Open mike 21/02/2012

46 comments on “Open mike 21/02/2012 ”

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1. Sanctuary 1

   21 February 2012 at 7:37 am

   I wonder what Sky and the NZRFU – struggling with declining Super Rugby crowds, declining TV viewing numbers, and a weak economy – think about ZB and Radiosport both running with Tony Veitch as their marquee rugby sport talk host?

   With rugby trying to leverage increased support for the game in the afterglow of the RWC, with its unprecedented female interest, the two major radio outlets for sport talk – ZB and radiosport – have decided to go with a man chiefly notorious for his violent assault on his female partner. In fact, the high rating Saturday morning radio line up – Holmes then Veitch – looks pitched exclusively to a red neck audience of racist middle aged white male misogynists with anger manangement issues. Racism 9am-12pm, then a healthy bout of macho sport talk from a weedy little coward of a women beating sports shock-jock.

   A disgraceful one finger salute to anyone else, though.
   • Carol 1.1

     21 February 2012 at 7:53 am

     Agreed, Bored. My following of rugby has tended to wax and wane over the years. I’m no more into wane territory. The RWC circus has had a lot to do with that decline in interest.

     The shift to Sky and starving of FTA coverage also has had a lot to my long term decline in interest in TV sport. (Used to follow netball more when it was FTA live.)

     And at times I have listened to Radio Sport (the constant slamming of “tree-hugging, sandal-wearing, hairy-legged lesbians by the talk-back folk there hasn’t done a lot for my enthusiasm – as though us leftie feminist lesbians aren’t going to be interested in male rugby and other sports?).

     But the Veitch recall is a step much too far. I thought Willie Losie was one of the better commentators….? So they’ve dropped him?
     • Carol 1.1.1

       21 February 2012 at 8:07 am

       Sorry, Sanctuary, I incorrectly addressed Bored instead of you (his handle was below your post in the next post).
     • millsy 1.1.2

       21 February 2012 at 11:28 pm

       Speaking of Radio Sport (oh how I wasted my teen years listening to that drivel), this poster wonders if the talk back callers would be speaking as highly of Graham Henry and Richie McCaw if they has lost the World Cup final. I would wager that they would be calling for them to be strung up from the Eden Park goalposts….how very fickle.

       And they seem to have it in for Jonah Lomu, even though the guy had more respect for the All Black jersey in his little finger than his douchebag team mates (including Zinzan ‘I dont know what would happen if I found them at the bottom of a ruck’ Brooke).
2. Bored 2

   21 February 2012 at 7:37 am

   Something BBfloyd posted yesterday..“we are still left with the reality that this is just the aristocracy taking back what we shed blood to gain….. dignity in our work… a future for our kids…a balanced, healthy, democratic society that works for the whole of society…..

   This got me thinking about a tour of the Waitaki dams during the 60s with my parents, how their generation was committed to a common future, how their generation shared the tax burden to build a future to be proud of. And here goes my generation throwing away our childrens future to the self same financial aristocracy of money that my parents generation kept in chains for a good reason.

   I then reflected on the Maori “renaissance” in vogue in the 70s whilst I was at Uni, and thought about it in the contect of Bill English saying Maori at hui were accepting of the asset sales so long as Maori interests were protected. Years back I wondered about the possibility of, and the danger of the “renaissance” giving empowerment to a race based aristocracy.

   Seems we have aristocracy problems all over again.
   • Carol 2.1

     21 February 2012 at 8:03 am

     I then reflected on the Maori “renaissance” in vogue in the 70s whilst I was at Uni, and thought about it in the contect of Bill English saying Maori at hui were accepting of the asset sales so long as Maori interests were protected.

     Actually, Bored (while I agree with your 1st paragraph above), I think you’ve given too much credance to the government’s propaganda on this, as uncritically reported by the MSM.

     The situation is not totally clear, but if the Mp insist on section 9 remaining in the SOE act, it could put a big roadblock in front of NAct’s attempt to privatise assets. I heard on RNZ yesterday that the Mp challenged the government view that the responses at the hui were very positive towards the government’s line, as seen in this press release from the Mp on Saturday:

     http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1202/S00195/maori-party-members-raise-issues-around-mixed-messages.htm

     “While there was a public statement declaring Government had an open mind, Minister Ryall was putting forward a different view – suggesting that section 27 of the State Owned Enterprises Act was sufficient for all of our rights and indeed that participants at the other hui supported that view. Our feedback challenges that view”.

     “We have had reliable and regular feedback from every single hui and the message is unanimous – at the heart of the debate is section nine of the SOE Act requiring the Crown to act in accordance with the Treaty” said Ms Gardiner. “Nothing less will do”.

     “If anything, the predominant view was that we needed to both protect and enhance the rights and obligations expressed in Section nine”.

     Sir Api Mahuika advised the participants at the Gisborne hui, that at the Iwi Chairs Forum at Waitangi there was also a clear message to retain section 9, and then to strengthen it”.
     • Bored 2.1.1

       21 February 2012 at 3:52 pm

       Hi Carol, I hope you are right about this, its got the potential to be incredibly divisive in the worst way. It would worry me if MP and the iwi hierarchies could not see the bigger picture outside of immediate financial gain.
   • ianmac 2.2

     21 February 2012 at 9:55 am

     Bored: Bill English saying Maori at hui were accepting of the asset sales so long as Maori interests were protected.
     Is that right? Have the hui accepted the asset sales? Or is that Bill’s spin?
     Since last night’s TV3 poll showed 71% of the population were agin asset sales. where might that leave hui?
     • Bored 2.2.1

       21 February 2012 at 3:54 pm

       Ian / Carol, its what he is saying and it is the line of spin that is coming out National party spin. I would like to think they are full of proverbial, hope so.
       • ianmac 2.2.1.1

         21 February 2012 at 4:36 pm

         I cannot believe that the result of all those (angry?) hui is to say yes to sell as long as Section 6 is included. Wow!
         • marty mars 2.2.1.1.1

           21 February 2012 at 8:39 pm

           I think it is his latest bullshit

           http://mars2earth.blogspot.co.nz/2012/02/real-threat.html
   • millsy 2.3

     21 February 2012 at 11:38 pm

     There needs to be a moritorium on treaty settlements in this country so there can be some form of investigation into who is benefiting from them. Over the past 2 decades, billions of dollars worth of assets have been transferred into iwi hands with little consultation. This includes valuable conservation land and reserves, and is starting to happen with our lakes, rivers and beaches.

     Some people, espcially on the right, think that the treaty settlement process is too long and drawn out, but to me, it seems that it is being rushed, and we are going to be sorry when our children find they cannot enjoy our outdoor beauty because the local iwi has put a locked gate up on it, and are only opening it for high paying tourists.

     Time to say Taihoa.
     • Fortran 2.3.1

       22 February 2012 at 1:16 pm

       Agreed – but we are closing the doors after the Maori elite have bolted.
3. just saying 3

   21 February 2012 at 8:30 am

   I watched with interest as John Pagani joined the ‘Greens becoming the new opposition’ thread at about 9.25pm last night. My opinion of him was raised a little, just by the fact that he found his way to an actual left-wing blog, and the fact that he was prepared to discuss his controversial views on welfare reform.

   Several excellent, highly pertinent replies and questions were posted in response, but having dropped a link to his site, he immediately departed the conversation. So, just a case of link-whoring then. Maybe he needed a lift in his site traffic figures? It seems appropriate that Pagani would use a left-wing discussion forum for commercial purposes, having sold-out the left a long time ago, and done very nicely out of it to date.

   I hope he has saved some of his ‘thirty pieces of silver’ because something tells me his gravy train might be on the wane…
   • Lanthanide 3.1

     21 February 2012 at 9:07 am

     I suspect that we get a lot of high profile readers from across the political spectrum, as well as media. So far only a handful have chosen to participate, over time hopefully more will.
4. vto 4

   21 February 2012 at 9:20 am

   Loved the way the local iwi are wading into the Crafar Farms saga with an occupation.

   It is like playing the right’s game straight back at them. You know – all’s fair in love and war. So, the locals do what they are legeally entitled to do in order to discourage their competition from the farms. Brilliant.

   All we need next is to discover a whole bunch of rare snails on the farms and voila, deal done. Or rather, OIO deal undone.

   ha ha ha ha ha ha ha – it is very interesting to watch Key trying to play this. He seems entirely and completely out of his depth. Just doing a bit of squawking – quack quack.
   • tc 4.1

     21 February 2012 at 9:34 am

     They should have a look on the waikato west coast where a large landowner who informed none of his neighbours apparently has a chinese miner drilling into some historic sites with no current permit.
     • Te Reo Putake 4.1.1

       21 February 2012 at 9:46 am

       Have you got a link for that, TC, sounds interesting!
       • tc 4.1.1.1

         21 February 2012 at 10:46 am

         Online Petition

         Facebook Petition

         First time so hope that works.
         • Te Reo Putake 4.1.1.1.1

           21 February 2012 at 10:58 am

           Cheers, TC. The fb link seems to loop back to the Standard, but here’s a related story in the Waikato Times.
           • tc 4.1.1.1.1.1

             21 February 2012 at 11:27 am

             FB Petition
5. phillip ure.. 5

   21 February 2012 at 9:30 am

   http://whoar.co.nz/2012/the-bank-of-england-gets-it-wrong-yet-again-commentwhoar-it-would-seem-the-bank-of-england-echoes-our-treasury-in-making-fiscal-predictions-that-both-prop-up-the-policies-of-the-govt/

   (ed:..and of course the ‘greatest-hit’ from our local over-paid clowns..

   ..was their propping up of nationals’ election-policies..

   ..in ’08..

   ..by asserting that the great financial collapse would all be better in just a few months time..in early ’09..

   ..that worked out well/came to pass..eh..?..?

   ..and of course they did a redux for national..just prior to the last election…

   ..predictions also supporting nationals’ neo-lib policies..

   ..and predictions..that as always…had to be ‘revised’ shortly after…

   ..it is like another version of groundhog day..

   ..the treasury-clowns come out and make their po-faced predictions..

   ..relying on/hoping we don’t remember their previous equally po-faced predictions..

   ..that they have a 100% fail-rate on..

   ..(that figure again..?..100% fail-rate..)

   (here is the british version:..)

   “..As he has done on numerous occasions in the past, Sir Mervyn then made it clear that in his view none of what has happened could be blamed on the Bank –

   – as everything possible had been done – and away the journalists all trot.

   Given that banking crises are as old as the hills he cannot get away with throwing up his hands.

   Wasn’t there a South Sea bubble?

   I don’t buy it, sorry.

   The Bank of England is packed full of economists paid out of the public purse –

   – and the public is entitled to value for its money and it hasn’t had it.

   To this point, there has been no official inquiry into why their overly optimistic forecasts on growth and inflation –

   – have been worse than the proverbial monkey throwing darts at a wall…”

   (cont..)

   phil-at-whoar.
   • Te Reo Putake 5.1

     21 February 2012 at 9:56 am

     Can you translate that into English, Phil? I’d love to know what you think you are saying but your incoherent writing style makes it impossible for your points to come across.
      
     Of course you may be on acid and it all makes sense to you. Or you are participating in a Burroughs/Gysin cut up experiment and the hippos are boiling in their cages … twilights last gleaming … all towers open fire!
     • phillip ure.. 5.1.1

       21 February 2012 at 11:42 am

       i take it the loss of capital letters as signposts for you..leads you to become somewhat confused..?

       ..i write out loud..

       ..try reading out loud..

       ..or don’t..

       ..it’s only my opinion..eh..?

       ..phil-at-whoar.
       • Te Reo Putake 5.1.1.1

         21 February 2012 at 11:55 am

         Well, it’s up to you, but vomiting on the page is no substitute for real communication. How about you try writing in a way that’s inclusive and see if you get better engagement? I wouldn’t bother asking, but amongst the jumble there is the occasional nugget of insight and I suspect you might get taken a bit more seriously if you made the effort to respect readers.
     • Fortran 5.1.2

       21 February 2012 at 1:59 pm

       I always flick past Philip Ure – he is illiterate, so page down.
       • Kevin Welsh 5.1.2.1

         21 February 2012 at 2:03 pm

         As bad as Aerobubbles 100 line sentences.
       • Ianupnorth 5.1.2.2

         21 February 2012 at 4:29 pm

         Agree
   • Colonial Viper 5.2

     21 February 2012 at 10:11 am

     The Bank of England is packed full of economists paid out of the public purse –

     – and the public is entitled to value for its money and it hasn’t had it.

     To this point, there has been no official inquiry into why their overly optimistic forecasts on growth and inflation –

     – have been worse than the proverbial monkey throwing darts at a wall…”

     That’s because even neoclassical economists don’t understand the limitations and failures of their own neoclassical theory.

     Far from these economists not delivering value for money, these economists have actually been destroying value in communities.
     • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1

       21 February 2012 at 12:18 pm

       That’s because even neoclassical economists don’t understand the limitations and failures of their own neoclassical theory.

       It’s not so much that they don’t understand them, it’s that they ignore them and/or assume them away.
6. NickS 6

   21 February 2012 at 9:43 am

   http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/government-urged-act-jump-in-infectious-diseases-4732930

   /grrrrrrrrr

   Fuck, I’ll try and make time to read this paper tonight if I can find the time (back @uni, already heavy reading schedule) and throw together a post using the paper and it’s references, because poor health has life long consequences. And in this case is the direct longterm fucking result of benefit cuts by the National government of the 1990’s, along with state housing, that the 5th Labour government did jack all to reverse, that is now creating negative health outcomes for societies poorest, and probably costing use more in lost hours and other known negative outcomes (that I’ll pull from the literature) than the cost of providing proper healthcare, housing and benefits would.

   And isn’t being helped by a NAct government that couldn’t give a flying fuck about the poor.

   And now to try and and scrap together some bioethics readings via plato.standford because I can’t get the textbook just yet, and Wiley Publishing too cheap to provide an ebook version (and I’m broke).
   • William Joyce 6.1

     21 February 2012 at 9:58 am

     The Welfare Working Group was told by doctors and academics of the appalling illnesses (both physical and mental) they were seeing and they could chart it all back to the social changes enforced by the welfare cuts in the early 90’s.
      
     So did the WWG recommend measures to alleviate poverty? No, just some more of the same.
     • millsy 6.1.1

       21 February 2012 at 10:49 pm

       All of the social breakdown and misery that is going along with it can be traced back to Ruth Richardson’s 1991 austerity package, as well as the ECA. Benefit cuts were only part of a general package of social safety net slash and burn. Health, education and other (non benefit) welfare services were severely cut, and a whole generation thrown on the scrap heap.
7. William Joyce 7

   21 February 2012 at 10:04 am

   And yet some more chickens coming home to roost….

   Two top US retailers have launched investigations into the New Zealand fish imports after publication of an extensive investigation into slave or indentured labour conditions aboard foreign charter fishing vessels (FCVs) operating in New Zealand’s exclusive economic zone.  – Link

    
   Quick profits from debt slavery puts $178 million in peril. But hey, business knows best and government should get out of the way.
   Yet, right. That’s not the world I want to live in!
8. Tigger 8

   21 February 2012 at 10:05 am

   http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/6452854/Report-sparks-US-probe-into-NZ-fish-imports

   See, RWNJs this is a very good reason why we give a shit about what happens in our waters!  Yes, some of us also think slave conditions are morally wrong but therec omit sense behind it too. Yet another blow to 100% Pure’s legacy…  
9. ianmac 9

   21 February 2012 at 11:13 am

   Millhouse sent me a link to this charming vision of the scale of all things by size. It shows just how small we are in the Universe in an interactive form. Schoolkids might find it of interest as well as us.
   http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white
   • phillip ure.. 9.1

     21 February 2012 at 11:56 am

     yeah..that is very cool..i found/linked to it a couple of weeks ago..

     ..the click-on objects options are also fun to get lost in for a while..

     ..and of course perspectives like this also illuminate the farce of those believing the earth is 16,000 yrs old..

     ..and that we are the only ‘intelligent’ ones in that universe..

     ..idiots..

     phil-at-whoar.
10. Pascal's bookie 10

    21 February 2012 at 11:50 am

    man, looks like a whole bunch of economists from top US universities have completely lost the plot.

    http://bit.ly/wprmC8

    I’m pretty sure that I’ve been told again and agaim that he stimulus failed, didn’t work and so on and so forth.

    Be interesting to hear if they thought the stimpak was optimally designed and how they’d do it different if they could do it over…
11. ianmac 11

    21 February 2012 at 4:42 pm

    Did you hear on National Radio News that the Crafar farms consortium is going to the Appeals Court to seek a review of the “buyer bringing expertise to the sale.” They believe that the buyers do not have expertise and I suppose by employing Landcorp the buyers sort of bypass the requirement.
12. BLiP 12

    21 February 2012 at 4:54 pm

    Child Poverty Action Group presents the Bryan Bruce TV doco ‘Inside Child Poverty’

    Did you miss the controversial showing of ‘Inside Child Poverty’, the Bryan Bruce TV documentary that sparked a national conversation before the 2011 election? Now is your chance to see it, appropriately, on National Children’s Day.

    If you have already seen it, then it is certainly worth another viewing – particularly as it will be followed by a discussion with Bryan Bruce himself. He is a multi-award winning documentary maker and writer.

    When: National Children’s Day – Sunday, 4 March, 7pm for 7.30pm start
    Where: Academy Cinema, Lorne St (under the Central Library), Auckland
    Cost: $20 per ticket to CPAG 38 9003 0066858 00 (code is your name and number of tickets) or by cheque to CPAG, PO Box 5611, Wellesley St, Auckland 1141. Send an email to admin@cpag.org.nz to have an electronic ticket sent to you, or pick it up on the night.

    The evening marks the launch of Child Poverty Action Group’s 2012 Appeal Campaign: A fair go for all kiwi kids – stop discrimination against New Zealand’s poorest children. The aim is to raise $50,0000 to allow CPAG to take its long standing human rights case to the Court of Appeal and beyond if necessary. Find out more at http://www.cpag.org.nz
13. Armchair Critic 13

    21 February 2012 at 7:28 pm

    Local government reform, anyone?
    A tiny article in the Herald last evening is all the notice given, except for four recent patsy questions in parliament.
    8 February, on rates increases.
    9 February, on increased debt at councils.
    15 February, on increased labour costs
    16 February, on rates increases again.
    I think it is quite easy to see where this is heading – an attack on the PSA, even more contracting out and sales of council assets.
    • Armchair Critic 13.1

      21 February 2012 at 7:33 pm

      Lost the links.
      Here’s the Herald
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10786827
      and for the questions in parliament
      http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Business/QOA/
      and filter by portfolio – local government
      • Draco T Bastard 13.1.1

        21 February 2012 at 9:00 pm

        Quoting NZH article:

        However, asked whether there might be further amalgamations of councils, Mr Key indicated it could be up for consideration.

        “We won’t force amalgamation, but we do think amalgamation in Auckland has been successful.”

        And Auckland wasn’t forcibly amalgamated nor did we have our right to referendum removed: Yeah, Right.

        8. Labour Costs—Local Government Compared with Central Government and Public Sector

        Nicky Wagner: Are there any differences in the tools available to central government as compared with local government in managing labour costs?

        Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Yes, there are. Cabinet has the capacity to set overall policy on the levels of remuneration and staff numbers across the State sector. These tools have been used to get these costs back under control after the excessive growth that occurred prior to 2008. Mayors and councillors currently do not have such tools available to them, and this makes it more difficult for them to manage labour costs and their impact on rate increases. The Government is exploring whether the councils need more tools to better manage these costs, as part of a broader programme of local government reform to reduce pressure on rates.

        Translated: Increase downward pressure on wages.

        So, we’re going to see more cities and boroughs forcibly amalgamated and more civil service workers fired.
        • Armchair Critic 13.1.1.1

          21 February 2012 at 9:25 pm

          maybe not fired. Made redundant and employed by the contractors who provide the same services for more money and less accountability. Or move to Australia.
          Anyway, it’s on its way, less democracy for more money. Thanks National, in anticipation.
14. Te Reo Putake 14

    21 February 2012 at 10:04 pm

    Latest Roy Morgan out, another dumb FPP headline, but Roy reckons the numbers tell the tale:
     
    “Overall support for the full National-led Government has dipped to 48.5% (down 0.5%), trailing the Opposition Parties (51.5%, up 0.5%). Worryingly for Key, this is the lowest level of support his broad-based Coalition has received since being elected to Government in November 2008.”
     
     
    • ianmac 14.1

      21 February 2012 at 11:06 pm

      Thanks TRP. Pity that they didn’t survey Leader popularity.

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