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Open mike 21/05/2025

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 21st, 2025 - 36 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

36 comments on “Open mike 21/05/2025 ”

  1. Todays Posts 1
    21 May 2025 at 6:00 am

    Today's Posts (updated through the day):

    The Government blinks

    Reply
  2. bwaghorn 2
    21 May 2025 at 7:22 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360696090/act-asked-advice-range-punishments-te-pati-maori-mps-including-imprisonment

    Gutless act party trying to hide the fact that seymour wet his knickers in the house, by trying to sound reasonable.

    Reply
  3. Sanctuary 3
    21 May 2025 at 8:35 am

    This story is completely outrageous. https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360694602/watch-winston-peters-argues-heckler-rail-announcement

    We live in a democracy, and you are perfectly entitled to call a politician a f**king cock. In this case it has absolutely zero to do with the guys employer. He wasn't representing the business, he wasn't on company time, he wasn't on company premises and he wasn't wearing company branded clothing.

    The real story here – especially in the light of this piece "Inside the murky evolution of Dirty Politics 2.0" by Charlie Mitchell and Andrea Vance in the Post

    https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/360683288/inside-murky-evolution-dirty-politics-20

    is just how the heckler got tracked down to his employer, who did the tracking and who informed the media. Is it just a coincidence that the exchange happened to involve Winston Peters, who seems to be "…linked to a loosely coordinated, fiercely partisan network of online accounts that had formed in the orbit of NZ First…"?

    The legacy media need to stop being played as slack jawed dupes in these matters and start behaving like adults with a clue. It is important for our democracy that outraged citizens can abuse politicians and engage in verbal jousts in public places with their elected representatives.

    Reply
    • Ad 3.1
      21 May 2025 at 8:43 am

      The one that annoyed me this morning was the RNZ interview with the Mayor of Hastings being quizzed about the upcoming 100 redundancies.

      If the interviewer had done her job she would have been able to underscore:

      – Mayor was unable to define "essential services"

      – Mayor couldn't identify that the savings had been signalled in the previous LTP

      – Mayor took to 3/4 through the interview to say that actually the net job losses were 50

      – Mayor wasn't even asked why the savings were a "one off" and not a consistent saving

      – Mayor didn't explain how the Water Done Well demands had any bearing on the restructure

      – Mayor wasn't asked if this was just to make her look good to have a completed restructure months from her election

      Just an appalling weak interview with 100 peoples' employment on the line.

      Reply
    • Res Publica 3.2
      21 May 2025 at 12:22 pm

      It’s chilling that someone might lose their job for expressing a political opinion in a personal capacity. If we allow employers to become the de facto arbiters of political expression, we’ve got a serious problem.

      Where’s the Free Speech Union when you need them? Or does “free speech” only count when it’s coming from the right?

      Reply
    • weka 3.3
      21 May 2025 at 1:33 pm

      I saw one of the RW social justice warriors on twitter yesterday posting the video and asking followers to figure out who he was. Heckler and his employer got named, and people were encouraged to contact the employer.

      A few righties came along and said don't do that, but most were into reporting him. Fragile wee NZF supporters.

      Reply
    • SPC 3.4
      21 May 2025 at 2:27 pm

      First going after a judge, threatening media with loss of funding and now employees.

      Seymour would be a worse deputy PM.

      Where does the Chairman of the Board find these directors …

      (Political society and its norms seems like a foreign land to them).

      Reply
    • SPC 3.5
      21 May 2025 at 2:29 pm

      Don Brash has resumed his campaign to abolish the Maori Seats.

      https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/don-brash-the-nail-in-the-coffin-for-maori-seats

      This came to an end when the Turia/Sharples era coalition with National (they have since weaponed UNDRIP signed in 2016 while they were in government).

      The Hobsons Pledge and ACT right agenda is

      1.Treaty Principles replace the Treaty in law.

      (eliminating reference to the Treaty in existing legislation is the part being played by National and NZ First)

      2.End the Waitangi Tribunal.

      3.Abolish the Maori seats.

      To eliminate indigenous and Treaty rights resistance to Atlas Network libertarian neo-liberalism.

      Reply
      • Bearded Git 3.5.1
        21 May 2025 at 3:02 pm

        ….4. Abolish Maori.

        Reply
        • Incognito 3.5.1.1
          21 May 2025 at 3:39 pm

          Yes, you can be Māori in your home or marae but once you leave the front door/gate you become an ordinary New Zealander without cultural ancestry, without ethnicity, and without any special rights other than your property rights and right of free speech, etcetera.

          Reply
          • SPC 3.5.1.1.1
            21 May 2025 at 4:37 pm

            However where a Maori politician is in bed with NACT, then they have the protection of the exercise of employment funding power against their critics, whether in the media, or on the street.

            Reply
            • Incognito 3.5.1.1.1.1
              21 May 2025 at 5:21 pm

              I believe that according to NACT ideology one’s not allowed to have a core identity that’s defined by culture/ethnicity (or religion, for example) but only by one’s ability to participate in the free-market economy. Culture/ethnicity, and other idiosyncrasies, are part of one’s personal brand rather. Therefore, NACToids deny, reject, and ignore the major impact of those idiosyncrasies on that ability; acknowledgement and acceptance would be an ideological sin. Furthermore, those idiosyncrasies cannot and must not impact on the rewards of economic participation, on the ‘fruits of their labour’. Obviously, one can choose (!) to ‘re-brand’ themselves, which would be impossible if one’s core identity is (deeply or inextricably) rooted in any of those idiosyncrasies.

              Reply
    • SPC 3.6
      21 May 2025 at 4:34 pm

      Peters resorts to being insulted by the type of language to work around the right of free speech defence of the employees rights.

      I wonder where he got that idea from?

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/561677/employer-of-man-who-heckled-winston-peters-criticised-after-launching-probe-into-disruption-he-caused

      Reply
      • Jilly Bee 3.6.1
        21 May 2025 at 5:25 pm

        I am reading this piece from RNZ again – firstly the employment lawyer thinks that the verbal stoush between Winston Peters and the bloke who turned out to be an employee of Tonkin & Taylor is 'absolutely' a sackable offence, and, typical Winnie "I've never heard such filthy language out in the public like that – foul, filthy language – and if you think that's free speech, you couldn't be more wrong," – jeepers, I thought he set the ball rolling yelling out 'bollocks' to the protester. Towards the end of the piece, the Free Speech Union jumps to the defence of the protester. Do I change my opinion of that so called union? https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/561702/peters-heckling-it-is-absolutely-a-sackable-offence-employment-lawyer Then he goes and redeems himself somewhat with his statement about the situation in Gaza – https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/561641/winston-peters-joins-allies-in-demanding-israel-allow-aid-into-gaza

        Reply
        • Incognito 3.6.1.1
          21 May 2025 at 5:45 pm

          I know it’s a matter of speech to say that Peters ‘redeemed’ himself, but I reject the notion.

          I don’t think a ‘good’ act can cancel or neutralise a ‘bad’ act in a simplistic way.

          Hackle-Peters is not the same as Gaza-Peters; one is the man himself and the other is Peters as Minister of the Crown.

          Peters is a polarising figure and whilst he’s saved greyhounds from racing, he’s also been a nasty vindictive prick to others.

          Reply
    • Muttonbird 3.7
      21 May 2025 at 6:15 pm

      It feels like Tonkin and Taylor are that unsure of the integrity and vindictiveness of Winston Peters and this government that they are afraid the incident might harm their chances of infrastructure contracts. That is why they quickly prostrated themselves at the feet of the intolerant right.

      I'd say they are correct to be concerned because if there's two things Winston Peters has shown in his 40 years in politics they are that he has no integrity and is extremely vindictive.

      Reply
  5. gsays 5
    21 May 2025 at 11:36 am

    A reasonably dispassionate write up on glyphosate.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/561578/thousands-submit-on-proposed-increase-in-glyphosate-weedkiller-allowed-on-some-crops

    I can't help but sense a little 'capture' of the government agency by the industry.

    Very little testing for glyphosate but when it was done, it was found to be 50 times over the limit. That is given as the reason to increase levels to 100 times the current level.

    No mention of consequences if these limits are breached.

    The rejection of NZ honey by Japan for miniscule amounts is mentioned.

    And these folks are going to oversee the release of a bigger genie from the bottle.

    GMOs.

    Reply
    • bwaghorn 5.1
      21 May 2025 at 1:01 pm

      I can't help but sense a little 'capture' of the government agency by the industry.

      I'd say you’re to kind , national work for the industries

      They'll want to lift it because they're getting resistance, which seems pretty fucking dim to me

      Reply
      • gsays 5.2.1
        21 May 2025 at 9:07 pm

        Thanks for the links Incognito.

        Hell with Arbuckle's logic, I could run food safety in the Ministry for Primary Industries. 'Oh look, we did one test and found this level of glyphosate in the wheat, lets just raise our threshold'.

        The comments articulate the many reasons to oppose this shift. Any use of glyphosate harms insect life, let alone an increase.

        From Kirk Williams comment;

        "Who can trust Monsanto? Remember they were one of the companies along with Dow Chemicals in New Plymouth, that produced 245t/agent orange and for many years promoted it as safe.
        And as for there being no connection between GM changes and glysophate levels, absolutely agree, it is a lie. The same as the lie that the Pay Equity changes supposedly had nothing to do with the forthcoming budget and benefited women."

        And Mike Kay;

        "Glyphosate may or may not be harmful to humans, (although I would point out that Monsanto et al. are well known for effective, expensive and sustained government lobbying across the world, there are many stories of their underhandedness if you care to look), but the real problem is in a few generations, it wipes out insect populations by essentially destroying their immune systems."

        Reply
        • Incognito 5.2.1.1
          21 May 2025 at 9:21 pm

          Growth! Growth! Growth! It’s all about growth, of beautiful crops, of the economy, of profits, growth!

          Reply
        • weka 5.2.1.2
          21 May 2025 at 10:26 pm

          yep, that one, about the insects, the pollinators but also soil organisms.

          It just occurred to me that they may want stronger herbicides because the current ones aren't working so well. I haven't been following, is that a thing?

          Reply
          • gsays 5.2.1.2.1
            22 May 2025 at 6:57 am

            It may well be or become a thing.

            It's more about trade (incoming) and getting the environment set up for the GMO release.

            This is an example of Monsanto's long tentacles and deep pockets influencing policy.

            I know Steve Abel is over this, it's frustrating it doesn't penetrate further into our discourse. The honey export to Japan being refused because of miniscule amounts of glyphosate should have big bells ringing loud, as an example of what we are risking.

            Reply
  6. Incognito 6
    21 May 2025 at 1:33 pm

    The Government’s dismissal and belittling of women workers is the latest in a long history of ignoring the life-making and society-sustaining labour of women. Like some sort of cruel joke, the pay equity claims were dismissed within days of Mother’s Day and May Day.

    https://newsroom.co.nz/2025/05/21/the-coalition-govt-just-doesnt-care-about-women/

    Exactly! It’s dual attack on women and workers by the Coalition.

    Reply
    • Vivie 6.1
      21 May 2025 at 3:02 pm

      On RNZ last week Jo Moir commented about Labour's "own goal" re Jan Tinetti's question to Brooke van Velden, in which Tinetti referenced Andrea Vance's article. https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018987225/act-mp-brooke-van-velden-uses-c-word-in-parliament

      According to feedback to RNZ, most of the listeners considered Van Velden's use of the c… word in her answer disgusting and inappropriate. The vast majority of people interviewed on the streets of Wellington were critical of her using it. (These opinions are not on the RNZ website. For verification perhaps contact RNZ directly).

      This was a transparent attempt to distract from cancelling 33 active pay equity claims and the legislation, and making it harder to pursue claims via the Equal Pay Amendment Act 2025.

      Van Velden misquoted Vance, who did not use the full word in her article. Why was van Velden not required to withdraw and apologise?https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360691630/columnist-dismisses-faux-outrage-after-pay-equity-column

      Van Velden's attempts to play the victim and distract from the damaging amendments to the pay equity legislation seem to have backfired, focussing more attention on the cancelling of the 33 active claims and legislation, and her crassness.

      Former EEO Commissioner Dame Judy McGregor said "I think this is a cruel abuse of human rights and I think the Government will pay for it. I don't think women will take this lying down". https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360681058/equal-pay-law-change-has-passed-who-it-impacts

      Reply
      • Bearded Git 6.1.1
        21 May 2025 at 3:10 pm

        Vivie-you have to remember that Jo Moir, RNZ Political Editor, leans to the Right.

        The RNZ Deputy Political Editor, Craig McCulloch, leans to the Left.

        At least that is my opinion from many listens to both.

        Reply
      • gsays 6.1.2
        21 May 2025 at 8:13 pm

        "Why was van Velden not required to withdraw and apologise?"

        I forget where I read/heard it. Because questions asked in question time are known before hand so they can have an answer prepared. van Velden had cleared the use of the word with the Speaker.

        Reply
    • SPC 6.2
      21 May 2025 at 3:15 pm

      Noting

      1.the risible MW changes

      2.the ending of "Tory" government support for pay equity for all intents and purposes (limitation on claims and using lack of funding to delay and block pay outs)

      3.opposition to Fair Pay Agreements within industry sectors

      leaves opposition to this government with an obvious point of difference in 2026.

      Better pay, without going to Australia.

      Reply
  7. Georgecom 7
    21 May 2025 at 2:41 pm

    NZH story today that Seymours regulatory standards bill will cost the country $20 million a year for the next 20 years with no quantified BCR for its existence. This is on top of his red tape bureaucracy costing taxpayers $10 of millions per year.

    So once again we have Seymour, who whines about government spending and moans about taxes being wasted, wasting $20 million per annum. And more than that wasting $20 million p/a to embed his extreme neoliberal views on future governments.

    If the next Lab-Green-maybe TPM govt wants to find budget savings here is another quick easy saving

    Reply
  8. SPC 8
    21 May 2025 at 2:59 pm

    It seems the Europeans are noticing that if 11 weeks of hunger lasts the entire spring, then the children of mothers starve.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crk2264nrn2o

    Fletcher to UNSC

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-05-15/un-aid-chief-urges-security-council-to-prevent-genocide-in-gaza/105293790

    Response in Israel

    Golan leads the Democrats Party in Israel (merger of Labour and Meretz) and he is supported here by Barak former leader of Labour.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/world/middle-east/ex-israel-general-warns-gaza-pariah-rcna207615

    Reply
  9. SPC 9
    21 May 2025 at 4:25 pm

    The uber right wing mind of Prebble.

    (see 3.5 for the wider ilk).

    1. No stamp duty, no land taxation, no CGT, no gift duty, no wealth/estate//inheritance tax, no tax on landlord mortgages/no tax on mortgages as a tool of the RBG, no FTT – no problem.
    2. The unaffordability of ACC, super and pay equity and a highly paid government sector – the problem.

    It may have escaped his attention pay equity would reduce the pay gap between the public and private sector and so would Fair Pay Agreements and a higher MW.

    Note the focus on the claims of women under ACC.

    He even goes after pay parity for nurses in the primary care system.

    https://archive.li/cgKTF#selection-3951.0-4203.89

    Reply

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