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Open Mike 21/08/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 21st, 2018 - 182 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

182 comments on “Open Mike 21/08/2018 ”

  1. AsleepWhileWalking 1

    Call to action – disabled need basic access!!


    Support Access Alliance presentation at Parliament

    On September 4 the Access Alliance (of which DPA is a member organisation) will gather at Parliament to present Minister for Disability Issues Carmel Sepuloni with a giant-sized version of a booklet full of stories from the disability community.

    These are stories about access barriers which an Accessibility Act could help to remove. We are calling on Minister Sepuloni to listen to our stories and to prioritise accessibility legislation within this Parliamentary term.

    The alliance has been working hard to make sure that your stories and your support for an Accessibility Act are reaching the decision-makers in Parliament. For over a year campaigners from the disability community have been busy meeting with their MPs, sharing their stories, and explaining why we need an accessibility law at the heart of a more inclusive Aotearoa. Others have been meeting with Ministers and starting to figure out how the Access Alliance can work together with our elected representatives to co-design this new law.

    The presentation on September 4 is a chance to celebrate the progress we’ve made to date, but also a call for our Minister for Disability Issues to tell us how she will ensure that this law is prioritised within this term of Government.

    Accessibility Legislation would ensure everyone benefits from an accessible NZ – it would be great to have lots of people at Parliament to show just how important we believe this is.

    When: Tuesday 4 September, arrive at 11am – finished by 12pm
    Where: Outdoors on Parliament Lawn, by the Seddon Statue – enter from Molesworth St

    The event will be NZSL interpreted and the spot where we are gathering is wheelchair-accessible. Please email Áine Kelly-Costello at akelly-costello@blindfoundation.org.nz if you will be driving and need a Mobility carpark as Parliament Security have advised that these are limited.

    Even if you can’t be there on the day, please click here to add your name to the booklet to support prioritising accessibility legislation. The same form will also ask you to RSVP if you can make it.

    The presentation will be streamed live on the Access Matters Facebook page from 11:30am.

  2. Sanctuary 2

    Let me guess, Garth McVicar didn’t get an invite to Andrew Little’s justice reform summit…

  3. Andre 3

    Every now and then, Don of the Deadbrains slips up and accidentally dishes out advice worth acting on. In one of his recent sprays of shitter-twitter he said “Study the late Joseph McCarthy”. You should. You really should, in order to understand who and what is the new McCarthy and the new McCarthyism. This Politico piece summarises it.


    • Dennis Frank 3.1

      Interesting indeed. So the link, Roy Cohn: “he died from AIDS as a man who denied to the end that he was gay”. Populism being the cultural relevance, that tertiary part of the political terrain that the binary left/right frame can’t explain.

      • Andre 3.1.1

        From the viewpoint of trying to work towards a more inclusive accepting society, it always bothers me that Cohn’s sexuality and public denial of it always takes a prominent place in pieces about Cohn. Yet it’s crucial to the understanding the power of othering, understanding Cohn’s use of othering, and I’ll guess his fear of it being applied to him.

  4. Ed 4

    It’s a conversation New Zealand needs to have.
    How much cruelty do we accept as a society?
    Is profit our country ‘s only priority?

    • Ed 4.1

      Checkpoint highlighted the issue.

      Rachel Stewart continued.
      “Anything to say @BeefLambNZ about feedlots, and how we’ve suddenly turned into America? You knew. Why didn’t everybody else?“

      And Jonathan Maze added.
      “Unbelievable, I had no idea this awful kind of “farming” was happening in NZ..”

      • corodale 4.1.1

        Don’t panic, go organic.

      • miravox 4.1.2

        Retail brand is Wakanui Beef – this is the About page:

        Grass-fed and Grain-finished Beef
        The Wakanui story begins on pristine, New Zealand pastures and ends on your plate with unrivalled succulence, flavour and melt-in-the-mouth texture.
        After grazing free range on lush, green pastures for 18 months, only the best cattle are hand selected to be grain finished for approximately 75 days at Five Star Beef, under wide Wakanui skies, refreshed by breezes straight off the Pacific Ocean.
        With a crystal clear artesian water supply and Mid Canterbury grown GMO-free wheat, barley and maize silage, this unique combination of nature and nurture creates truly premium beef.
        Aged for a minimum of 21 days, Wakanui’s unparallelled flavour, distinctive marbling and fine texture will delight your palate.
        What’s more, we’ve mastered the ability to deliver this mouth watering beef consistently all year round.

        The marketing and reality seem slightly divorced from each other, maybe?

        Stockists to avoid (or not) I’ve made a copy in case some businesses unexpectedly disappear – especially the restaurants:

    • James 4.2

      Meh – I grow my own beef anyway – it taste better and my cows have a happy life right up to the end.

    • marty mars 4.3

      Have you written or emailed all the stockists of this meat yet? Or are you all mouth and no trousers.

      • In Vino 4.3.1

        Marty – should I refer you to 3.2.1 on yesterday’s Daily Report? If you are addressing Ed, he did it there, with another list further down.

        • marty mars

          All good. Ed says he cares but he wants others to do the work. Shows he doesn’t care at all.

    • Sanctuary 4.4

      Funny, they never covered this on Country Calendar…

      • dukeofurl 4.4.1

        All the animals live happy ever after on Country Calendar… not even a stock truck in sight

        • greywarshark

          Last night I searched for an audio link to put up here of the Federated Farmers reply to the accusation of bad farming but RNZ only had the one about SAFE.
          I put up the link to the page which had an onsite link but thought it interesting that this large and important body (Fed Farmers) wasn’did not have full audio coverage.

    • This is very much a knee jerk reaction, these cattle are having their needs met, warm and dry, not knee deep in mud, correct nutrition adequate vitamins and minerals as opposed to grass fed animals, not being fed toxic members of the cabbage family.
      Worm free without having to be drenched.
      Effluent collected and composted not leeching into aquifers.
      What will be next horses in stables dogs in kennels.

      • Ed 4.5.1

        Of course

      • greywarshark 4.5.2

        Are you conditioned by looking after others in confined conditions? Perhaps it has blunted your sensivities Psych Nurse. These animals would be safe and happy in a fenced paddock, no need to keep them confined and standing disconsolately waiting for something to eat besides mud porridge, with dainty blades of grass occasionally.

  5. Dennis Frank 5

    Peter Dunne on MPs pay: set it at the start of a parliamentary term, to remain at that level until the next term. Damn good idea. He told the AM show that the current level is about right. Retired, he can afford to be honest about that…

    • Andre 5.1

      Retired from the position of leader of a party with a caucus of one, with a significantly enhanced pay package from that “leadership” position.

      But yeah, he’s right. Set what it’s going to be pre-election and fix it for the term. Preferably also tie it to a measure of pay relevant to the population as a whole, such as some multiple of the 25th percentile income.

      • Dennis Frank 5.1.1

        Govt will be revising the way the remuneration authority does its thing apparently, so your suggestion may get taken up. I agree it ought to be related to some kind of indicator of the average income (agnostic on how to do that).

    • Incognito 5.2

      What we pay [them] is what they get.

      But it’s not quite that simple, is it?


      • Dennis Frank 5.2.1

        True. Entitlements are residue of empire & patriarchy, best eliminated. Can’t expect women to take a political stand on this. Too subtle. Female politicians probably enjoy the perks of office as much as males.

        • solkta

          Can’t expect women to take a political stand on this. Too subtle.

          I think your misogyny is hanging out again.

          • Dennis Frank

            I was hoping to flush out a bunch of female deniers to liven up the day. Reckon it’ll work? If I’d just framed it as a privileged institutional thing, people would get bored to death.

            • solkta

              Oh, “female deniers”. What are they denying again?

              • Ad


              • Dennis Frank

                That women haven’t been targeting the residual patriarchy for removal. Last time I pointed that out onsite here it was in relation to the judiciary & got total denial in response (mostly via evasion of the point).

                • solkta

                  women haven’t been targeting the residual patriarchy for removal.

                  Oh my god, you mean that the men get the goodies and not the women?

                  • Dennis Frank

                    Incredible though it may seem, I mean what I say. I don’t mind if that seems so old-fashioned that it contravenes postmodern conformity.

                    • solkta

                      I really don’t know what you think you are saying. It looks to me like you just put a dig in against women because women.

                      And i have no idea what might mean by “postmodern conformity”?

                    • Dennis Frank

                      Anyone who has spent most of their life watching the progressive trend toward liberation of the human spirit in general, and the feminist project as in integral part of that, is keenly aware of the part of the establishment that has yet to be rectified.

                      So I’ve spent years expecting feminists to get the job done. Don’t get complacent due to perception of victory when it’s mostly done. If they can see the glass ceiling, how come they can’t see the most entrenched parts of the patriarchy??

                    • solkta

                      Right, so men got the perks for a long time before women got access to them so it is up to women to get rid of them. As i said:

                      It looks to me like you just put a dig in against women because women.

                    • marty mars

                      Your words betray your mindset dennis. Not cool your misogyny, not cool at all. You should have a long look in the mirror imo.

                    • In Vino

                      Have enjoyed all your contributions so far, Dennis, but it does appear to me that this time you picked out only feminist MPs when criticising a fault applying to all MPs.

                    • greywarshark

                      Dennis I don’t think feminists or any females want to see through the glass ceiling the most entrenched parts of the patriarchy.

                    • Dennis Frank

                      Seems to me a perception thing, In Vino. Media reports of women pointing out the glass ceiling effect have been a continual stream in recent years, and I haven’t noticed any of those interviewed ask for male help to rectify the problem.

                      Their confidence that the feminist project can succeed via the solidarity of women is not misplaced, imo. Sharing that confidence, I’ve wondered why they don’t also target other manifestations of the residual patriarchy. Of course men ought to help co-create the equity required.

        • Sabine

          Any reason you could think of that ‘female’ polititians should enjoy the perks of the office less then that the ‘males’?

          • Dennis Frank

            No. Just my way of alerting all to the prolonged perpetuation of the ancient privilege system integral to democracy. It was good to see feminism breach the ramparts back in the day, but I kinda get the impression that there’s a `job done’ syndrome at play. Delusion, not reality.

            • Carolyn_Nth

              Oh for goodness sake! You show no understanding of the breadth and depth of feminist thought, politics and activism.

              If they can see the glass ceiling, how come they can’t see the most entrenched parts of the patriarchy??

              Citations needed of such a reduction of the state of feminism to be in the least bit credible. Who is this “they”? You write as if feminists are a collective, hive mind focusing on one symptom of patriarchy. That may be true of liberal/capitalist feminists as favoured by the mainstream, corporate media.

              But feminism is wide ranging. There have been many theorists, like bell hooks, Sheila Rowbottham, and many more who examined the deep-rooted and all-pervasive nature of patriarchy.

              And many activists have been informed by their work – in campaigning against sexual and domestic violence (very successful from setting up refuges and putting the issue on the agenda), to feminists working within unions for low paid and precarious workers, to the African American women who first coined the term “intersectionality” to explain the complex nature of their oppression, to women working to change the nature of western political and other institutions.

              • Dennis Frank

                Back to the point: lack of feminist political action to eliminate the entrenched privilege-based residual patriarchy. Why this lack? The problem will persist until the solution is applied…

                • Bill

                  Maybe you could begin by differentiating between different feminist schools of thought. (Liberal, anarcho etc)

                  Would you say that there has been no political action to eliminate privilege based residual patriarchy by men?

                  And if you wouldn’t say that, then why say it in relation to women? Do you honestly believe that the sum total of feminism is liberal feminism?

                  • Dennis Frank

                    I’m not into being distracted from the point I’m making – it’s too important to allow that. Others may find such digressions informative, I understand that. Just not me.

                    • Carolyn_Nth

                      Read and learn – just some of the ways women have organised to change the system, since way back – and still get largely ignored by the MSM.


                    • solkta

                      You haven’t got a point to get distracted from. And you haven’t even tried to establish one.

                    • Dennis Frank

                      Does that mean you haven’t read 5 & 5.1.1??

                    • solkta

                      You just said:

                      Back to the point: lack of feminist political action to eliminate the entrenched privilege-based residual patriarchy. Why this lack? The problem will persist until the solution is applied…

                    • Bill

                      The only point you’re making is one disparaging liberal feminists for being liberal feminists in a liberal environment, while denying that any other strand of feminism exists.

                      You’re saying that the politics of MPs, who obviously accept the political environment they operate within to varying degrees, are the only possible or imaginable politics people can have.

                    • Dennis Frank

                      No, Bill. Those assertions of yours are your ways of applying your personal spin to what I wrote. Nothing to do with me.

                • Carolyn_Nth

                  It’s you who says it is lacking. That doesn’t make it so. If you’ve got your head in the sand, and only take the surface of corporate media as your main source, I can’t help you.

                  For a start: there’s Sue Bradford who has been fighting patriarchy and capitalism from within many campaigns for decades.

                  There’s Elizabeth Warren – famous for “she persisted” as a feminist rallying cry- and go read Ad’s post on her today.

                  There’s Metiria Turei who go crucified by our mainstream media, and those from within the entrenched capitalist-patriarchal system.

                  If you can’t help with the enormous task of tackling patriarchy, throwing stones from the shadows does nothing to shed light on the situation.

                  • Dennis Frank

                    I’m helping by specifying the entrenched part of the problem, in the hope that the governmental review of the MPs remuneration body will not allow it to persist.

                    Everything else you mention here is irrelevant to that. Privilege-based perks must be eliminated. MPs have no valid basis for retaining them.

                    • McFlock

                      So mps travelling around the country on parliamentary business shouldn’t have travel costs provided, and the fact those travel costs are still provided is the fault of feminist inaction?

                    • Dennis Frank

                      They get so much money they can fund their travel costs & still be wealthy. It would incentivise them to restrict travel to only that which is necessary. Same as the rest of us.

                    • McFlock

                      I get my travel paid for when I have to travel for work. I even get meals reimbursed.

                      I guess I’m just another tool of the patriarchy

                    • Dennis Frank

                      Gosh, who would have known? Hope it doesn’t cause a personality crisis or switch of identity politics… 😁

                    • McFlock

                      What you’re arguing for is that rural MPs should be paid less than the MP for wellington central, who can walk everywhere or take the cable car.

                • Sabine

                  So you are saying that “the women” – cause feminism – should refuse the perks the men have enjoyed ever since, cause feminism?


                  So you are saying your wife should get paid less then her male counterpart cause feminism?

                  How about you write a concerned letter to all the men, – current and retired – that enjoy benefits that they are entitled to for nothing more then sitting in parliament getting done fuck all – Bill English, Peter Fucking Dunne, The Hologram Syemor, No Bridges Simon, Nick Smith, Shane Jones, etc – to rescind their perks for the better of the country and while you are at it, ask them to forgo pay increases until every worker in NZ is at the very least on a minimum wage.

                  Do not ask the women to forgo what men take for granted.

                  • Dennis Frank

                    No, I’m not saying any of that. I’m advocating for the removal of the privilege-based part of parliamentary democracy. The status quo provides those perks due to tradition, which derives from the patriarchy. It ought to be a job like any other. Do you really believe parliamentarians are a caste above us?

                    • Sabine

                      Dear, they are a caste above us.
                      As are the overpaid bobbleheads in the media – print, radio, TV.
                      The overpaid cops, the overpaid lawyers, overpaid Winz workers, ACC Case workers etc etc etc. In short anyone who can affect your life without a care and a thought. .
                      Even the white people in this country are in a caste above brown people.
                      Men are in a caste above women and children.

                      To repeat:
                      It is not the womens job to clean up after men, it is not the womens job to refuse a perk, a pay, a benefit that men would never refuse just to satisfy your need for purity.
                      It is the womens job to look after themselves, create happiness and a fulfilled life after their own desires, not bound by obsolete ideas of yesteryears or the needs of lazy men.

                    • solkta

                      I think i am starting to get your point:

                      1. Power and privilege today has its roots in power and privilege in the fast

                      2. Patriarchy is an aspect of past power and privilege

                      3. Feminists, them fight the patriarchy so it is their job to fight to get rid of MP perks.

                      I guess then that the only solution, if we are to make progress on anything, is to get the whole of the left to identify as feminist.

        • Cinny

          Wtf Dennis?

          I’d say there are two types of people, those who take advantage of any and all perks, and those that don’t.

          • Dennis Frank

            True. So all those women in parliament who do, how do you feel about their reluctance to admit that they are colluding with paternalism by not opposing the privileges granted them by the residual patriarchy?

            I’m not blaming them for enjoying the baubles of office. They’re being pragmatic in accepting what the system provides. However, along with current enjoyment of the perks, why not organise collectively to eliminate them?

            Parliamentary representation ought to be a job like any other. I don’t see any merit in continuance of a privilege ranking system. Other hierarchies have been eliminated in the past 20 or 30 years (corporations, mostly). Time for that to happen in governance.

            • Cinny

              Dude, I’m concerned that you are creating a debate out of gender. Something I won’t buy into.

              If you want to talk about MP’s collectively, then am happy to engage. But I’m not into gender division in this instance because it totally misses the point and is not needed.

            • mauī

              You’re acting like some belittling Victorian man who blames everyone else for your mistakes. Unpleasant.

            • gsays

              Bro, are you implying that men are incapable of changing the system?

              Way to piss off everyone.

              I would say that ‘feminists’ have enough work tackling gender inequality.

              • Dennis Frank

                I expect feminist-supporting men to collaborate in eliminating the entrenched privilege system. The gender red herring doesn’t apply.

            • marty mars

              Colluding? Wtf – you are losing all the commenter capital youve built up. Just another old pale sexist wanker. Go away.

              • Dennis Frank

                Bullshit. And I’m not here to build up any sort of capital. Sexism is your subjective impression – nothing to do with me. Collusion exists and operates tacitly. It will continue to operate until folks become aware of it. To solve this problem, one must first point it out. Shooting the messenger is just another form of denial.

                • Cinny

                  Dennis, you made it very clear that you were just looking for attention….

                  “I was hoping to flush out a bunch of female deniers to liven up the day. Reckon it’ll work?”

                  • Dennis Frank

                    Not just that. The whole point of operating as a social catalyst is to energise consciousness-raising towards the collaborative solving of the target problem. Whatever rhetorical devices are used in the process, the trick is to get the process happening. Human nature to get distracted onto the personalities involved, but eventually people realise it’s better to play the ball than the man.

                    When everyone does so, the game of politics deepens into collective problem-solving. Some players may remain frivolous (distracted by irrelevancies) but group psychodynamics gell most of them into a task force. Can take years, but someone has to do it (to actualise the progressive agenda, actions replacing words).

                    • Carolyn_Nth

                      Whatever. You really need to stop digging.

                      Thanks for ignoring decades and of collective and widespread feminist effort, and, on the basis of no real research, coming here to tell feminists what we have been doing wrong.

                      We are SOOOO grateful.

                • marty mars

                  Lol sure – you thought you were in control but your ‘authority’ is in your own head – on here you have what you say. And you said it didn’t you? Collusion is your term and your issue – look in the mirror fella.

                  • Dennis Frank

                    I have no control or authority on this issue, Marty. I’m puzzled as to why you think I do. Those two things are elements of the privilege-based part of parliamentary democracy that I’m advocating the removal of!

                    The collusion problem is tacit. All who support the status quo have that collusion operating in the unconscious part of their psyche. To solve the problem, first they must be made aware of it.

                    • marty mars

                      Okay I’ll leave it. I think the way you raised this issue was inflammatory and provocative – I felt sad and let down by you for doing that. Just so unnecessary to raise any issue by offending groups of people especially groups marginalisd by the system you get advantage from just by being male – it actually nuliffies any point being made. Surprised that you seem surprised by this – you have strong experience – probably made it worse imo.

                    • Dennis Frank

                      I understand. People react on a feelings basis to the written word and sometimes the reactions baffle me but I realise that different generational perspectives drive this stuff. Plus the personal histories of other commentators creating a subjective stance too.

                    • solkta

                      Nah ya don’t get to hide behind your generation status. A misogynist is a misogynist in any generation.

                    • Dennis Frank

                      So you come here to call people inaccurate names, eh? You get off on that delusional behaviour?

                    • In Vino

                      Careful, Dennis. Such punctilious nit-picking and persistence set my troll-alert bells ringing.

                    • greywarshark

                      You may be partly right but once you underrate the effort that women have put in to improve their position then the irritation grows.

                      It has been a hard slog and that should not be forgotten even if more could have been done at some stage or another. It’s better to remember there are plenty of other issues that are waiting.

                    • Dennis Frank

                      Ok, In Vino, why not consider how you would feel if, after supporting women’s liberation your entire adult life, someone called you a misogynist. Why would you decide it appropriate to allow them to get away with misrepresenting you??

                    • greywarshark

                      I know just how to answer that one and drop myself in it.
                      You are talking about women and who can understand them, you just have to love them.

                      And of course there is a unisex fit to that argument; turn it round and it applies to men. There just has to be a limit to the foibles and faults that each gender will put up with, so there will be further opportunities to write another chapter of Arms and the Woman.

                      While looking up the term this essay showed up so I’ll put it up to keep restive fighters occupied.

                    • In Vino

                      I don’t know all the past history, Dennis. It just seems to me that you provoked all this by singling out feminists at the start, when your question should have applied to all beneficiaries or bludgers or whatever we like to call them – regarding parliamentary perks.

    • Ngungukai 5.3

      Made synthetic cannabis legal in NZ ?

      Dunne’s greatest achievement ?

  6. Adrian Thornton 6

    Revolution and the Third World: Exploring the Radical Ideas of Anti-Imperialist Economist Samir Amin

  7. Ngungukai 7

    1080 I am guessing there may be a link with Kauri Dieback and 1080 IMHO ?

    1080 may be damaging the kauri roots which opens up a site for phytopthora to enter the tree via the feeder roots ?

    • Andre 7.1

      You got any evidence beyond your guessing?

      Consider: the active substance in 1080 is produced by some plants as a natural defence against grazing animals, and breaks down in soil due to a variety of naturally occurring organisms.


      Consider also: my property and neighbouring properties are heavily affected by kauri dieback, yet 1080 has not been used in the area within the past several decades, if ever.

      • dukeofurl 7.1.1

        Isnt most 1080 distributed in ‘bait traps’ , and only a few areas is it spread by airdrops by helicopter ?
        How does it affect roots when its not spread over the forest floor. of course possums are responsible for their own tree diebacks

        • Andre

          Dunno what the breakdown is between bait traps and aerial dropping, or if the different application methods have different effects on the forest floor.

          But my folks’ farm has a decent-size bush block with kauri and no evidence of die-back, and there’s been plenty of 1080 poison in bait stations around that bush block over the last three decades.

          So that’s two points of anecdata, my place with lots of dieback and no 1080, and my folks with lots of 1080 and no dieback.

          Hey, maybe 1080 is actually a good prophylactic for kauri against dieback, so we should just chuck tons of it around willy-nilly all through kauri forests to protect the kauri. /sarc

    • Stuart Munro 7.2

      Probably not.

      1080 mimics the poisons produced by some plant species, it is deadly to animals, and birds are less affected, though their low body mass means they die anyway.

      Kauri dieback is a fungal disease, as was the cabbage tree dieoff. https://www.kauridieback.co.nz/science-and-research/understanding-the-disease/

      It could create imbalances in soil fauna – but there are other causes as or more likely.

      • Andre 7.2.1

        Strictly speaking phytophthora is not a fungus. Its cell walls are made of different materials than fungus cell walls. It’s possibly called a water mould because on a macro scale it looks and acts like a fungus.

        • Stuart Munro

          Fungal disease is a fair description of its effects, and gives some idea of what treatment might be required. It is likely susceptible to heavy metal poisoning of the sort created by Bordeaux mixture, though that is a temporary solution, and silver compounds are vastly more mycotoxic. More promising long term solutions lie in competitive or inoculating fungal treatments.

          • Andre

            As I understand it, the treatment being trialled to try to slow* the disease (and I’ve applied to the kauri at my place) is borrowed from the avocado industry for managing their phytophtora problems. I’m not aware of it being used for fungal problems, but that’s way outside my expertise, so my lack of awareness doesn’t mean anything. The treatment is injecting a phosphite solution into the trunk using spring-loaded syringes.

            * It’s not a cure. At best using this treatment will buy time until an actual cure is found.

        • Ngungukai

          No shit Einstein ?

          Where did you study microbiology, you are FOS ?

    • mauī 7.3

      The concentration of 1080 in each pellet has reduced over recent decades and so has the amount of pellets per hectare. So I think we would have seen an obvious problem much earlier if there was a link.

      Also like Andre says, there are going to be quite a few areas with dieback that have never been anywhere near 1080. In the scheme of things I think it is only used on something like 2% of DOC land.

  8. Morrissey 8

    Flag-worshipping, saluting, camouflage gear on the sidelines, jets flying over the stadium: Why don’t sports organizations just ban these goons altogether?

    “The dire prospect that opens, therefore, is that America is going to become a mega-banana republic where the army will have more and more importance in Americans’ lives… [D]emocracy is the special condition – a condition we will be called upon to defend in the coming years. That will be enormously difficult because the combination of the corporation, the military, and the complete investiture of the flag with mass spectator sports has set up a pre-fascistic atmosphere in America already.”

    —-Norman Mailer, 2003


    • Sabine 8.1

      Bread and Circus.

      What would they do without Bread and Circuses. it worked since the times of the Roman. Also i find it funny that those that have never served, have managed to dodge the draft not once but several times are often the loudest patriots.

      The last refuge of the scoundrel is patriotism.

      And also the machine needs to recruit its Kanonenfutter, how else to feed the bank accounts if no one wants to do the dying?

      • Morrissey 8.1.1

        Very true, Sabine. I note that we are following this dishonorable practice in N.Z.—one Willie Apiata was featured visiting the All Blacks’ dressing rooms during the last RWC.

    • Bewildered 8.2

      Gotta admit though f16 jets flying low and in formation is pretty cool

  9. marty mars 9

    Sounds good.

    “His character, Cassius “Cash” Green, a low-level telemarketer, learns that, in order to succeed at work, he has to put on a white voice. This does not mean a nasal affectation, along the lines of that corny old nerdy-voice stereotype that mid-level black comedians do. It means putting into your voice an embrace of the ease that white privilege brings. It means sounding as if you’re entitled to the good life. It means feeling calm way down in your soul. It means never having to be afraid someone will call the police on you just because you’re breathing.”


  10. marty mars 10

    This seems awesome – What do current resident dunner commenters think? As a mosgiel/dunners boy I love strong community iniatives from the south. I hope this is all that.

    “After almost five years of planning, work is set to start soon on Dunedin’s first co-housing project.

    Run by Urban Cohousing Otepoti Ltd, it will provide more than 60 residents with shared spaces and 22 units.”


  11. Puckish Rogue 11


    ‘The South African government has begun the process of seizing land from white farmers.

    Local newspaper City Press reports two game farms in the northern province of Limpopo are the first to be targeted for unilateral seizure after negotiations with the owners to purchase the properties stalled.’

    Can’t see how this will end up anyway different to Zimbabwe

  12. marty mars 12

    Good. These scum need cleaned out.

    “A businessman who liquidated his company after being fined almost $430,000 for exploitation has become personally liable for the $120,000 outstanding.

    The Employment Relations Authority joined Jujhar Singh to his previous company, Binde Enterprises, after a Labour Inspectorate investigation found the company owed 75 workers on a vegetable farm in the Bombay Hills nearly $210,000 in wages.”


    • OnceWasTim 12.1


      They’re finally cracking down after years of doing SFA (even when they get evidence and witnesses handed to them on a plate).
      I’d suggest Jujhar Singh spend a little more time at the temple reacquainting himself with a few values.
      It’s good to see a more victims prepared to come forward in the knowledge that something might actually be done.

    • greywarshark 12.2

      A friend took a trip and commented that the organisers said to stand near the buffet table while there was a pre-eats welcome or the food would be gone before getting to the table. This was the case, and it brought to mind how those
      very fast and thorough clearers made their money. It could be imagined that they grabbed all they could from some industry they controlled.

      The aristos said let them eat cake; the nouveau riche think, what the heck I’ll take all I want and if others miss out, hard luck.

  13. veutoviper 13


    Dutton has resigned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Dennis Frank 13.1

      Not even close: “Malcolm Turnbull wins the leadership – 48 to 35”

      • veutoviper 13.1.1

        Really ???

        Yes Turnbull won the leadership – AND Dutton has resigned from Cabinet.

        Mr Dutton has now resigned as Home Affairs and Immigration Minister after losing the challenge and will move to the backbench.


        His resignation as Immigration Minister is well worth celebrating.

        You really have lost the plot today, DF – in more ways than one.

        • Dennis Frank

          Nope, I’m right on track! Job needs doing. People flying off the handle in all directions ain’t my problem. 😁

          • dukeofurl

            Very astute DF
            The media love the hype but its a reasonable victory for Turnbull. So theres internal dissatisfaction…its Australia… thats nothing new.

      • mac1 13.1.2

        If I was the existing leader of a ruling political party and I didn’t have the primary support of 35 out of 83 of my followers, then I’d be very concerned. This ballot reconfirmed his leadership- it wasn’t a new ballot with new contenders. One of the contenders was the incumbent. Turnbull did declare the leadership vacant but 42% preferring another candidate is a sign of a large internal dissatisfaction. 58% of his party MPs supported him. Less than 6 out of ten.

        Then the loser doesn’t pledge his loyalty having lost- he resigns from cabinet, rather than work with Turnbull, or was it to avoid the risk of sacking by a wrathful Turnbull?

        Neither looks good after this stoush.

        • Dennis Frank

          My take is that Turnbull is spooked by current polling. The other dork thought it was a good time to strike but got proved wrong. Labour will win an Oz election held in both short & medium term, eh? So the dork will wait & strike again when Turnbull gets defeated. Is there a better contender who could defeat the dork?

          • dukeofurl

            Even the Greens in Australia have serious infighting that would be unthinkable for the Greens in NZ.
            The point is, all politics in Australia is highly personal, where its me me me.

            Im just surprised some here get caught up in all the hype and what it means when they should see it all in context.

          • RedLogix

            Yes Dutton is doing exactly what his mentor Abbott did; skive off to the back bench and engage in a guerrilla war with Turnbull.

            No-one is happy with the state of Australian politics at the moment; in the past decade all three of the major parties have sustained damage over illegal immigration and climate change. It’s taken a rough toll on everyone, even the Greens have taken a few dents.

            Business leaders are pretty pissed off with the lack of clear policy, and overhearing two conversations this afternoon (if either can be considered representative) many ordinary voters are discomforted by the lack of any credible visible leadership.

            And after their last performance in power, no-one here should crowing about the prospect of the ALP forming a government … the underlying tensions have not gone away.

        • Bewildered

          No many thought not having the support of your caucus colleges was an issue here during the cunners comedy hour I think Cunliffe would have been estatic with those percentages

        • Bewildered

          Not many thought not having the support of your caucus colleges was an issue here during the cunners comedy hour I think Cunliffe would have been estatic with those percentages

          • RedLogix

            Turnbull’s only chance now is to damn the torpedoes and deal resolutely with his caucus rebels.

  14. joe90 14

    Fifty years ago Russia and their Warsaw Pact allies put a stop to the Prague Spring reforms that included giving citizens the opportunity of self determination, free travel, ending censorship of the press, and political surveillance by the secret police.


  15. greywarshark 15

    In case you haven’t thought about Donald Trump for a few hours just a runthrough of an old Philomena Cunk cover on it.

  16. Morrissey 16

    Dismal Panel Guests
    No. 1: GRAHAM BELL

    A crude and ignorant bully, this blustering ex-copper was firmly put in his place one day by fellow Panelist Gordon Campbell. Sadly, few others have been brave enough to take him on….

    Open mike 24/05/2011

    Open mike 24/02/2012

    Open mike 10/08/2012

    Three more Kiwi deaths in Afghanistan

    Possibly the best compendium of Bell-esqueries ever made….

    Dismal Panel Guests is a compilation of the worst guests to appear on RNZ National’s light chat show over the last thirteen or so years. It is compiled by Hector Stoop for Daisycutter Sports, Inc.

  17. OnceWasTim 17

    Oops….posted on yesterday’s OM in error.
    I’d be interested to hear what others think:


    Not a bad idea (for starters)
    Maybe bring them back when senior management / CEOs actually start performing (or not), instead of running Ministries and Departments like their own little feifdoms.

    Can anyone think of a Ministry or Department that’s actually been run well over the past decade?
    Most public servants work in spite of their senior management masters rather than because of them.

    • Dennis Frank 17.1

      In the Newshub story on this in tonight’s news, Hipkins was asked if he thought departmental CEO salaries were okay. His reply: “They’re being paid what they’re being paid.” Such brilliance sets an extremely high bar for other government ministers to measure up to, let alone the poor CEOs. The rocket science industry will be dead keen to recruit him asap.

      • Morrissey 17.1.1

        Dennis, I think you should be careful about using rocket scientists as a benchmark for brilliance. What happens if we are inflicted with the presence of a rocket scientist who is clearly stupid?

        The default exemplar for “clever” used to be “brain surgeon”. But then Dr Ben Carson came along. He was one of the dimmest of the dim bulbs that ran, or more accurately sleepwalked, for the 2016 Republican nomination. He was allegedly, you may remember, a brain surgeon.

        Hipkins might be fucking up bigtime, but if Ben Carson is any yardstick, he probably would be good enough to be a brain surgeon, if not a rocket scientist.

        • Dennis Frank

          🙂 Hypothetical, stupid rocket scientists, but did bring to mind the brilliant portrayal of Werner Von Braun by Peter Sellers in Dr Strangelove!

          • Morrissey

            I think Peter Sellers actually played that part quite straight.

            When I see people from Trump’s cabinet of grotesques on the television occasionally, Dr. Strangelove appears by comparison comfortingly sane and rational.

  18. Jenny 18

    Is your government killing you?

    We have an app for that

    • Morrissey 18.1

      Jenny, that report is written by the notorious Danny Gold, who files stories from Jerusalem about “contested” neighborhoods. He is dodgy, and if you were smart, you would have nothing to do with his work.

  19. Bewildered 19

    Sobering statement from the herald on socialism when it goes wrong and the money runs out

    “Venezuela was once among Latin America’s most prosperous nations, holding the world’s largest proven oil reserves, but a recent fall in oil prices accompanied by corruption and mismanagement under two decades of socialist rule have left the economy in a historic economic and political crisis.”

    • Ed 19.1


      • Bewildered 19.1.1

        A lot of z Ed dear but still not as many Zs as the zero on the Venezuelan Currency Now go have a chicken sandwich and chill

      • RedLogix 19.1.2

        OK Ed … I spent much of the first six months of this year working alongside some colleagues from Colombia. (A really interesting and deeply underrated Latin nation.). Their response to anything to do with Venezuela was quite different from the torpor you affect.

        Soviet Russia, Maoist China, Pol Pot’s Cambodia, Albania, Cuba, and now Venezuela … there is always an excuse for the humiliating, catastrophic failure. ‘It wasn’t proper communism’, ‘ the leaders were corrupt’, ‘ the reactionary pigs sabotaged us’, ‘the capitalist running dogs …’ and on and on.

        Always the same bloodless denial of anything wrong with the fundamental idea of unconstrained marxism.

        • Morrissey

          Did any of your Colombian “colleagues” support the death squads employed by Senor Uribe? What’s that? All of them did?

          • RedLogix

            Colombia has it’s own problems. If you imagine I’m ignorant of them, then you were not with me at the plant I was at last year, pock-marked by rebel bullets and guarded by armed platoons 24 hrs per day. But there is way more to the country than drug lords, death squads and gross inequality. Like most developing nations it’s changing for the better, and while it’s patchy and messy as always … it’s not the place it was even a decade ago.

            Unlike Venezuela which from the conversations I had with one man, whose home is not too far from the border, what’s happening is not pretty. Yes I’m sure black propaganda exists; but not in a vacuum. When you hear first hand stories from people affected it’s not so easy to dismiss them with ‘zzzz’s.

            • Morrissey

              Great, RedLogix. You seem to be a serious and astute judge of the situation.

              I do disagree, though, with your statement: “I’m sure black propaganda exists; but not in a vacuum.” As we have seen with the baseless, fantastical attacks against Jeremy Corbyn, black propaganda is often a tissue of lies, with no link to reality.

              • Bewildered

                If Corbyn got his hand on the levers of power in the Uk for 20 years it to would mirror Venezuela. Note the herald just sums up the impact of socialist and Marxist economics and societies over the last 100 years History tells you that as does redlogix highlights May I suggest your additional reading is just to find something to deny the obvious and support your fragile beliefs in a totally discredited ideaology

                • Morrissey

                  As I suspected, you are ignorant, and defiant in your ignorance. Don’t suggest anything about my reading; you haven’t a clue.

                  • Bewilderd

                    Tough my friend, i suggest you need to read more widely and far more critically You appear to read only what satisfies an extremely lop sided view of reality

                • RedLogix

                  I disagree Bewildered. Corbyn is not a marxist revolutionary; in a historic context he’s pretty much a middle of the road post-war leftie. While the Overton window shunted right-wards during the 80’s and 90’s, Corbyn wedged firmly in his rather moderate 70’s political space.

                  • Bewildered

                    Fair enough maybe Venezuela is a stretch but 1970s Britain was not to flash, it led to the rise of Thatcher that managed to turn the uk fortunes around

          • Blazer

            ‘The United States was the first country to recognize the independence of the nascent republic, sending the U.S. Navy to prevent Colombia from retaking the territory during the first days of the new Republic. In exchange for its role in defending the Republic, and for constructing the canal, the U.S. was granted a perpetual lease on the land around the canal, known as the Panama Canal Zone, which was later returned to Panama under the terms of the Torrijos–Carter Treaties.’-wiki

            and Torrijos was killed of course.

    • Morrissey 19.2

      Idiot. You need to actually do some serious reading, and stop rehashing black propaganda.

    • joe90 19.3

      Historic my arse.

      Published in 1942, John Gunther’s Inside Latin America described Venezuela fifteen years into the oil boom. Because of the obstructionism and feudal social systems of the landed classes, the land-owners had refused to modernise production methods, preferring cheap and plentiful labour, and when the poor fled the countryside to work in and around the oil-fields, domestic production collapsed.

      Consequently, Caracas had the highest cost of living in the world with food prices typically 20-30 times higher than in the US because most food, along with almost every other sort of goods, was imported, heavily taxed, and levied with tariffs to prop up the local agricultural sector.

      And despite the astronomical oil revenues earned by the ruling classes since the twenties, Venezuela at the time had no industrial base.



      • Morrissey 19.3.1

        Don’t waste any more time addressing him, Joe. You’re attempting to argue in good faith; that troll is not.

        Thanks for those excellent links.

      • RedLogix 19.3.2

        That scenario is indeed typical of almost all Latin American countries in the post-war era, extremes of inequality, ossified hierarchies and entrenched oligarchs. Often propped up by a malign dominance of US interest in the region. All this is understood.

        But does anyone try to justify the horrors of Stalinist Russia by pointing to the feudal backwardness of Czarist Russia?

        • Morrissey

          RedLogix, there is no comparison between Stalinist Russia and democratic Venezuela. For any person to suggest there was a comparison would put that person into the realm of such intellectual luminaries and conspiracy theorists as Leighton Smith and Alex Jones.

          • RedLogix

            Comparison’s are never exact; yet certain patterns do emerge. Venezuela is probably a good example of what happens when entrenched inequality outstays the capacity of the dispossessed to tolerate it, and the reaction instead of evolving incrementally, kicks over the existing order with poor regard to what does and does not work.

            Whether revolutions are triggered by force or ballot box isn’t really germane to the outcome. The historic context is different so I don’t imagine Venezuela will descend into the nightmare of the gulags, although the risk isn’t non-zero. The fact is the country we’re talking about has not seen it’s ‘democratic socialist revolution’ usher in a new era of prosperity and contentment.

            What will most likely happen is that after a period of turmoil lasting perhaps a decade or so, and if they manage to retain some form of democratic accountability , they’ll move toward more moderate political settings.

            • Morrissey

              The Venezuelan government is democratic. It’s been under sustained assault from Colombia and the United States, aided and abetted by the implacable Venezuelan extreme right wing oligarchies, for almost two decades now. There was a coup against the democratic government in 2002; it was reversed after massive civil protests made it impossible for the U.S. backed plotters to operate.

              Venezuela does not operate death squads; the Colombian government did and probably still does. There is no way whatsoever that you could suggest the possibility of democratic Venezuela “descending into the nightmare of the gulags.” I’m interested, by the way, that you did not choose a more relevant example for political repression—like the United States gulag of torture and disappearance sites, starting in occupied Cuba and extending all round the globe.

              • joe90

                Venezuela does not operate death squads

                They did, and more recently, the Operación de Liberación del Pueblo has been accused of doing Maduro’s dirty work.



              • RedLogix

                I hesitate to link to anything because I just know you’ll reflexively dismiss anything and everything as ‘black propaganda’ … but here goes:


                It’s consistent with what I heard first hand from a person living close to the story. It’s not credible or helpful to persist in denying basic facts on the ground … the plain matter is the country is in a deep crisis.

                Certainly there will be external regional players, hostile to what is happening. No quibble. But the left does itself no justice when it forever blames everyone and everything else for it’s repeated failures.

                • Morrissey

                  I hesitate to link to anything because I just know you’ll reflexively dismiss anything and everything as ‘black propaganda’

                  I do not do that “reflexively.” That suggests something automatic and mindless, as opposed to arriving at a conclusion from having studied the matter seriously. You use “reflexively” like Jim Mora uses the word “virtuous”—as a denigration and belittlement.

                  Contrary to your attempt to render my viewpoint into something cartoonish and easily dismissed, I do not pretend that the Venezuelan government is a paragon of virtue, or even moderately well run. From the time of Chavez, the government has made some terrible decisions, choosing to grandstand with stunts such as supplying free fuel to the poor in certain parts of the United States in order to show up the Bush administration. I am also very angry at their loutish attacks on “bourgeois” culture, including Venezuela’s world-renowned El Sistema. Such actions are similar to Castro’s monstrous attacks on Cuba’s world renowned architects in the 1960s for no other reason than they were “bourgeios.”

                  So your suggestion that I “reflexively dismiss anything and everything as ‘black propaganda'” is baseless, as well as insulting.

                  It’s not credible or helpful to persist in denying basic facts on the ground … the plain matter is the country is in a deep crisis.

                  Indeed it is. You’re stating the obvious, and implying that I do not recognize that fact.

                  Certainly there will be external regional players…

                  That’s an anodyne and determinedly benign spin on the bloody insurrection that is being openly aided and abetted by the United States and its most brutal accomplice, Colombia.

                  It’s instructive to contrast your condemnation of democratic Venezuela with your positive, optimistic tone towards its internationally condemned terrorist neighbour, which you insist is “Like most developing nations …. changing for the better, and while it’s patchy and messy as always … it’s not the place it was even a decade ago.” (in

                  I don’t think even silly old Sir Geoffrey Palmer, that dupe of Alvaro Uribe, would be so dishonest as to describe South America’s most repressive state in those terms.

                  • RedLogix

                    You make a number of fair points there and I accept them in good faith.

                    My point is simple, the left has a terrible record at successful socialist revolutions. And it’s not always someone else’s fault.

            • One Two

              In one of the clearest clues yet about Washington’s latest meddling in the politics of Latin America, CIA director Mike Pompeo said he was “hopeful that there can be a transition in Venezuela and we the CIA is doing its best to understand the dynamic there”


              Consider the sanctions as part and parcel of the ‘war’ against V…

    • corodale 19.4

      Defaulted on debt, and reset currency to petro-commodity, hinged to a crypto-blockchain. Sounds good. Hope the Green Investment Bank are following how to do all this. Could Turkey be next? They are taking up crypto-fast, and have recovered all their gold reserves back from the US, earlier this year…


  20. Morrissey 20

    Asia Argento seems to be in serious trouble now,
    but let’s bear in mind that she has also done some very good things.

    I, and many others, have criticized the #MeToo divas for “forgetting” to speak out in support of the heroic Palestinian girl Ahed Tamimi. But some of those women have indeed spoken out. One of them was Asia Argento….


    • Bewildered 20.1

      Shite critisim from you morrissy would be a badge of honour for most people and confirmation they are probably on the write track, hence your feedback on Venezuela is appreciated 😊

  21. eco maori 21

    Good evening Newshub can you see it we are talking about reforming our justice system and what do you not the gangs start playing up is this hard for some person’s who are against our justice reforms. Who’s view on maori is that we are savages they are out there and it’s not very hard for these red neck to pull off this attempted interference of our justice systems reforms.
    And now Duncan you are blowing up the whole issue you are just being played with. The WHOLE of Papatuanuku is watching our Justice systems reforms there is a documentary crew from America filming this all the under privilege native people are watching Aoteraroa why because maori are not the only tangata whenua to be pushed into hardship locked up dieing on the streets and treated as second class people .
    Who Australia America Canada Hawaii and there are many other nation’s who’s native cultures are in dire straight’s . So Aoteraroa will lead the Papatuanuku once again to the correct path of treating native people all people the same as the majority European cultures. Did you see that reality Duncan the other topic’s we have lead the world with Wahine vote Nuclear Free many more .
    Ka kite ano P.S look like Loyd is trimming down

  22. eco maori 22

    The Am Show The giant squid we caught one when I was fishing it was huge we no more about the Marama than Tangaroa’s beautiful creatures that’s a fact.
    The government is being fiscally responsible in freezing mp pay’s and the high payed public servants this goverment is not going to —– on the mokopunas future’s buy loading them with Dept throwing them in jail or poisoning there enviroment .
    Ka kite ano P.S got to go and work my favorite charity

  23. eco maori 23

    The sandflys have been swarming with there actor’s since I exposed there bad behavior at the hospital .
    You see its quite easy to read there body langue as I am looking for these people all the time I know that when ever I go out they are inplay how if a person walks past you they will scan you to see if you are a threat or not if they don’t look at me they no me need I say more and if you flip them the bird to a stranger they will give it back 10 fold .
    I have been reading there body language since gisborne man started his personal vendetta 18 years ago I last seen him with Richard Prebble in the computa repair shop last year
    One day I was walking past a group of sandfly’s contracted actors how do I spot them well they were talking about Ngati Porou historical issues and what do I know we are in Te Arawa whenua they should be talking about Te Arawa issues I can not even find many books on Ngati Porou Book’s in the Rotorua library.
    When I walked back past this group I spoke loud enough so they could hear I said they were muppets with no morels you should have seen they duck for cover muppet puppets .
    And to day they get one of there contracted lairs in Kamart to try a play with my daugther how do I not this person is a contracted liar because I know its history and I know that the sandfly shine there shiny badge and will let people off charges give them thosands of dollars get them jobs they do what ever it takes to get ——-on Eco Maori and its all false .
    They don’t care just so long as the shut up that savage Eco Maori who’s action are letting every body know how flawed the New Zealand Justice is Ana to kai .
    Back up your contracted lies come and arrested me and I will preform Rua Moko in the court house all over your lies and watch your ass burn on the hot coals of the court house Ka kite ano p.s the positive thing to Eco Maori is they are leaving a lot people alone because they are busy playing marball’s with them selves trying to frame Me

  24. eco maori 24

    Eco Maori send’s condolence’s to Gregg Boyded Family he was a cool Kiwi and will be missed

  25. eco maori 25

    Good Evening The Crowd Goes Wild James & Mulls I did not realize that the NRL are having Wahine tangata whenua League team ka pai .
    James you got that accent down to a T.
    Yes Tiger I ignored my elder’s who were letting me know about the aches and pain’s one get’s when you get long in the tooth.
    Mulls I thought you were going to kiss the shield.
    Ka kite ano P.S my challenges to obtain my birth right continues meanest kayaking I have ever seen

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