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Open mike 21/01/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 21st, 2012 - 80 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

80 comments on “Open mike 21/01/2012 ”

  1. vto 2

    On te news today regarding the fellows who did the megaupload thing it was reported along the lines “Police today arrested 4 men at the request of American officials”.

    Now pardon me but since when have we been subject to US law?

    I’m sure there may well be a simple answer, like extradition stuff … anyone know and care to enlighten?

    • Colonial Viper 2.1

      76 NZ police were involved in the operation, after a year long investigation using up NZ law enforcement resources.

      Absolutely fucking ridiculous.

      • vto 2.1.1

        Thanks Mr Viper, but on what basis are our police required to enforce US law in our country?

        • Salsy

          Well TV3 havd this to say…
          Left-wing blogger Idiot/Savant tweeted: “copyright infringement is not an extraditeable (sic) offence according to the NZ-US treaty”.

          But legal blogger tweeted Graeme Edgeler said “people can be extradited from NZ to US for ANY offence that in both countries carries a penalty of at least 12 months’ imprisonment”.

  2. Salsy 3

    Ive no issue with Kim Dotcom, nor do probably the majority of New Zealanders. But interestingly it does bring up a few more questions – National let anything that crawls has a handfull of cash get residency in this country. So with 76 cops over 1 year, what benefit in terms of overseas investment is this Bill & John? Hopefully someone out there is keeping a tally on the failures of the National party to once and for all break the myth that they are good for the economy – SCF, Rena, leaky homes, Pike river…

    • satty 3.1

      Thanks, that someone actually mentions this. Most New Zealanders don’t know his past though.

      Being a German with NZ residency myself, I was extremely surprised Kim was allowed to settle here. A “normal” person has to provide a “proof of good character” – a clean police record of all countries someone stayed in the past for longer than a couple of months – and has to go through extensive health checks.

      In this case, you don’t even have to ask for a police record, if you know how to google, to know that Kim was a convicted criminal. By the look of it, his prison stay didn’t help him to get a healthy weight either.

      From a NZ point of view, he is obviously a nice bargain item on the road to a FTA with the US, probably the reason he was allowed to stay here.

      • Colonial Viper 3.1.1

        Bringing a couple of million dollars into NZ and starting a business employing a few people is usually enough to score your NZ permanent residence. Thats how capitalistic our system has become.

        Good character? Meh, too old fashioned.

        • felix

          I’d go one further and say that in our shallow, grasping paradigm good character now means having a couple of million and employing a couple of people.

          Heed the words of The Wolf. Just because you are a character doesn’t mean you have character.

    • MrSmith 3.2

      Another example folks that we are now another state of the USA! is jinskey back from Hawaii yet.  

      • Vicky32 3.2.1

        Another example folks that we are now another state of the USA!

        Seconded… We have been culturally for as long as I have been alive as far as I can make out… from the linguistic evidence anyway… which is my area of interest. But now, it really bites. I for one, am less than thrilled to be associated with the new Evil Empire. 🙁

        • Brett Dale

          Really Vicky32?

          The more we are associated with the USA, the better I think.

          Oh are you enjoying the internet?

          • vto

            You sound like Neville Chamberlain

          • McFlock

            Oh are you enjoying the internet?
            Because technology = culture?
            BTW, US organisations did the major advances in networking – but they didn’t invent HTML.

            • Brett Dale

              If it wasnt for the USA, we wouldnt be online right now.

              • McFlock

                And if it weren’t for the Soviets, the USA wouldn’t have bothered.
                And if it weren’t for the Germans, the Russians wouldn’t have had a revolution.
                So we should probably get closer to the French.
                But that doesn’t mean I have to watch or be grateful for Marcel Marceau.
                But really, if it weren’t for a brit we wouldn’t have the web.

          • Vicky32

            Oh are you enjoying the internet?

            Oh, are under the impression that the Americans own the Internet and generously let the rest of us use it? 😀 Or that they invented it? (NOTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
            And, as McFlock says, technology is not the same as culture.
            Fact: I do not buy American products, watch American TV shows or films, listen to American music or radio, etc. It’s not easy in New Zealand, but it can be done. I act similarly with regard to Israel – despite being constantly accosted by Israelis in Westfield malls, who are hawking vastly over-priced cosmetics, and who, according to my son, should not be supported anyway, as the company they work for is as dodgy as all hell. (In terms of labour and immigration laws.)

            • Brett Dale

              Your kidding me vicky?

              Your that anti american/israeli??

              You should join TeMana or give Minto a call.

              • Vicky32

                Your that anti american/israeli??

                Yes, I am, and what of it?
                The reason is that war-mongering makes me ill.

                • But with other countries human rights records and war records, you just shut your mouth and say nothing????


                  • Vicky32

                    But with other countries human rights records and war records, you just shut your mouth and say nothing????

                    What makes you think that? I oppose war-mongering no matter who does it. However, recently, it’s all been one particular power. Guess which? 🙂

  3. randal 4

    and a thief to boot.
    he never created anything.
    nek minit.
    MSN reports TEPCO to be ‘nationalised’ for 10 years?
    does that mean they have sold it to kweewee and gerry brownlee and bill english and manager gibson?

  4. Get the chip off your shoulder about the USA, this guys is a criminal and also will be so far from your political view point its not even funny, but hey have a go at America.

    This place is sadder than that little Racist Minto and his three or four protesters.

    Heck I guess he had no Israeli’s to harrass yesterday.

    • vto 5.1

      whooosh …….

    • felix 5.2

      lolwut Brett?

      Minto is a racist?

      That’ll come as a surprise to a couple of generations of South Africans.

      • vto 5.2.1

        Actually you know mr felix, Minto should be up for a gong. He has done more for people of the world and for NZ and our reputation and standing in the eyes of the world than countless other gong receivers – such as that twat Graeme Harrison whose business ANZCO Foods makes greater profits by the remarkable ingenious method of reducing his workers wages.

        I mean, who is more deserving?

        What do you think Brett Dill?

      • Brett Dale 5.2.2

        Racist against Israeli’s and Americans.

        Here is what that cunt said when apartheid was happening in New Zealand with that cafe owner refusing too serve two isareli woman.

        “I couldnt care less if two israeli’s cant get a cup of coffee”

        When was the outrage from left wing groups, where was the shame??? Where was Robyn Malcom, they all just shut up and said nothing like the hypcoritcal pieces of human waste that they are.

        • Colonial Viper

          Classy Brett, full of lies and misdirection exactly what we’ve come to expect from you.

          • Brett Dale

            What is misdirecting, Viper?

            Here is a guy who says he is against apartheid, but when those racists cafe owners said they wouldnt serve Israeli’s, John Minto was asked to go along to a protest and he said and I quote “I couldn’t care less if two Israeli’s cant get a cup of coffee”

            He’s a racist and he’s a hypocrite.

            • McFlock

              Brett, what is the differencebetween an economic boycott against an oppressive nation (e.g. South Africa, Saddam’s Iraq) and applying that to cafe service?

              • MCFuck

                They didnt get served because of their nationally, THIS IS FUCKIN NEWZEALAND, WE DONT DO THAT.

                It should of been a huge outrage, but you so called caring socialists didnt give a shit, because they were Israeli.

                • felix

                  Err Brett, I think you’ll find they didn’t get served because their country is governed by an immoral, genocidal, apartheid regime.

                  When you were so vehemently opposed to apartheid in Sth Africa, did you not support the boycotts?

                  • Yes felix, of course but that is nothing to do with being a racist piece of shit and not serving someone from a particular country.

                    • felix

                      So presumably you’re just as opposed to the racist apartheid regime in Israel as you were to the one in Sth Africa.

                      If not, why not?

                • McFlock

                  Yes, we do have or had had economic sanctions against countries whose behaviour we find reprehensible. Fiji springs to mind as being on the way there, South Africa and Iraq definitely. So what is the differencebetween that and its application at the local level?

                • mik e

                  BD the reason the Israelis are so despised is that they were supposed to share Israel with the Palestinians but never have and are now treating the Palestinians similarly to how the Nazis treated them.Fundamentalist Jews are occupying meagre lands that the Palestinians have been ostracised to .Creating a rod for their own back and a power struggle and arms race in the middle east.Benefiting the US arms manufactures.

        • felix

          Could you please give us an example of Minto (or anyone actually) being “racist against Americans”?

          I can’t even imagine how that would work.

          • Brett Dale

            You are aware you can be racist and bigoted against a certain country, the spew that he has spoken thru out his life, is one example, I am not your PA felix DYOR.

            • felix

              So nothing, Brett?

              All that anger and you can’t think of a single example of anyone being “racist against Americans”?

              Gee I wonder why?

  5. Minto only gives a fuck about his own ideology, if he had any intrgity at all as a human being he would of been outside that cafe protesting, but because it was happening to israeli’s he just shrugged it off, he is in a disgusting human being and is in fact one of the worst kiwis to have ever lived.

    BTW I was 100% against the 1981 tour.

    • Colonial Viper 6.1

      Wow you can remember where you were during the ’81 tour better than John Key I suppose.

      Hey mate please justify why a systematic segregation of economic and political power is the same as buying a cup of coffee?

  6. Hey Viperboy, what do you think would of happen if an American Cafe owner living here, refused to serve people from Iraq, Minto and people here would be up in arms, but because they were too Israeli’s you guys thought , FUCK IT, who cares.

    To me that is repugnant.

    • felix 7.1


      You do realise that scenario you just dreamed up for comparison hasn’t actually happened, right Brett?

      So if you find it repugnant you might want to have a think about where it came from and do some soul searching. It’s all your own work mate.

      • Brett Dale 7.1.1

        Oh Please Felix, every little socialist group will be up in arms if that happened, but when the two Israeli’s were refused service, you guys said nothing, not one word from Socialist Aotearoa not one word from the Greens, not one word from global peace and justice, and certainly not one word form those sub human shits at peace action new Zealand, and of course no New Zealand actor voiced their disgust, everybody just shut up like the little racists that they are.

        • felix

          “Oh Please Felix, every little socialist group will be up in arms if that happened”

          But it didn’t happen Brett. That scenario only exists in your mind.

          How can you be so angry about something you made up?

          • Brett Dale

            Like you said its a Scenario.

            But what happened to those Israeli’s and your silence, actually happened, you should be disgusted with yourself as an activist and disgusted with yourself as a humanbeing.

            • felix

              “Like you said its a Scenario.”

              No, it’s your scenario.

              Anything that happens in your scenario is 100% your responsibility. Not mine, not Minto’s, not any of the other people and groups you’ve been saying such horrible, nasty things about today.

              Don’t try to make the rest of us share the blame for your fantasies, Brett.

  7. So you have no problem with apartheid happening in New Zealand?

    • vto 8.1

      Look Mr Dale, I think most people have a problem with apartheid in NZ. Problem is it seems there are varous forms of apartheid – some are ok apparently while others are not. I’ll be buggered if I can work out how the distinguishments are made but people do jump up and down and say “yes, you can distinguish on the basis of race in this circumstance, but you can’t in this cicurmstance”. I have frequent skirmishes on this site on this exact issue, so I have some sympathy for your plight here today.

      • Brett Dale 8.1.1

        You cannot stand up for one inform of injustice and not another.

        These protestors say they are for peace under any circumstances and there is no excuses for acts of violence they say, but after 9/11 these groups said “well they bought it upon themselves”

        IMHO they dont care about peace or justice, just their own political ideology.

        • felix

          “You cannot stand up for one inform of injustice and not another.”

          Perhaps that’s something to keep in mind while you’re defending the Israeli apartheid regime.

  8. Jum 9


    ‘But it didn’t happen Brett. That scenario only exists in your mind.

    How can you be so angry about something you made up?’ LOL

  9. Apartheid is happening in New Zealand, when two cafe owners refused to serve people because of the country that they are from, that is sick and makes me angry.

  10. [Deleted. Pointless abusive shouting…RL]

  11. You dont get it do you mcflock?

    Okay I will ask it simply for you.

    Do you think its okay for a business owner in New Zealand not to serve someone depending on
    what country they are from?

    • McFlock 12.1

      If that service will assist in perpetuating inhumane conditions in the country of origin, yes I believe it should be withheld.
      In this specific case, I don’t know if the cafe owner refused service because they were genuinely racist/antisemitic, or because they refused to condone the priviledged position that the travellers had as a result of the situation in Israel&Palestine. The latter seems a bit extreme, but is not the racism whistle you’re blowing.

  12. What the fuck is wrong with you McFlock? I mean seriously?????

    The cafe owners in Invercargill refused to serve coffee to two Israeli woman who came in to his cafe.

    How can you not be sick to your stomach with that?

    Any political happenigs overseas has fuck all to do with it.

    Here is a cafe owner in New Zealand refusing to serve someone because of what country they are from.

    Its racist and its wrong.

    • McFlock 13.1

      I know that you are an idiot who can only handle one concept as a time, so everything happens in a vacuum for you.
      In reality, however, everything is interconnected and is usually in shades of grey. Sometimes, what happens on the other side of the planet does affect downtown Invercargill. That is what you fail to understand.

    • RedLogix 13.2

      Sorry Brett, but having actually lived and worked in Israel for just over two years I find your passioned defense of a nation utterly riven with religious, cultural and economic divisions of the worst and most egregious kind… more than a faintly silly.

    • Colonial Viper 13.3

      Here is a cafe owner in New Zealand refusing to serve someone because of what country they are from.

      Its racist and its wrong.

      So what race was being descriminated against when the Israelis weren’t served, Brett?

      Because I think you have no concept of what you are talking about.

    • mik e 13.4

      I met some Israelis on holiday they were loud arrogant and obnoxious they don’t doe themselves any favours

      • McFlock 13.4.1

        okay that‘s well into dodgy territory.

      • RedLogix 13.4.2

        When I lived there I encountered this all the time; as a New Zealander I found them loud, cock-sure and full of themselves. It’s pretty much the same with all the macho Middle Eastern cultures…. it’s not just an Israeli thing.

        It’s also quite a contrast to classic Kiwi laid-back. At the risk of gross generalisation we are a lot quieter, self-effacing and less forthright in pushing our opinions around.

        I had mixed reactions to it; sometimes it was amusing and eye popping and other times it was all a bit grating to say the least.

  13. I think you have no concept of human decency.

    • McFlock 14.1

      Using  phosphorous artillery shells in residential areas is pretty indecent.

      • Brett Dale 14.1.1

        Nothing at all to do with the cafe owner and his bigoted act.


        • Colonial Viper

          What race was being descriminated against in Invercargill mate? Can you answer me? Come on, answer, otherwise people will think that you throw around terms like “racism” on a whim with faux outrage but no understanding. Surely that’s not you right though, Brett?

        • RedLogix

          Nothing at all to do with the cafe owner and his bigoted act.
          Yeah… it turned out that the tourists were from another country altogether, that just happens to also have the same name as Israel.

          You know when people get passionate about something, like you did when you started shouting the abuse I moderated above, they do things they might not ordinarily do. I have to assume that if you were a dinner guest at my home you wouldn’t behave like you have in this forum this afternoon.

          So this cafe owner who is no doubt informed about the many, many very evil things that have and are happening all through the Middle East …including Israel….. and also feels powerless to do anything about it , was faced with two privileged Israeli tourists… he/she acted in the only way they felt open to them.

          Now it was a clumsy sort of protest, it was personal and it was not very effective (kind of like your abuse of McFlock). But this incident was also a one-off. There are no laws in this country mandating that Israeli’s must not be served in cafes. There aren’t even any customary practises in this country like that, unlike Israel. I recall dining out at a several upmarket restauraunts when I lived there… not one single Arab in evidence, ever.

          Nor is Israel alone; you only have to look over the immediate border to Syria to see another kind of nightmare being played out right now. Frankly if a member of the Syrian government were to enter a cafe of mine right now…they’d be lucky just to be refused service.

          Ultimately this is what happens when people feel powerless to change things they know are wrong; because when you frustrate legitimate and effective protest in the end you get illegitimate or even violent protest. And that is what the left is about; being a legitimate and effective voice for change; a standard we strongly adhere to in this forum.

        • mik e

          Brett I suppose if they banned some Nazis Brett it would be Racist too.
          No chance youll be getting a coffee in Invers any time soon

    • Colonial Viper 14.2

      Hey Brett what race are Israelis again? You’re talking about the horrors of racism so what race are those Israelis mate?

  14. felix 15

    Hey Brett. People are asking you some pretty straight questions and you’re not responding to them. Perhaps it’ll be easier if I compile a few and simplify them a little:

    *Can you give one example of Minto or anyone else actually being “racist against Americans” or not?

    *Why do you not oppose apartheid in Israel the way you say you did in South Africa?

    *Which race was being discriminated against in the Invercargill cafe?

    Take your time.

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    3 weeks ago