Tom O'Connor's article in todays's Dominion Post is worth a read. After all the defence of freedom campers (those who leave their mess behind) on this website it was good to read another point of view. Namely, amongst other comments, why should small councils with a small ratepayer base be put under huge financial strain paying for tourism infrastructure. As he says, let the tourism industry pay for what it needs. And by being more selective, we can avoid holiday destinations being inundated with more people than is manageable.
I have not forgotten being in Oxford, England, many years ago and hearing from the local townspeople that they hated the tourist season there. A smallish town where the locals avoided the town centre during that time as it was completely overwhelmed with visitors.
Its probably more to do with the fact Nash made the comments, the real lefties here hate him with a passion . In the past there have been plenty here decry the cheap tourists shitting their way around nz.
and for the last 8 month its been kiwis that have been shitting their way around NZ.
🙂
and as someone said yesterday, quite a few Kiwis – the homeless ones live in cars and vans absent of anything better.
But i guess its easier to blame tourists that used to spend up to 10 grand here during their 3 month stay. Cause Kiwis would never shit in the woods when they can't find a public toilet, no siree, they would never, they shit in a bucket and wait till they get home to empty it in the potty there.
The insidious link here is that by allowing backpackers to live out of vans for their 12 month stay in New Zealand we have normalised living out of vans and cars. Someone camped on the side of the road isn't seen as a vagrant or homeless anymore, rather a positive contribution to the economy.
Oh come on..!…this is what nz'ers do all over the world ..travel on the cheap..get a grip..!..eh..?.. What is the actual problem..?..(save for the need to build a lot more public toilets…with a shower option..could be outside/cold water..)..lack of infrastructure is the problem..end of story…this scapegoating is both tiresome and xenophobic..
He didn't..and that was a stellar example of his ignorance on that issue..rental vans are the middle of the market..as others have pointed out most long-term young visitors buy a vehicle on arrival and sell it when they go…in the main they don't rent over-priced vans..so nash is way off the mark..hence the ridicule heaped on him..and yes..a lot of those freedom camping/living in camp grounds/moving around are homeless new zealanders..and yes..it may well be time for some political direct action on that front…and a homeless camp on the grounds of parliament..or some other high profile public space could well be an idea/option whose time is nigh….let's see how that would play in the international media..
I think quite a bit hinges on what is said on the 25th in the speech from the throne..if that shows they are going to do s.f.a. about what they promised to do..I reckon it will be all on…there really is no other option…and I will go and stand with them..
Central government should give local councils that deal with high numbers of tourists a grant towards infrastructure….with some of this earmarked for much better public toilet facilities at potential freedom camping locations.
I've been out and about lately and there is a distinct downturn in camper vans. But why should we socialise the cost of overseas tourists where a lot of the money is simply YOYo money. Comes in rents a vehicle profits go overseas, wages to limited term visa holders etc. Is it an industry worth having?
But I wonder if Nash's high end comments are based on those tourist operators being the only ones still complaining. For just standard type accommodation in the North Island it really pays to book ahead because the bulk of them are pretty busy. I struck one provincial town with a reasonable amount of accommodation with the house full sign out on a weekday night in August. No events on.
Nash was stating reality. The only market sector that will be travelling long haul for the foreseeable will be the top end because of cost of fares and insurance. It's going to take a long time before the mass market feels comfortable about cattle class.
The backpacker / freedom camper market has been in decline for last five years, probably peaked 2015. Then Covid came along and pretty much destroyed it.
Tom O'Connor wrote in the article cited above, "……a bucket of cold reality to many in the tourism industry.
The minister is the first in a long time to heed the many calls from throughout the country for the industry to be reeled in and reset to be less harmful to the New Zealand environment and less costly to taxpayers and ratepayers.
The minister made it very clear that he was looking at innovative ways to ensure taxpayers and ratepayers will not continue to pay for tourism’s impact on infrastructure and the environment. He was also clear that he was not closing New Zealand to those tourists who were not wealthy, but they will not be the target market and that every tourist that comes to New Zealand will pay for the New Zealand experience."
O'Connor's third paragraph is one that needs to be read by people involved in this debate.
Firstly, who pays for the litter, the damage to the environment, the increased need for infrastructure? Taxpayer, rates payer or the industry? By extension, should the trucking industry pay only part of the damage caused by its usage of our roads?
Is all this all another example of 'privatise the profits an socialise the costs'?
Secondly, Nash did not argue to exclude 'back-packing' tourists, the non-wealthy.
O'Connor is a former journalist, historian and author and an elected District Councillor. His views would be a better starter for discussions than points of view which misrepresent what Nash said, for example.
too many instant experts here made fools of themselves by attacking the messenger . just because it was said by someone the experts hate, they go off on tangents.
Thanks, woodart. You have simplified the issue. It is one of dislike of a politician clouding the arguments.
John Key said something about staying in government in his speech to the National Party AGM. The comments were about taking and holding the centre. He was good at that- and held power for nine years.
The fear amongst some commentators showing on this blog is that Labour will abandon the left to keep the centre. Therefore anything resembling centrist policies will be reviled by some; and centrist Labour politicians will be attacked.
The thing is that Labour's policies and actions are different from Key's centralism, though I'm sure that will be hotly contested.
For politics is the art of the possible. Some of our political commentariat have to understand basic rules of politics. Advocates for change don't obtain that by faulty reasoning, blame and personality attacks.
It's one thing to keep one's ideology pure and not be able to apply it by never getting into power. It's better to be more aware of where the electorate sits on issues and by showing it that change can be managed acceptably by the use of political power in government, keep the centre and thereby the power to make changes.
Key also had another reason to keep the centre happy. National party politics is about keeping power, especially keeping it away from the hands of reformers and the socially minded. For Key , and National, it's about that- exercise power for the advantage of 'their people'.
John Key telegraphed his fear. That Labour by holding the centre would hold power for several elections. This why he never went as far right as some wished to push him. He understands that hope for change is not a strategy. He understands loyalty and solidarity, focus and discipline.
After him, National lost that and like the All Blacks under pressure, the weak and the under-prepared, the glory boys and the unsuitable, cracked and lost.
We may celebrate with popping corks that fact that Goodfellow has been re-elected to National's presidency, that they seem not to have learnt the lessons of electoral defeat- but eventually they'll get it.
"Trust me," said Key during that speech. Trust is what got Labour there- trust in Ardern and good ministers, trust in wise decisions and actions, trust in Labour's basic good will.
Meh.
I live near a local tourist attraction. Can't see the appeal in it myself, but there are fools wandering around the street every day. It took the council years of complaints to put in a public toilet.
During all that time the attraction featured in all the tourism advertising the same council released to attract those visitors.
I'd have more sympathy for the "taxpayers and ratepayers" if they spent zero money causing the problem they don't want to clean up. Seriously, even for smaller councils how difficult is it to identify "brown spots" and bung in a portaloo?
Nash has a habit of being divisive, playing one group against another. He could give Police high tech gadgets to track people, but not put cameras on boats to monitor bycatch. Go figure.
I think you might have to explain as to how your second sentence supports your contention that Nash is divisive- which group is being played against which group in your example?
no, think you are being divisive. what the hell has cameras got to do with cheap tourists shitting in the waterways?grow up and stop attacking the messenger, read and THINK about the message
If they don’t prosecute tRump he'll travel the country holding divisive rallies to disrupt Biden’s presidency. His base will stick with him and he'll undermine incumbent Republicans who don’t actively spike Biden’s agenda.
Rudy's son was also at that press conference and he has just been diagnosed with Covid – was "Rudy's freakout flop sweat" also because he was ill with Covid?
If it was more recent than this, how about a linky with more information than just a statement from a Repug politician that has every incentive to be as deceptive as possible in order to sucker gullible idiots?
Funny, just looked at the link on my laptop and there is a lot less text than when I looked at it on my phone…. I had first seen this on ZeroHedge, but given the low regard it seems to be held in here I did a quick search and linked to a main stream media article (ABC)
Another article with more text that from memory is basically the same as I saw on the ABC27 article
Basics. Dominion had agreed to turn up to a meeting on Friday 20 Nov , to explain how their voting software was good, but pulled out at the last minute…
Did you ever ponder/wonder why ZeroHedge.com and readers of ZH are generally held in low regard here? Could it be that they are too lazy to do critical research, analysis, and thinking and they are all too happy to confirm their bias?
If you want to continue commenting here, I strongly suggest you lift your game. This is your warning – Incognito]
Looking for more info I googled dominion voting software hearing pennsylvania. The hits that came back are mostly from frankly nutso sites like The Epoch Times, Just The News, Rush Limbaugh and so on.
Just the appearance of the page your link goes to should raise big red flags, and sure 'nuff, USSA News is rated as another nutso source.
Meanwhile, a more-or-less rational look at the situation says:
A group of Republican lawmakers on Friday amplified a baseless conspiracy theory alleging a Venezuelan-backed effort to undermine the 2020 election by manipulating the software in one company’s voting machines to take votes from President Donald Trump.
Interim House State Government Committee Chairman Seth Grove called a press conference in the Ryan Office Building to chastise election system manufacturer Dominion Voting Systems for backing out of a public hearing scheduled for Friday.
Grove framed the company’s decision not to appear as an attempt to hide something, though the answers to many of the questions the Republicans claimed they needed from Dominion are already available on the Department of State’s website or are the purview of county elections officials.
So reading between the lines, it looks like Dominion worked out that this hearing wasn't going to be about factual information, but was a set-up for a nutso publicity stunt for rabid MAGAmorons to do something akin to an Oozy Giuliani performance.
He's a poor faith troll pretending to be someone he's not. Should be booted for deliberately spreading nonsense.
P.S. Pennsylvania now at that 80K lead I called early. But can't get an accurate figure of votes yet to count to see if it'll climb much. A friend had 100K. We got a six pack of cider riding on it, serious business indeed.
But he's a good example of how disinformation gets spread. So there's some merit in delving into the weeds and showing what kind of disinformation it really is. For lurkers that might be influenced, that is. Someone actually posting crap like that is likely too far gone to be turned around.
You just can't help yourself, can you? You just gotta be a misinformation spreader.
The uproar was about the Donnie Dotard maladministration's deliberate cruelty of family separations. Taking kids from their parents and not really much caring about keeping track of them. So the point of the kids in cages was that those kids had been forcibly separated from their families, in a policy of deliberate abusive cruelty.
The situation for the Obama administration was somewhat different. At that time, there were large numbers of unaccompanied kids turning up at the border.
Of the families that turned up, in a small number of cases it was assessed that kids were at risk of harm from their families and were separated for safety reasons, or because their parents were being prosecuted for serious crimes such as trafficking, with careful tracking to enable prompt reunification when it was safe to do so.
So some of the cages were indeed built by the Obama administration, for quite different reasons than the Spraytan Stalin put them to use for. Thereby creating the small nugget of truth that the best disinformation is built from.
Americans celebrate Thanksgiving in 5 days time. I wonder who Americans think they are supposed to be thanking and what they are thanking him, her, or they for? Perhaps this year, they can just take their pick and just find anything or anybody in their lives to thank and ignore the rest of reality.
In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared “A Day Of Thanksgiving” because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.
Cheered by their “victory”, the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.
Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of “thanksgiving” to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts — where it remained on display for 24 years.
Covid19 will be just fine when Don Jr becomes aware C19 is a similar category of parasitic organism as itself. I believe the lawyers call it 'professional courtesy'.
In related news, at latest count there are seven Repug senators hosting Covid19, while only five have so far given any indication of acknowledging Biden won.
I am confused, sorry but I am confused. We have farmers and horticuturists calling out for the government to let seasonal workers from off-shore in to help them with the primary production work in NZ . We have people losing their jobs all over New Zealand because of the tourist market collapse and whatever. We have had visa’s being extended for people on visitor visas and 1 yr working holiday visas since covid hit and now we have this : “ Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has announced migrant workers will be eligible for emergency benefits under strict conditions.”
If they were really looking for work they would have come and helped me on my little farm. As many small farms and blocks like mine I advertise for short term helpers on The Backpackerboard.com and typically young backpackers travelling NZ drop in and help for 2 – 6 weeks depending on their program and mine. It’s been near impossible to find helpers this year – the first time so in 25 yrs . I guess because they have mostly found longer term employment.
No, no benefit for non – New Zealanders. These people are not people willing to work. Spend the money instead on a chartered flight to wherever they have come from. Send them home. It will be cheaper in the long run.
@ Janet..how much an hour do you pay those who 'help' you..?..or are you working the woofr-vein..and getting that help largely for free..?..if the latter..cry me a river..eh..?
Aren't you just another entitled 'small' farmer? Why the fuck should they help you? What do you give them? Other than a few meals and a bed. How magnanimous.
They work in exchange for full free board, in a comfortable house. Their work is calculated at the going minimum wage rate per hr rate – The woofer association asks for 28 hrs a week in exchange and I ask for 25hrs. It is a win win situation, not as you both above suggest, some kind of rip-off, and my visitor’s book is a 100% testimony to that. They get the opportunity to engage 24/7 with real kiwis at home and on the land and learn and experience a lot as well as having a place to rest a while from the tedium of continuous travelling. I get to enjoy a less insular life and they help me get through the work of the moment. With covid the annual influx has not arrived and those who were allowed to stay longer have got more permanent jobs by now.
So..@$20 per hr ..they do $500 worth of work…but you take that $500 p.w. as food and board…there are 'win win'ers and 'win win'ers ..eh..?..the whole woofing thing is exploitation writ large..of travellers trying to stretch their dollar…in a very expensive country…
My visitors book tells a totally different story – its not about $,s and exploitation at all. Its about sharing and caring . Its about incredulous marvel , nurturing, patiently teaching and listening…… its about tears on leaving and staying in touch.
Well cry me a river. Lazy so and so's refuse to work for nothing aye. Need some gullible types who get to see the wonders of nature for the minimal fee of 25 hours labor.
They work in exchange for full free board, in a comfortable house. Their work is calculated at the going minimum wage rate per hr rate – The woofer association asks for 28 hrs a week in exchange and I ask for 25hrs.
Woofing is a work exchange situation, there are no wages involved. People work on organic farms in exchange for board and being taught skills.
It's a good scheme when it's done well, but it's not supposed to be comparable to waged work. It also operates with a degree of good will, so it's astounding to see a woofing host saying that non-residents should be sent home given woofing traditionally has been full of international travellers.
If farms depend on labour, then they should pay a decent rate to get employees who commit to work (woofing labour doesn't have this kind of commitment). If farms want to keep woofing as well, then they can make their situation attractive to Kiwis under covid border closures. I like the idea of farmers banding together to provide enough of a living for local workers, or those willing to travel for seasonal work.
In the farming sector the term WWOOFer has been generically used to describe a person who does work
in exchange for accommodation or board. However, legally these people are likely employees and must
be provided the protections afforded by New Zealand employment law.
This means these workers must be provided their minimum employment entitlements, such as at least
the minimum wage, holiday pay, payment of their wages in money and a written contract.
Under New Zealand employment law it is not the name of the scheme which is important, but the nature
of the relationship.
[…]
Can you pay a person with accommodation?
You cannot directly pay a person in accommodation only. Payment for work done must be in money.
The employer and employee are free to enter an accommodation arrangement and deduct from wages
the reasonable cost of the accommodation. Such agreements need to be in writing.
[…]
If they are doing this out of their own free will, why aren’t these people volunteers?
As ‘a person of any age employed by an employer to do any work for hire or reward under a contract
of service’, they fit the definition of an employee under the Employment Relations Act 2000.
The Labour Inspectorate believes that it is highly unlikely that any person working in an
accommodation facility and being rewarded with accommodation could be regarded as a genuine
volunteer.
In addition, of course, to international backpackers usually not being on work visas, IRD would be wanting PAYE, and ACC would be after their cut, as well.
Janet, whatever your visitor book says, I hope you're checking visas.
yeah, IRD have had a look too from memory. Thing is, woofing isn't supposed to be merely a work for board scheme. It's supposed to be a learning exchange, where people can work on organic properties and learn skills specific to organic farming/gardening. Obviously there are farmers who abuse that and simply use it as a form of cheap labour, but I think the original intent is sound. If the govt shut down the scheme I guess growers could charge for training people and then offset that with accommodation and food. I'd prefer if the sector sorted its shit out and the govt gave support for the original intent. Covid seems an ideal opportunity for both.
"The Labour Inspectorate believes that it is highly unlikely that any person working in an accommodation facility and being rewarded with accommodation could be regarded as a genuine
volunteer."
That's backpacker businesses straight up using international visitors as cheap labour. Sometimes not even woofing, it's pretty common for tourism to use work for board arrangements. I'd be happy for the govt to intervene in that.
"Labour Inspectorate has since communicated these findings to the industry, and expects accommodation providers who have been engaging in this practice to now meet their obligations as employers"
Curious now how this has been followed up given that was in 2018.
And whether they've looked at the large scale hiring of international vistitors in tourism/hospo (and I would guess hort) of people without employment agreements and where low wages and poor work conditions are normal because the workers are essentially on holiday and happy to work whatever hours in between doing their holiday things.
That shit means large numbers of jobs are simply not available for locals who need steady income and decent conditions to work around things like kids, school, paying rent/utilities and so on. My understanding is that the labour dept haven't been looking at that terribly closely (who wants to have a pop at tourism?) but I'd love to know.
It's an issue that crosses a lot of boundaries. The big one is immigration – a holiday or student visa essentially rules out any "learning exchange". I used to work with a lot of international students, ISTR the maximum hours they could work was 20/wk.
But a longer term apprenticeship scheme might work, but then that would have to be the declared reason someone enters the country.
Immigration periodically pings workplaces for hiring people without work visas, but that's difficult to detect if they're being paid under the table unless you actually raid the place in person and see who is on site.
My impression is that there are already avenues for farmers to do this legitimately. Apprenticeships, short term employment, whatevs.
The WWOOF website Janet linked to seems to directly contradict the government view about whether the "volunteers" are actually employees. Any website doing something like that tingles my spidey-sense that something not entirely kosher is going on. That's beside the entire "work without actual pay" thing. Janet's actual outgoings for 25hrs a week labour are the food the "volunteer" eats and some tv/internet time. No tax, no ACC, no other compliance costs that other farmers with employees pay.
The departments of inland revenue, labour, and immigration might be interested in participants in that deal.
But beside that, your "helpers"/employees are essentially people who do not need money. You pay them in kind. Migrant workers aren't here for the joy of traipsing around NZ on the cheap – they want money. Often to send back home to people in need.
If you only need 25hr/wk, maybe join up with some other small farmers to turn it full time? And knock a bit off the fee for room & board? At least these workers will have work visas, unlike many backpackers.
I used to see these woofers dropped off at the intercity bus every day.
There was a hug, and then the owner walked away and you could see the cold steely glint in their eye as they anticipated the next sucker coming along to do slave labour for next to nothing.
Sure it is an experience for a 21 year old German on their OE, it is not an option for a kiwi trying to survive in this country.
And many of those so called organic farms are dairy farms with a small (maybe) organic patch of veges and the workers are out there milking totally non-organic cows.
But this 'sharing and caring … incredulous marvel , nurturing, patiently teaching and listening' and 'tears on leaving and staying in touch.' becomes 'No, no benefit for non – New Zealanders. These people are not people willing to work.'.
The original intent has been long lost, this "scheme" is being used as justification in a number of ways that have no relationship to "organic farming" to get experience. While I was checking it out references to work as "night warden" to "receptionists" even one with "pilates" came up. While there may genuine use of it still it's clear it's being used to get free labour.
I think this is an ideal opportunity for younger folk and school leavers from the big smoke to experience their own backyard in a risk-free way. If I were younger, I’d want to do it myself! I assume to work at your little farm you have to be 18 years of age. I’m going to check out wwoof NZ; thank you for the link.
Yes , they have all left school and many are doing a "gap" year between leaving school and university. Most are under 30 and are travelling on NZ working holiday Visas. I do not take people with out visas. This year my grand-daughter took a gap year to travel to Europe to spend some time with her maternal family, but Covid struck. Instead she went woofing in NZ. Next year she starts university.
Had honestly never heard of woofering till today and this thread.
Looking at your link I can understand why people wouldn't mind doing that for a week or so, provided it is legit, and they are actually learning about nature.
Personally wouldn't as grew up just hanging out in the bush in the south island.
Would imagine there are some dodgy people offering it though. (Not you. As you seem to be honest)
You are bloody annoying. Let me put it in English for you, as McFlock has already done. Free means Free, given unconditionally. Your nonsense of 'free board given in exchange for labour' means that the board is NOT free if labour has to be given it exchange for it. Do you understand the English language?
'Woofering' would seem to me a good term for the semi-literate bullshit you have spouted.
The word 'free' has at least 42 different usages. Insisting that only one of them applies is a peculiar attempt at point scoring to say the least.
Most people enjoy woofing as part of the whole travel experience; they get to live and work in one place for a short period, which is often a lot more satisfying than just superficially travelling from place to place never really engaging with the local people.
They get to experience something they'd otherwise probably not access otherwise, and the farmer gets some labour in exchange. Woofing has been going on for yonks, although the internet has made it more popular and efficient in recent times. And there now are many variants of it in existence that have extended the concept much wider than just organic farming.
That some people here are keen to characterise it as rank exploitation is pretty typical of their sour view on life in general. They're the same people who rarely have a good word to say about anything much.
Well, look at the context of the conversation. I'm pretty sure the nautical terms don't apply to organic farming. Some of the political ones are also out – "not in slavery" seems to be a low bar. Similarly, I don't know what goes on at Janet's farm but any "licentious behaviour" would seem to be beside the point. So have a go at whittling those 42 down like a human who can parse everyday language.
Under-the-table transactions have been going on since Sumerian times. Many of them are fair enough between the parties concerned. But moaning that migrant workers stuck here shouldn't get the dole because they could work for "free" (sorry, "room and board") like backpackers is a joke.
That some people here are keen to characterise it as rank exploitation is pretty typical of their sour view on life in general. They're the same people who rarely have a good word to say about anything much.
Nice one RL. It's a rare person who never has a sour view, don't you think? Are those "some people here" by any chance the same people who "rarely have a good word to say about" your views on the value(s) of Capitalism and Marxism, the Black Lives Matter movement, whether the Covid-19 pandemic is "over", and the feasibility of certain hypothetical solutions to poverty, global warming, and ecological collapse?
For example, we disagree about the value of Dr Helen Caldicott's activism. You don't have a good word to say about her many (IMHO) positive contributions; indeed yours seems to be a rather sour view.
We do, however, agree on some things, e.g. that the way Assange is being treated is a perversion of justice. Sweet & sour sauce
The basic meaning of 'free' is an absolute, like 'unique'. Something is either free (or unique) or it is not. There is no corrupting 'rather free ' or 'quite free'.
Your 42 different usages are valid if they mean using the word as a verb (to liberate) for example, but Chris T was clearly using it in the sense of 'cost-free', and that is a straight absolute. I suspect that most of your so-called 42 usages are solecisms and barbarisms taken from some less than authoritative source.
This is basically an abuse of the English language by employers who call it ‘free’ board to make it sound better than it is. It is not free. The pay for their labour is simply ‘board plus money’.
Still doubting it's an upside down world…?..ardern announces a new river of corporate/housing welfare/money..nat spokesperson suggest some restrictions on that money to stop it further fuelling the housing bubble…and in the m.s.m. this morning all the usually tory pimps from industry etc come out against tory spokesperson…and fully in support of j.ardern and her promised river of corporate/housing welfare/money…(and if you pinch yourself…no you aren't dreaming/having a nightmare…this is the labour party ..in it's second term..doing this..)
why would someone bother to answer you. you can even understand the woofer setup , so expecting you to understand anything slightly complicated is foolish.
Could someone put up a link about the story at Newshub about the engineer who was on The Nation this morning about the concrete poured into a shaft at the Pike River Mine in 2011.
Former Prime Minister John Key has told National it needed to face facts and acknowledge the party’s own failings lost last month’s general election.
Speaking to a packed crowd at the Party’s annual meeting, in Wellington, he said: “We have to be honest enough to admit that our own failings played a part in our defeat.”
“I know it sounds hard, but it's true. If we don’t acknowledge that, if we don’t take responsibility for it, then we won’t learn from it,” Key said.
He urged the party to be more disciplined, and to stop leaking.
“If you can’t quit your leaking, here’s a clue, quit the party,” Key said.
Key was the special guest speaker at the meeting, and spoke alongside party president Peter Goodfellow and leader Judith Collins.
Goodfellow’s speech touched on the party’s failings – but focused heavily on some of the barriers he thought National faced from Labour and the media.
“Daily broadcasts became evangelistic – a form of gospel to the masses,” Goodfellow said, of the Government’s Covid-19 response.
“It was suddenly a crime for us to ask legitimate questions,” he said.
Well at least we will know what the agenda is, fish out all marine stocks completely (Goodfellow has been selling down his Sanford shares for years as he knows the time is near when they are all gone), and convert to dairy subsidised by a National government.
But yes, he seems to have lost the plot, so good for the left.
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The pungent smell of gasoline in your car can be an alarming and potentially dangerous problem. Not only is the odor unpleasant, but it can also indicate a serious issue with your vehicle’s fuel system. In this article, we will explore the various reasons why your car may smell like ...
Tree sap can be a sticky, unsightly mess on your car’s exterior. It can be difficult to remove, but with the right techniques and products, you can restore your car to its former glory. Understanding Tree Sap Tree sap is a thick, viscous liquid produced by trees to seal wounds ...
The amount of paint needed to paint a car depends on a number of factors, including the size of the car, the number of coats you plan to apply, and the type of paint you are using. In general, you will need between 1 and 2 gallons of paint for ...
Jump-starting a car is a common task that can be performed even in adverse weather conditions like rain. However, safety precautions and proper techniques are crucial to avoid potential hazards. This comprehensive guide will provide detailed instructions on how to safely jump a car in the rain, ensuring both your ...
Graham Adams writes about the $55m media fund — When Patrick Gower was asked by Mike Hosking last week what he would say to the many Newstalk ZB callers who allege the Labour government bribed media with $55 million of taxpayers’ money via the Public Interest Journalism Fund — and ...
Note: this blog post has been put together over the course of the week I followed the happenings at the conference virtually. Should recordings of the Great Debates and possibly Union Symposia mentioned below, be released sometime after the conference ends, I'll include links to the ones I participated in. ...
The following was my submission made on the “Fast Track Approvals Bill”. This potential law will give three Ministers unchecked powers, un-paralled since the days of Robert Muldoon’s “Think Big” projects.The submission is written a bit tongue-in-cheek. But it’s irreverent because the FTAB is in itself not worthy of respect. ...
One Could Reduce Child Poverty At No Fiscal CostFollowing the Richardson/Shipley 1990 ‘redesign of the welfare state’ – which eliminated the universal Family Benefit and doubled the rate of child poverty – various income supplements for families have been added, the best known being ‘Working for Families’, introduced in 2005. ...
Buzz from the Beehive A few days ago, Point of Order suggested the media must be musing “on why Melissa is mute”. Our article reported that people working in the beleaguered media industry have cause to yearn for a minister as busy as Melissa Lee’s ministerial colleagues and we drew ...
1. What was The Curse of Jim Bolger?a. Winston Peters b. Soon after shaking his hand, world leaders would mysteriously lose office or shuffle off this mortal coilc. Could never shake off the Mother of All Budgetsd. Dandruff2. True or false? The Chairman of a Kiwi export business has asked the ...
Jack Vowles writes – New Zealand is said to be suffering from ‘serious populist discontent’. An IPSOS MORI survey has reported that we have an increasing preference for strong leaders, think that the economy is rigged toward the rich and powerful, and political elites are ignoring ‘hard-working people’. ...
Chris Trotter writes – MELISSA LEE should be deprived of her ministerial warrant. Her handling – or non-handling – of the crisis engulfing the New Zealand news media has been woeful. The fate of New Zealand’s two linear television networks, a question which the Minister of Broadcasting, Communications ...
TL;DR: The podcast above features co-hosts and , along with regular guests Robert Patman on Gaza and AUKUS II, and on climate change.The six things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the ...
Policymakers rarely wish to make plain or visible their desire to dismantle environmental policy, least of all to the young. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above between Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent ...
I like to keep an eye on what’s happening in places like the UK, the US, and over the ditch with our good mates the Aussies. Let’s call them AUKUS, for want of a better collective term. More on that in a bit.It used to be, not long ago, that ...
TL;DR: The global economy will be one fifth smaller than it would have otherwise been in 2050 as a result of climate damage, according to a new study by the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK) and published in the journal Nature. (See more detail and analysis below, and ...
New Zealand is said to be suffering from ‘serious populist discontent’. An IPSOS MORI survey has reported that we have an increasing preference for strong leaders, think that the economy is rigged toward the rich and powerful, and political elites are ignoring ‘hard-working people’. The data is from February this ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters is understood to be planning a major speech within the next fortnight to clear up the confusion over whether or not New Zealand might join the AUKUS submarine project. So far, there have been conflicting signals from the Government. RNZ reported the Prime Minister yesterday in ...
Life throws curveballs, and sometimes, those curveballs necessitate wiping your iPhone clean and starting anew. Whether you’re facing persistent software glitches, preparing to sell your device, or simply wanting a fresh start, knowing how to factory reset iPhone without a computer is a valuable skill. While using a computer with ...
Gone are the days when communication was limited to landline phones and physical proximity. Today, computers have become powerful tools for connecting with people across the globe through voice and video calls. But with a plethora of applications and methods available, how to call someone on a computer might seem ...
Open access notables Glacial isostatic adjustment reduces past and future Arctic subsea permafrost, Creel et al., Nature Communications:Sea-level rise submerges terrestrial permafrost in the Arctic, turning it into subsea permafrost. Subsea permafrost underlies ~ 1.8 million km2 of Arctic continental shelf, with thicknesses in places exceeding 700 m. Sea-level variations over glacial-interglacial cycles control ...
The operating system (OS) is the heart and soul of a computer, orchestrating every action and interaction between hardware and software. But have you ever wondered where on a computer is the operating system generally stored? The answer lies in the intricate dance between hardware and software components, particularly within ...
Laptops have become essential tools for work, entertainment, and communication, offering portability and functionality. However, with rising energy costs and growing environmental concerns, understanding a laptop’s power consumption is more important than ever. So, how many watts does a laptop use? The answer, unfortunately, isn’t straightforward. It depends on several ...
Screen recording has become an essential tool for various purposes, such as creating tutorials, capturing gameplay footage, recording online meetings, or sharing information with others. Fortunately, Dell laptops offer several built-in and external options for screen recording, catering to different needs and preferences. This guide will explore various methods on ...
A cracked or damaged laptop screen can be a frustrating experience, impacting productivity and enjoyment. Fortunately, laptop screen repair is a common service offered by various repair shops and technicians. However, the cost of fixing a laptop screen can vary significantly depending on several factors. This article delves into the ...
Gaming laptops represent a significant investment for passionate gamers, offering portability and powerful performance for immersive gaming experiences. However, a common concern among potential buyers is their lifespan. Unlike desktop PCs, which allow for easier component upgrades, gaming laptops have inherent limitations due to their compact and integrated design. This ...
The annual inventory report of New Zealand's greenhouse gas emissions has been released, showing that gross emissions have dropped for the third year in a row, to 78.4 million tons: All-told gross emissions have decreased by over 6 million tons since the Zero Carbon Act was passed in 2019. ...
Experiencing a locked computer can be frustrating, especially when you need access to your files and applications urgently. The methods to unlock your computer will vary depending on the specific situation and the type of lock you encounter. This guide will explore various scenarios and provide step-by-step instructions on how ...
While the world has largely transitioned to digital communication, faxing still holds relevance in certain industries and situations. Fortunately, gone are the days of bulky fax machines and dedicated phone lines. Today, you can easily send and receive faxes directly from your computer, offering a convenient and efficient way to ...
In our increasingly digital world, home computers have become essential tools for work, communication, entertainment, and more. However, this increased reliance on technology also exposes us to various cyber threats. Understanding these threats and taking proactive steps to protect your home computer is crucial for safeguarding your personal information, finances, ...
In the ever-evolving world of technology, server-based computing has emerged as a cornerstone of modern digital infrastructure. This article delves into the concept of server-based computing, exploring its various forms, benefits, challenges, and its impact on the way we work and interact with technology. Understanding Server-Based Computing: At its core, ...
The absolute brass neck of this guy.We want more medical doctors, not more spin doctors, Luxon was saying a couple of weeks ago, and now we’re told the guy has seven salaried adults on TikTok duty. Sorry, doing social media. The absolute brass neck of it. The irony that the ...
Buzz from the Beehive Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones relishes spatting and eagerly takes issue with environmentalists who criticise his enthusiasm for resource development. He relishes helping the fishing industry too. And so today, while the media are making much of the latest culling in the public service to ...
Having written, taught and worked for the US government on issues involving unconventional warfare and terrorism for 30-odd years, two things irritate me the most when the subject is discussed in public. The first is the Johnny-come-lately academics-turned-media commentators who … Continue reading → ...
Eric Crampton writes – Kainga Ora is the government’s house building agency. It’s been building a lot of social housing. Kainga Ora has its own (but independent) consenting authority, Consentium. It’s a neat idea. Rather than have to deal with building consents across each different territorial authority, Kainga Ora ...
Muriel Newman writes – The Coalition Government says it is moving with speed to deliver campaign promises and reverse the damage done by Labour. One of their key commitments is to “defend the principle that New Zealanders are equal before the law.” To achieve this, they have pledged they “will not advance ...
Chris Trotter writes – The absence of anything resembling a fightback from the public servants currently losing their jobs is interesting. State-sector workers’ collective fatalism in the face of Coalition cutbacks indicates a surprisingly broad acceptance of impermanence in the workplace. Fifty years ago, lay-offs in the thousands ...
Mariupol, on the Azov Sea coast, was one of the first cities to suffer almost complete destruction after the start of the Ukraine War started in late February 2022. We remember the scenes of absolute destruction of the houses and city structures. The deaths of innocent civilians – many of ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – Ten years ago, I wrote the following in a Listener column: Every year around one in five new-born babies will be reliant on their caregivers benefit by Christmas. This pattern has persisted from at least 1993. For Maori the number jumps to over one in three. ...
Climate change is expected to generate more and more extreme events, delivering a sort of structural shock to inflation that central banks will have to react to as if they were short-term cyclical issues. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāMy pick of the six newsey things to know from Aotearoa’s ...
It’s a simple deal. We pay taxes in order to finance the social services we want and need. The carnage now occurring across the public sector though, is breaking that contract. Over 3,000 jobs have been lost so far. Many are in crucial areas like Education where the impact of ...
Hi,A friend had their 40th over the weekend and decided to theme it after Curb Your Enthusiasm fashion icon Susie Greene. Captured in my tiny kitchen before I left the house, I ending up evoking a mix of old lesbian and Hillary Clinton — both unintentional.Me vs Hillary ClintonIf you’re ...
This is a re-post from Andrew Dessler at the Climate Brink blogIn 2023, the Earth reached temperature levels unprecedented in modern times. Given that, it’s reasonable to ask: What’s going on? There’s been lots of discussions by scientists about whether this is just the normal progression of global warming or if something ...
The schools are on holiday and the sun is shining in the seaside village and all day long I have been seeing bunches of bikes; Mums, Dads, teens and toddlers chattering, laughing, happy, having a bloody great time together. Cheers, AT, for the bits of lane you’ve added lately around the ...
Today in our National-led authoritarian nightmare: Shane Jones thinks Ministers should be above the law: New Zealand First MP Shane Jones is accusing the Waitangi Tribunal of over-stepping its mandate by subpoenaing a minister for its urgent hearing on the Oranga Tamariki claim. The tribunal is looking into the ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Politicians across the political spectrum are implicated in the New Zealand media’s failing health. Either through neglect or incompetent interventions, successive governments have failed to regulate, foster, and allow a healthy Fourth Estate that can adequately hold politicians and the powerful to account. ...
Citizen Science writes – Last week saw two significant developments in the debate over the treatment of trans-identifying children and young people – the release in Britain of the final report of Dr Hilary Cass’s review into gender healthcare, and here in New Zealand, the news that the ...
One night while sleeping in my bed I had a beautiful dreamThat all the people of the world got together on the same wavelengthAnd began helping one anotherNow in this dream, universal love was the theme of the dayPeace and understanding and it happened this wayAfter such an eventful day ...
This is a guest post by Oscar Simms who is a housing activist, volunteer for the Coalition for More Homes, and was the Labour Party candidate for Auckland Central at the last election. ...
Turning what Labour called the “holiday highway” into a four-lane expressway from Auckland to Whangarei could bring at least an economic benefit of nearly two billion a year for Northland each year. And it could help bring an end to poverty in one of New Zealand’s most deprived regions. The ...
Tonight’s six-stack includes: launching his substack with a bunch of his previous documentaries, including this 1992 interview with Dame Whina Cooper. and here crew give climate activists plenty to do, including this call to submit against the Fast Track Approvals bill. writes brilliantly here on his substack ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
You're in the mall when you hear it: some kind of popping sound in the distance, kids with fireworks, maybe. But then a moment of eerie stillness is followed by more of the fireworks sound and there’s also screaming and shrieking and now here come people running for their lives.Does ...
Karl du Fresne writes – There’s a crisis in the news media and the media are blaming it on everyone except themselves. Culpability is being deflected elsewhere – mainly to the hapless Minister of Communications, Melissa Lee, and the big social media platforms that are accused of hoovering ...
I don’t normally send out two newsletters in a day but I figured I’d say something about… the news. If two newsletters is a bit much then maybe just skip one, I don’t want to overload people. Alternatively if you’d be interested in sometimes receiving multiple, smaller updates from me, ...
Buzz from the Beehive David Seymour and Winston Peters today signalled that at least two ministers of the Crown might be in Wellington today. Seymour (as Associate Minister of Education) announced the removal of more red tape, this time to make it easier for new early learning services to be ...
Politicians across the political spectrum are implicated in the New Zealand media’s failing health. Either through neglect or incompetent interventions, successive governments have failed to regulate, foster, and allow a healthy Fourth Estate that can adequately hold politicians and the powerful to account. Our political system is suffering from the ...
David Farrar writes – The Broadcasting Standards Authority ruled: Comments by radio host Kate Hawkesby suggesting Māori and Pacific patients were being prioritised for surgery due to their ethnicity were misleading and discriminatory, the Broadcasting Standards Authority has found. It is a fact such patients are prioritised. ...
PRC and its proxies in Solomons have been preparing for these elections for a long time.A lot of money, effort and intelligence have gone into ensuring an outcome that won’t compromise Beijing’s plans. Cleo Paskall writes – On April 17th the Solomon Islands, a country of ...
Is speeding up the trip to and from Wellington airport by 12 minutes worth spending up more than $10 billion? Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The six news items that stood out to me in the last day to 8:26 am today are:The Lead: Transport Minister Simeon Brownannounced ...
You're a fraud, and you know itBut it's too good to throw it all awayAnyone would do the sameYou've got 'em goingAnd you're careful not to show itSometimes you even fool yourself a bitIt's like magicBut it's always been a smoke and mirrors gameAnyone would do the sameForty six billion ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
The Government’s newly announced review of methane emissions reduction targets hints at its desire to delay Aotearoa New Zealand’s urgent transition to a climate safe future, the Green Party said. ...
The Government must commit to the Maitai School building project for students with high and complex needs, to ensure disabled students from the top of the South Island have somewhere to learn. ...
Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey and his Government colleagues have made a meal of their mental health commitments, showing how flimsy their efforts to champion the issue truly are, says Labour Mental Health spokesperson Ingrid Leary. ...
Māori are yet to see anything from this Government except cuts, reversals and taking our people backwards, Māori Development spokesperson Willie Jackson said. ...
The Coalition Government’s refusal to commit to ongoing funding for social housing is seeing the sector pull back on developments and families watch their dreams of securing a home fade away, says Labour Housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty. ...
Changes to minimum wage and benefit indexation means many New Zealanders will get less this year, as the Government gives a big tax break to landlords instead. ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner. The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom. “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel. “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says. "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board. “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti. “I have asked her to ...
The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States. “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced further New Zealand cooperation with the United States in the Pacific Islands region through $16.4 million in funding for initiatives in digital connectivity and oceans and fisheries research. “New Zealand can achieve more in the Pacific if we work together more urgently and ...
Zoë Colling’s favourite piece in the ‘That’s So Last Century’ collection is a lubrication chart for a sewing machine from the ’60s. It’s about the size of a postcard, and carefully maintained. “I like it that this piece of ephemera highlights that manual and technical side of the skill involved ...
Kia Ora Gaza A passionate haka reverberated through Auckland International Airport as a medical team of three New Zealand doctors received an emotional farewell from a big crowd of supporters before flying to Turkey to join the international Freedom Flotilla to Gaza. The doctors, who left Auckland yesterday, hope to ...
With submissions closing today, Macassey-Pickard says groups around the country have been supporting a huge range of people to make their submissions. ...
Our response to the new legislation is informed by targeted conversations with practitioners working in the system and through an implementation lens. ...
The new ‘Fast-track Approvals Bill’ would give just three Ministers the power to approve or deny development projects. They would avoid the usual checks and balances that are in place to protect rivers, land, the ocean, and communities. ...
COMMENTARY:By Eugene Doyle Helen Clark, how I miss you. The former New Zealand Prime Minister — the safest pair of hands this country has had in living memory — gave a masterclass on the importance of maintaining an independent foreign policy when she spoke at an AUKUS symposium held ...
The government's released the list of organisations provided with information on how to apply - just hours before public submissions on the bill close. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Milton Speer, Visiting Fellow, School of Mathematical and Physical Sciences, University of Technology Sydney Before climate change really got going, eastern Australia’s flash floods tended to concentrate on our coastal regions, east of the Great Dividing Range. But that’s changing. Now ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Elizabeth Finkel, Vice-Chancellor’s Fellow, La Trobe University Sia Duff / South Australian Museum In February, the South Australian Museum “re-imagined” itself. In the face of rising costs and inadequate government funds, CEO David Gaimster, who took the reins last June, declared ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alan Pearce, Professor, School of Allied Heath, Human Services & Sport, La Trobe University, La Trobe University This week, Collingwood AFL player Nathan Murphy announced his retirement, brought on by his concussion history and ongoing issues. The 24-year-old’s seemingly sudden retirement, ...
The Mental Health Foundation provides support and resources for those facing the loss of their job, so it’s wrong in the very week the Government adds another 1000 jobs to its tally of cuts, that this is happening. ...
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Tom O'Connor's article in todays's Dominion Post is worth a read. After all the defence of freedom campers (those who leave their mess behind) on this website it was good to read another point of view. Namely, amongst other comments, why should small councils with a small ratepayer base be put under huge financial strain paying for tourism infrastructure. As he says, let the tourism industry pay for what it needs. And by being more selective, we can avoid holiday destinations being inundated with more people than is manageable.
I have not forgotten being in Oxford, England, many years ago and hearing from the local townspeople that they hated the tourist season there. A smallish town where the locals avoided the town centre during that time as it was completely overwhelmed with visitors.
Its probably more to do with the fact Nash made the comments, the real lefties here hate him with a passion . In the past there have been plenty here decry the cheap tourists shitting their way around nz.
and for the last 8 month its been kiwis that have been shitting their way around NZ.
🙂
and as someone said yesterday, quite a few Kiwis – the homeless ones live in cars and vans absent of anything better.
But i guess its easier to blame tourists that used to spend up to 10 grand here during their 3 month stay. Cause Kiwis would never shit in the woods when they can't find a public toilet, no siree, they would never, they shit in a bucket and wait till they get home to empty it in the potty there.
Can you show me where Nash lumped homeless in with tourists, ?
That's not to say I'm ok with homelessness.
They should all go camp on parliament grounds so kind caring Ardern has to actually look at them .
The insidious link here is that by allowing backpackers to live out of vans for their 12 month stay in New Zealand we have normalised living out of vans and cars. Someone camped on the side of the road isn't seen as a vagrant or homeless anymore, rather a positive contribution to the economy.
Nice little spot of social engineering there.
Nice view/take on the homeless there..eh..?
No, it's not a take on the homeless specifically. It's a take on what we have allowed our tourism/economy/values to become.
Oh come on..!…this is what nz'ers do all over the world ..travel on the cheap..get a grip..!..eh..?.. What is the actual problem..?..(save for the need to build a lot more public toilets…with a shower option..could be outside/cold water..)..lack of infrastructure is the problem..end of story…this scapegoating is both tiresome and xenophobic..
He didn't..and that was a stellar example of his ignorance on that issue..rental vans are the middle of the market..as others have pointed out most long-term young visitors buy a vehicle on arrival and sell it when they go…in the main they don't rent over-priced vans..so nash is way off the mark..hence the ridicule heaped on him..and yes..a lot of those freedom camping/living in camp grounds/moving around are homeless new zealanders..and yes..it may well be time for some political direct action on that front…and a homeless camp on the grounds of parliament..or some other high profile public space could well be an idea/option whose time is nigh….let's see how that would play in the international media..
Now is the time for direct action because you know Arden wont have them dragged out buy te heals like the nats would
I think quite a bit hinges on what is said on the 25th in the speech from the throne..if that shows they are going to do s.f.a. about what they promised to do..I reckon it will be all on…there really is no other option…and I will go and stand with them..
Like the Nats would? You think? lol
I understand the locals of not so small Barcelona feel the same….dont imagine theres many 'freedom campers' there.
Pat accommodation is very reasonably priced in Barcelona a night in a cheap hotel with clean sheets only NZ$25 but homelessness is a problem their to.
Central government should give local councils that deal with high numbers of tourists a grant towards infrastructure….with some of this earmarked for much better public toilet facilities at potential freedom camping locations.
I've been out and about lately and there is a distinct downturn in camper vans. But why should we socialise the cost of overseas tourists where a lot of the money is simply YOYo money. Comes in rents a vehicle profits go overseas, wages to limited term visa holders etc. Is it an industry worth having?
But I wonder if Nash's high end comments are based on those tourist operators being the only ones still complaining. For just standard type accommodation in the North Island it really pays to book ahead because the bulk of them are pretty busy. I struck one provincial town with a reasonable amount of accommodation with the house full sign out on a weekday night in August. No events on.
Nash was stating reality. The only market sector that will be travelling long haul for the foreseeable will be the top end because of cost of fares and insurance. It's going to take a long time before the mass market feels comfortable about cattle class.
The backpacker / freedom camper market has been in decline for last five years, probably peaked 2015. Then Covid came along and pretty much destroyed it.
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown/backpacking-world-turned-upside-down
A large packpackers in Queenstown CBD sold this week and is going to be converted to high end accomodation.
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown/discovery-lodge-bought-investor
…which is why a number of Southland and Otago residents avoid Queenstown like the plaque.
Which is a tad bizzare because they are just as much visitors as someone from Auckland, Sydney or Los Angeles.
No 'tourists' in town but it took 2 hours to get through Frankton last night because of the marathon crowd blocking up all the roundabouts.
Tom O'Connor wrote in the article cited above, "……a bucket of cold reality to many in the tourism industry.
The minister is the first in a long time to heed the many calls from throughout the country for the industry to be reeled in and reset to be less harmful to the New Zealand environment and less costly to taxpayers and ratepayers.
The minister made it very clear that he was looking at innovative ways to ensure taxpayers and ratepayers will not continue to pay for tourism’s impact on infrastructure and the environment. He was also clear that he was not closing New Zealand to those tourists who were not wealthy, but they will not be the target market and that every tourist that comes to New Zealand will pay for the New Zealand experience."
O'Connor's third paragraph is one that needs to be read by people involved in this debate.
Firstly, who pays for the litter, the damage to the environment, the increased need for infrastructure? Taxpayer, rates payer or the industry? By extension, should the trucking industry pay only part of the damage caused by its usage of our roads?
Is all this all another example of 'privatise the profits an socialise the costs'?
Secondly, Nash did not argue to exclude 'back-packing' tourists, the non-wealthy.
O'Connor is a former journalist, historian and author and an elected District Councillor. His views would be a better starter for discussions than points of view which misrepresent what Nash said, for example.
too many instant experts here made fools of themselves by attacking the messenger . just because it was said by someone the experts hate, they go off on tangents.
Thanks, woodart. You have simplified the issue. It is one of dislike of a politician clouding the arguments.
John Key said something about staying in government in his speech to the National Party AGM. The comments were about taking and holding the centre. He was good at that- and held power for nine years.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300164537/sir-john-keys-speech-a-chilling-glimpse-into-the-future-for-national
The fear amongst some commentators showing on this blog is that Labour will abandon the left to keep the centre. Therefore anything resembling centrist policies will be reviled by some; and centrist Labour politicians will be attacked.
The thing is that Labour's policies and actions are different from Key's centralism, though I'm sure that will be hotly contested.
For politics is the art of the possible. Some of our political commentariat have to understand basic rules of politics. Advocates for change don't obtain that by faulty reasoning, blame and personality attacks.
It's one thing to keep one's ideology pure and not be able to apply it by never getting into power. It's better to be more aware of where the electorate sits on issues and by showing it that change can be managed acceptably by the use of political power in government, keep the centre and thereby the power to make changes.
Key also had another reason to keep the centre happy. National party politics is about keeping power, especially keeping it away from the hands of reformers and the socially minded. For Key , and National, it's about that- exercise power for the advantage of 'their people'.
John Key telegraphed his fear. That Labour by holding the centre would hold power for several elections. This why he never went as far right as some wished to push him. He understands that hope for change is not a strategy. He understands loyalty and solidarity, focus and discipline.
After him, National lost that and like the All Blacks under pressure, the weak and the under-prepared, the glory boys and the unsuitable, cracked and lost.
We may celebrate with popping corks that fact that Goodfellow has been re-elected to National's presidency, that they seem not to have learnt the lessons of electoral defeat- but eventually they'll get it.
"Trust me," said Key during that speech. Trust is what got Labour there- trust in Ardern and good ministers, trust in wise decisions and actions, trust in Labour's basic good will.
Meh.
I live near a local tourist attraction. Can't see the appeal in it myself, but there are fools wandering around the street every day. It took the council years of complaints to put in a public toilet.
During all that time the attraction featured in all the tourism advertising the same council released to attract those visitors.
I'd have more sympathy for the "taxpayers and ratepayers" if they spent zero money causing the problem they don't want to clean up. Seriously, even for smaller councils how difficult is it to identify "brown spots" and bung in a portaloo?
Nash has a habit of being divisive, playing one group against another. He could give Police high tech gadgets to track people, but not put cameras on boats to monitor bycatch. Go figure.
"Go figure", you say. I can't.
I think you might have to explain as to how your second sentence supports your contention that Nash is divisive- which group is being played against which group in your example?
Police/Public with no permission from Cabinet.. and Fishing Industry/Environmentalists Just IMO.
no, think you are being divisive. what the hell has cameras got to do with cheap tourists shitting in the waterways?grow up and stop attacking the messenger, read and THINK about the message
tick tock…
https://twitter.com/ejeancarroll/status/1329852436899655681
Let's take another moment to enjoy the deliciousness of Rudy's freakout flop sweat as he looks down the barrel of treason and sedition.
And another moment to enjoy the power of the Trumps disintegrating before our eyes.
There's only one way America's ever going to save face from all this, throw them all in jail for a long long time.
If they don’t prosecute tRump he'll travel the country holding divisive rallies to disrupt Biden’s presidency. His base will stick with him and he'll undermine incumbent Republicans who don’t actively spike Biden’s agenda.
Lock him up!
New York State district attorneys are looking at him right now 🙂
Rudy's son was also at that press conference and he has just been diagnosed with Covid – was "Rudy's freakout flop sweat" also because he was ill with Covid?
Speaking of disintegration;
Might need to slow down you plans….things just went a little off track in Pennsylvania.
"…..On the heels of Gov. Tom Wolf unilaterally decertifying every voting machine in the Commonwealth, "
When did this decertification happen?
Was it this one back in April 2018?
https://www.dos.pa.gov/VotingElections/Documents/Voting%20Systems/Directives/Directive%20to%20Vendors_2018_Apr%202%20Final.pdf
If it was more recent than this, how about a linky with more information than just a statement from a Repug politician that has every incentive to be as deceptive as possible in order to sucker gullible idiots?
Don't Know. Article did not state.
Funny, just looked at the link on my laptop and there is a lot less text than when I looked at it on my phone…. I had first seen this on ZeroHedge, but given the low regard it seems to be held in here I did a quick search and linked to a main stream media article (ABC)
Another article with more text that from memory is basically the same as I saw on the ABC27 article
Basics. Dominion had agreed to turn up to a meeting on Friday 20 Nov , to explain how their voting software was good, but pulled out at the last minute…
[You have made the same assertion twice under different Posts (https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-21-11-2020/#comment-1767486 and https://thestandard.org.nz/trumps-chances-of-winning-the-presidential-election-through-legal-action/#comment-1767434) and both times you were asked for evidence in the form of a link. If you are too lazy to verify the ‘facts’ that you’re spreading here or elsewhere, you run the risk of becoming a super spreader of mis- and/or dis-information, wittingly or unwittingly. However, ignorance is no excuse.
Did you ever ponder/wonder why ZeroHedge.com and readers of ZH are generally held in low regard here? Could it be that they are too lazy to do critical research, analysis, and thinking and they are all too happy to confirm their bias?
If you want to continue commenting here, I strongly suggest you lift your game. This is your warning – Incognito]
Looking for more info I googled dominion voting software hearing pennsylvania. The hits that came back are mostly from frankly nutso sites like The Epoch Times, Just The News, Rush Limbaugh and so on.
Just the appearance of the page your link goes to should raise big red flags, and sure 'nuff, USSA News is rated as another nutso source.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/ussa-news/
https://www.factcheck.org/2017/07/websites-post-fake-satirical-stories/
Meanwhile, a more-or-less rational look at the situation says:
So reading between the lines, it looks like Dominion worked out that this hearing wasn't going to be about factual information, but was a set-up for a nutso publicity stunt for rabid MAGAmorons to do something akin to an Oozy Giuliani performance.
He's a poor faith troll pretending to be someone he's not. Should be booted for deliberately spreading nonsense.
P.S. Pennsylvania now at that 80K lead I called early. But can't get an accurate figure of votes yet to count to see if it'll climb much. A friend had 100K. We got a six pack of cider riding on it, serious business indeed.
Indeed.
But he's a good example of how disinformation gets spread. So there's some merit in delving into the weeds and showing what kind of disinformation it really is. For lurkers that might be influenced, that is. Someone actually posting crap like that is likely too far gone to be turned around.
I assumed ABC was mainstream, between my memory and the tone of their other articles… my bad trusting ABC
It happens. sort of like the photos of the kids Trump was keeping in cages, that tuned out to be taken while Obama was president..
You just can't help yourself, can you? You just gotta be a misinformation spreader.
The uproar was about the Donnie Dotard maladministration's deliberate cruelty of family separations. Taking kids from their parents and not really much caring about keeping track of them. So the point of the kids in cages was that those kids had been forcibly separated from their families, in a policy of deliberate abusive cruelty.
The situation for the Obama administration was somewhat different. At that time, there were large numbers of unaccompanied kids turning up at the border.
Of the families that turned up, in a small number of cases it was assessed that kids were at risk of harm from their families and were separated for safety reasons, or because their parents were being prosecuted for serious crimes such as trafficking, with careful tracking to enable prompt reunification when it was safe to do so.
So some of the cages were indeed built by the Obama administration, for quite different reasons than the Spraytan Stalin put them to use for. Thereby creating the small nugget of truth that the best disinformation is built from.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/23/trump-falsely-says-obama-started-family-separation/1540733001/
See my Moderation note @ 5:59 PM.
Sorry about that. What i had in mind was the NZherald article
Different assertion, different link (required). Please keep up.
You changed the topic to cages. I hope this wasn’t a diversion attempt because it certainly gives off that vibe and comes across as doubling-down 🙁
Americans celebrate Thanksgiving in 5 days time. I wonder who Americans think they are supposed to be thanking and what they are thanking him, her, or they for? Perhaps this year, they can just take their pick and just find anything or anybody in their lives to thank and ignore the rest of reality.
Murder, mayhem, cruelty, genocide, and 400 years of white supremacy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGc34FeFqH0&feature=youtu.be
In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared “A Day Of Thanksgiving” because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.
Cheered by their “victory”, the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.
Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of “thanksgiving” to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts — where it remained on display for 24 years.
http://tlio.org.uk/1637-pequot-massacre-%E2%80%8Bthe-real-story-of-thanksgiving/
pffffffft … you want to do massacres, this is how they're done.
And these are just the ones that got written down in the historic record by someone.
"pffffffft" – what a puny massacre. All relative (and rather abstract), unless you're on the receiving end.
Of the 'top' 30 genocides listed here, 27 of them occurred in the last 120 years.
See also genocides, mass killings, and war crimes – not for the faint-hearted.
What if trump asks the Turkey for a pardon?
And will the Turkey give it?
The Turkey’s reply: Get Stuffed!!
Thankful that Trump lost the election.
Hmmm. I suppose we can all be thankful that institutionalised barbarism in the U.S. is not as bad today as it was four hundred years ago.
Was it ever figured out who leaked to Nicky Hager for the Hollow men?
Also Sir John doesn't like leaking.
Sadly Covid 19 has tested positive for Don Jr.
Best wishes and a speedy recovery to C19
Covid19 will be just fine when Don Jr becomes aware C19 is a similar category of parasitic organism as itself. I believe the lawyers call it 'professional courtesy'.
In related news, at latest count there are seven Repug senators hosting Covid19, while only five have so far given any indication of acknowledging Biden won.
The paternal reaction seems a little heartless …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5lsII0IlYk
I am confused, sorry but I am confused. We have farmers and horticuturists calling out for the government to let seasonal workers from off-shore in to help them with the primary production work in NZ . We have people losing their jobs all over New Zealand because of the tourist market collapse and whatever. We have had visa’s being extended for people on visitor visas and 1 yr working holiday visas since covid hit and now we have this : “ Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has announced migrant workers will be eligible for emergency benefits under strict conditions.”
If they were really looking for work they would have come and helped me on my little farm. As many small farms and blocks like mine I advertise for short term helpers on The Backpackerboard.com and typically young backpackers travelling NZ drop in and help for 2 – 6 weeks depending on their program and mine. It’s been near impossible to find helpers this year – the first time so in 25 yrs . I guess because they have mostly found longer term employment.
No, no benefit for non – New Zealanders. These people are not people willing to work. Spend the money instead on a chartered flight to wherever they have come from. Send them home. It will be cheaper in the long run.
@ Janet..how much an hour do you pay those who 'help' you..?..or are you working the woofr-vein..and getting that help largely for free..?..if the latter..cry me a river..eh..?
'helping'?
aka slavery
Aren't you just another entitled 'small' farmer? Why the fuck should they help you? What do you give them? Other than a few meals and a bed. How magnanimous.
Who do you 'help'?
They work in exchange for full free board, in a comfortable house. Their work is calculated at the going minimum wage rate per hr rate – The woofer association asks for 28 hrs a week in exchange and I ask for 25hrs. It is a win win situation, not as you both above suggest, some kind of rip-off, and my visitor’s book is a 100% testimony to that. They get the opportunity to engage 24/7 with real kiwis at home and on the land and learn and experience a lot as well as having a place to rest a while from the tedium of continuous travelling. I get to enjoy a less insular life and they help me get through the work of the moment. With covid the annual influx has not arrived and those who were allowed to stay longer have got more permanent jobs by now.
So..@$20 per hr ..they do $500 worth of work…but you take that $500 p.w. as food and board…there are 'win win'ers and 'win win'ers ..eh..?..the whole woofing thing is exploitation writ large..of travellers trying to stretch their dollar…in a very expensive country…
My visitors book tells a totally different story – its not about $,s and exploitation at all. Its about sharing and caring . Its about incredulous marvel , nurturing, patiently teaching and listening…… its about tears on leaving and staying in touch.
Well cry me a river. Lazy so and so's refuse to work for nothing aye. Need some gullible types who get to see the wonders of nature for the minimal fee of 25 hours labor.
You sound terribly hard done by.
So 20 dollars an hour is nothing now?
OK
Chris, it's plain you can't follow a thread but you could at least try to keep up.
“for full free board in a comfortable house.” In case your eyes, as I have long suspected, skip inconvenient bits.
I take it you are being stupid to just start an argument, but work out what "free board" means.
And get it doesn't mean they have to pay for it out of their wages.
It's not "free" if it's in exchange for work.
Forgive me if I want to see proof of this McFlock
Other than you denying what the word free means
Read the damned thread.
edit: damn replied to the wrong comment
Let me put it in english.
Someone gets free board, in exchange for the opportunity of working in a job that pays this much.
This seriously can't be that hard to get.
Free:
Was this meaning of the word unknown to you?
Woofing is a work exchange situation, there are no wages involved. People work on organic farms in exchange for board and being taught skills.
It's a good scheme when it's done well, but it's not supposed to be comparable to waged work. It also operates with a degree of good will, so it's astounding to see a woofing host saying that non-residents should be sent home given woofing traditionally has been full of international travellers.
If farms depend on labour, then they should pay a decent rate to get employees who commit to work (woofing labour doesn't have this kind of commitment). If farms want to keep woofing as well, then they can make their situation attractive to Kiwis under covid border closures. I like the idea of farmers banding together to provide enough of a living for local workers, or those willing to travel for seasonal work.
Re the Kiwi thing, woofing is supposed to be skills training, so there is actually quite a good opportunity there for both sides at this time.
Woofing.
Yet another way for entitled people to avoid paying workers.
WOOFing seems to be of some interest to the Department of Labour.
In addition, of course, to international backpackers usually not being on work visas, IRD would be wanting PAYE, and ACC would be after their cut, as well.
Janet, whatever your visitor book says, I hope you're checking visas.
yeah, IRD have had a look too from memory. Thing is, woofing isn't supposed to be merely a work for board scheme. It's supposed to be a learning exchange, where people can work on organic properties and learn skills specific to organic farming/gardening. Obviously there are farmers who abuse that and simply use it as a form of cheap labour, but I think the original intent is sound. If the govt shut down the scheme I guess growers could charge for training people and then offset that with accommodation and food. I'd prefer if the sector sorted its shit out and the govt gave support for the original intent. Covid seems an ideal opportunity for both.
"The Labour Inspectorate believes that it is highly unlikely that any person working in an accommodation facility and being rewarded with accommodation could be regarded as a genuine
volunteer."
That's backpacker businesses straight up using international visitors as cheap labour. Sometimes not even woofing, it's pretty common for tourism to use work for board arrangements. I'd be happy for the govt to intervene in that.
"Labour Inspectorate has since communicated these findings to the industry, and expects accommodation providers who have been engaging in this practice to now meet their obligations as employers"
Curious now how this has been followed up given that was in 2018.
And whether they've looked at the large scale hiring of international vistitors in tourism/hospo (and I would guess hort) of people without employment agreements and where low wages and poor work conditions are normal because the workers are essentially on holiday and happy to work whatever hours in between doing their holiday things.
That shit means large numbers of jobs are simply not available for locals who need steady income and decent conditions to work around things like kids, school, paying rent/utilities and so on. My understanding is that the labour dept haven't been looking at that terribly closely (who wants to have a pop at tourism?) but I'd love to know.
It's an issue that crosses a lot of boundaries. The big one is immigration – a holiday or student visa essentially rules out any "learning exchange". I used to work with a lot of international students, ISTR the maximum hours they could work was 20/wk.
But a longer term apprenticeship scheme might work, but then that would have to be the declared reason someone enters the country.
Immigration periodically pings workplaces for hiring people without work visas, but that's difficult to detect if they're being paid under the table unless you actually raid the place in person and see who is on site.
My impression is that there are already avenues for farmers to do this legitimately. Apprenticeships, short term employment, whatevs.
The WWOOF website Janet linked to seems to directly contradict the government view about whether the "volunteers" are actually employees. Any website doing something like that tingles my spidey-sense that something not entirely kosher is going on. That's beside the entire "work without actual pay" thing. Janet's actual outgoings for 25hrs a week labour are the food the "volunteer" eats and some tv/internet time. No tax, no ACC, no other compliance costs that other farmers with employees pay.
The departments of inland revenue, labour, and immigration might be interested in participants in that deal.
But beside that, your "helpers"/employees are essentially people who do not need money. You pay them in kind. Migrant workers aren't here for the joy of traipsing around NZ on the cheap – they want money. Often to send back home to people in need.
If you only need 25hr/wk, maybe join up with some other small farmers to turn it full time? And knock a bit off the fee for room & board? At least these workers will have work visas, unlike many backpackers.
I used to see these woofers dropped off at the intercity bus every day.
There was a hug, and then the owner walked away and you could see the cold steely glint in their eye as they anticipated the next sucker coming along to do slave labour for next to nothing.
Sure it is an experience for a 21 year old German on their OE, it is not an option for a kiwi trying to survive in this country.
And many of those so called organic farms are dairy farms with a small (maybe) organic patch of veges and the workers are out there milking totally non-organic cows.
But this 'sharing and caring … incredulous marvel , nurturing, patiently teaching and listening' and 'tears on leaving and staying in touch.' becomes 'No, no benefit for non – New Zealanders. These people are not people willing to work.'.
Why is that?
Can you post a link to where their pay is taken away in food and board please.
We wouldn't want people to think you are just talking shit and that?
Thanks
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-21-11-2020/?replytocom=1767550#respond
https://wwoof.nz/how-it-works/
The original intent has been long lost, this "scheme" is being used as justification in a number of ways that have no relationship to "organic farming" to get experience. While I was checking it out references to work as "night warden" to "receptionists" even one with "pilates" came up. While there may genuine use of it still it's clear it's being used to get free labour.
https://www.backpackerboard.co.nz/work_jobs/new_zealand_voluntary_work.php
I think this is an ideal opportunity for younger folk and school leavers from the big smoke to experience their own backyard in a risk-free way. If I were younger, I’d want to do it myself! I assume to work at your little farm you have to be 18 years of age. I’m going to check out wwoof NZ; thank you for the link.
Yes , they have all left school and many are doing a "gap" year between leaving school and university. Most are under 30 and are travelling on NZ working holiday Visas. I do not take people with out visas. This year my grand-daughter took a gap year to travel to Europe to spend some time with her maternal family, but Covid struck. Instead she went woofing in NZ. Next year she starts university.
While you are back Janet
Do you mind answering a question?
Is what you pay workers on top of free board, or in exchange for free board and they in essence don't get paid?
Cheers
Yes she did. She got to experience the SI for the first time in her life , and learnt to navigate her way around NZ alone.
As per the woofer site I posted.
Had honestly never heard of woofering till today and this thread.
Looking at your link I can understand why people wouldn't mind doing that for a week or so, provided it is legit, and they are actually learning about nature.
Personally wouldn't as grew up just hanging out in the bush in the south island.
Would imagine there are some dodgy people offering it though. (Not you. As you seem to be honest)
Cheers
Chris T
You are bloody annoying. Let me put it in English for you, as McFlock has already done. Free means Free, given unconditionally. Your nonsense of 'free board given in exchange for labour' means that the board is NOT free if labour has to be given it exchange for it. Do you understand the English language?
'Woofering' would seem to me a good term for the semi-literate bullshit you have spouted.
The word 'free' has at least 42 different usages. Insisting that only one of them applies is a peculiar attempt at point scoring to say the least.
Most people enjoy woofing as part of the whole travel experience; they get to live and work in one place for a short period, which is often a lot more satisfying than just superficially travelling from place to place never really engaging with the local people.
They get to experience something they'd otherwise probably not access otherwise, and the farmer gets some labour in exchange. Woofing has been going on for yonks, although the internet has made it more popular and efficient in recent times. And there now are many variants of it in existence that have extended the concept much wider than just organic farming.
That some people here are keen to characterise it as rank exploitation is pretty typical of their sour view on life in general. They're the same people who rarely have a good word to say about anything much.
Well, look at the context of the conversation. I'm pretty sure the nautical terms don't apply to organic farming. Some of the political ones are also out – "not in slavery" seems to be a low bar. Similarly, I don't know what goes on at Janet's farm but any "licentious behaviour" would seem to be beside the point. So have a go at whittling those 42 down like a human who can parse everyday language.
Under-the-table transactions have been going on since Sumerian times. Many of them are fair enough between the parties concerned. But moaning that migrant workers stuck here shouldn't get the dole because they could work for "free" (sorry, "room and board") like backpackers is a joke.
Nice one RL. It's a rare person who never has a sour view, don't you think? Are those "some people here" by any chance the same people who "rarely have a good word to say about" your views on the value(s) of Capitalism and Marxism, the Black Lives Matter movement, whether the Covid-19 pandemic is "over", and the feasibility of certain hypothetical solutions to poverty, global warming, and ecological collapse?
For example, we disagree about the value of Dr Helen Caldicott's activism. You don't have a good word to say about her many (IMHO) positive contributions; indeed yours seems to be a rather sour view.
We do, however, agree on some things, e.g. that the way Assange is being treated is a perversion of justice. Sweet & sour sauce
Redlogix.
The basic meaning of 'free' is an absolute, like 'unique'. Something is either free (or unique) or it is not. There is no corrupting 'rather free ' or 'quite free'.
Your 42 different usages are valid if they mean using the word as a verb (to liberate) for example, but Chris T was clearly using it in the sense of 'cost-free', and that is a straight absolute. I suspect that most of your so-called 42 usages are solecisms and barbarisms taken from some less than authoritative source.
This is basically an abuse of the English language by employers who call it ‘free’ board to make it sound better than it is. It is not free. The pay for their labour is simply ‘board plus money’.
Does your grand-daughter enjoy it?
Still doubting it's an upside down world…?..ardern announces a new river of corporate/housing welfare/money..nat spokesperson suggest some restrictions on that money to stop it further fuelling the housing bubble…and in the m.s.m. this morning all the usually tory pimps from industry etc come out against tory spokesperson…and fully in support of j.ardern and her promised river of corporate/housing welfare/money…(and if you pinch yourself…no you aren't dreaming/having a nightmare…this is the labour party ..in it's second term..doing this..)
What did they do for the first one?
Forgive me if I don't hold my breath, given they are good at words and crap at action,
why would someone bother to answer you. you can even understand the woofer setup , so expecting you to understand anything slightly complicated is foolish.
Could someone put up a link about the story at Newshub about the engineer who was on The Nation this morning about the concrete poured into a shaft at the Pike River Mine in 2011.
What was the purpose of doing that?
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/11/tonnes-of-concrete-poured-into-critically-important-pike-river-mine-air-feed-where-miners-could-have-gathered-engineer.html
Thank you.
I hope that this is investigated thoroughly.
Meanwhile Key says the bleed'in obvious
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300164333/nationals-own-failings-cost-it-the-election-says-john-key
Yet the Nats keep hapless Goodfellow in charge. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300164491/peter-goodfellow-to-remain-national-party-president
Snap!
Even now, the blue bubble remains sealed off from reality. Incredible.
They have their own reality
Priorities – the board chooses its chair after members vote for new/returning board members:
Well at least we will know what the agenda is, fish out all marine stocks completely (Goodfellow has been selling down his Sanford shares for years as he knows the time is near when they are all gone), and convert to dairy subsidised by a National government.
But yes, he seems to have lost the plot, so good for the left.
Paraphrasing the Party Guru with a strong message for the Party faithful:
“If you don’t like Dirty Politics, here’s a clue, quit the Dirty Party,” Key said.
Wise words and insights from the insider par excellence.
Stop the leaking, do as I did, have a Leader almost as popular as I was, a few tax cuts and BAU and you can beat Jacinda Ardern in 2023.
They are pretty stupid re-electing Goodfellow and have learned nothing! Act and Labour will do well next time.
National have re-elected Goodfellow as party president. So the lesson they have learned from electoral disaster is … nothing.
Champagne corks are popping at Labour HQ.