Open Mike 21/10/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 21st, 2018 - 161 comments
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161 comments on “Open Mike 21/10/2018”

  1. tc 1

    In oz the coal industries Liberals likely to lose Wentworth to independent Karen Phelps.

    There goes the 1 seat majority along with a massive slap in the face from an electorate they held by over 17%. Great quotes from the booths over their scaremongering tactics from punters sick of being treated like fools.

    There probably goes the federal election which is held by May 2019. Those one nation dead rats in the senate proving hard to digest.

    • ScottGN 1.1

      Such is the dysfunction in the Liberal Party room, amazingly the same lunatics who drove Turnbull from office 2 months ago are now trying to blame him for the loss, apparently he didn’t do enough to help Sharma win.

      Phelps has said she won’t vote to bring the government down but ScoMo is in a pretty shitty spot, forced to deal with One Nation in the Senate and now the crossbench in the House of Reps, virtually nothing important will get done before the dissolution.

      The byelection also signals trouble for the Liberal state government in NSW too with the next election due in March next year. We’ve already seen some of the dirty politics they’ll deploy with rumours of bullying by state Labor leader Luke Foley getting an airing in recent days.

      • tc 1.1.1

        Yup and it’s all their own fault allowing a double dissolution general election last time out as normally half the senate go up not all of it.

        This allowed one nation and others to fill up senate seats…..then there’s their own waka jumper Cory bernardi. Shorten should win by default they’re so toxic.

        Media, mining and many other rats causing indigestion.

        • ScottGN 1.1.1.1

          Exit polling in Wentworth is said to show that 78% of electors surveyed said addressing Climate Change and/or reducing coal in favour of renewables were some of their top priorities for government. The Liberal Party in Australia is starting to get seriously adrift of public sentiment on these issues.

          • Dukeofurl 1.1.1.1.1

            The Liberals tried a Israel friendly move by ‘talking up’ the possibility of moving Australias embassy to Jerusalem, as Wentworth is supposed to have a high jewish population. They had a jewish candidate – because it was ‘worth more’!!

            Well the independent candidate is jewish too and gay as well , as Wentworth has a high gay population.

            • ScottGN 1.1.1.1.1.1

              Fortunately that cynical move by ScoMo in the last week of the campaign was viewed as utterly desperate by pretty much everybody and given the short shrift it deserved. As you say Wentworth has a large LGBT cohort and the Liberals also got totally nailed after a plan to let religious schools expel gay students was leaked late in the campaign.

  2. SaveNZ 2

    So it starts… just like Tobacco, big polluters if they can’t lobby their way to destroy the planet, they will litigate it… question is, will our neoliberal focused government choose to fight for the planet and our own sovereignty or just sort a cave in and do a bit of a ‘third way’ spin on doing nothing?

    As the planet warms up and gets more and more overpopulated, more and more fights are gong to be about resources, who owns them and of course big companies have the money to litigate and that is going to be their last options in their dinosaur business.

    After Lange stood up to the US, NZ got international respect, but not sure if the current politicians have that sort of courage.

    from no right turn…

    “The government is currently progressing legislation to ban offshore oil exploration. The oil industry doesn’t like this, because its the first step towards putting them out of business. And now they’re outrageously demanding “compensation” for the violation of their “property rights”:

    A body representing seismic testing companies is demanding more than $100 million in compensation for its members if the Government passes a ban on issuing new exploration permits.”

    http://norightturn.blogspot.com

  3. WeTheBleeple 3

    Big Money to be made aligning with corporate National and screwing the workers.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12145140

    Another Knight in shining armor.

    • SaveNZ 3.1

      I have heard Wellington property has gone up 24% in two years.

      Welcome to Auckland. I hear Rotorua and many other places are doing the same.

      About time that people and corporations that own hundreds of millions of dollars worth of property in NZ pay a stamp duty on purchases over 5 million.

      I know this will tear the hearts out of the neoliberals that think the middle classes should pay property taxes while those billionaires should be exempt… and spare a thought for all those like Peter, and (Zhang) who might have to start paying taxes more in line with their wealth… but at the end of the day when you can buy a knighthood and order of merit then you can also buy tax exemptions too for the super wealthy, it seems.

      • SaveNZ 3.1.1

        Apparently rents in Queenstown are now 100% of the minimum wages.

        “Queenstown’s average weekly rent was a record, and is now higher than the entire take-home pay for a person earning the minimum wage.”

        https://www.odt.co.nz/business/resort’s-affordability-still-worst-country

        A high worth stamp duty might dampen down Queenstown and make the developers look at building and pricing under the 5 million mark…

        with all the financial engineering and off shore accountants and lawyers only something that can’t be manipulated like stamp duty (vs taxes based on income) will do the trick to reign in NZ McMansion building booms… (while people’s wages in real terms are declining) ..

        • greywarshark 3.1.1.1

          Does anyone remember Uriah Heep in one of Charles Dickens books – always wringing his hands. That, and constant handwashing must leave Queentowns leaders with the whitest hands, still no ability to handle the idea of housing for all people though there is a clear economic basis for it. The tourism business is dependent on people yet the idea that they need housing and reasonable conditions hasn’t stuck

          Down and Out in Paris and London quote.
          “It is fatal to look hungry. It makes people want to kick you.”

          Are we on the way towards this:
          Hotel work is not particularly hard, but by its nature it comes in rushes and cannot be economized. You cannot, for instance, grill a steak two hours before it is wanted; you have to wait till the last moment, by which time a mass of other work has accumulated, and then do it all together, in frantic haste. The result is that at mealtimes everyone is doing two men’s work, which is impossible without noise and quarrelling. Indeed the quarrels are a necessary part of the process, for the pace would never be kept up if everyone did not accuse everyone else of idling. It was for this reason that during the rush hours the whole staff raged and cursed like demons…

          What keeps a hotel going is the fact that the employees take a genuine pride in their work, beastly and silly though it is. If a man idles, the others soon find him out, and conspire against him to get him sacked. Cooks, waiters and plongeurs differ greatly in outlook, but they are all alike in being proud of their efficiency.
          ― George Orwell, Down and Out in Paris and London
          http://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/prose/DownandOut/downandout_14.html

          I think that the tourism workers (they are getting called that ugly word
          ‘hospos’) deserve an ombudsman for them in Queenstown, the big spenders’ paradise.

      • millsy 3.1.2

        The time for piecemeal measures has passed. A program of radical housing redistribution is the way of the future.

  4. WeTheBleeple 4

    And, despite politicians acting inhuman and all the other entertainment we’ve had…..

    BS of the week.

    Multiple counts of importation of Class A drugs. Originally only got Home Detention.

    Quashed! Rich listers kid (kid – he’s 51) gets let off. Listen to the judges blather on how this is not serious criminal activity. He’s no other convictions, so you know, a rich kid, must be an angel.

    Fucking pieces of shit. That’s my nice version.

    • SaveNZ 4.1

      Yes for lesser mortals… two years and four months, jail.

      https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/man-jailed-over-drugs

    • Nah. Good call by the judge.

      “I am influenced by the low quantity of each importation, the short duration of what is a lapse from law abiding conduct, the motivations behind the offending, the long standing and independently established battle with depression that no doubt influenced his decision-making, the ready acceptance of responsibility, the genuine and determined efforts to address the causes, the apparent success of those efforts, and the significant direct consequences that will occur if convictions result.”

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12145311

      • Graeme 4.2.1

        Totally agree marty. This is what a health focused approach to drug problems would look like. Helping the individual to get their life on track, on punitive action that will most likely condemn them to ongoing problems.

        The only regret I have with this is that the judge at his first trial didn’t take the same approach, and went further suppressing the guy’s name. Name suppression isn’t an option now as his conviction is already out there.

        Fortunately for the guy, and our society there’s been a change in the political and social climate and the judiciary are reflecting that.

        • Rosemary McDonald 4.2.1.1

          “Fortunately for the guy, ….” he probably had access to the best legal defense team a shitload of family money can buy and was most likely advised by same to fall heavily on his sword.

          Score par excellence for his lawyers.

        • SaveNZ 4.2.1.2

          I’m more concerned about the discrepancy in the justice system… rich person gets no conviction, poor person gets conviction, 2+ years prison… similar crimes..

        • marty mars 4.2.1.3

          Sadly Graeme from the comments I’ve read on fbook most just want the guy punished. Apparently that’ll even some score. And really make him not do it again.

      • joe90 4.2.2

        Tell that to all the folk who over the years have had their lives irrevocably changed by the lengthy prison sentences handed down for possession for supply of less than a tenth the amount of a class A substance.

        • marty mars 4.2.2.1

          So you want everybody to be treated as shit as those people. I don’t.

          • joe90 4.2.2.1.1

            Nope, but ruined lives probably wouldn’t be anywhere near as ruined if, like this prick, they could’ve afforded the best justice that money can buy.

            • Anne 4.2.2.1.1.1

              Agreed joe90.

              If I thought that a poor guy unable to afford any lawyer – let alone a top-notch lawyer – would still get the same level of compassion I, too, would applaud the judge’s decision. But we all know it is not reality. The justice system is weighed against the poor and disadvantaged. That is the way it is and despite all the nice words, I doubt it will change.

      • Stunned mullet 4.2.3

        Thanks Marty – I was tending towards the lock him up punishment route but reading the judges decision I agree this is a far better approach.

        • KJT 4.2.3.1

          Agree, but not the same as the woman, who got two years in Northland, for possession of cannabis, while a bunch of rich kids stealing for kicks, didn’t get jail time.

          We have two justice systems, one for rich white people and another for poor brown people.

    • Jack Ramaka 4.3

      If you a white wealthy and well connected it helps compared to being brown and poor here in NZ. Got to keep those jails full and get those darkies off the streets ?

  5. Marcus Morris 5

    This is an extract from Bryce Edwards in today’s Herald re the current Ross?bridges/National Party debacle.

    “Some of this might be good for politics and democracy. After all, they say that sunlight is the best disinfectant. The donations issue is substantive and needs to be properly investigated. Issues around sexual harassment, or worse, shouldn’t be buried. And the questions about the connection of wealthy business donors to other foreign governments will continue to be examined for a long time after this immediate scandal dies down.”

    Hear hear to all that and is the time right to reintroduce the notion of the government funding of election campaigning.

    In the article he does talk about the “Nuclear Deterrent” aspect of attack politics and he cites examples of the last twenty years when warnings have been fired. The worst cases of political/character assassination previous to this (in the period I have taken a serious interest in politics) both belong to R.D. Muldoon and am referring of course to the Sutch and Moyle affairs but everyone, foe and colleague alike were too frightened of RDM to do anything about it.

    • Treetop 5.2

      Moyle is now 89 years old. I would like to know what his opinion is of the character assassination of JLR?

      I also would like to know what Moyle’s opinion is about JLR and the public being able to trust the police to investigate check donations?

      A few days ago I made a remark that JLR is fortunate that there is a Labour government and this will give him some protection.

      For JLR’s sake I really hope that the police put their personal political views to the side.

      The police have a lot to answer for, regarding my issues pertaining to the cop involved in the incident involving Moyle on 17 June 1975. I dated the cop for the first 6 months of 1976 when I was aged 16. I met him at the police barracks in Wellington. Muldoon made an allegation about Moyle on 4 November 1976 in parliament.

      My comment is about how lives can be and are ruined when dirty politics are involved.

      I could write a book on how police have mishandled my cycle of complaints. I even have in my memory the file number even though they could not find files.

      I would like to see the full police evidence on Moyle released. It was ordered to be locked up for 25 years by the attorney general in December 1976.

      Before Moyle dies I would like him to recieve an apology from the police for how he was treated.

      Police back then feared Muldoon. Police would not fear the current PM, but there could be a wee issue of being too close.

      I am going out for a walk to clear my head about what happened when I was a youth.

      • alwyn 5.2.1

        Moyle’s career and reputation were pretty well resurrected a long time ago.
        He returned to Parliament in 1981 and was the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries in the Lange/Palmer Government from 1984 to 1990.
        When he retired in 1990 he was awarded a CBE.
        I doubt if he thinks he needs any more recognition or wants any further airing of the story. I don’t know him so I might be wrong though. Do you know if he wants to reopen the matter?

        • Treetop 5.2.1.1

          I do know that in 2006 he did not want to reopen the matter. I need to check the date of his letter.

          I knew everything you wrote.

          I do not want to see what happened to Moyle, character assassination, happen to JLR. Moyle resigned in February 1977 and that says he was pushed out due to the strain. He was not even allowed legal representation at the December 1976 inquiry.

          There are some parallels already, sexual allegations and rumors when there is no charge.

          JLR has been singled out and sexual allegations are being used against him. I do not condone inappropriate verbal or physical abuse between any gender.

          When it comes to the police investigating anything JLR goes to them about, the police better not have all National supporters doing the investigating.

          Did you know that Sir Alfred North’s inquiry took less than a month and none of the then 10 policing team were interviewed other than the 21 year old cop who was involved in the 17 June 1975 incident.

          No one EVER came and asked me what I knew or if I was alright. I was so young and naive.

          A warning letter I sent the cop involved in the Moyle incident really back fired. CIB Wellington rang me at work and said if you don’t come down now, we will send a car around to collect you. This happened in February 1979. A long story about why I wrote the short warning note. I really hit a nerve and the cop used his employer to have me silenced and bullied.

          No one is going to tell me how to feel. Not you, not Moyle, not the cops….

          • alwyn 5.2.1.1.1

            “No one is going to tell me how to feel. Not you”.
            Hey, I really wasn’t trying to do that.
            I was just suggesting to people reading this that he did have a later career.
            I didn’t expect it to be new to you, but a lot of people may never have heard of Moyle and might have been interested.

            • Treetop 5.2.1.1.1.1

              A shortened version of the 1976 inquiry was written by me in 2006. I was going to put it online 4 November due to its historic political importance.

              The thing for me is how a police leak started the Moyle affair and a leak of Bridges expenses have started a storm.

              I do not think much has changed in 40 years in parliament when there is a set of circumstances where political survival is at stake. I have not seen anything at the current scale.

              I want everyone in the National Party to have a good hard think over the next day or two why JLR has done to the caucus what he did.

              As for the party president he needs to go.

      • patricia bremner 5.2.2

        This really resonates.

        JLR has just been committed by the NZ Police to a facility in Auckland.
        Be safe JRL. Being a whistle blower can be dangerous to health.
        Powerful people have been threatened, ( not something they accept.)

        • Ed 5.2.2.1

          Key was threatened

        • Treetop 5.2.2.2

          I hope you are joking.

          That was my fear at the CIB inquisition. That I would be sent to a psychiatric hospital, so I did not speak out.

          I need to take my issue elsewhere.

        • Treetop 5.2.2.3

          You were not joking. I just read the story.

        • mary_a 5.2.2.4

          Hi Patricia (5.2.2) …

          I’m not a Natz supporter, however if whistle blower Jami-Lee Ross did not admit himself voluntarily to a mental health care facility, but was taken by police, then we are in very dangerous territory.

          This is something which is as far as I know, unprecedented in NZ!

          Police involvement is usually only necessary if someone is a danger to themselves or to others, something the public is not aware of at present. So speculation will run rife in the meantime!

          Bridges, Bennett et al have been pushing the mental health issue, using the word “embarrassing” to describe JLR’s condition several times during the past month. I’m sure Natz was fully aware, before Ross was put on “sick leave” that the beans were about to be spilled by JLR. Natz definitely under threat it seems!

          Strange though, since JLR announced he has texts from Key to prove corruption was very much alive and well during his term of office as PM, the police suddenly became involved to take Ross out of circulation!! Also it seems he has no access to his phone. Which leads me to say, will his phone be stripped of information, so as to not incriminate those who feel extremely threatened by JLR’s actions?

          We will have to wait and see I guess, what comes out of all this now! Can’t see much truth being revealed somehow!

    • Jack Ramaka 5.3

      Evidently Muldoon had a signed resignation letter in his top drawer from all his MP’s, very useful if the need arose down the track with a rogue MP who would not toe the party line ?

  6. Ed 6

    A rare insight into the systematic cruelty of the industrial animal farming .

    “But what is life like for a meat chicken?
    Typically they spend their short lives in windowless sheds, packed in with upward of 40,000 other birds and weeks of accumulated waste.
    Bred to produce the maximum amount of meat in the minimum amount of time, broilers often become so top-heavy that they can’t support their own weight.
    American professor of animal science Temple Grandin has stated “lameness is the single most important welfare issue in the meat chicken industry”, and is contrary to the five animal freedoms New Zealand recognises under its Animal Welfare Act.
    These are freedom from hunger and thirst, discomfort, pain, injury and disease, and freedom to express normal behaviours.”

    Eating the meat our farming produces is unspeakably cruel to animals.
    Are you happy with that?

    Read the whole article here

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/107888831/behind-new-zealands-most-popular-meat

  7. SaveNZ 7

    I guess when Auckland property has got too expensive, time to grease the wheels further South… after all 2 Chinese is worth more than a fucking useless Pakeha MP from the provinces… they don’t provide free trips to local government for a start and ‘building relationships’ with the super rich…

    Southland Mayor Gary Tong is in China at the moment, building his relationship with millionaire Yikun Zhang on a trip paid for by Mr Zhang.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/southland/zhang-and-southland-mayor-could-discuss-belt-and-road

    • SaveNZ 7.1

      Some local officials though… not keen to accept unsolicited trips…

      “Clutha District Mayor Brian Cadogan also said he had not had any contact with Mr Zhang but had been offered a trip to China last year out of the blue from Orient Corporation, an Auckland-based company he was unfamiliar with, who offered to pay his travel costs.

      The letter invited Mr Cadogan to China for three days- departing on Friday night, and returning Monday evening. He was invited to meet two local Government officials. Mr Cadogan did not even answer the letter.

      “It’s not what I’m about.”

      • Ed 7.1.1

        It would be good if a journalist or two followed this story up on his return from the People’s Republic.

        • SaveNZ 7.1.1.1

          My guess is most if not all, mayors are being given free trips and ‘access’ to Chinese officials as part of soft power infiltration. It also helps that these Mayors are party to massive amount of property and lucrative resource consents like water which can be beneficial to Chinese interests.

          Anyway, follow the money and work out how many Mayors who take the trips then sell council owned assets and are in favour to consents to Chinese interests… rather than locals interests.

          That is how things are done in China, but in NZ people still expect egalitarian approaches, free of back handers and quid pro quo or worse, corruption, honey traps (sounds like many in power would fall for that one with the amount of affairs going around!) and bribes.

          I would guess the migrants from countries high in corruption come to NZ to escape it, only to find out, sadly members of our government are on the take, and you buy your way into being an MP here. (So I guess, logical conclusion is, if you buy your way into being a politician in the first place, you are fully in the trough to take bribes and favours from your constituents).

          So maybe migrants actually want that fucking useless Pakeha or Maori or NZ born MP, because at least they know the are unlikely to be reporting their activities back to China and (hopefully) not asking for bribes aka donations as part of their roles as might be common from those where it is part and parcel of their home country…

    • JC 7.2

      ” time to grease the wheels further South”

      Perhaps the Urewera too! (although I believe he has turned to art …

      http://wangzhiwen.com.cn/news_view.asp?id=617

      • JC 7.2.1

        That Link may have been a little obsure?

        “Gary Tong (Cali Don), Mayor of Greater South Island, New Zealand, Deputy Consul General of New Zealand in Guangzhou, Emma Hodder (Ms. He Aimei), and
        New Zealand Maori elder Taame iti (Tami Eti),…”

        I understand the “Mayor of Greater South Island” presence. But Tama iti?

        https://www.vice.com/en_nz/article/eza5dk/we-spoke-to-painter-activist-accused-terrorist-tame-iti-about-art-and-maori-sovereignty

        Unless it was just a coincidence ??

      • greywarshark 7.2.2

        The ‘whitey’ doesn’t look very happy. Looks a bit of a hick from the sticks with his hosts in suits. He looks as if last night’s meal didn’t agree with him.
        The full face tattooed man stands out looking solemn –
        aha Tama Iti. I see from the second link he has tattoos all over and they certainly are art works.

        • greywarshark 7.2.2.1

          So that’s Tama Iti/spelling?

          His comments about trying to think freely and independently are about some of Tuhoe but really apply to many of us in NZ I think.

          “We’ve never been in a position to be in charge of our own destiny. We’ve always been slave labour, a slave mentality, co-dependency syndrome… It’s like being in a violent relationship with a man or a woman, you know—you still go back to it. They still go back to the same scenarios, and you say, ‘Why you want to go and do that? Why you want to go and live with him, he’s just going to give you another hiding. How many hidings you want?’

          “But it’s the same, it’s codependency and sometimes people cannot let it go. They think, don’t want to lose it and they still hold on. So the biggest challenge for us is the telling ourselves, we have to be in charge of our future. What does that look like?”

    • Rosemary McDonald 7.3

      Some years ago, I received a shipment of 18 day gestated chicken eggs from a commercial hatchery. They were supposed to be Shavers, a laying breed. ( We’d hatch them in our wee incubator, sex them immediately and raise the hens and rooster chicks separately. The roosters were destined for the pot so they got care and attention but little petting. The hen chicks were petted, as a chook happy with human attention lays more eggs). On this occasion the chicks hatched out all male….and a call to the hatchery informed us they were the meat chicken breed and to feed them a high protein and fat diet and they’ll be ready for slaughter in 8 weeks.

      Hen chicks were fed a high calcium feed so they laid down solid bone for a long life.

      We did the usual and fed these males as we would have their Shaver cousins with the intention to put them in the pot at around 5-6 months.

      What we ended up with were very meaty roosters with good strong bones who did get to do the free ranging thing. The thing is that our egg customers would look at them and enquire as to what type of bird they were…as they certainly bore little resemblance to an average chicken of either sex. Had a kind of turkey look about them….

      When they were killed for the pot…as we did fairy regularly…the grass underneath the processing area died. I have no idea why, and it had never happened before.

      Much of our commercially produced food can’t withstand in depth scrutiny.

      We are what we eat.

    • millsy 7.4

      Forget the Tongs of this world, I think China needs a new Cultural Revolution to rid the country of the new Capitalist Roaders and burgeious reactionaries that have been cultivated by the Dengist government. Of course, poverty and homelessness is sufficient for them rather than the mass murder of the 60s and 70s.

    • Gabby 7.5

      He never did get to the bottom of why that cycle trail cost so darn much did he.

  8. Jenny 8

    Yesterday MIchael Wright asked:

    Is Christchurch the only New Zealand city with too many houses?
    Michael Wright – Stuff.co.nz, October 20, 2018

    The answer is no.

    From the housing debate organised by Renters United last Wednesday

    ….You wouldn’t believe it at the moment, I’ve been in the residential property market and rental market for twenty years. Prices are not likely to rise at the moment.

    “We are struggling to rent [out] properties at the moment.

    If you look on Trade Me Boardroom; Over the last three months, there might be like four thousand properties available. Of that four thousand, two weeks ago,after three months, two and half thousand were still empty.
    I’ve got a property, a one bedroom flat, recently reconditioned, $300 a week, empty.”

    “So actually at the moment in the market, for the first time, we are seeing that the market, the renters, are saying enough is enough.” [Turning to address the Tenant Advocates] And so they [rents] are going down, we are having to drop some properties [rents] by $50 a week. And so you are winning at the moment…..”

    Open Mike 20/10/2018

    Unless we stop them; it is only a matter of time before these rich and venal property developers and speculators start bulldozing new homes to keep the prices up.

    • Dennis Frank 9.1

      Quick comment after listening to the first seven minutes: Clifton & Thomas are doing a masterclass on shallow political analysis as performance art. She comments that Ross seems to genuinely believe he’s the victim. Then she, he, and `shallow is good’ host Wallace Chapman immediately move on, so as to demonstrate to the listeners that none of them are able to focus on a key point.

      • Dennis Frank 9.1.1

        Then Chapman asks Clifton about Lusk, she flounders around for a while doing a lot of ums, says strategist, loner, connects him to Ross, fails to connect him to Collins or Mitchell. Clueless. Thomas mentions that a Herald source is reportedly saying that Ross is ignoring Lusk’s advice. They move on…

  9. SaveNZ 10

    The corporate welfare hands outs and entitlement that just won’t go away… as is the billions that private enterprise can make if they get their grubby hands on Mt Eden land…

    Waterfront stadium consortium asked for $4 million from Auckland Council

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12145492

  10. JohnSelway 11

    I’m starting to have the opinion that JLR is having some sort of mental health episode. I’m fairly familiar with mental health issues (both as a sufferer and a witness) and it strikes me that he having some sort of mania

    • Cinny 11.1

      Sadly the national party doesn’t give a flying fuck about mental health, they part of the problem.

    • patricia bremner 11.2

      Oh, does that mean the rest of that lot are sane???

      • KJT 11.2.1

        I expect so. The mentally ill tend to be more empathetic, and caring of others, than the general population. Maybe because of their experiences.

        No one can accuse National MP’s of either.

        They are not insane, just greedy, sociopathic, self centred and narcissistic.

        The definition of a toddler.

        Arrested development?

    • Treetop 11.3

      JLR just might be feeling relieved to be out of the National Party.

      Possibly some transference could be going on (an unconscious redirection of feelings passed from one person to the next person).

      An example of this would be the Len Brown non disclosure of a $14 expense and the $100k donation check.

      To say JLR is psychotic or delusional, this is character assassination and JLR needs to ignore such comments, I know this would be hard to do.

      Moderator if my comment is over stepping it please delete it.

  11. weston 12

    The eight oclock news on RNZ apparently Jamal Khashoggi killed in a fist fight the saudi,s are now saying .Will nz back this story ??after all our exports to ksa amount to some 500 mil .Maybe its best if we just let the killers get away with it so we can continue getting paid .!!?

    • Morrissey 12.1

      Why not? We do the same thing with Britain and the U.S. Compared to them, Saudi Arabia is restrained.

      • weston 12.1.1

        For once Morrissey one of these particularly dispicable regimes has been caught red handed literally if the turks come through with the tape .For once a small piece of armour has fallen off the beast lets not waste the chance of sticking something sharp in there by saying oh usa uk france etc etc we know all that and maybe theres a good possibility of killing more than one bird with the stone.

        • Morrissey 12.1.1.1

          Fair comment. We need to boycott Israel too. It’s snipers are caught red-handed every Friday killing or maiming journalists, doctors, nurses and schoolchildren. It’s a regime as blatant and as shameless as the one in Riyadh.

          • weston 12.1.1.1.1

            Totally .More like a turkey shoot than a fair fight .Trained soldiers hiding behind walls with sniper rifles and drones against in the main peasants armed with slings .One homemade rocket fired into israel ,have these rockets ever killed anyone ?and theres an immediate retaliation with f16s and high powered artillery more misery and mayhem on and on it goes .As far as SA is concerned though if they can be hurt it makes all those in the spotlight for having dealings with them all the more apparent .Isee the green party has said nz should make a stand an i suppose its a start though pretty gutless of the main parties not to say a damn thing !!

          • Ed 12.1.1.1.2

            The US is as guilty as both.
            How many Iraqis did they kill?

    • Cinny 12.2

      The fist fight excuse is stunning. Wonder how long it took the saudis to come up with that explantion, was it before or after the security cameras were turned off and the painting crew was called in.

      Personally would be thrilled if we stopped trading with the saudis, what they’ve done to those in Yemen is apocalyptic genocide, let alone their latest butchering of a journalist.

      • weston 12.2.1

        Reckon Cinny .NZ has made principled stands on the world stage before and letting the head choppers off scot free should not be an option imo There are lots of people still in the cells who would be greatfull if the world for once DIDNT look the other way .

    • Pete 12.3

      He was killed in a fist fight which caused his fingers and arms and legs and head to ‘fall off’.

    • KJT 12.4

      How many Yemeni’s is one “Journalist” worth?

      Two Indians, or one Chinese?

      How many Iraqi’s or West Papuans?

      • weston 12.4.1

        “How many Yemeni’s is one journalist worth “? In this case all of them !!and the others you mentioned combined because for once the killing machine of KSA has been caught red handed KJT .Now mbs as he likes to be called has a new handle and the whole world will know him as Mahammad Bone saw .His reputation is forever sullied .In the wake of trumps mission to drum up business with the saudis and the cringe factor of his willingness to deal with the devil his rep and that of the usa,s empire is also further sullied .It looks like the momentum of this thing could have far reaching repercussions .Jamal Khashoggi may just be one more journalist turning up dead but brother is he gonna haunt them !!!

  12. A great read. So good. The richness and depth of thinking.

    “And they are unlikely to know about the amazing stories of survival and resilience as his people lost over 90 percent of their land in 20 years, became refugees in their own land, and had their economies stripped from under their feet, their communities broken up and dispersed, their language and culture pushed aside from the land from which it was born — and then how they rallied together with what they had to exist … persist … and prevail.”

    https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/let-your-story-be-heard/

    • solkta 13.1

      That links not working marty.

    • solkta 13.2

      working now.

    • JC 13.3

      Hey Marty. You, Cinny, and/or others up your way have may not have heard, but maybe interested …

      British environmentalist Sir Jonathon Porritt to address a future of sustainability at Nelson lecture this coming week…

      The Cawthron Institute Trust Board is proud to announce British environmentalist, Sir Jonathon Porritt as its speaker for the Thomas Cawthron Memorial Lecture in Nelson Tasman on 23 October 2018.

      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC1810/S00061/sir-jonathon-porritt-to-address-a-future-of-sustainability.htm

      • veutoviper 13.3.1

        Jonathon Porritt – there is a blast from the past. LOL.

        There used to be some really good parties at Government House in Wellington when his dad was Governor-General (1968 – 1972) and Jono was here for holidays from the UK. When he was not here, the parties were still good in the Aides-de-Camp quarters. Memories, memories … ROFL.

        Seriously now, I have followed his career from afar since then and am really impressed with the road he has followed. Would love to go to his Nelson lecture but not feasible etc, so if anyone does go, would love a report back.

        I wonder if anyone will be recording it, live streaming etc?

        Here’s looking at you, RNZ.

  13. patricia bremner 14

    Worked fine for me Marty. A good read indeed.

  14. JC 15

    Is this the most unreasonable job in New Zealand? ;

    “The unpaid work is broken into 11 stints of 10 days.”….. the successful applicant will have to provide their own food, and live in a bunkhouse sharing kitchen and bathroom facilities with the public.

    “But don’t think the role is devoid of perks because ferry service will be provided free of charge.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz//nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12145924&ref=clavis

    Sure a great experience but surely this is pushing that envelope just a bit too far! And/or is it time to change the model?

    (in the 2017/18 financial year DOC utilised 16,737 volunteers.) Although I doubt if that many are of this type

  15. patricia bremner 16

    A thank you. For all the support while I awaited my hip operation.
    I have finally been given a Hospital date to see the surgeon on 4th of Dec.
    That means, even with a 4 month wait it will be over before winter.
    Sometimes I have been testy on here. No excuses now. Thanks for the sanity.

    • veutoviper 16.1

      Congratulations, patricia.

      I initially read that as having your op on 4 Dec and wrote the following:

      “From my experience (11 Dec op) even by Christmas you won’t know yourself – but don’t tell people and let them wait hand and foot on you, do all the cooking etc etc until well into January!”

      But still make others do all of that anyway!

    • Ad 16.2

      Really good to hear and sincerely hope the system works very well for you.

      • patricia bremner 16.2.1

        Thanks Ad. A bit nervous as there are other issues at 77, but I need to lose the constant pain. I have improved the inflamation by using Original Rosehip Vital tablets.

    • Adrian 16.3

      Good luck, I’m having my other one done a few days before. Race you to do a 100 metre sprint first !
      They will get you moving within 24 hours or less, just a few little steps but carry on moving as much as you can when you get home.
      I met a few tragics after my first 8 years ago, they thought a new hip was an excuse to sit on their arse for ever, that attitude will kill you quicker than cyanide.
      The lack of pain by the next day is heaven. Go well.

      • patricia bremner 16.3.1

        Thanks Adrian Having polio at age six, and continuous physio and exercise while learning to walk again and climb stairs dance swim and finally teach for 35 years, I know what you mean. My frustration at the forced inactivity causing some drop off in strength and bone density is galling. So yes, I’ll be up and at ’em.

  16. Carolyn_Nth 17

    Maerama Davidson killing it on twitter today. It began as an early morning thread:

    To be honest NZ had reduced “immigrant communities” meaning Asian and POC peoples, to discussions of economic units long before the release of #JLR tapes. White immigrants have NEVER been slayed under this same dehumanising talk. @TaikaWaititi was always right.


    And under this long-standing false narrative, struggling and marginalised communities have been pit against each other. It’s been a sick distraction away from the systemic roots of an economic system that keeps the wealth in the hands of a few.

    Newshub called it an early morning rant.

    Tiso described newshub’s piece as:

    Classic early morning tirade by Newshub.

    Later Davidson, staying staunch, made this observation:

    Checking the profiles of mens who have messaged me their reckons and uh oh it looks like I am never going to appeal to peeps who have white supremacist flags in their profile darn it!

    If there was one thing I want above all it was to get the white supremacist flag bearers on my side obvs. Please note Newshub this ^ is what is called sarcasm, but knock yourselves out if it’s a quiet news day.

  17. greywarshark 18

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/369114/convictions-quashed-for-son-of-prominent-winemaker

    Uh oh. Well as one drug said to another – Where there is an upper, there is a downer.

    • Anne 18.1

      As the old cliche goes “its nice to be some people”.

      If you have wealth and a [supposedly] worthy name behind you – and a top of the line lawyer – we will let you off with a minimum of punishment. But if you’re poor and come from an inconsequential or troubled background we”ll come down on you like a ton of bricks.

      Par for the course.

  18. newsense 19

    Noticed the lack of character assassination in this reporting and the lack of writing off of the National party as say a bunch of Brett Kavanaugh type greedy frat boys or a bunch of money hungry ghouls whose loyalty and princples match your wallet.

    Where’s Walsingham,ma’am?

  19. Dennis Frank 21

    Breaking news: on Prime just now, Jami-Lee Ross has been admitted to the mental health unit of Auckland Hospital.

    • marty mars 21.1

      “MP Jami-Lee Ross has been taken into mental health care.

      Newstalk ZB understands he was taken in by police.

      He was taken to a facility in Auckland.”

      “…It is unclear if Ross was admitted under the Mental Health (Compulsory Assessment and Treatment) Act, which means that someone can be admitted to a safe place and given treatment against their will if their safety is considered at risk.”

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12146335

      Sounds like he really needs help and is in the best place to get it.

      • Dennis Frank 21.1.1

        Yeah, that’s good. I hope family support will happen too. Wonder if we finally get informed of any diagnosis or privacy law will keep it hidden…

        • Sacha 21.1.1.1

          We really do not need to know. Just focus on behaviours.

          • Dennis Frank 21.1.1.1.1

            I think that info is actually in the public interest, because he was acting on that basis as a whistle-blower. If opponents can discredit his testimony by claiming he’s delusional, the public lose a valuable social justice warrior acting on their behalf. So using the privacy law to destroy his reputation is a breach of natural justice. Just like he pointed out to Simon Bridges that withholding info on the anonymous harassment claims against him was a breach of natural justice.

    • patricia bremner 21.2

      This really resonates.

      JLR has just been committed by the NZ Police to a facility in Auckland.
      Be safe JLR. Being a whistle blower can be dangerous to health.
      Powerful people have been threatened, ( not something they accept.)

      • AsleepWhileWalking 21.2.1

        I wish him a speedy recovery and hope he hasn’t been sectioned (if that’s what it is) as a method to silence him.

      • Carolyn_Nth 21.2.2

        So the report came via NewstalkZB, and via a National Party spokesperson?

        And from the NZH article:

        MP Jami-Lee Ross has been taken into mental health care.

        Newstalk ZB understands he was taken in by police.

        He was taken to a facility in Auckland.

        A National Party spokesman said: “Over the past several weeks the National Party has taken seriously the mental health concerns raised by Mr Ross and the medical professionals he has been involved with. That has included seeking advice from medical professionals and involving Police wherever necessary to ensure support is made available to Mr Ross. It would not be appropriate to comment further.”

        And the Nats put the police onto JLR? Because police are not usually the main people to care for someone’s mental health.

        • it is possible that he was suicidal and was taken into protective care. He has had an enormous amount of pressure on him and probably feeling incredibly guilty and hopeless.

          • millsy 21.2.2.1.1

            I would agree with that. A few years ago, someone I knew got suicidal and had to be admitted to a mental health u nit. A lot of shit happened after that but he looks to have gotten his shit together and going from strength to strength.

        • JohnSelway 21.2.2.2

          Yes the Nats are toady pricks but let’s not ascribe things like them putting the police on to JLR when there is no evidence of it.

          And the police are the most likely to respond to a mental health problem in this country. It happens all the time due to our shitty mental health services.

          • Carolyn_Nth 21.2.2.2.1

            The quote above makes it look like the Nats indeed were the ones who involved the police in taking JLR to a mental health facility. It also looks like the report on it came from the National Party.

            There are questions here that we need answers to. The only reason for Nats to have been involved in this way is if JLR had been endangering the body or life of a National Party member and that person called the Nats in.

            I could understand it more if someone else had been instrumental in calling in the police, because I assume JLR is not on good terms with the National Party hierarchy.

            And the usually very astute Puddleglum seems to agree:

            • JohnSelway 21.2.2.2.1.1

              Maybe with some selective reading. And wishful thinking it reads like that.

              There is no evidence that Nats called the police to section JLR. Mental health is something I am very well informed about and have had the police pick me up before when I’ve called The Crisis Team. Ross could have just as likely called himself. Probably more likely

              • Carolyn_Nth

                It’s just reading what’s there. If it’s poor reporting, or there was good reason for the Nats to call in the police at this stage, it needs to be clarified.

                • Dennis Frank

                  I agree, Carolyn. Problem is, we already have people commenting here to the effect that privacy laws must prevail over the public interest. I reckon the contrary applies. Paranoid folk throughout Aotearoa will see this as agents of the state eliminating a social justice warrior. I haven’t jumped to that conclusion – just saying it looks like that!

                  The motive? Make evidence disappear and whistleblower ineffective. Just what National wants. We need to know why this has happened real fast, and we need to hear how JLR feels about it from him! Anybody trying to use privacy law to stop the media serving the public interest on this situation will become the target of severe criticism.

                  They will start to look like closet fascists in the eyes of many. Putting members of parliament into mental health facilities requires justification. It requires the public to hear the MP say he went willingly. And we need to know if they took his phone!

                  • Carolyn_Nth

                    Well, all the police can do is ask for JLR to be assessed – I think within 72 hours.

                    We need clarification as to whether the Nats initiated this, and whether they reported it to the media.

                    As the assessment has yet to be made, why report it now? It’s only JLR’s business if he is being treated for mental health issues. And it is up to him, or someone supporting him if he is incapable, to make the call to make it public.

                • Chuck

                  The police are only there to protect JLR and others (mental health workers)…only a mental health doctor can commit a person into care (if it is not voluntary).

                  JohnSelway is correct.

        • KJT 21.2.2.3

          Actually. In my experience, If you call the mental health crisis teams for someone, you are almost always told to call the police.

          And, also in my experience, the police have been very good. If they havn’t done the right things occasionally, it has been from lack of support, and knowledge, not effort.

          I’ve seen there is a minority of cops, who think they are above the law. Not a big enough proportion to get away with hiding National’s malfeasance, however.

          • Carolyn_Nth 21.2.2.3.1

            I have not been criticising the police, just that it looks like the Nats called the police, and broke the story to the media. And I have been asking for clarification.

            However, the police do have a patchy track record of seeming to follow the Nats’ bidding on occasions eg the raid on Nicky Hager’s home and seizing of some of his possessions, which was later judged as unlawful.

            • KJT 21.2.2.3.1.1

              Agree. This is a whole level more, however.

              Abducting politicians is still outside SOP in NZ.

              Even if Bridges is that thick, his minders are not.

  20. This has all the drama, malice and evil of MacBeth.

    • Anne 22.1

      +100 TFG.

      National showed its true colours this week. They knew (far better than the rest of us) JLR was having a break-down but instead of staying calm, they went out there and made it a thousand times worse. When it came to the crunch they were all about themselves and didn’t give a damm about JLR.

      Watch them change over the next 24hrs. All of a sudden they’ll be expressing compassion and maybe even pretentious support… having publicly expressed the most vicious language towards him as was possible.

      And who was primarily responsible? Simon Bridges.

      • Chris T 22.1.1

        His doctor cleared him, remember?

        • Ed 22.1.1.1

          This is dodgy as.

        • Ed 22.1.1.2

          “When he talked to media on Tuesday and Wednesday, he said that his doctor had cleared him and he was feeling healthy. He rejected comments from National deputy leader Paula Bennett that he was suffering from mental health issues, saying that his doctor had called Bennett to tell her that he was healthy.”

          This news is either terrible or terrifying.

      • JohnSelway 22.1.2

        Blaming Simon Bridges for a complex issues such as mental health is obscene .

        • Anne 22.1.2.1

          Trust you to misinterpret. If Simon Bridges had not been so determined to hold a major investigation about such a piddling misdemeanor then none of this would have happened.

          • JohnSelway 22.1.2.1.1

            Yeah true Bridges was stupid to get all Scotland Yard about it but sure as shit he didn’t expect one of his MPs to have to be checked into a mental health unit

            • Anne 22.1.2.1.1.1

              Well, he and some of his fellow National parliamentarians made the situation a hundred times worse this week. I don’t approve the extent of Ross’ philandering one little bit, but I do know how many politicians get trapped into this scenario and have done since time immemorial. What he did is no worse than many pollies before him.

              It doesn’t absolve him from cheating on his wife, but all the signs are that National have been using it to maximise distraction from the real issue which was their past gerrymandering of donations to evade having to declare them. That is the real scandal to come out of this mess.

        • AsleepWhileWalking 22.1.2.2

          :uJust because he has mental health issues doesn’t invalidate everything he said.

          I’m guessing that will be the next sweep. Fuck that.

          The National Party doesn’t deserve a shroud of innocence.

          • KJT 22.1.2.2.1

            Yep. The real problem is the dishonest vote sellers in National, will now claim it is all “the ravings of the unhinged”. And their authoritarian followers will believe it.

            • The Fairy Godmother 22.1.2.2.1.1

              Unfortunately you are probably right. The alternative is to realise that Nicky Hager was right all along and the National Party stands for nothing but power and corruption. They would have to accept that they have been duped and will to prefer to think that JLR is crazy.

        • Ffloyd 22.1.2.3

          Why is JLR being treated as having mental issues because he is shining a light on the National Party that needs to be shone. Someone mention Key??? Something is rotten in the State of Denmark. We are in murky waters. We need the truth.

  21. Chris T 23

    I can’t believe some of the comments on here sometimes

  22. Jack Ramaka 24

    Hopefully he makes a full recovery National have really been digging up the dirt on him ?

  23. gsays 25

    Ok, middle class problem time.
    I am near the end of a three week holiday with family, and am in Bangkok due to fly out Monday to Hong Kong then shortly after to Aotearoa.
    My passport is lost/stolen.

    I am seeking an Emergency Travel Document at the embassy here.

    Does anyone know if these can be issued quickly (within hours) if you have the documentation you need, or does it take days.

    Sods law, lose passport on a long weekend, 2 days before non refundable flights home. Argh!

    • Bruce 25.1

      there is a site Thaivisa dot com that may be able to help with info, there is a visa sub forum that seems to have quite knowledgeable posters.

    • Monty 25.2

      The embassy should be able to act quickly. You will need a police report.

      Travel insurance will cover flights and other costs. Get in touch with them early to get assistance.

    • veutoviper 25.3

      What monty says – not an unusual event in that particular country. Consular section of the Embassy are well versed in procedures etc and can issue temp docs quickly.

      • gsays 25.3.1

        Hey thanks VV, Bruce and Monty.
        Your comments are encouraging, I will look up that website, thank-you.
        We will know a lot more tomorrow morning.
        We have been told by insurance and flight folk that we seem organised.

        Will be a shame to leave south east asia, the people and food are incredible.

        • RedLogix 25.3.1.1

          Good luck! Be patient; it will all work out in the end.

          the people and food are incredible.

          Yes, travel or work overseas is such a gift. In my case it’s taught me to treasure NZ even more than I ever did; while at the same time opened my eyes to how insular and petty minded we often are.

          HC understood this; in her own way she hoped to strengthen our often frail sense of nationhood. I’d put it this way … if only we had the confidence to embrace talent and success the same as we celebrate in the All Blacks, NZ would be unstoppable.

    • gsays 25.4

      Thanks again folks, am in Hong Kong about to board to come home.

      Big ups and hugs to embassy staff in Bangkok, worked thru their lunch hour to get it sorted.
      Lost the duty free because the bag had come opened, probably because of rushed packing this arvo

  24. Morrissey 26

    Uh-oh! It’s that notorious ex-ACT M.P. David Garrett again!

    At precisely 3 o’clock this afternoon, Garrett posted the following darkly mysterious notice on Kiwiblog….

    Note to David Fisher and all other Herald “reporters”…a story peripherally involving me will break in the next wee while…Don’t even think about coming out here…

    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/10/general_debate_21_october_2017-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-2338567

    https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/sensible-sentencing-trust-thugs-still.html

  25. Jenny 27

    After all the grief they copped for ripping off M&M. Is it too soon to suggest a new theme tune for National’s 2020 election campaign?

  26. joe90 28

    Oh.

    Apparently the Saudi's are now saying the fight started after an argument over which cathedral in England had the highest spire.— Martin Quinn (@MartinQuinn61) October 20, 2018

  27. eco maori 29

    Here a good story on farming the soil Organic farming and he gives a similar view to me on our future he cares about his grandchildren’s 10 of them future .
    I say Stop wasting time on the cow fart debate Its logical that what comes out of the rear end of animals is nothing when you compare the generation of electricity using carbon / personal car’s /trucks/ planes / container ships ITs carbon we have to sharply lower our uses to 00.1 .
    Solar on houses electric cars electric trucks tree planting.
    ka kite ano P.S I still say roundup is bad for the environment & insects less flowers for insects to feed on

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/22/look-after-the-soil-save-the-earth-farming-in-australias-unrelenting-climate

  28. eco maori 30

    Don’t let this Muppet trump dumb words put your feeling for your future in doubt about YOUR RIGHT’s to vote American Latino and African all minorities Ladies get up and vote for abetter future for your children and there descendants.
    trump can only think about a win who he hurts in the process It does not worry him a bit .I have seen a few Latino African singers reporters Ladies Kia kaha be strong for your children’s future and get out and vote in the American midterm’s .
    This is when you let the world not that you are not afraid to stand up and vote .
    Link is below ka kiteano till I see you again . I still have not made up my mind who I will back to challenge trump in 2020 I want to pick a person who is a champion for the people & the environment who will deliver on there promise last time I backed Sanders. P.S I still like watching the Late Show with Stephen Corlbert

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/21/trump-playful-assault-guardian-reporter-ben-sasse

  29. eco maori 31

    Its time for the next generation the millennial to get up and vote for a better future forall
    The New Zealand Peoples Coalition government is doing a good job

  30. eco maori 32

    Eco Maori Music

  31. eco maori 33

    Eco Maori’s Kiwi Classic Music enjoy

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