Open mike 20/11/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 20th, 2011 - 160 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step right up to the mike…

160 comments on “Open mike 20/11/2011 ”

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  1. tsmithfield 1
    20 November 2011 at 6:45 am

    Is this evidence that Labour is broke? It looks like that sash advertising the “20th of November” as election day was recycled from last years bi-election (Faafoi didn’t stand in that so it is definitely a stuff up.)

    Surely someone could have painted a tail on top of the “0” to make it look like a “6”.

    • tc 1.1
      20 November 2011 at 1:05 pm

      Compared to the Nats most parties are TS. It’s called principles and values.

      When you don’t have any you’ll whore for funds off anyone who can get something from you like maybe insurance council( ACC privatisation) fed farmers ( ets, ecan etc), roading and transport interests, mining man the list goes on and on.

      They tweaked that evil EFA to cover this up you know the one they were going to repeal…..along with anti smacking, F&S and a host of other stuff they lied about.

      • Fortran 1.1.1
        20 November 2011 at 1:36 pm

        ACC privatisation will be minimal at best.
        Why – because the Insurance companies have no interest in getting stuffed again, and they have too much in their plate with Christchurch. This will continue to nod but do nothing for some years.

  2. ianmac 2
    20 November 2011 at 6:48 am

    Wow. Just when we have been commenting on the famous popular John Key habit of no show for serious interviews we get this from the Herald on Sunday:
    “Over the course of his premiership, Key has done fewer and fewer big sit-down interviews with experienced political journalists; more and more “fluff” interviews and photo-shoots with women’s magazines and tame talkback radio hosts.”
    “Radio NZ has been counting the number of times he has turned down interview requests on Morning Report.
    And its website reveals that National declined to answer any of the 100-plus written questions it sent parties about their policies.”
    “This week, Key’s chief press secretary Kevin Taylor pulled his boss out of a planned Q&A interview with the Herald on Sunday – an interview that was intended to canvass just such policy issues as trade and the economy.”

    In this the last week of the Election I wonder if Key’s unwillingness to front up will become an issue? It certainly should be and then there is that Leaders Debate on Monday night TV3 7pm.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10767255

    • mickysavage 2.1
      20 November 2011 at 7:02 am

      The whole paper is anti Key. It is really having a go at brand Key, his refusal to do serious interviews and the failure of his promises.

      He may have succeeded in bullying the HOS to not publish the transcript but at some cost.

      • Carol 2.1.1
        20 November 2011 at 7:30 am

        Ha! The front page of the hard copy has a headline +plus pic of “Key’s Girl Walks Away: Araho from McGehan Close girl leaves for new life in Australia”

        • mickysavage 2.1.1.1
          20 November 2011 at 7:37 am

          Dare I say this but this particular edition may be the most anti National edition ever published.  I think I will frame a copy.

          The reference to Aroha Ireland is particularly pointed.  She was part of one of the most blatant photo ops Key has ever been involved in.  Good to see this has backfired too.

          TV3 did a return to McGehan close earlier this year.  Well worth a look. 

          • Carol 2.1.1.1.1
            20 November 2011 at 7:47 am

            Well, there’s an article on a documentary that’s going to air on TV3 this Wednesday, about child poverty in NZ that seems to support Labour’s child policies – it includes a statement from Annette King who says she has had nothing to do with this doco.

            Political Spy Rachel Glucina, starts her column:
            http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10767272

            Like all good tea parties, everyone’s turned mad. John Key lost his sense of humour and called the cops. DPS guards lost their job description. Party strategists lost control of events. John Banks lost his memory. TVNZ lost their nose for news, and TV3 maximised the story. And the public lost their quench for a strong brew of economic policy, choosing a milky cup of scandal from the menu instead.

            And ends claiming some Business Rountable people are prepared to put money up to support Isaac as Act leader, and ends:

            If true, will the recent widow of the late Roundtable director find Act’s voice or continue to genuflect subserviently in front of National, making it, as Lindsay Perigo has dubbed it, the NACT Party?

            Aroha article:
            http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10767404

            • Jim Nald 2.1.1.1.1.1
              20 November 2011 at 8:07 am

              Typical Key.
              What might his last words be to Aroha?
              “Thank you, goodbye. It was nice knowing and using you.”

              • ropata …
                20 November 2011 at 8:33 am

                Herald piece worth quoting
                Girl Key took to Waitangi opts for Aussie

                The poster child of National’s victorious 2008 election campaign says New Zealand has nothing to offer her and she’s moving to Australia for good.

                Aroha Ireland, 16, said there were no opportunities for young people and she would be moving to Melbourne to live permanently next month.

                “I don’t see us catching up, we are going backwards while they are getting way ahead,” she said.

                “There’s not many opportunities here.”

                In 2008, Prime Minister John Key famously took the then 12-year-old from McGehan Close, in the Auckland suburb of Mt Albert, to attend Waitangi commemorations with him.

                Aroha said she felt embarrassed by the attention she had received since her encounter with Key and was wary of any further publicity.

                She had been teased at school after she was taken to Waitangi by Key and was kicked out of Mt Albert Grammar School for misbehaviour.

                Typical Key

              • Colonial Viper …
                20 November 2011 at 8:35 am

                The same words a pimp might say, late one night.

            • stephen 2.1.1.1.1.2
              20 November 2011 at 8:30 am

              The TV3 doco is on Tuesday at 7:30pm, not Wednesday.

          • tc 2.1.1.1.2
            20 November 2011 at 9:17 am

            With the standard dribble from nat apologist Holmes of course, he is to journalism what McDonalds are to healthy living.

            • freedom 2.1.1.1.2.1
              20 November 2011 at 12:27 pm

              The little sycophant compared the teaparty tapes to a private conversation held in the PM’s office. Imagine being paid that much money not to think.

        • Fortran 2.1.1.2
          20 November 2011 at 1:40 pm

          Read the whole article and see why this 16year old is thinking of leaving, with her live with boyfriend for Australia, where her father lives. Why did she get kicked out of School ?

          • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.2.1
            20 November 2011 at 1:55 pm

            Time to scapegoat the teenager. And the other 800,000 NZ born Kiwis gone to Australia

            That’s the population of Christchurch and Wellington put together fyi.

          • freedom 2.1.1.2.2
            20 November 2011 at 2:18 pm

            a person who has the opportunity to visit Australia gets a comparative view of where they are in New Zealand, then based on the options available, decides to leave NZ. Fairly straighforward.

            There also are her own words
            “I don’t see us catching up, we are going backwards while they are getting way ahead,” she said.
            “There’s not many opportunities here.”

            What exactly are you defending Fortran? Apart from your misanthropy.

        • The Pink Postman 2.1.1.3
          20 November 2011 at 2:32 pm

          Unfortunatly this young girls mother and slimy Key had no consideration of the way this young girl would be treated after the Key photo oportunity.
          Did either of them really think she would be looked up,to by her poor working class school mates. What it also shows is Key’s ignorance of what real life is like for underpriviledged working people ,who can be very cruel at times.So much for his claim to come from a poor working class family .Its just another lie this conman makes all the time. In fact his whole life is a charade.

    • Carol 2.2
      20 November 2011 at 7:15 am

      Yes the contradiction between Key claiming that voters are interested in policy not the teatapes while avoiding detailed talk of policies, should also be hammered.

      And someone should do a Dunkin Garner and order Key to talk about a range of policies without his notes. He may be able to reel off a load of (real or imagined) numbers with confidence, but has little understanding about, or interest in, what it takes to run a democratic country for the benefit of all.

      There’s a belief by neoliberal and other right wing champions of capitalism, that the moneymen/women know best how to run a country. But the money people should serve the country’s policies, providing the costings, advising what is do-able etc. A good leader should have a bredth of understanding of policies, and should have a finance person, to do the figures, and who is capable and trustworty.

      There’s a belief by neoliberal and other right wing champions of capitalism, that the moneymen/women know best how to run a country. It’s time to end this myth that the accountants, bankers, finance traders and neoliberal economists know best how to run a country.

      It’s time to show how little Key really understands about, or is interested in, running a democratic country. Show us your policies, John…. not just some waffley general statements, we want the details.

  3. Jenny 3
    20 November 2011 at 7:12 am

    Mana fronts up

    18 November 2011

    Media Advisory:

    Mana Movement Foreign Policy Release – 12noon Sunday

    Mana will launch its foreign policy at the entrance to the Papakura Military Base in Grove Road, Papakura, at 12noon tomorrow (Sunday)

    All media welcome.

    Note: The Military Base is home to New Zealand’s SAS troops currently based in Afghanistan.

    John Minto
    Foreign policy spokesperson

  4. toad 4
    20 November 2011 at 7:23 am

    Farrar’s dodgy statistics in energy SOE privatisation debate:

    To dogwhistle that privatisation will bring lower electricity prices is simply not supported by the evidence.

    Incidentally, I’m somewhat suspicious about the sudden and dramatic drop in Contact’s domestic electricity prices from August 2011, just after National’s SOE privatisation announcement. I’m wondering if this is a loss-leading exercise to gain market share before the SOEs are privatised.

    • tc 4.1
      20 November 2011 at 8:57 am

      Evidence globally is overwhelming, prices go up as profit taking rather than network development and reinvestment occurs…….telecom is an obvious example.

      Then there’s asset stripping for profit which browncoal has already indulged in sort of by sucking the best part of a billion out of meridian after making genesis buy a hydro station off them.

      Where have the MSM been on that one as he’s just taken the money and left the debt with genesis to try and fill the hole in govt books.

    • Satty 4.2
      20 November 2011 at 9:35 am

      Contact lost most customers from the “what’s my number compaign?” compared to other energy retailers earlier in the year. As far as I know, they didn’t reduce the rates/prices across the board, but only for “on time, online” customers, means direct debit and no paper bills (secure cash flow and lowest administrative costs). In the meantime they stopped customer loss.
      So I would think this is to a large extend “competition”.

      • millsy 4.2.1
        20 November 2011 at 9:04 pm

        The surge in customer switching because of the ‘what’s my number’ campaign has IMO put a lot of pressure on retailer call centers, and there have been a lot of customer address mixups.

    • millsy 4.3
      20 November 2011 at 9:16 pm

      Electricity prices are high due to the high level of fragmentation through out the whole industry, with electricikty passing through assets owned by 4 companies, the generator, the grid operator, the lines company, and then the meter owner (yes, in some networks your power meter is owned by a different company than the lines company — in the Powerco network (ex TEPB/NPCCED) the power meters and hot water relays are owned by Vector — and finally with the reatailer selling you the power, even through they dont nessesarly *make* the power. All companies have outsourced their operations to various private contractors, who have contracted them out futher to other contractors, to the point where tasks go through 3 or 4 companies before they are done, so you have all these companies clipping the ticket all the way through.

      The whole sector is a crock. Plain and simple.

      • seeker 4.3.1
        21 November 2011 at 12:58 am

        I believe Labour have said they are going to look at this mess,and Goff said he didn’t think 4 separate companies was a good idea anymore. Have no links to this though. Has anyone else?

  5. happynz 5
    20 November 2011 at 7:46 am

    I’ve noticed that there is an advert for the “Roy Morgan Reactor App” here on this site. Urgh, this means the return of the “worm”, doesn’t it? Honestly, it is just as bad as those dipshit txt polls on TV1. There is less focus on what has been said but more on the movement of a scrolling line across the bottom of the screen.

  6. Deuto 6
    20 November 2011 at 8:00 am

    Stuff has an article on the latest Horizon poll results –
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/campaign-trail/6000203/Surprise-poll-results-no-shock-for-a-defiant-Winston

    While I have some reservations ( as do others) on their methodology, this poll covers a more recent date range and a larger number (almost 3000) of potential voters.

    Fuller results on on the Horizon website – but I am still a learner in this linking thing and haven’t figured out how to paste two links in the same comment as yet, so will follow up with the link in a separate comment.

    • Deuto 6.1
      20 November 2011 at 8:02 am

      Here is the link to the Horizon homepage as there are several articles on the results of the poll

      http://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/Home

      • coolas 6.1.1
        20 November 2011 at 9:32 am

        Wow – the picture is changing fast. If Winstone holds the balance of power what joy it will bring to him to stick it to the Nats who so brutally shafted him in the 2008 election. His revenge will be sweet.

        • weka 6.1.1.1
          20 November 2011 at 11:04 am

          What makes you think Peters won’t go with National? He’s done it before and he’s also said before that he won’t work with the Greens. I’d really like leftwing commenters here who are supportive of NZF to explain their thinking.

          • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.1
            20 November 2011 at 11:20 am

            Peters could go with the NATs. If they let him.

            What would stop him is if he has finally understood what it would take for New Zealand First to become a lasting major force in NZ politics. And burning off your activist and membership base for another tilt at the baubles ain’t gonna work.

            • weka 6.1.1.1.1.1
              20 November 2011 at 11:33 am

              It’s a risk though isn’t it, in an election that might be this close, for left voters to party vote NZF? On the basis that Peters comes to his senses? 😉  But even if he does, is he going to work with the Greens, or support a govt that includes the Greens? If people want a left wing govt I’m failing to see that such risks are worth… can’t see any actual gain.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.2
          20 November 2011 at 1:16 pm

          Jonkey pushing the fear. Can’t have liked that poll.

          Prime Minister John Key has warned an election result that delivers Winston Peters the balance of power will see the country go back to the polls within weeks.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2
        20 November 2011 at 10:27 am

        http://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/180/nz-first-10-

        New Zealand First now has 10.5% of people 18+ who have decided their party vote, or are undecided but indicate a preference and who are registered and are “definitely” going to vote.

        http://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/178/public-dont-release-tea-tape

        The issue was damaging the Prime Minister’s credibility this week.

        41.9% think the issue has made him less credible, 6.2% more credible while 47.4% say it makes no difference to his credibility. 39% think it has made Mr Banks less credible, 3.2% more credible.

        So, an interesting week in the polls.

      • ianmac 6.1.3
        20 November 2011 at 10:35 am

        Thanks Deuto. Linked and joined Horizon just now.

        • Jilly Bee 6.1.3.1
          20 November 2011 at 6:42 pm

          @ ianmac – me too. Have just watched the first 10 minutes or so of 3 News and immediately wanted to throw something at the TV, at the garbage that followed the coverage of the Labour Party Rally. I would have been there but had grandchildren watching duties. I just wish Duncan Garner [TV3] & Guy Espiner [TVNZ] would pursue John Key in the way they have hounded Phil Goff, to produce the figures right now, and no, not to refer to any notes – it’s got to be in your head 100%! FFS – if they want things and figures financial why don’t they hound David Cunliffe and/or David Parker. I made a decision to watch 3 News when it came into being in 1989 when I was seriously pissed of with the then Head Honcho of TVNZ, Julian Mountier stating that it was his number one priority to crush TV3 into the ground, and by goodness the TVNZ clobbering machine nearly did. I have remained loyal to the brand, but their partisan political reporting of late [John Campbell you’re excused, so far] is despicable. All we saw of John Key was his drinking up with his young buddies in Ponsonby, kissing reluctant babies [oh that beery breath!!] and watching the luvvies leering at him. Pass the barf bucket please.

    • higherstandard 6.2
      20 November 2011 at 10:22 am

      Fuck i’m surprised that Winston knows how to rort polls this well …………… perhaps it is Andrew Williams drunk in charge of a computer again ?

  7. uke 7
    20 November 2011 at 8:02 am

    The human cost of UK austerity politics and bailing out the 1%:
     
    UK couple driven to suicide by poverty and neglect
     

    Figures released this week reveal, according to the Independent, that “after falling for years, the suicide rate began increasing as the credit crunch hit Britain.”
     
    It reported, “The number of people committing suicide rose by 329 to 5,706 in 2008—the first increase since 1998.”
     
    Following the meltdown of the global economy in 2008, David Cameron, before becoming prime minister, stated that Britain had now entered “the age of austerity”. In the aftermath of the crash, billions have been slashed in social spending, first by the previous Labour government and from May last year by the incoming Conservative/Liberal Democrat government.
     
    These policies have resulted in millions of people being deprived of decent paying jobs and vital social services.

    • tc 7.1
      20 November 2011 at 8:46 am

      You ain’t seen nothing yet in the UK, wait till after the Olympics in 2012. Tottenham was just a wafer thin snack to whats coming after they start in on the likes of the fire service and other civil services.

      Tory govt and mostly Murdoch style media……that should go well then.

      • uke 7.1.1
        20 November 2011 at 10:50 am

        Just found this article on rising suicide rates in NZ:

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/6000795/Suicide-in-elderly-highest-in-10-years

        “The number of elderly New Zealanders killing themselves has surged 11 per cent to a 10-year high, fuelled by mounting health and economic worries. The spate of deaths has pushed the country’s overall suicide numbers to 558, the highest since 1997. […] But some nurses are concerned not all suicides are being recorded properly, and the number could be much higher.”

        • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.1
          20 November 2011 at 11:16 am

          Don’t worry, I’m sure John Key will have something useful to say about this in relation to teapots.

    • millsy 7.2
      20 November 2011 at 1:47 pm

      The difference between Cameron and Thatcher is that the Iron Lady knew when to stop…..

    • Vicky32 7.3
      20 November 2011 at 7:35 pm

      I just read that article (about the Mullins) and it’s unspeakable!

  8. dianne cadwallader 8
    20 November 2011 at 9:08 am

    I am away overseas reading HOS online .. re GE organisms — this is terrifying in its stealth and intention …. have seen no mention elsewhere so thought to post ….

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10767413

  9. kriswgtn 9
    20 November 2011 at 10:14 am

    Marae investigates

    awesome go Hone hahahah

    Sharples and Pareta are so out of their depth

    Metiria ripping into Pareta was awesome hahahahahahah

  10. Just Julie 10
    20 November 2011 at 10:30 am

    How come DEAR LEADER gets a totally pathetic soft interview with Holmesy on Q and A ; then they make a concerted effort to go for the jugular with Guyon on Goff and Peters?! Biased much??? Was this the only way they could get PM to agree to front??? Hhmmm….

    • kriswgtn 10.1
      20 November 2011 at 11:03 am

      Yeah exactly cos Holmes is a tory and it shows

      Espiner is nothing but keys bitch

      plain and simple

      It was good to see Peters get the better of Espiner on numerous occasions

    • The Pink Postman 10.2
      20 November 2011 at 2:51 pm

      Well I havent seen Holmes yet,will watch later ,However I did watch the pair of blue Siamese twins on TV3.Both Plunket and Garner have the needle stuck on imagined Labour Leadership.They must rank among the worst interviewers for years . we certainly need better over election time.
      All I can say is at least we have Maori TV with their excellent interviewers .
      And why has not Chris Laidlaw been snapped up ,I would presume its because of his Labour and anti -tour connecions.

      • Ianupnorth 10.2.1
        20 November 2011 at 9:54 pm

        I expect a ‘Campbell Larsen’ level of abuse for this, but

        I will party like there is no tomorrow when Paul Holmes eventually crocks it!

        • Campbell Larsen 10.2.1.1
          20 November 2011 at 11:10 pm

          heh heh Paul Homes has been serving up a crock of it forever… I think the work you were looking for is ‘croak’ and yes, I too have a special dance prepared for the occasion : )

  11. locus 11
    20 November 2011 at 11:11 am

    The recent Irish presidential election illustrates how opinion polls are ultimately irrelevant when people are unsure of candidates’ honesty.

    Look how quickly a ‘popular’ front-runner fell at the final fence: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_presidential_election,_2011#Opinion_polls)

    Opinion Polls:
    25 Sep Gallagher 11% Higgins 18%
    6 Oct Gallagher 20% Higgins 23%
    16 Oct Gallagher 39% Higgins 27%
    22 Oct Gallagher 40% Higgins 26%
    23 Oct Gallagher 40% Higgins 25%

    Election Day 27 Oct 2011
    Gallagher 28.5% Higgins 39.6%

    The Labour Party candidate won the day and the election because the electorate decided from the questions raised during the televised debate on 24 October that Gallagher lacked integrity.

  12. Bill 12
    20 November 2011 at 11:16 am

    Is any one else experiencing problems submitting comments?

    [lprent: will have a look at it ]

    • Bill 12.1
      20 November 2011 at 9:39 pm

      Cheers Lynn. (If this comes through, them something is sorted) But there are also a pile of comments from regular peeps sitting in ‘trash’. Some are duplicated as comments, some aren’t. And I don’t have the editorial wherewithall to reassign them or get them out from ‘trash’.

    • Bill 12.2
      20 November 2011 at 9:43 pm

      Just tried submitting a comment from a ‘logged in’ status. And it has either been consigned to spam or trash…as are the comments of others. Maybe this ‘un logged’ comment will come through?

  13. gingercrush 13
    20 November 2011 at 11:32 am

    Hmm I had the good fortune of doing a bit of a road trip this week. Christchurch to Auckland so was interesting to see all the billboards each party has. Act’s were very crap and sparingly suggesting they don’t have much cash. NZ First also didn’t have many with literally no focus on electorate seats at all and I don’t think they capture the party vote properly. Conservatives must have spent an absolute fortune for their billboards were everywhere.

    The Greens also had many billboards and while good looking and all I can’t help but find children being displayed so willingly is highly manipulative. The Mana’s party logo is weird but they did pretty well though I don’t get the billboards with the four people at top of the list. The Maori party have the best billboards I just think they’d be better to go for the electorate vote. But both Labour and National should have had billboards emphasising the electorate and party vote.

    Josie Pagani has the best billboards. Some of the other Labour members look scary and unnatural. I do think they should mention more prominently to party vote Labour. Also I don’t understand why Twyford’s billboards don’t mention Te Atatu at all and why that decision was made. National’s billboards are reasonable but they needed to include a tick when it comes to the electorate vote. Seemed to be very prominent except in South Auckland. Also Labour seemed to have way more billboards in Auckland Central.

    Whilst at Onehunga Mall (the street not dressmart) I had the chance to meet Sam Paseta Lotu-Inga. Lovely man and the way he approached businesses down the mall was very impressive. I have no doubt he’ll be returned easily. Though he is also politically naive as he seemed to think Lianne Dalziel could do badly in Christchurch East (she won’t). My partner also had to make one of his horrible jokes and on leaving the cafe said he could turn his tape recorder off now.

  14. ianmac 14
    20 November 2011 at 11:33 am

    Not sure if this has been discussed but The Herald had an excellent interview with Phil. Informed and informative. Good questions and good answers. I emailed Jonathan Milne thanking him and asked if there would be an equivalent with John Key.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503012&objectid=10767256

    • Deuto 14.1
      20 November 2011 at 12:51 pm

      According to The Listener’s (Toby Manhire’s) blog, another no show for Key in respect ot the Q & A.

      “Further inside a two page Q&A spread on the major party leaders – Except that one is missing. Jonathan Milne has a lengthy Q&A with Phil Goff. Opposite where John Key’s would have been, had he not pulled out of the exercise, is a review of the “longest week in politics”. The longest week mainly consists of a dig at Key over the countless times he has declined to appear for interviews with Morning Report to talk about the “real issues”, and the failure of the party to answer policy questions on their website.”

      From that blog, the shortcut to “the longest week” article – http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503012&objectid=10767255

      • Jim Nald 14.1.1
        20 November 2011 at 12:56 pm

        After the 2008 elections, it started to become clear that the bewitching emperor actually had no clothes.

        For the 2011 elections, it is becoming clear that the magical campaign is for a vanishing emperor.

    • Draco T Bastard 14.2
      20 November 2011 at 1:44 pm

      Not a bad interview. A couple of sidesteps from Phil where he didn’t answer the question but not too bad.

      That’s dividends – but we’ll still have control of the companies.

      Oh, no.

      On that one he should have pointed out that NZ law prevents the major stock holders from doing anything that is unfavourable to minor stockholders. Meaning that, even with majority holdings, we wouldn’t be able to do what was best for NZ if it decreased the private owners returns.

  15. mickysavage 15
    20 November 2011 at 12:09 pm

    I just spent a few hours down the Avondale market with a number of Labour activists. The response from the crowd was damn good, way better than in 2008.

    Key was meant to show up at 10 am for a photo opportunity. The police had gone through earlier and a camerawoman from Sky TV was also there.

    So a few labour people went to hang around the front to say gidday to Key and ask if he wanted a cup of tea. And he did not showed up. Pulled the pin at the last minute.

    Is he running scared?

    • ianmac 15.1
      20 November 2011 at 12:27 pm

      The no-show is getting serious not only by Key but for instance the Bridges farce in Tauranga. (See Red Alert.) What on earth is happening. Unprecedented to not meet people in a democracy.
      But wait. What’s the bet that they are going to play the Security card? Someone thought that they had overheard someone whispering in a cafe over coffee that they might be facing something explosive. So to protect all the Government MPs and especially the vulnerable PM they will be closeted indefinitely. Or till after the Election.

      • ianmac 15.1.1
        20 November 2011 at 12:46 pm

        And I have just composed a letter to our local paper based on that wonderful video of the girl crying “Leave John Key Alone!” In print use the same idea defending John Key’s no-show because he is tired from so much posing etc. Will publish it here if it is published in our paper.

      • Jim Nald 15.1.2
        20 November 2011 at 12:46 pm

        We do realise that Key inserts himself into good news (three-way handshake?) but avoids bad news (Melissa Lee, Richard Worth, Pansy Wong, Phil Heatley, …. fill in the blanks, folks).

        What we are seeing now is Key the Opportunist avoiding Key the Bad News.

        Next, waiting to see the former smilingly assasinate the latter.

      • Deuto 15.1.3
        20 November 2011 at 1:09 pm

        Just checked out the post at Red Alert – http://blog1.labour.org.nz/2011/11/20/when-simon-met-deb/

        Good on Deb and the other candidates from the other parties for going to him as he wouldn’t front to any candidate meetings.

  16. Penny Bright 16
    20 November 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Hi folks!
    Seen this?

    Letter to all New Zealand – explaining what is really happening to people throughout Canterbury.

    From: Coleman [mailto:coleman.rm@paradise.net.nz]
    Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2011 6:47 p.m.
    Subject: Here is the Letter to New Zealand that was nailed today to the
    Cross of Many Colours outside CERA’s office

    Hi everyone,

    Here is the Letter to all New Zealand that was nailed to our Cross of Many Colours outside CERA’s door.
    This letter explains what is really happening to people throughout Canterbury.
    We want all NZ to know!!
    Do not believe what the Government is saying.
    Please do not make up your minds about Cantabrians who are struggling unless you read this.

    regards
    Rev. Mike Coleman
    WeCan

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=133bdf33e3a25722&mt=application/msword&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D18afffb768%26view%3Datt%26th%3D133bdf33e3a25722%26attid%3D0.1%26disp%3Dsafe%26zw&sig=AHIEtbSAbrUiMLPPIOJoixo7KAq7vjsW6A&pli=1
    ____________________________________________________________________________
    Forwarded in the public interest by Penny Bright
    Independent Candidate for Epsom
    [email deleted]

  17. Zorr 17
    20 November 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Apparently if people vote for Winston then we are dooming out country to another election… at least according to Dear Leader… http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/campaign-trail/6001293/PM-warns-of-Winston-Peters

    I like a little hole digging as much as the next person, but it seems to me that John Key is desperately digging as fast as possible…

    • Uturn 17.1
      20 November 2011 at 2:25 pm

      That’s your problem, Key. It’s what you are paid to do. Don’t come to us saying vote for you because it’s cheaper and your job will be difficult.

      Imagine a minimum wage employee telling his boss that he couldn’t work in a team and could the team be reformed to his liking.

      This a new low in surly, arrogant, self interested behaviour.It’s not his fault if the government collapses, no, it’s our fault. Key is just like the names he calls beneficiaries.

  18. interesting 18
    20 November 2011 at 1:15 pm

    Here is a bit of an Own Goal by the Herald On Sunday:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10767410

    Not only does it show them off side with the public over the Tea-Cup incident….but they commissioned a poll (presumbly to see if Nats had dropped in the polls so they could vindicate themselves) only to find that the Nats have rocketed up and Labour have plummeted.

    “Herald on Sunday, also showed the National Party had a commanding lead over other parties – enough to govern alone.

    The poll was taken over four days and found National had 55.6 per cent support among those polled, more than double the 26.2 per cent polled by the Labour Party.

    The Green Party was next on 11.3 per cent, followed by New Zealand First on 3.6 per cent.

    The Act Party is wallowing on 0.5 per cent and its hopes hang on the Epsom seat deal, which was the subject of the “tea party” between Banks and Key.”

    Oh dear. oh well. so sad.

    • Fortran 18.1
      20 November 2011 at 1:48 pm

      Why would anyone accept a Horizon poll ? Their polling system is outside the acceptable norms and is capable of being rorted as its uses the net only.

      • interesting 18.1.1
        20 November 2011 at 2:45 pm

        They quote two polls in the article.

        THe one that dealt with PARTY votes was NOT done by horizon

  19. Pete George 19
    20 November 2011 at 1:37 pm

    Today is White Ribbon Ride day.

    In 2011 there will be a North and South Island White Ribbon Motorcycle ride. If you own a bike and want to ride with other men that believe violence is an issue worth riding for, then join us. Violence destroys families, sets our children on a destructive journey and affects one in three women.

    Read this Message to Kiwi Men.

    • mik e 19.1
      20 November 2011 at 2:50 pm

      Purile git Alcohol is the biggest single reason men become violent and your leader is quiet happy to let national have its way and let the booze barons wreck this country with cheap alcohol and irresponsible advertising!

      • Pete George 19.1.1
        20 November 2011 at 2:54 pm

        No, men are violent because they learn it incorrectly as a way to resolve things as children, long before they start to drink alcohol.

        Many men can drink alcohol without becoming violent.

        • Colonial Viper 19.1.1.1
          20 November 2011 at 3:12 pm

          Alcohol greatly worsens the results of the emotionally distressed societal conditioning we have in this country.

        • Vicky32 19.1.1.2
          20 November 2011 at 7:41 pm

          Many men can drink alcohol without becoming violent.

          That is true, but it’s undeniable that alcohol provides a handy excuse to let the violence out!

        • mik e 19.1.1.3
          20 November 2011 at 8:30 pm

          How come 80% of crime is alcohol related

          • Jim Nald 19.1.1.3.1
            20 November 2011 at 8:52 pm

            80% would be a very modest figure, or rather an underestimate, among the financial speculators, greedy bankers and corporate looters. Not to mention drug use.

  21. RedBaron 21
    20 November 2011 at 2:00 pm

    IMHO I think that maybe, consciously or unconsciously Key is trying to lose the election and is sabotaging his chances…

    As an onlooker, the feeling is that many Labour politicians have strong interpersonal ties with each other based on mutual respect and friendship, that they socialize, stay at each other’s houses when in town, go tramping together etc. They are largely all in it together and if something goes wrong, then they are not completely isolated.

    Nact politicians, the feeling is that they spend their time in meetings, boardrooms and bars indulging in peer-to-peer competition and one-upmanship and that their relationships (?) are all interpersonal competition. See them doing the sorts of things on a personal basis that Labour pollies might….Nah

    So, it is hard to see Key having any sort of “support peer group” within Nact, actually quite the reverse, any sign of weakness and the hyena’s will start circling.

    General comments for some months have suggested that he’s bored, tired of the job but it’s only been the last 6-8 weeks that the commentary, from all sides of the fence, has labeled him as “stressed.”
    Now, this is a man who wafted through mine disasters, earthquakes etc, all “external” disasters without blinking.

    So what’s changed to make him stressed? Don’t people feel most stressed when they have an internal war going on? Say your boss wants you to rob a bank, most of us would stress over the internal conflict between wanting to be honest, and needing the wages so the kids don’t go hungry.

    Okay there is an election campaign but based on his reaction to other external disasters in itself it probably isn’t enough.

    I suspect that his personal peer support comes mainly from his adult family members, wife, sibs etc and that they are mainly women. His external pressure comes from the likes of Lord Ashcroft etc and the other money interests pulling his string.

    He wants to keep in with the money interests (surrogate fathers), because he needs the alpha male signs of success, but the policy changes they want (and I suspect they are far more draconian than anything we have yet seen) are the sort that would alienate his personal support group.

    Apart from feeling stressed by the competing needs, the best way out of this dilemma is to lose a gracefully as possible and hopefully blame someone else. That way all sides are kept as sweet as possible.

    Just a thought…

    • Colonial Viper 21.1
      20 November 2011 at 3:18 pm

      the man has tens of millions of dollars at his personal disposal. If he wanted to tell the big money wankers to frak off he could. But that would take character and principles that he doesn’t seem to have been in a hurry to develop thus far.

      • Jim Nald 21.1.1
        20 November 2011 at 4:48 pm

        Hey, his character and principles are his assets … for sale, if remaining, or already sold

  22. NickS 22
    20 November 2011 at 3:32 pm

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/marchers-call-fair-shake-4550138

    Skip to the end, as it appears that the government charity fund isn’t working as advertised, having only distributed $14.5million out of approx $100 million in donations…

  23. joe90 23
    20 November 2011 at 4:16 pm

    Tactics employed against OWS: Money, paramilitary policing and violence.

    • uke 23.1
      20 November 2011 at 5:00 pm

      I hope someone has started compiling a list of these fascists.
       
      Whether it’s going to be trials or some kind of truth and reconciliation commision, they have to be held accountable at some stage.

      • Colonial Viper 23.1.1
        20 November 2011 at 8:04 pm

        there are plenty of returned servicemen from Iraq and Afghanistan who have come back to the US with no job and no prospects.

        Oakland Police have already pissed a whole lot of them off.

  24. uke 24
    20 November 2011 at 4:34 pm

    Worth a free download, one day only. From the NZ band Trillion, a song about you know who:
     
    Smiling Assassin
     

  26. Draco T Bastard 26
    20 November 2011 at 6:28 pm

    Just watched the beginning of 3news. It was nothing short of an outright attack on Goff.

    • mickysavage 26.1
      20 November 2011 at 6:35 pm

      Yep and TVone was just as bad. Looked like they double teamed it as they both concentrated on Goff’s memory.

      They both have a go at Goff for his supposed memory lapses.  He did not know with empirical accuracy all of the details of Labour’s funding proposals.  He then gets smacked over.  Hell I bet no one in the party could state the figures with accuracy.

      And they then interview Key and allows him to put the knife in and criticize Goff.

      They have studiously ignored Key’s memory difficulties which include such things as:

      How many rail shares he owned
      Was Lord Ashcroft visiting him or not
      What he thought of the Springbok tour (yeah right)
      What he said the other day to Banks over a cup of tea
      What state the ACT party has been in lately.  He thought they were stable.

      If I had time I could list a number more.

      So why is Goff the one with the bad memory?  I think Key is the one whose memory ought to be tested. 

      • McFlock 26.1.1
        20 November 2011 at 6:59 pm

        It is nice that the only complaint they can muster about goff is that hehas the numbers at his fingertips, rather than making themup on the fly.
         
        The way I see it, his job is to assemble a competent cabinet (shadow or otherwise), keep it working towards the big picture and lead the team. This means a rough idea of specific numbers, but financials are up to the finance team, etc.
         
         

        • Draco T Bastard 26.1.1.1
          20 November 2011 at 7:05 pm

          +1

          Agreed, he’s not running the economy or the country by himself but with the cabinet, the rest of Labour, any coalition parties and all government departments. He doesn’t remember all the precise details? Yeah, not a problem.

          • ianmac 26.1.1.1.1
            20 November 2011 at 7:13 pm

            +1 and the thing that gets me is the dark enjoyment that Garner froths when attacking/denigrating a victim. Remember his manic attack on Winston Peters on behalf of National in 2008 election. A really nasty bully. Bet he re runs that Peters gory witch-hunt in order to help Key.
            Notice that Phil manages to slip in that he was the only one expected to reel off the figures from memory.

            • Colonial Viper 26.1.1.1.1.1
              20 November 2011 at 8:11 pm

              Asshole presenters and interviewers, lets see them conduct an interview, newscast or debate off by heart and without referring to their notes or questions.

              Fucking morons.

        • Carol 26.1.1.2
          20 November 2011 at 7:08 pm

          It is nice that the only complaint they can muster about goff is that hehas the numbers at his fingertips, rather than making themup on the fly.

          That’s what I was thinking. What a lame attack line. So they can’t find fault with the policies then?

          Or maybe they’re a bit afraid to challenge Goff too much on policy, because it might show up the non-existence of National’s policies?

          • Hilary 26.1.1.2.1
            20 November 2011 at 10:10 pm

            I would like someone to ask Key more detail about all those new nurses and teachers he keeps mentioning. How many exactly (without consulting any notes) and where? Because I don’t think they exist.

      • Carol 26.1.2
        20 November 2011 at 7:04 pm

        I rarely watch TV One or TV3 news these days. I get plenty of news from elsewhere, and tend to watch Stratos-AlJazeera at 6pm.

      • Lazy Susan 26.1.3
        20 November 2011 at 10:01 pm

        I was at the Labour Party rally this afternoon and sat close to the press. All the reporters were given a copy of Goff’s speech ahead of time and all were reading it, making copious notes and filing their reports. The one noticeable exception was the TV1 reporter who failed to even read it, it remained firmly rolled up in his hand throughout the entire speech and he didn’t take any notes either Almost as if he’d decided what the story was before he’d even got there.

  27. Penny Bright 27
    20 November 2011 at 8:03 pm

    FYI –

    An explanation of ‘the gambles’ (known as derivatives) – that NZ Prime Minister John Key arguably helped to start, when he was Head of Derivatives for Merrill Lynch?

    “All bets are off on another financial calamity”

    Professor Prem Sikka
    Professor of Accounting
    Centre for Global Accountability
    Essex Business School
    University of Essex

    “Even if the banks are ring-fenced, the destructiveness of their gambling will still engulf society. In December 2007, just before the banking crash hit the headlines, the face value of the gambles (known as derivatives) on the movement of the price of commodities, interest rates, exchange rates and anything else, was $1,148 trillion. Global GDP is about $65 trillion. Just 1 per cent negative exposure or loss can wreck the global economy. Where will the money for gambling come from? Inevitably, it will be provided by financial intermediaries from ordinary people’s savings. If the gambles pay off, bankers and intermediaries will collect mega-bucks. If they don’t, then the savings of ordinary people will be decimated. Remember, ordinary people are never asked by fund managers or insurance companies whether their savings should be channelled into complex gambles. So the ring-fencing of investment operations will not shield innocent bystanders. The way to curb destructive gambling is by removing the benefit of limited liability from investment banking. Let the bankers play with their own money and do not permit them to dump their losses on others.”

    ________________________________________________________________________

    t http://www.tribunemagazine.co.uk/2011/09/all-bets-are-off-on-another-financial-calamity/

    All bets are off on another financial calamity

    The banking crisis has been making headlines for the past three years. Bankers indulged in an orgy of irresponsibility, gambled other people’s money, lied about the quality of their products, published opaque and misleading accounts and collected telephone number salaries.

    by Prem Sikka
    Saturday, September 24th, 2011

    Yet there has been no public inquiry, no royal commission and no prosecutions, even though taxpayers initially coughed up £1.16 trillion in loans and guarantees to bailout the banks. This amount now stands at around £500 billion and is a major cause of the austerity programme.

    ……………………

    The proposals have generally been welcomed by the press and political parties in this country, but are unlikely to solve banking woes. A key problem has been the ability of the banks to create credit which has no relationship with the real economy. The ICB does not consider any of the issues arising from this. Why is the Government leaving the creation of credit and money to private corporations?

    The Commission favours the corporate structure enjoyed by banks, but fails to address any of the systemic pressures that resulted in the current crisis. For example, as corporate entities, banks are susceptible to stock market pressures to report ever-increasing profits. This encourages banks to push shady products and indulge in excessive risk-taking. Banks, in common with many other corporations, are focused on the short term. The tenure of the typical FTSE350 chief executive is four years – and declining. In this period, they have to collect as much private loot as possible, because their economic success and media stardom is measured by remuneration. So there is every incentive to sacrifice the long term. Some of the pressures could be alleviated by alternative forms of banking ownership structure – for example, co-operatives, mutualisation, ownership by communities, employees or even nationalisation, but none of these are considered by the ICB.

    Contrary to some press comments, the ring-fencing proposals do not embrace the Glass-Steagall Act, passed in the United States in 1933 and subsequently repealed in 1999. The ICB has not asked for a legal separation of the retail and speculative sides. Its “Chinese walls” proposals will not work. Many banks have complex corporate structures spawning the globe and many operate in tax havens with poor regulation. So it is not clear how these operations are to be classified or ring-fenced. Ring-fencing will not insulate banks from the pressures for higher profits and executive remuneration. Northern Rock did not have an investment arm, but went belly-up as directors sought cheap money to expand profits and remuneration. A legal separation and return to mutualisation for some banks may curb some of the worst excesses, but this is not recommended by the ICB.

    Even if the banks are ring-fenced, the destructiveness of their gambling will still engulf society. In December 2007, just before the banking crash hit the headlines, the face value of the gambles (known as derivatives) on the movement of the price of commodities, interest rates, exchange rates and anything else, was $1,148 trillion. Global GDP is about $65 trillion. Just 1 per cent negative exposure or loss can wreck the global economy. Where will the money for gambling come from? Inevitably, it will be provided by financial intermediaries from ordinary people’s savings. If the gambles pay off, bankers and intermediaries will collect mega-bucks. If they don’t, then the savings of ordinary people will be decimated. Remember, ordinary people are never asked by fund managers or insurance companies whether their savings should be channelled into complex gambles. So the ring-fencing of investment operations will not shield innocent bystanders. The way to curb destructive gambling is by removing the benefit of limited liability from investment banking. Let the bankers play with their own money and do not permit them to dump their losses on others.
    ……………….

    The increase in the capital base may be welcomed, but the banks failed because they were unable to meet their financial obligations. Therefore, the focus should be on solvency or the availability of cash, but it attracts no particular suggestions.

    Overall, the Commission’s report is a poor document. It has been produced without any public hearings and collections of facts. The holes in it make it unfit to be the basis of future regulation. For example, it says nothing about the conflicts of interests, incestuous relationship with credit rating agencies, predatory organisational culture that promotes dodgy products (such as payment protection insurance), opaque accounting practices, and the failures of auditors, bank boards and non-executive directors, the capture of the regulators, or the need for responsible lending to generate jobs.”

    Prem Sikka
    Professor of Accounting
    Centre for Global Accountability
    Essex Business School
    University of Essex

    AABA Website: http://www.aabaglobal.org
    ________________________________________________________________________

    • mik e 27.1
      20 November 2011 at 9:38 pm

      penny no wonder no one engages with you the political saying less is more.Abrievite your BS and we might read it

      • Campbell Larsen 27.1.1
        20 November 2011 at 9:53 pm

        Mik e, people do engage with Penny.
        I agree that the txt dumps are screen hungry and that a link would in some circumstances be preferable but that is probably the worst thing that you can say about her, she is active and present at protests, and has entered into politics in Epsom and she campaigns passionately on the issues that she believes in.
        If anything I would like to see more discussion of Penny’s ideas to reduce corruption and increase accountability and transparency – if people are willing to start participating in that discussion I am sure that Penny will oblige us by using links in future.
        I must really get around to learning how to imbed links myself, something is up with my browser, I don’t even get edit!

        • Draco T Bastard 27.1.1.1
          20 November 2011 at 11:31 pm

          I must really get around to learning how to imbed links myself, something is up with my browser, I don’t even get edit!

          In the FAQ

          NFI WTF you don’t get edit though. Security settings? Pop-up blocking?

      • Penny Bright 27.1.2
        21 November 2011 at 12:00 am

        errrr…………. mike e – I suggest you google Professor Prem Sikka for yourself?

        Prem Sikka
        Professor of Accounting
        Centre for Global Accountability
        Essex Business School
        University of Essex

        AABA Website: http://www.aabaglobal.org

        Professor Prem Sikka is widely published – probably unlike yourself – whoever you are?

        To which of Professor Prem Sikka’s considered opinions did you take the most exception , and for what reason?

        Going to debate the issues – or just whinge and whine ‘mike e’?

        __________________________________________________________________________

        Penny Bright
        Independent Candidate for Epsom

    • prism 27.2
      20 November 2011 at 10:13 pm

      Educational post and should be required reading for us all. I am trying. Have had to inform myself on the meaning of the ICB referred to.
      (International Competitive Bidding – ICB – ICB requires World Bank borrowers to internationally advertise the required goods or services funded by their loans, issue bids for advertisement in an acceptable international language and award contracts to the lowest acceptable bids, subject to certain considerations for qualitative judgment. http://www.answers.com/topic/icb-abbreviation-1 )

      John Key’s Wikipedia entry for his past job connections is worth reading for those like me who haven’t caught up on this.
      Key’s first job was in 1982, as an auditor at McCulloch Menzies, and he then moved to be a project manager at Christchurch-based clothing manufacturer Lane Walker Rudkin for two years.[7] Key began working as a foreign exchange dealer at Elders Finance in Wellington, and rose to the position of head foreign exchange trader two years later,[8] then moved to Auckland-based Bankers Trust in 1988.[3]

      In 1995, he joined Merrill Lynch as head of Asian foreign exchange in Singapore. That same year he was promoted to Merrill’s global head of foreign exchange, based in London, where he may have earned around US$2.25 million a year including bonuses, which is about NZ$5 million at 2001 exchange rates.[3][9]
      Some co-workers called him “the smiling assassin” for maintaining his usual cheerfulness while sacking dozens (some say hundreds) of staff after heavy losses from the 1998 Russian financial crisis.
      So we can expect his pleasant facade to be maintained while the debilitating blows are delivered to the 99% if re-elected. Creepy.

    • NickS 28.1
      20 November 2011 at 8:34 pm

      There’s an authorisation statement, but Slater (being the douchebag he normal is) hasn’t said who it’s by and the pic’s un-readable.

      Furthermore, it’s been sent by normal post with a stamp, instead of the typical way of getting activists out or mass mailing via more streamlined methods. So I’d guess someone’s a trolling, and Slater and the sewer have fallen for it, because sceptical thinking is oh soo too hard for them.

      • ianmac 28.1.1
        20 November 2011 at 8:50 pm

        No its authorised by Chris Flatt. Totally agree with the content. It brings the vague Natrional promises down to the real threat being faced by cuts to Welfare for parents.

        • chris73 28.1.1.1
          20 November 2011 at 8:54 pm

          Its crap, pure and simple and will backfire (again) in Labours face.

          • millsy 28.1.1.1.1
            20 November 2011 at 8:57 pm

            But its OK for people like you to slag off those on benefits. Why do you think its OK for you to be nasty but not the left?

            • Colonial Viper 28.1.1.1.1.1
              20 November 2011 at 9:02 pm

              Seems like the Right wing don’t like it when the agenda hiding under all their PR spin is laid bare for people to see.

            • chris73 28.1.1.1.1.2
              20 November 2011 at 9:02 pm

              Last time I checked I’m not running for office, theres a line and Labour and crossed it. This is what I’d expect from Mana or the Greens not a major political party.

              • NickS …
                20 November 2011 at 9:16 pm

                lolwut?

                This just in, pointing out teh truth is so crossing teh line…

                • chris73 …
                  20 November 2011 at 9:23 pm

                  Its not the truth its merely an opinion. I could say that Labour extending WFF to the unemployed will lock future generations of Kiwis into welfare dependancy and say its the truth when its merely my opinion.

                  • millsy …
                    20 November 2011 at 9:26 pm

                    And I suppose it is your opinion that the poor should have to go out begging on the street, because you dont think that they should have a decent standard of living, or anything.

                    Why do you begrudge poor people getting money, so they can pay for their rent, and food and utilites?

                    • chris73 …
                      20 November 2011 at 10:35 pm

                      So if the unemployed don’t get included in WFF they’ll have to go begging?

                      Gee thats not melodramatic.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      20 November 2011 at 10:49 pm

                      chris73 you are a heartless bitch. Sleep warm tonight in your well insulated home and King Size bed.

                    • NickS …
                      21 November 2011 at 12:51 am

                      So if the unemployed don’t get included in WFF they’ll have to go begging?

                      /facepalm

                      Hello strawman.

                      Now, the main reason why Labours doing this is they’ve finally realised that benefits are too low for raising kids on, creating a wide range of negative outcomes that the rest of society ends up paying for. From a cost/benefit perspective it is thus cheaper to provide teh monies to reduce the problems of poverty, than to pay the much higher social costs later on.

                  • NickS …
                    20 November 2011 at 9:30 pm

                    How so muppet?

                    Because nothing in there clashes with what National’s outlined.

                    Also, welfare dependency is one of those braindead buzz terms that treats the situation of a small minority as somehow of vast importance and ignores the rather blindingly obvious fact that if works available, people will take it if it provides enough hours to live on.

                  • Ianupnorth …
                    20 November 2011 at 10:13 pm

                    So is “Building a brighter future” a statement of truth, a viewpoint or a lie?

        • NickS 28.1.1.2
          20 November 2011 at 9:12 pm

          Ah, still fucking strange it’s been sent out by post.

          Anyhow, you’re pretty much right on the content, but the right’s always found empirical truth to be a nasty thing…

          • mickysavage 28.1.1.2.1
            20 November 2011 at 9:55 pm

            Aint seen it.  I am sure it has not been delivered in Auckland.  We tend to deliver things rather than post them.

            If it is real it may have been delivered in a National stronghold south somewhere.  The poststamp is from Wellington so it could be for Te Tai Tonga.  

            I am not sure about the first statement but the rest is true. 

    • millsy 28.2
      20 November 2011 at 8:54 pm

      That slug needs to really look in the mirror for the nastiness he goes on about. The National Party, and their priviliged supporters have dished it out since 1936, but when someone gives back they always cry foul.

      • chris73 28.2.1
        20 November 2011 at 9:00 pm

        No, what it shows with Labour (and left wing types in general) is that they will say whatever lies they think will get them back into power.

        • mickysavage 28.2.1.1
          20 November 2011 at 9:09 pm

          Chris73 in this weird parallel universe Slater is a decent guy and Labour is the nasty party. It bashes beneficiaries, sacks public servants by the thousand, keeps passing retrospective legislation to take away the rights of ordinary kiwis and tramples of the rights of workers.

          But that is not this universe. Get real. Slater is engaging in that most frustrating of approaches to discussions about current events, he is lying.

        • millsy 28.2.1.2
          20 November 2011 at 9:20 pm

          So you think its OK for Slater to say nasty stuff about people?

          • chris73 28.2.1.2.1
            20 November 2011 at 9:26 pm

            and thats got to do with Labour telling lies how exactly?

            • millsy 28.2.1.2.1.1
              20 November 2011 at 9:28 pm

              Labour is not lying. National plans to force down living standard of the poor, so the rich can have huge tax cuts.

              • chris73 …
                20 November 2011 at 9:38 pm

                Labour is giving tax cuts to the rich as well or does that not count? But more importantly they’re lying because the letter says if you work you can’t celebrate your kids birthday.

                Now I don’t know about you but in my family we had a small celebration during the week to celebrate our birthdays and a bigger celebration on the weekend and no I never felt deprived.

                • Jackal …
                  20 November 2011 at 11:45 pm

                  You really do live in a parallel universe chris73… I’m pretty sure there’s some sort of law against inter-universal commentary. Like a firewall or something.

                  Slater’s nasty campaign is idiotic. His latest attempt completely fails because Labour are merely pointing out a fact… that National’s policy will be detrimental for young children.

                  Severing the attachment bond (PDF) has been shown to cause many problems to children’s development and capabilities later in life. I think it is National that’s being nasty for ignoring this well researched topic.

                  • chris73 …
                    21 November 2011 at 7:05 am

                    Yeah I guess the left also has a problem when the truth of their actions are pointed out to them.

                    • NickS …
                      21 November 2011 at 8:47 am

                      Examples moron, because generally Labour has less of a problem with empirical reality than National, heck even the Greens aren’t as flaky as their name would suggest.

                • felix …
                  20 November 2011 at 11:46 pm

                  “Labour is giving tax cuts to the rich as well or does that not count? ”

                  Can you be more specific about these tax cuts Labour is giving the rich? I haven’t heard of them.

                  Unless of course you’re thinking (and I use the term very loosely) of the $5000 tax-free bracket which applies to everyone and doesn’t favour the rich in any way, in which case you’re a moron.

                  • chris73 …
                    21 November 2011 at 7:03 am

                    Just saying the rich are getting a tax cut. They either are (in which case I’m right and you’re a douche) or they arn’t (in which case I’m wrong and you’re a douche)

                    But can anyone tell me how working men and women today celebrate their kids birthdays because it sounds like Labours saying if you work you can’t celebrate (or subtly be a good parent)

                    Or do Labour think only those on the unemployment benefit should be allowed to celebrate their kids birthdays?

                    • NickS …
                      21 November 2011 at 8:51 am

                      Just saying the rich are getting a tax cut. They either are (in which case I’m right and you’re a douche) or they arn’t (in which case I’m wrong and you’re a douche.

                      Here’s an idea, get more sleep, because you’re making absolutely no sense in this sentence.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      21 November 2011 at 8:55 am

                      Just saying the rich are getting a tax cut.

                      Are you an idiot?

                      Because you don’t seem to have taken into account the reintroduction of the 39% tax rate for those on $150K pa and higher.

                      OK you are an idiot.

    • Campbell Larsen 28.3
      20 November 2011 at 10:03 pm

      Hah, has slug boy been consulting the same ad company that did the ‘thirst is creepy’ campaign?
      I hope he didn’t get charged the original concept rate, because ‘creepy’ has already been around the block. Let me suggest one for him that matches the Rats:

      ‘Policy is creepy’

      A bit more nuance and truth in there I reckon.

  29. ianmac 29
    20 November 2011 at 9:10 pm

    Stopped buying the Listener last year but bought the current issue Nov 19-25 to read their cover story. “Is Key up to the job?”
    Four Economists and Gaynor from the Herald were asked for their assessment of the action taken by Key to manage the economy and be prepared for future problems.
    Toplis from BNZ: NZ was very well set up for the crisis at 2008 but problems have not been attacked esp saving.
    Eaqub NZEIR Chief:No direction on Productivity or Ageing population Super.
    Ganesh Nana Berl Chief: Key has done the easy bits but not confronted the net Foreign Debt-Private.
    Gaynor from Herald: No. Biggest concern is the high Govt Debt$18billion – pie in the sky Treasury Forecasts yet Key paints a rosy picture.

    I hope I have been fair on summary but this article might have upset Key. None of those experts paint a bright response to the big question about Key’s competency.
    But of course it might push a National Government if elected into drastic action next year. And all their plans and policies will be cast aside.
    So beg borrow or steal a copy of that Listener. Sobering.

    • Ianupnorth 29.1
      20 November 2011 at 10:16 pm

      It must be lies, John key is an experienced businessman – oh, wait, he gambled other peoples money and got a cut of the winnings.

      • Colonial Viper 29.1.1
        21 November 2011 at 8:58 am

        All using a corporate machine pre built up ready for him when he turned up. He ain’t no businessman.

  30. Jackal 30
    20 November 2011 at 10:02 pm

    Increasing the minimum wage

    The obvious flip side to not increasing the minimum wage is that inequality increases… so there’s another good reason to increase the minimum wage to at least $15.

  31. Penny Bright 31
    21 November 2011 at 12:05 am

    Just in case you missed this?

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1111/S00095/wheres-nationals-corporate-welfare-reform.htm

    Where’s National’s ‘corporate welfare’ reform?
    Thursday, 3 November 2011, 5:28 pm
    Press Release: Penny Bright

    PRESS RELEASE: Independent Candidate for Epsom Penny Bright:

    “How many billion$ of public monies could be saved by ‘CUTTING OUT THE CONTRACTORS’?
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright
    Independent Candidate for Epsom
    [email deleted]