth, Timaru, Oamaru, Dunedin and other places. Shift jobs that can be done easily by older populations to those areas.

    Take the pressure off housing & transport in Auckland , cut welfare bills , use under utilised provincial resources, spread prosperity, in a wired world everyone doesn’t need to be parked up in a multi story building in Auckland.

  27. McFlock 28

    Stuff ripping shit out of hosking’s despair. Nice to see the fair and impartial mc of the leaders’ debates taking the result with grace, equanimity , and style lol.

    I know a two-year-old who makes the same face when he sees chocolate but isn’t allowed any.

    • Keepcalmcarryon 28.1

      Loved every minute of it!
      Watching nationals sock puppet dying on the inside was almost worth 9 years of morally bankrupt government. Almost.

  28. joe90 29

    Let me guess, some libertarian tech dude who believes his billions are endangered by governments and their regulations.

    In September 2013, the man who bought Brexit – Arron Banks – was in trouble.

    For the past two years, financial regulators in Gibraltar had been scrutinising his insurance under-writer, Southern Rock. They had discovered it was keeping reserves far below what was needed.


    One question remains though. If Banks was in such a tight spot in September 2013, how did he manage to be so generous the following year?


  29. ianmac 30

    And Green will get the cannabis Referendum. Good eh!

  30. Cinny 32

    So many people have been given hope with our new government, so many.

    Every time the news comes on, am smiling ear to ear as I’m reminded of our talented, clued up new government, and it makes me feel so freaking proud to be a NZer.

    And then to make things even better, am reminded of the outstanding policies that are going to happen. Loving listening to the news today.

    Miss Twelve is walking around wishing everyone a Merry Christmas, she says it’s like Christmas come early.

    The kids at school all cheered when I reminded them that with the change of government they will have some incredible opportunities such as going to university, due to the steps that will be taken towards free tertiary education. For kids at the local low decile school, this is MASSIVE

    What a wonderful day for so many many New Zealanders

    THANK YOU Labour, NZ1st and Greens, thank you for giving us hope 🙂

  31. repateet 33

    Will Trevor tell Paula Bennett on the occasions of her interjecting with nonsense from the Opposition benches, “Zip it sweetie?”

    Paula couldn’t in her wildest nightmares have considered that we would have such a sweetie as Prime Minister!

  32. Cinny 34

    Free counselling for under 25’s…… FOR REALS 🙂

    Am beyond ecstatic, this will help save lives.

    How much more good news can a girl digest and it’s not even 6pm.

    Epic goodness all day long 🙂


  33. Peter 35

    Richard Prebble: Jacinda Ardern will regret this coalition of losers

    FPP thinking from Mr. Prebble. None of the parties won or lost the election. Each party received a different amount of votes. The government is made up of the parties able to offer more than 50% of the electoral seats available. The coalition won fair and square.

    • Tracey 35.1

      Oh the irony from Prebble. Remind me why anyone gives a shit what sell to the lowest bidder Prebble thinks?

  34. greywarshark 36

    A discussion on the situation for NZ in coming years as China and USA front of with each other to see who is going to be top dog put NZ as a bone of contention, the meat in the sandwich and other gristley fillings.

    The analyst assumes that between the two we must arm ourselves against China.
    I think we need to debate this.

    Defence strategy analyst Dr Malcolm Davis weighs in on China’s new plan to become the world’s biggest superpower, following president Xi Jinping’s latest speech.

    Australian Strategic Policy Institute

  35. eco Maori/kiwi 37

    Well this is my third vaping pipe I brought one thought it got lifted moko’s . Brought another found the old one was to stressed to use it gave one to my m8 and sent one to my brother . Less stress now I have it worked out now .Its just $50 for a joyetech stainless one and the vanilla tabbco vap juice is ok it only cost $5 a week for this big saving and one just has to remember what it was like when you first started smoking and persist and you will get use to it and no more spending heaps on smokes an your health will improve real quick. P.S if your congested and need to by that stuff on tv just take a panadol it does the same clears the chest and clears the cough Ka pai

    • greywarshark 37.1

      You’re a mine of information ecoMaori. Hope you can have an enjoyable Labour weekend.

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