Tom O'Connor's article in todays's Dominion Post is worth a read. After all the defence of freedom campers (those who leave their mess behind) on this website it was good to read another point of view. Namely, amongst other comments, why should small councils with a small ratepayer base be put under huge financial strain paying for tourism infrastructure. As he says, let the tourism industry pay for what it needs. And by being more selective, we can avoid holiday destinations being inundated with more people than is manageable.
I have not forgotten being in Oxford, England, many years ago and hearing from the local townspeople that they hated the tourist season there. A smallish town where the locals avoided the town centre during that time as it was completely overwhelmed with visitors.
Its probably more to do with the fact Nash made the comments, the real lefties here hate him with a passion . In the past there have been plenty here decry the cheap tourists shitting their way around nz.
and for the last 8 month its been kiwis that have been shitting their way around NZ.
🙂
and as someone said yesterday, quite a few Kiwis – the homeless ones live in cars and vans absent of anything better.
But i guess its easier to blame tourists that used to spend up to 10 grand here during their 3 month stay. Cause Kiwis would never shit in the woods when they can't find a public toilet, no siree, they would never, they shit in a bucket and wait till they get home to empty it in the potty there.
The insidious link here is that by allowing backpackers to live out of vans for their 12 month stay in New Zealand we have normalised living out of vans and cars. Someone camped on the side of the road isn't seen as a vagrant or homeless anymore, rather a positive contribution to the economy.
Oh come on..!…this is what nz'ers do all over the world ..travel on the cheap..get a grip..!..eh..?.. What is the actual problem..?..(save for the need to build a lot more public toilets…with a shower option..could be outside/cold water..)..lack of infrastructure is the problem..end of story…this scapegoating is both tiresome and xenophobic..
He didn't..and that was a stellar example of his ignorance on that issue..rental vans are the middle of the market..as others have pointed out most long-term young visitors buy a vehicle on arrival and sell it when they go…in the main they don't rent over-priced vans..so nash is way off the mark..hence the ridicule heaped on him..and yes..a lot of those freedom camping/living in camp grounds/moving around are homeless new zealanders..and yes..it may well be time for some political direct action on that front…and a homeless camp on the grounds of parliament..or some other high profile public space could well be an idea/option whose time is nigh….let's see how that would play in the international media..
I think quite a bit hinges on what is said on the 25th in the speech from the throne..if that shows they are going to do s.f.a. about what they promised to do..I reckon it will be all on…there really is no other option…and I will go and stand with them..
Central government should give local councils that deal with high numbers of tourists a grant towards infrastructure….with some of this earmarked for much better public toilet facilities at potential freedom camping locations.
I've been out and about lately and there is a distinct downturn in camper vans. But why should we socialise the cost of overseas tourists where a lot of the money is simply YOYo money. Comes in rents a vehicle profits go overseas, wages to limited term visa holders etc. Is it an industry worth having?
But I wonder if Nash's high end comments are based on those tourist operators being the only ones still complaining. For just standard type accommodation in the North Island it really pays to book ahead because the bulk of them are pretty busy. I struck one provincial town with a reasonable amount of accommodation with the house full sign out on a weekday night in August. No events on.
Nash was stating reality. The only market sector that will be travelling long haul for the foreseeable will be the top end because of cost of fares and insurance. It's going to take a long time before the mass market feels comfortable about cattle class.
The backpacker / freedom camper market has been in decline for last five years, probably peaked 2015. Then Covid came along and pretty much destroyed it.
Tom O'Connor wrote in the article cited above, "……a bucket of cold reality to many in the tourism industry.
The minister is the first in a long time to heed the many calls from throughout the country for the industry to be reeled in and reset to be less harmful to the New Zealand environment and less costly to taxpayers and ratepayers.
The minister made it very clear that he was looking at innovative ways to ensure taxpayers and ratepayers will not continue to pay for tourism’s impact on infrastructure and the environment. He was also clear that he was not closing New Zealand to those tourists who were not wealthy, but they will not be the target market and that every tourist that comes to New Zealand will pay for the New Zealand experience."
O'Connor's third paragraph is one that needs to be read by people involved in this debate.
Firstly, who pays for the litter, the damage to the environment, the increased need for infrastructure? Taxpayer, rates payer or the industry? By extension, should the trucking industry pay only part of the damage caused by its usage of our roads?
Is all this all another example of 'privatise the profits an socialise the costs'?
Secondly, Nash did not argue to exclude 'back-packing' tourists, the non-wealthy.
O'Connor is a former journalist, historian and author and an elected District Councillor. His views would be a better starter for discussions than points of view which misrepresent what Nash said, for example.
too many instant experts here made fools of themselves by attacking the messenger . just because it was said by someone the experts hate, they go off on tangents.
Thanks, woodart. You have simplified the issue. It is one of dislike of a politician clouding the arguments.
John Key said something about staying in government in his speech to the National Party AGM. The comments were about taking and holding the centre. He was good at that- and held power for nine years.
The fear amongst some commentators showing on this blog is that Labour will abandon the left to keep the centre. Therefore anything resembling centrist policies will be reviled by some; and centrist Labour politicians will be attacked.
The thing is that Labour's policies and actions are different from Key's centralism, though I'm sure that will be hotly contested.
For politics is the art of the possible. Some of our political commentariat have to understand basic rules of politics. Advocates for change don't obtain that by faulty reasoning, blame and personality attacks.
It's one thing to keep one's ideology pure and not be able to apply it by never getting into power. It's better to be more aware of where the electorate sits on issues and by showing it that change can be managed acceptably by the use of political power in government, keep the centre and thereby the power to make changes.
Key also had another reason to keep the centre happy. National party politics is about keeping power, especially keeping it away from the hands of reformers and the socially minded. For Key , and National, it's about that- exercise power for the advantage of 'their people'.
John Key telegraphed his fear. That Labour by holding the centre would hold power for several elections. This why he never went as far right as some wished to push him. He understands that hope for change is not a strategy. He understands loyalty and solidarity, focus and discipline.
After him, National lost that and like the All Blacks under pressure, the weak and the under-prepared, the glory boys and the unsuitable, cracked and lost.
We may celebrate with popping corks that fact that Goodfellow has been re-elected to National's presidency, that they seem not to have learnt the lessons of electoral defeat- but eventually they'll get it.
"Trust me," said Key during that speech. Trust is what got Labour there- trust in Ardern and good ministers, trust in wise decisions and actions, trust in Labour's basic good will.
Meh.
I live near a local tourist attraction. Can't see the appeal in it myself, but there are fools wandering around the street every day. It took the council years of complaints to put in a public toilet.
During all that time the attraction featured in all the tourism advertising the same council released to attract those visitors.
I'd have more sympathy for the "taxpayers and ratepayers" if they spent zero money causing the problem they don't want to clean up. Seriously, even for smaller councils how difficult is it to identify "brown spots" and bung in a portaloo?
Nash has a habit of being divisive, playing one group against another. He could give Police high tech gadgets to track people, but not put cameras on boats to monitor bycatch. Go figure.
I think you might have to explain as to how your second sentence supports your contention that Nash is divisive- which group is being played against which group in your example?
no, think you are being divisive. what the hell has cameras got to do with cheap tourists shitting in the waterways?grow up and stop attacking the messenger, read and THINK about the message
If they don’t prosecute tRump he'll travel the country holding divisive rallies to disrupt Biden’s presidency. His base will stick with him and he'll undermine incumbent Republicans who don’t actively spike Biden’s agenda.
Rudy's son was also at that press conference and he has just been diagnosed with Covid – was "Rudy's freakout flop sweat" also because he was ill with Covid?
If it was more recent than this, how about a linky with more information than just a statement from a Repug politician that has every incentive to be as deceptive as possible in order to sucker gullible idiots?
Funny, just looked at the link on my laptop and there is a lot less text than when I looked at it on my phone…. I had first seen this on ZeroHedge, but given the low regard it seems to be held in here I did a quick search and linked to a main stream media article (ABC)
Another article with more text that from memory is basically the same as I saw on the ABC27 article
Basics. Dominion had agreed to turn up to a meeting on Friday 20 Nov , to explain how their voting software was good, but pulled out at the last minute…
Did you ever ponder/wonder why ZeroHedge.com and readers of ZH are generally held in low regard here? Could it be that they are too lazy to do critical research, analysis, and thinking and they are all too happy to confirm their bias?
If you want to continue commenting here, I strongly suggest you lift your game. This is your warning – Incognito]
Looking for more info I googled dominion voting software hearing pennsylvania. The hits that came back are mostly from frankly nutso sites like The Epoch Times, Just The News, Rush Limbaugh and so on.
Just the appearance of the page your link goes to should raise big red flags, and sure 'nuff, USSA News is rated as another nutso source.
Meanwhile, a more-or-less rational look at the situation says:
A group of Republican lawmakers on Friday amplified a baseless conspiracy theory alleging a Venezuelan-backed effort to undermine the 2020 election by manipulating the software in one company’s voting machines to take votes from President Donald Trump.
Interim House State Government Committee Chairman Seth Grove called a press conference in the Ryan Office Building to chastise election system manufacturer Dominion Voting Systems for backing out of a public hearing scheduled for Friday.
Grove framed the company’s decision not to appear as an attempt to hide something, though the answers to many of the questions the Republicans claimed they needed from Dominion are already available on the Department of State’s website or are the purview of county elections officials.
So reading between the lines, it looks like Dominion worked out that this hearing wasn't going to be about factual information, but was a set-up for a nutso publicity stunt for rabid MAGAmorons to do something akin to an Oozy Giuliani performance.
He's a poor faith troll pretending to be someone he's not. Should be booted for deliberately spreading nonsense.
P.S. Pennsylvania now at that 80K lead I called early. But can't get an accurate figure of votes yet to count to see if it'll climb much. A friend had 100K. We got a six pack of cider riding on it, serious business indeed.
But he's a good example of how disinformation gets spread. So there's some merit in delving into the weeds and showing what kind of disinformation it really is. For lurkers that might be influenced, that is. Someone actually posting crap like that is likely too far gone to be turned around.
You just can't help yourself, can you? You just gotta be a misinformation spreader.
The uproar was about the Donnie Dotard maladministration's deliberate cruelty of family separations. Taking kids from their parents and not really much caring about keeping track of them. So the point of the kids in cages was that those kids had been forcibly separated from their families, in a policy of deliberate abusive cruelty.
The situation for the Obama administration was somewhat different. At that time, there were large numbers of unaccompanied kids turning up at the border.
Of the families that turned up, in a small number of cases it was assessed that kids were at risk of harm from their families and were separated for safety reasons, or because their parents were being prosecuted for serious crimes such as trafficking, with careful tracking to enable prompt reunification when it was safe to do so.
So some of the cages were indeed built by the Obama administration, for quite different reasons than the Spraytan Stalin put them to use for. Thereby creating the small nugget of truth that the best disinformation is built from.
Americans celebrate Thanksgiving in 5 days time. I wonder who Americans think they are supposed to be thanking and what they are thanking him, her, or they for? Perhaps this year, they can just take their pick and just find anything or anybody in their lives to thank and ignore the rest of reality.
In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared “A Day Of Thanksgiving” because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.
Cheered by their “victory”, the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.
Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of “thanksgiving” to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts — where it remained on display for 24 years.
Covid19 will be just fine when Don Jr becomes aware C19 is a similar category of parasitic organism as itself. I believe the lawyers call it 'professional courtesy'.
In related news, at latest count there are seven Repug senators hosting Covid19, while only five have so far given any indication of acknowledging Biden won.
I am confused, sorry but I am confused. We have farmers and horticuturists calling out for the government to let seasonal workers from off-shore in to help them with the primary production work in NZ . We have people losing their jobs all over New Zealand because of the tourist market collapse and whatever. We have had visa’s being extended for people on visitor visas and 1 yr working holiday visas since covid hit and now we have this : “ Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has announced migrant workers will be eligible for emergency benefits under strict conditions.”
If they were really looking for work they would have come and helped me on my little farm. As many small farms and blocks like mine I advertise for short term helpers on The Backpackerboard.com and typically young backpackers travelling NZ drop in and help for 2 – 6 weeks depending on their program and mine. It’s been near impossible to find helpers this year – the first time so in 25 yrs . I guess because they have mostly found longer term employment.
No, no benefit for non – New Zealanders. These people are not people willing to work. Spend the money instead on a chartered flight to wherever they have come from. Send them home. It will be cheaper in the long run.
@ Janet..how much an hour do you pay those who 'help' you..?..or are you working the woofr-vein..and getting that help largely for free..?..if the latter..cry me a river..eh..?
Aren't you just another entitled 'small' farmer? Why the fuck should they help you? What do you give them? Other than a few meals and a bed. How magnanimous.
They work in exchange for full free board, in a comfortable house. Their work is calculated at the going minimum wage rate per hr rate – The woofer association asks for 28 hrs a week in exchange and I ask for 25hrs. It is a win win situation, not as you both above suggest, some kind of rip-off, and my visitor’s book is a 100% testimony to that. They get the opportunity to engage 24/7 with real kiwis at home and on the land and learn and experience a lot as well as having a place to rest a while from the tedium of continuous travelling. I get to enjoy a less insular life and they help me get through the work of the moment. With covid the annual influx has not arrived and those who were allowed to stay longer have got more permanent jobs by now.
So..@$20 per hr ..they do $500 worth of work…but you take that $500 p.w. as food and board…there are 'win win'ers and 'win win'ers ..eh..?..the whole woofing thing is exploitation writ large..of travellers trying to stretch their dollar…in a very expensive country…
My visitors book tells a totally different story – its not about $,s and exploitation at all. Its about sharing and caring . Its about incredulous marvel , nurturing, patiently teaching and listening…… its about tears on leaving and staying in touch.
Well cry me a river. Lazy so and so's refuse to work for nothing aye. Need some gullible types who get to see the wonders of nature for the minimal fee of 25 hours labor.
They work in exchange for full free board, in a comfortable house. Their work is calculated at the going minimum wage rate per hr rate – The woofer association asks for 28 hrs a week in exchange and I ask for 25hrs.
Woofing is a work exchange situation, there are no wages involved. People work on organic farms in exchange for board and being taught skills.
It's a good scheme when it's done well, but it's not supposed to be comparable to waged work. It also operates with a degree of good will, so it's astounding to see a woofing host saying that non-residents should be sent home given woofing traditionally has been full of international travellers.
If farms depend on labour, then they should pay a decent rate to get employees who commit to work (woofing labour doesn't have this kind of commitment). If farms want to keep woofing as well, then they can make their situation attractive to Kiwis under covid border closures. I like the idea of farmers banding together to provide enough of a living for local workers, or those willing to travel for seasonal work.
In the farming sector the term WWOOFer has been generically used to describe a person who does work
in exchange for accommodation or board. However, legally these people are likely employees and must
be provided the protections afforded by New Zealand employment law.
This means these workers must be provided their minimum employment entitlements, such as at least
the minimum wage, holiday pay, payment of their wages in money and a written contract.
Under New Zealand employment law it is not the name of the scheme which is important, but the nature
of the relationship.
[…]
Can you pay a person with accommodation?
You cannot directly pay a person in accommodation only. Payment for work done must be in money.
The employer and employee are free to enter an accommodation arrangement and deduct from wages
the reasonable cost of the accommodation. Such agreements need to be in writing.
[…]
If they are doing this out of their own free will, why aren’t these people volunteers?
As ‘a person of any age employed by an employer to do any work for hire or reward under a contract
of service’, they fit the definition of an employee under the Employment Relations Act 2000.
The Labour Inspectorate believes that it is highly unlikely that any person working in an
accommodation facility and being rewarded with accommodation could be regarded as a genuine
volunteer.
In addition, of course, to international backpackers usually not being on work visas, IRD would be wanting PAYE, and ACC would be after their cut, as well.
Janet, whatever your visitor book says, I hope you're checking visas.
yeah, IRD have had a look too from memory. Thing is, woofing isn't supposed to be merely a work for board scheme. It's supposed to be a learning exchange, where people can work on organic properties and learn skills specific to organic farming/gardening. Obviously there are farmers who abuse that and simply use it as a form of cheap labour, but I think the original intent is sound. If the govt shut down the scheme I guess growers could charge for training people and then offset that with accommodation and food. I'd prefer if the sector sorted its shit out and the govt gave support for the original intent. Covid seems an ideal opportunity for both.
"The Labour Inspectorate believes that it is highly unlikely that any person working in an accommodation facility and being rewarded with accommodation could be regarded as a genuine
volunteer."
That's backpacker businesses straight up using international visitors as cheap labour. Sometimes not even woofing, it's pretty common for tourism to use work for board arrangements. I'd be happy for the govt to intervene in that.
"Labour Inspectorate has since communicated these findings to the industry, and expects accommodation providers who have been engaging in this practice to now meet their obligations as employers"
Curious now how this has been followed up given that was in 2018.
And whether they've looked at the large scale hiring of international vistitors in tourism/hospo (and I would guess hort) of people without employment agreements and where low wages and poor work conditions are normal because the workers are essentially on holiday and happy to work whatever hours in between doing their holiday things.
That shit means large numbers of jobs are simply not available for locals who need steady income and decent conditions to work around things like kids, school, paying rent/utilities and so on. My understanding is that the labour dept haven't been looking at that terribly closely (who wants to have a pop at tourism?) but I'd love to know.
It's an issue that crosses a lot of boundaries. The big one is immigration – a holiday or student visa essentially rules out any "learning exchange". I used to work with a lot of international students, ISTR the maximum hours they could work was 20/wk.
But a longer term apprenticeship scheme might work, but then that would have to be the declared reason someone enters the country.
Immigration periodically pings workplaces for hiring people without work visas, but that's difficult to detect if they're being paid under the table unless you actually raid the place in person and see who is on site.
My impression is that there are already avenues for farmers to do this legitimately. Apprenticeships, short term employment, whatevs.
The WWOOF website Janet linked to seems to directly contradict the government view about whether the "volunteers" are actually employees. Any website doing something like that tingles my spidey-sense that something not entirely kosher is going on. That's beside the entire "work without actual pay" thing. Janet's actual outgoings for 25hrs a week labour are the food the "volunteer" eats and some tv/internet time. No tax, no ACC, no other compliance costs that other farmers with employees pay.
The departments of inland revenue, labour, and immigration might be interested in participants in that deal.
But beside that, your "helpers"/employees are essentially people who do not need money. You pay them in kind. Migrant workers aren't here for the joy of traipsing around NZ on the cheap – they want money. Often to send back home to people in need.
If you only need 25hr/wk, maybe join up with some other small farmers to turn it full time? And knock a bit off the fee for room & board? At least these workers will have work visas, unlike many backpackers.
I used to see these woofers dropped off at the intercity bus every day.
There was a hug, and then the owner walked away and you could see the cold steely glint in their eye as they anticipated the next sucker coming along to do slave labour for next to nothing.
Sure it is an experience for a 21 year old German on their OE, it is not an option for a kiwi trying to survive in this country.
And many of those so called organic farms are dairy farms with a small (maybe) organic patch of veges and the workers are out there milking totally non-organic cows.
But this 'sharing and caring … incredulous marvel , nurturing, patiently teaching and listening' and 'tears on leaving and staying in touch.' becomes 'No, no benefit for non – New Zealanders. These people are not people willing to work.'.
The original intent has been long lost, this "scheme" is being used as justification in a number of ways that have no relationship to "organic farming" to get experience. While I was checking it out references to work as "night warden" to "receptionists" even one with "pilates" came up. While there may genuine use of it still it's clear it's being used to get free labour.
I think this is an ideal opportunity for younger folk and school leavers from the big smoke to experience their own backyard in a risk-free way. If I were younger, I’d want to do it myself! I assume to work at your little farm you have to be 18 years of age. I’m going to check out wwoof NZ; thank you for the link.
Yes , they have all left school and many are doing a "gap" year between leaving school and university. Most are under 30 and are travelling on NZ working holiday Visas. I do not take people with out visas. This year my grand-daughter took a gap year to travel to Europe to spend some time with her maternal family, but Covid struck. Instead she went woofing in NZ. Next year she starts university.
Had honestly never heard of woofering till today and this thread.
Looking at your link I can understand why people wouldn't mind doing that for a week or so, provided it is legit, and they are actually learning about nature.
Personally wouldn't as grew up just hanging out in the bush in the south island.
Would imagine there are some dodgy people offering it though. (Not you. As you seem to be honest)
You are bloody annoying. Let me put it in English for you, as McFlock has already done. Free means Free, given unconditionally. Your nonsense of 'free board given in exchange for labour' means that the board is NOT free if labour has to be given it exchange for it. Do you understand the English language?
'Woofering' would seem to me a good term for the semi-literate bullshit you have spouted.
The word 'free' has at least 42 different usages. Insisting that only one of them applies is a peculiar attempt at point scoring to say the least.
Most people enjoy woofing as part of the whole travel experience; they get to live and work in one place for a short period, which is often a lot more satisfying than just superficially travelling from place to place never really engaging with the local people.
They get to experience something they'd otherwise probably not access otherwise, and the farmer gets some labour in exchange. Woofing has been going on for yonks, although the internet has made it more popular and efficient in recent times. And there now are many variants of it in existence that have extended the concept much wider than just organic farming.
That some people here are keen to characterise it as rank exploitation is pretty typical of their sour view on life in general. They're the same people who rarely have a good word to say about anything much.
Well, look at the context of the conversation. I'm pretty sure the nautical terms don't apply to organic farming. Some of the political ones are also out – "not in slavery" seems to be a low bar. Similarly, I don't know what goes on at Janet's farm but any "licentious behaviour" would seem to be beside the point. So have a go at whittling those 42 down like a human who can parse everyday language.
Under-the-table transactions have been going on since Sumerian times. Many of them are fair enough between the parties concerned. But moaning that migrant workers stuck here shouldn't get the dole because they could work for "free" (sorry, "room and board") like backpackers is a joke.
That some people here are keen to characterise it as rank exploitation is pretty typical of their sour view on life in general. They're the same people who rarely have a good word to say about anything much.
Nice one RL. It's a rare person who never has a sour view, don't you think? Are those "some people here" by any chance the same people who "rarely have a good word to say about" your views on the value(s) of Capitalism and Marxism, the Black Lives Matter movement, whether the Covid-19 pandemic is "over", and the feasibility of certain hypothetical solutions to poverty, global warming, and ecological collapse?
For example, we disagree about the value of Dr Helen Caldicott's activism. You don't have a good word to say about her many (IMHO) positive contributions; indeed yours seems to be a rather sour view.
We do, however, agree on some things, e.g. that the way Assange is being treated is a perversion of justice. Sweet & sour sauce
The basic meaning of 'free' is an absolute, like 'unique'. Something is either free (or unique) or it is not. There is no corrupting 'rather free ' or 'quite free'.
Your 42 different usages are valid if they mean using the word as a verb (to liberate) for example, but Chris T was clearly using it in the sense of 'cost-free', and that is a straight absolute. I suspect that most of your so-called 42 usages are solecisms and barbarisms taken from some less than authoritative source.
This is basically an abuse of the English language by employers who call it ‘free’ board to make it sound better than it is. It is not free. The pay for their labour is simply ‘board plus money’.
Still doubting it's an upside down world…?..ardern announces a new river of corporate/housing welfare/money..nat spokesperson suggest some restrictions on that money to stop it further fuelling the housing bubble…and in the m.s.m. this morning all the usually tory pimps from industry etc come out against tory spokesperson…and fully in support of j.ardern and her promised river of corporate/housing welfare/money…(and if you pinch yourself…no you aren't dreaming/having a nightmare…this is the labour party ..in it's second term..doing this..)
why would someone bother to answer you. you can even understand the woofer setup , so expecting you to understand anything slightly complicated is foolish.
Could someone put up a link about the story at Newshub about the engineer who was on The Nation this morning about the concrete poured into a shaft at the Pike River Mine in 2011.
Former Prime Minister John Key has told National it needed to face facts and acknowledge the party’s own failings lost last month’s general election.
Speaking to a packed crowd at the Party’s annual meeting, in Wellington, he said: “We have to be honest enough to admit that our own failings played a part in our defeat.”
“I know it sounds hard, but it's true. If we don’t acknowledge that, if we don’t take responsibility for it, then we won’t learn from it,” Key said.
He urged the party to be more disciplined, and to stop leaking.
“If you can’t quit your leaking, here’s a clue, quit the party,” Key said.
Key was the special guest speaker at the meeting, and spoke alongside party president Peter Goodfellow and leader Judith Collins.
Goodfellow’s speech touched on the party’s failings – but focused heavily on some of the barriers he thought National faced from Labour and the media.
“Daily broadcasts became evangelistic – a form of gospel to the masses,” Goodfellow said, of the Government’s Covid-19 response.
“It was suddenly a crime for us to ask legitimate questions,” he said.
Well at least we will know what the agenda is, fish out all marine stocks completely (Goodfellow has been selling down his Sanford shares for years as he knows the time is near when they are all gone), and convert to dairy subsidised by a National government.
But yes, he seems to have lost the plot, so good for the left.
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Every day now just seems to bring in more fresh meat for the grinder.In their relentlessly ideological drive to cut back on the “excessive bloat” (as they see it) of the previous Labour-led government, on the mountains of evidence accumulated in such a short period of time do not ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Megan Valére SosouMarket gardening site of the Itchèléré de Itagui agricultural cooperative in Dassa-Zoumè (Image credit: Megan Valère Sossou) For the residents of Dassa-Zoumè, a city in the West African country of Benin, choosing between drinking water and having enough ...
Buzz from the Beehive Melissa Lee – as may be discerned from the screenshot above – has not been demoted for doing something seriously wrong as Minister of ...
Morning in London Mother hugs beloved daughter outside the converted shoe factory in which she is living.Afternoon in London Travelling writer takes himself and his wrist down to A&E, just to be sure. Read more ...
Mike Grimshaw writes – The recent announcement of the University Advisory Group, chaired by Sir Peter Gluckman, makes very clear where the Government’s focus and priorities lie. The remit of the Advisory Group is that Group members will consider challenges and opportunities for improvement in the university sector including: ...
Eric Crampton writes – The Reserve Bank of New Zealand desperately wants to find reasons to have workstreams in climate change. It makes little sense. They’ve run another stress test on the banks looking to see if they could find a prudential regulation case. They couldn’t. They ...
Rob MacCullough writes – Pundits from the left and the right are arguing that National’s Fast Track Bill that is designed to speed up infrastructure decisions could end up becoming mired in a cesspool of corruption. Political commentator ...
Looking at the headlines this morning it’s hard to feel anything other than pessimistic about the future of humanity.Note that I’m not speaking about the future of mankind, but the survival of our humanity. The values that we believe in seem to be ebbing away, by the day.Perhaps every generation ...
Swabbing mixed breed baby chicks to test for avian influenzaUh oh. Bird flu – often deadly to humans – is not only being transmitted from infected birds to dairy cows, but is now travelling between dairy cows. As of last Friday, Bloomberg News reports, there were 32 American dairy herds ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
What is it with the mining industry? Its not enough for them to pillage the earth - they apparently can't even be bothered getting resource consent to do so: The proponent behind a major mine near the Clutha River had already been undertaking activity in the area without a ...
Photo # 1 I am a huge fan of Singapore’s approach to housing, as described here two years ago by copying and pasting from The ConversationWhat Singapore has that Australia does not is a public housing developer, the Housing Development Board, which puts new dwellings on public and reclaimed land, ...
Buzz from the Beehive Reactions to news of the government’s readiness to make urgent changes to “the resource management system” through a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) suggest a balanced approach is being taken. The Taxpayers’ Union says the proposed changes don’t go far enough. Greenpeace says ...
I’m starting to wonder if Anna Burns-Francis might be the best political interviewer we’ve got. That might sound unlikely to you, it came as a bit of a surprise to me.Jack Tame can be excellent, but has some pretty average days. I like Rebecca Wright on Newshub, she asks good ...
Chris Trotter writes – Willie Jackson is said to be planning a “media summit” to discuss “the state of the media and how to protect Fourth Estate Journalism”. Not only does the Editor of The Daily Blog, Martyn Bradbury, think this is a good idea, but he has also ...
Graeme Edgeler writes – This morning [April 21], the Wellington High Court is hearing a judicial review brought by Hon. Karen Chhour, the Minister for Children, against a decision of the Waitangi Tribunal. This is unusual, judicial reviews are much more likely to brought against ministers, rather than ...
Both of Parliament’s watchdogs have now ripped into the Government’s Fast-track Approvals Bill. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāMy pick of the six newsey things to know from Aotearoa’s political economy and beyond on the morning of Tuesday, April 23 are:The Lead: The Auditor General,John Ryan, has joined the ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Sarah SpengemanPeople wait to board an electric bus in Pune, India. (Image credit: courtesy of ITDP) Public transportation riders in Pune, India, love the city’s new electric buses so much they will actually skip an older diesel bus that ...
The infrastructure industry yesterday issued a “hurry up” message to the Government, telling it to get cracking on developing a pipeline of infrastructure projects.The hiatus around the change of Government has seen some major projects cancelled and others delayed, and there is uncertainty about what will happen with the new ...
Hi,Over the weekend I revisited a podcast I really adore, Dead Eyes. It’s about a guy who got fired from Band of Brothers over two decades ago because Tom Hanks said he had “dead eyes”.If you don’t recall — 2001’s Band of Brothers was part of the emerging trend of ...
Buzz from the Beehive The 180 or so recipients of letters from the Government telling them how to submit infrastructure projects for “fast track” consideration includes some whose project applications previously have been rejected by the courts. News media were quick to feature these in their reports after RMA Reform Minister Chris ...
It would not be a desirable way to start your holiday by breaking your back, your head, or your wrist, but on our first hour in Singapore I gave it a try.We were chatting, last week, before we started a meeting of Hazel’s Enviro Trust, about the things that can ...
Calling all journalists, academics, planners, lawyers, political activists, environmentalists, and other members of the public who believe that the relationships between vested interests and politicians need to be scrutinised. We need to work together to make sure that the new Fast-Track Approvals Bill – currently being pushed through by the ...
Feel worried. Shane Jones and a couple of his Cabinet colleagues are about to be granted the power to override any and all objections to projects like dams, mines, roads etc even if: said projects will harm biodiversity, increase global warming and cause other environmental harms, and even if ...
Bryce Edwards writes- The ability of the private sector to quickly establish major new projects making use of the urban and natural environment is to be supercharged by the new National-led Government. Yesterday it introduced to Parliament one of its most significant reforms, the Fast Track Approvals Bill. ...
Michael Bassett writes – If you think there is a move afoot by the radical Maori fringe of New Zealand society to create a parallel system of government to the one that we elect at our triennial elections, you aren’t wrong. Over the last few days we have ...
Without a corresponding drop in interest rates, it’s doubtful any changes to the CCCFA will unleash a massive rush of home buyers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: The six things that stood out to me in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, poverty and climate on Monday, April 22 included:The Government making a ...
Sunday was a lazy day. I started watching Jack Tame on Q&A, the interviews are usually good for something to write about. Saying the things that the politicians won’t, but are quite possibly thinking. Things that are true and need to be extracted from between the lines.As you might know ...
In our Weekly Roundup last week we covered news from Auckland Transport that the WX1 Western Express is going to get an upgrade next year with double decker electric buses. As part of the announcement, AT also said “Since we introduced the WX1 Western Express last November we have seen ...
TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to April 29 include:PM Christopher Luxon is scheduled to hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4 pm today. Stats NZ releases its statutory report on Census 2023 tomorrow.Finance Minister Nicola Willis delivers a pre-Budget speech at ...
A listing of 29 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 14, 2024 thru Sat, April 20, 2024. Story of the week Our story of the week hinges on these words from the abstract of a fresh academic ...
The ability of the private sector to quickly establish major new projects making use of the urban and natural environment is to be supercharged by the new National-led Government. Yesterday it introduced to Parliament one of its most significant reforms, the Fast Track Approvals Bill. The Government says this will ...
This is a column to say thank you. So many of have been in touch since Mum died to say so many kind and thoughtful things. You’re wonderful, all of you. You’ve asked how we’re doing, how Dad’s doing. A little more realisation each day, of the irretrievable finality of ...
Identifying the engine type in your car is crucial for various reasons, including maintenance, repairs, and performance upgrades. Knowing the specific engine model allows you to access detailed technical information, locate compatible parts, and make informed decisions about modifications. This comprehensive guide will provide you with a step-by-step approach to ...
Introduction: The allure of racing is undeniable. The thrill of speed, the roar of engines, and the exhilaration of competition all contribute to the allure of this adrenaline-driven sport. For those who yearn to experience the pinnacle of racing, becoming a race car driver is the ultimate dream. However, the ...
Introduction Automobiles have become ubiquitous in modern society, serving as a primary mode of transportation and a symbol of economic growth and personal mobility. With countless vehicles traversing roads and highways worldwide, it begs the question: how many cars are there in the world? Determining the precise number is a ...
Maintaining a safe and reliable vehicle requires regular inspections. Whether it’s a routine maintenance checkup or a safety inspection, knowing how long the process will take can help you plan your day accordingly. This article delves into the factors that influence the duration of a car inspection and provides an ...
Mazda Motor Corporation, commonly known as Mazda, is a Japanese multinational automaker headquartered in Fuchu, Aki District, Hiroshima Prefecture, Japan. The company was founded in 1920 as the Toyo Cork Kogyo Co., Ltd., and began producing vehicles in 1931. Mazda is primarily known for its production of passenger cars, but ...
Your car battery is an essential component that provides power to start your engine, operate your electrical systems, and store energy. Over time, batteries can weaken and lose their ability to hold a charge, which can lead to starting problems, power failures, and other issues. Replacing your battery before it ...
In most states, you cannot register a car without a valid driver’s license. However, there are a few exceptions to this rule. Exceptions to the RuleIf you are under 18 years old: In some states, you can register a car in your name even if you do not ...
Mazda, a Japanese automotive manufacturer with a rich history of innovation and engineering excellence, has emerged as a formidable player in the global car market. Known for its reputation of producing high-quality, fuel-efficient, and driver-oriented vehicles, Mazda has consistently garnered praise from industry experts and consumers alike. In this article, ...
Struts are an essential part of a car’s suspension system. They are responsible for supporting the weight of the car and damping the oscillations of the springs. Struts are typically made of steel or aluminum and are filled with hydraulic fluid. How Do Struts Work? Struts work by transferring the ...
Car registration is a mandatory process that all vehicle owners must complete annually. This process involves registering your car with the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) and paying an associated fee. The registration process ensures that your vehicle is properly licensed and insured, and helps law enforcement and other authorities ...
Zoom is a video conferencing service that allows you to share your screen, webcam, and audio with other participants. In addition to sharing your own audio, you can also share the audio from your computer with other participants. This can be useful for playing music, sharing presentations with audio, or ...
Building your own computer can be a rewarding and cost-effective way to get a high-performance machine tailored to your specific needs. However, it also requires careful planning and execution, and one of the most important factors to consider is the time it will take. The exact time it takes to ...
Sleep mode is a power-saving state that allows your computer to quickly resume operation without having to boot up from scratch. This can be useful if you need to step away from your computer for a short period of time but don’t want to shut it down completely. There are ...
Introduction Computer-Assisted Translation (CAT) has revolutionized the field of translation by harnessing the power of technology to assist human translators in their work. This innovative approach combines specialized software with human expertise to improve the efficiency, accuracy, and consistency of translations. In this comprehensive article, we will delve into the ...
In today’s digital age, mobile devices have become an indispensable part of our daily lives. Among the vast array of portable computing options available, iPads and tablet computers stand out as two prominent contenders. While both offer similar functionalities, there are subtle yet significant differences between these two devices. This ...
A computer is an electronic device that can be programmed to carry out a set of instructions. The basic components of a computer are the processor, memory, storage, input devices, and output devices. The Processor The processor, also known as the central processing unit (CPU), is the brain of the ...
Voice Memos is a convenient app on your iPhone that allows you to quickly record and store audio snippets. These recordings can be useful for a variety of purposes, such as taking notes, capturing ideas, or recording interviews. While you can listen to your voice memos on your iPhone, you ...
Laptop screens are essential for interacting with our devices and accessing information. However, when lines appear on the screen, it can be frustrating and disrupt productivity. Understanding the underlying causes of these lines is crucial for finding effective solutions. Types of Screen Lines Horizontal lines: Also known as scan ...
Right-clicking is a common and essential computer operation that allows users to access additional options and settings. While most desktop computers have dedicated right-click buttons on their mice, laptops often do not have these buttons due to space limitations. This article will provide a comprehensive guide on how to right-click ...
Powering up and shutting down your ASUS laptop is an essential task for any laptop user. Locating the power button can sometimes be a hassle, especially if you’re new to ASUS laptops. This article will provide a comprehensive guide on where to find the power button on different ASUS laptop ...
Dell laptops are renowned for their reliability, performance, and versatility. Whether you’re a student, a professional, or just someone who needs a reliable computing device, a Dell laptop can meet your needs. However, if you’re new to Dell laptops, you may be wondering how to get started. In this comprehensive ...
Two-thirds of the country think that “New Zealand’s economy is rigged to advantage the rich and powerful”. They also believe that “New Zealand needs a strong leader to take the country back from the rich and powerful”. These are just two of a handful of stunning new survey results released ...
In today’s digital world, screenshots have become an indispensable tool for communication and documentation. Whether you need to capture an important email, preserve a website page, or share an error message, screenshots allow you to quickly and easily preserve digital information. If you’re an Asus laptop user, there are several ...
A factory reset restores your Gateway laptop to its original factory settings, erasing all data, apps, and personalizations. This can be necessary to resolve software issues, remove viruses, or prepare your laptop for sale or transfer. Here’s a step-by-step guide on how to factory reset your Gateway laptop: Method 1: ...
“You talking about me?”The neoliberal denigration of the past was nowhere more unrelenting than in its depiction of the public service. The Post Office and the Railways were held up as being both irremediably inefficient and scandalously over-manned. Playwright Roger Hall’s “Glide Time” caricatures were presented as accurate depictions of ...
Roger Partridge writes – When the Coalition Government took office last October, it inherited a country on a precipice. With persistent inflation, decades of insipid productivity growth and crises in healthcare, education, housing and law and order, it is no exaggeration to suggest New Zealand’s first-world status was ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – In 2022, the Curriculum Centre at the Ministry of Education employed 308 staff, according to an Official Information Request. Earlier this week it was announced 202 of those staff were being cut. When you look up “The New Zealand Curriculum” on the Ministry of ...
Chris Bishop’s bill has stirred up a hornets nest of opposition. Photo: Lynn Grieveson for The KākāTL;DR: The six things that stood out to me in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, poverty and climate from the last day included:A crescendo of opposition to the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill is ...
Monday left me brokenTuesday, I was through with hopingWednesday, my empty arms were openThursday, waiting for love, waiting for loveThe end of another week that left many of us asking WTF? What on earth has NZ gotten itself into and how on earth could people have voluntarily signed up for ...
Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.State of humanity, 20242024, it feels, keeps presenting us with ever more challenges, ever more dismay.Do you give up yet? It seems to ask.No? How about this? Or this?How about this?Full story Share ...
Determining the hardest sport in the world is a subjective matter, as the difficulty level can vary depending on individual abilities, physical attributes, and experience. However, based on various factors including physical demands, technical skills, mental fortitude, and overall accomplishment, here is an exploration of some of the most challenging ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
The Government’s newly announced review of methane emissions reduction targets hints at its desire to delay Aotearoa New Zealand’s urgent transition to a climate safe future, the Green Party said. ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra In the free-for-all between the Australian government and Big Tech boss Elon Musk this week, the government had to be on a winner. Most people would have little sympathy with Musk’s vociferous opposition to ...
Asia Pacific Report Chief Mandla Mandela, a member of the National Assembly of South Africa and Nelson Mandela’s grandson, has joined the Freedom Flotilla in istanbul as the ships prepare to sail for Gaza, reports Kia Ora Gaza. Mandela is also the ambassador for the Global Campaign to Return to ...
Pacific Media Watch Journalists who report on environmental issues are encountering growing difficulties in many parts of the world, reports Reporters Without Borders. According to the tally kept by RSF, 200 journalists have been subjected to threats and physical violence, including murder, in the past 10 years because they were ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards, Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in ...
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Tom O'Connor's article in todays's Dominion Post is worth a read. After all the defence of freedom campers (those who leave their mess behind) on this website it was good to read another point of view. Namely, amongst other comments, why should small councils with a small ratepayer base be put under huge financial strain paying for tourism infrastructure. As he says, let the tourism industry pay for what it needs. And by being more selective, we can avoid holiday destinations being inundated with more people than is manageable.
I have not forgotten being in Oxford, England, many years ago and hearing from the local townspeople that they hated the tourist season there. A smallish town where the locals avoided the town centre during that time as it was completely overwhelmed with visitors.
Its probably more to do with the fact Nash made the comments, the real lefties here hate him with a passion . In the past there have been plenty here decry the cheap tourists shitting their way around nz.
and for the last 8 month its been kiwis that have been shitting their way around NZ.
🙂
and as someone said yesterday, quite a few Kiwis – the homeless ones live in cars and vans absent of anything better.
But i guess its easier to blame tourists that used to spend up to 10 grand here during their 3 month stay. Cause Kiwis would never shit in the woods when they can't find a public toilet, no siree, they would never, they shit in a bucket and wait till they get home to empty it in the potty there.
Can you show me where Nash lumped homeless in with tourists, ?
That's not to say I'm ok with homelessness.
They should all go camp on parliament grounds so kind caring Ardern has to actually look at them .
The insidious link here is that by allowing backpackers to live out of vans for their 12 month stay in New Zealand we have normalised living out of vans and cars. Someone camped on the side of the road isn't seen as a vagrant or homeless anymore, rather a positive contribution to the economy.
Nice little spot of social engineering there.
Nice view/take on the homeless there..eh..?
No, it's not a take on the homeless specifically. It's a take on what we have allowed our tourism/economy/values to become.
Oh come on..!…this is what nz'ers do all over the world ..travel on the cheap..get a grip..!..eh..?.. What is the actual problem..?..(save for the need to build a lot more public toilets…with a shower option..could be outside/cold water..)..lack of infrastructure is the problem..end of story…this scapegoating is both tiresome and xenophobic..
He didn't..and that was a stellar example of his ignorance on that issue..rental vans are the middle of the market..as others have pointed out most long-term young visitors buy a vehicle on arrival and sell it when they go…in the main they don't rent over-priced vans..so nash is way off the mark..hence the ridicule heaped on him..and yes..a lot of those freedom camping/living in camp grounds/moving around are homeless new zealanders..and yes..it may well be time for some political direct action on that front…and a homeless camp on the grounds of parliament..or some other high profile public space could well be an idea/option whose time is nigh….let's see how that would play in the international media..
Now is the time for direct action because you know Arden wont have them dragged out buy te heals like the nats would
I think quite a bit hinges on what is said on the 25th in the speech from the throne..if that shows they are going to do s.f.a. about what they promised to do..I reckon it will be all on…there really is no other option…and I will go and stand with them..
Like the Nats would? You think? lol
I understand the locals of not so small Barcelona feel the same….dont imagine theres many 'freedom campers' there.
Pat accommodation is very reasonably priced in Barcelona a night in a cheap hotel with clean sheets only NZ$25 but homelessness is a problem their to.
Central government should give local councils that deal with high numbers of tourists a grant towards infrastructure….with some of this earmarked for much better public toilet facilities at potential freedom camping locations.
I've been out and about lately and there is a distinct downturn in camper vans. But why should we socialise the cost of overseas tourists where a lot of the money is simply YOYo money. Comes in rents a vehicle profits go overseas, wages to limited term visa holders etc. Is it an industry worth having?
But I wonder if Nash's high end comments are based on those tourist operators being the only ones still complaining. For just standard type accommodation in the North Island it really pays to book ahead because the bulk of them are pretty busy. I struck one provincial town with a reasonable amount of accommodation with the house full sign out on a weekday night in August. No events on.
Nash was stating reality. The only market sector that will be travelling long haul for the foreseeable will be the top end because of cost of fares and insurance. It's going to take a long time before the mass market feels comfortable about cattle class.
The backpacker / freedom camper market has been in decline for last five years, probably peaked 2015. Then Covid came along and pretty much destroyed it.
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown/backpacking-world-turned-upside-down
A large packpackers in Queenstown CBD sold this week and is going to be converted to high end accomodation.
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown/discovery-lodge-bought-investor
…which is why a number of Southland and Otago residents avoid Queenstown like the plaque.
Which is a tad bizzare because they are just as much visitors as someone from Auckland, Sydney or Los Angeles.
No 'tourists' in town but it took 2 hours to get through Frankton last night because of the marathon crowd blocking up all the roundabouts.
Tom O'Connor wrote in the article cited above, "……a bucket of cold reality to many in the tourism industry.
The minister is the first in a long time to heed the many calls from throughout the country for the industry to be reeled in and reset to be less harmful to the New Zealand environment and less costly to taxpayers and ratepayers.
The minister made it very clear that he was looking at innovative ways to ensure taxpayers and ratepayers will not continue to pay for tourism’s impact on infrastructure and the environment. He was also clear that he was not closing New Zealand to those tourists who were not wealthy, but they will not be the target market and that every tourist that comes to New Zealand will pay for the New Zealand experience."
O'Connor's third paragraph is one that needs to be read by people involved in this debate.
Firstly, who pays for the litter, the damage to the environment, the increased need for infrastructure? Taxpayer, rates payer or the industry? By extension, should the trucking industry pay only part of the damage caused by its usage of our roads?
Is all this all another example of 'privatise the profits an socialise the costs'?
Secondly, Nash did not argue to exclude 'back-packing' tourists, the non-wealthy.
O'Connor is a former journalist, historian and author and an elected District Councillor. His views would be a better starter for discussions than points of view which misrepresent what Nash said, for example.
too many instant experts here made fools of themselves by attacking the messenger . just because it was said by someone the experts hate, they go off on tangents.
Thanks, woodart. You have simplified the issue. It is one of dislike of a politician clouding the arguments.
John Key said something about staying in government in his speech to the National Party AGM. The comments were about taking and holding the centre. He was good at that- and held power for nine years.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300164537/sir-john-keys-speech-a-chilling-glimpse-into-the-future-for-national
The fear amongst some commentators showing on this blog is that Labour will abandon the left to keep the centre. Therefore anything resembling centrist policies will be reviled by some; and centrist Labour politicians will be attacked.
The thing is that Labour's policies and actions are different from Key's centralism, though I'm sure that will be hotly contested.
For politics is the art of the possible. Some of our political commentariat have to understand basic rules of politics. Advocates for change don't obtain that by faulty reasoning, blame and personality attacks.
It's one thing to keep one's ideology pure and not be able to apply it by never getting into power. It's better to be more aware of where the electorate sits on issues and by showing it that change can be managed acceptably by the use of political power in government, keep the centre and thereby the power to make changes.
Key also had another reason to keep the centre happy. National party politics is about keeping power, especially keeping it away from the hands of reformers and the socially minded. For Key , and National, it's about that- exercise power for the advantage of 'their people'.
John Key telegraphed his fear. That Labour by holding the centre would hold power for several elections. This why he never went as far right as some wished to push him. He understands that hope for change is not a strategy. He understands loyalty and solidarity, focus and discipline.
After him, National lost that and like the All Blacks under pressure, the weak and the under-prepared, the glory boys and the unsuitable, cracked and lost.
We may celebrate with popping corks that fact that Goodfellow has been re-elected to National's presidency, that they seem not to have learnt the lessons of electoral defeat- but eventually they'll get it.
"Trust me," said Key during that speech. Trust is what got Labour there- trust in Ardern and good ministers, trust in wise decisions and actions, trust in Labour's basic good will.
Meh.
I live near a local tourist attraction. Can't see the appeal in it myself, but there are fools wandering around the street every day. It took the council years of complaints to put in a public toilet.
During all that time the attraction featured in all the tourism advertising the same council released to attract those visitors.
I'd have more sympathy for the "taxpayers and ratepayers" if they spent zero money causing the problem they don't want to clean up. Seriously, even for smaller councils how difficult is it to identify "brown spots" and bung in a portaloo?
Nash has a habit of being divisive, playing one group against another. He could give Police high tech gadgets to track people, but not put cameras on boats to monitor bycatch. Go figure.
"Go figure", you say. I can't.
I think you might have to explain as to how your second sentence supports your contention that Nash is divisive- which group is being played against which group in your example?
Police/Public with no permission from Cabinet.. and Fishing Industry/Environmentalists Just IMO.
no, think you are being divisive. what the hell has cameras got to do with cheap tourists shitting in the waterways?grow up and stop attacking the messenger, read and THINK about the message
tick tock…
https://twitter.com/ejeancarroll/status/1329852436899655681
Let's take another moment to enjoy the deliciousness of Rudy's freakout flop sweat as he looks down the barrel of treason and sedition.
And another moment to enjoy the power of the Trumps disintegrating before our eyes.
There's only one way America's ever going to save face from all this, throw them all in jail for a long long time.
If they don’t prosecute tRump he'll travel the country holding divisive rallies to disrupt Biden’s presidency. His base will stick with him and he'll undermine incumbent Republicans who don’t actively spike Biden’s agenda.
Lock him up!
New York State district attorneys are looking at him right now 🙂
Rudy's son was also at that press conference and he has just been diagnosed with Covid – was "Rudy's freakout flop sweat" also because he was ill with Covid?
Speaking of disintegration;
Might need to slow down you plans….things just went a little off track in Pennsylvania.
"…..On the heels of Gov. Tom Wolf unilaterally decertifying every voting machine in the Commonwealth, "
When did this decertification happen?
Was it this one back in April 2018?
https://www.dos.pa.gov/VotingElections/Documents/Voting%20Systems/Directives/Directive%20to%20Vendors_2018_Apr%202%20Final.pdf
If it was more recent than this, how about a linky with more information than just a statement from a Repug politician that has every incentive to be as deceptive as possible in order to sucker gullible idiots?
Don't Know. Article did not state.
Funny, just looked at the link on my laptop and there is a lot less text than when I looked at it on my phone…. I had first seen this on ZeroHedge, but given the low regard it seems to be held in here I did a quick search and linked to a main stream media article (ABC)
Another article with more text that from memory is basically the same as I saw on the ABC27 article
Basics. Dominion had agreed to turn up to a meeting on Friday 20 Nov , to explain how their voting software was good, but pulled out at the last minute…
[You have made the same assertion twice under different Posts (https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-21-11-2020/#comment-1767486 and https://thestandard.org.nz/trumps-chances-of-winning-the-presidential-election-through-legal-action/#comment-1767434) and both times you were asked for evidence in the form of a link. If you are too lazy to verify the ‘facts’ that you’re spreading here or elsewhere, you run the risk of becoming a super spreader of mis- and/or dis-information, wittingly or unwittingly. However, ignorance is no excuse.
Did you ever ponder/wonder why ZeroHedge.com and readers of ZH are generally held in low regard here? Could it be that they are too lazy to do critical research, analysis, and thinking and they are all too happy to confirm their bias?
If you want to continue commenting here, I strongly suggest you lift your game. This is your warning – Incognito]
Looking for more info I googled dominion voting software hearing pennsylvania. The hits that came back are mostly from frankly nutso sites like The Epoch Times, Just The News, Rush Limbaugh and so on.
Just the appearance of the page your link goes to should raise big red flags, and sure 'nuff, USSA News is rated as another nutso source.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/ussa-news/
https://www.factcheck.org/2017/07/websites-post-fake-satirical-stories/
Meanwhile, a more-or-less rational look at the situation says:
So reading between the lines, it looks like Dominion worked out that this hearing wasn't going to be about factual information, but was a set-up for a nutso publicity stunt for rabid MAGAmorons to do something akin to an Oozy Giuliani performance.
He's a poor faith troll pretending to be someone he's not. Should be booted for deliberately spreading nonsense.
P.S. Pennsylvania now at that 80K lead I called early. But can't get an accurate figure of votes yet to count to see if it'll climb much. A friend had 100K. We got a six pack of cider riding on it, serious business indeed.
Indeed.
But he's a good example of how disinformation gets spread. So there's some merit in delving into the weeds and showing what kind of disinformation it really is. For lurkers that might be influenced, that is. Someone actually posting crap like that is likely too far gone to be turned around.
I assumed ABC was mainstream, between my memory and the tone of their other articles… my bad trusting ABC
It happens. sort of like the photos of the kids Trump was keeping in cages, that tuned out to be taken while Obama was president..
You just can't help yourself, can you? You just gotta be a misinformation spreader.
The uproar was about the Donnie Dotard maladministration's deliberate cruelty of family separations. Taking kids from their parents and not really much caring about keeping track of them. So the point of the kids in cages was that those kids had been forcibly separated from their families, in a policy of deliberate abusive cruelty.
The situation for the Obama administration was somewhat different. At that time, there were large numbers of unaccompanied kids turning up at the border.
Of the families that turned up, in a small number of cases it was assessed that kids were at risk of harm from their families and were separated for safety reasons, or because their parents were being prosecuted for serious crimes such as trafficking, with careful tracking to enable prompt reunification when it was safe to do so.
So some of the cages were indeed built by the Obama administration, for quite different reasons than the Spraytan Stalin put them to use for. Thereby creating the small nugget of truth that the best disinformation is built from.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/23/trump-falsely-says-obama-started-family-separation/1540733001/
See my Moderation note @ 5:59 PM.
Sorry about that. What i had in mind was the NZherald article
Different assertion, different link (required). Please keep up.
You changed the topic to cages. I hope this wasn’t a diversion attempt because it certainly gives off that vibe and comes across as doubling-down 🙁
Americans celebrate Thanksgiving in 5 days time. I wonder who Americans think they are supposed to be thanking and what they are thanking him, her, or they for? Perhaps this year, they can just take their pick and just find anything or anybody in their lives to thank and ignore the rest of reality.
Murder, mayhem, cruelty, genocide, and 400 years of white supremacy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGc34FeFqH0&feature=youtu.be
In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared “A Day Of Thanksgiving” because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.
Cheered by their “victory”, the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.
Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of “thanksgiving” to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts — where it remained on display for 24 years.
http://tlio.org.uk/1637-pequot-massacre-%E2%80%8Bthe-real-story-of-thanksgiving/
pffffffft … you want to do massacres, this is how they're done.
And these are just the ones that got written down in the historic record by someone.
"pffffffft" – what a puny massacre. All relative (and rather abstract), unless you're on the receiving end.
Of the 'top' 30 genocides listed here, 27 of them occurred in the last 120 years.
See also genocides, mass killings, and war crimes – not for the faint-hearted.
What if trump asks the Turkey for a pardon?
And will the Turkey give it?
The Turkey’s reply: Get Stuffed!!
Thankful that Trump lost the election.
Hmmm. I suppose we can all be thankful that institutionalised barbarism in the U.S. is not as bad today as it was four hundred years ago.
Was it ever figured out who leaked to Nicky Hager for the Hollow men?
Also Sir John doesn't like leaking.
Sadly Covid 19 has tested positive for Don Jr.
Best wishes and a speedy recovery to C19
Covid19 will be just fine when Don Jr becomes aware C19 is a similar category of parasitic organism as itself. I believe the lawyers call it 'professional courtesy'.
In related news, at latest count there are seven Repug senators hosting Covid19, while only five have so far given any indication of acknowledging Biden won.
The paternal reaction seems a little heartless …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5lsII0IlYk
I am confused, sorry but I am confused. We have farmers and horticuturists calling out for the government to let seasonal workers from off-shore in to help them with the primary production work in NZ . We have people losing their jobs all over New Zealand because of the tourist market collapse and whatever. We have had visa’s being extended for people on visitor visas and 1 yr working holiday visas since covid hit and now we have this : “ Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has announced migrant workers will be eligible for emergency benefits under strict conditions.”
If they were really looking for work they would have come and helped me on my little farm. As many small farms and blocks like mine I advertise for short term helpers on The Backpackerboard.com and typically young backpackers travelling NZ drop in and help for 2 – 6 weeks depending on their program and mine. It’s been near impossible to find helpers this year – the first time so in 25 yrs . I guess because they have mostly found longer term employment.
No, no benefit for non – New Zealanders. These people are not people willing to work. Spend the money instead on a chartered flight to wherever they have come from. Send them home. It will be cheaper in the long run.
@ Janet..how much an hour do you pay those who 'help' you..?..or are you working the woofr-vein..and getting that help largely for free..?..if the latter..cry me a river..eh..?
'helping'?
aka slavery
Aren't you just another entitled 'small' farmer? Why the fuck should they help you? What do you give them? Other than a few meals and a bed. How magnanimous.
Who do you 'help'?
They work in exchange for full free board, in a comfortable house. Their work is calculated at the going minimum wage rate per hr rate – The woofer association asks for 28 hrs a week in exchange and I ask for 25hrs. It is a win win situation, not as you both above suggest, some kind of rip-off, and my visitor’s book is a 100% testimony to that. They get the opportunity to engage 24/7 with real kiwis at home and on the land and learn and experience a lot as well as having a place to rest a while from the tedium of continuous travelling. I get to enjoy a less insular life and they help me get through the work of the moment. With covid the annual influx has not arrived and those who were allowed to stay longer have got more permanent jobs by now.
So..@$20 per hr ..they do $500 worth of work…but you take that $500 p.w. as food and board…there are 'win win'ers and 'win win'ers ..eh..?..the whole woofing thing is exploitation writ large..of travellers trying to stretch their dollar…in a very expensive country…
My visitors book tells a totally different story – its not about $,s and exploitation at all. Its about sharing and caring . Its about incredulous marvel , nurturing, patiently teaching and listening…… its about tears on leaving and staying in touch.
Well cry me a river. Lazy so and so's refuse to work for nothing aye. Need some gullible types who get to see the wonders of nature for the minimal fee of 25 hours labor.
You sound terribly hard done by.
So 20 dollars an hour is nothing now?
OK
Chris, it's plain you can't follow a thread but you could at least try to keep up.
“for full free board in a comfortable house.” In case your eyes, as I have long suspected, skip inconvenient bits.
I take it you are being stupid to just start an argument, but work out what "free board" means.
And get it doesn't mean they have to pay for it out of their wages.
It's not "free" if it's in exchange for work.
Forgive me if I want to see proof of this McFlock
Other than you denying what the word free means
Read the damned thread.
edit: damn replied to the wrong comment
Let me put it in english.
Someone gets free board, in exchange for the opportunity of working in a job that pays this much.
This seriously can't be that hard to get.
Free:
Was this meaning of the word unknown to you?
Woofing is a work exchange situation, there are no wages involved. People work on organic farms in exchange for board and being taught skills.
It's a good scheme when it's done well, but it's not supposed to be comparable to waged work. It also operates with a degree of good will, so it's astounding to see a woofing host saying that non-residents should be sent home given woofing traditionally has been full of international travellers.
If farms depend on labour, then they should pay a decent rate to get employees who commit to work (woofing labour doesn't have this kind of commitment). If farms want to keep woofing as well, then they can make their situation attractive to Kiwis under covid border closures. I like the idea of farmers banding together to provide enough of a living for local workers, or those willing to travel for seasonal work.
Re the Kiwi thing, woofing is supposed to be skills training, so there is actually quite a good opportunity there for both sides at this time.
Woofing.
Yet another way for entitled people to avoid paying workers.
WOOFing seems to be of some interest to the Department of Labour.
In addition, of course, to international backpackers usually not being on work visas, IRD would be wanting PAYE, and ACC would be after their cut, as well.
Janet, whatever your visitor book says, I hope you're checking visas.
yeah, IRD have had a look too from memory. Thing is, woofing isn't supposed to be merely a work for board scheme. It's supposed to be a learning exchange, where people can work on organic properties and learn skills specific to organic farming/gardening. Obviously there are farmers who abuse that and simply use it as a form of cheap labour, but I think the original intent is sound. If the govt shut down the scheme I guess growers could charge for training people and then offset that with accommodation and food. I'd prefer if the sector sorted its shit out and the govt gave support for the original intent. Covid seems an ideal opportunity for both.
"The Labour Inspectorate believes that it is highly unlikely that any person working in an accommodation facility and being rewarded with accommodation could be regarded as a genuine
volunteer."
That's backpacker businesses straight up using international visitors as cheap labour. Sometimes not even woofing, it's pretty common for tourism to use work for board arrangements. I'd be happy for the govt to intervene in that.
"Labour Inspectorate has since communicated these findings to the industry, and expects accommodation providers who have been engaging in this practice to now meet their obligations as employers"
Curious now how this has been followed up given that was in 2018.
And whether they've looked at the large scale hiring of international vistitors in tourism/hospo (and I would guess hort) of people without employment agreements and where low wages and poor work conditions are normal because the workers are essentially on holiday and happy to work whatever hours in between doing their holiday things.
That shit means large numbers of jobs are simply not available for locals who need steady income and decent conditions to work around things like kids, school, paying rent/utilities and so on. My understanding is that the labour dept haven't been looking at that terribly closely (who wants to have a pop at tourism?) but I'd love to know.
It's an issue that crosses a lot of boundaries. The big one is immigration – a holiday or student visa essentially rules out any "learning exchange". I used to work with a lot of international students, ISTR the maximum hours they could work was 20/wk.
But a longer term apprenticeship scheme might work, but then that would have to be the declared reason someone enters the country.
Immigration periodically pings workplaces for hiring people without work visas, but that's difficult to detect if they're being paid under the table unless you actually raid the place in person and see who is on site.
My impression is that there are already avenues for farmers to do this legitimately. Apprenticeships, short term employment, whatevs.
The WWOOF website Janet linked to seems to directly contradict the government view about whether the "volunteers" are actually employees. Any website doing something like that tingles my spidey-sense that something not entirely kosher is going on. That's beside the entire "work without actual pay" thing. Janet's actual outgoings for 25hrs a week labour are the food the "volunteer" eats and some tv/internet time. No tax, no ACC, no other compliance costs that other farmers with employees pay.
The departments of inland revenue, labour, and immigration might be interested in participants in that deal.
But beside that, your "helpers"/employees are essentially people who do not need money. You pay them in kind. Migrant workers aren't here for the joy of traipsing around NZ on the cheap – they want money. Often to send back home to people in need.
If you only need 25hr/wk, maybe join up with some other small farmers to turn it full time? And knock a bit off the fee for room & board? At least these workers will have work visas, unlike many backpackers.
I used to see these woofers dropped off at the intercity bus every day.
There was a hug, and then the owner walked away and you could see the cold steely glint in their eye as they anticipated the next sucker coming along to do slave labour for next to nothing.
Sure it is an experience for a 21 year old German on their OE, it is not an option for a kiwi trying to survive in this country.
And many of those so called organic farms are dairy farms with a small (maybe) organic patch of veges and the workers are out there milking totally non-organic cows.
But this 'sharing and caring … incredulous marvel , nurturing, patiently teaching and listening' and 'tears on leaving and staying in touch.' becomes 'No, no benefit for non – New Zealanders. These people are not people willing to work.'.
Why is that?
Can you post a link to where their pay is taken away in food and board please.
We wouldn't want people to think you are just talking shit and that?
Thanks
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-21-11-2020/?replytocom=1767550#respond
https://wwoof.nz/how-it-works/
The original intent has been long lost, this "scheme" is being used as justification in a number of ways that have no relationship to "organic farming" to get experience. While I was checking it out references to work as "night warden" to "receptionists" even one with "pilates" came up. While there may genuine use of it still it's clear it's being used to get free labour.
https://www.backpackerboard.co.nz/work_jobs/new_zealand_voluntary_work.php
I think this is an ideal opportunity for younger folk and school leavers from the big smoke to experience their own backyard in a risk-free way. If I were younger, I’d want to do it myself! I assume to work at your little farm you have to be 18 years of age. I’m going to check out wwoof NZ; thank you for the link.
Yes , they have all left school and many are doing a "gap" year between leaving school and university. Most are under 30 and are travelling on NZ working holiday Visas. I do not take people with out visas. This year my grand-daughter took a gap year to travel to Europe to spend some time with her maternal family, but Covid struck. Instead she went woofing in NZ. Next year she starts university.
While you are back Janet
Do you mind answering a question?
Is what you pay workers on top of free board, or in exchange for free board and they in essence don't get paid?
Cheers
Yes she did. She got to experience the SI for the first time in her life , and learnt to navigate her way around NZ alone.
As per the woofer site I posted.
Had honestly never heard of woofering till today and this thread.
Looking at your link I can understand why people wouldn't mind doing that for a week or so, provided it is legit, and they are actually learning about nature.
Personally wouldn't as grew up just hanging out in the bush in the south island.
Would imagine there are some dodgy people offering it though. (Not you. As you seem to be honest)
Cheers
Chris T
You are bloody annoying. Let me put it in English for you, as McFlock has already done. Free means Free, given unconditionally. Your nonsense of 'free board given in exchange for labour' means that the board is NOT free if labour has to be given it exchange for it. Do you understand the English language?
'Woofering' would seem to me a good term for the semi-literate bullshit you have spouted.
The word 'free' has at least 42 different usages. Insisting that only one of them applies is a peculiar attempt at point scoring to say the least.
Most people enjoy woofing as part of the whole travel experience; they get to live and work in one place for a short period, which is often a lot more satisfying than just superficially travelling from place to place never really engaging with the local people.
They get to experience something they'd otherwise probably not access otherwise, and the farmer gets some labour in exchange. Woofing has been going on for yonks, although the internet has made it more popular and efficient in recent times. And there now are many variants of it in existence that have extended the concept much wider than just organic farming.
That some people here are keen to characterise it as rank exploitation is pretty typical of their sour view on life in general. They're the same people who rarely have a good word to say about anything much.
Well, look at the context of the conversation. I'm pretty sure the nautical terms don't apply to organic farming. Some of the political ones are also out – "not in slavery" seems to be a low bar. Similarly, I don't know what goes on at Janet's farm but any "licentious behaviour" would seem to be beside the point. So have a go at whittling those 42 down like a human who can parse everyday language.
Under-the-table transactions have been going on since Sumerian times. Many of them are fair enough between the parties concerned. But moaning that migrant workers stuck here shouldn't get the dole because they could work for "free" (sorry, "room and board") like backpackers is a joke.
Nice one RL. It's a rare person who never has a sour view, don't you think? Are those "some people here" by any chance the same people who "rarely have a good word to say about" your views on the value(s) of Capitalism and Marxism, the Black Lives Matter movement, whether the Covid-19 pandemic is "over", and the feasibility of certain hypothetical solutions to poverty, global warming, and ecological collapse?
For example, we disagree about the value of Dr Helen Caldicott's activism. You don't have a good word to say about her many (IMHO) positive contributions; indeed yours seems to be a rather sour view.
We do, however, agree on some things, e.g. that the way Assange is being treated is a perversion of justice. Sweet & sour sauce
Redlogix.
The basic meaning of 'free' is an absolute, like 'unique'. Something is either free (or unique) or it is not. There is no corrupting 'rather free ' or 'quite free'.
Your 42 different usages are valid if they mean using the word as a verb (to liberate) for example, but Chris T was clearly using it in the sense of 'cost-free', and that is a straight absolute. I suspect that most of your so-called 42 usages are solecisms and barbarisms taken from some less than authoritative source.
This is basically an abuse of the English language by employers who call it ‘free’ board to make it sound better than it is. It is not free. The pay for their labour is simply ‘board plus money’.
Does your grand-daughter enjoy it?
Still doubting it's an upside down world…?..ardern announces a new river of corporate/housing welfare/money..nat spokesperson suggest some restrictions on that money to stop it further fuelling the housing bubble…and in the m.s.m. this morning all the usually tory pimps from industry etc come out against tory spokesperson…and fully in support of j.ardern and her promised river of corporate/housing welfare/money…(and if you pinch yourself…no you aren't dreaming/having a nightmare…this is the labour party ..in it's second term..doing this..)
What did they do for the first one?
Forgive me if I don't hold my breath, given they are good at words and crap at action,
why would someone bother to answer you. you can even understand the woofer setup , so expecting you to understand anything slightly complicated is foolish.
Could someone put up a link about the story at Newshub about the engineer who was on The Nation this morning about the concrete poured into a shaft at the Pike River Mine in 2011.
What was the purpose of doing that?
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/11/tonnes-of-concrete-poured-into-critically-important-pike-river-mine-air-feed-where-miners-could-have-gathered-engineer.html
Thank you.
I hope that this is investigated thoroughly.
Meanwhile Key says the bleed'in obvious
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300164333/nationals-own-failings-cost-it-the-election-says-john-key
Yet the Nats keep hapless Goodfellow in charge. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300164491/peter-goodfellow-to-remain-national-party-president
Snap!
Even now, the blue bubble remains sealed off from reality. Incredible.
They have their own reality
Priorities – the board chooses its chair after members vote for new/returning board members:
Well at least we will know what the agenda is, fish out all marine stocks completely (Goodfellow has been selling down his Sanford shares for years as he knows the time is near when they are all gone), and convert to dairy subsidised by a National government.
But yes, he seems to have lost the plot, so good for the left.
Paraphrasing the Party Guru with a strong message for the Party faithful:
“If you don’t like Dirty Politics, here’s a clue, quit the Dirty Party,” Key said.
Wise words and insights from the insider par excellence.
Stop the leaking, do as I did, have a Leader almost as popular as I was, a few tax cuts and BAU and you can beat Jacinda Ardern in 2023.
They are pretty stupid re-electing Goodfellow and have learned nothing! Act and Labour will do well next time.
National have re-elected Goodfellow as party president. So the lesson they have learned from electoral disaster is … nothing.
Champagne corks are popping at Labour HQ.